An Army of Normal Folks - Second Place to Peyton Manning: And Other Lessons That Will Level Up Your Life (Pt 2)

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

For our Supporting Greatness series, two-time Emmy-nominated cartoonist Marshall Ramsey celebrates the Army of Normal Folks that shaped his life. And how we can be that Army for those around us. Plus, his fascinating stories about Peyton Manning, Barbara Bush, and his cousin Dave (yes, that Dave).Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an Army of Normal Folks, and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Marshall Ramsey, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat, and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled.

That's one less thing pulling at me, and that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now, get 50% off your first box. Plus, FreeSides for Life. That's right. Free Sides for Life. Go to Hellofresh.cate and use code box. That's Hellofresh.cate. Code Box.

Hellofresh. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. There's no championship league for small business owners. But if there was, you'd be at the top of the standings. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One-on-one advice, IT solutions, and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors, help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro

with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for free at Lenovo.com slash pro. Linnovo, Lenovo. Hi, Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up

that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do. that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that

there's a one-person billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone needs to take care of their mental health, even running back Bijan Robinson.

When I'm on the field, I'm feeling the pressure. I usually just take a deep breath. When I'm just breathing and seeing what's in front of me, everything just slows down. It just makes you feel great before I run the play. Just like Bejohn, we all need a strong mental game on. and off the field. Make a game plan for your mental health at love your mind playbook.org.

Love your mind. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Foundation, the Arthur M. Blank Family Foundation, and the ad council. Like, if we're on the air here, and I literally have my contract here, and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this,

I'm going to get a seven-figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire. The Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with

ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent, creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too much.

I'm a Grady, baby. Shut up. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's so weird, Bill, because you talk about writing. When I write, and I've written short story books, I do a lot of writing on social media like a lot of people. It comes from the same pot. I picture pictures in my head. and then I either try to translate it with my hand to draw it

or I try to find words to describe it. So, I mean, if I write a short story, it's the same thing as me coming up with a cartoon. It's just I'm producing it in a different way. Dude. Did you learn that? Head wounds. Yeah, concussions.

It had to be it. Seriously. No, no, seriously. I think some of it is obviously genetic, you know. Because I think talent, you're going to have to put in the work, right? I'm a true believer of the 10,000 hour thing, the Malcolm Gladwell deal.

But anything you love to do, it's not work, right? And so, I mean, for years, drawing illustrations and drawing pictures, that's not work. That's fun. Well, I've put in a lot of time. I mean, the year of the pandemic, I did 700 drawings. Wow. You know, I mean, that was a lot of work, you know,

but it was not work. It was something for me to keep my mind. I did free coloring sheets every day, for instance, to put out into the world. you know. So, you know, it was just different ways to be able to be creative. But yeah, that's, I think over time, it's a combination. Now, if I go on vacation for two weeks and don't draw, and I don't draw as much now as I used to because I'm busy doing the other job. But it's a little bit harder because I'm rusty a little bit. All right. So you graduate from Tennessee, right? Yes. With a degree in marketing. Hey, before we go there, the other professor at Tennessee. Yeah. Faye Julian. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get to her.

Okay. Yeah. So you graduate degree in marketing. Oh, yeah. Well, at the University of Tennessee, they have the student newspaper of the Daily Beacon. So I work there for five years. I don't bring up five years to my dad. Even though he's gone, he still would come back from the grade and strangle me for that one.

I took five years too. I did. I switched majors. Get over it. So, yeah, that's what happened. Get over it? Oh, no, I was over it back then. I was fine with it.

So I won another football season. So, I mean, he was paying. I kind of justified an extra year in Oxford. You know, good enough. After living there, I can see where you're coming from on that one. The Velvet Ditch ain't lying. Yeah. It's definitely on that.

Yeah. So I'm drawing, and I want to be a cartoonist. And I, you know, the nice thing about the Daily Beacon was it was daily. So I was doing five a week. I had 13 editors. I was doing the reps. I was getting better and I was getting better. I kind of hit a little bit of roadblock when I was a senior.

I took a speech class. And Dr. Fay Julian was my professor. Faye Julian. Faye Julian. Faye Julian's husband was J. Julian, who was the band director, very famous at Tennessee for many years. And Faye was a speech teacher. She later became head of the College of Communications. And she was passing out the first test.

It was my spring semester, my second senior year. And I always have to make sure I make that, you know, I have to make sure that's clear. And she puts mine down, and I'm looking around. Everybody else is getting 75, 60 and all that. And I got a 95. And Faye looks at me and says, you can do better than that. And I look at her like, you are a crazy old bat. Because I got a 95.

And I do not need to do better. And she looked at me and she said, no, no, you can do better than that. I said, what do you mean? She said, I've seen your talent. I expect more from you. Wow. And guess what? I felt my spine stiffen.

I felt myself set up a little bit. I paid attention a little more. And I worked really hard. and Fay would show up every time I spoke in Knoxville and grade me. Would she really? Oh, yeah. I mean, she would just be in the back of the room with a notepad. Just tell me what I need to do better.

She cared about me. She was so proud of me. And the last time I saw her, I did a drawing for the College of Communications, even though I was, they adopted me, so that was nice of them. And she was there, and I looked at her in S of Faye. I just am so thrilled. She was starting to slip a little bit, and it was, not long before she passed away. And she said, I just said, I'm so proud that you're here and

thank you for everything you've done for me. I got a chance to say thank you. And that meant the world to me, because I'm really big on that. And I said, you were my favorite professor. And I know I was your favorite student. And she said, you weren't. No, you weren't. You weren't. And I was like, who, who was your favorite student? And she said, Peyton Manning. So I do cartoons at the graduate hotel in Knoxville, right? So I did like 50 drawings for their lobby, right? So if you go into the graduate and you see my work. And one of their, I guess, investors was a fan of my work and wanted me to do it.

It turned out to be Peyton, right? So I got to meet Peyton. I got a picture of me and Peyton together, which I will give you so you can publish it. But once again, I realized that I was much too short. college football. I was looking up and I'm going, okay, I'm tiny. And I said, hey, I'm a big fan of yours. I'm just so honored to meet you, but I got a, I got a bone to pick with you. And he said, what? And I said, Fay Julian. He said, oh, do you know I was her favorite student? Really? Yeah. So it's so cool. Faye was amazing. And I mean, Peyton would agree with me.

He thought the world over too. He really was for a guy that had the notoriety. He, had, he really was just a kind of a normal old dude in college wedding. He was so normal. And what I've heard about him was like he would time himself in the shower to see if he could be more efficient. You know, he was always like, really, that's what one friend said, you know, that he was always so driven or thinking about it. But he seemed like he was having a great time when he was in school.

