An Army of Normal Folks - Peter Mutabazi: The Single Dad Who's Fostered 47 Kids (Pt 1)

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Peter Mutabazi is a Ugandan immigrant didn’t accept the cultural narrative that only white married people can foster and adopt kids. So far, this single dude has fostered 47 kids, adopted 3 of them, and he’s in the process of adopting 2 more of them! His radical love also happened to go viral, making him the most famous foster dad in America, with 2.5 million followers across social media.   Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

All the families were adopting from Uganda were always white people so I never saw anyone who looks like me who was doing what I saw but also being colonized by the English

I think we were told a lie you know certain people can do these things and sudden people can do these things so for me adoption was for these people white people exactly yes

let's not say thee let's just be real white people and then who fix that you know I think for me is I can do what I can do, you know? For me, it's changing the narrative or the lie I was told and lead the opposite way.

White people can do this. I'm destined to do this, you know? And for me, I said, no, that can't be. And I want to live a different way. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband.

I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach. in inner city Memphis, and that last part incredibly led to our film getting an Oscar. That movie's called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fodz, but rather by an army of normal folks.

Y'all, that's us, just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Peter Mutabazi, the voice you just heard, has done. This Ugandan immigrant didn't accept the cultural narrative that only married white people can foster kids. And so far, this single dude has fostered 47 kids. He's adopted three of them, and he's in the process of adopting two more. His radical love has also happened to go viral. making him the most famous foster dad in America with 2.5 million followers across social media.

I cannot wait for you to meet Peter right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, until this. Do this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do my icecloth.

I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devon. And on our new show, no such thing. We get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise, lack the expertise they need. to recognize that they lack expertise.

And then, as we try the whole thing out for real, wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing, see? Listen to no such thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you.

And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

When your car is making a strange noise, no matter what it is, you can't just pretend it's not happening. That's an interesting sound. It's like your mental health. If you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed, it's important to do something about it. It can be as simple as talking to someone, or just taking a deep, calming breath to ground yourself. Because once you start to address the problem, you can go so much further. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have resources available for you at loveyourmind today.org. Adventure should never come with a pause button.

Remember the movie pass era? Where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero cents, and I could not stop thinking. thinking about it. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech podcast, there are no girls on the internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines, like the visionary behind a movie pass, black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of movie pass the company that he founded. His story is wild and it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go

to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans. They're wearing Kobe's shirt. They're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder. Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our IHeart Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital One, is coming back to Las Vegas, September 19th and 20th.

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Tim McRaw. Tickets are on sale now at AXS.com. Get your tickets today. AXS.com. We have a great episode. First of all, the guy you all are about to be introduced to, and I'm going to screw this up. I can do Peter well, okay?

Last name, Mudebazi. You got it right. Did I do good? Yes. All right. Peter Muda-Bazi. I think. that's Irish, right?

No. Okay, he's here to join us. But this is another in our series of lunch and listens. And today, we're in Memphis hosted by Agape. And we're going to open with allowing our host to just tell us briefly about Agape and what their mission is. while we're here today. So because we're to lunch and listen, all of you people watching or hearing my voice now, there's probably 40 or 50 people in attendance for our lunch and listen as usual. So everybody, let's give a kind welcome to the CEO of Agape who just celebrated 30

years here. I think you know where the bathroom is by now. David Jordan. Come on up, David. Bill, thank you. It is so good, Bill, to have you and to be a part of this and our team and visitors who are here. Peter, my goodness, what a privilege to have you. So thank you for being here. Thank you. We are an army of normal folk doing this work. The team here, the staff, as we come alongside families in communities.

So Agape Child and Family Services here in Memphis, we fight poverty through God for families, flourish. That's what we're about every day. We're deep in neighborhoods. We come alongside in schools. We're deep in churches. We're where people live. We walk alongside holistically wrapping around for families to flourish spiritually, educationally, economically, relationally, systemically. So we're thankful. We just join you in being this army of folk together. We're glad you're here. So bless you and look forward to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. All right. So here we are. I typically open with Peter, welcome to Memphis, which I'm going to. But just as a setup, Peter's an author of a book, Love Does Not Conquer All, and other surprising lessons I learned as a foster dad to more than 40 children. um peter is uh is is is known as the foster dad flipper and that doesn't mean he flips kids he flips

he flips houses it is a foster dad and then of course metaphorically he has flipped an amazing number of children's lives um so peter welcome to memphis thank you for having me here yeah you flew in from charlotte yes this This morning. This morning. Yes. Yeah. So are you staying tonight?

