An Army of Normal Folks - Mik And Tracy Taylor: The Faces of Transracial Adoption (Pt 1)

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Transracial adoption is a term that we didn’t know, until we met the Taylors. The black couple adopted 2 white kids and 1 black kid. And we have a fascinating conversation about love, hate, stereotypes, and redemption! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Shopping in the produce section in this little old white gentleman has been in his late 70s, early 80s. You must have paid a pretty penny for him is what he said to me. And it took everything in me not to rise up in that moment. I didn't have enough bail money. I'll put it that way. You know, I didn't want to be on the... Some of the stuff you said the prep was really funny.

I was waiting for your sense of humor. There it comes right there. I didn't want to be on the local news as the angry black. I built this whole persona. I built this whole personality, and I want to stay in that place. So I chose just to walk away. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis. And somehow that last part led to a film about one of our

teams that won an Oscar. That thing's called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us, just you and me saying, you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Meek and Tracy Taylor, the voices you just heard have done. That white gentleman apparently didn't like that. they as black parents fostered and later adopted a white kid. This is called transracial adoption, a term I don't even think I ever heard before meeting these guys. And the tailors went on to adopt three children in total, two of which are white and one is black. And we had a fascinating

conversation about transracial adoption, which you're about to hear right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman.

There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another.

I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where, where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him. Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook.

There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog and I ended up inviting them over for food. And that was like one of my proudest moments. This is family therapy. Real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. to Season 2 of Family Therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me in Nocturno? Tales from

the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures and experience the horrors to have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal, Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. as part of my Cultura Podcast Network, available on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Iba Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomesrich Juan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things. Food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Oster Khan, to vote politicians into exile.

So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very mi-casa is-su-casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be it forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico. Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor rights. They had education rights.

Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book, The Big Short, tells the story of the buildup and births of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Isman.

We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Shorts' original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, it is as relevant today as it's ever been,

offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin.fm. slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold. Meek and Tracy Taylor, welcome to the podcast. How are you guys? We're good, thank you. Good, good. So everybody, Meek is short for Tamika.

So when I saw this, it's spelled M.I.K and Tracy Taylor and I made the assumption that the female partner in this union was Tracy and the male partner was M.I.K. And I thought it was Mike. And I thought I was interviewing Mike and Tracy Taylor comes up. Yes, Tamika and Tracy Dood, Taylor. That's right. I'm already backwards. That's okay. So thanks for being here.

So everybody, this is really a cool find for our show. We did our live interview with Peter Muda-Bazi, who is the single dad. Many of you remember, if you've listened to the episode, if not, I'd highly suggest you go back and get it because the dude is hilarious and amazing. Peter Mudebosie is the single dad who's fostered 47 kids and adopted three of them and is in the process of adopting two more. And after we did that, we got tagged in this Instagram post that caught our attention. It was from an account named Foster While Black Fam. Is it dot com or something?

Well, how does it go? Just Foster Wild Black. He knows nothing about Instagram, as you could probably tell us. Oh, yeah. Listen, I'm social media inept. If it wasn't for Alex, I wouldn't know what to do with those twatter. What is it called? Well, it's not ax, but okay.

Oh, Twitter. So it was from an account named Foster Wild Black Fam, which apparently has 148,000 followers and whose description says, not the average pastor's wife, mommy, shining light on transracial adoption. I have to admit a phrase, I'd never even. heard of or thought of before we got that, which is something we're absolutely about to get into. The Post had a picture of Peter with our two interview attendees, and it read this. Well, look who I surprised. You know him as the most famous foster dad, but I call him my friend. I showed up to listening on his interview. I'm so proud of you, Peter, and the work you've done is bring

awareness to the foster care community and representing families like ours so well. You, my friend, are the blueprint. Your wisdom, your big heart, and added humor have helped so many of us on our foster care journey. Much love to you. And it led to our producer, Alex, who really just sits around most time actually doing something, and he looked into these folks who called themselves foster wild black fam who are now sitting in front of me.