They did seem, though. Yeah, I wish I'd have had that much fun, you know, at the time. I remember when being an Ole Miss fan, when he announced he was going to Tennessee. and all the Ole Miss people were just so angry. Oh, yeah. And then I remember, like, a couple years later, thinking, dad gum, and I can't hate him. I wanted to hate him, but I couldn't hate him.

He just seemed like a really good dude. Yeah. Which is neat. So he invested or owns the... I think he's one of the investors in the graduate down there. Yeah, and he was a fan of yours. Yeah, that's that. Well, anyway, he told Ben Weeper and who owns the graduate.

That's how he found out about me. It was really neat. It was really cool because on the opening, I got to meet like the 98 national championship team and all the coaches and all that stuff were there. And it was kind of, it was really great. But I think the thing that impressed me the most about Peyton, and I guess I can say this on air,

is the way that, you know, he obviously cares for his family very, very much. And I got to meet his wife and his children and everything. And that was really, really cool. It's always just nice to see people that you think are heroes, you know, to see what the other side of their life is like. Archie was the same way. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Archie and Cooper. were there and the mannings are the whole family's just incredible yeah and he lies okay too all right before we move on from college do you want to say anything about charlie daniel yeah yeah so the other part in college was that when i was i guess a sophomore i had another class where i had to go interview somebody who did what i wanted to do knoxville had a cartoonist at the time his name's Charlie Daniel, and he left his job at 90. He did it for 60 years in Knoxville. So not the guy that's saying the devil went down to Georgia.

No, there's no S on the end of that. Got it. No, he has never heard that joke. So Charlie hasn't. Charlie, he retired at 90. Yeah. Good grief. He still draws.

He's 96. Still drives. Unbelievable. Oh, Sharper an attack. He's sharper in Knoxville. He lives in Knoxville. He and his wife, Patsy. just an incredible human being.

He taught me everything I needed to know of my career because Charlie was committed to Knoxville, the community. He sat on boards. His wife was a big part of the Dogwood Festival that was there. Charlie sat on the hospital board, you know, that kind of thing. But Charlie literally gave back as much as he took from Knoxville. And so he had a 60-year career there. And it was so funny, I won a nice award from the University of Tennessee,

and I went for the thing, and Phil Fulmer was there, the coach. And I was just glad to me. You know, it's like, it was nice to meet you, Coach Fulmer and everything else. And he's like, hey, yeah, well, tell me a little bit about yourself. I said, I'm a cartoonist. And he said, do you know Charlie Daniel? I said, yeah, he's right there. Charlie had come to the thing and Charlie was there.

And it was like watching Phil Fulmer turn into a fanboy. Really? Because Charlie had done that all the time. But yeah, Charlie literally, so when I went up to his office, he was on deadline, he said, sit down. and I sat down and we talked and he drew his cartoon and he said, you got anything going on for dinner tonight?

He said, my wife would love to have you. So I went to his house. I went to his house. I had to put a brick under my tire because I had a stick shift and he had a steep driveway and I was afraid he's good. He still makes fun of me about that. And then he said, you know, we got a cartoonist convention later on this year.

You want to go? You can ride with me. And so I ended up driving them across to Memphis. It was here in Memphis. And I have a career where Coach of Charlie. Daniel. You really believe that? No, no, definitely.

Because he gave me the blueprint. I won the John Loker Award, which was given to the top editorial cartoonists in the country in Collegiate. And, you know, so I got to go to that convention, and I got to meet the other cartoonists, and I got to kind of see how I was going to get this career formed, because I got to meet other people who did what I wanted to do.

Only because he just took an interest in you. Because he had a big heart. He's that way with everybody. A friend of mine's named Paige Braddock, Pages, the head of Schultz Enterprises, which does peanuts. He did the same thing with her when she was a cartoonist at Tennessee. No kidding. He's like, yeah, come on over the house. We'd love to, you know.

Is there a legacy of cartoonists from Tennessee? Because you just mentioned three, just out of curiosity. There have been several that have come out of there, surprisingly. You would think more like New York or L.A. or something like that. I know. I guess sometimes it helps when you live, like Mississippi. You know, if you live in a funny place, you know, you got a lot of material. Tons of material.

I was like, I've never worked a day of my life. I have a crack team of comedy writers at the state capital. You live around them all that time. Yeah, Charlie, I don't know what I do without them. I just think the world, him and Patsy both. You still visit with them? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

When we've, not as much as I want to just because I don't live near Knoxville that much. But when I go to Knoxville, I go see Charlie. It's like I'm going to see my parents. No kidding. Yeah. That's fantastic. So I proceeded to graduate and to honor his legacy, I couldn't find a job and end up being a challenger. What? I didn't know that part. Yeah. Yeah, Dan was proud.

Yeah, I bet. It's like, yeah, no, I kind of, well, it was 91, the economy was rough. And I'm not using it as an excuse. It's just newspapers were not hiring and they weren't going to hire a young, you know, whippersnapper cartoonist guy. So I ended up going to work at Pope High School, married to Georgia, felt sorry. for myself for good six months. I always tell people, and I will use general language on this, or can I say fart? Yes. Okay. I was like a fart in the elevator, right? Nobody wanted to be around me, but they couldn't get away from me. You know, so I Xeroxed my diploma. I put it on my barrel.

You know, I threw a pity party that was so great. I gave out snacks. And then I went to church. They were doing the parable of the talents, and I realized I was the servant who was bearing my talent. and I mean it was like an epiphany. And I came back the next Monday with a great attitude and they drug tested me because they thought I was on something. They're like, we don't know what's wrong with you, right? So no, it was great because the teachers were very supportive there.

I started doing T-shirts for the cross-country team. I started doing drawings for their school paper of all things. I decided I would take an art class, so I took a, you know, learned how to paint. That's my first art class. That was exciting. And then one day there was a lady named Maggie that worked there also. Now, Maggie was kind of an inspiration too. Because Maggie was 45 years old, which I thought was ancient at the time.

I wish I were 45 still. And Maggie's husband was an Eastern Airline pilot. And as you know, they had the strike and the airline going out of business. So he lost his job. He was on strike for like a couple years. And Maggie went to go work as a high school custodian. And she never really had to work, but she did it so they could have insurance. And I just really touched my soul.

I just, that is the kind of person I wanted to be around because she was not going to feel sorry for herself. We did, you know, fuss a lot. But we became really good friends. And one day Maggie came out to me and she said, how'd you like to go out? My daughter. She just broke up with her boyfriend. And I said, you have low standards for your daughter. I am not going to be a doctor, you know.

