An Army of Normal Folks - Why Your “Safe Life” Isn’t Actually Safe (Pt 1)

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

If every part of a community doesn't have the opportunity to flourish, the community can't flourish. Violence will penetrate your safety and all of us will suffer. Greg Spillyards felt convicted to shift from transactional real estate that made him more money to projects focused on transforming Memphis' forgotten places. And his story will show you how to make a deeper impact without leaving your career.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I think we're at an inflection point for Memphis and for Detroit and for New Orleans and Atlanta and anywhere else where either you get engaged or just go. You're not going to be able to live in Memphis and pretend like you're in a bubble. If you think you're removed from the violence or you're removed from the injustice of a less than excellent education experience, if you think you're removed from that, just wait. You won't be able to get people to show up to serve you at your restaurant. You won't be able to have employee people in a grocery store. I still think I can go to my house on Friday afternoon and create the world I want and to hell with everybody else. And that has to change.

Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband. I'm a father. I'm an entrepreneur. And I'm a football coach in intercity, Memphis. And that last part somehow led to an Oscar for the film about one of my teams.

That movie's called Undefeated. Guys, I believe our country's problems are never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks. That's us. Just you and me deciding, hey, maybe I can help. That's what Greg Spilliards, the voice you just heard, has done. Greg is a normal real estate guy who felt convicted to do something else with his life. And rather than ignore it and just keep on making money, and rather than abandon it and do something else altogether, he transformed it from transactional to mission-driven real estate,

showing us a path to consider for our own lives. I cannot wait for you to meet Greg right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast. Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it?

I completely forgot about it. And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City superfan, Megan V. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go sit New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault.

Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Amy Roboc alongside TJ Holmes from the Amy and TJ podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact, what's fake, and sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J. podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity,

the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about, and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Cougler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You meet the president?

You think Canada has a president. You think China has a president? Does law a crusette. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep.

It was a good one. I like that snake. It is an actual Polish saying. It is an actual Polish saying. It is an actual poem. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time.

I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Poll show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a... is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman.

You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches.

I'm on a landmine. Or freedom! Let's get out! Freedom's vomit! Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything.

Listen to Saigon on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Greg's Billiards. How are you? I'm good. Good to be here. How was your flight in? It was a little bumpy, actually. Yeah, as little bumpy as I hit airways. The final approach was a little, and it's something that... I think the ice storm wreaked havoc on our roads around this town.

Yeah, I hear there's a rumor they're going to repave it. I hear there's a rumor. Yeah, I know. I keep seeing like, it seems like such a waste of money and time that you get, they typically put maybe 12 or 13 guys on one dump truck. Yes. All, and they got 12 or 13 guys on one dump truck with two shovels and a steaming pile of asphalt that's getting hard by the end of the day. It really breaks down it doesn't even good. The truck stops, 13 guys stand around while two of the guys, I'm pretty sure they draw

straws for who actually gets the shovel, throw some stuff in a, in a pothole, I think a couple guys like step on it to kind of make it kind of mash and they drive off the next do you have to fight the urge to stop and tell them that this isn't going to work it's really not them because those four guys are just doing what they're told what I want to do is call the mayor go to city works and say this is why nobody trusts government because you guys got 13 people two shovels on a dump truck full asphalt is doing absolutely this is your solution You guys Here's your sign

Anyway He actually drove here to the interview He drove to the interview Just saw our guests are in on the joke That's what I'm trying to get to you And that's why I said it was bumpy Because I was on the road You need to understand something

Remember the Wizard of Oz And they get to Oz And the wizard is this flaming thing And everything but really it's this This kind of this butthole behind a curtain That's Alex So just ignore him.

Just pretend like there's a curtain. I think it's great. Can I look at him while I'm talking? You're welcome to. Cajna, I look over there at him. You're welcome to look at him. You're absolutely welcome to look at him. And as you look at him, you need to think,

remember, he broke up with his girlfriend last night. Are you serious? Yeah. Couldn't grief. Look, he tore up about it. Well, it's the final straw. Is this part of the interview? Is this on the podcast?

