An Army of Normal Folks - Michael Gosman: Buy A Home, Build A Community (Pt 1)

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

When Father Dennis Lewis was assigned to St. Michael’s parish in Milwaukee, he discovered a growing number of Hmong and Laotians seeking refuge from the Vietnam War. Many were subjected to a terrible slumlord and so Father decided to start a homebuying ministry that helped coach them through the process. 33 years later, Acts Housing has helped 4,000 low-income families purchase homes!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

To become a homeowner is a lot of hard work, especially for a family that doesn't have credit or has some credit challenges, has low income. Owning your own home and being successful with it is a ton of work. And we can't do that work for you. It's about the family being willing to put in that hard work. And then it acts. We're a coach. Because then at the end, they've achieved something amazing. They don't need us at all. But even better than that is when they help that next family member buy a home without us.

Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a high school football coach in inner city Memphis. And the last part somehow it led to an Oscar for the film about our team. That movie is called Undefeated.

I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. Guys, that is us. Just you and me seeing an area of need and deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Michael Gossman, the voice you just heard, has done. Michael is the head of Axe Housing, which has helped over 4,000 low-income families purchase homes through an incredible empowerment model that I hope will spread across the country. And candidly, I'm dying to bring it to my hometown, Memphis. I cannot wait for you to meet Michael

right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. From iHeart podcasts, before social media, before the internet, before cable news, there was Alan Berg. You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show, and that's why you're a loser. He was the first, and the original shock shot.

That scratchy, irreverent kind of way of talking to people. You're as dumb as the rest, I can't take anyone. I don't agree with you all the time. I don't want you to, I hope that you pick me apart. His voice changed media, his death shocked the nation. And it makes me so angry that he got himself killed because he had a big mouth. KOA morning talk show host Allen Berg

reportedly was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver. He pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects. This guy aggravated everybody. From iHeart Podcasts, this is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A murder happens, the case goes cold. Then over 100 years later, we take a second look.

I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator. And I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a journalist and historian. On our podcast Buried Bones, we reexamine historical true crime cases. Using modern forensic techniques, we dig into what the original investigators may have missed. Growing up on a farm when I heard a gunshot, I did not immediately think murder. Unless this person went out to shoot squirrels, they're not choosing a 22 to go hunting out there. These cases may be old, but the questions are still relevant and often chilling. I know this chauffeur is not of concern.

You know, it's like, well, he's the last one who saw our life. So how did they eliminate him? Join us as we take you back to the cold cases that haunt us to this day. New episodes every Wednesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Barry Bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your

gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st, and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Adventure should never come with a pause button.

Remember the MoviePass era, where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero sense and I could not stop thinking about it. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech Podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines, like the visionary behind MoviePass, Black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of MoviePass, the company that he founded. His story is wild and it's currently the subject

of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans, they're wearing Kobe's shirt, they're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder. Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like.

They're not going to describe someone who looks like me, and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the internet on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For My Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning, River Road.

I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to ten girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and in thinking to the point that if I died for him that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt.

For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning, River Road, starting on July 8th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Gossman from the beer place, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. What's up? Absolutely. Thrilled to be here. Thrilled to have you. When did you get in? I got in last night. A little late. I got in about 830, but it was not too late for me to explore just a little

bit because this is my first time in Memphis. So I had to take advantage of it. What'd you get to see? I got to see some live music. So I walked over to Beale Street. Oh, you went down Beale Street? Yeah, I was so close. No, I went to the, what's it called? Blue City Cafe. Oh yeah, there was live music at Blue City. There was? Yeah, it was. Blind Morris? Mors? Blind Willie Morris? Blind Willie Morris, I think? Yeah, that's... Oh, Blind Willie Morris. It was... I mean, it was so cool. And I wasn't hungry, and I still ordered some food

because I had a buddy who's like, you gotta try the greens. They're so good. You have to try the greens. Did you try the ribs? Yeah. No, I didn't... I couldn't go that deep. It was like 10 o'clock at night. You gotta come back tomorrow now. I mean, you gotta come back soon and try the ribs. But that's cool. Good. Bill, we did get them at your favorite hotel, too. Finally. You stayed at the Peabody? You gotta come back tomorrow now. I mean you gotta come back soon and dry the ribs, but we go

No, we did get him at your favorite hotel to finally you stay at the big body. What a place see see It's very cool. And and please don't tell the hotel, but they had a little soap That's carved like a duck and I stole it through that bag for my love everybody does Everybody does oh Well, I wish you had more time to enjoy our city. You're not far from the National Civil Rights Museum, Beale Street, and the music. You know, we are the home of the blues.

