An Army of Normal Folks - Nate Deen: The Teacher Who Saved My Life (Pt 2)

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

As a 6 year old, Nate saw his parents get killed right before his eyes. He was living out of his car and then in prison, until his English teacher Stan Deen decided to try to save his life. This extraordinary story is the subject of Angel Studios’ latest film Brave the Dark, which is in theaters now.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with An Army of Normal Folks and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Nate Dean and Derek Deener right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Lately on the NPR Politics podcast, we're talking about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools.

Take the department of education close it. Healthcare. Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept. We're going to keep our promises. On the NPR Politics Podcast, listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted.

But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God.

We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Snakes, zombies, public speaking, the list of fears is endless.

But the real danger is in your hand when you're behind the wheel. Distracted driving is what's really scary and even deadly. The fears is endless, but the real danger is in your hand when you're behind the wheel. Distracted driving is what's really scary and even deadly. Eyes forward, don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Mini Driver, and I set out to explore this idea

in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis, and former Prime Minister of the UK, Tony Blair. And now, Minnie Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests And now, Mini Questions is returning for another season.

We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to Mini Questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. I moved from foster home to foster home back in the 70s. It wasn't like, you know, every kid got adopted and it was a wonderful story and you could stay there.

You know, I don't even know that they like they have record of me being there and they have a record of me leaving there but they don't know there's no other information about visitors or anyone coming to visit me or any of that. Yeah. So I remember being at the orphanage and, you know, having to meet with a counselor, which I didn't know what that meant. Yeah. I didn't even know what that meant. Like N6, N7, N8, you know, because I wasn't talking. And I remember, you know, going into an office and they're like, you're gonna talk to this guy, he's a nice guy.

And, you know, having no understanding of what I was talking, you know, or, you know, even there for. And he would pull out this Hershey candy bar and he would always try to offer me like, hey, just say my name is Nate. Or, you know, what is my, you just say something and I'll give you a piece of candy It was like this bribery of like I had to give him something in order to get something

Were you talking to yourself in your head? Yes Yes, you were having you You were conversing just not with anybody else, correct Physically the words couldn't come out you couldn't come out. You couldn't make them? I couldn't make them. I could like- You really- so it wasn't that you didn't want to talk, you literally, physically, physiologically- It was both.

I had nothing to say because I didn't even know what was going on and I physically couldn't even push words out. I could- I mean, I made sounds or a giggle or a cry, but it was never words. It was never like, you know, I remember a lot of the kids at the orphanage spoke for me. You know, they saw that, oh, he likes pizza or he likes a hamburger or he likes a hot dog or he doesn't like mustard. And they would like if someone said, you know, do you want a hamburger or a hot dog?

They'd say, Oh, give him a hot dog. And so I didn't have to speak, you know, because they kind of learned like that's actually in a very sick way. That's kind of sweet. Kids are very resilient and they understand. And in the orphanage, they, there's a lot of like, you know, you want to get adopted. So you do whatever you can to make yourself look better than the next, but there's also a lot of resilience and like, they kind of understand that

we're all in this together and we're going to help each other in whatever way. Does that really happen? Yeah, I mean that's that's I really honestly think another kid stepping up is almost saying he's not going to talk, quit making him talk, but give him a hot dog and he likes ketchup not mustard and we're going to move on from here is almost kind of like big brother in it a little bit. Yeah, I find that sweet in a weird way. Yeah. And then, you know, being in first or second grade, I don't even remember what it was, but I remember, you know, having to go to school.

And like, you know, the teacher, the teacher knew that I didn't talk, you know, but I still had to, to write down things, I still had to write down things. I still had to take tests and things, which I could do, but I didn't care about it. I didn't do very good. And so again, just now I'm growing up going nobody cares for me. Nobody loves me at the orphanage. There wasn't Christmas and birthdays like you get, you know, when you're with parents and grand, you know, I didn't get a lot of things.

Even in the movie we talk about, well, what'd you get? Well, we got underwear and clothes, like things that a kid needs to survive, not things that they should get because they're a child. I didn't get toys. We shared everything. So if there was a bicycle outside, every kid had a turn on it. And it wasn't my turn, so I didn't have a bike. I didn't have toys. I didn't have those things. Did you have hope? No. But I think as a kid,

you don't even understand hope. I think about I when I was in second grade, I lettered in six sports in high school. I don't think I was really good in any of them. All right. My athletic director called me a triathlete because I'd try anything But even in second grade when we'd been through divorce number two Man I couldn't wait for baseball practice That was my outlet. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah.

So I had maybe not hope, but things excited me and I had expectations. Things were, there were at least things that I could find to immerse myself in to make me happy. Did you even have that? A little bit, because I started to become friends with some of the other kids. You know? Would you talk to them quietly? Not really.

Really? No. It was a lot of shrugs and yes and no. There was a little girl there that I would talk to, but very, like, I wouldn't even say talk to, but just we were able to communicate. Butter. She was actually the talker. She just talked to her. Like, she would just keep going.

Like, you know. Well, that's setting you up for marriage. Yeah. Oh, I'd be in trouble after saying that. She would just talk and talk and talk until I didn't need to talk. She entertained me. And I think, you know, it's not featured in the movie

because it's just too many things. But one of the cool scenes is that, well, sad things is that she I remember walking to the office one day thinking I had to go meet a counselor and I see her in front of two other people two adults and she was crying she was getting adopted she was getting adopted and she just ran over and she hugged me and she said I'm so sorry I have to go and I don't think she even wanted to go but you know She was probably also happy that she was getting a family of her own. There's one of the squirrels up a tree Have you kept up with anybody from them? No, do you wish that you knew where they were?

They don't reveal those names and things I only ever knew kind of first names and and who knows maybe through the movie someone will reach out and say that they're That you're saying I don't know in some ways Yes in some ways, you know, I Think of her being happy. I think of her and those kids Having wonderful lives and I would hate for them to find me and say oh, it's been a mess You know, I'm a drug addict. I'm living on the streets, who knows where they could be, you know? And so in my mind, they're in a good place.

Because the unfortunate reality is that's very likely in some of those cases. Yeah. And I do think that the place we stayed really did try to do a good job at that. But the 70s were a hard time. There weren't as many rules and things that they have nowadays with young people. But so then, I just remember her leaving me to, I remember her getting in the car and driving away. And that's when I first spoke, I yelled as she went, don't leave me. And everyone just looked at me like, Oh, my gosh, he's talking. And I kind of started slowly talking again. But I was

just devastated. I mean, devastated. The irony that the trauma of leaving you're losing your closest friend is what made you speak finally after trauma of losing your family is just twisted. Right? Honestly. Yeah. Okay. Very quickly. And our story as revealed in cinema, we find you sleeping in a car in high school. Clearly homeless, but going to high school acting as if you're just this kid in high school.

Somewhere between this orphanage and that point, what's lost there? Just briefly. Yeah, just bounced around from foster parent to foster parent. Do you know how many you lived in? Five or six. I had a football player for me that lived in 17 foster homes before his 18th birthday. Yeah. They always found a reason to say,

hey, we just can't have this kid anymore and take you back. How angry were you? Angry. I didn't trust adults. Because at first, they love you. But then you find out they don't really love you. They're not really taking care of you. And later in life, you find out that they were getting money,

social security money. But I was wearing shoes that were way too tight. Like I should have had new shoes, but I didn't. Just all the things that, you know, add up. And so you grow up at 15 and 16 and you're just like, well, especially at like 14, 13, 14, 15, I was just angry. I felt that the world owed me. I was, I was mad at God.

