An Army of Normal Folks - Who Builds a Pro-Bowler? The Heroic Normal Folks Behind Demario Davis (Pt 1)

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

New Orleans Saints linebacker Demario Davis has spent 14 years in the NFL as one of its most respected leaders on and off the field. We could have talked with him about how he’s a two-time Pro-Bowler and his team’s nominee for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, but instead we celebrated his own Army of Normal Folks who’ve supported his greatness— a single mom who gave birth to him at 16, a grandmother who helped raise him, a chaplain who dared to ask him the hard questions, and a wife who has been his rock. His story will show you how your greatest impact just might be some radical love to those surrounding you!Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's interesting that men try to tell women what to do and men have not birthed any of the creatures. Every man came from a woman. Yeah, the man wasn't telling a woman what to do. But I think about the resilient internal nature of the women's makeup. You think about all the sacrifices and things that they're doing for you and have done for you. At the same time, they're navigating their own internal disappointments, shortcomings, heartache and pains that they've had to. to go through and dear while holding up a family, a loved one, a spouse, a child. We saw that in our moms and my grandma, I think there's no medal of achievement that you can really place

in a higher honor than haven't seen that. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I've been a football coach. and inner city Memphis, and the last part somehow, well, it led to an Oscar for the film about one of my teams. That movie's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits talking big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us. Just you and me deciding, hey, you know what, maybe I can help. And today, we have another edition of our special series, Supporting Greatness,

where we interview not so normal folks like Micro and Medal of Honor recipients, but instead of blowing smoke up their derriers, together we celebrate their own army of normal folks that supported them and shaped their life. This time, it's with New Orleans Saints linebacker, DeMario Davis. who spent 14 years in the NFL as one of its most respected leaders both on and off the field. He's been selected for the Pro Bowl twice, is a longtime team captain, and has been named his team's nominee for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award three different times. I just can't wait for you to meet this guy. DeMario is the truth.

And we'll introduce them to you right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. In 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King's senior. It's the true story of protests and rebellion

in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Manilic Lamouber. Listen to the A building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. segregation and the day integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside.

It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to. Ray, Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power.

They had to crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's Place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's Place on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, Real Doll. The writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda. and the BFG.

But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives

of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Doll got cozy with the Roosevelt's?

Played poker with Harry Truman. and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids.

The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, You can decide who takes home the 26 IHard Podcast Awards, podcast of the year by voting at IHardPodcastawards.com now through February 22nd.

See all the nominees and place your vote at IHartPodcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. So your mom was a single mom and delivered you when she was only 16 years old. And she made the heroic decision to have you.

And your grandma made the heroic decision to raise you while your mom finished school. And neither of them got to have the normal mother or grandmother relationship with you, did they? So imagine this grandmother that has two different dynamics. like she's having to be the enforcer on one hand, but then she's teaching us everything about life and growing us in our faith. I mean, she would have us downstairs reading the Bible. But the impact that it had on me was I saw her in such a light.

You know, for me, she was like an angel. But seeing her in such a high regard, and then the way that she looked at me changed everything. She called me John. So she gave me a different name. She never called me to Mario. She called me John. And she called me John.

It was so impressionable that everybody in the neighborhood called me, John. And she would always say, John, you're special. Like, when I was out of getting trouble, she would say, John, you can't do that. You're special. And she would always remind me if I did something great. And I show her, she was like, John, I told you, you were special. And those words just stuck to me. And it made me realize that my life was set apart.

That no matter what was going on in my environment, that I was set apart for something different, that I was made for something higher. Those words marked me. And it really marked our connection. It was, I know I'm special. Maybe it's because you told me that or maybe because I sense it myself,

but I know that you see me. And that endured me to her greatly and probably shifted how I looked at her. I mean, for me in terms of people, she's in an edge line that it would take a whole lot of work for someone else to kind of get into how I viewed her and how I looked at her. And so she really marked my life. I mean, and then as a kid, I lived with my grandmother until I was in the third grade. So you would, you know, think about a