We are the home of the rock and roll. And Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis and Aretha Franklin and Isaac Hayes and Roy Orbison, so much of that is still ingrained in our gritty grit and grind Memphis fabric. And I love it when somebody from Milwaukee comes and only spends five, five hours here, but has a smile on their face. We got a lot to offer. For sure. I got to come back. Yeah, I hope you I hope you do. Michael is the president and CEO of Axe housing based in Milwaukee. And honestly, Michael, I want to come

you want you to come back and I'm dead serious about this. I want to introduce you to our city or our county mayor. And I want them to engage with you. Because I think Axe is the answer is the answer to so much of what else so many of our urban areas I think you guys have I'm as I've read all of the information that Alex gave me on you and your organization I just kept thinking oh my gosh oh my gosh why hasn't this been done before oh my gosh so I can't wait to dive in. And I am dead serious. I invite you back. I really hope you'll take me up on it.

Spend a couple days in Jura City and let me introduce you to some people in Memphis because I think what we're about to find out about what you and Axe does, we need what you do as do many other cities. So let's get into it. And we're going to get to where you are. But could you just first tell us kind of the founding story of Axe and how it evolved before you ever even showed up, when you were just a twinkle in your mommy's eyes?

Adam Tate So Axe was founded more than 30 years ago, and it really came from a rather simple premise, which was the priest at St. Michael's Parish on 24th and Cherry in the city of Milwaukee. He was getting frustrated that he was trying to build a strong congregation there, and there were some struggles. So the neighborhood around the church wasn't doing too well. I've been to Milwaukee once, actually for a Brewers game. Give us what 24th and Cherry is kind of topographically to the city, geographically.

Yeah, so we're talking about a neighborhood community. It's like a mile and a half from our central downtown district. And it is very central, but it feels a world apart from actually being in our downtown, which now is a fairly thriving place. So it was a neighborhood that had a lot of crime, had fairly expensive rents, even though the quality of the homes and the apartments that people were renting were quite low. And the church was struggling because they'd had an influx of refugees from Southeast Asia. So actually a large Hmong population, individuals who'd helped the US during the Vietnam War, they got resettled by Catholic charities, and many of them wound up renting apartments

right in this area around the church. So let's talk about that a little bit. We're talking the 70s, the end of the Vietnam War. So these are Southeast Asians primarily from Laos? Yeah, so Laotian people, typically they had spent then years, many, many, many years living in refugee camps in Thailand before they actually came to the United States. But they had to do the refugee camps, right,

because... describe their involvement with the United States military in Vietnam and why they were refugees in the first place. Yeah, so I'll use one of my colleagues, former colleagues, as sort of husband as an example. I mean, he was a key partner. You know, he was working as a part of one of one of the units and had a real, you know, belief that democracy was important. Also, you know, developed strong relationships with some members

of the military. And yet, you know, the war ends and sort of life is upended. And so they wind up being refugees for a long extended period of time. And I know for some, you know, the war ends and sort of life is upended. And so they wind up being refugees for a long extended period of time. And I know for some, for some, that was a period of years, for some it was much, much, much longer until eventually some of them were able to, because of their service to the United States, were actually able to move to the United States. And many of them settled in Wisconsin, a lot of them settled in Minnesota and some other parts of the country, typically in partnership with the Catholic Church.

So it was through Catholic charities in Wisconsin that many of them got settled. I think it's important for our listeners to remember or be aware of, oftentimes these refugees are here because they assisted us in some war theater where they assisted the CIA. Correct me if I'm wrong, because they assisted us in some war theater or they assisted the CIA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they assisted the CIA. And we lost or we left and now the people in control were our enemies which are now their enemies and then they get persecuted. Was that the case with these folks?

Yeah and my understanding of the life in the refugee camps which is where they were you know in the aftermath of the war is that that was that was not a great place that was not a great place to be and so you know obviously you'd like to think that we as a country can do right by people and if they've really gone out on a limb to try to support us, that then we can offer them something in return. By the way, these tend to be like the hardest working, most incredible, democracy minded individuals. They buy into our culture. Completely.

