An Army of Normal Folks - Officer Tommy Norman: “The Michael Jordan of Community Policing” (Pt 2)

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

In Part 2, we dive deep into community policing. And just wait until you hear Tommy's version of it.  Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/support-1See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Everybody, it's Bill Courtney again with the new Army of Normal Pugs. Let's continue with part two of our conversation with Officer Tommy Norman, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And I'm Bentley, the Cavalry. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly.

But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and can be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, just ask Bentley.

He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes? In person at least. Plus, we have a three year health guarantee. So, check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around via Uda with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole.

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Go Gray is available at Walgreens, Walmart, Target, and CVS, and go-gray.com. It's an overused phrase, but everybody talks about how we got to get into quote community police. But you don't need programs for community policing. You don't need, you don't need a whole bunch of federal money for community policing. You just need a heart and have the will and the effort to get out of your car and walk around in the community that you're policing and Build relationships, and I mean that sounds to me like that's exactly what you do It not just me, but there's officers all across the United States that do great work

Just because they care about people and some of my closest friends are doing great work and other communities outside of where I work Community policing that term is used pretty loosely in my opinion. Good, explain that, straighten me out. What is community policing to people that are listening? Is community policing driving up down the street for eight hours with your windows rolled up and disengaging from the community? No, community policing is not just a wait.

Early in my career, I thought a wave and a honk was community policing. Did you do that a little bit? I did, oh, the thought a wave in a honk was community policing. Did you do that a little bit? I did. Oh, the guys are waiting. Hey, hey, nice guy. And beep beep, the guys shoot a hand off the hand. Yeah, that's it.

And you'd probably get a wave back. And they would. And they would, you passed on by, they'd be like, screw that guy. Yes. So he's a honk. A honk in a wave. Okay. I'm making a difference.

Not really. Park that police car. And this is what happened when I started getting out and meeting families is if three steps, if you can make it under someone's front lawn, that's just, your front lawn is probably sacred. My front lawn is pretty sacred. I'm on their front lawn. They're okay with it.

Next step is making onto their front porch. You're sitting on their front porch even more of a sacred area and you get invited into their living room and their kitchen for lunch or breakfast or dinner as a police officer. On shift. On shift. Are you getting me? Good candid yams. Some Thanksgiving dinner, a Coke Zero, which is my drink of choice. And so holding you on shift, you would develop enough relationships where they'd say come in and have lunch with me. And how many, if you see a police officer walking into a house, yeah, there's something going to, uh, you're not getting ready to sit down.

I have a big plate of food. That's right. You usually getting ready to walk out with someone in handcuffs. But now, like I said, front yard first, baby steps, front porch, and then come on in. Your family now, we're gonna feed you. I mean, it's a- What does that do to your heart? Ah, my heart wants to explode.

But that makes my job easier. Because if you have a police officer, a group of officers has assigned to your neighborhood and they're now your family, you probably want to thank twice before you break the law. And if someone is acting a fool, you're not afraid to tell the police anymore. Absolutely. The guy in 2005, that's a massive example. But then if you have a homicide, a shooting, get started going to come to first. They're going to come to that officer that they trust now. That makes complete sense. My, my love yard sits in North Memphis, which is rough. North Memphis is a very, very, very rough area. Lots of poverty, lots of hopelessness.

A lot of people have done a lot of work here to try to make it better. And it is better now than it was 20 years ago, but it's still rough. In 1968, April 4, 1968, Memphis was a thriving city. Well, I think it was one of the largest 15 cities in the country back then, and people today would not think that, but it was. But on April 4, 1968, Martin Luther King was shot and killed here. And when he was shot and killed here, there was looting and riding. North Memphis was particularly hit hard from the looting and riding. It was once a really, really, really proud blue collar, largely African-American community. And Firestone was here, a huge Firestone plant, a 50 acre Firestone plant, catapillar, international harvester had a huge plant here, DuPont, and through the last couple years of the 60s and early 70s,

because of all of the racial tension as a result of that, those corporations left. And what it left was a community with a food desert, not many jobs. And from the 70s until now, it's just continued to generationally dilapidate, and you know what comes along with that. So that's what North Memphis is, where my business is.

And this is really, this did not happen long ago just a few weeks ago there was a a murder on a block less than a mile from here police state I'm not exaggerating when I say there were 15 squad cars out there there was a fire truck and ambulance the CSI van was there and it's right on the main drag of Danny Thomas and so you could see it and drove by and saw there and thought, you know, another senseless murder. And then on the way back, the crime tape that was done that block had moved that that was still there. But then there was another 10 or 15 police cars on the next block with crimeom tape and the whole scene.

