An Army of Normal Folks - Mik And Tracy Taylor: The Faces of Transracial Adoption (Pt 2)

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Transracial adoption is a term that we didn’t know, until we met the Taylors. The black couple adopted 2 white kids and 1 black kid. And we have a fascinating conversation about love, hate, stereotypes, and redemption! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks, and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Meek and Tracy Taylor, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan. plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Edmund Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person, a billion dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking,

could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning. podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm I Belongoria. And I'm Maitego, Mr. Juan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things. Food and History. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster.

No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa esucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. It blows mexico. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife.

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your. your podcasts. Welcome fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me in Nocturno? Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America

since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network. Available

on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or Forever you get your podcast. It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like?

I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him. Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog

and I ended up inviting them over for food and that was like one of my proudest moments. This is Family Therapy, real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. Listen to season two of Family Therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the build-up and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding.

Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. get the big short now at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold so on occasionally not slavery i'm not suggesting anything about what i'm about to say but

occasionally going back to the 50 60 70s occasionally there really were places that these domestics and the families became very, very, very close. And it was a real good relationship. Yeah. The vast majority of it, though, was work. Yes. That's it. It was work. Okay. So with that mentality that is baked in to our southern beings on both the black and the white side, racism and prejudice, oftentimes takes more than one generation to break because even when somebody feels it, it is so baked into them generationally and culturally

that it's hard to break. And that's on both sides, I believe. Oh, yeah. So baked into our cultural experiences, all of this history, how does David know? David is nine. Okay. So we're going to go to 2015.

So with all of that, what is it like as two black parents of an adoptive white child in 2015 to roll up into Home Depot or Walmart? He hadn't been in our home. Not even. David, he. David. David, he hadn't been in our home a couple of hours. He just come into our home. I needed diapers.

And I needed milk. My husband was still at work. So I packed him up. We went to Kroger, local Kroger, and shopping in the produce section in this little old white gentleman has been in his late 70s, early 80s. You must have paid a pretty penny for him,

is what he said to me. Yeah. And it took everything in me not to rise up in that moment. It could be a teachable moment, or it could be a moment where I, completely go off the well, you know, but I did. I mean, I got to believe you got some angry black woman in you. I do.

I do, but at the moment, I didn't have enough bail money. I'll put it that way. You know, I didn't want to be on. Some of the stuff you said the prep was really funny. I was waiting for your sense of humor. There it comes right there. I didn't want to be on the local news as the angry black woman. You know, I built this whole persona.

I built this whole personality, and I want to stay in that place. So I chose just to walk away. And sometimes in life, you have to walk away from people and walk away. Did you even respond? I did not, because you're not worth my. Did you shake your head? I did. I did.

You're aiding. You're stuck in your waist. I don't have time to try to teach you right now in this moment. I have my child with me. Did he mean it? And I mean this. You don't know me well enough to understand my whole perspective on this, but try to trust me. Mm-hmm.

when I asked this question, did he mean it derogatorily, or was he just ignorant? I think he was ignorant. You see what if they see the difference? There's a difference. And that's why I said, if it were a teachable moment. But being new to this, fresh, I hadn't been a transracial. Two hours. Yeah, transracial adoptive parent. And you're 20.

And I'm very young at this time. I think it's best, like I said, just to walk away, you know, from some situations. If I feel like I can teach you about who we are, our family, our dynamics, then I will. You know, this 10 years later, I'll take the time. But I thought it was just best just to walk away. I don't have to educate everybody. To be honest with you, I'm not my job to educate everybody. I'm kind of surprised, he said that.

I would have expected more of, instead of, I bet you paid a pretty penny for it, my expectation would have been Whose family are you sitting for? Well, we've gotten a little bit of that too. We've gotten a lot. I mean, how much time do we have? I mean, I'm sitting at home. This is probably four years ago when we moved into our house. Yeah, just four years ago.

