An Army of Normal Folks - The Rising Violence and Assassination Culture

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

For Shop Talk, we reflect on the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the disturbing share of Americans who think such actions are justified, and what An Army of Normal Folks can do about it. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney. Welcome to Shop Top. What's up, Alex? Welcome in. You got a big W this weekend. You're rubble. We did. We, oh, you're timestamping us, or is that okay?

Well, it's actually going to air this Friday, so it'll be okay. A little bit better. All right, well, yeah, we beat LSU. Yeah. Beat the Bengals, send them back to Baton Rouge where they belong. Actually, one thing I heard about this weekend, I guess, often like a victory like that if you beat a number 14 the students rush the field yeah well we didn't i don't yeah you know why because we get a massive fine i read no it's not it's not

lane kiff and asked him not the rush the field no why because we expect to win now it's no big deal but i was curious about it is you know if you it's almost insulting i get it to the number 14 in the country that everybody's like okay yeah we beat them but we're not going to rush the field and jank down the goalpost for ls you i mean we're supposed to beat them now It's kind of like players who celebrate in the end zone, it's like you're supposed to score. Yeah, I mean, just hand the ball of referee and run off. You're supposed to score. You'll be back in next series.

Do you know how much the fine is, though? I was curious. A half million. Really? It's $500,000 now if you rush the field anymore. And so, but the point is, it's not really the money. It's that that place was packed and rocking. And by the way, a B-2 bomber flew over.

Oh, that's cool. You couldn't hear it. it was so cool. You know how usually we have a flyover. It's loud. Everybody goes crazy. This thing was almost melodramatic because as cool as it was when it flew over at the International Anthem, you couldn't hear it.

And I guess that's the point. It's a B-2 bomber, stealth bomber. You're not supposed to be able to hear it. But this massive thing flew over our stadium. And it was like, you didn't hear it. It was so weird looking. But it was cool. And then we proceeded to beat LSU's,

like we're supposed to, and then we left and went back to our cars, no reason to Rustfield, because, you know, it's just LSU. Actually, I don't think we've talked about it since that last shop talk with Max that you also beat Max of school. Just update listeners on that, too. That, that, it would have been more appropriate to Rushfield and yank down the goalpost after that win than it was after all this, beat LSU.

That was a big deal. We beat them 18 to 7. Anytime some inner city kids can beat some wealthy white kids, I'm all for it. Me too. I mean, listen, it was a turning point for my team because it was when they woke up to the realization that they can play with anybody. And I think that translates to many things

well after the day's playing football. So very, very proud of that win. And I enjoyed Max having to go through Thanksgiving and Christmas understanding that his dad owns him. I own him. Free rent, free rent for an entire year right there. So, okay, guys, shop talk number 72. It's not as fun of a topic as we've been having it.

No, we're gonna switch emotional gears quickly from football and fun to something that's really topical. And Alex did his typical really deep and good production work. It's not that deep. I wish I had more time because there's so much better. There's even more stats out there than we're about to get into. Well, this is pretty good. We're going to talk about violence and assassination culture, which I can't even believe is actually a phrase,

that there's an assassination culture. I don't even think 10 years ago that would have been a thing, but it has become a thing. And so this is coming out Friday. We can also, you know, not only be reminded of the Charlie Kirk thing, But even this past Sunday, some dude ran a truck into a Mormon church and set it on fire and shot a bunch of people. It's happening all too often, and I think we all know it's happening all too often. But some of the data behind it is even, I'm not going to say, more disturbing than the act itself, because nothing is more disturbing than the acts itself, but it's almost as disturbing.

I mean, I think you could say it is more disturbing. concerning because this isn't just someone crazy person like these no it's a thing now yeah and we we need to talk about it um we need to talk with our children about it so um after this brief messages from our generous sponsors we're going to talk about violence and assassination culture and some of the data behind it on shop talk number 72 we'll be right back In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com.

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Thank you, I know for Lanovo Lanovo Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the stuff you should know

podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we

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There's a shootout in broad daylight. People using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards.

