An Army of Normal Folks - Why Half of America Is Socially Disconnected—and What You Can Do About It (Pt 1)

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

More than half of Americans are socially disconnected. But what if the problem isn't so much that we've forgotten how to connect—it's that we've stopped building the kinds of communities where connection naturally happens? In this thought-provoking conversation, Coach Bill Courtney sits down with Aaron Hurst, founder of the U.S. Chamber of Connection, to explore one of the largest challenges facing America today: the collapse of real human connection. After spending his career helping others build community, Aaron had a startling realization at age 50—he had very few close friends himself. That personal wake-up call launched a nationwide mission to understand why so many Americans feel disconnected and what ordinary people can do to rebuild community. Together, Bill and Aaron discuss: The six simple ingredients every thriving community needs Why serving together is one of the fastest ways to build lasting friendships Practical ways you can strengthen your community such as joining the "Welcome Committee" or starting a local Chamber of Connection  This isn't just a conversation about what's broken—it's a blueprint for rebuilding the relationships and communities we all need. If you've ever wished you felt more connected or wondered how to make a real difference where you live, this episode is for you.Learn more and take action: ChamberofConnection.org Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

And I was at a retreat right before I turned 50, and the person who was facilitating the retreat said, what is it you most want in the world right now? Have that come from your gut, not from your head? Like, what comes up for you? And for me, it took half a second, friends. And then he flipped it on me, which was really cool. He said, whatever it is you most want in the world right now

is what you need to give. But the thing that's really different about this, unlike any other cause that I've been a part of, 30% of every population is lonely. So this is, like, unlike any other issue, like it really affects every population. This is not a red or blue thing. It's not a male or female thing.

This is a universal American experience now. Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I'm a football coach in inner city Memphis.

And that last part somehow led to an Oscar for the film about one of my teams. That movie's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever really uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us. Just you and me saying, you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Aaron Hurst, the voice you just heard, has done. Aaron is the founder of the U.S. Chamber of Connection, which is like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce,

but instead of hawking businesses, he's hawking social connection. This, to help solve the massive problem of Americans being socially disconnected from one another, and how we suffer and America suffers because of it. In this episode, you're going to learn about the full scope of the problem, Aaron's solutions that are centered around local communities and how you can be part of that answer. Right now, today. I cannot wait for you to meet Aaron

right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Hey, I'm Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, OnCore. Check out our brand new episodes featuring music from the show that everyone is reheating as we speak. Heated rivalry. Join me as I go behind the songs that brought Shane and Elia together. tell you the stories of Fice, My Moon, My Man, Wolf for raids, I'll believe in anything, and tattoos all the things she said, and how they all became a part of this global phenomenon.

Stream encore on IHeart Radio, crave, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and IHeart Women's Sports. Because let's be real. Women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. Kelsey Finler. She became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii. My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating? The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments

that take over your entire timeline. And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. Naomi Osaka showing out, she beat Sabalinka. Shout out to you, Naomi. You get the palm, Naomi. You get the palm. You get the palm. for that. Because we're not just interested in what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports.

Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week, the news gets worse. The world gets crazier. And Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem. If you come over here to play games, I'm a check you. Okay?

If you do some in the news that don't say, Sound good, I'm gonna play you. Join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast. You're the problem with Yamanika. Do you know I just found out who Sidney Sweeney was? New episodes weekly every Wednesday is part of my new network, the Dear Chelsea Network. If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men. Do better or do less, so I don't have to do so much.

So join Yomeneke each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem? I'm Yamanika, and I'm out. Listen to you're the problem with Yamanika on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that. You're Paul McCartney. It's 1980. You're an ex-beetal, and you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza gangsters and for a ridiculous charge.

Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist Lady Gaga as being accused of doing the unthinkable to, after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous? And what about that time, Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped a serial killer? The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Discrace Land on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Aaron Hurst from Seattle, Washington. Welcome to Memphis. I am so thrilled to be here.

