An Army of Normal Folks - Sonia Agron: Volunteering at Ground Zero Made Her Sick, But She Doesn’t Regret It (Pt 1)

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

When the World Trade Center was struck on 9/11, Sonia promised her husband, an NYPD officer who responded to the attack, that she wouldn’t go to the site to help. But she couldn’t keep that promise and volunteered as a recovery worker at Ground Zero on overnight shifts. In addition to grieving their losses, the Agrons soon began to deal with various illnesses brought on by exposure to Ground Zero’s toxic environment. In spite of this, Sonia has continued volunteering by leading tours at the 9/11 Tribute Museum and 9/11 Memorial. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jo came home and he sees me dress and goes, um, it's 10. I go, yeah, I got to go to Brooklyn, sign in, get my paperwork done, and four. Um, been assigned to ground zero. No, you haven't. Yes, I haven't. Don't we usually discuss things? I said, yeah, but you've been too busy. And he looked at me and he goes, I don't want you to go.

And I said, well, where would you be? We got into the car and he would not speak to me. We got to Brooklyn. And he opened the door. And he said, you sure I can't convince you? I said, will you stop going? And he got back in the car and said, I'll see you tomorrow. I said, good.

I said, we're not winning any fight here. It's just something I need to do. Welcome to an Army of Normal Fogs. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, a father, an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in Intercity Memphis. In the last part, unintentionally led to an Oscar for the film about our team.

It's called undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox. But, whether by an army of Normal folks us, just you and me saying, hey, I can help. That's what Sonya A. Grant, the voice we just heard, is done. After the 9-11 terrorist attacks, Sonya volunteered at the toxic rubble of Ground Zero to help support their covering cleanup effort.

And this duty she felt that her husband Joe could not stop, tragically resulted in a steep, personal price that you'll soon hear about. And yet, despite that, Sonia would do it all over again. And she's still volunteering through a world of pain. I can't wait for you to meet Sonia right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Sonia, how are you? I am doing just fine.

It is wonderful to meet you. I've been looking forward to talking with you. I've got so many questions for you. But this is an army of normal be thinking that I'm speaking to you in the shadow of freedom tower right now is even more surreal for me. And we'll get into why that's important in a minute. But first, would you come from?

Would you grow up? Who is Sonya the little girl? Sonya was born and raised in the South Bronx. And South Bronx? Yep. South Bronx is their difference in North, I'm from Memphis. Yes. Are there difference in North and South Bronx? Yeah. Okay. Of course, North Bronx is on the other side. And South Bronx is on the, I was saying the beginning when you get off the

highway, there you are in the South Bronx. Back when you grew up there, is there a difference in the nationalities of people? Oh no, no, no. When I grew up, dear, Lord, we had Italians, Irish, Blacks, Latinos. Just a real out melting pot. A more gush A lot of people. And for us, it was like, let's learn how to do this. Let's learn how to do that.

It was amazing. So is the microcosm of New York really? Absolutely. It was just so beautiful. And it's gone. Is it? It is. It's lost that identity now.

Absolutely. And a lot of places, I would say except maybe little Italy has lost that cultureism that we all were a part of. No, we didn't see races and we didn't have people talk down to us. It was just, it was just one big, it was a village. It was a village. And so that's, and that's where you grew up. Indeed, you you go to school and yes, I hold my life. I went to St. Pius Elementary School at St. Pius. St. Pius? It's not forget the fit. And St. Pius to fifth high school. Got it. And when you graduated high school, what did Sonia want to do? Well, experience at that time, me I didn't want to be in a Catholic school anymore. And so I turned down college applications and decided to just go work.

I wanted to be free from all of that guilt that they were putting in here. And I can't take for more years of this, which is a regret. It is a regret. But you, so you went to work. I went to work for an insurance company and then my mom didn't like that. So she pulled me out and put me in a multi-service company that services the entire area for services that the city or the government won't provide. So you grow up in the Bronx, do you have siblings? Oh, well, I'm the baby.

So there's four more for me? Four more before you survive. Yep, yep. Just a good old Catholic family having kids. Absolutely. What was your, what was the, your, your mother and father what they do? Well, my father was a shoe cop that he made shoes.

