An Army of Normal Folks - Officer Tommy Norman: “The Michael Jordan of Community Policing” (Pt 3)

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

In Part 3, Tommy shares a devastating loss that's all-too-close to home. In spite of his pain, he continues to keep serving his community. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/support-1See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks. Let's continue with part three of our conversation with Officer Tommy Norman, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And one bit late, the cover. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly.

But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and could be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, just ask Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about.

Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities? Plus, we have a a three year health guarantee. So check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around via Uda, with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole. One pup at a time. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to hair-free skin all year long.

Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Raleigh Dural locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair-free skin with permanent results for all skin tones, so you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again. They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results. And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase,

you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing. Give Milan Laser Recall at 833NoRaser to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out nevershaveagain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's nevershaveagain.com again dot com we now talk about the crosses Tommy has paired Tommy you uh... you had uh... a couple of pieces of tragedy in your life that i

think is important our listeners to know about because it hadn't been all peaches and cream for you. Tell me about your daughter, Tommy. Yeah, my daughter, Alyssa Norman, passed away November 17th of last year of 2021. 20 years? That's not long ago. No, a year ago. A year ago. And I'm still struggling, I'm still grieving. Alyssa Norman born July 24th, 1995.

And it was a daddy's girl, her entire life. I mean, when you talk about a daddy's girl, she want to be with her dad. She want her dad to comb her hair. She want to go places with her dad. And she played volleyball. She played basketball. She played softball.

She made friends easily. Girl North, North, North, North, North, North, North. Yes. And so she knew her dad's heart. She would always go to events with me, block parties. Which you go with your techer with your techer? Yeah, and her brother Mitchell. Yes, they would come with me sometimes.

There'd be underneath tables, you know, just playing around and and So they your kids were engaged in this stuff with you. They knew they knew what their dad loved and I'm thinking gosh If if they're watching what I'm doing as a police officer and as a humanitarian This can't be a bad thing. You know, I mean, they're learning what it's like to be friends with other people. Teaching them by example, right? It's beautiful. And so, we, as Alyssa got older, her late teens and her early 20s, there were times, build that I didn't speak to her, her times that our relationship were a little bit, was a little bit rocky,

whether that be me being proudful and spending too much time in the community and not choosing to stay at home. One of the things I've always been good at is connecting with people in the community. One of the things I've always been good at is public service. So I'm thinking, go out and do something you're good at.

It comes easy to me. And there were times when I should have stayed home with Alyssa, there are times I should have stayed home with my son Mitchell, but I chose to go out in the community because the community needed me more, at least I felt the community needed me more. So Alyssa, at times in her early adulthood, she would get in trouble, She was experimenting with drugs.

You're a cop. Exactly. Did you know this was going on? I did eventually. I did eventually. When other people would tell me, it's weird even when your cop parents are the last to know. Exactly.

The last to know. Even for a cop. And I remember one time, Alyssa had snuck out and she went to another city Your coworker there share wood ark and saw in the Sherwood police had called me and said this is what teenagers do We got your daughter here at the park. She's here. I passed her a few come pick her up, you know, I did the same thing and so last year in June she wrote me a letter and She had it mailed to my house and a beautiful letter.

A beautiful letter. She was, uh, 25. She was, this was June. She was getting ready to turn 26. Got it. And at the time she wrote me the letter, we hadn't talked for a few months. In the letter, it says, Dad, I'm at the Harbor home in Conway, Arkansas. It's a home for women only that are coming out of addiction. We have church every Sunday at four o'clock. I would love if you would come to church and see me at the harbor home. In that letter, it says, I miss you. I never

thought that relationships between dads and their little girls should ever be broken. I miss cuddling with you. I'm miscutaling with you. I'm miscrawling in bed with you. I wanna see you. So the next... Oh my God, you must have melted. Ah, and I don't even bring the letter with me now to read it because I couldn't even get through it.

I can only imagine. This is my baby girl. Just that are my baby girls. And if I got that letter, I'd have the letter alone would... My baby girl, my baby girls, and if I got that letter, the letter alone would, oh my gosh, that tears to my state about my own reaction to that. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's cute. It's handwritten.

