An Old Timey Podcast - 1: Chaotic Good: John Brown and the Pottawatomie Massacre (Part 1)

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

Clear everything off your calendar — this episode is a MEATY BOY! Norm kicks off our first episode by introducing himself as my lover/husband, then launches into a veeerrry deep dive into famed anti-slavery crusader, John Brown. You’ll laugh! You’ll get uncomfy! You might even get a lil’ turned on, imagining John Brown on the cover of Threatening Boyz magazine!And if you want to learn more about John Brown, you’re in luck. This episode is just about the rise of John Brown. Norm will cover John Brown’s raid at Harpers Ferry, and his subsequent execution, in episode three.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: “Midnight Rising: John Brown and the Raid That Sparked the Civil War” by Tony Horwitz“To Purge This Land With Blood: A Biography of John Brown” by Stephen Oates“Bleeding Kansas: Contested Liberty in the Civil War Era” by Nicole EtchesonCivil War on the Western Border - https://civilwaronthewesternborder.org/Kansas Historical Society - https://www.kshs.org/kansapedia/john-brown/11731To get bonus episodes of the show, watch videos of the full recording, or just chill with us in Discord, support us on Patreon! By signing up, you'll get immediate access to all of the bonus episodes and videos from Kristin's previous podcast, Let's Go To Court!

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm Herlova. Oh my God. Norman Caruso. That's how you want to start? Yep.

And on this week's episode, I'll be talking about John Brown and the Potawatomi Massacre. Shut up! Oh, yeah. Are you really? Yeah. Okay. Do you think people know? about John Brown?

I think they know about some of his escapades, yes. Okay, okay. Yep. But, you know, I've been keeping this a secret from you for, like, the past month. Uh-huh. You know, I'd be researching this, and every time you would come into my office, I would scramble and hide stuff. Uh-huh.

And I'd say, Kristen, I was just watching porn. I was definitely not researching John Brown. So you're saying you were only watching porn a couple of those times. Exactly. Mostly, you were jerking it to John Brown. Yes, because, man, I love John Brown. Well, I mean, dude was a badass, anti-slavery, and he meant it because he murdered people for it. But I actually don't know a ton about him, although we did go to his house.

We did, but let's save it. Let's not, let's not blow our load so early in the episode, okay? Norman. I thought with this podcast, maybe it'd be a little more. more family-friendly. And you introduced yourself as my lover, which is a disgusting word. No one needs to do. But I am your lover. That's people don't need to know. Anyway, this is our first episode. So maybe we should talk to the people.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Hello, people. If you're listening, first of all, thank you. And if you're watching, thank you. People who are supporting us at the $10 level on Patreon are watching this video. Yeah, as long as the cameras don't give out. Okay, well, don't say that. I'm a little nervous. God damn. I think they'll be okay. Okay.

Yeah, thank you for listening. This is our very, I was about to say, very new podcast. This is our first episode together, and it's a history podcast. Yep. And it's a history podcast because we love history. It's true, Kristen. We do love history. I majored in history.

Okay, well, it's not a contest. Have a few grad school credits in history. Okay. You know, I have a very successful YouTube channel called The Gaming Astoring, which is the history of video games. I heard it kind of sucks. You know, I have such little confidence I would believe it if you told me that. Oh, wow. Okay, no, you have a great YouTube show.

You've got a million fucking subscribers, so calm down. But I love all sorts of history, so I'm super excited to do this podcast. Me too. We consider ourselves history hoes. We are hoes for history. You shouldn't just say it like that. One of, so we, we polled people, we asked people what we should call this podcast, had a lot of suggestions. We did.

Some of them quite good. The one that people really wanted was history hoes. Yeah, people really, really liked that name. My dad in particular really, really wanted this podcast to be called History Ho and Her Gigolo. True story, yep. Again, that was my father. who wanted that. He texted me that idea. I said no. He texted me in a bigger group chat. I said no again. He posted about it in the fan group for my rest in peace podcast. Let's go to court. And then when we had our live shows, he walked the line talking to fans trying to recruit them to the cause. Yeah. See, I don't know why you're so concerned with me saying that I'm your lover when your dad is going around calling me calling you. Calling me a history.

A history ho, and I'm the jiggleau. Implying that I sleep with many women. Maybe you're not a very successful jiggleau. Did you ever think about that? Yeah, I've got one client. Yeah. I'm married to her. And she doesn't pay shit.

She doesn't even pay me. Well, anyway, that's a sad, true story. But yeah, this is called an old-timey podcast. Yeah. But the listeners. Yeah. Are called history hoes, whether you like it or not. Yeah, that's official.

when we decided we wanted to do a history podcast, I think, yeah, my first immediate thought was, oh, we'll just call it old-timey podcast. Yeah. And like we workshopped a few like ye old-timey or the old-timey, but, yeah, we settled on an old-timey podcast. We pulled the listeners. They loved it too. Yeah. It's a great name. Overwhelmingly.

But then we talked to some people who didn't listen to Let's Go to Court and they were like, that name sucks. They're like, when does that even mean? So we got insecure. We got very insecure. As a history, how will, sometimes. I locked myself in my office for days thinking about it. And then we did a poll without old timey as an option. Uh-huh.

And the people were a little upset about it. Some people. And so poop their pants. Yeah, but we both really liked the name. And so we just said, F the haters. We're calling it an old-timey podcast. And I just love that we can say, you down. with OTP.

We can say that. Yeah, you know me. Absolutely. All right. Anyhow, should we talk about the format of the show? Yes. Okay, format of the show is this week you are telling me a story about John Brown, who kicked ass, took names, and murdered enslavers, yes?

You seem to be a real big fan of John Brown. I mean, well, more to come. Everybody keep their pants on. And next week, I'll tell you a story. So on and so forth, forever and ever in it. And there will be, you know, there will be tangents. There will be jokes. But we guarantee every story we tell will be super interesting and old-timey.

We guarantee it. Guarantee it or your money back. I don't know. I don't know that I would accept a guarantee from a man who introduced himself first as a lover. I am your lover and your husband. Real men are both. They're lovers and husbands. Okay.

that's yeah yeah you're right i hate that you're forcing me to agree with exactly because a lot of people sometimes they're husbands but not lovers or sometimes they're lovers but not husbands well it's okay to be a lover and not be a husband don't you agree but what if you're married you gotta be you got to be a good husband let's move on this is not this is not relationship talk radio this is an old time you podcast it sure is and oh my gosh you're probably wondering my god i'm what are we five minutes deep into this thing? Yeah, eight minutes. Oh, eight whole minutes.

And you're loving it because you're a history ho. I can already tell. And so you're thinking, how do I support them on Patreon? Well, you head on over to, oh gosh, it's still under the old name. Let's go to court podcasts. Okay. Well. Just go to patreon.com slash LGTC Podcast for now.

If it doesn't pop up, just search old-timey podcast, Patreon, and it should come up. We may have changed it by the time this episode. Oh, boy, we've really got our shit together, don't we? Yeah. Okay. Kristen, what do they get? Oh, okay. At the $5 level or higher, you get the backlog of Let's Go to Court bonus episodes.

That's my old podcast. I think we had 57 bonus episodes. So anyway. 57 and yeah, a whole bunch of other stuff, but we'll get to that. Also, you get into the Discord and you get a monthly bonus episode. Will this month's bonus episode be an episode of Asked? an old white guy by my father, the inventor of the name we previously mentioned for this podcast. Or will it be a bonus episode from this very podcast?

Who knows? We don't know. We're just winging it here. We'll figure it out. And at the $10 level on our Patreon, you get access to all of that, plus a sticker and our autographs. Ooh, ooh, ooh. And also, don't say, oh, wow, like that.

Have some enthusiasm, like you're a lover and a husband. Oh, right. Okay. And then you get all the bonus videos. And if you want to watch the videos of the final two live shows from Let's Go to Court, get on over at the $10 level. At $10 level is where it's at. Oh, is it?

Yeah. Is that where all the hose are at? That's where all the hose hang out. Okay. Great. The history hose. Okay. Are you going to take it away?

Yeah, can I take it from here? I think you can. Can I get de mic? Ew. What? There was an old PlayStation 2 game. It was like a rapper karaoke game. I think it was called like Get to Mike or On to Mike or something.

Really? Yeah, it was bad. It sounds terrible. Yeah. But better when you say it. I worked at GameStop. People traded that game in all the time. With tears in your eyes.

Maybe it was Get On to Mike. That makes sense. Anyway. Speaking of getting on to Mike. Uh-huh. Kristen. You grew up in the great state of Kansas. I did.

What did you learn about John Brown? Oh. Well, first of all, I, it's very rude of you to bring up anything that I was educated on. Okay. I was diagnosed with ADHD at the tender age of 37. Oh, so? So I remembered nothing. No, I, okay.

In Kansas, fourth grade was when you learned about your state history. Right. And so I definitely remember. I remember hearing the name John Brown. But, you know, we were a bunch of white kids learning about slavery, and it was kind of like, our state did the right thing. We were a free state. Here's this guy, John Brown.

He was a little dutty. Now let's square dance. Kansas was a free state, but it was a violent path to becoming a free state. I'll say that. Spoiler alert. Bleeding Kansas. You're right. Yeah, I know I'm right.

I remember some things. So John Brown is probably one of the most interesting people in American history. IMO. I grew up in North Carolina. I was a Southern boy. Okay. And we learned about John Brown, but what we learned was he was a crazy guy who raided Harper's Ferry, Virginia, the Federal Armory, to try to incite a slave rebellion. And he failed.

Yeah. It's a little paragraph in our textbooks. It's all I knew about him. Then I moved here and I learned, oh, he was in Kansas. Oh, he did some interesting things in Kansas, which we're going to talk about. Mm-hmm. And so I thought, gosh, I would love for my first episode to be about this guy and just learn all about him. And I originally wanted to do an episode covering his whole life, but it's so darn interesting.

I'm going to cut it up into two episodes. Oh, cut it up, huh? foreshadowing. I love it. This will focus on the rise of John Brown, and then on my next episode, I'll talk about the fall of John Brown. Now, Norm, you're cutting this in two, but will this be a meaty boy? Yeah, they're both going to be meaty, meaty, nice and... Juicy?

Tender. I'm trying to think of something that rhymes with meaty, meaty, meaty. Needy, needy, you're meaty, meady, okay, that's enough. Needy, needy, that meaty, beady, I don't know. This is so terrible. Patty, we can't cut any of this. They're all gems. Okay.

So John Brown died after Harper's Ferry. He was executed. And he became a martyr for the abolitionist cause. And across the United States, there are statues, museums, plaques, paintings. There's even songs dedicated to John Brown. Oh, really? Yes. You going to sing a little ditty?

Let me think. John Brown's body lies a moldering in the grave. Oh, my. Yeah, it's to the battle him of the republic. His soul goes marching on. I was trying to do a gotcha moment. I didn't know you actually knew a song. Yeah.

Oh, well. And it was written in like 1860, like right after he died. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Historians today still argue whether John Brown was a hero or a terrorist. Well, he was... What do you think?

I guess you don't know. You don't know much about John Brown. I feel like I know some. I know that he was a terrorist against slavery, which are you really a terrorist if you're fighting against slavery? I don't know. I guess we'll find out. Okay. I will say, though, the younger generation, those millennials, these Gen Ziers, these.

These. Whatever's below Gen. Gen subterrainians or. Uh-huh. They've kind of memified John Brown. So you can buy t-shirts and stickers with a portrait of John Brown wearing sunglasses. And under it, it'll say John Brown did nothing wrong. I mean...

They're very popular. Okay. Do you disagree? What? He did nothing wrong? Let me tell my story first. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh, my gosh.

I just spat. I'm sorry for that, too. Yeah. And I'm double sorry. I see smoke coming from the microphone. No, I'm double sorry that the... Oh, boy. Video might have caught that.

Disgusting. We'll save that for TikTok. On Reddit, the subreddit known as Chaotic Good. The profile picture is John Brown. And that's a great way to describe John Brown. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Yeah. That's perfect. Because he was a bit of a nut, but for a good cause. Yeah. So today, let's talk about the rise of John Brown and the Potawatomi Massacre. Everyone were giving each other very meaningful looks. My lover is giving me a meaningful look as he talks about a massacre. How about a meatyful look?

Because it's going to be a big, meaty episode. Okay. Okay, I want to start off this episode, Kristen, with a pop quiz. Sorry. Pop quiz. Okay. Can you tell me if anything special happened on July 4th, 1717. Yeah. We told those British folks to fuck off. That's American history in a nutshell.

I'm going to give you credit for that. Yes. Well, of course. What the hell was that? Everyone, Norm has new technology. Oh, yeah. Well, one of my requirements for doing this podcast was I wanted a new interface with a soundboard so I can do fun noises. Okay, but what was that? Thank you. That's the we got a new soundboard noise. Okay. when I tell my hilarious jokes. Works great, huh?

It does. What was the yes? Yes. What is that? That's Principal Skinner from the Simpsons. Oh, my God. Everyone, anytime Norman says anything that seems slightly to not fit the conversation,

it's from the Simpsons. Hell no. Is that one of the Flanders voice? That's Todd Flanders, yeah. It's either Hank Hill or the Simpsons. Sniff my butt hole. Oh, sniff my, sniff my, sniff my butthole. Yeah, I have that too.

That's AI generated. I never actually said that. Nope, that is from an episode of Let's Go to Card. Anyway, let's get back to the episode. I'm having too much fun with this soundboard. Okay. So, Kristen, what happened on July 4, 1776? You said, we told the British to fuck off, right?

Yes. That's basically right. The Continental Congress unanimously approved the Declaration of There we go. And this document caused patriotic fever throughout the colonies. And men were eager to join the Continental Army and fight for independence from the British. How far back are you starting this story? July 4, 1776.

That's ridiculous. Oh, next week I'm going to talk about Monica Lewinsky. We start in 1634. Okay. What? Can I tell my story, please? Yes, you can. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Oh my gosh, this podcast is already canceled. One guy who was ready to fight was a Connecticut farmer named John Brown. Okay. I told you this episode was about John Brown. John Brown had always lived in the New England area. In fact, he could trace his lineage back to a pilgrim on the Mayflower. Oh. Mm-hmm.

John and his wife Hannah had 10 kids. Also, by the way, Hannah was pregnant. Of course she was. But that didn't matter to John. He felt the calling to serve after the signing of the Declaration of Independence. So he led a group of local volunteers off to New York to fight in the war. Was this one of those things where you kind of didn't have a choice if you were a man of a certain age? You just kind of had to fight?

No, he went off. He was a volunteer. Oh, my God. You got 10 kids at home. Okay. Well, less than a month later, disease broke out in John Brown's army encampment. And sadly, John Brown died in a barn in New York from dysentery. That's a terrible way to go.

And that's the story of John Brown. This is not a meaty boy. Yes. No, it is. Okay. According to the Cleveland Clinic, dysentery is a gastrointestinal disease. Its causes include bacterial or parasitic infections. Symptoms include diarrhea, fever, nausea, vomiting, weight loss, and stomach cramps.

Your health care provider can diagnose dysentery with a stool culture. Treatment includes antibiotics, which they did not have back then. I like how upbeat you were, as you told us, the symptoms of dysentery. Yeah, well, I wanted to be like someone on a commercial. Yeah, okay. Because they're always like, talk to your health care provider. Side effects include killing yourself. Yeah.

Yeah. And the people always look so happy because they're in bathtubs at the end of a dock overlooking a lake. Well, John Brown would have been in a bathtub shitting himself. Okay. And sadly, this was a common way to die in war. Mm-hmm. At the time, historians believe that during the Revolutionary War, 6,800 Americans lost their lives in battle and 17,000 died from disease.

Okay. Do you remember that weird little Civil War Museum we went to in Missouri? In St. Louis? Yes. Yeah. That was one of the weird. I shouldn't say weird as, okay. It was a great museum.

Sorry, museum. I liked it. I didn't. Well, okay. Anyhow, one of the things I learned at that museum was how many people died from disease. Right. Because that was before germs were invented. That was before germs were invented?

It was a joke. Norm, I'm hilarious. It was before people really knew about germs, right? They didn't know about like, you got to wash that little tin cup. You can't just share it with 12 partners or you're going to be shitting yourself to death. Yeah, I mean, they back then they thought to cure anything, you just have to bleed. Yeah. They have to like drain blood from you.

But anyway, so John Brown died in New York less than a month after leaving his home. And back home, he left behind 10 children in a pregnant. wife. And by the way, he was a farmer. So hard work. Yeah. Is that it? Just wanted to give a picture of how rough it probably was for Hannah and her 10 children plus one on the way. But I do want to focus on their eighth child. His name was Owen Brown. And whenever I hear the name, Owen, I always think of that movie, Throw Mama from the Train. Do you ever see that? I don't think so. She would say, Owen.

Okay. Billy Crystal, Danny DeVito. It's a funny movie. Owen. Anyway, Owen Brown was five years old when his dad died. And his mother, Hannah, was left to run the farm and raise 11 children. So obviously, this was incredibly hard. They lost all of their crops.

They were very, very poor. I'm sure. And at the age of 12, Owen went off on his own. Wow. Because his family had basically broken. apart. His mother couldn't support all of them. Of course not. So he worked as a cobbler, and then a local pastor took Owen under his wing, and Owen became very religious. He was a Calvinist. Oh. Familiar with Calvinism, Kristen? I'm familiar with the word. Was that the super serious one?

Like, no dancing, no laughing, no talking. Any theologians listening, please, forgive me. I don't study religion. But from what I understand, Calvinism, it's not its own church. It's not like there's a church of the Calvinists we can go to. It's just an interpretation of Christianity based on the teachings of John Calvin. Okay. What do he teach? So they believe that we owe our allegiance to God's law over any human law. And they believe in predestination, so God will choose who will be saved. They had no attachments to anything in life. Life on earth was an ongoing trial to get to heaven.