Tracy and Meek Taylor, again, thanks so much for being here. We're going to talk about this story with you guys for November's National Adoption Month. And we can't wait to get into your extraordinary adoption story today. Sounds good. So is that about how we found out about each other? Sounds about it. And who's making these posts? Is it Tracy or me?

I'm the voice behind. You're the voice behind the whole. Instagram thing. I got it. I read that this is going to open your heart a little, show who you are, Meek. I read that when you were a kid used to see commercials and it tugged at your hearts for children in Africa that were starving and had no families. Talk about that a little bit. Because it feels like it set the stage for what your life is today a little.

It definitely set the stage. It was me asking my grandfather over and over. Can we send money, you know, to those kids? those orphans in Africa. Can we help to feed the need? He's looking at me. I don't worry. I read that. I didn't know how to work.

Maybe no more than 10 at the time. Why are you going to send money to kids in Africa? I was a kid. You know, we had snacks. I had apples and oranges on the table when I came home from school, and I wanted them to have it. There were flies all over these kids. They were starving. This is the picture that they portrayed.

So I wanted to help. I wanted to do my part. But my grandfather, no. You know, this is a scam. They're not actually giving those kids money. So his no was my name. determination. His no is what's set in my heart. When I'm able to, I'm going to do something. Yeah. All right. So you get kids. Tell me about this first kid you have, this child of yours.

You want Taylor? No, you're talking about. Taylor. Our biological daughter. Yes. You're about your first daughter. Go ahead. Oh, Taylor. Let's see. How old are you when you have your first child? We were 19. 19. 19. Got married. Got married at 19. No, we got married at 19, first child was at 20. Yeah, we were still young, very young. Yeah, still in the honeymoon stages of marriage, and here comes Taylor. Not much of a honeymoon. Didn't last long, didn't it?

Did not last long, but didn't know at the time that she had Down syndrome. You know, here we are two young people and having no clue as to what we're doing. And 20-year-olds, at least now were young, too. 20-year-olds, I got no business with a baby at all anyway. No, no, no, no. Had no idea. And then a down syndrome. Yes, yes. That's tough.

Luckily, one day I was in a grocery store, I ran into this lady, and she walks up to me and she says, it's Down syndrome, right? And I've looked at her and I, no, she doesn't. I was in denial. Really? For two years, I was in denial. The doctors didn't take? They mentioned it and I just brushed it off. Yeah. Wow. So for two years, I was in denial because I was young, you know? This only happened to older white people with kids, you know, somebody over 40. I was only 20.

I was only 20. That's just my reality. It's what I read. That's what I thought. Now, that's interesting. I don't know this. Is Down syndrome a heavy white thing? It is not.

No. It's a chronological thing. Okay. So, but you just assumed it was an old of white people? I just assumed. I wasn't miseducated. I didn't know. I didn't know.

That's funny. She doesn't. She's fine. There's nothing wrong with her. So I brushed it off. And, but luckily, the lady, her name is Martin Hobson. She gave me her phone number. And I ended up reaching out to her.

Didn't know at the time that she was. was over the Down Syndrome Association here in the Mid-South. Connected with Martine, and she helped me get Taylor aligned with all the services that she needed. And now Taylor's, what, 27 years old? She's thriving. She graduated from high school. She worked at Firehouse Subs. She's doing really, really well. Yeah. Hadn't had any major health issues or anything, like a lot of people with Down syndrome would have, yeah. Okay, so a blessing. Yes. Absolutely. All right. So, so here are you. are. Young couple, married, where you're from, doing your thing, you're working hard, falling right into your dad's footsteps. And by the way, when you talked about your dad,

the eyes and facial expression showed just how much reverence you have for that man. Absolutely. It's so clear. And it looks like you've fallen right in because you want to be what he was. Exactly. Exactly. Very special person to me. So, um definitely wouldn't it's those are footsteps that i don't mind uh traveling you know and so but um as far as taylor um i i remember when we came home she went to the doctor and uh did her uh cat scan and when we got the photo back um i remember looking at taylor on that on that on that what is it called sonogram the sonogram yes on the sonogram, and I could see the side of her face.

