An Army of Normal Folks - Sam Fledderjohann: The Kidney Transplant Chain That Saved 10 Lives (Pt 2)

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

While 94.6% of kidney donors give them to someone they know, Sam Fledderjohann felt called to give a kidney to anyone who needed it. Her being what is called an “altruistic donor” enabled a whole chain of kidney donations to be unlocked, resulting in 20 transplant surgeries over 2 days that saved the lives of 10 recipients!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with An Army of Normal Folks, and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Sam Flutterjohn right after these brief messages from our generous sponsor. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff.

And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing. French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. puzzler dressing dressing French dressing exactly now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears I thought to myself I bet I know what this is and now I definitely know what this is this is so weird this

is fun let's try this one Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful. And I should have seen it coming. That's awful, and I should have seen it coming. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. What have you asked two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions.

Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now MiniQuestions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. So we watched the video and he watched it with me. And then I watched it again.

What does the video do? The video just explains to you the risk what it means why a living donor is is better than a cadaver donor. It just explains what it will look like for you as a donor more so than what the recipient Yeah, well, I want to know that this I'm sorry, this is I'm going to keep this chronological but this is where the questions come in. You're watching a video that says,

we're gonna cut your body open. Well, they're cartoon characters. What's that? They're cartoon characters. Oh, it doesn't matter. It's still your body. And you're gonna be down for two weeks. You're going to have to be away from work,

and somebody's gonna have to take care of you And you're gonna have to go through all of this for someone That you have never met don't know don't love or don't care about right now Okay, but yet you're down for three weeks. You're down Somebody gets their life back Yeah, but you're giving up so much of your life, but they're getting their life back. How was that? How is that comparable? How is that comparable? I? just Somebody's child. Oh what getting your kidney taken out? Uh-huh

Worth it I do it if I had if I had five more I do all of them He gets his life back. How is I don't under I just it's a hard concept for me to understand how It was it was disruptive to our lives Sam Metaphorically, it feels like you're still hiding people under the sheets It's just does it It's beautiful I Have a hard time wrapping my brain around Not I guess that's the most difficult thing for me is that people wouldn't understand that I'm in a position

That I can physically I my children are born right? I'm still young enough to do it. I'm why would I not? Why would I not not? Why would he not? Why would I not? When I feel the need, I feel the desire. Why would I not? I an army of normal folks is all about just normal people you've never heard of seeing an area need and filling it. And I guess the question is, why would we not? So you watch a video and so you watch the video and they don't, they don't follow up. You have to follow up that way.

There's no pressure. They do a great job. And I followed up about three days later and said I'm in let's let's do the testing. And then they asked you do you have somebody that you're interested in? I said not particularly I just if they looking at you kind of crazy going really? You don't have anybody interested in but you're just willing to do this. Boy, they did a good job hiding it. I

think they were just I could see some excitement and but they didn't. I don't I didn't know I was really that crazy until I'm sitting here. So then they said, Okay, so they come this is pretty far away from where I'm at. It's about an hour and 45 minutes not terrible. But to do all that, it's a lot of testing. I'm walking in and out of work with my 24 hour urine cup and that I have to keep cold. And luckily it was still cold that time. I could keep in my car, no one had to know.

They send you for all the testing that they do the first thing. And if that works, they do the next thing and the blood work. And then you just keep going and do the testing. And as I did it, nobody knows at this time besides my husband. My parents don't, nobody knows. Because I didn't want to, at that time, I knew so securely that this was something

I was supposed to do. I didn't want to hear the comments. Don't do it, why are you crazy? Yeah, what are you doing? This is not healthy. And I was right. My mom really struggled with it at first. I'm a daughter, I get it.

She really struggled. So we went through the testing and went finally once you go through enough then you go to Ohio State and I met with a doctor, the surgeon who did all of our surgeries. He again reiterated the risks to me, to my body. To my body. What are the risks?

Minimal, for where I am health-wise, for me. My blood pressure. What are they? Your blood pressure goes up, so my blood pressure will be up for the rest of my life, but my pressures are very low So maybe a good thing so That's it. Yeah, I mean well, I have to drink two liters of water a day, which I struggle with them for the rest of your life Yeah, yeah, but okay, you know I was I So this is life-changing for you. Yeah, but not but life changing but not two

liters of water. So so that this gentleman who I didn't know but now that I do know gets to go have a regular life with his beautiful wife in his family. And I have to drink water. Okay. Come on now. What about? What about any other lifestyle changes for you? I can still I mean I work out. I've started going back to the gym I my plan is to run my next marathon in about two years year and a half I can still do all of those things I you know do I still get a little tired now even? Because this kidney that's left is growing, right?

So it grows to make up for the work the other kidney was doing. It will grow and I will be at 80% of where I was before as far as processing the urine and getting those impurities out of our body. Okay, let's talk about what a kidney does. So it basically takes the junk and it, that's what our urine is, right? the junk and it processes it and gets it all out of our body. When they filter it's a filter. That's all it is. And it filters the impurities out of our body so that we don't have poisons and toxins in our body.