Plus, the janitor's daughter, I mean, you could be running into Ruth Buzzy. you've got to be careful there. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, it was just like, you know, I mean, Maggie was, like I said, Maggie and I were there, but we didn't want to be there. I get it. You know, it was one of those things. And so her daughter was at the University of Georgia, and she said, I'll bring her to,

she's going to be home this weekend. I'll bring her to your other job because I had a second job at the golf course. And so she brought her and she promptly locked her keys in the car. Perfect. So I got two hours with her daughter, who was, I will say, very cute. She had beautiful blue eyes. And so I was like, okay, would you like to go. out, and so we set up a date.

Bill, I tell you that, because number one, you know, you would say, oh, I don't want to be, being a janitor had to be your worst job. It was the best job I ever had. Because if I had not met Maggie, I would not have three incredible boys with those same blue eyes because I married her daughter. And I've been married to her for 30, two years. Is that that crazy how life unfolds? You see, the thing is, and it's like, as I grew up Presbyterian,

and I'm not now, I'm Episcopalian. But I tend to look, if you look backwards, it all makes sense. It was all meant to happen, right? But at the time, it's crazy because you think this is nuts. I mean, Amy and I, we had no job. Yeah, if you've got a job right out of college, you'd never. Never met Amy. Yeah.

And so, you know, for a year, I worked. Another lady that worked at the school looked at me, and she said, oh, you seem like a nice guy and you have a great work ethic. I've got a friend who works in the local newspaper. They need an advertising artist, and that's how I got my newspaper career started. Really? Yeah. All because I had, you know, because they saw my talent, but they also saw my attitude, right?

And because my attitude had changed, I was able to get in that, finally get into a newspaper. And that was not my cartooning debut, but that was my debut. And so Amy and I, we decided to get married when both of us made about seven bucks an hour. and within like a month of me getting married, I got a job from a headhunter down in Houston, Texas. There was a newspaper down there, and I got hired down there, and we moved down there literally right after we got married,

and it all worked out. Was the Houston thing, like your first full-time editorial cartoonist gig? No, I worked there as an advertising artist also, but they were open to me doing the editorial cartoon. So I did three to five a week for them. And then my editor really thought it was good. And we found out, he said, you know, you need to be syndicated. I said, okay.

So he helped me write my cover letter, which he had a line that was something to the tune of paper trained and editor-friendly. He was an old misgraduate also that lived down in Texas, and named Dan Turner. So probably about the same era. as us. And he was always talking about, yeah, I'm going to be married on this fairground and Philadelphia, Mississippi and all that stuff. And he's a big fair guy, Neshoba County Fair guy and everything. But he, we signed it.

And lo and behold, I went from being a high school custodium within three years. I was in the, you know, New York Times in USA Today. I was nationally syndicated. So it was just, it was incredible. And I mean, it's all a God thing. You know, I mean, I'll be the first admit, you know, that I have no control of this whole thing. It's God, it's other people, it's me.

That's how it worked. It is always so interesting. Like when we talked to Mike Rowe on his supporting greatness episode. Which that was a great episode, by the way. I love that one. I'm glad you heard it, but it was a band teacher. Yeah. It was a grandfather.

Yeah. It was the scoutmaster. Scout master for the scouts. Angels come dressed in. funny clothes. They really do. Now that would be an interesting cartoon. Yeah. Yeah. But it

is interesting how you knew what you wanted to do, but you had no idea how you were going to get there and who was going to impact your life along the way. And luckily I was stupid enough to not give up, you know. So do you remember,

I'm curious, do you remember the first one that got a national publication? Yeah, I had gotten hired. I was out in San Diego working out there. So the syndicate that syndicated me thought I did such a good job selling myself. They hired me and I moved to San Diego, which that was pretty cool. Yeah, I love it. It was nice. So we lived out there a couple years.

And then Dan, my editor called me up and said, hey, the Clarion Ledger and Jackson Mississippi is calling. Oh, let's give up San Diego. Yeah, I said the number you have reached has been disconnected and I hung up on them, you know, because I just got back from the beach. you know, which, you know, when you're a melanoma survivor, maybe that was good than I left. I don't know. But, so when I was at the Coering Ledger, I remember the first one that I got that was in Newsweek. And Newsweek was a big thing back then. They had like three cartoons.

Newsweek's still a big thing. Yeah, but it was like then it was for a cartoon. It was the thing back then. It was really before the Internet. So it was like, oh, this is kind of cool. So it was the- What was it? It was one on the MIR space station was falling apart. It was during the UPS strike.

The UPS had just finally came back, and I had like a UPS van pulling up to mirror saying, oh, it's about time you got here, you know, that thing. It was that combination. And I don't have, I have very few of my things framed or anything, but I think I still have that one framed. We'll be right back. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions.

Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that. I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly,

the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled. That's one less thing pulling at me. And that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life. That's right. Free sides for life. Go to Hellofresh.cate and use Code Rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.ca. Code Rescue 50. Hello Fresh. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. There's no championship league for small business owners. But if there was, you'd be at the top of the standings. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro, means, you've got the winning formation. One-on-one advice, IT solutions, and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro

with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for free at Lenovo.com slash pro. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person?

I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone needs to take care of their mental health, even running back Bijan Robinson. When I'm on the field, I'm feeling the pressure, I usually just, take a deep breath.

When I'm just breathing and seeing what's in front of me, everything just slows down. It just makes you feel great before I run the play. Just like Bejohn, we all need a strong mental game on and off the field. Make a game playing for your mental health at love your mind playbook.org. Love your mind. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Foundation, the Arthur M. Blank Family Foundation, and the ad console.

Like, if we're on the air here, and I literally have my contract here, and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven-figure check. told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built a cultural empire, the Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man.

Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent, creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too much.

I'm a Grady, baby. Shut up. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I mean, that had a bit of a full. circle moment for you. Oh, yeah. I mean, from eight years old,

right. And all of these different stops and places in your life to get to where you really wanted to go and then here's something you created in Newsweek. That has to be, I mean, I know all of us want to be humble, but you had to be really proud. You know, and I'll sum it up, I think, this way, because right about that time, I've gotten arts and lecture speech at Mill's, College, which I had seen Stephen Ambrose speak there. So I was always like on my bucket list to go get to speak there.

And I felt like I'd made it when I got to do it. And my parents came. And it was really the first time they got to see me successful doing what I was doing. And I remember watching them and they were laughing at my jokes. It's like, oh, this is cool, man. And I saw my dad laughing, which was really cool too. My mom was nice. She was my mom.