kid kind of getting out of bed and going to her room as a place of comfort and safety. And I would always see her in her room. She'd be either reading her Bible on her knees praying. And so I had a very vivid picture of what faith looked like at her early age. And, you know, she marked me. And then there was a transition period where I went to live with. with my mother, that took some getting used to because my mother operated very different than my grandmother. In fact, me and my mom kind of butted his a lot when I first moved in with her and I would actually go to my grandmother and my grandmother would kind of pull us to our corners and talk to my mom about how to raise me and talk to me like, you know, you got to work

with your mom in this situation and you have to look out for her. And my mom had me at an early age, She was 16, so she was still finished the house school and then she went off to finish college and so when she came back to get me, you have to think that she's just trying to figure out her own life on top of raising, you know, a young boy on her own. She was just a kid too.

Yeah, yeah, so she's figuring it out. And so I like to think that we kind of grew up together and I think that I began to admire about my mom was, as I got older, was the amount of sacrifices that she was making in her own life to make sure that I had everything that I needed. And she was always working two to three jobs and always making sure that I was in a good setup,

whether I was staying at the house with the neighbors or going and staying with my cousins. She was doing all that she could to make all the ends meet so that I never went without a meal. I never went without shelter over my head. I never went without clothes for school. I never had a lack of anything. It was because she had set her life to decide to make sure that I had everything that I need.

And I think that endured me to her. And that became, so I kind of had this one motivation for my grandmother, which was kind of like an engine and motivating factor of like, man, I got to go do something big in life. Or I'm supposed to do something big in life. That's why God created me. I'm special. I'm set apart. And then it became this thing of, man, I've seen my mom make all these sacrifices and do these,

you know, put her life down. so that I can have what I need. And that kind of became a motivational force of, you know, as I built out my dreams and what I wanted to do in life, man, I want to do this for her. I want to be able to take care of her and make sure that she's set up and doesn't have to struggle like this for us for the rest of her life. And so that became a motivational factor.

And so those two people became the most endured people to me in the world. And I think that set me on a trajectory tool is where I'm ultimately at today. My dad left home when I was young and my mom was married and divorced five times. And despite all of the chaos that surrounded that and the trouble I got myself into as a result of that, I always watch my mom work every day, cook dinner. I played five different sports, constantly somehow trying to balance work and getting me to school and getting me fed and get me in clothes and getting me to practices and picked up and everything. And so when I hear you talk about your grandmother, mother, I, you know, I really identify with that. I get it. And I mean, I hold her on a pedestal because I know how hard she worked that despite.

everything surrounding her life that was chaotic. She made sure I was good. And it sounds like those ladies were the same for you. Absolutely, man. I connect with what you're sharing and I identify with that, you know, just the strong positions and natures of the women that have played parts in our lives. You know, I heard someone say it's interesting that men try to tell women what to do and men have not birthed any of the creatures. Every man came from a woman. Yeah, the man wasn't what to do. But I think about the resilient internal nature of the women's makeup

because you think about all the sacrifices and things that they're doing for you and have done for you. At the same time, they're navigating their own internal disappointments, you know, shortcomings, heartache and pains that they've had to go through endeared while holding up a family, a loved one, a spouse, a child. And you think about that dynamic and you think about what we admire a lot of times in men, especially like in sports, with their internal makeup, their internal fortitude of how much they can withstand and keep going and come out heroes on the other side.

But you just think about the roles that ladies have to play in life. And I know, you know, we saw that in our moms and, and, and, and, and, you know, and, and, my grandma as well. So I think there's no medal of achievement that you can really place in a higher honor than having seen that and allowing that to shape you and how you live and show up in society. No doubt. So first folks along the way, grandmother and mom, we're going to get to a second question about that in a second. But for our listeners, you grew up around Jackson, right? of Mississippi. Yeah, Brandon, Mississippi, you know, right outside of Jackson.

Right. So the most important question I have for the entire interview is, did Ole Miss recruit you, man? Because I don't know. You didn't go to Ole Miss, right? What happened? Why? You're supposed to be an Ole Miss Rebel guy, and you can see my hats. You know why I'm asking.

