An Army of Normal Folks - Ronda Paulson: Kids Should Never Sleep in Offices (Pt 1)

Episode Date: May 28, 2024

When Ronda Paulson found out that kids entering foster care slept in government offices while they waited to be placed, she got mad at God and heard ‘These are my children, what are you going to do?’ What Ronda did is build a beautiful home to welcome them into and there's now 22 of these Isaiah 117 Houses around the country. And they've loved on over 5,000 kids on what is often the worst day of their lives. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The most pivotal moment of that whole foster care journey, those foster care classes, actually came at week seven. They took us to the Department of Children's Services in Washington County, Tennessee, Johnson City. I'd never been to an office like that. I always tell people to think about the DMV. And we're sitting in this room, it's kind of drab, no windows, kind of dingy. And the gentleman says that when a child is removed from their home,

they come here. And I thought, he's not meaning here. Like, he doesn't mean like this physical building. Like, there's no reason you would ever bring a child in here. And so that's what I asked. Cause like, when you say here, you don't mean here. And he said, a little girl slept on this floor last night. And that's when I got mad at God. How could you? And I was so mad. And I heard, these are my children. What are you going to do? Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in inner city Memphis.

And the last part unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. Y'all, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, us, just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. That's what Rhonda Paulson, the voice we just heard, has done. Rhonda took God's challenge of what are you going to do? And she built a beautiful home for foster children.

So that's when they're put into the system, one of the hardest days of their life, they're not sleeping in a DMV type conference room. And this one Isaiah 117 house has turned into 23 of them and loving on over 5,000 foster kids. I cannot wait for you to meet Rhonda right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. My simple solution to the problem was remove people from the scene and help them feel safer. In response to attacks against Asian Americans, Maddie Park raised over $250,000

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Listen to the big take on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to An Army of Normal, folks. I am really excited to have Rhonda Paulson with us. Her work boils down to a thing called Isaiah 117 House, which we will get to later. But first, kind of unpacking who she is and where she comes from is pretty interesting. And Rhonda, thanks for coming to Memphis. I'm excited to be here, thanks for having me. Yeah, and don't you dare spoil it while you're in Memphis. We'll talk about that at the end too.

You're not allowed to spoil it. All right, but Rhonda's actually in Memphis for a reason today, which kind of connects all the dots to her story. But first, where are you from? I'm from Bristol, Tennessee. And- City, if we want to get specific.

Bluff City, Tennessee. Bluff City? Bluff City. Is that a suburb of Bristol? Is there such a thing? Oh, there is. We say Bristol, I was five minutes from the Bristol Motor Speedway,

but it's technically Bluff City, Tennessee. All right, mom, dad at home, siblings? Mom, dad, still married. Started dating when my mom was in eighth grade. Wow. Got married in 1969, still married. Dad was a banker. Mom says that she was an investigator, but she worked in the office at the police station. But brother, younger brother, Ryan, yeah, it was a good upbringing. So, normal old American middle class, upper middle class kind of type story.

And then went off to college? Went to college, one town over, Johnson City, Tennessee. Milligan College at the time, they're now Milligan University, but Milligan College, small private college in the hills of East Tennessee. And met my husband there, he was from Indiana. He came down to go to Milligan. What is somebody from Indiana doing in Milligan?

Finding me. Oh, good point. Well, that makes complete sense, but he did know that when he enrolled. So Milligan has a strong Christian background, Christian church background, and so there was a strong Christian church background in Indiana, and they would all come down to go to Milligan. No kidding. So small liberal arts school. What did you major in? Actually, biology with a minor in chemistry. Were you going to be a doc? I was. I was. And my mom said I would always be a teacher. And she begged and begged and

begged. And so second semester, my junior year, she said, take one education class. Just take one. I know you're a teacher. And the way I felt when I walked in a school versus the way I was feeling every time I worked in a hospital, like it was night and day, like I just came alive. Like, mom was nice. So what went about money for you is about what you wanted to do.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Because obviously a doctor's gonna make 10 times what a teacher makes. Yeah, I wasn't raised in a house where you really talked about money or that wasn't your driving force. We always had enough. I mean, you know, but no, that was not my motivation

when I was picking an occupation. And Cory is your husband? Cory was also a biology teacher, a biology major, excuse me. I mean, he wanted to be a teacher and a coach and he student taught one day and came home and said, there's something wrong with those kids, I cannot do this, I'm not going to that.

So what he ended up doing? He's done a little bit of everything, but he was a pharmaceutical sales rep for a while, he worked for Chick-fil-A for a while, and now we work together. Okay, so, seems pretty normal folks at this point. You got Rhonda and Cory met at college, get married and start a life I assume in,

well somewhere up in East Sicily. So Elizabeth in Tennessee, one town over, in between Bristol and Johnson City. See I moved all around. Oh yeah. 20 minutes here. Within a 50 mile radius of the metropolis of Bristol. I got hired at Elizabethan High School

right out of college and so we bought a house in this small little town, Carter County, Tennessee, Elizabethan. And yeah, started building a life, had two children. Sophie is now 21, Mac is 17, he'll be 18 in June. And so two kiddos, a pretty little brick house in a small little town. I was a teacher, Corey was working for the local Chick-fil-A and yeah.