And I remember saying to myself, I never said to my wife, that it looked like she has Down syndrome because of the bridge. The bridge in or no. Now, I don't know if it was me, if it was God, you know, and flesh and blood has not revealed unto you, you know, but, you know, your God, which is in heaven. So I believe maybe that God was revealing something to me at that time in preparation for what was to come.

even though after she got here, we both were in denial, because I remember being in Home Depot with her at one time, and she was sitting in the basket. And a lady came up to me, and she said, oh, she has Down syndrome. You know, those are very special people. And I immediately said, no, she doesn't, you know, just in denial. Again, young.

Can I ask you something? Was it that you, I got a phrase this right? Were you in denial because you were afraid it said something about you? For me, it wasn't that it said something about me. It's just that I'm too young. Kids, you know, 20-year-olds don't have babies with Down syndrome. It just doesn't happen. Everything I remember reading, I read in the fourth grade,

I remember being in Ms. Moore's classroom at Hamilton Elementary and reading about Down syndrome. And it said you had to be 47 years old or older, and that's stuck in my head. It happened to old people. When I was old, old, I was young. Not at all. They got it wrong this time. Yeah.

So it was just like this can't be happening to us. Yeah. So it was more incredulity. Yes. Than anything. Right. Right. No way this could be happening.

And you're proud of your baby. Right. Here we go. Yeah. Right. You know, we did everything the right way. Yeah. You know, we felt.

It doesn't happen to us. We didn't have a child until after we were married. You know, all of these things that you say that you should do in life, you know, doing things the right way. To be told that you have a child with Down syndrome with this disability, you know, that you're going to have to raise. Being so young and me, I'm thinking, hey, I'm going to be able to have a child, going to grow up, be able to run around with them and do all of these fun things with them. And now you're hit with this hammer that says, hey, you're going to have to make some adjustments to that, you know, and you're thinking. And, you know, of course, once we got her, once she came, we realized it wasn't much different.

There was a little bit more work involved, but it wasn't much different as far as like a child as a child, you know. You know, so once we got to that point and understanding that, hey, this was more of a task given to us from God, more so than it was, you know, a detriment to our lives. I think we were able to embrace it and get to the point where, okay, there are some things that she need and some things that we need to do in order to get her to where she needs to be, you know, in her life, you know. So it became more of a of a task that we took on that we felt like God had given us. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. but first, I hope you'll consider signing up to join the Army at normalfolks. Us. By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or if you prefer reading about our incredible guests. We'll be right back.

Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the base. basic business plan, just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable. without AI and now will happen.

I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm I'm I Belongoria. And I'm Maita Gomez-Guan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikasa esu-sucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always

stopped by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be so forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor rights. They had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to, hungry for history. as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here.

My book The Big Short tells the story of the buildup and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Isman. we fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan,

there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, it is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight

into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at pushkin.fm.fm. slash audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold. Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Trejo.

Won't you join me in Nocturno? Tales from the Shadow. An anthology. of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures and experience the horrors to have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for nocturnal,

tales from the shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him.

This one's from a little bit better of a version of him. Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog. And I ended up inviting them over for food.

And that was like one of my proudest moments. This is family therapy. Real families, real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. Listen to season two of family therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My wife is 54. I'm sure she loves you saying that.

In about a week. yeah you're in trouble and she has two siblings a sister that is 14 years younger and a brother that is 10 or 9 years younger

and Ben my brother-in-law is special needs and I met Lisa when Ben was seven or eight so that's now he's in his 40s

So I've grown up with them, too. I was your age when you had your child when I met Lisa. So, and I will just say this, I absolutely believe parents of special needs kids, the Lord gives those kids to very special people. because I've watched Gary and Peggy love and work and tow the line more than most parents ever dream of towing the line and fight for their child. And at any rate, I just want to tell you you can see the love you talk about your child within your eyes

and hearing your voices and I know the work because I've been there. But in the same respect, you don't want to be treated or thought of any differently. No. Your parents that you love and you want your, everybody understanding your daughter has a soul and as a human being and has all of the things inside of her that makes every other person tick. Exactly. I get it. And that's one of the things that we realized very quickly that we had to fight for. Yeah.

