An Army of Normal Folks - Rachel Cohen: I Used To Think Volunteering Was A Harmful Distraction (Pt 1)

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Vox writer Rachel Cohen had disregarded individual action as an unhelpful distraction to the more important systemic change that was needed to solve our problems. And then she had a change of heart & mind. She wrote an extraordinary article about her transformation that’s titled "Why I Changed My Mind About Volunteering" and we dive deep into it with her.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I definitely read a lot of essays and heard a lot of arguments in college specifically, you know, predominantly but not exclusively, I guess, that these more smaller scale things, individual action, volunteering in your community, changing your personal behavior, those were ineffectual at best. They were a harmful distraction at worst. Like, they would distract from the attention and focus that we needed to be doing to push for the bigger things. And I, and I, and I think a lot of people, we were persuaded.

Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis. In the last part, y'all somehow, some people showed up and filmed us, and it led to an Oscar for the film about our team.

That movie's called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems are never gonna be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on shows like CNN and Fox, but rather an army of normal folks. People like us, just you and me saying, you know what, there's a need over here and I can help. That's what Rachel Cohen has done. You just heard how she was jaded about volunteering and then she wrote a remarkable article for Vox about her transformation into a regular volunteer

and donor that we're about to dive deep into. It's titled, Why I Changed My Mind About Volunteering. My Generation Was Taught to Change the System. That lesson came at a cost. Guys, this is one of my favorite conversations. I cannot wait for you to meet Rachel right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King. This is Leave the Gun, Take the Canole. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture. Leave the Gun, Take the Canole is based on my co-host Mark's best-selling book of the cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture. Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli is based on my co-host,

Mark's best-selling book of the same title. And on this show, we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the godfather's birth from start to finish. This is really the first interview I've done in bed. Ha ha ha ha! We sift through innumerable accounts. I see 35 pages in there.

Many of them conflicting. That's nonsense. There were 60 pages. and try to get to the truth of what really happened. And they said, we're finished. This is over. They know this is not gonna work. You gotta get rid of those guys. This is a disaster. Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features

new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Kahn, Talia Shire, and many others. I guess that was a real horse's head. Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before.

Season 2 is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like be respectful.

We're made out of the same things, bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Iner, host of the podcast The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in ten kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad, or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child

about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. Why would you do that to me when I thought we were friends? We are friends. Los Angeles, 2021. A friendly neighbor appears out of nowhere

and promises to make all my dreams come true. Let's not forget that David Blum was a professional con artist, so you didn't stand a chance. But my dreams soon turned into a nightmare. Blum generally targeted people with money. And I was not alone. He took over 100 people for over $15 million.

One of the victims was his own grandmother. I was married to David for almost 10 years. It was insane. I was barely functioning. And I just had this realization that he will not stop until he kills me. Getting a con artist to pay for their crimes isn't easy. Charge David Blum! I'm Caroline DeMore.

Listen as I take down my scammer on Once Upon a Con on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Once Upon a Time in the West"] Rachel Cohen, welcome to Memphis. Thank you for inviting me. DC, right? DC.

So, not long ago we had the tragedy at the airport and I, did you fly to Dallas or Reagan? I flew out of Reagan today and it was actually, I did text my fiance saying, wow, I haven't felt flying anxiety in a while and now I feel a little nervous. There was the layoffs at the aviation agency too. And yeah, it's kind of weird. Two of my four kids live and work in DC. And flying in and out of DC has all of a sudden become everything delayed, half the things canceled.

It's a mess over there. It was smooth getting on and leaving today. but I was just like, really hope that... I don't like to think about there being a possibility of an error, you know? Yeah, well, interestingly, Reagan was actually designed for commuter aircraft, and it's the shortest runway in the United States that jumbo just land on, which is why they built Dulles for big travel and Reagan was supposed to be actually commuter travel and it's switched. It was designed to handle max 15 million passengers annually.

It holds 25 now. So people need to start going to Dulles. Going to Dulles is horrible. I know it's the drive, right? It's terrible. So far. There it is. So well, I'm glad Going to Dallas is horrible. I know, it's the drive, right? It's terrible. So far. There it is. So, well, I'm glad you're here.

