An Army of Normal Folks - We Need To Look In The Mirror About Lane Kiffin

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

For Shop Talk, Coach Bill shares his outside-the-box take on the Lane Kiffin saga. Even if you're not a college football fan, there's life lessons for our own lives and for the Army in this story! Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney. Welcome to the shop. Hi, Alex. Hey, Bill. How's everything going? It's going great. Really? I'm only in Memphis, like, four days this week. Maybe five days. I think I'm coming here every single day this week. Are you really? Yeah, a lot of work. Yeah, it is a lot of work. But we love it. How are the, uh, are the kids all? Actually, the last reason is thanks to you. You're giving me your Grizzlies tickets on Friday. Well, that was nice of me. That was nice of you.

Merry Christmas. Thank you. How old was, are the kids all stoked about Christmas? Yeah. Yeah, so we just spent Amelia Island in Florida where my parents are. That's cool. And our first time exploring Savannah. I've always driven through it, but never spent a...

Savannah, Georgia. Yeah, so we spent a day there. It's a cool town. Beautiful. There's a lot of history there. Yeah. Did you go do any of the Civil War history or whatever? Not really.

We just, I mean, we were just there for 12 hours or something. But we, that Forside Park is beautiful and just walking around the squares. And the riverfront, it's cool. It's a great time. All right. Everybody, we, as you know, we number all of our shop talks. And candidly, we record them a little early. Then you hear them probably a week, two, three weeks,

and then do some editing on them because I might screw up and then put the music to them. So a shop talk that you're listening to typically was produced two or three weeks before you hear it. And Alex and I constantly struggle with the numbers of them to make sure the numbering's right. Well, because this one's actually a current event, very topical, we're recording it now, and you're going to hear it two days later, which means it's coming in front of two we've already done that are numbered. So this is Shop Talk A.

Okay, Phil. Yeah. That's why I don't have a number, but it's Shop Talk A. hope we never get to do a B. Oh, we're going to do a B. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. Yeah, that's right.

An alternative numbering system? That's correct. Well, no, no, no. Ordering system. Any weird, impulsive ones we have to stick in before we've done the numbered ones are now lettered shop talks. So what are your favorite things that start with the letter A? Listen, Apple. Apple.

Alex. Alex! There you got. There you go. That feels great. This is the A for Alex episode. Apple Cobbler right now? That sounds pretty good.

Yeah, it could be, yeah. So everybody, the reason we're shoving it in here to keep a topical is we're going to talk about the Lane Kiffin's saga. And for those of you who don't know the saga, because you don't follow college football really closely, I'll set it up. But I really do think it has lessons for things much greater than just college. football. And we'll get to my thoughts on the Lane Kiffin saga right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. Being a parent is basically a juggling act, dinner practice, homework, a last-minute science project, and someone's always, always shouting for you from

another room. So yeah, I'll take any shortcuts that actually works. And that's why I'm all in on Hello Fresh. Fresh ingredients, super easy recipes and over 80 options every week so everyone eats. No one complains and I get to feel like I've got it all together, at least for dinner. And the best part, you're in total control. Skip a week, pause any time, pick what works for you. It's dinner on your terms. They even have 15 minute recipes. Perfect for those nights when everyone's hungry and patience is officially off the menu. And with so many options, even my pickiest eater found something they loved,

which means no more backup mac and cheese. Try HelloFresh today and get 50% off the first box with free shipping. Go to HelloFresh.combe.combe rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.combe.combe rescue 50. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes gentlemen's cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different.

Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentleman's cut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Hey, everybody, it's Chuck and Josh from the Stuff You Should Know podcast,

and it's that time of year again when we knuckle down to do our annual holiday episodes. We collected our best past classic holiday episodes and compiled them into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist that the whole family can enjoy. That's right. Maybe you missed it the first time we detailed the history of Beanie Babies, Monopoly, or Yo-Yo's, and a whole lot more.

So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? how was that not a story we all know what it what's this you where is that why is it wet boy do we have a show for you from smartless media campside media and big money players comes

crimeless join me josh dean investigative journalists and me roy scoville comedian as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals we'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws honestly it feels more like a high level prank than a crime. Who catfish is a city? And meet some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think, she's a witch.

And it freaks you out. He has x-rayed vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking.

us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about.

Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

everybody welcome back to shop talk a for Alex thanks bill yeah no problem uh we're finally not saying the B will be B for Bill oh nice yeah and then see I don't know we'll go on from there people are going to be so unsettled that you didn't say like my pain in the producer like put them behind a curtain like you were actually nice to me this morning hi it's going to really subtle people it's it's the holiday festive season right it's time to be kind so here's the deal lane kiffin has a really kind of a checkered pass in the coaching circles see first of all father monnie kiffin is a revered defensive coordinator who actually invented what's called the tampa two i don't want to get into that but it's a defensive coverage where when the

offense has three receivers to one side, the safety split, and the linebacker covers the number three receiver down the middle of the field. It was never done. That's a really rudimentary explanation, but he was at Tampa Bay Buccaneers when he kind of invented it, and it became the Tampa Two defense, and it's now part of defensive ethos. So Monty Kiffin has been a name in defensive coaching circles for decades that has been revered in his son, Lane, went to Fresno State as a quarterback, and before he left there, he kind of quit playing and became a graduate assistant. I didn't know that, but that makes a lot of sense.

Yeah, he actually quit playing. He got in an argument with the coaches, quit playing, and the next day came out, didn't have on equipment, was a coach, as a, like a junior or senior at Fresno State. I meant that he was a quarterback, but that part, too. Yeah. He looks like a sunshine. All of it. Yeah, that's the truth. From there, he bounced around. He was the quarterback's coach for USC and Pete Carroll back in the heyday before Pete Carroll went to Seattle. And he became the coach at the University of Tennessee, where he went seven and five or seven and six. But Tennessee was excited about him. And one night he decided to leave and he took the job at U.S.

USC and left Tennessee high and dry, and Tennessee fans with nuts and burnt mattresses and damn near caught the campus on fire, and he went to USC because that was, quote, his dream job. After two and a half seasons in a very poor third year at USC, he was famously fired on the tarmac in the middle of the season, and Pat Hayden, the athletic director of USC, loaded the team up and went back to USC and left him at the airport. He was the football coach, the youngest NFL football coach in the history of the NFL when Al Davis hired him to be the coach of the Oakland Raiders, and he was summarily dismissed before that first season was over. His career was resurrected by Nick Sabin as Nick Sabin's offensive coordinator at Alabama, and when they were famously on one of their national championship runs, only a week before they, the national championship game, Nick Saban fired him because Kiffin had been offered the job

at a Florida school, FAU, to go be the head coach the following year, which is just fine. But Coach Saban thought Lane was spending more time on preparing for his FAU job than he was preparing Alabama for the national championship. Nick Sabin had had enough and let him go. if you can see a little bit of a theme here seems to be that the guy is a talented play caller and a talented coach but chaos seems to follow him everywhere he resurrected himself at f a u had three great seasons and o'miss after the hugh-free's debacle and subsequent mat luke being the coach there, and he was unsuccessful,

they hired Lane to resurrect the program. Lane spent six years at Ole Miss and did what, by all counts, is a phenomenal job. Returned Old Miss Football to Revolence. Won more games in his time there than Johnny Vaugh, who the football stadium is named after. And despite his quirkiness, his aloof, and a lot of his drama, the Ole Miss faithful, supported him, raised money for him,

raised money for the NIL to pay players, and really supported them. And only five days ago, Lane Kiffin, when Ole Miss, for the first time in its history, is in the football playoffs and a legitimate national championship title contender, Lane Kiffin left, and he is now the head coach at LSU because he wants to chase a national championship at LSU when he has a team at Ole Miss that could win the national championship. Kind of, kind of has people in Oxford not real happy.

That should get you up on the Lane Kiffin story. Is that about right, Alex? That's good, yeah. Okay. I mean, you missed hot yoga, you missed his... Well, finding Jesus. Fair enough. I was joking around.

But it's true. In the six years at Ole Miss, he has readily said, I needed Oxford more than Oxford needed me, meaning, yeah, I've won a bunch of games and helped the program get better, but he's got better. He's reconciled with his wife, who he divorced, all his kids, except for one who plays volleyball at USC. His kids have moved to Oxford. His son is a star quarterback on Oxford High School football team. His daughter is enrolled at Ole Miss and in a sorority. And ESPN even did a really heartfelt documentary on Lane Kiffing finding himself.

And he's founded purpose and he's happy and he's doing hot yoga and meditation and prayer. And this narrative that Lane Kiffin had changed. changed his ways and everything as a result of slowing his life down and being an Ole Miss and finding success and happiness there. And here's this guy that's gone through this entire rebooting of his life. And then he blows up a national championship running leaves. He goes to LSU. So there's that too.

All of this is not really why I'm going to read to you something I've read. wrote as an op-ed, because honestly, as usual, I think we as an army of normal folks, even with regard to this, need to take a look in the mirror. So here's what I wrote. The experience of watching the Lane Kiffin's saga has helped me to see very clearly a reality that I really think all fans of college football need to get their arms around. We have now built, adopted, accepted, and are financially invested in a system that supports, encourages, and rewards impressionable teenagers and young men, often those whose brains are still developing, and many of whom come from already difficult backgrounds, to break their word, abandon commitment, and put

themselves before a team with whom they are supposed to be ready to sweat and bleed. Why should we expect more from their coaches? We donate to the system. We purchase the tickets and share it on. We obsess over the decisions made by people inside this system and then find ourselves amazed. And heat praise or consternation on these people based on which team's colors we wear.