And I can't help but think, and again, we're talking about the founding in the 70s and get there, but I can't help but think that these were our generation Afghan interpreters. Same type people, people who assisted our military in the Afghan war and then when we had our disastrous pullout, we're left there and then the Taliban were hunting them down, killing them, persecuting them, jailing them for assisting us against

them and when we left Afghanistan and we left them, what are they to do? And so that's what these people are. They're just the Laotian folks. What are they called? They're the Hmong people. They're from Laos. H-M-O-N-G. Okay, the Hmong people from Laos that fought and helped and advised and interpreted and gave our CA and our military information and fought alongside us to try to, for democracy's sake. And when we lost and we left, they're screwed, right? Yeah. Okay, so that's who we're talking about who end up somehow getting here through the Catholic Church, but now they're these guys in America. Right and they're

you know they're sort of plopped down and the church did the best they could but they're they're a part of this congregation they don't necessarily speak the language yet but this was a group of incredibly hardworking people and so the church actually, you know, it was growing because you've got all these Hmong families who now are a part of the church. It's a really special place. The church still, I think says Easter mass and seven languages as part of the service. You kidding? That is awesome. In addition to the Hmong families now there's there's Burmese families and there's multiple

Burmese dialects. There's Hispanic families, there's white families, there's black families. It's a really cool place. There aren't many places in the country that worship in such a diverse group of people come together to worship. It's very cool. But the priest who was leading the congregation at that time was seeing that here's these people, they're so hardworking, but they're renting homes from often slumlords. And even though they were doing the best they

could and they were all working, the amount of money they had left over at the end of the month was extremely small. And he wanted them to put down roots and become a part of the church long-term. He didn't want them every single year, every few months needing to move because the homes weren't being kept or because the landlords were trying to jack up the rent. And so we said, well, what if we could help them actually buy homes? What if, you know, these are responsible working people, but they didn't know about our culture. They didn't know about the home buying process. And so it was clear that- And they didn't have a lot of money. And they didn't have a lot of money. And they were tended to be debt averse. So even the idea

of a mortgage wasn't necessarily something that was intuitive to them or and they were tended to be debt averse. So even the idea of a mortgage wasn't necessarily something that, you know, was intuitive to them or something they were comfortable with. So it wasn't going to be an easy process. But he said, these are the types of people we want owning homes in our city, right? We wouldn't want them to be temporarily here. We want them to put down roots and be a part of building, you know, a great, a great neighborhood. And so he was, he was smart enough, the priest, Father Dennis Lewis, he's still around, amazing visionary leader, still in the Milwaukee community.

But he was smart enough to know he couldn't do everything. So he needed a partner, he needed someone who could actually operationalize this, right? Because Father Dennis is mostly gonna be performing his pastoral duties, he can't be running this housing program. And so he went to the mayor of Milwaukee at the time and said, I need some help.

Hold it. That's government and church working together. I know, right? This is blasphemy. This story is gonna blow your mind. It's a fascinating one. And I'm gonna maybe not share the names of all the individuals that are involved

to protect the innocent. Oh, come on. Share them, let's go. But go ahead, I got you. And the mayor. So this priest, this is still 70s. Well, this is actually late 80s. This is late 80s. But he's got the, okay, 70s, these people come. Now it's a decade of it. His church is growing with him. He sees a need and he reaches the mayor. Exactly. And the mayor at the time was rather forward thinking. He sort of bought into this vision. And he had the, I think the intelligence to realize

that while this was a great idea, it didn't need to be a city program. That, you know, if we tried to make it a city program, it might not be as successful as if there was some way to sort of make it its own thing, partnering with the city. I'm starting to love you mayor now too, or this mayor back then.

So he made an offer, this is the story, I've heard this story many, many times. He made an offer to the priest and he said, so okay, go down to the Department of City Development and see if there's anyone there that you think could really help you with this. And so the priest goes to the Department of City Development, Father Dennis, and he looks around,

and this is his perception. He sees a bunch of mostly men wearing sort of business shirts. They had pencils in their pocket and they've got very neat desks and they just don't seem like the type of person to him who's going to be able to really come into the community that he's a part of and make an impact. And there's one desk that's just a mess. It's messy and he's visited now a few times and that's just a mess. It's just, you know, it's messy. And he's visited now a few times, he never sees anyone there.

He's like, well, who sits there? It's like, well, that's a guy named John Worm. You know, yeah, he works here, but he's always in the community. He's always got some special project he's working on. You know, we don't see him that much. And Father Dennis said, that's my guy. And so he started partnering with this John Wurm,

the city employee, and the two of them, you know, were the leaders of the organization. And they're the reason that the work we do today, helping families transition from renters to owners, is happening, is flourishing at a huge scale, just from those sort of humble beginnings. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, we're thinking about launching a few local chapters of the Army this year.