So check out the stuff you should know true crime playlist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now. We're getting a little bit older, and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing. Bloomberg and IHeart Podcasts present. IVF disrupted, the kind body story. A podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care.

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This season on Sacred Scandal Hear the full story from the woman who lived it Witness the journey from devout follower To determine survivor As Elena exposes the man behind the cloth And the system that protected him Even the darkest secrets eventually find their way to the light.

Listen to Secrets Scandal, the mini secrets of Marcial Massiel, as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everybody. Welcome to shop. Pretty deep content here, but I think it's... I think it would be wrong not to talk about it. It's topical, and it speaks to an army of normal folks, grandly.

And this is shop talk. That's what people sit around the coffee maker talking about. And I don't think I've spent a day at work that somebody hasn't talked about this topic in some way. so violence and assassination culture which is disturbing that it's that's even a title today but it is um Alex got us this information a recent fire survey what's fire an acronym for fire is the foundation for original individual rights and education though I think they've rebranded it now so they're the leading free speech group in the country you were actually on their podcast like two years ago Perfect. I remember it. Well, maybe not.

They're actually awesome, and you'd love them. So it's kind of the real replacement of the ACLU, like the ACL. Oh, listen, no. Now that you said it, I do love them because they're not right, left, center, whatever. They're standing for free speech that is unencumbered. It's actually cool. they're two founders, one's from the left and one's from the right. But even more impressive is their staff is pretty much evenly split. So that's really hard to do if you have like a, you know, a 50 or 100 person company that's a little bit ideological.

I mean, yeah, but if her culture is about civility and respecting what one another says, I mean, yeah, let's just go to it. So a recent fire survey from these folks were talking about 2025, so it's very recent. They surveyed 68,510 college students across 257 U.S. universities. So this isn't like they called 20 people and came up with this thing. This is a real study. Found that 34% of college students say that using violence to stop someone from speaking on campus is acceptable at least sometimes. Rare cases are more. A third of our young adults that are in college,

these are the ones that are supposed to be the smartest, most free-thinking human beings, say that using violence to stop someone from speaking is acceptable in some occasions. And that's up from 32% the prior year. and 32% is already ridiculous. One of the most disturbing findings from the Buckley Institute's 2025 National College Student Survey is this.

39% two, that's two out of five, 39% of students agree with this statement. If someone is using hate speech or making racially charged comments, physical violence can be justified to prevent this person from espousing their hateful views. Do not misunderstand me that I think using hate speech or racially charged comments is okay. I do not. But I also believe that using physical violence to prevent a person from respousing their hateful views, I think that's more wrong than the hate speech itself, and I'll tell you one in a minute. Along with this is a graph that I wish I could share with you visually, but I'll try to do my best to illustrate it for you verbally. The first figure

is percent of respondents overall and those that self-identifies left and right of center who find murder of the respective individuals justified. Murder. At least, I think the phrase is at least partially justified. Okay, partially justified. The bar graphs here show the percentage of people in each group, selecting scores from two to seven on the scales assessing support for murder of Musk and Trump. Scores of one were excluded because such scores meant that the respondent can say,

considered the respective form of political violence was not justified at all. All respondents that said murder was okay, 31.1.1%. A third. So it's adults, too, not just the college kids. A third of all college students say it's adults now. Okay. A third of all people. I'm saying I make it to do it or worse. You can't just dismiss it as some dumb college kids. That's true. A adults. A third. said that it would be okay to murder Elon Musk because of what he says. The people right of center were 14.3% and the people left were 50. With regard to murder of Donald Trump, 38.5% said it would be okay.

56% on the left and 20% on the right. We should say, too, this is from Rutgers University. I don't care. I'm just letting the listeners know. We're not making up these numbers. Destroying a Tesla dealership in protest, 40% of our respondents said, yeah, there's no problem with that. 60% of the people left of center said it's okay to destroy a man's business if you don't agree with what he has to say. 23% right of center said it's okay.