No, I'm going back home. Remember, I'm a single dad with six children. I want my house not be burning down, so I have to go back. Well, I guess babysitting services for six would cost a small fortune anyway. So you've got to get back. Got it. Okay. So everybody, Peter's story is unique in a number of ways.

One, because of the numbers of children, he's effective. affected too because of the book which by the way everybody Peter was kind enough to bring one and at the end of this it's complimentary to any of you want one and he is going to sign it for you those of you who are listening that didn't take the time to come to lunch and listen you miss out on that um Peter is also interesting because in the story you will find out why he thought he couldn't be a foster father, which screams of social, cultural, and systematic preconceived inaccuracies that we just got to fix in this world. But we'll get to that in the meat of your story.

But maybe most uniquely is because this very American foster father, who has this very American love of giving and service and philanthropic endeavors did not start out American at all. So first, set the stage force for a few minutes, Peter, and just let everybody know the truth and candidly the trauma of your child. Yes, absolutely. So, by the way, I speak seven languages, so English is my fourth language. So that means I might say something rude, you know. So it's why you can throw your iPhone at me and I have two teenagers at home and they'll be able to use your iPhone every night, you know.

True, yes, my name is Peter Mitzabazi and I'm originally from Uganda. My dad is from Rwanda and my mom's from Uganda. So that's why I get to speak so many languages. Where I come from, you know, most people speak at least three, and that's how I go to really learn. Well, my background is sometimes it's really hard to explain to an American what life is as a street kid or as a poor kid in Uganda. You know, I grew up in a home where I was never, never told to be hopeful, you know. Hopeful was lying yourself, you know. Think this way that I had to go fetch water three to four miles away. one way and back and twice a day. We could not afford to buy food, so we had to grow the food.

So my mom spent most of the time in the garden, so she wasn't there to take care of us. In a way, that's how she was taking care of us. But we had to mature very, very early to be able to provide for the family. So at age of four, I can go fetch words by myself and back. At age of five, I can cook food for my siblings, you know, that you had to learn so fast in order. to be there for your family.

When it takes, when it's four miles to get water and four miles by, and that's twice a day, how do you find time to go to school as a child? Well, you don't go to school, you know, that my family could not afford $5 to send me to school, but also because my mom needed that help that I needed to be part of the family and provide and do the things that she needed or she could not do in a way. So in addition to growing up early and no education formally, which is the reality of many children where you come from, you also dealt with abuse. Correct. Yes. So at age of four, I began to realize that my father was different from other dads. you know, for me, before I went to bed

and when I woke up, these are the words that I had from my dad. Peter, you're worthless. Peter, you never mount to anything. Peter, I wish you were never born. So I didn't know how to feed you. So when you hear that from the person that should provide those for you or take care of you,

it's really hard to think you have a next day. And it wasn't just to me, but also to my mom, my mom, you know. So the same abuse that was coming towards me was also coming to my mom. And as a kid and the oldest, sometimes you're afraid of saying what you need are because you want to protect your mom. So I could never say I'm hungry. Here's why. Every time my mom went to my dad and said, the kids have not eaten for days, she got beatings for that. So as a kid, you always, in order to protect your mom, you can't say you're hungry because it was the best way you, you're.

could protect her, but in a way, but also you're starving in a sense. So for me, I couldn't hope for tomorrow. I couldn't hope for the next day. That for me, you know, I didn't know how to pray, but I wish the day ended there, you know. And that was every day. And that's what was our lives as kids, that there was poverty outside waiting, but there was abuse inside the home. So there was no place that you can go and say, maybe I'm a little safe here.

