An Army of Normal Folks - The One Thing You Need Before Grit, Resilience, or Confidence (Pt 1)

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Contrary to popular belief, hope isn't a feeling. It's a formula that Dr. Ashley Cross is about to teach you about. And according to research, it's the single best predictor of wellbeing. More than grit, resilience, confidence, and it’s needed to unlock all of them.  Dr. Cross is one of the nation's leading practitioners of the "Science of Hope” through the incredible work of her Rochester nonprofit Hope 585 and now through her work advising the hope-centered movement in Memphis.  Her hope lessons in this episode might just change your life…  and definitely can help many of the lives you’re serving. Learn more about her work at Hope585.orgSupport the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hope is agency thinking, which is if I set a goal, I believe that I have the skills, the resources, to apply to getting me towards that goal. We also sometimes call it willpower. Plus pathway thinking, which is, if I have a goal, do I know the paths that I need to take to get me there? So that's essentially point A to point B thinking. When you can increase an individual's agency and their pathway at the same time, you're increasing their hope. because the data tells us that hope is the single best predictor of well-being. Not grit, not resilience, not confidence, hope.

Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis. And that last part, it somehow led to an Oscar for the film about one of my teams.

That movie's called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits talking big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. Guys, that's us, you and me, saying, you know what? Maybe I can help. Maybe I can be the answer. That's what Dr. Ashley Cross, the voice you just heard has done. Ashley is a leading practitioner of, get this, the science of hope, something that you've probably

never heard of before, but it just might change your life. And definitely it can help many of the lives that you're serving. She's the founder of Hope 585, which seems to do everything in Rochester, New York. She's advisor to the Hope-centered movement that's now rolling in Memphis, and I cannot wait for you to meet her right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Close your eyes, and you can hear the entire world. Come alive. 2026 FIFA World Cup is on, and you can stream it all live on TSN Radio.

From the opening kickoff to the final celebration, every match, every moment. Listen to FIFA World Cup on TSN Radio. It's Canada to the lift off. Available on I Heart Radio. I love the sounds. The buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place, soccer, football, it's home.

Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Echabari, and this is American Football. a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots.

We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that.

As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, Listen to American Football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult.

There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mainstream media is full of cruel depictions of the unhoused, stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We The UnHouse is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created. the space where the un-housed and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers,

veterans, the LGBTQTIA plus community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. We do-in-house is a two-time webby and signal award-winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Jill Whitcher, a street doctor turned to influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to Weezy &House on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly, he became someone else,

a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets.

But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. this is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dr. Ashley Cross, what's up? Hey, how are you? I'm good. Appreciate you being here, but you're in Memphis relatively frequently.

right? Yeah, yeah, for the last nine months. Yeah. I've been here every three months. Really? Yes. First time in Memphis was November for the Hope Summit. Got it. Yeah. So everybody, Dr. Ashley Cross, I'm going to call you Ashley, but look, anybody who has been able to get all the way through a doctorate deserves to be at least introduced as Dr. Ashley Cross. I'm a psychology major too. Got it. Yep. So I have a lot of respect for Dr. Ashley Cross. Yeah, you know, my mom named me Ashley. So everybody, Dr. Ashley Cross is the founder of Hope 585. She's an advisor to the Hope centered Memphis effort.

She's from Rochester, New York, formerly of Tulsa, I believe. Yeah, but I'm actually from Denver. From Denver and then Tulsa and then Rochester. Clearly you like to move around, which we'll get into. And you did stuff in Tulsa's. well, which we'll get to. But for the purposes of this conversation, she's the founder of Hope 585. We're going to unfold this, but you've done so many amazing things from being the third, third generation in your family to welcome foster kids in your home, which to me is

astounding, and we'll get into that. You created Tulsa's first home for girls experiencing homelessness because they're raging out of foster care, which is a huge issue that I still don't think people fully understand the ramifications of for the individual, but also for culture and society. And now we've got to figure out a better answer for that, what's you're working on. Your founding a nonprofit called Hope 585 in Rochester