This was right after he got out of the Korean War. And he stayed doing that for several years. My mother worked with him. And then, sadly, my dad got sick. And mom had to stay home and take care of him and us at the same time. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, but you know, it was just... But you didn't know any difference.

It was normal. Yeah. It just grew up, big, tight, Catholic family. Yeah. It was normal. Yeah. It just grew up big tight, Catholic family. Yeah. It was normal. Dinner was pretty good. Oh, dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig a dig dig a dig a dig a dig dig a dig a dig a dig a dig dig a dig dig Rice doesn't sound Italian to me. You're starting to understand. It's not Italian. It's Puerto Rican because we would go to the live chicken store. And they would, you know, turn the neck of the chicken in. Hold it in the Bronx.

You'd get a lot of chicken. It's called the Bibam. And you wouldn't the chicken snack. No, we didn't. No, the butcher did. And then they would defather him. And then we would have homemade chicken soup with the leftover of whatever we put in the rice and the beans.

Well, because you said, Italian and Irish and everything, I'm the Latin part. Well, no, I was thinking Italian foods, but so your heritage Puerto Rican? Yes. I got it. So it wasn't just Italian and Irish,

it was Puerto Rican. Yeah, we, wow. I always say Latinos because it covers everybody. Yeah, yeah. Wow. What a way to grow up. I loved it. So you ended up getting married to this guy Yeah, which was hard. I have known him. He was a family friend Yeah, and I knew him and he had been married

And he would always talk to me. He just said he was Joe Joey again Was also for the Bronx. Yeah. Yes. Is it everybody from the Bronx? Same job. No, there are some places elsewhere there. And Italian neighborhoods. You have a lot of Giuseppe's there.

All right. So he was a family friend. Um, and there were times when I would, you know, it was a party girl. I would come home. It's like you were a party. Yes, I was. But you're a, you a, a Catholic party girl. I would come home. You were a party. Yes, I was. But you're a Catholic schoolgirl. This was way after. I found my wings. My only thing was that I loved to dance and I loved to go out to different restaurants. That's just what the girls wanted to do.

We hated doing that with guys because they would just bother us drag. My husband and midnight would see me leave, and then he'd see me come back, and he would start lecturing me like a dad, and I used to tell him, my dad's gone. You don't have to be places. And then one day, actually, he told my sister that he was interested in me, but I kept turning him away, because I didn't want any baggage. You know, I'm married, well, divorced and a child. I'm like, You know, I'm marrying, well, divorce and a child. I'm like, you know, no, no, plus he wasn't cop. Yeah, a cop. Yeah. He was to date it. No. And he was so serious all the time. But you know, he served him to be at No more. His brother was a vet and then his mother pulled the Sullivan Act. Call the congressman and I don't want my boy to go.

It wants to date that guy. Well, I did. Apparently it happened. I didn't because I just felt too much luggage. You know, I don't want that. And then one day my sister said, he has something to tell you. And it came to the apartment and I said, well, and he's a friend by now. He says, well, there's somebody I like that you know. And I want to know, how I said, well, and he's a friend by now. Right.

This is, well, there's somebody I like that you know. And I want to know, how should I go about asking her? And I said, this is his approach to you. Yes. So I said, I know this person. Now I'm feeling really mad because I really, really did like him. And now he likes somebody that I like. And I'm like, oh.

And then I said, just tell her you like and you want to take her out. You want to see how far this goes. And he repeated it. And I said, yeah, oh. And then I said, just tell her you like and you want to take her out. You want to see how far this goes. And he repeated it. And I said, yeah, great. You got it. Yeah, I like you and I want to take you out. I want to see how far this goes.

You're great. Second time's great. You don't have to do it again. Yes, I do. I like you. And I want to take you out and see where it goes. And I just started to mumble like, ooh, me? Really me?

And he had a call. He went back, I went up to my sister and she said, he does really like you. But you just keep turning him away and I go, well, what do I do now? He's a family friend. Who dates their friends? And I don't know, here we are, 38 years later.

What, how old were we are 38 years later. What held we? I was 22 to his 29. Got it. Oh, he robbed the cradle. He sure, they did, and I always remind him. He robbed the cradle and a party girl. Yeah. Well, that's the how to.