Sounds like a great, simple, not very dangerous, easy, understandable, organic, wonderful, ideal life. Doors are unlocked, yeah. Cars are unlocked. Our mailman walked our mail up to the front porch, Understandable, organic, wonderful, idyllic life. Doors are unlocked, cars are unlocked. Our mailman walked our mail up to the front porch, wore a Santa hat, you know, at Christmas time.

And Frank, my kids knew Frank was coming. I mean, picturesque, honestly. Not perfect, but just safe, small town USA. Everybody walked to the football game on Friday night. Everybody went to the Elizabethan High School, go Cyclones football game on Friday night, and yeah. Which by the way, for those of you not from the southeast or even a small town in the southeast,

Friday nights during the fall is, I mean candidly, probably a more attended day than even Sunday mornings at church. Yes. And literally, town shut down on Friday at noon. Absolutely. To get ready for the ball game. Yeah, 10K.

And literally everyone in the town is at the ball game. And in these little itty-bitty towns, you'll have 1,500 to 2,500 people at the Friday night football game, and that is the event, and it goes on, awful. So we had to get on a waiting list five years before my daughter was gonna be in high school to get season tickets to be able to attend the Friday night football game and sit on the home side in high school in high school

That is true story. I know you have them and we we don't even have like my son's graduating and we've got younger children But we can't let go of them and like the people next to us, they will them to next family members, I'm not kidding. I get it, I've seen it, I've coached in it. It's crazy. I've coached at it. And I mean, how good is the team this year? Well, good. But listen, fun note for us,

because you're football, Jason Whitten. Yeah, Jason Whitten went to the University of Tennessee. NFL tight end with the Cowboys, and I think now Hall of Fame guy now. Yes, Hall of NFL tight end with the Cowboys, and I think now Hall of Fame guy now. Yes, Hall of Fame tight end, Dallas Cowboys. I taught him at Elizabethan High School, and his brother Sean. Sean is our hometown football coach,

so at Dave Ryder Field, which was their grandfather. And so, yeah, I mean, it's... And y'all, if you, listeners, if you think this is unique, it may be unique from many parts of the world, but in the Southeast, this is by no means unique. This happens all over Georgia and Mississippi and Tennessee. And the reason I'm telling you is it develops this odd sense of community

because on Friday nights, it doesn't matter what you look like, how you vote, who you love or what you do, everybody's there for the kids in that school and that community. And it is a really source of communal pride that happens. Yeah, it's beautiful. It really is. It's great.

It really is. It's Norman Rockwell, Alis. And ironically enough, I want to tell you that Bristol is only about an hour and 15 minutes of the booming metropolis of rural Retreat, Virginia, which I will be at tomorrow. And where my cousin lives. Which is weird. Davey. Didn't even, I mean, I don't know, their populations cannot be more than 15.

Yeah, like 12. Right. And your cousin's one of them. So, which is weird, and I'm going to be there tomorrow for business. But I've been all over that Eastern Tennessee, Western Virginia area. And it is absolutely beautiful. It is. The rolling hills, the mountains, the Blue Ridge Mountains in the background,

and when the low clouds come in and the winter times are gorgeous there, and it's really just a cool place. So before I got into my current role, like I said, I traveled from Bluff City to Bristol to John City to Elizabethan, but in my current role, I travel a lot, and I can't get over how beautiful my hometown is.

You're fortunate, it's a great place. And it's not just the physical beauty, it's the culture, the sense of community, all of it. And it is not a place that you would expect children to be abandoned, which we'll get to. So, you got married, you got this house, you're living in this beautiful place, you got the, you got this house, you're living in this beautiful place, you got the Chick-fil-A, you're at the school.

I think I read you taught dance or cheer, or you were like. So I was at high school level, taught anatomy, a cheer coach there, took a brief hiatus to be a stay at home mom. When Mac started school, I then started working at Milligan as an anatomy professor, so I worked in the cadaver lab, but I was also the cheer and dance coach at Milligan as an anatomy professor. So I worked in the cadaver lab, but I was also the cheer and dance coach at Milligan University.

Wow. So, I mean, you got this thing going. I do. And you and Cory are going through life. It's safe, it's simple. And then I read, you discussed with him something that you knew you were always gonna do, that he knew, well, not necessarily you were always gonna do, that he knew, well, not necessarily you were always gonna do.

So take me to what started the process of what your life is now. Yeah, I mean, I vividly remember being in high school and talking about that I wanted to adopt a baby someday. Like, I remember saying that a lot. I remember being in college and like laying in dorm rooms and saying, I'm gonna adopt a baby. Is that a thing that people in high school

want to adopt a child? I don't know, it was for me, I could just knew it. I gotta say, Ron, I think it's kinda weird. I mean, high school girl laying around, high school girls, I wanna live in the castle, I wanna marry the Prince Charming, no. Yeah, I wanna adopt a kid. I wanted three boys and I wanted to adopt a kid,

that's what I wanted. I don't even understand where that comes from, I think it's sweet, but I I wanna adopt a kid. I wanted three boys and I wanted to adopt a kid. That's what I wanted. That, I don't even understand where that comes from. I think it's sweet, but I don't even get it. I look back now and I think it is something God laid on my heart. I do believe that. I do believe that. It's just something you felt called to do.