With hundreds of millions of dollars at stake annually, the system that we claim to abhor, while emptying our pockets to support is not Lane Kiffin's creation. Certainly, he is not a victim of it either. Rather, he has profited in ways most people in the world can't ever dream of. But truthfully, he is also just another pawn inside the system. Nothing he has done to leave is illegal. And he and his representatives have simply figured out how to shrewdly work inside the system

to gain as much as they can from it. Is it moral? Is it ethical? Is it right? Is this what we want our society and culture to behave like? Well, those are other questions and ones we should really consider, but we need to do so outside the context of Lane Kiffin and his most recent decisions because he is only operating inside a system that can't exist without our support.

yet every stadium for the upcoming playoffs will be sold out and packed the networks will sell millions and ads and major sponsors will line up ready to pay for the time hundreds of podcasts like this one will be listened to about the games and its coaches and players ESPN will broadcast hours and hours of coverage as we remain glued to our couches to hear what the pundits have to say soon we will celebrate a victor the national champion crowned this year's king of the system, and everyone will get paid handsomely with our money as we continue to look for answers in our empty pockets. We'll be right back. Being a parent is basically a juggling act, dinner, hockey practice, homework, a last-minute science project and someone's always, always shouting for you from another room. So yeah, I'll take any shortcuts that actually works. And that's why I'm all in on Hello Fresh. Fresh ingredients, super easy recipes and over 80 options every week so everyone eats. No one complains and I get to feel like

I've got it all together, at least for dinner. And the best part, you're in total control. Skip a week, pause any time, pick what works for you. It's dinner on your terms. They even have 15 minute recipes. Perfect for those nights when everyone's hungry and patience is officially off the menu. And with so many options, even my pickiest eater found something they loved, which means no more backup mac and cheese. Try HelloFresh today and get 50% off the first box with free shipping. Go to Hellofresh.com slash.ca and use promo code Rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.combe. I'm Stefan Curry and this is gentleman's cut. I think what makes This gentleman's cut different is me being a part of, you know, developing the profile of this

beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Hey, everybody. It's Chuck and Josh from the Stuff You Should Know podcast, and it's that time of year again when we knuckled down to do our annual holiday episodes.

We collected our best past classic holiday episodes and compiled them into a 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist that the whole family can enjoy. That's right. Maybe you missed it the first time we detailed the history of Beanie Babies, Monopoly, or Yo-Yo's, and a whole lot more. So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers. And what is this? How is that not a story we all know?

What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players, comes crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoville, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.

We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfish is a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has x-rayed vision.

How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience.

But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot.

The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. What do you think about that, Alex? I thought it was really well written for once. For once? Wow, that's me.

Actually, I was going to plug it. If you aren't following Bill, follow him on LinkedIn, Facebook, X. We actually posted this and has a lot. of good feedback but also other things that we post in the future i think you'd find a interest following him yeah but what do you think about i mean i think it's a really interesting perspective to look outside of lane like you know i'm living at oxford and you're just seeing people constantly mark and i'm a huge old miss fan and supporter so it's very personal to me too but when i sat back from i looked at it and i thought we sit here and about it but we pour our

money effort and our energy into it once again it's not Lane it's it's not the NCAA that's really the problem here we are the problem we are the problem and I've said that too about other things about higher ed and I'll not going to get because it's more political I'm not going to go into it but I'd say this to my friends all the time like you complain about this stuff nationally and yet you give your money to Ole Miss and you send your kids to old miss and like what are you doing like you're allowed to have some hypocrisy when it comes to your beloved institution and just look away well I and here's the thing. Maybe this system gets exactly what we want it to. It's exciting. We root for it. It gives us

something to do. But I'm just saying when the very system that we pay for and support gives us stuff that we don't like, don't be a hypocrite and gripe about it. We're cheering it on. and if it really is an issue and everybody's like things got to change what's the answer the answer's in your pocket don't support it but if you do support it and you don't like what happens don't sit there and say woe is me um look again i don't think lane kiffin's a changed man at all i think it's a a really um a really good narrative to help you his brand you know all you got to do is follow him on social media it's it's it's very superficial very contrite um not uh it it reeks of someone begging to be seen as deep through a very shallow

lens. So whatever. But I'm also not going to vilify Lane Kiffin for doing anything he's done inside a system that we continue to pour money into support and cheer on. You know, Lane Kiffin is just a pawn. Ling Kiffin is just a spoke in the system that we continue to support and drive as fast as we can down the highway. So that's what I was, the point I was trying to make is, as usual, it's not the few actors at the top that really matter. It's the army of normal folks below it that can change it, support it, or collapse it if we wanted to.