And that's her job. But dad, you know, and he came up to me after a way. Your dad seems like a guy that would laugh it was funny, and if it wasn't, he'd just look at you and say, you know, that's not really funny. Yeah, no. Yeah. I know. He would, but he busted your chops. He was, he had that ability.

Yeah, but the guy that said, yeah, you may be the only two Tom nominated Pulitzer person and he'd incite him, I'm the only person who cares. I don't see him laughing at a bad joke. No, no, no, no. He's, but, you know, he could make you feel good, but he was very strategic. But he came up to me afterwards, and we were kind of in the green room. We were talking for a second, and he said, you know, you're the only person I ever knew that knew what they wanted to do at eight years old and did it. That was the finest compliment I ever got from my dad. Yeah, that's pretty great.

Well, that and I love you. It was right, because dad grew up old school, right? You know, and when his dad died, my grandfather was incredible. A lot of times you hear stuff, Dave, talking about financial stuff. My grandfather would come in when we were kids and he would come turn down off the heat and he'd say, we're not paying TVA any more money than we have to, you know? because he'd survived the depression, right? So he was, but, but when he died, my dad changed, you know,

and dad hugged me for the first time after his dad died. And it was just like, you know, I mean, you know, I knew he loved me, but it was just like he realized, oh, no. And it's so funny now that I watch my boys drive off going to their lives. And I remember when we would drive back to go home, dad would just kind of stand there and he'd look sad. And I get it now. Boy, do I understand that?

Yeah. All right. So like a nutcase. you leave San Diego for Jackson, Mississippi. Yes. Yeah, San Diego's great for weather. Jackson, Mississippi's great for cartoonists. I get it.

Yeah. And you show up at the Clarion Ledge, or you're an Atlanta guy. You've lived in Houston. You went to Tennessee. So the South's in you. So Jackson's not a complete culture shock. But what is your job at the Clearinger Lager?

Are you... Full-time cartoonist. I mean... I made it. Nirvana. That was it. That was what I wanted to do. First day I walked in.

I get there early. Nobody's in the newsroom. Bobby Cleveland, who is one of our sports writers, and the rest of his soul, he's no longer with us. Foniest man, he could read the phone book, and I would laugh. He was just that good. I walked in and his computer was on fire. It was belching black smoke. And I was like, hold it. You literally mean it was on fire. No, it was. I thought you meant he was typing so hard. No, there was nobody in the newsroom, but his computer was on fire. And I was just like, okay, God, this is a sign. Here we are. crawled under the desk and unplugged it and the smoke went. First day of Mississippi, they're burning computers.

Burning computer. And, I mean, it was just like, oh, my interview. I mean, I tell, sometimes I tell that interview story. It was the most crazy, you know, two days of my life. And I remember getting back and Amy's like, why should we move to Mississippi? And I said, I think it's the people. What was the interview?

What made it crazy? Oh, no, no. I flew in at night and I remember flying in over, they have a reservoir and there was no lights. And I thought we were crashing. So I put on my life vest. and the slight attendant told me to stop. And then they take me around to Jackson at 10.30 at night.

And they say, well, there's the UMC, the big hospital. That's a good place to go if you're ever shot. I'm like, this is not a Chamber of Commerce moment. You know, and one of our editorial writers gets in an argument screaming match with one of the representatives there. And I'm watching this whole thing. And I was just stunned, you know. The whole thing is just such a surreal interview.

And then I come back and Amy's like, what did you think? And I didn't want to tell her the truth because I didn't want to to resist moving, but it turned out great. Dan, my former editor, said something. He said, Mississippi's going to love you and you're going to love Mississippi. And it's worked out perfectly. So here's the deal. Right. I have, it's not really an uncle. He's my wife's aunt's husband. So I guess that's an uncle-in-law because it's not any blood to be, right? It's my wife's aunt's husband. So whatever that is to me, he's my kid's great uncle, I guess. Anyway, he was a pressman.

And he ran, and when I say a pressman, I don't know if that. Person who runs the press. But he runs for it up in New York and New Jersey and Philadelphia for the big newspapers. I mean, and at one of the places he had like three of these things that would run all night. and he would make sure all the newspapers got out. And he was way up in the organization. And I don't remember how many years ago I'm going to call it 12 is when everything in the newspaper world started constricting.

Really, really, really, really bad. Yeah, my therapist says that's when it happened. I remember five years before that, him saying, I hope newspapers last long enough for me to be able to get my pension. Yeah. And it was like he went to work with this excitement every day because he loved what he did, but also this dread knowing that digital media was going to put old school actual newspaper in the grave.

Right. And while we still have the L.A. Times and press. in the USA Today in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, so many newspapers across our country have really dried up, been consolidated. You know, the commercial appeal in Memphis isn't even printed here anymore, and it is a shell of what it once was in terms of what the paper actually is. I don't think my kids have ever sat down on a table and actually read a newspaper. and I feel like we've lost a piece of Americana,

not having the actual smelly, inky newspaper. The other thing that I really fear is we had all these newsrooms across the country with people whose job it was to go out and dig up news, sometimes local, you know, who's doing the garden club thing. One of the things I loved the most in high school was every Saturday morning you could wake up

and in the newspaper was the box score of all the team's games. And there was a beat writer who covered high school sports. Did you ever get your picture in the paper? All the time. I thought that was the coolest thing ever. It's the greatest thing in the world. And that's gone. But here's my concern about the breakdown of the newsrooms.

It's not that as a high schooler I don't get my picture in the paper anymore. It's who's out there digging up the real news. That's right. And so when news sourcing and reporting and investigative journalism and these numbers of people out there with the freedom of the press keeping our society honest start drying up and consolidating. We have fewer and fewer of them. I seriously worry about how that plays some role in the division in our country and the consolidation of power in our country.

And I know this isn't about editorial cartoons, but to some degree, when you're an editorial cartoonist, you are just reflecting what these varied people are digging up and putting out there for us to read and understand and contemplate and think about. What are your thoughts on what the actual newspaper shrinking in our world over the last 15, 10 years means to our culture and how we communicate? A few things. Number one, I'm about ready to start preaching, so we'll just go ahead. Because, I mean, this is, I've lived this one. I've, you know. No, I know. No, I've been on the 50-yard line on this. Up front, I've seen it.

I was made part-time in 2010 because of budget cuts. Went through 18 rounds of layoffs. I saw our newsroom shrink from over 100 people down to just a handful. And with the loss of... A hundred to how many, really? Yeah. I don't know how many they have now. They may have five or six.