I want to say it was even in pencil, which just made it even more special. So the next sunday I show up. And I'm a surpriseer. And I was trying to make it to where I came in the back door of the church, she wouldn't see me. And I'm tippy-toe and other people are seeing me walking and they're not letting her know when she turns around and she catches me and she runs to me. And I remember I got on a white buttoned down shirt

and she buries her head and she runs to me. And I remember I got on a white button down shirt and she, she buries her head and she's like, Dad, I love you and I missed you. And I said, I love you and I missed you too, Alyssa. And I'm said, I'm sorry, I haven't been here. And when she moves her head back from my shirt, the shirt over my heart is soaking wet with her tears. And you may say, well, why haven't, why weren't you there? I just didn't really know how to be a parent to my daughter who had been in trouble.

You know, I wanted to be there, but then she's older, so we don't talk as much. So every Sunday after that, I would come to the harbor home. And after church, the house leader would let me take a list out to eat dinner. So for all the time we missed from what was her addiction timing? Fentanyl and heroin. Oh God. So heroin. Yes. What's Fentanyl is even more powerful than heroin? Well, no, I know. It's, we're not talking about cocaine and weed, we're talking about injecting some heavy stuff in door.

I mean, she was, she was gripping. But that wasn't a listen. That was not a listen. So we had so much fun from, I got to letter in June, I went to there and then her birthdays in July and then we have all this fun. We usually spend about three or four hours together on a Sunday afternoon and then every time that we would finish dinner and I would drive her back to the harbor home, we would sit outside on a bench in front of the harbor home. And this kind of tugs in my

heart because Alyssa didn't want me to leave. And I knew why she did not want me to leave is because she would keep it coming up with different stories to talk about and different subjects and different topics. I remember one time it was dark and the house mom comes out and she kind of peeks her head out the door, I think. Alyssa, I think that's a hint that you need to, it's time for you to go inside, you know, because they prayed before they went to bed, but then she was in phase one of the harbor home.

So phase one, you're in this church that's a transform into a home, then phase two is a big trailer, it's on the same property. into a home then phase two is a big trailer that's on the same property if you get to phase two you get your phone back you get a job I got to see your own more than Sunday you get a little bit of freedom back yes exactly but you're still living on you're still living on the property yes on campus correct so we got our van running she got a job with a restaurant in Conway Arkansas got our van running, she got a job at a restaurant in Conway, Arkansas.

Got our gym membership to Planet Fitness when it got her safe. Yeah, I mean, she's working, we got her these no slip shoes, she worked in a kitchen, and well, actually, she was a waiter, a waitress, but, and then, November 16th, I talked to her that night and that was on a Tuesday. So once again, more privileges that next day is a Wednesday. I said, Alyssa, text me or call me when you get off work. I want to come see you tomorrow. I want to hang out with you. So she calls me when she got off. And when she text me,

she said, that I'm off work. I love you. I said, I love you too. And then she called me. Her voice sounded different. She did not sound like a Lissa. Did you suspect then she've gotten back into something?

I feel like she had taken something. So Lissa, I didn't mention it to her, but it bothered me all night. It bothered me all night. And when I hung up from her, I'm thinking, it's just, I wish I could be your cop. And you've been doing it for 20 something years. Right.

You have a sense of when things are right and aren't wrong, that people that aren't cops maybe don't have. I mean, the cop in you probably tickled you a little. And how many times have I talked to my daughter and I know how she sounds? On a normal day. Yeah. So the next morning I get up, go to work.

It's around 7, 15, 7, 30, me and two other officers are sitting at a local park, I'm a chitchatting, and my phone rings. And it says the harbor home. I'm thinking, as I decide do I want to answer or not, Elissa has her cell phone back. What would she be calling me number one this early? And number two.

It's an odd time. Right. Why, why didn't she call me from her cell phone? And I'm thinking before I finally swiped to answer, I'm thinking she probably got in trouble the night before. I'm probably going to get a call that she got in too soon trouble. Pulled over something like that. So you're answering this phone call with this sense of dread that at this point it's got to be one of these crap.