It is part of the podcast. This is absolutely part of the other. I'm not going to say the final straw, though. I think we should move Alexer. Yeah, don't say what the final straw was. We might get sued on the final straw. We're not going to talk about it, whatever. No, I am back in.

Yeah, I drove here. He's reactivated on Tinder. What would you say, Greg? I did. That is important to note for record. It is. Very important. What's your name on there?

Craig might have good leads for me. I did drive here. Yeah. And I felt like I was driving back into an old neighborhood. that changed my life. I love to hear that. So everybody, Greg Spilliards, is from Memphis. This is the, all of this is just to make the point that he didn't fly here.

He's a Memphis guy. He is the CEO of Cushman and Wakefield Commercial Advisors, which will explain what all that means. And he did not start some massive 501c3, but what he has done is had a really interesting life of awakeningment. and service, and he has done exactly what we talk about all the time that the Army of normal folks needs to do, which is simply look around in their communities, see area need, and work to fill them. And in that regard, he's a quintessential guy that's an Army of Normal Folks, and we think his walk through life is interesting, and so we're going to share it with you. Hopefully, you'll find it interesting, but also inspirational in terms of

our greatest calling of just seeing areas of need and filling them. Greg is a guy who has done just that, and if he can do it, anybody can. So we'll start with, at 36 years old, you decided to put aside your promising real estate career and enter the seminary, which makes you absolutely insane. You had zero plan with what you really wanted to do with a seminary degree. What on earth were you thinking, and why did you do that? At 36. That's a great question. That's a great question. and probably making money. I think I was 30. I was younger than 36.

I was 32. Okay. Well, then Alex is props. Yeah, he advanced me about four years. Yeah, I was 32. And I was in the meet of early career. Commercial real estate. Commercial real estate.

I was working for a local company, CBRE, who, you know, is like... What's that an acronym for? Well, at the time, it was CB Richard Ellis. Okay. And I could go into a whole story of the CB and Richard Ellis. But I worked for them for 10 years. I started with them in 2001. They're actually, they're technically a competitor of ours, but in this, in this industry, we are peers and competitors.

We work across the table from one another, but then we also have a lot of respect for one another, and I have a lot of respect for everyone at CBRE. I had started there at 01, and I was... That's interesting. That's the year I started my business. Oh, really? Yeah. Because Jeb and I were trying to, we were talking about that. yesterday. Well, Jeb Fields, everybody is, he works for you now.

Yeah. He's one of our... And Jeb actually is the son of a former Memphis lumberman and a really good name in our industry, Fields Lumber Company. Jeb worked with his dad for a short period of time. And his dad's retired, and Jeb went into commercial real estate about 10 years ago, and Jeb is now selling me a building. So I don't know how we got into that, but that's who Jeb is. So in 01, you start your business. I started CBRE. Got it. I was the youngest person on the team.

I was low guy on the totem pole. I was all excited about being a commercial real estate broker. I thought that was the only job to do in commercial real estate. I was doing my cold calls. I was doing everything that was being asked of me. But then 9-11 happened. Things shifted. I opened September 1 of 2000.

Yeah. Right. I mean. Spend every time I had. And then 10 days later. Right. the world changes. It did.

And we didn't know how it was going to change, but for a moment, everything just sort of paused. And for me, I think I was 24. Yeah, I was 24. I knew that I would not be doing many transactions that was going to go to the established brokers.

I went to my bosses at CBRA. I said, I need something to do that approved my worth around here. Plus, I'd like to continue to learn. And if I can't, learn through a transaction, what can I do? So they put me in property management. This is all leading to your question.