that seems to do pretty much everything, and you're an advisor to our friends at Agape Child and Family Services here in Memphis, who are quarterbacking an important effort cultivating a hope-centered Memphis, which is interesting, and we're going to get into that. First, I want to start with this moment from your time conducting research for your doctorate

and how I think it seems to have shaped your life. So all of that, to ask this first question, Angela Duckworth popularized the idea that success comes from grit. And that has seemed to become a really American culturalized idea. Pull yourself up by your bootstrips. If you have enough grit, you can get through anything. And I think there is some truth to the fact that you need to have grit and a steadfast belief in your own ability to work hard and accomplish in our country.

But when you studied traumatized kids, you realized grit alone wasn't enough. Tell us what was missing. Yeah. So I actually went back to school to get my doctorate because I wanted to start a school for kids in foster care because I spent a lot of my time advocating for. the young ladies who are my foster daughters in the school system. First, so the people, just for perspective, you've got an undergraduate, I think, in psychology, right? My undergrad is in nonprofit management.

I'm sorry, undergrad, yes. In psychology. Yes, my master's in business. That was mine, too. Yep. And then I wanted to get my doctorate, but I had four kids and ran out of money. But then your master's, your master's is in. Nonprofit management.

Nonprofit management. So you've got your undergraduate psychology. Yeah. your master's in business with an emphasis on nonprofit management. Yeah. Then you went back to school and got a doctorate in. Education on leadership. Okay, so you're just not real bright.

Not at all. Not at all. Wow. I mean, that's pretty basic. Okay. So with that background, now you went back to get your doctorate and go ahead. I'm sorry. I just wanted our listeners to kind of have perspective.

Yeah, for sure. So while I was studying for my dissertation and doing chapter two, which is a lit review, I was really honed in on Angela Duckworth's grit. And at the time, I was actually measuring grit in the girls in the foster home because that's what I was out. You were measuring grit. Yeah. So there's a way that you can, you know, there's a grit scale. Really?

And so you can see how gritty someone is or how not so gritty they are. Is grit, would you call it toughness? It's persistence and passion. Okay. So it's, you know, am I passionate enough about my goals to be gritty, right? to get up every morning and be persistent towards that. To be honest, I'm still a huge fan of grit. Like, I want gritty people on my staff.

I'm raising daughters. I want them to be gritty, and I would say that I'm a pretty gritty person. But I also think that your environments around you, right, the connections, the relationships that you have, your internal belief system has to allow for you to get up every morning and be able to persist. And so as I was doing the research, I wasn't finding anything as it pertains to grit. And children in foster care, high trauma impacted individuals. And for me, that was kind of a stop.

Like, I was like, okay, I haven't seen this really tested or studied on vulnerable populations. And so as I was doing, you know, my lit review, I'm coming up with, I'm finding all these different motivational theories, right? So you have Bandura's self-efficacy theory. You know, we all know about Maslow's hierarchy and needs. You have Angela Doug Wards now grit. Maslow's hierarchy needs is a big one to me. Yeah, yeah. That triangle is such a simple way to break down really complex issues.

It is. It is. And so, like, just getting through all of these and really studying them. And I see how they're all so interconnected, right? The growth mindset. All of these things are really interconnected. But when I found hope, for me, it spoke to the foundation that everything else is built on. Right.

And so when C.R. Snyder, when I started to really peel back the hope theory that, you know, he created back in 1991 and did test it and measured it in vulnerable populations, people who are just being diagnosed with terminal illnesses and seeing that they recovered faster if they were higher hope. To me, hope is really getting to the root of it. And if it's this belief that your future can be brighter and better than your past, that you have the power to make it better, that's where I decided that I wanted to spend the rest of my career and the rest of my life preaching that. So you're saying then that you're a believer in grit, but grit alone is not enough because grit without hope is nothing.

