An Army of Normal Folks - Officer Tommy Norman: "The Michael Jordan of Community Policing" (Pt 1)

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Tommy is the most famous police officer in America, with 2 million followers on Facebook and 1 million on Instagram. His radical and yet simple love for his community accidentally made him famous. However, that's not what motivates him and he's committed to staying in his same beat in North Little Rock, AR. Whatever your calling, his love will inspire you. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/support-1See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

3 Steps. If you can make it onto someone's front lawn, your front lawn is probably sacred. My front lawn is pretty sacred. I'm on their front lawn. They're okay with it. Next step is making it onto their front porch. You're sitting on their front porch even more of a sacred area. You get invited into their living room and their kitchen for lunch or breakfast or dinner as a police officer. On shift. On shift. Are you giving me good

candid yams, some Thanksgiving dinner, a Coke zero, which is my drink of choice. And so hold it. On shift, you would develop an office list here so they'd say come in and have lunch with me. And how many, if you see a police officer walking into a house? Yeah, there's something gonna, uh-uh. You're not getting ready to sit down, I have a big play to food.

That's right. You're usually getting ready to walk out with someone in handcuffs. Now, like I said, front yard first. Thanks, stems. Front porch. And then, come on in. You're family now. we're gonna feed you.

Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks, I'm Bill Portney, I'm a normal guy, I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in Intercity Memphis and the last part unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our football team. It's called undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on CNN and bots. Rather, an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help.

That's what Tommy Norman, the voice we just heard is done. He's been called the Michael Jordan of Community Policing. And Tommy's radical love for his community of North Little Rock, Arkansas, has led him to accidentally become the most famous police officer in the entire United States, with 2.2 million followers on Facebook and a million on Instagram. But as you're about to see, Tommy never saw a fame, and it's definitely not his purpose on this earth. Let's get started right after these brief messages

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Razor to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out NeverShaveAgain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's nevershaveagain.com. Tommy Norman, it is a honor to meet you, buddy. Thank you for being here. I'm honored to be here. To meet you, Coats, I really do appreciate it. And it's, I've been looking forward to hanging out with you and learning more about you for some time now.

And when I heard that Alex and the production team booked you, I was like, I can't wait to talk to this cat because you've got a screwless a little bit, don't you? Yes, I do. Somewhere. So, as you know, this is an army of normal folks. And there's not much. I mean, you're as normal as they come

and I want our listeners to know a little bit about you. So tell me about Tommy the young man, where Tommy come from, how Tommy grow up. So North Luterock Arkansas. Luterock is the capital city of the state around 200,000 population. North Luterock is just North of L Lurak and it's around 67,000. It's in the suburb, would you consider it?

Would you consider it? High end, blue collar, blue collar. So it's not a suburb, it's its own separate municipality. I would say blue collar, high end, impoverished areas, all that mixed into one city. Really? Of 70,000. Yes.

Yes. So born and raised in North Little Rock, Arkansas and six sisters and two brothers. And I'm the youngest. I have a twin sister. And Bill, for as far back as I can remember, my mom always instilled in us to give. Whether that was to give to someone that didn't look like us, someone that needed to pair shoes or shirt off of your back. Just to be nice to people. And I followed that model my entire life.

I learned from the best who is my mom and she's actually still here. Six, you should six. Six sisters, two brothers. Nine of you. Six sisters, two brothers and you. Nine. Nine. Yes.

Your mom's been given one thing for years. That's birth. Yes. Good grief. And she adopted one of my sisters Kathy. So Kathy's included in that in that six. So she has eight kids and then she sees Kathy and she had legally adopt Kathy. And but when you talk about love and loving people, my mom is just the definition of that. And I learned from the best and that's what I've been doing my entire life. So, I mean, did you, dad, did he make a lot of money? He worked in carpentry, kind of, you know, worked with lumber and wood,

and he was really good with his hands. He was a foreman at a construction company. I see. And he would go around and kind of check on construction sites. And he worked hard, really hard to help support the family. But with nine kids, I mean, you couldn't have, I guess you would consider yourself blue collar. Yes, absolutely blue collar. Yes, my mom, we didn't have a lot. She had to make, you know, money stretch, food stretch. But I mean, we've all grown up to be, I think, productive citizens back in Central Arkansas, and we've all remained humble. So, you must share rooms. Yes. We slept sometimes two and three to a room. My dad did add on to the house. Now, at one point, we had one bathroom. That's good. A carpenter at least can make the house.

