An Army of Normal Folks - Man's Searching for Meaning

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

For Shop Talk, we dive into Victor Frankl's monumental book, which he wrote in just 9 days after being liberated from a Nazi concentration camp! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney. Alex just walked in the shop. What's up? It's cold. It's getting cold outside. It's cold. It was like 29 degrees. I bought firewood, and Lisa has kind of allergy. She's really highly allergic to stuff. We've got to give her shots every weekend. We've got to give her shots. You're talking about her like she's an animal? No, I give her shots every week. You got to do it yourself? I give it to her. like you stick a shot in her two shots every week oh gosh i hate medical stuff like that oh do you

yeah do you have uh vaso vagal i'm not really before but baso bagel's like you get quellish and you not to sit down when needles go in you and stuff yeah yeah that's called a vaso vaguer response it's a real thing on the podcast i was afraid of needles that's why i never gave blood but john norman kind of pushed me to do it you less and so yeah it's good but still i don't want to do it to lisa every week Anyway, because Lisa, so I love, we both love cozy fires of the fireplace. Yeah. Natural fires, no, like, ceramic walls. Well, you got a nice one in your living room, right?

Yeah, but here's the thing. If the firewood's a little damp or whatever, the smell it puts off, it makes her sick. So. No damp wood. Well, I haven't known a lumber company, so last month I got two cords of firewood and actually killed rot it. Nice. So now it's not.

Yeah. So now we get, anyway, I spent all week and unloaded it. And you have to pay classic for the use of the facilities? I probably should have, but I did not. And anyway, now we've got killed dried firewood that I'm building, Lisa and I talked about this morning. I'm building our first fire in the fireplace tonight, and I cannot wait. I'm going to have a glass of red wine, sit in my comfy chair with my wife next to the fire and just veg.

That sounds pretty nice, yeah. I can't wait. I really, that's like. I don't know. I guess that's what old people get excited about, but I'm pretty excited about. You would just need a Manhattan and be perfect for you. It would be perfect, but I'm not going to make a Manhattan. I'll just have a lease up a bottle of wine somewhere.

So anyway, that's what we're doing tonight. And you're right, all on the heels of a simple comment. It's cold outside. That's good. But for us, we could talk about absolutely anything. Yeah, that's right. It was Shop Talk. We're in the shop.

So that's it. All right, today, guys, we're going to talk about Victor Frankl's book, Man Search for Meeting. There's a summary about his life and his book called Man Search for Meaning. It's from a blog called Mind for Life, and the post is titled The Power of Choice, Freedom Over Circumstances. Alex, as usual, has prepped up something that'll make us think for shop talk, and we'll dive in right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors.

I'm Ibel Ongoria, and I'm Maite Gomez-Guan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the. the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon.

And because we've got a very My Casa is Su Casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stopped by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the Gulf of Mexico. Continuan as being so forever and ever.

It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the buildup and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely but lucky people who are sure. saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become, and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding.

Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very very first. first time. The big short story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at Pushkin.fm. slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold. Lama is a spirit. It's not just a city. I didn't really have an interest of being on air.

I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building. It's where Kronk was born in a club in the West End. Four World Star, it was 559. Where a tiny bar birthed a generation of rap stars, where preachers go viral, and students at the HBCU turned heartbreak into resurrection. How do you get people to believe in something that's dead? Where dream was brought Hollywood to the South,

and hustlers bring their visions to create black wealth. Nobody's rushing into relationships with you. Where are you from? They want to look in the eye. Where the future is nostalgia. I'm talking to chat at GPZ. She's like, you really the first lady to have a gayful girl's tape in Atlanta, Georgia. Like, that's what separates you from a lot of people.

And I'm like, oh, what, you're right. Atlanta doesn't wait for permission. It builds its own spotlight. Um, Big Rube. Let us guide you through the stories behind Atlanta's most iconic moments. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. It's okay not to be okay sometimes.

be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him.

Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog and i ended up inviting them over for food and that was like one of my proudest moments this is family therapy real families real stories on a journey to heal together listen to season two of family therapy every wednesday on the black effect podcast network i heart radio app apple

podcast or wherever you get your podcasts welcome fellow seekers of the dark i'm danny trejo Won't you join me in Nocturno? Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. And experience the horrors

that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for nocturnal Tales from the Shadows Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura

Podcast Network, available on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back. Welcome back, Bill. Thanks.

You're doing all right. How's things in your world? I mean, I can't talk about it all on the air, but I can tell you some after. You can talk about some of it if you want to. No. No, not appropriate. Alex's bailed the life, I assume. Hey, I think we're going to take the kids, though, to your playoff game on Friday, so that's exciting.

What are you going to do? Bill's teams in the playoffs. They keep winning. Yeah. I think I told you this over the phone last. That's right. I'm going to bring the kids on Friday. You need to text Lisa.

I will. Because she often is there by herself or just with Pee Pee Pee Pee Pee Pee Pee, my father-in-law. People, everybody calls Pee-P-Ball. That's what the kids call them. But anyway, if you text her and tell her you're coming and bringing the kids, she'll be excited. Yeah, it would be awesome. We're playing a really good team, too. Oh, yeah.

So you're not sure. I've spent all weekend breaking down film. And, I mean, put together a really good game. plan but they're good football team they're well coached got a lot of athletes so it'll be it'll be that's how much this guy cares all weekend breaking down film none of his kids are on the team running a company and doing an army and what i do i love it all right here we go again i'm going to read you a a summary of victor frankle's life and his book man's search for meaning is Bill has not read yet, and he needs to.

No, actually, you asked me off air, I know I have this book. Somebody else told me I had to read it. I bought the book and, like, everything else, good intentions, and not enough time, effort, energy, and I'm sure I forgot about it. But now I'm going to go dig it off my shelf and read it because... In front of the fire. All right, let's go. You're shaming me.

All right. So, this thing is from a blog called Mind for Life, and the post is titled The Power of Choice, Freedom Over Circumstances, which, what a title. I love that. So here we go. How important is the power of choice? In 1942, the director of the Neurological Department of the Ross Child Hospital in Vienna and his wife were forced by the Nazis to abort their child. Holy crap, this is terrible.

Why am I reading this? The first line makes me want to get sick to my stomach. They were forced to abort their child by the Nazis. Wow. Soon afterward, the couple was arrested, along with the husband's parents, and were deported to the... Oh, really? They reported to a ghetto north of Prague, and it's spelled T-H-E-R-E-S-I-E-N-S-T-A-D-T. I'm going to call it the Arresten-Stat, Ghetto, North of Prague.

Within six months, this gentleman's father succumbed to exhaustion and died. In 1944, Victor Frankel, his wife Tilly, and Frankl's 65-year-old mother, were transported to the death camp at Auschwitz. His mother was immediately exterminated in the gas chamber, and his young wife was moved to Bergen-Belsen, where she died at the age of 24. In 1945, suffering from typhoid fever, Victor was finally. freed when the U.S. forces liberated the camp on April 27. It wasn't until August of that same year on returning to Vienna that he found out about his wife, his mother, and his brother, who were also murdered at Auschwitz. Can I just pause before we keep going?

I know this is setting up how this guy overcame it, but when you read that, does that not just break your heart? Yeah. I mean, I know we're, I guess we should never get numb to the atrocities of German Naziism. I can actually pull up a stat while we're talking about Auschwitz that will shock you a little bit too, but keep going. Okay. Through these experiences, Victor Frankel developed his theories on logotherapy, otherwise known as the third V&E School of Psychology.