So then I meet Cory, and so I've had this, why didn't it come up in two years of dating? Why didn't it come up in premarital counseling? Like, how did that get dropped? You know, like, I don't know. I think it was a secret. I think that love is blind. You know, it's just going to be... So then we get married. And so then what I thought was just having a conversation, he felt I was dropping that bomb. Like, I can't wait till we adopt. And he was like, what are you talking about? And

I was like, the Lord has always told me I would adopt. And he was like, what are you talking about? I was like, the Lord has always told me I would adopt. And he was like, well, the Lord has told me I wouldn't. And I'm like, what? And so. Did it become a point of contention? Was it a little bit of a thing with y'all? No. Corey lets me have my way about everything.

Everything. Why's man? Everything, it's what he'd tell you. He was like, secret to a happy marriage. It's what he'd tell you. He was like, secret to a happy marriage. Mom is happy. Everybody's happy. And so when he said no,

that was so out of character for him that I was like, oh, he means it. You know? He's serious. And so yeah, things would come up. I would be crying over a video or a TV show and he'd be like, Rhonda, it ain't happening. You know, like he just, no.

And so. You'd be crying. Oh, you'd be watching something oh. Like I would see- You'd be watching something about adoption or children who were abandoned and you would just start bawling. Yes. And he'd be like, dry it up, that ain't working.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that ain't happening. And so, and that's just not who he is. And so, I just kinda had let it go, I think. In my mind, this was something both people needed to be on board about. This wasn't something you talked somebody into. Yeah, you can't do that. Yeah, yeah.

And so I kind of let it go. Yeah. For how long? Till 2014. Well, when did you have the first conversation? 1997. Oh my gosh. You did let it go.

We're talking 17 years, talking a generation, a lifetime. Yes, yes. And then what happened in 2014? So 2013, my word for the year was surrender. And I just was digging into what would that mean, to truly surrender to God, my life. What would that mean? And then 2014, my word was obedience.

So if I'm gonna surrender, then what would it look like to walk in obedience? And so that was the mindset that I was in that whole year. And so it was November of that year. Does Cory have words annually? No. So this is your thing? This is my thing, yeah.

Because it feels like Cory succumbed to obedience and surrender about 17 years prior. He would totally attest to that. Yeah, he's like, I got that part now. I think he was a decade and a half ahead of you. He's glad I attested that. He's like, I got that part now. I think he was a decade and a half ahead of you. He's glad I was catching up. That's right. He surrendered and not be made so.

And so that'd been my word for the whole year. Obedience, what it would look like to be obedient. We had done some kind of big things in that moment. Like we sold a car because we just felt like it was a good car. We felt like we needed to sell it and pay off some debt and we're just trying to walk in obedience. And so I'm home sick from work. You're listening to Dave Ramsey, aren't you?

There was part of, there was a, he saved him her life at one point. I wish I wasn't being dramatic. Um, that's a whole different podcast, but anyway, so I'm, I'm home sick from work, which never happened because you can't miss if you're a lab instructor. You don't miss, you know? And so I was home, I was laying in bed, it was November, and I was watching the Today Show, and they were doing this special about adoptions.

So already I'm hooked. And so they have eight families there, and they're creating these forever families, and they ring this bell, they're a judge. What's a forever family? So they solidify this adoption. So it's official right there. There's a judge, and he's making the adoption official.

And they're doing this on TV. Yes, yes, in honor of National Adoption Month. I get it. And so I am a mess because it's adoption. And then they announced that 75% of the children being adopted that day were being adopted through foster care. I didn't know a thing about foster care.

Nothing. I didn't know what the department was called, where it was, I knew nothing. But I grabbed my laptop laying in bed and I just googled foster care Northeast Tennessee. And it popped up that you need to take an eight week class in order to become a foster parent. And I thought, well, if he won't adopt, maybe he'll foster. And so I thought, how can we do this? How can we do this? Well, they said the classes were starting that Thursday at a church we were familiar with.

So I registered us and then I called him at work and I said, wanna go on a date with me Thursday night? He said, I'd love to. I'll get mom to watch the kids. I was like, yeah. He's thinking all you can eat golden corral. He is not thinking. can eat golden corral. He is not thinking They're all over East, Tennessee

I used to have a dancer that would say can we go to golden corral if we're not going to go and crowd she's like It's where the strawberries tastes like macaroni and cheese. I'm like see that's what I'm talking about. Anyway, so Sorry, yes, it's great place. My mother-in-law loves you. They don't sponsor the show, it's fine. So, we get in the car, we go to Bonefish, that's the restaurant we went to. Bonefish is great, they got the dynamite shrimp, or the, what's it? Bang bang. Bang bang shrimp.

Bang bang shrimp. And so, we leave there, and I was like, hey, why don't we drive out to Crossroads Christian Church? And he was like. Are you kidding me? I'm telling you the truth. And he said, on our date? And I was like, hey, why don't we drive out to Crossroads Christian Church? And he was like. Are you kidding me? I'm telling you the truth. And he said, on our date? And I was like, yeah.

And he just shook his head and he got on the interstate and we drove out to Crossroads Christian Church and we pulled in, the parking lot was packed. And he was like. What are you doing? He goes, lots of people datin' at the Crossroads Christian Churches. It's crazy.

