An Old Timey Podcast - 11: Lucy and Desi Get Divorced (Part 6)

Episode Date: June 26, 2024

After nearly 20 years of marriage, Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz called it quits. Their divorce was quick, but it wasn’t simple. They’d grown Desilu into a major Hollywood studio, on par with MGM, Warner Brothers and Twentieth Century Fox. In order to keep the business going, they had to work together. And when that didn’t work out, Lucy had to figure out how to be the boss.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from:“Love, Lucy,” by Lucille Ball“The Plot Thickens” podcast from Turner Classic Movies“The Life of Lucille Ball,” by Kathleen BradyThe documentary “Lucy and Desi”“Ball of Fire,” by Stefan KanferAre you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes for Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. Oh, Jesus. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm Norman Caruso, who's hyped up on Crystal Light right now. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And on this episode, Lucy and Desi get divorced. Balls!

No, why balls? I thought you were going to do the... No, because when I did that last time, you were like, Oh, but sometimes divorce is a good thing. Okay, well, I was in a different mood that day. Today, I'm bringing a different kind of energy. Today, I definitely can tell. I have four caffeinated beverages surrounding me.

I did two things today already. I went to the dentist and I went to therapy. And now I'm recording an episode. What am I wonder woman? I hate today. What will she do next? Hopefully take a nap. Lay on the couch and watch Big Brother season 10?

Yes. Okay. On the days when I go to the dentist, I feel like that's all I should have to do, right? Takes a lot out of you. Yeah. And yet I come here like a fucking champion. Anyway, why don't you do a little plug of our Patreon so I can keep going to the dentist? What program did you watch today at the dentist?

The TV was broken. I had to raw dog it, just sit there with my feelings. They didn't even have a poster for me to look at. I know. Folks, if you find this podcast entertaining and even the slightest, make sure you subscribe to an old-timey podcast and give us a five-star rating on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. Wow. Even the slightest, huh?

Just even the tiniest little bit, we will take it. Even if you're just halfway paying attention to this podcast while you dust the living room. Go ahead and pause, sign up for our Patreon. What do you get when you sign up for the Patreon, Norm? We have a special announcement today. Oh, we do? We have new tier names. Yes, we do.

We renamed all of our tiers on Patreon to coincide with this brand-new, old-timey podcast. OxyMoron right there, huh? At the $5 level, we have a non-threatening fan. You get access to our Discord to chitty chat the day away. You get a monthly bonus episode of an old-timey podcast, including the video version. Oh, my goodness. And then you get the entire back catalog of Let's Go to Court bonus episodes. So, you know, if you just want to dip your toe in the water, you're not here to cause any trouble.

That's right. You're a non-threatening fan. Mm-hmm. I get it. I, too, am non-threatening. If you enjoy crystal light with a little caffeine in it, instead of energy drinks or coffee or a full-blown soda pot. That $5 tier is for you. Next we have the $7 tier.

And we have dubbed it, History Ho. Hell yeah. You get everything on the previous tier. Plus, you get a thank you card signed by both of us, a sticker of Let's Go to Court, a sticker of an old-timey podcast,

and you get to join us for our YouTube watch parties. Next month, we are going to watch bad movie trailers. It's going to be fun. What does the card say, Norm? Because you were the one who wrote the little message

on the inside of the card that all these history hoes received. Do you want to tell them or do you know it? No, it's a surprise. Get on that tier, sign up. Wow. Get that mysterious greeting. Who knows what it'll say. He's teasing you, folks.

But I've saved the best for last. If you want to get in on the ground level of an exciting new venture, I present to you at the $10 level, pig butter investor. Oh, wow. This is how you get rich, folks. That's right. You invest in pig butter. This is going to make you way more money than longer burger baskets.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Then Herbalife. Mary Kay. Mary Kay. Lou La Roe. That's right. So you get everything on the previous tiers.

Plus you get early ad-free episodes of an old-timey podcast. Plus you get full video of every episode of an old-timey podcast. So then you get to see how beautiful Kristen's looking today. Oh. Mm-hmm. And how. I'm looking today. Plus you get 10% off merchandise.

Wow. You basically make money when you sign up for this tier. That's right. Now, I'm going to need you to bring in three other friends to also get with you at that level. That will be your downline. We put a picture of me on social media in front of a brand new Chevy Tahoe. And I've got... With a pig in the passenger seat.

And I'm like, how do I get this new vehicle? It's simple. It's because I'm playing harder than I work because I invested in pig butter. This is getting too real. Can we stop? Hashtag blessed. Folks, please join us. Patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

We have a wonderful community. We have a lot of extra goodies we can give you. So thank you for your support if you decide to join. What kind of extra goodies are you giving people, Norm? I made that Dare Pledge of Virginity. You did. You did make a certificate for everyone. We do fun little goodies for the patrons that, you know, little surprises.

I posted that on social media, so actually everyone got that. Sorry. Whoops. What a betrayal to our history hose. Whoops a daisy. I'll try to do better team. Anyway, business cat mode over. Shall we get into the episode, or do you have some mistakes you want to talk about?

Did I make mistakes in last week's episode? You're the one that's supposed to come up with the mistakes. No, I made no mistakes. Okay. And even if I did, shouldn't we go easy on me because I went to the dentist today? Let's all be nice to Kristen. She just got back from the dentist. And she really didn't like it.

What did, uh, would they say about your chompers? They're looking good? They said it's fine. She suggested a night guard. I get suggested that too. I said, I grind my teeth at night. Yeah. I said, I don't want some guy to watch me sleep.

You liked that, didn't you? That was pretty good. Yeah, uh-huh. It's just to protect you at night. Who's coming after you? Listen, I haven't hired him yet. They just suggested him to me today. They said, look, you're beautiful.

Oh. You're famous. Oh. You're the Grace Kelly of podcasting. That's what they say everywhere I go. Yeah. They're like, what are you doing showing up here alone at the dentist? And you went to therapy today?

My God, what can't she do? Are you suspicious of my energy right now? You seemed a little scared at first. Now you're kind of liking it. Now I don't know where you are. I mean, when you did the hear ye, hear you, I kind of, I was shook. Do I need to take that again? No, it's fine.

It's great. Bring the energy. All right. I'm ready to get in this episode. Well, I guess you should probably warn the people. I've been telling people on Discord this was the last episode of Lucille Ball. It's actually not. Oh, so you've been lying.

I didn't have all the information, so I would not consider it lying. Everyone, here's the situation. The sitch. The topic of Lucille Ball has gotten away from me. I'll be the first to admit it. Thought this was going to be a two-parter? No, it's turning into what part is this? I'm recording today, six.

It's going to be seven. I am obsessed with this story. I love Lucille Ball. and I'm loving these deep dives. I am still insecure about them, though, because... It's fine. Who cares? Well, I care.

Yesterday, when I realized I wasn't going to be able to fit everything into this episode. I cried in the kitchen. She did. I was making boneless chicken wings for lunch, and Chris came in crying, and I sat there and ate my wings and talked to her. I will promise the people. I'm going to do a few one-offs in the future. Don't be all scared. I am scared, though.

This is the real me. It's okay that it's an extra part. If we want to tell the story in a good way, and if detailed way, in a fun way, we make it as long as we have to. And that's okay. No, I agree. And it's funny because, like,

I know how much I'm liking this story, and I know I wouldn't be upset about an understanding. other part. I think it's just the insecurity of doing a new podcast. We don't have that many episodes out. So it's not like people can be like, well, I'll just listen to one of their other episodes. Okay. Well, this is a perfect time for them to join the Patreon and they can listen to our bonus episodes. And they're both about animals, hippos and monkey testicles. Well, you really are a business cat, norm. You turned my low self-esteem into your money-making opportunity. And I respect the hell out of it. I need a, like a chiching sound effect on here. I think you do. Yeah. What's the,

what's the closest I can get to that? Probably that balls. That works. That'll do it. Okay, I'm ready. Lucille Ball, part six. Okay, give me that previously music or sound. Previously, on an old-timey podcast. After six highly successful seasons, the I Love Lucy show came to an end. Sort of. The half-hour version was done, but the public wanted more. So Lucy and Desi gave them more by creating hour-long, less frequent shows featuring the same old characters the audience had come to love. They called it the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour. The audience still tuned in, but the cast was kind of tired. The new show felt like a long drawn-out goodbye. And that's because Lucy and Desi weren't ready to say goodbye to Lucy and

Ricky. Lucy and Ricky had a happy marriage. Lucy and Desi didn't. Lucy and Ricky brought in a lot of money for Desi Lou productions. And with Desi Lou's recent acquisition of RKO, the pressure was on like never before. That acquisition made Desilu a major Hollywood studio. But the pressure of running Desi Lou while continuing to play Ricky Ricardo took a toll on Desi. He leaned in harder to his vices, drinking, gambling, and cheating on Lucy, and he became less discreet. In today's episode, Lucy and Desi get divorced, and Lucille Ball becomes a boss. I'm bossy. Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da.

I don't really know that song very well. That's right. I brought all the boys to the yard, and that's right. Wow, you do kind of know that song. I'm the one y'all love to hate. I told young stunner. Something like that. Do we say something like that?

I can tell you no more. I can tell. I know a little more than I'm letting out. Yeah, he's pretending to be ignorant. It's a really good song. Good production. I'm super excited to hear about someone's divorce. Real gossipy.

Let's go. I mean, you are going to feel like you're getting an insider's peak here under the covers. Get it? Because there are a couple. Picture it. 1958. Lucy and Desi owned RKO Studios. It was kind of surreal.

RKO was where they'd met. It was where Lucy had worked for seven years. Lucy and Desi had come a long way, baby. Not even ten years earlier, they'd struggled to get network executives to just take a chance on them. And now, their company, Desi Liu, was a Hollywood powerhouse.

They were right up there with MGM, 20th century Fox, and Warner Brothers, which I spelled Wartner Brothers, but that's fine. This is like the Canadian version of one another. Did they go by RKO or did they rename it to Desilu? No, it was Desi Lou, bitch. Okay.

But they had King Kong, right? Yeah, they had all the cool props. It was wonderful. And Desi was president of all of it. Lucy was the vice president. But by all accounts, her focus was on performing. And that was great news for all of Desi Lou's male executives because who wants to report to a woman.

Am I right? Got that right. Just being a woman is unprofessional, I say. Yeah. One of the first things Lucy did when they took over RKO was go back to that little theater where Ginger Moms, where Ginger Rogers' mom. Ginger Moms.

Where Ginger Rogers' mom, Lila, had given Lucy and a bunch of other contract players acting lessons. Lucy wanted to revamp that little theater and hold classes for promising young actors. Well, that's sweet. It is, isn't it? What was the name of the theater? I don't know. Damn it.

