An Army of Normal Folks - What a Former Heroin Addict Will Teach You About Relationships | Ariel Moore

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

Ariel Moore lost nearly everything - her home, her freedom, and even her child. But that's not where her story ends. In this episode, Ariel sits down with Bill to talk about how she rebuilt her life from the ground up, what it looks like to be restored rather than just recovered, and why she believes God didn't save her just for herself. If you’re at a low point in your life and looking for a little hope, this episode is for you. Buy Ariel's book at the link below!  Divine Authenticity: Moore, Ariel: 9798997522278: Amazon.com: Books ARMY ACTIONS Subscribe to the podcast and rate & review us! Signup to join the Army, visit NormalFolks.org Follow us on social media @ArmyofNormalFolks Join or start an ANF local service club at https://normalfolks.org/service-clubs/ Take The 10 Level Challenge, "the hero's journey for service" at 10LevelChallenge.org  Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The police kicked in your door, arrested you, and took your son into state custody. How did your life unravel to that? I had no family. I had no friend. I had no money. I took an entire, like, prescription of Xanax and tried to kill myself. A stranger saw a request on and out and showed up your door at the crib. She came in my house and she helped put this crib together. And so then I tell her everything that bad about me. Nothing I said could scare her. She was just so accepting. And now I was willing to build myself a life. of good people. When I got into a culture that rose the standard for me, then I could rise to that standard because I always had it in me. This is Army of Normal Folks, where our mission is to make

service easier for all of us and together change the country. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offered. me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone,

I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Proz Society, the weekly podcast that's part Book Club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks

Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside, compelling characters, and that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. A shocking crime and a cover-up at the highest levels of the United States Marine Corps. Someone opened the door and was the primary shooter. Is it possible you could do that and then suppress the memory? A new podcast series, Faultline Haditha, tells the story the United States government wants to keep buried. How can you not know?

There were women and children in there. You're going to tell us here that you don't know what happened that day? Based on thousands of pages of previously classified documents and over 100 hours of secretly filmed video, the truth about one of the most infamous crimes in Marine Corps history can finally be told. If you've got five players and one of them is guilty of murder at least, and you offer immunity to the other four, you better be right about the fifth.

Because if you're not, then you've just given immunity to your killer. Listen to Faultline Haditha on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ariel Moore from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Welcome to Memphis. Yay, thank you. It's so good to meet you. everybody Ariel is an author a speaker

a former senior director at the Center for Social Innovation at OSU O KC Holy What about cool Yeah it is I hated it That's who she is

I think she's going to teach you everything you need to know about the transformative power of relationships But we're going to first start with the irony of how the transformative power of relationships

started with the lack of relationships in her life and what that can lead to. In 2016, the police kicked in your door, arrested you and took your son into state custody. How did your life unravel to that? Yeah, yeah. And I actually have a picture of that day, by the way. So remind me to share it.

How old were you on that day? It's 24. Okay. Yeah. But really everything in my life was sort of like what you're saying leading up to that. When I was in the womb, right now I got one in the womb. But whenever I was in the womb, my biological father had just contracted HIV. He was a drug addict and had been incarcerated, things like that.

Needles. Yep. Yeah. And even his own story was, his parents could. couldn't handle him. He went to boys' homes, was assaulted in those homes, textbook kind of story that happens to a lot of people. And then when he turned 18, he was doing drugs, crime, prostitution. So even the way that he contracted it, they don't really know exactly how it happened. But this was 80s and 90s, so it was a big deal around that time, too. So he contracted that. My mom

finds out while she's pregnant with me, and then they split ways. And at that time, my mom's going to law school. And so some of my earliest memories are at, like, law school, like, in this college campus. And she's, you know, getting a degree and just trying to be a single mom and working really hard. And she's from San Francisco, you know, and a contract attorney. And so she's, like, super intelligent and super, I would call her, like, progressive. You know, like, she was not, she was kind of anti-O Oklahoma, anti-church, anti-church, anti-execurgy. all these things, and I really clung to that sort of narrative about life. I thought that I was

sort of equating intelligence to not being religious, if that makes any sense. Like maybe that was the smarter thing. So I was very anti-all religion growing up. And so my mom worked all the time. I mean, she'd get up at 6 a.m. She wouldn't come home until 6. She had three kids. She got remarried. I had a stepdad. He worked overnights. And so we were just by ourselves a lot. And so I was watching just TV.

Like, you know, I was like watching, raised on the media. Like family guy and Chappelle Show and like my favorite movie was half baked. And so I was like, I should find weed. I should see what this is. And go and felt like I was all like it was all just me coming up with these plans to go and be in the world. And so I was just really influenced, I think. And I think more than anything like I looked exactly like my dad and my mom would say it a lot, like my mannerisms, the way I laugh. Everything is the same as him.

And so when I started to feel like I didn't belong, I thought maybe that's the goal. Like maybe that's the key. If I can know this man, then I can know me. Like maybe my identity was found in him. And so I would look him up on the court record site because that was the only way I could find him. and he would be like super skinny and scary every time just worse and worse. And so I felt like had this time clock ticking to find him. And so then 13, 14, 15, I'm doing cheer, track, volleyball, acting, singing.

I'm doing everything that is anything I'm getting involved with and, you know, full of life. But really obsessed with like boyfriends and who I was dating. And so everything was like revolving around like changing the way I felt, trying to find identity, trying to find belonging. And honestly, like, I just wanted to feel loved. And my mother is a wonderful person. But she had experienced a lot of trauma that she never healed from. And so she's the kind of person that is like, don't, she doesn't like it when people touch her. Like she doesn't want to hug.

She doesn't want, she wants a lot of space. And so as a kid, that feels like I don't like you. I don't love you. And so that's sort of the world that I was living from. And so when I was like 14 or 15, me and my friends stole a car because we were going to run away. We had never driven before. Might I add ever, like we were going to. How'd you get the keys?

There was a neighbor's car. So I'm walking to the garage. Got the Honda Corp. Or Honda Civic. It was brand new to. It had like a slanted front. like dash, it was very plushed. And so we were going to run away.

And we were driving through Slaughterville, Oklahoma. Cue the ominous music. And it was 4 a.m. and we were going 70 miles an hour. And I had a DVD player in my lap. Candice was driving. Because if you're going to run away, you have to have your DVD fire. I was smoking cigarettes.

I was like at, and we had our window, I was smoking Newport cigarettes, ashing him out the little window, probably call it. laughing. I don't even know. We were so crazy. And so I asked Candace like, hey, what's this movie about? And she's driving. She looks at the movie and starts to tell me about it. And then we blast through a road sign, ravine, hit a tree, the whole front end of the car impacts into where we are. And this is like, we didn't have a phone in these days, you know. And so I broke my hands and arms in one of my legs or my ankles and she shattered her whole eye socket so she looked like a deflated basketball completely unresponsive i think she's dead um then that i mean it was just so crazy even trying to get out of

that car with no hands is like you know just things that you don't think of but like trying to get the seat belt off and couldn't open the door um but all the glass had shattered so i like sat up on the window seal on the window sill and just fell out the other side because you can't catch yourself and then I had to pee immediately. I was like, what am I going to do? How am I? And so for some reason, I squatted down anyways, and I pee my pants. And so now I've got blood, mud, and pee all over me.

Oh, my God. I know. I know. And so then I find the road and scoot up the ravine and go to someone's house. I mean, like I walk miles to someone's house at Slaughterville. So like four people live there. And so I went to one of the four of their houses and knocked on the door at the foot that wasn't broken. This guy answers the door, massive man with his eyes closed. And I tell him what

happened, cradling my arms. And he's like, so call the cops? And I'm like, yeah, please. He goes back inside. He's sleepwalking. He goes back to bed. Are you kidding me? And so I just had this bench piled high with like magazines, like an older house magazine. So there's just one little corner of the bench. And so I just sit there waiting. Like, it's three hours later. So, like, at first, I guess there's, like, a lot of adrenaline when you get hurt. You don't feel it as much. And so once the adrenaline wore off, I was screaming on the front porch.

And they're his, he lived with his parents, and they answered the door. And they were, oh, my gosh. And they were so nice. And that we use a phone, and we survived. So, you know, spoiler. But after that accident, I got prescribed a bunch of pain pills. and it was like that, and I had so at 14 on a growing brain. And that's the thing is like,

which clearly had some growing to do. I had some, and I was little. I was small for my age anyways. I was all going to be growing for a while. But, you know, I have parents come to me now, like, my daughter or my son's struggling with this. We can't tell if it's mental health, if it's hormones, if it's drugs.