It's like they just imprinted it one block over and I saw a guy knew from the neighborhood and I pulled over. I said, what happened? And they said, well, this guy, he named him, I'm not going to name him, shot this guy. So I mean, the people in the community knew the name of the shooter and knew the name of the guy that was shot and In 45 minutes while all these police are here one block away the guy who shot the first guy got shot and He was laying in the street and that guy went away and I'm talking cops were a hundred yards away and went away and I'm talking cops were a hundred yards away and that guy was now missing. And everybody was talking to knew who was shot the first shooter, the first shooter's name

and who shot him and you know who didn't know any of that and probably will never the thirty cops that were there because nobody in the community was willing to talk to him. And I always thought I thought you know That second murder might not have ever happened had the community trusted the cops enough to tell him what was going on And I'm telling you the whole neighborhood knew who shot. I mean the old saying who shot John they knew but a wouldn't anybody gonna talk to the police about it and It's because of what you're talking about They just don't trust the police and

I'm sitting here here and you thinking about if the if the if the police on this beat had developed a relationship The people in the neighborhood and it's sit at their kitchen tables having lunch You know that's someone you would say, hey man, this is what happened and you need to get after it before it gets any worse or something like, I mean, community policing really would work. Yeah, but community policing also, as I mentioned before, is coming back. You, I can't stress this enough for people out there listening is that if you're going to step onto a front line, that doesn't need to be the first and only time someone sees you.

You've got to keep that commitment. There was a family of three kids raised by their mom and their grandmother. I got close to him. I found out during getting to know this family, they love CC's pizza. They love CC's pizza. CC's pizza. So I remember, I went on with CC's. No, no, nothing at all. We've got one back home.

Yeah. So I said a day when I was off and was going to go with permission from the family, take these kids out to eat. I show up. I'm excited because this is one of the first families that I came in and contact with that actually trusted me outside of the uniform. Knock on the door, grab my inches of door. I'm here to take the kids to CC's pizza.

I'm sorry, were you on shift? Nah, I was off duty. Off duty. Off duty and civilian clothes. Did they know you were coming? Oh, yeah, knew I was coming. Yeah. I'm here to take the kids CC's pizza.

No, the kids were ready. Two kids are still sleeping. One of them playing video games on the couch and the grandma says, Officer Norman, they did not believe you were coming. So that told me right there, I've got more work to do. Too many kids, too many families, too many communities have been given all these promises. These police officers coming into your neighborhood

selling you a dream, but they don't come back. You got to come back. Brother. It is now time for me to invoke the turkey person story because what you're saying is exactly the truth, which is my first year at Manassas. Now when I showed up to Manassas, their previous 10 years record was four wins and 96 losses. Wow. Yeah, that's a wow.

That's small. I mean, you cannot be, I guess you could be worse, but not much worse, right? And there were only 17 kids on the football team. And I mean, they're terrible. And halfway through my first season, we were three and three. And now I think three and three's average, but when you come from four and 96, three and three is pretty good. And so but when you come from 4 and 96, 3 and 3 is pretty good. And so all the kids were buying into the football stuff. Yes or no, certain to me on the field. Listen to what I had to say,

doing what I told them to do to execute and win in football games. When I got to my NASIS, it became really apparent to me that I was not gonna just coach football, but I was gonna have to just coach football, but I was going to have to coach character commitment, integrity, the value of being on time, all those basic fundamentals and tennis that well, that's your mom taught you, you know, that you'd get laced up by the belt if you didn't do, you know, being respectful to teachers, doing your home more, just basic core values that were largely absent. And so I started teaching and coaching that too, as well as football.

Well, halfway through the season, we're three and three, and while the kids are yes or no sir, 100% all in respectful with the football stuff, half the team was buying into the important stuff. The other half the team, the minute football was over there back in the streets, engaging the same kind of destructive behavior that got them to four wins and 96 losses in the first place. And it was driving me crazy. So I went to my guy and I said, bobo, what do I got to do to get that half the team to

buy in the important stuff like you're half the team? You know, everybody's being respectful on the football field, but the football secondary is this other stuff that's going matter in your life. And half the, you're half the team's buying in. I appreciate that. But the other half the team did just not buy an in and Bobo looked at me and said, coach, I don't want to hurt your feelings. And I said, Bobo, I'm a grown man, grew up fat and red headed and there's not much you can say to me that

they can hurt my feelings. I've been through that plenty and he said real talk and I said, yeah straight talk. I need to understand why that half the team is not buying into the important stuff like your half the team and you look me dead and eyes and he said coach you're trying to figure out if you're a turkey person or not and I mean I got to tell you something Tommy but I bet you learned a lot of anacular the first year on your beat that you had not heard or known in your life well so what I at Monasses a lot of terms of anacular and stuff I still use today,

that I find hilarious. But I had not learned what turkey person meant. I looked at Bobo and I said, Bobo, you know, what are you talking about? And he said, coach, everything's given in Christmas, people from where you live, pull up into our neighborhoods and they got gifts and hams and turkeys and we take them because we ain't got none. But then they leave and we never see them again and it makes you wonder if they're doing that because they really care about us or they're doing that to make themselves feel good. And he looked me dead and eyes, he said,