What the hell? It might not have even had a name. A theater with no name. It's just called theater. Well, it's just a little theater on the lot, you know, where they're teaching classes. They probably did have a name. God damn it, Norm. It was the Crystal Light Arena.

Wow. Yeah. Incredible. Folks, we are not sponsored by Crystal Light, just so it's clear. We're working on it. We are working on it. We're not, though. Body's working overtime.

We're trying to launch this pig butter business. We've got an army of Ginger moms trying to secure that Crystal Light sponsorship for us. We've got all the faith in the world in them. Is Ginger an offensive term? No. What are you talking about? Someone with red hair and pale skin and freckles. If you call them a ginger, is that offensive?

You know what that says about you? What? It shows that you hold gingers in low esteem if you're like, oh, it must be an offensive term. I didn't know it's, didn't know if it was offensive. You know what this is reminding me of? Well, I'm just sensitive to people's feelings, Kristen. Oh, okay. This is reminding me of, oh, there's that episode of the office where Oscar says his parents are from Mexico.

I can't remember what exactly he said. Uh-huh. And Michael goes, okay, is there a less offensive term than Mexican? That's what you're making me think of with his ginger an offensive term. Just want to make sure. Some of the Desi Lou executives were not happy about this crystal. The Crystal Light Arena. Yes, thank you.

Acting school for tots. For one thing, it would be expensive. And for another, there wasn't a clear. clear payoff. But just as he'd done so many times before, Desi reminded the men that if it weren't for Lucy, they'd be nowhere. Keeping the star happy was a worthwhile investment. And she owns the damn company. Do what I want. Well, you know, it's the two of them. Okay. So while Lucy tutored young actors, Desi brokered deals. They launched new shows. And they didn't just stick to comedy. For example, in 1958, they produced a standalone show called The Time Element.

The Time Element. The Time Element. What kind of show was it? Kind of a weird one. Sci-fi, drama, comedy. Hey, guess what? I've got more things to say. So if you just hang tight.

Well, you're leaving me hanging. Taking these long breaths. Tell me, baby. I'm sorry for breathing. You're teasing. My God. Spill the beans. Yeah, it was kind of a weird show, but Desi and Lucy believed in it.

It aired on CBS, and people were like, what the hell did I just watch? And how do I watch more of it? Oh, people were into it? Very into it. The reaction was so strong that CBS asked for a full series, and that little stand-alone show became the Twilight Zone. What? Really? Yeah. Do-da-d-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.

I fucking love the Twilight Zone. Really? It seems very you to love the Twilight Zone. One of my favorite old-timey shows. You've got Lucy and Desi to thank. That's amazing. I had no idea. Yeah.

Have we ever watched The Twilight Zone together? No, I would never like intentionally put on something that would scare me. Now, if somehow I'm bamboozled into it, then I can't look away. I'm obsessed and I'm loving it. But I would never be like, you know what I'm going to do right now? scare the shit out of myself. So no, we have not watched the Twilight Zone together. But maybe we should.

There's a great episode called, I think it's called, like, terror at 10,000 feet or something. And it's William Shatner, and he's on a plane. And he sees, like, this creature gremlin on the wing of the plane. And he's like, there's something out there. There's something on the wing. Something. Oh, wow. That's, yeah, it's all coming together.

Okay. And then there's another one where aliens come to Earth. And they're like, yeah, we're here for peace. I want to say there was like a food shortage in the world and these aliens came and they're like, we're going to like feed everybody. But in reality, they were going to eat everybody. Everybody, I just want you to know that the reason this is going to have to be seven parts is because Norman is now going to tell us the plot of every Twilight Zone episode that he can remember. And then there's another great one.

Desi Lou had a bunch of hit shows. the business was doing really well. But Lucy and Desi? Not so much. Not so much. They still respected one another's professional opinions and still demanded that other people treat their spouse with respect. But their relationship was getting progressively and undeniably worse.

Lucy suggested they try counseling. But Desi wasn't super into the idea. No, thanks. I'm good, thanks. Yeah. She eventually persuaded him into at least talking to a couple counselors. A couple counselors or a couples counselor? Oh, sorry, a couple counselors.

Okay. But Desi was a charmer, norm. And he always found a way to change the dynamic. So he charmed the therapists? Let me tell you what he did, because this is next level. For example, okay, I mentioned in a previous episode that Lucy was super into this guy, Norman Vincent Peel. He was the author of The Power of Positive Thinking.

He had that church in New York. So Lucy and Desi met with Norman Vincent Peel to talk about their relationship problems. And Desi was like, wow, Norman, you are so smart and dynamic. You know what? I'd like to offer you your own TV show. Oh, give me a fucking break. They talked to Dr. Smiley Blanton, author of the hilariously titled book, Love or Parish. His name Smiley?

Yeah, isn't that cute? Dr. Smiley Blanton, author of Love or Perish. And Desi was like, oh my gosh, you are so great. And hey, oh, wait, didn't your wife just write a book? You know what? I'd like to adapt it for a production. Is he like bribing all these therapists? To me, sure, it's bribery.

It's also, I'm going to totally change the power dynamic. So if you're an egomaniac, which I think probably Norman, Vincent Peel certainly was. Guys named Norman. Watch out for them. They're just quoting goofy movies all the time. High on crystal light. If Desi's saying to this man who clearly is a huge self-promoter, saying, I think you should have your own TV show.

Then do you think that man is going to be like, hang on, you're cheating on your wife? He's not going to ask those tough questions in therapy. He's not going to be as likely to like. Because he doesn't want to ruin his deal. Of course not. Yeah, we get it. Oh, all right. Well, you were asking questions.

I didn't know if maybe it was too high level. I guess bribery just wasn't the right word. That's all. All right. My apologies. Fine. So yeah, therapy never quite worked out. And I'm putting a lot of the blame on Desi here, but you should know that one time Lucy went to see a therapist,

and the therapist asked about her childhood, and she was like, I had a very happy childhood. And then she was just done with that therapist. Yeah. I feel like therapy has become a lot more accepted these days than probably back then. It has. But also, you and I were. talking a couple weeks ago when my therapist was like asking about childhood and it was like, oh God, do we have to?

You know? And he said, oh, look out there. Look out the window. What is that? That's right. Just trying to distract your therapist, you know. I said, you know what? You know what?

You should have your very own podcast. And we could record it for you. And she was like, that's actually a thing that everyone has and is not cool at all. And we'll call it get confidence, stupid. That would be an amazing. therapy podcast. I stole that joke, sorry. I know you still, everyone knows that you stole your jokes from The Simpsons. Yeah. Boy, you look so ashamed. I'm just waiting. I'm waiting for the militia to rebel against me because of how unoriginal I am. You don't even have a name for your militia yet. Wait

until you've got a name and then you fuck up and then they'll rebel against you. Okay. Ride this high, sir. The truth was, the problems that had plagued Lucy and Desi from the beginning of their relationship had never really gone away. Lucy was still deeply insecure and Desi suffered from alcoholism and was unwilling to look inward. The years of Desi's infidelity had made Lucy angry and resentful. They started their marriage under what felt like a spotlight, but in retrospect, that had been nothing. Now they were in a spotlight that was brighter and bigger than most of us can even comprehend. They were next level. famous. They were beloved TV stars. They were rich and powerful. They wanted their marriage to work, not just because they cared for one another and not just because they had two children together,

but because they needed their marriage to work. The business demanded it. The public demanded it. Everything's kind of intertwined. It's all connected. It's messy. Yeah. But, I mean, the truth was they slept in separate beds and they didn't spend... Progressive kings, in Queens. No, not really. Not really. No, this isn't. They slept in separate beds for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, it's not just like, hey, you snore, hey, I need my space. It's get away from me, you know. It's not, hey, Norm wants to watch his 25-part documentary on World War II. Everyone. The World at War from 1973, fantastic documentary series. Yeah, I just can't fall asleep to World War II stuff. It can't happen. Lucy and Desi stopped being the fun social couple they'd once been.

No more saltines and cottage cheese and strawberry jam. Unfortunately, no, even though we all know, that's great for a party or just an afternoon at home. By the late 50s, Desi's behavior was so out of control and so blatantly disrespectful that sometimes when they had parties at their house, Desi would hit on women at the party and then take them up to the bedroom and have sex with them in the bed he shared with Lucy. What? Yep. Are you fucking serious?

I am serious. Okay. Well, that's next level. Oh, it's ridiculous. You just shouldn't be married anymore. Well, you're going to love this episode. What's going to happen? That's fucking insane. That is those disrespectful thing.

Yeah. You know, I knew this guy was trouble the first time you mentioned them, Kristen. Uh-huh. Because you're racist. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's that thing of the problems were there from the beginning. And if somebody's not willing to, like, look inward and to do the work on themselves, then shit's only going to get worse. Yeah, I mean, when you're like, I don't eat therapy, I'm fine.

I'm not an alcoholic. I just overdid it the other day. So they were in an unquestionably bad place. Desi wrote down his feelings in, it's an undated note, but it's definitely from the 50s. Here's what it said. I've come to the terrible realization that my wife doesn't love me. She loves her children, her mother, her family.

But as far as I'm concerned, if I behave well, I'm a nice guy to have around. But there's no love. She can't forgive me anything. And the reason why she can't forgive me anything is because she really doesn't love me. I have a sick feeling in my stomach. I've had this feeling before during the Cuban Revolution, during Lucy's commie accusation. And now, the other two times there was something you could fight, but you can't fight this. The woman does not love me.

Poor, poor Desi. I've come to the terrible realization. And it's like a light bulb went off. Give me a break, dude. You did this. Yeah. Gee, I wonder why my wife doesn't love me. Maybe it's because I'm hitting on women in front of her and then having sex with them in the bed we share.

Yeah. I'm shocked. So I think this says, this note says two things. It says Desi has an allergy to accountability. Yep. Because there's not anything in here about, you know. Well, to him, Lucy's the problem. Sure, she's the problem.

Because she won't forgive him. Right. Won't forgive him anything. Yeah. Not a thing. I think it does also say something about how bitter and angry Lucy was, though. She talks about this herself of like, it got so bad and she was so angry at him. And to me that feels like kind of that thing we talked about a little bit last week of she's insecure.

She feels like she can't go on without him. She feels like she can't maybe even be a success without him. And when you don't know your own value and someone's treating you like this, it makes you even angrier because you feel so trapped. Do you know what I mean? You're making faces at me. Well, she has every right to be bitter and angry. Of course. And they just shouldn't be married.