Yeah, yeah. Interestingly enough, I didn't get recruited by Mississippi State or Ole Miss. heavily. I think they inquired about me, but ultimately the only one that pursued me heavy was was Southern Miss. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, we've launched our first six local service clubs around the country. At a time when only 33% of Americans are contributing in their community at the level that they want to, the mission of these clubs is to make more service easier for everyone. The first six are in my hometown Memphis,

Alex's hometown, Oxford, Wichita, Atlanta, the Milwaukee area, and it's called Ozaki County, and North Duchess County, which is New York. If you live in one of these areas, visit the service club section of our site, Normal Folks. Not Us and get plugged in. And if you don't look, live there and you want a service club in your area, email Alex, because these are the first six,

these are the pilots, but we're going to be doing more. Like other Army members that are launching clubs in their communities later this year, including San Antonio, Lincoln, Nebraska, Huntsville, Alabama, Lincoln County, Ohio, Lorraine County, Ohio. If you happen to live in one of these following areas and are interested, email Alex at army at normalfolks. Dot us and he'll get you connected to them. This is going to be fun. We'll be right back. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone.

America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the board of trustees, including Martin Luther King's senior. It's the true story of protests and rebellion and black American. that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Minilic Lamumba.

Listen to the A-building on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Segregation and the day, integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place,

black and white people danced together. but not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were dressed up in their uniform. The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's place.

A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now, Listen to Charlie's Place on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know Roll Doll, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life.

His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's?

Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger.

than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 26 IHeart Podcast Awards Podcast of the year by voting at IHeartPodcastawards.com

now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at IHeartPodcastawards.com. Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audio books, podcasts and originals all in one easy app. Audible.

There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. I kind of got on a lot of people's radar very late. Now, this is, where I'm growing up is like really before, you know, all these camps are happening and all these different things. And, you know, I didn't have like access to a lot of those things. And I do think that they were sending invites to camps and stuff, but they were sending it to my coaches and it never made it into my hands. But I kind of got into, I kind of got in my own way in high school, you know, my sophomore season, I was the only sophomore on the team that started and

was underclassmen to watch and had a really big year, led our team in receiving yards and return yards. And what would have been my junior year to kind of take off and kind of be the man in between that, my spring year of my sophomore year, I end up getting expelled from school. I was fortunate that my coaching of letting me back on the team, but I think what I did was kind of create hesitation around my coaches and wanting to promote me as a top player on the team or a leader that other guys would follow being that I had such a shaky pass. And I think that kind of got in my way.

So I moved away from being a guy that they really featured, though really talented. I was used much less than an offensive role. And then my senior year, I ended up going to defense. And I don't think I had created enough buzz. going into my senior year to really be able to be followed. And I think, you know, they got on my recruiting trail late, and it was just Southern Miss in Arkansas State. Kind of a tongue-in-cheek thing because anybody's played 10 years in the league,

I know could have helped Ole Miss, and I'm a big Ole Miss fan, Ole Miss grad, but it really is a segue to what you just shared with us about getting expelled. And the question is, given how much your mother and grandmother meant to you, and the sacrifices you saw in their tutelage, you kind of broke their heart in high school a little bit, which, you know, we're not here to beat anybody up, but it's germane to where you are now and what you're doing now for people to understand

that just because you grew up getting drugged to the church and your grandmother doing everything she could, your mother doing everything she could, the path that led you to where you are right now, was not an easy one and some of it was self-inflicted. And that happened, I think, in high school and at Arkansas State, where he ultimately went. So would you share with us kind of how you bounced around between letting your mother's and your grandmother's love of you permeate your soul versus the streets? Yeah, I think it became a real quest for identity of self.

And I think it's so important when you start to create dreams that you don't just think about what you want to become. You think about who you want to become. Because I remember in the fourth grade when I first kind of created a North Star, my uncle asked me, what did I want to do in life? And I was like, I want to go to the NFL. And so that became my North Star. It wasn't to be the North Star.

wasn't to be this great person. It was just go to the NFL. I feel like if I get to the NFL and I'm an NFL athlete, like, that's everything that I want to do in it. And though I knew what it meant to be a good person and I knew who God was, I never really had connected into a relationship with that. And so as I got older, the summer going into my ninth grade year, I'm hanging with my older cousins and, you know, they're doing all the things. They're, you know, smoking weed. They're, you know, drinking. They're going to parties, going to clubs, chasing girls. And so for me being a young man with or a boy on the way to becoming a young man, you know, living with just my mom and no other male figures to give me direction, all my older cousins were the male figures

that I looked to. They were above me. They were that next step. It's like, okay, well, what's the next step in society? They are it. And they all play sports and they're going in the direction. I feel like I want to go. And all my cousins were extremely talented. So they were really good football players. And so I'm like, okay, well, whatever they do, I need to do.