I hated everybody. Didn't want to do anything, couldn't care less about school, about life. And I decided like, I'm going to get a job because back then you could, you know, get written papers so you could work. And so I worked at a Wendy's and at 15, I think it was. And for a year I saved as much money as I could. I saved every penny that I made. And the day I bought a car and it was the much money as I could I saved every penny that I made and the day I bought a car and was the dumbest car I could have bought I bought a Camaro a 1970 Camaro let me tell you something right and 1984 or five I'm doing the math that's got

to be close maybe 83 a Camaro wasn't very dumb that was that was pretty slick it was a really cool car and I felt like it would help my my like because I didn't have a lot of friends and I thought maybe the girls like it you know I'd let my hair grow into a mullet all the things and I actually grew like six inches so I went from like being this nerdy kid to like oh my gosh this guy's cool he's got a mullet you know he's thin he's in sports but, I got that car and literally that day I like signed it, you know, got that car and ran away, packed just very few things into a garbage bag. Because that's what I had through it in the trunk of the

Camaro and ran away. And no one ever can ask no one ever came looking for me. That's my question. Were you in the same high school after that as you were before that? Did you change high schools? Nope That is not really Explained well in the movie, but as I was watching it, I'm thinking hold it He didn't run away and change schools He ran away and stayed in the same school. How in the hell

is somebody not saying something's not right here? And these quote foster parents when you hauled and didn't change school, it wouldn't have been very hard to find you. You're in the same school. Correct. Yeah, they didn't care. They didn't come looking for me because they still got that social security check. Which just reinforced your entire notion that the world's against you and nobody gives a shit about you. Correct. Because they didn't. Correct.

In reality. Correct. We'll be right back. Lately on the NPR Politics podcast, we're talking about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools.

Take the Department of Education close it. Healthcare. Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept. We're going to keep our promises. On the NPR Politics Podcast, listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric.

Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Estelle Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr. and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people.

So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's soundedouttogether.org, brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast,

Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers.

And so I'm, you know, trying to stay at friends house. Like I didn't live in my car for two years every night, you know, you know, back then like you'd go to a friend's house for like four days. Yeah, you know, in the summer or even longer. And then if a parent started going, hey, you know, let's, you know, let's call your mom or let's go I'd say, Oh, no, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever over and I'll be fine. And so anytime anyone's suspicious about anything, they're like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I'm like, Oh, I'm just gonna ride my bike or whatever. And I say, oh no, I'm just going to ride my bike or whatever over and I'll be fine. And so anytime anyone's suspicious about anything, I just lied about it and bolted. And then I'd stay with another friend. And soon where I had been working at the Wendy's was actually pretty far from where I was actually kind of going to school. And so these Camaros got like eight miles to the gallon. And so I couldn't afford to get the gas and I wasn't making enough money at Wendy's to kind of pay for the insurance and all of those things. And so Wendy's finally said, hey, you're not showing up here.

You know, you can't work here anymore. You're kind of fired. And so that was kind of the downward trajectory from there. Because- Because now you have your car, but no money. But no money. And I'm trying to go to school. I really wanted to go to school because I wanted to run track. I actually, you know, before I ran away, I was actually pretty good at it.

And the track coach really was like, you got to run track. I mean, you're good, you have the potential to really go far. And so I wanted to go to school. And so I convinced everybody, I lied to everybody, there will be people that will watch the show and go, holy crap, I never even knew that about this kid. girlfriends that will say, Oh my gosh, we dated for like six months. How did I not know this? Because that's what I did. I did whatever I needed to do to survive. I literally slept in my car in fields until the farmers would chase me away and say stop coming back here and parking in my field. You know,

I would find these dark places that nobody cared to look and lie to my coaches. I told my coach that I was so dedicated to running track that I'd love to run every morning at 630 to 730 before school started. And he said, well, absolutely you can. And that afforded me a shower. And there was a washer and dryer that I'll use to wash my clothes. So nobody knew. Nobody knew until like my clothes started getting tattered because I couldn't afford new clothes, you know.

But I went to school, I lied to everybody. I lied to my teachers teachers my friends. Nobody knew Wow, yeah, so You're alone you're broke you're homeless you're pissed all of those things. And unfortunately, while your story is certainly as traumatic as I've ever heard, those stories in terms of kids at that age being in that situation are not so uncommon that I hadn't heard them before.

But I will tell you something that is universally true about all of them. that situation or not so uncommon that I hadn't heard them before. But I will tell you something that is universally true about all of them. Those kids are angry and they look for something to get into to make them feel better. And it's typically alcohol, drugs, and crap. They shouldn't be into it. Is that your story? Yep. That's exactly where I went because sadly the only people that actually cared for me were the kids that were the bad kids the ones that were neglected They kind of understood a little bit of what I was going through. You know, I didn't have that is the crew that is also Rolling on friday and saturday night. Yes. Well because they don't have any parents looking over them. It's correct if

If you're 17 years old and you got all the there's a reason 16 and 17 year olds have curfews and no freedom is because they're going to screw everything they touch up. Yeah. And that's what I do. If you don't have it, you're going to screw everything you touch up. Right. And I had a car that needed gas. So what do I start doing? I start going to businesses and siphoning gas just so I can keep my car going. you know, because that's how I got to school. That's how I tried to get around, tried to get a job, tried to get, you know, try to do the things that a kid's supposed to do. But it's hard to go to school, run track and have

a job and live in your car. Like, just it's, it's nearly impossible, you know. And one of the scenes in the movie is, you know, I just remember going to this school and I had four races to do that day and showing up and running in the movie. We just show one race, but I ran four races that day and I won four blue ribbons that day. I won all of them easily. And in the film, you see me just kind of looking and watching all these other kids with their families and they're so proud of them even though they lost to me right but they're they're proud and there's no one there to say congratulations Nate, you know,

we're so proud of you. You know the coaches did and but that's not what it you know a kid looking for love is after you know, you want your coach to be proud of you, but you would also love to have a parent or someone that loves you on a daily basis to say, man, so proud of you. We're so excited for you. My freshman year, we were down six, nothing with a minute and a half left. And I'm telling you, it was a gully washer.

The field was two inches of mud. It was raining so hard. You could barely see the coaches on the sideline. I got lucky. Somebody threw a good block and scored a touchdown, tied it up six, six. I kicked the extra point. We won seven, six place went crazy. Nice.

Walking off the field after the coach, you know, everybody way to go and taking a knee and everything else. And back then, I don't even know if kids do it anymore, but you would put your helmet inside your shoulder pads. So the face mic was coming up through the neck of the shoulder pads and that's how you'd carry your gear off. And I just remember it had quit raining, but it was still filthy mess. And I just remember all these dads carrying their kids gear, walking off with their sons on this great come from

behind awesome win and I was alone yeah when I saw that scene in the movie it was the second time I really identified with you wow and I tear it up and I got to be honest with that in terror because didn't tear up because of you, I tear up because of me. Yeah, yeah. Because it was very, very real. I don't know if people that haven't experienced that can really feel it. I know they can empathize with it. Yeah. But I don't know if they can feel what it feels like to be a stud,

which you were, but in and be smiling and everybody patting you on the back and you're trying to put on this face of yeah, I'm good. But in between your ears, you're sitting there saying to yourself, why is it that I lack so much value that not a single person wants to stick around in my life long enough to invest in me? Right.