Yeah. There's no question that Lucy hated how many times Desi had publicly humiliated her with his drinking and cheating. But she still respected him as a businessman. She still wanted him to get the credit he deserved. But in the public eye, he was still in her shadow. In September of 1958, Desi bought some thoroughbred horses for the Desi Lou Stables. And the newspaper ran a photo of Lucy. She was the star, even when she wasn't technically part of the story.

And Desi hated that. He'd always hated that. Yeah. He's an insecure man. Yep. Despite the cracks in the marriage, Desi Lou was still going strong. And in December of that year, the company went public. Really?

Yeah. On the stock market? Where else do you go public? I don't know. on the streets, set up a little booth. Everybody opens up their trench coats. Yep. Desi and Lucy each got about $2.5 million, and they each retained 25% of the stock.

Adjusted for inflation, that's about $27 million. Very expensive. Nice little pay out there. Lucy took her money and invested it. Smart. And Desi took his money and paid off debt. Also smart. Sure.

But also, why did he have all that debt? Oh yeah, I guess I didn't think about that. Gambling. Oh. I'm sure there were other things, too. He wasn't like borrowing money from seedy folks, was he? Oh, I don't know about that. Some Italian mobsters.

Wow. Stay tuned. Mobsters will be mentioned in this episode. Oh, boy. Okay. Going public was exciting, but it turned up the pressure on Desi. He was still acting in the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour. He was still the president of the company.

and now he had to answer to shareholders. Desi Liu continued to make a lot of really successful shows, but most of the shows wouldn't really ring bells today, so I'm not going to mention them. But the one that really stands out from that era is the Untouchables. Have you heard of this? Oh, yes. This is like a mobster.

Wow, you know this one? Yeah, the Untouchables. So The Untouchables. was set in the Prohibition era, and it was about federal agents who were trying to track down Al Capone. The show was groundbreaking. It was gritty and violent and sexual. And then they made a movie, The Untouchables in like the early 90s. Yeah, and I think they tried to reboot it.

I can't remember now in like the 90s. But Desi designed it to feel like a documentary. He wanted people to feel like they were watching real crimes take place. A true crime, if you will. Desi even hired famous radio broadcaster Walter Winchell to serve as the voice of the show. The same guy who... Yes, okay, tell him, Norm. Go ahead and tell it. This is the same guy who...

Nearly ruined them. Yeah, who ruined them, yeah, accused Lucy of being a communist over the radio. Yeah, Lucy was like, are you kidding me, Desi? You're hiring that guy who, like, nearly took us down. And, you know, Desi was like, yeah, I think he'd... be the right person for the show, so I'm hiring him. With Walter Winchell as the narrator, the Untouchables felt even more like a true crime show. The show came out and audiences loved it. It was a huge hit. Although, you know, because of all the sex and violence, people sometimes

had to watch through their fingers because they were so scandalized by it. Like the little emoji. That's right. The Untouchables actually got Desi in some hot water norm. Really? With who? A couple people. For one thing, Frank Sinatra hated the show. I guess there was this thing where Desi went into a restaurant. Frank Sinatra was there. Desi went over to say hi. Frank Sinatra was like, hey, you know, this show paints Italians in a bad light.

And so Desi talked to him a little bit. And after talking for like two seconds, it was very clear that Frank Sinatra had not actually seen the show. And Desi was like, dude, get over yourself. and he said some kind of mean things, but it was actually kind of a sick burn. And then Desi went over to the bar and just had a drink, and Frank Sinatra was really embarrassed in front of all his friends. Wow. There you go. And that took place at the Olive Garden.

Thank you. No, it didn't. Twas a Fazoles. I feel like Fazoles. That was their old jingle. No, it wasn't. I feel like Fazoles. I feel like Fazoles.

but sang in kind of a slow, sexy way? If only they got Frank Sinatra to do it. I feel like Fazoles. That was a terrible Frank Sinatra. Yeah, I don't, I don't, you think I can sing? Give me a break. I'm doing my best over here. Oh, my.

Did you go to Fazoles a lot? Did you feel like Fizzolese? Well, prepare to be disappointed. You know, I have an Italian family. They would laugh at me if I went to Fizzolese. Please. Probably, yeah. I've been to Olive Garden, though. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, when you're there, you feel like family. Oh, my God. That's great. You want to know another person who was really mad at Desi? Lucy. Well, yeah, I already mentioned her for a number of reasons. Let me check my list. Tallulah Bankhead.

Oh, well, she wasn't mad at him. You know, she just understood that he had a temper because he was fat and he was worried about it. I got to say the history hose loved the mention of Tallulah Bankhead, and they demand a Tallulah Bankhead episode. I am kind of intrigued by her now. I am wondering if she would be a good episode. She's a character. Not to mention her coot-coot was out many times in the last episode. My goodness, Tallulah, please.

Okay, so if you'll recall, when Desi came to the United States, he enrolled in high school and his BFF in high school. High School. Al Capone Jr. Yes. Well, what do you think Al Capone's son thought of this TV show? He said, hey. Oh, hey. I don't like it. He didn't like it so much.

Another way to say that is he disliked it so much that he looked himself in the mirror, Norman. And you know what he did? He said, let's go to court. That's right. He sued Desi. He lost, so. What was he suing over? You made my dad.

You made my daddy look bad? I'm sure it was like defamation or some shit. I don't know. But it's like, dude, your dad was Al Capone. Okay, how about you calm down? You called my father a duck out daddy. And you called my mother a cuddles for cash cutty. We all know what that means.

We sure do. That should have been a tier name on Patreon. Boy, what a missed opportunity. It's incredible to me that the government could not arrest Al Capone on any of the heinous shit he did, but they got him on tax fraud. They will get you on something. They'll find something. He'd be a good episode.

I say episode as if that wouldn't be like a series that takes over our lives entirely. I could do Al-Cabone in one episode. Oh, yeah? Give me like 30 minutes. I got you. I've got the Wikipedia entry right here. All this to say, Desi had good instincts. He had an eye for entertainment.

When he was sober, there was no one better than Desi. But when he was drunk, people got worried. Desi Lou executives learned that if they had something important to discuss with Desi, they needed to do it before 10 a.m. They had to catch him before he started drinking, or at least before he was too drunk to make good decisions. Everyone knew that Desi Lou couldn't keep going like this. Lucy and Desi couldn't keep going like this.

And so, on May 14th, 1959, Lucy and Desi decided to fix their marriage by going on vacation. Oh, I was going to say a couple's retreat. This is my favorite thing. Okay. Vacation to save the marriage. Yeah. All right. Where did they go?

Where didn't they go, Norman? First, I have to pause and talk about... Sponsored? No. Oh. What? No. Well, when you say first, I'm not.

I have to pause and talk about it. I immediately think, oh, sponsored. And I didn't know anything about a sponsor. We are unfortunately not sponsored. I just want to talk about the phenomenon of being unhappy and then going on vacation and thinking that that's going to fix things. Oh, that's like one of your favorite SNL sketches. Will you describe the sketch to the people?

It's called like, it's Adam Sandler and he's like, he runs like a touring company for Italy. It's called like Romano tours. Yes, out of like New Jersey. He's like, oh, we'll take you through Sicily and Naples. But just a warning, if you're sad here, you're going to be sad over there. We cannot fix your sadness. I think that is the best premise for a sketch. Yeah, it's very funny.

I just think it's a thing that a lot of people do. I remember I did this several years ago. We took a trip to Puerto Rico. and I was working this job. I couldn't stand. And I had like no creative outlet at that time. And I was just sad. And I remember I planned this trip for us.

And I was, you know, just looked forward to it for months. And we got there and it was beautiful and the food was so good. And everything was great. And then like three days in, I realized I'm still sad. It was devastating. I, on the other hand, had a wonderful time. Oh, good for you. It was a good trip, but it's just funny how, like...

That was when I first quit my job to do gaming a story in full-time. Oh. Maybe I was also jealous of you at the time. Hmm. Now we're digging deeper. Yeah, Puerto Rico is awesome. And you should go there if you want to fix your life entirely. So Lucy and Desi decided to do.

you go on a six-week European vacation. Twas a cruise, okay? I found out long ago. Mm-hmm. It's a long way down the holiday road. What? Holiday Road. Oh, oh, oh, ode, ode.

What the fuck are you? Is this a Disney song? Is this a goofy movie? Lindsay Buckingham. Holiday Road. Oh, oh, sorry. It's like the theme song to the vacation movies. Oh, well, I apologize.

It certainly took me a while to catch on, but I'm here now and I'm very happy. I've got my permuda shorts on. You were just like, I was. I had no clue. Okay, six-week European vacation. Yep, to fix the marriage. Are we ready? Yep.

Okay, instead of going as just a couple, Lucy wanted to take the kids, so they took the kids. And Lucy also. Mistake number one. You think so? It's six weeks. To fix your marriage? Okay, yeah. Send them to summer camp.

All right. Well, they also brought along Lucy's cousin, Cleo, and her husband. Oh, well, this is not going to do anything. Are you kidding me? Yeah, it does cut down the romance factor when you bring the kids and the cousin. They set sail for London. And while they were in London... Wait, set sail?

They took a boat? It's a cruise, Norman. What do you think a cruise is? Sorry, I forgot you said cruise is. Listen, sir. Sorry. I was like, that's going to take forever. They should have flown.

Sorry, you did say cruise. Uh-huh. So they set sail for London because of Norm, they were in a cruise ship, all right? I don't know how much more I can give you the simple version of this. While they were in London, a bunch of reporters came up to them because, you know, they're famous. It's so exciting. And, you know, amidst all the chaos, Lucy and Desi kind of lost sight of their daughter for, like, a few seconds. This is the plot to Home Alone.

It certainly is, and they realized they'd left her back home. Oh, my God. Lucy! You're like, Kevin! Wow, that was beautiful for all those folks at the $10 level, that was worth it right there, just seeing Norm's beautiful face like that. Home Alone was a Desilu production. It was not, you liar.

Little Lucy is lost. I mean, lost with a lower-case L. It's just a few seconds. So they kind of look around and they discovered that one of these paparazzi tabloid reporter assholes had taken their child like behind a potted plant and was asking her questions like, is it true that your mommy and daddy fight a lot? Will you tell me about that? Oh, yeah.

Did Desi go crazy? They were pissed. Did someone become Dumbo's mom? I can't remember exactly what happened after we're. I just know that Lucy was especially angry. Big Lucy. Little Lucy, poor thing, probably confused. That's awful.

The next stop was Paris. And somehow that was even less fun because they didn't have I Love Lucy in France. So French people knew Lucy from her movies, but they had no idea who Desi was. And that made Desi upset. Dude, give me a break. You're on vacation. It's to get away from all this stuff. But he's still the same sad desi.