I'm like, yeah, it's all the same category. And so we try to treat, you know, I mean, I can't tell you how many mental health medications I was on. Like I did, I did all the things. I went to all the counseling, hoping that we could figure out what's wrong with me, and then I could be good, or I could be, but I could be good, honestly.

And so just got really addicted to pain pills. And then I started getting into, like, worse trouble. Again, I don't know if it was because of my was getting, growing up and more hormonal or drugs or what. Or lonely. You know? I mean, not having a mom that hugs you and a dad in jail. Yeah.

I mean, like, even whenever I was recovering, they just set me up a cot in the living room. And I literally just watched TV all night. And every, like, four to six hours, I'd be like, okay, I can take my pills again. That was it for months, for months and months. It was like that. And then I would be, like, lying to the doctor about how bad things, like, about pain, not really realizing how addicted I was to them. Oh, you were lying to the doctor telling them how bad you were hurt so you could get more.

So I get more. At 14. Yeah. Yes. And so it was like, yeah. But when you're in it, you just feel bad. You just feel like you're the bad guy. As an adult, I would have more like, oh, you know.

But in it, I'm just like bad. And so I'm taking on this narrative that I'm bad, that something's wrong with me or, you know, that I'm the bad guy. And now, a few messages from our generous sponsors. but first, I want to read you a note that we got from Army member Sandy Peterson. Sandy wrote this. I would like to give a shout out to those who, on their daily walks, take the task of making our neighborhoods look better. This is done simply by bringing a bag and picking up trash along their way.

An additional benefit is, every time you've been dope, you're doing a sit-up, which I guess is true. If you're doing something like this in your community or you know somebody who is, we really do want to hear about it. And being a member of the army of normal folks is really about doing what you can, where you can. And the reason I love this note is this isn't something that's going to be on the show. This isn't something anybody's really going to celebrate that much. This isn't something somebody's going to write a newspaper, about, but it makes your community better. It makes your place to live prettier.

And it's clear that very quietly, people appreciate it. It's that simple. How can I better my community? Pick up trash. There's thousands of ways to be a member of the army of normal folks. And Sandy points out how something so simple can be so meaningful. So if you know of people like this or somebody who's doing things like this, we really do want to hear about it. Send us your or their story at normalfolks.org.

We may read yours right here on the show. Please make sure you sign up to join the Army while you're there. We'll be right back. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for-you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Proz Society, the weekly podcast that's Part Book Club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling kids. characters, and that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive. what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. A shocking crime and a cover-up at the highest levels of the United States Marine Corps. Someone opened the door and was the primary shooter. Is it possible you could do that and then suppress the memory? A new podcast series, Faultline Haditha, tells the story the United States government wants to keep buried. How can you not know? There were women and children in there. You're going to tell us here that you don't know what happened that day?

Based on thousands of pages of previously classified documents and over a hundred hours of secretly filmed video, the truth about one of the most infamous crimes in Marine Corps history can finally be told. If you've got five players and one of them is guilty of murder at least, and you offer immunity to the other four, you better be right about the fifth. Because if you're not, then you've just given immunity to your killer. Listen to Faultline Haditha on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So went into girls, I was in the Baptist Children's Home, Oklahoma Youth Center, Teen Challenges, Red Rock facilities, 24-hour jails.

I mean, I've been in, I was in 13 different facilities by the time. time I was 18 years old. And so I got used to giving up my shoes. So the first thing they do was take their dang shoes so you don't run away. I ran away anyways. I would just get that alarm system and take off. So if I could get out, I would. Dang it. And so that was sort of my life was like I get captured, put some, I mean like, and they have hired transporters, might add to capture children. Like, they capture you. And it's like a regular car. It's like a regular car that's capturing you, not a police car. But they have like shackles, like your feet and your hands. I'm like, oh, you got me good. You got me this time. And so I've been in the back seat like, can I have a

cigarette? And I'm like, little bitty. I'm like, just fun. I'm literally losing everything right here right now, guys. So many times, like, especially cool police officers in Oklahoma City, they would they were like taking me out to McDonald's and, you know, I would smuggle in, um, dip in these facilities like Grizzly Wintergreen because you couldn't smell it. And so I'd smuggle it in and I'd like hustle it because it was just nicotine. But I mean, there was one girl in one of those facilities that her name was Angel, which a giant scar across her face. And, uh, nuts.

But she, uh, threw a coffee. pot on the ground and ate the pieces to try to cut her throat from the inside. Oh my God. Like it was the most wild stuff I had ever seen in my life. And then if you get in fights with people, which I did, because they would tell on me for doing bad stuff. And the people at work there will, like, tackle you and give you a calm me down shot in the butt to calm me down.

And so it was like just violent. More drugs. Violence, medications. By the time I was like 17 years old, my dad got the next. news that my father passed away. I was furious. I like lose it because I'm so close to being 18. I have his home address. I'm going to go to his house. What's the plan? And we're going to just be best friends immediately. I had this whole like dream of what that moment of reconciliation would have been like. But so when he died, I was really upset. Mostly at my mom. Because you've got to

aim that somewhere. You got to aim the blame. She was right there. And so I hated her so much. Poor lady. And so I really lost it, got in huge trouble at the facilities I was at, and got transported to a teen challenge in Florida or in Alabama. And I was very anti-religion, and these places are very religious, the teen challenges were. And so they paired me up with a big sister who was reading the Bible to me out loud, and I told her if she didn't stop, I would effing kill her. And so, and she's thinking like, she's a good Christian. So she's like, this is my evangelistic call right here. I'm going to do it for you, Lord.

And so she was reading that Bible out loud to me. And I took a chair and just assaulted her. And then I got captured again. And I mentioned that story because her dad was the evangelist at the Brownsville Revival. So very powerful man, anointed, you know, just like had a lot of history. in his own life. I don't know this at all. I don't know Steve Hill. I don't know these people. And I don't care, honestly. But I like to think that like, okay, these people definitely, I've probably prayed for me. Like, you know, you have a story like that and you're like, I'm praying over her. And so I get transported

to Lakeland, Florida, and get put in a jumpsuit, which is like the top and the bottom's attached. So if you raise your arms, you're getting a wedgy kind of situation. Like it was like, oh, another level. It was a whole other level. And they strip search you so you don't get to smuggle in anything. Like it was just the bottom of the barrel for me, guys. But what happened is as I walked into this facility and the lights were dim in this really big room. And all these little girls, like teenagers, are just encircled around this room, facing the walls, not looking at each other.

And there's like a little CD player in the middle of the room playing worship music. And these little girls are like worshipping their hearts. it out to the wall, like not even seeing each other. No one's in charge. And I felt like the presence of God for the first time in that room. How old were you? 17. And after everything that had just happened, it was like, okay.

And so I surrendered my life to God. I woke up the next day. I was a different person. Like had forgiven my mother immediately, like had, I saw her with like so much compassion for who she was. really was and the fears that she was living from. So I separated my own story from hers and loved her in a way that I had never been able to do overnight, overnight. And so it was really beautiful. It was wonderful. And so while I was there, we went to Honduras on mission trips and

saw like, I mean, it was really tough. You weren't allowed to like talk to people and you had to get up at 5 a.m. and do corrections, like army corrections. It was tough. But I think I needed it. I I think I needed it. And so it really just filled me up with so much goodness. When I turned 18, I left. And so I just didn't know how to take like God with me, you know, because the world is not the same. It's totally different. And I mean, and I didn't even cuss. You know, I was like being so pure and good. But then I went back on the world and like no one else was about it. No one care. no one, I just didn't know how to take God's presence with me. And so I lost it. I lost it like really quick. So the worst things I ever did really was after I became a believer because I just

didn't, that's like people can love God but not know how to be strong in it. Like how does this look like practically? How do I take him in my pocket? Let's go do stuff together. I don't know. I don't know. And so turned 18, met a guy that was 14 years older than me. That was It's just beautiful, I thought. And he was so charming. And he was like, hey, come move into my house. Hey, let's get you a new car in my name. It's like, we'll get you a brand new phone.

It's on my phone plan. And so it's just like all my whole life got just sort of enveloped into his life. And so. Phil's groaned. You know, I don't know if he knew. I don't know if he knew, you know, intentionally. but he wasn't okay and I wasn't okay. And I think that that definitely showed up

where it was like I had lost all my rights, all my independence at all, which I didn't really have much of it anyways. And so when I was like... Do you think because of the way you grew up, the first person that was mature looking to you and offering things that felt like love, you just absolutely rolled into it.