Here we go again. We're gonna have to start back over again. That's the dread you're thinking. And one of the things I thought about is maybe even a little pissed off and frustrated at her for doing it. Exactly, I'm thinking, okay, she's gonna have to go back to phase one

and start this all over again. And sometimes that's had to happen there at the harbor. So I mean all that calculus going on your mind, kind of mad, you're kind of frustrated. I mean, I'm listening to you I don't want to put words but that if it was me I'd be sad mad pissed off frustrated and like but all of those But I was scared to answer that phone. I swiped it and it's the house mom What news was I about to receive

So Hello officer Norman to receive. So hello, Officer Norman. This is Laura from the Harbor home and police overdose last night. So I'm in my uniform and my police car, you know, I'm just police officer. Okay, where's she at? What hospital is she at? I'll leave work right now and I'll go see her. Because overdose doesn't always mean that you're dead. Right. Sometimes overdose, you go to the hospital and you've been narcanned and your life has been saved.

And not Elissa. We, things have been going great. Our relationship, we're reconnecting. She's doing right with the life. She's doing right. She's in phase two. She's got a gym membership. She's happy. Got a job. She's doing right, she's in phase two. She's got a gym membership, she's happy.

Got a job. Yeah, I got a vehicle. Cell phone, she's made great friends out there. Where is she? I will leave right now and go see her. I'm shaking, I'm nervous. Once again, I'm in that uniform. So you've got this image, you know,

you're not supposed to break in a uniform. Alyssa is not in the hospital, or Alyssa died. We found her dead in the bathroom. So, I said, okay, I'm on my way. So, I didn't cry, and I'll get more to that in a minute. So, I dropped my phone and my head hit the steering wheel, but I started screaming, and I said hit the steering wheel, but I started screaming. And I said, oh my God, oh my God.

So officer, you got to come out. You got to come out. Yeah, right. Yes. Thankfully, you're exactly right. Because if I do it by myself, I don't know what would happen. But we're close knit family and at least the guys that I work with. And so officer, Humphries gets out and pulls me out of the car.

What's going on, what's going on, said, they just found a list of dead. What happened was Bill is that she was supposed to be at prayer that morning. She didn't show up at prayer. She's not in her room. Bathroom door is closed. They had to force the bathroom door open and she's laying face down on the bathroom floor. She'd been deceased for a few hours.

So that the... The heroin? Yes. It was fentanyl. It was fentanyl. She was face down and even had a bruise on her face from hitting the floor. So when she'd been out working and stuff and got a little bit of money, the grip still had her and she'd just...

She gave, she had a weak moment and we all had weak moments, but that weak moment took my daughter's life. The problem is, a weak moment for me is when I lose my tip with my kids or my wife, a weak moment for an addict and kill them. And you want to know something, Elissa wasn't planning on dying that night, but she was planning on going back and getting in bed and waking up the next morning for prayer. Some solace that I found in this is that she just stopped breathing. Fintinol, you're just going to stop breathing. So it was a peaceful death.

We'll be right back. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And I'm Bentley, the Cavalry. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly. But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps.

Whether you find a match immediately or buy your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and could be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, just ask Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooperie's quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities?

Plus we have a three year health guarantee. So check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around via Uda with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole. One pup at a time. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to Hair Free Skin all year long. Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Raleigh Durham locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair free skin with permanent results for all skin tones. So you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again.

They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably and effectively give you the best results. And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase, you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing! Give Milan Laser Recall at 833NoRaser to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out NeverShaveAgain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's NeverShaveAgain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's NeverShaveAgain.com.

I'm Katie Lowe's, I'm an actor, a podcast host, a mom, and honestly, very tired most of the time. And I'm Adam Shapiro, an actor, a pretzel maker, a dad, and Katie's husband. And we're so excited because we're the new host of Chasing Sleep, the production of Ruby Studios from I Heart Media in partnership with Mattress Firm. Sleep affects your physical and mental performance, your family dynamics, and your quality of life as you grow older.

Sleep can even affect intimacy. One study showed that men who sleep less than five hours per night showed a 10% reduction in testosterone levels, 10% reduction is the equivalent of aging a man by about 10 years. We see similar hormonal effects in women. One study showed a 14% increase in her enjoyment of sexual activity and frequency.