You know, people be sinning, Kristen. I'm always saying that. Yeah. And so we have to do all we can to resist temptations from the devil. If we wanted God to save our miserable, pathetic souls. Okay. It's a really fun way to live, Kristen. What? Do you know what was considered like a temptation from the devil in Calvinism?

Oh, I mean. Basically anything. Anything fun. Oh. I mean, pleasure. Pleasure was probably bad. How'd they feel about lovers slash husbands? Would not approve of lovers.

Yeah. Okay. But Owen was also taught that the greatest sin of mankind, was slavery. Yeah. So let's talk about slavery. Please, let's. So the colonies obviously win the Revolutionary War, obviously were way better than the British.

So we obviously won, Kristen. Everyone, I feel like I should let you know that I hate fake British accents, and my husband knows this. Yes. And we became the United States of America. But all the states were very different. And at the turn of the century, the northern states became more populous and industrial, and the southern states were more about agriculture and slavery. Cotton was one of the top exports of the United States, and cotton plantations were very lucrative because the labor was free, right?

Imagine that. Okay. Southerners also dominated government, and a big reason why was the third. three-fifths compromise. Familiar with this, Kristen? You're embarrassing me. I'm familiar with the term. I have no idea what it is. The three-fifths compromise basically said that an enslaved person was three-fifths of a person. Oh. And so the math is five enslaved people represented three people.

Oh, my God. This was written into the Constitution. Right. And so what it did was it made the South's population numbers very, very large, although enslaved people couldn't vote. And so in turn. So they got representation. Southerners got much more representation in government because of those inflated population numbers. And they weren't even inflated properly because they viewed, okay, wow, that sucks.

Right. All right. Slavery was referred to at this time as the peculiar institution. It seemed like a strange thing that only existed in the South. And as long as Northerners didn't really see it or hear about it, they were basically okay with it. But this became a very big problem when the United States expanded into new territories and made new states. because then northerners became exposed to slavery and it became a problem. But we'll get into that later.

How did they, okay. Sorry, what were you going to ask? Well, I was going to ask, how did they become exposed to it? Well, when new territories and states open up, southerners move there and northerners move there. Okay, okay, gotcha. And they're like, whoa, you own people. Right. That's weird.

Okay. I don't like that. Yeah. Let's go back to Owen Brown. So, yes, he absolutely detested slavery, and he was very proud that his home state of Connecticut had abolished slavery in 1787. One time he traveled to Virginia, and he was shocked to hear a sermon that defended slavery. Mm-hmm. He was so appalled he became a very public outspoken opponent of the practice.

He would say, to hold humans in bondage, was a sin against God. Yeah. Not a very exciting quote, but I think we can all agree with the sentiment, right? Yes. Yeah. In 1793, Owen Brown was in love. Oh.

Mm-hmm. He married a minister's daughter, Ruth Mills. And when I was researching this, I could not get this freaking song out of my head. Do you remember the Disney Channel movie, My Date with the President's daughter? I do remember that movie. Okay, the theme song, my date with the president's daughter. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So I just said, my date with the minister's daughter. How, okay. You made quite a leap, but I'm with you. Yeah. The movie starred Will Friedel from Boy Meets World. He was Eric on Boy Meets World. Oh, okay. Yeah.

That's the joke. That's the joke. That's all I got. Your confidence is too much for me right now. Yeah. So anyway, Owen Brown married Ruth Mills in 1793, and as a deeply religious family, having kids was a command of God. So Ruth dropped her pantaloons and said, hop to it! I'm about to bust.

Oh, my God. What the? Is that Hank Hill? I'm about to bust. Gross. Yeah, it is Hank Hill. After he had a big meal, I assume. Yeah, and he had to use the bathroom.

They're just not some weird. to bust. Seen with Peg? No. What other fun things do you have queued up for? I'll surprise you. Okay, great.

Well, sadly, their dream of having children did not go well in the beginning. Their first child named Salmon died... Did you just laugh? Simon? Salmon.

Their first child named salmon died at the age of two. Their second son... What? Was it really named Sam? His name was salmon. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, that's how it's spelled. Maybe they pronounced it Solomon. I don't know. Surely it's salmon, though. Okay. Well, sorry, I'm not laughing at the child dying. You're laughing at his name. Yes.

Just to make that clear. Don't worry. This name will come up again in this episode. Oh, great. It was a family name, so they named many children salmon. Their second son died at birth. Trout? Sorry, that was wrong.

Hmm Kristen, during the 1800s, 43% of children did not survive past the age of five. Are you trying to make me feel like shit? Just because shrimps can't be... Okay. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Let's get to some good news. Okay. In 1798, they had a daughter named Anna who survived and lived into adulthood. Good. The next year in 1799, Owen Brown was ready to give his family and businesses a fresh start.

So he moved his family to a two-story saltbox house in beautiful Torrington, Connecticut. Oh. Population today, 35,000. Is the saltbox still standing? No. Oh, okay. You love a good saltbox house. I know you do.

It's a classic look. And Torrington, Connecticut, population 35,000, pretty big city. If I do say so myself. Uh-huh. At the turn of the century on May 9, 1800, Owen and Ruth had another child, and they named him John after his grandfather. Good. What are you looking at me? Nothing.

I am holding back a lot of seafood jokes because I feel wrong about laughing at little salmon. Yeah. What's the name of that Captain Gordon? Is that the fish stick company? Gordon's Fish Sticks? That doesn't sound right. Gordon's not a very... History hose, that's your homework for this episode.

Find out who makes those fish sticks. They're really good. We can't possibly be bothered to Google it right now. Yes, May 9, 1800, Owen and Ruth had another child, and they named him John. It was, of course, a blessing considering the hardships they had endured, which Kristen thought was funny. No, I didn't. But Owen wrote about John's birth like it was any other day. Would you like to hear what Owen wrote when John was born?

Yeah. In 1800, May 9th, John was born. Nothing very uncommon. Okay. That's it. Is he short on paper? Of course, John Brown's life would prove to be anything but common. Suck on that, Owen.

Today, the house he was born in. Yeah, it's no longer around. But there is a little stone that denotes where the house was, and it's on John Brown. road. So I kind of honor him a little bit. You love a good plaque. Love a good plaque. You stop and read every plaque.

I'm going to put a plaque on our house. What's it going to say? This is where Kristen and her lover live. The gaming historian and his history hoe live. Oh, God. You're a jiggleau and nothing more. John Brown, or J.B., as I like to call him, grew up learning all of the religious habits that Owen practiced, including his hatred of slavery.

Any acts of sin John committed were met with not only a day of reflection, but a rod beating. Oh. Terror and doom awaited anyone who strayed from the path of righteousness. And honestly, I really don't want the day of reflection. Just give me the rod. I couldn't take a day of reflection. You couldn't take just a silent... No, it's torture.

Period. To think your own thoughts. No. Feel that shame wash over you. I mean, you got some terrible punishments from DP growing up. Don't call him DP when you talk about terrible punishments. That just sounds disgusting. Okay.

New listeners to this podcast should know. My dad's name is Daryl Pitts, and he refers to himself as DP. And history hose know the alternative definitions for D.P. I'm not familiar. Dr. Pepper? Yeah, that's it. But he would say, like, if you were me and I were you, what would you do?

He would do stuff like that, right? Okay, when I would get in trouble as a kid, we would get punished by first we had to go to the stairs and sit and think for a while, which I hated. And then my dad would come over and he'd give a lecture. And the lecture lasted for 12 years. and it was like, you know, here's what you did, here's why it's wrong, blah, blah, blah. And then it would always end with, now put yourself in my shoes.

What punishment do you think is appropriate here? And, okay, I tell this story to other people, and other people are like, oh, that's not that bad. Then you just, you know, give yourself some light punishment. Nay, no, you do not. Because if you do that, the lecture starts from the beginning. Of course. So what you have to say is, I think I should be flung from a train. Yeah, you give yourself the ultimate punishment.

Yes. You say, um. And then he walks it back. You say, I'm going to buy a bullet and rent a gun. Oh, okay. Because you're a kid. You can't afford. Right.

You know. It's all about what you can afford. I stole that joke. I'm sorry. Wow. From whom? It's from Vegas vacation. It's one of my favorite lines from that movie.

How were you punished? as a child. Well, I got spanked, got grounded, took video games away, you know, standard child punishments. Yeah. Yeah. That sound pretty normal. You didn't get any long lectures. Not really.

You know, I got spanked when I was like 15 years old one time. I'll tell that story. Sexy woman. By my mom. It's pretty funny. Well, are you, what, do you not have time right now? No, this is a huge episode. Oh, okay.

I'm sorry. Everyone, you know, prepare to be titillated later. If you subscribe to the Patreon and I'll tell my tale. You know, this episode is only going out to patrons for a while. So I think they're going to feel like, well, here we are. Oh, crap. Ready to hear about you getting spanked. Anyway.

In 1805, Owen Brown, he got restless again. His businesses weren't doing very well. He was running a tannery now. And he was still a cobbler making them shoes. But he saw opportunity. in the new state of Ohio. He could get cheap land. He could make a name for himself

in a brand new community. And he could spread the word of God along the frontier. And so when John Brown was five years old, his family moved to Hudson, Ohio, in the northeast part of the state. And there, Owen opened up a new tannery. And admittedly, Kristen,

what? I had to look up what a tannery was. I wasn't confident enough to... I thought it had something to do with leather, but I wasn't sure. It's like animal hides or something? Animal hides. It's where they make leather.

It's basically a skin factory. Ew. God. I mean, you're not wrong. Yes. Young John Brown loved living in Ohio. He described it as a wilderness filled with wild beasts and Indians.

And Brown, he had a very strict religious upbringing, obviously. But he was also a very sensitive boy. He had a pet squirrel named Bobtail who he said that he idolized

loved his pet squirrel sadly the squirrel died and John said he mourned the loss for a year or two oh wow he befriended nearby Seneca Native Americans and one of the children gave him a yellow marble as a gift

and he lost the marble and apparently he cried for days when he lost the marble this poor boy he was sensitive. Yeah. Well, a big reason I think these things affected him so much was because life was very hard for him as a child. Yeah. And so any small source of happiness is very precious to him. Yeah. Him and his family lived in a cramped, drafty log cabin. Well, and there were like a million of them, right? Yeah, the family kept growing and growing. Yeah. And then at the age of eight,

John's mother, Ruth, died while giving birth. But his father quickly remarried and the family continued to grow. In fact, by the end of Owen Brown's life, he would be married three times and father 16 children. Talk about history, ho. Mm-hmm. Can you imagine shining a black light in that cabin, Kristen? Norman. I'm about to bust.

Gosh, that is gross. Hey, he's command of God, he's got to have kids. Well, he did it. Although John Brown's father remarried, John never became attached to his stepmothers. Okay. Was never close with them. His mother's death greatly affected him. He became a hard, tough, stubborn, fiercely independent kid.

He quit school and he started working for his father at the tannery. In 1812, the appropriately named War of the War of, 1812 broke out between the United States and their number one rival, Britain, England. Okay. They're at it again, Kristen. They're fighting again. Those damp Brits. Yeah.

Well, Owen Brown decided to support the war effort and he sold cattle to U.S. forces stationed up in Michigan. I want you to prepare yourself for this. Okay. Owen had John, who's 12 years old, take these cattle by himself over 100 miles to Michigan. Oh my God. That's a tough job. Did he do it? He did.

Yep, he drove the cattle all the way up through to Michigan. And this is through wilderness, by the way. This is not like he just took a road. Right. He wasn't on like I-70, you know. That's incredible. During this trip, John stayed with a man who was an enslaver, and he had an enslaved boy, about the same age as John. This was kind of John's first experience.

Wow. Seeing slavery up close, yeah. And he noted that the boy was poorly fed, he was badly clothed, and while John was treated very well, this enslaved boy was not. he was beaten with an iron fire shovel in front of John. Oh, my God. Well, he was there. And Brown vividly remembered this moment as the beginning of his self-proclaimed eternal war against slavery.

Well, yeah, I mean, it's, it backs up everything that his father had taught him about slavery. And now he sees it up close. Yeah. And he, I think the fact that he was treated so well, but this boy was not. And they were the same age, which I think really like, that would make a huge impact on any kid. Of course it would, yeah. The Browns practiced what they preached when it came to slavery. The town of Hudson, Ohio became a stop on the Underground Railroad as fugitive enslaved people made their way to Canada.

Owen and John gave aid to run away enslaved people, and John would do this for the rest of his life. That's awesome. Yeah. but at the age of 16 John Brown felt he lacked purpose he said he quote picked up bad habits but he never actually explained

what those bad habits were which I thought was interesting he said he felt a lot of guilt what do you think what do you think they were I mean it couldn't have been that bad right he had so much guilt and he saw a lady's ankle and he felt lust

he said I'm about to bust I'm about to bust. Yeah. Then he felt guilt. As he should. Never covet an ankle, I always say. Mm-hmm. Well, he was seeking purpose now, so he turned back to religion.

And he went off to New England to study the ministry. But while he was in school there, he ran out of money, so he had to come home. So at the age of 18, John Brown was back in Ohio. But he was now a grown-ass adult, Kristen. Okay. Taking cattle 200 miles this time. I want to describe for you what John Brown looked like. Okay.

Okay. Kristen, if there was a magazine called Threatening Boys Magazine, John Brown's on the front cover. Okay. Threatening Boys Magazine? Threatening Boys Magazine. Is this like teen pop only edgier? Exactly.

Wait, it was Teen Beat, wasn't it? Teen Beat. Okay. Threatening Boys Magazine. History Hose, check your local newsstand. Get the latest issue of Threatening Boys Magazine. John Brown was about 5'10, which was somewhat tall for the time. Probably really tall for the time, yeah.

He was strong, lean, dark hair, thin lips, and a very chiseled chin. How chiseled was it? It was a chin you could set your watch to, Kristen. What does that even mean? It was the perfect chin. It was on time. You know, usually people talk about a chiseled jaw line. He had a chiseled chin.

Real flabby jaw. Well, I'll include the jaw line too. It was all chiseled. He had piercing steel gray eyes, and people said his eyes were full of light and fire. Honestly, John Brown was very sexy. He was a threatening boy. Yes. Threatening Boys Magazine.

Yep. Norm, what would it take for you to be featured in Threatening Boys Magazine? I could never get into that magazine. Try as you might. No matter what I do, I just don't look threatening. John Brown looked threatening. Well, yeah, and he led a massacre, spoiler alert. So, yeah, he's a threatening boy.

Yeah, but not me. No. No. Non-threatening Boy magazine for you. That's me. Sweet boy magazine. And I wouldn't be on the cover. I'd be like...

Inside. Yeah, I'd be like a write-in. A write-in. Yeah. I love your magazine and I'd love to be featured. You know, people would do that and they'd include a photo. Uh-huh. Yeah.

It'd be like letters to the... Boy. Yeah. Anyway. Let's keep going. When John Brown got back to Ohio, he was a new man. He was hardworking. Super religious now.

He'd upgraded. Oh my God. Okay. He went from religious to super religious. All right. Seemed like he was already there, but okay. Yeah. But he's also very confident.

Hmm. Unlike those non-threatening boys. Brown said that he habitually expected to succeed in his undertakings. Wow. He also prided himself in being a leader. His younger brother said that John was a king against whom there is no rising up. So kind of a tyrant? I guess so.

Okay. But this confidence, it would serve him later in life. Foreshadowing. Thank you. Around the age of 20, John Brown got a Facebook message asking if he ever wanted to be his own boss. And did he want to be his own boss? Of course. Work his own hours.

You know. What else do they say in those messages? Well, first of all. They just say you want to be your own boss. Have you ever received one of these messages or is it reserved for women? No, he got one. Okay. For women, it's a lot of them.

always starts out, hey girlie. Mm-hmm. I guess for mine was like, hey, dude. Yeah. Oh, God. Anyway, all kidding aside, Brown didn't actually get a Facebook message. Wow. He did want to...

We're all about accuracy here on an old-timey podcast. Absolutely. Sniff my butthole. Kristen, stop. Shut up. Please stop saying that. Brown wanted to be his own man. And so if you can believe this,

badass move, Kristen. Okay. He opened up his own tannery in the same town as his dad. Well, that's rude. Because he didn't want to work for his dad. Oh. How big was this town? This town wasn't big enough for two tanneries?

I don't think so. Wow. But, hey, I respect the hell out of it. John's got his own thing. That's why I love him. Mr. Independent. Won't you come and spend it? And he would say,

Because that would be a sin. Yeah. Come on, John. Let's just lay down together. You tell me all about your tannery. Are you kind of attracted to John Brown? Well, yeah. Yeah, you're drawn to him.

Absolutely. Yes. Well, I wasn't the only one drawn to John Brown. Oh. Because soon he started talking with the ladies. Multiple ladies? Just one. Okay.

When he was 20, he was. He met a woman named Dianthe Lusk. Don't worry, she was 19. So calm down, Kristen. I know the first thought in your head is, how old is this woman? No, I was thinking about Dianthi Lusk. Dianthi Lusk. But I've already laughed at someone else's name, and I shan't do it again.

Because I'm guessing this woman dies in childbirth or whatever. John was in love with Dianthi Lusk, but more like Dianthi Lust. Ooh. Ooh. Dianthe was John's housekeeper's daughter. Oh, okay. But John wasn't exactly a romantic man. He described Dianthe as remarkably plain.

But he did say she had excellent character and good practical common sense. That sucks. She's ugly as sin, but boys, she's sweet on the instance. Listen, if any of you history hos out there are on the apps, Tinder, Bumble, you know, plenty of fish. Do people see he's plenty of fish? I don't know. I'm married to my lover slash husband. I think if you open up a chat with somebody, you start off with, you seem like you have good practical common sense.