So at one point, we had one bathroom. And, you know A carpenter at least can make the house room. So at one point we had one bathroom. And you know, you're taking turns. I remember by the time I got to the bathroom. How many of you were in the house? There were not of us in the house. With one bathroom. Until my dad. I had to get up at three in the morning

and you're ready to go to school. Art, art, art, if I was the last in the bathroom, you had all these fumes of hair spray and makeup everywhere. And so you're right. So get up early to beat your sister to the bathroom or you wait till the last. Yeah, it's spray hot when that out of your eyes.

Say you can breathe. I remember those days that hot when that will kill somebody. Graduate from what? Oh, it was old main, it was old main Hof School back then in 1990. And so 1990 I graduated and at the time I'm a huge Michael Jordan fan. Still today, love Michael Jordan. So I'm thinking I want to be the next Michael Jordan. So I'm dribbling my basketball everywhere, dribbling with my left hand because I'm right handed.

If I went to the store, I went the rec center, I've got a basketball. I would go out to Burns Park. It's a big park in North LaRocque. And it would be dark. So that's turned the light switch on to the light pole that illuminated the basketball court by Michael Jordan posters, magazines. Michael Jordan got a lot of my money back then.

It still gets something today. So when I remember I tried out for the high school basketball team at Oman High School, I made the first cut. Coach Gary Goss was going to make two cuts. I didn't make the second cut. But what was so cool about coach Goss is he knew how much I love basketball that he said I could be the stat man for the team. So I'm there with the clipboard, keeping stats, and I can I can picture this coach because you know when the basketball team gets ready to

run out of the locker room to the court, I was the lead man with the clipboard. I led the basketball team on to the court. If I was going to be the next Michael Jordan on the basketball court, let me be the best stat man. Let me be the Michael Jordan of the community. I wanted to just to be the best because to me Michael Jordan was was the best. He gave, his, all of everything that he did. My head is bald. You see a shiny bald head? True story.

Coach, true story. I saved my head today because of Michael Jordan. Because he pretty much had a bald head. Some of his career. So I think it's like, you're a huge Michael Jordan face. Not the biggest but pretty big. So did something in your childhood or did an occasion in your life, what inspired you to be a police officer?

Well, it's a great question. And I love telling the story. So my uncle, Don Wootenen was a chief of police in a small town in Arkansas called Hot Springs Village. Yeah. Yeah. So Hot Springs. That's where the horse truck is. Yes. Oakland. Oakland. Yeah. So Hot Springs Village is actually actually interesting side note. I think didn't the didn't like the Chicago New York mob used to hang out in Hot Springs Arkansas. I am very impressed.

Yes. Yes, I'm not a lot of people know about that. But I mean, it was like before Vegas, it was a big mob stop. And I believe that Babe Ruth even visited hot springs once. So, and I think there's supposedly canals or tunnels built through some of the mob built to

high struts and to shuttle around. And in that right, you're correct. You're correct. I don't know a lot of the history behind that, but that is accurate. That a lot of the mobsters were there. The gangsters and then if you talk about sports, some of the biggest sports figures stopped through there. Because of the hot springs themselves. Yes, exactly.

Because the water was supposed to be. Yeah, I mean, people still go today and they get gallons of water, they'll come from all over the US just to get some of that hot springs water and take it back with them. Some of the purest water ever. Crazy. All right, so your uncle, the chief of police. He was a chief of police in hot springs village.

And I remember one summer visiting my uncle, family reunion was pretty much every summer at his house and he had on this uniform that was no wrinkles pressed and he had on his shiny police boots any wore leather gun belt and anytime he would walk around or get out of the seat or get up and move his leather gun belt would squeak and I thought the squeaky leather gun belt was a coolest thing ever I thought the squeaky leather gum belt was the coolest thing ever. I don't know why.

That's a good image. Yeah, I know I think anybody listening can identify with that noise, that patent shiny black leather. And when it rubs on something, it does that squeaky. It squeaks. And anytime. It's always a kid you love that. I just, I don't know why today.

But even today, I can pitch him Uncle Don and he's not here anymore, but if he walked out and say a word because I wanted to hear that letter, Gumbelt squeak. To me, the squeak meant, all right, this is my uncle. He's a chief of police of this town.