We're going to talk to the experts who will help every day people like us explore the mysteries behind our own sleep. So listen to Chasing Sleep on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you think she knew she was buying fentanyl? Oh yes, I believe so. But everybody knows such stuff's killing folks now. I think she was just gonna try some. She just gave in, I will back up and say

that one of the reasons that this came about is she met a young lady at her job that was an addict. Yeah. They became friends, they had this conversation, that's a problem. That was a problem So my coworkers put me in their police car. They drive me home. I call Roslyn I call my mom actually now I call my sister Michelle sent Michelle. This is dead call the family

Roslyn comes home. She drives me to Conway Roslyn my wife. You're wife. Yes She's a school teacher. She came home and she's been such a God's in throughout all of this. But so Conway 30 minutes, 25 minutes from North Aurora. It's a college town. So we pull into the harbor home. I see the corners van. I see police cars. I see Alyssa's mom and stepdad. And we pull in and everything went into slow motion. The rocks are the hitting, you know,

the tires are the vehicle I'm in and everything's in slow motion. So you're hearing it, you're feeling it. You're right. This is a movie scene. This is not, I'm not getting ready to pull up and see my daughter being taken out in a body bag. So as a police officer, 25 years, you've seen that you've had, you don't cry.

So I had this luxury, so to speak, to flip it on. So I flipped it on, and police mode. And so I pull up and get out. And everybody standing on the parking lot from the harbor home, their mouths or their, their fate, their hands are with their mouth like that. Right. People are crying, you could hear a pin drop. People are in shock. They love to listen.

So, I get out and after about 10 minutes, I hear feet shuffling and they're opening up the door to the phase two trailer and there came my daughter in a white body bag. So, I'm going in police mode, right? Like, I need to get information, I need to get this person's data birth. That's the only way I can protect my emotions because I'm not believing that this is my daughter. My baby girl is being carried out in a white body bag. I asked the corner and I knew that I knew the answer to this question,

but I asked him anyway, can you go back inside with my daughter? I want to see her one more time. He said, no Mr. Norman, I can't. They put her in the back of the corner's van, and as far as that van traveled away from the harbor home until I could see it no more, I stared at that van because that's my daughter in the back of that van.

Once again, I'm chilling shock. I'm not crying. 99% of people out there listening to this, if you see your baby girl, your baby boy, or your husband or your wife carried out in the body bag, you're gonna lose it. 13 months later, I still haven't had the cry that I wanna have. I don't know why. I wanna have the cry that I want to have. I don't know why.

I want to have that cry and people will say, Officer Norman, just cry. You can't just cry. And I don't know if it's, I'm still protecting my brain. I feel like with one good cry, the cries that you tears are just flowing. And after that, you take a good nap.

Those cries, I can't, I can't have it. And I don't want to be strong. I cries, I can't, I can't have it. And I don't wanna be strong. I want, I think it's because I'm a cop, because I've always been in control. I've been in control of people's lives for 25 years as a police officer. You pretty much call the shots. If you get caught, it'll be personal burden to carry.

It is, and do you feel like you haven't given your daughter her just due because you haven't longer probably that that's crossed my night. That's crossed my mind bill. I pray to God, give me, I want to be weak for 20 minutes. Let me be weak. Let me cry. In this been times that it's almost came out, but I feel like I owe Alyssa tears.

Now I know that she's watching this and she wants her dad to be strong. Chasinus, which in your heart? She does and I feel like it's, my daughter died at 26 years old of a devil of a drug and I can't cry. And I just, you know, it's, I mean, you see things in life as a police officer

that I wouldn't want my mom to see. I wouldn't want you to see. I've seen some bad things that have made me, you think it's dissociative to do? It has. Because guess how many times I've responded to overdose was in 25 years, a lot, guess how many times I've cried? Zero. Zero, years a lot. Guess how many times I've cried zero

Zero you walk out with a pen, but it's not it's obviously not that you don't care in love and have concern because you do That's been your entire career But somehow you've become to sensitize to the finality of Death That's but it pisses me off bill that I can't cry. It makes me angry. Could you cry before you were caught? Oh, I'm a cry, cry baby.

Don't take me to a movie. Don't take me to a movie that's gonna make me cry. Oh, I remember one time, I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't know, I was before I became an officer, but I was on a date and I started, she's like, are you crying? I was like, yes, I remember one time, I'm, I'm, I don't know. I was before I became an officer, but I was on a date and I started, she's like, are you crying? I was like, yes, I'm crying. But, but I'm telling you, you see, people on the interstate

and horrific accidents decapitated and, you know, people are driving by like, oh my gosh, me. Once again, pen, notepad, getting information, getting information, it's just, you know, it's just routine as being a police officer. I don't think you've processed your daughter in a personal way. I don't think I have.