The only time I felt safe was fetching water. That walk of an hour and a half to go get water was the safest way or to feel I'm safe. You know, but again, you go to get water there, you know. The animals are in the water. The shepherds are there. So most of the time you also get the beating or you've got to wait as well. So there wasn't really a room, like a one-time place where you can say,

I'm safe at all. And that was for me as a kid. And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, are you following us on Instagram? More than likely or not, but you should be because it's awesome and we're cool. We've briefly mentioned a few times this cool normal folks wisdom feature that we've started doing there, where we distill down the most powerful points, data, and quotes from our guest into punchy text because normal folks got wisdom too and it's fun and a quick way of getting it from them. I've even started writing them out on a coach's clipboard because I'm a coach

and you guys need to see graphics and they are avalutant graphics. So get on it. Follow us on Instagram at Army of Normal Folks to check out Normal Folks Wisdom and other inspirational content. We'll be right back. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this. Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this. Do this, pull that, turn this.

It's just... I can do it my eyes close. I'm Mani. I'm Noah. This is Devin. And on our new show, No Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise.

And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing. See? Listen to no such thing. on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult.

But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out. Trust me, new episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping?

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Adventure should never come with a pause button. Remember the movie pass era, where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero cents, and I could not stop thinking about it. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech podcast, there are no girls on the internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines,

like the visionary behind, a movie pass, Black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of movie pass the company that he founded. His story is wild, and it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans, they're wearing Kobe's shirt, they're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder. Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future

belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our I Heart Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital One, is coming back to Las Vegas. Vegas. September 19th and 20th. On your feet. Streaming live only on Hulu. Ladies and gentlemen. Brian Adams. Ed Shearerin. Fade. Glorilla. Jellyroll. Lil Wayne, L.L. Cool Jay, Mariah Carey, Maroon 5, Sammy Hagar, Tate McCray, the Offspring, Tim McGraw. Tickets are on sale now at AXS.com. Get your tickets today. AXS.com. this may sound weird but my heart broke for your father and the reason my heart broke for your father is he wish you were never born because he didn't have to feed you and if your mom spoke up

and said our children haven't eaten for two days they're hungry and he would beat her the truth is he was acting out on his recognition of his own inability to care for his family and I think he hated himself more than he hated all of y'all but that's that's the relationship between poverty and an inability to get out of it in a generational sense and although that was all the way in Africa I feel like that exist in our midst too here. What do you think about that thought? Yes, absolutely. I mean, I'm a single force of dad. I get to see that. I get to talk to the dads who sometimes are verbal abusive and physical to their children and their wives that sometimes they feel I can't

provide. So you're asking me, it's taking me off, you know. So I'm going to lash at you instead of providing, or instead of saying, I've tried and I cannot, or let's work together and see how we can provide for our family. Usually when men cannot, you know, they resort to the abuse. Do you think your father grew up the same way? I don't know. I don't have so much background of how he grew up, you know. To me, he was just different from other men that I knew. You know, I had uncles who were kind, but he was just mean at any time. And you didn't know where it was coming, you know. You could be sitting here. If he's holding this bottle, that's what came towards you.

If you're eating, that food came towards you. So there was no sense of being human in a way. Horrific. So at 10, you said, you probably didn't know Spanish at that time, but I would just say you said adios. At 10, tell us that story. So, you know, for me, I knew I was going to die, but I knew my father would take my life. So in my head, as a 10-year-old, I thought, why give him the opportunity to do so? Like, why?

So one day he said, he said me to go fetch water, no, to go get cigarettes at 3 in the morning. You know, as a 10-year-old, you know, the dogs, you're afraid, you know, so for me, I went to get the cigarettes, but on the way, it rained. So the cigarettes got damaged, so I knew, okay, I don't have the cigarettes. I'm going to go home and get the bean. But why? I'm going to die anyway. So for me, instead of going home, I walk to the bus station, I know, 10 miles away. I walked to the bus station and I got there and I asked the lady, hey, of all these buses, which one goes the farthest? For me, what I asked was, I want to go as far as I could so he would never get to see me. But also when I die, he would never have the joy of burying me.

That was my thinking as a 10-year-old, like I will not give you any opportunity. Take my life or even bury me. So that's why I asked the lady, which one goes the farther? And she said that one. And I go in the bus, absolutely. I had never been 20 miles away from my village. And you had no idea where the bus was going. No.