Daddy issues. I mean, that's what that is. That's it. That's it. And there's like, I think I really wanted that sense of, like, safety, like, that I will take care of you. Because you never had it. I never had it. And to have someone be so, like, obsessed with me, I've never had so much attention.

You know, I never had, like, I never knew. Another drug. It's another drug. That could preach right there. I'm not preaching. Okay, no. We would know. I'm just commenting on your story.

I'm commenting. But I had never felt devotion before. And that was the first time that I felt it, you know, from a person. And so. I really get that. Yeah. It does something in your heart. You know, I think it's why it's so essential for little kids to have that.

So it's not so, like, addictive later, you know. And so, and plus he had bipolar disorder. And then occasionally he would, like, do hard drugs. drugs that I had never seen before. Like, he would hang out with his brother who was like a meth dealer or something. And then he'd come home and be like whispering and seeing things. And I was like, and I didn't know anything about real drugs. I call it real drugs.

And so I was like, what is happening? He's like, there's someone. He smoked a cigarette. There's someone stealing tools out of the shed. And I'm like literally like looking. I'm like, there's not. There's no one. There's no one out here.

It was so wild to see like that sort of, I don't know, psychosis or something like that. And so he has some big problems. And I did too because I was going to a pill mill, like a doctor that was just prescribing me the most of everything, to where the doctor that I had got arrested on multiple counts of murder a couple years later. Like all the people showed up to his little clinic. That was cash only, by the way. And it was just like a sign on the door shut down and all these like drug. in the parking lot like, oh gosh, what am I going to do?

So around that same time, I got a divorce finally, left with nothing. And the doctor gets shut down. I become a heroin addict immediately within probably two hours. Do you have a child yet? No. No. So I get divorced from him, start doing hard drugs. And then hard drugs is like...

You become a heroin addict? Immediately. What do you mean immediately? Immediately. Like two months later. Something I was like, I'll never. How does heroin become a good idea? Because the guy that, okay, so I couldn't go to the doctor anymore,

so I was getting pills from a guy that was buying it from. Well, he didn't always have them. That's the thing about, like, the pills stuff is like hit or miss. People have them sometimes somebody that don't because it's all prescription. Everything had to come through a doctor. And so he also sold heroin. And so he was always being like, you could have this. And I'm like, no.

And then one day, it was like, okay. And that was it. What do you get the money for all this stuff? I had a shady job. I had a shady job. I had some shady jobs. Plus, I just dated people that, like, had resources. I didn't really have resources, but then we know there's, like, crime and stuff like that.

So it was dark. It was dark. It was dark. I mean, the drug addiction was dark. What you were doing to get money was dark. Everything. And it was like. That level of darkness brings like a whole culture that I had never.

The culture of people. Yes. And like even like when you do hard drugs, you got to start dealing with like the cartel and gangs and stuff. These cartel people, oh my gosh, they'd be like, okay, I'll meet you at Portland and 10th intersection. I'll be in a green camry. So you've got to sit at that intersection and wait until you see a green camry. You know how many green camrys there are? A lot.

And so then once you see it, you follow it, down into some neighborhood streets, it will stop in the middle of the street in one of these neighborhoods. And you have to get out of your car and get into that car. And then you just go on an adventure. And hopefully they don't think you're a cop. Okay. So now you're a heroin addict. So now I'm heroin addict. And then I do all the drugs.

I do all of them. All of the, all of the plethora of things that you can do. start getting in like, crimes like charges as an adult, which means I'm going to jail as an adult, which means I owe adult money. What kind of charges? Possession.

All of it's drugs. Possession. But I don't know, you know, I don't know how much different it is now, but like when you go to jail, when I went to jail, I owed money for every day I was there.

So I'd get out owing $3,000. And then they're like, okay, we're going to let you go. We've got to promise to pay us this money back. I'm like, and you've got it. You got it. I'm doing it.

You will see me again. I don't even have a car. I've never had a job before. So I'm like, I'll say anything. And so then you just, and the only people that you know are the people that you just came from is the same drug people.

Like, who else is going to even come get me? And so it just, I don't know if they're thinking through all that. And so when you don't pay, then you have warrants immediately. So it was just a vicious cycle of, I owe money for being in jail, because I'm on drugs and then I have warrants and eventually have a child.

Eventually I have a child with the guy that I got divorced from. Oh, lovely. So like two years later or so we're like, okay, we're going to work it out. You know, because I always felt like he was the one. Like maybe he was my soulmate. And so we see each other and by then we're like pretty in the drug world. And we start dating for like a month because he bonds me out of jail, by the way.

And get pregnant during that time. What is so wild is that, During that same period of time, I took an entire prescription of Xanax and tried to kill myself and ended up in St. Anthony's hospital. And that was the same time that my son was conceived. And so I always say that, like, I literally chose death and God gave me life instead. And it would be that life that completely changed everything for me. It was like that moment. It was all at the same time.

And then we end up, because I have warrants for my arrest, I'm pregnant, very pregnant. it and I have warrants and I'm on drugs. I didn't know I was pregnant for a really long time. So I was like already on drugs the whole time. And then I find out. And then I'm like, well, I can't stop now. And you can't get help because you're going to go to jail. It was like, oh my gosh, it was so. And I'm trying to go to like the OBGY and like the baby doctors. And I'm like testing positive for meth like a couple times. And they never said anything to me. But I was also trying to stop. And so then I would test clean. I don't know how it was working behind the scenes. Maybe they didn't see it. So when you got arrested that day, you were pregnant and had a kid? I had just,

he was six months old to the day. I got it. And we were living in an abandoned house with no electricity and no running water. And so the door gets kicked in. They arrest you. And I guess your kid is now in the social services system. Yeah. And they were like, these cops, they were so sad. They were, like, looking at me, and they were just so sad, because I am just in despair. Because people like me, like, I had no family, I had no friend, I had no money. And I was little. I mean, I was like 23, I probably like 18, you know. And they were just, like, so sad for this environment because they, I mean, I don't even know.

They didn't want to. When I found out I was pregnant, I was like, okay, I can't just live on people's couches or outside. I have to, like, be in a space, like, probably in a house now. And so went up and down the streets of a city called Bethany in Oklahoma and found a house that the grass was like as tall as I was and just moved into that sucker. Just swatted. Just squatted. Yes, which you can do and no one can take you out, by the way. It's so weird.

And so moved into that house and live there, no electricity, no running water. I mean, we would literally go steal people's lawn furniture to burn it in the fireplace in the house for warmth. It was like, or I get like, fraudulently get the electricity turned on. But once my son was born, it was like the first time that... You keep saying we. Is this you and this? It would be like random people. Okay.

Honestly, yeah, it'd be like drug people that were in and out. I got it. But when my son was born, it was the first time that I had felt like unconditional love. Like it explode. Like when you have a kid, you just, you transform. into someone else. And it was like, oh, that feeling was like, oh, my gosh, completely reorganized my chemistry.

But I could not, like, figure out how to be sober still. Like, I couldn't. I loved him so much, but I was in such desperate, like, need. I was, like, in so much, like, anguish, my soul and my heart. I have done, I mean, I'd done so many bad things and had a lot of that. Did you feel an enormous sense of guilt? Yeah, oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Especially like every time you hold them.

Or if you're like trying to go do drugs and your baby's crying or something, like there was, it was just like, oh, the tension of that. And then if you go and get help, you're going to jail. And so it was like all the options were like none. And so I remember sitting on my front porch. We had like a couch out there because we were tweakers. That's what tweakers did. Yeah, yeah. You have like carpeted it.

like textile furniture on your porch. But I remember just at night rocking my son in my arms and just like looking up with the stars. Like I cannot, I mean, I can never get that visual out of my head. And praying to a God I did not know. And then I was positive, did not like me anymore. But I thought he has got to still like babies. You know, and so I prayed that God would come save us. And he did. And that's when the police department came. He came and kicked in the door and arrested me and everyone in there. And even as I'm getting him ready to leave to be taken away, I'm like putting every article of clothes on this baby,

like five socks on each foot, four ones, like just taking all the time that I can until they just shut that door in your face. And that's it. When that door is shut in your face and you watch that baby get pulled away, what was that emotion? Being in that place, like when you're really in.

darkness, it feels like you're dead anyways. Like you're in like a state of death. Like nothing about me. It matters. No, my life doesn't matter. And so, like, he was the only, like, flicker of life or hope that I had in my life. And so it felt like I died. Do you still feel that now when you say it?

No, because I know the end of the story. I'm like, thank God. We'll get to the end of the story. Because I just know God so well that I know that that broke his heart. I believe, like, I know that. it broke his heart to do that. I know it did. And so to say to...