I got it a lot of my system, you know. Yeah, we all did, right? He was just a great addition to a life that I wanted to have because I was getting tired of the party. You know what, that story, the whole thing is awesome because this is an army of normal folks and I'm not spending time interviewing fancy smart politicians that use big words that, uh, look, if it's more in three syllables, I have a problem with it anyway. Cause so, and, you know, you are a Bronx girl, one of five grew up going to Catholic school and didn't go to college, went to work,

and ended up marrying a cop. Divorced with a child. Divorced with a child, but, you know, I mean, just a, you're just a normal gal trying to forge a life in our country. Absolutely. So you were. So half of your marriage is a cop and the other half ends up getting into emergency medical

services. I was always working at ministry. I was working in a hill, different companies and one day they're on my lunchtime a woman just collapsed on the street. Remember we didn't have cell phones, any of that, and people just walked by her. And I say, Oh, yeah, that's, that's, I've heard those stories. But when you say walk by, you mean acted like they didn't even see the person. And I see that, that makes me crazy. That was to me just graceful because it is just good. My mother, right. And she was, or your daughter, absolutely. It could have been anybody. I knew or even someone I well, I didn't know. Right. And she was she must have had a spainting spell,

but she was confused. She was sitting on the sidewalk. And, you know, I called. There was a steak shop and I screamed out and I said, can you call 911 please? And I asked the question. So did you go meal by her? I stood by her and I actually gave me numbers to see if there was anyone I could call and all she did was hold my hand She was trembling and she said I just got a little faint. That's it. Are you sick? I asked all these questions and of course you have no training You're just being a this is what you're supposed to do. Yeah, just being a kind you know I was just sad for her that I didn't know she had family not, but what if she didn't, how would she get home? How would anyone help her?

And so I, they called the ambulance and I stayed with her and I just jotted down on a napkin. Everything she had told me and this was a number in case she passed us out. And I wasn't allowed to go on the bus at the time. But that was kindness, but did that spark something for you? Immediately. I started looking up medical jobs. And at that time, you had to take a training for EKG.

Then you had to take a training for being a philbotomist. Then you had to take a training for this. And I had all my certificates and I still wasn't happy. And so my husband, he would become my husband then. He would say, well, why don't you try you know, EMS or the police department? And I tried the police department, went through everything and I guess my husband didn't think I would manage. And he said, oh, no, there's only room in this family for one. You make me nervous. I would always worry about who are you going to go after.

And I said, so I'm going to go to EMT school. It's what I wanted. You may not have wanted his wife to have a gun, though. He didn't. Yeah. No, he didn't. I mean, the decision was made by me when he took me to the range and I had to shoot.

And I said, yeah, no, there's no way I'm ever going to do that. I'm not comfortable with that. No, you know, I can't run fast. But it led to. It led to me going to EMS and when I graduated, it was one of the most proudest days of my life because now I'm accomplishing something, not just working for money and put a roof over my head.

And it was, if I was able to go back, I would go back in a heartbeat. I love that job. And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, we're now offering premium memberships for the Army of Normal folks. For $10 a month, you receive special benefits, such as being invited to a private yearly call with other premium members and me,

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marketing efforts to grow it. This podcast, I speak to number 10 on Apple's podcast chart and all of the US which is absolutely crazy and it's not about me it's about the guest and it's about you. So we've decided to set an exciting new goal of trying to be on Apple's top shows chart for our entire first year which will mean more attention more listeners more army members most importantly, more impact. But we need you, as always, so go to normal folks.os and click on Premium if you're down to help. If not, just keep listening. We'll be right back. So here we go. And then at some point you guys have a daughter. I think we had a daughter, once a cop, once an EMS person,

and you guys are just doing the life, right? For us that was it. But that's a great life. Everything's normal. And you're cruising down normal Americana Street. Absolutely. Live in the dream. Absolutely. And not 11 comes.

Well, I was retired by then, but because of an accident, and I just became a perpetual volunteer. I knew where they needed help. That's where I was. So 9 11 was my husband's 51st birthday. And that morning, his only job I assigned him jobs, was to take our daughter to school, come home, turn on the TV and relax until I got back. I was in Manhattan. We were going to celebrate his day. And I was in the NBC building. And we were told to evacuate.