Yeah. And you also look remarkably plain. Yeah, I can see from your profile pick that you are remarkably plain. What was the other compliment he gave? Excellent character. Excellent character. That's actually a good compliment. Well, yeah, no.

The stuff about her internal beauty. Next time we're making out, I'm going to whisper in your ear, you have good practical common sense. Careful. I'm about to bust. You're too much of a non-threatening boy. You're right. To shout those fighting words.

Yeah, I would say, well, can we kiss now? Ew, stop. Within the first four years of marriage, John and I, Anthony had three kids. John Jr., Jason, and Owen. Jason? Jason. It seems kind of modern.

I think Jason is an old name. Isn't it? I think Jason and the Argonauts, isn't that, isn't that like a biblical tale? I'm not familiar. I don't know. Don't ask me these questions. I'm sorry. Okay, okay.

Just like his father and grandfather, John Brown would go on to have a lot of kids. We're just getting started, Kristen. Okay. I'm freaked out by how often you're calling me Kristen, by the way. Why? Well, you don't call me Kristen in real life. But yeah. I have to let the people know who I'm talking to.

Right. They're going to get so confused. Yeah. They're going to be like, does he think he's talking to that dreamy John Brown or his remarkably plain wife, Dianthe? Oh, Dianthee. At the age of 24, John Brown's life was going pretty well. He had a wife, he had three kids, successful businessman. He was a very strict boss.

He preached most of the day to his workers. Oh, my God. Reading sermons and Bible passages and whatnot. He also required them to attend church. One time he caught a man trying to steal a calf skin, and he yelled at him nonstop until he cried. And then he demanded all of his coworkers not speak to him. For how long? I don't know, but the guy eventually quit.

I mean, the guy was humiliated. Yeah, no, that would be. Yeah. But, you know, John was also in touch with his emotional feelings, particularly for Dianthee. Mm. And she was having emotional trouble, which I can only assume was postpartum depression. Yeah. You mean postpartum depression.

Depression. Yeah, we sing it on this podcast. Yes. Because then it's not real. Well, first of all, it's not real at all. Oh, right. It's all in our heads, Kristen. All you have to do is sing the word depression.

And your depression goes away. It's incredible how that works. Man, I wish you would have told me that sooner. Yeah. I've been depressed for two years now. Well, John thought maybe a change of scenery would be good for Dianthee. Okay. And so the Browns' mood.

moved to northwestern Pennsylvania, a little town called New Richmond. John purchased 25 acres of land, and he built a two-room log house, and he also built a barn that contained a secret room for hiding runaway enslaved people. Whoa. That's awesome. Tell me, he practiced what he preached. Yeah. And in New Richmond, John, once again, opened a tannery.

It was very successful, and, in fact, the Tannery Stone Foundation is still. there today in New Richmond. It's on the National Register of Historic Places, and there's a nice little plaque there. Love me some plaques, Kristen. You do. John Brown also raised animals, and he got very, very good raising sheep.

Became a very skilled shepherd. Okay. Yeah. How do you... How do you what? I don't know. Like, how do you get really good at that? Oh, you don't want to know.

Shut up. Don't make it weird. I'm about to bust. Norman. You're telling me that John Brown busted in his sheep. I'm not saying he did that. But do we have any evidence he did not do that? That's the real question.

Right. Thank you, Norm. Okay. So, yeah, John Brown became a very skilled shepherd. He was known around the region as, like, Number one, Shepard. If he was on Angie's list and you were looking for Shepard, John Brown's popping up. No one has talked about Angie's list since...

I'm talking about... I'm bringing it back, all right? So brave of you. John Brown was also quite the character. He constantly distributed religious papers to his neighbors and tried to get them to go to church with him. Did they want to go to church with him? I don't know. Probably not.

Probably not if you had to keep bringing those papers around. those papers. He hated people that always agreed with him. He'd rather talk with someone who had their own ideas and stood by those ideas. Okay. Which I respect that. Yeah. You don't want a yes man. I'm guessing, though, that he was the type of guy who people would just agree with to try to shut him up, right? So maybe that's what he didn't like. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're trying to get rid of me, huh? Excuse me. I'm burping a lot. This Coke Zero is... Oh my God. Patty bleep that. So, yeah, John was quite the character.

One time he was walking home and he saw his neighbor drinking whiskey. And Brown came over and the neighbor offered him a sip. So Brown took a few sips from the jug and then he smashed it on the ground. Declaring that alcohol had, quote, dangerous powers. He took some of this man's drink. Which like how many pleasures did people even have back then? This guy is enjoying a cocktail. Alcohol was very popular.

And John Brown took two sips and destroyed it. In destroyed his joke. Yeah. You know, it's funny, the first time I got drunk, I also said alcohol has dangerous. So John Brown and I are alike in a lot of ways. Would you like to tell the story of when you first sipped alcohol? Yeah. I was 18, I think.

And I worked at a restaurant and I gave a co-worker a ride home and I asked if he would buy me some alcohol. And so he went into 7-Eleven and bought me sparks, a four-pack of sparks, which was basically an energy drink with malt liquor. It was like, it was sold for like 12 seconds, right? Yeah, it was banned. Yeah. And I went home and I drank two of them and I blacked out in my bathroom. And I woke up and said, whew, this stuff has dangerous powers.

And then you went door to door and took everyone else's alcohol and destroyed it. That's right. That's the way to do it. Yeah. Sparks. Oof. It's like four loco, you know? I never had four loco.

Four loco was banned too or they had to change the formula. Yeah. What did it taste like? Sparks? Yeah. It's like an orange red bull. Disgusting. It was bad.

I can't believe that was the first thing I got drunk off of. Terrible thing to get drunk off of for the first time. Yeah, I don't know that there's anything that would be good. White wine spritzers is a good drink to get drunk off of it for your saying. You'd have to drink 20 of them, but you'd get drunk eventually. Okay. Great. For anyone listening out there, we recommend you start with white wine spritzers.

Norm's advice. But you don't drink now. I don't. I don't drink anymore. So maybe... Because it has dangerous powers. Yeah. John Brown told you and you were like,

I've seen that man in Threatening Boys Magazine. I'm going to do whatever the hell he says. Whatever John Brown wants, I'll do it. Okay. John Brown was also very tough on his children. They were required to keep a log of their sins along with the punishment. Oh, my God. For example, John Jr. earned eight lashes for disobeying mother and three lashes for

unfaithfulness at work. What's that mean? I don't really know. Okay. Like starting a rival tannery? I don't know what he meant by unfaithfulness or I guess just like slacking off because he's not being faithful to working. Or being a hoe at work. Yeah.

As the history hoes know. They can't help it. He was photocopying his butt. His bare butt and balls. Okay. Yes. John Brown also considered hunting. hunting and fishing wicked because it apparently promoted laziness.

Well. But, you know, that sensitive side did come out. His children remembered that their father was very sweet. The sang to them at bedtime. He read them stories from the Bible and Aesop's fables. And soon the Brown family had three more children. Ruth, a daughter. Frederick, a son.

And sadly, an unnamed son who died in only three days. Crab legs. Stop laughing, Kristen. It's not funny. It's not funny. I am being a bit of a turd. Yes. I will accept three lashings.

Well, that's six kids in nine years for Dianthe. That sounds terrible. This caused a great deal of stress on her body. She developed heart problems. She constantly had fever. A year after their infant died, Dianthi gave birth to a seventh child, another boy who was still born.

Yeah. And after that, it became too much for Dianthe, and three days later, she died at the age of 31. On August 10th, 1832, she died at the age of 31. Birth control. This is why we need it. Her final words were Farewell Earth, which is inscribed on her tombstone.

And her tombstone and several of her children's tombstones are still around today, but they're on private property. It's where John Brown had his farm in New Richmond. And that's not a museum or anything? No. But apparently I went to this website, you can call the people that live there and they'll let you look at tombstones. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, they have their number listed and everything. That's very nice.

John buried them at the highest point on his land. Very nice spot. and he took the losses very hard. Yeah. Both his children and his wife. He told a friend he felt dead inside. He was raising five children by himself. But soon he found love again.

How soon? He had hired a housekeeper to help tend to the home while he worked at the tannery. And he began a courtship. Uh-huh. With the housekeeper's 16-year-old sister, Mary Day. Ew. How old is he? 32. Disgusting. All right.

And he, what's the problem? She's a child. He's a grown-ass man. And 32 back in these days was like 62 today. Kristen, when you get your issue of Threatening Boys magazine and you see John, he might change your mind. He'd say he's too good-looking. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Who cares about the age gap? It would be his job to then say to me as a 16-year-old, like, hey, go play with the other kids. Mm-hmm.

So, yeah, Mary was half of John Brown's age, only four years older than John Jr. Oh, love that. So in July of 1833, less than a year after Dianthi's death, John Brown and Mary Day were married. Mary Day married. That is cute. That's fun. John Brown didn't really have much of a ho phase. No, he had a pedophile phase

Because he went for a 16 year old Oh, right Mary would go on to have 13 children Oh my God In addition to raising the five That John already had I'm about to bust

Okay Can we have a limit on how many times We hear Hank Hill Say he's about to bust Let's get a bust counter Going in the corner of the screen You know All these kids that these browns were having

You ever see those new genics commercials with Frank White? No. So he was a baseball player. Yeah. And Nugentics is like a testosterone booster. Oh, yeah.

And these like hot women are in a gym and they see Frank White working out. And they're like, oh my God, you're Frank White. You look great. And he's like, it's all thanks to Nugetics. And then he looks at the camera and goes, and she'll love it too. And the women go, oh. I'm about to bust. Okay.

You never seen those? I guess not. Did they think about how close that is to the word eugenics? They didn't care, Kristen. Huh. Does new genics work? Does it make more of a man? No, you can't increase your testosterone by taking a pill.

You can't? No, I think you have to get a shot. Oh, okay. You have to go to an actual doctor. Are you saying that Frank White, MD, is full of shit? I think he may have been paid. He's a paid actor But anyway

But those women were turned on by him, right? Absolutely Yes, okay But they'd be even more turned on If John Brown was promoting Nugentics Well, they probably would Those thin lips Could show his 18 children

And say, this only happened Because of Nugetics Well, yeah, I mean And you're going to hell And you're going to burn But also I can put A baby in you And he didn't want to see that

Yeah At this point, I'm going to stop mentioning every time John Brown has a kid because he has a lot of children. It's a lot of names to keep track of. But I will tell you the important ones. Will you tell us the funny ones? Yeah. Well, next time salmon comes up. Okay.

I'll let you know. And it will come up because they swim upstream. Oh, shit. That sucked. It really sucks to tell a joke that you know is dumb and then have a sound effect just to confirm it. So now it's the 1830. and during this time the abolitionist movement is really picking up steam. If people are not familiar with this term, an abolitionist is someone who believes in abolishing slavery.

Simple as that. The Nat Turner Slave Rebellion in 1831 inspired many people in the North to take up the goal of ending slavery, which, by the way, is a great future topic for an episode. You going to do it? The Nat Turner Slave Rebellion? Yeah. I think I will. I grew up not far from where that happened. Really?

Where did it happen? Just like a little bit north of Virginia Beach. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay. There's a little sign on the side of the highway. A plaque. A plaque, yeah.

Uh-huh. Highway signs are basically plaques, right? Basically, yeah. Yeah, there's a little sign that was like two miles. from here is where Nat Turner. We should go next time we visit. Okay, well, anyway, this is not the point of this podcast. One prominent abolitionist was William Lloyd Garrison.

He ran a newspaper called The Liberator. Good name. And John Brown and his dad, they loved The Liberator. They subscribed to it. Hell yeah. They liked, they commented, they subscribed to the Liberator. And this was not like half-assed abolitionism. you know, William Lloyd Garrison was all in.

Okay. Because a lot of abolitionists were like, yeah, slavery is bad, but I also don't think black people are equal to white people. So they were against slavery, but they were for racism. Huh. Okay. Well, the Liberator argued for full emancipation and full rights for black people. Oh, okay. Which was radical at the time.

Yes, yes. Okay, I'm with you now. I was, yeah. John Brown did disagree with William Lloyd Garrison on how to go about achieving emancipation, though. Okay. Garrison was a pacifist, so he believed slavery could end peacefully. A non-threatening boy. Non-threatening boy.

Right next to you in the magazine. Exactly. Yeah, you're right. John Brown was more about divine retribution. He thought violence was perfectly fine in the eyes of God if it killed the sinners. What do you think? Okay. I will start this with I am not a violent person.

And I don't like violence. Yep. But. Yeah, when you went to that UFC practice session, you ran out of there. I shat the bed. No, but I think America is a very violent. country. We have a rich history of violence. Really? Yes. But I think when it comes to black people in black history, we want to take, you know, oh, oh, peaceful protests only, peace only, thank you very

much. And I don't see why we would need to end slavery in a nonviolent way. I would think, how do we end it the fastest? Would you get violent to end slavery? I think I'm a big weenie. I think I would... You know what? I'd be like this William Lloyd Garrison guy. I'd write a bunch of stuff.

Little weeny girls magazine. Weenie girls with big opinions. That's right. No, I mean, of course I would love to think that I'd do the right thing, but I don't know. Interesting. That sounded kind of judging, Norm. What would you do? I'd like to continue my story now.

Oh, okay. The Liberator did inspire John Brown, though. He talked to his neighbors again. Sorry about that whiskey. About abolitionism. And he suggested that his neighbors should also take in runaway enslaved people. He also wanted to open a school for black people in New Richmond. Hold on.

Did the neighbors agree? It didn't say. Not sure. Okay. I guarantee you they didn't. I just feel like they were like, oh, there's John Brown again. What he's going to say this time? He's the bitch who broke my whiskey bottle.

He smashed my whiskey. Yeah. God damn him. Okay. Anyway, so, yes, starting a school to... He wanted to start a school for black people in his town. But these were all kind of pipe dreams because his business is, weren't doing very well.

He had taken out loans and didn't pay him back. I thought he ran a really good tannery and was like the best sheep fucker. Economy was up and down. His tannery business wasn't doing well. And, you know, when you take out a loan because you're low on money but you don't pay back the loan, it becomes a slippery slope, it spirals out of control. Gotcha. So in 1835, John Brown and his family moved back to Ohio.

And back in Ohio, he seemed to turn his fortunes around, kind of got back on his feet. Mm-hmm. But then he did something kind of stupid. What did he do? He started speculating on land, which could make you very rich if you're smart about it. I don't even know what this means. So basically you buy land. Okay.

Because you're speculating that it will become much more valuable. Sounds a little gambly. It does, doesn't it? Mr. Sinner. Okay. Yeah. So he borrowed a bunch of money to purchase land along a proposed canal route. Because he thought, oh, if the canal is going to come through here.

Sure. People are going to want to buy this land. Yeah. Well, the canal company, they changed their plans. They said, we're actually not going to come through here anymore. John Brown, instead of just selling, he held on to all the land, refused to sell. Why? He just, he couldn't take the idea.

Yeah, he couldn't take, he was so confident in himself that things would work out. His ego didn't allow him to just cut his losses. Yeah. You know? Well, it basically became worthless. land because in 1837, the U.S. experienced their first economic depression, the panic of 1837. I'm sorry, you meant to sing that, didn't you? In 1837, the United States experienced their first economic depression.

Very good, Norm. The panic of 1837, and it escalated John Brown's debt even further. So, John Brown's not a very good businessman, okay? Okay. But he's a very good abolitionist. Yeah. And something else happened in 1837 that really sparked a fire in him. There was an abolitionist named Elijah Lovejoy in Alton.

He lived in Alton, Illinois, and he printed a newspaper called the Alton Observer, who was an abolitionist newspaper. Yeah. Alton was right by the Mississippi River in Illinois. Well, right across that river is the great state of Missouri. Oh, boy. Slavery was legal in Missouri. Yep. And a bunch of folks in Missouri said, you know what?

I don't like this Mr. Lovejoy, and I don't like his stupid newspaper. And so a Missouri mob crossed the Mississippi River. They went to Alton, Illinois. They killed Elijah Lovejoy. Oh. And they burned the building that his newspaper was printed out of. Wow. So this sent shockwaves through the north, especially in the abolitionist community.

Yeah. Obviously. John Brown and his father were appalled by what happened, and a church service was held in Hudson, Ohio, to protest the killing of Elijah Lovejoy. And John Brown and his father both attended. And apparently, according to witnesses, after the service ended, in the back of the church, John Brown stood up, raised his right hand, and said, Here before God, in the presence of these witnesses, from this time, I consecrate my life to the destruction of slavery. Damn. John was becoming more and more militant.

Yeah. About his abolitionism. And again, he didn't just talk the talk. He walked do walk. One time he went to church and he invited a black family to sit with him in the front pews. The church reprimanded him for it. And so he left the church. Never went back.

Wow. His father, Owen, became an early supporter of Oberlin College. Oh, shit. Oberlin College accepted both black students and women, which was very radical at the time. Mm-hmm. Those Quakers. They're radical. Those damn Quakers.

They're nothing but trouble. Norman, I don't know if you realize this, but our brother-in-law, Jay. And look at all the trouble he gets in. So much trouble. So much. Those quakes. Yeah. He's always causing a ruckus.

I feel like we shouldn't talk about Oberlin. Why? Because my darling sister, Kyla, she met Jay at Erlem College, which is another Quaker school. And I'm just saying, I feel like Erlum has a bit of a chip on its shoulder about it. Oprah Lynn because Oberlin was like, you know, the first, blah, blah, blah. Are they rival schools? I don't, well, maybe in the way that Simmons and Harvard are rival schools. You know what I'm saying?

Right. That's so rude of me. Simmons, notable rival of Harvard. Yeah, yeah. Right. Not Yale. Harvard was my backup school. Yeah, mine too.

