An Army of Normal Folks - Why Your “Safe Life” Isn’t Actually Safe (Pt 2)

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

If every part of a community doesn't have the opportunity to flourish, the community can't flourish. Violence will penetrate your safety and all of us will suffer. Greg Spillyards felt convicted to shift from transactional real estate that made him more money to projects focused on transforming Memphis' forgotten places. And his story will show you how to make a deeper impact without leaving your career.Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks, and we continue now with part two of our conversation with Greg Spilliers, right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people. and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it? I completely forgot about it.

And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City superfan, Megan V. Stelion doesn't hold back on her. opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go set New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day.

Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to are you a Charlotte on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, folks, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials. And what the hell is that Blake lively thing about? But anyway. We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day.

Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Cougler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean the president?

You think Canada has a president. You think China has a president. Those law crusade. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus.

Yep. It's a good one. I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah. It is an actual poem. Better version of Play Stupid Games, Wednesday. Stupid prizes.

Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From IHeart Podcast, Saigon.

Please allow me to introduce Joseph. Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire.

They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. For free time. Let's get out. Freedom from Vietnam. Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict.

Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So... So where were we? Well, you are not feeling fulfilled at Christ Methodist, still chasing seminary. Yeah, and still...

Oh, and needing to find a school from... Megan. And he didn't find a school for you. So summer of 11, 2011, we are really at a point where we have to figure out where Megan is going to go for first grade. And no solutions were emerging. Her speech therapist said that what she needed was a school that provided that low ratio, four to one, suit and a teacher. And wove into the curriculum language development. And she's like, this is what she needs.

These schools exist, but they don't exist in Memphis. there was a school in Franklin called Curry Ingraham, and then there was a school in Durham, North Carolina, called the Hill Center. That's it. And those were two, I think there are probably more than that, but those were the two that we were told about and that we kind of looked into.

We went and toured Curry Ingraham. But these school, they're phenomenal. I mean, couldn't believe this existed. But are we going to move to Nashville or to Durham for making to go to school? a very expensive school, what are we going to do for a living? And that's when,

I mean, through God's guidance, we found this school in Lexington, Kentucky. Imagine it was a private school called the Lexington School. Imagine taking, like, St. George's and setting, like, I know this is not a local audience, but St. George's is a private co-ed school in the Memphis area,

and then imagine taking a Bodine, which is a school specifically for students with language-based learning differences and embedding that school into St. George's. Like, imagine that scenario. That is what the Lexan school had done. Found this school is 10 miles from Asbury Theological Seminary.

Are you kidding? So I send all of Megan's information to the school they take it without meeting Megan, they take all of her information from kindergarten, pre-K, all that, and they graft it into their evaluation form. We get a notification from the director of the school probably a week and a half, two weeks later,

saying, hey, I went through all of Megan's information. She meets like 12 out of 15 levels of the criteria of a student who would thrive in our program. Middle of the summer. Like, we're going to upread our life. I'm going to quit my job. We're going to sell our house. We're going to move to Kentucky to go to the school.

We haven't even seen it. Fourth of July morning, I get a note from, and this is a conversation we're having on the 3rd of July. Like, how are we going to make this decision? Fourth of July morning of 2011, I get a note. The next day. The next morning at 9.30. I get a note from the director of the program saying, hey, we're starting our camp

or summer camp next Monday. It's exact replica of the school. Why don't you come up and just put Megan in the program or into the, you know, shadow and then you can see what it looks like and you can see how she responds that's what we did we were in kentucky the next week it was everything we thought it would be it was like an answer to prayer and uh and then we had to wrestle with uh are we actually going to do this like are we really going to just up for i mean we were embedded in our community we live you know in your office and work i mean even though i had left to go to christ's methodist like i still i mean our we were

very much part of the fabric of our area of the city and and I was because of my experiences in southwest Memphis. I mean I was, I believed I was called to be to serve this city.

So the idea of leaving Memphis did not make a whole lot of sense. But in retrospect and I know and God led all this we, that's what we were supposed to do. And and so we come back, find out,

there's a family in our church who had hit some financial difficulties and needed to pull their kids out of private school. They needed to be in the White Station School District, like in two weeks. We signed a three-year lease with them to rent our house, and we pack up, and we hit the road to Kentucky. And you enroll full-time at Asbury Seminary. I enroll full-time at Asbury Seminary. How are you paying bills? So the church was covering the tuition. We're fortunate.

We have a couple of ground lease properties in Cairoville, and my parents were gracious enough to share the income from one of those properties for us to live on. It's still not a lot. It's like, I mean, it's like $24,000 a year after taxes. Starving. And then I had another stipend from the church that we were using to pay for, I mean, we were living on $36,000 a year.

Is it what it was? A family of five. Family five. Going to a private school. And a dog. Yeah, going to a private school. I had figured it up. I had figured it up.

I'm not buying dog, babe. You're out. You're in Kentucky. So we had saved enough, we had saved enough money and had enough in like retirement accounts. I figured it up. So I told Crystal, if we, to the school also, gave us a scholarship. And I told her, I said, if the scholarship is this dollar amount, we can go for three years and

come back with $1,500. They gave us that exact dollar amount. How much you go back to Memphis with? $1,500. It was a really dead nuts. And we moved up there in a 53-foot trailer with all of our crap, and we moved back in a U-Haul in $1,500. And, get this, the family who rented our house.

the husband got a job in Austin, Texas, and they had to move out two weeks before we moved back. This way it's supposed to be. You'd mentioned Wizard of Eyes. That's what it was like. It was like we had been uprooted. And this is the sense of humor of God, right? Is that we were all worried about the house.

We were worried about where we were going to live. He uprooted us, moved us up there, put us in this amazing. Our daughters, our three daughters, they were young, but it was transformational for them. the school was huge for Megan, but our middle daughter, Emma, who needed more.

I mean, she didn't need the support. She really needed to be, she had a different reading list because she was reading, we don't even know how she learned how to read, you know, and she just learned. Yeah, and so she was at the same school. But, and the school was actually,

they had offered for us to stay, and for all three girls to go there for the price of one. They knew our situation. They knew we were in seminary. Wow. And we were going to do it. We were going to stay there.

And it was one of these middle of the night moments when I looked at Chris Lago. We didn't come here to stay in Lexington. We got to go back to Memphis. So, yeah, it was an amazing experience. And so, yeah, so the seminary part, though, this is really, this is why we had to be uprooted. All right. Well, that's, that's, there's an interesting part about the old seminary part is you get there, and apparently you weren't the only idiot that left lucrative careers.

Right, that's right. We show up on campus, and there are seven or so other guys who had left careers that they were right in the middle of. Now, the recession had a lot to do with this, but they had uprooted. It's like, you know, we're going to change the whole trajectory of our life. From what parts of the world? All over? Well, at Asbury, they were literally all over the world. Yeah.