It's a pretty cool experience to see him. That was one of the reasons I wanted to be a police officer. But I never thought that I had what it took to be a police officer. Because back then, all I really knew was police officers pulled people over. They wrote people tickets and they took people to jail. When I told some of my close friends and my family that I wanted to apply to be a police officer in North Theroux, some of them weren't as supportive because they thought that if I became a police officer,

it would take away what I was my entire life and that was loving and giving. So in early 1998, I see that there is an opening to be a Northrop police officer. Now back to encodes, it's newspapers, the print paper, that's where you saw openings of jobs. Now that's all lies. Yeah, the classified.

So I apply and not thinking I'd get a call. So, I apply and they call me in for an interview. This kind of resembles the interview table. I'm sitting here. There's three officers over here and they ask me a question, why do you want to be a police officer? And I paused because the answer that I had tucked away in my heart was, I want to love people, I want to care for people, I want to part my police car and get out of giving the opportunity and just talk to people. I want to get on people's front lawns or front porches

and ultimately going to their homes if enough trust has built. So the clock is ticking, it's quiet in there and I'm afraid if I give that answer, which I think maybe was a cheesy answer, they're not gonna hire me because they're not looking for a guy that's trying to get out here and care about people. So the answer I gave him was I wanna pull people over,

I wanna write people tickets, I wanna take people to jail. All right, that's the answer I gave him. Uh, 80 got the job. Well, hold on, so, so, finish that. And I kept getting all these calls, physical fitness tests, got a call, or a letter in the mail, you passed it. Background check.

Now, background checks for police officers, they talk to everybody, they talk to the neighbors that you live in next to now. The neighbors you live previously to, they talk to your job. And now they didn't do it back then, but I want to include this for anyone that's listening, not just law enforcement, but any line of work. They check your social media.

Yeah. And that's a big one. That's a big one. I talk to kids, kids I've coached, my own kids, that one stupid post can screw up a lifetime of opportunity if you're not careful. Exactly. And so at the time I'm working at Pinnacle Point Hospital in Little Rock, Arkansas, I'm a mental health worker.

It was around April of 1998 and I get a call. It was a police recruiter. Her name was Sergeant Armstrong and she says, Mr. Norma, we got good news. You've been hired at the Northrop Police Department and you need to report June 15th. So June 15th, 19th of the year. Where you do that, Flips?

Oh, I was so excited. I was actually in the gym playing basketball with the kids at the hospital. And when I hung up that phone, I probably could have dumped that basketball. I was that excited. So what about you? I got a question. Did your, was your uncle alive at the time still? Yes.

Had you spoken to him about what it was like to be a cop, what it was really like? I mean, if you're a, I would think if you're applying and you're really trying to be a cop, you've got this cool resource, a guy that you've idolized since you were a kid. Did you talk to him about it? I did. He encouraged me.

And I struggled with, once again, if I put on that uniform, can I still get out and do what I was raised to do? And that's part of that story will come later. But, so I was excited. So I called my friends, my family. Hey, I got the job. I'm gonna be a police officer in the city

that helped raise me. So, at the time, I was a homebody. I was married to my son and my daughter's mom, and I didn't like being away from home. So the police academy. Well, I just, I was, I don't know, I got homesick a lot. I just think because we were so close as a family, I was so used to being home. I remember I went to Nolan Richardson's basketball camp

a favorite Arkansas. And my dad gave me this calling card that had so many minutes on it. And my dad gave me this calling card that had so many minutes on it. And I maxed that thing out within the first day, calling back home because I was just, I was, I just loved being home. So the police academy was in Camden, Arkansas.

Oh, let me ask you something. Do you, there has to be a reason for that, Tommy. And you're right. And I don't, and I've been asked before why did you get homesick? Do you still get home sick? No, I'm good now Yeah, I mean with the platform God has blessed me with I've traveled all over the night. I don't get homesick I don't know if I was if I was younger I will say this and this may come off kind of funny, but it's not but my mom would always this and this may come off kind of funny, but it's not, but my mom would always nurture us even as adults. Today, if I told my mom, mom, I'm getting my T-Plean next week, she'd

want to be there at the chair watching me get my T-Plean. So I don't tell her when I'm getting my T-Plean. Nine kids and she's still, she's a special person. She is. And she's going to, mom, if you're listening, I love you. I think she's the reason I got homesick. Do you, I've never really been asked that question and have to answer it. But I really feel like that. You have to answer it. That's a prerequisite. I think it's a whole question. And I will. I feel like that the love that my mom showed us and she loved us so much, I didn't want to be too far away from her. You felt a real sense of belonging at home, and I still do. I'm still a mama's boy, 50 years old, coach.