Yeah. Moved into our home, built our home. Beautiful neighborhood, predominantly white neighborhood. And this guy is there to fix our French doors. And David and Dylan, my youngest, are running around. He looks at me, he says, are you babysitting? Mm-hmm, yeah. No, these are my children.

This is my house. And you can now exit. That you're working for me. You can now exit because I no longer need your services. We'll find someone else to do it. Yeah. So, and this is just a few. Again, ignorance.

Yes. Or, or derogatory. Both. Because the ignorance is derogatory, I guess. Both. So we're going to get to, Dylan in just a minute. For everybody listening, why am I going into this? I really try not to sensationalize things like this. It's not the purpose of our show. These are two people. Let me tell

you a story. I'm going to tell you a story about high school sweethearts that everybody listening to me close their eyes. Really, just close their eyes and let me tell you a story. It's a story of two high school sweethearts who meet in college who get married and wait to have a child until they're married to do it the right way because of both their faith and because of their belief in the social construct of a family. And they do that. And they raise their child and later on in life can't have any more children. And as they grow in their professional careers, earn money, pay their bills on time, and do their right things, they build a home. And because they can't have children, they adopt a beautiful baby boy named David with brown hair and blue eyes,

move into their new home and start this beautiful family, the greatest Norman Walkwell, All-American Dream. And they're black. And the last three words is what makes you open your eyes. Yeah. We have got to come to a place that the end they're black doesn't have to be said or even matter. But unfortunately, in 2025, that is the part that still makes us open our eyes. Yeah. And why does that matter?

It's because it's this army of normal folks. And we talk about how our world changes when normal people who are unremarkable and just average folks like the rest of us see areas of need and fill them for the betterment of their community in people's lives. And if we had millions of people across the country doing that, our culture and our society change and we can fix so much of what else us. Well, guess what? Normal people are black. Normal people are Asian. And normal people are Hispanic. Normal people look like all kinds of manners of folks.

And candidly, what is the world normal? It's your own normal. And so an army of normal folks is about an entire community of Americans coming together and serving one another for the betterment of society. And we should not have to pause when those are black families helping white kids because we have gone so accustomed to the social construct that it's white people helping. the poor black folks and until we break that we will never be full right that's why i think

your story is so important because you guys and peter teach us a very valuable lesson yeah yeah i think um i think the problem is that you know we have to reassess what knowing is. Like, especially in America. Like we, you know, what we knew or believed to be normal is not always normal everywhere that you go, you know, in every situation. And this is one of those situations, you know, that what you would think to be a certain way is definitely not that way. And so I think America as a whole, and it could go broader than America. But this is where we live. I think we got to get a better understanding that it's not just about how you think. You know, it's not about how you were taught. You know, you have to look at the world as a different

reality now. You know, a lot of the things like you were talking about that were going on back in the days of slavery, you know, or even after slavery, those things, though there may be some, of course we talk about racism, racism and things like that still exists. But what we came from or where we came from when it comes to those days, they're much different now. Opportunities are different now. You know, families are structured differently. You know, the chances we talk about kids in foster care and how there are more, you know, where it was once believed by many of us, that there were more black kids in the system than white kids. Well, that's what was believed to be normal. Well, what is reality.

you know, because what often is normal to us is not always reality, you know. And so now we have a new reality on, okay, so this is possible or this is something that's going on, you know, in the world. There are people out there that are black. There are people out there that are Asian. There are people out there that are Hispanic that are adopting kids that are white, as well as there are white people that are adopting black kids. why can't it just be a world where it's just normal to love someone, opposed to being a world where, okay, it's normal to love this particular or this group should be with this group or that group should be with that group?

Man, I love it. I embrace when I see a look on an individual's face when my son run up to me and say, Dad, I embrace that conversation. You know, I embrace that look. It doesn't anger me at all. It really is a chance to teach it. It's an opportunity to minister. It's an opportunity to minister. And giving people knowledge about a situation, that's what ministry is.