go to what the hell are you doing down here, man? And when I hear you say, you showed up to those kids door to take them to C.C.s, their favorite place to go, which they would be jumping up down crazy for the opportunity to go C.C.s pizza, and they weren't even dressed because they didn't believe you were coming back. What people need to understand when they're listening to this conversation with us is that your response, your experience with the CC's pizza and my experience to the turkey person is that after generation and generation of being told things and let down people in these neighborhoods do not expect people to come back. They do not expect people to show up and they are so conditioned to to a lack of commitment. They're so conditioned to a lack of care and love that it's just normal

to be let down. And if it in parts of our society becomes normal for children to be let down by adults, why and they hell would we think that they would have any respect for them? None at all. That that CC's pizza story. We did go to CC's pizza. Yeah, they got dressed because you were there. They saw okay, he's here. And that was a highlight, not just of their day, but I think of their young life, that number one, he's not here in his police car. He's not in his uniform. No cameras here.

No cameras. Nobody doing this to, nobody, you're not doing it to shed light on what a great guy you are. Yes, exactly. And it was just, it was a trip to CC's. We had fun and went back home and grandma and mom so thank you. And so that broke down that barrier.

Okay, first of all, they don't think I'm coming. We're not gonna get up and get ready. He's not gonna show up, but. Yeah, because you're just like everybody else who makes empty promises. But that's what they're thinking. Right. It's what I'm saying.

And I can't stress enough that you don't have to be a billcourtney or a Tommy Norman to go out and make a difference in your community. You can work at Kroger's or you can work with that. And be consistent. Exactly. And if you're just mentoring one kid, you're changing the world. It takes all of us, right? You and I can't change this world, but as you said, the army and the normal folks going

out into just giving up their time and their heart, it can happen. I mean, I've seen it happen in North Lark, Arkansas. We'll be right back. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And I'm a bit late, the cover. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly.

But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and can be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, Jess asked Bentley.

He's British so he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes? In person at least. Plus, we have a three year health guarantee. Apparently, he's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to hair-free skin all year long. Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Raleigh Turum locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair-free skin with permanent results for all skin tones, so you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and

money by never shaving again. They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results. And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase, you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing. Give Milan laser a call at 833-NO-RAZER to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out nevershaveagain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation.

That's nevershaveagain.com Hey, it's Helen. It's nevershaveagain.com. health, look and feel. Use the purple toning mask, shampoo and conditioner to revitalize and maintain your gray. Take the Go Grey Hair Quiz online to discover what products work for you. Go Grey is available at Walgreens, Walmart, Target and CVS, and Go-Grey.com. You know, it's, I go back to work in the morning, had to be a briefing at 5.45. I go get my coffee and I will go into the neighborhoods and I'll... And how many years on the force, 25?

And 25 years and you still got out of your car, won't you? Yes, I love it. I love it. Tell me, you have got to have had after 25 years of your career. I can't believe other police departments had called you up and offered you promotions and jobs. I mean, have those opportunities come along?

There have been opportunities from maybe people not even in the state of Arkansas that may become here. And I've traveled and spoke. Now, if someone asked me back home once, is there a Tommy Norman method of policing? And I give two answers, commitment. Commitment in respect. I mean, you have to take admitted to the community and you also have to respect the community, right? Respect it as a person, not just as a police officer, but I don't wanna leave Northland or Iraq. I don't, and I don't wanna get promoted. I don't wanna, I don't wanna test to be promoted.

I don't wanna transfer to work in the courthouse, to work as a desk officer. My calling and it has been since I was about 10 years old. I wanna be in that neighborhood. This may sound a little odd coach, but being in those neighborhoods makes me feel safe because I know that community has my back I don't go into these communities scared now what I want That's interesting what you just said That we got to go there for a second you said, I don't go into these communities scared.

Are you telling me that behind that big badge and the Kevlar vust and the gun and the cruiser and everything else, there's cops every day that go into the communities that they're there to police and they're scared? Absolutely, I think that white police officers that maybe have never interacted with a person in color, you need to get out of your car and find out about that person's heritage.

But you're telling me they're scared. I think some police officers may be scared, but why are you scared? Why are these police officers? Because you don't know the people you're police. You don't know the community. I get it. Yes. But the point is, isn't that interesting that the community scared the death of the cops and the cops to scare to the community. Now how in the hell are they supposed to interact and

protect and serve one another? And what you're saying is you don't go into the community scared because you're part of the community. I couldn't have said any better coach. I couldn't have said it any better. But once again it doesn't happen overnight. Any police officers out there listening to this or just public servants or just your everyday ordinary citizen. Get out and get to know people. People that don't look like you, people that maybe don't have as much as you have.