I've never been, and I wish I had a month here. Like, I had so much to do. I love to hear you say that. Everybody, Aaron is the founder and CEO of U.S. Chamber of Connection based in Seattle, Washington, which is crazy something interesting. He's an author. And he started a long time ago a thing called Taproot Foundation, which will kind of talk about throughout this whole thing. Because I think it's germane to your journey, which I find vastly interesting.

and I think our listeners are too. There's so much here that I have to kind of get out of the way and let you go. But let's just start with this as it pertains to the Chamber of Connection. Yeah. You spit your career fighting loneliness, and then at 50, you realize you're lonely. That is. Sadly, it was very true. I think it's a affliction of a lot of CEOs and people who start.

organizations is that you spend this time, whether it's an organization of thousands or just, you know, 10, you spend so much time working on your work. Your relationships tend to be all focused on your work. Plus, I had a family. So when I had spare time, I was spending it with family. And I think like a lot of men my age, you realize you've underinvested in friendship. How old are you? I am 52 now. I'm 57, so I get you. Yeah. No, it's a, it's very real. and it's something especially, I've moved 12 times in my life. And when you move that much,

and I think in America, people do tend to move a lot. I think about 13 million Americans move every year. When you move, you're also just uproot like your whole social scenes. The people I know who are our age and have strong social networks

and friends tend to be people who are in the same place or they stayed in touch with people from high school or from college or some part of their life. But when you're constantly moving, those just get uprooted all the time. And it's really hard to establish

that sense of connection. And I just found myself, like, authentically feeling like I'm not living the work that I'm doing. And I need to focus on how do I actually start to make changes in my life to be able to build the friendship, to build the community. And it's, I think, been a mixed bag. I think I've succeeded in some ways. And in other ways, I'm still struggling. It's interesting. It's like a vegetarian butcher.

Yes. You don't need a very sharp knife for that, though, tofu cuts pretty quickly. But the point is, you spend your whole. time working on an issue, but you don't involve yourself in the issue that you're doing the work on for others, which I think it's a paradox. Yeah, it's like a crazy therapist of which which there are many. I think it is... Well, it's interesting that therapists are among the highest suicide rates in the country. Exactly. No, I think it's, I think it's sort of the entrepreneurship, I think is something just overwhelmed. Like, for me at least, it's

like so fully overwhelming and you just sort of put everything into it because you believe so strongly in what you're doing that you tend to deprioritize things. And I was at a retreat right before I turned 50 and the person who was facilitating the retreat said, what is it you most want in the world right now? So I encourage you to think about like, what is it like you want most in the world right now and have that come from your gut, not from your head. Like what comes up for you? And for me, it took half a second, friends. Really? Yeah, it was like I had, you had, that was it. Friends. And then he flipped it on me, which was really cool. He said, whatever it is you most want in the world right now is what you need to give.

Friendship. Friendship. And I was like, there's a couple different meanings that. One was, how can I be a better friend to the people in my life? How can I make new friends? But also as someone who cares about social change and making a difference, I was like, what does it look like to address the decline in friendship in our society writ large? What role can I play in helping to build friendship writ large?

Because we know that friendship's been collapsing. Social connections have been. collapsing. And I started off in a very simple way. I started inviting people over for dinner. I had 10 to 12 people over to my house every two weeks. Strangers I met on the street, people I just met in meetings and just said, hey, what are you doing next Tuesday night? And no one has plans on Tuesday night, FYI, if they say they do, they're lying, and invited them over, cooked them dinner. And we sat around and talked about connection and talked about friendship in our lives and our journeys and where our struggles were. And I did that every two weeks for the better part of a

year and just hearing people tell their stories and how almost everybody around the table was struggling with the same thing but never talked about it that was my question did you find everybody had the same longing i mean i i wouldn't say it's everyone but like a large number of them especially when sort of in our demographic we're definitely struggling with that definitely people who had relocated from somewhere you're seeing a lot of that happening people who had had a major life change like divorce or something had happened that had broken apart their social scene people who had spent their whole career just working working working and never in invested in that. And they didn't know where to start. And they didn't even know what it meant to build

friendships or social connection because they hadn't been doing it. And COVID had made that horrible situation even worse. So it was really heartbreaking, but affirming at a personal level that I wasn't the only one struggling with this. This is pretty universal. You know, do you have the next door out for your neighborhood? Do you know what it is? I do. Have it. All right. I do too. And I don't look at it much because it's, when it started out, it was great. This neighborhood, lost their cat, let's all go help. And now it's come into, this neighbor has this political sign in the yard, we should burn their house down.

It's like everything else has gotten ridiculous. But the whole point is, on occasion, I look at it. I can't tell you how many times I see a post that says, hey, new comer to Memphis, been here two months, visited the zoo, visited the museum, hadn't made any connections. Would anybody like to go out and go out to eat? And I just think to myself, where are we in society that a person is so disconnected and lonely that they just open up to an app? Yeah. Hey, would anybody like to maybe hang out with me?

And at first, when I first saw those posts, I thought, that is so weird. I would never hang out with somebody. But then when you see them over and over again, you start to realize people are lonely. And then I can't help but think to myself. is through an app without personal, human interaction? Is that what we've become to find friendships? There's got to be a better way. And I really have thought that before ever hearing of the work you've done.

Yeah. And I think it's interesting. And that is by no means anywhere close to a scientific data analytics or driven study. But I think it does say something about the very thing that revealed, that you revealed yourself, what was it, three years ago? Yeah. I think it's, I mean, to your specific question, I think it doesn't take a lot of things to address this.

I don't think any one thing alone is going to solve it because people need to be met in different places that are comfortable to them. But it does feel sad that people are turning to that or they're not finding out, they're trained to AI and just trying to have relationships with artificial intelligence and we're seeing more and more of that happening. It's remarkable, like the stories I hear around

how that's taking over people's lives. But if you look back in time... Do you think that's an addiction? Oh, for sure. I think AI is like, it's kind of like the porn for friendship where I think we've got... That's exactly how I feel about it, too. I think it could become an epidemic. Yeah, I mean, when I have interactions with AI, it's like the, they always think my ideas are great.

They always have interesting insights. They're always willing to talk on a topic much longer than any human being would want to talk about it. So, like, it's easy to get sucked into that. And I've found at moments, again, where I've started to get sucked into that. I have to, like, very intentionally pull myself out of that. Because it's designed, like, these things are all, like, I do a lot of work in Silicon Valley. These things are designed to become addictive. This is not happening by chance.

It is very real. I read that apparently working on loneliness and not having friends is really just kind of how you tick. I read that in San Francisco, once you put together a big old tennis thing, for everybody played tennis and you never played tennis. That's right. Explain that. I mean, what is it about you, dude? That's funny.

I think I love organizing and hosting. Like, that's sort of the thing I love to do. But what you don't realize is that when you do that a lot of the time, you're actually not part of that community. So my wife and I moved into a neighborhood in San Francisco, and I saw these beautiful tennis courts in the local park. And I was like, finally, like, I play tennis as a kid. I'd love to play again.

But I was like, who do I play with? And I did what you just described of your next door version, but it was Craigslist back then. And I posted like, hey, who wants to play tennis at Dolores Park? And just got flooded with dozens, if not a hundred people being like, I'll play, I'll play. And I was like, I can't play with all these people, but I can create something to match them so they can play with each other. And pretty soon, like that court was just, you could never get a court because it was just packed with people. I built like a little matching site for them to find each other.

And so many incredible friendships created that I never played a game of tennis. Like it was insane. And I think that's sort of over and over again. It's like I see a need that comes out of a personal insight, but then you get so busy helping other people that you forget to put the oxygen mask on for yourself. And now a few messages from our gender sponsors, but first, we launched something new that I cannot wait to tell you about. The 10-level challenge is a personal service journey that you can go on with clear, actionable steps, that's the 10 levels, to deepen your service over time. It's like the hero's journey for service. And no matter which level you get to,

I think you'll find that your community will be somewhat better and you will be a whole lot better as service transforms ourselves more than anyone. And get this, if you're among the first 1,000 people to complete the 10 levels, we'll even mail you a free and exclusive t-shirt about crushing the challenge. Check it out and sign up today at

10 level challenge.org. Just the number 10 level challenge. Dot org. I hope you guys will check it out. We'll be right back. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it. Do we want to jump right in? Watch all your favorite podcasts from start to finish right inside the free IHard Radio app. Make some noise.

Wooee! Catch every laugh and eye roll on shows like Bestie Listen. Hey Jonas and Las Culturistas. with full video. I'll just leave that there. It's the same hosts and the same chemistry with all the hilarious moments

you've been missing right on your screen. Open the free IHard Radio app. Search video podcasts and tap watch. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and IHart Women's Sports.

Because let's be real. Women's Sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii. My first thought is like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating? The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire timeline.

And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. Naomi Osaka showing out, she beat Sabalinka. Shout out to you, Naomi. You get the palm, Naomi. You get the palm for that. Because we're not just interested in,

what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week, the news gets worse. The world gets crazier and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem. If you come over here to play games, I'm a check you. Okay? If you do some in the news that don't sound good, I'ma play you. Join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast.

You're the problem with Yamanika. Do you know I just found out who Sidney Sweeney was? New episodes weekly every Wednesday is part of my new network, the Dear Chelsea Network. If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men. Do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. So join Yamanika each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem? I'm Yamanika, and I'm out.

Listen to You're the Problem with Yamanika on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that. It's 1980. You're an ex-Beedle, and you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza gangsters and for a ridiculous charge.

Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist Lady Gaga as being accused of doing the unthinkable to after allegedly stealing her music and style to become famous? And what about that time Blondie's Debbie Harry? escaped a serial killer. The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Discrace Land on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something I really appreciate about you. And I mean, look, I'm a host of a podcast in this world. But pragmatically, I'm a football coach. Yep. And if you're going to be any good of football, you spend a lot of time on film. Yep. You spend a lot of time learning what the opposition is doing defensively and offensively

and on special teams to give your team the best leg up. It's analytics. Yep. It's really what it is. That's right. And I don't think people think in terms of data and analytics when they think of football. They may think of just big guys beating on each other and sweating, but there's an enormous around a cerebral activity in analytics and data analysis that goes behind what your plan is that you work on, Monday through Thursday to implement, to install into your kids so that on Friday they have the best chance to be efficient and have success. I love that show, The Quarterback on Netflix. I don't know if you saw that, but it sort of showed these NFL quarterbacks and like

what their full week was. And I would fit into that category you're talking about. I was like, they probably just hang out all week and then they show up for the game. No. Or maybe they hit the weight room and show up. And then you saw what these quarterbacks are doing during the week and these binders and the film and like how much hard work they were putting into it. that gave me such a different appreciation for the game.

Think about what the coaches have to do to put that together for the kids to have that. Unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. And then in my business, I'm in manufacturing and commodities, and we do business in 42 countries across the world. So I'm constantly dealing in analytics and data and interest rates and all kinds of stuff, right? So I have an appreciation for someone who doesn't just say, oh, we have a problem.

I feel like this is what we need to do, but someone actually studies it. So with that background, before we get into, you found a chamber of connection in 2024, but before we get to the solutions that you've started to come up with, which I find genuinely fascinating, Let's diagnose the problem, as you did in your great report, titled The Six Points of Connection. I think the work that you did to understand the problem first before you decided to go try to fix it is so very vital, so very interesting. And I really want to just shut up and let you go through kind of the six points of connection report, how we're socially disconnected, and the data and the study you did. to get to how do I work on solving it? Because I think it just makes the whole work you're doing incredibly valid.

No, I love data and I love research. And I love just the curiosity of trying to figure out, like, how does this Rubik's Cube fit together? Even before doing that study, I went back and analyzed it. I had done phone calls with 2,157 people around the world to understand what's going on. You did what to 2,100 people? Had phone calls with them. Like I...

What do you mean? Just called them up? I would talk to you. you and I'd be like, okay, who else do you know I should talk to? You give me three names. I talked to them. I was just, who are the experts? Who are the individuals? Who wants to talk about this? I logged over 2,000 calls, just trying to hear the stories on top of my dinners to understand, like, what existing researchers were doing. Like, I just wanted to understand and get my head around it. And then out of that, we commissioned a study to be able to look at it from a quantitative standpoint

and look at, like, what's actually going on here. And what had come out of those calls was that there really are six things that people need to do in their lives to thrive in a sustainable way. It's like one thing to have a great day, but to have a lot of great days and to also be part of a community in which everyone is thriving, not just you. So a lot of this work around connection is very focused on the self. And it's very self-help oriented versus being about service. And I think you and I both have that same point of view. Like this all starts with service.