So I started working in property management. I was really, really bad at it. Property management means overseeing rental property. We were overseeing commercial real estate. They put me on two brand new, one office strip center over on Kirby Parkway on by Walter Wills and another building Champion Hills on Winchester, which both were in like South both both were like non-kina 385 corridor of Memphis and both were completely vacant when I took them over their commercials so we were least those listening yeah across the vast

majority aren't from Memphis this is old commercial slash probably light industrial areas that have been around in Memphis forever and white flight and degradation and all kinds of other things has left a lot of these places largely vacant and really kind of dilapidated. And now a few messages from our generous sponsors, but first, our six local service clubs are rolling, and we'd love to invite you to either join one or be a part of a team to help start another one in your own area. At a time when only 33% of Americans are contributing in their community at the level that they want to, the mission of these clubs is to make service easier for everyone. The first six clubs are in Memphis, Oxford, Wichita, Atlanta, Azuki County, which is...

Ozaki. The first six are in Memphis, Oxford, Wichita, Atlanta. Where is it? Ozaki. Ozaki County. Which I think is New York, right? Nope. Where's Ozaki?

John Norman's outside of Milwaukee. Oh, that's Milwaukee. And then Northern Duchess County, that's New York. That's in New York. That's where they are. If you live in one of these areas, visit the service club section of our site, normalfolks. com, and get plugged in. It's easy.

And there's Army members exploring launching service clubs in their communities later this year. Those cities include Knoxville, San Antonio, Huntsville, Auburn, Washington, D.C., Lincoln, Nebraska, Licking County, Ohio, Lorraine County, Ohio. If you happen to live in one of these areas that are interested in helping, just email Alex at Army of Normalfolks.us, and he'll get you connected to them. Or, if you want to begin the process of rolling one of these things up in your community, you can also email Alex. Let's do this, Army members.

We'll be right back. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it? I completely forgot about it. And when the show was picked up, I paid.

And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City superfan, Megan B. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go sit New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Amy Rovock alongside T.J. Holmes from the Amy and T.J. podcast.

And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact, what's fake, and sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J. podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about, and they are experts at everything.

Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Kugler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean the president? You think Canada has a president. You think China has a president.

Does law crusette. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one.

I like that. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah. It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift,

who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country.

From My Heart Podcasts, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a head.

from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. Or freeze on. Let's get out. Freedom, mommy.

Nile! Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So I was terrible at property management. It was not my forte, but they didn't have anybody else to manage the property. So I did that for a while. How do you manage a property that's empty? What do you do, drop by and look at it? Yeah. There's nothing to manage. We had contracts for keeping the grounds clear and, you know, making sure that they didn't,

they remained vacant and didn't have people moving into them. The copper stayed on them. Yeah, the copper stayed intact. But, you know, it was just, it was a very, simple job. I was still trying to do the brokerage thing, but then in 2002, our, like the VP of development at CBRE was diagnosed with cancer right after we were awarded a massive project. We were awarded the construction of the Concord EFS headquarters, which at the time was, it was a $48 million construction job. We were awarded the job in the next day he was diagnosed,

and it was going to take him out for a season. So they come to me and they say, Greg, we need you to manage all of the tenant infill construction for CBRE across all of our portfolio while we give this other assignment to a more seasoned professional and you're going to be doing all this and the person who knows how to do it is going to be decommissioned for a bit and so he was going to get treatment out of town I knew nothing about construction that was not my I was thrown into the fire. And the beauty of it, between the property management and the construction, I learned about the assets. I learned about the physical space. I learned how properties operate. I learned about budgeting. I learned a lot about just the nuts and bolts of the commercial real estate industry.

And I knew that it was about more than just a transaction. You know, we were pushing for a return for our investors. We were trying to sustain real estate and maintain it in a prudent way. And while I say I was terrible at property management, I mean, I learned a ton during that season. I learned that I did not, I was not the person to do that for the rest of my life. But what that provided was just this comprehensive experience in commercial construction and estate management. We're three miles from the Memphis International Airport. That set me up for the opportunity that would ultimately change my life, which was an assignment right down the street from here. We're sitting right off Brooks Road.

Yeah. Fast forward to 2007, an investor out of Texas had acquired 3 million square feet of what I would call third, fourth generation industrial space along Brooks Road. Majority of it was along Brooks Road. They wanted to hire a seven-person team to oversee this real estate. They wanted someone to be ahead of leasing.