You know, bringing the truth, you know, in a situation. That's what ministry is. And so I embrace those opportunities. I love it. I coach baseball, basketball, at a local church in the area. predominantly white church. That's only because, and the only reason we did it is because my kids go to this particular school

that's in this area. And so the opportunity was there for them to play sports at this particular church. We always want things that they do to be faith-based so they're always getting Christ in the midst of whatever it is that they're doing. I get an opportunity to coach and coach one of my sons' team. And people are out there.

to figure out, well, who's, whose child, you know, where's his child? Come on, that's a little funny. You know, yeah, but it doesn't bother me one bit. You know, they try to figure out, and then my son are going to tell you, Dad, Dad, you know, and to look on their faces, you know, it's just like, you know, but it's no big deal to me. Man, I like to think, I really like to think that I have cleansed myself, we all, I cannot stand the phrase I don't see color I think that's the biggest horse crowd

how could you not see color how can you not see color fingernails on a chalkboard I mean you feel the same line it's the stupidest phrase I get I get the well-intentioned meaning behind it yeah but it's still so elementary stupid exactly of course you see color yes yes okay it's your reaction to seeing color and how you handle it the matters. Exactly. If I were at a baseball game and I saw a little white kid with blue eyes and chunky cheeks, I think it is, a brown hair run up to your very proud black self and hug you and say,

Dad, there's no way I wouldn't go. Right. But what do I think, do, and react after that? Yes, exactly. I can't in honesty say I wouldn't see that. Right. I would see it. Exactly.

But they ain't nothing wrong with seeing it. In fact, maybe there's some growth in seeing it. Exactly. It's what you do after the home that matters. So everybody listened to us, don't think that recognizing the differences is sinful or wrong or bad. It's not. It's human nature. We're going to do it.

But what do you do once you recognize a difference that matter? Exactly. We'll be right back. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff.

I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to

medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. I'm I'm I Belongoria. And I'm Maitego-Mishuan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells and they called these Oster Khan to vote politicians into eggs. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way! Bring back the OsterCon! And because we've got a very mi-casa is-su-casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico.

No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be so forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive... how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife.

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the buildup and birth of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like

feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became in a Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, it is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the Big Short Now at Pushkin.fm.com slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold.

It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope. What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him. Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog and I ended up inviting them over

for food and that was like one of my proudest moments. This is family therapy. Real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. Listen to season two of family therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Threader. Oh, won't you join me in Nocturno, Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. And experience the horrors to have haunted Latin America since the beginning.

of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Vick, you actually had a post, I think, on Instagram. Recently, we were at the soccer game. We were at Dylan's football game one evening. We got to get to Dylan, but go ahead.

Yes, we're at my son's football game one evening. And I'm sitting there, and I can overhear two ladies that were talking about Dylan. He just made a play. And they were talking about his play. And another parent tells another one, taps her on the shoulder and says, don't say anything else about her. Don't say anything about it. That's her kid.

And they went on and on in this conversation talking about my family, my child, I'm literally sitting right here. If you have questions, she said, just ask me. Her response was, hmm, that's interesting. That's very interesting. And they proceeded to engage in this whole conversation. I'm literally sitting two feet away from me. I'm sure they thought they were white men. They were white, of course.

Just tap me on the shoulder. Well, hold it. You say, of course. Because that's where I got to believe, that's what I got to believe there's some black parents that are also going. I'll get it from both. But in this particular. setting, we're the only color. You're only black people there.

Basically. There are a few other. There are very few. Well, then that's why I'm more. Very few, yeah. But we get it from both sides. We get the negativity from both sides. But I'm thinking, we're sitting right here.

Just tap me on the shoulder. Just ask me. Instead of making your own judgments, instead of creating your own story about us, let me tell you. I can tell you a lot better. I've lived it. Yeah. And it's just rude.