Just the farthest. Farthest it can go, you know? At 10 years old. 10 years old. And you ended up in. Compala. And that's how many hours away? Well, by then, it took about maybe 16 hours to get there from my village.

You know, so I went 500 kilometers away from my village. So to me, you know, all I can remember, by the time I arrived, my legs were swollen that I could not walk that much. Because for me, I was afraid that every time the bus stopped, that my father would be behind me. So I'll push as a 10-year-old, push the bus, you know. In my head, I thought I'm helping the bass move, but I wasn't, you know. And that's how I realized when I got to Kampala. I had one option. One option was to be a street kid.

So right there and then, I knew this is going to be my life for now. So describe to us briefly what a street kid in the capital is. I got to believe that's the kids that we shoo away from our windows when they're trying to scrounge up a quarter. Those are the kids we shoo away when they're begging for food or asking for this or asking for that. we've all seen the over-generalized videos and images of what we think that looks like. What is it to be a street kid really from a former street kid? That's, again, hard to explain to an American because there's nothing in the United States that you have the leaves like a street child in Uganda or in Kenya or anywhere.

You know, your street animals live a better life than most kids. we live alive. So think this way. I slept in the sewer. So in the middle of Kampala, there was a sewer canal that smells, stinching, all. But that's where we slept as three kids.

Why? Because normal people didn't go there. So for us, that was a safe place for us. You know, though it smelled, but it was just better way to avoid any abuse from anyone else. You know, the other part is that's what went through the garbage as well.

So most people didn't like us, so they would throw away the food in the garbage. So we had to run. So if I live next to the garbage, that means I'll be the dog before the dog gets that food. So that's kind of the life that you lived where you're seen as less of a human being, seen more like a stray animal. And that's how we're treated every day, every night, every hour of your life. That's how they saw you.

And you believe this also as well because people said, hey, you stink. Well, we never took showers, you know. And also we worked, they used us in a way that we. found ways of how to steal food by those who used, I know you're going to get cheap labor, but before I get it, I also get something to eat, you know? So in a way, it's how they treated us. That's how they saw us. And we believed every word they thought of us, less of human being. And that's how truly I believe myself that I wasn't as a human as anyone else because of how I was treated. And you learned, all these street kids learned how to hustle up some money, how to hustle up

some food, and that street smarts hustling up led you to be introduced to a man one day. Great. So as street kids, for as we, you know, by then, you know, this is in the 80s, most people didn't make a dollar or 75 cents a day, you know, so most people didn't make that. So we didn't steal money, but rather hassle for food, you know? And that's what people use that. So think this way, that you have a marketplace. where people bring their produce.

But these women and men have to move these produce from one end to the other. So that's how it would be used as carry these potatoes from here to there. And if you don't, I'm going to hit you. So you do so. But in that doing so, you get one banana. And we had a strategy. We can only steal what we can roast when we burn the trash. So we couldn't take anything that needed a pan, no?

Only potatoes, cassava, Irish potatoes, things that are we can. can roast while we are banning anything. And so that is how we were able to survive, you know, get used, but while you're being used, find a way to eat. So like women, sometimes they would use us in a sexual way that you knew, they're asking me what they want. And so I'll give it to them, but knowing at the end of that, that she'll give you somebody to eat, you know? So you worked for that food. That's all you worked for in a way from anyone. The buses, remember, they came from all other cities and came packed right there. So for us, street kids, we're the ones who are to wash the buses and clean them.

Why cleaning them? Because while you're cleaning, you're going to find a potato that fell off, you know? Or while you're removing them, you leave the bananas on top because, you know, when you go cleaning, there would be a meal there. So that was what we used to do every day. So, and survive. Use me. I'll find a way to use you to get something in a way.

