An Army of Normal Folks - What Kids Said About How to Get Them Off Their Phones

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

For Shop Talk, we bring you fascinating data and wisdom from the righteous troublemakers known as Jonathan Haidt, Lenore Skenazy, and Zach Rausch. Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody. It's Bill Courtney. Welcome to the shop. Hi, Alex. Hey, Bill. Let's get into it this time. We don't have much time. What do we want to get into? The shop talk. Well, no, we got to talk about the shop. Oh, man. I mean, I'm going to give you an extra two minutes to talk about the shop.

Shop talk number 77. What's the number? Oh, O.C. Brown from Undefeated. Oh, really? Number 77, OC. Nice. There's something. If it wasn't for OC, your life might have been different. What's that?

It's actually interesting to think about it that way. If it wasn't for O.C., your life might have been different. And for a lot of kids my life, you and I would know each other. Yeah, pretty crazy. That's it. All right. In the Atlantic, what kids told us about how to get them off their phones. Children who were raised on screens need more freedom out in the real world by, I don't know.

Lenore Skanezzi. Lenore Skenezy? Lenore Skenezy. Yeah, and Jonathan Haidt, and then what's the last guy's name? I don't know, Zach Rosh? Okay, yeah, or Roush, probably, but yeah, keep going. All right, so here's the deal, everybody. I already love this because...

Just read it. I'm sick of kids on their phones all the time. And do you know, do you know, seriously, there's a pediatric study, and I'm going to butcher this, and I wish you would find this next next. time but it's like the number of broken bones and children has decreased by like i don't know something like 80% over the last two decades really we kind of rift on that in the vanessa elias interview but we didn't talk about the data but it's something like 80% uh and that sounds great right because you know who wants to break a bunch of kids bones but actually it leads to more problems

down the road because kids' bones aren't stronger from all the exercise and stuff they got because they're fat, eating twinkies behind devices that we as parents give them. And more importantly, what it means is you're not taking risks. Yeah, that's a good point, too. Yeah. So anyway, we're going to talk about this stuff right after these brief messages from our center sponsors. What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream,

and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnest, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe, most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From planning canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life,

the moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama

as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime

that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did. why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way,

and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he would have this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders.

Listen to Revision's History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the build-up and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Isman.

We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics.

Get the big short now at pushkin.fm.fm.combs or wherever audiobooks are sold. I'm Iba Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomes Rejoin. And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells, and they called these Oster Khan, to vote politicians into everything. Exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the OsterCon.

And because we've got a very Mikaasa is Su Casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico. No, the America. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be it forever and ever. It blows me away how progress. of Mexico was in this, in this moment. They had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the Mycultura

podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms and welcome back to Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. season. We're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop? What? Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player. Who still wore knee pads? Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow.

Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch in to the show. Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcasts we were doing. Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes.

Listen to season four of Snafu with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everybody, welcome back. What kids told us about how to get them off their phones? So we're always trying to talk about how to get, well, as usual, why don't we go to the source and ask them? So apparently we're going to learn what kids told us about how to get them off their phones. Children who were raised on screens need more freedom out in the real world. I haven't even read the thing yet, but I'm just going to paraphrase here, quit being helicopter parents. Okay.

One common explanation for why children spend so much of their free time on screens goes like this. Smartphones and social media platforms are addicting them. Kids stare at their devices and socialize online instead of in-person because that's what tech has trained them to want. Boy, that's paraphrases basically what a lot of people think and believe. But this misses a key part of the story. The three of us, these three of us writers, are Leonor's... Morris Canozy, Jonathan Hayd, and Zach Roche. All right, these three people collaborated with the Harris Poll to survey a group of Americans

whose perspectives don't often show up in national data. Kids. What they told us offers a comprehensive picture of how American childhood is changing and, most importantly, how to make it better. In March, the Harris Poll surveyed more than 500 kids ages 8 to 12 across the United States who were assured that their answers would remain private. The kids didn't want their parents to know. That's funny.

They offered unmistakable evidence that the phone-based childhood is in full force. A majority reported having smartphones and about half of the 10 to 12-year-olds said that most or all of their friends use social media. How old are your kids? So my oldest, too, that this is relevant for are 10 and 11. Yeah.

Yeah, and I've refused to let them have smart phones, but most of their friends do. How's George? He's six. All right, so six. Oh, geez, six, eight, ten, and eleven. I mean, three of them are in the focus group age. Yeah, yeah. Do your kids have smart phones?

No. When, how old will they be? How old will they be when you let them have them? I mean, at least 14. I love that. Yeah. Anyway, keep going. I want you to, we've ripped on, I don't want us to,

complain about the topic too much there's fascinating stuff in here to get into all right i'll keep going all right so uh about half the 10 to 12 year old said that most of all their friends use social media this digital technology has given kids access to virtual worlds where they're allowed to roam far more freely than in the real one about 75 percent of kids they just think about that for a sec though oh no isn't that a wild i've never even thought of that's such a good line the digital technology has given kids access to virtual worlds where they're allowed to roam far more freely than the real one. The point is, I don't know if that line is indicative of a good thing or a bad thing. I would say a bad thing for kids C's age.

About 75% of kids, ages 9 through 12, regularly play the online game Roblox, where they can interact with friends and even strangers. But most of the children in our survey said they aren't allowed to be out in public at all without an adult. There you go. Most of the kids survey can't walk around in public without an adult

because parents want to protect them, but then they pay for and give them a device and give them access to roam the world with strangers, many of whom are creeps, are grown creeps

trying to do things with your children. Just remember that. Fewer than half of the eight to nine-year-old, have gone down a grocery store all alone. More than quarter aren't allowed to play unsupervised, even though in front yard,

but yet they can roam around virtually in this world. These are the exact kinds of freedoms that kids told us they long for. We ask them to pick their favorite way to spend time of friends. Unstructured play, such as shooting hoops and exploring their neighborhoods, participating in activities organized by adults,

such as playing Little League and doing by, or socializing online, there was a clear winner. An image of a graph showing responses to the question, how would you rather spend time with friends, 45% of the respondents said free play in person, 30% said organized activity in person, and only 25% said online activity. Children want to meet up in person, no screens or supervision,

but because so many parents restrict their ability to socialize in the world, world on their own, kids resort to the one thing that allows them to hang out with no adults hovering their phones. Since the 80s, parents have grown more and more afraid that unsupervised time will expose their kids to physical or emotional harm. In another recent Harris poll, we asked parents what they thought would happen if two 10-year-olds played in a local part without adults around. 60% thought the children would likely get injured. Half thought they would likely get abducted.

I'm sorry for laughing, but good grief. 10-year-olds, when I was 10, I roamed everywhere. And yeah, I might have gotten hurt or something, but, I mean, it wasn't anything so stupid. And the reality is most kids are in towns like I'm in in Oxford that are really safe. Yeah. Rome. Oh, here we go. We're about to put some data on what I just said. These intuitions don't even

begin to reserve a reality. According to the Warwick Carnes, the author of How to Live Dangerously, kidnapping the United States, is so rare that a child would have to be outside, unsupervised, on average, 750,000 years before being snatched by a stranger. I don't know who'd want to kidnap my kids. Good luck. Yeah, that's right. There's a couple of my kids. kids, you'd probably kidnap and bring back. Just say here, I don't want anything to take them. But listen to that. Kidnapping is so rare that a child would have to be outside unsupervised for, on average, 750,000 years before being snatched. Parents know their neighborhood best, of course, and they should assess them carefully. But the tendency to overestimate risk

comes with its own danger. Without world-world freedom, children don't get the chance to develop competence, confidence, and the ability to solve everyday issues. Indeed, independence and unsupervised play are associated with positive mental health outcomes. What country were we talking about recently? Oh, Switzerland with Vanessa. Yeah. Yeah.

And their deal is... Actually, that episode, this is... No, yeah, that episode will be out. Sorry, go ahead. So you might want to refer to... The Vanessa Elias episode. Yeah, because they just let their kids do whatever they want to. Actually, at their school, you cannot drop them off.

They have to walk her back there. They have to walk to school. You're not allowed to drop them off or pick them up. To teach them, let's see, what were these words? To teach them independence and other stuff. Okay. Still, I'll go back. Without real world freedom, children don't get the chance to develop competence, confidence in the ability to solve everyday problems.

Indeed, independence and unsupervised player associated with positive mental health outcomes. Still, parents spend more time supervising their kids than parents did in the 60s, even though they now work more and have fewer children. Across all income levels, families have come to believe that organized activities are the key to kids' safety and success. So, sandlock games gave way to travel baseball. Cartwells at the park gave way to competitive cheer teams. Kids have been strapped into the back of the seat for their lives, dropped off, picked up, and overheld. As their independence has dwindled, their anxiety and depression have spiked. And they aren't the only one suffering.

In 2023, the Surgeon General cited intensive caregiving as one reason for today's parents are more stressed than ever. That is so interesting. Kids will always have more spare hours than adults can supervise, a gap that devices now fill. Go outside has been quite replaced with Go Online. The Internet is one of the only escape hatches from childhood's grown, anxious, small, and sad. We certainly don't blame parents for this. The social norms, communities, infrastructure, and institutions that once facilitated free play have eroded, telling children to go outside doesn't work so well when no one else's kids are there.

That's why we're so glad that groups around the country are experimenting with ways to rebuild American childhood, rooting it in freedom, responsibility, and friendship. In Piedmont, California, a network of parents started dropping their kids off at the park every Friday to play and supervise. Sometimes the kids argue or get bored, which is good. Learning to handle boredom and conflict is an essential part of a child's development. Elsewhere, churches, libraries, and schools are creating screen-free play clubs to ease the transition away from screens and supervision. The Outside Play Lab at the University of British Columbia developed a free online tool that helps parents figure out how to give their kids more outdoor time than why they should. Just to brief and allude here, the fact that we have to give parents tools about how to let their children go play outside in and of itself is endemic of home.

problem, I think. We'll be right back. What do you get when you mix 1950s, a Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic that comes of all time. You get Desi Arness, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him,

probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plening canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life, the moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television and what that meant for all of us

watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the MyCultura podcast network

available on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. Thirty-five years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur. Thirty-five long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did,

why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he would have this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revision's History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Michael Lewis here. My book, The Big Short, tells the story of the build-up and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding. Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just happened.

Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the big short now at pushkin.fm slash audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold. I'm Ibel Ongoria and I'm Maitego-Merjohn.

And on our podcast, Hungry for History, we mix two of our favorite things, food and history. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells and they called those Ostercon to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word, Oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. And because we've got a very My Casa is Su Casa kind of vibe on our show, friends always stop by. Pretty much every entry into this side of the planet was through the Gulf of Mexico.

No, the America. No, the America. The Gulf of Mexico, continue to be forever and ever. It blows me away how progressive Mexico was in this moment. They had land reform. They had labor rights, they had education rights. Mustard seeds were so valuable to the ancient Egyptians that they used to place them in their tombs for the afterlife. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms, and welcome back to Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafu every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons?

Wait, stop? What? Yeah. Ernie Shackleton sounds like a solid 70s basketball player. Who still wore knee pads? Yes. It's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of guests. The great Paul Shear made me feel good. I'm like, oh, wow.

Angela and Jenna, I am so psyched. You're here. What was that like for you to soft launch into the show? Sorry, Jenna, I'll be asking the questions today. I forgot whose podcasts we were doing. Nick Kroll. I hope this story is good enough to get you to toss that sandwich. So let's see how it goes.

Listen to season four of Snap-Foo with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. More than a thousand schools nationwide have begun using a free program. from Let Grow and Nonprofit, the two of us, Lenore and John, help foul to foster children's independence. K through 12 students in the program get a monthly homework assignment. Do something new on your own. With your parents' permission, but without their help.

Kids use the prompt to run errands, climb trees, cook meals. Some finally learn how to tie their own shoes. Here's what one fourth grader with intellectual disabilities wrote in our own words and spelling. This is my Fist Let It Go Project. I went shopping by myself. I handle it will,

but the checkout was a little bit hard but was fun to do. I learned that I'm brave and go shop by myself. I love the project. Other hopeful signs are emerging. The New Jersey-based balance project is helping 50 communities

reduce scream time and restore free play for kids, employing the four new norm. that John lays out in the anxious generation. This summer, Newburyport, Massachusetts is handing out prizes each week to kids who want to try something new on their own. Let Grow has a toolkit for other communities that want to do the same. The Boy Scouts, the now rebranded, is scouting America

and open to all young people, is finally growing again. We could go on. What we see in the data, and from the stories parents send us, is both simple and poignant. Kids being raised on screens long for freedom. It's like they're homesick from a world they've never known. Boy, that's a cool line. Granting them more freedom may feel uncomfortable at first,

but if parents want their kids to put down their phones, they need to open the front door. Nearly three quarters of the children in our survey agreed with a statement, I would spend less time online if there were more friends in my neighborhood to play with in person. Stephanie H. Murray, what adults lost when kids stop playing in the street. If nothing changes, Silicon Valley will keep supplying kids with ever more sophisticated AI friends that are always available and will cater to a child's every whim.

But AI will never fulfill a child's deepest desires. Even this generation of digital natives still longs for what most of their parents had, time with friends, in person, without adults. Today's kids want to spend their childhood in the real world. It's our job to give it back to them. Holy smokes. I don't have an hour to sit here and go on about this. You got two minutes if you got a hard stop at 10.

It's all right, but we got maybe two to six. But the point is that's how, I'm bragging on Lisa. But, man, I'm telling you, she would sling the door open after breakfast during the summers, and say, get in the yard. And there were a couple of other groups of kids. There were some helicopter parents who didn't let their precious babies

come outside and get skinned knees. But there were, and we lived and we weren't in a neighborhood where houses were just lined up. So there were space. But I mean, our kids wandered half a mile from the house, playing kick the can. There's no doubt they knocked on people's doors and ran.

and did stuff they shouldn't do. I mean, I'm sure of it. But you know what? And they did. They came back, scraped and bruised and sweaty and red and everything else. But thank goodness, Lisa did that with our kids. And we didn't fight the devices. We waited, we did cell phones on everybody's 15th birthday.

And I still am not sure if that's earlier late. But we did not do screen dumb. And Max and Will were allowed one hour of video games a day. And that was it. And, you know, my kids are not perfect. And they, in fact, they're pretty flawed. But the one thing they are, they're social. They are very social human beings.

And they like to have fun and they like to laugh. And they are creative. And even as young adults, they are interested in new things. And I think it's because they're all curious too. I mean, I don't really know Maggie, but like Max, Will and Molly are definitely all curious. I mean, you remember Max, you know, came in here? Yeah, well, we did our thing. Yeah, and his, he had some super powerful lines of like, me and my dad used to not be on the same side of the field.

And like, now we are. And I'm forgetting the exact nature of it. But he said a lot of beautiful things. Max is a great kid. But the point is, I think they're curious. and all of that comes from their socialization as children. And their socialization in children comes from the fact that when I was at work, Lisa kicked their ass out the door and told them to go outside and play.

And I genuinely believe that. And so because that's my experience, that's why I'm constantly talking about, and candidly how disgusting helicoptering is. I mean, you're shutting down your children's ability to develop, and we've got to let them get out there. And what happens to this army of normal folks if we don't have people who have the intellectual curiosity to engage because they never learned how as kids

unless it's online with some stranger that's got an avatar? So in like one sense, as they mentioned the article, too, it's helicoptering with the physical world, but then it's the opposite of that with the online world. Yeah, that's the other thing that's with the real danger, you're not even, you're not even, you're not even connected as a parent to what the world danger is when you won't let your kid outside, but you fill their time with online stuff. The real danger is there. There are horrible people in places in the world that can get online and send your kids horrible pictures and convince them to do awful things. and just hype i mean with my girls you know they would they know like way too much about sex like ages

eight and nine just from the culture and all the stuff online and this hypersexualized music and video content and like that's all out there if you just let them roam the internet yeah and they're not going to find that climbing the top of a tree they're not going to climb find that building a fort they're not going to find that playing kick the can so where's the danger danger's online and the alternative danger is. So what if they skin and ear break an arm? Who cares? They're going to be all right. Let them go. Let them be kids. And it's been one of my pet peeves and arguments for years and years and years. And I'm sure I've heard some mommy's feelings saying what I'm saying and maybe some daddy's feelings too. But for gosh sakes, let your kids be free. Let them roam, let them learn,

let them develop and trust that you've done a good enough job, giving them the proper morals and foundations that when they're faced with a big issue, they'll choose right. And if they don't, well, they'll learn from that too. Let them roam. Let them be free. Great, great article, Alex. Well, I didn't write it, but thanks. No, well, thanks for finding it. Thanks for sharing it. So that's it. Shop Talk number 77, quit being a helicopter parent, recognize where the real danger is. Kick your kids out of the house and let them go have fun outside. and understand that a little bit of free time is really what they're longing for.

And if you're tired of all the time they're spending on screens, listen to what they tell us. It's not that that's the primary thing they want to do. It's just filling the void for the things that they really long for, which is face-to-face interaction and free play time with friends.

Give them that, and you'll see your screen time decrease. And you also see your child develop in a better way than, what maybe you've experienced so far. So that's it. If you like this shop talk, please rate it, review it, share it with friends on social. If you have any idea for shop talk in the future,

you can write me anytime at bill at normalfokes.us. You can write me there as well if you have ideas for guests for an army of normal folks. If you write me there, I will respond. Please join what? Join the army at normal folks. Yeah, that's it. That's shop talk number 77.

Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next next one. Malcolm Gladwell here, this season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years, that's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill them. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Michael Lewis here. My best-selling book, The Big Short, tells the story of the build-up and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. A decade ago, the Big Short was made into an Academy Award-winning movie. And now I'm bringing it to you for the first time as an audiobook narrated by yours truly. The Big Short Story, what it means to bet against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin.fm. slash audiobooks or wherever audiobooks are sold. Join me, Danny Trejo, in Nocturno, Tales from the Shadow. An anthology of modern-day horror stories

inspired by the legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal, Tales from the Shadows. On the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm I'm Ida Gomergaard, and this week on our podcast, Hungry for History, we talk oysters plus the Mianbi chief star. upspy. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile.

So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the OsterCon. Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Ed Helms host of Snafu, my podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. On our new season, we're bringing you a new snafoo every single episode. 32 lost nuclear weapons. Wait, stop?

What? Yeah, it's going to be a whole lot of history, a whole lot of funny, and a whole lot of fabulous guests. Paul Shearer. Angela and Jenna. Nick Kroll. Jordan, Klepper. Listen to season four of Snafoo with Ed Helms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.