And if it's not working, then those poisons and toxins can't filter out of your body. And that's what dialysis does artificially. But you can only do that so long as a person with a failed kidney. Right. And then you write the kidney can't tolerate it anymore. What was exciting for me and I think I'm jumping around here but when Dr. Raja came in he said first of all out of all 10 kidneys I had the best kidney. So I always tell Scott that.

You had the best kidney? I had the best kidney. So there you go. Gold star kidney. Yeah, I had a gold star. Before they could, they put my kidney on top of his back kidney because they don't take the kidney out of the recipient. So they put my kidney on top of his kidney and they only take, because there's so many

arteries and veins that run around our kidneys so that blood flow is all there. They only take the tube that, I forget the name of it, forgive me, that does the filtering through the kidney, just that one. So they put that right on top of the kidney that's in there and before they could they connected it before they could unclamp it it was producing urine in his body well they could even unclamp it so it was like working immediately all right we did jump ahead sorry so that excites me more than anything because there's so much more to the story that is crazy

Because this isn't a one-person thing, right? Ultimately, so they they get so they say okay, you got a good kidney you're crazy, but we love it and You don't have anybody in mind you're just willing to do this out of the kindness of your heart. We'll give you a call. Yep. Yep. So you went home.

Right. Then whatever. Yep. I had just asked, you have to have a caregiver that's available to you for at least the first two weeks. They said. And I said the only thing I would ask, I't care who it is because they asked you all these things Do you care what religion what race do you care? You know any that I don't care. I don't care

This is humanity, right? And what if it was somebody on in? Prison for murder. Okay, we talked about that actually so I didn't I did. Well, okay, I'll be real honest I said the only thing if you if I I wouldn't say no but that it would cause me pause if it was an abusive man. A man and how would they know? Right. But I said, but there's a social worker.

So you sit with the social worker, they do a whole psych analysis to make sure that you are going to be okay. Right. They do, they do due diligence. They, they put you through it to make sure it's, it's realistic, but they do have the social side of it, social work side of it, too And I said if you said one thing I'd said I struggle With an abusive man even rehabilitated that would be a struggle for me now You know why it's so interesting about your background. That was your one pause. That was my one pause

Yeah, completely understand. Yeah. Yeah and Then you feel guilty saying that at the same time, you know, because it's that just, it's obviously a me thing. And she said to me, the people who get this far, they've also been through this. And we don't allow somebody who is been on drugs within this much time or been in jail in this much time or in this much, you know, so I went into it not knowing it could have been some man who did this, but that was also healing for me because I had to make peace with that at the same time.

But they, you know, she did assure me at the time, I don't know that Scott was even in their mind because this chain that we're getting to hadn't been put together. And she, but she did say that they have a, you know they have to go through the this proper steps too. So that would be very unlikely but she couldn't promise it Okay, so you go home. Oh and something about My husband's a farmer. We can't be down when we're harvesting, right? It's I could make it work if I have to but for my family that the one thing I would ask can it not be you know beginning of October to mid-November for me and and she was like we would yeah we will do that what's your husband for them so he they are a 80 year old farm and he is a green so we just stopped milking two

years ago after 83 years and so there's no more dairy, yay. And so he's a grain. We have steer and he's a grain farmer, so corn, soybeans. Got it, okay. So can't do it during harvest, now. You've watched the video, your husband realized when he married you, you were nuts,

so this wasn't that shocking to him. You really hadn't told anybody yet outside of Ohio State people. And you kind of go home and you're on the list of people who are willing to give your kidney which is still I just can't even get you say why not but that's a lot to me. Okay, so what happens? So I get a call, I want to say beginning of November, and they say, hey, Sam, are you still in? Because time had passed.

Are you still in for the donation? I said, absolutely, what are you thinking? What timeline are you thinking? Because I'm trying to plan ahead for work. Because my job is, we have a lot of sports, I know I'm going to be out, so I'm trying to, what are you thinking? And he said, well, we're working on something very special.

And I can't give you the details yet because it's still preliminary. We just need to know if you're still in because you're a major part of that. And he's like, oh, sure. Yep. Just keep me as soon as you know something, let me know. And he said, absolutely. Good news. Great news.

You can just see the excitement in his voice and he hangs up. And I don't hear from him for two weeks. Well, now I'm kind of like, is this, they gonna tell me like two days before? I don't know when I'm, when this is happening. So then I- Are you having anxiety? Mostly about making sure that my commitments to other people are taken care of, not about giving.

Got it. No second guesses in my head, absolutely not. And there never was from day one. Like I knew, I knew this. The second I felt it in my spirit, I knew that this, I had to do it. We'll be right back. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles.

And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Ha ha ha! Oh, that's good. Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered

straight to your ears. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun. Let's try this one. Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. That's awful. And I should have seen it coming. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in 10 kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad, or the seriously smart podcaster.