Logotherapy is a quest to unlock the will to meaning in life. It is searched to find purpose in the chaotic circumstances of the world. Logo means meaning in Greek. Meaning? Mm-hmm. Got it. While confined in the death camps of Nazi Germany, Frankel noticed that those around him who did not lose their sense of purpose and meaning

were able to survive much longer than those who had lost hope. from those thoughts he wrote his famous book man's search for meaning here he gives us insight into a more fulfilled and meaningful life frank will recognize the importance of our power to choose more specifically he understood how free we are to choose our own attitudes about our lives considering all the things he had undergone in his life this quote is a phenomenal example of his point everything can be taken from a man but one thing, the last of human freedoms, to choose one's attitude in a given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way. Even though we're all subject to circumstances are in our lives, we are free to choose,

to choose the way that we think about these circumstances, to choose also how we respond to them. I dare say that a few of us will undergo the horrors that Victor experienced in the death camps, Yet, in the midst of that situation, he realized his true freedom, the power to choose his attitude. In fact, he said that though the Nazis could take everything from them, they could not take away this. His power to choose his response to them. We all suffer injustices to one degree or another, though some of these has greater cost. Our hurt and helplessness remain the same. Comparing our circumstances to others is dangerous.

Because regardless of the situations, we all have similar feelings. Our choice and our response to those circumstances is what matters. How we think about them and how we act on them. Frankel said this in talking about the power of choice. In concentration camps, we watched and witnessed some of our comrades behave like swine, while others behave like saints. Man has both potentialities within himself. After all, man is the being who has invented the gas chambers of Auschwitz.

However, he is also that being who has entered those gas chambers upright with the Lord's prayers of the Shema Israel on his lips. To think that both potentialities are available to us, good or evil, is a sobering thought. We find a similar sentiment in the worlds of Old Testament books of Deuteronomy. Today, I have given you the choice between life and death. between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make.

Oh, that you would choose life so that you and your descendants might live. Some people believe in determinism, which takes away our choice. This fatalistic perspective places us at the mercy of things in life that happened to us. But as Frankel noted, our beliefs about this type of perspective matter,

if we accept fatalism that our circumstances find us we are forever held captive to them but we can choose to believe that we have the freedom to do just that to choose this is our true freedom frankl sums it up when we are no longer able to change a situation we are challenged to change ourselves wow I learned too he wrote that man searched for meeting nine days after he was freed from Auschwitz really is that amazing It is amazing. And by the way, I'm taking this with me because I'm about to read this to our football team. That's awesome.

Yeah. We can choose to rise above our circumstances or choose to be victims of it. One of the things, when I talk to, when I was speeches and high schools and things like that, you know, I still do. a fair amount of those. Interestingly, there's a part in there that I make the point that, you know, we have health insurance, we have life insurance, we have car insurance, we have security cameras, we have security systems in our house, we have all of these things that when we wake up and take on the day make us feel so happy and secure.

and it's all false. It's really a crock. The police department, the fire department, the police department shows up after you've been shot. The fire department shows up when your house is on fire. You don't have enough time to get there as fast as you need. That's it. And the point is you can have all the insurance of the world, the police department, fire department, everything else.

But the truth is, today your house can burn down. And nothing you can do about it. Today, somebody can break in and steal your jewelry. Today, the economic world could collapse and somebody could have a run on the banks and you could end up with no money. That literally could have. Today, your 401k and your investments,

the stock market could collapse and it could all go away. Today, as horrific as it is to think about, somebody that you love could be in a horrific car wreck and die or somebody could murder your wife or children. There could be a school shooting that your family's involved. And I mean, it's horrible to think of, but the world has evil all in it.

And all of the things that you think ensure you that make you comfortable, that you think you're a secure end today, something could happen to make all of that go away. We'll be right back. It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope.

What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him. Because he's feeding himself well, it's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog

and I ended up inviting them over for food and that was like one of my proudest moments. This is Family Therapy. Real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. Listen to season two of family therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm dead. Don't you join me in Nocturno, Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. And experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the the beginning of time.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the buildup

Ben Burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy

Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at Pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold. I'm I Belongoria and I'm Maite Gomes Rajan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History,

we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells and they called those Ostercon to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word, oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very My Casa is Su Casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the America.