To dive more into it, check out our recent Shop Talk episode titled, Experimenting with Local Chapters. And if you're interested in potentially leading a chapter in your community, email army at normalfolks.us and Alex would love to connect with you. We'll be right back. From iHeart podcasts, before social media, before the internet, before cable news, there was Alan Berg. You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show. And that's why you're a loser. He was the first and the original shock shock. That scratchy and reverent kind of way of talking to people.

You're as dumb as the rest. That's I can't take anyone. I don't agree with you all the time. I don't want you to. I hope that you pick me apart. His voice changed media. His death shocked the nation. And it makes me so angry that he got himself killed because he had a big mouth.

KOA morning talk show host Allen Berg reportedly was shot and killed tonight in downtown Denver. He pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably 2 million suspects. This guy aggravated everybody. From iHeart Podcasts, this is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A murder happens.

The case goes cold. Then, over 100 years later, we take a second look. I'm Paul Holes, a retired cold case investigator. And I'm Kate Winkler-Dawson, a journalist and historian. On our podcast, Buried Bones, we reexamine historical true crime cases. Using modern forensic techniques, we dig into what the original investigators may have missed. Growing up on a farm when I heard a gunshot, I did not immediately think murder. Unless this person went out to shoot squirrels,

they're not choosing a 22 to go hunting out there. These cases may be old, but the questions are still relevant and often chilling. I know this chauffeur is not of concern. You know, it's like, well, he's the last one who saw our life. So how did they eliminate him? Nicole Tate Join us as we take you back to the cold cases that haunt us to this day.

Brad Kupiec New episodes every Wednesday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Barry Bones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple.

Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Inc. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser, Inc. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Adventure should never come with a pause, but. Remember the movie pass era where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero sense and I could not stop thinking about it. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech Podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines, like the visionary behind MoviePass, Black founder Stacey Spikes,

who was pushed out of MoviePass, the company that he founded. His story is wild, and it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans, they're wearing Kobe's shirt, they're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder.

Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me, and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the internet on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For My Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning, River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse.

Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road, starting on July 8th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

["The Turning River Road"] Okay, so at the beginning, you got a priest, you got a mayor's blessings, and you got messy worm. Boy, this sounds like a recipe for success if you ever came up with one, right? What was their idea then? Yeah, so the idea was we need to make the real estate market work for these refugee families.

So how do we do that? We need to figure out how to, first of all, get them to a place where they can get financing. So there's going to be some work with them to establish credit. We're going to need to talk to them about the importance of that. This wasn't an issue of credit repair. These were individuals who had... Just zero. They just had zero credit, right?

So how do we help them start to build some credit? And then how do we develop the relationships with banks that we're going to need so that when we have a good loan, that we're able to navigate that with the family? Because these families, you know, some spoke some English, some spoke very little English, you know, they were still adapting to living in this country. And they weren't going to be able to navigate the banking system on their own. But I hear this and I'm still thinking these largely have to be middle income at best to lower income folks, although maybe everybody in the family is working and cumulatively they're making enough money to get along, but they're basically barely paying rent and

getting along. along, the idea of a $200,000 house seems a little difficult, but they also figured out a way that the city could take non-performing assets and get them on the tax rolls, which is also incredibly bright and interesting to me. Yeah, and this wasn't the age of the $200,000 home. Okay, even 80 back then. This was the time of the dollar homes. You know, there was such distress in the neighborhood around the church

that there were a lot of deeply distressed homes, and there were opportunities for these families to actually purchase homes, sometimes for a dollar, sometimes for $1,000. Put $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 into these homes, sometimes for a dollar, sometimes for a thousand dollars, put 10, 15, 20 thousand dollars into these homes. And actually that was enough for them to be decent, safe, and code compliant in a lot of instances.

