An Old Timey Podcast - 10: Lucy Loves Communism?? (Part 5)

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

Lucille Ball had everything she’d ever wanted. She had the #1 show on television. She had a family. She had money. But Lucy was waiting for the other shoe to drop. And in the spring of 1952, it did. FBI agents showed up at her door, wanting to know about her relationship to the communist party. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Love, Lucy,” by Lucille Ball “The Plot Thickens” podcast from Turner Classic Movies “The Life of Lucille Ball,” by Kathleen Brady The documentary “Lucy and Desi” Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes for Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And Normie C is who I be. Ew, oh no. On this episode, Lucy loves communism. What? The C-word?

Yeah. That's what they're talking about when people say the C-word. Communism. Did you know that back in the day, you couldn't say the C-word on television? I did not know that. You had to say bitch. Folks, that's the kind of humor you can expect in this week's episode. That's right.

It's going to be a bigon. And man, if you found that joke hilarious, you should go over to whatever platform you listen to this podcast and give us a five-star rating. We haven't even earned it yet. Well, no, that joke earned it. That joke was like... That's a five-star joke right there. Yeah. Do you have any more material for us?

Nope, that's it. Oh, that's too bad. I do want to thank all the loyal history hoes out there who abided by my birthday wishes and gave me, gave us some five-star reviews. I legit was shocked because I went and checked our ratings and reviews and was like, oh my gosh, we have a bunch of new ratings. That's so great. But I did wonder why.

And then I saw the reviews coming in. And several of them said, happy birthday, Norm. So I must admit, I did. I didn't think people would actually take you up on that request. Oh, interesting. Kristen. Yes, Norman. You have no faith in these history hose.

I do have faith in the hose. Okay. Okay. Okay. And as you know, we're coming up with a name for my militia. It's still TBD, but, you know, we're brainstorming. This is feeling very cult-like. And I will take you all down.

Thank you very much. That's not happening. Are you going to plug our Patreon? Or are you just going to say? I will. I will. I'm bragging about your militia. Folks, if you want more information on this militia,

you've got to join the Patreon, okay? For just $5, you get access to the Discord. I'm going to make a secret server in the Discord for the militia. What? No, that's so rude. You're not allowed in, Kristen. Well, this Colt's going to thrive if I'm not in there. That's right.

Monthly bonus episode of Old Timey Podcast with full video of that episode. Oh my gosh. Is it true? we record these things topless? Find out. Plus, you also get the entire back catalog of bonus episodes of Kristen's old podcast. Let's Go to Court. A little nostalgic listening right there. That's right. It's not that old. But if you really want to support the show, get on that $10 tier because then you get a thank you card with stickers. You get monthly watch parties. We just watched a bunch of infomercials. The Bumpit infomercial.

was amazing. Amazing. Have you ever seen a before and after picture where the after picture is so much worse? Go watch the bump it. It might be the best two-minute infomercial I've ever seen. Because now I want to bump it. You get ad-free episodes of all of our shows. And you get full video of literally every episode of an old-timey podcast.

Plus you get them a day early before all the rest of the chumps. That's right. Oh. That's right. That way you can brag to you. your friends and be like, have you listened to the new episode? Oh, I have. I have. And Kristen was topless. Hey, don't say it with disgust. Oh, Kristen was toppling. No, he was bragging like, yeah, and Kristen was topless. Okay, very good. Very good. Very good. We all know about your big

pleasant hooters, Kristen. Pleasant. They're not great, but they're pleasant. They are there. That's what I'm saying. Pleasant's a nice word. It is. Those boobs are pleasant. Usually to describe, usually you use the word pleasant to describe like a kindly elderly neighbor. Anyhow, that's patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Support us there, won't you? I did a terrible job on this plug, huh? It was all over the place. Are we ready?

Or are you wanting to say things to the people? No, I guess just thank you all so much for the birthday wishes. Yeah, that was really sweet. Thank you for those five-star ratings. one of the best birthday gifts I've ever received. Wow. And Kristen got me a new pair of shoes for my birthday, and they're very nice, and I'm excited to wear them out. You don't need to tell the people what I got you.

Why not? I don't know. Okay. It was a nice gift. All right, very good. Yeah. You're damn right it was. Those crocs won't wear themselves.

Kristen, are you ready to tell me about communism? Because I got to say, I'm intrigued. Well, first I have to do a mistakes of shame. Really? Shut up. You know I do. Do you really? Look at your...

I'm so excited. This isn't... This isn't going to be some... This is just a preemptive apology. No, no. Because I wish I don't know too much, you know, I can't handle it. Oh, my goodness. Whichever won't go think of me.

No. It's not that. It's an actual mistake I made in last week's episode, and you know exactly what it is. Because in the video version of this podcast, you got all... sassy and proved me wrong with clips. Okay, hang on. You took this feminist down with facts and logic. Finally, someone's done it.

Mistakes of shame. Norm. Bravo. I'm excited to hear this. Norm, in last week's episode, you may recall that I said that Lucy and Ricky slept in separate beds. I even got really specific and said that they were separate. separated by like a nightstand or some shit.

And you were like, you know what? Actually, I think I recall that in that episode that you're speaking of, ma'am, they were in a bed together. That's right. I was convinced you were wrong, convinced I was right. And you, like the sassy little hoe that you are in the video version of this podcast, you had me arguing with you, telling you how right I was. and you dared to insert a clip from the I Love Lucy episode that we were discussing showing Lucy and Ricky clearly in, I mean, they were clearly in two twin beds that had been pushed together.

Correct. And yet. And it formed one big bed. Yeah. Yeah. I was wrong. In some episodes, they were in separate twin beds. Sure.

I was specifically referring to that episode. Yeah. Okay. Great. Anyway, this has been Mistakes of shame. Wow, your first actual mistake. I'm very proud of you.

You're proud of me. Yes. Finally owning up. Hey, I own my mistakes, baby. For example, this marriage. Ha ha ha, ha, ha. Wow. If there's any history hose out there who are single and looking for a...

Don't you dare. Looking for a new man. I think Kristen's about to leave me. That's enough. Okay, do you need a previously? I'm afraid I do. Okay. Previously on an old-timey podcast.

Lucy and Desi had an idea for a TV show, but no one with any type of power believed in them. Network executives and advertising executives argued that America wouldn't accept an all-American girl like Lucy being married to a Cuban-American man. But those executives didn't know who they were dealing with. Lucille Ball was an incredibly talented comedic actress. She had expert timing, full control of her body, and a tireless work ethic. And Desi Arnaz, in addition to playing an excellent straight man, was the, the businessman that none of these white executives saw coming. Desi was charming. He was smart. He was a risk taker and an excellent negotiator.

And he loved to have the last laugh. When I Love Lucy hit TV screens, it was unlike any other show on television. It was beautifully lit thanks to a pioneering lighting technique. It was filmed with three cameras in front of a live studio audience. It had high-quality sets and pitch perfect music. And best of all, the characters. Executives had poo-poohed Desi for who he was. They didn't like that he was Cuban. They didn't like his accent. They couldn't stand his music. But rather than try to downplay what the big, important executives saw as Desi's weaknesses, the writers for the I Love Lucy show leaned in to what made Desi Dezzi. Ricky Ricardo ranted in Spanish, just like Desi did.

The show had fun with his accent. He sang Cuban songs. He talked regularly about growing up in Cuba. Ricky Ricardo was proud of who he was. And this marriage that supposedly no one would want to see? Well, people absolutely did want to see it. Lucy and Ricky would argue,

but in that half-hour format, every episode ended on a happy note. There was no question that Lucy and Ricky loved each other, and no question that the audience loved them too. Lucy Ricardo was endearing. She was an underdog and a kind-hearted schemer. Her comedy had heart. It had steps. Lucy Ricardo would see something, pause and react, pause and get an idea, pause, and go at it, full force. Her partner in comedy was Ethel Mertz, played by Vivian Vance. These two women were the comic duo of the show. I Love Lucy quickly became the number one show on television. Lucy's

comedy was so approachable. Everyone got it. The audience felt an intimacy with the show and its characters. In fact, the writers discovered that the audience loved Lucy Ricardo so much that they got uncomfortable if it ever looked like she was in real danger. The audience got mad if a character was mean to Lucy. So the show created rules. No. character could ever be too mean to Lucy, and Lucy could never appear to be in actual danger. We ended last week's episode with Lucy and Desi on top of the world. The first season had established Lucille Ball as an extraordinary comedian. Their second season kicked off with the iconic Chocolate Factory episode, and included the birth of Little Ricky, timed perfectly to

coincide with the birth of Lucy and Desi's real baby, Desi Jr. Lucy and Desi had everything. They had two adorable children. They had the best show on television. They had millions of adoring fans and more money than they'd ever imagined. And in this week's episode, they damn near lose it all. First, to a threat from the outside and later to a threat from the inside. Woo, that was a long recap. I'm about to bust. I'm about to bust with excitement. You have to tell me, Christ. Not bad, right? Are we ready?

I'm very interested in this whole communism thing. I was interested from episode one when you mentioned Grandpa Fred, being a card-carian communist. Yeah. All right. What is it about it that interests you? That whole era of McCarthyism was a low point in U.S. history. Yeah. A lot of individual freedoms.

Pooped on. Were pooped on, stomped all over. It was done to make America safer, but it actually made things way worse. Yeah. So anyway, I'm interested to hear about how Lucille Ball got involved in all that. It's pretty fascinating. Okay. Here we go.

Picture it. We're entering the third season of I Love Lucy. By this point, 30 million loyal viewers tuned in every Monday to watch the show. That's not bad. Yeah. The show was such a phenomenon that reservoirs would dip during the show's commercial breaks because so many people were flushing the toilet at the same time. Is that not the weirdest thing? Mondo dukes. No. Go to the bathroom during the commercial. Something about this show's. We've got to take a dump.

Way to ruin a fun fact, Norm. I'm sorry, I'm just imagining everybody. Oh, heavens, I can't hold this. The show won multiple Emmys. Lucy was on the cover of every magazine. Lucy and Desi got endorsement deals and merch lines. There were I Love Lucy pajamas and Little Ricky dolls. Ooh.

There was, no, for the baby, not. Oh. Okay. It's a blow-up doll that's Desi Arnaz is full size. I thought Little Ricky was like a little, you know, That's enough. No, no, we're talking about a child. Thank you.

It's my I Love Lucy back massager. There was an I Love Lucy comic strip. And get this, you could buy an entire bedroom furniture set based on the one that Lucy and Ricky slept in on set. Did it come with the twin beds? No. And it had magnets on each side so you could push the beds together when you're feeling a little comfy cozy? For the bedroom set, they had like a normal bed. I'm devastated to tell you.

It wasn't two twin beds? No, because like that's not how people actually live aside from us. Hang on a second. What? There's a growing trend right now of couples with separate bedrooms. You know, that's the way royalty is. I think that's pretty sweet. What do you think of that?

I'm a big fan. I think it's really sad, but also I see why it. would be great. I get, I get, you just want to be close to the bad boy of YouTube. But, you know, sometimes maybe you fall asleep before me and I want to watch a little more TV or maybe you're doing a little snoring, snoring. You snore too, sir. Are you trying to sell me on this idea on the podcast? Well, you know, there's many nights where like maybe I can't fall asleep. I'll go to the guest bedroom and doze off. Uh-huh. I don't think it's that crazy of an idea. I actually think it's, if that's what works for people, then I think it's great.

Look at you, an open-minded ho. I'm ready to try anything. The limit is separate bedrooms. That's all I want to try. Are you ready to hear the ad copy for that bedroom set? It says, live like Lucy. You'll love it. Get it.

Oh, okay, yeah. Boy. Live like Lucy, you'll love it. Yeah. I guess it's pretty good. It's not bad. All right. I wasn't blown away by it, but...

Wow. Okay. Philip Morris, the company that had very reluctantly agreed to sponsor the show when it was first starting, was now a very enthusiastic sponsor. Oh, I bet. At the start of the third season, Philip Morris agreed to sponsor the show for two and a half more years for $8 million. Adjusted for inflation? Mm-hmm.

$95 million. Very expensive. That's a lot of money. Yeah, and more than half of it went to Lucy and Desi. Are you for real? I am for real. Oh, because they're the production company too. Yeah.