It's date night. Didn't you know that? We walk in, I actually see a guy from college. We were biology majors together and his wife and we sit down. I don't know, it had to be the Lord. I don't know why Corey wasn't asking questions. I don't know what he thought was happening,

but we sit down and the lady stands up and says, welcome to your eight week study of foster care. You're really not embellishing any of this story. I am telling you the truth. You did this? I did this. And he didn't get angry? Oh yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so good, go ahead. He acted a fool for the rest. There was a paper there and you were supposed to write out things like children that you could see in your home, children that you would have difficulty in your home because of, you know, we're supposed to be really thinking

about the children. And he wrote on it, it doesn't matter because when I get home, I'm gonna kill my wife. No, just shoving over notes at me and I'm like, stop. We're gonna get kicked out. He's like, that's what I'm hoping for. I mean, he was just shoving. I mean, he was raising his hand and saying obnoxious things.

He was so mad at me. He was hot. We drove home in silence, went to bed, did not speak a word of what had just happened, got up the next morning, acted like nothing had happened. Was it one of those nights that you leave the leftovers in the car because you're so mad you don't even take them out of the backseat? And make sure you don't touch, make sure nothing touches.

Nothing touches, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was mad. Yeah. And then the next morning. I've created that atmosphere with Lisa a number of times, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was a math. Yeah. But then the next morning. I've created that atmosphere with Lisa a number of times, unfortunately. It's all my fault.

Well, yeah. And so we get up the next morning, but he's acting like everything's fine. So I just roll with it. And so then we meet in the driveway that next Thursday, and he just kind of goes, and we go to week two. So he didn't say he wouldn't go, like we're going.

They come home without speaking. Then we do it again. So we go to week three, but he's not saying anything. And so I'm like, okay, okay. So we're coming home week three. And he said, I do not want to do this. And I was like, I get it. You know, I tricked you into it. And to his benefit, he gave you three weeks on something he didn't want to do anyway. At all. And that's what I said. I said, we made it three weeks. I tricked you into it. It wasn't fair. You know? And he was like, I actually said, I actually said something like, it's okay, you know, no worries or something. He was like, oh, don't, it's okay. No worries to me. And I was like, what is happening? And he broke down and he started crying. And

he was like, nothing about me wants to do this. Like, I like simple, I like safe, I like predictable. You've known me for 20 years. I like to know what's happening. I like a plan. I don't like chaos. I don't like confusion. Nothing we have heard about foster care. Sounds safe, predictable or sensible or, you know,

not chaotic. He's like, but now I know. Like now I know there are kids in our county that literally have nowhere to go. And we have a home, we have space, we have a car, we have love, like we have to do this. So that was our moment where he was fully on board. And so we went back.

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We'll be right back. by a parent or caregiver. All never thought it could happen to them, but with changes in routines, distractions, or a sleeping child, it can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get it in your head. Check the backseat. A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council. Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Hurick.

It is 2024, and we're gonna get through this together, folks. My campaign promise to all of you, here on Next Question, it's going to be a good time the whole time, we hope. I have some big news to share with you on our season premiere featuring Kris Jenner, who's got some words of wisdom for me on being a good grandmother, or in her case, a good lovey.

You know, you start thinking of what you want your grandmother name to be. Like, are they going to call me grandma like I call my grandmother? So I got to choose my name, which is now Lovey. I'll also be joined by Hillary Clinton, Renee Flemming, Liz Cheney, to name a few. So come on in and take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations.

Some of them, I promise, will actually put you in a good mood. I loved it. Your energy and joy. I'm squeezing every minute I can for you out of this season of Next Question. Last question, I promise, you have to go, I have to go, but it's been so fun. And I can't wait for you to hear it. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Solea Mosin, and I've covered economic policy for years and reported on how it impacts people across the United States. In 2016, I saw how voters were leaning towards Trump and how so many Americans felt misunderstood by Washington. So I started The Big Take DC. We dig into how money, politics, and power shaped government and the consequences for voters. It's an election year, so there's a lot of focus on the voters that TikTok is reaching.

The initial reaction is like, oh, things are looking so resilient. I don't want to be too pessimistic, but I just don't see the political will down in Washington right now to change their tune. I think the American electorate has been signaling that it expects a rematch of the 2020 election. These are unprecedented times. With new episodes every Thursday, you can listen to The Big Take DC on the iHeart radio app, Apple

podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The most pivotal moment of that whole foster care journey, those foster care classes actually came at week seven. It wasn't actually week three. That was beautiful. And we were finally on the same page, but at week seven, they took us to the Department of Children Services in Washington County, Tennessee, Johnson City. I'd never been to an office like that. Since that time, I've been in thousands.

It feels like they're all the same. I always tell people to think about the DMV. It's a state office. There's tile floor, there's fluorescent lighting, there's state issued furniture. Plastic seats by the looks. Absolutely. I remember there was like a broken down VCR

on a cart over to the left, like a state office. And we're sitting in this room, it's kind of drab, no windows, kind of dingy. And the gentleman says that when a child is removed from their home, they come here. And I thought, he's not meaning here. Like there's a, like he doesn't mean like this physical building.

