An Army of Normal Folks - What To Do If Wine, Netflix, and "Self-Care" Aren’t Making You Happy (Pt 1)

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Society tells us that self-care makes us happy, but Melissa O’Neil discovered that it doesn’t. She’s found happiness through building an identity of someone who serves. Sometimes that shows up in large ways like fostering two boys and other times in smaller, yet meaningful ways like helping a nonprofit write thank you notes. Melissa will show you how to find meaning in every season of life!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premiumSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I don't think you're going to just say one day, I'm going to run a marathon. You might say, oh, running seems interesting. I might try that. I'm going to go run a mile. And you could run one mile. That could be the furthest distance you ever run in your life. You could do it a couple of times. You are a runner. Other people might decide to push it a little further, run a 5K, run a 10K, 10-mile, etc. some people are going to go run marathons. Some people are going to go run ultramarathons. All of you are runners, and all of you are a part of that community.

And that's how I feel about my experience with service. And when I think of the Army of Normal Folks, that's what I see as such an exciting movement to build. That is awesome. That was worth the whole interview right there. Welcome to an Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis. And that last part somehow, well, it led to an Oscar for a film about one of my teams. It's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems are never

going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits talking big words that nobody understands on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. Guys, that's us. Just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Melissa O'Neill, the voice you just heard, has done. Melissa is a really unique episode for us because we're not focusing on a single subject, but a bunch of different things she's done,

and the impact that a truly normal person can have without launching some big organization or nonprofit. She's volunteered with CASA, fostered two boys, is a member of a giving circle, started her own giving circle with a few friends, and she's incredible. I cannot wait for you to hear this unbelievable story of wisdom and service right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors.

I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern

fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to Great Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from Open AI CEO, Sam Aldman.

There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person, a billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses.

Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama, where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family, waited for justice to occur, 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did,

why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Like if we're on the air here, and I literally have my contract here, and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven-figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire. The Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the story. behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's Rise, featuring conversations with Ludacris, Will Packer,

Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent, creatives in all walks of life. life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said, this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too much. I'm a Grady, baby. Shut up. Listen to where Atlanta is on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Greatness doesn't just show up. It's built. One shot, one choice, one moment at a time. From NBA champion, Stefan Curry comes shot ready, a powerful, never-before-seen look at the mindset that change the game. I fell in love with the grind. You have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around. Success is not an accident. I'm passing the ball to you. Let's go. Steph Curry redefined basketball. Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed. Shot ready isn't just a memoir. It's a playbook for anyone chasing their potential. Discover stories, strategies, and over 100 never-before-seen photos. Order shot ready now at stephen currybook. Don't miss Stephen Curry's New York Times bestseller,

Shot Ready, available now. Melissa O'Neill from Washington, D.C., do you live in D.C.? In Arlington. That's where my kid lives. That's where two of my kids live, actually. You should meet them. I should meet them.

They should join her giving circle. They should join her getting circle, Bill. They work for the government. government. They're very underpaid civil service. It's okay. You'll hear about it later, but it's not a high buy-in. I'll give you their contact information. You can call them. So Melissa O'Neill, everybody. Typically, at the top of the show, we say something like Melissa O'Neill, founder of X, Y, Z. Melissa O'Neill, director of X, Y, Z. But we're just saying Melissa O'Neill, what's up?

Hey. Melissa's story is awesome. I'm going to go in reverse, and then we'll unfold. fold it chronologically. She currently works for Stand Together, who you've heard Alex and I certainly refer to, and I think we're going to explain more about Stand Together over the coming months. And she's a mommy. Helds your son, Jackson, nine months ago became a mom. She's a wife to her husband, Scott. And she has been a foster parent. She has been involved in organizations supporting foster parents. She's been involved as an advocate for foster kids, which we have done a story on,

which is really cool. She's been part of a giving circle, and I think even on the board or the decision-making of a giving circle, which we have highlighted on the show before, and she even ran into a former guest as a part of being in a giving circle who is also at D.C., gal who wrote one of the coolest articles we've ever read about the importance of giving and how she feels like a lot of her friends and her professors, even in college, got service all wrong. Rachel's story.

What was the name? What was Rachel Cohen? She wrote why I changed my mind about volunteering. Why I changed my mind about volunteering who you've met, which, by the way, I absolutely, in a very platonic way, fell in love with that young lady when I'm out. Awesome. She is incredible and I fell in love with how truly liberal her mind is, meaning open, which you can talk about her if you want to. So Melissa O'Neill, everybody, is just a normal person who has been involved in a number of different things. And Alex said we got to talk to Melissa because she is quintessentially what we want the army to look like, just millions of you. They're frankly harder guests to find too. So just plugging that for all the listeners, like it's easier to find somebody who started

an organization, right? It's harder to find the beautiful, normal folks' souls. So if you see someone like that in your community, we should interview and make sure to email us about it. That's right. So welcome to Memphis. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

So we're going to start at the beginning and just kind of let people hear literally how normal you are and really kind of the track of how. you've gotten involved in things and what they've meant to the people that you've been able to serve, but also what it's meant to you. I think that's really part of the importance of the story. So I'm going to let you start with how cool it was that your parents took you to Mexico on a family trip. Yeah, I would say growing up, in general, we were pretty service-oriented. I think my parents really instilled that in us. And we did-

Where were you from? I'm from California. You grew up in a pretty affluent area. I grew up in Orange County, California, but my father was from the Midwest, and I think that that kind of combination of California and Midwest together really created a unique culture within our family. And we always did a lot of volunteering and service, and it was great. And growing, the way I like to tell the stories, like, growing up in an affluent area,

a lot of our friends and our peers were going on all these, like, international trips, right? And as kids, you don't really understand the difference or like, why can't we? I'm also one of five children. So there's a lot of us. Well, there's one reason why. It's expensive. I have four. It's five.

And just logistically, you know, the age range, all of that. It just, you know, wasn't something we're going to do. So one year they decided, my parents decided to take us on a trip to Mexico. And it wasn't the first time we'd been to Mexico, but it was definitely the most meaningful trip we've taken to Mexico. And essentially it was a service trip. And we went down with a. guys know that? We did. Yeah. I don't think we really understood what that meant just because of

like the age range and everything. But I think we did know we weren't just going to go play on the beach the whole weekend. How old were you? Which we didn't even go to the beach at all. Yeah. How old were you? I want to say, so we went a couple of times. I want to say the first time, I was probably like 10 maybe around. And I've got two younger siblings and two older siblings, right? So we kind of ranged in ages. But we went down with a bunch of our family, So it wasn't just our family. It was some other adults and their families that we knew, our next-door neighbor, who has five boys. And we went down and we spent the whole weekend together building a house.

And it was in a community that was just so completely different than what we had ever seen, either in California or in Missouri, houses oftentimes made out of cardboard, like just completely different. It was like Habitat for Humanity, but it's a smaller organization called Homes for Hope. and we worked alongside the family. I kind of was in the middle-age range, so I helped with the house and I also got to play with the kids. My younger sisters were just like running around in the dirt with the other kids

that lived in the neighborhood. And it was just such a meaningful experience. And I remember afterwards when we were talking as a family about it, you know, like, would you guys want to do it again? It was like the quickest yes that any of us had ever done. And so we did it again.

I think the following year might have been a couple years later. I went on to do it. a couple of times just as like a teenager through the church because the church had similar programs. And then I don't even, maybe in like 2018 or 19, we actually decided to do it again as adults with our significant others. And so Scott got to come with me. And we all did the same group of families. And we did it again. And it's just, it was such a meaningful trip. And I think sometimes when I think about kind of my point of view of the world and

service today. That's one of the core memories that really just always comes to me of like we got to go to Mexico and we built a house and we played with families. We didn't go to the beach and it was amazing. I mean, it's got to be formative. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was clearly planted. Why'd your mom and dad want to do that? Do you have a sense of that? I mean, was it we've obviously, if you're living in an orange, I don't know what the socioeconomic status your family was, but your family had been blessed by some level of affluence. Was it we've been given so much we need to go back and we want to teach our children this? I mean, do you know what the idea was there? It's a great question. I should talk more in depth with my parents about it.

I mean, I think it was probably a little bit of that, but I think also just inherent to their principles, right, giving back to the community. We were always doing things like that, small and big. And I think they just genuinely believed it was a part of them and wanted it to become a part of us. And I think that was a great way to do it while also having a great family trip altogether. I mean, to me, that and of itself should be a guiding principle or a guiding light for those of us who are parents and are becoming parents. The old nature versus nurture thing, but in terms of nurture and actually building an army of normal folks that want to serve and change the world, maybe there's no bigger influence you could have than that of the children down the hallway in your own home.

Yeah, and I think it was, I think another thing that was really important to them, especially having a view from the Midwest with kind of the Southern California, and really being aware that that lifestyle maybe is a little bit different. I think they really wanted to give us a lot of exposure. two different situations and lifestyles. And I think just from a general kind of understanding, a better understanding of like some of the things that we were seeing that really weren't normal and how different, you know, different communities live. I mean, just to like throw a random example, like I'm still embarrassed by this today. I remember when I turned 16,

I was like, so I'm going to get like a range rover, right? Like that's the car. that I want. And it's so absurd for me now. But at the time, like, things like that were happening around us. And obviously when I went to Mexico, I was younger than that. But those are the things that my parents were very aware were, like, happening with our peers. And they were just really intentional about making sure that we didn't grow up with only that view of the world. I want to give your folks a high five. Oh, yeah. They're the best. So. I did not get a range So when as you don't know much about my background, but I never had a yard to cut until I bought my own first house.

I grew up in apartments. Mom was married and divorced five times. We didn't have anything. So I grew up much differently than you did. My children, however, would identify with your world because I was blessed with some level of success in business. And, but because of where I came from and because of what I, the obscene affluence surrounding my children at school and their friends, which, listen, I am a, an absolute go get all you can in this world guy, all right? It's just what you do with it that matters.

I believe in exceptionalism. I believe in personal exceptionalism. I believe in American exceptionalism. and I believe the right to go pursue exceptionalism is a beautiful right that many in our world don't have and to not pursue it is almost sinful. Go get it. It's just what you do with it. So trying to get to the point. I'm just getting long-winded here. But the point is as a result of seeing the things that you were seeing as a kid, but seeing that through the lens of my children's eyes, my kids grew up on a house and a lovely part. in Germantown, Tennessee, and we had four acres in a pond, and it was a lot to keep up.

But I was not going to pay anybody to keep it up when I had these four able-bodied children hanging around the house. I was not going to watch my kids sit on their eating bonbons playing video games while somebody named Jorge was outside cutting the grass. That, to me, was revolting. So the deal was we went to church every Sunday. Saturdays were typically games. So we went to church every Sunday.

And then everybody knew when we came home from church, we would eat. And then from one until the sun came down, it was getting the yard. And each kid had their job. And one of the girls trimmed the ivy. One of the girls did this, the boys' edge, the boys we do, the boys cut the grass. I worked with them. And trust me, there were times that I thought this would be so much easier just to pay somebody to do this and sit out here. And you grew up in Atlanta, or you mean, you lived in Atlanta.

You know what Memphis and Atlanta heat is in August. It's miserable. Anyway, so I'm out there with my kids, and it's one miserable, hot August afternoon, and my 11-year-old, which is my second oldest daughter, Molly, comes around the corner, toting a bag of grass, sweating, grass sticking to her face, red-faced. And Molly, to this day, is very, very sassy, and she has a, she's just, she's the mouthy one of the group. And she comes around, and I'm like, make sure you put. that on the pile. She's like, I'm going to put it on the pile. And I'm like, hey, watch out. And she goes,

dad, why can't we just have a yard man like normal people do? And I said, Molly, the very question is the reason we don't have a yard man. And I hope one day you'll understand that. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors. But first, please consider signing up to join the Army at normalfolks.us. By signing up, you'll receive a weekly email with updates about the Army and short episode summaries in case you happen to miss an episode, or you prefer reading about our incredible guests. Please sign up. The more numbers, the more impact. We'll be right back. Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed.

We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures.

It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion-dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen.

I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here.

This season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur. 35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did, why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way, and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering,

we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize, turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he had this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is the Alabama murders. Listen to Revisionist History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Like if we're on the air here, and I literally have my contract here, and I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven-figure check.

I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks. From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creators who built the cultural empire. The Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's Rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as

like, you know, seeing so many young, black, affluent, creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said this is your assignment. And that's like how you know, like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too much. I'm a Grady, baby. Shut up. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greatness doesn't just show up. It's built. One shot, one choice, one moment at a time. From NBA champion, Stefan Curry, comes shot ready, a powerful, never-before-seen look at the mindset that changed the game. I fell in love with the grind. You have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around. Success is not an accident. I'm passing the ball to you.

Let's go. Steph Curry redefined basketball. Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed. Shot Ready isn't just a memoir. It's a playbook for anyone chasing their potential. Discover stories, strategies, and over 100 never-before-seen photos. Order Shot Ready. Now at stephen Curry book.com.

Don't miss Stephen Curry's New York Times bestseller Shot Ready. now. Nowadays, my kids who have not had children yet, but are all starting to get married, all like, our kids are cutting the grass. So I kind of believe that your parents and Lisa and I are probably kindred experience in that regard. I think so. Absolutely.

Because you don't need a Range Rover when you're 16. In fact, you don't even need a car if you're 16. And if you do need a car, you need to spend some of your own money on it. You need to know what it means to change oil and change a flat. Because if the thing doesn't break down when you're 16 years old, you have unreal expectations for life. That's kind of the way I think about it. Yeah. Yeah.

I agree. And I think those are definitely principles that get passed down. I mean, I know those were principles of value in my husband and that will be passed down to Jackson. And we're passed down to our foster boys as well. All right, Jackson. When you're nine, you're going to get a. a lawnmower for Christmas. All right.

I don't know. Scott might not give up cutting the grass because it's one of his favorite things to do. Well, then Jack's can run around behind him and break up clippings, whatever. Exactly. All right. So that kind of sets a stage. Yeah. Tell me where life takes you from that basis that your parents pounded into you and

yourselves. I mean, I think I just kind of went on kind of a normal trajectory, a normal person, right? So went through high school, went to college, got my first job. Where did you go to college? I went to college at the University of Texas in Austin. Got it. Where I met my husband. Hookham Horns.

Yes, Hookham Horns. Loved it. Great experience. And, yeah, so then I got my first job. And I also loved I worked for Delta Airlines. This was a great place to work. Totally recommend working for an airline. If you can swing it, you get some great flight benefits.

And then my, we were moving. And so I ended up working remote before the pandemic. You moved from Atlanta. From Atlanta, yeah. So I ended up working remote. What's your husband do? out of curiosity. He does supply chain for manufacturing.

So at the time, he was getting his MBA. And when he graduated, that's when we moved. And he was working for like a supplier production line. Honestly, I don't know that much. He was working. It was good. Yeah, it was great. But we had to move a lot because a lot of MBA programs, you will do multiple jobs over

multiple years. But a lot of times they're in the same building. But because he was working on manufacturing sites, physically, they were moving locations. So we knew we were going to have to move multiple times over a short period of time. And so I worked for Delta remote while that happened, but I also knew that I needed to find a new job. And I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was never career-oriented. But I genuinely did enjoy working at Delta. And that's what brought me to, I think. Well, I also read, I think that you also kind of thought, you know, I wouldn't mind being a stay-at-home

and mom either. Yeah, exactly. I was kind of like, you know, I'll work if I have to. I don't know. It's not really for me. I just, I'm not super passionate about anything specifically. I went into finance because I liked math and you could take finance into any industry, but like didn't really have, you know, wasn't one of those. I have a whole life plan for me. But so working remote reviewers, I had a lot of time to really reflect on kind of what I wanted to do in a next role. And I really think that was like a very pivotal moment for me that really like started me on kind of the trajectory. that I have now and my points of view on the world now, where I realized how much I genuinely enjoyed kind of these different service opportunities that Delta had provided. And I started realizing, you know, you do a lot of service as a kid because your parents kind of, well, maybe not everyone. My parents kind of supported that. And then from there, you do.

Well, plus, if you're in a church, or even your schools. Can drives and whatever. I mean, as a kid, you do get exposed to it, whether or not it takes is all another thing. But most kids do get exposed to the idea of service. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think that continues into high school because everyone says, oh, you have to have service to, like, put on your resume, right? And so you do some service in high school to, like, beef up your resume for college. You get to college.