So that was my life for five years. So one day, so as trickies, we learned how we were always in a group, the group of tens, because the older one would abuse us as well or use us. So if they wanted to steal a tire, they would say, if you don't get that tire for me, I'll slash you, you know. So you get to learn how to literally steal a tire in five seconds. But you knew who you're giving too, but you knew you'd be in trouble if you didn't do so, you know. So that's how we had to stay in groups of what are age mates were to survive. So we also knew If I steal food from you

And you give it to me That means I'll be the face of everyone else in the back You know Because you gave me food They will always forward me to give you food Or to give me food Because at the end of the day We all put them together and share

So we knew who we can steal food from So I want you had to be wearing glasses Shoes and khakis Boy I would have been a mark all day long. Absolutely. I got shoes, I got cackies, and I got glasses. Yeah, so any of you, if you have cuckies, you know, glasses and shoes,

watch out for your wallet, I promise, you know. It might not make it to where you're going, you know. So that's kind of how we learn who can afford food or who we can steal from in a way, you know. So for me, I saw a mark. I say, I'm going to follow this guy. And as soon as he buys his food, I'm going to take it, you know. And the way we would do it is you're going to carry it before he says anything. Because if you can't ask.

Like, I'm going to take it. You better show me where you're going. Because if you don't, it might end up somewhere. But also, you have no time to say no. So I got to get this food from this guy and said, hey, put my foot down. I put his food down. And then he followed by asking me something that nobody had ever asked me, said, hey, what is your name?

And that rattled me that this person wanted to know my name. But also, here's why. for everyone who was kind was also abusive at the same time. So for me, him asking me my name was, oh, no, you're going to do something to me, you know? But also, it rattled me because for five years, no one human being had ever asked me what my name was. No one, no one had ever said, hey, what is your name? We'll be right back. Imagine that you're on an airplane and all of a sudden you hear this.

Attention passengers. The pilot is having an emergency and we need someone, anyone, to land this plane. Think you could do it? It turns out that nearly 50% of men think that they could land the plane with the help of air traffic control. And they're saying like, okay, pull this, do this, pull that, turn this. It's just, I can do it in my eyes closed. I'm Manny. I'm Noah.

This is Devon. And on our new show, No Such Thing, we get to the bottom of questions like these. Join us as we talk to the leading expert on overconfidence. Those who lack expertise lack the expertise they need to recognize that they lack expertise. And then, as we try the whole thing out for real. Wait, what? Oh, that's the run right. I'm looking at this thing.

Listen to No Such Thing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

Trust me. New episodes every Wednesday on Exactly Right. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. If a baby is giggling in the back seat, they're probably happy. If a baby is crying in the back seat, they're probably hungry. But if a baby is sleeping in the back seat, will you remember they're even there? When you're distracted, stressed, or not usually the one who drives them, the chances of forgetting them in the back seat are much higher.

It can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get in the habit of checking the back seat when you leave. The message from NHTSA and the ad council. Adventure should never come with a pause button. Remember the movie pass era? Where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero cents and I could not stop thinking about it.

I'm Bridget Todd. Host of the tech podcast, there are no girls on the internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines. Like the visionary behind a movie pass, Black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of Movie Pass the company that he founded. His story is wild that it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing

Jordans, they're wearing Kobe's shirt, they're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder. Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our IHeart Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital One, is coming back to Las Vegas.

Vegas. September 19th and 20th. On your feet. Streaming live only on Hulu. Ladies and gentlemen. Brian Adams. Ed Shearin. Fade.

Chlorilla. Jelly Roll. Chon Fogarty. Lil Wayne. L.L. Cool J. Mariah Carey. Maroon 5. Sammy Hagar.

Kate McCray, the offspring, Tim McGrath. Tickets are on sale now at AXS.com. Get your tickets today. AXS.com. We have people who beg in our city here in the United States. I dare you. One day, before you give them anything, even if you didn't give me anything, say, hey, what is your name?

You see how they will look at you because no, none of us ever get. When I read that, I thought about the 90 times in the last three years I've pulled up to an Exxon or a stop and go or outside of Walgreens and somebody homeless walks up to me. I've never, I've, sometimes I will go in store and buy water and give it to them. Sometimes if I have a dollar and they don't look. completely ridiculous. I'll give them a dollar. Sometimes I'll give them a little coupon for a night at the union mission. I don't think I've ever asked, hey, what's your name? Once. And it's just so human for someone to want to know your name. And so when I read that about you, I thought about my own interaction as the guy with the khaki and the glasses and the shoes. And I myself has

never asked what's your name. Yes. So if I may ask you, what's your name? What? What's your name? Bill. Bill. But we know you, Bill, and we are the coach, why you get to do or what you're known for. And that makes you unique and human, you know, so for us, no, when you ask a homeless person, you're basically assuming they don't live in the same arena as you are, so you're going to treat them less. I don't deserve to get to know your name or I don't want to.