Okay. So, why are we bringing this up? First, it is not to vilify anybody left of center, right or center. These are just numbers. Don't shoot the messenger. It's just the facts. And all the numbers are unacceptable. None of them are acceptable. And here's the thing, these are self-identifying people. So someone is saying, yes, I'm right of center. Yes, I'm left of center. Yes, murder's okay to shut somebody up. I don't agree with. I grew up believing in the phrase, the very, very uniquely American phrase that says, I made a test and a bore and patently disagree with everything that comes out of your mouth, but I will defend with my life your right to say it.

how have we gone in three or four decades from that to this i want to remind you of a time that that john mccain and president obama were running for the presidency and at a uh what do they call those things where a candidate meets with a big old open group of people and takes a town hall yeah it was town hall john mccain was having a town hall meeting and i remember it's like as yesterday you should look up the video a woman said something about obama being a Muslim Obama not even being American Obama being anti-American and just just went off on them And McCain, Obama's opponent in the president's election, stop the woman dead in his tracks and said, stop it.

I don't agree with a lot of Obama's policies. Obviously, I'm running against him for president because I don't believe he's what's best for our country. But he is a good man, and he is an American. And I don't want to get involved in trafficking mistruths about this man. we're running on the issues and we're running on belief sets we're not running against this human being we've gone from leadership like that jama kane lost the election as we all know but we went from leadership like that who refused to allow people to get all exercised and bent up on language

to now, in some cases, 60% of respondents believe that it's okay to murder Donald Trump if you don't like what comes out of his mouth. We're losing our civility. We are losing our understanding of free speech. We are losing our basic civic understanding about what makes the American society, unique and special. And if we don't correct this, I believe this is a greater threat

to our freedom and our democracy than China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and every other dictator in the world combined. This is a greater attack on us than even a nuclear warhead, in my opinion, because we are going to destroy ourselves from the inside out if we start allowing people to believe that violence, assassination, and murder

of someone I don't agree with is acceptable. We'll be right back. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. So you can push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors.

For the next era of gaming, upgrade to smooth, high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E, and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Hi there. This is Josh Clark from the Stuffy Should Know Podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you. Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways,

disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now. We're getting a little bit older, and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing. Bloomberg and IHeard podcast present. IVF disrupted, the Kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. Introducing Kind Body, a new generation of women's health and fertility care.

Backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like with the right people in the right hands, and then to find out again that you're just not. Don't be fooled. By what? All the bright and shiny. Listen to IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, starting September 19 on the IHeart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names. A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open-heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers,

you will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts Sponsored by Jasper AI Built for Marketers At 19 Elena Sada believed she had found her calling In the new season of sacred scandal

We pulled back the curtain on a life built on devotion and deception A man of God, Marcial Masciel looked Elena in the eye and promised her a life of purpose within the Legion of Christ My name is Elena Sada and this is my story. It's a story of how I learned to hide, to cry, to survive, and eventually, how I got out.

This season on Sacred Scandal hear the full story from the woman who lived it. Witness the journey from devout follower to determine survivor as Elena exposes the man behind the cloth and the system that protected him. Even the darkest secrets eventually find their way to the lights. Listen to Sacred Scandal, the mini secrets of Marcial Mastien, as part of the MyCultura Podcast Network on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Um, this is medieval stuff here, y'all. As Lincoln said, a house divided amongst itself cannot stand. House divided amongst itself cannot stand.

It's actually from the Bible, but... So, my question is, those. listening to me, whether you're right of center or left or center, what do you really think? What do you really think? I remember social, listen, Charlie Kirk, I mean, we might as well talk about Charlie Kirk a little bit. Charlie Kirk, there's absolutely no arguing his effect. I would even say that maybe Trump doesn't get elected without Charlie Kirk, but certainly Charlie Kirk was a big part of it.