Okay, but this is what I just, when I read this part, I'm telling you bro, this is when I just went crazy. You've got homes that have been foreclosed on or abandoned that the city is really now responsible for because they're gone. Yeah. Nobody's paid the taxes and they're just sitting there. It's a plot of property with the bones of a house still sitting there and nobody to pay the taxes and it ends up being on the assessor's roles, the city or county assessor's roles of properties and every once in a while they have tax sales

and tax sales come up and slumlords come and buy them and put the very littlest amount of work they can in them and rent them. That happens all day every day in cities all over the country. Yes. All right. So what the city is saying is, if you can get your people to learn how to buy homes, we'll open up the roles of these properties that we're getting absolutely no tax revenue for, and we'll sell them at almost nothing if these people come in, fix them up, pay a note, and therefore start paying

property taxes. So when I read that, it's like, hold it, this is a win-win. You're getting people in ownership, you're getting people out of renting of renting and you're getting dilapidated properties fixed up and the city is now getting tax revenue on properties that have that are nothing but a drag on the city's balance sheet is that not is that it I wish I could say it as well as you just said it that's exactly that's exactly right but worm and a priest came up with this in 1980. Yeah, it's pretty, I mean it's pretty amazing that they had the vision to put this thing together. So that's what happened. That's

exactly it. And it was what if we could help them get loans? What if we could coach them through the rehab of the homes? Because these families often were very handy but didn't know about our building codes, didn't know about when permits needed to be pulled. They needed sort of a guide, make sure they don't get ripped off when they're contracting for the services that they were getting. And it was really the two of them at the start. And they were really smart. The way they went about this was incredible. You know, they were struggling early on to attract enough families for the sort of dollar homes that were available. And they got a call from a woman named Belia among refugee wanting to buy one of the homes. But she already owned a home.

She wanted to buy it as an investment property. And they said, OK, Belia. You missed one of the greatest parts about Belia, how she learned to speak English. Watching Wonder Woman and Star Trek. I read that, I'm like, okay, I really, that's how she learned to speak English, according to what I've read. I mean, one of the more, she's someone who, whatever she decided to do in this world,

she was gonna be wildly successful. She is so tenacious, so hardworking. So she hears a no from John Warren, but she wants to buy a house, and he says, this house isn't for you, Belia. We're trying to help new families buy homes. You already own a home. So she decides to start letting people know

about these homes. And so there's an event. So is it a foreclosed house? Is that what it is? Foreclosed homes, foreclosed homes available for a dollar at that time. Tax sales. Yes.

And so even though she has no ability to buy the home, she brings six, seven families out just for this one opportunity because she knows what a good opportunity it is and she wants to share that with her community. And so John sees that she's brought a lot more people to this home than he's ever getting when he's trying to recruit. And he says, what are you doing for work right now?

And she explains to him that she's got sort of a part-time job that she's doing, she's raising her kids, her husband's also working. And he says, have you ever thought about being a real estate agent? Really? And she says, no, I can't read English that well, I don't know anything about the practice of real estate. And he said, what you just did, getting seven families to this house

who wanted to buy this home, that if you can do that, I will help you get your real estate license. I'll help you understand the real estate practice because you have what it takes to be very successful representing this community. And Belia wound up becoming one of, I think the first woman,

Southeast Asian woman in Southeastern Wisconsin, to get her real estate license. And over what wound up being a 25-year-ish career at Axe before she retired, she wound up helping something like 600 or 700 families, the vast majority of whom were Southeast Asian families, purchase homes in the city because of her work. Okay, dude. We're still at the beginning. We haven't even gotten to what you're doing now, majority of whom were Southeast Asian families purchase homes in the city because of her work.

Okay, dude. We're still at the beginning. We haven't even gotten to what you're doing now. But if you go 17,000 properties in this county that are in some level of process of taxes admin k foreclosure. When I say foreclosure, not by banks, because many times they're 80, 70, 60, 80, 90 year old homes, but they've been abandoned, nobody's paid taxes on them, times they're 80, 70, 60, 80, 90 year old homes, but they've been abandoned. Nobody's paid taxes on them. And they're just sitting there on the city's rolls or the county's rolls. And they're producing absolutely no revenue for the city.