I'm glad you're safe. I'm glad I'm here and I'm glad I flew from Reagan here. Today is another one of our Lunch and Listen episodes. And so, hi everybody, thanks for having lunch and listening, although none of you were eating. So I don't know, this is more like a listen at lunchtime. Oh, there are a couple of people, Elijah. Well, thanks.

You have a small audience for you. We'll do another lunch and listen in April with Michael Arkush, who just wrote a book that's coming out, An Argument of the World's Most Influential 100 Golfers. It's going to 100 golfers. It's gonna be really interesting. He wrote a bunch of cool books. And today you get to see Memphis Listening Lab. Pretty cool spot, huh?

So cool. Yeah. Do you know this was once the Sears? Did they tell you? Alex was telling me earlier, and when I got here, I said, this reminds me of pond street market in Atlanta and then he said that was also a serious. Yeah it's interesting because the Crosstown Concourse is exactly that and Memphis Listening

Lab is good enough to allow us to have some some things here. So Vox explains the news and world around you by making complex topics easier to understand. Vox tries to candidly shepherd audiences through politics and policy, business and pop culture, food, science and everything else that matters. Launched in 2014, the site amassed more than 5 million unique visitors in just over one month. Today, it reaches more than 10 times that audience through Vox.com. It's award-winning videos and it's on Tom Trape podcast. I think Vox has like 145 million total monthly content views. Anybody who surfs around on their phone knows what Vox is

because it's yellow and black, I think, right? Yes. That's the colors. Exactly. And Rachel is a policy correspondent for Vox covering social policy. Ooh, social policy? That could get sticky, can it?

It definitely can. I like to say it's everything, except I don't really do the climate policy stuff. We have another team for that, and we have someone else who handles healthcare. But it's schools, housing, families, education, and abortion rights. Yeah, and you've been doing this for more than a decade, right?

Right. So that's who Rachel is professionally. Who's Rachel grown up? Where'd you come from? What's your world? It's important, I think it's germane to what we're gonna get to talk about, which is simply an article you wrote that has spoken to a lot of us

in my world. But when you hear you work for Vox and you're in DC and you're a writer and you talk about policy issues like housing schools, homelessness, child care, and abortion, one not having met you might categorize you. And I'm curious as to just kind of a brief where you came from and how you came up and what led to this work for you. Yeah. And I'm so glad that you invited me here to talk. And I definitely know what you mean.

And this article I know that we're going to be talking about a lot was definitely different from what I typically do for Vox, which is more, you know, covering specific news, you know, developments and trying to unpack them. And this article essay was was more of a sort of a personal piece that was based on work I've done for Vox that made me, you know, thinking about my personal life. So I just wanted to say that. So I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I have a sister, two parents. I went to public school. I was raised, you know, I'm Jewish. I went to college in Baltimore. I love Baltimore. Where in Baltimore? What?

In Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. I love Baltimore. Where in Baltimore? What? Uh, in Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. I was going to say, you can say Johns Hopkins. It's, you know. Oh, well I do love, like I stayed in Baltimore after I graduated because I really do love the city. I studied history and sociology there, so it was like very sort of focused on the city. I interned at the Baltimore Sun, which was awesome. And then I moved to DC, and I have been there about 10 years, it's weird thinking like, we're on the, you know, fourth president in my time,

wow, going fast. And yeah, that's sort of the high altitude. And I, you know, I got into journalism, I didn't think I was gonna become a journalist because it sort of felt like I love journalism. I did my high school paper and I would do a little college stuff, but it felt like, oh, people who become journalists,

it's like saying you wanna become an actress. It's just so hard to do. So there were always a lot of things that I have been interested in and I love journalism, but I think it's a healthy mindset I try to hold on that like you know the industry is changing so fast so much there's so many different political and economic threats to journalism today that I think should I not be able to do this work in five or ten years or

whatever there's so many other things I also like think would be interesting and meaningful. But hopefully I can...hopefully I will, you know, be back here in my current job in 10 years. So really stupid people go to Johns Hopkins and your degrees are in sociology and... History. And you end up in journalism talking about cultural issues. That's interesting. I mean, maybe you didn't major in journalism, but talking about cultural issues,

having studied both history, which is a huge precursor toward whatever social issues you're engaged in, and then the sociology of social issues. I think that's an interesting perspective to write from. I... thank you. And I agree. I think what I have tried to do in my work, and I think Vox fortunately is a place that's very, very open to this. Not all mainstream outlets are, but I'm very committed to bringing research and history

into the articles to try to help people think about things from different lenses. And yeah, I think there are just a lot of, there's a lot of really great outlets that either don't have the constraints or incentives for that, but Vox is really open to research and researchers and that kind of thing. So it's been good. Okay, everybody. So that's where Rachel comes from.