Yeah. I mean, that's exactly how I felt. Exactly how I felt. I hope when people watch the movie, they'll remember that. Yeah. Because they need to feel that. Yeah. Because when you ask yourself, why is this 19-year-old behind bars?

Why is this 18- old acting like an, why are all these kids that grow up in these broken homes, you know, what is this, how do we quote, break the proverbial chain and all of that mess until you understand the trauma that children go through that manifests itself in anger, I don't think we'll fully understand why we're filling our prisons up today. Right. Yeah. Which is where you ended up.

Yep. Tell us that. Yeah. Um, and so, which I never did. Thank God. And I didn't really want to, um to I just got in with the wrong crowd We were doing drugs all the time It was a way for me to kind of get out of my own head get out of NASA Yeah, I was a lot of acid back in 80s. It was yeah, we got ecstasy a acid now call. Yep Yep, anything that would you check all the boxes pretty much a boy. Yeah

There was a thing called crank back in the day, you know, gosh I mean it was just bad stuff, you know, and and I didn't want to do it But you know to fit in, you know, these guys had a place and they're like, yeah You can just crash on the couch. So it was a nice warm place So, you know if you fit in you kind of had a place And there was about four of us that kind of did that and And it was like every weekend, that's what we were doing. But that's not what got you in jail. No.

And so one day, we just were driving around, and none of us had money, and we all wanted something. And so we just saw this little electronic store and just thought, man, there's some valuable stuff in there. We could use a VCR. We could get some of those movies. We could get some of those things. And so we broke the window and ran in and grabbed as much as we could, threw it in the trunk and took off. And I say this in a weird way,

but I was thankful that somebody saw it. At the time, I was not very thankful. Not exactly master sleuths there, master thieves. No, we thought it was crazy. For the moment, look good, let's grab it and go. Stupid 17 year olds, right? 18 year olds and- With a mullet and a Camaro. Yeah, and it was very loud, you know, it wasn't like-

It wasn't like you were sneaking up on anybody. Yeah, we thought if we did it quick, we'd get away with it, you know? But, you know, a couple of weeks later, I'm in my classroom and it's in the film, you know, with my girlfriend developing some film and stuff in photography and all of a sudden the doors just bang down and the lights come on. All the imagery is ruined.

Everyone's mad and walks a couple of police officers and in front of my classmates and my girlfriend, they handcuffed me and said, you're under arrest. And I just remember looking at my girlfriend and saying, I'm not a bad guy, because I didn't believe I was. Right? I was doing bad things. But it was to survive, to be honest with you.

It wasn't like I was out destroying things on purpose, you know, just because I was mad and angry. Like, there was a purpose to get that stuff because I knew I could sell that stuff and get some money, you know, to survive, to get food. You know, I found myself a lot of times, especially in the fall, like eating corn, you know, raw corn in the morning from a farmer's field, you know, or tomatoes that I saw on the vine.

Like I'd go into a grocery store and eat as many grapes or something that, you something that people kind of just do for fun, but I was doing it to live. And so I did some bad things. And especially when you're on drugs and things and alcohol and you're drunk, you just do stupid things. And it caught up with me. And in some ways, I'm so grateful that it did, but it wasn't easy because it's easy

when you look back. But when you're going through it, it's like oh well I kind of deserve where I'm going and there's a an incredible scene in the movie where you know, I I go to jail and and they you know, make me strip down and and take that photo of you with the number and I remember them coming in and talking to me and say well, you know, you can make a phone call You know you get one and it was almost a joke to them like, you know, you can make a phone call. You know, you get one. And it was almost a joke to them, like, you know, because I kind of think they knew

I had no one to call. I had no one to call. So I didn't make a call that night to anyone. And yeah, so then I'm sitting in a jail cell at the back. Then it's a Lancaster County prison, which looks like a a castle for some stupid reason. It looks like a castle. And there's a little postcard on the inside that says wish you were here, like such stupidity in in like, a jail cell like, you know, in a jail that like isn't really about rehabilitating people, it's just

about getting you in and whatever. So anyway, I'm sitting there for a couple of days and I'm realizing that I may not be getting out of here anytime soon. And I was going to sit in there until my court date, which was months and months away, and then the security guard or whatever you call them, the, the CEO came over and he's like, you have a visitor. And I'm like, I have a visitor? What are you talking about? I have a visitor.

We'll be right back. Lately on the NPR politics podcast, we're talking about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? Schools? Healthcare? Follow coverage of a changing country. On the NPR Politics Podcast, listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your

podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones,

Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon. But we're also gonna have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?

Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Snakes, zombies, sharks, heights, speaking in public,

the list of fears is endless. But while you're clutching your blanket in the dark, wondering if that sound in the hall was actually a footstep, the real danger is in your hand, when you're behind the wheel. And while you might think a great white shark is scary, what's really terrifying and even deadly is distracted driving.

Eyes forward, don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. What if you asked two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis and former Prime Minister of the

UK, Tony Blair. And now, Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. This is a great time to talk about the true hero of the story. Yes. The hero of your life.

Yes. Really. Now I'm putting words in your mouth. I shouldn't say that. I think it's your life. Yes. The hero of your life. Yes. Really. I'm now I'm putting words in your mouth. I shouldn't say that. I think it's here in your life. So we're an army of normal folks. That's a show. We we try to produce stuff that's interesting and inspiring and in your case and lots of other cases, obviously compelling, tear-jerking, raw and real. Alex and his team do a great job

putting a nice product out every single week. But the whole emphasis behind the story is that if we're gonna change our culture, it's not gonna be fancy people in New York on TV. And it's not gonna be the people that think they know better than everybody else because they happen to get more votes. Right. It's just gonna be normal folks, an army of normal folks. I love that by the way, an army of normal folks.

That's us. Because that's what we are. What is the world, what could our world look like if we literally had millions of people across our country, simply normal people, not part of big NGOs, not part of the government, not part of some mass of, but just normal people seeing areas of need in their community and using their passion for that need and their ability and using their passion for that need and their ability to help that need and instead of saying, man, somebody ought to do something

about that, look in themselves in the mirror and say, you know what, I'm gonna do something about that. What would our world look like if we had millions of those? That is the army of normal folks. And that's what we talk about on the show all the time. As all regular listeners, the thousands of you out there right now, you're like, yeah, Bill, why are you saying that? We know that's why we listen.

Because your story is compelling as it is in a movie is awesome as is. And I really do want you to sell a billion tickets and, you know, Eric, I hope you can return a bunch of money. Those 44 people that you dragged out of their pockets. Yes. But the real reason I was really interested in talking to you is because I want to talk about your army member who is an unassuming, kind of goofy, want to be actor who didn't make it in California who came back just

high school teacher and some little school in Pennsylvania named Mr. Dean right yep mr. Dean who in my estimation it's probably the whole reason you're here today. He wasn't part of anything. He was just going about his daily life and he saw the need which was your life. And to me, that's what the whole movie is about is the movie of brave the dark is a beautiful example of what any single one of us in this country can do if we just have the temerity to step across that line and engage. Yeah, absolutely. So tell us about the hero of brave the dark. Yeah, the hero of how'd you meet him? How'd he engage?