It was one of the greatest swings of young voters from left to right in known or recorded history, and Charlie Kirk was on the front lines of that. But the fact that 30% of people in our country say, Yeah, it's okay to assassinate somebody like that that I don't agree with because what he says is just so off-putting to me, I would just rather him be dead than to have to listen to it. Really? And then the mountain of social media posts that followed directly

that actually celebrated his assassination in front of his children, And if anybody watched the video of that grotesque, horrific thing that happened, and then remembered that his wife watched it, all because they disagreed with what he had to say, and that 30% of people that respond to these surveys say, yeah violence and assassination it's okay if I don't agree with what you say y'all we're losing our republic um this has to stop so how do you stop it well my answer of course is probably going to be redundant to some of you regular listeners and hopefully there's some new listeners but I genuinely believe that when you engage in your community and you get out of your vacuum

and you get out of your comfort zone and you serve and lead people that don't look like you, vote like you, worship like you, love like you, espouse the same notions as you, but you're just on a very human level, serve and lead and work together to better whatever little corner of your community and universe that you can do good work in, that that work and that involvement in basic humanity starts to break down misunderstandings about one another and barriers and makes you more tolerant of one another, makes you more understanding of one another, and makes you find out that just because someone doesn't vote like me or look like me or love like me,

They don't have to be my enemy, and certainly, just because they espoused different notions than me, you know, violence and assassination against people that don't agree with me just because they don't agree with me. The other thing is, especially as it pertains to college students, when I interviewed Sparky, he said something that is really, really true. And he kind of called young people to find their truth. And another way to say that is, and I don't mean it in a political way. But liberal thought is healthy thought. And what I mean by that is by being liberal, I don't mean that politically. I simply mean open-minded by being. liberal in terms of the way you listen, by being liberal in terms of the way you approach other people

and actually listen and consider other people's perspectives. While you still may not agree, you are almost always going to be able to at least understand where they come from and why they think the way they do and see their humanity. That's not, nothing is 100%. And there are a small percentage of people on both sides of any issue that I think are zealots and ridiculous. But it's a really, really small percentage. There's a far, far, far majority of people, regardless of what side of an issue they fall on are typically reasonable thinking people who just have different perspectives. but does that different perspective somehow retarded are believing that because of their

difference in perspective that it's okay to target them for murder or violence or assassination? I just don't think that, I don't think you arrive at such a conclusion if you actually understand that people with those thought processes and you see them as human and you understand their perspective. And I don't think you can do that unless you have a liberal approach to people who aren't like you and you seek to serve, lead, and understand them. And if you do that, you can create an army of normal folks that despite the way you love, look, believe, worship, you can find common ground.

And you can break down this disgusting notion that if I don't think like you, now it is okay to cause you harm. Our country cannot survive it. And we've got to stop it. And what's scary is, it's not just happening every once while it's happening all the time. And the reason it's happening all the time is because of this data that a third, of the people in our country believe it's okay it's not what you got alex uh i'll just add one thing so i went to uva and uh they often have jefferson quotes above the buildings that are great and so one of them on this topic is for here we are not afraid to follow truth

wherever it may lead nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it so we're not afraid to follow truth and we're not afraid to let error be out there as long as we're free to let reason combat it

we shouldn't be afraid of opposing views and we need to be open-minded enough to reason in fact that if our view is wrong to change it rather than double down just because that's what someone in new york on tv told us we're supposed to believe actually uh i'm hesitant to bring this up but um an example of this too is no matter what you personally

think about the topic of gay marriage like president obama and president biden were against it even in the like the late 2000s they were and then they flipped you know i mean but it's uh well it's like imagine if they were canceled back then right like people change their minds over time don't say they flipped i think they evolved yeah that's i didn't mean it in a negative way. No, no, I know. I'm just, I want to make sure I know that I know how you meant it. That's why I'm saying it. But they evolved. Yeah. They, they changed because they listened to a different perspective and said, I think it's okay. But previously, like, people would have called their position hate speech, right? So that's the danger of calling all these

things hate speech, too, is such a good point. People have firmly held beliefs, you know, whether you think it's right or wrong, but it doesn't mean, you know, it's hateful speech. It doesn't mean a stateful speech. And somehow we're growing desensitized to this violence because it's happening so much. We're not talking about schizophrenic people at school shootings anymore. We're talking about people who the data says believe, a third of us believe, it is just okay to kill people who I don't agree with. That's not a schizophrenic. That's not a crazy person.