They're doing it all, baby. Are you feeling like how have I fucked up in my life? I am. Folks, if you are loving an old-timey podcast, get on that Patreon. Get on the $8 million level. We've got a $1 million tier coming up. And boy, will you be disappointed in the perks? You'll become a 1% investor in an old-timey podcast.

This show's going places, baby. Oh, yeah. Desi Lou Productions grew. They hired more staff. They produced more shows. They were an undeniable success. But Lucy didn't trust it. She kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Yeah, we talked about this last episode a little bit. But then she got into some therapy. Okay, so we sing depression. Depression. Do we now sing therapy? I like that idea. Yeah. As in, you need to go to therapy.

Well, it's almost like a little teasing we do with the song. It's like, you-hoo, therapy. Like that. So it's like, come on in. Come on in. I'll make you cry. Yeah. Let's talk about all your problems and trauma.

Therapy. Well, I'm not here to talk about therapy. I'm actually here to talk about... Better help. No, no, I'm here to talk about how she'd been afraid that the other shoe was going to drop. Yeah. And, you know, usually that's just a sad thing you're feeling, and you've got to work through it in therapy. But in this case, no, she was totally fucking right.

The other shoe did drop on a spring day in 1952. Why did it have to happen on a spring day? Right? Yeah. How about a cold, dreary winter day when you're like, oh, what a, what a crappy day? I wonder what else could happen. They lived in beautiful California, okay? They don't know shit about crappy days.

The weather's so nice in California. No, you're so happy to live in Missouri. FBI agents showed up at Lucy and Desi's door. They wanted to talk to Lucy about her relationship with the Communist Party. Oh, brother. Okay. So as you already kind of alluded to, this was an interesting time in American history. It was a bullshit time in American history. Twas cold war times, Norm.

And a lot of United States politicians were on very public and tireless hunts to find communists and get a lot of media attention for themselves in the process. But no, no, it was all to find those commies because they were going to ruin us all. in the Senate, Joseph McCarthy was convinced that communists had infiltrated the government and he was going to find him. Not to be out from Wisconsin, right? I think so. That sounds right. Boy, I hope you're not wrong. I'd hate for you to have to do a little mistakes of shame segment. Don't look it up. U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin. No mistakes here.

Research is a little lacking in this episode. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Okay, not to be outdone. The House had their very own House Committee on Un-American Activities. This was designed to find all the communists who were taking over Hollywood, Norm. Yeah, and if they saw anyone playing badminton, arrested immediately, such an un-American sport. It does feel un-American. It does.

I don't think it is from America. I think it's English sport. That's right, Norm. there were come. Oh, here we go. History Ho-Work. Where did Badminton originate? All your little militia is going to be so excited.

Oh, Norm, I found out for you, sir. Oh, I found out for you, cult leader. Oh, you look so good. A cult leader. You think you look so good in your little white robes, sir. I can't wait to watch you play volleyball later. First of all, we're not playing volleyball. No, you should definitely grow your hair out.

First of all, we're not playing volleyball. We're watching Disney movies. including the Paper Brigade, one of my favorite Disney movies as a kid. The Paper Brigade? The Paper Brigade. Did you only watch the least popular Disney movies? Actually, was that even a Disney movie? It was on the Disney Channel all the time.

Better get to the bottom of this. Don't be jealous that I connect with the fans more than you, okay? Okay, that's fair. Just because I have a militia. Just because I have a little militia called the Normies. We don't have a name yet, but that is being considered. Yeah, so that all of you Normies can gang up on the one neurodivergent gal. Boy, I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

Wow. Wow, that's cool. Hang on. Maybe you can make fun of me, say my brain doesn't work so good, huh? No, no, no. Maybe you could say, wow, why can't you be normal like us? It's a play on my name, Chris. It has nothing to do with normal people.

Yeah, no. They say that what they love about it is that, yeah, it's a play on your name, but it's also a play on how much they hate people with ADHD. Okay. We're going to have to move on. Anyhow, Norm, there were commies in Tenciltown. And now they were using the media to convince children that communism was fun and cool. Do they have any evidence that this is happening?

That's a rude question to ask, and I will ignore it. Okay. This House committee destroyed careers and destroyed lives. It sure did. In 1947, 10 writers and directors refused to testify in front of the House committee on American activities. They refused to answer that question, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? And as a result, by the way, this is in the land of the free and the home of the brave. They were imprisoned and later forced to testify, put on trial, pressured into naming names, and ultimately they all got blacklisted by the industry. They were called the Hollywood Ten, and nobody in Hollywood wanted to hire them for fear that they too would be accused of being communist. Trumbo? What? Was Trumbo in there?

Who's Trumbo? He was one of the writers. He was like a famous writer that... Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was Dumbo's cousin. Sorry. Dalton Trumbo, yeah. I'm sorry.

Just to recap from this Lucille Ball series, we have learned that you had no idea who Ginger Rogers was. But you know who this, what's his name? Dalton Trumbo. Dalton Trumbo is? Yeah, he wrote Roman Holiday, Spartacus. Oh. The only reason I know about him is because I watched the movie in 2015 with Brian Cranston. It was a good movie.

Okay. Within a few years, the list of suspected Hollywood communists had grown to include hundreds of people, including Charlie Chaplin and Dorothy Parker. It was really scary. People who were suspected of being communists or even just having communist sympathies lost work and in some cases lost their entire careers because they had the stank of communism on them. You know who they should look into. Who? Groucho Marx's brother, Karl Marx. I wonder why they didn't

I've heard rumors He's really into communism Like a huge fan Yeah I hear the Communist Party leaned heavily on his ideas And his comedy Yes Communist comedy

Worker and Parasite That's a Simpson's joke Oh it is? It is my God Let me tell you about the joke real quick Okay Krusty the clown Loses the Rights to Air

Itchy and Scratchy Okay And so instead he gets the rights to air worker and parasite. It's a Russian cat and mouse cartoon. It's very funny. It sounds wonderful. It's, it is Matt Grainings' favorite joke from The Simpsons.

Man, you're kind of a Simpsons ho. I am. All this to say, Norman, that when FBI agents showed up at Desi Lou Ranch, wanting to talk to Lucy about her relationship with the Communist Party, she was petrified. And the really scary thing was that. unlike a lot of other Hollywood cases where the government didn't have much evidence against the accused, as you were alluding to earlier, the FBI had decent evidence against Lucy. In 1936 when she was 24 years old, Lucy had registered to vote as a communist, and people had told the FBI that they'd been to Communist Party meetings at Lucille Ball's former home on Ogden Drive. Where Grandpa Fred lived for a little bit.

And in more recent years, Lucy had become a member of the Committee of the First Amendment, which was an organization that was started by a bunch of Hollywood folks to try to stop this ridiculous witch hunt. Lucy had even participated in a radio broadcast in which she'd talked about something super controversial and not even remotely American, the importance of civil liberties. Very, very, very un-American. Yeah. Disgusts me. It disgusts us all. Thank you, Norm. For the record, like everyone was in that organization, including Judy Garland and Humphrey Bogart. But still, this was bad. Lucy freaked out. And she explained to the agents that, yes, her beloved grandfather, Fred Hunt, had been a member of the Communist Party. In fact, he'd been a very enthusiastic supporter of the Communist Party. And frankly, he'd been kind of pushy about it.

So even though she'd personally never really given a second thought to politics, yes, she had registered as a communist to make her grandfather happy. And yeah, okay, sure. Her grandfather probably did host some Communist Party meetings at their home, but she hadn't been in attendance. At that point in her career, she'd spent like every waking hour at the studio. She often didn't come home till midnight. She certainly didn't have time to attend communism. parties. Are you buying this? What do you mean? Do you believe Lucy when she says that? I do believe that she never attended these parties because I think that if she had, if anybody had said that she had, that would have been a big thing. But in those days, yeah, she was a contract player at, you know, I think RKO at that time. Yeah, she... I guess I'm more... I'm wondering more...

Do you think she registered as a communist just to, oh, it's just to make my grandpa happy? Or do you think she actually believed in the Communist Party ideas? I will answer this honestly. Okay. Which is, I don't give a fuck. Whoa. Well, to me, it's a little like if someone came, if the FBI came to the door and they were like, Norman, did you wear yellow pants 10 years ago? I'd say, yes, I admit it.

No, and you say. It was a horrible fashion choice. Arrest me. And let's say you deny it. And someone comes to me, and they're like, what do you think? What do you think? Is Norm lying? My answer is, I don't care.

Because who gives a shit if he wore yellow pants? And I feel the same way about this. She's an American. You're allowed to have your own thoughts. You're allowed. if it's on the, you know, registration card and you can register for it, why is that so bad that someone did that? Yeah, I'm not, I'm not questioning if this is right or wrong. I'm just curious if, do you think Lucille Ball actually believed in communist party ideas?

Or do you think she was just like, oh, yeah, I was just going along with whatever grandpa wanted? Knowing how much she liked to take care of people and how much she looked out for. other people, specifically financially. I can see it. I can see it. But also, and we're going to get into this in a minute, she voted in 1936 in the primary, but not in the general election. And so to me, that does say, like, okay, well, maybe you don't super care about politics if you're not voting regularly, you know? What do you think? Oh, I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. Obviously, it would make sense to be very afraid if the FBI shows up at your door asking about the Communist Party and the current political atmosphere right now about communism.

Sure. And to just deny ever having been a communist, even though the Communist Party was a legit political party, although it was small during that time. Sure. There was an American Nazi party as well during that time. Good God. Yeah. That's a fun fact, isn't it? Have you ever seen the photo from Madison Square Garden where they had their alley?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was an American Nazi party. Oh, well, never mind. I take back my thing about it. It's just a thought. Don't worry about it. It's just a thought. Exterminating all the Jews in the world.

I'm just thinking about it. Oh, God. Okay. Yeah. I hear how it sounds. Now, boy, maybe you do need to do your 67 part series on World War II just to educate me, my ignorant ass. You still not sure what World War II is about? I'll let you know.

It's about states' rights. Yeah. That's a good answer. Thank you. World War II is about state rights, buddy. Don't tell me any different. So she said, no, I didn't attend any of these meetings. And as for that radio broadcast, she said she'd only done it because her union had asked her to.

She told the men repeatedly that she was not a communist. In fact, she was barely political at all. She didn't give a shit about politics. And as I told you, Lucy's voting record kind of backed up her story. She'd voted in the 1936 primary, but not in the general election. You're talking about presidential? I assume that's presidential, yeah. Okay.

What Lucy said that day satisfied the FBI. B.I. agents. They told her that she seemed politically immature, and they went on their way. Oh, that's sweet. I do think if she was lying to them, what a great time period for it, right? What do you mean? Well, you think about sexism. Let's talk about sexism. Let's talk about patriarchy. Let's talk about all the bad boys are doing bad things to the ladies. Let's talk. Let's talk about sexism. Let's talk about sexism. Honestly, you think about 1936, okay, women had had the right to vote for 16 whole years at that point.

Incredible. It's still a fairly new thing, and she's telling them, my grandfather, who raised me, said, do this thing. And I just, I did that thing. Oh, so big and scary. I don't know anything about politics. I'm not political at all. I just wanted to make, you know, my grandfather happy. Yeah, that's a good point.

The fact that they called her politically immature just stands out to me. And it does make me wonder if she gave him a bit of an act. Yeah, I would leave my way. Which, again, I fully support. Fully support. Oh, yeah. You tell those fuckers whatever you need to tell them. That whole communist witch hunt thing is just horrible.

It's so stupid. Tell them you were on your period that day and you went crazy. Cuckoo bananas. That was just wild. You have to excuse me. And they're like, the FBI agents get all uncomfortable and just leave. Oh, well, thank you. Irby, take enough now.

Oh, thanks, man. It seemed like maybe this issue was over, but of course it wasn't. It's not over. What on earth is that? I can't remember. It's some stupid. It's from a goofy movie, isn't it? It's some really stupid.

rock song from like the 2000s. It's not over. Hang on. Oh, wait. Oh, da-da-na-na-na-na-na-da-da-da. Oh, no. It's not over. Yeah, and that song was playing as this happened.

The FBI agent came to the window and sang it. And boy, was it spooky. Later that year, Lucy was asked to testify in front of the House committee on un-American activities. Oh, boy. She was assured that this was just a formality. She was also assured that none of her testimony would be made public. This would be a secret session.