The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be it forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor. They had labor. labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Elam is a spirit. It's not just a city. I didn't really have an interest of being on air.

I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building. It's where Crunk was born in a club in the West End. star for a while. It was $5.59. Where a tiny bar birthed the generation of rap stars, where preachers go viral, and students at the HBCU turned heartbreak into resurrection. How do you get people to believe in something that's dead? Where dreamers brought Hollywood to the south, and hustlers bring their visions to create black wealth. Nobody's rushing into relationships with you. Where are you from? They want to look in the eye. Where the future is nostalgia. Talk to the chat, GPT. She's like, you really the first lady to have a gayful girl's tape in Atlanta, Georgia.

Like, that's what separates you from a lot of people. And I'm like, oh, what, you're right. Atlanta doesn't wait for permission. It builds its own spotlight. I'm big rude. Let us guide you through the stories behind Atlanta's most iconic moments. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

So when you come to terms of the fact that really you don't have control over any of that stuff, then you start to really think about what you do have control over. And it's your word. It's your responses. It's how you carry yourself. That's the only thing someone can't reach inside of you and take out of you is your your character, your word, and your choice. And it's, I really do.

I say that to a lot of young people trying to convince them what's really important in the world. And it's interesting that in that blog summary that Frankl said, the Nazis took everything from them. They took his wife, his family. He had typhoid fever, and he, like many other persecuted Jews, they took everything but he said the one thing they couldn't take from him was his choice and when you

think about that and when the world hits us in the mouth with a bad day at work or our kids drive us crazy or something else and and again it's that in there it's it's not not healthy to compare people's suffering so i i don't mean to do it that way but the point is if you think about him and his ability to choose, whatever happens this week that drags us down, I think it's really thoughtful and helpful to remember that really the desperation of those events largely depend on how we choose to respond to them. And our response can be really convicting to other people in those moments. That's a really good point. You can be a beacon of light and hope. in someone else's darkness by illustrating a choice of response i mean when you were reading this i

was thinking about christ on the crossing forgive them father for they don't know what they do yeah i mean it's how we choose to what's that oh so the when you're talking about security it reminded me this great quote from helen keller she said security is mostly a superstition it does not exist in nature nor do the children of men as a whole experience it avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all. Who wrote that? Ellen Keller.

Is that great? She's a bad. Yeah, I wish I had her on my football team. I'd take people like that. Go visit her home in Alabama. I don't know if you've done it. I know, you've told me. I'm going.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is a great shop talk. It's just as a reminder that we're all going to be hit in the mouth. we're all going to have problems. And you don't want to compare them because one, you know, there's levels, obviously, but how it feels to you is very, very personal. But it's really not about that. We should expect problems to come. But what we have to do is understand we have the freedom to choose a response to that.

And that's liberating in the face of difficulty. And like you said, serves as a beautiful, illustration to uplift others who are also dealing with issues because we all are dealing with them all right something negative 66% of u.s. millennials do not know what oshwoods is what and 48% cannot name a single nazi concentration camper ghetto are you kidding me i'm not kidding you how is that possible and then one of the most surprising results the survey found to is nearly 20% of millennials in gen z in new york feel that the jews caused the holocaust And I got to tell you, I actually met someone this week.

How was that possible? Our education system. Two-thirds of kids are not on grade level in America. We got a lot of problems. What were you about to say? I'm sorry. Oh, I met somebody this weekend. This was like, it's actually like affected me in a negative way.