Correct. I think you have to have hope before self-confidence, resilience. We talk about resilience a lot. And I always say, well, resilience, that's that bounce back factor, right? That's that ability to move myself forward in the face of all of the things that might be going on. But I say, you know, telling someone to be resilient is like telling them to walk forward before you help them stand up. Right? And for me, hope is helping them to get on their feet first. And then they take that belief that their future can be brighter in their past and they apply their resilience. So in this research and work that you did, that you decided, okay, well, this is what I'm dedicating my life to now, I would think the awakening to this idea would have to be profound if you decide, well, this is what I'm dedicating my life to now.

I would think the awakening to this idea would have to be profound if you decide, well, this is what I'm dedicating my life to. I'm really interested at what you found about both where hope comes from and why people have a lack of it. What did you find? So for my dissertation, I did my dissertation on how hope is impacted through Fostering. care. How hope is impacted through foster care, meaning both positively and negatively. Yeah. Yeah.

I went in and I wanted to be as unbiased as possible. So, you know, I did my dissertation actually in partnership with a group home, a boys' home in Tulsa. And I did a mixed method study. So what I did was we did the hope. You were at Orr Roberts. I was in Orr-Roberts. Okay.

So that makes sense. Yep. So, you know, we gave all of the boys at the boys home, the Hope Scale. and we scored them, and I took the highest hope scoring boys, and I took the lowest hope scoring boys and pulled them in for interviews. Are these all foster kids or kids in a home? We only did the boys that were in the foster care. So they have one cottage that was for substance-using boys

that were not necessarily in foster care. So we left that cottage out, and we focused on the kids that were in care. And what we found were that the 15-year-old boys, many of the 15-year-old boys were some of the highest hope-scoring boys, is because they were focused on transitioning out. So again, that future-focused thinking that they were finding some hope in, right, I'm going to be able to get my driver's license. We're starting to talk about transitional living programs. I found that my lower hope scoring boys were some of the younger kids who were waiting to be adopted.

And what I learned was when young people have goals that they're actually not responsible for, that they have no power over, it diminishes their hope. So if my goal is to be adopted, I can't control. that outcome, there's nothing that I can do to get adopted, but wait, and it starts to diminish their hope. My lowest hope scoring boys were the 13-year-old boys who wanted to be adopted. And when I asked them, what are your goals for your life? I want to get adopted. And so, because I was a researcher, I wasn't doing any intervention, right? But if I was working with those boys, I would help to reshape their goals around things that they have power over. So it sounds like relationships are really important to you. I want to help you re-goal. So let's say,

say that your goal is to identify one safe adult in your life that you feel safe with. And then I would start to connect that young person with mentors. I would ask them what teachers you have, what coaches you have, because that's something that they can't control, right? They can control how they engage with the adults in their life who are showing up that want to be there, but they cannot control if they get adopted or not. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, Alex, finally, after a year of people begging, has gotten off his rear end, and we now have our merchandise store is alive. All you got to do is you go to normalfokes.us and click merch, and you'll see all kinds of cool

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The buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place. Soccer, football, at home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari,

and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game.

The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people.

Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keith Giamanka seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad,

but secretly, he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like. No, I didn't want to manifest that.

I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue.

Listen to deep cover, The Family Man, on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mainstream media is full of crude depictions of The Un-Housed, stories that shame and blame and paint the Un-House as a monolith. We The In-House is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created a space where the Un-House and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, the LGBTQTIA plus community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. Woody Enhous is a two-time webby and signal award-winning show with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Jill Whitcher, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and.

and in her community. Listen to Wey and Howes on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A word that keeps popping in my head when I'm listening to you as agency. Yeah. It feels like if you have any sense of agency or belonging, that offers some level of hope. And if you don't have agency and feel part of a normalized,

civilization or culture, it diminishes hope? Is that? Yeah, absolutely. I always say that I think that hope is also this beautiful blend between agency or sometimes I even say power and belonging. If we can bring young people and families and communities into this space where we know that we have power over our futures, like we're not victims to the things that are happening to us.