It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit TalkAboutVaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts

or wherever you get your podcasts. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends,

EGOT winner Viola Davis, and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeart radio

app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Then I called them and I said, hey, and he's like, oh, he's like, well, your ears must be burning. He said, we were just talking about you. We were going to call you this afternoon. I said, okay, great. Let's talk about it. And he goes on to explain to me that we've put together a chain. Well, this is new to me.

This is not jargon that I know. Yeah. Well, and until Mike told me about this quote chain, I didn't even know this existed This is phenomenal. So really explain it for our listeners. I would do the best I can because I didn't understand the Miracle that it really was until I went to the follow-up and we got to meet all I did I didn't but they explained to me At the time they said we have a recipient we just need you to take a DNA test to make sure that your DNAs will Tolerate each other right and so I'm just excited. I'm like, oh my gosh somebody's life is gonna change. I'm so excited

I'm like just praying this DNA test matches and he said well and Then it's what's actually going to be a chain donation a donation chain He's like, well be the biggest one Ohio State's ever done He's like and we believe the biggest one in the's ever done. He's like, and we believe the biggest one in the nation, as far as that's been confirmed in the short, it hasn't been the shortest amount of time chain donation ever in the United States. Yeah, that started with you. Yeah, yeah. Is it? Mike did. It's the biggest one in the

shortest amount of time they had one that they went all over the like, like one last year, I could be lying. Mike said that he was told that by the people to out of state. Maybe it's the way they're publicizing it's definitely the Ohio state's biggest. It might be the biggest in the state. That's kind of where they left it in the biggest in one facility in biggest at Wexner. Nonetheless, it's a big chain, but people listen are like, okay, what's the chain? So, so we got to tell them. So they at the time, they explained to me that, so your recipient has somebody who would donate to him, but he's not a match. And that person is going to donate to somebody else.

And they sell it to me like, that's really that really cool, because you did this. Now this person can get to get one too. I'm like, oh, that is amazing. That is amazing. And they're like, when we're working on get we're working on some details, but we think it'll be the largest ever. And I was like, Oh, that's really cool. Still don't quite understand it. I'm like, Oh, cool. How fun. So what any, you know, just to be a part of the hospital, everybody could open to be a part of that. That's pretty neat. So I didn't until we went to our pre-op appointment,

the Thursday before, which would have been early December, when they sat down and explained to me that the amount of people and the amount of surgeries and the coordinating and how that was all going to work, I didn't even at that time grasp it. So my kidneys person who was donating on his behalf was doing to somebody else who also had a person to know down their behalf but wasn't a match so though they donated to somebody actually that only lives like two towns over he had he needed kidney and then his sister donated on his behalf to somebody else yes so my correct. This is my rudimentary understanding.

Okay. Alex sitting over there needs a kidney. I love Alex and I want him to have a kidney. So I go in and get tested. Unfortunately, my kidney doesn't match Alex, so they can't use me. And then Cassius needs a kidney and Mine is Good for Cassius, but not Alex, but I don't know Cassius right. I don't know anything about Cassius, right? I ain't it's been saving Cassius

I'm interested and I'm willing to have my body violated and cut open and deal with two gallons of water or whatever He said for My best friend Alex or my brother Alex. Yeah, sure. But not for somebody else. Sure. So somewhere along the line needs to come somebody who says, I'm willing to give mine to whoever because I just want to help. And that starts the chain that one goes to this person but now because mine doesn't go to Alex, well, if Alex is getting a kidney from that person,

yes, you can take my kidney for another person that matches and so on down the line. And then it creates this chain of donors that can't donate their kidney to the people that they care about, but they'll trade their kidney to go to somebody else that they care about. But they'll trade their kidney to go to somebody else that they do match with that they don't know. Because the person they care about is going to also get a kidney from someone they don't know. But it only starts when Sam

says yes. Right. But no, that's just right as a group isn't that humanity at its best like that is That's Beautiful how many people got kidneys 10? 10 the lady at the very end. She didn't have somebody to Donate on her behalf, but she had been dialysis for several years and was not doing well and she last I heard She was doing amazing. So 10 people within two days of surgery receive their kidneys. Meaning 20 surgeries, 20 surgeries within 10 donors, 10 recipients, recipients. Nobody got a kidney from the person who originally was going to donate their kidney to him because they

weren't matched. But everybody got a kidney as a result of the chain and 10 lives were saved Ten people got their lives back When did this go on December 13th was a month ago, yeah, yeah Were you scared going in to surgery Most people avoid that like the play right and I would write right right yeah I'm not going into on a surgery for myself voluntarily No, I know that P. It was peace beyond understanding was your husband's career

He wouldn't tell me that when no I Mean it would freak me out if my wife was yeah,. No, he he is very good at knowing how to love me. Yeah, he's mastered that. Good for him. Yeah. He'll listen to this. So what's his first time? Mike. Mike gets the gold star. Yeah. So this two days happens a month ago and tell me about your experience after the day of surgery. Well, I didn't so my nerve blockers didn't work. So I had I had a little bit of pain.