And actually the city's kind of responsible for taking care of them because they've had to take possession of them, right? Meanwhile, 40% of the people inside the city of Memphis rent. So you have all these homes that the city would love to get any tax revenue on and get off the rolls and get fixed up so you don't have blight in some of these lower income communities and you have all these people paying rent, oftentimes the slumlords, or at the very least, paying rent for nothing and not building any American dream ownership. This seems like the fix. And you got Worm and a priest and now Belia, the Southeast Asian person actually doing this in Milwaukee. How many homes? I mean, first year, second year, you know, how

did it grow? Yeah. So interestingly enough, at the start, the idea was really just around the real estate piece. And so they had realtors that they were hiring sort of real estate professionals to represent the families. And they didn't have a formal education program for the families, but they had this vision. They had some realtors who took a real interest in supporting the community. And they pretty quickly were able to do maybe a know, maybe a few dozen homes a year, which is pretty significant volume. And then over time, there became an awareness of, you know,

okay, having the the agents is really important. We need families to represent, we need people to represent the families, make sure they're getting a good deal. But we also need designated support. If they're fixing up a distressed home, that's really hard. So we need to make sure that families have some support in that work, because especially if you've never owned a home before, taking on a massive rehab project, hiring out all your own contractors, knowing the order of operations, making sure, yeah, you gotta do the roof before you start worrying

about the kitchen. Like, let's make sure that you're doing things in a smart way to be successful and make good investments in the home. And so over time we sort of have been able to layer in some of that additional support in a more formal way to make sure that first of all we can get to significant volume because the idea behind our program is that neighborhoods do better when families have the opportunity to own the homes they live in. And if we can create more communities where there are large numbers of homeowners, the schools are going to be better, communities are going to be safer, families are going to be healthier, and it's a good platform then for these families to figure

out what's next. You accomplish this thing, you buy a home, you experience that pride of homeownership, you've done something really hard. Well, then maybe you're ready to take a step in your educational journey or in your journey towards a more meaningful career. Maybe it gives you more ability to finance your kids' education or to give them some opportunities. And so as we've been able to sort of continue

to invest in these strategies and make sure that families have the right support, we've seen that homeownership can flourish in a city like Milwaukee, and we think that we've learned some things that can certainly benefit a lot of other cities around the country, and from what you're saying, it sounds like maybe Memphis might be one of those places.

Yeah, I'm bringing your butt down here. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. From I Heart podcasts, before social media, before the internet, before cable news, there was Alan Berg. You dig what I do. You have a need. Unfortunately, you have no sense of humor. That's why you can't ever enjoy this show.

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Axe housing. And they didn't even... Allied Churches Teaching Self-Empowerment. Yeah, so that was the initial name, that was the name we were incorporated under. And it was the two of them, it was some other church leaders from the area who saw what they were doing and said, we want this for the neighborhoods around our churches too. And they didn't even have like a 501c3 designation. They weren't even an official nonprofit. They just started doing it, right?

They weren't worried about sort of what paperwork might need to be formed. It was about this is work that needs to happen. Let's start doing it. I read, I think it's on a website somewhere, I don't know where Alex found it, but they clarified their vision, putting people in charge of their own lives. Axe was not interested in more affordable rental housing.

The organization wanted occupants to become owners as soon as possible. So Axe went to work. And when I read that, I also read about the father's attitude toward if we can get people to own, that means they invest in the communities and the communities improve. Talk to us about that. Yeah, so clearly there's a value to the individual family through ownership. You know, often there's a savings.

They actually spend less owning the home than they were paying in rent. They're building equity. But, you know, key to Father Dennis's vision wasn't just that that one family would be successful. It was that the example that they would set for the block, for the neighborhood, the fact that there would be more families on the block who'd feel like they have this ownership interest, it would mean that the neighborhoods would get safer. People would be looking out for each other. It would mean that there'd be much less moving around, which is a huge challenge for the church and for the neighborhood.

You know, if you've got families on a block that are moving all the time, you're not building that sort of network of support, much more likely then to attract nuisance, attract crime, have things maybe fester that otherwise a long-standing homeowner wouldn't stand for. And so they really focused on the area right around the church and figured if they could get multiple homeowners on every block, that that could not only improve the lives of the families who are the new homeowners, but improve the lives of the renters too, right? And also give them, renters, an example of maybe homeownership is something that you could, you could strive for, you could achieve. Yeah, you know, it makes sense. If I'm living on a street and I'm renting a house and it's

not mine, it's just a place that I stay because I pay a monthly rent and there's a pile of crap on a curb. It doesn't bother me that bad. It's not my pile of crap and it's not my curb. But when I own it, if there's a pile of crap on my curb, I'm going to find out who's dumping it. I'm going to get it cleaned up because now you're messing on my thing. So when you instill ownership in a community, you instill a sense of community pride and things start changing.