So we found there were these six everyday things that are the things that we need to build into our society. And I think of them the equivalent like with food. Like, we all know we should eat. We also socially know there's breakfast, there's lunch, and there's dinner, and then we snack in between, right? But when it comes to connection, like, there's no formula, there's no model for how to do that. So we found it's about six things. Having a neighbor you can contact an emergency. Having a community of people who have shared values and experiences as you.

Having at least two meaningful one-on-one interactions like you and I are having right now every week. Being able to have a third place or a third space that you can. go to outside of your home. That could be a church, a synagogue, a Starbucks. I met someone who, their commuter bus that they go on every day for 45 minutes each way is actually become that for them. But they have that place where they see similar people. It's about having a community of play, which I know you're an expert in, among other things, having a place where you come together to actually do an activity that you love doing together. And we actually found that was the most important way to connect people. More than anything else is to get people doing activities

together that they love because it starts to actually break down issues around trust. It starts to open people up and it has a consistent rhythm. Like you've got your football game every week. There's a rhythm to that. And the final one was community service volunteering. And what we found when we did the study was, A, the majority of American adults are not doing any of these. We found across the board, like people are not doing these basic practices that we all sort of

intuitively know we should be doing. And they're all things we did as kids, but we just stopped doing them when we became grown-ups. A lot of what we find in this research is we just need to be more like kids again, that we had it right. And then when we like play adult, we actually lose a lot of our, our humanity. What we found is that roughly 52% of American adults right now are at risk or vulnerable when it comes to social connection. Say that again. Fifty-two percent of American adults are either at risk or vulnerable when it comes to social connection. So half. Half. One and two. So that's the guy that you mentioned on Next Door. He's not an anomaly. That's now

the American experience, that sitting at home, sort of wishing there was someone to go hang out with, or what I call invitation chicken, where you and I are both hanging, like, sit in our home, being like, I wish you'd call me. And he's like, I wish you'd call me. It's the invitation chicken. Did you invent that? Oh, my God, that's hilarious. Aaron, did you invent that phrase? I have no idea if I invite him.

Why aren't they calling me? Yeah. And I'm like, why isn't he calling me? And then nothing happens. Why don't you look at the mirror and say, well, why don't I pick up the phone? Like I'm saying, yeah. Chicken, that's great. But it's exactly what happens, right?

I mean, you've probably been on that experience. You're like, ah, a friend of mine actually invented a little app. He's called the bat signal, and he gave it to people who are in the neighborhood as guy friends. And when they go to the bar, they press the bat signal. And it notifies all of them at, like, Batman is at the bar if anybody wants to come. And it's been, like, wildly successful, just, like, signaling and getting over that invitation chicken. So I just thought that was a genius solution. How in the world did you at 50 have no friends?

You're hilarious. I can't believe anybody was staying around you. If I lived in Seattle, I'd be your friend. If I lived in Memphis. Okay. No, and I think that's part of the point is it's not about the person. It's about the structure and the lives we've created.

No, I get it. And I think we didn't, but I do think it's important to say because I think a lot of society thinks the issue has to do with people who are unattractive in some way or you don't want to hang out with them. And we put a stigma on them. It's like there's winners and there's losers.

And it's like our middle school mindset. and we apply it again to adulthood. But the reality is, there are people who really struggle with connection, have deep psychological needs that need help. But the majority of them are just everyday Americans who have not put the time into it. They don't know where to get started. Maybe COVID took them off track. Maybe they've worked too much.

Maybe they're working three jobs. Maybe they're just busy raising kids. And they haven't invested in friendship. And they find themselves suddenly waking up and being like, I don't know who to call. I don't know who to go hang out with. And it's just sad because up and down their street, probably every other person is having the same thought. Not probably. They are.

