An Army of Normal Folks - Jon Ponder: Hope for Prisoners (Pt 2)

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

After 26 years of crime, Jon ironically found hope in prison and committed his life to helping other returning citizens live at levels that they had never dreamed about. His Hope for Prisoners has had over 4,700 clients and boasts a recidivism rate of only 8%, which is over 8 times better than the national average. Most extraordinary is that they've recruited 135 Las Vegas law enforcement officers to mentor returning citizens, which has never been done at this scale before.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/support-1See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, it's Bill Courtney with an Army and Normal folks again. Let's continue with part two of our conversation with John Ponder right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. An old Bentley, the Cavalry. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive

than a talking dog, exactly. But if you apply now at Crocodotles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps, whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders

and could be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and can be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, Jess asked Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities? Plus, we have a three year health guarantee.

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University Different. University Better. How long have that six and a half years did you spend in that jail? Oh, it was, I did the whole, uh, yeah. Oh, there's no only reason. No, no, you, well, you got to get 85% of your time, but whatever, whatever that worked out to be. But it was five, six years, one month. Yeah. And so that's, that's hard time.

Oh, yeah. It's federal time. Oh, yeah. And so, Oh yeah. It's federal time. Oh yeah. And so, John, I'm a, I look, man, I'm a, I like to understand people. It's, it's, I found it fascinating. I found people fascinating. Right. I found my own children fascinating. Actually, I found on children of the pain of the butt most time, but also fascinating. John, you have a whole life of crime. You have a whole life of game-banging.

You've told me that you were an addict, which makes you, frankly, a normal person. And it is an amazing story about how you found your faith, and God found you, and you found your father. But you know, almost everybody on their deathbed finds religion. And then when you don't die, the religion tends to wane and those people. And so I'm here in your story and my question is, you did six years in the federal penitentiary and in the federal penitentiary, if any of the stories I've been told by people who've done time are true, the gangsters

ramp it inside the jealous they're out, the drugs are ramp it inside the jealous out. The crime is this ramp it inside the jealous out. Right. The abuse is this ramp it inside the jealous out. And yeah, you've made the deal. Right. But you're still the guy that's spent his whole life in this world. How, how did you, I get, I get, I get, I get God led you there. Right, right. But the real human of this, you had to have had the grip hadn't turned elusive yet. There's no way it just complete. Right. You had to have felt pulled at times. Sure. Right. You know, I think that just like anything in life, when people are looking

to change, right? The biggest battle that we have is fighting the gravitational pull back into that life that you're trying to get. What I'm asking, yet six years in the pin. Absolutely. But and listen, for me, when I went to the pin, in my mind, and I remember even the day that I was pulling up into USB, Aluwood and Pennsylvania, right? The big doors opened up, and it was a bus there, dogs underneath the bus.

Got me scared. When that, oh my gosh, it was scared to death. I was 100% scared to death. This, you know, even a tough, strict kid fight, tough, yeah, and everybody's got this hard, but you had no idea. I was 100% scared to death. And when that second door opened up and I looked

and I saw that big gigantic seal that said, you know, maximum security, 90 states, federal penitentiary, Alan Wood, that's when the fear really kicked in. But I set on that bus and I looked up at that sign and I remember the commitment I made to God. And in my mind, I changed the words on that sign. And it said, Alan Wood,

United States Federal Learning Institution. That's awesome. It was a Bible college for me, right? In my mind, that bus chugged a federal pen into a Bible college. And that bus chugged forward and listened, I went in there and in here and in here, I went to school. In your head and your heart. And my head, my heart was all the other stupid stuff happened.

The stuff I was involved with before. Was it happened all around me all day long? But I knew I had to stay maniac. You focus on number one, getting to know better this God that I just surrendered my life to. And I'll tell you, this is past his description. I'm going to paraphrase when Paul and Silas, in the book of Acts, they were arrested and they were put in prison, right? And the Philippians, Jaila, had them housed.