Just talking about somebody in front of them. And it's rude. That's ridiculous. So, okay. So David was so easy, you decided to do it again. That's not so easy, but yeah. I was being a little facetious, I think. That's another story, too, you know.

So tell me about Dylan, how Dylan show up and when and how. And it's Dylan white or black eyes. I still don't even know. But there's a child in between. There's a child in between. What? Duane. That's Duane.

Slow down. Now you've got to catch me up. Yeah. All right. So the biological child, she didn't come out white, did she? Because that'd be weird. I would wonder. No, I would wonder.

He should wonder. So Taylor. Taylor. Then there's David. David. And then we get a phone call for a six-year-old, little African-American boy named Dwayne. Duane. Yeah.

And his case. Six years old. Six. That's a whole different dynamic than six-month-old. Very different. Six-year-old. Six. But he came in and we thought we were done with him.

You know, we told our caseworker, we're done. We don't want any more kids. And again, his rights were given up. You fostered rights given up. Mom and dad signed over their rights. They were terminated. And we, you want to tell that whole story. I want to interject a little bit here.

On Dwayne? Yes. Okay. We have to. There was quite a difference. In the cases. In the cases. Between David and Dway.

Between David and Dwayne. The background. Well, even in the background, it was the process of adopting the process of adopting it was easier because he was black it was a fast food is that what you're saying we i call it the fast food they it was they were pushing it was so quick him through opposed to where with with david it was delay delay uh even though it was because it was oh we we we we trans racial adoption yes i'm using we are we are very certain that it had a lot to do with.

No stone went unturned when it came to looking for a relative for David. Oh. Oh, they kept, I see, then we say no stone don't turn, not really looking at your lives. No, looking for any family number. They're looking for anybody that might take this kid. Let's send them anywhere, but here, you know, it's what we felt like, you know. Well, why wouldn't you feel that one? Yeah, I'd feel that way.

Yeah, and it was, and does that happen with white families for black kids? I'm not a white family We're not a white family We're not Well certainly you have friends We do We do Yeah and we've had a friend

That adopted a black child Well Did they go looking for a black Family member Especially difficult There's always The process where you have to look for A family member

You have to It's posted in the newspaper It's posted online You're looking for a relative But there's also a timeline Within 30 days I believe then it was within 30 days They have to come forward

And it was 30 days And then it was 60 days And no one came forward And it was 90 days And they kept waiting The status of the parents Never changed Yeah

And it was just like But when we got Dwayne Six months It was like Are y'all ready to adopt? Six months You know It was it was

Let's go Yeah Where'd you wait now? You know And so We felt a certain way about that You know And as a matter of fact

As a matter of fact Was it What was it we adopted Dwayne first. Yeah, Dwayne's adoption came first. Even though Dwayne showed up later. Yes, that's how much easier was. Exactly. Exactly. We wind up adopting him first.

Okay, so now you got David Dwayne, and you figure five's good, we're done. And then? David's biological mother, she was pregnant with another child. We didn't know. Time out. David and Dillon are biological brothers. They're siblings. Yes. Are you, I never got that. Maybe you told me I didn't realize.

For real? They're siblings, yes. This, I got, I'm, if the mics went on, I would say this different way. A woman had David and gave David up. Yes. Yes. And then has another child five or six years later. Yes.

Happens all the time. To then give up. Oh, you have no idea. Yes. Well, it was it five, what was it five or six years? It was two years later. Okay, I'm sorry, two timelines off a little bit, but... Mm-hmm.

Yeah. He had been placed in a foster home. The last names were different, so they didn't make the connection that the boys were siblings. Oh. So he had been placed in a foster home, and when they made the connection, they gave us the call and asked, did we want to take him in as well. Is he also blue-eyed and brown-haired? No, he was a little strawberry blonde kid. Oh, man.