I'm not sure. Well, I mean, how do you go from 100 to 5 and get the job done? Right. Well, here's the thing. Number one, one of the problems that you have. And we'll just say this. There are news deserts. There are local newspapers have, like thousands of them have gone out.

I should know that statistic, and I don't at the second. But it really is thousands. But here's the problem. If you have a community that does not have a local newspaper, you do not have a watchdog that's watching your city government. So guess what? There are studies that show this that you are paying more taxes, up to $350 more a year, according to one study from 2015.

So that's $2,015, I'm sure it's more. So you don't have somebody that's. looking over bonds and stuff like that and the city budget and so forth. So that's a problem. But the other problem is, and we found this out when I was working with Mississippi today, we would go do community listening sessions. And what is, people are not coming to a common source of knowledge. They don't come in with the same set of facts because they're not reading the local

newspaper. They don't know what everybody else's neighborhood's going on. They don't know what's going on in their city. So we're losing that because as much as I love social media, and I know you do too, the algorithm gives you what you want to see, not necessarily what you need to see, right? And so, yes, I do think it does play a big part of our division. I'm very weird about my social media content.

I generally try to put positive content on there. And my editorial cartoons usually in one place I'm really snarky. Because even though the algorithm is not going to be my friend, because apparently outrage sells, I'm going to try to pump out content that's, you know, because I want to give somebody the chance that I, had, right? I want somebody to pick me up when there's a moment when they might be feeling a little bit down. So I want to do that with my content. One of the things that I do with my job now,

and I'm sure we'll get into that, is that when I was made part-time in 2010, I suddenly had half a day and I needed to make up a lot of income so I could keep my house and keep my kids fed. So I got a radio show. So I did, and I knew nothing about radio. I think they thought they were getting Dave Ramsey. They got me. So I suddenly that first I had a two, oh gosh, had a 25 minutes segment that I had to fill in. 15 minutes into it, I ran out of gas and my producer just luckily jumped in or it would have been dead air. But I learned how to do radio. I learned how to do interviews.

And then I came out with a short story book because every morning I would get up and write a short story whether I needed to or not and ended up having over 100 stories. And so I created a book. Sold 7,000 copies of that. I'd never published a book for, but I learned how to do it. I self-published it, drove around the state, did signings because I had half a day of doing it. When they made me part-time, as I was sitting there in that office, I kept hearing my dad's voice saying, grab the rope because I knew, I didn't think it was the best thing it was ever going to happen to me,

but I knew I was going to make it the best thing that ever happened to me. One of the things I do now with my new job is I'll be 58 years old here in a couple weeks. I'm feeling about double that right this moment, but that's fine. but I want to give the students the same thing that my dad gave me. I want to give them the understanding that just because they think they failed, all they've done is opened up the playing field for more opportunities because you never know where that chance is going. You've got a list of people who changed my life.

And I pray to God every night and say thank you for every one of them and every other person I've come along because, and I also thank him for all the, conflict and problems that I've had in my life because it's made me grow and become better. I just don't think you can become better without that. And yes, I do worry, but I want the next generation of journalists to still live by the standards that make journalism what it is and why it's so important. But I also want them to understand that how we consume our news and how we consume our information

is changing by the day. And we don't have control of that anymore like we did. We had newsprint and we had television. One thing on the stats, you mentioned, so 3,500 newspapers have closed, along with over 270,000 newspaper jobs? 270,000. Yeah, see, it concerns me because, I mean, you just said something really important. Is that...

God, first for everything. Well, no. At the Memphis City Council meetings, there used to always be three or four reporters there. Yeah. And they wouldn't just report what the council member said. They would go find out if they were full of crap or not. That's right. Yeah.

And then you would wake up every morning and get the newspaper or the evening paper. And you would read what was said and then it would be reported on whether or not that was accurate. And so our citizenry as a result of local newspaper was more involved in their civics. That's right. And more informed. And so it was about the garden club. It was about the sports. It was about, you know, I look at old clippings about Lula Mae, so-and-so had her daughter in town from Topeka and in attendance for these 10 people.

And, you know, that's kind of funny and all that. But it was that. And it did connect community. and I just can't help but think the breakdown of our local newspaper is part and parcel to so much of the breakdown of what we see in our civics today. You touched on something I thought was really important. And, you know, why I think the Garden Club stuff and why high school football stuff and everything else, Mississippi, I always have a theory about marketing down there. If people know who you are, they'll pay attention, right?

As long as a newspaper was out doing those things, showing the community they care, giving back, and so forth, you know, then people could handle the tough news and the tough stuff that they saw. That's interesting, and that makes sense. You know, because it's like they trusted, they trusted you, they knew you. And I always thought TV did that better than newspapers, you know, promoting the people, not just the product,

per se. But I feel like in this world, you know, that's why we like listening to certain podcasts or we like watching certain, because we feel like we trust them. We feel like they know them, like they care for us or whatever. But, you know, when you got that city hall reporter, you're talking about Memphis, that person may have been doing that for 40 years. So they had institutional knowledge, too. It wasn't just that they understood the procedures or Robert's Rules of Order. They understood, okay, well, this is why this is important because in context of what, you know, the city council did 10 years ago, this really matters, you know. And so we lost a lot of that institutional history when we lost reports too.

That makes so much sense. You know, so it's like, you know, Rick Cleveland, who I've worked with for many years, the sports writer down in Mississippi. He's been, I mean, he's, he was over the Hall of Fame for a couple of years and worked there before he joined on in Mississippi today. But Rick knew ever had interviewed everybody in the Hall of Fame. So if, you know, I trust Rick. When Rick has something to say something about it, then you know what?

It's probably right. Yeah. So the irony of all that is a newspaper cost 45 cents or 50 cents or 75 cents. Oh, the advertising was paying for the newspaper. And when the advertising went away, because they didn't control the channel anymore. Right. So when the Internet happened, that caused a disruption. just like it has in everything, you know, and for good.

I mean, there's a lot of good things on the internet. I like watching cat videos. They're pretty awesome. So, you know, but that said, you know, you're seeing now what television news is having the same issue issue because, well, you can watch reels, right? People are sitting there. They're not watching the tonight show anymore. They're sitting there on their phone flicking through watching, you know, whatever's on TikTok.

We'll be right back. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat and it takes around 30 minutes. The real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled. That's one less thing pulling at me. And that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life. That's right. Free sides for life. Go to Hellofresh.c8 and use code Rescue 50. That's hellofresh.ca.c code rescue 50.

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Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page. Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion dollar company,

which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be.