Your nerve blockers, the nerve blockers up. So there's three different incisions, you have the big one where he takes two hands and goes up and gets it and then you have the two up here up top where they put in the instruments and this is in the cutters and stuff. You volunteered for three incisions, one of which two hands goes inside. You are very small, Sam, you are nuts. That's

incredible. I don't even know that see, I feel like the volunteer isn't the right word. Because I obeyed. You what I obeyed. I obeyed that call. That's all I did. Like I, I okay. Okay. So you woke up and your nerve blocks didn't work. So now, you know, no kindness goes unpunished, you get to sit there in pain. For how long? About seven hours. It was it was that was, but that only happened to me.

That is not normal. I don't discourage anybody. It was that is not normal. It was it was the most probably the most selfish I went through that whole thing where I was really just what did I do? I'm in a lot of pain. So I've not shared that with anybody besides my family. Well now you just started with thousands of people. So then an opportunity happened. I think a day and a half later or two days. Before we left? Yeah. Yeah. So we were getting ready to leave and on that with the surgery was Friday. We were getting him ready to leave Sunday afternoon as the donors we can leave and The nurse came in and she said your recipient would like to meet you no pressure You absolutely do not have to do this and I'm like, oh for sure. Let's you know my biggest thing when they said no pressure

I don't want to meet your you know, you don't have to meet him. My thing was I was no pressure for you This is a gift. You don't know me. You don't need to meet me. You don't this is a gift. I need to know nothing and But he was willing then for sure and I we don't know what's a man at that time I said absolutely and these and the nurse did say to me I just want to give you a little bit of warning or just so you're not taking it back that your Recipient is deaf now. Stop. Okay. Go back and tell us why that's incredible. So when I went to college the first year I went as a deaf studies major and signed for a couple of years and then used to sign in church a little bit but I haven't signed in 15

years. But the point is I know early in life, you actually had some heart for hearing impaired and you learned to sign in college. And then you walk in and your recipient is deaf. What a weird life connection. So when she says it to us, she said, he speaks, he's lost it in childhood. So he speaks well. And as soon as he says, I just, my husband's standing behind me and I just turn around and look at him and he just goes, you got to be kidding me. Like just too many things are, you know, lining up here.

And then the nurse took it the wrong way. She's like, oh my goodness, is that okay? And I'm like, no, that's, that's more than okay. That's, that's pretty beautiful. That is so for me, it was a full circle moment already because I knew I was supposed to do something and then it was just reaffirmed that this guy was supposed to be my guy. This is who was supposed to have it. So was your first conversations with your recipient signing?

So I wasn't aware. I obviously didn't know Scott at all. So I walked in and introduced myself and sign and asked how he was feeling inside and you know told him my name and sign and then of course this course Scott's very verbal so he can speak very clearly very well well-spoken gentlemen. So yeah that's how we met and the nurses as we left the nurses said we do this all the time we haven't cried in a long time she's like that one was too much that one they were all solving everybody's crying. So yeah, yeah So yeah, we got what did he say to you?

I just of course. Thank you. Thank you He was up and I don't know how I was feeling but he pulled it off He and his wife I remember she's saying he had his of course his he still had his And his wife, I remember she's saying, he had his, of course, he still had his bag on. And yeah, his catheter was still in. And she said, she's like, most people wouldn't want to see that. She's like, that bag makes me so excited because it was just producing so well. He's feeling, yeah. He's producing urine.

The great, yeah, I don't know if producing urine is usually something to be really excited about, but I get in this case, this is a hooray moment. Absolutely. We'll be right back. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff.

And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Ha ha ha. Oh, that was good.

Now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun. Let's try this one. Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more.

Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful. And I should have seen it coming. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains or often somewhere in between. Listen to The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in ten kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously. The best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit TalkAboutVaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. What if you ask two different people the same

set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courteney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis, and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now, Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories,

and new connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 7 Questions, Limitless Answers. How are you a month later? I am a little surprised by so many people being aware of this. When I went into it, it was never going to be something. But how so thankful.

I am so thankful to be a part of something so special. Never dreamed it would turn into something this big. And my number one answer is I'm so thankful. So. Physically, how am I? Okay, I just, I can't get my pants close quite yet, but you know, I'm not 24. Are you swollen?

Yeah, it's still swollen. Yeah, it's still above it, above the, so I don't usually carry much weight in my waist, and I do. It'll go away. I hope so. They said that they said he said it would at the appointment. I had some trouble eating afterwards. But when we went to our follow up that was normal and eating much I mean,

I was in Memphis last night, we did just fine eating so and just 20 minutes ago you said on balance if I had five kidneys that giveaway for more 100% No questions asked 10 times. Absolutely. I mean, I get and I know I don't like I said, I will never reach out to that family and say how is he doing? It's his gift is his life to live. It's his but I also get to know that he has a chance. How lucky am I? I'm so thankful. So so thankful. Has it? Have you leveled with yourself? And has it dawned on you without you this chain of 10 people doesn't happen and there

are 10 people's lives not one that are at the very least monumentally changed at the worst saved as a result of your selflessness and gift? I mean, are you willing to allow yourself that? Because that's the truth, Sam. I mean, I appreciate that that's a fact and it's just not, I don't know that I'm specifically humble about that because I just, that's amazing. It's amazing for them. It's amazing that this happened.