Well, it was an answer to prayer. It was. And I didn't know it then. And so it was like, uh, turned out. There's an old saying. Be careful what you pray for. You might just get it. You might get it.

You better be ready. What an amazing lead up to... You got work to do. I had work to do. And thankfully... And your son's gone. I do have a question. Was getting your son back the motivation for the work or getting your own life?

Oh, it was all him. It was all that my son. I did not care. I didn't want to be sober. You know, I think it's important as we hear your story. And your story's horrible. So far. Yeah.

Got it. It actually, I mean, there's a couple of times when you say that, I'm looking at you thinking, no human being should live like that. And as we hear your story, it's important to hear you. your story, but I also think it's really important to know that you're not unique. Right. There are thousands of people in our country experiencing a very similar story. We'll be right back.

Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability.

Bell, connection is everything. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. Yeah, I'm obsessed. Someone's says. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real

messages inside compelling characters, then that is the Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice

next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted. abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A shocking crime and a cover-up at the highest levels of the United States Marine Corps. Someone opened the door and was the primary shooter. Is it possible you could do that and then suppress the memory? A new podcast series, Faultline Haditha, tells the story the United States government wants to keep buried. How can you not know? There were women and children in there.

You're going to tell us here that you don't know what happened that day? Based on thousands of pages of previously classified documents and over a hundred hours of secretly filmed video, the truth about one of the most infamous crimes in Marine Corps history can finally be told. If you've got five players and one of them is guilty of murder at least, and you offer immunity to the other four, you better be right about the fifth. Because if you're not, then you've just given immunity to your color. Listen to Faultline Haditha on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And when I hear you say, my life didn't matter, I was dead anyway.

I had no hope. I didn't care. I felt like I had nobody. Nobody loved me. I was convinced God didn't even. love me, that should really explain a lot of what we see in the darkest corners of our culture. Your story just represents tens of thousands of other people in our country. Maybe speak to that because you were surrounded by them. Those were your people at one time.

Well, and I think unusually, what actually makes me sadder is that people can feel all the ways that you just said and not be on drugs. They could not have a kid. I mean, I had a lot of things that made me the worst of the worst so that I could get the best of the best. So interesting. So it's time to do the work. But honestly, you still don't even care enough about yourself to do the work. No.

It's about, what is your son's name? His real name is Stilis, but I call him Goose. Goose. All right. I love nicknames. And he was my golden goose. So your deal is. I got to get my

together so I can get that's right that's right so what's that work look like well going on supervised visitations with the foster family who thought I was the devil incarnate first of all

and that paperwork probably said some very true things about me and the house that he came out of and so they weren't wrong but oh gosh I'd be like I had no I didn't have a car

I mean they'd meet me at a public library that I walked to in the rain and had to roll up my jeans to get there. And so I get there and I'm like, you look like it. Oh, just mud had to, I mean, trying to like look my bad. I mean, and back then it was like I looked like a walking billboard for why not to do meth. Like it was like bad.

It was really bad. And so I show up there. I got a question. Teeth, the whole thing. Oh, I had a missing front tooth. Yeah. Just one. But it was enough because I got big teeth.

It was like, yeah. Oh, my gosh. it was a lot. And then my hair had all been ripped out. And it was like, it was just real bad. And I had my skin was all. I was by the sake, pit is. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that I am so grateful. I don't think. I am so grateful that I had a short amount of time, years in that life. Because, you know, the longer that you do it, the less, the harder it is to physically heal from, I think, you know, some of that stuff's more permanent. So you're doing the work and going to the library just to get a,

to visitation with Goose. And they'd be like trying to like look at me and they were scared of me. And I mean, I understand at the time they just felt like the enemy of my story as they were keeping my kid from me. And they were like renaming him, Charlie. I'm like, excuse me. I'm still here. And so it was like I was trying to like and I still felt like the bad guy.

So it was just again in an internal conflict. And so I'm showing up trying to get visitations. Long story short. I go to jail, find out about a program called Remerge, which is a diversion program that helps people get their kids back. And it's for the highest risk, highest need mothers. So like felony convictions, doing the worst drugs, the worst ways, poverty, mental health, abuse, like just the worst. You mean you? It's me.

I know. Finally, I was like, my background is coming in handy. Got me to the top of this list. And so I got accepted, like immediately. like immediately and because he was so young too that the intervention the time for intervention was just kind of the perfect window and so i get in that program show up high as a kite like so rann been up for a week well hold it you arrested how do you show a pie for a kite how is a car i was released okay and now it's i promised to pay them back oh yeah and they keep believing you for some reason suckers i'm suckers

And before I forget, have you paid it all back at this point? I have. And they're doing all this stuff about forgiving fines. Do you remember there with Sherry Garcia when she came here to your office? And she's like, I'm pretty sure there's still a warrant out for my arrest in Memphis. Yeah. Are we going to make this break? She's so cute.

And she showed up. She goes, I said, welcome to Memphis. She goes, well, I'm a little weird about being here. So why she goes, I'm pretty sure there's still worn out for my arrest. Nice. Nice. That is dedication for her to show it. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

She cornbread, Hustle? Yeah. Yeah, I've heard of them. I love that organization. She and you would be a blast to hang out with one night and just tell stories. I love. I love that. Yeah.

But I got released. And then so I self-surrender to the program. I showed up with a box of nail polish. That was all I had. And then my son's wansy, which I would put right here on my shoulder. What about the CD player? I guess it was left in the car. It was like, yeah.

We don't, yeah. By then, we're like iPods anyway. Got it. Okay. So I show up there, and I just, like, surrendered to the program. Honestly, I did everything they told me to do. I still wanted to do drugs. I was wondering how long the grip had you?

Like, remerged? Just the grip. The daily grip of the urge. I'd say probably a year. Yeah, probably a year. That's a long time to fight. It's a long time. That had been hard.

It was hard. And painful. And painful. I'm not a huge advocate for mental health medications, but when I first got there, I was taking them. And I think it helped me bridge the gap between. It's good as long as once the gap starts to be bridged that you wean off. That's right. That's right.

And so that's how I used it as like a temporary, like my brain's already so discombobulated from the drugs. I cannot control my mind will and emotions. How long did it take for you to be able to concentrate? Probably the same. Maybe a year. A year to just collect thoughts. I used to think that, and I read through old journals, and I remember talking about my brain is not working. Like, I cannot remember stuff.

I can't finish thoughts. And I just didn't know if it's going to be permanent. But it wasn't, like, but what happened is I started exercising. That's another little. Serotonin. I think it was like the blood flow. It felt like it healed my brain. Like my memory improved within days.

The only reason I ask is it's important, I think, for our listeners and viewers, just to understand that it isn't go to a 10-step process for 30 days and everything's good. Not even close. It is a long, hard journey is why so many people fall off the wagon. It's hard. And it's not even the drugs. It's not about the drugs. Something else is wrong in my soul.

And this is a solution right now. So those 30-day, whatever, okay, you're taking away drugs, but something is wrong deeply. Well, it's just like when you went to be 17 and you were good for that year and the minute you got out, all hell broke loose. So how long were you in that program? The program is about a year and a half. Wow. Yeah, it was a, and I literally thought it was like three months. I was furious when I found out.

But they let you smoke cigarettes. And so I was like, all right. You got some. Give me something. Give me something. And so eight months into the program, I get my own apartment at Hope House. There's a transitional housing called Hope House, which is like a Christian's sort of program, fantastic place.

So I get an apartment through them. And then I get trial reunification with my son. And that's whenever it's like, okay, I got the same department. And I need things. I had nothing. Which leads to you get your son back. You're in this transitional house. You do.

You're starting to get control of you. Yes. And a stranger saw a request on and out and showed up your door with a crib. Yes. Tell us about that. Well, and they're. And then what happened? After that.

They're super nice about like, hey, you know, do you want to be anonymous or is it okay? If you meet this person, like, they're very, like, respectful about people. They. The Care Portal. Right. Care Portal is very respectful. We've had the whole founder of Care Portal on the show. Adrian?

Yeah. It's been here. And great story, but for everyone, I'll do, Alex, just for everybody just to catch up what Care Portal is. You probably know you go for it. Let's happen to be in your voice. It's like Uber for Resources. That's the best way I've ever heard it explained.

And so the lady that met the request, her name was Mandy. So she shows up at my door. She shows up with this. all kinds of baby stuff, a crib. I think it was also like a high chair crib sheets that her family had like handmade for maybe one of her kids. They were oh you. And so it was just like, I don't know, it was really cool stuff that she brought. And I had come out of the dark world.