So they're in, you know, Mississippi. I meet this person. And she kept talking about black people as, um, is like, you know, they're not, you know, they're not worth anything good. They just cause problems. And I'm like, why are you talking about them as a group like? that like these are individuals and the data doesn't even show that there's great data um one of my mentors brad willcox he's like the leading marriage expert and i forget the exact data but it's it's something like you know 56% or 65% of black men are married and have a job right so it's even

just like this misconception out there that there's just like this big swath of people is the title of this article is most black men are doing just fine right so it's like why are we categorizing all these people what was this racist woman talking about but she's like that's just how we grew up in mississippi and that's just you know how we but i'm saying it's it was shocking to me to like hear somebody verbalize this you know to me like a wealthy affluent person in mississippi saying this to me and i'm like i hope you got in her grill a little bit oh yeah that a boy but i'm saying it's just like you know this stats too 20% of millennials in new york feel like the jews caused the holocaust like it is shocking how much of this you know racism it's still out there yeah

it's patent ignorance yeah that makes me want to throw up but in good news it's the only time i've actually experienced that in mississippi so to be fair with all the negative yeah let's not hammer mississippi then we end up being what we're detesting i've been there for a decade and that's the only honestly conversation i've had like that so it's just incredible to me that people exist in today's world but actually think that way but here's the thing um how do we choose to respond to that. How do we choose to respond to that blatant racism? Well, I told her actually Bill Donovan's data, which is fascinating. I was telling you about going to his presentation. Yeah. That in Memphis, 80% of the crime is committed by 20% of the perpetrators. And that number,

that 20% is only 1,800 people. So you have 1,000 people terrorizing a 1.3 million person population hostage. So it's like, you think the problem is that big. No, it's like 1,300 people. Just throw them in jail. like we got to deal with those people or 1800 people yeah and it's really not like there's all these bad people out there white or blacker and different it's 1800 people yeah that's we've actually talked about that a lot on the chamber uh the chamber commerce the president's circling the chamber commerce and that it's exactly that there's about 2,000 people holding a municipal area total area that's almost close to me and people hostage by their actions and the police will tell you that they're not arresting new people all the time.

They're arresting the same people over and over and over again. So you get rid of those 2,000 people, and your crime drops by about 80%. Yeah, but Bill Donovan is choosing to be positive about the situation. Exactly right. And we can choose to detest that woman or try to educate her. We can choose to not fathom how, 60% of millennials have never even heard of Auschwitz or choose to educate them. Make sure that our schools are actually teaching about this.

For God's sakes, that's all. We need to do a whole, we need to do a series on school. Yeah. Yeah, we should. All right, so that's a lot. Read Mansearch for a meeting. That is how the Shop Talk's supposed to go, you know. Actually, it'd be great to do a follow-up shop talk once you've read the book.

Yeah. And then deeper thoughts from Bill on Man Searcher Meeting. I'll do that, and I promise you I will read the book. I own it. I've got to read the book. Okay, guys, how important is the power of choice? Well, since it's the only thing that you really own that nobody can take from you, I would say that would be something that is of vital importance.

Victor Frankel's life in his book, Man's Search for Meaning, got a lot to learn from it. First and foremost, as a member of the Army of normal folks, protect what you can protect. your word, your response to issues, your ability to choose your response to those issues. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review it, share it on social, share it with friends, subscribe to the podcast, and write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks.com. If you have ideas for Shop Talk, we'd love to take them up. And if you have ideas for people, we'd be guests on an army of normal folks, Alex will call them up and see if they can actually put two sentences together and then we can interview them.

And that's how it works? That's how it works. Okay. Yeah, that's it. Enjoyed being with you in the shop. We'll see you next week. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama.

where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years. That's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill him. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another.

It's okay not to be okay sometimes. and be able to build strength and love within each other. I'm Eli Akani, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. I've always wanted us to have therapy, so this is such a beautiful opportunity. Listen to Season 2 of Family Therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network,

iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. join me danie trejo in nocturno tales from the shadows an anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of latin america listen to nocturno tales from the shadows on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast I'm Ima Lungoria, and I'm Maite Gomez-Huan, and this week on our podcast, Hungry for History, we talk oysters, plus the Mianbi chief stops by. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the OsterCon.

Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms host of Snafoo, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous

guests. Paul Shearer, Angela and Jenna, Nick Kroll, Jordan, Clepper. Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.