It's amazing that the doctors worked this out. I don't look in the mirror and go, wow. People get their lives back. That's amazing. That's what's amazing that this chain worked. Albert Pike was an 18th century Freemason and he said the following, what we do for ourselves in this life dies with us. What we do for another

lasts forever and remains immortal. And he said that on speaking about the value of a legacy. You protected your mom at 15. That's a legacy. You have enriched the lives of people all over your county who are the most disadvantaged among us by taking a small organization that did bowling and blowing it up to bowling and flag football and equestrian events and children who can now put down their stuffed animals because they can touch a horse and parents lives

enriched by being able to see their special needs children smile and that's a legacy and now this Legacy and I mean this innocuous unknown Farmer's wife with a weird last name hanging out in rural, Ohio My god, you've changed lives Okay How blessed am I pretty lucky How blessed am I? Pretty lucky. Well, you still got a lot of life left and I guess the legacy is going to keep getting

building. Well, while we were talking, we were rudely interrupted by this Canuck that just popped down next to you. Mike Humes, my brother. How are you? I'm great. How are you coach? I'm great. He just walked in in the middle of the interview. Um, and uh, it was perfect timing. And you know, I have a face for radio. The camera time doesn't grow on a busy street. So everybody's surprised surprise. I introduced you to Mike as my buddy at the top of the show and he just plopped down next to us. Where you been?

You've been a meeting or something? You out saving the world? What are you doing? I do a lot of work for the City of Memphis, one of my clients, and the parks director was leaving so I just gave him a download. He's leaving to go to one park from Mecklenburg County in Charlotte. Got it. So I just gave him a download. He's leaving to go to one parks from Mecklenburg County in Charlotte. Got it. So I just gave him a download of the 1.4 billion dollars of business or so we've done in the last nine years in Memphis. Yeah, I've, uh, I bragged on you early. Oh, and Sam said, I didn't know any of that. Must have been a short conversation. No, I talked about the tennis center. I talked about the multi-use sports complex

over by the Liberty Bowl. I talked about the naming rights of the Liberty Bowl, the naming rights for the center, and how you left us for Phoenix and then chose to come back to Memphis actually without any of that stuff in mind, and have now had such a lasting impact on our city. And you know, how dear a friend you've been to me, and that I was introduced to your son's

story just over lunches as leukemia came. And understanding how he lost his hearing and all of it. And then I remember you telling me that he was in renal failure and if he didn't get a kidney transplant, it was not gonna be good. And then not long ago, you telling me, my son's doing great, he's got a kidney

and it's amazing story about this chain and everything else. story about this chain and everything else and I and how unbelievable that we're sitting here together and you're sitting next to Sam you know it's it's life-changing I have to him second I was reading Scotty's birth announcement this morning. That was written a month after he was born. And now to see where he is today is what you've done is I

Told people when I came back This was pre Christmas. They said after Christmas. How was your Christmas? I said Was another day. I had my Christmas on December 13th Scotty got this kid. When you Okay, so everybody is tearing up at this table. When you man like when you when you realize that that December 13th Christmas for your son Scotty doesn't happen without

the insane level of selflessness from the woman sitting next to you, you know, what do you... I mean, I think she's crazy. I think she's absolutely nuts to allow two hands to go in her body, rip her open and go through all the pain and everything for someone she doesn't even know. Can you even fathom that level of generosity? Selflessness, generosity, just deep down good to your bones.

It was really moving that people I told the story to afterwards, and even you said this, and Alex said this, said, light of everything going on, this gives me hope. Just this is an example of there's hope in the world. There's good people doing great things. And to me, that's what has been left with me and will stay with me forever. And then as I did more homework, I got to know the medical team, Dr. Rajab who oversees this amazing transplant center, Wexner Medical Center at Ohio State. And then following it afterwards through different channels to understand all the connections

that these people had that none of them would have known a month prior. Just a month. Only a month. I think you got a call November 10th. And you were given your kidney the December 13th. Yes. So we had been dealing with, so Scotty had a kidney transplant in 2013, his mom gave him.

Three years into that, there are some repercussions on living donors, whatever it might be, your pancreas, your liver, your kidney, if you have mono, it has the ability to manifest itself in the form of leukemia, lymphoma. That happened to him. So he has a kidney transplant, he's hearing impaired, he gets cancer. You know, he was trying out for the US deaf national team playing the world championships two years later playing the Deaf Olympics in Italy never told his coaches that he never told his coaches he had cancer no they would you know I

knew the coaches pretty well and I have some ties to the NHL and these guys that were coaching and they said what's up with Scottie? His energy level isn't there. It's like, it'll come. He just wouldn't tell them. Tough kid. And then renal failure. Yeah. So 26 months ago, you know, there was a lot of work going on behind the scenes. You get a transplant, you get cancer, it ends, there's renal failure, and it declines, declines, declines to the point where nine months before his transplant, he had iguan dialysis. We were hoping he would get a transplant before he had to go on dialysis. We were hoping he would get a transplant before he had to go on dialysis because it's a very

unpleasant experience, let alone going through a kidney transplant and surgery. Dialysis in and of itself is three days a week, six, seven hours, what it does to your body. I mean, it's therapeutic, it's not a cure. It allows you to function. And this is... But its efficiency wanes over time. It's not a...