I want you to regurgitate this man to us because he should be an inspiration to every single person listening to us because all he did was engage. Yes, and this is what I'm excited to talk about. I know, but we had to go through all the crap to get here. I know, I know, right?

You have to get through that darkness sometimes to see the light. All this darkness to get to the redemption Yes, right, but um, you know, he was a teacher at Garden Spot High School for 35 years rich, right? You know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Absolutely not. Oh, he did a lot with very little hmm I should probably reword that even more. He did tremendous lot with very little. I should probably reword that even more. He did tremendous amount with nothing.

He did it with himself as much as money and anything else. Before you engaged with him, did you just think he was one of these goofy old teachers? Actually, no, it's really interesting. I met him in the hallway one day. We were just walking past each other. And I think he questioned a little bit of why I wasn't in class. But he just said, Hey, good morning, Nate. He even knew my name. I didn't even really know

him at that time. It was before I started going to class with him. But he even knew of me, you know, whether it was because I was in track and I was, you know, you know, it was in the the Spartan News, you know, it was in the Spartan News newsletter that the school puts out, but he knew me. And I thought that was very interesting. And in fact, I took his class because I heard that he was an easy A. Because he never-

What versus class? He taught English and like social communications and those kinds of things. Speech was a big one, but he really engaged in his students. He made you participate in class even if you didn't want to, but he didn't do it in a way that made you feel shameful or not good or smart enough. Like he always encouraged you.

And so, I took his class because I needed an A in something other than gym class because I wasn't doing very well. And I very quickly realized like I wanted to listen to him when he taught. Was this great looking guy? Yeah, he was a pretty good looking guy. I mean, you know, older but... What was his draw? Just the way he talked. He was always positive, always uplifting, always joyful. He would always say, why do you guys

look like a bunch of zombies sitting in this classroom? You're so young. You should have so much energy. And I'm this 40-some-year-old guy and a 50-year-old guy, and I have all the energy in the world. Come on, kids. And he gets you kind of going. And just the way he was very engaging.

And you know, I can't say that he never gave a kid an F, but man, there were times when I should have gotten an F and he would just write on my thing, hey man, you can do better. I know you can do better. Like he didn't yell at me and say, man, you know, if you don't get your grades up, you're going to fail my class. There was never any of that. It was like he graded me on my effort. And so he would give me a B, even though I probably deserved a C or a D, but he would

give me a B because I showed effort. And I think that that's kind of lost today a little bit. You have to perform a certain amount of numbers. And there were times when I think a lot of kids got that. He said, I just want you to show effort, Nate, to show effort. And so this was before we really connected. And then I just, when we really bonded, the beginning of our friendship was, I hadn't eaten for three days. It was cold, you know, the fields were dry. And of course nobody knows this.

And no one knows this, you know. And I walk into the class, into school early. I didn't have a lot of energy to run track that morning just because I hadn't eaten literally in three days. There was always this candy machine. You know, I remember seeing that. I'm sorry I got to interrupt you. What about lunch, school lunch? Nope.

Not then. You had to sign up for a free lunch, which means that your guardians had to approve it. And if I did that, I would have been in trouble. So you could get the free lunch if your guardian signed it, otherwise you just brought your lunch. Correct. You had nothing to bring, and you had no guardian to sign.

Correct. So the system didn't fit the bring and you had no guardian to sign. Correct. So the system didn't fit the guy sleeping in his car going to school. Correct. Okay. And if anyone found out, where do you think I would have gone? Back to the system. Yeah. And that's...

You would rather have your freedom and starving than that. Correct. Which I ought to tell you, how about that? Must have been. And, you know, I became the guy that was always like, hey, you gonna eat that? Hey, you gonna eat that? how about that. Must have been. You know, I became the guy that was always like, hey, you gonna eat that? Hey, you gonna eat that? I would literally go around to people's, you know, and so then people started avoiding me and whatnot.

And some people were just generous for whatever. But so I hadn't eaten, there's this vending machine and I'm banging on it trying to get something to fall. I check to see if there's any money in there kind of thing. And nothing happened. And he just happened to be walking into his classroom and he saw me. He didn't yell at me. He didn't, you know, say, hey, stop doing that or anything. He just kind of went back into his classroom and I decided, you know what, I'm really tired. I just want

to sit down. I'm going to go into, I saw him go in there and you know, I've got 20 minutes. I'm just going to sit in my classroom, put my head down and kind of take a nap. And I walk in and he's like, good morning, Nate. And he's all chipper. And I was like, Yeah, good morning, Mr. Dean. Last thing I needed, you know. And so I sit down at my desk, and I'm just about ready to put my head down just kind of wait for the rest of the kids to come. And, you know, he comes marching over to my desk and he's all happy and I was like, what is going on? And he says to me,

on behalf of the Spartan Social Committee, which there is none, I award you this giant Hershey's bar. And I mean, it was a big like the king size Hershey bar. And I mean, it was a big, like the king-size Hershey bar. And I was like, really? Like, what is going on here? And because I thought it was some sort of award thing, I took that candy bar, right? If he would have just said, here's a candy bar, I probably wouldn't have taken it. But, and he kind of knew that.

He's like, he probably, like if I offer it to him as like an award, you won this, right? No, good, yeah know on this right you know you know so he kind of felt like he had to do that which is kind of funny and quirky and I took that candy bar and can I say it was the best Hershey chocolate bar I ever ever is that was you know and I still eat them almost every day I love them like I didn't bring my bag but I have five of them in there like I love them. Like, I didn't bring my bag, but I have five of them in there, like I'm not kidding, like I have stock in her.

She like, they're just like so incredible. You're from Pennsylvania, that's what you're supposed to be. So that was kind of like, I call it, and then you know, he just sat back down, and you know, the rest of the class came in and we started class, and I ate that chocolate bar, I think before class even started like the whole thing. But I call that the kind of the planting of seed of hope in my life.

I didn't know it then. I don't even think he knew what that meant. But that small act of kindness, right? That back then it was like a dollar candy bar that he gave up because he would have probably eaten it later that day himself. But him giving me that was that that mark of the beginning of hope in my life. And that's incredible. We'll be right back. Lately on the NPR Politics podcast, we're talking about a big question.

How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy, schools, healthcare, follow coverage of keep our promise. On the NPR politics podcast, listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's,

to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well.

I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Snakes, zombies, sharks, heights, speaking in public, the list of fears is endless. But while you're clutching your blanket in the dark, wondering if that sound in the hall was actually a footstep, the real danger is in your hand, when you're behind the wheel. And while you might think a great white shark is scary, what's really terrifying and even deadly

is distracted driving. Eyes forward, don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. What if you asked two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends,

EGOT winner Viola Davis, and former Prime Minister of the UK, Tony Blair. And now, Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Roweowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini

questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. So you get called in jail to a visitor. And I would imagine maybe you're thinking, oh my gosh, does the system know what's up? What's going on? You're thinking what jack am I gonna have to talk to at this point? Yeah, we don't even portray that in this part in the film, because what actually happened

is they came and said, you need to go, there's a visitor for you. And that's exactly what I was thinking. And I said, I don't want to, I'm not gonna, I bet it's not the movie. I'm just saying psyche wise. I would think you'd be like I had nobody to call Right like there's no one good gonna be coming to see there's Nothing is going to come good from this thought. I thought maybe a lawyer, but I'm not affording a lawyer, right? So I actually said no I'm not going in and the the guy like the the guard turned around and started walking away and my bunkmate like kicked me Like literally kicked my bed and he's like dude, you can get out of this cell

for like a half an hour, just do it. I don't care if it's a lawyer, I don't care who it is, just go do it. And so I did. I was like, yo, I'm good, let's go. Let me get out, let me go. And you know, it's that classic, you know. How old were you?