Uh-huh. At his home, John Brown gathered his family around the fire, and he asked his children, who would join him to, quote, break the jaws of the wicked. So now he's recruiting his kids and his militant. Well, might as well. He's given birth to an army. Well, he didn't give birth. He's making an army.

That's right. I'm about to bust. Okay. God damn. That's the bus counter up to now. Feels like 50. But in the meantime. Hold on. Say that again.

Break the jaws. Break the jaws of the wicked. Now that I would put on a bumper sticker. Who's going to disagree with me? The wicked people. Don't we all have a little wickedness inside of us? Not me. I'm in non-threatening boys' magazine.

Not if you got that bumper sticker. That's true. I probably couldn't buy that bumper sticker. No, they'd probably be like, are you going to put this on a Prius son? We're not going to sell this to you. They'll just look at me and not sell it to me. Your chin isn't nearly defined enough. That's right.

I can't set my watch to that chin. No. Well, in the meantime, John Brown was still making terrible business decisions, Kristen. He had a tendency to get money for a specific purpose, but then spend that money on something else. What? So, for example, he received $2,800 from a New England businessman to help him purchase wool for his textile company. Okay. I'm sorry.

I forgot to adjust for inflation on this. Wow. How terrible. I did it for other stuff, but not this one. You had time to load Hank Hill saying I'm about to bust. You had time to load me saying sniff my butthole, which I don't know how hard you had to work to find that clip. Oh, I didn't have to work hard at all. You have it bookmarked?

As the little butt boy of Let's Go to Court, I was in charge of your archived audio. So I knew where everything was. Did you have a plaque? I know all the secrets. Okay. Including that lost episode that people want to hear. Oh, my gosh. $2,800 during this time would be like getting $110,000 today.

And he just talked some businessman into giving him that money? He sure did. Wow. Because he was a skilled shepherd, knew about wool. And so, yeah, this guy was like, yeah, help me help me, help me, buy some high quality wool for my textile company. Okay. But Brown did not buy wool with that money.

What did he do? He paid off debts. Oh, okay, that's less exciting than I was hoping. And the businessman from New England wrote him a letter and was like, hey, haven't heard from you in a while. How's that wool coming along? And John Brown was like, sure could use some wool. Come and get it, buddy.

You're in New England. John Brown's religious, righteous ways would not allow him to lie. So. But he did lie. He took that money from that man and spent it in a dishonest way. Well, John Brown replied to the guy and he admitted, I did not buy wool with your money. Yeah. And so John Brown started getting sued, not just from this guy, but other people too.

Oh. So lawsuits began to pile up. And this whole time, he kept having kids with Mary. Well, sure. Why would that stop? Well, the situation turned extreme in 1841. Brown had lost the title to his land because of all these debts. And the sheriff showed up to kick him off the land, and he refused to leave.

He and his two sons grabbed muskets, and they held up inside their cabin. Wow. And there was a standoff. But after a few days, Brown and his son surrendered to the sheriff, and they were arrested and jailed for a short time. The next year in 1842, an Ohio court finally declared John Brown bankrupt. Right. They confiscated all of his land and assets, but they did leave him and his family with a few possessions. And I'd like to read to you a few of the possessions he was able to keep.

Okay. Two broken earthen crocs. And not like crox the shoe. Thank you. But like the storage, earthen crocs. But they're broken. They are broken. And they wanted to keep this?

Well, the court could have taken everything. Could have taken their broken shit? Yeah, but they let them keep that. Okay. Three bags. Bags of what? I didn't say. Just three bags.

20 pounds of lard. Okay. 11 Bibles. All right. Eight aprons. Uh-huh. And a tin pail valued at six. sense. That's grim. Very grim. Do you think John Brown would think crocs had dangerous powers?

Modern day crocs? Yeah. If he saw, if he saw Kyla wearing those rainbow crocs, would he say, Devil Woman? Everyone, I have to tell you something. This past weekend, we went to an event for Kyla's work. Kyla works at a nonprofit. And Kyla and I wanted a picture together. So we asked Norman to take the photo. And Kyla had changed out of her high heels into rainbow crocks, which is a choice. But she specifically said to Norman, when you take this photo, do not include my crocs. And I specifically said to Norm, when you take this photo,

make sure that my shapewear isn't popping out of the top of my skirt. I ignored both orders. The picture includes both the crocs and the shapewear. We're having it framed. All right, continue. Patreon bonus will post the photo. I'm promising a lot. You are promising a lot.

John Brown basically had to start his life over now after the bankruptcy. He had damaged his reputation as a businessman, and he fell into a depression. Depression! He would sign off letters with unworthily yours. Oh. Yeah, he was depressed. He referred to his wife as The share of my poverty,

trials, discredit, and sore afflictions. Good grief. John Brown was basically emo. Yeah. I actually read a few letters that John Brown had written during this time.

And I think a really fun game we could play with maybe the history hose. Okay. I would read a sentence and you would have to guess, is this something John Brown wrote or is this a lyric from a Jimmy Eat World song? I love that. I love it. Yeah. That's a brilliant game you've come up with. Yes.

I agree. What would the prize be? The first copy of Threatening Boys magazine? Ooh, yeah, a poster. Uh-huh. So they can smooch it every night before they go to bed. Yeah. Oh, John.

Oh, your chiseled chin. John Brown moved his family to a tiny cramped cabin because it was all they could afford. Well, a year after the bankruptcy, something even worse happened. What? In September of 1843, dysentery spread through his family. and being in a tiny cramped cabin did not help. Pretty much everybody in his family got dysentery. That's miserable.

Within four days, John Brown lost four children. Oh. Charles, a six-year-old. Peter, a two-year-old. Austin, a one-year-old, and Sarah a nine-year-old. That's horrible. John Brown, sick with dysentery. buried his four children in a single grave.

Yeah. Holy shit. That's rough. That's horrible. Four days. Lose four kids. And John Brown said he felt a steady, strong desire to die. I'm sure he did.

But there was one thing that kept him going. The destruction of slavery. I'm sorry, I thought you were going to say his other kids. Nope. He wrote, it was slavery. Okay. That kept him going. Okay, that was his, yeah.

He wrote, certainly the cause is enough to live for. And he wrote letters to abolitionist politicians with admiration. And he continued to protect and escort enslaved people to freedom. How many people? It's estimated John Brown rescued 1,500, long away enslaved. people in his lifetime. Well, didn't rescue, right, helped them along the Underground Railroad because he didn't go down south. Oh, well, okay, okay. Calm down, history, ho. Is that what you're saying? Calm down, history, ho. He did rescue. Wow. He did. And we'll get to that

in the next part. But one route of the Underground Railroad went through Ohio, up through Michigan, and then crossed into Canada. Okay. And John Brown did escort people. on that route frequently. Yeah, gotcha. So, but he also took enslaved people from their plantation and took them to Canada, which, spoiler alert. I have to wait until Part 2, Electric Booboo for that. It's a great story. Okay.

But, yeah, next time. In 1847, John Brown had found a new business venture. Okay. He partnered up with a wealthy Akron businessman, and their business was they raised sheep and they sold the wool. He's a good shepherd. He's a great shepherd. And so the business did very well in the beginning. But then once again, Brown's confidence got the best of them.

He decided that textile manufacturers were ripping off wool producers. Okay. Which was actually true. These textile companies would pay practically nothing for the wool. So he convinced his business partner that they should set up an office in Springfield, Massachusetts, because that's where a lot of the textile businesses were. And he said, we could act as middlemen between the wool producers and the textile companies, and we could sell the wool for a fair price,

and then we would collect a commission on every sale. Okay. The problem was wool prices were not steady. They were never steady. And so Brown, who was stubborn as hell, he just never adjusted his prices to the market. So he was able to get other wool producers to work with him. Yes.

Okay. And he said, I can get you more money if you're, work with me. And of course they said, sure. And they were like, yeah, absolutely. Okay. And John was just like, yeah, I just collect a little commission from the sale, but you're going to get more money.

Yeah. But again, yeah, wool prices were not steady. And so Brown, being the stubborn guy is, refused to adjust his prices to the market, and his warehouse just filled with wool, tons and tons of wool. And he just refused to sell it at a low price. Yeah. It's the same as the land speculating thing. Like he can't cut his losses.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is another tough business venture for John Brown. But he was very excited to be living in Springfield, Massachusetts. He took his whole family there. Springfield was filled with not only abolitionists, but free black people. And so John Brown was super excited because he got to attend anti-slavery meetings.

He really made a name for him. himself in the abolitionist community. Well, yeah. This is the guy who wants to rip off jaws. Yeah. So he's what we would call a real one. Mm-hmm. In November of 1847, John Brown met another abolitionist named Frederick Douglass.

Oh, shit. Familiar? Well, yeah, like the most famous. Frederick Douglass was an ex-slave. He was a writer. He was one of the most famous abolition. and speakers in the country. Probably the most famous black man at that time, right?

Probably. Okay. Yeah. John Brown met him and invited him over for dinner. And Frederick Douglass accepted, which blows my mind, honestly. Why? Well, it's just, you know, John Brown, yeah, he was kind of known in the community. Mm-hmm.

But, you know, Frederick Douglas would nationally recognize. Huge, huge. He's not a celebrity, but very famous. It would be like, in my head, I pictured me at like Price Chopper, the grocery store. And I see AOC shopping. And I just go up to her and say, hey, I'm a big fan. You want to come over for dinner? And she's like, okay.

What would you prepare for AOC? Costco lasagna. Ooh, yeah. Everyone loves that Costco lasagna. The whole interaction gives me, like, when Lincoln was president vibes. Because it's just like he went up to Frederick Douglass and was like, come over for dinner. Douglas was like, okay. Frederick Douglass was very impressed by John Brown, not only for his militant views on abolitionism, but for the way he lived.

He said John Brown's house was extremely humble. Yeah. And the majority of abolitionists in New England were usually, they're usually wealthy. And so he was kind of taken aback by how simple and humble John Brown's house was. Yeah, okay. Well, during this dinner, John Brown revealed to Frederick Douglass his divine plan to end slavery. He showed Frederick Douglass a map of the Allegheny Mountains. And these mountains ran into Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, and parts of what is now West Virginia.

West Virginia was not a state yet. So everybody calm down. Calm down for you West Virginia history hose. Still Virginia right now. and these mountains were part of the Appalachian Mountains and ran all the way down south. Big mountain range. John Brown was very familiar with these mountains

because he lived in Ohio, Pennsylvania. Yeah. You know, the old wilderness thing. And so John Brown said he wanted to set up a guerrilla army in these mountains. And basically they would conduct raids into the plantations that were down in the valley. And they would take enslaved people

and bring them back into the mountains and arm them. Holy shit. And Brown wanted to make slavery untenable in the area. Yeah. And he hoped it would bring national attention to the slavery question. The slavery question. The peculiar institution, Kristen. Such a weird way of putting it.

Can you imagine? It's a bold plan. That's an incredible plan. It would scare the hell out of people. Yeah, it would. Yeah. And that was his goal. They should be afraid.

This is not the weenie girl. I was talking to her earlier. They're full of fire. Somebody thinks they can own people. Yeah. They should be afraid. Yeah. And oh shit, John Brown and salmon and trout and whoever else he's got in his guerrilla war gang.

Dr. Shrimp Scampy. They come running down the mountainside. They have weapons for enslaved black people. And, I mean, this feels like it'd be a great movie. The two of them stayed up till 3 a.m. talking about this plan. Yeah. John Brown wanted Frederick Douglass's support. Oh.

He wanted him to help. Like, come along. Be part of the group. Wow. Come along, fight with him. He was a prominent abolitionist with very strong connections. If Watch Mojo made a video on top 10 abolitionists, Frederick Douglass might be number one. He'd be up there.

And, you know, I think Watch Mojo has that in the works. But was Frederick Douglass? Was he nonviolent? I mean, he just, he wasn't this extreme, right? Yeah, so Frederick Douglass, he was not ready to back this idea. Right. He was similar to William Lloyd Garrison. He thought slavery could still end peacefully.

So John Brown disagreed with Frederick Douglas and told him enslavers would never be induced to give up their slaves until they felt a big stick about their heads. That's what he said. What do you think of that? He was right. And obviously that's what has. happened. We had a whole damn war about it. What? Foreshadowing. People don't know about the civil war. That's what we in the business call foreshadowing, Kristen.

What business is this exactly? The business of content creation. You ever heard of it? I've got a garage full of wool. That's the business I'm in. And I will not sell. It stinks. This wool smells terrible. At this point, John Brown's plan seemed more like a fantasy than a reality. Sure. Frederick Douglass was like, yeah, it's cool, man. It's a cool plan.

I'm really, I think you for sharing it with me, you know. Like polite? Right. Okay. But Frederick Douglass did come away impressed by John Brown. Yeah. Unlike other abolitionists who were at times prejudice and condescending toward black people, John Brown was not like that at all.

Another man, an author named Richard Henry Dana, he later recalled having a dinner with John Brown. And John Brown invited a black family over for dinner. And Richard Dana remarked how Brown, quote, called them by their surnames with the prefixes of Mr. and Mrs. It was plain that they had not been so treated or spoken too often before. Wow. The most impressive thing that Frederick Douglass took away from this meeting was the fact that John Brown wanted to arm the enslaved people. Yeah. This act alone made John Brown stand out because most abolitionists believed black people were too submissive and pitiful to fight.

Really? Yeah. Huh. John Brown disagreed. And he believed it was paramount that black people take part in their liberation. Okay. Huh. I guess I was expecting this to go a different way where, like, the white abolitionists who are maybe the wealthy folks who are like, oh, we don't like slavery, but yes, too, a dollop of racism or whatever.

Just a dollop, yep. I would have thought that they would be more afraid of what would happen. if black people are armed. But you're saying they weren't afraid? I'm sure that was a thing. Okay. But yeah, a big part of it was it was they thought black people weren't strong enough to stand up for themselves. Too pitiful to fight is what they said.

Wow. Strong enough to support the entire economy. Right. But okay. Yeah. Frederick Douglass would later write, Though Brown is a white gentleman, he is in sympathy, a black man,

and is deeply interested in our cause as though his own soul had been pierced with the iron of slavery. Pretty powerful words. Yeah. Coming from Frederick Douglas, you know? Yeah. We can safely assume that John Brown

would have been invited to the cookout. Okay. Or the barbecue or what have you. Yeah. In 1848, John Brown met with another prominent abolitionist named Garrett Smith. Never heard of her. Garrett Smith was extremely wealthy. His family had been living in the area for like 200 years.

They owned thousands and thousands of acres of land across the United States. Okay. And Brown had actually known Smith from a few years before because Garrett Smith had. donated land to Oberlin College. And John Brown was hired to survey the land. Yeah. If he'd known about Erlem, he would have donated it to Erlem. He said, oh, sorry, Erlem, already donated that land.

Garrett Smith also founded the Liberty Party. The Liberty Party, their whole platform, was ending slavery in women's suffrage. Wow. In 1848. Wouldn't that have been amazing if that had taken off? Garrett Smith ran for president as the Liberty Party nominee. Would you like to guess the percent of the vote he got? 3 percent.

0.1. Poor Garrett Smith. Well, and poor everyone, because think about, like, women could have gotten the vote. Black people could have been treated as people. This was not a popular idea at the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when only white men are voting, I guess that'll...

Exactly. Do it. So since Garrett Smith wasn't going to be president, he had a new idea. You know, he was an abolitionist. He had a ton of land. Mm-hmm. So he gave away 120,000 acres of land in upstate New York to free black people. Oh.

Cool. Yep. And so by owning property, any black men... that got this property, they were allowed to vote. It was legal in New York. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. Gave them the ability to vote.

The problem was the land that Garrett Smith gave away was terrible land. And it was very hard to sustain a workable farm. This is when I'm a bitch. What would you like to say, Kristen? Okay, well, first of all, obviously, good, good, good. He's doing way more good than the vast majority of people. people. Yes.

But you couldn't have given away better land? Hell no. Oh. That's what Garrett Smith would say. Okay. Not me. Yeah, that is an unfortunate part of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, John Brown heard about these struggles that these free black people were experiencing with this land. And he met with Garrett Smith, and he gave him a proposal. John Brown said, let me move my family to this area. And I will teach these free black people how to work the land. I've been doing it my whole life. I'll teach them how to farm. I'll teach them how to raise cattle and sheep.

You know, let me be a mentor, basically. Okay, because presumably the freed black people had been farming down south. So it's totally different conditions. So, yeah, there would be a learning curve. Right. All right. Right. And so Garrett Smith said,

Okay. And he sold John Brown 244 acres of land at a dollar an acre. Is that a good deal? Adjusted for inflation, John Brown got 244 acres for $9,500. All right. That's an excellent deal. The land was in a little town called North Elba near Lake Placid. And fun fact, John Brown's farmhouse is still there today.

Oh shit. It's a national historic landmark. Okay. Yep. We should go. I'd love to. So John Brown moved his family to North Elba, but he still had to deal with his warehouse full of wool in Springfield, Massachusetts. He still has that?

His warehouse full of stinky, smelly wool. John. And again, Brown, stubborn and confident as ever, refused to sell his wool. And he said, what's he going to do with it? He said, you know what? If no one around here is going to buy it, I'm going to take it to England. And they'll buy my wool because they know good wool over in England. Okay.

Do they know good wool? So he went to England. They've got sheep over there? No one wanted his wool. Yeah. So he faced serious debt and bankruptcy again. Meanwhile, Mary Brown. Oh, yeah.

I forgot about her. Yeah. She was on her own. with the kids. And she was splitting time between Ohio and North Elba, New York. Their farmhouse was being built. They were renting a cabin in the meantime. But she still had family in Ohio, so she was just going back and forth. And she was just always pregnant. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Since they had buried four of their children from that dysentery outbreak, Mary had given birth to three more children. Sadly, two of them died as infants. Mm-hmm. And she was in a bad state. One person described Mary as an invalid. What does that mean? I think it's like an old-timey term for like a worthless person basically.