Well, and the thing is, I think about, you know, nine kids in one bathroom, you're either going to be really kind and supportive and close or you're going to hate each other's guts, because that's a lot of selflessness fighting over just your little corner of space in the world in a home like that. What was the dynamic at home going up? Well, there were a few knockdown dragouts. There were, there was a few knockdown dragouts

but my mom had this brown leather belt. Oh boy. And I'm glad that leather belt went missing. I won't say what happened to the leather belt, but if you're ever late getting home, if you ever smart it off, if you didn't say yes, memory, yes, sir, and you never said, huh? You don't say, huh, around my mom.

Yeah. And she would whoop that. We, we, uh, not even but it would, the belt would come across your face. I mean if there was whatever she could get right Thank God we didn't call child protective services But my mom that's how we ended up the way we are today let me tell you something. I've got four kids They they are now 27 26 25 and 24 meaning they were one two two, three and four. Now, the wedding night, I'm, but they're four and four years. And I was working, growing by business, coaching football, and so I was 78 hours

week working now. When I was home, I was home, and I wasn't, I'm not saying I was a, a dad that wasn't there, but Lisa was alone with kids a lot. And with four kids that close to each other, you know, your mama had a belt, well, my wife had a wooden spoon, and my wife kept a wooden spoon in her purse at all times. She had three wooden spoons. One was on the nightstand. One was in her purse at all times.

She kept one under the visor of her car, and you might not like this as a safety patrol officer running around seeing people drive like this, but my wife could drive with her left hand doing 60 down the interstate and smacked kids in the rear back seat of a suburban with a wooden spoon and not vis-a-beat. I have seen my family drive up in my driveway and all four kids are kind of plastered up against the sidewalks of the back of the thing to avoid the reach of the wooden spoon. So I guess I could identify with your mom when she'd had enough. She probably looked like an octopus with that but leather belt. Well, you all scattering like hell too. And then I learned to put the book in the back of my pants.

But now you just told the story about Lisa. I think I'd prefer to let her belt over that wooden spoon. That wooden spoon. I mean, I could hear that thing slapping two rooms away. So yeah. So yeah. It's followed by some squall and by one of four kids. Yeah.

But at the end of the day, she loved this. And when we woke up the next morning, she loved us. And I feel like thinking about it right now, sitting here across from you, that that's probably one of the reasons that I didn't like being away from home because I just kind of so much of my mom and my family. That's what you're loving acceptance from. Yes. We'll be right back.

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instructors at the police academy one of my kids was sick. I lied. In halfway back home, I call my mom. I said, mom, I'm going to get a job. It requires me not to travel. I can go back to work at pinnacle point. I can be a mental health worker. I thought about being a nurse. I go to nursing school. I'll make it work. She said, pull over right now. She said, you want to always make your family proud.

You always want to be a police officer. You want to make your uncle Don proud. She said, you're turned around. You're going back to the police academy. And I did. I went back and crawled back and bad. It's interesting that you caught your mom and not your wife.

Yes, yes, exactly. A wife may have said, okay, come on back home. Right. But there's only one mom out there and that woman knew I was gonna regret that decision. And I went back and you know, the story now behind that is really, really powerful. I mean, that's a real turning point in your life.

Because if your mom had said, now, baby, I love you. Come on home. Your life's trajectory would be a hundred and eight degrees different than it is today. And I thought, coach, that if I would have gave into that home sickness and kept on traveling and not come on mom until the next day, and there's no going back then, you know, if I say, okay, I want to come back, they're not going to let me back at the

police academy. No, you bolted. Right. And I thought, well, then the next days and weeks when I didn't follow my dream and I see these police officers and these police cars. I'll see you in a minute. Yeah, I want to be in that police car. I want to at least see what kind of difference can I make in Northland