Like there's no reason you would ever bring a child in here. And so that's what I asked. I was like, when you say here, you don't mean here. And he said a little girl slept on this floor last night. I know that that is, that has to be a time where you and Corey look at each other and say, this is horrible. But let's go back to where you grew up.

But let's go back to where you grew up. The idyllic, beautiful East Tennessee, rolling hills, the entire community is going to the ball games. Everybody supports everybody. You know your postman by the first name who wears a Santa Claus hat on Christmas. That is not a place where you envision children getting left behind. You envision children getting left behind in Nashville or Memphis or Louisville or LA. Pick a metropolitan area where you feel like that dysfunction more often would exist in an urban area.

Not in Mayberry, not in, how many kids are we talking about? Hundreds in a tiny, tiny space in Carter County. 8,000 in the state of Tennessee. Why? Before we move forward, I think it's important to understand and you have to understand

it now as a result of the time you've spent doing this. What are the circumstances that in idyllic places like that, even places like that that have unbelievable community and care and culture, what are the circumstances that a kid gets taken from a parent there? I mean, I've heard of the stories of rural area problems with meth and other things, but give us a sense of what that looks like. Before I do, I wanna think about one thing you just said,

because I just remembered this. So we go to these classes, and we're hearing about these children. And you keep in mind, it's been idyllic for me, and all my friends look like me, and all their kids look like mine, and we're hearing about these children. And you keep in mind it's been idyllic for me and all my friends look like me and all their kids look like mine and we have monogram things and we go to these lavish birthday parties. And that is the community I know, black and orange on Friday night. Like that's the community I know.

And there was this route that I would run and walk every day. And I would see these houses. I'd see my friends. After I took those classes, I did that same loop and I saw children I had see these houses. I'd see my friends. I, after I took those classes, I did that same loop and I saw children I had never seen before. Just walk by them. They weren't new. My eyes were different.

They were just invisible to you then. My community has two very different sides to it. And you can choose to stay over here, you know, with the comfort and the safe, and we felt like we got thrust to the other side of the tracks. But they're the same children going to the same schools and the same soccer teams and the same, they're the same children.

Anyway, that just hit me when you said that. I thought, I remember that. No, that's as I was reading your story, that's what I was envisioning. What are those circumstances that those children are living in? Generational poverty is huge, huge. I learned through this process, you know,

there are people that are too poor to go to Walmart. I don't think I ever knew that. Maybe that's embarrassing to admit, but it's true. Like in my community, you know, like there is generational poverty in Northeast Tennessee, and there's meth, opioids, drugs, galore, Mountain City, everywhere. There's drugs. I think there's tons of lack of education.

Lack of education, poverty, drugs. And what I've learned. Crime. Crime. Isn't that interesting? You just said, let's repeat those four things. Lack of education, poverty, drugs, crime. You could say that about South Memphis.

The point is, doesn't matter where you're from, this exists around us everywhere in our country. Everywhere. And that feels like Pandora's box that has been opened to my eyes, that sometimes I wish I could shut, because it is everywhere. And the devastating part of it is there are children

who did not choose the zip code or dress at the time of their birth that get as infants plopped down into this chaos. And what happens to them? They live that life. And so that's all they know. And so then they have children who live that life because it's all they know. You know what I mean? Like it's, you can see it so clearly. I mean, I meet bio moms and dads that have lost their children. And as I learned their story, they were in foster care or they were raised where drugs were everywhere

or they were raised with food insecurity and they were raised not knowing who was coming in that door that night. You know, like, and now they have created that again for their family. They didn't mean to, it's all they knew, you know? And so it is this generational cycle that you see and every time you find a child at the bottom of that.

And so how does a little girl end up sleeping on the floor of what looks like a DMV? I'm asking, I mean, is it the parent gets arrested and the kid doesn't know where to go? Mom has only been loved by abusive men who offer drugs her whole life. And so when she's asked to choose between her child and the one man she thinks loves her

for the first time in her life, she chooses him. Really? So not only does the child go up in all that chaos, they also grow up abandoned. And I mean, that's one scenario I don't wanna go. No, I get it. And I mean, that's one scenario I don't wanna- No, I get it. And I mean, but abandonment, neglect, yeah. And so I don't know what happened for that little girl,

but I do know that neglect, abuse, those are the main reasons that we see children come into state's custody. Some would say, I'm gonna tee this one up for you, okay? Okay, I'm ready. Some would ask, some would question, is it really a God that would allow children to grow up like this?

Oh, I've been there. I remember when we brought home our first foster child, and I would rock him at night, and I would sing to him, and then I would just cry because I thought, how many more? Like I can't bring them all home. And I would get mad and I would yell at God and I would scream at God. But I was wrong. He is with them.

No, he doesn't want this for them, but he is there. He shows up all the time. I can't even tell you the stories of the ways that I've seen God show up. Yeah. But you get people to- I get the question. I absolutely get the question.

And I think he's big enough for us to ask it, scream it, cuss it at him. He feels our pain too. This is not the life he ever wanted either. Okay, so we'll get to that first kid, but get us there so you finish your eight weeks. Well, there was a big moment week seven. Yep. Yep.