They were down in the basement and they were chained. And they said that Paul and Silas was singing and worshiping. And they said they were singing and worshiping. And middle night, the walls came down. The chains fell off of them, right? But they kept singing and worshiping and they said they were singing and worshiping in middle of the night the walls came down. The chains fell off of them, right? But they kept singing and worshiping, right? So the question is, is that they were in prison and they're chained and bound in the dungeon of this prison. And the walls fell down. The chains came off and the Philippian Jaila was about to kill himself and they were like, no, wait, don't do that.

We're right here because he thought they escaped on his watch. Right. So the reason why Paul and Silas, that's the question, why didn't they get up and leave? Why didn't they get him a run? And they answer lies and the reason why they did not get up and run because Paul and Silas in here was already set free and their heart and their soul.

So they had their own liberty inside them. Right. So many years ago, while I was in prison, you had liberty. Oh my gosh. I was already set free behind 50 foot walls. So you had hope. So because you had that liberty, you had your own.

Absolutely. And it didn't matter. My hope didn't come. The day did I walked out that back door. That liberty came for me. The day did I surrender my life to Jesus. You know, there's another thing that just popped in my head hearing you is that Nelson Mandela, when spending 27 years in jail in South Africa, and never giving up and then

becoming president of the country. Yeah, phenomenal. And what was most phenomenal when he came out is he said, we are not going to punish or penalize those who punished and penalized me. And when asked why he could do that, he said it was because he made his body had always been locked up, but he was always free. Yes. He was free in his heart, my.

Right. And I hear you say that. And I think of that now, some endella story. So you're free. But you, but let's be honest, you figured that out. The vast majority of the two million people incarcerated are free. Right. Don't feel that freedom.

Right. So how do you start hope for prison? Right. So you start. So what? It's come from. Right. Well, I tell people that hope for prison was a vision that God impregnated me with when I

was in prison and I came home to give birth to it. Right. Invest in every week and moment of my time while I'm in prison or learning all those things that you want. So you're setting up the infrastructure of it in your mind in prison. You're fundamentally getting the nuts of bolts. Absolutely, the jowlings of it.

I got zero money. I don't know what I'm doing. I didn't have the background experience and so forth and so on. All I know that that's it. Did you think about Robin or back to start. I'm just kidding.

I guess that would have been a fruit of life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just had to one or two percent depend on. Yeah. I know that if God gave me this vision, he's going to give me the provoked the provoked vision. That's right. So yeah, obviously.

Yeah. So you're here. You got you spent six years building it. Right. You got your own freedom, you got your own hope. I get all that. But you get to Vegas and you got this great idea, but you're not funded.

No. And frankly, if I'm somebody that has the authority and or the funds to help you, you know, there's a lot of people that come out of prison that say they're gonna do something. Oh, absolutely. And so how in the world am I gonna, why am I gonna choose to back you

versus a thousand other people that have dreamed up ways to live now that the recidivision rate says are very unlikely to follow through. How did you get it done, John? You know, I think that I did it, it got done with a lot of prayer, right? And it was this. And this is a saying that I live by in my life, right?

I'm not going to sit there and tell you what I'm going to do. Because people, I'm going, I'm going, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to let my action speak so loudly that you can barely hear what I'm saying. And even when I was moving forward and the world around me was slamming doors in my face, I couldn't get in the battle department of correction on the road, the role of probation,

funders, and do that. That's what I'm saying. I can't imagine anybody would even listen. Right, exactly. But what I had to always do when the world around me was telling me, no, I had to hold on to that, yes, God gave me behind 50 foot walls

that this is going to happen. You keep digging the trenches and I'll be the provider. And it just, you know, 2000, 2000, in 2010, 2011, we hit the ground and never look back. We'll be right back. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini Golden Doodle from Crocodoodles. We'll be right back. You could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or buy your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and could be delivered anywhere in

the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, just ask Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooperies quite right, are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities? Plus, we have a three year health guarantee. So, check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around via weuda, with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole. One pup at a time. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to Hair Free Skin all year long.

Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Rolly Durham locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair free skin with permanent results for all skin tones. So you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again. They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results. And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase,

you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing. Give Milan Laser Recall at 833-No-Razor to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out nevershaveagain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's nevershaveagain.com. to schedule your free treatment and consultation.

Are you a busy entrepreneur or a small business owner who wants to ensure your company stays compliant with state regulations? Look no further than Universal Registered Agents, the trusted choice for thousands of businesses nationwide, offering comprehensive corporate services from registered agent services to new entity formation and document violence. URA has you covered, with our experience team and state-of-the-art technology, URA guarantees prompt delivery and secure handling of your important documents.

With 24-7 portal access to your documents and legal notices, you can stay connected and never worry about missing important information. From start-up to established businesses, our transparent and affordable pricing ensures that you receive high-quality services at a fair price. Don't stress over compliance when you are a can handle it for you. Contact us today.

Visit our website at uragents.com, Universal Registered Agents, universally different, universally better. Universal Registered Agents, universally different, universally better. Hope for prisoners has helped nearly 3500 returning citizens reintegrate back into society. And they've done it successfully. As we mentioned earlier, they only have an 8% recidivism rate. Their rich programming and rich love inspires real hope for folks who really haven't had a lot of hope in their life.

The participants first enter what they call a pre-vocational training program, which includes courses on soft and hard skills for employment readiness and success in life like public speaking, leadership, emotional intelligence, and things as simple as just how to operate email. They're also matched up with a group of mentors for the long term, who walk alongside them throughout life, and continually provide reference points for what a healthy and productive life looks like, something that a lot of these folks have never had before. And then there's a third element, the element that I think is the magic to the whole program, and I couldn't really wait to talk to John about it.

Law enforcement officers are mentors. The very people who once locked them up are now leading their training and their mentoring and get this. The law enforcement officers, the police, the FBI, the people involved in the program are not being ordered to do it. They're not on the clock, they're not getting paid to do it. They actually are volunteering to mentor these folks because they simply care. Again, everything is birth and prayer. You know, I had the vision of being able to do that because the FBI agent that was on my case, he's my dear friend to this day.

Which is insane, yeah. And he came alongside me when I first came home from prison and we developed this friendship. Did you call him? Oh, I think he reached out to me. The man that arrested you for that grand trip. The FBI agent. He reached out to you when he came back.

Yep, yep, yep, absolutely. Why? When I was at the Federal Halfhouse, if Appuihousen Vegas, I'm here for like two days and all of a sudden I get called up front. And then the FBI agent, I come up front, the FBI agent's there and he was like, hey, John, how you doing? Welcome home. And then he leaned into me and he said to me, yeah, I just want to let you know my wife

and I have been praying for you since you, and right then that moment, John, are you kidding me? I can't make this up. The man that arrested you. Absolutely. And your buddies now. And he's my, with buddies.

Oh, why did he do that, John? I, you know, I, because I think that and I had no idea at the time when he took me into custody, custody, that he was a Christian. I had no idea. Well, you wouldn't have cared. Absolutely, but you know, there's another passage of scripture in that in Colossus 1 13, it says that he plucks you out of the kingdom of darkness and conveys you into the kingdom of the son of his love. I believe God used FBI agent Richie Beasley to pluck me out of the kingdom of darkness.

He saved my life and put me on this trajectory through who I am today. So again, him being a law enforcement officer and me but appreciate those friendships. I just was saying, man, how could we do this same thing with other law enforcement? In other words, the impact he had on your life. Yes, yes. I know what that meant to me as a felon.

I need other felons to see that law enforcement is really not bad. Absolutely. And so he helped you with that. He started some of it and then we started And then we started getting connected with other law enforcement agents. There was a, you know, with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, it was then a captain named Kevin MacMail, who's now our income and sheriff. He and I was talking and this thing has just grown into, I mean,

we started out with just six police officers now. We have 135 police officers. Hold on, just stop. 135 police officers in the Las Vegas metro area. Yes. Never before in the history of reentry, nowhere on this planet to this magnitude has law enforcement got this engaged in mentoring and training people coming on from the prison system. So when you have conversations with them and it's very methodical, right? You just gotta get people