When you're on dialysis, you may not be dying and you can live for a while, but you are daily by daily Integrating the rest of your body. It's not a long-term for no fix if If in the cards, you knew my lifespan was another 78 years If you had to stay on dialysis that would be cut by 40 50 60 percent So that's why it's so important for anyone on dialysis

to get a kidney and a healthy kidney. And this is sort of funny. I remember Saturday morning, Dr. Rajab and the nurses were like, so excited about how many gallons of urine he was producing. Yay! And it was like watching the clock. And we would watch his bag fill up and how many liters and how quick it was happening. And Dr. Rajab came in Sunday

morning and said, I am amazed. You processed five gallons of urine in 48 hours. He said, your kidney is doing dynamite. You got the best kidney of all of them. He said, the gold star, the earlier we called it the gold star. He said, and I don't tell all the patients that, but I'm telling you, you get the best kidney. It was the perfect fit. We'll be right back. Something about Mary Poppins?

Something about Mary Poppins, exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler. Dressing. Dressing.

French dressing. Exactly. Ha ha ha. Oh, French dressing. Exactly! Oh, that was good. Now you can get your Daily Puzzle Nuggets delivered straight to your ears. I thought to myself, I bet I know what this is. And now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird. This is fun.

Let's try this one. Our brand new season features special guests like Chuck Bryant, Mayim Bialik, Julie Bowen, Sam Sanders, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and lots more. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful. And I should have seen it coming. It's awful and I should have seen it coming.

I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious, one in ten kids vape serious, which warrants a serious

conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you. To start the conversation, visit TalkAboutVaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions?

Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, Minnie Questions. Over the years, we've had some incredible guests. People like Courtney Cox, star of the infinitely beloved sitcom Friends, EGOT winner Viola Davis and former Prime Minister of the UK Tony Blair. And now Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson. Each episode is a new person's story with new lessons, new memories and new

connections to show us how we're both similar and unique. Listen to Mini Questions on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Maybe you've already talked about this too, but I tested, but they didn't tell me why. I just know I'm old and fat and I just, you know. Did you learn that on Facebook or up in here? Because I recently know I'm old and fat. And I just, you know. Did you learn that on Facebook or up in here? Because I recently learned I'm fat on Facebook. No, I learn that every day. Okay, good, that's fine.

That's why I said I get a face for radio. Yeah, the thing is, Scotty had everybody's life test, nobody matched. So his wife's brother got to the one yard line and his testing, the doctors were concerned about some level of antibody. Said, you thought you were going to work? You didn't.

That would have been a one to one surgery. And Sean, who's also a selfless guy, Scotty's brother-in-law, said, I don't care. I'm staying in so long as me giving a kidney is gonna help Scotty get a kidney. And down the line for 10 people. So then you get a call November 10th. Sam. Sam does. And then the whole thing is coming together and none of us really comprehended how all of this work had been done for months and months and months well over a year of trying to bring this 20-person exchange together. I don't think they started out and said let's build a roadmap for a 20-person exchange. It just connected. It just all worked out.

Sean tested matched this person. That person's, whoever their relative was, said okay you're not a match for, I'll just call them your uncle, your father, your brother, your cousin, but you're a match for this other person who's on our list. They just kept doing that and the pieces came together with Sam being the final piece of that 20 person puzzle. Which if Sam, who has no relationship to anybody in the chain, doesn't say I'm in, the chain breaks. If Sam said on that call on November 10th, you know what, I changed my mind and we've got a plan, we're going to Europe for Christmas, the dates don't work.

Some of the people would have gotten a kidney, but I know Scotty wouldn't have and I don't think there would have been anywhere near the 20 person exchange. But let's just take me out of it. What if Sean had been a match that had been that would have been great for Scott, right? Because Scott would have got his kidney, but all those other people's wouldn't. What about that? So it all worked out that Sean didn't match. I mean, at the end of the day, it was actually a blessing for the entire group.