or I could saw with the badge in a police car and more importantly with the heart? You know one of the purposes of the show is to to obviously one of them is to tell compelling stories and hopefully over time literally build an army of normal folks just normal people doing extraordinary things in their community that maybe has an opportunity to change the trajectory of our culture today. Now that's a moon mission. I mean, this is a podcast where we talked interesting people and touching stories, and I have no idea it's going to have the legs or power to actually create a movement, but it would be great

if it did, and that movement would be shepherded by people like you and others whose stories we tell. But it's so important that people listening to us understand. When we're talking about an army normal folk, we're not talking about people born into wealthy families who have all kinds of advantages and have the nice suits and live in the big houses and and and appear on Fox and CNN and and and all of that you know because those people have been in charge for decades and I think we can look at largely their success in our society and say that their efforts have been woefully inadequate. Our government, a lot of places, that I just, I get so frustrated with all the power and

ability that ends up doing a lot of self-serving for them work and leaves a lot of folks wanting. So for an army of normal folks to work, we have to establish it's an army of normal folks. And to hear your story, to grow up with one bathroom and a mom who loves ya and a blue collar dad who, you know, the all-proud purpose, Tommy, you were poor. You just didn't know it because that's all you knew. And to hear that, that you wanted to be a cop

because of your uncle and hot springs and then you finally get the opportunity and halfway through it, you pack up your car and you leave because of your homesick. I mean, those are just real struggles, but that's what normal people go through in it. Yes, that's a normal dude. Yes. It is a normal dude with your own insecurities and your own homesickness and everything else. You saw how to dream, but you're still normal dude. And the point is, we all struggle with weird stuff. your mom who knew you best said

Pull your drawers up and get your back to camp exactly what she said and Change the trajectory of life because you listen to your mom to overcome your own insecurities I mean, I think that's a beautiful thing and I think it says it should say That's a beautiful thing. And I think it says, it should say, everybody listening this right now has insecurities because we're human beings we have them. Everybody has something they have to overcome. And sometimes it's just as much as putting your head down

and deciding I'm gonna hit this head on. And so that's what you did. And, quote, something else to add on to my home sickness was I kind of always question, as a police officer, can I even make a difference? No, because, you know, so if I'm leaving because I'm home sick, I'd already been questioning, you know, can police officers do more than right tickets

and take people to jail? And I didn't know yet because I haven't worked one minute on the street. So I gave into those insecurities. Into my mom. Yeah, you let the doubt, you let the doubt cloud you. So home sickness and the icing on the cake that night I started to drive back home was okay.

I kind of question anyway, is this occupation? Is it gonna change you? I don't want it to change who I am. My mom taught me our entire life, you better, not forget where you came from. So I had two confirmations in my mind. I'm homesick and maybe this is not what I want to do anyway. Because I may not be able to be me with this badge on.

Exactly. Which is what we're going to get to in a little bit. Yes. So I guess you turn around because your mom told you to and she's still how to belt at that time, even though you grow Egg she would have still used it. She was still a police officer or not. She would she would still let me have it And you go back and you graduate. Yes. And what year do you become a full-fledged Policeman? So

1998 Graduated from the Academy probably towards the end of the year then when you you graduate from the Academy, you come back and you train for six months with the field training officer. Meaning you're writing with someone and eventually they'll let you drive and they kind of monitor you and observe you. And after six months, here's a key, here's a police car, you're on midnight shift, your days off for Tuesday Wednesday Now I'm excited. I finally get to get out in the community and the police I have a question because I really don't know and I imagine most don't I've actually always wondered this

So when they say here's your key here's your police car. You here's your shift go. Do you have a Like a a set coordinates of a part of a city that you quote patrol, or do you, can you go anywhere? No, you're a sign what we call a certain beat. A beat. A beat? Sure. Yeah, yeah, a beat.

So, the beat that I was assigned to was the beat that I wanted. A gripping authorock. And it was what we called downtown North Theroccan. Some areas that are in povers, families that are poor, families that have really never been given a chance. I gotta believe that's one of the more dangerous areas, though. Yes, it's definitely not a walk in the park, but that's what you want.

That's what I wanted. That's what I wanted. But I'm a midnight shift coach. Everybody's asleep. I want people that are awake, people that I can interact with. So you wanted that, that, do you want it that be, but you didn't want that shift? With seniority, you're not gonna get the hours you want.

So, this is where I hope people listening to this pay real close attention because it gets even more powerful. So after a couple of years, I'm on second shift. Still not with the best days out. What time is second shift? 2 p.m. The 10 p.m.