But of that seven or so, most of us were from, let's see, we had a couple of guys from Atlanta area, had a guy from Minnesota, had a guy from Michigan. What a seminary is like? It's because it's not college. No. So I think it's different depending on your approach and your season of life. I can say what it was like for me. me. It is like what it says it is. It's a seed bed. It's a place, a seed bed. I mean,

seminary is, it means seed bed, basically. And it's a place. I could, I looked at it as a place for rest. I'd already established a work ethic. I'd already establish a rhythm of work. It was not a heavy lift for me to go through the coursework. I worked eight to five, you know, just like if I had a job. And I took the weekends off. I mean, I enjoyed life there. I rested, I gained perspective. I developed deep relationships with people who were there with one focus, which was to develop their theological framework.

Were most of those guys actually looking to go, like be pastors? Yes. And they all are. Yeah, I was the only. But you weren't. I was the only one. You knew that you weren't. I was on track. I thought you said that you kind of felt like that wasn't the film.

But I didn't know if that was me or I was still, like, open to it. Really? And so I was on track. I was on ordination. So you were, okay, well, maybe I'm going to be ordained. Yeah. I mean, you're going to seminary and getting a master's divinity. If I had told somebody early on, if I had told someone, you know, I don't think I'm going to get ordained.

They said, why are you doing this? Well, that's actually what I'm sitting here wondering. That's exactly what I'm sitting here wondering is, you've got. at this lucrative career. Yeah. You get fast-tracked, really, into the learning of all of it. I had to be uprooted. I had to be removed from my context.

I mentioned earlier, I mean, the happy hours, the friends, the frat guy with the paycheck. I mean, like, while that was tapering off as a father of three, I needed to be in a totally different setting. Well, you go to Asbury in Kentucky. and uproot from your family, and you kind of abandon a former life. That's right. But almost without a clear goal. That's right.

That's crazy to me. We only knew what we were supposed to do in the moment. You just trusted that? I think God knew it would be a distraction. But you really trusted that. We really trusted that. Yeah. We really did.

And I think that by the time we, so we, so we, get there in fall of 2011. By the time we get to spring of 2012, that was getting to be a little uncomfortable because that not just trusting. Oh, not knowing. Yeah, not knowing. Yeah, I mean, the unknown. Because we kind of had a plan. You're also a father. Yeah. So if we've got to take care your kids, you've got to provide. If we questioned, if, if we questioned the seminary part, we could lean on the part that Megan was getting what she needed at the school. So we were like, okay, we're here for that.

But when we were very honest, we knew that the formation that was happening within the community of Wilmore, Kentucky and with the seminary community, was doing something more than what we would be experiencing if we had stayed in place. Because all of us had to uproot. I mean, it wasn't easy for any of us.

And so, yeah, I mean, so when it became really uncomfortable, though, you keep in mind, like at this point, you know, I'm like 33, 34. I'm really hanging around more of the like PhD students and and even professors. Like that's more of my peer group. And I'm starting to discover models of ministry that are different than just being ordained and going and working in a church.

And I'm not taking anything away from that. Like I believe in the call of vocational ministry. I believe God calls people to vocational ministry. But that was not particularly what he was calling me to. And so I almost forgive me. Yeah. But you spent two weeks at Christ Methodist before you realized I don't want to be in this church. Well, I love the church.

I mean, I love the community. I don't mean the church in this position in this church is a better way to say. I don't guess I'm at all surprised that you're in seminary and thinking maybe there's other ways. Yeah, that's right. And seeing other ways. You know, like they were coming to me. I mean, I was discovering, I mean, I discovered a development model, not through the seminary.

I discovered it in New York Times one night. This is a development model in Costco Viejo, Panama where a guy was, you know, corporate attorney who was burned out in his 30s, went on a surfing vacation, ended up staying in Costco Viejo and started developing properties with a local and reserving 10% of the property for community edifying purposes, like after-school programs or arts. Like I was seeing things like that. I was going, gosh, I mean, you could do that in Memphis. I mean, and then the, like, and he had grown this.

By the time I found out about it in 2012, he started in 2007. This was an incredibly violent gang-ridden area outside of Panama City, Panama. There had not been a homicide in five years by the time I was reading about this model. I was like, he was investing in the community. but with the community. I was like, this is what we need. This is what we need to do in Memphis. So the, it's obvious that at this point, there's this confluence of the former and the latter.

And it's starting to form in your mind in Kentucky. Yeah. But still didn't know exactly what it was going to look like. So I'm still doing the ordination track. you know, I'd finish my biblical studies courses and I was finding myself more in like Christian leadership, anthropology, you know, courses that weren't, I mean, I had finished the line, I'd taken Hebrew and Greek, I'd finished my exegetical coursework.

So it was really becoming more about creating a vision for implementation of what I believe about who we are as created beings and how we are to live out our lives in creation. Like that whole thing was beginning to form in my mind. And it was different than career. It didn't, it's not what are you going to do when you grow up? It's not a career. It's an actual way of being and being available. And I didn't, I mean, the saying that I kept using, I'm just going to keep doing the next right thing.

I mean, the next right thing today may just be to go to, class or to take the kids at the park. I mean, you know, it was just like keep doing the next right thing and it would always lead to another opportunity that God would reveal. And, you know, it sounds great. I've had people ask me, what do you think seminary did for you? And I say it was formation. It was being steeped in that seed bed and being part of something altogether.

It was seeing God work through all of that. Like that step, like when Crystal and I started praying together about where he was leading us, he led us. Everybody needs to remember when I introduced Mr. Spilliards. I said it's the CEO of Cushman and Wakefield Commercial Advisors. So if you're listening to this. That happens. Yeah. You might be corn-fused a little.

Yeah. And like you said, the folks that you lease the house too, he got a job in Austin. Now you're back in Memphis because it's time. Two weeks later, they're gone and you're back in your home. You've just spent all this time in seminary, learning Greek and Hebrew and all the rest of it. But what you're really learning is who you are and what you want to do. and what you want to be and how you want to live. And I was looking for permission to do it in a way from people I respected.

So I got a question. Yeah. It's completely off the subject. And I wasn't going to ask it, but I can't help it. Do you study the predetermination, predestination thing in seminary? People do. I don't get bogged down in the – Oh, I don't get bogged down in it at all.

I really don't. Because I know I'm right. But – Exactly. Exactly. But I'm curious, is that a class? No. That's just discussed?

It would be discussed in circles. And the theologians who are part of these seminary communities have very set thoughts about it. That they can back up with all the scripture you want to hear. Yeah, both sides. On both sides. But what seminary really was about was how to engage with scripture and then allow the scripture to speak into your formation. So what about,

what about denominational theology and the differences of each? Is there not a comparative an analysis construct to some type of education there? Yeah, that's an element. I would go to that part of center. I would go to that because I think

that is fascinating stuff. But you know, everyone there. Because it's so human. It's fascinating, but everyone at Asbury. So Asbury graduates more, Methodist pastors than all the Methodist seminaries combined. Really? Even though it's a non-denominational seminary.

So everyone there... Well, then you would have all kinds of different. Well, no, because everyone there was along this Armenian, Wesleyan theological track. So everyone pretty much, I mean, when I tell people who I went to seminary with, you know, that I work in all of us full of Presbyterians, it's like, gosh, the diversity. I mean, like... The diversity. You know, so it's like, so to Wilmore, all of us were pretty much along the same line.