That's what she does. Here's why she's here. Evan Feinberg wrote on his LinkedIn about an article you wrote. Evan Feinberg is the, he's the director right? Chairman Chairman of the Stand Together Foundation. Now for those of everybody who don't know what the Stand Together Foundation is, is a foundation supported by the Koch brothers, among others, who have poured tons of financial resources

into... When you hear Koch brothers, I know what people think when they hear that, but they really pour resources into a non-political effort. And I mean, we're talking millions and millions and millions of dollars to support philanthropic projects across the United States that work and are scalable. I wanna also add, you know, in DC, the Koch brothers have funded a lot of criminal justice policy work reform. So there's a lot of sort of... The Koch brothers got smoked by a lot in the left-wing media years ago because of some

of the politicians they supported. But the truth is, the Koch brothers have been supportive of issues that are important to people on both sides of the aisle, candidly. And as such, stand together is just that, stand together. We talk about on An Army Normal Folks and Shop Talk all the time that we do not care if you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, gay, straight, white, black, what are some... a progressive, conservative, Republican, Democrat. I'm trying to come up with all these little taglines we seem to collect ourselves in. We don't care.

Short. Yeah. Yeah. We don't care. But if you are engaged in an activity that is helping elevate or serve someone who is not as blessed as you in your community, regardless of any of those taglines about you, I can celebrate that about you. And you can celebrate the same about me. And isn't it interesting if we have this foundation of respect from that level of service in our communities, how those taglines seem to disintegrate and not matter so much anymore. That's really...we talk about that all the

time. That's really germane to our entire movement that is this podcast. So Evan Feinberg, we pay attention to because he's a guy that's really engaged in this across the entire United States. He wrote on LinkedIn, only 33% of Americans are involved in their community at the level that they want to be. To me, that shows we're not fighting the battle of whether people want to be involved. People want to contribute, they just don't know how. That's why this recent Vox article, your article Rachel, stuck with me. It highlights something bigger that's happening across the country. More and more people from different backgrounds and beliefs are rediscovering the power of community. The

author's experience beautifully captures it. As soon as she starts getting involved, she feels fulfilled. Then she sees her efforts are actually making a difference. This shift in perspective is powerful. It's easy to think that the challenges we face are so big that change requires concentrated, top-down power or massively engineered political campaigns. But what if it's more personal than that? It's about small meaningful actions. These efforts don't just add up in some abstract sense, they actually build the foundation of something bigger. That's how communities grow stronger, how trust builds, and how we solve problems together. Imagine if everyone had the

same aha moment. If everyone rediscovered that their actions matter, what could our communities look like then? When I read what Evan wrote about your article, all I hear is it echoed in a few different words the things we talk about every single week. Sure, we're trying to produce a show to be entertaining and hopefully you cry and you're enlightened and you're informed and you're, it's interesting. But the high, your words, the higher altitude view of all of that is, what if we can inspire people to simply engage? How much more fulfilled their own lives will be? And what could our community look like

if from that basis we grew together to serve. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, I hope you'll consider signing up to join the Army at NormalFolks.us. By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode or If you prefer reading about our incredible guests, we'll be right back I'm mark seal and I'm Nathan King This is leave the gun take the cannoli the five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

Leave the Gun, Take the Canoli is based on my co-host, Mark's best-selling book of the same title. And on this show, we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the godfather's birth from start to finish. This is really the first interview I've done in bed. Ha ha ha ha! We sift through innumerable accounts.

I shoot 35 pages every that's very much. many of them conflicting, That's nonsense. There were 60 pages. and try to get to the truth of what really happened. And they said, we're finished, this is over. They know this is not going to work. You gotta get rid of those guys, this is a disaster.

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Coppola, Robert Evans, James Kahn, Tal Yashire, and many others. Yes, that was a real horse's head. Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Canoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season 2 is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits.