So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's sounded outtogether.org.

Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. Like if we're on the air here and I literally have my contract here, I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven-figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire, the Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man.

Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent, creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too much.

I'm a gradie, baby. Shut up. Listen to where Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you know what percent of a newspaper's revenue came from advertising versus subscribers? I don't remember that, but I would say it was most of it. And the two biggest costs you have newspapers were people in paper, right? So that's where they would cut. So that's why the papers got smaller.

That's why the staffs got smaller because they're having to pay for those two different things. So the Cleary and Ledger still exists because I see stuff from them on my news feed on my phone. Yeah. Do they still make a paper paper? They still make a paper paper and it's still printed actually in Jackson. They actually do have, still have a press there, and they do several other people's papers. I do like the guy who's the editor now. I think he's really trying real hard, and they're trying.

You know, they're trying to hang in there. I mean, it's, I was in that whirlwind from, I was made part-time in 2010, and I left in 2019. And, you know, I mean, I was firsthand. I got to see the challenges, you know. Of course, with the internet, you've got analytics, you've got to figure out how to break through the algorithm, how to be able to get people's, you know, it's just a different planet now. But that's okay. I mean, like I said, you don't complain about it changing.

You've got to figure out how to adapt and how to grow in that environment. So, as an editorial cartoonist, with all of this changing and all of the info changing and where your stuff goes, how do you adapt? It's funny. I'm sitting here looking right now at my children's book. I draw puppies and kitties. Actually, that's my therapy. No. No, you just keep throwing things against the wall and see what sticks and try things. You can't be afraid to say no to something if it fails, you know. And so luckily, the same pot that makes me a good editorial cartoonist has made me decent on air. It's made me a good writer. It's made me a good card. you know, at a children's book author, it's made me, you know, so it's the same skills I've got,

you know, just because I'm an editorial cartoonist doesn't mean that that's all I can do. You know, I can still be creative. And at the end of the day, there's people, like my dad said, that it can outdraw me and then I can out think me, but I can outwork them. So, what brought you to Oxford? It was kind of a combination of things. I had a great job at Mississippi Today. I still do cartoons for them.

I love them. They're fantastic. I think you interviewed me on Mississippi today. For Mississippi Today, and I did for MPB, because I had a radio show on Mississippi Public Broadcasting as well. Amy's mom, Maggie, my mother-in-law, she got breast cancer and she passed away. And our dog passed away the next day,

which that was a really tough one for my poor child, as I'm telling him, you know, because he was not there for Maggie. Amy had been doing her job for a while. She loved it, but she was tired. and we were empty nesters because our youngest just went off to college and our two oldest had just graduated from college. And she just looked at me and she said, we need to change. And I looked at her and I said, you know what?

I agree. And this job just opened up. And it was a chance for me to reinvent myself again, which was fun. Looked an opportunity. And I've been coming to Oxford for 30 years, you know. I mean, since, because I did Chancellor's leadership class for many years and speak to classes. I never could figure out which exit of the square would get me where.

But now I figured that out after living there for six months. But we love doctor. We love going out there with our boys. It is a little bit of a Camelot place. It's pretty nice. Yeah, it's pretty nice. You tend to adapt to the craziness of the university, which has grown like a weed over the last five years.

If there's going to be a football game, you treat it like a blizzard. Buy everything you need and hold on. You go shopping on Wednesday and you hole up until Sunday. And, you know, you'll know you'll get into restaurants as soon as the students go off for a Christmas break. And, you know, it's just little things like that. But I like the rhythm. You know, I had been going 100 percent, you know, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, for years. And now there's actually a chance to breathe.

And with our boys now, two of them living out of state, you know, it's a chance for us to be able to go visit them. And we're closer to one of them by car. So that's a win. So what is it that you do? What is it that I do? We have the Mississippi Media Lab. We're starting that. This is so interesting.

So I work in the School of Journalism, and the dean there, Andrea Hickerson, is incredible. She's just 100% energy. And she had contacted me about this. And the Jordan Center, you know, they needed a director of engagement. And then the Media Lab did not exist, right? So this is literally a clean piece of paper kind of thing. What we're creating, to begin with. And you were a writer for the Daily Mississippi, right?

I was. You were. You were. In fact, I love the fact that you and I both managed to nearly get run out on a rail because of stuff we did in college. What did you go most get run out of? A couple of my cartoons, really, got me in trouble both of the administration and a student body. Tell me one. Oh, I'd done one about, you know, it's funny because you can remember everything.

I did like 800 cartoons. This was one I think I did about, it was something to do with Israel. It was a national cartoon. It wasn't even a local one. Really? Yeah, and I forgot the take on it, but it just made everybody mad. People hated you? It just hate my guts.

It was great. Yeah, I loved it. People hated me because I spoke out against the Confederate flag. You were ahead of the time. I know. It's funny. Now, I will say this, the day I was diagnosed with melanoma was the day of the Mississippi flag vote.

And I had been, I had a proponent for changing the flag too. Hold it. A lot of people don't know this. Okay. The Mississippi flag thing, how many years ago? was that was 2001. So that was, yeah. The Mississippi flag thing was a massive deal because of the Confederate flag and the top.

The 1894 flag had the stars and bars on it. Yeah. Yeah. And the state flag. And there was a vote about whether or not that should be part of the state flag anymore, correct? That is correct. And they offered up an alternative, which it wasn't the prettiest in the world, but, you know, it wasn't tied to 1894. and so there was a big push to change it.

The business community got behind it and everything else. Well, I had done several supportive cartoons to changing it because it was time, you know, obviously everybody was like heritage, not hate, but unfortunately the hate really seemed to bubble up on that. And so I, on the day of the flag vote, I was getting threats all day long, and we found out they were from out of state, from on my life. And then at 5.30, my doctor calls, and he says. said you have cancer. And I started laughing. And he's like, why are you laughing? And I said,

this nicest call I've had all day. Thank you. Is it an interesting, though, you've told me that story before? Yeah. And I was hoping you would say that that all the hate about the change of the Pacific flag was not from Mississippians. Oh, I know. Yeah. I mean, there's this is, outside interest. Oh, this is coming from Texas, which cracked me up. And I lived in Texas. I don't, you know, so I mean, I love Texas. But the point is. Yeah. No. It was like, it wasn't, yeah, it wasn't homegrown. The call is not coming from inside the house. We'll just put it that way.

So anyway, yes, I wrote for the Native Missypians. So what you're doing now is this. Yeah, well, we just went off into a rabbit hole. Oh, that's right. It's the way it works. Supposed to be a conversation. I understand. So we are creating a space for students to be able to tell stories in non-traditional ways.