There's lots that are outside of our control, but there are a lot of things. things that we actually have power over. And we always stay at Whole Five to five, if we don't give people power, they have it, we try to help them tap into the power that they already have. You can help someone feel encouraged and engage them in ways that they see, I have power over my life, regardless of all these other things that happen. And then you put them in nurturing environments where they have a sense of belonging. That's the perfect recipe for increasing hope. makes perfect sense. A 13-year-old child who is dying to get adopted,

whose hope is diminishing because they don't have power over that, all the grit in the world didn't get them adopted. That's the point. Yeah. You can't work yourself into permanent relationships. So when we look at a 19-year-old who's aged out of foster care and is unhoused or maybe has, or is toying with substance abuse problems or doesn't have a job or whatever,

whatever, that was once only six years earlier, this 13-year-old kid looking for adoption and has very little hope and doesn't get adopted. And it ends up aging out of foster care. And then we look at them and think, you've got a free education in the United States. You've got the freest country in the world. You've got the freedom to assemble, the freedom to speak, the freedom to work, the freedom to do all this. All you got to do is pull yourself up by your bootstraps, have a little grit and get

with it. what the hell was wrong with you, kid? Yep. And then all of a sudden, society turns against that person because they're making our culture horrible. Yeah. Why don't they just have the grit to do something about it? What you're saying is they lost hope six years ago.

Yeah, yeah. And they're paralyzed by that. And society has all the empathy and compassion for the 13-year-old. But then our perspective changes once that 13-year-old, all of their needs are not met, right? And then they turn 19. Now of a sudden that's an adult who needs to get it together and be a contributing member of society, get a job, pay their taxes, like all of that. But it's like we didn't give that kid what they needed when they were 13.

Or eight. Or eight, right? Or whatever. Right, right. So, I mean, I think that that's one of the things that led me to the type of work. You know, I told you, I grew up third-generation foster parent. And once I had my first real job out of college, I worked at a shelter in Oklahoma. And it was the first time that I seen kids waiting for a foster home.

Like, I had only seen the child welfare system in one light, and that was just we were bringing them into our homes. But I was not exposed to the fact that you have kids who are growing up in shelters and group homes. They have to ask to open the refrigerator. Someone else is doing their laundry. And then they turn 19 and it's like, all right. I've watched kids not know how to load a dishwasher. I've watched them not know how to separate their clothes. We've had a lot of folks on the show that I've learned from.

A lot I've learned from. Hosting this podcast has actually been one of the greatest educators of my life. One of the other things I've learned about, what I think I've learned about hope is access, access offers hope, and a lack of access diminishes hope. Did you find that as well in your research? No, and I think that that's because I didn't have too many questions around access. We were really focusing on the questions that were on the hope score or the hope scale

and then getting a better understanding. We found that the higher hope scoring boys were able to name an adult in their life, right? So a lot of it, at least one, right? But then the question will beg, well, what did that one adult do? Did they provide access? Right? Because when I think of my high school coach for track, he granted me access to the world of universities. He was the one who called University of Alabama.

He was the one that called Orr Roberts University and said, hey, I want you guys to come to Denver and watch this girl run. So that relationship provided access, right? Would you? Really? Yes. I've never understood hardlars. I mean, it's hard enough to run fast. Then you jump every 50 yards, breaking your stride. I know.

I love it. You were a hurdler. I was a hurdler. Did you go to O'R Roberts to run track? I did. I went to University of Alabama for a year and then transferred over to O'Roberts. I'll be dead gone. That's way off the subject.

I'm a meathead and I love sports. So, yeah, I had to follow that one. Okay. So you get all of the. this construct now from your doctorate and go back to you said you decided to dedicate your life to this. What does that look like? Yeah.