Now, yes, we would have conferences and commentaries. Well, I just think it would be, I think it's a fascinating thing. It is. You know, why is because it's what we humans tend to do with information. Yeah. And I just find that whole, those, I think, I don't think anybody knows if they're right. You're not on a lot of that stuff because it is very human and therefore it is very failed. But I just find the discussions around it fascinating.

I think we have a lot of other stuff to figure out. Me too. Especially since I know I'm right. We'll be right back. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments

this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it? I completely forgot about it. And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains.

But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, sex in the city super fan. And Megan B. Stelion doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go set New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Amy Rovock alongside T.J. Holmes from the Amy and T.J. podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place.

What's fact, what's fake, and sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J. Podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Coogler did that I think was so unique.

He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You mean, like, the president? You think Canada has a president. You think China has a president. Those law crusade. God, I love that thing.

I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. It was a good one. It is an actual Polish saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win Stupid prizes. Yes.

Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow ever. Any town, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcasts, Saigon.

Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. They're pouring petrol all over him.

He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. Four, three, die. Let's get out. Freedom, Mom, hit nine. Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this.

There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, spring of 14, I'm two months away from graduating with an M-Dove that I'm not real sure what I'm going to do with. I didn't even know for sure if we're going to be able to move back in our house. And a guy named Bob Lupton, I don't know if you ever heard of Bob Lupton. He wrote a book called Toxic Charity. Do we know the book? Yes.

We did that whole episode on Toxic Charity. Oh, you did? Yeah. Okay. And I need to, I have never shared the story that Bob Lupton. I mean, he was part of it. But he comes up to Wilmore. And I am part of this newly formed cohort called Oikonamia.

And it was all about faith and work. and economics and how they all are intertwined. They are. It was four of us in it. And because we were part of this cohort, we were able to spend the afternoon with Bob Lupton. Envy you. So Bob Lupton sitting at a table in this conference room at the seminary.

Oh, gosh. How much fun would that have been? Well, it was an inflection point for me. I bet. Because I look at him and I said, I'm about to graduate with an MDV, and I don't think I'm called to Ordain Ministry. Well, what do you think you're called to?

What did you do before you came here? I did commercial real estate. I did commercial real estate in a very challenged area of Memphis, Tennessee. I want to go back and I want to do the same thing we did in southwest Memphis, but I want to do it across the entire city. Working in neighborhoods, working where the neighborhoods are client, finding ways to connect resources to neighborhoods, convert latent real estate with activated, you know, uses that is needed within the neighborhood. something like that is how I said it. And he looks at me like you're looking at he goes,

you're going to go back and do that. He said, you're going to go back to Memphis. You're going to find a sponsor. And you're going to do that work. I'm so glad you said that because that's a great segue to sponsor. What does that even mean? That's so vague. It was so interesting that he said sponsor because it was almost like a prophecy.

It's like you're going to find a sponsor. What is it? Well, it means probably because I'm not going to make a whole lot of, I mean, I'll be doing well to break even doing this work. Yeah, a sponsor. So I immediately started thinking about my relationships in Memphis and who I reach out to. I reach out to CBRE first because, you know, they all knew my story. They knew where I was and I had stayed in contact.

They loved the idea, but they were about to be acquired by the corporate parent, and they knew it wouldn't survive that. And so they were very, we had great conversations with a handful of leaders over there, but they were just very honest. They were like, you know, I just,

we want to see this happen, but we don't know if we're, if it'll work. So that, that is steeped in the adage that you can't expect organizations to be loyal. Right. The people in them can be,

but the organization is correct. So it's a strikeout. Yeah. So, you know, graduate. move back to Memphis, hang all the pictures in the old nail holes, put all the furniture. You got $1,500 and no job.

I got $1,500. Job looking for a sponsor. Like an alcoholic or something. So the next Friday, I show up at Commercial Advisors. A friend of mine who I had worked with at CBRE had gone over there. He said, I think you need to come talk to Larry Jensen. He was the chairman and founder of commercial advisors, Cushman-Wingfield Commercial Advisors.

For everybody, that's another. Yeah, third-party commercial real estate. firm. He and a guy named Wyatt Aiken had founded this firm and it's locally owned, but it's part of the Cushman-O-Wakefield. It's a global brand, but we're locally owned and we're affiliated with Cushman-Oweakfield. Wyatt had been a huge example to me as far as what it looked like to live out your faith and work. I'd actually reference Wyatt in a couple of papers in seminary. So it made, it made sense to go and talk with them. I did not know Larry. I knew who he was, but I didn't know him personally.

So I go sit in his office the Friday after we moved back, and I said to him what I just said to you that I wanted to do. Did you say, I want somebody to sponsor me to do real estate developments that benefit challenging neighborhoods? Because I don't think that's a good pitch. I did not say that. I'm not saying my pitch was great, but it was not that. I said, Larry, I think that we have the capabilities within

our firms, our third-party commercial real estate firms, to serve our neighborhoods, to serve our communities. If we- Profits are a necessary measure of any organization's success, but only profits are not necessary for the success of these organizations. That's right. That's right. That's my own words, by the way. And it's good.

But I do feel that way. And I told him, I said, look, we do well serving our clients in the core areas of the city, but we have areas of the city that are forgotten. And we're not going to be a flourishing city until we're investing and we're experiencing the fullness of all the neighborhoods in the city. And anyway, I stumbled through this kind of pitch to him and he looks at me after about 30, 45 seconds of silence,

which felt like 10 minutes, because I think he's just going to be like, that's crazy, that's ridiculous. He looks at me and he says, I wanted to do something like this for 10 years. I haven't met a broker who would step away from the transactional flow and do this work. I said, well, here I am. He said, well, this is the sponsor. What do you need to live on?

What do you need to live on? That was the question. And I'm thinking, well, I'm living. I didn't tell him what I'd been living on. A lot more than this Kentucky gig, trust me. But I was honest. I said, look, I'm either going to do this or I'm going to be a first year pastor in the United Methodist Church. Those are my choices.

Did he say, well, what's that pay? Yeah, right. So, no, what he said, he goes, and this goes back to your theological thing. So, you know, so Larry's Presbyterian. I'm Methodist. I think he thinks that's great, you know, that he's going to get to have all these wonderful theological conversations with the Wesleyan. And he says, write a white paper. Go write a paper.

Go just summarize what you want to do. So. I thought maybe he might have said something like. Quote Calvin. Yeah. Give me four Calvin quotes and tap your heels. Yeah. No, he goes, go write a paper.