Nobody was telling us why. I'm thinking, Gasly, come in New York, I know how this works. And then wall to wall people, fighter jets, and I knew something was wrong. Oh, you saw the fighter jet in this gas. Yes, this is in Midtown. And suddenly my cell phone rang up, and the only odd thing about that, and not family, we didn't want everyone to have a cell phone. So whoever went out, that day got the cell phone. Got it. So I got it.

And he called me and he said, listen to me carefully, we're at war. We're under attack, you need to take the next bus out and stay away from the trains, but we got cut off. Was he worried that the trains were going, the trains had to be in balance? Yes, he said that. Because this is fresh, it's just happening.

Well, he had done a lot of training for disorder control and that include Biohazard things and he was He didn't say that was he on the job on the first failed attempt. Yes Yes, when was it 93? Yes, he was so when he came home that day the day after And now I don't think I'll ever forget the look on his face. He said, they're not done. They'll be back. And we better be prepared because they're going to do more damage than they did then. So when it really happened, his call to you was, he knew. And I guess, I guess you had to have known. No. At first, I thought gas leak, but when I saw I couldn't even turn around, there was so many people

Right, and I saw the fire the fire jets and I thought we were in deep trouble But I never thought it was the world trade sensor because they hit it once So I said this so when he when he called you and said don't take the trains We're or listen me carefully and it got cut off Did you did you know then it was the World Trade, you still didn't know. All you knew was all hell was breaking loose somewhere in your husband who had a direct line being a cop

to what was going on was telling you to go, huh? And that was all you knew then. Yep, and then I was, Which, which test to me, I mean, how many, not the exact number, but how many people on a given day are run around Manhattan? Oh, thousands.

Millions, right? I'm not more than that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'm thinking of you standing there with a group of people who are in school and off, there are literally millions of people who at this point, unless you're at the World Trade Center on this island, you really don't know what's going on. It's a lot of confusion.

We thought of bombs. We thought... What kind of bombs? Like somebody dropped a bomb or somebody bombed? We're thinking of 1993. Somebody put a bomb in a building. There are going to be several buildings. That's why they evacuate us because we're one of the tallest buildings. I'm imagining this. If you're standing in this group of people all pushed out, there's fighter planes up there. People are probably all getting calls from someone that's closer to it.

So you probably are all talking to each other about, you know, what is this? What is that? We're hearing, I'm hearing it, but my goal was, no, I don't do everything my husband tells me to do. But when he tells me get out or duck, that's what I do. And I ran to the bus stop and it was like a ghost town bus It's kept driving. There was nobody in there. They were not allowed to pick up anybody because the city had shut down So the buses weren't nothing which which leads me to the images of all the people.

I remember looking for Memphis, okay? And I believe rarely, but sometimes there are things that happen that affect our national consciousness and a guy from Memphis and a gal from the Bronx are rarely brought together and become kindred spirits as Americans, but that day did. And I remember where I was on that day and it put my reality is from images that the news, like most Americans, we weren't here, but I do remember the picture of all these people walking across the bridge. And I always thought, why are they walking? And of course, they can't catch cab or maybe they can't get to the car, but now I just now understand, one, you're afraid to go in the subways and the trains, because I guess

this New Yorkers' train, that's a picture point. Well, we didn't have a choice. The mayor had shut down the intent. We shut down the train, too. Maybe everything. So you couldn't even get on a bus. So the only way to get the hell out of here was walk. Walk or jump into the Hudson River, which is probably

the last time. Tom Hanks has a beautiful story that he does on YouTube where it's called the Unsung Heroes, where many people bought their pleasure boats, even the... The Cross. ...and people were jumping in, they didn't realize when they got out of the buildings that if they went upwards, that was the end of Manhattan. People were able to get through all the bridges and tunnels, but if you got out and ran

to your left, you were stuck. That's the end of Manhattan. So many friends of mine actually tell me the story of how they jumped in the water. They just kept seeing all these images and they needed to get out. They didn't care how. And that's desperation. That's fear. So Joe calls and says, listen to me, or don't get in the trains and find a way to get home basically. Yeah. And you do. I do.