Oh, okay. Let me double check. I was going to say that's really hard. No one says that anymore. No. A person made weak or disabled by illness or injury. Oh. It's definitely an old-timey term.

Yeah, yeah. Well, John Brown Jr., who was now full-ass adult, grown-ass adult He helped get Mary Brown into a water cure infirmary To deal with her nervous disorder Depression A depression A water cure infirmary

It provided Mary with plunges Dushes Trenches And spray baths We'll doosh the depression right out of you? It was, yeah, it was like a resort spa. No, it wasn't. It definitely was, Kristen.

No, it was not a resort or a spa. This sounds like hell. We dunk you in water. Their tagline is, we cover every hole guaranteed. Norman. What? Like spray down every hole. Mm-hmm.

How long was she in this place? It doesn't say, but. This is terrible. You wouldn't go to the water cure infirmary? Well, first of all, it doesn't sound like you go there. It sounds like a man in your life sees you being depressed. Admits you. And pushes you in there.

And the next thing you know, you got, you know, a douche up your cooter. It seemed to help. What do you mean it seems to? Hey, what about these, like, cold plunges people are doing these days? I think that sounds nuts. I'm not cold plunging. Yeah. I'm hot tubbing.

Hot tubbing. Because that's the life I live. Right. Okay. You said it seemed to help in what way? Mary Brown returned to her family and she gave birth again. Oh, my God. To another son, but the son died after three weeks.

Oh, my God. And then finally at the age of 38, Mary Brown gave birth a 13th and final time. She had a daughter named Ellen, and Ellen did survive to adulthood. Okay. And it was all thanks to the water cure infirmary, Kristen. You know what I think Mary did? What? I think Mary got dunked and sprayed and splashed.

And then she was like, you know what? I feel great. Thank you so much. Do you think this really helped? Do you think the dunk tank was like the carnival game where in the doctors just through baseballs? Yes. It absolutely was. So, yeah.

No more children for Jean Brown and Mary. Well, thank God. He got this land in North Elba, New York. This is when the murdering happens. Now let's talk about slavery. We've been talking about slavery. Let's talk about it some more. Let's talk about it even harder.

Okay. Specifically, I want to talk about the expansion of slavery. So, southern interests in government, it really depended on slavery expanding. Okay. And this is when things got really messy in the United States. So whenever a new territory was settled in the United States, which usually meant forcing out Native Americans, by the way. Yeah. Manifest Destiny.

That's another fun topic. Boy, this is going to be a real laugh of a pod. Mm-hmm. That'd be a good topic, Manifest Destiny. Yeah, it would. Yeah. Can you work duches into all these serious topics? Absolutely.

Okay. Duce count one. Yes. The history hose demand duches. They make us feel better. Or at least we say that so that you'll stop douching us. Surely we can fit duches in every episode. Well, whenever these new territories would open up, a question would come up.

Is this going to be a free state or a slave state? Right. The first time this problem came up was when Missouri wanted to become a state. Our home. The great state of Missouri. In 1819, Missouri wanted to become a state. And Missouri had mostly been settled by Southerners. So it only made sense that Missouri would be a slave state.

But Missouri was much farther north than other southern states. And if it became a slave state, it would kind of upset the balance. There's a very delicate balance between free states and slave states. Okay. And so they came up with the Missouri compromise of 1820. and that admitted Missouri as a slave state. But luckily they also had Maine. Maine wanted to become a state.

And that was admitted as a free state. So it evened out. Okay. It's all good. Is it? They also established the 3630 parallel. That is the southern border of Missouri. And it basically meant if we open up a new territory above this line, it's a free state.

it's a free state if it's below this line it's a slave state and Southerners were like howdy duty great deal well the southern white folks yes

one man who was not a fan of this compromise was founding father Thomas Jefferson oh he wasn't not a fan he was still alive in 1820 he was 77 years old dear God

he believed that putting a border between slave and free would split people further. He said, quote, this momentous question, like a fire bell in the night, awakened and filled me with terror. I considered it at once as the knell of the union. It is hushed indeed for the moment. But this is a reprieve only, not a final sentence. What did he want to happen?

I don't know, but the fact that Thomas Jefferson was so, bothered by this is hilarious. Famous enslaver, Thomas Jefferson. Yeah. So I'm just imagining him being fanned by an enslaved person laying on his chase lounge writing this. Yeah. Oh, border between slave and free. What's next?

Fuck that guy. Okay. Yes. Principal Skinner agrees. Thank you, Principal Skinner. Yeah. So let's fast forward to 1848. The United States wins the Mexican-American.

American war. Okay. It's a bullshit war, by the way. But they got a whole bunch of new territory for Mexico. So guess what they had to figure out again? Slave state or free state? Yep. So once again, another compromise.

Congress passed the compromise of 1850. California was admitted as a free state. They established the Utah and New Mexico territories, and those territories would decide for themselves if slavery would be allowed. Hmm. Okay. But slavery was not very prominent in either of these territories. Very different climate, very remote territories. Kind of hard to get there.

But this compromise also banned slave trading in Washington, D.C. Oh, okay. But for Southerners, the biggest win from this compromise was that they also passed the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850. This new act required federal officials and citizens to help capture runaway enslaved people. Random-ass citizens? Yep. So, Kristen, if you saw an enslaved person and they were a runaway, you were required by law to assist in capturing that person.

What if I didn't? You could be in trouble. Wow. And if you helped them, you'd be in even more trouble. Yeah, I guess that goes without saying. The Fugitive Slave Act also prohibited enslaved people from testifying on their own behalf or being entitled to a jury in court. So if they went to court, it would be a judge's decision, or do they not get to go to court at all? No, they could go to court, but they were not entitled to a jury.

Okay. They didn't have that right. This is the shittiest compromise. Yeah, the Southerners loved it. I'm sure they did. Sure they did. Well, these compromises were just kicking the can down the road, obviously, about the slavery question. The peculiar institution.

Yeah, peculiar is such a funny word to use. Well, this new Fugitive Slave Act, it set off a firestorm with abolitionists. They were appalled by this. Well, yeah. The fact that ordinary people were now required. to capture runaway enslaved people. Well, and probably emboldened because you know there were some people who were just thrilled to do this. And also, how do you know if someone is a fugitive slave?

Well, the biggest problem was these possees would form. Of course. And they would go into the north and just probably grab random black people. That definitely happened. I mean, you think about 12 years of slave. That's what happened to Solomon Northup. Yeah. Yeah.

He was captured. He was a free black man. Mm-hmm. The abolitionists were pissed off. It inspired Harriet Beecher Stowe to write Uncle Tom's Cabin, which is probably one of the most famous anti-slavery novels ever written. Probably the most, right? Isn't it sometimes credited with starting the Civil War? Oh, history.

History-ho Norman is going to be like, well, actually, you know. But that's what they say. It probably contributed it because it can. converted a lot of people into being abolitionists, right? Well, John Brown was very upset by the Fugitive Slave Act, as you can imagine. Yeah. So while he was in Springfield, you know, trying to deal with the stinky wool in his warehouse, P.U.

He formed a new militant group. It was called the United States League of Gileadites. Shit. And their whole goal was to fight off slave catchers. I love it. He even wrote founding documents. Okay. And he wrote,

Let the first blow be the signal for all to engage. And when engaged, do not work by halves. Make clean work with your enemies. Oh. Most of the 44 members of the United States League of Gileadites were free black people. Wow. Hell yeah. Okay.

They actually did fight off slave catchers that came to Springfield, Massachusetts. What they do? Chaste them out of town. Did they make clean work of it? To me that means you're killing people. They didn't actually kill anybody, but they did fight off slave catchers for sure. All right. Kristen, if you can believe this, in 1854, four years after the compromise of 1850,

Mm-hmm. There's another crisis over slavery. Oh, I thought they'd fixed this issue. Hell no. Two new territories have opened up in the United States. Kansas and Nebraska. Okay. I love you, Nebraska.

You and I. Wow. Lady Gaga is in the studio. Oh, Gagha. Hmm. I do really like that song, though. Why does she love Nebraska? I never actually read the lyrics.

Well, we don't need to know why. We just need to bop along to it. I would like to know why she loves Nebraska. Okay, well, I don't know why. Anyway, continue. Anyway, we're not talking about Lady Gaga. So Nebraska and Kansas are two new territories that have opened up in the United States.

And based on the Missouri compromise, both of these should be free states. Yes, we all remember 30, 36. We're all thinking it. Well, guess who raised a stink about it? Who? Those southern bulls. Mm-hmm.

So guess what? They had to come up with another compromise. Why? No, we already decided it's above the 36-36 line or whatever that was. 3630 parallel. That's what I said. Stephen Douglas, Senator Stephen Douglas, that short little Humpty Dumpty fella who was Abraham Lincoln's rival. Was he a Humpty Dumpty fella?

You should see a photo of him. Yeah, he's a little Humpty-Dumpy guy. So I just remember the Lincoln Douglas debates. Hang on. Let me look up a photo of this fella. Stephen, is he a pH fella? Okay. Stephen Douglas.

Yep. The P is silent, though, so it's Stehen. Okay. I'm just kidding. I know you. Oh. Oh, my. A little Humpty Dumpty fella.

He is a Humpty Dumpty fella. He's no John Brown. No, he's not. No. He would never make it into threatening boys' magazine. He's not dreamy at all. He'd receive a letter. We're sorry to inform you.

You have been rejected by threatening boys' magazines. No, we are thrilled to inform you. We are ecstatic. How dare you even apply? We are ecstatic to reject you. Gosh, he had some real downturned eyebrows. Okay, should I stop looking at him? Yeah, don't look too long.

Oh, he fell off a ledge. He had a great fall. Yeah. You were supposed to give me that, but I'm, But oh well, thanks. Better late than never, as they say. That's what my lover says. Stephen Douglas came up with the Kansas Nebraska Act.

This act basically said, let's let the people decide if it'll be a free state or a slave state. So people can move to the territory and then they'll just vote. Popular sovereignty. Does everyone get to vote, Stephen with a pH? Hell no. Yeah. The bill was signed by Franklin Pierce, one of the worst presidents in U.S. history.

I thought you hated Andrew Johnson the most. I can hate multiple presidents. Excuse me. Basically, Stephen Douglas and Franklin Pierce had created a proxy war between northerners and southerners in these new territories. Did they realize they were? doing that? These dumb-dums?

Surely. Okay. These are smart guys, right? I don't know. Well, I mean, all I know is you hate Franklin Pierce. Do you hate him because he's so smart? I hate him because he was a Southern pro-slavery sympathizer, and he signed this Kansas Nebraska act.

And I'll tell you a little bit later what else he did. He sucks. Okay. Well, after this act. Act was signed. Members of the Whig Party were upset because they said this is going to cause a lot of problems. This is going to cause violence. Right. And a bunch of members of the Whig Party, they split off and they formed a new political party. The lace fronts. No.

Sorry. The Republican Party. Oh. The Republican Party's whole platform when it was forced. They were hell-bent on preventing the further expansion of slavery. This is the party of perhaps our greatest president, Abraham Lincoln, and our second greatest president, Donald Trump. Basically, the same guy. Yeah, nothing's changed.

They're both great. Uh-huh. Did you ever hear about that? There's some like alt-right crazy dude Dinesh D'Souza or something. He basically made a documentary that was like

Donald Trump is just like Abraham Lincoln And here's why. In what fucking way? In what way? I haven't watched the documentary So I'll watch it And then I'll let you know what his argument is. This is like the comparisons to Jesus.

If you like Donald Trump, okay, fine. Like Donald Trump. But let's not pretend he is comparable in any way to Abraham Lincoln, both tall. Abraham Lincoln was taller than Donald Trump, and I bet that would piss off Donald Trump. Yes. But you know, James Madison was only 5'4 foot 4.

Ooh, nice little reference. That was a potential pick for the podcast name. It was my what I wanted most, and it just, when we pulled the people. It was a passing joke in the hot tub. by the way. And we pulled the people, no one wanted that. No one enjoyed that passing joke.

It was funny, though. I guess you had to be in our hot tub that day. I guess he had to be in the hot tub, you hoes. Okay. The Kansas Nebraska Act is a thing. And so now ordinary citizens will decide the fate of slavery

in the new territories. So guess what? A bunch of people moved to Kansas. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Rich Southerners paid poor farmer. from the south to go to Kansas.

Wow. And most of these poor farmers were not enslavers. Well, yeah, they couldn't afford to be. Yeah. Uh-huh. But they were still pro-slavery. Why was that? Hey, I'm just down on my luck right now.

Soon I'm going to be able to buy a person. Yeah. Yeah. That's... And racism. Yeah, no, that drives me... Yeah, black people are not worthy of... being citizens.

Yeah. You see that still today, that mentality of, I'm not going to side with the people I actually have the most in common with. I'm going to side with people who I aspire to be, or I aspire to be in their position with their money. Right. So these white farmers, these poor white farmers, probably had way more in common with black people.

Yes. But they're convincing themselves that, no, no, no. with enough hard work and enough yanking on my bootstraps. Yankin and crankin. And enough trips to the douche factory or whatever to get my... The water cure infirmary. That's right. It's a resort and spa, Kristen.

With enough trips there, I will one day be a wealthy douche lord. They bring you limanadas. They do not. They do not. They waterboard you at the watercure infirmary until you're like, you know what? I think I'm cured. And then you have a nice gazpacho soup. Celery, water chestnuts, cucumbers, all water foods.

Disgusting. Anyway, let's get back to Kansas. Please, let's. Poor farmers from the South move to Kansas. Northern abolitionists pay for families to move to Kansas. Yeah, because two can play at that game. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

These people were known as free staters, but they were also known as free soilers. No, they weren't. They were. Free soilers. Which does sound like someone who is constantly shitting their pants. Unashamed of pissing themselves is what I wrote. Yeah, I'm a free soiler. Yeah, what?

A deal. Yeah. I piss my pants. I have every right to do it. I'm not pissing in your pants. Yeah. But I will if you want me to. Because I believe in free soiling for everyone.

They really called them free soilers. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. There were even businesses set up that funded Northern Families to Move. The New England Immigrant Aid Society provided assistance to anyone that wanted to settle in Kansas. Well, and don't forget the trouser washing station. The New England Immigrant Aid Society also shipped containers full of Bibles.

Why? And underneath those Bibles were guns. Oh. Mm-hmm. These guns were nicknamed Beecher's Bibles. named after Henry Ward Beecher, who helped run the Immigrant Aid Society and raise money for them. Wow. Okay.

Beecher's Bibles. And these weren't just any guns, Kristen. Oh, no. These weren't like Nerf or nothing or Super Soakers. Thank you. That's what I was picturing a bunch of old-timey Bibles covering up the Super Soakers. Yeah, they weren't just any guns. They were Sharps Carbeens.

What's that? Sharp's carbines? Car beans. Or carbines. People say them either way. Have a delicious cup of carbines. Didn't you say your dad kept soup in the car? Yes.

Car beans? Thank you for bringing this up. Car bean soup. Growing up, my dad always had this disgusting little cup of like just add water soup in the back of his camry. You never know. That car smelled so weird, like old mushrooms. Oh, tell me more. But you're thinking car beans, it's kind of how my dad's car smelled.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, you're right. Car beans. He also had a long commute, so, you know, and cloth seats, and that'll soak up the farts. He was free soil in his pants, I think. He did, heated cloth seats are... He did not have heated seats. Give me a break.

This was a bare bones, 91 can. Hamry. Oh, yeah. We called it the dinkmobile. The dink mobile? Yeah, because it was dinky. But double income, no kids is what dink means. Well, okay, you would have had to travel back in time to...

You should have called it the dingy mobile. Why? I don't know. Dinky works, I guess. Thank you. The little weenie mobile. Ew, that's enough. We're talking about my dad.

Let's move on. All right. It was full of car beans. Sharp's car beans. Kristen, this is the latest in gun technology. I know you've seen old-timey war movies where they have their muskets and they put the little the little balls, the bullet balls down in there. They call them bullets, right?

The little bullets, yeah, musket balls is what they call them too. I thought they called them bullet balls. You stuff them down in the barrel, you put the gunpowder in, you take that rod and you Yeah, and you say, hold on right there, fellow, I'm going to kill you in 12 minutes. I'm doing this motion. I'm stuffing the gun. Okay. I'm about to bust.

Great. Well, with Sharp's carbines, the bullets were loaded into the rear of the gun, which is how modern rifles work today. So this was very new technology. Okay. The Sharp's carbines were very accurate. They were very light, and you could reload much quicker than a musket. Well, sure. And it's where we get the term sharpshooter.

Oh, okay. Sharp's carbons. I have actually heard that before. There you go. It's also where we get the term car beans. Very good. Which is when you keep a jar of beans in your car. I feel so insulted by that.

I'm glad I have control of the sound board. Yeah. Well, people know you have control because they know I would not have had Hank Hill interrupt us quite this much. Hell no. Thanks, Todd. Kristen, it's important to mention that free staters in Kansas or free soilers, not all of them were abolitionists. They had to be. They were free staters. They did want Kansas to be a free state. That is true. Okay. But they still did not like black people. Oh, okay. A lot of people who came to Kansas

were against slavery because it took our jerbs. Oh. Slavery took my job. It was bringing the working white man down. Okay. So we hate enslaved people. We don't hate enslavers. That's how that works. Of course that's how it works. Great. Well, they hate it in slavers, too. Okay. Yeah. Plenty of hate to. But you know, as long as they were free staters, abolitionists weren't gonna. Right. They don't care. Right. They just care about. They want, they want Kansas to be a free state. Okay. And if some dumb hick white guy is like, it took my job. Then okay. Sure. Sure. You're on our side, whatever. And so towns started forming in Kansas.

You have pro-slavery towns. Leavenworth. Hmm. That checks out. It does. It's home to the penitentiary. Some towns just have bad vibes. Leavenworth has bad vibes.