I had just turned 18. Oh gosh, so you're, even though you're in high school, you're an adult according to the law at this point. Yes. All right, so you got out of the hallway, you plop down, and here's goofball candy bar teacher guy. Yeah, across the plexiglass with the phone, and it was almost a joke,

because he didn't understand how it all worked. And we don't really get into that in the film, because you just don't need it. But we're finally connected, and I'm like you are you here to yell at me? Mr Dean because that's what I thought he was gonna do like what else would I expect? And he's like no no, I'm here to help you like you don't you don't you don't deserve to be here Like he knew that I wasn't a bad kid. There's something going on and he wanted to get to the bottom of it. And so I gave him just enough information to get

help. I told him where my grandmother used to live when I was younger and he reached out to them and was able to get me out. So not your grandparents, but your teacher, your normal dude showed up, got you out. Your grandparents posted bail and came and got you. That had to have been weird too because it was the same people that dropped you off 15 years ago who said, it's not your fault. Good luck. And now you're with them yeah I was watching the movie

thinking what is going on between his ears I mean and the movie can't tell us that but you had to been uncomfortable at the very least but all the way up to just like maybe you are my grandparents by blood, but I just don't even want to be around you people either. Yeah. Well, I was, I don't know. I'm just curious. I was thankful to be out of prison.

So that was nice. I get that. And with some family members that I kind of remembered, I didn't really remember them very well. I get it. You know, they had aged much more. It had been 15 years or so that I had seen them. So you know. But they were also in denial about the truth of their daughter's death. Yeah.

I mean, the whole thing just feels like you're entering more trauma. Yeah. Frankly. Yeah. And basically that's what I had to do. I had to basically work for him, my grandfather to pay back that bail. So I didn't physically give them money, but I worked for it. I helped him clean things. I helped them, you know, did what you would have parents have made you pay off. Yeah. Through labor, you know, did so your grandparents have made you pay off. Yeah through labor, you know, I get it Listen man, I again I'm not trying to rail but I've been through a bunch of it too, and I'm just telling you Maybe it's not even meant to be part of the storyline and And maybe it's just because of my perspective, but I'm sitting there watching you earn back your bail being told you're not going back to school.

Who cares if you graduate? Most important thing here is you work to pay us back for the bail. And I'm thinking, this is your grandson. I mean, it honestly seemed pissed me off. Yeah. And I'm not sure if many people will get that, but I did. That's what I got from it. I mean, so I'm just curious.

I want to know how you felt. Yeah, I was still lost and going, why am I back with these people that gave me up earlier? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so thankfully Stan comes and visits again and says, do you need to get back in school? Mr. Dean, Stan Dean. Yeah, Mr. Dean. Yeah, he comes back.

Which is crazy. Now he tracks you down at the grandparents' house because you're not back in school. Correct. And he's thinking, I got the kid out of jail. Why isn't he back in school, right? So now he searches you out a second time. Yep, and a second time. Yeah this man Searches for you. Correct and didn't need to see there's this overriding Subtext theme to me about somebody who loves you unconditionally always searching for you. Yes. And a much more magnanimous vision of that. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean. To me that's been Christ-like. Absolutely. Yeah, he lived it. He lived it. And for him to show up again, and I didn't go with him at that moment because I didn't know what to do, but he left me his phone number, his home phone number, and said, if you need something, anything, just call me. And it wasn't long after that, that I decided, man, if I stay in this situation, I may not get to be the person I think I can be. I want to go back to school. As hard as I knew it was going to be, I wanted to run track. I wanted to finish out the season. I wanted to do all of those things. And I just remember like that was kind of the deciding moment in my life that I said I needed to change too. That I was going to try to do better. And so I picked up the phone and I called and it rang and it rang and it rang and thankfully, you know, it went to a voicemail and I left the message for him. And I just said, this is Nate. And I could use your help.

And it was like two days later, like that weekend he came. I mean, it might've been the next day, I don't know, but it was very soon, very quickly. Took you to his home. He came and said, hey, would you guys mind if I get him back in school? And my grandparents were like, well, he's going to have to go closer to the school. We're too far away.

And he said, well, what if he stays with me this weekend and we'll find somewhere that he can stay? We'll get him back in school. And they said, OK. And so I packed my stuff up and he shows up and left again. And yeah, so jumped in his car and that really started the change. So it was going to be the couch ended up more permanent. Yeah. I don't want to ruin a hole that was in his life that I think you filled. I think the movie, let's not spoil that for the viewers.

But there was a time that he left to go out of town for something. And you acted like an idiot. Thank you. Sure, no problem. I've done it too. Hey, listen, listen, young kids young kids will do some stupid things. And I didn't intend it to be a stupid night. Like I just-

It never starts out that way. I was done. I needed a couple of drinks. Those things seem to snowball as they do. My daughter called Lisa and I, she was 17. We have four. Oh my gosh, Molly. Yeah, of course it's Molly. Who else would it be? called Lisa and I she was 17 we have four yeah and said dad you know for my birthday on this weekend do you mind we had a pool do you mind if I have four

or five friends on us a Molly five Simply no more period. Right? My son Will calls me at 2 30 in the morning having chased off 90 people. And most of our wine glasses were gone. Stuff was broke all over the place. And Molly let it get out of control because of 915 she passed out and people just kept showing up. Yes, it got out of control. Please understand. I say it with as much affection as possible and I still have a little tick when I think about it.

You may not want to ever introduce her and I together. So the point is you did basically the same thing. Yes. Yeah. Had a party at his house. It got way out of control. People were bringing kegs of beer over. The one guy who cared about you's house and your repayment to him is let's knock it out.

Yeah I thought you know I can get rid of the beer bottles there's a can out back you know no big deal and then one of those kegs blew up literally like the top the top blew off and it just started spraying all over the room. How do you hide that? And so I literally got really mad and I kicked everyone out and they were mad at me, but I'm like, get out, everyone get out, just get out. And I literally kicked everyone out.

And then I spent like two hours, not even making a dent in the cigarette butts that were all over the outside, back porch, front porch, side port, like all like it was just awful. Broken bottles everywhere, beer everywhere, drugs everywhere, people on you know, just it was awful. And I remember coming up from the downstairs and Stan had walked in. And I'm holding a bag and beer bottles and all this stuff. And I'm like, San, let me explain explain it wasn't a big deal It was just you know, and he's like stop

Stop, I can't even look at you right now. I'm so disappointed in you and for me to hear that from him Was devastating it was absolutely over it. Oh, yeah You're a 56 year old dude and it still hurts you. That's one of the hardest scenes for me to watch. I wish people could see your face when you said that. Yeah, it's one of the hardest scenes to watch because I had so disappointed the one person in my life that was going to help me. And then for him to say, and he had every right to, he had every right to say, listen,

I can't even look at you right now. I'm so disappointed. And to me, having heard that from so many foster parents, from so many people, I thought he was done with me. That's a green light. Yeah, I thought he was done. I'm out. And now I'm like, man, I just threw my life away. And so what do I do? I resort to running, going back to my old self, going back to that party where everybody left goes to, you know, Johnny's house, and they're doing drugs and all sorts of wonderful things that I thought were going to just help drown it all out. And I took way more drugs than I had ever taken before.