Chint your power, baby, yeah. It changed. It's been changing, but... It must look like two-eyed. United Nations at your dinner table. Oh, my gosh. It does. It's very different.

All right. So you bring him in as foster? We bring him in as our foster. But now that David is his biological sibling, that one's got to be a little easier on the adoption side. It was a little easier. It was a little easier because the mom now had a pattern. And the courts were like, okay, let's just go ahead.

We see what's going on here. Yeah. And when did you adopt Dylan? Three years ago. Yeah, three years ago. finalized his adoption as well. So now you have Taylor is 20? 27.

27. She's 27 now. Then actually Dwayne is 14. David is. Nine. Dillon is six. Dillon is. Yeah.

House full. One big happy. Big crazy. Crazy looking. Oh, yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got pulled over.

I was taking a boys to school and going to a little bit over the speed lemon in the school zone. And the police officer pulled me over and he said, oh, you are carpooling, huh, with all these kids back here? And it's like, no, that one, that one, that one, they're all mine. You know, but carpool, house full. We had four and four years. Thank you.

That's a better reaction. Yeah. My wife. Oh, gosh. My beautiful wife. So she was 26 and had a three-year-old or two-year-old and one-year-old and was pregnant. Bless her and pregnant. Imagine, look, she got in Walmart.

Now, they were all the same color, but it was still like, I can't tell you how many times they're going to ask. Are these all yours? The joke I get is, you know how this works, right? Yeah, you know how this works. I have a hospital bed fetish, but we won't get into that. So, has the reaction to your family changed? No. As recently as...

As recently as what? Well, the last video that I posted with the football game. But before that, I had someone say, oh, I didn't realize that your husband wasn't white. I thought your husband was white because David is white. And because you're... No, we're transracial adoptive family. My husband is...

We're both black. That's the time we checked. Yeah. It just goes back to what we believe is normal, you know. And I think once we get away from assuming, you know, what we think is normal or, like, what our mind tells us, you know, what normal is, I think we'll be a lot better off, you know, ask the question. I have a question. Go ahead. That wasn't in the prep, that I can't help but ask.

And I think it comes from, you know, in second grade. having one dad and the fourth grade having another dad and sixth grade having another dad, I remember distinctly some of the questions I got coming up as a child. And they affected me because the questions themselves said a lot about my world. How about the kids? They have to get questions too. And how do they handle it? We prepared our children.

We prepared them. And luckily, I work in the school and know most of the staff, know the kids because the staff kids. But we prepared them. And I think they handle it really well. Kids today, most of the time, it's, oh, that's Dylan's mom. Oh, that's David's mom. Not even. The kids don't care.

The kids haven't grown up with those socials. So it's different for the kids. Yeah, it's different from the kids. The kids just see. Which is hopeful. Yeah. It is. It's hopeful. Now, I've had a different experience with some of the kids, but they're kids, so I understand.

Yeah, because they might just say something really blatant. I mean a daggum thing about it. Kids are very direct, you know. And so I think we were at the zoo. I went to the zoo with Dylan with his class, and one of his friends walked up to me and said, Dylan, is this your dad? And Dylan was like, yeah, how's your dad a brown in your? That's a fair question for a kid, though.

That's a fair question. Right, right, right. So I've gotten that a lot, you know, with the kids. But for me, it's hilarious to me, you know, so. From the kids, that is actually almost endearing to me. I love it. It's hilarious to me from the parents as well, you know, from the, from the, from the older people, not just parents, but the older people.

But not endearing. You know what? Again, you know, I like to embrace opportunities. I don't have a problem with a conversation, you know, because I feel like some conversations need to be had. Because if you're, God is love, and we can't keep love in a box. We can't keep God in a box. And I think sometimes that's what we do.