Hmm. So on September 4th, 1953, Lucy went in to give her testimony. But as soon as she got a look at Congressman Donald Jackson, Lucy had a weird feeling. Who's Donald Jackson? He was a congressman and he was wearing a pale. blue shirt. In those days, men wore white button downs. It was only when they were going to appear on camera that they'd wear pale blue because the pale blue read more flattering in black and white. Oh, so it was still a button up. Yeah. I just thought he was wearing like a t-shirt.

No. Like a pale blue t-shirt. No, no, no. Nothing but a t-shirt on. He's like, yeah, this is from American apparel. Just picked it up. Breathable. Try blend. Uh-huh. And she was was like, oh, well, American Apparel for the Un-American Activities Committee. That's right. It all makes sense, Norm. Now you're thinking about these jokes I'm making. Yes. That was a thinker.

Yeah. Lucy knew that a lot of these politicians were making careers out of taking down celebrities. So maybe that's what this was all about. She couldn't be sure. But she decided to tell her whole story from the beginning in case anything leaked to the press. and she even threw in a little humor. When asked why she'd registered for the Communist Party, she said, quote,

in those days, that was not a big terrible thing to do. It was almost as terrible to be a Republican in those days. Hey, the committee members thought that was kind of cute. Oh, sure. I'm sure they had a nice little laugh. Ultimately, at the end of her testimony, the committee gave her some good news. She'd been cleared. and they reiterated that her testimony would be kept secret.

Yeah, right. Yeah, they were lying. Yeah. A few days later, Lucy was at home with her children, sitting in a rocking chair, when she heard something alarming on the radio. It was Daughtry. What? Oh, is that the name of that?

It's Daughter. She was like, oh, this is terrible. Sorry. You know what? Daughtry was a big fan. of the podcast until now. Sorry, Daughtry. We're just having a little fun.

You know what? Dotry is going to be a member of my army. It's Kristen Caruso and Daughtry. Is this your new man that you find at Funky Town? Maybe. Maybe. I just know that Daughtry is going to be like, I think it's really messed up that your husband and so many people want to make fun of you

for not being neurotypical. And I'll say, yeah, it's really messed up. Okay. That they are all... Now, calm down. You know, uniting around that terrible thing. Sorry for not being normie typical. Thank you.

She was listening to this guy named Walter Winchell. Walter had a weekly news show that was kind of newsy but gossipy. That name rings a bell. It should. I mean, it's, I'm going to do an impression of him. And the minute you hear me, you're going to be like, oh, this guy. Okay. So this show was super.

popular, 20 million people listened to Walter Winchell every Sunday. And that Sunday, Walter Winchell said, The top television comedian has been confronted with her membership in the Communist Party. He was one of these weirdos, those old-timey weirdos who did the old-timey radio voice. Yeah. Walter didn't use Lucy's name. But, come on, everyone knew that she was the top television comedian. It's like saying, a non-threatening boy who has a history comedy podcast has been accused of wearing yellow pants 10 years ago.

They'd know exactly who they're talking about. They'd be like, oh my God, that's Kristen Caruso's husband. And I'd say, I assure you, I was just cosplaying as bananas in pajamas. That is why I had the yellow pants on. I'm a totally normal guy who cosplays as a banana in pajamas. Yeah. No, I don't have children. Why do you ask?

Just enjoy the show. Bananas and pajamas are coming down the stairs. Bananas and pajamas are chasing teddy bears. Wow. Certainly do know that show. Anyway. This strawberry wild crystal light pack has got me wild. Okay, everyone, Norman is a sensitive boy.

Okay. You decided when we started podcasting, you needed to have a beverage. They had a little zing to it, you know, because we podcast for quite a while. Yeah. So you got some energy drinks. Yeah. Decided, whoa, that's too much. It was too much.

I about had a, in John Brown part three, I about had a panic attack while telling the story. Are you serious? Yeah. Wow. Okay. I did notice you stopped cold turkey on those energy drinks. Anyone who's had a panic attack, you feel that feeling of dread like wash over you. Yeah.

And you start, like, sweating and, like, I felt that real hard. And after then, I was like, okay, chill on the energy drinks. So, and then you tried Coke Zero. Yeah, but it made me burp way too much. Uh-huh. So now this hardcore, non-threatening boy is drinking wild strawberry crystal light, because that's the crystal light with a little caffeine in it. Oh, just a little caffeine in it.

Mm, it's tasty. So you're probably thinking, gosh, Norm seems really hyper right now. It's because of the crystal light. It's the most non-threatening drink I could ever have a crystal light packet. So Desi was out playing cards when he got the news, and he immediately rushed home. Lucy and Desi were sick with worry about what the hell was going to happen to them. Oh, yeah. I mean, the show, too.

Oh, this would be terrifying. Cancel culture right here. Oh, my God. This is OG cancel culture. McCarthyism. Except for this is actual cancellations, as opposed to today's cancel culture, which is like, then you get a Netflix special. Yeah. Anyhow.

Maybe we should get canceled. Then we'll be on Netflix. Well, I think you will be canceled because you make fun of me for not having a normal brain, you say, every morning. Uh-huh. Listen, we have plenty of ammunition to use against you, Kristen. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, that's- Keep it up. Probably true.

Keep it up. We'll launch a surprise attack one day. Oh, my God. I won't see it coming. Cool. Anyhow, can I tell my story now? Yeah, yeah. They showed up at work the next day, and it was like someone had died.

The cast and crew had all heard the news. They were all certain that this was the end. Oh, yeah, I bet there's some doom and gloom. Oh, absolutely. You're so happy because you're on the number one show, but then this comes out and you just know it's over. And who knows, maybe you're going to get pulled in for questioning. Why are you smiling at me right now? Sorry, I keep thinking about Daughtry.

It's not over. I am talking to you about this very serious thing. I know. But it's not over. It's not over. Yeah, that's what they were thinking. They're thinking it's not over because they will also bring. me into this stupid fucking committee,

a guy will be wearing a pale blue t-shirt, no pants because it wasn't mentioned. And then I'm going to be in trouble. They talked about canceling the show that week, but Desi insisted that they shouldn't. Hell no. Oh, listen to you. What?

You're seeming like a threatening boy. So Desi's logic, and let me hear if you agree with this, he was like, if we cancel the live taping, it's going to look like an admission of guilt. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Desi was adamant that Lucy had nothing to feel guilty about. She'd done nothing wrong. So, as weird as it was, everyone went through the motions.

That week, they were making the second episode of season three. The episode would be titled, The Girls Go Into Business. Okay, kind of ironically, I think. This episode was about Lucy and Ethel buying a dress shop, barely making any money, and then getting swindled by some dude who bought the business and turned around and sold it for a massive profit. So kind of a critique of capitalism almost. Oopsies. That wasn't on purpose, though, right?

Of course it wasn't on purpose. Oh my God. No, no, it was not on purpose. But, you know, kind of too late for a rewrite. Sure. They had the table read on Tuesday, followed by a few long days of rehearsals. Lucy was a wreck. She could barely eat.

but she threw herself into the job. And, you know, slowly the days crept by and Thursday came and went and nothing became of Walter Winchell's news report. Walter had never mentioned her by name. And no other media outlets had picked up the story, so maybe she was in the clear. That's interesting, considering everyone on set kind of knew what was going on. It's weird that no other media outlet reported on. that or even like confronted her like the news weren't standing outside and be like is this report about you like that's interesting i think there's a couple things happening one that's a

very serious accusation and if you're a legitimate news outlet so you're not into the gossip you're only reporting the facts yeah maybe you look into it a bit but i also wonder it's funny i'm trying myself back in my reporter days. And if I felt like there was some weird rumor going around about somebody and it was kind of one of those things where even if it's true, I don't think we should be judging, you know, maybe I, maybe I wouldn't want to ask them about it. I'd find other things to report on. I'm not sure. But wasn't like accusations of communism, like the big news story of the day, especially in the political landscape.

So I feel like any even credible news organizations would go after a story like that. Well, and they did. It took them a couple days. Okay. Then came Friday morning, the day of the live taping. That morning, Lucy and Desi were in bed at home when Desi woke up to find a photographer outside their bedroom window. What the?

You would lose your mind. This is when... Holy shit. This is when you would become a threatening boy. Desi was livid. He got up, threw on a bathrobe, ran outside, and grabbed the guy by the neck. Yeah, I would have been out there in my yellow pants right away. And he'd be like, those are cute banana pajamas, and you'd be like, shut up!

Shut that guy. But thank you. Get off my property. Yeah, so Desi did tell him to get off his property. and as Desi was like throwing that guy off the property, he found other reporters lingering around and he told them to get off the property. Not very nicely, and I don't blame him.

Then he came inside the house, called up their editor and let that guy have it. Yeah. When Lucy and Desi arrived at the studio later that morning, they found it surrounded by reporters. There they are. I was wondering where they were. The Los Angeles Herald Express

had just published, a special edition. Their headline ran four inches high in bright red ink. It read Lucille Ball, a red. Wow. Yeah. Lucy couldn't handle it. It was her greatest fear realized. The fear that everything in her life would be going perfectly and it would all be taken away through no fault of her own. And in the face of that threat, Lucy crumbled. She couldn't stop shaking. She couldn't stop crying. Her head pounded.

Everything she'd worked for, everything she'd built was about to vanish. But Desi had those same fears. He'd been 16 years old, living a very privileged life in Cuba when, in an instant his family lost everything. He went from being the only son. of a wealthy mayor to cleaning bird cages and sleeping in a warehouse. Canary consignment shop. The revolution, in his mind, had led to his parents' divorce. It had ended his happy childhood.

Desi had been through that once, and he wasn't going to go through that again. 16-year-old Desi had done what he needed to do to survive. But this Desi, this Desi had power. He was the president of Desi. Desi Lou Studios. He was starring in the number one show on television. He had a network of powerful friends. And so, even though he had every reason to be afraid, and even though his wife was crumbling, Desi decided that the best way out of this was through it. People were throwing out accusations? Fuck that. He'd handle each accusation head on. He would protect his wife and

everything they'd built together, and he'd use every skill he'd. had to make that happen. And that's how Desi, the master negotiator, the master businessman, took charge. He hired a doctor to be on set in case Lucy collapsed. He hired extra security in case any nut job showed up wanting to harm her. By this point, he knew Jay Edgar Hoover because they both like to hang out at the local racetrack. So, yes, I mean, it's true. Desi called him up and he was like, Hey, friend, do you guys have anything new on my wife? And Jay Edgar Hoover was like, no, we don't. Then Desi called CBS.

He called Philip Morris. He'd been waiting all week for someone from either organization to call and offer some kind of support. Yeah. But they hadn't. They'd been playing the cowardly, let's see how this plays out game. Mm-hmm. Fence sitting. Mm-hmm.

So Desi did the opposite. He came on strong. He told the head of Philip Morris, hey, if you want to pull out of the show, that's fine. Go ahead. But if you do, we will take that half-hour TV slot and use it to tell our side of the story. We'll use it to clear Lucy's name. Oh, and don't worry, we'll pay for it. Ooh.

And the head of Philip Morris was like, what? What? Oh, no, no, no. You have our support. Don't worry about it. Desi's got some energy here that I'm digging. Next up, Desi called Congressman. Donald Jackson. Donald was a member of the House Committee on Un-American Activities. And Desi was like,

hey, my wife has been cleared of wrongdoing, right? And Donald said, yeah. And Desi said, okay, cool. So you're going to hold a press conference and you're going to tell that to the media. And you're going to do it like right now because we're taping the show in two hours. And Donald said, okay. He did? Uh, yeah. Why? Um, What incentive or motivation would a politician have to hold an emergency press conference over Lucille Ball? So I think a couple things. I think one is, again, Desi had incredible political prowess. He had friends in very high places and he had a ton of money. And I bet you he could be pretty intimidating when he wanted to be.

we know he could be very persuasive. And so I'm not sure what was said, but if you're a politician representing this district, you probably don't want to piss off Hollywood, right? Did he represent Hollywood? I am assuming he represented the area where they lived. Hmm, okay. I didn't know that. That makes more sense then. But even then, we're talking about money here.