I drank way too much alcohol. And yeah, that scene gets pretty, pretty heavy, pretty hard. A lot of amazing flashbacks in that scene that take you back and I kind of, and kind of almost put in the same position as my dad. You know, I see my best friend and my ex girlfriend, you know, together. And I'm not liking it. Because he kept saying that they weren't together and all of this stuff. And just the music in that moment is so amazing and so beautiful. And, and thankfully, I made the choice to just turn and leave the leave, which leads to the bridge

scene. So, you did call and he said something simple to you, which was, Nate, come home. Yes, come home. The thing I found interesting about that is he called his house your home. Yes. Nate, come home. Not come to the house, not come see me, not you can come back, but come home. Yeah. He really made his home my home.

He opened it up. I always say that I was the son that he never had, but man, he was the father I so desperately needed. We'll be right back. Lately on the NPR Politics podcast, we're talking about a big question. How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy?

Drill, baby drill. Schools. Take the department of education, close it, follow coverage of a changing country. On the NPR politics podcast, listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. podcasts. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Estet Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun, even though these days fun and politics seems like

an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr., and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on,

this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional wellbeing at soundedouttogether.org. That's soundedouttogether.org,

brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. What if you asked two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courteney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now

Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. I'm going to read something. I don't know where this came from. It's from Alex, but it's your words. I went home to ask him for forgiveness. It was my prodigal son moment. And yes, Stan was standing there waiting with open arms to welcome me home. Welcome me home. Again, those are the words you use. He told me that I needed to decide if I really want to change

my life or did I still want to blame my past? The world's not going to give you anything, Nate, you got to fight for it. My freshman year in high school, I got in a fight. I was pissed. My freshman year in high school, I got in a fight. I was pissed. Not at the person I got in a fight with. And back in those days, you guys will remember you didn't go to the prints. Not like today's world where you probably go get therapy and go to whatever. If you're an athlete back then you went to the coaches and the coach was a hell of a lot worse than anything they put you through.

You just know you're about to get laced up, right? Coach Spain was my high school coach grew up myelin, Tennessee, son of a cotton farmer. And if you will just think about a guy who grew up from age five on a cotton farm in a place called myelin, Tennessee, that kind of hard, tough football coach, but also had a sense about him that even when he was hard on you you knew he loved you so I sent his office fully ready to bend over and grab him and take whatever looks I was gonna get be told

what a piece of crap I was and everything else and instead he shut the door and he said are you gonna fight told I was angry. Oh, really, really angry. He said, what the kid do? I said, I don't even know. I wasn't angry at him. And he said, look, I know why you're angry. I know what you're doing with at home. I know which frustrations are and I get it.

And he said, but I want to paint a picture for you. And he said, you can foster all that anger and nobody can blame you because of what you're dealing with. I get it. And he said, but by the time you're 32, you will likely have some substance abuse problem or being alcoholic, you will have lost at least one job. And you will more than likely have kids out of wedlock or be in a divorce

Raising more kids in the exact same situation that you're in right now that you ate so bad. He said that's What happens if you are going to be a victim of your circumstances? He said or This is the part I'll never forget You can make a decision to be the rock that that dysfunction breaks itself on. I love that. That's what the words he used to me were. And he said, you're old enough now to decide,

do you want to be a victim of your circumstance or rock that the dysfunction that's making you so angry breaks the cell phone. It's really a defining moment in my life. When I read before watching the movie, I went home to ask for forgiveness. It was my prodigal son moment and yes Stan was standing there waiting open arms to welcome me home. That's unconditional love and welcome you to a home, which is something you never had. It's not the structure. It's the love that's inside the structure. He told me I needed to decide if I really want to change my life or did I still want

to blame my past? In other words, be a victim, which is what Coach Spain was saying to me. The world's not going to give you anything, Nate, you got to fight for it, which is basically you got to make a decision. I read that. And shuttered. Because it is so similar moment that happened to me and my wife by a man who decided to love me. What did welcoming home do for you? Man, I mean, I literally changed everything about myself.

Was it an aha moment? It was. I was at the lowest point of my life. That's saying something, bro. I know. Let's go back to the last 45 minutes. Eric, when you hear him say that was the lowest of the low. Yeah. How low is that? Yeah. Unreal. I'm sitting here just I can't relate. I mean, I'm empathetic

towards both of your stories. But man, I'm just broken for both of you of what you've dealt with. But that will be broken. Not broken. But no, no, no. What I mean by that is without all of that, we're not where we are today. You're right. Just celebrate it. Yeah, that's good. It's good perspective. You know what I mean? Yeah. But you're right for Nate to be in that moment to be the lowest of his life that given his life.

But I think it was, you know, just outside perspective listening in. It's like you've you've had all these bad things happen to you. You said this to me a lot of times. You didn't know how to deal with love And it was the first time you disappointed somebody that loved you. Yeah, you know I want to be clear We have similarities in our stories at points And i'm telling you about them because I just identify with it so much

I did have a mom that loved me and tried hard and I did have something you didn't have until Mr. Dean showed up. Because my mom fought like hell for me. I don't want to mischaracterize my life story. So even when I can identify with so many pieces of your story, I too can only empathize with some of it, as I never was homeless. And I never didn't have somebody fighting for me and loving me. Now I might have longed for the guy and I might have dealt with a lot of trauma too.

So to hear on balance that that was the lowest point in your life and you still had this man loving and fighting for you. That's why I was such an aha moment. Yeah. I mean, he believed in me and when nobody else had correct and that was what my mom did for me. She believed in me. Yeah.

He never judged. He always encouraged me and he tried to bring out the best in me and that's What I wanted from an issue something why you're not his son your kid that was in his class. He taught school for 30 years He'd seen a thousand kids Was it just because he saw that you might have been the most desperate kid that ever passed through his hallway Was it that he saw something in you? Did you ever talk with him about that? Yeah.

The why? He realized that if someone didn't step in, that I wasn't going to survive. I wasn't going to make it. He really did understand that. When he saw that I wasn't coming back to school, that wasn't going to be a good thing. He said, you can't be the person that you've got to show the judge that you're not that person anymore. What an amazing line. You have to show the judge that you're not that person anymore. And how do you do that? You've got to change.

You got to go back to school. You've got to graduate. You've got to pay your debts. You've got to pay your dues. It's not going to be easy. You've got to stop running from your past. There's a big theme in the movie about running. And Sam would always say, you know, especially about drugs, he's like, why are you taking drugs? I'm like, well, because I can forget about things for a little bit. He said, well, how's that going for you? Right? Like it wasn't going very well. I still was dealing with everything. It just, it's not really doing much for you.

And so, going back and writing that moment and remembering having that conversation with him and saying, just come home, right? Like I knew that he cared and that if I was willing to change, he was going to step in there and literally from that day on, as I was making those changes, and again, it doesn't happen overnight, right? It took a long time, but he never left my side. He never, he never, like, we would have the most amazing conversations about life. And he's not a father, right? But he understands what, like, he was a child, he went through, his dad was in a father, right? But he understands what a like he was

a child, he went through his dad was in the war, you know, he had some things that he had to deal with as a child. So he knew to just listen, and let me get it out. I don't want to overdo this metaphor that I'm using about standing. always unconditionally loving, always searching you out, the prodigal son moment. I mean, there is just a theme here. There's another Christ-like theme, which is forgiveness. And certainly when he forgave you for acting like an idiot with his house, but more importantly, it really struck me. And here's another one. It's so weird how many things in your story touched me personally, but the very guy who shot up the house, um, he passed. And when he passed, he was penniless.