They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like be respectful. We're made out of the same things, bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network.

Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad, or the seriously smart podcaster.

It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation visit TalkAboutVaping.org brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why would you do that to me when I thought we were friends? We are friends. Los Angeles, 2021. A friendly neighbor appears out of nowhere and promises to make all my dreams come true. Let's not forget that David Blum was a professional con artist,

so you didn't stand a chance. But my dreams soon turned into a nightmare. Blum generally targeted people with money. And I was not alone. He took over 100 people for over $15 million. One of the victims was his own grandmother. I was married to David for almost 10 years. It was insane.

I was barely functioning, and I just had this realization that he will not stop until he kills me. Getting a con artist to pay for their crimes isn't easy. Charge David Blum! I'm Caroline DeMore. Listen as I take down my scammer on Once Upon a Con on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. So when we read that, we thought, all right, well, who's this Rachel Cohen chick on Vox? Let's read what she has to write. So. And you're like, eh. What's that? And you read it and you're like, eh. No, I didn't.

I read it and I'm like, I love it because one of the things Stand Together talks about all the time, which I believe in is instead of these massive top-down programs, the real work is done from the bottom up. We talk about always not having to be part of some massive NGO or massive organization to have incredible effect and every week we bring guests on the show to illustrate that very point from all walks of life It feels like to me reading your article That you yourself had an interesting awakening is the word I use and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I Would just like you to take us through that article What your personal journey was actually in the article, and what you learned about service and philanthropy and this 33% of Americans,

only 33% of Americans are involved but all want to be. And what you learned, maybe even about yourself, and how that can inspire this army of normal folks. Awesome. I'm so glad to talk about this. Maybe I'll start and you can interject or steer me if I am going in. You're much smarter than me, just go. If I don't understand something, I'll interrupt you.

You're gonna understand everything. I think, so awakening is a fine word to use. I think as I was on this journey and I'll go into the journey, I think one of the biggest things that, for me, that happened that I felt was like, oh, I was wrong about something. Like it was, I sort of started this project with a certain set of assumptions that I had,

you know, developed over the last, you know, since I was in college over the last 15 years or so. And then as I was doing more thinking, I just started to change my mind about all of that. And that's why the article was titled, Why I Changed My Mind About Volunteering, although it's kind of about much more than that. So it started with a note I got from a reader. I thought, I'm sorry. Oh, sure.

It's important for the audience. Those of you listening, watching, and here, really look up the article after you hear this, but the title is, Why I Changed My Mind About Volunteering, the subtitle, My Generation Was Taught to Change the System, That Lesson Came at a Cost. That in and of itself is attention grabbing because it's interesting how you say your generation and it came at a cost. So I erred in not saying that before you started. I wanted to catch everybody up on that. Yeah. And I would definitely be interested to hear from you later if you think there's similar things in your generation or how later if you think there's similar things

in your generation or how, if you think it's different. I do think there's similar things, but from a completely different spectrum. Cool. I want to hear more about that. So as I mentioned, you know, I studied sociology. I've been writing about social policy for over a decade. I write about, you know, housing, the housing crisis. I write about, you know, education reform, all these sort of big systemic issues that are required, policy change and legislation. And basically, it started with a note I got from a reader who

contacted me and sort of said, you know, I read your latest article. I had done this article about tiny home shelters. And he said, you know, when I walk home from work, I see people outside. I live in Washington, DC. This reader also I think was in DC and just said like, what can I possibly do as one person to help? I feel like they're, you know, I feel so overwhelmed by the situation. It feels like nothing I can do really matters. And I started to jot back a response, but it was actually approaching Christmas.

And you know, in journalism, people, news organizations kind of stock up on articles to run over Christmas week while everyone's on vacation And and I thought I said to my editor, you know, this actually is a good question Why don't I report this out sort of formally like why don't I call people and then actually we can? Run this as an article over Christmas week about you know, what? Do experts say is actually the best ways to help people who are and you know, I had some ideas but I thought let's do the formal reporting process. Can we call those ideas preconceived notions? Well, I think for at least for me they were

based on reporting on homelessness, you know, from some dimensions but yeah some preconceived notions. I would say a mix for me. And so, you know, I sort of made a list of organizations, started making calls, and it was just the response that I got, some of them overlapped with what I had, you know, was going to tell this reader, you know, you should go to your city council meetings, you should make your voice heard for more affordable housing, you should, Make your voice heard for more affordable housing. You should support zoning laws that can allow for more shelters and policies that raise wages because people can't afford their rent.