Philip Morris is on Desi and Lucy's side. CBS, Desi and Lucy's side. Jay Edgar Hoover, on Desi and Lucy's side. And again, Lucy had been cleared. Yeah. So why not do a little news conference? Why not bust out that pale blue top you bought a while ago? The more you describe Donald Jackson, I just think of Donald Duck.

Of course you do. Blue shirt, no pants. Does he have a little sailor hat on? He could have. You know, Donald didn't wear that all the time, right? So I'm sure Donald, the congressman, were that on a Sunday? Maybe he just cosplayed as Donald Duck. Donald read a statement to the media saying that there was no evidence that Lucille Ball is or ever was a communist.

Well, there's evidence she was a communist. No, no, no. She just did that to make her grandfather happy. She was never a communist. But technically she was a communist. She registered with the Communist Party. She was just a silly woman, okay? Okay.

What Desi was able to pull off that day is incredible. It's a testament to the power of what he and Lucy built. It was a testament to his courage. And to, I mean, it's funny because, you know, if they'd stayed in Cuba, he was set up to be the next mayor, basically. And you think, gosh, he would have been a hell of a mayor. If he could pull this off. Well, maybe he became the man he was with what he went through in America. so maybe he wouldn't have been as a strong leader.

Maybe going through that adversity made him who he was. I think it can help. Well, it definitely helps. But also, like, you're growing up in a political family, you've got to kind of learn the ropes a little bit before it's all ripped out from under you. Yeah, but you also mentioned that he lived a very privileged life in Cuba. Yeah.

But so, like, going through adversity will make you a stronger person. And would he have gone through that kind of adversity if he had his nice, cozy life in Cuba? Yeah, no. Yeah. Good point. So you subscribe to the Kelly Clarkson model. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That's right.

Stand a little taller. Big fan of Kelly. Sure. We're talking about a lot of American Idol people in this episode. Wait, was that other guy? Daughtry was on American Idol. Really? Yeah, he was a finalist.

Oh, wow. Okay. Speaking of Kelly Clarkson. Yeah? On our next watch party, we're going to do bad movie trailers. Oh, from Justin to Kelly. From Justin to Kelly. Everybody, if you want to participate in these watch parties, it's the $7 or $10 level on Patreon, get in there.

I'm so excited. Oh, my gosh. So what I think we're going to do is I'm going to pick three bad movies. You're going to pick three bad movies. Okay. We'll watch the trailers and then we'll do requests for. from viewers that are watching. I love this.

Yeah. So I'm sure from Justin to Kelly will come on. How could it not, darling? Yeah. Okay, so Desi just pulled this off. But that's not to say that the cast and crew of the I Love Lucy show went into the taping that night feeling like they were in the clear. Yeah, probably not.

Well, especially in front of a live studio audience. Right. And the audience has read all this stuff too, right? Yeah, you would have to assume they've heard the rumors. And what are the chances that, like, they are so up to date in this time period that they now know that, oh, Donald Jackson. Yeah, no. Gave a news conference two hours earlier. Yeah.

That little newspaper boy. Extra, extra. He wasn't there. I just spat. He only works 5 a.m. to 7 a.m. That's right. And he's on the corner of sunset and grand or, I don't know, some L.A. corner, whatever. Keep going.

Lucy was terrified that the audience would boo her. That would be my biggest fear with all the shit going on. Yeah, because there's like 300 people. A live studio audience. Yeah, people booing you, trolling you. Yeah, that'd be my biggest fear. Yeah, she was shaking, still convinced that she'd lost everything. But, you know, then it was Showtime.

The studio filled with people all there to see the TV. taping. And just as he always did, Desi went out to greet the crowd. Normally, he used the time to tell jokes and introduce the cast, but this time was different. He didn't want to tell jokes. He wanted to confront the issue. Tell the truth. Flip the lights on. That night, he told the crowd, Lucy has never been a communist. Not now and never will be. He said, I was kicked out of Cuba because of communism. We despise everything about it. He implored the crowd to not believe everything they read in the papers. He told them that Lucy was as American as President Eisenhower. And the crowd, the crowd that Lucy was so afraid to face, cheered, and cheered and cheered. Desi introduced the cast, saving the best for last.

And he said something that is now iconic. He said, and now, I want you to meet my favorite wife, my favorite Redhead. In fact, that's the only thing read about her, and even that is not legitimate. Lucille Ball! That's good. Yeah. Yeah. And the crowd roared with applause.

Lucy came out, scared and uneasy at first, but they applauded even harder. They gave her a standing ovation. The taping that followed was, unlike any other, It was electric. Lucy hadn't believed that people would still support her, but they did. She'd made them laugh. She'd brought them joy. There was an intimacy that they felt with her. They didn't want her to be destroyed. They loved her. Okay, here's the amusing thing to me. Okay. The studio audience was so supportive of her and was rooting so hard for her that it was actually a little over the top. That night when Lucy Ricardo said anything, they rolled with laughter. They laughed so hard at everything she said and did that it actually sounded really weird in the edit. Yeah.

So the editors had to remove the audience's actual reaction and put in canned laughter because otherwise it would have just sounded bizarre. Desi hyped him up too much. He was like Flav or Flav. He was exactly like that. Yeah. I think it's so sweet. It is. And actually, I remember this scene from the movie being the Ricardo's.

Yeah. They recreate that scene. It's like the end of the movie and it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you just, you see how scared she is and how relieved isn't even the word. Just stunned and overwhelmed and grateful by people being so gracious. Yeah.

After the show was over, Lucille Ball was so grateful that she turned to the audience and she dropped the high-pitched voice that she used to play Lucy Ricardo. And she said in her real, much lower voice, God bless you for being so kind. And then she went back to her dressing room and sobbed. I didn't know she did a fake voice on I Love Lucy. She does kind of a happy, you know, peppy voice for Lucy Ricardo. But when you hear her voice, and part of it is in later stuff with her, you know, the cigarettes have really taken their toll. She also, I think she had some kind of surgery or something that messed with her voice, too. I might be wrong on that.

But yeah, her real voice was much deeper. Yeah, well, I've seen social media clips of her older. Yeah. Her voice is very. Yeah, gravely. Yeah. I know this is a weird un- What do you think if I did the podcast like this?

you know, just to make everybody happy. People would be thrilled. People would love it. They'd be like, have you heard this? It's the number one show. I thought I loved Joe Rogan, but I actually love Norman Caruso. Check this out.

September 1st, 1939. Hitler invades Poland. You know, it doesn't sound so scary when you do it in that voice. I'll tell you that. Exactly. Marvin the Martian is telling me about Hitler. Oh, I am very angry.

Yeah, that Marvin's voice wasn't that high. Sorry, you're incorrect. Wow, okay. I apologize. I should have known that you would issue an immediate correction on that. Folks, get in that discord. Get in the militia chat. We have to plan and prepare for the future.

What do you think of all this? First of all, about six years ago, I had a major episode of anxiety. And one of, one phrase that I learned during that whole thing was, when you're going through hell, keep going. Yeah. Or there's only one way out of hell and that's through it. Yeah. And so what Desi did there is the best thing you can do.

Mm-hmm. And so I admire that, that he took the reins and was just. like let's just confront this thing head on, this hellish thing we're going through, and let's just deal with it. Yeah, I should not admit this. But, you know, a while back I read some of those really dushy, like, books that the alpha males love about power and all that stuff and kind of how to get through a hard time. And one of the things that they say sometimes is when you are weak, act strong, when you are weak, act strong, your strong act weak. And that's what I feel like he's doing here.

This is a time where they've got this accusation and you really are vulnerable. People might take everything away from you. But instead of cowering, Desi like went full force at this with everything he had. But would you characterize him as weak in that moment? and he was only acting strong? Yeah. In this time period, they have this much evidence against your wife. Everything, this show is called I Love Lucy.

Everything you've built, everything you've got is around her. They have so much more evidence on her than they did on anyone else that they took down and whose careers they ruined forever. I just don't agree that he was in a weak position. Obviously, the head of Desi Lou, someone who's starring on the number one show, you know, they're never probably going to be weak in the way that we might consider someone weak. But at this point, when you're being accused of that by very powerful forces, you're not at your strongest. I think he was strong and he acted strong. Well, you certainly showed me, didn't you?

I just disagree. That's all. I disagree with your assessment. All right. Very good. But we can both agree that, like, he kicked ass during that. Mm-hmm. Well, and I also appreciate that he saw how tough this was for Lucy. Yeah. I mean, clearly she was going through some anxiety stuff. When you're shaking, when you're crying uncontrollably, can't focus, you're not eating.

He saw that and said, I'm here. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, to guide us through this. I think it's... And that's being strong. Yeah. I think that's one of those things where, yes, we're both going through this. Obviously, her more than him. But it's that dynamic of we can't both have the same reaction.

If, you know, okay, she's having this reaction, I have to go the total opposite. And yeah, I think what he did here was incredible. He was very protective. He was very protective. I'm very protective of you, Kristen. You've just talked about how you want to start a militia to take me down, sir. It's all in good fun. But for real, the other day, I compared myself to Dumbo's mom.

If somebody has wronged Kristen, I become Dumbo's mom and I start thrashing around. Very protective. And it's funny because as Kristen was like, what are you talking about? Yeah, I had no idea what you were talking about. And so I played her the clip of when those boys were teasing Dumbo and pulling on his ears. And Dumbo's mom went fucking bananas. First of all, I hate that I'm Dumbo in the situation. I hate that I have the ears for this role.

But no, it was funny because you've talked about feeling protective. And I've been thinking like, that's sweet. That's sweet. And I've thought of it, frankly, as kind of a romantic thing. Yeah, sure. When you were expanding on it and you said you felt like Dumbo's mom and you pulled up a clip of an angry elephant wearing a bonnet. Dumbo's mom has a kick ass out there and I would wear it for you, okay? Thank you.

Thank you. That's like one of the most heartbreaking Disney movie moments. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. When they lock Dumbo's mom up. Those older Disney movies Well I shouldn't say older They didn't pull any punches

They fucking threw it all out there No there are to this day There are a lot of really sad movies Have you seen Coco yet? I haven't seen Coco Sobbed my way through Coco Fucking Coco Yeah

God damn it We're all gonna die Is the lesson there And you hope that the kids remember you God damn But nothing beats Dumbo We can all agree to that Fox and the Hound's pretty sad

Oh, God. Okay. You know what? Get in that Discord chat, folks. $5 tier. We can talk about sad Disney movies. We can talk about... We all just cry and cry together. We can talk about how you, too, can find your own Dumbo's mom in your life. Yeah. Free History Hohs out there that are still single. You need to find somebody that's going to treat you like Dumbo's mom.

No, I think Dumbo's mom is a state of mind, truthfully. I think sometimes in a relationship. ship, your Dumbo and sometimes your Dumbo's mom. And you can put that on a poster. All right. Shall we continue? Lucy had that moment of feeling that incredible relief and surprise that the audience had supported her. And a few days later, Walter Winchell reported that Lucille Ball had been cleared of the communism accusation. He was such a- He's such a douche about it. He was like, oh, and anyone should be ashamed that.

this was even brought. And it's like, dude, you're the one who brought it up. Asshole. Yeah, really. That experience shook Lucy. She never voted again for the rest of her life. Damn it. She's like, it's not worth it. You see the effects of McCarthyism? Yeah. Fearing your government. Uh-huh. Stomping on your individual liberties. Removing you from the political system, losing faith in it. Wow. I didn't expect you to get so soapboxy. Sorry. I like it.

No, it's awful. It's a horrible thing. It's terrible. I didn't write this. And you know what else was horrible in U.S. history? Slavery. You know, someone mentioned that on the last episode, we didn't mention slavery. I know.

I saw the comment. I felt so happy. I saw the comment and I frantically, what? And I listened to the episode again and I was flipping through pages trying to figure out when we mentioned. slayering in the script and we never did. Yeah. Sorry, Norm. The streak is broken. Fuck. Well, the streak is back on. Oh, great. What was I saying? I was going to say, oh!

Okay, I didn't write this part down. But you're talking about, you know, that long-lasting fear of your government. The long-term effects, yeah. Okay. In the Turner Classic Movies podcast series that they did on this, this was so fascinating. They got the FBI file that they had on Lucille Ball. Yep. They had entries as recent as 1971. Oh, I believe it. That's fucking nuts.