Because the Daily Mississippi, in, with Student Media Center, they do excellent work. News Watch, fantastic. Daily Mississippi, and this semester has had some of their best papers in years. They covered everything from when Charlie Kirk, you know, when they came on to campus right out. The Daily Mississippi is a good student newsboy. They have been doing great work.

Incredible. The radio station is good stuff too. What we're going to be able to do, everything from podcasting to being able to, which I'll be teaching, which is kind of funny. That's cool. And then, you know, and we're going to create a structure so that we can go into North Mississippi towns with news deserts

and be able to do reporting on what's going on with their local government, what's going on in the state government, what's going on in the federal government. Because of the Jordan Center and because of our director, Steve Herman, who is former Voice of America reporter, we would now have connections in Washington, D.C., and we're going to be able to have a place for students to be able to go up to D.C. and do coverage. So what we're doing is creating an experimental space that's housed kind of in between the student media center and the school of journalism that creates a space for students to experiment and try new things just like I've had to do over the last 15, 20 years. I.E. The lab.

That's what the lab. That's why it's a lab. It's truly a labatory of media. Yeah. And there's a lot of these that are bubbling up. I think Vermont, they've, up in Burlington at the University of Vermont. They've got one of the best ones where they, but the University of Georgia does it. They actually run a newspaper in a local community just to make sure that it's working in their school of journalism. So there's a lot of great things going on out there

to teach the next generation of journalists to be able to have the skills. And my thing is, you know, yeah, I trust the school of journalism to teach them how to be good journalists. What I want to teach them as how to be able to treat opportunities is what they think is failure is to be opportunity. Out of curiosity, is editorial cartoonist part of this whole thing? I think so.

Because, for instance, the University of Tennessee contacted Paige and I and a guy named Danny Wilson who does mascots and stuff like that, really great artist and does a lot of work for University of Tennessee to tell the Gatlinburg Fire story back a few years ago when the town generally burned down. and what we did was we studied 200 hours of research of oral histories, and I created narratives. I created 20 pieces of visual art that told the story of the fire from the second

it started on chimney tops all the way to when it started rain after the fire. So visual journalism and stories like that, yeah, there's a place for that. And there's a place for the skills that I use as an editorial cartoonist for them to be able to interpret things and be able to create it visually. that's so cool that's got to be rewarding too it is and it's like i've i've Alex and I were talking the way up here I was like I've got three or four friends that that um that have died you know and did the near death and they were telling me there and all them same same story and I don't think any of them were pulling my leg on this one but they were like

you know the one thing we truly brought with us to the other side was all the moment of love and giving that we ever did and and and you know I mean and I don't don't know if I if it was the spinal surgeries our head or the concussions or what but something along the way just made me realize maybe it's time for me start getting back I'm on the back nine and he started you know I want to have fun but I want to be able to give back and be able to give what charlie daniel gave me and wanda patterson and fay julian and my dad what they did for me we'll be right back you want to know what my evenings actually look like homework questions someone needs a permission slip signed the dog's begging for a walk someone's

yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why HelloFresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat,

and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled. That's one less thing pulling at me. And that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life. That's right.

Free sides for life. Go to Hellofresh.cate and use code rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.cate code rescue 50. HelloFresh. Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. There's no championship league for small business owners. But if there was, you'd be at the top of the standings. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation.

One-on-one advice, IT solutions, and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business Goes Pro with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for free at Lenovo.com slash pro. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page. business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not

his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person, a billion dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.

Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? sometimes that I'm not listened to, I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at soundedouttogether.org. That's sounded outtogether.org.

Brought to you by the Ad Council and Pivotal. Like if we're on the air here and I literally have my contract here and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven-figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built a cultural empire, the Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man.

Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent, creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real.

I ain't got to say too much. I'm a gradie, baby. Shut up. Listen to where Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So there's more coming to your story. You and I are both too old to say we're young, but we're too young to say we're done.

That's right. It's the way I think about myself in today's world. Eight-year-old you who wanted to be an editorial cartoonist, who has been that and has, hosted radio shows and the PBS thing and is now doing the lab at Oxford and has written two children's books and all of that feels like you just keep grabbing the rope. That's right. And not without dad and Wanda Patterson and Charlie Daniels. and all of these people, these normal people that we never know, you know, this trip that you've been on really doesn't take place in the same vein that it did today.

Right. What does that say to you about the importance of your role being the next guy to help the. next person they said i'm thinking about these kids at olmiss i'm thinking about the people in the lab that you're working with um you know you have a role in paying it forward now um and to me that's and as i coached football again this year i don't know if you know yeah ned you got to coach against your son uh i did and you won beat his yeah i was listening to that just like gone said i don't I don't care if I'm coaching football or playing my wife in tennis. My job is to whoop that.

I looked up the score right after I heard that episode. I was like, I want to see you on this one. It was something. But the point is, you know, I'm finding myself investing in young coaches as much if I'm investing in players. Yeah. And it's, you get to this interesting place that you end up becoming Charlie Daniels. you end up becoming Wanda, you end up becoming dad.

Do you feel that? Yeah, I'm starting to feel it. Let me tell you a quick story. When I had melanoma, I've got anxiety really bad when your skin tries to kill you. And both my parents... I think you're allowed to have anxiety when you feel like you may die. Yeah, at 32. It was kind of a little rough.

It was terrible. It was terrible. But when you have a little one, too. A friend of mine lost his dad to the disease, Keith Warren. And so we got together and we were talking about it. And he said, you know, people just don't know about melanoma. They don't understand anything about it. I said, you know, the thing about it is if you catch it early, it's like 100% curable,

but you got to catch it early. It's like the crack on your windshield, right? If you don't get it fixed, it's going to spread and you're going to die. So we created a 5K race, and we did that for 10 years. And I got my plastic surgeon who caught mine and saved my life. He volunteered and he screened people. Just incredible. Kenneth Barazza, incredible human being.

literally, I embarrass him all the time by saying, you saved my life because he did. One day I was driving down the interstate and a guy got on the radio and he said, he was talking about something and they were talking about my race coming up. And he said, you know, I heard Marshall Ramsey talking about that and I went and got a mold checked

and it turned out to be a melanoma and I've got a chance of survival. And he said, my wife died last year of cancer and my daughter will now have a parent. And I just pulled off the side of the road and I just start bawling because everything I had held inside of me just released. And I realized that really the only way to save yourself, and I don't, you don't do, I never did any of that for myself.