So that looked like me starting Hope 585. Maybe just to make sure, have we fully like to find like the formula for the science of hope? I don't think we have. Why do we do that first before we progress? Yeah. So hope is agency thinking, right, which is if I set a goal, I believe that I have the skills, the resources to apply to getting me towards that goal. We also sometimes call it willpower, plus pathway thinking, which is if I have a goal,

do I know the paths that I need to take to get me there? So that's essentially point A to point B thinking. When you can increase an individual's agency and their pathway at the same time, you're increasing their hope. Say that again. I'm consuming, as you're saying, and I'm not the brightest person. So say it again when you... Yeah, so when you can increase an individual's agency thinking plus pathway thinking,

you're increasing their hope. So their belonging with a way to get there increases hope. So I have a goal. I believe that I have the resources and the skills to get me to that goal, and I can tell you I have a plan. The plan, right? Well, that seems, I know,

that seems obvious. It's simple. We actually, I actually say, when I'm doing presentations, I have a slide that says the simplicity of hope. Goal setting, plus agency thinking, plus pathway thinking.

If we sit with young people and we sit with families and we get to the core of their goals, what do you desire in your life? And then we say, well, how do you get there and let's help you get there? That's interesting because another thing we've discovered is how ineffective telling people in bad positions what they need to do is.

If you just shut up and ask them what they want to do, you can be a lot more effective. And that's also some of what you're saying here. Yeah. Yeah. And identify the barriers. It's funny. You just laughed at what I just said. Like another, duh, obvious. No, I think it's just the, I laugh a lot in this space because it's like, We know what people need. We've overcomplicated this. Every single person has a desire to accomplish something.

We wake up in the morning and we're pursuing something. Do you get how hard it is to reconcile that? And here's what I mean. There's people listening to us right now who get their entire worldview from CNN or Fox. They sit on their couch. They go through life. They're not bad, evil people. Right.

They're doing the best they can in their lives. And then they get their worldview from CNN, Fox, social media, and whatever their favorite politician says. And they see crime. They see drug use. They see young people on the streets. They see homeless, right? And how they consume those images against the backdrop of the narratives they are fed makes the most disadvantaged among us oftentimes villains.

Yeah. But I get that, honestly. All right. So I can see why people miss the obvious. Can you? Yeah. I've missed the obvious. Third generation foster parent.

I thought all of these kids in foster care were horribly abused, bad parents. Until I sat in a courtroom one day with a girl who aged out of foster care. that I loved who was losing her rights to her children. Whoa, whoa, whoa. How old was she? She was the 19. 22 by this time. Okay.

Losing the rights to her two kids. And I realized this is a cycle. Mm-hmm. So what I think happens is that when people have or are not close to the issue, right? When there's a lack of proximity, then it's so easy to fill in a life. people. Like, I truly believe that there's not a single person on this earth, that if we sit and we listen to their story, that we cannot find compassion for. I agree. If you look at that adult that I just characterized, that is, I mean, movies, music, news, social media,

it paints a picture, right? And what you said that made me go to the this way was you've never run across somebody who every human being wants to have hope, I think is what you said. Absolutely. All right. It is so hard to balance that that eight or 13-year-old person that you're characterizing as every human being wants hope, wants to have an option with the 22, 23, 24-year-old version of that, who already committed six crimes and who we think is a drag on our society. was once one of these human beings that you say, you've never met one that didn't just want to have some hope.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that it's just, it's hard to balance. It is, and it's a balancing act, right? It's, okay, once you become that 26-year-old that is committing crimes, there has to be accountability. But how do we do that in a way that's restorative? And that acknowledges the fact that that 26-year-old was failed. They were failed by systems. They did not just grow up. just wanting to live that life. They were failed. Not just by systems, but by family as well. Yeah, by systems, their family and community, right?