Yeah, I mean, as a Christian, it came to me this week. Like, what if we had this much attention on Jesus this week as we did about Lane Kiffin, right? And all the conversations, you know, about that. And I've had similar thoughts in the past about Trump, or you could say it about Kamala or Obama or whoever, right? Like, if we spend that much time on the things that actually mattered or an army of normal folks, and I think similar to kind of your point in here, too, I mean, that's kind of a more difficult thing to say, so people don't get pissed off. But I think, frankly, Americans watch too much sports and are too much involved in that whole ecosystem. And it's, I think it's obviously

more, we all need breaks, right? So that's healthy, especially if you got one, one or two teams, whatever, that's great. But a lot of Americans just watch it all day on Saturday or Sunday. And it's a huge problem. We're just watching, and the same thing with all the social media stuff. You are watching other people do stuff rather than acting yourself. And your life will be much more fulfilling if you're acting yourself, helping another person. It's true.

And when Le Bonn-James' commentary on some political element of the day carries weight, it may have gone too far. LeBron's comment on basketball is probably an expert opinions and one we should really pay attention to. But when sports figures have been exalted to a place that we get our social compass from, it's gone too far. And with regard to this whole Lane Kiffin's saga, I was pissed because I've been an Ole Miss fan my whole life. I'm a graduate of Ole Miss, and on the eve of the greatest season we've ever had, not only does he leave, but he takes our assistant coaches or many of our assistant coaches with them, and I know damn good and well that he's going to be trying to post some of our players.

And that really makes me angry because we finally have a chance at Ole Miss to do something really, really special. And on the very precipice, looking over the edge of that excitement, here comes the guy that built it, blowing it up. And I was angry. And then I thought, hold on. How does Lane Kiffin even exist? How does any of this even exist, if not but for? the millions and millions and millions of dollars of support that we give a system that he's operating in and if i don't like it um and if i'm spending too much time obsessing over it

instead of much more important things in the face of the planet maybe i need to look in the mirror a little bit and so uh instead of looking for answers in my empty pockets i've decided to uh put my focus on much more important things elsewhere and that's my challenge to my readers on this particular op-ed i do think he is a interesting reflection too on how much money is enough it's like you give you give basically have given away being the king at oxford and building this really you know really interesting thing what for the money or and and the old misadministration matched every dollar i mean ls us paying them lane was making nine million a year which is already insanity and And LSU offered them 13, and the Ole Miss Administration said, fine.

We'll pay you the same 13. I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. They matched the money. It's, it's, it was not about the money. It was about the perception that at LSU, he can get more better players and win a national

championship, but it's still chasing an idol, and the idol is the mortality of a national championship of coaching a national champion or ongoing national champion but here's the thing he's got a team that's 11 and 1 that's in the playoffs to win the national champion and he just left to go to a team who is not in the playoffs because of the of the traditional history of the power of lSU which some could argue is an easier place to recruit to. It's a bigger school. It's got deeper pockets. All of that.

The point is, why take down the school you're at on the way out? And that's what's got everybody exercise. But the end of the day, it's football. It's a game. It's not life and death. And it doesn't exist without the millions of dollars supporting these people that make these decisions based on our money that we pour into it. So it is an interesting reflection of society today, and I just thought it's the army

of normal folks who are supporting it. If you want to continue to support it, do so. But don't gripe about what happens inside it, because we have created it. it with our own money. Sounds good. You're nailed it. So there it is. That's Elaine Kiffin thing from my perspective.

Shop talk number A. Shop talk number A. Shop talk letter A. If you enjoyed this episode, please write it review it, share friends on on social. Join the Army at normalfolks. Do any in all of these things that can help us grow an army of normal folks. If you have any ideas for Shop Talk or people that fit the profile of those we like to highlight on an army and normal folks you can write me

anytime at bill at normalfolks. us i'll respond i will always send the information to Alex he will vet it and if it's something we think we can add something to or a person that fits into what we try to highlight we will do it so that's it i hope you enjoyed shop talk a for Alex we'll see you next week I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang.

You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gabe must have. untangle a dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product.

With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'scuturban.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audience. is 21 and older. Gentlemen's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen'scutturbin.com. Please enjoy responsibly.

Hey, everybody, it's Chuck and Josh from the Stuff You Should Know podcast, and it's that time of year again when we knuckle down to do our annual holiday episodes. We collected our best past classic holiday episodes and compiled them into a 12 days of Christmas toys playlist that the whole family can enjoy. That's right. Maybe you missed it the first time we detailed the history

of Beanie Babies, Monopoly, or Yo-Yo's, and a whole lot more. So listen to the 12 Days of Christmas Toys playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville, and I'm here to tell you,

Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years.

That's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill him. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.