So I didn't really know regular people yet. I didn't know normal people. And did you even know what a nice person like Mandy would do for someone? I was like, what does she want? I bet. Guarded. Why are you, you know, like what are you really trying to do? Um, but, is your angle.

What's your angle? That's right. But, um, she was a Christian and like a good one, not one of the bad ones, but. Not one of the bad ones. Yeah. Which is. Well, outside looking in, like from a regular, like, I was not a part of church. I didn't know anything.

The good Christians were shiny. Like, they have like a glow about them. And the bad Christians? dull, like, cranky, hard. So you mean like the judgmental blue hairs. Yeah, yeah. That's what we're calling bad Christians. Yeah.

I would argue that's not Christian at all. Right. Well, mine's all just like a kid's perspective of like, good, bad, you know, I don't know. And so she showed up shiny and I was like, oh, wonderful. She showed up shiny, being bright with a smile. Yeah, she just had that. And genuine. Yeah.

You know that some of the shiny ones could be bad too now, right? Hey, why don't you shut up? Yeah. I won't throw a pen. Please do not forget. Are you on the after bill now? No, like, ignore Alex? No, just don't pass the birth 24 years of our life.

It's still in there. This is a litmus tech. It is still in there. Trust me. I know. I'm telling you, all that's still in there. Don't test it. You're right.

You'll find out. You will need to call somebody. It goes, oh, yes. Yes, you will. So she shows up. She shows up shiny, and she was good and real shiny. So you got to stuff, but what happened after? Well, so she came in my house, and she helped put this crib together because she came in pieces, first of all.

And so then I tell her everything that bad about me immediately. You start unloading about your past? Everything. Why? I don't know, because I'm about to figure out what's going on with this lady. I'm about to find out what her motive. Yeah, I got it. And I mean, I had like these black track marks of them down my arms.

You still do? Yeah, I do. No, you still did then when it bright and all that. They were black. Like, I had black marks that will never heal, never go away. Are those still tracks? Yes. Old tracks.

But now they're like blue. And this is like 13. I honestly didn't know if that was a tattoo you had that you got removed. It was a strap mark. And I have a scar from my car accident. And so it's kind of all blends in. Yeah, your arms look like hell. They look like hell.

They've been through it. The only time it was helpful was glad you. Whenever I was trying to get drugs from the cartel, it was came in very handy. They trusted me. But when I got a professional job at an oil and gas company and I had that, I went and got derma blend, which is like a makeup, tattoo, tattoo cover up. And every single morning, I'd have to derma blend my arms. All right. So. Okay, Mandy, comes to my house.

She has to put this script together. I tell her everything bad I ever did. And she is so welcoming. And so like, okay, yeah. Like, she's just so nice and accepting. Like, nothing I said could scare her. She was just so accepting. And so she invites me to church after that.

And it was like a life church or something that was closer to her house. And so I didn't end up staying at that church. But it was like the open door of like, oh, These are good people because I knew in my heart like good people and bad people. And now I had this kid and now I was sober. And now I was willing to build myself a life of good people. And she reminded me about the God that I had met at Teen Challenge. I'm going to be careful with this question.

Don't. It's, it's, it's, I want people to understand the question. Okay, thank you. Did you feel like you deserve, deserved anyone to actually be nice to you? It was based on my actions, no, but based on my intentions, yes. Like, I really meant it. Like, I was going to really do what I said.

Like, and I really... So you knew that you meant what you were saying, and you wanted that longing and acceptance, but you also cognitively knew. You had no reason. She had no one has any read. Like, look at this. Look at my rap sheet.

Look at the way I look. Look at all my stuff. So getting that rejection would not have hurt me. Like it wouldn't have. That was my question. Yeah. So rejection was so common. Yeah.

That was okay. Because I get it. I got it. I'm scary. And I, you know, there's a part of me that was like, I knew everything I did.

So in a way, I kind of did deserve it. Okay. I got to ask you something else before we go on. Okay. With mom and all this. She, that's a good question. So my mother works for DHS.

I know your dad's dead, but your mom's an attorney. My mom's an attorney, contract attorney. She has resources. For the Department of Human Services. For child welfare. Holy crap. What an irony. I did not know that.

Yes. So where is she? Her growing up, doing a lot of stuff with me, she's the one that puts me in all these facilities trying to get me help. Okay. So that I don't end up like her dad. So at some point she'd had it. At some point, it was like now I'm hanging out with that, like,

the most gang people, like people that just had like tattoos from here all the way down. And they literally, I would be walking down the street in the middle of day and they would just throw me in the trunk and drive off. Like dangerous people. And so my mother was, A, fed up with me and then be afraid for her own life. We didn't know who's this baby was that I was, that I had. We didn't know who's it belonged to. And so she was afraid because the police did call her when they took her, when they took my son. And she was too afraid to take him. Because she didn't know who was going to come get that kid. Now, after about, after some months, she ended up taking him.

But still. Yeah. It was a fear thing. So let's not villainize your mom here. No. No, she's, you earned. Oh, I earned it. I earned it.

I definitely earned it. And we have a good relationship now. So after years of addiction, you're finally stable. Hmm. And you're making money, what you're going to get to. in the oil and gas industry, and someone asked you to lead a nonprofit. Before we get to your reaction to someone say,

hey, you want to lead a nonprofit, how'd you get the job in the oil and gas industry? The Lord. That was the Lord. And I was working at a dry cleaner at the time when the executive director of Reemerge at the time came to me and she's like, hey, you know, one of our board members, he works at Tapstone Energy,

and he's, they're looking, you know, maybe there's an internship opportunity. And I was like, lady, I am making $9 an hour at a dry cleaner. I'm not giving up that plush job for your little internship. I need this nine. Yeah, I'm like, excuse me, do you not know? Jimmy, show you my $600 paychecks, okay? And so at first I was like, no, I'm not doing that.

And then so I met with the people over there and I got an opportunity that people like me don't get. You know, I got my tooth fixed by then. I had little strategies to make myself look presentable. And people thought that I was regular pretty quick. I was like, uh-oh, so I got to not talk is what the plan is. I got it not saying anything. But I started working there. And what's funny is I got into HR and was like running background checks that I could not pass myself.

And I helped them redo their drug and alcohol policy. I was an asset. Well, you knew it all. I knew it all. I'm like, no one even does that drug anymore. So now you got this job and you're making more than $9 an hour. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I started off at 12, baby. But the point was... We got you for cheap. But the point was you've got a home. You've got your kid. You're sober. Yes. You got a good job.

I had a great job. I mean, for the first time in your life, you're leading a semi-healthy experience. You probably are still carrying a lot of baggage. But. Well, and like trying to parent Mike, like, people think their reunification was like, oh, this is so great. I was healthy. He is healthy. But he was raised in foster care, basically.

He didn't know who I was and he did not like me. How old was he? Year and a half, ish. But he was like scowling at me all the time. And I'm like, I get that. That's a legit look. But I, it was like this parenting out of guilt. I had done all these bad things.

And so I really wanted him to like me. It's like if you have a split family and you, like, want the divorcees and how they treat you as a kid when you're around. Like, you're amazing. You want them to like you. And so it creates entitlement is what it did. And so he was like, I remember one day he was a toddler and he was just like bossing it around. He was like, give me a cup or get me of this. Like just the way he was talking to me.

And I just was like, what in the world is going on right now? Like I just came to. Who's the parent? Who? Like, what am I doing? you know, and I'm like, I am parenting out of guilt. I am letting you run all over me. Nope.

I'm regular mom now. And I am legally your mom now and there's no going back. I'm staying in this life. So we're about to bring down the hammer. And I had to learn how to parent like a regular parent and have boundaries and have him not like me. That's beautiful, though. That's great. It was great.

We'll be right back. Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggie? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit.

Visit bell.orgia for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

I started feeling that there. There was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsesives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his

motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're a alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. A shocking crime and a cover up at the highest levels of the United States Marine Corps. Someone opened the door and was the primary shooter. Is it possible you could do that and then suppress the memory? A new podcast series, Faultline Haditha, tells the story the United States government wants to keep buried. How can you not know? There were women and children in there. You're going to tell us here that you don't know what happened that day?