Okay. Love it. There's cars, there's people outside, there's kids. So what I do initially is I park my police car one time aloud and I would walk different streets and talk to people. Some people would wait back, some people would engage with me, some people would turn their backs and go inside their houses. There's this new police officer assigned to our neighborhood.

What is he doing walking down the street? What is he doing wanting to say hi to us? I think the initial reaction of anybody is when you see a cop walking down the street, something bad's happened or about to happen. Exactly, exactly. And so I was a little discouraged, but I'm telling myself, okay, you finished the academy. This is what you want to do. You get back out the next day, in the next week and the next month and the next year and

I did. I remember one evening, right before dark, I parked my police car on a charged parking lot and I started walking. This is probably within the first five years of my career. And after a few minutes, I looked to the right, there's a line of kids on the right, and looked to the left, there's a line of kids on the left, and we're walking like an army, I'm smiling. I'm thinking this is working. In 2005, I'm a seven year officer. My shift ended at 2 p.m. By that time I was on day shift.

A gentleman in Little Rock, Arkansas called the police department and said he was urgent that he saw me. It couldn't wait. So I go over to Little Rock. This gentleman is homeless. He's sitting in front of a pay phone at a gas station. I sit down next to him. I'm still in uniform. Hold on. This homeless guy called the police and wanted to see you. Yes, but in Lutter Rock, I work in North Lutter Rock. Okay. So can you do that? Can you cross?

Well, I'm off work. You know, I did tell my supervisor, hey, I want to go over here and see what this guy wants. But I'm still in uniform. Yeah, still in uniform. I drive over and I get out and sit down next to him. And after five minutes of conversation, he tells me, he's a murder suspect. Inside a homeless camp, a week before this, he beat a man to death with a piece of two by four. And I remember seeing the story on the news

and they were looking for this guy. So I get on my radio, I call my dispatch, they call Lutter Rock Police. They're showing up within a matter of minutes. And one of the first things an officer said when he got out of his police cars, how did you find this guy? We've been looking for him. And he found you. My response was, I didn't find him. He found me. So me so they they lived him up put him in handcuffs A very peaceful arrest, but I could not let them drive away with this guy until I ask him this question sir You never met me before Why don't you call me to turn yourself in? He said he was afraid that it was so exhausting to hide from the police.

He asked another homeless guy in Lutter Rock. What can I do? That homeless guy, I don't even know who he is today, said, call Tommy Norman in Lutter Rock and you could surrender with dignity and respect. The moral of that story is my reputation solved the murder. That's amazing. My reputation solved the murder and it goes back to my mom raising me to treat people. I don't care if they were different color than I was.

They didn't have as much as we had. That was confirmation. Thank God I turned around and went back to the police academy. Thank God I followed my Uncle Don's advice. Seven years to just be a nice to people. Not slapping handcuffs on people or taking people to jump with seven years It'd be a nice to people took a murder off the streets. Well, let's that

The first fall it's amazing The probably the first murder case ever solved because a cop was sweet I mean that's phenomenal, but let's let's talk about the seven years that led up to that. And the ensuing years of your career now, which is the extraordinary thing that you have done is our culture today says that if you're, that's just be candid. If you're black or brown or minority, that, you know, the first thing you do is fear cop. You fear that badge, you fear that uniform, you fear the police, because nothing good happens with the cops. And so that has become a cultural thing. I have a really really good friend who I Coached um his sons and my sons came up playing football together and we actually coached their

like six and seventh grade football team and in through seventh grade actually third through seventh grade and he the in through seventh grade. Actually, third through seventh grade, and the guy played NFL, and he is now a executive with a pharmaceutical company. He lives in a really nice suburb of Memphis and a 45 hundred square foot house,

and his kids go to very expensive private schools. I mean, by all practical purposes, he's upper end wealthy cat. He's done really, really well. And he's black and his sons are black. But he's on the very high end of the socio-economic scale. And I asked him when his oldest son was first driving, you know, how it was going. And he said, well, you know, it's going well. It's insurance good. He had 90 wrecks. He's doing good. And he said, but I did have to have, you know, the talk with him. And I said, that what do you mean the talk? And he said, man, I forget your white. And I'm like, what are you talking about on white?