You know? So for me, when he asked my name, that is what rattled me. Where you want to know my name, but also for me, it brought memories that my mom named me Peter. So the idea that you could say, Peter, I could hear my mom on the other side like, oh, my child, you know. We all travel. When you're in the airport and you hear someone getting someone's name, you always look back. Are they calling me or calling my son or your son is not there. But because our names give us the identity of who we are, when you don't have that, you are less of a human being in a way. But you'd grown up to realize that kindness equaled abuse.

So it felt good to hear your name, but you took your apple and you ran off. Well, yeah, absolutely I put his food down and a few steps back. Like, you're going to harm me. You know, but before I could go, he'd say his food, you can take my food, but still in that in my mind, you're going to abuse me. so I'm going to put your foot down and run the other way. So as soon as I put it there, I run. I didn't think of it. To me, I thought he's going to abuse me, so I don't want to know you.

Next week, I see him again. I was like, wait, this is the same guy. So third week and fourth week, and every time he will say, Peter, that he just remembered my name. So for me in a week, you had one day, one day where someone knew, your name. And that was the only day that I felt. oh a little human in me like I'm human that he knew my name I didn't have to steal food he will always give me something to eat so for me on Monday between five and seven I knew someone

knows my name and he's going to give me something to eat before I steal it and that's all he took and so he fed me for one year and a half you know one and a half he'll always come and for some reason it wasn't the it seems to be about a food but the idea that someone knows me You know, that someone knows me, is all that I was always looking for on that Monday when he came. So he fed me for one year and a half, and one day he said, hey, Peter, if he hadn't able to go school, would you love to go to school? I laughed so hard because I thought he was mocking me, you know? Think this way. You live in the sewer, treated like a strange animal.

Like, when do you hope to go to school? You know? It's like me saying, hey, Bill, you know, they are sending people to the moon. Would you like to go? I actually would, but it's never going to happen. Absolutely. But how many nights do you go to bed saying, I wish I could go to the moon? None.

Well, to a street kid who lives in the sewer, eats from garbage every day. Yeah, going to school, that's how it felt. Yeah, that's far farther away. And as a false appearance, I think sometimes that's how we treat our children. When they come and you're like, you know, I need you go to school and do your home work. Sometimes that is, like, there's 10, 50 steps to go. before they can know what that means. Like, there are things in between now and what are you asking me that I, it would take

me a while to, to believe that I can go to school, you know? And so for me, I said no. Like another step would be for kids that are in bad situations to believe they could go to college or have a job or be a proper husband and father. Right. or create a family, those levels back up to your reality as a child and things that seem so ordinary and obvious to many of us are not even dreamable to other kids. Yes, and you don't want to lie yourself. You don't want to give yourself false hope.

So for me, even if I wanted to think about it, that was lying to myself and putting myself in a place. putting myself in a place that I never wanted to be, to be hopeful. This khaki guy with glasses that gave you food for all this time and knew your name. Correct. But that's all that I could go, you know? And he earned it. Remember, he earned that right to ask me, would you go to school? Because he fed me for one and a half, you know?

So I said, no. So next time he says, by the way, if you go to school, there will be lunch, dinner, and breakfast. I said, what time can we go now? When we go? Why? Because for the first time, he mentioned the one thing I needed the most. The one thing I lived for, to me, I stole food every day. It wasn't just like an un-money. No, food.

So by him saying, these three meals in my entire life, I had never had two meals a day. So three meals, I was like, that can't be possible. Like, are you sure that must, like when we think of heaven, you know, for us Americans, we think of gold and, I don't know, Angels, for me as a kid growing up in the street, I knew food. They would be food. So him saying three, yeah, that felt like heaven. So I said, I'll go. I'll go right now.