Yes. Because, I mean, I can think, I mean, my grandmother, before she knew that there was a formalized child welfare system, she was bringing kids to her home, cooking for them, their moms, feeding them, letting them. So we don't always need systems. We need community-centered approaches to restoring dignity. to taking care of children and families that are in our communities that need help,

and to do it in a way that doesn't penalize them for the struggles that they have. I have never met a person that did not want to accomplish something, that did not have goals. I've met people who started to lose hope and moved into apathy because they feel like their goals and the things that matter to them, their dreams are not attainable. But I've never met someone who just doesn't have anything, that doesn't want anything.

I've met people who act like they didn't know because there were so many people who spoke contrary to their true identities. And they started to believe those lies. We'll be right back. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. I-R. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must-have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists. Like back in the day pride.

Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone. Or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. I love the sounds, the buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer, football, at home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom.

I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game.

The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby.

Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer. And that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad. But secretly, he became someone else. a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success.

Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever, because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mainstream media is full of cruel depiction

of the unhoused, stories that shame and blame and paint the unhoused as a monolith. We The InHouse is the podcast that's changing that. I'm Theo Henderson, creator and host, and for years I've created a space where the unhoused and their advocates can tell their own stories. In the last few months alone, I've interviewed Unhoused parents, immigrants, mutual aid organizers, veterans, the LGBTQTIA plus community, and the policymakers who make the laws that impact the unhoused existence. Whedian Houses a two-time Webby and Signal Award-winning show

with many exciting guests on the horizon. Tune in this week for my interview with Dr. Jill Wichler, a street doctor turned influencer whose work with the unhoused community has made a huge impact online and in her community. Listen to Weythian Housed on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, so the first thing is,

Agency willpower, the obvious. What was the second thing you were saying about? Pathway thinking. Pathway thinking. Pathway thinking, yeah. So build simple formula. Goals plus agency plus pathways equals hope. Yep.

I set a goal. Apply the agency. Apply the pathway. All right. And so you decided to test that in Tulsa, basically, or start something to work that in Tulsa originally? Yeah. Yeah.

Our entire organization, that is the single best, because the data tells us that hope is the single best predictor of well-being. Hope is the single best predictor of well-being. Yep. Yep. Not grit, not resilience, not confidence. Hope. All right.

Okay, I get it, right? And by the way, I love it. It makes so much sense. And as you're talking, I'm thinking about all the different things I've worked with and football and kids and stuff. and then my own children. And the comparison of the kids who have had difficulty in art is true. Just if you're hopeless, grit doesn't mean anything.

So a lot of people talk about giving kids hope. And you've built an entire system around it in Rochester. How then does your system. give hope. Yeah, yeah. So one of the things that we say at Whole 585 is that... What's it, 585? That's our area code.

Oh. There's a lot of Memphis 901. I guess I should have known. Got it. Okay. All right. That relationships heal people, not systems. Relationships?

Heal people, not systems. Agreed completely. Yeah. So at Whole 585, we have programs, we have services, and the outcome that we are striving for when everything that we do is increased and sustained hope. So I'll give an example of that. We have a home for young ladies preparing to age out of the foster system.

We measure hope. We also measure belonging. And we goal set. Belonging. How do you measure belonging? That's a shame that you measure it. Yeah, we actually use what's called the Minnesota Belonging Scale. There's such a thing.

Yeah. Yeah. And it asks questions that get to if young people feel like they belong in their schools, in their homes, and in their communities. Because you can feel like you belong at school, but not in your home, right? You need to belong in all three? You don't. You don't.

If you look at, I'm sure you've heard of ACEs, adverse childhood experiences, there's now positive childhood experiences. And it's getting to young people feeling like they belong in one or two of those places, right? So we want for young people to feel like they belong in many places. but if they feel like they belong at home or in their school or they have at least one trusted adult in their life that they feel like they can talk to when things get hard, those are positive childhood experiences. Safety.