And that's how a lot of people are becoming homeless. But a lot of the suggestions were just a lot more simpler. It was carry cash cash hand out socks Look people in the eye and smile like contact your local shelter see what they need just like a series of things that all made sense but I was like why didn't I like why didn't my mind go there and why don't I do those things and You know, why don't I know? many people who do and

It sort of just started me, it agitated me and I remember that Christmas week, I started thinking a lot about like my time and what I'm prioritizing in my busy schedule and I thought, okay, there's some sort of personal questions I feel like I need to think more deeply about. I need to figure out how I've gotten to this point in my life where I'm in my early 30s

and I'm not sort of volunteering on a regular, like what steps have gotten me to this point in my social circles? But in the meantime, let me just start, let me make a change really quickly and I'll do the researching, thinking thing and for New Year's resolution, let me just find, let me make a change really quickly and I'll do the researching, thinking thing and for New Year's resolution, let me just find something to get involved with

so I can like start that process. So that was my plan. And then- Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Did that make you feel better about yourself? I like having plans. You know, I was like, okay, I'm gonna-

But do you know what I mean? Do you understand the nature of the question? It didn't yet. I didn't really know yet how all this was gonna feel. I only, I didn't know that getting involved would make me feel the way it felt. I don't mean that. Okay, so maybe I don't understand the question.

I mean the sentiment. Here's the thing. Yeah. At the risk of being condescending to everybody on the face of the planet, I'm gonna do it anyway. Yeah, please face of the planet, but I'm going to do it anyway. It's my show, I'm allowed to. The high school I went to, if you cheated, you got in trouble.

If you knew of somebody who cheated and didn't do something about it, you were considered equally responsible. Okay? Same kind of line of thinking. People that allow themselves off the hook because of that sentiment that they're thinking about doing something nice. Right. That, oh, I feel better about myself because, you know, I really think somebody ought to do something about that one day. That sentiment means nothing, but somehow it allows yourself off the hook because you're thinking about nice things. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes. beginning of the process give you some false sense of kindness? Well, my beginning of the process...

That's a bad word, but you know what I mean. I do, I do. But I think for my personal journey, I was like, I'm gonna do both of these things at the same time. So I was like, I'm not gonna spend a year thinking before I start looking for something, let me let me get involved with something. And then I'm also going to think about why I haven't got it before. So I told to your point, though, one of the things that really sort of agitated me is I

started to think a lot about how actually easy it was, like how few intellectual leaps one had to make to justify not doing anything for other people. Like there's- That's what I mean. That's the justification, good word. Yeah, and that sort of freaked me out because I just realized like, oh, I know all these talking points and rationalizations

and people in my social circle, professional circles, like we all sort of, it's, you're so busy, it's got so much going on, you know, et cetera. There's a million different, or, oh, they'll waste the money, can't trust that organization, or they're ineffective. You know, there's so many different sort of excuses

that people people smart, I mean I think good people have made for themselves that when you add them together, really just kind of create this permission structure to not do anything for other people. And I was like, okay, now that I sort of realized that belatedly, for sure belatedly, I was like, okay, let me just find something to do and then I also need to like do some more thinking about how I got here.

And then one of the things that happened to me personally is it was a little harder, it was harder than I expected. I was like, I'm a college educated journalist with professional research skills. I don't have kids yet. I like, I'm self-motivated. I will find, it should not be hard to find stuff to plug into. But then it ended up being, you know, I had all this kind of motivation and I was really like, I'm ready.