So Sean didn't match. So what looked like, Oh no, we don't have a kidney ended up being a blessing for far more people than just Scott. Well, yeah, we got that call in October and we were thinking he was going to use doing so well in the testing. He was going to get to the finish line. Finally, this is going to happen.. Scott is gonna get off dialysis. And then I was like, just a fit. But behind the scenes, that medical team were just amazing. We're doing all of this work and I still don't understand how they eventually found you Sam volunteered dude, they didn't fill out an application. Oh, I know that but I don't know how

because you did that a long time before November. I did but I asked years ago. No, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. I was done with my testing just in May. In May. Can you believe that? I felt, yeah, I felt. It's very cool that we're sitting here. This is so fresh. It only happened a month ago. And your call to do this that rang up in your crazy head was only in May. I mean, we're talking six, seven months here, and it all came together and 10 people's lives changed. Which has never happened to have a 20 person exchange. They believe in the country, but the biggest one they had done at Ohio State was five. Yeah, you told me, Alex and I kinda,

we always wanna to be accurate but They think this may be the largest chain ever conducted in the United States And that was you they the people to how the state told you dr. Rajab said that yeah And whether it's the biggest or one of the biggest is still phenomenal whether it was 2018 or four You know if it helped 4 people or 10 people, it's still all remarkable. But, you know, we're sitting here today with Sam because of an altruistic donor of the 20, or of the 10, we had one altruistic donor who made it happen. All other nine people had some kind of connection to the recipients. And the one who didn't is on your left. Right.

When you consider the depth of that selflessness and that gift, I'm sure you've said it to her before, but what were your words to her? Suzanne? Yeah. I didn't really speak that day because I thought that was her and Scotty's moment. All I said and Ali, my daughter was there too and I think it was just the three of us. Oh and Scotty's wife Lizzie was there. All I said was thank you. You've saved Scotty's life. You've benefited so many people. Done this selflessly. This was meant to happen, but you know, I didn't look at that time when we met as

I stayed in the background and said, this is Scotty's moment to make that connection. Yeah. And what was remarkable was how you walked in the room and immediately use sign language and all of us were just blown away and you know, your sign language is very good. And Scotty was blown away. He's like talking to you. And he said afterwards, he said, I had no idea.

Well, neither did Sam. Yeah. It's feels as if this entire thing has a little bit of divinity to it. I believe that. I believe that. I believe that. What about you girl? Oh, a hundred percent. And just like I said before, the connection I felt to just them as a couple and your daughter

is just she's a precious young lady. And she came from Mike. He's precious. Well, I don't know Mike, but you could just, just the energy of that family. You know, when apples fall from a tree, our apple tree was on the top of the hill. So it fell down. The kind of people that you just sit back and say, I'm just so happy for them and that they get to do this.

They're kind of people you want to see succeed. I left there and again, I don't know how to explain it. Almost feel selfish to say it, but that you can, this young couple married two years, shy of two years at the time. Yeah, their anniversary was New Year's Eve. Yeah, so that they get this chance and that I got to be a small little part of the joys that lay ahead for them

There were 11 months into their marriage when he had his end stage renal failure I don't I can't help but Your dna a piece of you is walking around on another person's human body allowing them to breathe That's just phenomenal I mean Breathing is also essential. So I mean, he's peeing too. Yeah, that's true. Um, breathing is also essential. So, I mean, you bring a whole new light to the saying you need to give of yourself. I mean, you literally gave of yourself. Well, that DNA, they scientifically, it says that the DNA can't affect him for up to two years.

So if he all of a sudden becomes like a big history buff or eating a bunch of weird stuff. He gets involved in special ones. Yeah, he gets involved. Sorry about that. Oh, so. He becomes a farmer. Yeah, he starts canning.

And donating gold books, homes, peaches, pickle beets or something. Cook books. You know, Sam, as I was thinking about what you did, I couldn't help but wonder, what if there were 100 Sams? And is there a need for 100 Sams? Is this really that big a deal or is this

a one off? Alex, being his steadfast producer self, came up with some information. According to the Organ Procurement and Transplant Network, who knew, but there is one, there are today 104,840 people on the transplant transplant wait list and 90,506 people today need a kidney the average person need of a kidney transplant waits five years meaning they there in Mike's words, they're undergoing five years of unpleasantness. There's only around 25,000 kidney transplants a year against the 90,000 who need one. a quarter maybe 28 percent which means 72 percent of people who need a kidney are struggling. It leads to an estimated 12 people die every day because they didn't get the opportunity to get a kidney 12 people a day out of this 90,000 needing one.

Alex says it would be an awesome thing to build an army of transplant donors. And Alex even says he's thinking about it now. He said you just need two weeks to recover. So Sam, not only does your story honestly save without your chain save 10 people's lives. Maybe you could say more because if your selflessness in your story inspires people like Alex and others, when they realize there's 100,000 people right now 12 a day of which are dying without a kid. If you put together 1000 people willing to give a kidney with 10,000 with with ten person chains

Guess what? Everybody gets kidney Less than a month of your less than a month of your life and I'm basically back to normal In his life is back to normal what hadn't been I? Yeah, text me last week got my staples removed, I can drive again. A big moment. And this doesn't really matter.