You know, very quickly realized we had to fight for that. That's a whole not a story. Yeah, that's a whole not. We can talk another two hours about that. But yeah, but one of the reason why she became a stay-at-home mom was because that task, you know, had become so daunting. Trying to work and fight for your child at the same time, it just wasn't working, you know, because you got people that wanted to put your child in a box and tell you what your child couldn't do or what your child wouldn't be able to do. And so we had to be on the first.

front line, you know, and compliments to her. She was on the front line and she fought by our daughter to get everything that she needed in order for her to be educated the way any typical child in this world would be educated. Of course, it took a little bit more work on our part, and it took more work, you know, on the parts of the teachers, which is probably the reason why there was a pushback, you know, not wanting to dig deep into working harder and educating a child with Down syndrome or a child with a child with special needs. But I thank God for my wife being, and thank God for us being able, you know, in a time where it wasn't easy to live off of one income, you know.

But God being a provider that he is, allowed my wife to be able to take off of work for, what, a good 12, 13 years, you know, to be on the front line, you know, to fight for our child with Down syndrome. And so that was a blessing all together. And this is not even what your story's about. No. This is just setting up who y'all are because your thing is not called black folks with Downshod.

It's called Foster Wild Black family. So there you are. Parents fighting, living at home, living the dream. And then you want to have another child. And you're told you can't. Yeah. How old were you when that news broke? Oh, gosh.

We were still young. I think we decided for a while because of our child with Down syndrome that we were going to hold off on trying to conceive again. So it was probably about 10 years after we wanted to make sure that she was, you know, good and established to the point where we could handle. You can handle it. Exactly. Yeah.

That makes sense. So now you're about 30. Yeah. Right. Exactly. We're about 30. And you said, well within childbearing age. And you said, let's have a kid.

Let's have another child. Let's try to have a boy. Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that just kind of, the Lord throws that out there how he wants to. But anyway, and then you're told you can't.

Yes. Yes. How'd that hit you? it was it was very hard for a while it was hard but we knew we knew that there was a need in our community we knew that even if we couldn't it wasn't our plan B adoption or false care wasn't our plan B it was our also we're going to do this anyway you know really yeah oh yeah we're going to do this anyway let's just spit up the process you know we can't do this so we're going to go ahead and take care of what needs to be taken care fill out all the paperwork and uh right and move forward so that's what we

We Taylor graduated high school, and I want to say not even six months after that. No, because David was already in the home when she graduated. So the timing lined right up. Line right up. It was perfect. So tell me about as a foster parent, the first placement. That was David, our first placement. Filled out the paperwork, like I said, we put down the age group.

We wanted an infant up to the age of six, no child older than six. No child older than six. I just wanted to be able to have it in that age group where you can still kind of mold and, you know, shape a child. So I got a call for a little boy. Before that, actually, when you're filling out the paperwork, they asked if you had a preference about race. Correct. Did not check any box? Just wanted a child.

Did you accidentally leave that all for you, didn't care? I didn't mark the box because I didn't care. We didn't care at all. That was never an issue with us. Did it dawn on you, and that's, when you're filling out a bunch of paperwork and going to classes, I don't know, I've not done it, but I'm putting myself in your shoes. You're filling out the paperwork, you're going through these classes, you're having probably really serious talks about, I mean,

you roll on the dice a little bit on what type of human being might show up in your life. So you've got to be having real conversations. Pillow talks probably pretty serious on that. We had talks. I don't think we had one talk about race. I don't think that... No, I'm not talking about race. I'm talking about just foster care and adoption and all.