Yeah. Unfortunately, the file was so redacted, they couldn't really tell you, like, what the hell they were trying to get on her. But, I mean, no wonder she never voted again. Yeah. In, I think, 2014, Barack Obama released, like, tons of old FBI documents from that era. Okay. So, yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff. Man, future topic.

McCarthyism. Oh, yeah, McCarthyism. Do you know why McCarthyism ended? Why? Because he started investigating the military. And that's when people said, hold up, wait a minute. Really? Yep.

When he started going after the military. You go after the wrong people. Yep. And that's when Americans were like, how dare you? Investigating the people that fight for our freedom. I mean, that'll do it. Well, I think that was a factor here, too, because like I said, they had more on Lucille Ball than they had on a lot of the other people. Yeah.

But people loved Lucille Ball. They didn't want her to be a communist. They didn't want her show to be taken off the air. So I think that's a huge factor here is like, okay, you can go after so-and-so, you can go after this other person, you can go after some writer whose name we don't know. know, but you're going to go after Lucille Ball? I don't think so. That's me talking to you, bud. It's like if people went after, trying to think of a modern equivalent.

Hulk Hogan. We wouldn't stand for it. Hulk Hogan's done a lot of bad shit, okay? Brother. Hmm. Melissa McCarthy. See, I don't. You can't go after Melissa McCarthy.

That's fair. I honestly don't think, though, We're living in this era where so many people can be famous. Yeah, look at us. Look at us. We're not famous, folks. They know. They know we're not famous.

I don't have to tell you that. Literally, in last week's episode, we talked about how we no longer have a shower because our shower doesn't work, so we're like tubbing it in the bathtub. Update on the garbage bags, it did not work. Yeah, so no one's like, these two are famous. No. No, what I'm saying is like this was an era of appointment television. There were only but so many famous people.

It was a much more exclusive club, is what you're saying. Yes. Whereas today there are more avenues to become well known. Yeah. And so I agree with that. I think it's harder to reach that level of celebrity. Yeah. Because the pool is so much.

much bigger now. I feel like it'll probably never be possible to reach that level again. Like that's just such a unique level to be at, to be known for playing a character that's deeply lovable. Like Caroline in the City. I spat again. I'm so sorry. Do you watch Caroline in the City? I mean, I think I did, yeah. Yeah. It was okay. Yeah. She's like a cartoonist or something. I'm so glad you brought it up though. Every now and then this shit that comes out of your mouth. Nothing will top when... I don't know how I remember these things or think of these things.

Nothing will top how romantic and sweet I was feeling towards you when you were talking about feeling protective of me and then you mentioned Dumbo's mom. That was a real spit-take moment for me. You just spat your coffee. Yeah, like an elephant's trunk. Okay, we've just covered that whole communist thing. And I love that story because I think it shows Desi at his best. I mean, for the first time, I'm like, hell yeah, Desi, good job.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm like proud of Desi. Yeah. And I hate this episode of this podcast because we're also going to see Desi at his worst. Man, well, I thought I already saw his worst in earlier episodes. Is it going to get even worse? Yeah. Oh, it is.

I've mentioned in previous episodes that Desi's vices were drinking, gambling, and cheating on his wife. And I think that he's like a lot of people in that he was so good at defending Lucy and everything they'd built when they were under a direct immediate threat from the outside. But he wasn't good at protecting Lucy and everything they'd built from himself. The following year, I Love Lucy continued to be a huge hit. Desi Lou continued to expand, and that put a lot of pressure on Lucy and Desi. But I think it's fair to say that Desi took on a lot more of that pressure, because as the business expanded, his role on the show stayed the same. And he was a guy who couldn't say no to a challenge. He couldn't resist the idea of becoming bigger and better. And so he took on all of these

additional challenges and projects and stresses, but he couldn't yet ask himself, do I have a problem with alcohol? Do I have a problem with gambling? Why do I feel the need to keep hooking up with other women? Oh, so he was still cheating. Oh, of course. Oh, yes. That never stopped. Really? Even during when they had their kids and they were doing the show? Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Well, fuck, that sucks. It does. It does suck.

And as the pressures mounted, Desi leaned even harder into his vices. The spotlight was on him, and it was on their marriage like never before. And that made things really uncomfortable for the cast and crew at I Love Lucy and for everyone who worked at Desi Lou. One of the things that I mentioned in the last episode

was Desi's ability to hire really good people and get out of their way. Yeah. So when he decided to hire a VP in charge of production, he hired an executive from CBS, a guy named Martin Leeds. Truth be told, Martin could be a bit of an ass. But he was very effective and pretty good at sniffing out problems. And one of the first problems he saw was Lucy and Desi's marriage. Martin thought it was a bad sign that Lucy and Desi spent weekends apart.

Hmm. He thought it was a bad sign that they were. They had separate finances, which I disagree. But anyway, Martin later said, when you got near that marriage, you could smell hell. So he's coming in there like Gordon Ramsey in kitchen nightmares. That's exactly what's happening. Yes. Interesting.

They should have made that a show. And for some reason, in the British version of the show, he takes his top off. We still don't know why. Martin, get out of here. That is like my favorite part of the British version of Kitchen Nightmares. Is Gordon always taking his shirt off on camera? Always show Gordon changing into his little chef coat. You know he demanded that.

Oh yeah. And then he did it again when he did the Hotel Hell show. He kind of brought it back. Uh-huh. Where it would show him like showering. What? Yeah, you see his little booty cheeks in a few episodes. This man.

It's too much. Yeah. Could I get back to this? Is that all right with you? You know what we probably should. Let's do it. Lucy and Desi had problems. But in late 1953, those problems were still kind of under control and still not known by the general public.

So that December, Martin convinced Lucy and Desi to sign an agreement in which one of them could end their business partnership by offering to buy out the other. A buyout agreement? Yeah. because he saw this heading towards a cliff and so he was like this could be bad we should have like an exit strategy is that what is that the whole idea yeah in my opinion what martin did here i don't know what they were paying him but it wasn't enough this was brilliant that he had them sign this agreement Lucy and Desi were becoming very wealthy, very powerful. A lot of people depended on them for work. And he must have sensed that if their marriage were to end or even just get really, really bad, there could be hell to pay. One could refuse to sell.

One could hold the other person's dreams hostage out of, you know, spite or bitterness, you know, whatever. There could be threats to end the business entirely because, One of them wanted out. But now, with that signed agreement, there was a way out if need be. Yeah, that is a good idea. Yeah. So if their, like, personal relationship blows up, it doesn't affect all of these people working for the production company. I mean, I think there's no way for it to not affect everyone.

But it can keep going. But there's a way, there's a way for one of them to leave. there's a way for one of them to take over. Yeah. If that's what has to happen. Do you know what the, what were the terms of the buyout agreement, do you know? I can tell you later, not on this episode. Oh, okay.

Foreshadowing. So I mentioned that, but, you know, for now, things are great. Deals are pouring in, and all of a sudden, MGM comes knocking. Can't you hear me knocking on my window? Did that song come from American Idol? Because if it didn't, I don't want to hear it. I think it's Rolling Stones. Okay, very good.

MGM wanted Lucy and Desi to star in a romantic comedy together called The Long, Long, trailer. Norm, you love a romantic comedy. I do love romantic comedies. Yep. Ask me about romantic comedies. Specifically about Hitch, his favorite. Okay, I do like Hitch. You do love Hitch.

I like 27 dresses. Uh-huh. Honestly, I don't know. I mean, you really love all. I can't think of a bad romantic comedy. They're all good. Yep. So this movie is about a couple who buys a travel trailer and goes across the country.

It's so funny researching this. I was like, oh my gosh, because I remember watching this at my grandma's house when I was a kid. Really? Yeah. And I loved it because in this scene that's in my head, Desi's driving and Lucy's in the travel trailer and she's trying to make them a meal in the travel trailer while they drive. And of course it's just a mess. Chaotic, yeah.

And I have been, not that I've looked that hard for it, but over the years I've been like, man, I wonder if that I Love Lucy episode's going to come on. I wonder if I can find it. And okay, I was never going to find it because it's a movie. It's not an I love Lucy episode. Yes. So MGM was desperate to get Lucy and Desi for this movie. Because Lucy and Desi were the comedy couple. People were obsessed with them. MGM paid them $250,000 to do this movie.

Inflation? $2.9 million. Very expensive. That was a lot of money. It was allegedly the biggest deal in MGM's history. In fact, it was so much money that MGM was a little nervous about it. These were the days when movie studios were still really weird about TV. Yeah.

And some of the studio execs feared that no one would go see a movie with Lucy and Desi in it because they could just sit at home and watch Lucy and Desi on TV for free. Yeah, but it's a totally different whatever. Still, I mean, it's one of those things. This is all so new. Sure. Yeah. Desi heard those concerns and was like, give me a break. And since he was a bit of a gambler, he made a bet with the VP of MGM.

He was like, okay, what's MGM's highest grossing film of all time? And the guy was like, Father of the Bride. Classic. So Desi said. Which they've remade many times? Yes. Yeah. So Desi said, okay, our movie will do better than Father of the Bride.

If I'm wrong, you can take 50K out of our contract. But if I'm right, you pay us an extra 50K. A little gamble. Yeah, it's a gamble of about $583,000, adjusted $5.000. for inflation. So the men agreed to the bet, and Lucy and Desi did the movie for the studio that had fired her just a few years earlier because they thought she didn't have the it factor. That's a fun fact for you. And in 1954, the long, long trailer hit theaters. And of course, it was a huge hit. Desi won the bet. Yeah. It's the number one TV show and the two main

actors from the show are now in a movie. Of course everyone's going to go see it. audiences came out in droves. Yeah. America loved their performance of a happy marriage, whether it was on TV or on the big screen. What were their names in the long, long trailer? Oh, I can't remember, but it's not Lucy and Ricky. Yeah, I figured. I was just curious, but it would be weird to hear a different name.

It would be, right? Yeah. People love this idea of what their marriage is like. Yeah. And it would have been really great if it had been real. Someone who was interviewed for the Turner Classic Movies podcast said that the only place that Lucy and Desi's marriage worked was in the Ricardo's living room. And that was kind of true. The fictionalized version of their marriage was wonderful.

But they could also be really wonderful to each other at work. They respected one another for what they brought to the table. And if one of them felt that the other was being disrespected, they put an issue. into it real fast. For example, if someone was rude to Lucy on set or kind of pushed back too much, Desi would step in and remind them that Lucy is the reason we're all here. She's the reason we're successful. There's a story about Lucy almost getting hurt on set one day. I guess someone had a cable out and she kind of tripped over it. And Desi said to the crew, hey, be careful with her. If anything happens to her, we're all in the shrimp business.

which I don't fully understand, but I think I get the gist of it. Nothing wrong with the shrimp business. How dare you, Desi? I didn't know. You were such a shrimp business defender. Actually, I'm just a big fan of shrimp. I enjoy eating shrimp. Very good.

There's another story about Lucy getting into an argument with one of the directors. And after the argument, the guy went into the bathroom. I guess he didn't have an office yet. He was still kind of a new director on the show. And Desi followed him into the bathroom and was like, Hey, you can't talk that way to my wife. Wow. And the guy was like, she has to let me direct.

I'm the director. And, you know, Desi eventually found a way to smooth that out. Similarly, Lucy really hated that people attributed so much of their shared success to just her. It made her so mad that people could celebrate her as a comedy genius, but not see that Desi played an excellent straight man. And not only that, he could. get laughs on his own. She also hated when people tried to downplay his business sense. She would spend the rest of her life complaining publicly that Desi never got the credit that he deserved,

not as a businessman, not as an actor, and not as a partner to her success. Wow. I think that's incredible. It's big to like acknowledge the people that helped get you to where you are. Yeah, and sorry, and not just acknowledge, but to be like... Be like, you're wrong. You're wrong. To say that I'm the one who carried the show. Yeah. Even though Desi would always say it was 90% Lucy.

She would never, never agree to that. I think what I love about it is having watched some interviews with her later in life, she was not like strictly nice about Desi. She talked about how he was a loser. You know, he had to lose stuff. He had to lose the marriage. He had to, you know, just I guess what I'm trying to say is it didn't feel P.R. to me.