I was saying to Alec, we need to toughen him up because he broke his finger hitting a bug, but. Yeah, Alec's broke his finger. What'd you do? Hit a bug? Hit a bug, yeah. And I said, oh no. Your kid's got cancer, kidney, death, everything else, playing hockey, not telling his people go into Italy to play a national championship. Alex is over here splinted

up because he tried to kill a bug. Yeah. Good grief. So I had, I've had back surgery since. I just had a spinal surgery. Lovely. When, and I've had back surgery since I just had a spinal surgery lovely when and I've had eight years of nerve blocks I only tell you that because When the doctors at Campbell Clinic said okay, we're gonna schedule for December 12th said I can't do it. I Didn't say why I said when's the next date so it was January the third and my surgery was I said, when's the next date? So it was January the third. And my surgery was, they call minimally invasive, but that's like a banker saying, we have low introductory rates.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So all of that, like, it just made me feel like, okay, what I'm gonna to go through is easy. Well, it's also interesting to think about. You had to go through that to fix yourself.

Can you imagine saying, you know what? I'm going to fill out an application and do this. I'm just going to do it because Sam did. Yeah. I'm going to go through all this crap and it doesn't benefit a thing for me. In fact, it takes a little bit from me. I mean, just the selflessness, it's unbelievable. The thing is, these stats tell us that,

Sam, maybe your story inspires other people and there'll be other lives saved as a result of your selflessness. It's very possible. That would be beautiful. She does get a lot out of it though, Bill. As you say, you get a thousand times more out of it than you ever put into it. You do. And Sam said the same. So here's the deal, Sam. We're an army of normal folks.

We celebrate normal people you've never heard of that do extraordinary things. I have been doing this now, what Alex, two years? Almost. Almost two years. And I've interviewed people that have started organizations that are now countrywide that affect thousands and thousands of lives, interviewed just all walks and manner of life. And it's not a competition and we all celebrate each other. Yes. And it's not a competition. And we all celebrate each other. And that's the whole power behind this army of normal folks.

If we continue to celebrate each other, we don't care if you're white, black, Asian, Latino, Hispanic, gay, straight, Republican, progressive. I'm trying to come up with all of the categories that we seem to divide ourselves into we don't matter Any of those categories because if you do something extraordinary for another person that's not as vanished as you I can celebrate you regardless of how I vote who I love or what I look like and Likewise, if I'm doing the same you can celebrate me and then from that foundation Maybe we can start having civil non-threatening conversations about the stuff that matters because that defines us as human beings first not sexuality or faith or politics right

so after this almost two years we've been doing this I'm gonna say to you Sam I have not teared up at this table today your selflessness and the profound effect you've had by just being a human being that saw an area need and filled it is inspiring to me. I feel so little next to you. You make me want to be better. So I'm going to wrap this way. Thanks for coming to Memphis. I hope you eat some more barbecue. I hope the swelling around your belly goes down and you enjoy the marathon. I hope you enjoy your two liters of water for the rest of your life. I know you're going to do continue to do amazing things in your community with the handicapped and the special needs.

But I'm going to let it in this way. Mike, close us out with whichever you want to say to Sam. Well, I, you know, in a very, very tiny, small way started a conversation with Bill and Alex two and a half years ago just about this concept. So I have really nothing to do with it but I am an avid consumer and every time I drive to Ohio it's a nine hour drive. One turned into 12 with traffic. The only thing I listen to is an army of normal folks and every one of them inspires me but none of them touched me personally. This one has and I know on December 13th I felt differently about

world and people and how much more we can do together. And that I have to stop just checking the boxes and setting alarms and doing the same thing. I wanna do something different. Because you inspire me and you save my son's life. Can't end any better than that, Sam. Thanks for being here. Thank you. And thank you for joining us this week.

If Sam Flutterjohn has inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action by donating a kidney by- Come on, Bill. There's a need. Don't say that tentatively. We already talked about this in the podcast. I mean, honestly though... A lot of kidneys need to be donated.

Yeah, I get it, but my gosh. I mean, that's an extreme gift. It's unbelievable. Well, if she has inspired you to donate a kidney or getting involved with Special Olympics or something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at NormalFolks.us and I swear to you I will respond. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social subscribe to the podcast,

rate and review it. Join the army at normal folks dot us. Consider becoming a premium member there. Any and all of these things that will help us grow an army of normal folks. Remember, guys, the more listeners, the more impact. Thanks to our producer, our light labs. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can.

Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. I'm AJ Jacobs, and my current obsession is the Dressing. Dressing. Oh, French dressing. Exactly. Oh, that's good. I'm AJ Jacobs and my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, The Puzzler.

Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly. This is fun. You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to The Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers,

but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal gory details of horrific acts. I delve into the good, the bad, the difficult and all the nuance I can find. Because these are the stories that we need to know to understand the intersection of society, justice and the fascinating workings of the human psyche. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between.

Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if you ask two different people the same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver, and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast and now, Minnie Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe and Cord Jefferson.

Listen to Minnie Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This past season on my podcast, Here's the Thing, I spoke with more actors, musicians, policy makers, and so many other fascinating people, like writer and actor, Dan Aykroyd.

I love writing more than anything. You're left alone, you do three hours in the morning, you write. Three hours in the afternoon, go pick up a kid from school and write at night. And after nine hours, you come out with seven pages and then you're moving on. Listen to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.