And he said, well, they talk about how to act if an officer pulls them over. And I'm like, dude, he's, you live out in the suburbs. You're driving around a nice car. This kid's got, you know, he's squared away. He's not, you know, what's he got to be worried about? And he looked at me like I was a fool and he said, man, to have worked so much in the inner city

and to be so in tune with what's going on, he said, it shocks me how naive you could be sometimes. That's what he said to me. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He said, my shocks me how naive you could be sometimes. That's what he said to me. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He said, my son's black. And he said, black folks, when they get pulled over by the cops, have a lot greater potential to have bad things happen than new white people.

And I said, do you really believe that? And he said, I don't believe it, I've lived it. And I'm gonna tell you, when I heard that, it really bothered me because I didn't believe it. And that kid, I've known since he was in third grade, he's better made her the my own sons. I'd have traded my two kids for that one kid. He was that good a kid, you know what I mean?

And I mean, he was a great kid and I couldn't ever imagine him being pulled over and being treated in a bad way just because of his black and then it happened. He got pulled over and it was near the school and my sons and some of their friends, saw them get pulled over and they pulled, my kids friends pulled over in a parking lot not far from where it was and they got their phones out.

And all he was doing was he took a turn without a blinker and they pulled them over. They made him get out. They searched him. They spread him on the car and searched him. They looked all through the car. They went to the truck. Asked him not if he had anything on him but said specifically where you hide in your weed and treated him with an assumption that was in nowhere near in line with who he was as a kid. And my kids had been pulled over plenty of times in our suburb and never asked to do anything but show them their driver's license. And my kids came home and said, man, it is different. And that's heartbreaking to me.

And with that story in my consciousness, what I will never forget, I think about a white dude who's a cop parking his car in a predominantly African-American part of North Little Rock and walking down the sidewalk. I get what the man did seven years later once you've established relationship but I have to believe that most people are looking at you like you are out of your damn mind. And none of them wanted anything to do with you because they're afraid of you, because of the reality of their experience with white police. Now, is what I'm saying true or is what I'm saying sensationalized? No, what you're saying is absolutely real life.

It happens. So I kind of skipped out on day one to 2005. Yeah, I was gonna go day one. It's cool. We'd jump around and- How did I get there? But I wanna know what it was really like for you those first six months.

Forget everything that we're gonna get to everything that's happened. Right. Because that's inspiring and beautiful and hopeful. But I'm just from from my experience with my children and my children's friends and what I now know to be true, that as a person who works in the inner city, I still didn't understand it. And I finally do, I cannot imagine what those people must

thought you were out of your damn mind walking up down the sidewalk as a white guy in a uniform and I can't imagine any of them warmed to you. There had to have been a first. There had to have been, you know, and I wanna hear about that. I wanna understand how you broke

through that cultural expectation that you were the enemy. I came back. When I say I came back, coach, is if I walk through this neighborhood today, I came back the next day. I think coming back and keeping your promise and being that familiar face is one of the big ways to kind of slowly but surely chip away at these barriers that are between communities of color and police officers and most specifically white police officers. And when I say I come back is, you know, you meet a family

and you check on this family every day. And then what do you mean? You literally go up and I'll come to the door and say, no, you exchange numbers even on your day off You call them. Hey, it's officer Norman. How's it going? You ask him you should call people on your day off? Oh, absolutely Absolutely we're family We're I'll get to how we became family, but you're family So you narrowed down to one family now I do things in the masses and big big numbers

But you narrowed down the one if you can change one family. Now, I do things in the masses and big, big numbers, but you narrow down the one, if you can change one family's perception of police officers, I think you've done a pretty good job. So, you wanna know where does a dad work, where does a mom work, how the kids doing in school? You know, did someone just get married? Did someone just have a baby, right? You don't just wanna know their license plate numbers

and their addresses on front of their house. You wanna know what's behind, I want people to know about what's behind my badge. I want to know what's behind that address on that house. What was really cool to me is after about the first year of being a police officer. So it did take a year? Oh, it took a while because guess what? That badge is not going to earn you trust and respect. It's not. It's not. For some people it will, but for people in these communities that don't really trust police officers, your uniform is not going to cut it. Your police car is not going to cut it, but your heart will, and you have to come back.