And so that's why I left there. I left that office. I mean, I felt like if he would advocate for it with the ownership, wrote the paper. What's the paper? Give me your vision of what this looks like. It was called real estate development, an asset-based approach to real estate development

and underserved areas of the city. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. And so there had been something... See a second, Proska. Yeah, yeah. And there had been something developed with a Shalom project. I don't know if you're familiar with that,

but it had been completed around probably a year before I went to seminary, and I was familiar with it. And it had given me enough of a framework just to know that that was the model, but it never really was implemented. And I felt like this was the real estate, this was the real estate opportunity. to engage the Shalom project. And like the core ingredients to help the-

Explain the Shlom project. Well, it's, gosh, I'm probably not the best person to explain it. But it's just, it was a- 30,000-foot view. Yeah, it basically like, I mean, the way I, what I took from it was it, it outlined what the ingredients are of flourishing community. Right.

That's right. A comprehensive flourishing community. And then did the research to know that we have communities that are missing certain ingredients. And I consider those ingredients ways in which we could redevelop latent property. And so that was kind of the way it intersected. And that was a lot of the white paper. You know, I outlined some of those ingredients in the white paper.

And so I do that. And I send it to Larry. This is in June. And there's, you know, I think we had like one conversation. Well, Larry's daughter was getting married this summer. He was preoccupied. I went back to the church. and I was working in congregational care

doing hospital visits and funerals. Oh, I bet that was fun. And it was the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life, but rewarding. And I went to a deeper level as far as just the understanding of serving one another

at our time of highest need. And I did that for six months. Larry reaches out out of the blue in August with this question. Are you still a Christian? Do you want to do this? Are you still a Christian? What, do you think going to the Methodist church and make you a sadist?

That was his theological question. He wanted to know. I said, once a butterfly, always a butterfly, right? And it's a whole theological argument, you know, can you lose your salvation? I said, yes, let's talk. I was in his office the next week. That led to several other conversations. I mentioned Wyatt Aiken.

I was really excited about working with him as well. I started at commercial advisors. So Larry took the paper to the ownership, basically, and, like, advocated. Said this is what we need to be doing. Yeah, and everyone supported it. Fortunately, I knew a number of people on the ownership because I'd been in the business for 10 years. And the day I started at commercial advisors, Wyatt was diagnosed with terminal cancer. and he would live for another two years.

And over that two years, I was able to visit with him and learn from him. But Larry poured into me as well and helped connect me with various groups that would benefit from our service. I will say it did not necessarily go how I thought. it would in that we didn't just plug into a community and start working in one community. It really became more. We were representing nonprofit organizations, faith-based organizations on their real estate, which is fine. I mean, and I became obsessed with at least breaking even.

I did not want to be, I didn't want to be a charity case. Like I just believe that anything we did well, we could make money at. And so we did. I mean, we didn't do much more than break-even. But I had clients, right out of the gate, it was called Porter Leith. That was Sean Lee. He had just received funding to build their first early childhood learning academy, state-of-the-art early learning academy in Longview Heights, South Memphis.

He wanted some help with site selection. And he had a property that had been donated. We went to walk it. And we got in the car and we go around the corner. And there's this vacant field in the middle of the neighborhood. that's owned by Memphis Shelby County Schools. And we look at it and like, that's where it needs to be, right in the middle of this neighborhood.

And over the course of a year, worked with Memphis Shelby County Schools to subdivide the property, which they never do, and acquire it for them to build a $12 million early childhood academy right there in the middle of Longview Heights. Do I think that would have been accomplished without me? Probably. but I think that we played a small role in making sure it went where I was supposed to go for the community.

You saw an area and eating and filled it. Yeah. And again, to the breaking even part, I mean, it was a year long. I think we made $4,000. So this isn't going to like, I mean, you know, but this isn't going to put food on the table. But the company was supporting us. They were paying us a salary. On that example, I like how you talk about the highest, best economic use versus your other framework. in the intersection. If you walked through that. Yeah.

So I knew, I knew as we were thinking through this, even in seminary, that we focused on highest and best economic use of property. But I thought that there's also a highest and best community use. And there's an intersection point that where you find thriving, where you find flourishing. So while the highest and best economic use may be industrial outdoor storage, it might not be the highest and best community use. So you should consider that in the way you develop property and steward property. And I think a developer or a property owner who is thinking about their city and thinking about the best for all needs to take those things into account.

And if they're not the ones to do it, then they need to consider selling that property, someone who can find the highest and best community use. That's just is that simple. So, and I actually, I, you know, I mentioned the Panama City model. I actually went there, visited with the developer. He believed I should be taking more of a development route and not the third party route, which may be true at some point. But at the time, I just felt like this was what was connecting us

with the most people, the most organizations doing the highest impact work. Well, how did you become president of their company? Yeah. So because you went from this guy giving stuff away making no money to the president of the company. That's kind of weird. Well, maybe before that Memphis Rocks, Claybourne Temple. I'm going to get there.

Yeah. So the way is, so, you know, how I became president of the company. So in 20, so I've been doing this work for three years, summer of 2017, we have like a significant disruption in what they had set as a succession plan. and among the partnership of the company. Let's leave it at that. And Larry came to me one afternoon out of the blue and said, would you consider leading our asset services

side of the business? And I think his wife actually was the one who said to him, I believe Greg's the person to lead this side of the business. I mean, this guy's asked you two pretty interesting questions. Are you a Christian? I mean, do you like to be the leader? And how much do you need a little?

And how much do you need? Three questions. Yeah. But his wife had been praying for the right leader for it and had produced my name to him. And I was really hesitant to do that. And the reason, I think the reason it made sense for me to do it was because I had experience in all the parts of our asset services side of the business. I knew property management. I knew brokerage.

You know, I understood the real estate side of things. And so after like a couple of weeks, I said, yeah, I'll do it. So that's what transitioned me to leadership. Fortunately, we had hired some brokers and some other service professionals who really cared about the initiative. And so they also were taking it on. They were taking on more of like the execution type stuff and the day to day. Because I couldn't, I wouldn't have been able to manage it all. And so part of that, like,

like we had taken on, we had developed a relationship with Tom Shadyack, Memphis Rocks, and... Yeah, that's what I wanted to go is. So the three years, I think, Mm-hmm. Tell us some stories.

Yeah, so right out of the gate. And Tom Shadiak, everybody is, let's see, Rick Shadiac, who's the director, Tom or Rick? So Tom's the director. Okay. So Rick Shadiac had the president of Alsack, St. Jude's,

or President of St. Jude, Al-Sac. President of Al-Sac, which is St. Jude. Which is the second largest medical fundraising organization in the world. In the world. And believe it or not, that guy who is the president of this massive organization and done a lot for children all over the world in Memphis, his brother happens to be Tom Shadyak, who is the director who directed Jim Carrey and stuff like Liar Liar and all of that.

professor. Two dutty professors. Evan Almighty, Bruce Almighty. Evan Almighty, all that. So, oddly, these two brothers have been really instrumental in Memphis. Yes. So Tom was teaching a class at the University of Memphis. Which I have spoken to out.

Oh, did you really? Yeah. Tom invited me to speak at that class. Storytelling in life. That's it. So you spoke, so the night I went, he screened a movie and then for an hour and a half, and then they had an hour and a half of... So he screamed undefeated for an hour and a half,

and then I spoke the hour after that about storytelling. There's an amazing class. Really interesting class. Yeah. So I have a really good friend, Michael Drake, who invited me. Because he knew what I was doing. Michael Drake invited me. Isn't that weird?

That's amazing. You can't make this stuff up. No, you can. And he would appreciate me saying that phrase. You really can't make this stuff up. So I met Tom that night, and I knew he had a vision for a campus. And we started looking at some sites. It started negotiating on one.

Worked for probably six months on trying to secure the site near Bill Street. And it really hit ahead. Finally, I said, Tom, this isn't going to work. We got to cut bait. He was, all right, meet me at this coffee shop. Then let's talk. Let's regroup. I walk in the coffee shop the next night.

He goes, hey, I'm headed back to Boulder, but there's a property that's going to auction in three days, and I want to buy it. I want you to go buy it for me. He goes, well, no, he goes, I'm going to go over there and look at it, and if I like it, I want you to go buy it on Thursday. This is like Tuesday night. So, Tom, that's not the way this works.

And the property was called Newtown Center. It had been a public, private, like, developed partnership with LaMoyne Owen Community Development Corporation. It was an auction in lieu of foreclosure that was going to be on Thursday. I call everyone I knew who had any influence whatsoever to try talking out of it for two days. I did more. That was what I did. Like, please talk about it. And Thursday comes, the auction's going to be at noon.

You know, it's 11 o'clock. I'm going to get in my car. I'm going to start driving over there. but I'm hoping he's going to call me in and called me off. He calls me up and he goes, Greg, sometimes the right thing to do is the wrong thing. Or he said maybe the wrong thing to do is the right thing. I don't know. It was something like that.

It was something basically him saying, I don't care what all these people are saying. I want to go do it. What do you think it's going to sell for? Well, the auctioneer told me a number. I didn't know. I mean, well, I go into the auction with his attorney and a guy in our office who had experience of auctions because I didn't. and we end up winning the auction and we buy the property. We'll be right back.

I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments This show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it? In the very long time they took to pick us out.

And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City super fan, Megan B. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show. Carrie will literally go set New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Amy Roboc alongside T.J. Holmes from the Amy and T.J. podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact? What's fake? And sometimes what the F. So let's cut the cr. crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J. podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything.

Here, the Nick Dick and Poll Show, we're not afraid to make mistakes. What Cougler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You meet the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president?

The law crusade. God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at night. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one.

I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying. Yeah. It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way,

wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From IHeart Podcast, Saigon.

Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire.

Do you rate me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. For free time. Let's get out. Freedom from Vietnam. Run!

Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Bennett. Sting here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two days later, we were in the neighborhood. It was in Soulsville, which for the listeners... South Memphis.

Yeah, we're stacked recording studios right across the street. Some of the iconic music of America has come from this neighborhood. they're having a panel discussion with the Urban Land Institute. And it's these attorneys and bankers and architects all in this room. And they want to talk to Tom about what he plans to do with Newtown Center. So I take Tom upstairs where they're all gathered. Everybody needs to know that Tom is skinny, wears round glasses, and has hair down to the middle of his back, and it looks like it's permed.

And jeans and a t-shirt. With holes. Yeah, with all. Often. So we go up to the top. But one of these sweetest guys you never want to meet. Genuine. And so they asked Tom, what is your plan for Newtown Center?

What is your plan for the community? And having never met any of these people, not knowing the context, he goes, well, my plan is that if we do what we say we're going to do, when you're walking down the street down McElmore and you meet someone on the sidewalk, you treat them as if they're the Messiah themselves. That was his plan. And they're like, all right, well, what do you say to that? Okay. Yeah. And, you know, and that, now, what was interesting about that project, though, and about working with Tom is it was the first time I was able to really embed within a community.

And I started going to the community meetings. I started getting to know the stakeholders in the community, just like I did back when we were in Whitehaven. And I really enjoyed that. But I had to start presenting myself as someone who was engaging on my own and not as a reverend. representative of Tom because it was so mixed as far as people who were for what Tom wanted to do and his vision of people who didn't believe in it or whatever. And I can remember saying to Tom, like, people don't want a climbing gym here. Like people want a grocery store. They want something that they can.

Yeah, for everybody, Memphis Rocks is a climbing gym. Yes. Memphis Rocks, but Memphis Rocks. Yeah, Memphis Rocks. Yeah, Miths Rock. Yeah. And? And he said, if Henry Ford had asked the people what they wanted, they would have set a faster horse.

And he goes, unless you have a better idea, we're moving forward with this. And so that started this whole journey of, we managed the property, but we also managed the construction of the climbing gem, which involved taking the roof off half the building because the clear height wasn't high enough. So he'd take the roof off half the building, push it up another, I think, 15 feet so he could get his high climbs in there. I really did not understand the vision until the group called Waltopia. They're out of Bulgaria. They were the installers of the equipment. He told me the guy who was part of the lead team here, he goes, you got to think about this, like a physical video game. People are addicted to it.

They're going to come back because they want to get past their point of last failure. And he goes, and it's also something you do together with someone else. And that's what Tom's whole thing was, is that he wanted an East Memphis, a fluent, you know, upper class, you know, economic class person, climbing and taking instruction from a kid who may live one street over and then forming a relationship that way. And everything, all the walls that society puts up break down as well you depend on one another. All the wall breaks down as you're climbing one. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. Yeah, we don't want that wall to climb break down.

But anyway, so, but I think it was an $8 million project. All in all is over 10. Anyway, it was an amazing experience. And how's it going? They struggle, but it's going. They have a partnership with Soulsville Charter School, which is right across the street, which is the number one charter school. in state, and they have a pay-it-forward model where, you know, the paying members subsidize the

students coming over. And I think it's a, I think it's one month of time. It's a cool facility. It is being sustained by love. I mean, I honestly can't. It is worth it. It can be closing. I don't know. I mean, it's just, it's amazing. I was just over there last week and it, you know, I, it's just, it's open. I mean, the community, the people they're climbing. It's like a group of, it's an assembly of people like you'll, you will not find anywhere else.

So I took my daughter like three months ago for the first time, and we had an awesome time. Yeah. It was a kid from the neighborhood working and guiding us around, you know, donated $100. So it's great for people to, you know, that you can go do that. I think technically you can go for free. you know, but, you know, voluntary donation, whatever amount. But, I mean, if you could talk more about it in terms of, I think a kid was killed, one of their workers was killed in the neighborhood in the last year. But also they were like featured in a Hulu documentary recently. Yeah. And any personal stories that come to mind. I mean, it's super interesting.

And the guy, one of the guys in the Hulu documentary was the one who was killed. Oh, really? In the front, in the entryway of the building. And I think that's something. Like, this is real. I mean, this is, we're not, this isn't Disney World. We are, we are going into neighborhoods where there is a significantly high level of trauma. That's the result of observing violence, being part of violence.

A building is not, a real estate development project is not going to cure all that. But relationships and being together and understanding one another, that gives us some hope. That gives us a shot. And to, yeah, I mean, you know, and another project, Claiborne Temple, that was one of the first projects we worked on. The heart's breaking over this. Transitioning Claiborne Temple. Can you explain where it is for Pilots? Yeah.

So Claibor and Temple was really ground zero for Martin Luther. King as he was in town beginning to form the sanitation workers' strike and beginning to form the plans for that. And if you've seen pictures from the sanitation worker strike in Memphis, you'll be familiar with the signs that everyone carried that said, I am a man. Those signs were actually printed at Claiborne Temple. In the basement. And then the picture that everyone knows was taken right on Pontotoc, right to the south of

the building. So it's this church in an iconic place that is very sacred, and it had been owned by the African Methodist Episcopal Church for, you know, decades. But they had moved on from the property, and it had become abandoned and disrepair and blighted and just really in bad shape. And so a couple of local business guys wanted to acquire it, from the AME church and redevelop it for community. Were you working with Frank Smith?

I didn't even put this together until now. Yeah, yeah. So Frank was one of the, he was like the second person I called after Sean Lee at Porta Lee. And Frank, Frank told me that he wanted, he had this vision for Claiborne. And then he partners with a guy in Earl Blankenship who had been the CEO at CBRE that where I started. So Earl calls me one day and he goes, he called me Spilly. because to him, I will always be one year out of college, Turrell. So he calls me over, he goes, Spilly, I'm sitting here with Frank Smith.

We're going to go buy a church. But we have to negotiate with a bishop. And since you've been to seminary and all, you know how to talk to a bishop. We need a the theologian to have this conversation. So that's really what it became. I was like the, I call it, I shepherded the deal. So the deal was really struck by a guy named Larry Lloyd. who met with the trustee of the AME Church,

they struck the deal. But it had been attempted like three or four times before and had failed in the 11th hour. So everybody was super skittish about how the process was going to go. And they knew the absolute most important thing for this was not the economics of it. It was that trust was established between the parties. And that was what I considered to be my role,

was to keep the trust, keep building trust, to make sure everyone knew that each party had the best of intentions in mind. And for everybody, listen, this thing is literally half a block away from the FedEx Forum. Yeah. It's near Bill Street. It is literally in the heart of the city. And you got the deal done. And unfortunately, I think there was a fire.

Yeah. So the tragedy in all this, you know, is that, and talking about how it's real is, you know, the church and the development effort went through a series of changes. But then last summer, there was a fire that tragically, you know, significantly, I mean, it destroyed the church. I mean, there's just an outer shell remaining. I mean, I, and then it was right in the same, I think within maybe three weeks of that, the double homicide at Memphis Rocks. You know, and you're like— You feel like that's—does it ever enter your mind that that's Satan trying to set you down?

Yeah, because I sat in the point. parking lot outside of Claiborne and I just I started crying because I'm like you know here we had these beautiful representations of what people do for one another how we serve one another and one we've had an act of violence and the other is burned and like we're and and I think it's just you start to realize that how significantly broken the world is and how it's insane. significantly in need of restoration and revival and hope. I mean, yeah, I mean, I learned just recently the opposite of hope is apathy. And I did.

I mean, I think late summer into the list past fall, I started to feel this sort of like apathy. And fortunately, I have people around me that will grab me out of that. But yeah, it's not easy. I mean, it's Memphis is not easy. Neither is Detroit. Neither is Birmingham. Neither is any of the world. Neither is Helena, Arkansas.

Neither is, yeah. And I mean, this is why I so appreciate what you're doing because we have, if we will get engaged where we are, the gaps are visible. Like, don't be apathetic to the gaps. Like, there is hope when you get engaged. If you're not engaged, then there's no hope. But if you continue to show up and you continue to do the next right thing and you continue

to serve someone other than yourself, there is hope. If you're not engaged, how do you think somebody that is engaged processes your opinion? If you're not engaged, how do they process your opinion? I'm just saying, I would like people to think about if you're not engaged, how do you think I, as someone who is engaged, processes your opinion. That's a nice way of saying is, shut your mouth if you don't want to do the work. Right. Because I really don't care what you got to say. Yeah, and I think we're at an inflection point for Memphis and for Detroit and for New Orleans and Atlanta and anywhere else you think of.

We're in an inflection point where either you get engaged or just go. I mean, just go live. you're not going to be able to live in Memphis and pretend like you're in a in a in a in a bubble. Like it doesn't. It's not vice film. And the fact that we've done that for so long is the reason, if the, if you think you're removed from the violence or you're removed from the injustice of a less than excellent education experience, if you think you're removed from that, just wait. You won't be able to get people to show up to serve you at your restaurant. you won't be able to have employee people at a grocery store.

What's going to happen to the municipalities tax base that you make your living in when you live outside of it? Yeah. Look at the front page of the paper today. I mean, what was it? It was the reality of population growth or the lack thereof impacting the tax base. That's interesting. It's on the front of the Daily Miffian today.

We'll have a shop talk coming up soon about that very conversation. So that Alex and I've recorded it this morning. There's a shop talk about that very thing. We've been talking about it for a long time, and we've known it was a reality, but now it's here. But that doesn't change. Like, we, if you just wake up every day and do the next right thing and look around you, there is a richer, deeper life than just making the most money you can and trying to find the safest. There's also a richer, deeper life.

other than just sitting there and listening to Fox News or CNN and deciding you have it all figured out and being a sheep. When you and Alex were discussing a potential interview, you wrote. I guess the- Should we maybe close the loop on Megan? We're going to. I'm putting it out of order. All right.

All right. Just sit over there behind your curtain and shut up. Megan doesn't want anybody to close a loop on her. She ain't going to get loop closed. We're going to. You wrote, I guess the, overarching theme of our story is that we either experienced or observed gaps in the community that need to be filled and we'd venture out to fill them with the help of many others who championed

the effort. That's in summary what we've just been saying. That is also in summary what the army of normal folks is. Just seeing areas of need and filling them, seeing gaps and filling them. and I don't think there's a I'm not sure what the term for it would be I don't think there's a bomb that blows up the whole problem I don't think there's a one fix right but the beauty of an army of people engaging in the meaning and Phil Gaps is

is that it's almost like death of a thousand cuts in reverse, is that if you're filling one gap that you're passionate about and this guy's feeling a gap that he's passionate about, and this lady's feeling a gap that she's passionate about, it's not one bomb that blows it up, it's just a whole bunch of many interventions and all of the needs that really can, you know, get that rudder to turn the ship.

What's next? I'm just going to say it the easy way in your mind. for how you can help energize a city using all the Tulsa Shav? Well, I think things have to get to the point where everyone is, we have to get to a point where it's an all hands-on-deck moment, and which brings unity and brings vision. We're not, we're not, unfortunately, we're not, we're not there yet. We're still somewhat segmented as far as what we think.

Like, like, I still think I can go to my house on Friday afternoon and create the world I want and to help everybody else. and that has to change. I have, like, I say I because I'm susceptible to that. I think we all are. Like, we can go out and we can get, but this is not an eight to five job. And this is also not something, this is a life, like being willing to have a life that's interrupted.