Safety, right? And those help to combat the adverse childhood experiences. So at Hope, we measure hope and we measure belonging and we have a curriculum. It's called the Hope Rising curriculum that walks young people through eight essential life skills. but everything that we do, we're really trying to help create spaces where young people and families feel like they belong and help them access their power. And your power is really accessed when you can set a goal and you start to achieve those goals, no matter how small they are, no matter how small the goal is. So is that what you do? You sit down with them and say, what are your goals?

And then let's help you just start little by little achieving them. Yep, yep. And obviously it depends on what program, how in-depth we can go, right? Like we have a crisis counseling program. And so when law enforcement is called out, usually there's a social worker that goes out with them. And if there's a young person that's impacted by that crisis, they send them to us for six months of counseling. Six months. Yeah, we can do six months of counseling.

What we found in counseling young people was that it was really hard to stabilize them because a lot of times the issues were also challenging. that they were having relationally with their parents, right? And so you might have a young person that has a goal and mom and dad because of their behavior or just their, it's not even behavior like it's a negative thing, but families were not realizing that they had competing goals. And it was creating tension within the homes. So now we work with families.

We're doing like case management with the parents, counseling with a young person. And we're recently started to do restorative circles with families because it's really powerful when you can get a single mom and a son who there was a crisis because they're blood and heads. A son's not going to school, gang violence, he's coming home, he's yelling at mom, mom's took his phone, now he's cussing at her. And it's like, okay, this is very unhealthy. You sit them down and you allow for mom to share what's important to her, to her child, and vice versa. And a lot of times you see that they both have goals. They're competing. right, mom has laid her own dreams down.

Her children don't even know about. I want to go back to school, but because I have to keep leaving work to deal with you getting suspended. I can't save up to go back to school to pay off this debt. And it allows a space

where there just to be, not to say that children need to be responsible for their parents, but it allows a space where there's understanding within the family dynamic and helping for the family to see, like, we're on the same team here, right? Like how, because as a mom myself,

I think it's so important for parents. I think it's important for their children to see that, like, mom's human too, and she has some goals. And when your behavior is disruptive, that impacts what mom can do for you as well. Does, I assume then you enter,

with, I mean, it's amazing to me that I'm saying this, because I still think of a 14 or 15 year old as just a pop, just a kid. But some 14 and 15 year old kids in our society can be pretty hard. Yeah. And can already have been involved in a whole lot of us. Have you seen where you get involved with 14, 50 year-old, knuckle-headed, hardened young guy? young guys and when you actually have these conversations with their moms, do you see that shell start breaking away? Absolutely. Absolutely.

We had a young man that came in. He's 13. 13. 13, yeah. And having some issues at school, when we're sitting there talking to mom, we found out mom was just diagnosed with diabetes and just super overwhelmed with what that diagnosis means as well as now still trying to navigate her son's negative behavior. That was an opportunity for us to sit and say,

there's a lot happening in this house, right? Young man's like, Mom, I didn't know that, what does that mean? Right? And now we're sitting here and we're talking about the changes that are going to happen because of mom's new diagnosis. And now the young man is like, we've been able to see those. I mean, we've had a young man come in and wasn't attending school, consistently suspended.

after six months of working with him, we're looking at a completely different kid. It was actually nominated class president. Are you kidding? Right? And so, like, we see those situations. And it all boils down to helping, first, finding out what their goals are,

and then helping them establish pathways to achieve those goals, which, in effect, produces hope. Yeah. And then, let's talk to your mom about your goals. Hmm. Because there's the adult in your life that can make you feel safe and help you. Yeah.

And then let's talk to mom about her responsibility, right? Without the child, right? But now, Mom, what are you going to do to help your child get there? Because more than likely that mom experienced the same thing when she was a kid that the son is experiencing, so she didn't even have the skill set to be that person. Mom is overwhelmed, right? Like we see it all the time. Mom is like, I work 60 hours a week.