So I see, I find out that this is actually a thing because when you're outside this world, you think a child is removed and you think, well, that's good. Now they're safe. Now they are just happy and clean and going to school, yay. You know, like that's what the rest of the world thinks. But now I'm learning that a child is removed

and there's a gap. Like there's this time, and sometimes it can be lengthy. Like it can be three days, two weeks, eight hours, four. I don't know, there's a gap between when that child is removed and when they find a place for that child to go. Meaning a foster home. Yes, or a kinship placement, which means a family member.

And is the gap satisfied supposedly by these DMV type places and the floors? You mean a kid could live in there alone, scared, cold, dirty for two weeks? It's happened post 2020. But even, okay, three days is still too much. 24 hours is too much. They've lost everything.

And they're literally sleeping on the floor and nobody. Yeah. Wow. And so all my mind is swirling. I'm sitting here, I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe that's the way this happens for a child. And then I just kept seeing this sick seven-year-old little girl,

and all of a sudden it was just flooding. I was like, she just lost her mama. She loves her mama. No matter what her mama has done, she wants her mama. And she was just told, you can't go to your mama. She just lost her home. Doesn't matter if we wouldn't live there. She did.

She lived there four hours ago. She lost all of her stuff, except what could be put in a black trash bag. I don't know, did she have a cat? Did she just lose her cat? Did she lose her dog? Did she have siblings that went somewhere else already that she's been separated from?

Her friends at school. Is she going to school tomorrow, the only place that she feels safe and she has friends and a teacher that she loves? Probably the only place she gets a good meal, lunch. Everything about this child's life came crashing down and that child is now sitting in an office, confused, scared, tired, hungry, just waiting. And don't get me wrong, caseworkers

are doing their absolute best. Caseworkers are doing a job in a place of business. And now there's three children in their cubicle or in their conference room. And that's when I got mad at God. And that's when I started yelling in my mind, how could you? Like, that little girl is yours and you've let her stay on a floor? Like, what are you doing? Like, how could you? Like, someone's got to help her. Someone has to tell her that she's loved and that she can do this and that she doesn't have to be scared

and that there's hope. Like, who's doing that for this child? And I was so mad. And I heard, these are my children. What are you going to do? And that made me madder because I thought, what am I going to do? I'm being obedient. I came to these darn classes. I'm sitting here. I'm doing my part. What are you doing? I tricked my husband into it. What do you want for me?

I'm doing my part, what are you doing? I tricked my husband into it, what do you want from me? He's a mess, like here we are, balling broken, we're ready, like we're doing all we can. I don't know what you want from us, but we are doing all we can. I'm a cheer and dance coach, we're gonna foster, you need to fix this, was my answer in that conference room to God.

So I get being mad at God. Week eight? Week eight. We finished week eight. And then we went back to our life. And, you know, Corey had said, we accept one child. Like, we are starting with one child, Rhonda. We'll be right back. by a parent or caregiver. All never thought it could happen to them, but with changes in routines, distractions, or a sleeping child, it can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get it in your head. Check the backseat.

A message from NHTSA and the Ad Council. Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Hurick. It is 2024 and we're gonna get through this together folks. My campaign promise to all of you here on Next Question is going to be a good time the whole time, we hope. I have some big news to share with you on our season premiere featuring Kris Jenner,

who's got some words of wisdom for me on being a good grandmother, or in her case, a good lovey. You know, you start thinking of what you want your grandmother name to be. Like, are they going to call me grandma like I called my grandmother? So I got to choose my name, which is now Lovey. I'll also be joined by Hillary Clinton, Renee Flemming,

Liz Cheney, to name a few. So come on in and take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations. Some of them, I promise, will actually put you in a good mood. I loved it. Your energy and joy. I'm squeezing every minute I can for you out of this season of Next Question. Last question, I promise, you have to go, I have to go, but it's been so fun. And I can't wait for you

to hear it. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Solea Mosin, and I've covered economic policy for years and reported on how it impacts people across the United States. In 2016, I saw how voters were leaning towards Trump and how so many Americans felt misunderstood by Washington. So I started The Big Take DC.

We dig into how money, politics, and power shaped government and the consequences for voters. It's an election year, so there's a lot of focus on the voters that TikTok is reaching. The initial reaction is like, oh, things are looking so resilient. I don't want to be too pessimistic, but I just don't see the political will down in Washington right now to change their tune.

I think the American electorate has been signaling that it expects a rematch of the 2020 election. These are unprecedented times. With new episodes every Thursday, you can listen to The Big Take DC on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts. Months would go by and they would call for a sibling set of three, a sibling set of five. We didn't have a vehicle that could, you know, can you take-

A set meaning like an entire family, like siblings. And they want to keep them together. And you're like, no, we're- Corey said one. But it would break my heart every time because I'm like, they're in an office, you know? And so- Oh, you're envisioning what you visited week seven

and you know where these kids are, so you're desperate, but you also know, I can't do it. And so they kept calling for these big sibling sets. Cory had told me one. And so I tell people the hardest part of this journey is I sold my car that I loved and bought a minivan. Oh. Oh.

Ha ha. A grocery getter. Yes, it's the hardest thing God ever asked me to do. I bought a minivan because I thought there could be more. If you build it, they will come. Land art. It actually was November of the next year, so November of 2015. You're almost a year.