People that have not been given a voice in life. Be that voice for that person. Help that person establish their own platform. But, like I said, I go back to work and I'm back in these neighborhoods and I interact with these people and we're family. I mean, are there times, and this is a question I get asked a lot, is do you arrest people? I do. I do. I do. Of course you do, yes. Right, right. I mean, you don't see that on social media, but I have a question. Yes. Have you ever arrested 25 years?

You've seen a generation of children grow up and are on your second generation. Have you ever had to arrest a kid that you tried to mentor and love onto the streets? Absolutely, I remember. How hard is that? It was actually, this was not an an arrest but it was a young man His nickname was two-pop that what two-pop was his nickname two-pop. Yes, and like the two-pop secure

I believe so okay, so when he was young five and six years old His mom would call me officer Norman two-pocks up. He wants to see so come by his house We hang out to give him a police sticker Norman two pox up he wants to see so come by his house we hang out and give him a police sticker. Fast forward 10 years later. 15 16 16 I remember driving down the street and two pox walking with two of his friends and he sees me coming and he spits on the ground. That is known as as a sign of disrespect to police officers. If you see police officer coming you spit on the ground. This is a kid 10 years before that loved officer Norman. I remember I even came to one of his birthday parties.

I'm, and then I didn't always keep in the contact with him, I'd seen some, but when I passed by Tupac and he spit on the ground, his friends are laughing. Man. And then a few years later, he got killed and she went out at a convenience store. And it just I tell that story about two-pock because what have I done wrong? And these 10 years there's more work you could do, there's more work I could do, there's more work everyone could do

but that bothered me for days. Why? Do you think he spent? I think that we lost contact and think he's spent. I think that we lost contact and his devotion was then to the streets. And if you're walking with your friends and you've got to show that to an officer, oh, no. Maybe he's walking, maybe he's walking by himself. There's a chance that he's going to acknowledge me, but not that day. And that goes to show that even with the biggest heart that people have, you can't save everyone, but I didn't give up.

That bothered me. And I'm looking at my rear view mirror and the giggling and laughing, I'm thinking, but 10 years ago, Tupac, you love me. There's a thing called the Ben Franklin Close and Sales. And what it is, is I'm selling you something Tommy, I take this piece paper and I'll draw a line vertically right down the middle of it. And then across the top I draw a line horizontally, across the top, and then on the left column I create pluses, on the right column I create minuses. I create pluses on the right calm. I create monoses and any decision I make

Every good thing that comes that decision. I'll list them here any decision I make any negative things that come from that decision I'll list them here and if the positives outweigh the negatives We do it and if the negatives outweigh the positives we don't do it It's a thing Ben Franklin used to use, believe it or not, back in the day. And that's why it's called the Ben Franklin Close. That doesn't work in North Little Rock when you're caught. That doesn't work in Manassas High School when you're a football coach,

because when you go into desperate poverty stricken areas, you have to understand there's going to be a significant amount of monoses, but every positive on the left side of that measure is a win because they probably wouldn't have because before you and your efforts the whole ledger was negative. Whatever positives you get are worth the effort. And so when I hear a story of Tupac and I've said this before on on previous shows, you know, counting. I have five full and repliers that are dead and seven that are in jail for more than 20 years. So far. And I have no doubt that that number will go up. And it absolutely breaks my heart, especially, well, I mean, they all break my heart. And there's a couple I was really, really, really close with. Like you say you went to two-box birthday party,

where you haven't been to every kid north of the Roxburg birthday party. Two-box was one you took interest in, so it's close to you. And I have a couple of those and once dead and once in jail for 20 years. And it kills me and it makes me go home and look in the mirror and think, you know, did, did, what did I do wrong? What I miss? What could I've done different? And it makes you doubt that all the time you spent doing what you were doing was even valuable or not.

all the time you spent doing what you were doing was even valuable or not. And then you remember the positives and you understand that anytime you do work in difficult areas there's going to be negatives and you've got to be able to overcome them. You got to hang on the positives. And so when I hear you tell the story of two-pock, I identify with what that is. I identify with what that is and But think of all the kids that are changed as a result of the effort of getting out of your car and building relationships and show them love It's it is a struggle and it is a price you pay for doing good working communities, but You know in my experience it was completely worth it. What about yours? Early in my career, I wanted everyone to like me.

I wanted as a police officer. Never gonna have. I did. If I remember one time, I'm working security at a Kroger store in North of Iraq, and I went to give, I kept a stack of police stickers, kids love police stickers. I went to give this little girl a police sticker and her dad put his hand and blocked it. Like my daughter doesn't want a police sticker.