And then I was calling places and emailing places and I wasn't hearing back and I'm not a member of a synagogue at this time in my life and my workplace doesn't organize anything. And it was like this very strange feeling that I had, it was last winter, where it was like, oh, you know, I have a lot of friends. I feel like I have a strong social network, but I felt like this institutional gap where I was like, oh, this is the kind of stuff that Robert Putnam was always talking about. Just having things that you can more easily plug into when you want to serve, whether that's somebody inviting you that you know because they're doing it or your church or your school. I know a lot of parents, sometimes their school has organized

things. And I was just very conscious of the fact that there wasn't anything super easy to plug into when I was ready to plug into. Now I wasn't I wasn't gonna let that be an excuse but I was thinking if I wasn't so motivated right now I could easily see why people just kind of give up because you know these a lot of organizations are understaffed so they don't always get back to the volunteer. A lot of organizations are understaffed, so they don't always get back to the volunteers. A lot of organizations need a whole other person to manage volunteers because it becomes so much work for them. And so it just took me, it took me longer than I expected.

Not too long, I did find things, but it was just kind of, it struck me how it wasn't as easy to do. And the more I kind of got into this project and was talking to people in other cities, and I learned that I'm not alone in that, that there are a lot of people who, you know, to Eric Feinberg's point, like, I think want to get involved,

but don't know the access points or there aren't easy access points. And I say this all to not say that should be an excuse and we should all find ways, but I think it's helpful when people are trying to figure out this disconnect of like, okay, we have statistics that say 33%, you know, that more people want to be involved than they are. I think at least part of it is that there aren't as sort of just easy ways to plug in or people aren't like inviting each other as much. So that was kind of one part of it.

You mean that interesting word called community. Community, yes, exactly. Well, that's it. I mean, but it was weird because I felt like I had community, but my community wasn't doing these things, you know? Yeah, I know. You had community. Right.

But there's this whole other community. Right, exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah. And that's one of the things we're trying so hard to challenge people to break through, is that your community is just a dot. There's this massive other community out there.

I think that's really helpful and I feel like it's a helpful kind of pushback against the Loneliness crisis framing because I wasn't lonely, you know, but I didn't have that thing. And so those are just, it's just different sort of ways of thinking about social and connection and things like that. We'll be right back. I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King. This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture.

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli is based on my co-host Mark's best-selling book of the same title. And on this show, we call upon his years of research to help unpack the story behind the godfather's birth from start to finish. This is really the first interview I've done in bed. Ha ha ha ha! We sift through innumerable accounts. I see 35 pages in the re-edition. Many of them conflicting. That's nonsense. There were 60 pages. And try to get to the truth of what really happened.

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews with Francis Ford Kobla, Robert Evans, James Kahn, Talia Shire, and many others. Yes, that was a real horse's head. Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Canoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible,

is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened

when a couple of people said, this sucks, let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like be respectful. We're made out of the same things,

bone, body, blood. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in ten kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad

or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit TalkAboutVaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer host of the podcast the greatest true crime stories ever told Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why would you do that to me when I thought we were friends?

We are friends. Los Angeles, 2021. A friendly neighbor appears out of nowhere and promises to make all my dreams come true. Let's not forget that David Blum was a professional con artist, so you didn't stand a chance. But my dreams soon turned into a nightmare. Blum generally targeted people with money.

And I was not alone. He took over 100 people for over $15 million. One of the victims was his own grandmother. I was married to David for almost 10 years. It was insane. I was barely functioning. And I just had this realization that he will not stop until he kills me.

Getting a con artist to pay for their crimes isn't easy. Charge David Blum! I'm Caroline DeMore. he kills me. Getting a con artist to pay for their crimes isn't easy. I'm Caroline DeMore. Listen as I take down my scammer on Once Upon a Con on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So as part of the researching part of my journey, I started reading a lot of books. And one of the books I read was this book called Who Really Cares by Arthur Brooks, and it came out in 2006. And he had a lot of interesting data.

I mean, I think some of it might be a little out of date now, but one of the points he had made was how, you know, and I would identify as left of center, you know, and he made a point that liberal people tend to donate less to charity, they tend to volunteer less, and they also give blood a lot less. And I read this and I was thinking, I've never given blood. And then I was thinking, why have I never given blood?

And I sort of started going through different things and I started researching and it turns out there's a lot of research on how to get people to give blood and what first time blood donors and it's a lot like voting where it becomes a habit and if someone invites you to donate blood for the first time, you're more likely to do it. And I was like, well, no one's invited me, but that's also a bad excuse. Like I should just do it. I was like, well, no one's invited me, but that's also a bad excuse. Like, I should just do it. And so I, then I saw there was a blood shortage. The Red Cross was advertising around it. COVID really hurt, you know, blood drive donations. People aren't doing them at work as much. So anyway, I decided, okay, well, let me just at least go donate blood and then I'll keep thinking.