We keep them in our little boxes. We think that, hey, once we can't go. outside of this little square, you know, because if we go outside of this little square, things start to get a little cloudy, you know, so I want people to stop putting love in a box, you know, that you can love anybody in any position that you're in, rather that be a parent, rather that be a guardian, rather it be adoptive, rather it be biological, just love people, you know, just love people and allow the opportunity for someone, to love someone that looks like you, even if they, even if the person that's doing the

loving don't look like you. Just allow them to do that. You know, I don't think that's hard to do. We'll be right back. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks.

Hey, just finished drawing up that quick. one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Edmund Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO, Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before. for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game.

This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ibel Ongoria. And I'm Maitego-Mistre Juan. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things. food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Ostercon, to vote politicians into exile.

So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very Mikaasa esucasa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the El Golf It was for the Mexico, not of America. No, the America.

Or the food of Mexico, continue to be forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network,

available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the buildup and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception.

It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time.

The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at Pushkin.fm.fm slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold. Welcome, fellow seekers of the dark. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me in Nocturno? Tales from the Shadows. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Take a trip.

from ghastly encounters with evil spirits to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures and experience the horrors to have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal, Tales from the Shadows. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network. available on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's okay not to be okay sometimes and be able to build strength and love within each other. Thanksgiving isn't just about food. It's a day for us to show up for one another. I'm Elliot Connie, host of the podcast Family Therapy, a series where real families come together to heal and find hope.

What would be a clue that would be like? I've gotten lots of text messages from him. This one's from a little bit better of a version of him. Because he's feeding himself well. It's always a concern. Like, are you eating well? He's actually an amazing cook. There was this one time where we had neighbors and I saved their dog. And I ended up inviting them over for food.

And that was like one of my proudest moments. This is family therapy. Real families, real stories on a journey to heal together. Listen to season two of family therapy every Wednesday on the Black Effect podcast network. iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think it's only fair. We're not going to end on this, but we're at the tail end of it. We're going to end on something really cool.

But how does it come from black folks to you? Because that's from a whole different place that their questions come from. And it's only fair to ask that question. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I'll put it like this. We have had, or I've mentioned to my husband, when we brought Dave at home, family members who gave me the cold shoulder. You can tell, they didn't approve. They did not approve.

Yeah. And this is, I mean, you shake your head, but these are family members who endured a lot. lot. You know, we're in the self. They endure it a lot. I'm shaking my head, to be clear. I'm shaking my head because I feel that deeply for you. Yeah. Just so that you understand. Yeah. But. And so they've endured it a lot. They endure it a lot. And they're like, how could you? How could you? How could you? Yeah. Is it a, I'm really asking this. because I'm not suggesting, I'm asking. Is it a, you ain't doing right by your race thing? Definitely.

Definitely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. A part of my family comes from AME, African Methodist Episcical Church. Yeah, I know what it is. It's what that idiot over in South Carolina walked into. So it was a, how could you do this to us, you know.

To us? To us. As a people, as African Americans, you're bringing in this little Caucasian baby when they're X amount of black children in the system. You know, you could have chosen one of them. But that was... The system chose you. Tell that to someone who has never experienced a system, you know.

That was what? But, oh gosh, David is nine. That was probably... You know, it's the one we first got. Yeah. Yeah. So that was eight years ago. Now, the same person, every year, she makes sure she gets all three of our boys.

The best Christmas presents they could ever... That's what love does. That's what time does. More opportunity to change money. That's right. She's one of their biggest advocates now. Loves those boys wholeheartedly. We'll go to bat for them.

Anytime you need me to babysit, you know. Your family sits in the middle of an interesting dynamic where it has the opportunity to educate and open minds. That's right. On both sides of the spectrum. Exactly. The most important thing. It's the most helping people to love one another regardless.

That's the most important thing, you know, for us. And I just think that's a message that needs to be. continue. You know, it's a message that need to be continued. Utilize your life as a ministry, as a ministry to help someone else, you know, to become better and what they look like. Regardless of what they look like. No matter. Yeah. I don't think Jesus said, I'm going to disciple to these folks and the rest of y'all stay over there. Exactly. Yeah. No. Exactly. me. So if we're called to be Christ-like, this is it.