In general, yes. So when that box comes up, did you pay it, no, never mind, or did you even think about it? Paid to no, never mind. It was nothing to think about. I mean, it was a child that was in need, you know. So this is the question I was thinking about on the right over here. Was there a little bit of night? Vite there? No. I worked in child care for, before this, for what, 10 plus years? My classrooms

were diverse. I've taken care of everybody's child, you know, I've taken care of the little Muslim child, taking care of the little black child, taking care of the little Asian child. So this was just my motherly instinct. There was no box. It was a child that needed a home, that needed a safe place. Yeah. That was just it. That was just it. says a lot about you. Okay, so then you get a call. We get a call, and it's for a little six-month-old, eight-month-old baby boy. And the case—

named David. The caseworker described him as a little blue-eyed brunette baby boy. He said, okay, give me a minute, let me call my husband and see if we're ready. And he said, okay. They brought him to the house, and it was the cutest little chunky. Well, when you heard blue-eyed, brown-haired baby boy, Well, you knew that was a white kid. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I just didn't know that they were in the system because I didn't know that they were little white kids in the system, not as many. You know, the pickings. I didn't, I had to say pickings, but for the most part, we thought that there were mostly African American children in the system or Latino children in the system because that's what been portrayed, have been shown to us. But I was glad. Did you know there's more white kids on the system? I did not.

I do not know. I know. I know the stats now. It's one of the, I mean, hell, we're talking about it, so I'm just going to say it. As a white person, it's one of the things that bothers me that people don't understand. There are more white kids in the system than there are kids of color. And it's, it would be obvious because there's more white people in the country than there are people of color. Why wouldn't there be more kids? Unfortunately, the African-American community as a percentage has more kids on the foster care system. But as a total number, there are more white kids in the foster system than there are.

I looked it up this morning. Let's do the Mythbusters right now. Yeah. But it is. But you're right. It's something we don't even think about. Exactly. We make these societal preconceived assumptions that are just inaccurate because of the narratives were fed.

Right. We'll be right back. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company,

which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shellgame on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the buildup and burst of the

U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The big short story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at Pushkin.fm.fm. slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold.

Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Treckel. Don't you join me in Nocturno, Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. And experience the horrors to have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal, Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm I'm Yvalongoria, and I'm Mytego-Mish-Hun. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa esucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico.

No, the America. No, the Gulf of Mexico. Continuano are saying forever and ever, it blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him.

Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog. And I ended up inviting them over for food. And that was like one of my proudest moments. This is family therapy.

Real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. Listen to season two of family therapy every Wednesday on the Black of Effect Podcast Network, IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, David, with his blue eyes and brown hair and what'd you say, chunky cheeks? The chunkiest cheeks you could see. Yeah. The cutest little kid ever, sweetest boy. Came into her home, and I have a picture on my Instagram page, and my husband's looking at him like, Wow, he's in total shock, but it's not so much as race. He's in shock that someone would let this beautiful baby boy come into the system.

Yeah. You know, how could you let him down? Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, you know, when she called and told me, she said, she said, he has brown hair. He's a little boy as brown hair. I believe the statement she made, but he's white, you know. And I said, okay.

You know, it was no big deal. You know, I don't know if she thought it was going to be some pushback because of that for me, but, you know, like I said, it was no big deal, you know, dealing with the fact that he was white, you know. He was a child that needed a home that needed a home like the home that I had that I grew up in, you know, and that's one of the things that that motivated me to be open about, you know, adopting, you know, is that, hey, I want to be able to provide a home for a child that has both parents in it. You know, and I know that a home like that, not that a child with a single parent can't have a strong home, but I do know, from my experience, that a home that has two parents in it, that has a mother and a father, that's handling their business the way they should, that that child has a better opportunity to be successful in life. The numbers. You know, look, you're talking to a guy who grew up, my mom was married divorce five times. You're talking to a guy whose dad left when he's four.

And I realize I beat the numbers. Yeah. And that's just, people may cringe or, you know, our 2025 society may want to say that one parent's just as good as two. Well, that's horse crap. It's just not true. It's just best one. Not that people can't come out of that, fine. Right.

You did. Oh, yeah. But I did. I mean, my wife would argue I kind of did, but I did okay. But the point is, you're right. And so that's what you want to provide. So here's David. Yes.