It's true. If you're threatened by your wife's success in California, you'll still be threatened by her success in Paris. That's true. Okay. You're right. These are the laws. The laws of Romano tours. That's right. All of a sudden, he was back where he'd been at the start of their marriage,

where she was a big star, and he wasn't. They visited a friend in Paris, and after seeing Lucy and Desi together, the friend got really worried. He took Lucy aside and said, hey, I know that the end of a relationship can seem like the worst thing on earth. But the reality is that staying together after the love is gone is so much worse. Yeah, you know things are bad when your friend has to tell you that. Well, they can see it from the outside. Yeah. And, you know, that's a good friend.

Absolutely. Yep. After Paris, they set sail for Rome, but Desi had accidentally left his coat in Paris, and someone forwarded it to him. And they addressed the package to Mr. Ball. And Desi lost his ever-loving shit. Yeah. Cleo later said that Desi was fall down drunk for the rest of the trip. And Lucy later said,

I was completely disenchanted, bitter, and unforgiving. And the kids saw and heard way too much. Here's my problem with this bullshit. Hmm. Okay, so he hates that, like, he doesn't feel like an individual, basically. Mm-hmm. But the problem is he's blaming his wife for this. Mm-hmm.

He's resenting his wife. Because his wife is very talented and successful. Mm-hmm. It's her fault. People don't recognize him as an individual person. And I just think that's, that's, that's, that's, that's misogynistic and it's bullshit. Yeah, no, it's, he is resenting the fact that she is much more famous than he is. And the annoying thing about that is she was always much more famous than he was.

Yeah. From the beginning. Even when they met. But I submit that that is why he wanted to be with her. Because she was more successful? I think so. It's that thing of hunters, you know. You, this is a rough thing I'm about to say.

Wait, do you say hunters? Yeah, hunters. Like people that shoot animals, hunters? Yes, yes, that's what I'm saying. Okay, where's this going? If you kill a buck and a big buck, you might get that head stuffed and put it on the living room wall because wow look what you did that's a big buck what you wouldn't do is display you know a fawn on your living room wall that you didn't you didn't do shit yeah it's like a

trophy for him yeah but the trophy is supposed to just be a trophy and a woman is going to keep going, keep thriving. And that's what Lucy did. She got bigger and bigger and bigger. And I think if Desi had had it the way he might have envisioned it, it would have been they'd gotten married. And yes, she's this big star, but then she stays home with the kids. She doesn't. And uses her connections to lift up Desi. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what he may be envisioned. That's what I always think, Because there are a lot of men like this who they marry a woman who is successful. They know she's successful. They were with her in part because she was successful.

And then, you know, however many years down the road, they resent her success. And they want her to stop being successful. Yeah. And, you know, I think women, we kind of get like our heads spin because it's like, I was this way when we met. That's the reason he wanted you. He wanted to, he wanted a trophy. And if he found a woman who was like, I just want to stay home and have kids, which there's nothing wrong with that, that's not going to be as appealing to him.

In a good relationship, you lift each other up. You root for each other's success in whatever, whatever you want to do. And in a good relationship, you've got crystal light packets scattered throughout the home. Not scattered. They are in a central location and you know where they are, and you can pick out which flavor you want before you record your podcast. Yeah, it's not pandemonium here. Today I have peach mango.

Wow. As recommended by a history hoe. Did that all make sense what I just said? Yeah, well, it makes total sense. In conclusion, Desi is a big dippy boy baby. Yeah. And go, go, go, my wife's successful. Mm-hmm.

Wham-wah. Very good. I'm ready for him to go. I can tell you are, you are sick of this shit. Desi, you fired. Oh, gross. That was that. That was terrible.

I hated it. And we will now move on. All right. It's just, it's from my favorite reality show, The Apprentice. Yeah, great. I wonder what ever happened to the host of that show. Yeah, who knows? Probably just off being successful.

Anyhow, ultimately, the vacation didn't save their marriage, Norman. If anything, it made it worse. It definitely made it worse. Yeah. When they got back to the States, Desi stayed in the guest house. Things got more tense at work. Lucy and Desi refused to speak to one another, which was, you know, a real challenge because they were starring in a TV show together and also running a company together.

Yeah. They resorted to really immature power struggles. This is when emails would come in handy. Oh, so handy. This is before emails. I guess you could just send telegrams back and forth. They're so rich they could send literal people back and forth, which is. just what they did. Well, you go tell him.

Norman, you don't even know. Oh, I can't wait. Neither of them wanted to be the first to arrive on set, okay? So the crew had to scramble just to make sure that they arrived at the exact same time. That's annoying. Oh, it gets better. When they were in the same room and clear earshot of one another, Desi might be like, so-and-so, tell Miss Ball to blah, blah, blah, blah.

And Lucy would be like, so-and-so, please tell Mr. Arnaz to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, that's so stupid and so immature. It sounds like something that would happen in an actual episode of I Love Lucy. I mentioned in last week's episode that Desi had some run-ins with the police. But, you know, he always got the Hollywood treatment. He'd be drunk and disorderly. But they wouldn't arrest him. They'd just take him back home.

Well, in September of 1959, that changed. Desi was arrested and jailed for drunkenness. and Desi, who was usually so charming, was a bit of an ass when he got to jail. Ladies and gentlemen, we got him. That's what the police chief said. Oh, I thought you were saying that because you're so sick of him. Yeah, I'm saying it too. I think I'm going to have you guess.

Ooh, this is fun. Okay. So Desi's in jail now. He's not being charming. He's being a bit of an ass. Okay. And he wants to make a phone call, damn. who does he want to call?

What's the most obnoxious thing he could request? Ooh. I'm going to guess the president of the United States, the governor of California. Not big enough. President, a little too big. Governor, no. We got to go bigger, okay?

Bigger than governor. Absolutely. Senator? Fuck a governor. Fuck a senator. Ew. Vice president? Uh-uh. Not powerful enough.

Secretary of State? Wait, vice president is not powerful enough? That's kind of... So somewhere between vice president and president is the person they're kind. I think other people might disagree that this person would be between president and vice president, but I'm going to go with it. Okay, who was it? We're looking for J. Edgar Hoover. Oh, yeah, not as... Well, he was a very powerful man at the time.

Yeah. Yeah. So the director of the FBI. Yeah. Okay, you just arrested me because I'm drunk as a skunk, and I am insisting on calling the director of the FBI. Yes. Call my good friend who goes to the horse race track with me. Uh-huh. Did they let him call J. Edgar Hoover? I don't know.

I just know that newspapers reported on Desi's arrest, and they included that detail about how he had insisted on being allowed to. call J. Edgar Hoover. Did he, I wonder if he called and J. Edgar Hoover didn't pick up. That'd suck. Damn. Kind of embarrassing. Were answering machines around back then? No. I don't think so. But I bet if anyone has an answering service or some kind of something, it's J. Edgar Hoover.

Am I right? Believe it or not, I'm not at home. I'm the director of the FBI. I would pick up, but I'm not. at home. Where could I be? History whole work. When we're answering machines invented. Now I want to know. The newspapers did not include this fun detail, but Desi had been arrested outside of a brothel. The report was embarrassing enough as it is. Cudels for Cash Cutties.com. I already bought the domain name.

People are going to be pissed if they go to that website and they don't see some cuddles for cash cuties. Cuties. It's going to redirect to old-timey podcast, the RSSB. That would be amazing. People will come to this podcast, hoardy as hell, and leave. With some new knowledge and information. Yeah. And I'll say, thank goodness for Kristen and Norman Caruso.

They took my boner away. But they filled my head with knowledge. Oh. Lucy was really pissed off, obviously. She's been pissed off for like the past five years. Maybe I need to stop even saying it. Fun fact, Desi was also mad. Oh, yeah.

He was like, I stood up for you when you were accused of being a communist. Why can't you stand up for me right now? Which is just the most obnoxious thing on earth. Yeah. Annie's pissed that he got Jay Edgar Hoover's answering machine, that obnoxious song. So everyone knew that their marriage was on the rocks and reporters asked about it and Lucy tried to be upbeat. but, you know, that was tough. And also the truth was so obvious.

And that became undeniable in November of 1959 when they filmed one of their Lucy Desi Comedy Hour episodes. Okay. They were taping the episode The Ricardo's Go to Japan. Oh, I bet this wasn't an offensive episode in any way. Oh, my God. Yeah, you knew where I was going. You saw it in my eyeballs.

I've talked about, I've talked in previous episodes about how. there are some plot lines and some jokes that, boy, have not aged well. No, probably didn't. I mean, probably weren't great at the time. This one really takes the cake. Post-World War II TV show about visiting Japan. Yeah, I bet it was very offensive. Norm, I'm going to play another guessing game with you here.

For this episode, Lucy and Ethel were dressed. up as gauges. Yep. Full makeup, too. Very cool. Not a thing wrong with it. Not weird at all.

That makeup made it very obvious that Lucy had been crying. Oh, interesting. And while she was on set, you know, trying to get it together. A reporter came up to her. And I think this guy was just trying to kind of build her up

and take Desi down, you know, kind of maybe even just bait her into saying something negative about Desi. And he said something to her like, you know, the show only works because of your talent. And Lucy, who's sitting there in this geisha costume with her makeup running everywhere, just went off on the guy. She said, that's where you're wrong. Desi did three camera. Desi built this studio. He never got credit for being the greatest straight man in the business. After they finished that episode, Desi and Lucy went to his office and started arguing about something.

They'd argued countless times over their nearly 20-year marriage. But this time was different. This time, Desi said he wanted a divorce. Lucy didn't say a word. She just walked away. Later, when Desi came home that night, she asked him if he'd meant what he said. And Desi said yes. He told her he couldn't keep living that way.

So Lucy says, and maybe she didn't, but according to Desi, Lucy says, why don't you die then? That would be a better solution. Better for the children, better for everybody. Desi, I'm sorry, but dying is not on my immediate schedule, Lucy. I'll tell you something, you bastard, you cheat, you drunken bum. I've got enough on you to hang you. By the time I get through with you, you'll be as broke as when you got here. You goddamn.

And then went into racist insults. Desi moved out of the house. What do you think of that? The argument? Yeah. I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Shut up. Do you think it's just unbelievable that it went down that way?

The source is Desi. Mm-hmm. So take it with a grain of salt. Okay. Does Lucy mention in her biography how that argument went down? No. Lucy was much more careful about talking about the end of their marriage.

You know, not going into the level of detail. Yeah, I only say that because only two people heard that conversation. Mm-hmm. And it sounds like Desi made himself to be very calm and collected and... Yeah, and honestly... You just have to consider where it came from. Sure, sure. He might have been calm and collected.

But that doesn't mean he's blameless in my mind. Yeah, I don't know. It just doesn't track with his behavior. Oh, I think it does. I think, you know, when someone can be charming and, you know, a little manipulative and whatever, they can be calm infuriatingly calm when they need to be. Desi and Lucy were done. But to make things incredibly complicated, Lucy and Ricky weren't done.

They were still America's favorite couple. Oh, so they have to, like, pretend. They still had a studio together, and they still had one more episode as Lucy and Ricky Ricardo. This is pure hell. Well, at least they only have one more episode. I bet you that one more episode felt like a whole season. Slide naked down a cheese grater, as they say. Is that what they say?

That's what they always say. That'd be painful. That final episode of the Lucy Adolph, Desi Comedy Hour came out in February of 1960. The episode is titled Lucy meets the mustache. In it, Lucy tries to help Ricky's career, but there's a mix-up where she accidentally gets Little Ricky a job instead of Big Ricky, and it's just a mess. And Lucy tries to fix everything by dressing up as this famous guy's chauffeur, you know,

it's a whole thing. And that episode, like all the I Love Lucy episodes and all the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour episodes, was supposed to end on a happy note. According to the script, Lucy was supposed to say, honest, honey, I just wanted to help. And Ricky was supposed to say, from now on, you can help me by not trying to help me, but thanks anyway.

And then they were supposed to kiss. When they taped the show, each of them got through their lines. And then it was time for that kiss. Desi wrote about that moment in his book. He said, this was not just an ordinary kiss for a scene in a show. It was a kiss that would wrap up 20 years of love and friendship, triumphs and failures, ecstasy and sex, jealousy and regrets, heartbreaks and laughter, and tears.

The only thing we were not able to hide was the tears. After the kiss, we just stood there looking at each other and licking the salt. Then Lucy said, you're supposed to say cut. and I said, I know, cut, God damn it. Lucy and Desi were crying. It was the end of their show, the end of their marriage, the end of an era. When they looked around them, they saw that the casting crew, many of whom had been with them since the start of the I Love Lucy show, were crying to. A few months later, on March 3rd, 1960, Lucy filed for divorce. She went to court that day to testify in front of a judge.

Ultimately, she'd keep two of their homes. He'd get one plus their ranch. They'd each get 25% of the Desi Lou stock and joint custody of the kids. Looking back, Lucy would refer to the divorce as the lowest point in her life. She felt like she'd failed. She worried about the kids.

She grieved what she'd lost because through it all, she'd always loved Desi. And then there was the public side, of the divorce. All the public had seen was Lucy and Ricky. They didn't want Lucy and Ricky to get a divorce. Lucy received thousands of letters from heartbroken and sometimes angry fans asking her to reconsider. I was just thinking how awful that must have been. Oh, yeah. Okay, tell me more. You play a loving couple on television. It's your biggest success in life. Yeah. Yeah. And,

And you've shattered the perception of people by getting that divorce. And so, yeah, you are going to get letters from weirdo fans who were like, maybe you should actually get back together with him. Yeah. That's horrible. Yeah, that'd be a horrible emotional roller coaster. It'd be horrible also because, like, that's like a super divorce. It is.

It is not just a regular divorce. It's super mega divorce. I feel like I've said this a couple times now. But just like this time period, it's unlike anything that could possibly happen to anyone today. I mean, there's no comparison. There were much fewer famous people. And here's this famous couple. And they're known for working together as this happy couple.

And everyone loves them. I'm trying to think of a modern equivalent. Excuse me, sir. I've told you. There is no modern equivalent. What about like when Princess Diana and Prince Charles got a divorce? Oh. But like that was a huge deal, wasn't it?

Yeah. I think that's, gosh, that's weird. It's kind of comparable that we would have to resort to royalty. To find a comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe when Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey break up. But okay, even the thing with Charles and Diana.

I imagine if people got mad about that divorce, it was more about what it does to the institution. Whereas people who watched Lucy and Desi playing Lucy and Ricky, they fell in love with what they thought was something real. Yeah. Even the Catholic Church tried to intervene and stop. Yeah, they didn't have anything else to worry about. So they intervened on Lucille Ball's marriage. Yeah, they were like, why can't you just take Desi and move him to another place? And then if something bad happens again, you just move him to another place.

Yeah, and then it'll be okay. But, you know, stay married. Yeah. Have I run this joke out enough? I'm glad the Catholic Church chimed in. Me too. I was wondering how they felt about it. It was such a difficult, confusing time.

Lucy had gotten so much public support when she was accused of being a communist. Now that she was getting a divorce, she got no public support. People kept telling her that she was making a mistake, and she wondered if they were right. F these people. They don't know her private life. Or maybe you're making a mistake. And then poor Lucy is running that through her head. It's like, these people do not know you.

They have no idea what you've been through. Yeah. It's not like all the shit that happened in your private life was broadcast to the public on I Love Lucy. Right. Yeah. But I think it also makes it more complicated that divorce wasn't super common in these days. And so it would maybe feel like you were doing something kind of out there. I don't think so at all.

Especially in Hollywood. Oh, that's, that's quite fair. People got married and divorced all the time back then. Her children were devastated. Understandably. And so was Desi. During a performance, he was on stage and he got too drunk and his emotions took over. And he mumbled into the microphone.

I love you, Lucy. Don't do this. And one of Desi's friends was in the audience. It was the actor John Carroll. And he tried to help Desi's save face. So he jumped on stage and just started singing a song, you know. Excuse me. didn't Desi ask for the divorce?

Yeah, he's playing the victim. Oh. She was the one who filed. Classic. Yeah, okay. He asked for it. Yeah, he asked for it, but she's the one who filed, so. You started it, and I finished it.

Yeah. Eventually, Desi checked himself into a hospital where he did a 10-day detox from alcohol. Thank God. But he wasn't to a point yet where he could say that he was an alcoholic. This was the start of an awkward time period. Lucy and Desi were in the midst of a very public, very talked about divorce. Yeah. But they owned a business together.

And for the sake of the business, they had to at least appear to get along. But they have that buyout agreement, right, that we talked about in the last episode. Mm-hmm. They sure do. Sorry, am I premature, you factulating here? You are, but also I don't... I'm about to bust. I don't think you're thinking like a business person right now.

Hey, I was business cat central earlier in this episode. I know you were, but put your business cat hat on. Cat, cat mittens. Put your kitten mittens on. Think this through. Okay, you've got this publicly traded company. All these jobs are dependent on you two. You're the president and vice president.

You're going through a divorce. Yeah. That's enough. And not just a divorce. super mega divorce. Yes, you're going through a super mega, all caps, extreme, hardcore. Obviously, there's no E in extreme when we do it like this. It's just a big X, extreme. Yeah. I guess there are the two other E's. Oh, God damn it. Anyhow, what I'm trying to tell you is you don't then add on. Not only are we getting a divorce, but we're also going to do a buyout.

We're all fucked, royally fucked. No, like the thing you want to do, because you're hoping for the best. is, yeah, we're going to get a divorce. But you know what? We're still working together. We're great friends. Yeah, we're very professional. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like a PR thing, maybe?

Maybe. Hmm, okay. Not a good idea, but all right. Not a good idea. Why do you say that? I just, the relationship was so toxic and even at work they couldn't get along. I don't know. I don't know how fake it till you make it.

I don't think they're going to make it, you know. Okay. For the sake of the best of the. business they had to at least appear to get along, Norman. One source said that at this point in time, it was hard to know whether they loved each other or hated each other. And maybe they themselves didn't even know how exactly they felt about one another. But one thing that is certain is that they respected one another professionally. And now that Lucy and Ricky Ricardo were done, Desi and Lucy had to figure out what was next

for her career. They came up with a couple ideas. She was the entertainer. Yeah. She wanted to keep working. Well, and she's, I don't know that it's fair to say the biggest moneymaker for Desi Liu, but I bet she was. So if the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour is over and we want Desi Lou productions to continue to, you know, maybe it'd be too much to ask for it to thrive at this point, but could we keep it stable, then yeah, Lucy's got to get out and do something. She did a movie called The Facts of Life. Lucy would star alongside Bob Hope and they'd film the whole thing at Desi Lou.

But on the first day of filming, holy shit, Lucy was supposed to step into a boat. I mean, it's supposed to be kind of a nothing thing. Yeah. Step into a boat, but she slipped, fell nine feet and smashed her face so hard that she went unconscious for a few minutes. Oh, no. Oh, it was bad. Desi rushed to the hospital to be with her. and when she was released, he stayed with her and the kids to help her recover.

She ended up being fine, but the close proximity to Desi was an issue. You know, it's still murky. Yeah, yeah. The divorce isn't finalized yet. Little Lucy and Desi Jr. were 10 and 8, and they'd just become obsessed with this new movie called The Parent Trap. Yes. Yeah.

Love the Parent Trap. I love it too. But it makes me sad to think of kids seeing that while their parents are going through a divorce. Because what it did for, you know, and Lucy. Because in that movie. Yeah. They get back together. Yeah.

Lucy Arnett has talked about that of like she was just watching that movie nonstop at this time period and just hoping that what any kid would hope, which is like, yeah, it's all going to work out. They're going to get back together. Disney movie, by the way. Wow. How'd you know, Norm? You know, people are attacking me rightfully so, saying that I really should have known long ago that you were a Disney adult. And I frankly have to agree, you know too much about Disney. Am I a Disney adult?

Yes, you're a Disney adult. Norm, when you were feeling protective of me, you said you were like Dumbo's mom. Yeah. If you're not a Disney adult, I don't know what you are. I'm a monster. You're a monster and a bonnet. And a little matching shawl. So Lucy's dealing with, you know, the kids are devastated.

They want them to get back together. The entire world wants them to get back together. Yep. So she decided to do something kind of drastic. Oh, no. What? Norm, as a non-threatening boy, you don't like drastic things at all. You don't like drastic measures?

Nope. Drastic breast reductions? Drastic. Wait, I don't like drastic. breast reductions. I was just thinking of what's something I could say that would really shock this man right now. That was it. Yep.

In September of 1960, she packed up the kids, packed up her mom, and moved them all to New York. New York City. Ooh. She bought an apartment on the top floor of the Imperial House on the Upper East Side. Actually, she got two, and she tore down a wall between the two. She made one, big one. Yeah. I took that out because I thought that's not necessary to include, but now I just feel like you need to know.

Property Brothers came in. That's right. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to tear down this wall. And here, we're going to give you the sledgehammer, Lucy, and you can knock this wall down. Do you think she would have, she probably would be like, I'm not doing that. No, of course. For the, they've got the cameras there.

That's the only time the property owners actually do any work. Of course you would for the cameras, smile. And oh, here I go. Property Brothers, Celebrity Edition. Would you ever get? that kind of greased up bowl cut that that one property brother has. Greased up bowl cut. It always looks kind of, tell me I'm wrong.

It looks kind of greased up and like it would be a undercut than a bowl cut. Oh, if we get that man in the rain and we just let that hair fall where it may, that's going to look like a bowl cut, I guarantee you. Maybe not, but I would really love that. For the patrons, I should post a photo of my glorious bull cut. You had a beautiful bullcut. You've got the perfect hair for it. Yeah, it was a good one.

Just that straight, non-frizy hair, never giving you a lick of trouble in your whole life? None. Oh, God. All right. Anyway, that's fine. I'm not jealous. Moving on. You know, my brother was a hair model in college.

He made some extra money. Yeah, you fucking Caruso's with your straight, perfect hair. Damn it. I remember finding out that Ryan did. like hair modeling and being like, God damn it, that tracks. You didn't think that. Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

You not that tracks? Yeah. Because you guys all have, well, I've already described how beautiful your hair is. In case you couldn't tell folks, if you're not, you know. Get on that $10 pig butter investor tier. And you'll see, oh, Kristen sometimes battles the frizzies. Oh, Kristen's hair. My sister has frizzy hair.

I mean, that's true. She knows the struggle. Yeah. Anyhow. She's not a hair model like your brother or an award-winning bowl-cut have her. Did you ever watch My Brother and Me? No. On Nickelodeon?

No. What is that? Damn, that was a good show. It was just about this, like, family with, like, a kid and his older brother. It was like a kid's sitcom, basically. And it was called My Brother Me? My Brother and Me. That's the most boring title for a sitcom.

Wow. It was very good. But there weren't that many episodes. I think it was only one. one season. Then it couldn't have been very good. It was excellent. Do you have a lot of foot stuff in it?

Oh, because of, no, this was pre-whatever that guy's name was. Yeah. Pre-Crepo. Sorry, everyone. We watched that Nickelodeon documentary a while back. What was that guy's name? I think it's Dan Schneider, but I might be wrong. Okay, if I'm wrong, we'll have to bleep that name.

I don't think Dan Schneider worked on my brother and me. Okay, well, that's a relief. My militia will know what my brother and me is. They will. Yeah. It was such a great show. Only the greatest shows last for one season, sir. That's how your militia sounds.

It was a black family, too. Oh. Which you didn't see on Nickelodeon. No, that never happened on Nickelodeon. Well, damn, okay. It was a great show. It was very funny, but, yeah. Man, we're really off track today, aren't we?

It's my fault because I told you that extra detail that I knew didn't need to be included. And then you started talking about the property brothers. And here we are. Hey, us history hoes love those extra little details. That's what makes this show so special. So Norm, why did she move to New York?

Why did she get this apartment? Well, it was so that she could perform on Broadway. You know, that was my first thought when I heard she's moving to New York. It's like, oh, because she's going to do a Broadway show. Okay, yeah. She'd actually been talking about this for a while. And of course, as soon as she'd expressed interest in starring in a Broadway show, people jumped at the opportunity to work with her. You know, she's a huge celebrity.

There was this show called A Wildcat, and the lead role had been written with a 27-year-old in mind. Oh, well, that's not Lucille Ball right now. Sure isn't. It was a very high-energy role, Norm. It was a three-hour show that included just non-stop dancing, singing. Lucy certainly had a lot of energy. But as you pointed out, she wasn't 27. She was 49.

And she'd never really been a dancer. And she'd certainly never been a singer. Lucy was scared. She was doing something totally new, kind of on her own. But she was surrounded by really talented people. But they weren't her people. That was kind of the thing about Lucy was she really liked to work with people. she knew that kind of made her feel safer.

Yeah. So she's doing this new thing. Plus, she's devastated and really embarrassed by the divorce. Also, she felt like a shitty mom. And on top of being a wreck emotionally, when she looked in the mirror, she didn't like what she saw. Her whole life, she'd been beautiful. She'd made her living, for the most part, on visual mediums.

And now, in addition to being divorced and pushing 50, she had scar. on her face from when she'd fallen on that movie set. The scars hadn't healed well. The only thing she could do was cover them up with like a lot of makeup. A lot of makeup, yeah. Around this time period, she had to get kind of, it was described as like rubbery makeup, which, my God. So it could like hold better or? It makes me think that maybe it was pretty thick.

Gotcha. And, yeah, was designed to cover texture and, yeah, just. just that's a lot. Yeah. All this to say that Lucy was fragile, but she knew that she wanted to keep going. She wanted to keep performing. And so she did what she always did when she was nervous. She rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed.

Those rehearsals were brutal, but she threw herself into them. She worked seven days a week, starting early in the morning and ending around midnight. She wanted Wildcat to be a hit. In fact, she banked on it being a hit. She planned to stay on Broadway for the next five years. Whoa. Yep. And after that... That's all in.

After that, she and Desi would turn the play into a TV special. It'd be perfect. For a little while, it looked like Lucy had made the right move. Broadway was in a bit of a slump in 1960. But man, as soon as people found out that Lucille Ball was performing on Broadway, Tickets sold out in no time, months in advance. Yeah, that would have been a huge deal. Oh, absolutely.

Number one TV star is now on Broadway. Yeah. Everyone wanted to see Lucy because everyone loved Lucy. And then the show opened. And to Lucy's great disappointment and great embarrassment, it kind of flopped. Not so good. Critics thought it kind of sucked. The show didn't really cater to her strengths.

And the people who showed up to see the play really just wanted to see Lucy Ricardo. Desi had actually warned her and really warned everyone about that possibility. He flew out to see the play early on and he told the playwright, hey, you know, you should probably rework this a bit. And the writer was like, oh, hey, how about you eat my ass? Okay. Whoa. Well, he didn't really say that.

But the playwright was like, no. What did she eat my ass? It's the vibe, okay? That's the vibe. of that conversation. It was uncomfortable for Lucy. She loved to perform. She loved to make people happy.

And Wildcat didn't make people happy. What was Wildcat about? I don't even know. It's like a Western and they're finding oil. And who gives a shit? I care. I mean, we're talking about how this play doesn't use Lucille Ball's strengths. So it's like, okay, well, what?

was the what was the play about? Well, I would argue that what the play is about is not the problem. The problem is that it's relying on her singing nonstop. Yeah. And she was not a very good singer. Dancing nonstop. And, you know, she was okay, but it was three hours. And obviously, she's not on stage the entire time. But it's too much. Well, and it was meant for a 27-year-old and she's 49. Right. Right. Right. Right. I am sorry. I don't know the whole plot of the play. I'm just messing with it. You don't have to apologize. You say, you're damn right. I don't know what the play's about. You just own it, Kristen. I should have made something up. Just own it. Yeah, you could have just told me the plot to a Twilight Zone episode. I just learned about several episodes against my will earlier today, so I'd be happy to do that. So, you know, Wildcats not making people happy, so Lucy did some ad-libbing.

One time a character came out on stage in a nightgown and a long, what do you call those hats? A nightcap? Yes, a nightcap thing. And she said, say, do you know a fellow named Fred Mertz? And the audience went nuts. Oh, so she's doing callbacks to I Love Lucy. see. Yeah, so that was an outfit that Fred would wear sometimes. Yeah, yeah. The audience loved that. Yeah, so they just want to see I Love Lucy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, hey, do whatever you got to do to get people

and do. Oh, what? What the fuck? What? Do whatever you got to do? What? How do you think Broadway people feel about that? Oh, they were like, good heavens. Yep, that's not in the play. That's not in the script. Yeah, you're pandering. You're pandering to the audience. So the play, included a Yorkshire Terrier. Aw, it's so cute. And during one performance, the dog pooped on stage. Hang on. That was a real wet, messy one.

And there happened to be a broom and dustpan on stage two. So Lucy grabbed the broom and dustpan, went over to the dog poop, turned to the audience, and said, it's in the small print in my contract. I have to clean up the dog shit. And of course the audience loved it. So funny. Biggest laugh of the show. She needs to join an improv group.

Right? Yeah. She'd hoped that going on Broadway would be an exciting, fresh start. But the kids didn't like New York. They missed California. They missed their dad. California. Is that what they said?

What's that from? That's from the movie The Wizard. Okay. That's the Nintendo movie. Jimmy has to go compete in the Nintendo Championships. And then what happens? Yeah.

You know Jenny Lewis, singer Jenny Lewis? She's in that movie. Did you know that she once did a sitcom with Lucille Ball? No, she didn't. Yes, she did. Jenny Lewis? Yes. No.

Yes. What sitcom? I'm going to talk about it in next week's episode, so don't you dare look it up. Wow. Do not look it up. Wow, it's like our minds are melded together. I mentioned Jenny Lewis and you're like, yes. Wow.

And you know what? I'm starting to sing some power line songs. Eye to eye to eye. Mm-hmm. If we listen to each other's hearts. So the kids are upset. They're missing their dad. And Lucy was lonely. She wanted to go out, maybe meet somebody. Plenty of fish out there, Lucy.

Well, you know, it was tough because sometimes she'd meet a guy and he was clearly only interested in her because she was Lucille Ball. It was kind of gross. Like maybe he's thinking of how being with her could advance him in some way. Yep. I bet she was very careful with potential partners. Hmm. Was she?

But one night, some of her castmates invited her to go out with them on a double date. Ooh, double date. For that double date, Lucy was paired up with a struggling stand-up comedian named Gary Morton. Gary Morton was tall. He was 13 years younger than Lucy. He had a very obvious toupee. Smoked a bunch of weed. Oh.

Smoked a lot of cigarettes. And Lucy was, you know, maybe a little rude to him at first. She complained about how tired she was and she pulled out a cigarette and kind of tossed it at him and said, light me. And Gary tossed it back at her and said, light it yourself. I'm digging the energy. They're both giving off. Uh-huh. Lucy.

She couldn't believe it. She was so used to people being awed by her. And here was this guy talking to her like she was a normal person. He was calling her out on her shit. She asked him what line of work he was in. And he asked her the same question. Lucy was thrilled. He didn't know who she was.

Gary claimed he'd never seen an episode of I Love Lucy because he'd always worked Monday nights. Shut up. He's so full as shit. Tell me more, Norm. Tell me more. What more do you want to know? Well, never mind.

You don't need to tell me more. Let's hear from Gary's cousin, okay? Gary's cousin was interviewed for the Turner Classic Movies podcast, and he was not nice about his cousin, Gary. He was like, first of all, that story is horseshit. Who in the year of our Lord 1960 hadn't heard of Lucille Ball? Exactly. I'm going to share a quote.