shooting up a school, which is a whole other problem. This is people literally saying culturally shutting you up with a bullet is just fine if I don't like what you have to say. That is sick. And it is it is it is a social cultural sickness cancer that if we don't reverse soon honestly believe can kill our republic and it scares me so join an army of normal folks me people who aren't like you is actually one of our guests said that i don't think your episode will be out by then but she said people are are hard to hate close up that's a really good point they really are they are hard to hate close up um and our leaders need to chill on the rhetoric quit the media and our political leaders and even some of our business leaders have got to

chill out on the rhetoric and and quit seeking to enrich their themselves and garner more power by dividing us and candidly we got to quit being sheep and following them around and buying into their rhetoric that is perturbing our minds and the minds of our children. It's got to stop. So a sobering shop talk, number 72, we have a pervasive and growing sentiment in our country that murder, violence, and assassination against people we don't believe in or we don't like what they have to say is okay. and every single one of us have got to make a stand on this and say no it's not and start talking about it

it's it's kind of like in a family when somebody's done something bad or wrong or whatever and kind of the family just brushes it under the rug and hush hush let's not talk about it problem never goes away it festers this is an uncomfortable truth about our society that people really don't want to talk about, but we better. Because if we don't start talking about it with our kids and we don't start talking about how wrong this is and we sweep it on the rug, these numbers will go from 32 to 34 to 50 percent to, I mean, it's already 56 percent of the people left of center say that murder of Donald Trump in some cases could be justified because of what he has to say. It's just wrong. We can't do that.

We just got to stop it. And the only way we're going to stop it is we're going to have to talk about it. We're going to have to get out of our comfort zones and our vacuums of thought, surround ourselves with people who are different than us, see them as human, respect differences of opinion. And because, like our guest said, it's hard to hate people up close. But if we keep separating to our corners and see, believe, leaving all this vitriol and all this rhetoric, I fear what's going to happen.

So shop talk number 72, guys, we got to break this culture, this violent acceptance culture, and we've got to do it with our children and our grandchildren and fix what over the last 15, 20 years we've ushered in as culturally acceptable because it's disgusting and it's not. Any last word, Alex? Nope, we got to wrap it up. If you avoid this shop talk, please share it with friends on social. If you like the show, what do you do? You subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it, sign up to join the Army of normalfolks. That's it.

Email shop talk ideas. Yeah, and guest ideas for an Army normal folks. And I hope you will think long and hard about the content of this particular shop talk. We have a beast on our doorsteps, and we've got to slay it. Okay, shop talk number 72. Guys, we'll see you next week. In the heat. squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every

match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. So you can push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Hi there, this is Josh Clark from the Stuff You Should Know podcast. If you've been thinking, man alive, I could go for some good true crime podcast episodes, then have we got good news for you.

Stuff You Should Know just released a playlist of 12 of our best true crime episodes of all time. There's a shootout in broad daylight, people using axes in really terrible ways, disappearances, legendary heists, the whole nine yards. So check out the Stuff You Should Know true crime playlist. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. People called them murderers. Ten years later, they were gods. Today, no one knows their names.

A group of maverick surgeons who took on the medical establishment who risked everything to invent open-heart surgery. Welcome to the Wild West of American Medicine. I'm Chris Pine, and this is Cardiac Cowboys. If you like medical dramas, if you like heart-pounding thrillers, You will love Cardiac Cowboys. Listen on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Sponsored by Jasper, AI Build for marketers.

Introducing IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story. A podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally, like, in the right hand. You're just not. Listen to IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sacred Scandal is back, the hit True Crime podcast that uncovers hidden truths and shattered faith.

For 19 years, Elena Sada was a nun for the Legion of Christ. This season, she's telling her story. When I first joined the Legion of Christ, I felt chosen. I was 19 years old when Marcia and Masset, the leader of God. of the legionaries, look me in the eye and told me I had a calling. Surviving meant hiding. Escaping took courage, risking everything to tell her truth. Listen to sacred scandal, the many secrets of Marciol-Massielle on the I-Hart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast.