An Army of Normal Folks - What Happens When a Country Stops Living Together

Episode Date: March 20, 2026

Charles Murray’s book Coming Apart revealed a hard truth: we stopped living with people who aren’t exactly like us. This Shop Talk looks at the destruction it birthed and how proximity can bring us back together again.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an Army and normal folks. Welcome to the shop. Oh, look, Alex just walked in. Yeah, and I remembered the equipment this time. Yeah, it's so nice to know that we have equipment. How are you? I'm good. It just broke up with a girl last night, so that was fun. That was wonderful. It was not fun.

You seemed tore up about it. Yeah, a little torn up about it, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're grinning from ear to ear and laughing. So I guess you're just destroyed over this. Actually, what are we? This will come out Friday. Yeah. It's actually Bose.

Wait, no, Bo's episode is today's. We're recording this. So he talks about getting a thousand nose and then 10,000 nose to get some yeses. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like that's dating. I think that probably is dating. You've got to go through a lot to find the right one. Hope she doesn't listen to this episode.

I don't think she is a listener. I'm so glad that Lisa hasn't left me because I don't know how I would do the dating thing. Do you remember Tiani? I cite this line a lot when she, Tiani Shoemaker Clyde from Little Miracles. Yeah. Probably like episode five or six. And she said, when my husband and I are fighting, I tell him, do you really want to go back to Tinder? Yeah.

It's like super dark over there. It's really bad. Well, I guess you're back. I'm back. I'm available. Yeah, anybody listening now that was a really kind, hardworking, successful guy with four beautiful children who lives in North Mississippi, if that is moderately interesting to you, you can email me anytime at bill at normalfolks. And I will respond on behalf of my buddy, Alec. Rather than the service concierge, you'll be the dating concierge.

Yeah, I'm going to be Bill the matchmaker for Alex. Oh, my gosh. I'm a scrucibly's life up. All right, everybody, shop talk 96. Oddly, coming apart. Wait, number 96 is first. 96, yeah. Do you know any?

Let's see, no. Cortez Kennedy. Yeah, that's right. That's pretty much it. That's it. Yeah. 96 is just a, just, I did, 96. Yeah, I don't know any 96s.

Keep going, coming apart. Besides Alex's life, there's a serious topic. I was just going to say, I think my great, great grandmother was 96 when I was born because at one time I was a fifth living generation and she made it like 102. Wow. So there's a 96 for you. Okay. The title of ShopTot number 96 is coming apart or how Belmont and Fishtown became two different communities. We'll dive into that right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors.

Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know Think Spring podcast playlist is available now. Whether spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the stuff you should know, think spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the stuff you should know think spring playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl.

You may know me from my It Girl series I've done on the streets of New York over the years. Well, I've got good news. I am bringing those interviews and many more to this podcast. Yes, we will talk about the style and the style. success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work with the women's shaping culture right now. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard and you have to push the narrative in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent

ninja. Each week, I have unfiltered conversations with female founders, creatives, and leaders to talk about ambition, visibility, and what it really takes to build something meaningful in the public eye. Because being an it girl isn't about the spotlight, it's about owning it. I think the negatives need to be discussed and they need to be told

to people who maybe don't do this every day just so they know what's really going on. I feel like pulling the curtain back is important. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.

This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpbright became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified Tremaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Germain was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity.

The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people. knew the truth until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain. It's about engineering consciousness.

Mind games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake dog. doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work. This is wild. Listen to mind games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Segregation and the day integration at night.

When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here.

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's Place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now, listen to Charlie's Place on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the shop. Single Alex is in the shop right now, licking his wounds from his terrible breakup that happened less than 24 hours ago, which he's just so torn up about.

All you're doing is giggling. Sadly, I'm kind of used to this by now. Just remember, email me anytime at bill at normalfocs. If you have any interest in Alex yourself or would like to fix them up with somebody, you would... All right, let's move on. Okay. Coming apart, or how Belmont or Fishtown

became two different Americas. All right, let me tell you about two communities. Belmont and Fishtown. Now, let me be clear up front. These are not real towns. Their name's Charles Murray. gave to composite communities in his book, Coming Apart. He took real national data, and he built two representative communities

to help us see what actually happened in America between 1960 and 2010. So the names are symbolic, but the data is real. Belmont represents the college-educated upper middle class. Fishtown represents the white working class. I think that's really interesting. I honestly think there's a few. Fishtown outside of Baltimore or Boston. I remember as soon as you said this, I think he kind of mentioned that in the book.