I did it because I wanted other people to have that. But my anxiety went away. Really? Yeah. Over the melanoma. I've got it over my job and everything else. Everybody. But over the moment.

But in the world. But in melanoma, because I realize that as long as I help other people on that, any time you can help somebody on the journey you're on, you're going to be a lot better off. Now, do I live up to that every day? No. Do I have days when I don't want to get out of bed? Yeah. I mean, it's just normal. I wish I were Superman. You know, I try to get up and walk every morning since I've had the back surgery. I ran a marathon at 50 and had spinal surgery at 43. That was great. I'm an inch taller now, though. That's cool. And I get free Wi-Fi. So it's had its upside on that. But, yeah, It's, you know, I think at this point, you know, I love my boys.

I hate that I had to hustle so much when they were young. I feel like I was away a lot more than I needed to be. But I'm so proud of the men that they've become. All three of them are incredible. And I love my wife, who, you know, we've been married a long time, so she's pretty much sick of me, I bet, of a lot of my stuff. But she's amazing. And so if I can give back a little bit of.

bit to my community, to the students. And the students are incredible. I mean, you know, the selfish thing about it is that they inspire me. I was just about to say the payoff invariably to every guest that sits in that chair will say, I get so much more out of it than I'll put into it. That's right. Yeah, that's, that'll preach. Um, what, uh, if you could line them up and just say what you want to say, what would you say to these people who affected you, to these people who supported your greatness? More than thanks. Yeah, thanks is just like, you know, I don't feel like it's enough.

Yeah. The only thing that I truly say is that I now understand your brilliance and I hope that I can carry half the water that you've carried in your life. I think they'd all be proud. I think so. Yeah. I mean. I mean.

around. So you can talk to them. Wanda said something really nice the other day, too, on my Facebook. So that was nice. So she's still checking out and make sure everything's okay. Faye was very proud of me. And I was very proud of her. And I mean, you were a second favorite student.

Second favor, man. I got number two behind Payton Manning. I mean, that's okay. That's pretty sweet. If you're sick of paid, that's not bad. Payton's pretty cool guy. So I feel like I did okay. There's out there right now listening to us somebody.

who has artistic talent and is trying to figure out what they can do with it. That's right. What's your advice to him? Do the work. Just keep grinding out there because you never know. There was a cartoon.

I didn't draw it. And I remember there's like a guy that's like digging in a diamond mind and he stops. And it's like an inch away from hitting all the diamonds because he stopped. It's like, don't stop. And it's hard because it's like, I'm sure my dad, to his credit, he wasn't too big, too sarcastic about me coming home and being a custodian and living at home, you know, after paying for college and then I come home and did.

But I think he also understood I was working hard at it. And, you know, that's the thing. If you work hard at it and you're earnest, you know, the nice thing is we have this thing called chat GPT that helps you with business plans. There are different ways that you can make money. I mean, you go out and you go, I mean, I was at a Christmas festival and there were people there that were selling. their goods and selling their things. Do the work. Get really good at what you do. And then at the end of the day, if you can serve others while you're doing it, I think that's

the ultimate. Amen. Marshall, one more time. And I'm sure there's others. But your dad, Wanda, Faye, Charlie, and others along your way. Yeah. Names that deserve recognition. Maybe that book doesn't exist without them.

And maybe you don't have that career at the Clearing Ledger and maybe 10,000 cartoons aren't drawn and maybe so many lives. No, not maybe, definitely. Are not impacted without those strikes. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody, Marshall Ramsey, now you know the name to match with those cool cartoons you have seen. all over the place, the guy behind it is a great dude who has paid homage to these folks that have helped him get where he's going. But more importantly, it's now working to

give back to the next generation of content creators. And I think that is the coolest part of the story, my friend. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Always good to sit down and have a conversation with the bill. Always good to hang out with you. I guess before we sign off, I do have to say, I don't remember how it happened, but there is one of your cartoons hanging on my wall. Oh, it's the turkey one. It's the turkey person thing that you drove. I don't know if I had interviewed you at that point or what? No, you sent it to me in the mail.

Yeah, I was really moved by that. I really did. I thought it was great. I just thought it was a funny image. And so I was like, yeah, I want to get to no bill, I think. You know, because I was a fan. I show it to everybody. It's in my office, and it's one of the things I'm proudest of is shortly.

after undefeated and I started doing speeches. I told the turkey person story. Somehow, you read it and something and reached out and we became friends. And then this cool cartoon of your vision of what the turkey person story has came up. And it is framed and on my wall in my office today, my friend. Well, I can put you on a list too then because just getting to know you has been wonderful. It's been awesome. I don't think it's public yet.

I think we need to. I tried searching you while we're. here. I don't think it's online at all. We should we need to fix that. What's that? That cartoon. Oh, well, go go to my office. Let's take a picture of it and blow it up. Yeah. Yeah. It's everywhere. It's really, really cool. I mean, it was when I got it, I would, it's one of my, you know, look, there's awards and all that stuff, but it's stuff like that that that means the most. And so it's proudly displayed on the walnut paneled wall of my office right now. So take a picture and do something with it. So I thank you for that. Oh, you're welcome.

All right, buddy. Godspeed. And I can't wait to hear what you do next. And one more time, everybody, saving Sam. Get it for your kids. It's beautifully illustrated. And it's really a cool little book. And the first one is... It's Banjo's Dream. Yeah. Yeah. There it is. There's a few of them you can get on Amazon, I think, still. There they are. Marshall Ramsey, look it up. All right. Good to see you.

Safe Travel's home and Merry Christmas. Thank you. Merry Christmas. All right, buddy. And thank you for joining us this week. If Marshall Ramsey has inspired you in general or better yet to take action by supporting someone else in their journey as a mentor, a coach, a friend, or even loving your family better, please let me know.

I really do want to hear about it. you can write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks.us. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends. Share it on social. Subscribe to our podcast. Rate it, review it. Join the Army at normalfolks. Us, any and all of these things that will help us grow.

An Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can. There's no Championship League for small business owners, but if there was, you'd be at the top of the stick. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One-on-one advice, IT solutions, and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition.

Business goes pro with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for free at Lenovo.com slash pro. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement. the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. John has never been anything but gay, but he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, could you draw up a quick document with the Bates? basic business plan, just one page as a Google Doc, and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear?

I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well-being at sounded outtogether.org. That's sounded outtogether.org. Brought to you by the app.

Council and Pivotal. I didn't really have an interest of being on air. I kind of was up there to just try and infiltrate the building. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire. The Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man.

Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and The full series is available to listen to now. Listen to Atlanta is on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.