And he had, in his older age, joined a small men's group in a Bible study. And they called me and I went and visited him two days before he passed and told him I forgave him, which was liberating for me. And then he died. He was cremated. His ashes were put in a box about the half the size of a shoebox. It was built by his buddies off some pine but he didn't have any money to be buried and we took him to where he was originally from in Arkansas and talked to the caretaker of a cemetery plot and he said look just dig a small hole over there and and I literally buried the man

Literally dug the hole and put him in it the man who almost killed me and mom But I forgave him and he allowed me to forgive him Stan took you to your father's grave. What was the lesson there? Yeah, so in the movie and in real life, I went to my mother's grave first, just to say, like, I really wanted to find her grave. Just to say I missed her. That has to be part of the healing process. You were never allowed to go through. Right. And then not in the movie,

just because we wanted to just continue moving towards hope. We didn't want to just take the audience back down. I get it. But that's why I wanted to talk about it. Cause it's in your story. Yeah, it's in my story. And then going to my dad's grave was with Stan. And what I loved about it was he just, he kind of stood aside. He didn't, he didn't stand there right next to me. He just kind of stood behind me as like protecting, allowing it to happen.

And I just remember saying to my dad, you know, I'm not going to allow what you did to me and to my mom affect the rest of my life. It's not my fault. It was your fault, but I forgive you for it, but I'm going to move on and I'm going to move on as strong as I can. That's what happened. I mean, I just literally said, I forgive you. What an amazing piece of mentorship by Stan to know that you had to be able to forgive your dad to be able to go on. What phenomenal emotional intelligence and awareness. Yeah, yeah, and he has, there's some things in his past with his dad. His

dad was in the war, came back and just was never the same. And I think there were moments in his life where he had to forgive his dad. Not to nearly the same extent, but just, but I think he had a little bit of that in him. Yeah, we talked a lot about that. We talked a lot about forgiving and not pushing past all of those hurts. I mean, we even talked about like, Nate, you're behind the eight ball getting a job. You have a criminal record now have a criminal record now, you know, you might have to shoot, you know, cut your hair, he didn't say you, you need to cut your hair. He said, you might want to think about, you know, you know, making yourself look a little bit more

presentable to, you know, when you go on, you know, not you look like a dress. Right. And it wasn't that he was talking about it, right. It wasn't like he forced me to cut my hair because he said, well, having long hair makes you bad. He's just saying, Hey, listen, you're going against other people going for the same job who don't have that. So whatever we can do, let's get you some nicer clothes and you know, and all of those things. And he basically taught me how to be a young man, how to grow up and, and, and fight for myself and fight for a better life. We're not going to talk about how the movie ends,

but one more thing, Christmas. Yes. Let's talk about Christmas. Stan loved Christmas, he got that from his mother. I love Christmas. Yes, I do too. I do too. Do you like Christmas?

I love Christmas. It's your grandest time of the year. It's Christmas. Absolutely, absolutely. Christmas music in September. Christmas just brought back pain for you. Yes, it did. How about today?

Today I love Christmas. Tell us how Stan revealed Christmas to you. Yeah, Stan loved Christmas. He had a tree in every room, just like his parents did. In every room? In every room, and I do to this day too. You're in the kitchen. I have one in the kitchen. I have little ones in the bathroom. And every room has to be decored for Christmas. Because it's a time of joy. It's supposed to be a time of

celebration of remembering. And yeah, and so Christmas morning, my first Christmas with him, I walk in and there's all these gifts under the tree. And I'm like, who are all these gifts for? I'm like, I'm thinking he's got kids or something, somebody else. And he's like, they're for you. They're all for you. I was just blown away and as Derek was saying earlier, I used to, I could start almost getting through the trauma and hurt but I didn't know how to be

loved. I didn't know no one ever taught me how to accept love. And I was very confused. I could not understand why this guy was giving me all these gifts. And I literally ran out the door. Hey, well, he probably should have told you that they were all from the what was the committee on the chocolate bar? This is from the so and so, so and so committee. It's not really Christmas. That would have been great.

And then there's this great conversation that we have. He comes and chases me down in his pajamas, in his car, you know, and he's like, what's going on? And I just told him, I didn't know how to deal with Christmas. I'd never got Christmas gifts. And there's some humor there. But really, he said, Nate, I just

want you to know that it's Christmas, and you deserve these gifts. These are gifts for every gift that you didn't get as a child. You should have gotten a toy car at age seven and eight. You should have gotten a Tari at 16, you know, or whatever, you know, like they were all of these things. Pong, for God's sake. Whatever, for Pong, yeah, Pong was maybe a little earlier than that. But you know what I mean? Yeah. Space invaders.

They would have made a wine. Yeah, for sure. In fact, you probably stole one of those at some point. Yeah. I was made. I was mad. You know, but to then sit down and celebrate that first Christmas together. And to be honest with you, something I just recently discovered was I found a picture of Stan sitting at one of his Christmas trees with his mom celebrating Christmas when he was like 35. And there was this big stocking in the picture and it's like Stan's stocking but on my first Christmas he had given me a stocking and

I thought he went out and bought a stocking but he gave me his stocking from his mother and I literally just found that out like a couple of weeks ago. That had to have choked you to death. It was unbelievable. I looked at Jess and I said, you know this stocking here that Stan gave me? I said, it was Stan. She's like, how do you know that? I thought he bought it for you. That's what you always told me. I said, no, no, no, look at this picture.

And there's a picture of him with his mom giving him that stocking. And I'm like, are you kidding me? And he never ever told me that that was his stocking from his mother. And I was just blown away. And so I still hang that stocking with the stocking that says Stan on it for him. But this past Christmas, I actually gave him back the stocking and I changed the names because I wanted to give him that stock talking back. We'll be right back. Lately on the NPR Politics Podcast, we're talking about a big question.

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Katie Couric, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Snakes, zombies, public speaking, the list of fears is endless. But the real danger is in your hand when you're behind the wheel. Distracted driving is what's really scary and even deadly. Eyes forward, don't drive distracted. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers.

I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courteney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis and former Prime Minister of the UK, Tony Blair. And now, Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson.

Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories, and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. If anyone listening to us now doesn't hear this story and run to watch this movie, to celebrate Stan Dean, and to then convince yourself

that regardless of who you are, where you are, what you have, you can be the most normal, unassuming person in the world, but have a profound effect on another person's life and change lives. That's what Brave the Dark is about. Yeah. Yeah. Brave the Dark is. Is so much more than a movie.