to change their way of thinking. And if you look across this country, right? Especially what happened in the summer 2020, you know, it disrupts in the community. People don't trust police. They just don't trust them. But the reason why they don't trust police is because they're not in a relationship with the police. And what relationship could you ever establish trust unless there's life running up against life in the spirit of complete transparency? That we have more in common than we have differences. So big eye, no big deal, or use. And out of that transparency, that comes the relationship. And once that relationship is established, we can start

working on trust. Do you think there's, this is my own and this just my own feeling Do you think there's a danger in People not understanding the humanity of the police in other words when you think the police You think of the structure and the institution of the police Rather than the human being that just happens to be a policeman. That's where I think that we need to do a better job at changing that institution. That it's a cultural change that needs to take place on both sides of the equation.

If you look at the police offices that are there to protect and to serve, If you look at the police officers that they're to protect them to serve, right? Could we look at the police officers there in full uniform? It's that cognitive shift that I look at that person, but I see behind the badge, of course you're in full uniform, right? But I see behind the badge to the to the wives and husbands and moms and dads. This is in brothers and low league football coaches. And right, you see the human side of them. And again, you get to see the human side of it. By what's happening here within

our organization, it's the life rubbed up against life and have stories that people begin to view in their perceptions, begin to change. So how does John Ponder the citizen? John Ponder, just the citizen, just the member of this society. How do you feel? What goes on in your heart and head, what you've talked about a lot. What goes on in your heart and head when you know how and how vital all of the police officers are in your program that has changed lives in the city. What happens in your heart and head when you hear a national narrative that we need to defile these people? My gosh, my heart breaks. It really

is heartbreaking, right? And I was on a radio show one time, it's going back a couple of years ago, and it was right after something happened, it was an office involved shooting, killed an unknown black person, whatever it case would be. And on this radio show, the host that said to me, how could you support law enforcement? You have an African American man,

and that's just, it was just, right, so it? You have an African American man and right this It was just right so it's an African American dude, right? We'll see this is what this is why I'm trying to tie together. It's your an African American dude you grew up in in Brooklyn Mm-hmm. Yeah, and and you you were in and out of jail through 36 40 years old. Yeah You're the grandson of a share copper and the great-grandson of a slave and have dealt with all of the institutional racism that this country has

offered. And that's for another show, but I think we could talk a lot about that, but clearly the path that your life has taken and your heritage, you're supposed to not like the police John. That's what the society tells us, that you're supposed to be not liking the police. So as that man, to hear you say it breaks your heart hearing about the defund the police

movement but then there are unarmed people that get killed by the police. John, how do we? John, help me really help me and help our listeners. How do we balance it, John? Because we know we need the police. We don't want people to be unmercifully shot or treated bad. We've seen the videos and get sensationalized on TV. I think in our mind, we know that 99.9% of the people who wear a bad, you're good people. But how do we balance it all, John?

Right. And from your perspective, how do you balance it? Mm-hmm. And do you get caught a sell out being a black dude and speaking out against it? I mean, how do you balance it? And do you get called a sellout being a black dude and speaking out against it? I mean, how do you balance it all? It's the one question I couldn't wait to get to is how do we balance it? Because it's killing us right now as a society. I think that the way that I approach it is this, right? Have you ever thought about how close the word enemy comes to the inner me?

And I spent the lifetime fighting enemies on the outside until I took a look at the enemies that will land on the inner me. And once I conquered the enemies on the enemy, the enemy is only outside disappearing. Police officers are not my enemies. As an African-American man, I love and respect and appreciate them being out in the community. Do some people do some things? Now you got some, maybe not so good people out there? Absolutely, right?

This reporter that was interviewing one time and he tried to push me out there on that and how can I support and everything like that. And he was just going on this little tangent and what I said to him, I asked him if he was married and he said he was married. And I asked him that, you know, do you consider yourself a good husband?