But you don't hear from me. I don't find a way to get home until maybe four. I'm stuck. And I guess my training kicked in, where would I find accurate information? Because too many people were saying too many things. And that was inaccurate. And I've decided I'm going to go to a hotel. I'm going to have to have TVs. And I'm going to be able to hear clearly. And when I sat down at that point, I don't even remember their time, but I'm going

to assume it was a South Tower that went down. And then I'm just sitting there and shocked, is it a replay or what? And it must have been a replay because now we're hearing about shanks, well, we're hearing about the Pentagon. And then the North Tower would go up, no, then the South Tower does, so then it was a North Tower. You see how hard that is for me to figure out? It's, that's one thing that bothers me. Sometimes my memory is, I write things down.

And when I saw all this happen automatically, it clicks when he says, we're at war. Because I didn't understand when he said it to me. And I said, well, where is he calling me from? That he knew so much information. And at that moment, I thought he's gone. And I realized he was down there. I didn't think anything about my daughter.

I was just trying to absorb the fact that my husband was gone on his birthday. And I continued to watch and watch no phone calls, nothing. And at the bottom of the TV, the mayor put out a message that he was opening up the city for about an hour or two. And I ran, got a cab, got home, and now I'm thinking, I don't have my car. How do I get to my daughter? Where is my daughter? Is phone aren't, phones aren't working? Now what? But when I got home, she was there. And I realized that that moment, he must have picked her up when you heard the very first account. It hadn't been, it was alleged that a plane had hit the building. We didn't have any other

news. He picked up his keys because he knew this is it. This is what we've been waiting for for eight and a half years. And he picked our daughter up, dropped her off. And she was sitting there and she watched everything. And when mom didn't come home, she thought- She's wondering if she's lost her family. Yeah, she thought I went to respond, because even though I was retired, once the first responder, always the first responder, we don't give that up.

So when you walk in- She thought I was a ghost. Yeah, she was like- She was in ghost. Yeah, she was like, wow, she was in shock. But what's interesting then now you and your daughter are there. Now the two of you are wondering about Joe. And that actually didn't last until maybe five because he did call until maybe five, because he did call. And but his voice was different. I've answered jobs with my husband.

And I know his voice. And he's saying, baby, it's bad. It's dark. And I'm looking out my window. Where are you? That it's so dark. And he says, it's a war zone. I can't see my hand.

And his voice is so different than anything I've ever heard. And I can hear the background radio. And he says, listen, it's, it's really bad. I, I, I sometimes I don't even know where I am and I have to collect my thoughts. Did he say I'm at this tower that? No, he said, I'm, he said, I'm getting a break at 10. And I will call you then I am Near Towers 7 setting up for the National Guard and Oh, the tower seven collapsed. Yes, but the class Okay, so he calls you Tower 7's still standing and he's setting up for the National Guard and all you know is it's bad and you know you're strong

So guard right and all you know is it's bad and you know your strong cop husband But I'm good because dad is okay, but you hear in his voice and I'm thinking I'll just sight You know, he I know tower sevens across the street right and at one point after that the phone rings again There's no service, but he got through because of next tell the walkie-talkie yeah Sure, and the next thing I get another call, and I'm like, okay, he needs to talk again, which we were so happy to hear. And it was a friend from out of town. And as she's talking, I realized,

wait a minute, she got through. And I'm giving her everybody's number at home, call them. I can't get through. You can watch TV. Everything is now live. He's near how it's seven. And that's when I was informed how the seven went down. And I don't remember how we hung up. I just remember grabbing my daughter because she was saying how

horrible is this that we were allowed to say. I love you and happy birthday and he's gone and it was that moment that I needed her to realize, I couldn't be anybody but a mom at that time. And I needed her to understand that there were thousands of people that were never going to get that last goodbye. And we did. And I said, we're going to hold on to that. Because if he called and he said he's calling at 10,

he's going to call. So we sit, we pray, and we do whatever we can. So spiritually, we can bring people and we do whatever we can so Spiritually we can bring people back home and we did that He never called and so we thought he was you know, you've lost your husband and your daughter knows she's lost her father I didn't tell her. I am well she knew she what I kept telling her was come on, you know He's busy this title just went down He's running you're trying to reassure her which is a bunch of BS because inside your heart and head I had to be your mom. I get it. I couldn't see her

What good was it that our both of us were freaking out and then I just remember thinking I didn't want the day like to come because that meant I was Might I would be a single mom. But there's a twist to the story, which is he came home. He came home. Correct. Obviously. I didn't recognize him.