Same thing. Oh, you got to do some community service clubs, things, because that'll look really good on a job application. So you do that. And I always enjoyed it, but I never really thought about it specifically until later. And then, you know, I went to Delta and I was lucky that Delta has a very strong corporate social responsibility program and had all these opportunities. I don't think that that's very common, especially at the time, I think more. Nowadays, there's more corporations that are doing more of that. But I just realized that that was always what I really enjoyed. And so since I, in my mind, was like, well, I don't, I haven't always wanted to be a career person.

Maybe I could take a pay cut and go work in the nonprofit space, right? Like, maybe that's actually an option. And I had time to figure that out, which I did end up doing. I did end up switching to the nonprofit space, which we can get into also more detail. And I just started on this journey of realizing that there's so much personal. value that I get out of anything that I'm doing that is also supporting others, that I've kind of come to this place where now it's just a part of who I am. And as we might explore, like, the reason I've done so many different things is because

I believe that I just believe that I'm someone who wants to give back. And I know that my life goes through different seasons and I change interests. and I have different amounts of capacity to give to that. And that's okay, but it's core to who I am. And so since that moment, I think I've gotten really creative and how I contribute and how I help others and how I do all these things. And at the end of the day, I think it makes me a more fulfilled and happy person because, I don't know, I just love it. It's just so fun. Which is we always talk about you get 10 times more out of it than,

you put into it. Absolutely. And you're sitting here ringing that bell as we speak. Yeah. And I think this one of the things I was talking about with Alex, which everyone always loves this, is, you know, there's a lot of loneliness and there's a lot of, I think, challenges with a lot of my peer group around like feeling really connected to their communities, things like that.

How old am I? I'm 34. We have no shame around here. My kids are in their late 20s getting into their 30s. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not that dissimilar for me. Yeah, no, I would group it.

But they also talk about, one of my daughters talks about how so lost her generation seems to feel. Yeah. And it's interesting, you just talked about loneliness. I think in different words, you're saying some of the same thing. Yeah. I think it is interesting that that generation is also the generation that is propping up the numbers about the amount of.

of giving and philanthropic hours that have continued to drop. I know you're a data-driven person, but that's happening in our society today. And I think it's really interesting when you talk to somebody from that generation who does give a their time that understands the data, that on the one hand says, this is the data. On the other hand, says, so me my peers feel lost and lonely. Yeah. Is that not ironic? It is.

Well, it's very ironic. And I think, you know, my perspective, it's giving back might be something that people do, but I don't think it's something they really think about. Like, it's kind of out of side out of mind. And then maybe there's an opportunity like, oh, okay, I'll give a little bit. But if somebody wants to come with me and build this out, please let me know because I can't do it. But like, when I think about social media and all the marketing that happens for me and my peers, It's very much like, oh, you're sad or you're stressed or you have anxiety, like, you know, self-care.

That's what you should do. You should do self-care. And what does that mean? Yeah. And it means. No, I love what you're saying. It is so true. It's so true.

And it is this pop-syke thing that if you're feeling bad. Go be alone. What? What? We're humans. I think I read where you said, pick a bubble bath. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

So what the messaging that I received. is, oh, you're so stressed out from work, like, get home and watch that show and drink that wine and make yourself a dinner and, you know, you deserve it. You worked so hard. And I think that that's true and that can be nice. But for me personally, it didn't make me feel better. It actually made me feel worse. And I would feel like I would do that a couple of days in a row, right? And it's like, what am I doing with my time? It just maybe in the moment it feels okay, but it doesn't feel good. Where's the reward?

Yeah, and I don't know. It just felt, it just felt like that's what everyone's telling me to do and I'm doing it and it's not really doing anything for me. But what I realized was thinking back, reflecting on all the things that make me feel good and the service side of that, I started looking for ways to give back one night a week. And that's when I first started getting involved with the foster, the family, which is an organization that supports foster parents. Was that the first thing? It wasn't the first thing, but it was something that I was able to sign up for that was low lift and reoccurring. So basically,

they support foster families and they host a support group for the foster parents once a month. And they provide free child care because it's very hard when you have foster children to figure out what child care looks like. There's behavior challenges or not. But it's just tricky, right? And it's expensive. So I was able to volunteer as essentially a babysitter with a group of people. It wasn't like me and 10 kids. And I did that for an hour and a half. To give foster parents a break. To give the foster. And let them go have their support group, which I later joined and found very valuable. I just realized that that made me feel so much better. And so it just makes me think like, if we could just have a marketing campaign that just actually like puts these ideas and the facts and the

science and the examples in front of people, we could just solve a lot of big problems. Yeah, Alex and I are trying real hard. We'll be right back. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor.