Based on thousands of pages of previously classified documents and over 100 hours of secretly filmed video, the truth about one of the most infamous crimes in Marine Corps history, can finally be told. If you've got five players and one of them is guilty of murder at least, and you offer immunity to the other four, you better be right about the fifth. Because if you're not, then you've just given immunity to your killer. Listen to Faultline Haditha on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So somebody comes to you and says, hey, you want to lead a nonprofit. During COVID. Yeah, so first of all, nonprofit. And that's got to be what hit your head. And then the rest of your action. What was that like? Well, what was even, what?

What? Yeah, I know. Yes. That's like really the story of my life. What? Yeah. Throughout all of this, I immediately was telling my story. Immediately was like advocating for the remarge and the Hope House and even Carat Portal,

all these places I would be connected with, you know, whatever I could do to help, I would. And so, of course, people were like, oh, you should work here. And I'm like, I don't want to be poor anymore. And so no, because nonprofit is not where you're going to go and be, you know, especially a single mom. Like I had a good career in HR at this point and wanted to help people, but was too afraid to do that financially to make the leap. And so the Gaylord Foundation in Oklahoma gave a million dollars to launch the Center

for social innovation program at Oklahoma State University. It had never been done before. It was the first in the nation initiative. Marrying the sort of programs like Remerge and their demographic to higher ed. They have, you know, higher ed has programs for previously incarcerated people. They have like scholarships and things. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about I had them all day, every day and held them extremely accountable.

like you was a lot of accountability. There was like day in and day out, just relational stuff. It was all about building a culture because what happened for me is I started working at an oil and gas company and that culture, I rose to the culture. We're always going to rise to the culture.

What I've seen with organizations that help people like me, like felons or drug addicts or even people that have domestic violence backgrounds or trauma, Like there's a certain culture that's acceptable. And because we're trying to like really support them. Yeah.

And we want to be real soft with them. We kind of let them be the character is not there. And I just don't think that's acceptable. You know? And so when I got into a culture that rose the standard for me, then I could rise to that standard because I always had it in me. I just never had the opportunity. And so what I believed was that if we can give people a higher standard and a better opportunity in a culture that keeps them accountable to that standard, integrity, humility, excellence, that people can rise.

People are capable of more if just given the opportunity. And so that really piqued my interest. And so I started as a senior director in August of 2020, right in the middle of COVID. It was bananas. Because these people had not been screened at all. Ford didn't have a GED. They didn't know how to use computers. It was.

How do you do online? Yeah, all the professors are gone. Like, well, we had gotten them all laptops, but it was like... Yeah. Teem, teen, ting, ting, ting, ting. Columbus. Oh, my gosh. Pick one and land on it.

We had a student named Brad that was like, he was one of the ones that didn't have a GED, super country. Every single time he would get frustrated in class, he would go, I don't know, man, I just want my GED. And he'd throw his hat down, storm out. Brad. What was so funny is he had this giant pickup, like, it was like an S-U-G. truck that was just real old and white. And it was like this body style that was just older, but it was always broken down. It was always stuck somewhere and broken down out of gas. Something's wrong with it. Like he was the best. He was the character.

He was the best. But all my students are like every day, people are relapsing on drugs. It was, it was crazy. But it was also so beautiful and wonderful. So tell us about like the cohorts. Is that tell us about that. Yeah. So eventually we sort of evolved into how we did it. So people would apply for the program. We'd get a couple hundred applicants a year.

I would do 100 and 100 plus interviews in person in about one month. So back to back to back all day. And select between 30 and 40. Then I'd select a cohort. Men and women, all different ages. The only common sort of thread being that they have overcome. a social barrier. So we had some people who were seeking asylum from other countries. We had people who had aged out of foster care, women who had come from the domestic violence shelter,

and then of course previously incarcerated people who were covering from addiction and things like that. And so we had the plethora, all different kinds, which I loved because there were so much that someone who was 18 could learn from someone who was 60, and a man can learn from a woman. and like just the just the diversity of the group. We'd have like a guy with a missing arm. And then there was a girl that was like a princess in another country. Like it was wild.

It was so wonderful. I loved it. And so all those little hooligans would come together at the start of the school year. And I'd have them Monday through Thursday from 8 to 4, basically. And we would do a lot of stuff about identity. Who am I? You know? And what do I want to do?

with my life. What needs to change? If they need a dental stuff, I really cared about that. All these nonprofits will help you. I felt it. And like cosmetic stuff. I don't mean pull a tooth. That was all anyone would do is pull a tooth. I wanted like, oh, you need something cosmetic. So you can get the opportunity. If I had not had that, I would not have gotten hired. I can assure you. And so I looked at it from my own perspective. We got. Yeah, snagled tooth. The track marks doesn't do well in human resources technically. You know, we don't want people to think meth. we just want, we don't want any thought. We don't want any narrative to get in the way.

But they got reunified with their kids. We'd help them get housing. We'd help them get vehicles. One of the things I read is after completing this stuff, I mean, people are earning. Oh, my. So the average income of students we accepted was 10,000 a year or less. 10,000 a year. Or less.

I mean, most of them had nothing. They were on TANF, temporary assistance for needy families. So they got a check for $500 a month, food stamps. So if they had multiple kids, you could be getting $800 in food stamps with multiple kids. Then you're on Section 8. Then you're on sooner care. Medicare. Section 8 is government.

Housing. Then you've got the Medicaid child care assistance. Which is basically your institutionalized. All of it. You are reliant on that money. The paternalistic influence in your life is the government. That's who's paying. And if you don't have it,

Yeah. Yes. Which is no way to live. It's no way to live because it's impossible to get out of. Right. That's so much money that you're actually getting in benefits that you will. You honestly, you probably, most of those students would never even make that same amount ever. Yeah.

So why even take a chance? That's right. But the problem is that sustenance less just barely to keep you breathing and for eternity. And it puts you in a culture. What do you think that DHS office is like? what do you think Section 8 housing is life? It's a culture. And so it's just like that the culture is the thing that makes things to me generational more than even just the end-icators. I could not agree with you more. Yeah. So that's what you get. And what do you get when go ahead. So they came in making $10,000 or less. They would graduate our program after 10 months making $38,000 a year. No benefits.

Off all that. Yes. Radical. So anyways, I wanted to. That's awesome. Link that background. Yeah. They didn't have a degree yet. This is just after a couple of semesters of being with us. I was laughing at all that crap is so politically inappropriate. You just said, Bill, I'm debating my mind.

Should we keep that in the social media clip? Don't cut it. Yeah. It is. I mean, I'm not supposed to give many narratives on this because this is your story, but I'm going to share this with you where I learned the depth of it. We've featured this on the podcast before with Sam. I'm just, I don't care. She wasn't there. We're having a conversation. You sit. Well, now I want to know who's name is. Would you please tell

him? Okay. Don't just shut up. I'm more scared of him, so I'm going to tell you to show up. Hush. Real quickly. I'm not going to tell you the whole story, but I had an employee that I got really, really close to, and he's passed away now, which every time I say that I choke up, because I love the man who had all the background and got his life straight and moved in with a woman and her three children and became their father and was doing everything right and rose to a manager in my company and called her his wife but never got married and I finally once just fed up and straight up man talk said boy I want you know I don't understand brother why won't you just and he said because if I'm married her, she loses Section 8 and food stamps, and we can't afford for it.

Yep. And that is when I went down the rabbit hole 20 years ago of trying to understand that world, and it literally means that to a culture of people in the United States, the government is the most paternalistic thing there is, because they, if the definition of paternalism is, I have to depend on you, potter, the Latin for, father, paternalism is you have to rely on this benevolent father for your existence and your sustenance. And if the government is providing all this, you are now mired in this muck of paternalism that you don't dare get out of because if you do try to get out of and you

lose it, now you're really screwed. So there is no out. And so when I read all this and was thinking about these folks in this culture coming to you and then only 10 months later off all that and making 37,000 you're on average and more and starting their life, I think that's amazing because it breaks the generational paternalistic culture that keeps people, quote, in their place. That's how I feel about it. Is that what you experienced? That's powerful. I mean, even just having that perspective.

of the paternal aspect of it. Like, this is who's taking care of you. And everything that I... Who's your God? Yeah. I, yeah. It's an idol. It's idle.

Because, and that's even true than what we're saying here, because then everything I do, whether it's advocating for things or trying to push things forward or the things I talk about are all to keep that stuff going. everything that I am going to care about and support, and I think is right, is going to actually push all that step forward so that I can keep getting more. Which keeps me down. Which is actually the painful thing was when I got arrested and have my kid taken away. That was what needed to happen, though. That was, and like, that's what we don't want.