This is what it looks like in 2025. So you better get over your mammy talking selves. Get over. Yes. Get over. Get over. And the only people in the South may even understand what I just said. Oh, yeah.

Been called the mammy, been called, the sellout, been called it all. I was wondering, I am certain from a white perspective, the whole Mammy thing came out. I was wondering if you got called Uncle Tom's or sellouts on that. I've got a whole post about it, yeah, yeah, been called it all. But to live. But all for loving? Yeah, for loving a child, a child. Has it braced you?

It has grown us a lot. Yeah, I'll put it that way. It has grown us a lot. Now, I understand my wife, she's the one that's on the social media. She sees a lot of it. She tells me about a lot of it. Now, there has been times where I was like, give me that, phone let me let me let me let me respond she'd like she'd be like no you don't even know who you're

responded right you don't even matter so here's the thing y'all um hashtag transracial adoption how do you do the take i don't know how you do the say say the handle for everybody listening that wants to look in on this social media and see who y'all are and the amazing family that y'all have by hook or crook established they go to They can go to Instagram at Foster Wild Black Fam or TikTok, Foster Wild Black Fam. And to be clear, you get a lot of people supporting you, but you've gotten some negativity there, too. Of course. Of course we have.

Actually, one story of, I saw you post that Katie reached out to saying, will you adopt me? Yes. What? Yes. I've gotten, I get DMs. And I save the screenshot. And he's in the foster care system, and I just looked at his profile, and I can't respond because he's a minor. You know, I can't even say, let me speak to your foster pain, you know, but it's heartbreaking.

I get kids asking me, will you adopt me? I've had mothers who want us to adopt their child, you know. You've had mothers call you and say, take my child. Yes, I've had mothers to DM me. And I had to redirect them to someone else who was in a position that could, though honored and humbled by it, but heartbroken, you know, because it's only so much that we can do. And that's why we created the page.

Yes. In hopes that our story will open up for others to foster and to adopt. Yeah. Yeah. Is needed. Would you, given all of it, would you do it all over again, and would you encourage others to? Absolutely.

Without hesitation. Without a doubt. It feels to me like your lives have been enriched and fulfilled by. Absolutely. Exponentially. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

The journey was rough, but it was worth it. To have kids that don't see any difference in you because you didn't see any difference in them. It means a lot. It means a lot. It's a lot. It gives us hope for the future on that for me. Yeah.

Alex, you got anything else that I missed? I'd be curious, your guys' encouragement to everybody listening to consider adopting, fostering whatever big picture messages like that you guys have. Every two minutes, a child walks into the foster care system. Is that right? Every two minutes, a child walks into the system. In the United States. United States.

Wow. Yes. Over 20,000 children age out of the system. Those are the ones. I've coached eight, in 33 years, I've coached eight kids that were in the foster system. All of them aged out. And the statistics on the people that age out of the foster system are devastating as it pertains to drug use. jail time and prostitution and joblessness.

Homelessness. Homelessness. Also, sorry, I forgot that. That's the biggest one. Yeah. Because where did they go? Exactly. And they age out at 18, right?

At 18, yeah. My hope, my wish, my prayer is that our family story will encourage others to open their homes and their hearts to children in foster care. Peter said that he didn't know that black people, African Americans, could foster, could adopt. He did. He said, I didn't even know black people could do it. Yes, we can. Let's break that myth. You know, yes, we can.

Think about that. And they can adopt white children. Yes, yes, we can. They can adopt white kids. But, no matter. And happily. Right. No matter what.