In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight.

Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page. Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one-page business plan

for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff. I decided to create Kyle, my AI co-founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Aldman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one-person billion dollar company, which would have been like unimaginable without AI and now will happen. I got to thinking, could I be that one person? I'd made AI agents before for my award-winning podcast, Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company

with a real product run by fake people. Oh, hey, Evan. Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents and small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell Game on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Malcolm Gladwell here. This season on Revisionous History,

we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. 35 years. That's how long Elizabeth's and its family waited for justice to occur.

35 long years. I want to figure out why this case went on for as long as it did. Why it took so many bizarre and unsettling turns along the way and why, despite our best efforts to resolve suffering, we all too often make suffering worse. He would say to himself, turn to the right, to the victim's family, and apologize,

turn to the left, tell my family I love him. So he would have this little practice, to the right, I'm sorry, to the left, I love you. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders. Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Like, if we're on the air here, and I literally have my contract here, And I'm looking at, you know, as soon as I sign this, I'm going to get a seven-figure check. I've told them I won't be working here in two weeks.

From the underground clubs that shaped global music to the pastors and creatives who built the cultural empire, the Atlanta Ears podcast uncovers the stories behind one of the most influential cities in the world. The thing I love about Atlanta is that it's a city of hustlers, man. Each episode explores a different chapter of Atlanta's rise, featuring conversations with ludicrous, Will Packer, Pastor Jamal Bryant, DJ Drama, and more. The full series is available to listen to now. I really just had never experienced anything like what was going on in the city as far as like, you know, seeing so many young, black,

affluent, creatives in all walks of life. The church had dwindled almost to nothing. And God said this is your assignment. And that's like how you know like, okay, oh, you're from Atlanta for real. I ain't got to say too much. I'm a Grady, baby. Shut up. Listen to Atlanta is on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. greatness doesn't just show up it's built one shot one choice one moment at a time from NBA champion stephen curry comes shot ready a powerful never-before seen look at the mindset that changed the game i fell in love with the grind you have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around success is not an accident i'm passing the ball to you let's go

step curry redefined basketball now he's rewriting what it means to succeed Shot Ready isn't just a memoir. It's a playbook for anyone chasing their potential. Discover stories, strategies, and over 100 never-before-seen photos. Order Shot Ready. Now at Stefan Currybook.com. Don't miss Stephen Curry's New York Times bestseller, Shot Ready, available now.

So let's back up a little bit to stay chronological. No, it's right. No, no, it's good. But the perspective matters. Yeah. Was the first real thing you decided to do when you went on, all right, so you moved from Atlanta, you're thinking, I've got some free time, what I wanted. Was the first thing, Casa? Yeah.

So two things happened at the same time. Well, I guess Casa came slightly first. So I had always had a kind of part of me that was interested in the foster care system. I've always loved kids. Like I've always said, if I had a million dollars, I'd just have a million kids. kids, but that's obviously not going to happen. Always interested in it. I always wanted a blended family. But of course, that's like one thing to say. It's another thing to do. And so when I was thinking about, okay, I want to get a job in the nonprofit sector, I know nothing about it. I

should probably learn more. That was an easy thing for me to kind of dive into and do. So I signed up to become a CASA. Kasa is a court-appointed special advocate for a child and foster care. The reason I liked it personally was it was a really good mixture of like the mentorship, as well as bringing kind of your professional side into it because you do a lot of case reporting. You have to be very objective. You talk to a lot of people. For our listeners, if you want to hear more about this, you should go to the episode with Aaron Smith. Erin Smith. It was actually our second or third episode was on CASA. But for people who haven't heard it, can you explain it a little bit more in terms of the