It's only been a year, right? And so it's still. I think you're still a cop. There. And let me ask you this. Have, well, hell, I'm just gonna ask it. Have you felt sorry for yourself yet? And what I mean by that is this, here's the great Tommy Norman, who has changed lives

and North Little Rock Arkansas, and has given so much of his time and his effort and his love to people who desperately need it, and you did it out of the goodness of your own heart. Why your daughter? I feel like that why not someone else? Why does that guy's daughter get taken from him? Why not some asshole's daughter get taken from him? I mean if you had that I've had that thought because Alyssa was she was breaking out of addiction. She was doing so well. Why build you up with all that anticipation and hope and then just rip your guts out when all you've done for 25 years to sell people?

Have you allowed yourself to feel sorry for yourself in that regard because, as you and I both know, we all deal with all kinds of heartache and evil in our lives and it's, you know, it's nothing personal against you obviously, but I just wonder if you'd allowed yourself to fall into that rabbit hole. Well, to me, I feel like it would be a little unfair if I feel sorry for myself when a list is the one that struggle with addiction. And there were times that I should have been there for a list of, I'm not going to make any bones about it, I should have been there more.

Now God is an amazing man because guess what God did? God brought a listen, her dad back together before she passed away. Imagine if I got a call at work and listen, I hadn't talked for months. The guilt. Oh, Officer Norman Norman the guilt you would have but I just talked to her the night before and guess what our last text messages Where bill I love you and I love you to she probably? Spoke to and interacted with you you were probably the last person yes Yes, I was one of the last people of not the last but God. I mean is it just the fact that Yes, I was one of the last people of not the last, but God, I mean, it's just the fact that

she wrote me that letter and she thought twice about sitting that letter. She asked the head of the harbor home. She read it, the lady says, yes, send that to your dad right now. So we had all this time together and God knew that a listen needed her daddy and I needed a listen. Now, I don't know if you're going to talk about my health scare that happened four months after. Yeah, it's come. Okay. All right. So I want it. That's that's a pretty crazy story. It's just it's just I again, your story has so many different levels and the things you've done are so inspiring, but it's just life sucks life is off and and you know, I don't want to sensationalize your daughter's death I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to emphasize that You know, we continue to do the things we do in spite of

Terrible circumstances not because all our circumstances are perfect. And I think you dealing with the death of your daughter is a perfect example of dealing with struggles. And I want to say this that if any person listening to this can learn something from Melissa's death is if you have a daughter or a son, or a friend or a mom or a dad that you're not talking to, swallow your pride, text them, call them, and have a conversation. Because you never know. You never know.

Literally maybe that's cliche as crap that it may be the last day, but you're living proof that it could be. And I don't know that I could be here with you right now, sharing my story if Alyssa passed and we hadn't reconnected. That would have ate me away. The girl would have catch it.

But God knew what he was doing. And that's beautiful. There's some server linings throughout Alyssa's death. I've used her story to save other addicts' lives. I've had addicts reach out to me because of Alyssa Norman's death. They want to get help. And people all across the world now know about Alyssa, not for the reasons I want to

know about her. But she was this vibrant, beautiful young lady. She just passed her real estate exam. So, and she's close to graduating from the harbor home and starting her life over again. She was a mom. she elicit was amazing. And you know, it's not gonna question God, although I did, but I miss her. It's tough. The holidays, you know, we're just finishing up with the holidays. It was the holidays were tough.

I think last year I was in shock. So she passed away week before Thanksgiving. This year, felt like maybe the first years, the first year of the holidays, because the numbness is starting to wear off. Right. And this shield over my heart that has come

somewhat from being a police officer is starting to kind of chip away. And maybe that cry is coming. We'll be right back. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And one bit late, the cover. Now I know what you're thinking. Talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that.

I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly. But if you apply now at crocododils.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait.

We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and can be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, Jess asked Bentley. He's British so he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities? Plus we have a three-year health guarantee. So check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't worry about Varyuda, with terribly popular. Crocododles is making families whole. One pup at a time.

Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to hair-free skin all year long. Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Raleigh Turum locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair free skin with permanent results for all skin tones. So you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again. They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results.

And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase, you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing. Give Milan laser a call at 833-NO-RAZER to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out nevershaveagain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's nevershaveagain.com.

I'm Katie Lowe's, I'm an actor, a podcast host, a mom, and honestly, very tired most of the time. And I'm Adam Shapiro, an actor, a podcast host, a mom, and honestly, very tired most of the time. And I'm Adam Shapiro, an actor, a pretzel maker, a dad, and Katie Sazbind. And we're so excited because we're the new host of Chasing Sleep, the production of Ruby Studios from I Heart Media in partnership with mattress firm. Sleep affects your physical and mental performance, your family dynamics, and your quality of life as you grow older. Sleep can even affect dreaming life.

The dreams come to us naturally, but we have to provide the action as individuals. The first question that I always ask the dreamer is how are you feeling in the dream? The mad, sad, glad, or afraid. If we can narrow our emotions down to that, then we can take some action. We're gonna talk to the experts who will help every day people like us explore the mysteries behind our own sleep. So listen to Chasing Sleep on the I Heart Radio app Apple

podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. But as you deal with that grief, even though you haven't been able to cry, as you said, it took a pretty big toll on you physically. You had an, even after that, you had even another challenge. You had a heart attack. I did. March 19th was on a Saturday night, which is, we're talking four, five months.

Almost four months through the day. Almost four months through the day. So still in shock, heartbroken, grieving, depressed, anxiety. All the things that were never in my vocabulary. Are you still on your beat? Oh yes, still on your beat still putting a bright smile on talking to kids talking to families Posting pictures of kids you're still going through your life. Yeah, but guess what but underneath all of it you're miserable Yes, I'm still I still suffer from. And I think that someone that has a platform that I've been blessed with,

it's important to share that I am depressed. I miss my daughter. I'm never gonna see her again, at least on not on this earth. And so March 19th, I go to bed on a Saturday night, March madness, right? I'm watching March madness. Yeah, basketball, you gotta be.

Yeah, just love it. So, pain in I'm watching March Madness. Yeah, basketball. Yeah, you got to be yeah, I just love it. So pain in my chest Tell my wife are you sure you're paying your chest cuz Arkansas is not in it No, I think they were in it. Oh, where they really went to the lead eight again Okay, so that time they were too little all right Um and then so I go to sleep but wake up the next morning I'm in briefing and I feel the pain in my chest again. It's starting to kind go down my left arm, but it would stop like right below my shoulder. I'd scary I miss it to my sergeant And then I'm gonna do your cop you've been around this 25 years. You do exactly what it was so all it gets better

So I go eat lunch with two of my coworkers. You're still having done anything? No, it is the pain still there So when I left lunch, I had to pull over on the side of my patrol area. I have an shortness of breath and the pain was getting worse. What do I do? I go get a sprite. Really? Because if you choose, I thought Coke Zero was your beverage. Well, but if you want a burp, Really? Because if you, I thought Coke Zero was your beverage. Well, but if you want a burp, drink a sprite. I'm thinking it's indigestion.

Are you kidding me? I was having a massive heart attack, but hold on. So I finished my shift, and then later on that evening, March Madness is getting even juicier. Tell me, are you still adding paid attention to it? Okay, because this is when I finally paid attention. I'm putting on my night clothes, Rosin's there, we're gonna watch basketball.

Who's my wife Roslin? Yeah, I got it. The pain, this is when she took me to the ER. The pain was on the left side of my face, traveled to down my left arm and to my left fingertips. She took me to the ER and when I got in the truck, cause once again, I've been in control of my life almost the entire time,

but I feel like something serious is happening. Hit the side of the truck and I say a curse word because I'm scared. The previous time I was this scared was when I had to answer the phone about a list of the death. I'm scared I get to the ER, the ER is packed. They do an EKG, my blood pressure, I tell them my symptoms, they bypass, I'm everybody, get to the ER, the ER is packed. They do an EKG, my blood pressure, I tell them my symptoms, they bypass.