P.R. P.R. with a little why. No, it didn't, it didn't sound like public relations speak to be like, well, he was wonderful. Because no, she'd be like. Yeah, it was raw and like real. Yeah, she'd be like, here's how he sucked. Here are some of his flaws, but also don't you dare say that he wasn't the best straight man in the business. Don't you dare say he didn't build Desi Liu into what it was.

She respected him enough to like he deserves this credit. Yeah. So Lucy and Desi were protective of each other. They were respectful of each other. But that protection and that respect had limits. I think again, it all comes down to is the threat coming. from inside or outside. You know what I mean?

I feel like so many people are like that where it's like, I'm going to say the worst thing in the world to you. Me? But if someone else comes and says something terrible to you, I'm going to attack them and defend you. It's not a healthy dynamic, but I think it's one everybody kind of knows. My problem is when people say terrible things about me, I just automatically believe them 100%. You're right.

Yes. I am lazy Desi's constant cheating took a toll on Lucy She went through a period of You know trying to be more relaxed about it She tried blaming other people For Desi's behavior

You know Kind of that thing of like Oh well when he's with that friend That's when it's a problem I just hate that Yeah Yeah The truth was she just wanted

Her husband to be monogamous And he couldn't be He couldn't be No No He often and said to his friends, what is she so excited about? They're only hookers. Yeah, he just, it wasn't for him.

Wish he would have said something. Yeah. I mean, because I feel like even before they got married, Lucille Ball was all about monogamy, and I want you, I want to have a family with you. And he clearly couldn't do that. Well, in fairness, though, they were both in relationships. when they hooked up. Yeah, but they broke up with their people, and then they got together. Sure.

I feel like if when you and I first got together, we were both... It was very hot and steamy time. Yes, and let's say we had both been in other relationships, and we cheated that first time we were together. This did not happen, everybody. But if that had happened, I'm sorry, but the least surprising thing in the world would be, if one of us then cheated on the other, right? Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Not saying anyone deserves that or anything, but I'm just saying it's not like he completely hid what he was like before they got married. Yeah, but he was also super manipulative and was like, yeah, I want you. Let's get married. And then when she tried to divorce him, he was like, oh, oh, you want to go on a day? because I still love you, blah, blah, and it's like, no, you don't. Like, you, you don't care about this person because you actively cheat on them all the time, and you know she doesn't want you to cheat.

You're cheating after I specifically asked you not to? We talked about this. Yes, yes, yes. I don't know. And I just, I hate that Lucille Ball felt the need to, like, blame. other people or things for her husband's cheating. Like he's some little puppet and he just gets led along to all these scenarios. And it's like, no, he actively chose to do this.

Okay, you know how sometimes people will be like, feminism benefits everybody. Toxic masculinity hurts everybody. And it's kind of like, yeah, okay, I hear you. But does that stuff really hurt men? Like, aren't they benefiting from, you know, the way things are? To me, this is an example of how toxic masculinity hurts men. Desi had it all.

He built it all, too. Like, I don't want to not give him credit for that. Yeah. But he had this deep insecurity about Lucy's fame and success and, how she was the star of the marriage. And I think so much of his problem with that was rooted in this idea of him being the man. So he has to be the one out front. He has to be the one with the bigger name.

She has to be smaller. She has to shrink in order for him to thrive. Yeah. And I think it's such a shame that he didn't try to work through. that bullshit. And maybe it's too much to think that, like, he could have in that time period. But I think their relationship is an example of how that can hurt a man, toxic masculinity. The other thing about sexism and patriarchy and all that stuff is obviously Lucille Ball was a trailblazer. And, you know, people talk about how tough she was. And I think she was extremely tough.

no doubt about that. But I also think about when we talk about their marriage, to me, this sounds like a woman who doesn't know that she's a prize. And we're all prizes. I'm not saying that because she's this amazing comedian. But like if you don't know that you are a prize, then you ignore someone's actions and just listen to their words. Okay, he says he's not going to cheat on me. except you know he is. So you put up with it and you invest even more in the relationship and you keep getting disappointed and you keep getting disappointed and the bitterness changes you. And it just, to me, it goes back to you don't know that you're a prize. Yeah. Well, she needs to go talk to that therapist again, the power of positive thinking. because, you know, she was scared all of the success would go away

and he had to remind her the success is within you. Yeah. You are the reason you got all this and you can get it again because it's in you. Yeah. And yeah, I wish

maybe Lucille Ball could have seen that with her marriage too. Like you are an amazing person if this marriage failed. It's okay because you can find someone new. Or find no one. Or find no one, sure. Yeah.

You'll still be you. Despite everything, it's still you. Oh, man. Will you talk more about that? That helped me through some stuff. Sure. There's a great little video game called Undertale. It's just like a little role-playing game.

I loved it. It's a very unique game. Okay. So at the beginning of the game, in this house and there's a mirror. And if you interact with the mirror, a little text box pops up and it says, it's you. Yeah. Cute, harmless.

You think nothing of it in the beginning of the game. Because you can interact with tons of stuff. Well, near the end of the game, you go back to that house and you can interact with the mirror again. And you've gone through tons of trials and tribulations in this game. Met a ton of people. You've battled enemies. You interact with the mirror again near the end of the mirror again. near the end of the game.

And the text box now says, despite everything, it's still you. Yeah. It's probably my favorite moment in that game. Poor Kristen was going through a tough time. I bought her a little plaque of that text box that says,

despite everything, it's still you. Yeah. Sometimes you just need that reminder. and man, I wish I could go back in time and hand one to Lucille Ball. Yeah. Yeah. Does what I said make sense? Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. And I agree with you. Yeah. I agree with you that toxic masculinity kind of fucked up Desi. It was bad for him. I think it hurts everyone. I think it's a harder pill to swallow when you try to tell men, hey, this hurts you too. Yeah.

But it does. It does. I mean, we talked about like that thing where some men get really weird if their wives make more money than them. It's like, God, that is toxic and so stupid. So stupid. You know, the other thing I think about with Desi is, obviously, we all have stuff we turn to when things get hard. And, you know, oftentimes it's not real healthy stuff. and I feel for him because for so much of his life, he couldn't get help.

He wouldn't allow himself to get help. Yeah. And I wonder how much of that is the time period. I think a lot of it is the time period. Definitely. I also wonder how much of it is cultural. You know, I don't know about that. I'm sure that plays a part as well.

Sure. We are many little pieces. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I'm like, I feel totally different. like if I'm struggling with something I'm like excuse me uh can you help me over here you are you and I are so the opposite I wish I was more like you thanks that's sweet to say I know I do because when I'm struggling

or like even if it's like a medical thing sometimes I'm like well I don't want to go to the doctor because then they'll tell me for sure that it's something bad and it's like I know that's stupid I know that's not the right way to do it but that's my natural instinct and I I feel like that's probably was DESE's too of like, even if he knew he had a problem, well, he can't go admit it. He can't go talk about it. Yeah. He can't go, you know, into that group of people who have, you know, a problem and be part of that group. The problem will be there whether you know about it or not. So you might as well know about it. Yeah. Wise words, let me see. Yeah. My dad always told me that everything is information.

Yeah. And it just enables us to make better life choices. Like, for example, us telling everyone, hey, if you watch the British version of Kitchen Nightmares, you see Gordon Ramsey Toplis. That's just information. Or, that's just data for you. Go enjoy. Here's more information. At the $5 level on our Patreon, you get access to monthly new bonus episodes of an old-timey

podcast. You've got some real skill here. You can turn anything into an ad. What can I say? I've been on YouTube for 15 years. Although I really didn't do too many sponsored videos. No. I always hated them. But anyway. As the pressure mounted, Desi got less and less discreet. Beverly Hills Police sometimes found him outside of brothels. Jesus. Drunkenly singing Babaloo. Yeah. You stomped on me making it worse that he's out there drunkenly singing. Yeah. The police kind of gave him what sounds to me like the star treatment,

meaning that, you know, nothing much happened to him. But people talked. Oh, of course. And then in January of 1955, all those whispers finally made it into print. A very popular tabloid magazine wrote a story about Desi. The tabloid was called Confidential Magazine. Have you heard of this one?

Confidential magazine. I don't read too many magazines these days. Well, I mean, this hasn't been around for a very long time, but it was a controversial magazine. I thought it was a confidential magazine. And on their cover, they ran a photo of Desi and Lucy. In it, Desi is kissing Lucy's cheek, and she's smiling at the camera.

And the headline reads, Does Desi really love Lucy? Oh. The article referred to Desi as a duck out daddy Who has, quote, sprinkled his affections all over Hollywood for a number of years. Ew. It said that he likes to hire, quote, cuddles for cash cuties. So gross.

Cuddles for cash. Okay. Oh, so prostitutes. Yes. Got it Cuddles for Cash Cudies I actually liked that term for sex workers You know what's funny is like this article

It's just like I was I was thinking about it for like two days Because I was like what a fucking ridiculous Duckout Daddy Cuddles for Cash cuties Sprinkled his affections all over Hollywood Ew Oh gross

That soundboard has to go He was sprinkling his affections Yeah, we get it. Yeah. Don't you remember, like, magazines back in the day, they used to have a voice, and the voice of each magazine was unique to that magazine. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, this makes sense.

This was the voice of that magazine. Yeah, video game magazines were like that, too. Yeah, I think it was pretty common. I feel like it had to have been especially common with the gossip magazines. Mm-hmm. Oh, anyway. Cuddles for Cash cuties. Yeah.

I love that. I think we make a T-shirt. I'm a Cuddles for Cash cutty. I feel like the term sex worker, that's done, gone. Old news. Dunzo. Cuddles for Cash cuties. I don't want to have sex worker sounds boring. Cuddles for Cash.

Ching! I'm all about it. The article said that the summer before Desi Jr. was born, Desi spent 20 minutes with a sex worker in a Beverly Hills hotel. And then the sex worker went to spend time with Desi's male relative. What does that mean? Okay, I probably shouldn't guess, but Desi did have a cousin that was around for a long time. But the thing is, like, who knows how accurate this was, but in general it was accurate. You know what I mean? Lucy heard about the article, but of course she wanted to read it for herself.

So she asked her staff to go buy the magazine, but like nobody wanted to do that. And she finally kind of settled it by being like, Christ, I can't go out and buy it myself, please. Yeah, no kidding. It would be so embarrassing. Oh, yeah, you can't be seen by that. It's humiliating. Eventually someone brought her a copy. Desi, of course, denied the accuracy of the article.

He even took a copy to the studio and was like, can you believe what they're saying about me? Oh, the lies. 20 minutes, it was five at the most. Yeah, people were like, okay, Desi. Because everybody knew. Yeah. Lucy was so embarrassed. At an industry dinner after the article came out,

she and Desi were seated next to the comedian Danny Kay and the actress slash singer Lily Ponds. And Danny said to Desi, you made confidential. And Lily asked what confidential was. and Danny said, it's a magazine about fucking. And Lucy was so humiliated that she didn't say a word for the rest of the night. It'd be so embarrassing.

I think this Danny Kay guy sucks ass. And I don't know if Lily genuinely didn't know what confidential was. I think that's just so shitty. Yeah, that is. And just, you know, a reminder of how humiliating this was for Lucy. I think it's also, I think it fits that this guy's a comedian. To me, this reeks of jealousy. I'm jealous that this woman is, you know, people call her the number one comedian

because, you know, she can't be the number one comedian. But I'm sorry, if you're the number one show on television and you're getting celebrated like this, I bet a lot of the comedy bros are pretty upset. So he was excited to like take Lucy down a pig. That's what it sounds like to me Yeah When you're bringing up this article in front of her

Yeah, I think you're right Lucy and Desi's marriage was at times violent I don't think we should be talking about this Why? Because I'm uncomfortable Oh, get ready to be real uncomfortable Okay Lucy's longtime maid Harriet McCain

Once told a friend that after the confidential magazine story came out Lucy hit Desi on the head with a hammer and he went unconscious. She apparently thought she'd killed him. Uh, yeah, if you hit him on the head with a hammer. Lucy screamed for Harriet and the two women tried to revive Desi, but he wouldn't come to. So they decided that they'd have to call the police and say that he'd fallen and hit his head.