Like, you will be interrupted. But that's another deeper, richer way to live. Like, like, the calls are going to come at midnight. Your community is 24-7. And I think that, I think that ultimately, when it's an all hands-on-day and we have us, like, you know, you look at what, and I know you've interviewed a lot of people locally, but, like, you look at like what Melvin Cole is doing, pure.

And we need, like, a thousand of him. And we, you know, we, and I mean, we all can be one of those people, you know, but someone who just responds in the space they are. But I will say, like, from the seminary and from my faith perspective, we talk a lot in the church about, you know, salvation and eternity and a place other than here. And we talk about belief in Jesus. But rather than talking about belief in Jesus,

we need to focus more on belief in what Jesus. taught and what he did. His actual example, he did everything you're talking about. The Samaritan understood it. I often say we need to remember that he surrounded himself with stinky fishermen and prostitutes.

And they weren't in the finest places in town. We'll be right back. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Like when Sarah Jessica Parker shared that she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. You forgot about it?

I completely forgot about it. And when the show was picked up, I panicked. And Cynthia Nixon reveals it. if she's a Miranda. We both feel confident about our brains. But that's kind of where it ends. Plus, Sex and the City superfan, Megan B. Stelion, doesn't hold back on her opinions of the show.

Carrie will literally go sit New York on fire and then come back and type about it at the end of the day. Like half of it wasn't her fault. Listen to Are you a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Amy Roboc, alongside T.J. Holmes, from the Amy and T.J. podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place.

What's fact? What's fake? And sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J. podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day. And listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. When you listen to podcasts about AI and tech and the future of humanity, the hosts always act like they know what they're talking about and they are experts at everything. Here, the Nick Dick and Poll show, we're not afraid to make mistakes.

What Kugler did that I think was so unique. He's the writer-director. Who do you think he is? I don't know. You meet the president? You think Canada has a president? You think China has a president? Does law a russet.

God, I love that thing. I use it all the time. I wrap it in a blanket and sing to it at life. It's like the old Polish saying, not my monkeys, not my circus. Yep. It was a good one. I like that saying. It is an actual Polish saying.

It is an actual Polish saying. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us.

The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From IHeart podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam.

I've taken a hit. from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. Fort Bridge on. Get out.

Freedom. Come in. Ah! Sun. Starring, Mary Tran, and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country

and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't think you can ever close the chapter on Megan, but let's just bring Megan full circle. And I love the story that you've told us that she's now in college. But from the perspective of what she's taught you. Man. That's going to make me cry.

So, you know, we came back from Kentucky, and there still wasn't a good, you know, I mean, there were good schools. but there wasn't something that was just right for what Megah needed. And so we went to Holy Rosary. Holy Rosary is a local Catholic elementary and middle school. Dead in the city. I used to break in Holy Rosary as a kid to play basketball during the summer. That's where I grew up. I'm just glad you said you were going to play basketball.

I grew up in apartments there. I did. Right next door. It used to have a vent thing in the roof. And we would break in on weekends. and play basketball. You'd go through the vent and the roof? Uh-huh.

And you'd go through the vent and the roof and they had these, like, metal trusses. You'd probably still see them in the gym. And if you kind of crawled across the trusses, you could drop down to the top of the bleachers about six feet. And then the doors opened from inside and the alarm would go off. So when we were finished, we just ran out and the alarm went off. To let them know that y'all are done. And next door, Barker Park is where we played baseball. Yeah.

So anyway, Holy Rosary, Megan. We showed up there pretty much unannounced one day, Crystal and I, and said, hey, we want to take you to Kentucky and show you what we've been a part of, and we think it would do really well in Memphis. And Darren Mullis head of school and Ann Gardino, they were like, yep, we'll go do it. And we told me, we'll pay for it. The Lexington School was incredibly gracious and giving us information that, you know, they used to start the program. The priest at Holy Rosary at the time was dyslexic himself. Holy smokes. So he understood it.

And so we started a program there. Megan started seventh grade at Holy Rosary. So you started the program for because of this? I say we did. I mean, we. Just another need to fill. Yeah. We inspired it.

I mean, the Holy Rosary started it. I mean, they championed it. Yeah. So Crystal was the first teacher there. No kidding. She discovered that she has a real guff for, I mean, she,

she wouldn't say this, but I mean, I'll tell you, and I don't buy it, but she can crack the code for any serious. who's struggling in school. And because she cares. And she's seen Megan go through this. And so she has compassion in it as well. So she started teaching there. And then Megan went there in seventh and eighth grade.

And then we started a matching program for that at St. Benedict, which I don't think they have that program. They still have the plus program, but they don't have that intensive program anymore. But Megan has taught me perseverance. She's taught me not to listen to the critics to just stay focused and keep doing what you know God has given you the ability to do, that your ability is limited, but there's a whole village there to join you. The more we discover our limitations, the deeper we're going to develop our community,

rather than our self-sufficiency and saying we can do it all ourselves. That's profound. And so, you know, you look at, like, I realize where you may not be materially impoverished or relationally impoverished. Where there's material poverty, there's relational abundance.

That's what she understands that. You know, in Charleston now, it's just amazing. She rides a bus to her internship in North Charleston. She's waiting at the bus stop a couple weeks ago, and she said this guy was up at the bus stop, just so I mean pacing back and forth and cussing and mad. And she goes, you know what?

That bus is going to get here when it's supposed to be here. It's going to be okay. Now, who would go up? I mean, who would go up to somebody having a breakdown? And the guy looks at her and said, you know what? You're right. I'm just going to relax.

I think we need more of that. My prayer every day is that, you know, light, we shine light, you know, in a dark world. I mean, and she does that. All of our girls do that, which is a blessing. And I think the time in seminary was for them as much as it was for me. We're going to end with this. Your story is an expression of faith. But as you've said, your faith wasn't always real to you.

You were a party animal in college. And even when you're married with kids, you kind of felt empty. how did faith become real to you in this context, not seminary, not any of that? But I think all of us would lie if we didn't say we all had incremental cracks in our faith. Absolutely, absolutely. Faith is a hard thing to have because we humans like proof. And I know everybody listened to our voice, whether they're faithful or not, if they're I think hopefully they have an open up the mind to hear about how faith matters to some people.

And for those that are faithful, everybody struggles at some point or another. And they certainly will have loved ones that do. So from a guy who's the CEO of a big real estate company who started there, who left, who's started programs or help usher or shepherd programs for dyslexia, been involved in all this stuff and has come back with an intent in Memphis to use those talents to develop things that are good for society and all of the little needs you've seen and filled throughout your life. I'm really curious when and how faith became real to you in the context of our listeners thinking about their own journey. I said earlier the phrase, you can't make this up,

can't make this stuff up. If I had a dollar for every time, my wife and I have said, you cannot make this stuff up. We would never have to work again for money. And those, every time we say that, it is without a doubt God work in our lives. When Crystal and I knew that we needed to go to Kentucky for Megan and for the seminary journey, but a lot for Megan,

we knew that's where God was leading us, and he was making sure we, our most deepest, most complex need was going to be met, and that was a school for Megan, because he knew that's where we needed to be for our family and for us to meet him, but we didn't know what to do with the house. And Crystal and I, we prayed in our den.