We're trying to avoid that painful, like, just thing of getting out of. And so we try to, like, perpetrate or, you know, keep things going. and it's, it actually keeps us stuck there. You're right. Give me an example of, or just tell me this story with regard to this work or Brandy Hopkins. Oh, yeah. Brandy. I would say that she had just gotten out of prison.

She was rough, too. Oh, my gosh. And she'll tell you that. She's like me. Very direct. hilarious. I love her. But she was straight out of prison and had never had a job, had never, had nothing, had all the things of nothing.

And she went through the program. And I mean, this was years ago. This was like four years ago. And now she's making a ton of money at a brand new job. She just like had posted it the other day on Facebook. Like, oh my gosh, I'm making more money than ever. Like it just shows that it wasn't a temporary fix. And they didn't need support forever.

It could been, you know, people are able to. When you empower people, then they can do it themselves. And that's what she was able to do. One of the most transformative relationships in your life is Ryan. Yeah. Your husband. I like him. You like him?

I do like him. Is that what you just said? I like him. I like him. Oh, Ryan, you're so lucky. Your wife is in deep like. I'll like you forever. Listen, my person is Lisa.

Okay. All right. So. You like her? I really like her. Not only do I love her, not only is my mother, my children, everything. She's my person. So I get it when you say you like him.

But tell us what he's meant to you. Yeah. Well. Tell us how you met. Yeah. And then what he's meant to you. So I met him through a mutual friend who kind of set us up on a sort of blind date. But I met him, we have both been going to the same church.

So we already kind of knew who the other person was. And you're doing the nonprofit. You're doing... By then I was still in oil and gas. I hadn't even done C-O-S yet. Okay. Sorry. Yeah.

Okay. Go ahead. But we started dating and it was like, we got along so well that I was like, I think he's more of a friend. I don't know. You know, I had journal. I was dating people. I was going on.

You put Ryan in the friend zone? I did. Yeah. And I had like... And you just told me how much you like it. I did. Well, he had to earn it. I love it.

It just makes it more special, you know, because I wasn't sure at first. And then, because we just got along too, our jokes were the same. I mean, I've just never had that before. I'm like usually with people way opposite of me, you know. And I thought that was the right thing. But this guy, homeschooled. He's a homeschooled kid, one of six children, homeschooled. And then went to Bible College where he played soccer and then ended up coaching soccer.

Like the most wholesome sweet, you know. What a baby angel. I just wanted, jeep-ee. Bible college. Yeah. I am certain when his family sent him off to Bible college, they were like, now go find a former meth addict heroin, track-ridden woman to marry. I'm sure his parents were.

That's what you're looking for, Rhino. Yeah. Go find that. That's actually what they would call him right now. Yeah, why not? That's right. Yeah. And so we met at church.

He plays the drums at the church. church, but he does like real estate now. And we started dating and I was like, oh my gosh. But like, he loves Jesus, but he also like said the F word. I was like, oh, perfect. Yeah. Yeah, perfect. And that was what I was like, okay. Oh, yeah, I like you. And so he was just, he's just been wonderful. And like Chris Campbell, who you guys had on will cry on a dime. Yes. Okay, my husband is like that. where like if someone he respects thinks about crying he's immediately like this man that is just tears and he'll try and oh and i think it's so beautiful because we live in a world that the value more than anything

is to be unaffected like that's what we want what we're all trying to be as unaffected by things as we can and so to see someone who allowed themselves to be um against all the narratives and odds was very pure to me. And I had just, I've just been through too much. He's also the antithesis of every kind of man you'd been around. I bet that was quite unique and exciting and interesting because when you're surrounded by hard at drug dealers and all these other people, I bet he was really unique. Oh my gosh, this poor man.

And like, he was like never going to have kids. He, you know, he wasn't like going to have kids. He was older, like, older for something. when we met later. He was. He is currently your husband. Yeah, we did get married, yeah. But, like, he was, like, 32 or something.

And, like, most people from his life settled down when they're, like, 20. And so it was, like, we kind of met when we were, like, older. And so, and I already had a kid. And I had all this stuff, this juicy stuff to bring to the table. It's more than baggage. It's like. I had a baby daddy. And you had a baby daddy and everything else.

And felonies. So there's some limitations to things you can do with people that have felonies. Not that, you know, we aren't gun people necessarily. I probably, anyways. So we started dating and I, he fell in love with me. We fell in love with each other and got married and got married during COVID the same year that started CIVA. But he's been a huge cheerleader for me. His parent, his mom is like so wholesome.

dad is an engineer. My biggest concern was like, what is his mother going to do? I'll swear to you. My next question was, shout out to Charlotta. What was Thanksgiving like when he brought you home or whatever day it was? Oh, my goodness. You know what is so wild is that his mother had actually gone to an event that I spoke at before we had started dating.

No kidding. She already knew who I was and she already knew what my story was. But his parents were believers. And so, um, they believed, you know, obviously in God and on all of that. And I think they just saw the transformation of my story and the redemption. And so I think just on paper, they would have been like, but because they kind of already had a heart for, you know, the Lord, that it was like, okay. And she probably just knew I was what's best for him.

What does the church get wrong about relationships that you've seen and what does it get right? Oh, that they need no intervention, that they will just happen. Everyone, especially church leaders, no offense. They think that they're just going to put on a great event. Or too bad if it's offensive, if it's true. Yeah, they're going to put on an event and they're going to say some real cool stuff. And they're really into it because it's their thing that they're doing. And why isn't anyone showing up?

why is community not just be happening? And, you know, I think there's just a lot of that where people think just organically, the community is going to happen. But it doesn't. Not in this world anymore. The world that I grew up on, grew up in was like independence was the prize. That was the goal is I'm going to take care of me. I can do for myself.

I don't need you. I don't need anyone. Even if you're my own family, I don't need you. Like we put ourselves in this vacuum. Which is a lot, of course. It's a lie. But it is a cultural lie that young people tell themselves. Well, and all the songs growing up were like, like,

independent, misindependent, and then there's an I-N-D-E-P. Yeah. Like, all these songs were about like independents and how cool that is, and you had Destiny's Child. I mean, come on. You know? Like, there was just so many things about being, like, strong people and independent.

And so we cut everyone off. We turned boundaries into brick walls and we cut people off. We don't even know how to show up. Because showing up for someone else means I'm not getting something out of this. You know, and we don't know how to do things anymore that we're not getting something out of. What do you think the church gets right? Like if they love Jesus, that's right. Like love does a lot.

And when they, like Mandy, when people, when church, when I say it this way, people who have the Holy Spirit in them, like they're the church, really. But when they show up in love, they're the church. They're the church. That thing that we go sit in is called a church building. Yeah. It's we. congregation. It's a convening. It's an event. That is an event. And when people show up in love, it like people can feel it and it changes things. It changes how people can show up when people are

loved well. And so they get that really, like when they have really good hospitality and they are accepting of people. But I'd say like when I first came to church, I didn't know what to talk about because all my stories were about prison and drugs and scary stuff. And everyone was like, oh, because I would say them, you know, and people were scared of me kind of. So I think that there's just more to building community in today's world that we need to learn how to do. And it's not like, it's what I call in-between time. There's, you know, the time that's cushioned around when we actually have a task to do, that's when people make friends. And we don't have that.

We stack our schedules. I'm doing this. And I bet you're doing something after this. And then I'm like, when am I actually going to go and just stand around? someone else. And it's like for some reason, that is like true connection that we don't have anymore. We'll be right back. Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're

done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $4 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. If your bookshelf and your for-you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week, We're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the Iheart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice

next to my ear saying shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can see. say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you

push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So, So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A shocking crime and a cover-up at the highest levels of the United States Marine Corps. Someone opened the door and was the primary shooter. Is it possible you could do that and then suppress the memory? A new podcast series, Faultline Haditha, tells the story the United States government wants to keep buried. How can you not know?

There were women and children in there. You're going to tell us here that you don't know what happened that day? Based on thousands of pages of previously classified documents and over 100 hours of secretly filmed video, the truth about one of the most infamous crimes in Marine Corps history can finally be told. If you've got five players and one of them is guilty of murder at least, and you offer immunity to the other four,

you better be right about the fifth. Because if you're not, then you've just given immunity to your... color. Listen to Faultline Haditha on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You say the opposite of addiction is connection. It's connection, yeah. I get the importance of connection. I love what you're saying about love and redemption. I love what you say about Ryan's vulnerability and how that strikes you and his empathy and all of that in connection. But I find it interesting that you're calling connection the opposite of addiction. How is that?