I'm everybody, I walk straight in. Straight in, put a gown on me, drew my blood. Blood comes back, my trapponing levels, trapponing levels are elevated. That's a sign of a heart attack. They admit me to CCU, and the doctor comes in and does a calf. He puts two stints on my heart and when I finally wake up, these are some of the scariest words Bill I've ever heard in my life. His name is Dr. Yachteth,

love the guy. Mr. Norman, you suffer the massive heart attack. If I would have waited much longer, I wouldn't be here. All right, let me ask something. I don't know much about heart attacks. I probably should be in fat and red headed in a high stress position in my life and everything else. So my understanding is diet, weight, but external pressures such as stress and heartache and depression can also have a significant effect on your body. In fact, there's a book called The Body Keeps the Score that's written by a psychologist who's done an enormous amount of work connecting trauma to body, and how trauma and unresolved trauma, especially, literally makes people

physically. To what extent do you think the death of your daughter contributed five months later and your depression and your sadness and your inability to properly mourn, contributed to your heart actually given out on you. Other than genetics on my dad's side of the family, there was a history of heart disease, but everything you mentioned was like the icing on the cake. My heart was under so much trauma from heartache, from the depression and from the anxiety. And me losing some hope in life was never suicidal,

but I was very, very depressed. So I'm laying in the hospital bed, Bill, and there's all these machines, and I'm hooked up to, to these machines, and I hear beeping. But I hear in my ear, my daughter Alyssa, and she says, Dad, meaning not today you're not gonna die today. Medical personnel saved my life and God saved my life but Alyssa Norman is the one that really saved my life. She knew that it wasn't time for her dad to reunite with her.

I've got more work to do on this earth. And a list of new that, a list of save my life. And so you rehabilitate when when do you when you get to go back to work. So I was off ironically seven I guess is considered a lucky number. I was off 77 days. So I go back to work and this was amazing. So this is March April made June July. Yes, yeah, it was right around my work anniversary, which is June 15th. And I go back to work and the love I received. From the time I was in my co-workers,

but my communities which mean the most to me. You know, welcome back, Officer Norman, and honking, and waving, and hugging me. It's like, I'm back where I need to be. I'm back where a listen Norman wants me to be. I'm back with my family. I'm back in living rooms. I'm back on front porches. I'm back on front lawns. I'm back on the birthday parties. Now, I will say 13 months later. I'm still hurt. Like I said, those words and taking medication for anxiety and depression. no, no, no, no, no, but I do because You you can be a police officer and you can think you can save the world but God's gonna sit you on your butt

We'll see that's kind of you know Look before we met I read a lot looked at a bunch of articles You know producers put together good information so that I have a better idea of who I'm talking to and looked at your social media and everything else. But this is what dawned on me and the tapestry I'm trying to stitch together is, is that 25 years ago you went into a community that was scared to death of cops. And, that you taught us, many cops were scared to death of the communities they never beat. And you simply got out of your car, and were kind. And you built a communal family, and a relationship between the police and the community.

And then after all that great work, you go through a miserable year where you lose your daughter and you have a heart attack and you damn near die. And then oddly, the very community that you work to save is probably the very thing that gives you hope and that is saving you. And that's kind of the payoff because you get so much more out of what you put into it. And your story is just present proof of that very thing. That's a beautiful thing, man. I mean, that the community that you felt like you needed to

be in early in your life is the community that you know you need to be in now. And there is supportive of you as you were of of them. I mean, I don't know what community policing supposed to look like, but that's beautiful. Having a heart and just kind of being an advocate for humanity is much bigger than community policing because in three years and about six months, I can technically retire, I guess what? I'm not gonna be done giving.

That uniform will be hung up and, you know, I'll have this retirement ceremony and probably the next day, if not that same day, I'm gonna be right back out there because once again, it's like with you coaching football, I'm sure you told them, you know, it wasn't that uniform with a name on the back, but it's more about your heart.

And giving it 15 years old, I'm 50 now, so I've been giving for 35 years, and whether that's a handshake, whether it's a hug, whether it's telling someone I love you, that's giving, right? Not to say it, you don't have to be Bill Courtney or Tommy Norman to give.