Yeah. November 5th, 3.30 in the afternoon, was doing homework with Sophie and Mac at the Kitchen Island. And they called and they said a nine month old little boy needed a home. Nine month. It's one.

And you're like one? It's one. And so I said, well, ma'am, I'm gonna have to do something very uncharacteristic. And she was like, what's that? I was like, I need to ask my husband if this is okay. And she was like, what's that? I need to ask my husband if this is okay. That's a good idea. And when I tell people this story, I tell people that I called Cory and said, tell me you love me no matter what. And I did. But the heart of that conversation and the things that came after, so I was like, I can't say yes, if we're not saying yes. Like there can't be a day when this is really hard

and you look at me and say, you got us into this. And if that is where you are, that is fine. But if we say yes today, we are saying yes to this. Yeah, because if the wheels come off and this kid ends up being the second version of an exorcism, you don't want the blame. Yeah. We're gonna be blamed together. This has got to be a we, we're a team.

That makes complete sense. And he said, I'm on my way. And so, Wow. You have a really good husband. Such a good. Yeah, you really did. You really did. So he said, I'm on the way. Yeah. And so he came home and Sophie was 12 at the time. She was over the moon because it was a baby. She was so excited about a baby and Mac was nine and we were walking out the door and Mac said, is it a boy or a girl? And I said, it's a little boy. And he stopped. Now Mac is my calm in the storm. He's my peaceful.

He's the most obedient child you ever meet. And he stopped. He was like, I don't want him. I don't want the competition. There's there were no grandsons. There were no other boys. There were no nephews. Like it was all girls and Mac. And I was like, dude, we, we said we're going to do this. We already said, yes. He's like, I don't want him. So now like there's this flood of mom guilt, you know, you know, so Matt gets the car. He's so mad.

Sophie's excited. Corey is like nervous as I'll get out, and we get in the car and I see a flyer under our windshield wiper. Like you're at Walmart or something, but we're in our driveway. And I'm like, so I get out and I grab it, and I sit down and the energy in the van was like, and all of a sudden I said, guys, we can do this.

And they're like, what are you talking about? And I turn around this piece of paper, honest to goodness' truth, there's a penguin. It says motivational penguin, you can do this. And they're like, what are you talking about? And I turn around this piece of paper, honest to goodness' truth, there's a penguin. It says motivational penguin, you can do it. That was what was under our wings. It was some dirty good dooder, just do-gooder. It was the Lord, my friend. There was a do-gooder walking around the neighborhood,

putting happy penguins on everybody's window. Is that really? Motivational penguin, you can do it. A motivational penguin. So we get our penguin. I don't even understand a motivational penguin Are they up with that? I don't know somebody came over from the meth side of the track was very confused I think put that on your windshield, but anyway motivational taking my beautiful moment I mean, I don't I just I don't understand it, but anyway, we could do this. We got this, our motivational thing when it sold us.

And so we, we pull up. And so this is the first time I've ever seen it, seen removal day from the foster parent side. And so we were instructed to go the back door because there was still family out front and they were not happy. And so- Because they'd taken the child.

Yeah, yeah. So we come around- Wow, so hang on, I'm sorry. The family losing or giving up the child is literally in the front of the building with the family who is taking the child. Can that not get a little dangerous and contentious? I'm sure it can.

Yikes. Yeah. That doesn't even seem like a really good process either to me. And I don't, I mean, that was just our moment. Wow. Okay, so. So we pull up to the back door.

So clearly this isn't a woman who gave her son up. This is protective child service, someone going in and saying, you guys are doing everything wrong and this child cannot live in this environment. Took the child. This is not a matter of a mama not loving her child, that is true.

Wow. Okay. So we pull up and we're getting this child out of the back door, you know, so it kind of seems seedy, you know, and then it hits me, we don't have a car seat. Like, we've not had a baby in our home in nine years. Like, and I'm like, we don't have a car seat.

And they're like, oh, well, we've got one you can borrow, just bring it back tomorrow. And so it's this dirty car seat, you know, and so we grabbed that and then I'm like Why is his outfit so small because it's like skin tight on him and they were like well his outfit He was wearing was so filthy. We had to throw it away and we tried to bathe him in our drug testing sink but when you get him home, he desperately needs a bath and Then they handed me his one possession. It was a diaper bag, and as I'm walking away, she says, oh, by the way, don't put that in your house for the next 12 to 24 hours, so the roaches will crawl out.

That is disgusting. That is how it happens. And how old is this child, nine? Nine months. How old are children when they get lice? I mean, I would expect lice and all kinds of things in a situation, but I'm just saying children in general Lots of children come in with ice. Yes, but I mean this was like I

Was so brokenhearted in that moment for him like you're nine months old You've been bathed in a drug testing sink. You have nothing in the world, but a borrowed outfit you're being passed out of a back door and you've done nothing wrong like and Then we go home and I'd made a quick call to a friend before I left passed out of a back door and you've done nothing wrong." And then we go home and I'd made a quick call to a friend before I left. I was like, we've said yes to our first placement, say a prayer. Well, she said a prayer, but she got on the phone. And by the time we got home, there was a family in our guest room putting up a crib.