So I did that. Can I interrupt you for a second? Yes, please. We had a guest recently. Do you know Let me just at least go donate blood and then I'll keep thinking. So I did that. Can I interrupt you for a second? Yes, please. We had a guest recently. Do you know what percentage of the country needs blood in their lifetime? 100. Wow.

Everybody needs blood, eventually. Right? And if you don't need blood, someone you love needs blood. Cancer, car wreck. Yeah, whatever You know what percent of country donates blood or pilots? What three three? 100% of our country's blood supplies supplied by three percent of the people now do not tell me there's not systematic Apathy to the greater community of need. Yeah, yeah, that's horrifying.

So go ahead, you donated blood. I donated blood. But you're still researching. Yeah, I'm still researching. And you know, I will say, maybe your listeners are sort of more likely to donate blood because they're listening to your podcast, but if you were like me and you had never donated blood,

I was really surprised how good it was. It was like the feel, you know when you get better after being sick for a day the next day and you're like, wow, I feel so healthy. Like I never felt sort of more healthy and like there was so much like vitality. I was like, oh, I am a healthy person able to do this for somebody else. It felt so good. I was really not expecting that. It was just a great feeling.

I've now done, I'm actually donating blood on Thursday. I've donated blood like four times since that point. It's like actually also a really good like health thing because it's kind of like a workout in terms of calories you burn. So, anyway, that was interesting. And so then as part, and then I, as I was doing this, then I talked to my, at Vox,

and I said, hey, do you mind if I'm like, I'll do this on the side. It won't get in the way of my work for you, because I wasn't hired to, you know, go on this journey for them, but I was like, can I work on something on the side about volunteering to individual action, because I think there's something here that I want to figure out, and they were supportive, and so I just kind of did it outside of my normal work. And I started email, interviewing sort of scholars of philanthropy and historians of, you know, social movements.

And I just started, I wanted to understand these questions in addition to getting involved. And so the other thing that happened was I got involved with the Giving Circle, which I had never heard of before. I don't know if, maybe your listeners also, but I read about it in one of these books I was reading and they described it as like a book club but for philanthropy. And it's very popular amongst women, although not exclusively, but I'm in a book club

and I love my book club. So I was like, oh, well, this could be fun. So I found one in DC called Many Hands, and they have been around for 20 years, and they focus on local DC, Maryland, and Virginia nonprofits that are dedicated to serving women and children in some way. And every year, they collectively

donate to an organization that the members vote on and you like meet together to learn and research and and talked and do site visits and it's just kind of a way to make your The power of collective giving they call it So I got involved in that I joined like one of the subcommittees where we would meet weekly to learn more and then and then the voting was in May. So that was a cool thing and I met all these really nice older women who had been sort of in this organization for a really long time. And I think one of the things that I started to think about as I was doing all of this work

and trying to figure out how did I get here, how do, like, why, what's going on was I, first of all, I used to, I volunteered as a kid. Like, I did things with my parents. We would go to soup kitchens. We walked for the cure. You know, like cleaning up parks. All that stuff was very normal kind of childhood things. And then as I got older, something I said in the essay was it started to seem childish.

Like it seemed like something you do as a kid when you're not sort of serious about making real change in the world and that real change comes from organizing political movements, passing legislation. Top down. Top...well, but it didn't feel top down when I was...because it was like, you know, you organize people to push for legislation. So it felt like a grassroots component to it. And it felt...I was very persuaded by all of this stuff that we need people to push politicians,

to pass legislation, to get the change that we need. And the other component that came with that was I definitely read a lot of essays and heard a lot of arguments in college specifically, you know, predominantly, but not exclusively, I guess, that these more smaller scale things, individual action, volunteering in your community, you know, changing your personal behavior, those were ineffectual at best.