That's exactly right. And I've we've seen it firsthand in Milwaukee. I've seen it firsthand. I was talking with a homeowner. I do some walking tours sometimes in areas where we've had sort of the greatest impact. And I was talking to a long standing homeowner. I didn't know they were an Axe alumnus. I just was walking on the block. I started talking to them, asked them how they bought their home and they wound up being an Axe homeowner. I didn't know they were an Axe alumnus. I just was walking on the block. You didn't even know. I started talking to them, asked them how they bought their home, and they wound up being an Axe homeowner. And while we're talking, there's a car that's just sort of parked on the block,

and the person in the car dumped some trash out. And I didn't see it happen. My back was to the car. But the gentleman I was talking to said, hey, give me a second. He goes, he knocks on the window, and he talked to the guy who dumped the trash. And he said, hey, don't a second. He goes, he knocks on the window, and he talked to the guy who dumped the trash, and he said, hey, don't do that, don't bring that here.

And I'm not saying- That's the greatest story I've ever heard. That is perfect. That is awesome. And a renter could do that too, but way less likely. This is someone who's at a long-standing stake in that block, and more likely that they're because of that position going to feel confident to set some good norms for what goes on in

that block and what doesn't. The more I hear about this, here's something else that Alex said that I'd like you to comment on. Most solutions are top down solutions. They don't deal with people. They think if we just build enough, that's going to fix things, but they don't necessarily solve the problem

because that doesn't help families provide for themselves. And what we're doing at AXE is we're starting from the bottom up. We start with the family. Yeah, so the vision for AXE, it always started with the individual family. So although the hope was that neighborhoods would improve and that we would start this ownership ethic that could be contagious, it was all about if we can help one family improve their lives, if we can work hand in hand with them, help them navigate our home

buying process, we're setting, they're gonna be set up for success. And it's not about providing homeownership to a family. And this is a real key distinction and something that I really always like to make clear. To become a homeowner is a lot of hard work, especially for a family that doesn't have credit or has some credit challenges, has low income. Getting ready to become a homeowner,

owning your own home and being successful with it is a ton of work. And we can't do that work for you. It's about the family being willing to put in that hard work and then it acts, we're a coach, right? That's how we see ourselves. We see ourselves as how do we provide the families? We're not on the field.

They're the ones in the field. They're the ones who are doing all this hard work, but we want to position for them for success. We want to help them understand the key habits that they're going to need to invest in if they're going to be successful. We get to cheer them on when they're able to clear off debt and make strides towards homeownership. And when they're falling short, we get to, at times, give them a little kick in the butt. Like hey, we know to at times give them a little, you know, kick in the butt, right?

Like, hey, we know you can do this. And, you know, based on what we've seen over the last couple of months, is homeownership no longer something that you're passionate about? Is it no longer something that is a priority for you to be able to provide for your kids? So sometimes we've got to do some of that too, but it's about the family stepping up and doing this really hard work because then at the end, they've achieved something amazing. And the coolest thing is, then they typically, they don't need us at all.

It's not like they're coming back to us every time something goes on at the house. Even more than that, pretty often, their next family member who buys a home, sometimes they refer that family member to us. And that's really cool. That's an honor when someone refers someone to us and says that we can help them.

But even better than that is when they help that next family member buy a home without us. Yeah, they don't even need you anymore. They don't even need us anymore. And we don't always hear that story. That means they're starting to assimilate into how things work, which is beautiful. Exactly.

And so we don't always capture those stories. But on my walks sometimes, you know, I, on this very same block, I shared the story of the trash. There was a gentleman and he had the nicest house in the block and he'd just done a ton of work on it. It was really impressed. And so I saw him outside the house and so I just introduced myself to him. And I asked him if he heard of Axe housing.

And he said, heard of you? Of course, I bought my first house with you. So, you know, he bought his first house. And I don't know if this was house number two or number three, but he kept, you know, his family had greater needs. He'd done well enough. He was able to sort of move up, move on to that next house. But we didn't help him with transaction two or transaction three. He'd learn through the process. He was now able to access the home buying marketplace successfully by himself with confidence. That's the best case scenario. If you don't care about that from a social point of view, you should care about that just pragmatically because you took a renter who is really contributing

very little to the tax base. And you created a guy now who has bought and rehabbed two or three homes and stepped himself up in the tax base to continue to be a greater contributor to your society. Pragmatically, if you don't even care about the social side, pragmatically, that is how cities grow. And if you believe that we're only as strong as the weakest link in the chain, and you strengthen that weakest link, think what that does. If you had, that's one story.