And he said, yeah, I'm a good husband. And I said that, you know, you consider yourself a good husband. And he said, yeah, I'm a good husband. And I said that, you know, I'm married to him and I like to consider myself a good husband. And I know a lot of men that are married and they're good husbands and love their wives and they honor them and respect them. And I said that there are some men out there who are not good husbands who beat their wives and don't give them the love, the honor, respect that they need to give them, right? But I said to him, do not lump me in with those bad husbands.

Right. Don't lump me in there, right? Because I'm a good husband. But you cannot lump the rest of the good cops are out there putting their life on the line for some people that made a back-haul back judgment call of your date. They messed up, or whatever the case would be. But you can't lump everybody up in there.

Right. And you see that. Absolutely. We'll be right back. Hi, my name is Cooper, and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And on Bentley, the Cavalry. Now I know what you're thinking. Talking dogs?

Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly. But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and could be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, just ask Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooperie's quite right.

Are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities? Plus, we have a three-year health guarantee. So, check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around via Uda, with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole. One pup at a time. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to Hair Free Skin all year long.

Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Rolly Turum locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair free skin with permanent results for all skin tones. So you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again. They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results. And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase, you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions

before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing. Give Milan Laser Recall at 833-No-Razor to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out NeverShaveAgain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's NeverShaveAgain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's NeverShaveAgain.com. Are you a busy entrepreneur or a small business owner who wants to ensure your company stays compliant with state regulations? Look no further than Universal Registered Agents. The trusted choice for thousands of businesses nationwide, offering comprehensive corporate

services from registered agent services to new entity formation and document violence. URA has you covered. With our experience team and state-of-the-art technology, URA guarantees prompt delivery and secure handling of your important documents. With 24-7 portal access to your documents and legal notices, you can stay connected and never worry about missing important information. From start-up to established businesses, our transparent and affordable pricing

ensures that you receive high quality services at a fair price. Don't stress over compliance when you are a can handle it for you. Contact us today, visit our website at uragents.com, universal registered agents, universally different, universally better. Registered Agents, universally different, universally better.

And so I came to visit you today in your offices, which is very cool. And before we got to sit down and have our discussion today, I was in a room that had 50 or 60 people in it. And along the wall of one half of the room were parole officers. It looked like Las Vegas Metro cops and maybe sheriffs looked like undercover guy or two. It looked like there was a rabbi in there that had a badge on, which was something foreign to me, but he was awesome.

And then the other half the room was a whole bunch of guys. Ladies, men and women who were on parole, work release, were fresh out of jail. Yes. And I watched them all hug, and I watched them all eat. And I watched people who'd been arrested by people in those uniforms, hugging them and frankly those people in those uniforms have to deal with some pretty

nasty people every day and those people represent the nasty people they have to deal with some of which have tried to hurt them in the past and I watched them hug them back and I'm watching this room full of people that you've assembled that are supporting one another and it was this weird, beautiful odd arrangement. So tell me what that meeting was. Tell me what was happening. Sure. So as we're working with the formerly incarcerated people that have helped them come home and help them successfully re-intrate back in their home, the workplace, and the community. We want to wrap services around them. So not only the leadership training and vocational training, we want to make sure that we can set

them up to be successful as they re-integrate back into the community. So in this part, which a lot of people do in this country, but the law enforcement part is what's so unique. Man, it is critical. And I wish the people would be able to get that because if you think about it, let me tell you why that's so important. If we're going to get men and women

to return back to the community and be successful members of the community, we're going to get them to a place where they will never reoffend again. And all the fours would be able to do that. We have to instill in them a love or respect or appreciation for the rules and regulations out in the land. Right.

We found that something incredible happened when we bought them in relationship with those who uphold in the law. They respect it more. They have a tendency to not, you know, Swayv, it's not no us against them, right? You're in relationship, right? And it was very powerful, but think about this. If you flip the coin around the other side, the thing that makes me smile is that this level of partnership is forcing

law enforcement to do the things that they talked about for years. Immunity, engagement, and serving serve. You don't know how many instances we had here where there's an officer who 16, 17 years ago he was the gang task force hooking and booking people right but they've been on the force you know 17, 18 years now and that means I've seen it all. Oh and they're at all and they're the captains of the gang unit and now all of a sudden that walks through the door The person they locked up 17 years ago come through the door and listen today their best friends Just like you and the FBI just like the FBI agent and their best friends to this day They do not go back to jail now as we do say praise God. That's right That's right

My brother. Yes. That is hope for us. Yes. Yes. It is an amazing story now. It works. But there's only one John Ponder. How can we mimic this? How does this country do this elsewhere?