Yes. I don't know. You were weird with me. I was? Everyone. Norm and I sometimes for a little date afternoon. and any history ho will know the joy of this sometimes we go to a small town we go to a small weird museum whatever we go see a little historic place and every now and then we go through a town and i'm like this place has a bad vibe and of course i get to googling and i always find some horrible story which i read with pride that is a fun game until eventually norm says please stop i remember we were driving to where were we driving

driving. Bunker Hill? Yeah. Yeah. And we drove through so many tiny Missouri towns. And every single town you looked up, it was like. It was something terrible. Something terrible.

Like somebody was lynched in like every single town we drove through. Well, I kept getting bad vibes. And so I kept Googling until finally you were like, I can't hear about this anymore. A little weenie girl vibes. Weenie girl. Yeah, we talked about this. How you're the weenie girl. I don't make that

But yeah You were getting bad vibes Okay, so Pro Slavery Towns Leavenworth Easton I don't know Atchison

Oh no Amelia Earhart's home town Of Amelia Earhart Yeah Okay Some free state towns Topeka Okay

Osowatomy Lawrence Yeah Home of Kansas Or the University Of Kansas Yeah. Lawrence, we lived there for a short time.

For my one glorious semester of law school. For Kristen's incredible semester in law school. I did it so well. I didn't need to do the other semesters. That's how my family reacted when I told them I was dropping out. That's right. Silent. Yeah.

I love Lawrence. It's a great town. Yeah. Great place to go to law school for a couple months. You go for one semester and you're like, I got it. Yeah. I know everything. I've got all the depression I need.

Thank you. If only you duched me. I should have taken to the Lawrence Watercure Infirmary Resort and Spa. Yes. And then I would be a full-blown lawyer today. That's right. Yeah, when you wanted to drop out, I was like, Kristen just has a nervous disorder. Yeah.

No, it's not what they call it? You were a what? Well, they had certain terms for old-timey women. hysterical. I was, you know, my nerves. You were an invalid? Oh, God. Yeah.

Yeah. So you just got to take me to the dunk tank. Kristen, I went to the Walmart Supercenter. I got the biggest douche they had. This will cure you. This guy named Gary. Thank you. So there was a fever across the nation to move to Kansas.

The only cure was moving to Kansas. Okay. Yes. Well, the Brown family was very interested in Kansas. Okay. Five of John Brown's sons, John Jr., Jason, Owen, Frederick, and Salmon. They wanted to move to Kansas. Okay.

In fact, John Brown's half-sister, Florella, and her husband, Samuel Adair, they were already in Kansas. They moved there in October of 1854. Are we allowed to talk about this yet? or is this still underline? Florella and Samuel purchased a cabin in the free state town of Oswatomie. Kristen and I visited this cabin. It is still around today.

It is now the John Brown Museum. If you're looking for a hot date, that's what we recommend. We drove an hour to Osawatomy. It was a fun little date. Osawatomy is a tiny town. The museum was incredible, though. It was really amazing. You walk up and it's in this park,

which is actually a former battlefield. and you get to read so many plaques. Norm was just hard as a rock reading all these plaques. I was plaqued out of my mind. Okay, so, but yeah, there's this. I'm about to bust. Wait, did you already say the structure that's built around the cabin? No.

Okay, you tell. There is a stone structure that was built in the 1920s, and they built it around the cabin to protect it. So you walk into this stone building, and right away there's just a cabin. Mm-hmm. So then you go into the cabin. Yeah, they didn't waste it. a lot of space. Yeah, it's very tight in there, but the cabin is incredible.

They have a lot of the original furniture, the knickknacks. They even let you go into the attic. Yeah, you get to walk up the stairs. It is wild. It is crazy. And it was two bucks. It was, yeah, and it was a suggested donation of $2. It was incredible.

Very cool museum. Yep. And Osatomi is very proud of the John Brown. connection. They should be. Yeah. Well, unless they feel weird about all the murdering that's about to happen. Not sure what you're talking about.

In the spring of 1855, the five Brown sons go to Kansas to join Florella and Samuel. And John Brown was very proud of his boys. He claimed they were off to Kansas to, quote, help defeat Satan and his legions. All right. But surprisingly, John Brown would not be joining his children in Kansas.

John Brown had finally wrapped up his wool business in Springfield, his stinky wool. What did he do? He finally was just like, okay. He said, I'm out. Okay.

I'm not sure how he wrapped it up, but he was out of the wool business now. His farmhouse was finally done in North Elba, New York. Nice new farmhouse. And also, John Brown was old at this point. How old was he? He was 55.

Yeah. Which is pretty old back then. Adjusted for inflation. Adjusted for inflation, he was 150 years old. Wow, incredible. He was finally at a point in his life where he could slow down. He could work a farm. And he could just continue the abolitionist cause by helping the free black people that

lived in North Elba. and mentoring them on working a farm and continuing to help people on the Underground Railroad and spending time with Mary and the kids. Mary was alone for a lot of the time. Yeah. He felt bad about it. He did feel guilt about being away from home all the time.

And so John Brown told his kids, I'm not coming to Kansas. I'm staying in North Elba, New York. John Jr. and his brothers arrived in Kansas in the spring of 1855. and they set up camp along Middle Creek, which is about 15 miles west of Osawatomi. And they named their new settlement Brown Station.

Okay. Brown Station is no longer around. I think I was able to find it on Google Maps where it was. Okay. So I found where Middle Creek was, and it runs along John Brown Road. Okay. And off of John Brown Road is John Brown Drive.

It kind of follows the creek. Yeah. And I did a street view, and there's, like, an abandoned shack right there. I don't think it was from the John Brown era. I think it was from, like, the 1900s. But... Okay. I think that's a pretty good guess of where it was.

Yeah, probably. Yeah. It looked pretty grim. You have the creek. You have a big open field. You have some woods. There's just nothing around. Right.

Yeah. Good place to hide a body if you're interested. Thank you. I am interested. Hell no. This is why we're doing a history podcast. As opposed to what? True crime.

Although this story is going to get pretty bloody. I was going to say. But it's all in the past. It's fine. It's just history. It doesn't even count. So that area where John Brown's kids settled, it was somewhat of a contentious place. So they were 15 miles west of Osawatomi

But about 12 miles southeast of them Was a pro-slavery settlement Called Potawatomi Okay And notably there was a combination Store and Tavern there Called Dutch Henry's Crossing It was run by two German immigrant brothers

William and Henry Sherman And they had been there since the 1840s They basically came to the area They squatted on the creek crossing and that creek crossing was part of the California and Oregon Trail. Oh. And so they made pretty good money from the wagon trains that passed through. I bet they did.

They were also fiercely pro-slavery. Why? But they were not enslavers. They had no enslaved people. Why, though? White power. Okay. White power.

Thank you for that. It's just white power. Just a little white power. A lot of white power. hour. Yeah. Their tavern was a very popular meeting place for other pro-slavery people. Oh.

It was the OG Moose Lodge, Kristen. John Brown's kids frequently wrote to their dad about the situation in Kansas. Mm-hmm. It was not good. Yeah. Pop quiz, Kristen. Oh, no. What state is right next to Kansas?

Well, they're a couple. Do you want me to just name them? I'm thinking of one in first. particular. Okay, I will name them all. Colorado, Nebraska. These are bordering Oklahoma and Missouri. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,

Missouri. Missouri was a slave state. You've already mentioned that. And a lot of these boas from Missouri were not interested in Kansas becoming a free state. Yeah, I bet they weren't. So they hopped the border. they were known as border ruffians and they would harass free state people all the time

their worst offense was voter fraud you're kidding me I'm not kidding you I am not fucking kidding you these pro-slavery people they argued that the Kansas Nebraska Act it didn't really define who lived in Kansas who was a resident of Kansas well if you live there you live there

Well, apparently the rule was to them, every man in the territory on the day of the election is a legal voter. As long as they didn't have plans to leave Kansas. So you just say, yeah, I'm going to stay a spell. And then you get to vote. Yes. After you just hopped over the border. Yes. So they would come over.

They would vote. they would say, yeah, I have no plans to leave Kansas. And then the next day, they would say, well, actually, I do have a plan to leave Kansas, and they would leave. Yeah. There were no qualifications to establish if a voter lived in Kansas. It was a mess. Okay. And on March 30th, 1855, a major election was happening.

People were voting on territorial legislatures. who would create laws in Kansas. Yeah. Who would enforce the laws. Okay. And so Missouri border ruffians poured into Kansas on March 30th, and they voted illegally. They threatened judges who tried to stop them. They intimidated voters.

And they voted multiple times. There were stories of people voting in one polling place. Uh-huh. Go across town, vote in that polling place, and then go back to where they originally went and vote again. And there was nothing that could be done? They couldn't be like, hey, we just saw you 20 minutes ago? No, it threatened people. Oh.

In Leavenworth, which was a pro-slavery town, there were five times as many votes as there were people that lived in Leavenworth. Wow. Yeah. In total, pro-slavery delegates won the majority of the election. with 5,427 votes. Later that year, the government did a census in Kansas to kind of figure out how many people actually lived here. How many people actually lived there and could vote?

Yeah. 2,905. So twice as many votes as there were people. Yeah. This is actual voter fraud. Sorry, what's that? This is actual voter fraud. Real voter fraud.

voter fraud. Yes. When I was in grad school, I took a class on the border war between Kansas and Missouri, and obviously we learned about this. Yeah. Yeah. And it was during the first Biden-Trump election. And, of course, conservatives were in an uproar about voter fraud, even though there was no evidence of voter fraud. And I would just laugh because I'm learning about actual voter fraud.

Actual voter fraud that actually changed an election. Yeah. For a while, too. Well, of course, yeah. That's not something that's easily fixed. Yeah. They didn't keep records, right, of who came over and did this. I don't.

I just, I don't know. I wonder, you know, my family's been in Missouri and Kansas for generations. The Pitts fam went over to Kansas. and voted illegally? Very possible. It's possible. If they lived near the border, which they did. They did live near the border. Absolutely a possibility.

They went into Kansas and voted illegally. Good grief. That's a fun. Check on that, Kyla. She's doing your family history. Yeah, so Kyla, my sister, Kyla, is really into genealogy and stuff. And, whew.

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of fun history there. It's a riot. That's how we learned about Unity Goot. So, yeah. One of the fun things in my family is like, you know, well, I guess we don't have any kids, but Kyla and Jay have two children. And obviously, like, it's cool to be able to name your kid a family name. So, you know, you're going through the genealogy stuff and, like, are there any cool names? No, there are no cool names in the history of my family. In fact, we have someone, no joke in my family whose name was Unity Gooch. And she had a son, liner gooch. I'm a liner gooch.

Liner gooch is funnier than Unity Gooch. I don't know. Oh, my God. Okay. How long have we been recording? Two hours, 40 minutes. Dang, this is a meaty boy. It's the meatiest of meat.

Why do you sound depressed about it? Well, I had some, you know, I was concerned. I didn't want people to get bored, you know, if it's too long. But I think it's fascinating. I hope other people find it fascinating. I think if their true history hoes, they'll be enjoying the hell out of this movie boy. We'll see who the real history hoes are, right? The real history hoes, like, comment, and subscribe.

And leave us five-star reviews on whatever platform they use. So, Kristen, voter fraud has taken place in Kansas. Yeah. These Missourians have crossed the border and voted illegally. Yep. So freestaters are outraged. Right. Out of the, I think there were like 20 to 25 legislators, two of them were free staters.

Okay. Two, one. Out of how many? 20 to 25. Oh, I'm sorry. You just said that. Yes. Free staters called this new government the bogus legislature.

They did not. They did. Bogus. Old-timey word. Wow. I had no idea. That's kind of like the name Simon or, no, it was Jason that sounded. Okay.

Bogus. Totally rad. All right. So freestaters said, fuck this. We're going to make our own government. So they did. They formed their own legislature in. Topeka, Kansas.

This is an absolute mess. You have two different legislatures. One of which is bogus. One of which is bogus. And later Congress would have to investigate everything. Yeah. And of course they did find rampant voter fraud and they had to hold new elections. And it was a whole freaking thing.

Yeah. And they were like this Humpty Dumpty guy and Franklin Pierce should fuck off. Whose idea was this? So, but right now we've got two competing. legislatures. Okay. The newly formed pro-slavery legislature also formed a new political party, Kristen. They were called the Law and Order Party. That's rich. The Law and Order Party.

Mm-hmm. And they wasted no time enacting ridiculous laws. So first they ejected those two free state representatives. Sure. They just kicked them out. Uh-huh. They declared that only pro-slavery men could hold office and serve on juries. Oh, wow.

Stack the deck a bit, huh? They made it a crime to speak out against slavery. Five years hard labor. Oh, shit. For talking about it? For gib jabbing about how you hated slavery. Wow. If you assisted a runaway enslaved person, 10 years in jail.

Wow. They were also forming a militia of pro-slavery men. Okay. And the governor of the Kansas Territory, his name was Andrew Reeder. We drove by his house recently, which we were shocked to learn was near us. I couldn't believe that. We were shocked. I tell you, shocked.

No, we really were. Paul disgusted. Could not believe his house was nearby. You threw up right there in the car. Yeah. Kansas, the governor, Kansas Territory Governor's Mansion. Mm-hmm. It's in like Shawnee.

Yeah. Something. I free-soiled my pants when I found out. Thank you. Andrew Reeder vetoed a lot of the bills that this legislature passed. Good. And he also warned them. They were holding sessions illegally.

Mm-hmm. And so the legislature wrote to Franklin Pierce. President Franklin Pierce and said, this guy sucks, get him out of here. So guess what Franklin Pierce did? What? He got rid of Governor Andrew Reeder. Wow.

He sucks. Franklin Pierce was a terrible president. Well, John Jr., he could not believe that this was happening. Right. And freestaters were basically just allowing it to happen. People were just sitting by and doing nothing. Yeah, they were forming that new... I was going to say they're doing something.

They were forming that new free state legislature, but he just felt like it's... Some jaws needed to be ripped? Right. Let's tear out the jaws of the wicked. Okay. So he wrote to his father again, and he said that these freestaters, quote, exhibit the most abject and cowardly spirit whenever their dearest rights are invaded and trampled down. And he begged his dad to come to Kansas.

And he wanted them to bring guns. Shit. He told him, we need them more than we do bread. Wow. John Brown received his son's letter and said, that's it. I'm going to Kansas. Okay. Ending slavery was his God-given destiny.

He told Mary, I'm going to Kansas to make it a free state. Shit, he had all the confidence in the world. and plenty of wool to back it up. He did have a lot of wool. In June of 1855, the day after he got that letter from his son, he took off for Kansas in a wagon. He loaded the wagon with every gun he had, and he took his son Oliver with him,

and his son-in-law, Henry Thompson. Okay. One of the brown daughters married someone from the Thompson family. Do we know the Thompson? No. Oh. I'm just letting you know. Okay.

So it's him, it's Ollie, it's John, and a bunch of carbines heading in life. It's John Brown, it's Oliver Brown, and Henry Thompson, and a wagon full of guns. Okay. And they're going to Kansas. But along the way, John Brown stops in Syracuse, New York, and he goes to an abolitionist meeting, and he reads his son's letter to that group of abolitionists. Yeah. And he tells him, we need money. We need weapons.

Let's make it happen. Yeah. He got money and weapons. I mean, he seems very convincing. Mm-hmm. He was not a very good speaker. Oh, really? Not a very good public speaker.

Okay. But reading that letter convinced people, obviously. Yeah. He also stopped in Ohio to visit his father, Owen Brown, who was still alive. He was 84 years old. Good grief! Which is 230 years old adjusted for inflation. Absolutely.

it is. He gave John $40, which is about $1,400 today, and wished him luck in Kansas. It was the last time John would see his father. He would die shortly after this. After John left, Owen wrote to Florella, John's half-sister, who was in Kansas, and he told Florella that John seemed almost possessed when he stopped to visit him. He wrote, he has something of a warlike spirit. I think as much as necessary for defense. I will hope nothing more.

Owen, do you know your son? Owen knew John was up to something. Yeah. He was up to no good and was going to cause trouble in the neighborhood. Do you really think he was up to no good? No. John Brown believed slavery was the ultimate. sin of mankind, and he was going to do whatever it takes to end it. And that's very noble,

I think. Yeah. John Brown arrived at Brown's station on October 7, 1855, and it was bad, bad, real bad, Kristen. No good. Okay. All of his sons were sick with fever. Oh. They were starving because they were too weak to harvest food and gather crops and whatnot. A lot of their livestock had run away. Yeah. They were all huddled together in muddy tents. Oh, that sounds terrible. He was cold and windy.

Yeah. Well, John Brown quickly took charge being the leader he believed himself to be. Yeah. He harvested crops. He rounded up all that livestock that ran away. way, he built a cabin in less than a month. Good grief. And this is an old guy by these standards.

Yeah. I want you to guess what material John Brown used to build this cabin. Wood? That's right, Kristen. Logs. Okay. What rolls downstairs a loner in pairs and over your neighbor's dog. What's great for a snack and fits on your back.

It's log, log, log. It's log, it's log, it's big, it's heavy, it's wood It's log, it's log, it's better than bad, it's good Everyone wants a log You're gonna love it, log, come on and get your log Everyone needs a log, log, log, log, log. This is such a long song. Log from blammo

Do do do do do do do. I'm about to bust. What is that from? Renan Stimpy. Okay. That was my... I can't believe you tricked me. Long musical way of telling you that John built a log cabin.

Thank you. There was no other way to say it. None. And I'm sure it's really important for the story. Not really. John also handed out weapons that he had brought. Well, yeah. Because he told his kids, we will not be bullied by these pro-slavery men.