So after the first year, this one family, I get invited to a six-year-old's birthday party. This little girl, we were buddies, we became friends, but guess what? I said yes to the invitation. You think I wore my uniform? No, I don't want people just to see me in my uniform. I wore a pair of Levi's and a button-down shirt, and I had the best time.

You talked to what's your birthday party like at their house, or something? Yeah, it was at their house. And if a police... And in your beat. In my beat. But let me say this, there were people looking at me because first of all, Officer Norman

showed up at a birthday party in blue jeans and a button-down shirt. And just like you talked about coach, I've been to multiple birthday parties now, visits to children's hospitals. I've been to weddings, spoken a few funerals. They forget when you actually wear your uniform to one of these places.

You're still a police officer officer, Norman. And you talked about so instead of seeing the badge first, now they see Tommy. And that was my goal. That has been my goal since day one. And I don't wanna say no to all these invitations you get, I think as a police officer, you need to honor most of those because if you go above and beyond

and you're showing up at Bertha parties and people are sick and they want you there, that is a humbling and a huge privilege. Have you ever pulled up, in those early years, you ever pulled up on kids and they just run off? Yes, run, run from you. What was your kids and they just run off? Yes, run. Run from you. What was your reaction to that?

First of all, chase them. Really? I mean, if they're running from you for a reason, I didn't know exactly what you were talking about, but no, as far as I'm specifically, you mean as far as kids being scared? Okay. Yeah, so I have another story.

I'm getting excited, I need to slow down. So there's a story of a young man in his siblings that are at a playground and they see me coming and they run inside their apartment, public housing. And I see the door that this young man goes in. When you say young man age, eight or nine, okay, yes, they bolt to their apartment and they got in that back door fast. Now, you know why? They've been taught when they see the cops

to haul out properly. So I see the door, I get out of my police car and I knock on the door, it's a metal door. So it's a loud knock. And the mom comes to the door, is everything okay, officer Norman? Not really, because I'm driving down the street and your kids run into their apartment and I just want to know why. And she called the kids.

You just said why? Yeah, I just want to know why. Not an accusing one. No, you really wanted to. And I told her that they haven't done anything wrong. And she called them. They were four kids. She called them up to the door and Officer, I Officer wants to know why you ran from him and they're scared of police officers That bothered me that bothered me because I want thing to run my go has been my entire career is I want kids to run to my police car Not run from my police car Now what could I've done? I could have kept driving. Oh, those kids ran for me. I don't know why, but I stopped.

It helped that I saw what apartment they went in and they told me. They kept it as real as they could as kids. We're scared of police officers. So I made it a point to, what did you say to them? Did you say, did you, I mean, I can imagine kneeling down, getting on one knee on their level and look at them at the eye and say,

Hey, I'm Officer Norman and don't be afraid of me. I'm here for you. I mean, what did you say? It's one thing to say that, but it's another thing to show that, improve that. So I Remember the address and I kept coming back and visiting the kids Whenever they saw something about kids as they remember the numbers to a police car. So I have a, every police car has a number on their police unit. Kids know me so well down to the number of my police car. And they remember that.

Now that's, it's pretty cool if you think about it. That is very cool. And so, you know, these kids now, that's been a few years and I still see them, but my goal was, it's one thing to years, and I still see them, but my goal was, it's one thing to say you care about someone and not to be scared, but you've got to show it. You've got to show it.

And so, that was just a story of, I don't know what these kids were. Did you just keep going by? Keep going by some of the things I do, and sometimes people will kind of give me a hard time, but in the trunk of my police car, it's toys, it's peanut butter crackers, it's pop tarts, it's squeezes, it's not, you know, it's not swat gear,

it's not, you know, battering rams of, you know, it's, you know, it's just don't on me. You were almost like, I mean, I know you wear a gun on patrol, but the old 80 Griffith show, the sheriff that would never wear a gun on his holster. I mean, you're carrying around stuff most cops don't carry around.

I mean, and my skin is thicker today after 25 years in law enforcement, but early in my career, people are, he's given out pop tarts and peanut butter crackers. Absolutely I am. For a few reasons, sometimes it's all the food. The kids will get that day.

And secondly, if this kid's five years old, when he's 25 years old, he's gonna remember that exchange from my hand to his peanut butter crackers. It filled his belly and it made him happy. Well, that concludes part one of our conversation with Officer Norman and I really hope you listen to Part 2 that's now available. Trust me, this interview just keeps getting better.

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