What do you mean by that? Well, and there's a guy I can't think of his name that has a really good TED talk about it, where he just kind of presents the idea. But when we are, you know, addicted to something, we're trying to, there's some sort of purposelessness. There's something that we're not getting. Even when I started doing drugs, like I was unseen and I was unloved. So how can I be okay with that?

feeling like how can I what sort of feeling of it's almost like when you do drugs it feels like a sort of comfort which is what connection is supposed to do like there's there's intimacy related and connection you're saying drugs replaces connections it replaces a lot because then i i'm sort of numb to that part of me that's screaming for someone else i can just do that myself i don't need you I can be, especially, you know, people on drugs, like hide in a house for a month or whatever. You never see them. But when you are in connection. Alcoholics, too.

Alcoholics, too. And that is sneakier. That's much sneakier. Because they're not, like, taking apart a generator. You know what I mean? They can get up and go to work and do something. And then, you know, that one's sneakier. I've always been a little bit.

Just had a different kind of compassion for people who are. were alcoholics because it's everywhere. We've done a lot on foster care, okay? But from your perspective, when a child enters foster care, it can be easy to see the biological parent as the bad guy. What are foster parents and people who have a heart for foster kids need to understand from your perspective about that bad guy parent typically? Yeah.

I mean, I would say they know that they're the bad guy, but they think you're the bad guy. You know, it's like everyone thinks that the other person's the enemy. And then both of those people think that the state is the enemy. Like the DHS, like sort of involvement is the enemy. And so everyone's like, everyone in that position is trying to do the right thing. That's what we're missing. Like, I'm coming here with my whole heart for this kid. You're coming here with your whole heart for this kid.

The state, child welfare, like they're coming. People get into that work because they're coming with. whole heart for kids. And we're not the enemy. You know, we were our own enemy. The biopparents, I'm the enemy. I know I'm the bad guy. I'm my own worst enemy.

But I think that that bioparent can just offer some of the most redemptive relational support that anyone could. Addiction is can get passed down. Do you worry about that for your own children? Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes, I do. However, my kids are, I'm super connected to my kids.

Like about a year ago, I put my kid, I pulled him out of a great school, fantastic school, but he's like in a homeschool co-op. And so I'm around him all the time, which at first I was like, gosh. Do you helicopter? No, no, no, no. Connected, I'm just connected. But not helicopter. Like, I think that. It's a fine line.

It's a fine line. We think that systems and other people are supposed to raise our kids. that they'll learn about Jesus from church and they'll learn about education from school. And I'm like, well, really, who's the best person? It's me. It's me. Even if I'm kind of wrong about some things,

it's like, and so to kind of treat him more as like an apprentice in my life as opposed to, you know, relying on systems, but we're very close. We're very connected. You got a book coming out. I have a book. Divine authenticity.

Yeah. Give us a synopsis or a theme. Yes. It's like I recently read a book by John Mark Comer called Practicing the Way. And I like to say it's like that book, if John Mark had smoked meth and gone to prison. The goal. What is this guy? Is he a theologian or something?

He's like a pastor. Yeah, he's a pastor. He's just like that. Just like that. Except. I hope he's not bad. Have you tried to get a testimonial for your book? Yeah.

Is that? Amazing. hilarious. But what is that? Where it's talking about authentic faith, discipleship. How do I, you know, even in my own store, I didn't know how to bring God with me. And so when I went into the world, God went away. And it's how to bring God with me in my work, in my life.

How do I approach things like prayer or community? I talk about trying to figure out how to decide what I'm going to say or how do I raise my hands in church because it's so awkward. Like there's so many things to overcome that even if you didn't have a story like mine, like people that never did drugs, everyone's trying to figure out how to have authentic faith. When's it out? How do we get it? Mid-September. And you're going to send me one? Yeah. And how are people going to find it?

Amazon. Yeah. It's on Amazon. Yeah. something else you said that just made me die laughing. You're pregnant with your third. Yes, and I never thought I'd be the kind of person to have kids on purpose. And so here we are.

This will be my second kid on purpose. And I'm not trying to harp on any other way. I have done it all the ways. I didn't even know who the dad was the first time. But so this time, I'm like, I'm two out of three on purpose. Baby. Y'all planned it, huh? No, I mean, I had a crud of bed.

All right, how old's goose? Goose is 11. And your next child? I have an 11-year-old, a 3-year-old. How old is a 3-year-old? This is Ryan's child. That's Ryan. Everest.

We know who the baby daddy is. I know who he is. Yeah. Health insurance. Oh, gosh, Everest. Yeah, Everest. And so two boys. Two boys. And you're about five, six months pregnant.

Yeah. So around November 1. We'll have a third boy. And I am trying to think the calmest, most unhyper thoughts. I can think this whole pregnancy. And what is his name going to be? I think we like the name Atlas. Alex?

Atlas. Atlas. Yes, as in shrugged. Atlas shrugged. Oh, God. It's a book you should read. It's a book you should read. Atlas shrugged holding up the world.

Yes. Okay. Or even outside of the book, if you go to like, I think it's right in front of Rockefeller Center. in New York City, it's the big statue of Atlas. Hold on a lot of people. If you're going to name your child Atlas, you really need to check out Atlas Shrug,

so you understand his namesake. Yes. Well, and it's actually a very interesting thing. Well, it's not enduring, you know, and about strength. It's actually very interesting that you would want to name them, Atlas when you read out of it. You'll be like, wow, that's weird. Hey, I love reading.

So, yay. So our Army and Normal folks who's watching and listening to us right now, what would you tell them from your perspective about service that they really need to hear? I think that, you know, I've had a lot of opportunities in programs, you know, whether that's the remer or even Habitat for Humanity. I've gotten a Habitat House before. I mean, I've had all these programs. There's so many ways that people can get involved with nonprofits, foster care, care portal, things like that. but I would say that the most important,

it's going to sound so cheesy, but the most important thing is love. You know, and if we don't learn to love. Really not cheesy. I mean, you can do anything in love. You can go, you can be love. And be that to your own kids. You know, don't try to go out into the world

and do all this nonprofit stuff and then be a jerk at home. You're canceling it out. God is not happy with that. So I would say that the most important thing is to be love. I mean, from a standpoint, point of service, not starting a big 501C3, or any just showing up where you can in your world,

how important was Mandy? Yeah. And to be accepted, because that's what love felt like to me. I think we need to look at what does love feel like to this person and not just show up thinking we already know what the answer is. But for her in that moment, it was, she accepted me, she helped me. She was generous with her time and resources. Like, that's what love felt like in that season.

Actually, the only thing I want to add on, Bill, is can you just tell us the progression of your guys' relationship over time that it didn't end at that point? Yeah, Mandy came and brought me the Care Portal request items, which was wonderful. And then she invited me to church, and I didn't end up staying at that church. But it opened the door for me to start going. And so we have been friends ever since. And even when I was working with CFSI, that's how I ran into Chris at Care Portal again. It's because I was looking for partnerships.

And that's how I ran into Mandy again because she was working for DHS. And so it was just wild to get all the... that help and to be a recipient of it and then meet run into these people incidentally. I was like, wait a second. Hey, Care Portal. That sounds so familiar what you guys do because 10 years ago I had this and Chris cried, of course, immediately. You know, it was just beautiful.

You're an on purpose two out of three mother. Yeah. Who's beat heroin who had a crazy situation for 24 years growing up, who's been in and out of everything, who got an oil and gas job, all of the story we've just heard, what is the most important thing to you about all this redemption for you? Yeah. I mean, it's miles above anything else,

and it is knowing God for myself, like learning how to love him and actually fall in love with him and not just go to church. but like fall in love with God and to know him and take him with me in my life. That has changed everything. The programs and all these things, like they gave me stuff, they gave me a place, they gave me time that I didn't have. But if I would not have met with God there, I would not look that different than that life

that I had before. That is the agent. Like that's the X factor right there is the presence of God. Which is the authenticity of divinity. Yeah. thus the book. Yeah. Can't wait to read it.

Thank you for coming to Memphis. Thank you. And thank you for telling your story and being so painfully honest about your story. That's actually, that's what makes this so fun is when we can talk real with people and the realness gives us the authenticity of the story. Can't wait to see what you do next and great luck with the book. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for joining us this week. If Ariel Moore has inspired you in general, or better yet to take action, by becoming the transformative relationship for someone else, getting involved with Care Portal, a second chance ministry, or something else entirely, let me know about it. I really do want to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks.us, and I'll respond.

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to the podcast, wherever you're watching or listening to it now. Rate and review it. Join the army at normalfolks.org. Join or start one of our local service clubs. Take the 10-level challenge and buy our merch, any and all of these things that will help us grow. An Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney.

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