They are. They are. They are. They are. Yeah. And it's like such a intuitively simple problem to solve, right? Like, we just need to find a way to get these people out of their homes and, like, be honest about it and, like, start to connect with each other. So the data from the report, like, really shine a light on that.

It also pointed to what people reported were the barriers to connection. And the top, the top barriers, I'm too busy. And I'm tired. And I think that's real for a lot of people. I also think we have a culture where there's sort of a, it's sort of a badge of honor to say, like, how are you doing? Oh, I'm so tired. I've been working so much. Like, that's just sort of like a social norm in a lot of communities. You know the beginning of that's even more important. Tell me. Well, when I see you walking down the thing or in the morning at work and I say, hey, man, how are you? That's hello. That's not, I really give a shit how you are. That's right. So please don't unload all of your trouble. on me when I say, how are you? Just say, I'm good. How are you? That's not what

friends do. So signaling busy is like giving you the Heisman. Yeah, but the question itself, you just understand. You know, you know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, go ahead. I like that theory. That's a good, a good origin story. Yeah, it is. Yeah, of that. But I think another piece of it I find.

Like, I talked to someone like, oh, like Alex says, I'm like super busy. Like, I'm so tired. I'm like, how many hours of Netflix did you watch yesterday? How much time did you spend scrolling on social media, and the answer is never zero. So I think it's a prioritization issue and a cultural norms issue around that, because we find our self-worth is based on how busy we are, which is not the right way to frame that. The next two, though, that were correlated to being, helping you actually

have social connection, people said, I don't know where to start, but I don't know where to start. They're, like, just overwhelmed by it. They don't know where to start. The friend you talked about the next door, like, he actually had the courage at least to start. People don't know where to start. And the second one is, I see things I want to go do in town. Like, I see the ballgame, I see the museum, these things I want to do. I don't want to go by myself, though. That's awkward. I'm uncomfortable. So these are sort of the two biggest challenges we see beyond the sort of tired piece, which is a bigger challenge. How do we help people know where to start and how do we enable them to not go and do it by themselves? And that to me is really reassuring because what that

tells me is this is something we can solve. This is not one of these challenges where it's like we have no idea how to fix it. Like we know how to fix it. The other thing that was really encouraging in the data is we saw life transitions matter a lot. When you go through a life transition, you actually are reevaluating your identity. Like, oh, I'm now a podcaster. I am now whatever it is. I am now, you know, a Seattleite. I am now someone who's struggling with cancer. I am now a parent. Like whatever those life changes are, it causes us to go through that model thinking about who am I and how do I want to show up. So you're open to change. And you're often open to meeting new people and different people. Because suddenly, like, the people that you

were hanging out with may or may not be able to meet all of your needs because you are in a different context. And we see this as sort of these critical moments. Half of Americans, one and two Americans, goes through a major life change every year. So we're in this constant state of change as human beings. And during those moments are like how we can best help people, I believe. And what we saw on some of the data was there's certain life changes where we actually have the infrastructure to support people. So when you started a new job, there's a whole process to help you become part of that community, right? If you start at school, there's a process for helping you with that. And I don't know if you've ever been to one of these parties that they do. They're

these great parties where two families come together when two people are getting married. They called a wedding. And they actually become friends. And they actually have an intentional process of building connection. But like, we don't have weddings for other life changes, right? Like, that's the only one. So we see when these things. changes, we actually see a change in the data. People actually are building more connection versus less. So we know, again, how to solve for this. We need to treat every life change, like starting a new job or like getting married and build the rituals that used to be there, I think, when there was more of a faith-based structured community, but we've lost a lot of

that. We need to bring that back into our society if we're going to address this at the scale that's needed. We'll be right back. I'm Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, Encore. Check out our brand new episodes featuring music from the show that everyone is reheating as we speak. Heated rivalry. Join me as I go behind the songs that brought Shane and Elia together. I'll tell you the stories of Fice, My Moon, My Man, Wolf Parades, I'll Believe in Anything, and tattoos all the things she said, and how they all became a part of this global phenomenon. Stream encore on IHeart Radio, Crave, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Bonus episodes Thursday And rewinds on Sunday On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts Going back to something you said Real quick You said People don't know where to start.