He was covered in that gray suit. He just managed to watch his face. And my husband came home, but his heart and soul was back there. He couldn't talk. He was totally, he was not the man I kissed goodbye the day before. And he wouldn't speak much except to say that he was injured. And I had to fix him up. What was his injury? He had fallen down about four flight to Florida was actually very weak. He had fallen down about four flights of stairs. And it looked like it. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let me get this. And let me just say this now and to our listeners

and to you. And I think now's a good good time for me to get on my soapbox for a minute. For people probably 35 years and older, we remember where we were. And it's kind of like, my grandparents always talked about they remembered where they were during Pearl Harbor. And then the next generation has come along and certainly they know historically what happened at Pearl Harbor, but they didn't feel it. Not like my grandparents did. And I still, before we sat down for our chat today, I walked around the corner and I looked up at the building and I just, I don't want to sensationalize the story for the purposes of trying to make a podcast that is interesting. And so that's not what my next questions and thoughts are going to be about.

But in the same respect, I feel like everybody in their young 30s, mid 30s to my children, they see every year in the anniversary of 9-11, the images on TV, and they know two buildings were hit by planes and they burned out, but they don't feel what I felt, and they sure as hell don't feel what you felt being here. And I feel like if we lose that collective consciousness as a nation, we risk a lot. And so I'm gonna ask you some questions, but again, it's not to sensationalize it.

It's because I want our listeners to try to feel this. And he came home with Sut all over him. And you say he fell down for flights of stairs, but how do you fall down for flights of stairs? The floors were very weak. I still don't know the building he was in or if it was just a place. I'd have been near seven. Yeah, well, I don't even know when he fell.

I don't know where he fell because my husband hasn't spoken. Well, something had to have collapsed for him him. So he was in a collapsing building. Somewhere, but he can never get there to tell me. Okay. But I saw the... He still to the stage can't speak out. No, it's a lot. He won't talk about. Understand.

But I did find a way. PTSD, right? No. We didn't even know we had it. Understand. We didn't know we had it. But so he fell and he came when he came home it was not a joy for reunion and he's blank from what he's witnessed but he want you to fix him up. Why didn't he just go to the hospital? Well he couldn't because they would

have reported it back to NYPD and then NYPD would not have allowed him to go back to the site So he came to his wife who has this emergency medical training She fixed the month so he said, Fix me so I can go back Because if I go to the hospital, I can't go back and serve His whole goal was to save somebody and he didn't and that's always what he did. What was wrong with the Moses? He, when I cut his pants off, he had a very deep gash on the side of his knee and it looked

like his knee had moved and it looked horrible and I told him that's above my pay grade and he says, well you don't have to fix it but I'm going back and I just took out my kit and did butterfly stitches and taped them up. And I said, you have to go to the dog. Did you have no cane or anything? Nothing. Nothing. You stitched him up. What?

Butterfly stitches. They're not actually needle and thread. They're just butterfly stitches. I held the skin together and crossed them over. I put a ton of acidation. And I covered him as best as I could and I said, you need to go because this is going to get infected. You're going to get infected in that side. And so did he get, did he,

what did he do? Shower, get it by teething them. Leave took a shower, didn't he sat on the sofa and he goes, okay, this is my schedule. I'm going. We were speechless. Like, why are you going back? Didn't you fulfill your... This is how we're thinking. And he's saying, oh, this is not going to happen. We're not going to fix this up in 24 hours, honey. I don't even know if we're going to come back from this.

We'll be right back. So Alex, our steam producer does really good work on prepping stuff and in that prep, I read that he did say very briefly, it's bad, the stench is horrible. Soot is everywhere and body parts. Is that am I paraphrase? No, no, I mean, not he, um, I should have voted. I'm sorry. There's a picture of him standing in front of Brooks Brothers with his sergeant, and that's a clothing store. And he had to bring his team in through seven air, several areas that the police department had cleared. And he was kicking a couple of things that he thought were manic and they wanted. And his heart breaks because he said I didn't get to bring anyone home.