Mm-hmm. That December, John Brown learned a... about a murder. Murder had taken place in Kansas. Okay. A man named Frank Coleman, he was a pro-slavery guy from Virginia. He had murdered his neighbor, Charles Dow. Charles Dow was a free state man from Ohio.

And the murder took place in Douglas County, Kansas, kind of near Lawrence. In actuality, it seems to appear that Frank Coleman murdered Charles Dow. Because Charles Dow kept cutting down trees on his property, and he got pissed off, and so he killed him. So this was not a pro-slavery. He had nothing to do with slavery. Okay. But the propaganda machine spread, and all people of Kansas heard was pro-slavery guy, killed a free state guy. Right.

But there was an actual bad thing. Yeah, it was a murder. Well, the guy was cutting down his tree. What choice did he have? have no choice. Frank Coleman was not arrested for killing Charles Dow. He claimed self-defense. And so they let him go. How? Oh, because the pro-slavery government. Okay. I'll tell you in a minute. All right, fine, but I think I figured it out. Yeah. Well, the sheriff of Douglas County was a pro-slavery guy. Yeah. And he had been named sheriff by that bogus legislature.

I'm sure. Douglas County was primarily a free state area. So you got a bunch of free state. And then the sheriff is a pro-slavery guy. Cool. Yeah. Well, Charles Dow's friend organized a protest about this whole thing in Lawrence. Well, the sheriff arrested the friend for disturbing the peace. What an asshole. So a group of freestaters from Lawrence said, oh, hell no.

And they formed a good old-fashioned posse. They armed up and they rescued the man from the sheriff. Wow. And that pissed the sheriff off. After they left, he was fucking furious that these freestaters had bullied him. Well, too damn bad. I'm going to do something about this. That's what he sounded like.

Oh. We actually have audio recordings of this sheriff. That's amazing. Yeah, so he went to the new Kansas Territory governor. His name was Wilson Shannon, appointed by Franklin Pierce. Yeah. Super pro-slavery guy. Mm-hmm.

And Shannon said, don't worry, I'm going to call up the militia. And we're going to get these guys from Lawrence who took your lunch money. Uh-huh. And he also asked these Missouri border ruffians to come over, too. Good grief. Because they had a little militia, too. I'm sure they did. Yeah.

And these border ruffians, rough dudes, love to drink whiskey. I've heard bad things about whiskey. Dangerous powers. It took me two sips before I decided it was bad. So these guys, they went to Lawrence looking for a fight. And John Brown heard about what was about to go down. And so he gathered up his weapons. He took his sons, and they headed to Lawrence.

Lawrence was about 40 to 50 miles away from Brown Station. And along the way, they approached a bridge that led into Douglas County. and it was guarded by armed Missourians and Brown did not back down, opened up his coat and showed off his weapons. Hmm. And he was fucking stacked with weapons. I bet he was.

Kristen, he had a short sword. Okay. A revolver. All right. A rifle. Okay. And a big old bowie knife. Bowie knife?

A bowie knife. Okay. I don't know a lot about weapons. Or booey knife. Okay. Either one. Whatever. A buoy knife is just a big ass knife.

All right. It's the best way I can describe it. Okay. And he and his sons just marched toward the men on their horses. Uh-huh. Letting them know. What the fuck are you going to do about it? Yeah.

And the Missourians did nothing. They just let him pass. Yeah. And according to legend, John Brown turned around and screamed, yeah, you ain't going to do shit. Wow. That didn't actually happen. Hilarious, nonetheless.

But I would like to think he did do that. You know he said some shit. Yeah. Unfortunately for Brown, a fight never happened in Lawrence. He was itching to fight. I'm sure he was. But it didn't happen because at the last minute, Governor Shannon drew up a peace treaty. Really?

He did. When Shannon got to Lawrence, he saw the Missouri border ruffians. and they were causing all sorts of trouble. They were drunk on whiskey, harassing innocent people. He got embarrassed that these are my boys. He was embarrassed. He called them, quote, a pack of hyenas. And so he agreed to draw up a peace treaty.

And that whole event would later be known as the Wakaruso War. They're, okay. Not much of a war. Yeah. But John Brown, he wanted to fight, but he was also thought it was a moral victory that a pro-slavery governor had drawn up a peace treaty with freestaters. Because it basically was like, yeah, we freestaters, you know, we have rights and we're going to defend them. Also, I'm disgusted by my own people's behavior. Right.

Yeah, these guys who I ask to come help. They had gained some sympathy. Okay. Yeah. Well, that winter in Kansas was very, very harsh, and temperatures dropped down to zero. Pretty cold. I'm very familiar with these winters. Oh, my God.

Very harsh winters here in Missouri. Everyone. I plucked this poor boy out of North Carolina, brought him here. And every winter, for how many years have we lived out in the Midwest? Like 12? 12. Kristen was a member of the Kansas Emigrant Aid Society. And she took me to Kansas.

And every year around the wintertime, you say to me at least once, why do we live here? Yeah, I don't understand. And fun fact, we do not live in a log cabin. We don't. But what I'm trying to say is the winters here are very harsh. Yeah, they are. And I just can't imagine what it was like if you lived in a log cabin. a little shanty on the prairie and you had deal with that winter.

I'm sure it was great. It was an end to the violence, though, because pro-slavery forces and freestaters, they kind of dug in for the winter because it was just too damn cold. Yeah. Okay. And during this time, John Brown would go to Westport, Missouri. Mm-hmm. And he would buy supplies. And at this time, Westport was its own town.

now it is a neighborhood of Kansas City but it was a major trading hub for people that were going off onto the frontier trails and John Brown would go to Westport and he would just loudly proclaim in public hey I'm a free stater from Kansas come fight me yeah but nobody seemed to care

they just thought this guy was kind of nuts and ignored him and even wrote to his wife and said I don't think the people of Westport care that much about the slavery question. He was confused why no one would argue with him. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, I know we're going long already.

But that's a rich tradition in Westport. So Westport now is like, it's bars and restaurants and stuff. And every Friday and Saturday night, there is this dude who stands on a busy corner while people are all, you know, running around, getting drunk, doing whatever. And he talks about, oh, God hates gay people, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, sometimes he gets punched in the face, but most of the time people just ignore him. So it sounds like this is a rich tradition in Westport. I think so.

Someone yelling on a street corner while people ignore them. We can thank John Brown. Thank you. Well, as the snow melted that winter, more people started coming into Kansas. and the violence picked up again. Mm-hmm. In January of 1856, a free stater named Reese Perkins Brown, no relation to John Brown.

He was hacked to death with knives. Oh. And tossed at the doorstep of his cabin where his wife found him. Oh. And then, to make matters even worse, President Franklin Pierce... This bitch. Worst President ever.

Do you think he's the worst president? I think Andrew Johnson's worse. Okay. He learned about this free state government in Topeka because they had sent him their constitution and they had nominated two senators, you know. Yeah. Like normal operations. Mm-hmm.

And Franklin Pierce was like, what the hell is this other government doing operating in Kansas? They are treasonous. A treasonous government. Give me a break. Franklin Pierce was... Vogous. He was pro-slavery, Southern sympathizer, which is weird.

He was born in New Hampshire. I don't understand. Mm-hmm. But whatever. Okay. He's an asshole. Franklin Pierce, asshole. He can't hurt you now, Norman.

Yeah. He had terrible hair, too. Did he? Yeah. Wild hair? Just bad hair. Just bad hair? Should I look him up?

Go ahead. Okay. Hang on. I've got to wake up my computer. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Kind of an old-timey, not a comb over, but a push forward. You can tell it was real greasy, too.

Oh, you totally can. Yeah. You know that the artist, the painter was like, ooh, had some greasy hair. That is disgusting. Let me get some shine on that. Yikes. Okay. So President Franklin Pierce called the Free State Government in Topeka treasonous.

Mm-hmm. And John Brown heard about this because newspapers reported on it. Yeah. And he was just like, what the fuck? And he believed the U.S. government was taking part in a pro-slavery conspiracy to ensure that Kansas became a slave state. And what's crazy is John Brown was right. Well, yeah, of course he was. The president of the United States wanted Kansas to become a slave state.

There's no doubt. Obviously. Yeah. And even the next president, James Buchanan, also wanted Kansas to be a slave state. Another terrible fucking president, James Buchanan. I feel like you should do a series of terrible presidents? On presidents you hate, yeah. Oh, I definitely will.

Okay. Well, spring is finally here in Kansas in 1856. And the courts are opening back up. flowers are blooming, court doors are opening, juries are waffling inside. Well, there is a word going around that some of the local courts near Brown Station, they're going to start enforcing those pro-slavery laws that the law and order party enacted. Yeah, can't even talk about it. Five years hard labor, ten years for helping.

And so there were rumors that John Brown and his kids would be arrested. Yeah. for free state activity. In April of 1856, a territorial judge held court in the tavern at Dutch Henry's Crossing in Pottawatomie. Quite a bar, I've got to say. He summoned a grand jury, all pro-slavery men. Sure. And in an act of defiance, John Brown Jr. went to court, and he brought with him his newly formed militia.

the Pottawatomie rifles Oh my God They were also a minor league baseball team How many people did he bring? 30 to 40 people were in the Pottawatomie rifles Okay Not sure how many came with him to this court But he brought a bunch of men

All right John Brown was also there John Brown officially never joined The Pottawatomie rifles But he traveled with them He fought with them He was basically a member of the militant It sounds like he definitely was.

Yeah. All right. That's just my historian stickler coming out saying, well, actually, he was actually never a member of that militia. Okay, whatever. But whatever, yeah. He was like the manager of the Pottawatomie Rifle baseball team. Uh-huh.

He's like, I don't play for the Pottawatomie Rifles. I just manage them. But he definitely played. I'm the assistant to the traveling secretary. Okay, anyway, continue. Continue. So they showed up to court. And they dared that judge to do something.

Oh, fuck. I said, what the, are you going to fucking arrest us? I dare you to arrest us. Uh-huh. And they pledged. They would resist any enforcement of those bogus laws with force. Hell, yes. The judge adjourned the court the next day.

He freessoiled his pants, didn't it? Free soiled, did not arrest any of the Browns. Mm-hmm. Sorry for the audio on that one, folks. I was drinking. Ooh, delicious. I'm about to bust. Okay.

What's the bus count at? Too high. The bust count is too damn high. The bust count is... You've been busting too damn much. Kristen? Yes, Norman. The tensions in Kansas had reached a boiling point in May of 1856.

Yep. Another pro-slavery judge decided this free state government in Topeka was bullshit. Okay. And he decided to indict members of that legislature in an effort to disband the government. Wow. And so he sent a marshal to Lawrence, Kansas to serve papers to a few of the legislatures who live there. Mm-hmm. Legislators?

Mm-hmm. And the citizens of Lawrence chased the marshal out of town. Hell yeah. Get out of here. Mm-hmm. Get the hell out of here. Yeah. Or we'll duse you.

Yeah. And the marshal was like... At the spa. The marshal was like, oh boy, not again. His droopy dog. Yeah, it was droopy dog. A lot of people don't know that. A lot of people don't know.

Droopy dog was pro-slavery. Terrible. Terrible. But a hilarious dog. Oh, we can all agree to that. Well, the pro-slavery people, when the marshal was chased out of town, they were kind of excited because that means they could form up their militia again. All right.

300 men. and now they had a cannon Why did they have a cannon? It's a militia. They need weapons. Okay. And they had a cannon. All right.

And so on May 21st, 1856, this militia of 300 men, they went to Lawrence. Oh. To deal with these free staters. And of course, a messenger rides into Brown Station and tells John Brown in the Pot of Watermey Rifles, shit's about to go down in Lawrence again. Right. And they've got a fucking. cannon this time. And they have a cannon now. And so John Brown and the Pottawatomie rifles,

they form up and they make their way to Lawrence. Again, they're like 40 to 50 miles away. They can't get there in a day. On May 22nd, they're continuing their journey to Lawrence. And then a group of writers pass them by. And they tell them, the shit in Lawrence is over. You should probably just go home. The federal troops are there now. Oh. And, you know, they've taken control of the situation. There's really no point in you going to Lawrence. Yeah. The pro-slavery forces had destroyed the two abolitionist newspapers in Lawrence, the Herald of Freedom and the Kansas Free State.

They burned down the Free State Hotel. And then they left. Overall, a peaceful sacking of Lawrence. Well, that's not peaceful if you're burning shit down and stuff. Yeah, but there was one death during the sacking of Lawrence. Why are you calling it a sacking? That's what they called it, the sacking of Lawrence. I'm sorry, I thought you were being hilarious. There was one death during the sacking of Lawrence.

A pro-slavery man was crushed to death when a piece of the free state hotel fell on him. That is funny. It is funny. And it's not a joke. So he lit this thing on fire and then he got crushed by it. They lit it on fire. They may have shot it with the cannon. And then a part of the Free State Hotel crushed a pro-slavery guy. It is very funny.

You love to see it. Okay. That was the only death. All right. But despite this hilarious death of the pro-slavery guy being crushed by the very ironic Free State Hotel, John Brown was pissed off. Yeah, because he wanted to fight. He wanted to fight.

And he couldn't believe that no one in Lawrence had like stopped these guys from burning shit down. He's like, why didn't anyone fight them? Pick up your guns. Let's fight them. He said, I'm sick and tired of this illegitimate pro-slavery legislature enforcing these bogus laws across the territory. Quit pussyfooting around, he said. Since John Brown had moved to Kansas, six free states. state men had been killed by pro-slavery people.

Pro-slavery people lost the one guy who got crushed by the free state hotel. Hoisted by his own pittard. That's right. Well, and then some more bad news arrived to John Brown and his men. What? Another writer passed by, and he had news from the east. Senator Charles Sumner of Massachusetts, he was an outspoken abolitionist. He was beaten over the head.

with a cane on the Senate floor by Senator Preston Brooks of South Carolina. Yep. Another great future topic for this podcast. Southerners cheered this act. They sent Brooks' replacement canes. Yeah, how adorable. And abolitionists were appalled that a U.S. senator was beaten on the Senate floor by another senator, by the way. Yeah, that's nuts.

Yeah. I can see it not being that. different today of people being like, yeah, you did the right thing. Here's a fresh billy club for you. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Do you need some Carmex over there? I notice you chewing on your lips.

I'm enjoying these lips. Don't be too proud, sir. We are a Carmex family. Yeah, just because you didn't make it into threatening boys' magazine doesn't mean you can't lube up them lips. Here, I'm okay. I'm throwing it to you. Okay.

Let me loop them up on the mic. Okay. That seems unnecessary. Well. Stop making weird sounds. I'm about to bust. Okay. All right, I'm good.

All right. You'll learn when you're doing these meaty boys. You got to stay lubed, be lubed. Three hours, 12 minutes. Good grief. This is nuts. This is our first episode. Let me tell you people something.

Next week is my week. It will not be this long. I'm sorry. I know. I'm going to be known for meaty boys. No. Okay. Well, this is, no, it's fascinating.

When John Brown heard the news that Charles Sumner was beaten over the head by Preston Brooks, according to his son, he went crazy. Oh. He told his men, now something must be done. Something is going to be done now. Okay. Direct quote. Brown and the Pottawatomie rifles headed back home because there's no point going to Lawrence.

Right. And on the way home, Brown decided they needed to take part in a radical retaliatory measure. That's what needed to happen. And Brown thought, who better than those pro-slavery people from Pottawatomie? They were trying to enact those bogus pro-slavery laws on John Brown and his kids. They had that court session at Dutch Henry's Crossing. They were just as guilty. As the men who sacked Lawrence.

Okay. What do you think? Collective guilt, Kristen? I don't know. Controversial tactic. The Americans did it in World War II as well with the Germans. What do you mean? Collective guilt?

Mm-hmm. For example, they forced German citizens to bury bodies from concentration camps. Sure But this is murder He's about to do I have no idea what he's about to do I'm about to get to You called it a massacre

So So these Okay go ahead No what's your question None of these men are enslavers We're about to find out Okay On the morning of May 23rd

John Brown spoke with his men They gathered ground And he said I'm looking for volunteers to carry out a secret mission. He said something must be done to show these barbarians

that we too have rights. And one member of the group his name was Theodore Weiner. Teddy Weiner. Teddy Weiner. Okay. Teddy Weiner, he owned a shop

near Dutch Henry's Crossing. He was Jewish. He was from Austria, and he was harassed by pro-slavery men all the time. Okay. So Teddy Weiner said, I'm down to clown. I feel bad that we've made fun of Teddy Weiner now. Teddy Weiner is a legitimate funny name. Yes.

Okay. Very good. Continue on. Another man in the group, his name is James Townsley. He told John Brown, look, I know where these pro-slavery men live. They lived in a small settlement along the Pottawatomie Creek and an offshoot of the creek called Mosquito Creek. It's still a mystery today why they call it Mosquito Creek.

That's funny. You're supposed to laugh at that. If I had control of that board right now, it'd be the cricket sound. No, it'd be the crickets. But the most notable person that lived in that settlement was Henry Sherman, the owner of Dutch Henry's Crossing. Mm-hmm. So John Brown gathered up seven men, four of his sons, Owen, Frederick, Watson, and Oliver.

Watson? Watson was another son. Good grief. Okay. Who came later to Kansas. All right. They're just popping up everywhere. His son-in-law, Henry Thompson, Teddy Weiner, and James Townsley. They had rifles, they had revolvers, they had knives, and they had broadswords. and John Brown asked his men, start sharpening your swords.

Okay. And so while they're sharpening their swords, another volunteer from the Potawatomi Rifles comes over, and he's like, what are you guys planning to do? Mm-hmm. John Brown replied, he was going to regulate matters on the creek. Hmm. And then the volunteer advised him to proceed with caution. John Brown snapped back at the man. He said caution.