you may even know the Genesis story, the judge is overwhelmed and what's the role that these people serve? Yeah. And hit on this point, too, which I think it's most important is that kids in foster care end up getting moved all the time. And while they may have an advocate here or an advocate there, the truth is the judge is really not an advocate for the kid. The judge is an advocate for the whole system. The people involved at the government level in foster care, they're really not an advocate for the kids. Certainly they care about the kid, but they're an advocate for the system. And lost in this is, the most innocent character in the entire cast, which is the kid who doesn't have a consistent

advocate. And that's, I think, the most important part. But I'll just tease that and you kind of explain it. Yeah. I mean, as I understand it, the role of CASA, court-appointed special advocate, sometimes it's also called a guardian atlidum. It kind of depends on what county or part of. The judges recognize that, yeah, to your point, everyone has a specific. lens in which they're viewing a case. The parents obviously have their own lens. The parents' lawyers have their lens. The child does have a lawyer, but usually that lawyer doesn't really know the child. They're kind of just there from like basic legal side of things. And the social workers definitely are there mostly for the kid, but they are also, they have to work within their

systems. So there are things that they can and can't do. There's things that. And they also are overwhelmed. Sometimes I got 20 kids in a docket. Yeah, they're very overwhelmed. they're also sometimes having to navigate between the kid and the foster parents. The foster parents also have their own perspective. And so the point of Acosta is really to be assigned typically to one child. So it is a very deep relationship with one child. Sometimes Casas can have multiple, but typically it's not. And it's really to be the mentor, a mentor, a friend to that child, see them more regularly than some of these other people are able to.

And even if they hop from one foster family to another, you stick with them through. that. So yours is at least one constant. Yes, exactly. And also to communicate with each of those individual parties and provide an objective report to the judge. So where I was Acosta, we had court hearings every six months. So every six months, I was compiling a four or five page report that was fully objective at the top and then had a couple of sentences for like my perspective, but really bringing in the perspectives of all of those different people. So that's what Acosta is. I loved it. It was an incredible experience. It is a lot of work. So this would be one of those things where when I was talking with peers and friends, like it's not something that I necessarily recommend everyone do

because you really have to be willing to invest the time needed to do it. Like how many hours a week a month, what do you say? Yeah. I mean, it's definitely depends. I was probably seeing my kid once a week for a while, some weeks I would miss, trying to talk to the most significant stakeholders about once a month, and then every six months spending, probably spending like five to ten hours writing that report. I mean, it obviously can be more or less thorough depending on the situation. My case was extremely complex, so there was always a lot to cover and a lot was changing throughout the, so I was with the same kid for four years, and throughout At that time, he lived in four different longer-term placements and I think three kind of shorter-term

placements. And I think each placement was a different school. So there was a lot going on. How does a child ever, ever, ever adjust? Yeah. It's challenging. Through that time, I was the only person that was the same from the beginning to the end. We had different social workers.

Obviously, he moved placements. He had different lawyers. Did it get to where he was willing to trust and confide in you, at least? Somewhat. I definitely believe he felt very safe around me and enjoyed, yeah, and enjoyed our time together. I was with him from 9 to 13, so a little bit of a tricky age range. But yeah, I mean, I think he shared more with me than he shared with anyone else. Probably it's tricky for anyone. Did your heart break? Oh, yeah. I mean, there was one foster home that I, the first, so I was part of this was through COVID. So I wasn't always in person, some of my visits. was virtual. And there was one visit, my first in-person visit at one of the homes that I didn't love, but there's not that many foster homes. So you can't always be super picky. I left crying. And I got him out of there as quickly as I could. It was horrible. And I knew, I knew that- What makes it horrible? We're not saying names or any of that. Just what- I mean, illustrate horrible. From what I experienced through being-

and a big part of the reason why I really wanted to become a foster parent myself is I really saw that there were two kinds of foster homes. And one of those really is the homes that are in it for the money, which I know is really hard for people to understand because you don't make a lot of money. But there are a lot of nuances that's probably not worth getting to. But there are families that are in it for that. And some of those are kind of neutral, which I would say some of us, homes were more on the neutral side. They weren't bad, but they weren't great. But this particular one, I don't know if I would classify as emotionally abusive, but it was an emotionally neglectful, for sure, which is very sad because, like a lot of kids who are put into the system, it's through,

it's because of neglect. And neglect can be sometimes more harmful than abuse. And to be in a home that's supposed to be protecting you and to be so, so neglectful and just like adultifying this child. I mean, some of the expectations for him were as if he was like a grown adult and he was, I think, only 11 at the time. And when I tried to talk to the foster parents about it, it was very clear, very quickly it was going nowhere. And you got in your car bawling?