That one thing I could have been closure for a family member and it was all over the place. And he just, to this day, he even wonders about his partners where they in pieces. And it's hard not to think about that because that's something people don't know. No, and see, this is just gut-wrenching, but I feel like it's something... I've heard so many interviews and read so much about it, but we don't talk about this enough in my opinion,

because as hard as this to think about and hear, if you don't understand this, you don't understand the depth of this attack. No, they don't. Why were there body parts on the ground? When the buildings went down, they went down Hurricane Winforses. So we have 110 floors. We were losing 10 floors per second. So those towers went down in 12 seconds. And so if you were in the way, you were pulverized. And this was mostly from the top, maybe,

as the towers kept going down, it just took people with them. Some whole bodies were found, but not until months later. And you were, I hate to say you were found, but not until months later and you were I hate to say you were lucky, but if you weren't in the higher floors There was a chance they would find a good portion of your body if you won the lower floors There was no chance. What if you were just outside the buildings if it was her case form the sheer power An energy created by the following building,

even if you were a hundred feet or 200 feet away from the actual rubble of the building, the wind would repeat. You would have been, people wanted cars. At one point when my husband called earlier that day, I kept hearing him do a spitting sound, which I'm not like like what are you doing?

And he says I'm just pulling him. Concrete. Stuff that came in my mouth when the second tower went. So now I know he was there for the second tower going down and he won't talk about anymore. I know that I heard him tell one of his friends, which I have made a point to bring a lot of his friends back. And it's his life where he says, you know, what could I do, but run? This cloud was chasing us. And you, it was, that's what he was talking about, the darkness. And he kept saying, I never seen anything like this before.

And do they feel some kind of weird guilt because they had to run? Yeah, my husband does. He says, well, so they're going to do. Well, stay in there and die. That's what I told him. And he said, it was coming after us. And as I'm running, I'm trying to get people to run with me.

But he would feel guilty. He would start feeling guilt about two or three weeks later when the mayor finally said it was no longer a rescue and recovery. It was just recovery. And that's when he had to accept his friend was gone his partner. He trained with him, did a lot of things with him,

and he goes, I can't accept that he's gone. And I'm not. And as a wife, I want to tell him that's kind of a blessing. You live to talk about it and he goes, I'm not talking about this. No one would ever believe it because we're cops. This is our job. So the firefighters, the police, the port authority,

all the first responders there that day. Again, not to sensationalize it, but I mean, before the buildings fell, there were people on the top of these towers that had a choice to make, which is die by my flesh melting or jump. And they did. And I remember reading something that said that one of the most horrific sounds of the day was the thought of bodies hitting the ground. And there are videos where you hear that. What's that? There are videos where you hear that. The firefighters are looking up and you can hear the thud. We had one of those videos at the 911 Tribute Museum and we turned the sound off because family members would come to visit the museum and we didn't want them to think was that my

son, my mother, my daughter. So we had to... That's fine. Yeah, we didn't want to do that. And then we also had an airplane window and we didn't identify what plane it was because we didn't want any family member to come in and wonder if their loved one was sitting next to that window. And so these first responders, the ones that survived the day, and that's surviving. They survived that day. That's it.

I will tell you, um, they started dying on 9-11. So we didn't know. And first the PTSD gets you, then you have the, we call off the World Trade Center mark. It's a call if we all have, when we wake up in the morning or soon after that, we were pulling things out of our nose that were dark and slimy. We just didn't understand.

And then we had our own government tell us the air quality was safe, and that's because Wall Street had to open. So, you know, they needed the money. But money was more important in lives. We're gonna get to that in a second, because that's part of the beauty of what you've done with this. But again, I don't overdo it, but the bottom line is, if you survive the day and your first responder, now what you're doing is you're literally stepping over, not just you're not just cleaning up debris and rubble. You're cleaning up pieces of human beings. You're cleaning up

horrific things that that we are that Caring loving human beings just can't ever unsee or unfeel. Can't unring about. Right. Just can't. Okay. So for those of you who are listening and think 9-11 was just about two planes flying

into two buildings because some terrorists decided to attack us, that's true. But the other truth is that more people have died as a result of the cleanup. And since the day of 9-11, and actually died on the day of 9-11, that's true. So the truth is the attack is not quit killing even these 20 something years later. 9-11 didn't end for us.

It's still good. 9-11 didn't end for us. It still continues. It's continuing to this day. And we are told, especially some lives. I have two stories. My husband is sick and I was a recovery worker. I'm sick.