Caution, sir. I am eternally tired of hearing that word caution. Yeah. It is nothing but the word of cowardice. On May 24, 1856, John Brown took his seven volunteers, and they camped for most of the day near the Potawatomi Creek. He spent most of that day convincing his men what had to be done. John Brown wanted to strike terror into the hearts of people that support.

slavery. And so at around 10 p.m. that night, they took off for the creek. Everything okay over there? Yeah. You getting a little nervous? I am. I don't know why. I'm not part of this.

You just wrapped up a very successful true crime podcast. Thank you. What's your point? Now you're nervous about John Brown and Teddy Weiner running off to Potawatomi Creek? I guess so. Okay. Keep the story going. At around 11 p.m., James Doyle, his wife, and four children were soundly sleeping in their cabin.

The Doyles were from Tennessee, and they were very poor. All six of them lived in a one-room cabin. They were not enslavers, but they were firmly pro-slavery people. James Doyle and a few of his sons had been involved in pro-slavery activity. They had served on that court session at Dutch Henry's Crossing. James was a member of the grand jury. His son was the bailiff. And they were card carrying members of the Law and Order Party.

Yeah. At around 11 p.m., they heard a loud knock on the door. James Doyle got up, and he asked who it was. The voice answered back. They needed directions. So Doyle opened his door and in-burst John Brown and his men. And their guns were drawn, and they showed their swords. And John Brown demanded that James Doyle and his three sons come with them.

And Mahalo Doyle, James' wife, begged John Brown, please don't take my youngest son. He was 16-year-old John Doyle. Please don't take him. John Brown agreed that John Doyle could stay. So he took James and his two other sons, and they disappeared. to the night. Mahala Doyle only heard silence and then several minutes later a single shot rang out through the night but Mahala was too scared to go out and see what happened. Yeah. I do appreciate that you loaded that thing with some actual important sounds to the story.

Yes. Okay. Around midnight, Alan Wilkinson, his wife, Louisa Jane and their two small children were resting in their cabin. The Wilkinsons were like the Doyles. They were very poor. They were not in slavers. But Alan Wilkinson was a member of the pro-slavery legislature. Suddenly they heard their dog barking like crazy. Louisa Jane was sick with measles. She was bedridden. She heard footsteps approaching their door. And she asked Alan to check on it. So Alan Wilkinson got up and he asked who's there.

And again, a voice answered back that they needed directions. Unlike James Doyle, though, Alan Wilkinson just gave the directions through the door. He wasn't going to open the door. Yeah. And then the voice asked, well, will you come outside and point to where we need to go? Point out in the dark. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Louisa Jane from her bed begged her husband, don't open the door. She had a bad feeling, but it didn't matter because John Brown and his men just burst through the door. Yeah. And they grabbed Alan Wilkinson, and they took him out into the night. And Louisa Jane, who, again, laying sick in bed with measles, she said she heard her husband's faint voice arguing with the men, and then silence. That cricket noise can pull double duty. It can be a serious noise or a fun noise. very good

a couple hours later James Harris his wife their small child and three visitors were all asleep in a one-room cabin again James Harris

like the Doyles and the Wilkinsons not an enslaver but he worked at Dutch Henry's Crossing and two of his visitors were spending the night because they had purchased a cow from him and they were going to leave the next morning with their newly purchased cow.

Really bad timing. The third visitor was William Sherman, Henry Sherman's brother and the co-owner of Dutch Henry's Crossing. This time there was no knock on the cabin. John Brown and his men burst through. John Brown asked James Harris, where's Dutch Henry? But John Brown was out of luck. Dutch Henry was out in the prairie looking for cattle,

who had gotten away. But John Brown said, okay, I'm going to take you guys then. So he took James Harris and the three visitors outside. But after a few minutes of interrogating them, James Harris and the two men who had bought the cow, they were allowed back in the cabin. William Sherman did not come back. Fifteen minutes later, James Harris heard a single shot and then silence. It was now dawn Sunday morning, May 25th. Mahalo Doyle, which was the first cabin that John Brown visited. She sent out her 16-year-old son, John, to see if he could find his father and two brothers.

And about 200 yards from the cabin, John came upon a gruesome sight. His father, James, and his brother William were dead in the road. James had multiple stab wounds. and a bullet in his forehead. William's head was cut open. His sides had been slashed. His jaw had been ripped open. Oh, my God.

And all of this, all of these wounds were sword wounds. So John Brown and his men killed these people with swords. Why his sides? Is that just torture? Well, a big part of it was they were trying to protect themselves. And so, like, a sword's coming. down you turn to recoil and it slashes your side oh that makes a lot of sense okay defensive wounds yeah nearby was john's other brother drury his fingers had been cut off his arms had been cut off

he had an open wound in his head and he had a hole in his chest a hole like a bullet hole no like a hole like they stabbed him with the sword and multiple times or cut out a hole i mean it Oh my God. Yeah. In fact, that single shot that Mahala heard, John Brown apparently shot James Doyle after he was already dead. He'd been killed with swords and then shot in the head. Maybe I really am a weeny girl. That weenie girl's starting to come out again, huh?

I... Maybe violence ain't so cool after all. That's the lesson we've all learned. No, I... I do feel weird. because I've been so, yeah, violence has to happen sometimes. But now I'm like... And you're confronted with it and...

Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. That same morning, a few locals showed up at Alan Wilkinson's cabin, which was the second cabin John Brown went to. His cabin also operated as the local post office, so some people were just coming by to get their mail. Yeah.

And they found Louisa Jane sobbing. And she was terrified. to leave her cabin. And so the locals looked around and they found Alan Wilkinson's body. He was dead in some brush about 150 yards away and his throat had been cut open.

Yeah. Then at the final cabin, James Harris that morning went out to see what happened to William Sherman. And he found his body lying in Mosquito Creek and James Harris said Sherman's skull was split open

in two places. and some of his brains was washed out by the water. Oh my God. The killing of five people near Potawatomi Creek sent shockwaves through the area immediately. Yeah. In fact, when John Brown and his seven men went back to camp to rejoin the Potawatomi rifles, they had already heard about what had happened. Yeah.

Jason Brown, John's son, he went up to his dad and said, did you have anything to do with the killing of those men on the Pottawatomie? And John Brown replied, I did not do it, but I approved of it. And Jason said, well, I thought it was a wicked act. Wow. And John said, God is my judge. We were justified under the circumstances. That's about as close to an admission that John Brown would ever make about the Pottawatomie massacre.

Yeah. Brown simply felt he was evening the score. Six free-staters had died since he'd been there. So now five pro-slavery men were dead. For the rest of his life, John would deny he had any involvement in what would later be known as the Potawatomi Massacre. But it was pretty obvious he did it. There was overwhelming evidence. Of course he did it.

Witnesses in the cabins described the leader of the group as an old man with a thin face. They didn't mention the chiseled. kitchen, this tall, dark, sexy man burst into my cabin and killed my husband. That's not funny. But it is a little funny. John Brown said he wanted to shock pro-slavery people. Well, I'm sure he did it. And he did.

Yeah. He also hoped it would stop future violence. Well, that's ridiculous. A lot of the people that lived on the Potawatomi Creek, they left. They were scared to death after this. I'm sure. But it did not stop the violence. It made it way worse.

You're kidding me. A pro-slavery newspaper in Missouri printed the headline, Let's Slip the Dogs of War. Imagine you open up your newspaper and that's the headline. You'd be like, damn, what happened? Southeastern Kansas was now a battleground of guerrilla warfare. Pro-slavery and free state forces raided each other. robbed each other, burned houses to the ground, and murdered everywhere across the territory.

And federal troops struggled to contain the violence. Yeah. Which is weird because all John Brown wanted to do was just stop the violence. That's all I wanted. Oh, my gosh. Who could have predicted this? I didn't think there'd be more violence after I did this. I thought what I did was pretty fucked up.

I didn't think anyone would top this. Well, obviously, warrants immediately went out for the arrest of John Brown and his sons, even the ones that maybe weren't there. Maybe weren't there. Maybe. A band of Missourians caught Jason Brown. Was that your stomach? Was my stomach?

Are you sure it was your stomach? Sounded like maybe a stomach-but-combo deal. Are you getting hungry? Have we been podcasting so long that you're hungry? Well, I'm almost done. Don't worry. Okay. Okay, okay. Don't worry, everybody.

A band of the Missouri militia, they caught Jason Brown, even though he did not take part in this massacre. Okay. They almost killed him right on the spot, but they eventually turned him over to authorities. Next, they found John Jr. He had been hiding in Osawatomi near his Aunt Florella's cabin out in the woods. And when the Missouri militiamen found John Jr., they said he was acting, quote, quite insane. John Jr. was having a mental breakdown. He was suffering from fatigue, anxiety, stress, and he honestly could not believe what his dad had done. Well, and he participated, right? John Jr. did not participate. Oh, okay. Okay. I can read you the son. I told you there's a lot of sons. Okay. The sons that participated were Owen, Frederick, Watson, and Oliver. Okay. So they found John Jr.

They tied him to a tent pole, and they beat him to within an inch of his life with rifle butts. Oh, okay. They turned him over to the authorities as well. A grand jury let Jason go. They determined he had not taken part in the massacre. Okay. But they kept John Jr. Because John Jr. was actually a member of the free state legislature.

He represented the Brown Station. Okay. district or whatever. And, you know, he had been known to take part in free state activity. So they kept him for three months in jail. Jason immediately went back to Brown Station, hoping to find his dad or his, you know, anybody. Anybody. It had been burned to the ground.

Sure. Jason now feared for his life. And he went looking for his dad, who was hiding somewhere in the woods with the pot of Of which he, of course, was not a member. Not a member. Yeah. I'm the traveling secretary. Most of the Brown family members, including the women and children, they had run to Osawatomi and were staying with Florella, Brown's half sister.

Florella's husband, Samuel, was shaken up and was pissed because John Brown had put his whole family at risk. Absolutely. Meanwhile, John Brown was indeed hiding in the brush and woods of Kansas, but he said he was not afraid of suffering the consequences for the massacre. Only God could judge him. If he wasn't afraid of suffering the consequences, why was he hiding? He has things to do, Kristen. He is hell-bent on the destruction of slavery. He can't do this if he's been arrested.

That's true. He has a mission. I'm back on his side, I guess, but I've really. News of the massacre had reached the papers back east. They noted a Captain Brown had committed the act. So he was now making a name for himself. Yeah. As Brown moved across Kansas, he learned that a group of the Missouri militia were near the town of Blackjack.

And he wasted no time he was going to attack them, even though he was outnumbered. Mm-hmm. On June 2nd, 1856, John Brown's men surprised a pro-slavery force at the Battle of Blackjack. Brown had about 25 men, the Missouri militia, about 80. Oh, well, they're fucked. This was the first open-field battle between pro-slavery and free state forces. It's like a little trailer for the Civil War. Okay.

Mm-hmm. And incredibly, John Brown's men won the battle. How? A freak miracle of luck. Okay. So they're exchanging fire in this open field. Right. And then all of a sudden, coming out of the woods is Frederick Brown, John's son, on a horse.

Mm-hmm. Come streaming out of the woods. Yeah. The Missouri commander was, scared that it was a cavalry charge. He thought he had been surrounded. Oh. And he immediately surrendered.

Oh. But it was just Frederick Brown being kind of an idiot. Right. Running onto the battlefield by himself on a horse. Yeah, being way too bold. Well, it worked. Yeah. John Brown took 26 prisoners.

Holy shit. And exchanged them for some free state prisoners. Okay. This battle brought John Brown a ton of notoriety. Well, yeah, now he's a legend. He became a legend. A reporter spent time with John Brown after the battle and described him as a volcano beneath a covering of snow.

Wow. He was strange, resolute, repulsive, an iron-willed, an inexorable old man. Huh. His legend grew, Kristen. It certainly did, Norman. John Brown continued to hide in the brush and woods of Kansas. At one point, federal forces found him, but let him go. Why? Either they, the federal

commander felt he could not enforce the warrant, or he was unaware of the warrant. It's not really sure. He got intimidated by John Brown. Well, nevertheless, he found John Brown in his pot-of-a-wadamie rifles and said, you have to disband, go home. And so they all went home. But of course John Brown was back at it again immediately. Yeah. Two months later on August 30th, 1856, that Missouri militia went to Osawatomi because they thought John Brown was hiding there. Yeah.

You know, his half-sister lived there. Sure. On the road into town, they found Frederick Brown, John Brown's son, who had stormed the earlier battle on a horse. Yeah. Well, Frederick thought he recognized one of the men. from the pro-slavery force. So maybe he was confused and thought it was a friendly.

Yeah. It was not. The Missourians immediately shot him in the chest and killed him. Oh, okay. And words spread very quickly that pro-slavery forces were in Osawatomy. Fleurella took the whole family and hid in the woods. And John Brown was notified that the Missourians had arrived. So he had about 40 men.

and he was trying to hold off an attacking force of 400. Oh, well. He was not only outnumbered, he was outgunned. The Missourians brought that cannon from Lawrence, you know. And they used it heavily on Brown's position. He had his forces kind of hiding in the trees. But one tactic artillerymen would do it this time is they would shoot at the branches above. and the branches would obviously fall and collapse on the men below, you know, hopefully injuring them.

Huh. Because artillery was not very accurate back then. So they're like, just shoot the fucking branches. Yeah. All right. Fine. Surprisingly, John Brown was able to delay the Missouri militia quite a bit. Obviously, he had to retreat.

Yes. 40 men are not going to defeat 400. Right. So he took his little army across the marita. River, and the Missouri militia captured Osawatomi. In the evening after the battle, John Brown stood with his son, Jason, who had finally found his father and had rejoined. He stood with Jason on the banks of the Maritocene River, and they watched as the pro-slavery

militia burned Osawatomy. John Brown's escapades in Kansas brought him national recognition as a militant abolitionist and a legendary guerrilla fighter. He would later earn the nickname Oswatomie Brown for his valiant defense of the town against overwhelming odds. Yeah. And as he watched the town burn, John Brown felt that God had a greater purpose for him now. With tears in his eyes, he turned to Jason and he said, God sees it. I have only a short time to live.

Only one death to die. And I will die fighting for this cause. There will be no more peace in this land until slavery is done for. I will give them something else to do than to extend slave territory. I will carry the war into Africa. What? For John Brown, Africa was a code word. Okay.

When he said Africa, he was referring to the heartland of slavery, the American South. He was going to carry his war. or directly to the south. To the south. And that's where we will pick up this story next time. Holy shit. That's the story of the rise of John Brown and the Potawatomi Massacre.

That was fascinating. Thank you. Three hours, 42 minutes. Jesus. Okay. Meaty goodness. Of uncut, meaty goodness. Although it is cut, it's cut in half.

Yeah, if I had kept going... Who knows? Well, the second part's probably going to be even longer. Are you serious? You are nuts. Okay, that was fascinating. Thank you. I feel like you took me on quite a journey.

You started off as a big badass guerrilla fighter and you ended up being Lil Weenie girl by the end. Yeah, I sure did. History is brutal. Yeah. It is. And it's funny, you think back to that and you're like, well, yeah, John Brown, hell yeah, go get them.

But like it's one thing to like obviously look back and think of that, but it's another to like actually be in that moment. Well, I'm not even in the moment. And the second you tell me, these are poor people living in one cabin, it's a whole family. They burst in and a mother is. Yeah, but they're big fans of slavery. I know. I know. That's they suck.

They completely suck. But I guess what we've learned. learned here today is that I don't want them to be hacked to bits. Maybe instead of being hacked to bits, they could go to a water cure infirmary. Yeah. And then they wouldn't be fans of slavery. I don't know how that works, but like. Well, it would cure their ill ways, I guess.

Dush the pro-slavery leanings right out of them. Exactly. Oh, well done. Thank you. I, you know, obviously I had thought about telling his life story and just kind of starting in Kansas, but I thought it was really important that we learned about how he became the man he was, how he experienced that heartbreak and loss in his life, how he had been a failed businessman, how he was super religious, and it obviously influenced him greatly. And, you know, it all led to. to what happened in Kansas, and then what happens in Kansas is going to lead to my next story. I think what I love about the way you did this is, number one, we podcasted so long that you almost had an explosion, which I thought was my territory. I almost became a free soiler on this very episode.

Yeah. But no, I feel like any time I've read about John Brown's story, which obviously I don't remember shit, but it does seem like it always starts in Kansas. And you don't get the full picture like you, my lover, my husband, have told us. You're acknowledging that I'm your lover. I guess. Thank you. I was trying to keep that under wraps, but you revealed it.

I'm about to bust. Okay. Thank you so much as I say. Anyway, going back multiple generations, I think it's important. Yeah. It shows that he was built for this. in a way and pushed to it. John Brown had a tough life.

Yeah. And his father had a tough life. His grandfather, obviously, you know, dying of dysentery. Not a fun way to go out. But, yeah, I did think it was very important that we learned where John Brown got his views from. His father was very interesting. His father has his own Wikipedia page. Oh, really?

Yeah. He was a super, super. super cool guy Owen Brown Owen Super cool guy Yeah Okay well I'll have to read about him later

I don't have time now He looks very much like John Oh So also very sexy Threatening boy Although he wasn't threatening He didn't murder anybody He would have been a non-threatening boys magazine

Right next to you I mean you know He did some good shit for the world Yeah You know Well should we wrap it up I guess so I'd like for this to end at four hours.

Oh, my God. How far? We're only at three hours, 47 minutes. No, we can't go any further. You're about to either shit your pants or I don't know. I'm hungry. Okay, we'll go eat some food. Here's how we're going to end this podcast.

Okay. You know what they say about history hoes? We always cite our sources. That is right. And for this episode, I got most of my information from two books, Midnight Rising by Tony Horowitz And To Purge This Land with Blood A biography of John Brown by Stephen Oates

Good grief, what a title Okay, well that's all for this episode Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Hey, all you history hoes out there, please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time, Toodoooo-da-ta, and Cheerio.