People were stopping by with high chairs, diapers, wipes, a baby bath, just showing up at our house. And that's when it hit me, like, how does a foster parent say yes if you don't have this kind of support? Because we had nothing. We now had a nine month old baby, we had nothing. But also, if Isaiah's mom, that was the little boy's name, if Isaiah's mom had this kind of support,

we wouldn't have Isaiah. You know, like, how important community is in that moment. But then also how do other people say yes? And so my mind was all over the place, like brokenhearted for removal day for that child and what it looked like for him. Brokenhearted for foster parents that want to say yes, but how do you go out and buy everything a nine-month-old needs at a moment's notice? And there's a clothing stop-in coming six weeks from now, $125. But the kid has nothing. So like, how do you do that as a foster parent? Luckily we had community. And then also brokenhearted for his mama.

Like she's living in that cycle that I described earlier. She doesn't have people she can call at a moment's notice and they show up with $500 to go to Target and get anything the boy needs. And here's a bed and here's a monitor and here, like, yeah, just, just, it's all so sad. And Isaiah, I guess, gets a bath. He does, he does.

How's Mac at this point? He does not want to touch Isaiah. Yes, he says Isaiah's snotty. And he does not want to touch him or be near him. Yeah, he's still mad. Yep. And he was mad. It was two, it was the two week mark.

He was supposed to be going to school and I was yelling, Mac, we go, let's go, let's go, get your backpack. I couldn't find him and I went and was looking for him and I found him in the crib with Isaiah, holding Isaiah, reading him a book. So at the two week mark, Matt cracked and he's been Bubba ever since. So yeah. Sounds a lot like his dad. They're both really good men. They're both really good men, yeah.

So where does this initial four way and foster care take you eventually with Isaiah? So Isaiah was in our home through foster care take you eventually with Isaiah? So Isaiah was in our home through foster care from November of 2015 until summer of 2018. Summer of 2018, his parental rights were terminated and we were actually allowed to adopt him in November, national adoption month, November of 2018. Corey said you weren't adopting. That's what he said. We not only adopted Isaiah, but in March of 2017, he had a full sibling brother that was

born that came into custody at three weeks old. And so Eli joined our family in 2017 because Corey called the caseworker and said, we want that baby. And so Eli came to us and we were able to adopt them both in November of 2018. Wow. And they are now your children. Isaiah is nine. I tell people he's everything a redhead should be. He's redheaded.

He's redheaded. Good looking devil, I'm sure. He's passionate. That's what we say. He feels everything deeply. And then Eli is seven and cutest little dimple ever. Yeah. Do they know the circumstances under which they became your children? They do what they can understand. I'm trying to keep it very age appropriate. They know that there were two parents that loved them very much because they did, but that they were sick, that's what we say right now, and they couldn't get better.

And so then we were asked if we would be there forever, mommy and daddy, and we were so excited. And so we said we would love to be there forever, mommy and daddy. And so you had two parents that you were born to, and they loved you very much, and then you have two parents that get to be your parents forever, and we daddy. And so you had two parents that, you know, you were born to and they loved you very much. And they have two parents that get to be your parents forever.

And we love you very much. And so you're very lucky little boys. Does that create confusion? You know, kids amaze me. Kids amazed. We had this moment. We go to Hilton head every summer and we were standing in the ocean. And Isaiah turned to me and goes, what did I look like when I was in your belly? And I said, no, remember buddy, you weren't in my belly.

And I named his mother and I said, you were in so and so's belly. Huh. I was like, no, remember, you were in her belly. And I was like, I can't explain this. And we'll have to ask God when we meet him. But this is what I know to be true. She was supposed to have you, and I was supposed to be your mama.

This was not a mistake. This is your story. And I was supposed to be your mama. And he sat there a minute and he goes, I love God. I was like, I do too. Wow. And that concludes part one of my conversation with Rhonda Paulson and guys, don't miss part two.

It's now available to listen to as we're about to dive into the incredible story of Isaiah 117 house. Together guys, we can change this country, but it's going to start with you. I'll see you in part two. Welcome to season nine of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I've got some big news to share with you in our season premiere featuring the one and only Kris Jenner. Oh my gosh, congratulations. That is very, very exciting. And that's just the beginning.

We'll also be joined by podcast host Jay Shetty, Hillary Clinton, Renee Flemming, Liz Cheney, and many more. So come on in, take a break from the incessant negativity for a weekly dose of fascinating conversations. Some of them, I promise, will actually put you in a good mood. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I never thought I'd take my three young kids to Sicily to solve a century-old mystery. But that's what I'm doing in my new podcast, The Sicilian Inheritance. Join us as we travel thousands of miles on the beautiful and crazy island of Sicily as I trace my roots back

through a mystery for the ages and untangle clues within my family's origin story, which is morphed like a game of telephone through the generations. Was our family matriarch killed in a land deal gone wrong? Or was it by the Sicilian mafia? A lover's quarrel? Or was she, as my father believed, a witch? Listen to The Sicilian Inheritance on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. From Wonder Media Network, I'm Jenny Kaplan, host of Womanica, a daily podcast

that introduces you to the fascinating lives of women history has forgotten. We've always been intrigued by stories of disappearances. Whether it's a fraudster from the 17th century who kept evading the authorities, or a novelist who taunted the Nazis and faked her own death. We all want to know. What happened next? To find out, listen to Wamanica on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.