And if there's people, listen, John, one of the things that this podcast is for is, we talk about a lot of different stuff that people do, from holding babies to, you're doing, and our hope is that they see that John ponders, just a normal guy, got in a little trouble, who's done something extraordinary,

just like all the people we talked to. Right. And you're just a normal guy who's done extraordinary things. And my goal is to create an army of normal folks that do extraordinary things across our country. So if someone is listening to us and says, man, I identify with that. How do we start, how do we do a hope for prisoners

in Birmingham, Milwaukee, Denver, Phoenix? Right, how's it work? Love it, love it, love it. I get excited at the opportunity. We did export our model to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Have a conversation with them. How we did it. Got all the stakeholders on board.

But then what we have to identify, we have to identify a John Ponder in that area. Right. There are, and I say it very humbly, there are John Ponder's all over this country. That's because it's an army of normal folks, but I'm not afraid. So you identify those people,

pour your DNA into them and just work with them and train them and equip them in laws We stood Milwaukee up is doing phenomenal so we can launch this anywhere Absolutely with an army of normal folks, and I think that as we're going across the country, right? Again, the idea is to change the landscape of reentry Somebody asked me a long time ago when we've first up put no prison together and they say well Why are you calling it hope for prison is when the people that you work with, they've got not a prison.

They said, you don't want to put the word prisoners in there because it's got this negative condition, right? And people don't want to give you money and things like that. And they said, well, why do you want to name it hope for prisons? This is what I said to them was that the number one reason I'm naming it over prison is God told me to

appear it it right? What a person right got it. That was in the Pennsylvania Absolutely, Bible college absolutely. You made that deal. You changed it right and I said the other reason why I'm naming it over brisns because the mission of our organization is to help to create a massive amount of people to create a massive amount of people who come home from the prison system and not only do they never re-offend again, that they begin to live levels of life that most people on their dream of. When we do that, then they become the hope for the prisoners. That's a beautiful thing, brother. Last thing, if somebody wants to talk to you and say,

hey, I want to try to do this in my town, what is the website? How do they reach out? How do people reach into John Ponder's Las Vegas world and find out more? Right. They can visit our website at hope4isfllrprisoners.org or you can certainly call our office at 7025861371.

But if you want to shoot me an email, you can certainly email me at J-O-N-P. So it's John P. At hope4fllrprisoners.org. Love to be able to have a conversation with you. John Ponder, I haven't done this shit, but I think I'm gonna make an officer in the army of normal folks.

Oh, my goodness, I'm in. So far we've done profits and corporals, but my friend, you're a copy. Yeah. It has truly been an honor and a pleasure spent time with you today. Well, awesome. It is my honor.

Thank you guys so much for the opportunity. Okay, buddy. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, buddy. Yeah. Thank you. Guys, to join the Army of Normal Folks, go to NormalFolks.us.

That's right. NormalFolks.us. And sign up to become a member of the movement. I genuinely hope you'll join us. It only takes committing to doing one new thing this year to help another person. And there will be tons of awesome ideas on this podcast from the folks we're featuring. Some of them may resonate with you deeply and others may not at all and that's okay, because we're all called to do different things with the different talents we've been blessed

with. But together, with each of us doing what we can, we generally can change this country. We'd love to hear what you do. And if there's stories you've heard of that you think we must tell, write me anytime at billatnormalfokes.us. As you've heard, everyone we're featuring

and myself included are sharing our direct contact information. We're generally hoping to build a real community. It's not just a show. We want to build a community that's unlike anything America's ever seen. And if you enjoyed this episode, rate it and review it and share it with friends on social. All these things that will help us grow an army of normal folks.

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