But when people don't know that, and they know that Joe is there, they go, what are you crying about? He came home. And they make you feel guilty. Because he's probably reliving it every single day. Oh, well, they don't know that. They just feel, I'm ungrateful that he came home. And they make you feel guilty. She's probably reliving it every single day. Oh, well, they don't know that. They just feel, I'm ungrateful that he came home,

look at all the other women that don't have husbands. And I'm like, just see if survivors go. Good time. Not just for his police officer friends, but for people. Do you have survivors go? No. I don't know. I just feel that I could have done more. Do you have survivors, go? No. I don't know. I just feel that I could have done more. I should have gone before. I should have...

I was so close, I could have just walked over and helped. My thought process was, get home to your daughter. You know, that's always been his job. You know. But after that, what were wrong with me, I was in a respite center, um, with the Red Cross. Well, hang on. Now, now, let me, let me explain that.

So as a normal person from the Bronx who grows up and marries this guy and has this love affair and starts off this normal American life and just a normal person living a life. You know, this not 11 interrupts and changes the rest of your lives forever. the rest of your lives forever. So Joe keeps coming home night after night with this filthy and blank staring his face and you have this EMS training and you decide you're gonna volunteer with Red Cross and and work in these centers

What was Joe's response to that? Well, he was very angry. He was angry. Super angry. Was he angry because he was trying to protect you? He just didn't want you to be part of it. No, that was it. It wasn't that I was going because he has never told me I couldn't go anywhere. Okay. But he asked me why. And I said because I lied to our daughter. For days after 9-11, I would take her to school and she didn't want to go to school. And I gave her this big patriotic talk about terrorism and now we can't let them win. And if she didn't go to school, You're being tough mom. I was loving mom, but I didn't believe one word I said I just needed her to go to school and be 16 so I would After she went to school I would drive on and leave some trees and sit there until it was time for harder to get out And every day I lied I was I had a great day and I did this and I did that until one day she came out of school and said mom

We're gonna be okay. But you know, I can see you out the window. She saw you part on the front. Oh, her friends. I thought it was so cool. Well, you were in the car crying. I was crying. I was listening to music.

So your daughter is in school looking out at your mom sitting in the car after I'm telling her that she shouldn't do this. And so I felt I sent her the wrong message and I just called a few people and before I know you're going to Brooklyn and I mean back then that's not a funny. No, no, I laugh about it all the time. And then one day Joe came home and he and he sees me dressed and goes, um, it's 10. And I go, yeah, 10 a clock at a a PM 10 PM and you're dressed up ready to go

Did he think maybe you're Reverting back to your party girl times. No, okay. I wouldn't want to do that. I was kidding But he just came in and goes are we going somewhere and I said no you're not but I got to go to Brooklyn sign in get my paperwork done and for Been assigned to ground zero. No you haven't sign in, get my paperwork done and four. Been assigned to ground zero. No, you haven't. Yes, I haven't. Don't we usually discuss things?

I said, yeah, but you've been too busy. I always try to get out of these things. And I said, well, I'm going. And he looked at me and was, I don't want you to go. And I said, well, where would you be? And he drove me. He didn't want you to go. And I said, well, where would you be? And he drove me. He didn't want you to go. He was afraid.

Because he was afraid of everything you were going to be. He even actually, well, what I do with her, my daughter, and I go, she's 16. She knows how to put herself to sleep. But what if you're not here in the morning? She knows how to get herself to school. And he goes, but, and I go, no more but, honey, I'm going because you were there.

I want to be there, too. I want to help. We got into the car and he would not speak to me. We got to Brooklyn and he opened the door and he said, you sure I can't convince you? I said, oh, will you stop going? And he got back in the car and said, I'll see you tomorrow. I said, good. I said, we're not winning any fight here.

It's just something I need, good. I said, we're not winning any fight here. It's just something I need to do. And once you understand that, you won't have a problem with me going down. And he didn't after that. That concludes part one of our conversation with Sonya Agron. And I really hope you'll listen to part two that's now available. As her heroism, it's just getting started. But, if you don't, make sure you join the Army of Normal folks at Normal folks start us and sign up to become a member of the movement. It only takes committing to doing

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