But then Desi did come to, and he was like, well, I look crazy now. I guess I'll have to tell everyone that I fell and hit my head. Who knows if that's... story's true. Yeah, I don't know. I got to be honest, when you said it got violent, I was thinking Desi hurting Lucile Ball. Stay tuned. Here we go. Another time, oh, good. A friend was over, something for everyone. Yeah, a friend was over at Lucy and Desi's house for dinner, and he said that the two started arguing, and Desi hit Lucy in the face and split her lip open, and Harriet turned up with a bottle of wine and conced Desi on the head. And after everyone was all clean,

up and settled, they acted like nothing had happened. That's awkward. It's weird. But you know, okay, you and I were watching I Love Lucy episodes today because there were some that I wanted you to see before we recorded today. And like, I put on one that I just, I've always liked. It's the one where they're in Hollywood and Lucy's going to be in a fashion show, but she gets a really bad sunburn before the fashion show.

And part of the reason she gets the sunburn. is because she spent a lot of money on a dress, and she knows Ricky's going to be really mad at her. And she figures, well, if I've got this really bad sunburn, then Ricky will take pity on me and he won't hit me. And I just think, and you watch that now and you go, holy shit. Yeah. I wonder how much more common this was in relationships

or maybe how much more accepted it was. or maybe just how much more talked about it was. I don't know. A little more normalized back then. Well, it's pretty damn normalized if it's talked about. On a sitcom. Yeah. The number one sitcom.

Between what is portrayed as a very loving couple. The year that the Confidential Magazine story came out, Desi's drinking got a lot worse. He'd show up at work and around 10 a.m., he'd ask for tomato soup and it was always loaded with vodka. Oh. Yeah. That doesn't sound pleasant at all.

No, it sounds disgusting. All of a sudden, this guy who was such a good businessman, was staggering around and often falling asleep at work. The pressure was really getting to him. Desi now oversaw the production of a bunch of TV shows in addition to juggling the I Love Lucy show. All the drinking and the stress took a physical toll on him. His doctors told him that he needed to slow down,

but that wasn't in his nature. For the people who worked on the I Love Lucy show and who worked at Desi Lou, life got uncomfortable. People often said that Desi Lou was like a family. And it was. Lucy and Desi liked to hire people they knew and trusted. Yeah. And that meant sometimes hiring literal family members. And I think this is interesting because I think in more recent years, we as a society have come to see that when you go into a workplace and they're like, we're like a family here.

You see that as kind of a red flag. Immediately. Uh-huh. Because yeah, okay. Sure, that probably means we can all laugh together, we can joke together, we have fun company picnics. But it also means that there's probably a lot of dysfunction, just like what happens in a real family. Probably not a lot of boundaries, probably some secrets. Take advantage of people.

So it was hard on the cast and crew when Desi would be hooking up with other women right under their noses. They had a loyalty to him as the president of Desi Lou, but they also had a lot of loyalty and affection for Lucy. All anyone wanted was for Lucy and Desi to find a way to make it work. And Desi and Lucy did make some attempts at giving themselves a more peaceful life. Until this point, they'd lived out at their, you know, Desi Lou Ranch, which sounded so cool. Better than those other names. But by the mid-1950s, Hollywood had grown so much. much. And their ranch out in the country no longer felt like it was in the country. New houses were

popping up everywhere and their long commute was even longer now. Plus, they didn't feel safe. In 1955, their children had been the targets of a kidnapping threat. Whoa. I know. So Lucy and Desi decided to move to Beverly Hills. Not only would living there be a sign that they had made it, but they'd be closer to the studio and they'd be in a part of town where, police responded to like literally everything. Did they sing Beverly Hills, what a thrill. Beverly Hills, what a thrill. Of course they did.

What a silly question. Desi was so busy that Lucy actually went alone with a realtor to look for a new house. The realtor took her to a gorgeous home in Beverly Hills, but Lucy wasn't really into it. So this was like house hunters. It was exactly like house hunters. My budget is $45 million. And they're only allowed to look at three houses because house hunters, they've got a strict limit. So it's funny, Lucy still had her Jamestown roots.

She loved a more classic look. She didn't like anything too modern. Yeah, a nice little bungalow. And even though she was rolling in money, she was kind of tight with it. She liked a bargain. She liked antiques. She really liked what was familiar. So, like, she was famous for, okay, if,

the curtains are looking a little drab and dreary. Okay, well, how do I get these exact curtains remade? She didn't want, like, to update anything. She's like, I like the curtains. I just want them to look a little nicer. That's my grandma. She was that way, too. She had these two green cloth recliners.

Yep. And they were so worn out. And I remember my mom was like, please let me take you and get you something new. and poor grandma walked around Nebraska furniture mart looking for a dark green cloth recliner. And of course they didn't have that. Yeah. She wanted exactly what she already had, just better. Yeah.

Yeah. There's something kind of sweet about that. I get that. So, you know, Lucy's at this, you know, kind of more modern California home when she looked across the street at a home that wasn't even on the market. But that didn't matter. It had a classic look. It reminded her of Jamestown.

Do you want the address? Oh, yes. It was 1,000 North Roxbury Drive in Beverly Hills. Ooh, yeah, that's a nice house. Okay, well, you put a photo up in the video version. I always do, my dear. I'm just checking, because this place, and if you're not on the, if you're not watching the video, obviously look it up,

this place is great. Gorgeous, immaculate. I don't even know how to describe it. So it's a five-bedroom mansion on a corner lot, beautifully manicured. Yeah, a very classic style. A classic look. It's on the Beverly Hills Historical Society Walking Tour. Oh, shit.

I would love it. Yeah, very, very nice home. It's amazing what money will buy you. Turns out. very nice home. Turns out money can be really good for your life. Lucy was so in love with this place that she just walked up and rang the doorbell. The woman who answered the door didn't recognize her, but when Lucy said she wanted to buy her house, the woman actually kind of thought it over. She and her husband had just built a guest house

out back for their son, but their son had died in an accident. Oh, that's sad. Yeah. And, you know, it's just one of those things. She and her husband were really strong. struggling to live in that house now with those memories. So she said, yeah, we'll sell. Lucy bought the house for $85,000. And then she walked out and told the realtor, hey, I just bought a house. Inflation? Oh, shit, I didn't adjust for inflation.

Wow. Hang on. Wow. Okay. Adjusted for inflation, it's less than a million dollars. Well, how much? $999,000, $845,000. Okay.

So it's a million dollars. It's a million dollars. We can round up, Kristen. But still, like, it's funny because, you know, the sources all say, like, it, you know, the realtor was like, well, this isn't grand enough for Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. And I, you know, I look at the pictures and I'm like, well, it sure is shit is grand enough. But yeah, when you think about a star of her stature buying a home that's just a million, that seems probably a lot cheaper than what a lot of other celebrities.

celebrities were spending. I have no idea. All right. That's fair. I don't know either. If you bought a million dollar house today in Beverly Hills, it would be like a shack. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, real estate's different. I don't know. Yeah. So this was exciting. It was a good move. It would make their lives a little easier. But the house wasn't moving ready. Before they moved in, they had some work done.

And one day, Lucy and Desi and the kids went to check on it. And they discovered that a pipe had burst. It had ruined the new carpet. It messed up the plaster walls. Oh. Yeah. I have some experience with this. I know you do.

And as he flipped out. He kicked the walls, tore at the plaster with his bare hands. Lucy was apparently shocked by this behavior. She'd never seen him quite so out of control, so full of rage. And it was happening in front of the kids. That was a big area of concern for Lucy. she worried about how their children were being affected by their marriage. The actor who played Little Ricky on I Love Lucy was actually really good friends with the real Desi Jr.

And so he'd come and spend the night at Lucy and Desi's house. And he knew the family really well. And as an adult, he later talked about how one time when they were kids, Desi Sr. heard that Desi Jr.'s tutor had referred to him as a spoiled brat. And Desi just beat the shit out of the guy. Oh my God. Yeah. All this to say, this was a lot of dysfunction and the children witnessed too much.

Yeah. When things were bad, Lucy did what she'd always done. She found solace in work. She found solace in making I Love Lucy as good as it could possibly be. And it's kind of incredible that amidst all this turmoil, they continued to create classic episodes of I Love Lucy. The show evolved. The Ricardo's moved up in the world. Ricky's career flourished, which meant they could get new appliances.

It meant they could travel. The episodes from season four where Lucy and Ricky and Fred and Ethel go to Hollywood are really good because they're, in my opinion, they're true to the premise of the show, which is that Ricky's in show business, but he wants to come home to a normal life. But Lucy is obsessed with celebrities and wants nothing more than to break into show business herself. And by placing these characters in Hollywood, the I Love Lucy writers put Lucy Ricardo in the presence of fame. They let her get closer and closer and closer to it. And inevitably and hilariously, screw it all up. In one episode, Lucy worms her way into a fashion show, but it gets such a bad sunburn that she can barely walk. I just talked about the hilarious parts of that episode earlier.

I wasn't planning to do that. That's right. In another, she spots William Holden at the Brown Derby and accidentally gets him pied in the face. That's a funny episode. That might be my favorite episode of all time. Yeah. I love that episode.

That scene where they're in the Brown Derby restaurant. So I made Norman watch this today. Which, by the way, if that's a set piece, it was a great redesign of the Brown Derby. I don't know if they actually filmed at the Brown Derby. Probably not. I doubt it. But Lucy can't stop staring at William Holden.

And so William Holman says, you know what, I'm going to turn the tables and I'm going to stare at this woman. Yeah. That scene is so funny watching Lucy awkwardly eat spaghetti while William Holden stares at her. It's so good. It shows, I mean, such a range. Her facial expressions say it all. You watch her go from gawking at him to being so, so, so uncomfortable when he refuses to stop staring at her. Yeah.

It's so good. So good. The I Love Lucy show was doing what a good show should. It evolved but stayed true to the original premise. And as the years went on, the I Love Lucy's staff evolved too. In 1956, producer Jess Oppenheimer left to work for NBC. The writers, Madeline Pugh and Bob Carroll Jr. left and later came back. They changed directors.

The show couldn't go on forever. and Lucy and Desi didn't want it to. Yeah. But they also kind of weren't sure what to do next. At one point, Desi said to Lucy that they basically had two options. They could do the show for a few more years, take the money they made off of it, invest it, and live off the investments for the rest of their lives.

Or they could turn Desi Lou into a major studio. They could compete with MGM. They could compete with Paramount. They really did talk. about retiring and living a simple life. It's tempting. Yeah, but I don't think it's in either of their natures. No, definitely not.

Mm-mm. I don't think you get to this point and walk away, you know? Yeah, no way. Tempting for me. I'd be like, ooh. Sounds good. Lucy loved her career. She wanted to keep going.

She wanted to see what was next. And Desi was a builder and a gambler. You know, he didn't want to stop either. So they decided to really go for it. They'd make Desi Liu a major studio, and they'd keep making the I Love Lucy show. But, you know, that was tough. We've talked about this before. Each season of the show had like 30 episodes.

It was ridiculous. Yeah, and how insane that is. Yeah. So by the time they reached the sixth season, the cast and the staff were kind of worn out. But it's that problem of they were worn out, but the audience wasn't. They still loved Lucy. They still wanted more. The show was still on top.

Well, and you have to think with a season having like 30 episodes. If you like do the math, like a modern day sitcom. Oh my gosh. That's like 12, 15 seasons of episodes. It's wild. It's wild. And they did like an episode a week. I mean, just a breakneck pace.

Yeah. I can't even imagine it. And there is always that risk of you've over. stage you're welcome with a with a show a lot of shows have suffered from that yeah we're going to talk about that okay we might be talking about it in just a minute actually in an effort to keep things fresh the writers moved the ricardo's and the merxes out of their new york apartment building and into the country the logic was that the move would give them fresh material and it did in that sixth season. The show felt like it was winding down a bit, but those episodes still had some

really classic bits. In fact, and this was one of the things everyone that I made Norm watch earlier today, Lucy got the longest laugh of her career in episode 20 of season six. That episode is titled Lucy Does the Tango, and in it Lucy and Ethel are raising chickens, and they want to trick Ricky into thinking that the hens are producing eggs. So they go to the the store, buy the eggs, and then they hid the eggs in their clothing so that Ricky wouldn't see the store bought eggs. So there's Lucy with a button-down shirt, chalk full of eggs, probably like three dozen. I don't know if you had to guess. And she puts a big coat over the top, and she and Ethel are about to leave the house so they can go put the eggs in the chicken coop. And oh, Ricky walks in

and insists that Lucy practiced the tango with them for an upcoming performance. So the wild thing about this is that just moments before this happens, the studio audience had watched in horror as a baby chick got crushed to death by a camera. Oh. Oh, yeah. Terrible. Terrible. Total accident, obviously, but, you know, the audience was just horrified.