Does he? Yeah. Yeah. But these are just like composite actors, you know, where a composite character. Yeah, it's the same idea. This is real data. The data is real, but he's not putting it on a current city. It's just fictitiously coming up to cities.

But I'm telling you, Fishtown, there's an East Coast major city that's got a fish down in it. I will look it up for you, Bill, but keep going. All right. So here we go. Oh, a neighborhood in Philly. There you go. I was off, but Philly. There you go. All right. So Belmont, again, represents the college-educated white-upor, I shouldn't have said white, but college-educated upper middle-class. Fishtown represents the white working class. Actually, what's interesting is he did this whole thing, only white, to keep race out of it. I love it. All of the research. So it was right. Belmont represents the college-educated white, upper-middle-class. Fishtown represents the white working class.

Real data, fictitious cities. Okay, here's what Murray shows using actual data. In 1960, in both Belmont and Fishtown, about 85 to 90 percent of adults, ages 30 to 49, were married. They look almost the same. Fast forward to 2010, in Belmont, still 80 percent married. In Fishtown, under 50. Nearly cut in half. Same country, different outcomes.

Now, let's look at children. born outside marriage. Among working-class white women, non-marital birth rates rose from about 6% in 1960 to over 40 in 2010. And remember, this is white working class and white upper-middle class. That's not a minor shift.

That's, yeah, it's structural change. So let's talk work. by late 2000s in fish town-type communities, about one in five prime age men 30 to 49 were not working. Not temporary unemployed, not looking between jobs, just not working at all. In Belmont, workforce attachment remained high. Same country, different habits. Now, let's look at church and civic life. Murray shows that in Belmont, church attendance declined modestly, civic-enged.

remained actively stable. In Fishtown, church attendants dropped sharply, civic participation fell dramatically, and as a result, social trust declined. And remember, this isn't Murray's opinion. This is 50 years of trend lines. So here is the uncomfortable conclusion. The upper middle class largely kept their behaviors that produced stability, marriage, work, religious participation, and civic involvement. Meanwhile, working-class communities lost those habits at much higher rates. And here's another deep problem that Murray identifies. It wasn't just these habits diverged. It's that Belmont and Fishtown increasingly stopped living near each other.

Highly educated Americans became clustering together geographically. Working-class Americans did the same. Marriage became more assort of people were marrying within their educational class at much higher rates. Churches became stratified. Schools became stratified. Neighborhoods stratified. Different zip codes, different schools,

different churches, different social circles, no shared life, no modeling. Culture does not transfer through speeches. It transfers through proximity. You learn how to stay marriage by seeing marriages up close at work. You learn how to work by watching men and women go to work. You learn how to serve by watching people serve.

What then proximity disappears, a country doesn't just disagree, it comes apart. Now here's where the Army steps in. We are not here to shame Fishtown, and probably, more importantly, we're not here to idolize Belmont. We're here to rebuild shared habits. When Army members start local service clubs, we're not passing legislation, we're rebuilding social muscle memory, showing up, serving together, eating together, working together. A giving circle teaches everyone contributes, everyone votes, everyone's voice matters.

Army activations teach work as normal. Responsibility is normal. Helping is normal. It's what normal people do. Potluck say, you still belong here, all of us. Belmont and Fishtown became different Americas, but a local service club, that's where they can overlap again. That's where proximity comes back. That's where habits get passed down.

That's how a country that came apart starts coming back together. That's good stuff. And I think I'm going to say it one more time to emphasize this. So many times we think of rule and, or suburban life and inner city life as just two different worlds. And oftentimes we relate urban and inner city life to black and brown culture and rule and suburban life to a wider culture. Well, these data destroy absolutely break the glass. surrounding that inaccurate narrative because all of this data is about white working and white upper middle class.