Okay, this is the most amazing quote that's ever been quoted. Okay. He said about his cousin. This guy had nothing going for him. I mean, if she wanted to marry somebody or be with somebody who was the polar opposite of Desi, she found him. Not good looking, not rich, not talented. I figure he was well endowed like Desi, but that's just hearsay.

Kristen, I think that is better than the Gettysburg address. I'm going to move it up my list of greatest quotes of all time. Uh-huh. Yeah. Lucy and Gary started seeing each other, and he made her laugh. He didn't seem to take her too seriously, and that was a much-needed release. She went to a couple of his comedy shows, and at first she held back, but after a while, she was like, hey, what if you tried this or you tried that? And Gary took her advice.

He was grateful for it. If you're getting advice on comedy from Lucille Ball, you take that advice. That was his thinking. Yeah. But for Lucy, it was refreshing to find a man who wasn't threatened by her. You know, I think a lot of male comics even today would be like, so he wasn't threatened by her. And also, he didn't want to be with her just because she was Lucille Ball because he, you know, had no idea about all her. accomplishment because he'd been so busy on Monday nights or whatever. It was kind of intoxicating.

Being with Gary was nice. And Lucy really needed something nice. Okay, I have to pause. I love the interaction with the cigarette. I think that's a brilliant way to treat someone who's mega famous and who you're trying to make a real connection with is to treat them like a normal person. Yeah, like an equal. But boy, I do not like this. Oh, I don't know who you are. I've never seen an episode of this show. Shit.

Yeah, that's clearly a lie. And that means you're being disingenuous. I think the thing I hate about it is in Lucy's autobiography, she writes about that moment and you can tell she believes it. And she loves it. It's so important. And I think when she's at this point in her life, when she's so embarrassed by this public divorce, the idea of, oh, my gosh, I've found the one man on earth who doesn't know me for this thing. Uh-huh.

I fucking hate it. If she wanted a real guy who had never seen I Love Lucy, she should have traveled through the hills of Missouri where they were just getting electricity or someone. Uh-huh. You think she'd find her equal there? Mm-hmm. Yeah, great. Yeah. A lot of good ideas, Norm. Take her on a float trip.

Uh-huh. Yeah. At this point, she was doing eight shows a week on Broadway. Her life was just go, go, go. She was exhausted. But she kept in contact with Desi. He called her every night. And he wanted her back.

He proposed to her again. Oh, dear God. No. Go away. It does appear that Lucy considered, you know, dropping the divorce. But then one night, a couple came backstage after the show, and they told Lucy that they thought they'd found something in Hawaii that maybe belonged to her. It was a gold chain that held a St. Christopher Medal and a wedding ring.

The ring was inscribed to Desi with love from Lucy. Lucy hugged the couple. She thanked them. She thanked them again. And as soon as they left, she sobbed. Desi had lost that jewelry in Hawaii the summer after they'd bought RKO. They'd gotten into a huge fight. He'd gone out for a swim and lost the necklace that held his wedding ring.

It's crazy. They found it. It is crazy, isn't it? That's what's blowing my mind right now. Yeah. They found that. Seeing that wedding ring gave Lucy instant clarity. She later said,

It's funny, but it was then that I knew it was really over. Having that ring in my hands didn't bring the good times back to me. It brought the terrible times back. And I knew it was right. I knew Desi and I could be friends, but that we shouldn't be married. Yep. It's funny. You know, Desi calls us like, I want to marry you again, blah, blah, blah.

And, yeah, I bet your mind would wonder to, oh, what would it be like if we got married again? But then... And not get married again because the divorce isn't finalized yet. Yeah, or just... Let me just cancel the divorce. But then seeing something physically that triggers a memory for you or memories that are bad. Yeah. You know, oh, shit, I'm not.

I'm never going back there. Yeah. So Lucy had this mental clarity. But physically, she was a mess. Wildcat put a lot of stress on her body. And she developed a bone infection that did two things. It caused pain and made her very tired, which, like, that's the worst combination for her at this point. A bone infection.

But she, you know, tried to keep going because everything depended on her. And in the spring of 1961, she collapsed on stage. Her body literally couldn't do the show. And without Lucy, the show closed because nobody wanted to see Lucille Ball's understudy in a shitty play. They wanted to see Lucille Ball in a shitty play. Lucy felt terrible. She personally gave refunds to everyone who'd purchased advanced tickets to the show. It cost her $165,000.

Adjusted for inflation, about $1.7 million. Very expensive. Yeah, but damn, I respect the hell out of that. I do, too. Because there are plenty of entertainers today who would not do that. Yep. They'd say, oh, yeah, I'm canceling my show. Sorry.

Sorry. So with Wildcat Dunn and a reunion with Desi no longer an option, Lucy was utterly lost. She was so unsure of what to do next that she, and this is true, seriously considered moving to Switzerland. Hmm. A drastic change. No shit. Yeah, nice country. Instead, she moved back to California.

And Gary moved into her guest house. California, here we come. Back to where we started from Are you going to sing all the California songs? Yeah, the O.C. You better get to California Girls by Katie Perry. I'm sure it'll come up in a future episode. Absolutely.

Katie Perry's new album's coming out. But I have to tell you history hoes that. Lucy took Gary to parties, introduced him to her friends. There's some quote that I didn't write down. More double dates? Gary said that it was like people looked at him like he was some strange lamp, like he was being examined. A strange lamp. Yeah, yeah, just like, huh, who's this guy?

He's an accessory in the house. Yeah. And then, after only knowing each other for a few months, Gary Morton proposed to Lucille Ball. Oh, no, this is a bad idea. Why is it a bad idea, Norm? You just got out of a 20-year marriage. You haven't known this guy very long. Lucy, you need some...

He's the one. You need some me time, Lucy. No, me time is scary. Me time gives me the time to go, oh, I hate my life. But if I've got a guy here that distracts me, I hate it too. Yeah, but... What are you going to do? I don't think it's a good idea, but I'm guessing they got married.

It was soon, too soon. Her divorce to Desi wasn't even finalized yet. Mm-hmm. She kind of put Gary off with that first. proposal. Later, when they were on a flight to New York, he proposed again, and she hemmed and hawed a little, but ultimately said yes. In her book, Lucy said she accepted Gary's proposal, partly because her mom told her to. That's a good reason. Her mom, Didi, apparently said, Gary is a nice man, and those kids are going to grow up, and you're going to be alone.

Oh, yes, to do it out of fear. Which is kind of interesting because Didi, you know, she'd gotten married very young and her first husband had died and then she'd gotten married again to that guy who turned out to be a huge dud. And from like her 40s on through the rest of her life, she was single. In fact, she once said, and maybe more than once, maybe this was a line, she said something to the effect of you couldn't give me a man if his ass was studded with diamonds and you gave me a gouger to gouge him all out. Is that not the weirdest thing? That's on the top of my quote list. Yeah.

So, but that's apparently what her mom said to her. And, you know, maybe Dee Dee did kind of advise her to marry Gary. But I think the real reason that Lucy said yes was because she was deeply insecure. She'd been cheated on for 20 years. She'd just gone through this very public divorce. She was about to turn 50. Her successful TV show had ended. Her next venture had flopped.

And she'd recently told her cousin Cleo, that she was afraid of dying, quote, loaded and lonely. Loaded and lonely. That's why she got married, I think. That's my favorite Puddle of Mud album. Shut up. I know we all have a lot of favorite Pudud albums. No, this is just coming back to, I wish Lucy saw within herself what she was capable of and, like, how talented and wonderful she was.

Yeah. I wish that too. Yeah. Norman Van Pelt. Van Pelt. What was his name? Norman Vincent Peel. Oh, okay. Norman Vincent Peel tried his damnedest. He officiated the wedding later, so I don't think he really tried to. But, no, it's what's so interesting to me about this is you see this happen all the time with people. you get out of a big relationship and it's traumatic and scary and you don't know what's coming next.

And for a lot of people it's just like, okay, who's first? And that feels so good. I think especially like, you know, Lucy had been cheated on so much. It probably makes you feel undesirable, even though, of course, that's not what cheating is about. But to feel desired, to be excited. and yeah, there might be this thing of, well, I want to show the public that I can get this right. Yeah, I'm more, like, there's plenty of people that have gotten out of terrible relationships and then the first person they meet after is like wonderful and then it's great.

Of course. But my big thing is her basically taking that relationship to the next level out of fear and having no confidence in herself. Yeah. Well, and to be clear, to me, this says nothing about the guy because... No, it doesn't. If the criteria is, who's first? Well, whoever walks in the door next could be a perfectly great guy. I don't think there was anything wrong with Gary Morton.

I think he was full of shit about that, you know, Monday night's story, but I don't think there was anything wrong with him. His cousin said he was ugly as hell. Well, that's not a crime. That's true. If the criteria is who's up next, who's coming around the bend? Well, could be someone great. Could be someone bad.

But it says everything about her that it was just, she kind of falls ass backwards into this guy. And then it's like, well, I better say yes to his proposal because otherwise I could die loaded and lonely. And like, my God, do you know how many men are out there? They're everywhere. I'm looking at one right now. There's so many men. Dime a dozen. Too many men.

Men are a dime a dozen. Let me tell you. Speaking as a man, we're a dime a dozen. You find them everywhere. This guy again? So any history hoes out there, if you're looking for a man, don't worry, they're out there. They're out there. Yeah, I think that's why on November 9th.

19th, 1961, Lucille Ball and Gary Morton got married. And yes, Gary did sign a pre-nup. Lucy was happy. Very loud about how happy she was with Gary. She wanted people to know how happy she was. Desi was a mess over Lucy's marriage. He told the kids to give their new stepdad a chance. But Desi spent the rest of his life referring to Gary as Barry Norton.

Because Desi was kind of petty. Oh, yeah. Being a little shithead. Well, surely Desi found someone new. Well, hang on. Okay. First, we have to talk about how Desi was a business cat. Yeah.

Because, you know, he was having these feelings, but he also knew that whatever they did next would be critical for the success of the studio. The studio needed another hit if it wanted to survive. And, you know, Lucy and Desi both wanted it to survive. Did they have a bunch of duds in the meantime? Like, my brother and me, even though it was an incredible show? I mean, yeah, you're always going to have some duds. And I think the bigger thing is the Lucy Desi Comedy Hour is over. So that's a big loss.

And then this Broadway show that was supposed to be this big thing, that fizzles. And so you got to find something. I have an idea. What? Just do another Lucy show. Great idea. That's what they did. I fucking knew it.

Yeah, even though Lucy wanted to revive her movie career, she agreed to do another sitcom. That was the safest bet. But in order to do another show, she had two demands. Number one, that it air on Monday nights and that they hire Vivian Vance to do the show with her. Bring back Ethel. And Desi made that happen.