Right. We just want others to consider it. Put it on the table. Think about it. have the conversation. It is absolutely true when you think of multiracial families. You think of white parents with black Asian, Hispanic children. Because that's what's on every pamphlet. That's what's on every website. That's what's on television, on Christmas cards. That's why Peter, ourselves, raising cultures, I am Barry. And I'm throwing out all these hashtags, all these names

of accounts on social media you can find. We're changing the platform. We're changing the look of transracial adoption because it's important. to know that there are others that look just like me, that reflect me, that mirror me that are fostering, that are adopting. Yeah, which is, let's be honest, if we don't view it that way, we're eliminating half of the potential families that could adopt. Exactly. That's stupid.

Yes. If we're going to be an army of folks changing the world, the army has to include everybody that can. Everybody. And we include everybody that can. What we're saying, Alex? One thing, we barely touched on with Peter, but I've seen you've kind of touched on it to me because there may be two million families waiting to adopt a child, but they almost all want to adopt babies. Yes.

And hence, all these kids are still in the system and your encouragement for people to consider older kids. Yes. The older kids need our love and attention just as much as the babies. Everybody goes towards the babies. But these teenagers who need family, who need structure, who need role models, they're the ones who are crying out for. it the most. Let's go out there. Let's research. Let's reach out to the local department of children and family services and see what need you can meet. Even if it's not fostering or even if it's not adopting these kids, you can always do something. You can support. You can donate.

You can sign up. You can volunteer. There's something we all can do. You know, they say it, you know, it takes 30 days to form a habit or break a habit. you know, I think if, again, like she said, if you don't want to adopt, foster a child, you know, for a small, short period of time, could change that child's life for the rest of their lives, you know. And so just using that, utilizing that as an opportunity, you know, to change a life, change the course of a child's life. You can have a child that could be on down, going down a road of drug use, alcoholism may have, you never know. But they come into your home and they see something. different for a short period of time could change them for a lifetime you know so go adopt go foster you know dare to be different actually one thing i see i saw you post about isaiah 117 house

yes who was in here ronda paulson did an interview with us oh really and even like on an even smaller level like with what she's doing like hey if the kids in that isaiah 117 house for 24 hours a week like let them see radical love while they were here exactly yeah exactly yeah so there have it. Mick and Tracy Taylor, brazy people who looked at the norms and said, we can break those for the good of love and understanding. And one more time, those who want to listen, those are listening that want to see in on you. Tell me the handles one more time. They can find us on Instagram at Foster Wild Black Fam and on TikTok, Foster Wild Black Fam. Y'all check that out and celebrate two extraordinary people who are part of an extraordinary six-person family

who are happy to teach and love and explain and be part of the solution to a very dire problem in our country. Mick, Tracy, honestly, so good to get to know you, and thanks for taking the time to come join us. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for joining us this week. If Meek and Tracy Taylor have inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action by fostering, adoption, or getting involved with one of the foster and adoption nonprofits we've

featured, or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks.us, and I guarantee you this. I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends, share it on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, join the army at normalfolks. Us, any and all of these things that will help us grow, an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do it you can. Malcolm Gladwell here this season on Revisionous History

we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years that's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill him. From Revisionous History, this is the Alabama murders.

Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Shearer.

Angela and Jenna Nick Kroll Jordan Klepper Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms On the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts

The one extremely fluid And common factor When it comes to war Is fear This Veterans Day The Good Stuff podcast honors those who've served And the stories

That remind us What Strength really looks like Had over 50 operations And had 23 blood transfusions We're talking about Resilience And finding hope through community and connection.

There are blessings that will happen in the most unexpected places. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you're high, you feel different. You think different, you talk different, you draw different, you listen to music different, but you probably knew that. Problem is, you also drive different and not in a good way. That's why driving high is illegal everywhere. If you're high, just don't drive.

Make a plan to get a sober ride. Because if you feel different, you drive different. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. I'm I'm Ima Gorgia. And I'm Maite Gomes Gron. And this week on our podcast, Hungry for History, we talk oysters, plus the Mianbe Chief stops by. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me.

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the OsterCon. Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.