Yeah. Alex and I've been doing this together for three years. Yep. One of the biggest impediments to people engaging in service. First of all, only a third of Americans, here's our data. Only a third of Americans say they're engaged in their communities at the rate at which they'd like to be. Yep, that's right. The biggest impediment is they don't know where to start.

Yep. It's the same context, the same exact thing, just a different context. And they don't usually want to do that on their own. Like they're willing to serve, but they'd be better if they're asking them. do it on their own. They're not. Right. Because it's awkward.

It's weird. It's lonely. Yeah. And you just, we see that a lot with even just events. Like we'd work a lot with community builders, people who have running clubs, etc. They don't always welcome people into them effectively. So you're like come to it as a new person. And it feels like one of those junior high school clicks and you're on the outside of it.

And we're not always welcoming people even into those. And I think same thing with volunteering. I'm surprised and service how many of those experiences actually don't do a good job of bringing people into them. and like understanding the psychology, what's going through someone's mind, what's going through their heart, as they're entering that room often by themselves. That is literally something Alex is working diligently on trying to figure out right now for us. Love it. It's not about us, but it's just they're interesting.

I got to tell you, I find it really interesting that you noted that the breakdown of weekly, or regular attendance at houses of worship have broken into some of this. And you said, I think if I'm quoting you right, we need to bring more of that back. Yeah. Are you faithful? Not in a traditional structured way. Yet you think that that's an important part of fixing our society. That's interesting to me.

When I find someone who like deeply authentic- Of course, it could be like the tennis thing. Yeah. That may be my curse. But when I find someone who's like just deeply connected and not just that they're busy, but like you can feel it in their body, like, they're just someone who like is connected to community, connected to the world and has just that like confidence around connection. Inevitably, like they are a regular sort of person of faith who goes to church, synagogue, etc.

Like it's very rare that I meet someone like that and that's not the case. It's because it has... So it's just an intrinsic observation on your part. For sure. And it's also because these religions have been evolving over hundreds and thousands of years. And they didn't have behavioral scientists like 2,000 years ago. So they just tried, they did trial and error. But if you actually look at all the best behavioral science, it points to what a church does.

Because churches did it intuitively by just practicing to figure out what the model is. But the good ones do it the right way. It's like it's a standing ritual. So everybody knows it's a people are well. when they show up. They help people find things to do in common outside of just sort of services. They're involved in community service as part of the ethos and the group. They support sort of the full family and bring that in as a unit versus just the individual, etc. So we can have plenty of challenges and certainly with certain churches, et cetera, but at the end of the day, like that's a

2000-year recipe that we came pretty close to perfecting. It's just not what everyone's doing. I'd actually like to ask you about who seems to do this best to me. And I'm curious if you studied them as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the LBS Mormon Church. And like, speaking of your point about welcoming people, and I've heard stories from other friends who are. And it's like, you moved to a town, and they got 50 people showing up helping you unload.

It's true. And I wish our Catholic Church were like that, and it's not. And the other thing I hear you, when I hear you saying, I know I read this on the plane last week, screwing around on my phone. but it was some article about how there's a resurgence in young people in the Catholic Church in Manhattan. Yep. And what's weird is they said, many are there coming for the faith.

Most are coming for the relationships and finding faith after developing the relationships because it's a place that they can go to meet people. Yeah. That's crazy. It's exactly what you're saying. No, and I think we've got a great church in our neighborhood and the deacon and ask me to come and, like, be part of their Christmas service, which as a Jewish Buddhist, I was like very foreign to me, but I was like, I'm always up for any new experience. And I'm generally a yes guy.

Like, I say yes to things. And I went, and I am not a person of Christian faith, but like, I immediately just the warmth in that place, like, seeing how people were connecting across generations, seeing the degree to which people are caring for each other. And I asked him, like, what was the key to it? And he shared a lot of things. But one of it was, like, he doesn't care where you are on the faith. journey. Like, everyone's welcome. And if all you're getting out of his community, like, that's

okay. Because he has faith that that is going to lead to something else. Or if that's what you need and that's where you are in your journey, like, that's what's meant to be. That's exactly how a Christian is supposed to view it. That's right. Yeah. That's it. That's so simple. But the point is, let's take Christian and church out of it. Yeah. What if we just as human beings approach one another that way? Now you're just talking Christian. Crazy. But that's the point, right? Behind what this data says.