But he fed me for one year and a half. So he had in some way, I trusted him that if he fed me for one year and a half. And he says there's three, maybe there's three. So I went to. But he did something really cool or something I didn't like. He said, go, he said, go wash, go wash so I can. can take you. To me, washing, so I had never taken a shower. So we always waited for little to rain so he can take a shower. I mean, so for him say, go take a shower. I feel like,

okay, now you really don't understand my world. Like, I don't take shower, so forget it, you know. So he's kind of like, could not understand what's going on in my brain, you know. Next time he comes, he says, hey, go clean up, you know, clean up. I, anyone can clean up. So I went to the sewer. I put a little hair, you know, water in the hair, clean my eyes, and came back, and he'd giving me clothes to wear. And as soon as I entered his car, he opened every window, you know? And that's when I realized, like, okay, I don't think I smell good, you know? But that didn't stop him. And so he took me to school. So when we arrived, there was lunch. So I was like, this guy could be real, you know, there would be lunch. So then I waited for dinner, dinner camp. And then

there was breakfast. But when I came in, I never slept on a mattress before. So they gave me a bank bed and put me on top, you know, and I was like, dude, no, I am not, you know. So for me, I slept on the floor for the few weeks, you know, because I had never slept on a mattress, so I felt like I would die, I'll fall off, you know. But here's why I stayed. I didn't stay because I wanted to go to school. I didn't stay, you know, he gave me my first pair of shoes at 16. I never had a pair of shoes before. So what made me stay at school was I waited for the next meal and the next meal. Now I began to work for the next meal.

So, for example, for us as three kids, if you looked in my eye, that means you want to fight, you know, so I'm going to hit you as quickly as possible before you hit me. But then I'll hold back saying, well, I'm not going to hit you because dinner is coming, you know? Dinner's coming. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to risk my dinner, you know. Or the kids, it was a boarding school, so the kids would go to classes.

For me, I'll stay gathering through their staff, so know how much am I going to steal? So as I'm trying to take it, but I will say, hmm, but lunch is coming. So I'll put it back. So I wait for lunch. So with time, I realize I can walk this thing out, you know? So now I put on my shoes, no because I wanted to go class, because I knew if I put on shoes, they will allow me have the next dinner, you know? So now I had to go to class because now I was like, wait, if I go to class, they will allow

me to have lunch. So in so doing for me, because I, when you've never had a meal, you always feel it's the, the next one is the last one, you know, and you work for the next one. And that's how I stayed in school over and over. After three months, he took me to his home. So once he took me to his home, also I was afraid because it was Sunday and they had dinner, you know, there was lunch everywhere. So for me, I was like, no, you're going to hit me and you're going to beat up your family. So I'll serve my food and sit on the exit door because that's what my father did. So I thought every father does that to their family.

So I started at the exit door because I was waiting for him to bid up his family, you know. So next week he invited me again after service, we went. You know, the third I was like, I think they are making it up. He would do one day he's going to hurt somebody, you know. The fourth week they did something really special. So on the dining table, they put one extra seat and they put my name on the seat. Maybe that's the one action that made my whole life change, because I didn't know I was worthy to sit on the tape.

I didn't know it was good enough. And so that was the first time that I felt, oh wow, I belong to this family. And so I sat on the table. And now my whole life changed because I said, if there's a man that I want to be, if I want to be like him, if there's a family that there is on the planet, I just want to be like his family. Because I never saw him yearning at his family. I never saw him beat them up.

I never saw what I thought every man, every dad does, that he was the opposite. And so now, not only was I going to school, but now I had something to dream for because I knew what that looks like. Oh, this is what a good family looks like. This is what a normal father looks like. This is what a normal day-to-day life looks like. And so now I went back to school and I excelled because I had an example of what I wanted to be. You had goals. You had dreams now.

Yeah, because he showed me. That was worth going to school. Besides food. Yes. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Peter Moodibati, and you don't want to miss part two that's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country, but it starts with you.

I'll see in part two. Everyone thinks they'd never join a cult. But it happens all the time to people just like you. And people just like us. I'm Lola Blanc. And I'm Megan Elizabeth. We're the host of Trust Me, a podcast about cults, manipulation, and the psychology of belief. Each week we talk to fellow survivors, former believers, and experts to understand why people get pulled in and how they get out.

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