I got, I mean, he basically, before I left, he asked if I could come. could come with me. And I had to say no. And so, yeah, I drove probably 20 minutes of my drive home crying. And I called the social worker, and we got him out of there. And he moved to a new home that was much better, that he did ultimately get a permanent, a permanent spot in. Awesome. Yeah. And as I went off the case, I'm actually, I haven't kept up with him because part of the, part of some CASA programs is that healthy exit of a relationship as well. And as I rolled off, I was able to get him a new CASA that I think would be better for him in the long run. It was a young male, which I think he really needed a male role model.

But at the time, he was in a permanent placement that was expected to be long term. And he had a new CASA. And so I'm hopeful that things are going well. So it was an experience. Four years. Yeah. Because you had a little bit of a passion for kids. You are always interested in foster care.

Yeah. And there was an opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was something that I didn't know a lot about. And I was not sure how much work it was going to be. And this goes into my point of view of the world today. But I still gave it a try.

And it, you know, I went to the training. I wasn't committed to anything when I went to the training. But I went to the training. I liked what I learned. Took the next step. technically I was only committed to working in with him for a year. I think there's, you know, there's different ways. And it just kind of with every next step kind of grew more meaningful to me and to him.

And yeah, it took four years. And it really, the main reason that I even stepped away at the four year mark was it was just getting really difficult geographically to see him in person. He was in a home that was further away. I had moved to further away and I knew that he needed someone who could be there regularly and I really felt like he needed a male role model and so it was a mutually beneficial decision

to step back. I think I needed it for my life but also I think he needed someone else because I just couldn't be what he needed at that point in time. But the point is, this kid had you in his life for four years. Yeah. He was better for it. Yeah. You were better for it.

Yeah. And you didn't start anything. No. You're just a normal person that said, I've lived my normal life. That's it. It's, I love it. Yeah.

So that kind of rolled into other stuff. Yeah. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Melissa O'Neill. And please don't miss part two. It's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change this country. But it starts with you. I'll see in part two.

Hi, Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link. There was no business plan. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age. Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast, Shell Game, on the IHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense.

Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Greatness doesn't just show up. It's built.

One shot, one choice, one moment at a time. From NBA champion, Stefan Curry, comes shot ready, a powerful never-before-seen look at the mindset that changed the game. I fell in love with the grind. You have to find joy in the world. work you do when no one else is around. Success is not an accident. I'm passing the ball to you.

Let's go. Steph Curry redefined basketball. Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed. Shot Ready isn't just a memoir. It's a playbook for anyone chasing their potential. Discover stories, strategies, and over 100 never-before-seen photos. Order Shot Ready. Now at stephen currybook.com.

Don't miss Stephen Curry's New York Times bestseller Shot Ready, available now. Malcolm Gladwell here, this season on Revisionous History, we're going back to the spring of 1988 to a town in northwest Alabama where a man committed a crime that would spiral out of control. And he said, I've been in prison 24, 25 years, that's probably not long enough. And I didn't kill him. From Revisionous History, this is The Alabama Murders.

Listen to Revisionous History, The Alabama Murders on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The courtroom isn't just about justice. It's about power and money and some truly bizarre loopholes. I'm Michael Foote. And I'm Melissa Malbranche, and we've got a brand new show called Brief Recess, Illegal Podcast. Every week, we talk about wild tales from court, trials gone wrong, and cases and rulings that shape our world.

Today we're going to be talking about stolen antiquities, all the weird things Melissa found out in a state sale, the crazy conversations I had with a bouncer and J.K. Rowling. We make the complicated clear and the serious, surprisingly fun. From the Exactly Right Network, new episodes of Brief Recess drop every Thursday. Watch Brief Recess on YouTube. Listen to Brief Recess on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.