That is the worst. Seeing anything happen to animals is like... Oh, yeah. And a baby chick, I mean, oof. Not the great setup to a comedy, but Ricky. He insists on doing the tango and he and Lucy start dancing. And at the end of the dance, of course, there's the grand finale. And he, bam, presses his body against hers and all the eggs break.

And Lucy's body convulses and her eyes go wide and, ew, ew, ew, you can feel it. And the laugh from the studio audience lasted a full 65 seconds. It went on so long that it had to be cut down for TV. It's a funny moment. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. When Lucy pretends like nothing actually happened and she's like constantly wiping egg from her stomach and just like looking around like what? Oh, it's nothing.

I think that's my favorite thing about her comedy is like, okay, so they give you the setup. You're going to slam into his body. Obviously, all the eggs are going to break. It's going to feel disgusting. And so, yeah, you act that out and you get that laugh. But then I feel like she so expertly extends the laugh even further when she's wiping the egg whites off of her dripping, pouched out shirt. And the laughs are kind of about to die down a bit.

And then she kind of does this gesture like she's just trying to act casual. Yeah. And like, oh, actually, this, this didn't. didn't happen. And it's so funny. It's so funny. That's, that was the part where I laughed out loud was not when the initial cracking happened, but then with her just like covered in these broken eggs, just dripping and trying to act like, oh, what? It's fine. Yeah. And a few seconds later, again, the laughter might die, but then she shakes her foot. to show, oh, the eggs have now dripped completely down my body.

Yeah. It's brilliant. The show still had big moments, and it was still a hit, but it was time to let it go. I respect the choice. I love when shows do this. Oh, you're not going to love this, though. Oh, no. On April 4, 1957, they filmed the last I Love Lucy show.

By that point, they'd won five Emmys. They'd been nominated for 23. but they weren't done. Okay. That year they stopped doing the regular half-hour show and instead decided to do hour-long specials, but much fewer of them, but all with the same characters,

same, same, same, same, same, but under a different name. It would be the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour. Oh, a variety show? I mean... I guess it wasn't a variety show. Not really. I hate that name.

Yeah, it's not great. So it's funny that you've already mentioned this because this was the start of what I personally think was a mistake. Those specials to me are like a long drawn out goodbye. They aren't fun. It's like it's a half step to me. You know, it's like to me what I feel is it's two people who are sticking with the thing that works, the thing that pays the bills, but their hearts aren't in it. because over the course of those 13 hour-long specials, two big things happened. Lucy and Desi made Desi Lou into a major Hollywood studio, and they lost their marriage.

So I'm only really going to talk about one of these hour-long specials. It's the most famous one, namely for everything that happened behind the scenes. The episode is called The Celebrity Next Door, and it's a mess. Oh, boy. First off, Lucy had wanted Betty Davis to be the guest. star for that episode. But Betty had just fallen off a horse, so she had to back out. Say horse again?

A horse. Horse? Did he sound like Hank Hill? Sounds like goofy. You-hoo! That's the sound of Betty Davis falling off a horse. Whoa. I broke my arm.

And my back hurts. Christian's horse. So Betty's out. and in her place they wound up with Tallulah Bankhead. Don't know who this is. Should I? Tallulah was a very famous actress and a character. All caps, character.

She drank a ton and would sometimes do cartwheels without underwear. What happens when you do that? You show everyone your beaver. Your coot, coot. As soon as Tallulah showed up on set, Lucy knew that they'd made a mistake. to Lula was drunk during rehearsals. Oh, boy. Didn't know any of her lines.

And, you know, Lucy took rehearsals very seriously. So did Vivian Vance. I mean, this was not like a laughing matter. They really wanted it perfect so that it would look seamless when it was time to do the show. So they're just, they're appalled by this woman's behavior. At one point, Desi held a meeting in his office, kind of hoping to maybe clear the air, get everyone on the same page. He'd already taken Tallulah aside and said,

hey, you really need to take this seriously. So this story, it gets told a bunch of different ways, but the end point is always the same. The version of the story that I personally like is that they're all in this meeting in Desi's office, and Vivian Vance makes kind of an innocent comment about, oh, I like your pants, Tallulah.

Those are nice pants. And Tallulah took them off and gave them to her, and she wasn't wearing underwear. So she sat on the floor in Desi's office, cross-legged with no aunties on, until someone draped a dressing gown over her crotch. Everyone, if you could see the look on Norm's face. Get on that $10 to here, folks. Okay. What is this woman's deal?

So. Why was she chosen for this? What is she known for? Obviously, she's an actress, but like, is this known behavior by her? Did they know she was like this beforehand? Did she have a reputation? Here's where I struggle with it. Because I was very intrigued.

And so I did a little digging into her today and, like, obviously, big drinker used drugs. And so there's part of me that's like, okay, well, this is a really sad story. Battling addiction. But also, she. she was kind of known to be kind of laissez-faire and kind of, you know, whatever. So I feel like you and I had very different childhoods in terms of what we consumed. You consumed a goofy movie non-stop. I watched, I think, probably some old problematic cartoons from back in the day.

But no, in, I feel like in a lot of those old cartoons, they would have characters who put on this voice like this and kind of. and it was an imitation of Toulula Bankhead. Really? I think so. I think so because once you hear her voice, it is very unique. Hmm. Very unique.

Okay. So all this to say, yeah, things behind the scenes were cocoa bananas. A little crazy. Yeah. Lucy was sweating over the show, just convinced this is going to be awful. Awful. This woman doesn't know any of her lines. So they do the show.

And... Uh-huh. I'm waiting. In a humiliating turn of events, when the show started, Tallulah was perfect. She had all her lines memorized somehow, didn't miss a single cue, was the ultimate professional.

And Lucy, for the first time in her career, fucked up a bunch of lines, just... It probably threw her off. Yes! Well, she had been so convinced, like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to have to carry this. And I think you're exactly right.

It just threw her off. And Tallulah said to her, in front of the audience, What's the matter, darling? Did you forget your lines? Oh, my God. Lucy was pissed off. I'd be silently fuming. Oh, she was.

She was. After the taping, when word leaked to the press that Tallulah had been a bit of a disaster on set, to Lula told the media. You know what? No, I had a great time. She's like, oh, Lucy, oh, she's divine. And then she said this about Desi. Quote, he's brilliant. He has a temper, however.

But that's because he's fat. It worries him. What? I'm starting to like this woman. He has a temper, but that's because he's fat. It worries him. That was her revenge on him for him. telling her that she needed to be more professional.

She is a character. It's true that Desi was worried during the making of that episode, but it probably had nothing to do with his weight. It had everything to do with this woman showing her beave to everybody. Well, actually, well, probably yes, that. But actually, amidst all this, RKO Studios, the studio where Lucy and Desi had first, met the studio that I in our I think it was our first or second episode of this series was like no one's heard of it and you were like I know all about it I was like um actually actually it was for sale yeah I was gonna say by this time RKO is probably not doing well it was doing horribly so it had been owned by Howard Hughes for a minute oh say no more say no more Howard Hughes yep yeah so Howard Hughes had owned it and then he'd sold it to gentlemen general tire company, which they owned it for like a minute before they were like, what the

hell are we doing owning a studio? We don't know what to do with it. We're a tire company, damn it? I mean, really? Like, what were they thinking? So they put RKO up for sale for like $6.5 million, which was a steal. Adjusted for inflation, $74 million. Not very expensive for a movie studio. But, I mean, it would take all the money that Lucy and Desi had and then some. Like they would have to pay everything and then get a bank loan for about $2 million. Gosh, but don't you get all their IPOs if you own RKO Studio? So wouldn't they get King Kong and all that stuff? Yeah, I assume.

Be huge. You know, it's funny. One of Lucy's main concern. So her main concern was, okay, if we buy RKO, does everyone get to keep their jobs? You know, she cared about that. She cared about, is Desi good with this decision? Because she really, like, she was the vice president of the company at this time, but she really wasn't that involved in all the business dealings. And she kind of liked it that way.

She was wanting to be the performer. But one of her big things was, where are all the props? I want to see all the stuff. And yeah, Lucy Arnaz, the daughter, later talked about being a child. and growing up and getting to play with the King Kong stuff. Because why not? Mom and dad owned the studio. How cool was that?

Mistakes a shame. I said IPOs. That is initial public offering on Wall Street. What I meant to say was IPs, intellectual property. Wow. You are such a dumb ho. Anyway, not IPOs, IPs. So, yeah, this would be a big deal if they bought this studio.

Absolutely. I already revealed it because I said that Lucy Arnaz played with the King Kong show. So they bought RKO. Desi bought RKO Studios for a little over $6 million, did not pay full price. Okay, Maxinista. During the intermission of the Celebrity Next Door taping while he was wearing full Shakespearean garb. Wow. Yeah.

Because like he's in the show and he's running off to make this incredible deal. So Desi Lou was officially a powerhouse. It gives them a lot of resources if you now you bought RKO. It's everything. Yeah. But that purchase put more pressure on their already strained marriage. Oh, well, that's just adding way more work in your life. And now you've got to deal with a giant gorilla.

Yeah. What are we going to do with this giant gorilla? There were actually a couple of them. Really? Yeah. That's just a fun fact. I really just want an excuse to press that button. Sure.

Yeah. In next week's episode. And what I'm hoping will be the final episode, my God, I feel like... The final Lucille Ball episode. See, here's the thing. I think I could do two and more, but I'm worried that the people are fatigued. So I'm going to try to keep it one. But in next week's episode, Lucy and Desi get divorced.

I was looking for a want-w-w-w-oh. Oh. Although I guess, you know what, I take that back. If a marriage isn't working and you get divorced, that's not a want-w-w. Yeah, it's more. It's not quite that either. Okay. How about it just really sucks for everyone involved?

Great. I love it. I love it. Yeah. And yeah, that's that. Excellent. I learned a lot. What'd you learn, Norm?

Are you just going to repeat the whole episode back to it? Well, I had no clue they bought RKO. Really? That's very interesting to me. Yeah. Next week's episode, it'll be more interesting. And then hearing about this lady's beve. And then putting on a flawless performance.

I didn't even tell you about the beave. Tallulah. Okay. This was in Kathleen Brady's book. I stared at the pages. blinking. Couldn't believe it. It said that people couldn't look away because her crotch went down to her knees.

And I was like, her crotch went down to her knees. What does that even mean? So I'm guessing she had long labia, but like even then I'm gone. What? Yeah, I don't know. You know what? This is really your fault when you think about it because I didn't include that in the script. I was like, you know what?

That's ridiculous to include. But you brought up her beve. Again, and I couldn't help myself. The thing I struggle with it is, like, is she a deeply troubled woman and we shouldn't be talking about it? Or was she kind of kooky and funny? Although that's, yeah, you can be kooky and funny and not show your beave to everybody. I got to be honest, I love that story of she's an absolute mess. And then during the performance, she's like fucking perfect.

Perfect. And mocking Lucille Ball and afterward being like, um, Desi's fat. and that worries him. That's why he's so mean to me. That's crazy. Tallulah Bankhead. I have to look into this woman. Yeah.

Now I'm intrigued. I mean, she was really something. Really something. I was thinking of a joke. Like Tallulah Bankhead, more like Tallulah Credit Union neck. That is so stupid. I know. That's amazing.

Keep it in, please. It's stupid. I don't even, it doesn't even, it's stupid. So much of what we say is stupid. If we cut everything that was stupid, we wouldn't have a show. Think about that. I mean, that is a great point, Kristen. Yes. Well, should we wrap this up?

We should. I'm hungry. Oh, I'm hungry too. Kristen, you know what they say about history hoes. We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information. from the book Love Lucy by Lucille Ball, the Plot Thicken's podcast from Turner Classic Movies,

the documentary Lucy and Desi, and the book The Life of Lucille Ball by Kathleen Brady. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an editor-pacar car. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Old Timey Podcast

and follow us individually on Instagram. I'm at Kristen Pitts Caruso, and this boy is Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Shiro!