She was getting ready to, she was smiling, getting ready to take the sticker, but he pushed my hand away. He's teaching his daughter not to trust you. She walked away so confused. It bothered me. If anyone watched that, it was written all over my face. It's because I was a people pleaser

That That was something can you imagine what happened in that man's life to have had that visceral of reaction to you Just trying to give his daughter a sticker. It got only nose His background and I would you love to unpack oh exactly. I would love to unpack that. Oh, exactly. I would love to sit down with the dad. I'm thinking, all I've done, or at least all I thought I've been doing, still wasn't enough.

And I remember it like it was yesterday, it happened in slow motion and she walked away, and I know she had to be confused, but she's going to listen to her dad. She's not going to take that sticker and he wasn't going to let it happen. And well, I saw on the flip side of that, if you give a kid a police sticker, that could be a like-changer, because I remember giving a sticker to a kid, and a week later, his mom says,

he doesn't wanna wash this hoodie he's wearing because that police sticker's on there. So you have other stores. And the stickers wore off. I was like, I have another sticker. Hundreds of stickers. You can have another watcher clothes. Right. So then you have that story, which gives you hope. So as you mentioned, your former players in the two pox in my community, although you want to be able to reach them

all, I love the positive and the minuses that you just kind of use as an example, but and that gives me really that that give me some more hope. I'm gonna remember that, but after 25 years, I still have the same fire and passion that I did when I started in 1998. Put on a few pounds, don't run as fast, coach, but my heart is never gonna switch up. My heart is always gonna be there for people.

We'll be right back Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And I'm a big leg, the cover. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog exactly. But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and can be delivered

anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, Jess asked Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds in sizes? In first We have a three year health guarantee. So check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around via Uda with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole. One pup at a time. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to hair-free skin all year long.

Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Raleigh Durham locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair-free skin with permanent results for all skin tones, so you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again. They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results.

And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase, you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing! Give Milan laser a call at 833-NO-RAZER to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out nevershaveagain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's nevershaveagain.com Hey, it's Helen! Are you ready to reveal your natural gray hair this summer?

Growing out gray can be a tough process, especially when your natural hair colors been dyed with different colors over the years. There is a safe and effective way to go gray. The Go Gray system will meet you at any stage of your Go Gray journey. Whether you're going to the beach during during summer barbecues, you can feel happy, sexy, and confident with your gray hair. Did your hair dye and embrace your gray? Like I did. Go Gray is available at Walgreens, Walmart, Target, and CVS,

and go-gray.com. Tommy, so along the way of getting out of your car, building relationships, taking a step on the sidewalk the grass into the kitchen table and Going to birthday parties and taking kids to pizza and the thousands of other things that you've done At some point you decided to start posting I Guess interactions with kids, right? Yes.

So, from your one to your what, did you decide, did you get comfortable enough that, hey, I'm gonna start posting that I'm a cop and these kids and we're building relationships, and I guess you did it initially. Well, when did you start doing it? And why did you do it initially? So we'll go back to my son Mitchell,

when he was a teenager, he told me about Facebook, right? I wasn't into social media. Yeah. You gotta get some always the kids. Yeah, yeah. So it was when Facebook was a thing. Now I think the pinnacle is TikTok, but that, get a Facebook, you know, it's pretty cool. So I do a little how many years we are on the forces?

So probably I think Facebook started around maybe I was probably a 10 year officer Okay, so 10 years in so for zero to 10 years you're being right I mean, or the cop doing all the things we're sitting there talking. Right, and there was my space. I think there was a my space. I'll have to talk about that. Yeah, my space, yeah. So anyway, around your 10, your kid says,

you need to get Facebook. Right, so I get Facebook, take a picture, profile picture, I connect with people, these high school friends, and hey, you know, just like everybody. It's really cool, so some media can be a pretty positive thing and it could also be a curse. So, let me say this.

I didn't go into policing in 1998, expecting to have this platform that God, demand himself, bless me with. No, that's the point. You just get in Facebook. Exactly. And so, in 2014, Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, Missouri. I stayed up all night watching that because I'm a police officer.

I hate it. And Ferguson is not that far from, let me just one state up. Right, it is. Right. To people, I'm from Memphis, to people in our world, that feels awful close. It's really close like I could get to people in our world that feels awful close. It's really close Like I could get to you in two hours. We can get to Ferguson in about four or five and so I stayed up all night watching the news coverage. It was horrible on both sides

What do you mean as a cop? Well, I got to interrupt you on this one because I want to understand You got as Tommy Norman and then you got as cop because Tommy's a cop, but cop doesn't define Tommy. So as you're watching that and I just heard you say it was awful on both sides, tell me both sides. Well, because so many of us really still don't understand both sides. You've got the police, you've got the community, and then you have the media. Now I'm no expert on any of this, but I know what I saw. I know that, you see this guy that's leaving the convenience store, he has an encounter with a police officer and after that, you know, I'm not going to judge what happened, but I know that community was hurting.