We said, God, we're going because it's so clear with this school being available and with the seminary, proximity, it's so clear that you're calling us there, we're going to go and we're going to let you deal with the house. We prayed that. That's not something we do. I mean, and the next day was when I just really ran into in the church office, the family who needed to run a house.

And the way all that came together, like what I learned and it became real when I realized how a dynamic God is and that if we're obedient to how he's speaking, his spirit is speaking to our spirit and our hearts. And if we follow that, that obedience also. allows him to work in other people's lives. So, like, our obedience to go to Kentucky provided a space for that family to live for three years. They actually ended up, they fostered a child in our house while they lived there,

who was in an incredibly tumultuous situation. And we had been involved together with the Eastside football team. And so he lived in our house while we were in Kentucky. That wouldn't have happened if we hadn't have been obedient in that. The way he just kept showing up, I can remember one night, Crystal is keeping the check. I've always kept the checkbook, except for just a short season. And we had like $5.

And we had like $5.00 and I flipped completely out. I can't believe they even keep your checking account open with $5. I freaked out. And I mean, I was like, I can't believe, you know, anyway, that night or that afternoon, go to the mailbox, and there's a check from an anonymous person. at the church who had sent us money that afternoon. I still to this day, I don't know who it came from.

But it was like, there you go. Like you need, you're in need. Like, I told you I wasn't going to bring you here and then let you just fail. So if you're listening to this and you don't, you may not have a faith framework. You know, there's a lot of ways in which you can explore that in a deeper way. But I just would say that in our life, when we have submitted to what we really in our hearts believe

what's God's plan for us, he showed up. And he never left us abandoned. I can't say that for really anything else in this world. I mean, when projects that you've loved burn down and there's double homicide, like the world is broken. But what he has never broken his promise. And I could spend another hour and a half telling you, all the ways in which he has come through on promises.

Megan probably is the most touching, sensitive one for me because he has worked in her life in such a powerful way, a person who the world would say they, as hard as this is to say, the world would say they don't have any use for. And he's turned her into this amazing, light. And only he can do that.

There's nothing I can do. There's nothing you can do. We can be stewards, but ultimately he has to empower it for it to really make change. You can go in any neighborhood in the city and you can hear that message because it's out there.

So I hope that was a good answer. Greg Spillard's, the CEO of Cushman and Wakefield Commercial Advisors, which is his professional title. But what he is is he's a citizen of his home, Memphis, who sees areas of needs, sees gaps, and looks to fill him. It's just a normal dude who works to make his world and his community a better place. It's a perfect example of what this entire show and all the service. clubs and all the work Alex does. It's just a perfect example of what we're just saying to everybody is.

Greg did not start a 501c3. He does not run some massive philanthropic project. It's just a guy who sees need and fills it, follows his heart, and lets his faith guide him, who happens to be the CEO of Gushman Wayford Commercial Advisors. I almost liken it to one time I attended a deal that Kyle Rote Jr. spoke at. And Kyle Rote's been a very successful guy, very successful, both professionally and athletically and all of it. And I remember he said, I'm not special because of all the things I'm accomplished. I'm only special because I'm a child of God.

And it's kind of in the same vein, you're not here because you're the CEO of Cushman in Wakefield Commercial Advisors. You're here because you're a guy that's looked neat and filled it. And that's the redemption of your story, Greg. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate you sharing it. Alex, you got anything else from behind the curtain. You can open the curtain out. Oh, look, there's Alex.

I think just to highlight, like, you don't have to also leave your job to go to Africa to make an impact. You're already doing a real estate. And there's something you can do with that to help other people. or same thing with your doctor and you go volunteer at church health that's right it's a great example that you don't have to like quit your job and do something different to be helpful in your community so we all have talents we all see needs we just use our passion and those talents for those needs we can change world i wanted to plug your employee adrian but i think we're out of time but you can go the

i forgot to put in the prep are you actually are you guys okay with five more minutes i'm okay with four for can you talk about and there's a cool opportunity to celebrate a normal person can you talk about adrian garcia yeah so our uh lead maintenance tech at crosstown concourse which is an unprecedented mixed juice we record there and yeah it's awesome so we we manage that and um our lead maintenance tech adrian garcia in december i think it was december 7th todd richardson who was the visionary for cross town really championed it all the way from day one to now. Been working out that morning, went back up to his apartment, and suffered a cardiac event. His wife was there.

Fortunately, she was calling for help. She was trying to revive him. He was on the floor, turning purple. She calls the security. or Adrian was standing right next to security. They told him to turn a maintenance man. Yeah, maintenance. He told him to change his radio channel to the security channel.

He heard on there that there was an emergency and apartment number, blah, blah, blah. He recognized that that was Todd's apartment. Immediately doesn't ask any questions, heads to the apartment. As he gets off the elevator, between the elevator and the apartment, he just grabs an AED, not knowing what's going on, drives a defibrillator, walks in the apartment, calmly, you know, sees what's going on, walks over to Todd, who at this point had, I mean, I don't know how long he'd been out, but he said he was just purple, hooks the AD up and implements, you know, does what he used to do, brings Todd back to life, saved his life.

So Todd's wife and Adrian thoroughly saved his life. Adrian, so this was the same day as our Christmas, I was driving back, go up to all Adrian, he's working. Like, it's like, he saved a guy's life seven hours before. And now he's changing light bulbs. And he's like out there doing what he would have been doing. I said, hey, and Adrian, like, are you okay? Yeah, boss, I'm good.

I'm good. He goes, you know, I did what anybody would have done. He didn't want to talk about it. He didn't want any fanfare, but we, of course, gave him plenty of fanfare. Well, Jeff Colkins wrote a great piece on it. Yes, it was really good. Yeah, Jeff Calkins is a local reporter, esteemed reporter here in Memphis. But again, being where you need to be, doing you need to do.

Just being where you need to be. That's a very significant example, though. That's it. Greg, thanks for being here. Thanks for sharing your story. It's awesome. I learned a lot. Thanks for what you're good. It's awesome to get the whole story behind you.

And I can't wait until you do next. Thanks, man. And thank you for joining us this week. week. If Greg has inspired you in general or better yet to take action by better leveraging your career to pursue a calling, exploring starting a specialty learning program in your own community, or something else entirely, let me know. I really do want to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks.us. And all you got to do is ask anybody that's ever emailed me there, I will respond. And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends and on social.

Subscribe to the podcast. Rate it, review it. Join the army at normalfolks.com. Any and all of these things that will help us grow. An army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do it you can. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick & Poll show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win Stupid Prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift, who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was.

I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday, May 2nd, country stars will be in Austin, Texas. at our 2026 IHard Country Festival presented by Capital One. Tickets are on sale now. Get yours before they sell out at Ticketmaster.com.

That's Ticketmaster.com. Hey there, folks. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials, and what the hell is that Blake lively thing about anyway? We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and TJ for news updates throughout the day. Listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us.

From IHeart Podcasts, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. It's for Vietnam. They're pouring patrols all over here. Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire. Fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything.

Listen to Saigon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.