So people out there listening, go out and do something to your community. Hold the door open for somebody. Somebody's at Walmart and they can't reach that out of them off the top shelf, get that out of my, out of them off the top shelf, that's gonna make you feel good. I mean, and what you might find out,

as in my case and yours, is that oddly life has a way of reminding you that you get so much more out of it than you put into it. And in your case, in my case, I think that's completely evident and true. Just I just can't thank you enough for this opportunity just from hearing your story. And I know you're a humble person But I will say this I today. I've met a real-life hero Oh, come on. I know you don't like it. I listen to your story

But man just when I whenever Alex walked me in and I told Alex's our producer. Yeah, Alex the producer and I told a Elizabeth and Kai That's that's Bill talking, that's his voice. So I've got a video of me meeting you that I'm going to post. So a million people are going to see your red hair. I love that. Now I got a question. I know we got a, is that a university in Manassas you should have? No.

Oh, it's not. Oh, okay. I thought it said you ain't. My oldest daughter, you would normally see me in an Ole Miss. Oh, okay. It's me in an Ole Miss. Okay. It's a graduate from Ole Miss. But my oldest daughter spent the last year doing canyoneering in Montana.

Okay. And when Lisa and I went to visit her, they have the University of Montana there. And this is the University of Montana Grizzlies football. Okay. Yeah, that's what it is. And I wear it around here because nobody does what it is. Right.

Right. So that's it. Okay. Um, this is an army of normal folks. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you have two and a half to enough of me and followers or not, you're just a normal dude. And we established that the way you grew up. One of the things we're trying to do is connect people. Any of the stories we

tell, we've always, and up to me, we give out our personal contact information because if anybody hears what we're talking about and is incented to do something in their communities, we want to make sure that the guest on this show, as well as me and anybody else, they can use this resource. So Tommy, would you mind sharing your contact information? Maybe there's a police officer out there that has heard this. It wants to reach out. Maybe there's a middle-aged guy like you and me struggling with a depression.

Maybe there's a 25-year- old young woman out there struggling with addiction. Maybe there's community leaders out there that want to hear how Tommy Norman police is. God only knows in your story. There's all kinds of different ways that you can have a positive effect and we want people to be able to reach out to you if they want to. Would you mind sharing your contact information? Absolutely. So my email address is OF. It's always an ocean. F as in Frank Thomas Norman at Yahoo.com. So some media Facebook is officer Tommy M. Norman. Instagram is T Norman 23 23 4 who bill Michael Jordan Michael Jordan. And then the last is Twitter. Twitter is that officer Norman. So follow me on any one of those and I would love to hear from you. You need to let the North Little Rock police. You need to talk them into letting 23.

That would be nice. That would be like one Adam 12. Right. Right. Tommy Norman 23. 23. That's it. Hi buddy. Thanks for sharing that. And if anybody wants to reach out to you, should they should they be afraid to or oh no, no, no, no, how maybe talk you ear off, but now please reach out. Love it. Tommy, I want to tell you something. It has been a distinct honor to spend time with you. Your story is phenomenal. You know, I'm late to the game. You got to an half million followers.

So there's plenty of people that know all about your story, but I hope more here the story and most importantly, I hope more are inspired by what you do and I am absolutely of the belief that, you know, so much of what else us can be fixed by a normal guy from North Little Rock who grew up with eight siblings who decided he wanted to be a policeman, not to write tickets and arrest people, but to actually love people and meet them and actually protect and serve. And you've changed lives and your life has been changed. And your story is just so damn inspiring and it's

really been an honor to spend these last few hours with you Tommy. Coming from you to say that my story is inspiring it means a lot and thank you for all you do thank you for your hospitality and coach I mean I love you. Love you too brother. You know I've met the guy once and I honestly do love Tommy Norman. It's a bonafide bromance. We both thank all of you who made it through all three parts. I hope you found it as worthwhile as I did.

I learned a ton. Thank you. To join an army of normal folks, go to normalfocox.os and sign up to become a member of the movement. We would love to hear what you do. And if there are stories you've heard, that you think I need to know, write me anytime at bill at NormalFox.os. As you've heard, everyone we're featuring, myself included, are sharing our direct contact information. We're hoping to build a real community that's unlike anything America has ever seen.

If you enjoyed this episode, rate it, review it, share it with friends and on social. Retweet it, or Twitter it, or Facebook it, or whatever Alex calls it. All the things that you can do will help us grow. An army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week. Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini-golden doodle from Crocodoodles. Now I know what you're thinking.

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