That community was hurting. The police department was hurting. I think too, like you said, if more people knew the mic browns are their community, is police officers? Does that happen? I don't know. I know that the chance will be better

that it didn't happen, okay? So I don't wanna take sides on that. I'm a police officer. I'm not asking you to. But I'm asking want to take sides on that. I'm a police officer. I'm not asking you to put up. I'm asking you to present the sides. So, you know, you've got more people have to know who the mic browns are, their community. Are people that are in front of gas station selling CDs

or DVDs to raise money for their family? To help feed, you know, the kids, their next meal. I mean, you've got to... Yeah, there are, but there's also kids in front of convenience store selling bags a week. Yes, exactly. There are. So how do you derefer and shape between the kids selling a CDs burn, trying to make a living

and the kid breaking the law? I mean, or the kid or the young man or whatever. If I'm a cop and I roll up and it's dark and I see two people in front of a convenient store and a tough neighborhood exchange money for goods. I got to tell you, I'm thinking it's weak. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I mean, do you know their stories? Do you know? I don't know anything about them. Exactly. You're going to get out, you're going to investigate. But also as a police officer, it's how you talk to people, how you present yourself, right? You can't scream and yell at everyone, right? You walk up, hey, what's going on?

You may have to search the person. Did you get a call about this person? What was this person doing? You know, it's a delicate, delicate topic when you talk about police officers and making arrests and policing communities of color, but there are more stories that you know and the more people that you know,

you're gonna know their stories, you're gonna know that okay, this guy here has got to stack a DVDs or CDs that the convenience store owner called and wants him to move along. Do you go up there and you do already know this guy, hey, you need to move somewhere else and sell these, all right, do you take in the jail?

Not necessarily, you talk with move somewhere else and sell these. All right, do you take in the jail? Not necessarily. You talk with him, having move on. And if he's respectful and says, man, I'm just trying to hustle up some money, you like, yeah, I get it, but bro, you're on private property. This man, the one you hear, just move on, so we don't have a beef. Exactly.

And then there you go. That's right. And it could be, you already knew the guy, maybe you just met him, but I remember one of the sergeants, he's retired now, we were leaving briefing one day and he said, hey guys, just watch how you talk to people. Just be courteous and what comes out of a police officer's mouth

could be very, very powerful in a good way and a bad way. And people were remembering counters with police officers for the rest of their life. So the, but your badge should have a heartbeat and not an ego. Wow. Your badge should have a heartbeat, not an ego. Might as well. It rests right on top of the heart. I mean, you're not bigger, you're not better than anyone else. You do that as a job. You have this uniform that you wear as a requirement and you go through this training and you do carry a lot of power. I mean, you can take people's freedom away, right? You take, I remember I stopped the lady one day. She was on

her lunch break from from work and I pulled her over for speeding and she had a traffic ticket she hadn't paid from years past. Man, you gotta go to jail. And she was, she was bawling and bawling, and not because she was scared of me, it's because I've gotta go to jail. Yes, you've gotta warn, I've gotta take you to jail. And she was a successful business woman, and we parked her car there, a husband came and picked it up, but that experience for her,

traumatic. It was. And when we talked, and I saw her a few months after, but my point is, police officers, you do have an important job. You have a powerful job. So I'll go back to Mike Brown. I'm watching that.

I wake up the next morning. I had maybe, Bill maybe a thousand, two thousand followers. It jumped on Facebook. In Instagram, because I had both. Okay. My biggest platforms now, it jumped on Facebook and Instagram because I had both okay my biggest platforms now It jumped by the thousands What I realized is what you post I didn't post anything it was this people that were pissed off at police officers Finding that finding my work and they would share it and you had people with huge platforms that would share it.

Snoop Dogg, Chris Brown, the singer Monica. Sharing your stuff. Sharing my stuff, the rapper of the game. All these people that I don't even know, they're sharing my work. Now, right, wrong, or indifferent, people are mad at police officers. Then the next time we had an incident, air-garner woke up the next morning. It's jumped in the hundreds of thousands of miles. Why are people sharing it? Is it because they're trying to say all cops aren't bad? Here's an

example of a good one, or are they saying, what? Why in response to incidents like that is your social media getting shared? Because to me, that's on. Your first answer was correct. Is not all police officers are bad. So you're telling me it got like Snoop Dogg, a black dude who is a proud black dude,

and I think he's from Watts or Compton, so he's from the streets. It's interesting to me that in the face of something like the Mike Brown thing, that he's retweeting stories about you is that his way of reminding people in his community don't go crazy, there are all not. But you see what I'm saying, I'm just saying.

I'm interesting because so many people would use their social media in that instance to attack the cops, not to highlight a good one. It says to me that they're actually in an odd way holding out hope that the world doesn't fall apart. We can have good cops. This is what people wanted to see. When they would share my work, this is what they want to see, right?