Stan is the true hero of this movie because he didn't want anything in return. He did it because it was the right thing to do. I'm not going to talk about the rest of the story. I'm cliffhanging it because I want people to know, but I want them to be able to experience the reveal. Yeah. And a real last odd twist of identity to the two of your stories. Derek Howdy. I'm 39. You were diagnosed with

colon cancer at 31. Yeah. And you beat it. Yeah. And you made a documentary about it called the day I became alive. Yeah. And the day of August 24th, 2017 was the day that that was my day you became alive. That was my diagnosis day. That was the day I became alive. August 24th is my birthday. Oh wow. That way. Is that weird? Listen, there's my birthday. My birthday is Stan's birthday too. Are you kidding me? September 11th

is my birthday, his birthday. I mean, there's so many little, this is amazing. I mean, September 11th? Yeah, that's our birthday. Are you kidding me? That's our birthday. And that's also Stan's birthday? Yes. And your birthday, my friend, is tomorrow. Yes, it is tomorrow. It is. I almost forgot. I'm a huge celebrator of birthdays. And I know Stan was too. And you have to you have to share the birthday cake story. That's what I was going to end with.

So, great segue. Yeah. But the whole point is. for you to have had cancer and beat it and have your rebirth day of August 24th and I'm reading this and going, that's my birthday after all these other things. I mean, I just feel like it's almost fateful that we're together talking about this today. There's just too many things.

I agree, you know, that's just another kind of pat on the back, I think, the whole talking about this today. There's just too many things. I agree. That's just another kind of pat on the back, I think, the whole way through this film, to say we're going in the right direction. God is with us the whole way through. And going through my cancer journey allowed me to kind of be resilient, to be able to take on a film like this and help it

and bring it to the finish line with the whole team. I don't know if I would have taken the risk as an entrepreneur before going through that. Nothing else really matters when you are just happy to be alive every day. It's like, wake up. That's the biggest gift. Everything else is just gravy, you know. What's it feel like to be able to bring, obviously, your story, but Stan's story? Yeah, it's... I mean, what's that feel like because raising money and you get the minutiae of the business out of it but

that's excruciating sometimes. Yeah. No, I mean since I was a kid since I was ten I've had a camera on my hand and always wanted to make movies and I've had I have a commercial advertising business I've done documentaries I've done other films with even with Nate but like this is the first big first feature film that I produced from the you know, from like, obviously 13 years ago was the beginning. But from when I came on in terms of the financials and all the things, and it's the biggest gift that I've ever been able to receive, not only give to the world now be part of the team that's given to this world, but it's been an honor for me to be part of this because Stan is a hero in our in our

community. You know, not only that Nate, like he obviously to Nate was the biggest story, but there's so many thousands of people that, you know, were inspired and changed because of his life. And so I am like honored every I mean, honestly, when we were in the like, in the trenches of this whole thing, and Nate and I would meet, I'm like, getting emotional, like, I think everything's falling apart. And like, I just want to I want to tell Stan story and this I want to help with this legacy that Stan had. And what he did for you and we would get emotional about it because like we didn't want it to

go a place that we wouldn't want it to be. And now I think we're just so proud that it's getting out and going to be in thousands of theaters and giving it to reach that it needs. And it's unbelievable. We're going to end this way. One last thing that Stan figured out to do for you, Nate. Just like Christmas, you never got a birthday. Yeah, not really birthdays are weird.

And therefore you didn't really want to celebrate birthdays because you didn't know how to receive birthdays, right? And so one night near your birthday, you're you tell them man, I want a birthday cake, but little did you know, he'd already bought one. Yep. So how do you make that work? So yeah, I said I don't want a birthday cake.

I don't want to celebrate. And he had this cake already, but little did I know that he went back to the bakery and had them change it. And so when I got home that night, we had some supper. And then all of a sudden, he goes in the kitchen, he turns out the lights. And all of a sudden he goes in the kitchen and he turns out the lights and all of a sudden I see candles coming towards me and the flickering of the light and he's carrying this cake. I'm like, I got mad.

I really got mad. I told you, I didn't want a damn birthday. And he just sat it down in front of me and he said, Nate, this is not a happy birthday cake. And I was like, what are you talking about? And I looked down and it said, Happy Day Nate. Happy Day Nate.

And I went. He had it changed. He had them changed it to just Happy Day Nate. And so I looked back up at him and I said, you are the weirdest person I have ever met. Because right, what would every other parent do, right? You're eating the dang birthday cake. You're just gonna eat the cake, right?

But then he said this. He said, Nate, and I'll never forget it. He said, Nate, I just want you to be happy today. So here's a cake. And guess what? I was happy the rest of the night. I didn't go out we just talked and laughed and he actually had some gifts for me and cards and all sorts of stuff.

And it just really, you know, just reemphasized how much he loved and cared for me and and just didn't want me to be unhappy. And to be honest with you, I haven't had many unhappy days since. Because every time I get unhappy, I even tell Derek, I'm like, even during some of the really hard parts of making a film, I just go, you know, Stan, Stan wouldn't want me to be this way.

He wouldn't want me to be upset today. He wouldn't want me to be angry today. He wouldn't want me to be unhappy. And yeah. If you think you have to join the army and normal folks, you have to join a big organization or do something amazing or spend thousands of money. And that fear that worry about your own inability to do that, to exact some measure of change prohibits you from even engaging. That's a real loss. Because Stan Dean shows us that you don't have to have any of that to make a profound change. And if you want to really see

what happens, Stan Dean is an average guy teaching school, who simply picks up the care for a very broken child whose life is now full enriched and whose story is now going to be in theaters all over the country. I think we all as an Army of Normal folks need to brave the dark. Absolutely. And I hope everybody listen to me will find Angel Studios latest film Brave the Dark. See the story

of Mr. Dean. See Nate Dean who you've just heard who wrote and helped produce this thing and see the work that Derek Deener did to raise the money to bring this story to you. We often talk about what's on social media and in the movies and hits their waves as such crap. And we just wish we would start producing stuff that you could take your family to that would be a redemptive and inspirational and mean something. Well, you know what? Here it is. And if you if you're if you're sick of all that divisive, shoot them up, everything else is terrible, whatever stuff. And you keep talking about wanting to have redemptive things out there that you If for any other reason to celebrate Nate's overcoming

so many obstacles and to celebrate a hero like Stan, I hope everybody goes see the movie. And guys, for the work you've done to bring it to us, thank you so much. And I'm really glad you came to Memphis to tell us about the movie, to tell us about your story, and to give us some color and some feel behind some of those scenes.

I hope it remains impactful for those listening to us when they're watching it. And they will support your film. And I hope you guys sell a bajillion tickets. Thank you. Thanks for having us. It's amazing. Thanks for being here. Yeah, thank you. It's a true honor to share this story with the world.

And thank you for joining us this week. If Stan Dean inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action by going to see brave the dark in theaters which you need to do becoming a constant in someone else's life like Stan was in nades or something else entirely please let me know I'd love to hear about it you can write me anytime at bill at normal folks dot us and I guarantee you this I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with friends and on social subscribe to the podcast rate it and review it. Join the Army at normalfolks.us consider becoming a

premium member there. Any and all of these things that will help us grow an army of normal folks. Check out army of normal folks on Instagram to pick up some normal folks wisdom. Thanks to our producer Iron Light Labs. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, find something you can do and do what you can. Lately on the NPR Politics podcast, we're talking about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? Schools? Health care?

Follow coverage of a changing country? Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon. But we're also going to have some fun thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee and Charlamagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about?

Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, and now, Minnie Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson.

Listen to Minnie Questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, Here's the Thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policymakers, and so many other fascinating people, like writer and actor Dan Aykroyd.

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone. You do three hours in the morning, you write three hours in the afternoon, go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours, you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. Listen to Here's the Thing on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.