Brown-haired, blue eyes, chunky cheeks. But at this point, you're fostering. David, was the intent to adopt? The goals were set for the bio parents, the biological parents, to possibly regain. If they were to work the case, the goals set by the judge, then he would go back. However, that wasn't the case. Let's, for all our listeners who don't really understand the foster thing, and really I didn't until we've interviewed a few folks and then, of course, Peter. But the idea of how foster care is for you to care and love for this child while the biological family gets their life together in order to rejoin that child with his biological family.

It's always the goal. But in the event, their family doesn't get together or wants to give up their rights, then you have. options to adopt. That's how our system sounds good on paper seems to be a little broken, but that's what y'all were in for. Yeah. How in the world do you care for and love on a child and create these connections with this child knowing you may have to give that child back up? That has to be hard. It's hard. However, you know that it's what's best. You know, you always want to go for reunification if the parents have made a turnaround. You know, you want reunification. And why not? If you build... Reunification. That's the phrase. And why not? If you build

a relationship with that biological parents, with that family, you can also still become a part of... Do you build a relationship with the biological family, too? Yes. Yes. Yes. We still have a connection. We still have a connection. We're both of our boys. So you know that. Yes. Yes. And it's just an extension of family. What's how many, you know, what's wrong with the child having a lot of people to love them? But in David's case, that wasn't in the cards? It was. It was. It was in the cards.

We always, Tennessee has closed adoptions. However, we extended that invitation. We wanted him to know his family. We wanted him to know, as long as you're in a good place, it's fine. Communication is open. And we wanted that for our boards. I mean, how long could we hide the fact that we're not your biological parents? You know?

Right. I mean, up until he learns his colors, right? I don't know. Cassius, how long do you think they could hide that? Not for too long, right? So why not? Yeah. So tell me about the journey with David. Well, I want to say this first. Okay. When you approach adoption, foster, as we should as a ministry, because Bible said true religion is that you take care. of the orphans and the widows, you know.

And so when you approach it like so, I just think it makes it a lot easier, you know, to deal with the things that come along with it because you understand what your role is, what your purpose is in this situation. It's not a nice thing to do. It's a requirement of our faith. Exactly. Exactly. And so the thing, sometimes God give us tasks that may not be easy, but it's our task.

It's our purpose. Me as a pastor, it's not easy to pass. you know, but it's the purpose that God has given me. And so I have to accept it and I have to embrace it. And whatever comes along with it, I have to be willing to accept that. You know, and so for that, you know, when you say, was it hard, you know, knowing that you, there's a possibility, you may just have this child, you know, for a period of time and you have to, you know, separate yourself from them or whatnot. Yeah, that's always on the human side. But the spiritual side or the ministry side of it, we have to understand.

understand that, hey, we're in this child's life for a reason, and that may be for a season. We have to make sure that we give that child everything that they possibly wouldn't get, you know, before they exit this home. And one of the greatest thing that you can give any child is a relationship. You can help them to a relationship with Christ, you know. And so I, even at eight months old, introducing that child to things like church, seeing people together in Bible study. A community.

A community, you know, that loves them, regardless of their color, that race, you know, what their background is. I think that is more important, you know, than anything that we could have ever done, you know, for any of our children. You know, rather they wind up staying with us or rather they were to go and be with their bios. Because guess what, if they leave us with the knowledge of the Lord, and I hate for this to go into, well, I don't hate for it to go into ministry because that's what I am, that's who I am. And so I approach it like so. If they were to leave our home, then maybe they'll be the ones to help their family members who maybe they don't have the relationship with God as they should. They could take that to their bio families, you know, and help save their bio families. So that's always the approach.