Now, great police officers all over this land that do great work, but I feel like at that moment in time, and in 2015, CNN calls, and a rapper named Killer Mike from Atlanta, he owns a barber shops in Atlanta area. And him and Bruce Rapper that owns barbershops in Atlanta. Yes. Yeah. And Killer Mike and not because he kills people because he kills the Mike. I got it. Killer Mike. So our, our public information officer called me, just got an off work. It said, CNN just called and there's a rapper

and killer Mike that's friends with BrookBald. One, she used to be the afternoon news anchor on CNN. And this is in the midst of people are angry at police. They wanna interview you about what you do. So the chief approved it, I go into a studio and little rock, it's a satellite interview and I'm so nervous,

I'm so nervous and so- Thank you, I've done interviews. Not like that with a local TV station, but not for the world to see. Right. And I'm nervous and in Brook Baldwin, like, hey, Officer Norman, this is Brook Baldwin, I'm a news junkie, I watched the news,

I knew who she was and then there's Killer Mike and Officer Norman, what's it gonna take? What's it gonna take for people to trust police officers and this disengagement to hopefully move away? And just the answers I've been giving you today, it's all I know is to get out and talk to people, and love people, get to know people. The first time you get sent to someone's house

shouldn't be when someone's broken in. You should already know that family. You can't meet every and know every family your community, but you should try your best. Exactly. So it just, you know, my work through God's path, it really lit a fire underneath a lot of people to go out and make change.

Other officers, there's an officer named Jason Lehman from Long Beach, California. He's retired now, he teaches classes, but he traveled all the way here to do a ride along with me from Long Beach, California. He wanted to see it. Yeah. He rode with me and then I returned the favor

and I went up to Long Beach and rode with him. And so you've got officers hundreds of miles away on different parts of the West Coast, down south. That's got to be the real icing on the cake for you. It's, it's, is if you could not only help change the community of North Lederock, but what if you can help change community policing nationwide? And, and I think with social media

and just my, by me being not just officer Norman, I much rather prefer being called Tommy than Officer Norman because I want people to know Tommy before they know Officer Norman. So it's a little difficult to answer your question as far as the followers, millions of people now. It's just, it's, well, I'm just trying to timeline it. So for three or two years, you didn't know anything about Facebook.

Then you got Facebook. Then that stuff started happening, and then media personalities found you and started retweeting you and then so your your platform blew up It was like a perfect storm. I mean how many followers do you have now? Facebook is 2.2 million and Instagram was a million, but that's incredible, but the point is now what those 2.3 million people are seeing absent another massive police blow up is you just interacting with kids on the street in North of Rock, Arkansas, right?

I didn't even go to work. It's beautiful. You didn't go and take it and go somewhere else. You're back in North of Rock, get out of your car, walk in the beat, being consistent and showing you're not a turkey person, and you're still showing films of kids running up to your police car.

These are for the people that follow me, you know, but these are just, I use social media as a teaching tool for anyone that's an advocate for humanity. If a police officer sees my videos and he wants to go out and do what he's doing, or maybe a lady that's an advocate for humanity. If a police officer sees my videos and he wants to go out and do what he's doing or maybe a lady that's a business woman and she wants to help out, she gets off work. I know after talking to God that my social media is a free teaching tool for people to get on and

and because it's but on the flip side of that bill is I shouldn't be asked to travel to Orlando, Florida to speak about being nice. That shouldn't be happening. Right? That's all I don't have a PowerPoint. I don't have, it's all, God always delivered my word. To be nice. That's it. We'd like you to come in here and tell us how to be nice.

I mean, but I know that because of the goal of rule, how about that? Right. The goal of rule. But because of social media, and the way media will portray you. I'm not saying that if me and you, and we've been together for a few hours, but if me and you sit then I have coffee, I would probably fall much more in love with you

and you'd fall much more in love with me because I'm so honored to be here. But social media, it's just Facebook and Instagram and Twitter, okay? I mean, you know, so come to Orlando, talk to, talk at our conference of first responders and tell us your story. So my story, the majority of my story is I've just been nice to people in the 1998. I started being nice to people wearing a uniform. Which is so beautifully simple.

It's simple, but I would always ask my mom and It's a huge honor because before Before social media blew up I Would speak to kindergartners about gun safety or nine-year-old women not to leave your purse and your buggy a while more than turn your back And then when the mic brown and the CNN I got asked to to speak. The first time outside the city of North LaDorock was a University of Arkansas at Fayetteville, Go hogs, we pig. I spoke to their college there. And Go hogs, we pig.

We pig. A shameless coach knows that. Yeah. Anyway. And then Orlando and Houston and Dallas and New York and all these places and these people are calling me and I would go speak and I would fly back in on a Saturday night and had to be at work the next morning. I was exhausting myself, but I felt like if people want to hear what I have to say, even though I'm just telling you how to be nice to people and go talk to people that don't look like you and go on some front yards and front porch.