It ignores race and that is so healthy to understand that we have this predisposition to think so much of what's going on is a racial issue and it's not. It's a socioeconomic and social issue regardless of skin color. It's a very uniquely American issue. And we oftentimes, when discussing these type of things, like to throw race in the mix, and this obliterates that narrative. I think it's really important. And he wrote this book probably 15, 20 years ago. So maybe things have gotten worse, or at least other dynamics of like the loneliness epidemic.

I would think it definitely gotten worse. Yeah. Because we've gotten more polarized. And I mean, what I mean by that is the demographics that stay married and stay educated have continued to migrate toward one another, where a lot of the dysfunction in our society continues to migrate toward it. Because it was interesting what he said. It's so true if you think about it. When upper middle and upper class people date and marry, it further consequences.

it further concentrates that world into its subset. And when people in more difficult circumstances continue to date and have children and do whatever it is they do, it further populates them into their own area. He actually reflects on the book about his personal experience, like he grew up in a manufacturing town in Iowa.

And it would be like the CEO would be living in the same neighborhood, is one of the workers, and they drive similar cars, and their kids are getting married, but now the CEO's kid goes to Princeton and marries another kid from Princeton. It's exactly it. Yeah, just for everybody know,

I live seven miles from my plant, dead in the middle of Memphis. Just throw that out there. So that I don't sound like a complete hypocrite here. I do. I don't live in the suburbs. We thought that was not what we wanted for our kids. We wanted their experience to be different.

On that point, and this is probably a stupid aside, but there's an athlete guy in Memphis who spent some time in Oxford. I was talking to him about our service clubs. And he's like, oh, where's your kickoff? I'm like, I told him, it's Grine City. They were, and he's like, I don't go downtown. See, that's what I'm saying.

And this guy's a Christian. I'm like, God doesn't want you living in fear. What the heck are you doing, man? Well, you're old. You're old anyway. You're like 75. Who cares if you go now? Come on.

Let's get a little salty today. be the breakup. I'm always salty. You know that. So here it is, guys. From... Actually, one of his interesting points where you pull up is... I hope I say this well.

One of his conclusions is Belmont, or like the upper class now, is afraid of preaching their values to the rest of America. So they don't want to say, like, hey, go get married, get an education. Because it sounds paternalistic. Yes, but it's like if you actually cared about people, you would share this with people too. You're just like keeping it to yourselves and your kids. Like that's not actually caring for other people.

Very interesting. Coming apart, something we're trying to keep from happening with an army of normal folks, with our work, with our story, with our storytelling, and now with our service clubs. Highly suggest you pick up a copy of coming apart. and check all our data and let your mind run wild with what's actually happened around us and how easy the answers are. Join the service clubs. Share. Serve together. Eat together. Work together. Join the giving circle. Contribute, vote. Make sure your voice matters. And understand that work is normal.

responsibility is normal, helping is normal. The more we normalize the things that we're trying to talk about here, the better off our society is. So that's it. Shop Talk Number 96 coming apart, how Belmont Fishtown became two different communities and what an army of normal folks is trying to do through its work with service clubs and all the other stuff we're doing to stop this degradation of our society

and to make life better for all of us. Anything else, Alex? That's it. Let's roll, baby. All right. Thanks for joining the shop. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social,

rate and review it. Join the Army at normalfokes. Us. Subscribe to the podcast. Join a social club. Service club. Service club in one of the cities we've got. And, you know,

wake to their kids, phone the neighbors, tell them about us. All right, that's it. Shop top number 96. We'll see you next week. Hey there, this is Josh from Stuff You Should Know with a message that could change your life. The Stuff You Should Know Think Spring podcast playlist is available now.

Whether Spring has sprung in your neck of the woods yet or not, the stuff you should know Think Spring playlist will make you want to get your overalls on, get outside, and get your hands in the dirt. You can get the Stuff You should know Think Spring playlist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women's shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success,

but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are in your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.

This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you can control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused. Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games. A new podcast Explore.

exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules. Segregation and today integration at night. It was like stepping on another world. Was he a businessman? A criminal.

A hero. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush you. Charlie's Place, from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's Place on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.