They wanted a property manager, maintenance techs, and assistance for the management and the leasing. And they wanted us to office on Brooks Road. And that was the deal breaker for me. I was at the time in an office at South Wind, and I did not like the idea of driving to Brooks Road every day to work. But through prayer and conversation with my wife, we decided that would be a terrible reason not to take the job. That would not make any sense. It was a great. It was a job that doesn't exist in our industry.

It was, as the leasing person, I was told we want to invest $20 million into this project. We want to lease it from 65% occupancy to 85% occupancy in three years. We want to sell it. If you'll come on board, office at Bellbrook Industrial Park, which is probably two and a half miles from here, you know, we'll pay. you a salary plus commissions, plus a bonus for hitting certain benchmarks. Like, that's unheard of. But they wanted, I was, I was invited into the opportunity because I had the experience of management

and construction and leasing. And move into Bellbrook Industrial Park into a little storefront space on Brooks Road on January 17th of 2007. No heat. No air. Nice. We'd fire up a proponent. pane heater in the morning and knocked the chill off.

Got a bunch of used furniture from a local furniture consignment place. And we went to work. Second week we were there, one of our largest tenants filed for bankruptcy. Nice. It's like getting punched in the stomach. Went down. I said, you know, they come in.

So, well, can we just go see your space? I had not even had to see. Where are you going to put all this stuff when you buy? So we go in there and there's a group out of California, new to Memphis. They were there looking at their inventory to buy it. so the logical question I asked them was where are you going to put it? And they said, well, we don't know. We're in the market.

So, well, let me take you. We had actually, we, there were a couple of spaces that were in better condition than the one they were looking at. Let me take you two buildings over. They signed a lease, a long-term lease, matching the square footage that was going bankrupt, plus options to expand. And the only reason I mentioned that is because that day, two weeks into the product, maybe it was three weeks, I don't know,

but that day I realized this was going to be a different type of experience. We were going to be punched in the gut, and then we were going to be part of a solution. And that's really the theme that lasted throughout the assignment. Now, fast forward, we were doing construction. We had partnered with a local architectural group, LRK. They were helping us just with cosmetic improvements to the facilities. It was on 100 acres.

So, you know, it's 65% occupancy. Like, it felt like a ghost town. And they're just what, I mean, it was like, it was like we're all, it was the leftover space. It was, some of it was just dead storage. And we looked to activate that. It changed the way I thought about real estate is in a very real and active way. Like, yes, we needed to do transactions. We needed to find a way to do transactions in a very fast.

way, but it was also about bringing life back to a space. And so within a year and a half, we actually, we hit 80% occupancy. Life was returning to the park. We had conducted a PR campaign. There were stories in the press about the work that was being done. Keep in mind, we're 0708. We're going straight into the Great Recession. we did lose tenants through that time,

but we were also the solution for many regional distributors who wanted to cut their rent in half but wanted adequate space, good location, we were the place to go. We streamlined our leasing process, we were able to lease a space and as quick as you could imagine in our industry.

I mean, everybody knows that in our industry, if you can negotiate a deal and finalize it in six months, that's doing pretty good. If you do it in less than six months, you're probably doing something wrong. And we were at a very high velocity. And so things were going really well.

And over that time, I was becoming more connected with the tenants. I was becoming connected with stakeholders in the neighborhood. I was getting more involved in a school, local school called Bethel Grove Elementary. And also had two young daughters at home. And I think the work that we were doing in the community and in the school, I began to see the discrepancies between the life I was trying to build

and the life that was a reality for the majority of the city. And there were parts of that that were beautiful and that I yearned to be more part of. And then there were parts of that that absolutely broke my heart. The elementary school, we were involved with. We started a campaign called Integrity Now, and we would show up at the assemblies, and we would give awards for students who had been nominated for Integrity Awards. And because we were involved there, I was able to go to the fifth grade graduation, and it was over here right up the street at the old Holiday Inn.

I don't think it's still there. It's a little banquet hall. And I was able to sit on the platform, And it was that day, I just looked out across the room at a room full of fifth graders, particularly the girls who were dressed up for this reception. And they were there with grandparents, maybe a parent, and the pride that they exuded, you know. And it just, it hit me then that these students were experienced,

maybe the last season of innocence. Like what was going to happen to them this summer? What was going to happen to them next year? Where were they going to go? Like, what was their life going to look like in three years or four years? And it broke me. And I'll have to say, too, at the same time, my oldest daughter was, let's see, she was probably five at the time.

We were really struggling with something she was going through with a language-based learning disability. she was struggling with work in kindergarten. The independent schools were not, didn't have a space for, like they didn't have anything to offer her. We were working with a public school, but we're realizing even though the people we were working with had a deep care for her development

and our learning and her education, they just weren't resourced to provide what she needed. So like I'm in this situation where no amount of money can provide the solution that we need for our daughter. And then I'm in a community with students who don't have access. And so I guess it just developed this empathy that wouldn't have developed otherwise. And as you can imagine, with all that going on inside of me, my focus and priority on transactional real estate diminished quite a bit.

and it became about something altogether different. It became about creating jobs and economic development and investment in the neighborhood. And so this began this just wrestling journey that my wife and I both went on together. Our third daughter was born in 2008. And, you know, again, we were in the church. We were churchgoers.

As we talked about, you and I were on a Christian retreat in I think it was 05. Like we were very much steeped in the Christian. world, but we were not, I at least was not exactly living a Christian life. I mean, I was very involved in the community, but I was, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know that I was, if there was a happy hour, I was there. I mean, I was, and it was more than an hour. I mean, it was, I was, I was still very much, you know, young adult, living the good life. And, and, and then. I think you, when we did the pre-interview, you called that you were a frat boy with a

paycheck. I was a frat boy with a paycheck. Yeah. That's right. A good one, too. We'll be right back. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.

You forgot about it? I completely forgot about it. And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City super fan, Megan V. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show.

Carrie will literally go sit New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to, are you a Charlotte on the IHeart Reef. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Amy Roboc alongside TJ Holmes from the Amy and TJ podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact, what's fake, and sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay?

Follow the Amy and T.J podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about, and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Coogler did that I think was so unique.

He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You meet the president? You think it was the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China as a president, those law crusette.

God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. It was a good one. I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying.

It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was.

I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcasts, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman.

You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tour America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me?

They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. For free time. Let's get out. Freedom for Vietnam. Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict.

Sting here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the island. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As this season occurred, like, it wasn't like we were going through this process of becoming, like, better Christians or, you know, becoming deeper in our faith. It was not that.

It was like all of a sudden we just became pretty abruptly after our third daughter was born, like, God, like, reached out at us and said, this isn't the track that you're going to be on forever. and because of the community work, it was like, well, maybe that's what I'm supposed to be doing. I knew that the assignment I was on, the real estate assignment I was on, was going to end at some point, which would put me back in just exclusively transactional real estate, and that did not appeal to me any longer. So kind of an interesting, mysterious experience in the middle of the night, my wife would go down the hall to feed our daughter.

I couldn't go back to sleep. I was experiencing this just kind of listening prayer. It was a restless prayer. And just experienced God saying in our heart, in my heart, like, you know, this isn't, you're not going to do this forever, but like I'm not saying doing anything now. Like, just be aware. Didn't say anything to Crystal about it, my wife. About a month and a half go by.

And one Sunday, we're driving back from my parents. And Crystal says, hey, I've got to tell you something. And I haven't wanted to. She said, I don't know. really how to say this. And I knew exactly what she was going to say. She said, in the middle of the night, when I'm in our daughter's, in Ellie's room, I'm sensing God saying he's calling you to some form of ministry. And it was like, that was just, it was crazy that she was having that experience down the hall, the same experience I'm having in our room. And she didn't want to say anything because she assumed

that meant like we were going to be missionaries to like Southeast Asia or somewhere. And she's like, I don't really want to uproot our family to do that. But that began a journey. We had many people in our life who were also like coming to us saying that they were sensing the same thing. But we didn't know what that looked like. Can you tell that story? Because you were at like a Bible study. Yeah.

So we were part of this small group. And we did not share this with anyone immediately. And so I don't know. If Crystal was here, she could tell the story a lot better. But it wasn't too much longer after that. We were leaving this small group one night. and one of the wives comes running out into the yard. She goes, hey, y'all, you're going to think I'm absolutely crazy.

But God put it on my heart to just say, I think he's calling you into something different. And Crystal Lively kind of looked at each other casually, and we said, yeah, yeah, we know. I think she was shocked that we took it so, yeah, it's not crazy. We know. He's telling us, too, but she goes, why aren't you doing anything about it? Well, we don't know what to do. I mean, what are we supposed to do other than just keep showing up every day and doing the best job. we know how to do.

And so we had that. But at the time, like, when you went to talk to a pastor about it or a spiritual mentor, the only real option that was presented was, have you thought about seminary? And the answer to that was no. I've never thought about seminary. I mean, I did not even know what a master's of divinity was. And didn't even know that would be something you would spend a lot of money and time to pursue. Unless you were, I learned, I mean, unless you wanted to be ordained in a denomination, like, why would you do that?

But this started to become much clear through mentors, through reading, through prayer. And what became clear was that we were just to enroll in a seminary called Asbury Theological Seminary. And the reason that was the place was because our church had a grant that had been untouched for like 20. years that if anyone was a member of the church and going to get a master's of divinity at Asbury, that you could apply for it and that they would cover your tuition. So I find out about this. I apply for it. They're paying for my tuition. So I start taking classes at Asbury while I'm working at CBRE. And it was one of these things. I was show up at my office over here on Brooks Road. I would do like class work until the phone started ringing and the doorbell started going

off and then I'd put it aside and then at night I'd pick it back up and I guess it was probably that it was about a year of that it started meshing all of this together like this is all one and the same like I'm not this isn't compartmentalized stuff like there's not a holier than now space and then the the world like it's all the same and like I don't know I just became super creative during about a two or three-year process of just of writing how all of this is woven within creation and it's not set apart. And I use the word placemaking. A lot of people ask me what that means. It's just it's a perspective of real estate to say like the only thing that makes any of this worth anything are people willing to be there. And is it good? Is it functional? Is it safe? Is it is it, you know,

Is it adequate? And if it is, then it has value. If it isn't, then it's, you know, it's like what Wendell Berry says, there's only sacred places and desegrated places. And so all this was going on in my mind. And so I'm on the track. I think I had like, I don't know, 10 hours of seminary under my belt. I'm in commercial real estate.

I'm thinking I probably need to either go all in with the seminary or give up, you know, or figure out some other plan. And then Christ Methodist, our church offered us a job. I said, why don't you come over here and be director of outreach? It seemed to make sense. I was about to say that had to been a massive income difference. Cut the income quite a bit. I mean, really more than half.

I'll be, I mean, I didn't think twice about it. It was like this is what we're supposed to do. And I would rather do what we're supposed to do than try to preserve, you know, this livelihood. I just knew we would be covered. And so went over to work at the church in 2010. And so really was able just to fully immerse in the seminary work. But I knew within a couple of weeks that that was not where I was supposed to be. Because I felt like the way I described it, I felt like I had been.

in the ocean and been removed and put in an aquarium. And it's nothing against Christ and Methodist. I think it's with all churches. I realized we were much more outward focus and connected to the city in the private sector than we were in the church. There was a lot more inward, like focus and not enough outward focus. And I don't know, maybe that's what they hired me to do, director of outreach. But I was failing at it.

But I just realized that really early on. that I was not supposed to work in a church. But I'm still going for the seminary degree. We'll go back to my daughter, Megan. I'd been there. I'd been at the church for a year. We still had not found a solution for a school. I mean, I was really frustrated,

not just because of our plight, but because I knew there were many others in the city who had the same challenge. I mean, we were sort of forming a community of people who really didn't have a space for their kids. Because of it. And it was dyslexia? So, yeah, I mean, I think we never really got a formal diagnosis.