Ministry is always the approach for us, you know, when it comes to anything that we try to do. You know, so that is selfless. That is beautiful. it still has to be ringing in the back of your very human, failed, mind, and heart, tough. You can't tell me it's not a little tough thinking you may lose this being that you love. I will tell you that I would go into court with anxiety, with heart palpitations. The human side of me, yes, we knew that there was a chance that he could go back. I waited in the chairs and the cold hard seats in the courtroom, waiting and looking around my

shoulder to see who was going to show up for this kid, were his parents going to actually come to court for him that day? Was this the day that he may not come back with us? Those are real feelings, but we knew that if he were to go back home to his parents, we'd given him us, we've given him a foundation, we've given him Christ, we've given him love and stability. And we knew and we hoped that whatever judge or whoever was in a position to change that would see what was best for David, what was best for each one of our kids. So we hung on to hope in those moments is what we did. And it turned out that in his case that he was to come home

to us, he was able to be adopted. How old was he when he became your son? He'd been with us since he was eight months. He was two and a half. Two and a half. It was a long journey. okay so let's get into some of what peter talked about that i think is really germane to the story before we go to child number two because y'all crazy that's what a lot of people say because y'all are nuts out your minds i want to be delicate but i want to be real so i'm not the most delicate human being as a lumberman and a football coach i'm I kind of crash into stuff, so I'm going to try real hard. Go ahead.

In the South. Well, there was a movie about it called The Help. You ever seen that movie? Yes. It was based in Jackson, Mississippi. Actually written and directed by a guy I went to Ole Miss with, believe it or not. And the movie did really well. And it was, for lack of better terms,

an expiration of the 50s, 60s, and 70s in Jackson, Mississippi of white, wealthy families having black domestics in the house. And what I thought was so poignant about the help is it dove into how the black domestics ended up almost raising the white children from infancy until adolescence because as many of the white parents were out doing their social things, the domestics would cook and clean, but also care for the children. Yes. And for those outside of the South,

they think that that is a fictitious, overblown thing. I have news for you. Yeah. in the South, that is his, had been a reality for many, many, many decades. So I think that sets up a little bit of a story because it wasn't just Jackson, Mississippi. Jackson may have been the setting for that particular show, but you can go Jackson, Montgomery, Mobile, Memphis, New Orleans, Birmingham, Little Rock, Atlanta, and just keep on going to the South. That's just the reality. Some would say that mentality is a little bit of a holdover.

trying to be delicate, but back during slavery, there were black folks that were called house slaves that would do the same thing. Yeah. That were picked among the slaves as maybe the cleaner or more agreeable slaves, and then they would do the domestic work in the house. and then they were also very involved with the children. And then after slavery and sharecropping and all of that, it just became a occupation by a lot of black folks. Did I do that well? I think you did it as...

Do you want to add to that before we go forward? I'll put it this way. I'm not lost on our history. I'm not lost. Oh, I'm sure you're not, but you've got to remember people in... Yeah. in Indiana and Michigan and Kansas are listened to us that think those movies are overblown fictitional representations.

And I'm just trying to bring everybody up to where you and I as others are. By no means, I'm trying to suggest that you don't know these things. No. I've been called the... Don't go there yet. Don't go there yet. I'm trying to set the stage, and I'm just asking it the way I set the stage. No, you're fine.

In your viewpoint, is accurate. From a black perspective, I want to hear if I'm crazy about what I'm saying. Well, this is the reality of what went on during those times. This is how my grandmother was a house domesticated worker. A maid. Yes, because of her skin color. You know, she was light enough to go in the house and to fold the sheets and to lay out. Light skin.

Light complexion. Not everybody's from the South, light-skinned enough. Yes, she was light-skinned enough to work in the kitchen and in the house. She was, quote, agreeable. Yes, yes. So I understand it all, and I hope that your viewers or your listeners will, yeah, as well. Yeah. It's almost uncomfortable to talk about, but it's real.

Oh, it's the truth. It's the cold, hard facts. It is. About the South and, you know, what some of our ancestors had to deal with. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Meek and Tracy Taylor, and you do not want to miss part two that's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll see in part two. up a quick document with the basic business plan, just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks.

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years. That's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill him. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Join me, Danny Trejo, in Nocturno, Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno, Tales from the Shadows. On the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment

who risked everything to invent open-heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers, you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sponsored by Jasper A.I. AI built for marketers. I'm I Belongoria.

And I'm Maite Gomes Gron. And this week on our podcast, Hungry for History, we talk oysters, plus the Mianbi chief stops by. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.