I want to read some of this and let you just pontificate on it. All right. I'll get a drink. 27% of people lack reliable social support. 50% are not thriving. I think you've said that one. Here's the one. 45% don't trust others.

I have a question about that one. Yep. 45% of people don't trust. others, 54% uninterested in connecting across difference, which I think those two have something in common. Indeed. 55% feel politically disempowered, which leads me, so that's your, that's your data. Yep, that's right.

How much does our political climate in your mind pay into this disassociation with friendships that we're dealing with today? I mean, they all feed off each other. Like, I think it'd start with just social connection itself. When people are lonely, the studies show they actually, like, lose the ability to have empathy. And they did a study I read about a while ago where they... Wow, that's interesting. When people are lonely...

Yeah, your biological system shut down around... And so they lose empathy for others. Is it because it, for lack of a better term, it's because they feel sorry for themselves, there's no room for others? No, I don't think it's about that. I think it's actually about a muscle. It's like an atrophying. Oh, really? So they lose that social ability.

The socialization. And the example they gave, though, was just really vivid was, let's assume you're lonely, I'm not, and we walk in a room, and they tested us and they, both of us saw someone stub their toes. Alex stubbed his toe. The non-lone person winces, right? Because you have that immediate reaction, like, oh, like, that's got to hurt. The lonely person often doesn't wince.

Like, that's an example of how biologically we start to change when we get lonely. That's fascinating. And then you say, like, oh, okay, like, How do we help bridge divide indifference? I'm like, if someone's lonely, like, you've got to start with the dress and the loneliness before you're worrying about bridging difference or bringing people together politically. So I think we had with social media and COVID, like, we just got all these people who lost a lot of their empathy.

And we had another group of people who found connection through basically creating these really tight groups around shared values. And we found more and more connection through having more and more polarized points of view because it made us feel connected to something. it gave us a sense of purpose to have a group of people who have a strong shared point of view and a sense of belonging to that group. So you have these two things that are reinforcing the sort of overall change in our political landscape. And what was fascinating when we dug into that data, I don't remember the exact data, but we asked people like specific areas of difference and would you be willing to talk to someone of this difference versus this difference. It was wonderful to see the vast majority of people across race, not a problem.

Like, they're all about it. But when it came to issues around religion and around politics is where we saw just fell off a cliff. Not willing to discuss. People are just not interested, which I don't understand. Like I just find... I think that's the most interesting conversations there are. I always look for like the... Like in college, I went and worked and volunteered in a prison.

I'm like, I want to talk to people who had a different life experience. I find it so fascinating. But there's a lot of people are just like, no, I'm not interested in connecting with someone who's different than me, which is mind-boggling. But again, if we assume half of people are in this sort of state, somewhere on that loneliness continuum, and they're sort of losing that empathy. And they're finding connection. And where they are finding connection is by becoming part of like an insular team that doesn't talk to others. That's powerful.

They don't want to break that. It goes to the comment earlier about sort of the Mormon community. Like I think there it's a good example out. It's very tight. Like in terms of so much of this, like they crush it, right? But when it comes to bridging, there's a lot less of it, right? Because it becomes so insular. And I think that's what we've seen in our political system is like people are trying to basically create the Mormon community, but around their political ideology.

And therefore there's no space and willingness to go beyond. It's become evangelical as a political stance out of that. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Aaron Hurst. And you don't want to miss part two. It's now available to listen to. Together, guys, we can change the country. And it starts with you. I'll see in part two.

On Raiders of the Lost podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on Project Hail Mary. It was like the Jaws shark. Didn't always work, came with its own problems. That's what made it great. The cast of obsession. On set, there was so much magic happening with each scene we were putting together. Deep dives into classics like 2001 of Space Odyssey or Fight Club, plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And for more, follow at Raiders of the Lost podcast and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together in IHart Women's Sports. We're breaking down the biggest headlines. Naomi Osaka, showing out. Shout house to you, Naomi. The viral moments.

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