It was this whole hodgepodge of dyslexia, probably ADD, discalculia. I mean, it was a what? Discalculia, which is another form of language-based learning difference. We never got a formal diagnosis. But it was just, we knew it was all in there. Like she demonstrated that she could do it, but not. in a traditional setting. You know, even like transfer,

it's like taking something from a board to paper was not like it would get lost in that transfer. So in a traditional classroom, it just didn't work. I know a little bit about this. About dyslexia? So I went to four different high schools my freshman year. A long story, we can get into it later, but it doesn't matter.

But I ended up at Auburndale, which is not St. Benedict. And the reason I ended up at Auburndell is because mom got married again. We moved out there, and that was the closest school. And they were starting a football team, and they were giving cut tuitions, like almost on, to anybody who could help them on the football field. And I was an athlete, so that's where I went to school. I didn't know what I was going to, except it was just a school out there.

Well, back then, I don't know what St. Benedict is now, but back then they had two tracks. One was actually a very advanced track, and one was. was a track for kids with dyslexia. Well, the very advanced track, I didn't have dyslexia. So that's the track I was in. And it was full of some really, really, really smart people that weren't particularly athletic. The dyslexic track was full of all the athletic guys,

the creative athletic people, really, interesting, right? And so all of my best buddies growing up through high school, all of them were dyslexic. And so I live from 9 through 12 grade by the time I was a senior I understood. I could tell someone was verbally, there's a lot of kids who were verbally dyslexic, but great at math. There are people who were verbally fine, but miss math. There are people who, I mean, it was just. It's not like a one box kind of thing.

Crazy range. Yeah, that's right. The directional one was the one that particularly pissed me off because as a running back, when half the offensive line went to the left and you were running right because they didn't get the play call right, it could be painful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, what I really knew was that most of my friends

were actually extremely bright and horrifically frustrated because there was a disconnect between what their eyes saw and what their brain comprehended. That's right. And oftentimes what their mouth could communicate. and I think generations earlier, they would have been thought of as slow or whatever. But Auburndale had some very highly trained teachers

that specifically worked for kids as dyslexia, and those kids were graduating high school and getting 25s on the ACT and going to college. They cracked the code. They did crack the code. And I'm telling you, my friends would have been destined for maybe getting a high school diploma at the max. And so I understand the frustration is what I'm saying.

So Megan graduated from St. Benedict. Well, there you have it. And she's a junior at College of Charleston. There you have it. And she would not be if it was not. I mean, St. Benedict was huge for us. And what they did, they actually evolved the plus. It was called the Plus program.

They evolved that into a more specialized model. when Megan joined, where it was just, it was four to one student-to-one student-teacher ratio. I think, you know, if you needed that additional focus

to truly crack the code on whatever subject matter it was, they could provide that. And I wish she was here to tell you about her experience because I don't know where she would be if it wasn't for St. Benedict. I really, we love that school.

Maybe this can dovetail into a bigger conversation about House, we can help St. Plant Act because of places like, and my wife, a part of this journey, too, is my wife learned how she learned how to crack the code with Megan and therefore learned how to crack the code for other students. And she's, she changed careers. She was an audiologist. She went school to be an audiologist. She's now a teacher. She's a grammar teacher at St. Mary's, but she tutors students, particularly who are struggling to get from elementary math

through algebra one, she can crack the code because she's seen it. I think you have to know that there's a code to be, you know, I lived it for four years of my best friends. I got it. Yeah.

I really did. Because it's in there. And that was the most heart-wrenching thing. It's because, so yeah, I mean, thank you for sharing that because if Megan was here, like, it would honor her, but she would she would resound that, like, all, you know, and she's in a program at College of Charleston.

It's similar. And they're teaching them about how to live independently and how to manage a college course and, you know, that may have 40 to 50 students in there and how to develop relationships of your professors so that, you know, you're not just a number and things that will benefit her. I mean, and you probably notice with your friends, they all came at every situation from a different angle than was conventional. Therefore, they were usually good problem solvers.

on things outside of school. It's absolutely true and hilarious and creative. Yeah, right. And that concludes part one of our conversation with Greg Spilliards and you don't want to miss part two. It's now available to listen to.

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