If you have 10,000 of those, think of how your city changes. It's phenomenal. So, somehow I really wanna know how you did this. Somehow through, you worked out a deal with the city, I may be screwing this up, straighten me out, that properties valued less than 25,000 that were on the city's foreclosure listing

for more than 30 days could be purchased for $1,000. Then those that have been on the listing for more than 60 days can purchase for a dollar. And certainly their inspection costs and things have to be done to the house to get it livable. But the point is, somehow the priest, worm, somebody got somebody at the city to say, yeah, it makes more sense to get these off the rolls and fixed up for blight for tax purposes. Who and how did that go? Because that to me, is kind of a public private agreement that serves everybody well. But is that correct that properties

value to less than $25,000 that were on the sears rolls for more than 30 days could be purchased for a thousand bucks, 60 days for a dollar. How did that all happen? That's awesome. Yeah. So I really think AXE has always been, I would say, a strong partner to the city of Milwaukee. And because of the early success we had helping families purchase and fix up these distressed homes, it encouraged the city to try and expand the partnership.

How do we create more pathways for homeownership? And what the city was seeing was that when homes were taken through tax foreclosure, typically one of two things was happening. And this is really in the aftermath of like the 2008 foreclosure crisis that they started to have massively more inventory. And one of two things happened. Either the home sold quickly to an investor, and I'll put investor in quotes,

because most of the individuals who are buying those homes, many of them, they aren't from our community, they don't live in Milwaukee, and they're seeing dollar signs. They're seeing dollar signs. They're hoping that they can just not do any repairs, hopefully, put someone who's desperate in the apartment or in the home, charge a bunch of rent, and then ultimately those homes, pretty frequently they get lost because they're not maintaining them and they're just trying

to create as much short-term rental income as they can. So the city saw a lot of that activity happening, which they saw as very negative. Or some of the more distressed homes, they would just sit forever. And the longer a home sits vacant, the worse it gets. And then it becomes less likely that it can be reclaimed. Because a lot of the homes, once they've sat for years, they really do need to be torn down. By the way, if the city owns the property,

that's 20, $25,000 maybe depending on the size of the home for the city just to tear it down. And then you got a vacant lot. And in most of Milwaukee's neighborhoods, unfortunately, there is not a sufficient market for brand new construction. You wind up spending a lot more to build a new home than you can sell that home for. And so the vacant

lots are a big problem because long term it means... They just sit there. There's a vacant lot, it's not good for the block, it's not good for the neighborhood, and it's very bad for the city's tax base. And the grass doesn't get cut, it looks like hell, and it makes the community feel bad. And so the city was pretty proactive about wanting to partner with us and others to see how can we get more of these homes into owner-occupied state. And as a result, especially in that, you know, 2008 to maybe 2015 period when there were so many tax foreclosures, we were literally able to help more than a thousand families

purchase and fix up formerly foreclosed properties. Which are a thousand homes now on the tax rolls, paying into the city's revenue base, and a thousand families taking ownership and community. A thousand. A thousand, yeah. We've helped more, over our 30 year history, it's more than a thousand families

have purchased these foreclosed homes. And the vast majority of that was in that period right after 2008 when there was just so much unfortunate inventory. And I just think it was really smart on the city's part. You can look at it two ways. You can look at these tax foreclosures as a liability. And of course they are. The city needs to maintain them. They're not bringing in revenue. But the city of Milwaukee, to a large degree, decided to look at it as a significant opportunity to promote homeownership. And how often are we going to have this situation where our city owns so many homes? If we can get a large percentage of those to actually be

owner occupied instead of being absentee investors. That's a good investment in the future stability of our city. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Michael Gossman. And you don't want to miss part two that's now available to listen to. Together guys, we can change this country. But it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. original shock check. That scratchy, irreverent kind of way, talking to people and telling them that you're an idiot and I'm going to hang up on you.

This is Live Wire, the loud life and shocking murder of Alan Berg. And he pointed to the Denver phone book and said, well, there are probably two million suspects. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops and They get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future

where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser, Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. Listen to Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine.

My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. When we step beyond the edge of what we know. I clinically died, the heart stopped beating, which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. In return. It's a miracle I was brought back. Alive Again, a podcast about the strength

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And this season, I'm digging into the tech stories we weren't told, starting with Stacey Spikes, the black founder of MoviePass, who got pushed out of the company he built. Everybody's trying to knock you down, and it's not going to work, and no one's going to like it. And then, boom, it's everywhere. And and no one's gonna like it and then boom It's everywhere and that was that moment

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