And so that next step became all those extracurricular things. They didn't show me that it was the extra work that you put in. They showed me, this is what we do when we're not playing football, you know, we're hanging out. And so that's what I started to do. And I started to model it. And in my mindset has always been, whatever I'm doing, I'm going to be the best at it. So, which can go negative and positive. Yeah, it's like, if we drink and I'm going to drink the most and show I got the highest tolerance. If we, if we're chasing girls, I'll get the most girls. It's like, whatever we're doing,

it's a competition. And I'm going to be the best at it. And that's, I think, where I started to realize, like, man, if you have influence, that influence can be used negatively or positively. And I think my coaches recognize that. I think my coaches saw that he has a lot of influence. And if we make him or promote him be a leader of the team, it's going to derail where we're trying to go. And so I think that broke my mom and grandmother's heart. It was as my grandmother kind of started to get sick. And, you know, I'm just, my mom, I can see my mom.

I still have every remembrance of like my mom getting sicker. She's getting gray hairs all of a sudden. She's coughing all the time. I think I was just worrying her sick. You know, even before I got expelled from school, I had dropped drugs around her. She had drug testing me. I lied to her and failed the drug test.

And it was just like, what am I good? I think she was trying her best to hold on to me. But she's like, and probably afraid. like, I'm going to lose my son to these streets. And it was happening. And it was nothing that she could do. I think it's very hard for a mom to raise a son on her own, especially when her son is seeing male role models

who are exact opposite of everything that she's trying to teach. And so literally, I'm taking her through the ringer. I think she's saying stuff, all the right things, and trying to reaffirm me and who I am. And, like, why are you doing these things? You are so much better than these things. She always had a very positive spin on everything that she told. But I feel like it was kind of going in one air or not the other.

Later, I realized that she was really planting a lot of seeds down deep. But it just wasn't resonating. It wasn't resonating with my reality. And so, you know, my grades started to slip. And it really wasn't until once I got expelled from school, my sophomore year, I continued on one moment during that summer going into my junior year, I was out and we were breaking in some abandoned houses and I kind of cut my arm and I ended up in the hospital. I remember going and wake my mom up and she just kind of looked like I couldn't sleep.

I knew you were doing something. You didn't have no business. So that's the kind of mindset that she was under at that time. So we go to the hospital and they're stitching me up and the doctor just tells me he's like, son, you are so lucky. And it's not even connecting with me. My life is moving so fast at the time. and he was and I was just I didn't even respond to him but at the same time that he said that

God started talking to me for the first time I heard God's audible voice I don't have a concept of all I've heard is people talk about hearing from God I've never heard from God I always wondered like what are people talking about God talking like what does it sound like it was the first time I heard an audible voice from God and I didn't have a real relationship with him at the time but it was like that strike too and you know I'm kind of a smart aleck or, you know, I always feel justified to put my opinion on my say, so. I'm like, well, what was strike one? And he was like, strike one was you getting expelled from school.

Strike two was you almost lost your life. And I'm like, what I almost lost my life? What do you mean? And literally I looked down and I realized that the mark is on my forearm, on the inside of my forearm and literally six inches down from that is where my wrist is and the depth that it cut, if it would have been down six inches, I would have lost my life. And that's what the doctor was referring to that I was so lucky. And that hit me like a ton of bricks because it was almost as if God was saying strike three, you're either going to be dead or in jail for a long time.