They were a harmful distraction at worst. Like, they would distract from the attention and focus that we needed to be doing to push for the bigger things. And I and I think a lot of people, we were persuaded. Like, oh, if you're talking about recycling, you're not focusing on the corporations that are causing so much destruction to the planet. We need to keep our focus on that. And if you are focused on tutoring a student in reading, you are not focused on these like bigger

forces that are trying to like hurt public schools, you know, things like that. Or, and I just, that's, I was persuaded, you know, as a student and as a young adult and I think a lot of people were, and there was this idea that charity and volunteering, it was like, it was gonna distract. And I think one of the things that happened to me as I was doing this was like, I think this is wrong in a way that I didn't used to understand. And I think a world in which we are not doing these things for other people

in which we're rationalizing a way, spending an hour with a student on a Wednesday when you have time because you think maybe there's a more effective or optimized way I could spend my, like I don't think people are actually doing that either. I think that you realize that it's not like everyone was not volunteering and then mobilized for change. Actually a lot of people were cynical and nihilistic over here and not helping in their community and feeling like nothing was going to change. And I just started to realize like actually it's not that it for me it's not that we don't need systemic change or we don't

need policies. I'm still a policy reporter. I still believe in policies are really important for people. But I don't think it's true that this idea that focusing on your community and getting involved and something I know you like experiencing the personal benefits of volunteering, all all that stuff is actually so important to whatever bigger broader thing you hope to one day achieve and we and that was that was really different for me like I that was a

Change and I that's where I've landed and and I've spent a lot of time since kind of talking with other people who also have just been really disengaged and sort of know that they don't know that there's an issue, but haven't really figured out, okay, so how do I change that? And one other thing I might add, if I can, I think a lot of people in my generation younger, like everyone's, there's a lot of attention and awareness around health stuff. Like people are very, you know, almost too much sometimes.

I'm like, you guys can drink, you know? Just kidding. But I think that one of the things that I also just kind of realized as I was doing this was, you know, everyone says they're so busy, but all these people are saying they're so busy, like they're still making time to go to the gym or to get in some sort of exercise or whatever, you know, cook meals if they can, something. But people were not, including me, were not seeing making time for being involved in your community

as like a really just essential thing that should just be part of your weekly or monthly or you know, annual whatever it is life. They weren't, they just, it wasn't being elevated. It was like a, oh sure, it'd be nice to volunteer, but you don't have to make time for that. That's like a, maybe if it works out in the way that people would definitely prioritize and

build in other things. And I read a book called Learned Optimism by Martin Seligman and he has a term he uses called moral jogging and he's like no one really likes to jog. You just jog because you know it's good for you. And he was sort of he was making this also point that like doing things for your community, volunteering, donating, you might not like, maybe you don't, maybe you don't want to do it at the time, but it is good for you, and it is a really good thing to build into your lifestyle, and you will reap the benefits just in the same way like jogging is, you know, ultimately good for you. And I think, yeah, I don't have to like,

I don't have to like, rationalize myself to go do it anymore, but it was all helpful in me sort of unlearning or unchanging my mind about a lot of things that I think a lot of people have told themselves about why they don't do certain things. Like, it's not worth my time, it's not effective, I could be doing more important things, you know, etc. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Rachel Cohen.

And guys, don't miss part two. It's now available to listen to. Together, we can change this country, and it starts with you. I'll see you in part two. ["Dressing in the Morning"] Dressing, dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. I'm AJ Jacobs and my current obsession is puzzles.

And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun. You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brendan Patrick Hughes, host of Divine Intervention.

This is a story about radical nuns in combat boots and wild haired priests trading blows with J. Edgar Hoover in a hell-bent effort to sabotage a war. J. Edgar Hoover was furious. He was out of his mind and he wanted to bring the Catholic left to its knees. Listen to Divine Intervention on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers,

but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers, and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult and all the nuance I can find. Because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Mark Seale. And I'm Nathan King. This is Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli. The five families did not want us to shoot that picture. This podcast is based on my co-host, Mark Seale's bestselling book of the same title. Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli features new and archival interviews

with Francis Ford Cobola, Robert Evans, James Kahn, Talia Shire, and many others. Yes, that was a real horse's head. Listen and subscribe to Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Bob Pipman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some folks

across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Turing Amin, legendary singer, songwriter, and philanthropist, Jewel. Being a rock star is very fun,

but helping people is way more fun. And Damian Maldonado, CEO of American Financing. I figured out the formula is you have to work hard, then that's magic. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to Math and Magic on the iHeart Radio app, Apple

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.