Everything I've told you today is that's it. But if that's what God wants, if that's what it takes to a lot of fire in different communities across the world, then fly me in. I'm going to like this fire. When I leave, I hope you can use my example. And that's it. That's it. That's the thing about it. It's just so beautifully simple. So when you woke up after the second police incident, where the numbers on your social media just continue to climb. I mean, we like, wow, what the, I mean, I guess if I did a post and came back at all the sudden there was like 20,000 people viewing it or whatever, I'd be like, I mean, you had to have been shocked, I guess, is what I'm asking. I was shocked and it wasn't me. I was out of my element because I didn't go into policing to have millions of followers, but it's, you know,

it's not never even done. You didn't even know what it was. No, it wasn't, it wasn't in 98. There wasn't social media. And you know what's interesting about that is I get asked about undefeated the movie, but what people don't understand is, I was, that happened the last year I was at Manassas. I coached Manassas seven years before all that.

I didn't go into coaching because some, Tommy, the three dudes wearing skinny leg of jeans and wearing scarfs when it was hot. I mean, these people from LA don't, I mean, they showed up with two-barred cameras and wearing scarfs when it was hot. I mean these people from LA don't like, I mean they showed up with two-barred cameras and said they're gonna make a movie. I mean I didn't go into coaching for that. It just happened. You didn't go into policing for that. It just happened. And I'm gonna tell you, you've invoked your faith a lot. And when my situation happened, I talked with Lisa about it,

and we were like, okay, God's blessed us with this notoriety now. What do we do with it? And the idea was, we can do stuff like this and have conversations about stuff that matters. But it never really defined me and it's still done. And I guess what I'm asking you is, did you have to pinch yourself a little bit? Did you also have to check yourself a little bit? Because to what I mean, followers, you probably, I mean, I walk in restaurants and stuff all the time where people recognize me and it's humbling and everything else.

I mean, you have to get that, especially at home. You got to be a little bit of a rock star. I mean, how do you handle it? You have to eat a few pieces of humble pie. Right. Agreed. I've had to check myself a few times when my mom taught us early on in life, never get too big for your bridges.

And don't forget where you came from. Don't forget where you came from. And, you know, me being humble hasn't been an issue. And when we go out to places and people may walk up and say, oh, I'll put you in when you're famous. Guess what my wife says? No, he still takes out the trash. Oh, you know what's funny?

Did you say that? Because you know what my wife says? He still can't remember put the lid down. Oh, yeah, I'm just a dude that, you know, I mean, she ate that impressed. I'm trying. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, is that I really respect how you've handled the notoriety

you've gotten. I've worked hard to do the same thing and that that's not what's gonna happen for most people. We need to fix our culture, one person at a time, getting out and getting involved and working to make things better, not because maybe we're gonna get two million followers or a movie, just because it's the right thing to do.

And you and I both were engaged in this a long time before the notoriety ever came along. We never did it for that. And you know, hey, if you're lucky and something like that strikes, great. Use it to do more good work, but don't do it for that. And if that happens, it can't change your focus. And if you don't do it for that, God's going to make sure that he does it for that. And if that happens, it can't change your focus. And if you don't do it for that, God's going to make sure that he does it for you. But I will add this that I feel like during your time at Benassas and then the movie undefeated the world needed you and needed that story. And I feel like with my story and police officers and communities of

color and the disengaged needs The world needs to know that. The world needed it then and still needs it now. The world needs to know that genuine kindness and hard work and humility and the basic fundamentals and tenants of the golden rule and just decency still work. Yes. You are emblematic of that fight. It's not difficult. And I'm so thankful my mom brought me up just to be kind to people. I mean, it literally contains the world.

Amazing. Usually I got a couple more questions that are okay with you. Yeah, he always does this. I think we covered a lot. We did. Man, that was over two hours. No kidding. I love. covered a lot. Man, that was over two hours. No kidding.

I love to give our producer Alex a hard time, primarily because he spends hours giving me a hard time. But there are important topics we still need to cover in case you happen to think that this story was only sunshine and rainbows, it's not, and some of it is gut-wrenching. We all face crosses in our lives, and Tommy has faced some especially trying ones. In part three, we'll hear from him about his struggles, and how he's persevered to continue to love others, even when he's dying on the inside himself. I really am in awe of his example, and I just believe you will be too.

One thing, however, that maybe isn't awe-inspiring is my knowledge and use of social media. Alex gave me a hard time and pointed out that you can't retweet something on Facebook or Instagram, as I was saying. That's apparently not a thing and you can only retweet on Twitter. I don't really know and I don't really care. I'm busy running a lumber company and coaching football so I'm not really sorry about it,

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