And that moment changed the trajectory of my life from a high school standpoint or up to that point because it literally scared me straight. So from that point on, I didn't even get in any trouble. I stopped all the hanging out. My cousins had graduated, so I was in school solo. But it cleared my head up. I stopped the smoking. I literally went back to being an A and B student. You know, literally I would go to practice and go home. And that's when I started to train after practice because I didn't have any other thing to do. It's either I went to football practice, I did extra workouts and then I went home. And I think that was the birth of when I started to do all the extra work

that it would take to be where I'm at today. And I ended up getting a scholarship and going to Arkansas State. And that literally was the beginning of the transformation. We'll be right back. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson,

locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King's senior. It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Minnick Lamumba. Listen to the A building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Segregation and the day integration at night. When segregation was the law, one mysterious black club owner had his own rules. We didn't worry about what went on outside. It was like stepping on another world. Inside Charlie's place, black and white people danced together. But not everyone was happy about it. You saw the KKK? Yeah, they were just dressed up in their uniform.

The KKK set out to raid Charlie, take him away from here. Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush you. From Atlas Obscura, Rococo Punch, and Visit Myrtle Beach, comes Charlie's place. A story that was nearly lost to time. Until now. Listen to Charlie's Place on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, Roldahl.

The writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a podcast? a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he'd

He took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the winner of the IHeart Podcast Award is, you can decide who takes home the 2026 IHeart Podcast. Awards podcast of the year by voting at iHeartpodcastawards.com now through February 22nd. See all the nominees and place your vote at iHeartpodcastawards.com.

Audible is a proud sponsor of the Audible Audio Pioneer Award. Explore the best selection of audiobooks, podcasts, and originals all in one easy app. Audible. There's more to imagine when you listen. Sign up for a free trial at audible.com. And your mom drops you off at Arkansas State. But it feels like even though you did straighten up that last year and a half, she still had a sense of concern when she dropped you off. And we only are at strike two. So was her concern founded and how'd that all go?

I think she was rightfully concerned. I had just been under the biggest amount of... behavior modification. I didn't realize it at the time, but there really was no heart transformation. I just was scared straight. And I think when you're doing behavior modification, it's only amount of time before the real come back out. And I found that out. So what switched was, I mean, when I was at the high school, everything was comfortable at this point. Like, I was having success on the field. I had me a girlfriend. I was back making good grades. I kind of had everything under control. Well, when I got to college, it's like, starting all over. I'm fourth string on the depth chart. No one knows me. I have no one around me. I don't have that respect and clout that I had achieved in high school. And so it's like a small fish, it's like a small fish in a big pond all of a sudden. And it's like, okay, well, I have to kind of reannounce myself or reintroduce myself. And, you know, I don't only know one way to kind of do that. And the way that I did that was kind of proving that I was tough, proving that I could get

girls, proving that I had a high tolerance when it came to drugs and alcohol, kind of proving to be this macho tough guy. Proving you're a dude. Yeah. Yeah, it was that. And so it was like, okay, well, I got to prove myself all over again. And I fell back into a lot of those same patterns. And I kind of fell into it kind of quickly, back into drugs, back in the party and back into chasing girls, all those different things. And where school wasn't as important. And it was really trying to prove it to those guys in the locker room because it's, mind you, my North Star is just going to the NFL. And so it's like, okay, well, I got to gain the respect of these guys in the locker room. These are the people who I'm trying to prove myself to.

And as I'm going about that, you know, what could have been seeing as tragedy strikes. At the end of my freshman year, I registered my first year. And then that summer, we're on campus and me and one of my teammates go and they're stealing groceries out of Walmart. And it was something that, you know, other players on the team was doing and kind of had, it was when self-checkout had just came on. And we thought it was a pretty good little trick to go in and, you know, get $100 worth of groceries and only pay for $20. And, you know, kind of go back to that same mindset the way that I was wired.

Whatever I'm doing, I'm going to be the best at. And it's like, okay, you guys have figured out a scheme. I'm going to show you how to master. And as that happened, me and one of my teammates got busted. And literally, the police pulled us over as we were pulling. pulling back into our college dorms, and it looked like a big drug bus. They have us in handcuffs and sitting on the sidewalk,

and literally they're taking all of the grocery bags out of the car and putting them in the back of the police car. And it was very embarrassing. But as I look back, I just think about, like, the disconnect that was there. you know, as the police pulled us over and he's like, or stopped us and was like, you guys stole those groceries, you're about to get arrested. My mindset is like, wait, we'll just take the groceries back. The police was like, it don't work like that, sir.