I'm doing everything that I can. I mean, we've had to have conversations with mom's just about like, hey, I mean, the way that you talk to him, he feels this way. Can we work together to figure out another way to communicate your frustrations? How do you do that without becoming off paternalizing? Work with the parent. It's got to be a thing, right? Yeah, create environments where they get to talk to each other. I'm not talking on behalf of your child, right?

And so it's creating spaces where families can sit and start the healing process together. There have been some things that have happened here. It sounds like everyone here has a lot going on. And we just want to create a space where people can be honest. Set some ground rules, right? How young of a kid? So with our program, we can actually start as young as four. Four?

Yeah. There's four-year-olds that are dealing with this kind of stuff? So we can, we can start at four, majority of our young people are aiding up that are in the crisis program. But still, eight or nine years old. Yeah, but you have to understand the kids that are coming to us

through the crisis program, it's not always familiar challenges, right? Like, we get calls because, I mean, we've had it. Father was murdered. Mm-hmm. Right. I was actually going to ask about that.

Yeah, yeah, gang violence. We've had 14-year-olds who lost their best friend to gun violence. So it's not always the family piece, but it's nice to be able still to support parents who are like, I am so sad that my kid is going through this. And I don't even know what to say or how to help them. So it's just like, well, we're here to partner with you as you guys are kind of navigating this crisis together. So I don't want to send the impression that all the calls that we get is because mom doesn't know how to talk to son, mom and dad.

I mean, you know, it's a little bit of everything. We've had young people call in or parents call in because it. a young person is, is, you know, contemplating suicidal, you know, having suicidal ideations. So there are calls that we get in and we take them for counseling. There are calls that we get in and we're like, that's a little bit above our level of care. This young person needs, like, intensive therapy, right? But most of it, it's relational conflict. Bullying, we get a lot for that.

Social media. I asked our counselors recently, I said, what do you see as the highest? Oh, I asked him, what is the, highest threat? What is the biggest threat against our young people today? They said social media. They said more than family conflict, more than anything, it's social media. Bullying on social media? Bullying. It's the pressure. It's the horrible things that people say. It's the videos that they pass. I know I'm old, but this is one we really haven't touched on that I can remember in the three years of doing the show. One was, so Erin's Stacy Horst. Her daughter, Erin was

bullied, and so she had autism. These other kids said you should go kill yourself. And then even just things like seeing other kids out with friends on a Friday night, too, and it's like nobody invited me. I mean, just all these dynamics. Is that what that looks like? It's all of it. Yeah.

It's young people. I mean, it's the smallest things. You post a picture, and now you got people who are, I mean, I've seen things go viral. And I'm like, that's mean. That's somebody's kid. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Dr. Ashley Cross, and you don't want to miss part two. It's now available to listen to.

Together, guys, we can change this country. But it starts with you. I'll see in part two. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for. Why do I watch the walk up? That's like asking me, why do I breed? And it's beautiful.

The guys are young and cute. and fit. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots.

Listen to American Football on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential, and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your day. journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy,

tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Listen to Joy 101 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by CVS. This Black Music Month, The Questlove Show celebrates the visionaries, shaping culture through sound from country trailblazer Mickey Guyton to hip hop icon Fafi Freddie, the sonic genius of Thundercat and the revolutionary voice

of Chuck Dean. I want it loud. Look, look, look, so the timing might be off, the sound might be muffled, but what's going to come out of there is something that you can feel. Celebrate Black Music Month with special episodes of the Questlove show. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, this is Chuck from Stuff You Should Know, and we're submitting our most science-y episodes for your peer review with our new stuff you should know doing science playlist. Out now. You want to know about Occam's Razor? Simplest explanation is usually the right one? We got you covered.

Wondered what chaos theory is ever since the first time you saw Jurassic Park. Well, come on down. So distill a nice pot of tea, everybody. Turn down the gas on your Bunsen burner and slip into your most comfortable lab coat and listen to the stuff you should know doing science playlist on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority of Black City, in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.