And yeah, so we had to go to court. And I mean, just, again, the disassociation and the disconnect, me and me and my teammate are just kind of sitting there laughing. Like, what if we get time? Like, what if they really lock us up? Not thinking that they would. We're thinking, you know, this is a low level of fans. They're going to give us community service. And, you know, they lock us in jail.

They send us to three days in jail and kind of go through this whole list of, you know, penalties, you know, the payment, kind of the pay for release is going to. to be the length of the probation. And the only thing that stuck with me was three days in jail. And I'm like, wait, you know, kind of the courtroom, my heart sank. And my mom is in there, of course, crying. And there was like this big gap between me and her in the courtroom. It was just like it was an insurmountable gap. There was nothing that she could do.

Like, I'm going into the system. Probably her worst fear, one of my worst fears. And it's like, man, this is happening. And, you know, everything just kind of. all the air kind of came out of the balloon. You know, it was just like, man, what in the world is happening? What, what, what have, you know, I've done? And I'll kind of come back to this.

But now I know all these things about the criminal justice system. Had I not been in a college football player, like that could have caused me to get lost in the system and my life be completely different, right? People go to jail and literally will be waiting six, seven months, months for their trial. Like, they haven't even been found guilty yet. They just kind of get lost in the system, six, seven months.

What that could do to you psychologically if you were able to survive. But even after you come out of that, if you found not guilty and they release you, you've been in jail for six, seven months. What that could do to you psychologically change this trajectory of your life? If I had to miss, you know, six, seven months and wouldn't even play football, I would have changed trajectory in my life. So now I just understand the grace of God so much more and how much I was spared for, But my team essentially bailed me out.

I didn't have to stay right away. I was able to get my sentence and I was able to do my time. But while I was in there, God visited me again. Remind you, there was no real relationship with God. So since that last, you know, scared, straight moment, I haven't heard from God or really talk to God. I just was, I would go to Bible study and do all the things I thought were right. But it was real, no real connection.

And so God visited me again. And, you know, I'm sitting there and scared for my life, all these different things. You're in a room with 50 beds. It's cold. The blanket don't fit. The bed is hard. You got this little bitty pillow that has no fluff in it. You're barefoot.

And, you know, you're kind of in this place that, imagine 50 people, only seven showers. The shower is out in the open. And they bring you three meals a day and they want to let you outside for one hour. That was what I was. confined in and never had been around anything like that or, you know, knew what to do in that situation. And you just thinking, you could be bait. You know, I'm a college student. He's grown men in here. So I'm sitting there and I'm just kind of trying to go through different scenarios of survival in my mind if something was to take place and God business with me again.

I think on, you know, after I've been in there about 24 hours. And he reminds me. He was like, remember our conversation. I told you the next time that you got in trouble, you would be in jail or dead. And go back to my smartly response, it was like, well, God, you said I'd be in jail for a long time. And that was the first time I really heard the term grace. And he said, that's my grace. And I know it was him. I know it was the Holy Spirit because I didn't have a concept of what grace was, which is this unmerited favor of God. God giving us what we don't deserve, and he gave me a shorter sentence. And I kind of came out of that.

That was wrestling in my spirit. And so I started to have these questions to really understand what was God's grace and really having this understanding of, but I have this goal of where I want to get in life, which is the NFL. But every time I take a step forward, it's like three steps back. And this is the first time where I'm starting to realize that it's me, taking the steps back. I'm not blaming like I did in high school my coach or, you know, trying to blame, you know, somebody else for, for my shortcomings. Just the first time I'm really

looking at me. And then I think that's what made way for my chaplain to be situated where he was with where I was in life that, that created space for the transformation to ultimately happen. it's interesting that the sentence of three days on two levels one it's enough to scare the hell out of you but it's not long enough to ruin your life so that feels about right the other thing that's interesting about three days is um i just think about the story of the crucifixion and the importance of those three days come on man oh lord jesus and that can includes part one of our conversation with DeMario Davis. Trust me, don't miss part two.

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