The new show would be called The Lucy Show. And it was pretty groundbreaking. Lucy played a widow named Lucy Carmichael, and Vivian played a divorcee. Wait a minute. It was not connected in any way to I Love Lucy. It wasn't in the same universe. Not really.

It was not canonically. So it's, they're doing kind of a weird thing. I don't agree with this. Why not? People just want I Love Lucy again. So just make it the Lucy show and it's like, oh, Lucy and. What are you going to kill Ricky? Yeah, they're dead.

Oh, God. What about Fred? What's going to happen to him? Oh, just be like Lucy and Ethel. start a business together and it's it's about their adventures running the business i don't know i think you're totally wrong i think the idea of trying to cling desperately to what they once had is a huge mistake i don't know you have to change it you have to change it enough that it feels new and it doesn't feel like an apology for not being what it used to be i guess it can

work both ways i it can't because your idea is bad but continue No, I mean, there's been plenty of, okay, so admittedly, like, I love the golden girls, but then when they did the golden palace. Yeah, that sucked. It sucked. Yeah. So, yeah, continuing. Hold on, hold on. Why did it suck?

No, Dorothy. Mm-hmm. Ridiculous premise. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's just not the same. It just wasn't the same. Okay. You know what?

I'm with you now. You've converted me. Thank you. I think if you try to stick with something that's mostly the same as the thing people used to love, you'll get your audience to mostly convert for a while. But then it's just like, well, this is like a shitty version of the thing I loved. And now, frankly, you're kind of ruining the thing I loved. Okay. But it can also work this way, too.

This is a shitty version of the show I actually like. Uh-huh. King of Queens. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Ended. Okay. Kevin James got a new sitcom called Kevin Can Wait.

Okay. Season one, he had, you know, he had a wife, blah, blah, blah. They just got rid of that wife. In season two, they brought in Leah Remini. And I think it's because they're like, well, let's just make this King of Queens, two, Electric Bugaloo. And you're saying that's good? No, I'm saying it's stupid. Yes.

I agree. And so, but Kevin Can Wait has no relation to King of Queens in any way. So I guess that's kind of this. I mean, it kind of is because you're bringing back Vivian Vance. Yes. So. But it's not I Love Lucy. Right.

It's the Lucy show. Right. And it's Lucy Carmichael, not Lucy Ricardo. And I can't remember Vivian's character's name, but it sure as hell wasn't Ethel. Did they bring other people back from I Love Lucy as guests? I mean, I'm sure they did some, but I mean, the main thing was like Fred Mertz gone. He was, I think he was working on my three sons at this point. Anyway, Bill Frawley was his real name.

And, you know, Desi was done with his acting days. Lucy played a widow because they decided, okay, we can't have her with another guy. It'd be too controversial. She's a widow. And yeah, Vivian Vance was a divorcee, which frankly, you weren't scandalized enough about when I first told you. but that's fine. I guess it was scandalous back then. The Lucy Show was the first time a divorced woman was a main character on TV.

That's crazy. The idea of two unmarried women carrying a sitcom is not remotely shocking now, but it was back then. And let me tell you something, Normie, it made the men a little uncomfy. So behind the scenes, the show got a nickname. What? The Van Dyke Show, Sands Dick. That's shitty. Yeah, it's incredibly shitty.

All right. And there were like rumors of, oh, they're lesbians. All right. Who am I silently fuming about? A fume about all of them. Okay. Aren't you still kind of fuming about Desi? You don't seem over this at all.

Yeah, but at least Desi's like, he's still business cat trying to make things work. That's true. He's the executive producer of the show. Somehow, despite the high crime of not centering men, the Lucy show was a hit. Lucy and Vivian proved that they were still a great comedy duo. But, you know, things were a little awkward behind the scenes. Yeah, you're working with your ex-husband. Yep, and you're bringing in the new guy.

Okay, so I already mentioned, Desi's the executive producer of the show, okay? But Lucy hired her new husband, Gary, to warm up the crowd before the taping of each show. Oh, no, he did stand up. Yeah. So Desi super hated that Because that had always been his job before the show And he really loved it Now this new Gary fuckers in here

Took his wife, took his kids, took his job That's how Desi viewed it Uh-huh Desi in this time period I know it's not funny But I do kind of like the idea of him Like silently fuming be like Barry Morton, you know Yeah he's threatening boy

He would not silently fume Well no he did kind of silently fumed because he needed, he was a business cat. They needed to put on this show of everyone gets along. Everything's fine. This is a perfectly stable company. Don't even worry about it. Yeah, I guess he would have to silently fume. Yeah. For the good of the business. Yeah. Which is what I'm doing right now. What are you mad about right now, Norm? What did I do this one? I just told you how I was a goddamn hero, national treasure, because I went to the dentist today and therapy, and here I am doing this podcast.

Shh, don't talk so loud. Kristen just got back from the dentist. Oh, my God. Did she have some kind of dramatic procedure? No, it was just a cleaning. It was a routine teeth cleaning. But she's a bit of a baby about the thing. She went on and on about the x-rays.

Yeah, I had to get x-rays my last dentist visit, too. So we've both been through hard things. Basically, that's what I'm trying to say. You're not alone, Kristen. Thank you. So I just mentioned the charade. they were kind of going through, but, you know, that putting on a charade is hard. Desi struggled with it, and when Desi struggled, he drank, and when he drank, his work suffered.

And that's how Desi, who'd been so innovative and so forward-thinking, just a few years earlier, found himself stuck in the past. Truth was, the industry was changing. People wanted different types of programming, and people wanted to watch TV in color. But Desi thought that was unnecessary. He told investors that the Lucy show would continue to be shot in black and white because she's just as funny in black and white. Oh, boy. I mean, he wasn't wrong. Lucy was still funny, but he was wrong to think that Desilu didn't need to keep up with the times.

Yeah. Color television was probably incredible to everybody when it came out. Sure. I mean, okay, here's a great comparison. Okay. When things went from standard 4 by 3 ratio, you know, the square. Yeah. And then HD came out.

Yeah. And picture clarity. And then things went widescreen on TV. And it's like, yeah, you got to upgrade your stuff to make it look nice with these new TVs and stuff. So, yeah, color television. Come on, dude. I agree. Yeah.

Unless it's part of the charm of the show of like, oh, we're purposefully making it to seem old-fashioned. But they weren't. But they weren't. No. And the thing is, I don't know that you could really get away with that at this point in time. When this new thing is emerging, I don't think you can be like, we're keeping it black and white as a choice. I feel like you have to wait for black and white to totally go out of style and then be like, we're putting this in black and white for. it to be a choice. I think otherwise it just looks like, oh, these are behind the times.

You know what we're doing, actually, because this is an old-timey podcast. If you want to hear the next episode, you have to send a checker money order to our PO box, and we'll send you a cassette tape of that episode. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Call now. Operators are standing by. Yes. Yes. They sure as fuck are. And if you subscribe, we'll send you a tote bag. Mm-hmm. What's it say on the tote bag? I'm a huge fucking history, ho. Fucking slutty history, ho.

And you can take that anywhere. Yep. And no one will be offended. As a result, the studio suffered, revenue dipped. Desi Liu had some really big shows filmed on its lots. They had the Dick Van Dyke show. They had the Andy Griffith show. But those shows were made by other companies.

Those shows were literally just renting out the space. So he's just like a landlord. I mean, in a way, yeah. So they're not bringing in big money. Yeah, that's not going to bring in money. Again, that's not the only thing they're doing, but that, yeah, I know, but like, you got to, you got to make a successful show is going to bring you the most revenue. Right. Lucy could see the writing on the wall.

She tried to help Desi save face. When he was drunkenly sleeping on set, Lucy would have a stage hand trip over his feet to wake him up. But over time, she saw that what Desi needed was a much more literal way. make up call. She and Desi had employed her brother Fred for years. Desi really liked Fred. He respected Fred. So Lucy asked Fred to go try and have a talk with Desi. So that's what Fred did. Fred, you know, approached the difficult conversation as tactfully as he could. And he told Desi, hey, you know, there's been some talk that you're not really running the studio. And Desi was like, oh, yeah? Oh, oh, I'm not running the studio. Well, you're fired.

How's that? Now who's running the studio? Because you're fired. Well, I guess he showed him. He sure did. That's how Fred Ball lost his job at Desi Lou. Lucy later hired him back, but still, I think Desi made his point, don't you? I mean, yeah, he did. That sucks. Yeah, you can't go to the guy that's literally running the studio and say, hey, I heard you were not actually running the studio.

But here's the thing, like, they were trying to help him. That's not the way to go about it, though. Oh, well, how, what's the way to go about it, Norm? Come on. First of all, you take him out to eat. Number one. You take him to Fizzoli. Step one.

You tell him get whatever you want. Do you feel like Fizzolis? And you go to Fizzolis. Okay. Then what? Then you don't say you're doing a shitty job. He didn't say you're doing a shitty job. He basically did because he was like, uh, rumors are you're not really running this studio.

Well, he wasn't really running the studio. studio. There's a better way to go about it. Tell me. Tell me. You don't know a better way. That's why you're just clamming up. Like a little clam.

You say, hey, you know, things are kind of tough right now with the studio. Uh-huh. Maybe we should, have you thought of, like, bringing in some extra help so, like, we can kind of write this ship? Boy. You truly are a non-threatening boy. He literally owns the studio. He's the president. Yeah.

So it's insulting to be like, yeah, you're. not actually running this studio. What was Fred's job? I don't remember his exact title, but damn. Yeah. So like, he can't go to the president of the damn company. Well, I think if you're feeling like, and I don't know that Lucy was feeling like this, but I think there might be some fear that like, okay, are the, is the board going to rise up and try to get you out of here? Like, what can we do? You know who can have that conversation with him? Who? Lucille Ball. No. Not Fred.

No, they can't. They just did this divorce. She's married to this guy. It's been long enough. Yeah, he has a toupee, but he probably has a huge dick. So, you know, that's threatening. Apparently, Desi did too. Well.

Dripping hogs all around for Lucille Ball. Okay, fine. I disagree with you. But anyhow, this was tough. Lucy had always been the star of the show. He'd always been the star of the business. Now he was dripping in Fizzol. You say you're fired, but thanks for the Fizzolis.

I'm going to sit here and finish. You wait in the car. I'm going to finish my pepperoni pizzazz lasagna, whatever the fuck's on their menu. So, yeah, Desi was a risk to the business. And if we sent Norman, Norm would have handled it just fine by being like, oh, I'm sorry, sir, excuse me, sir, I know you're great and everything, but maybe you could do it a little better. No, that's not what I said.

I didn't say you're amazing and awesome. I said, things are tough right now. Maybe we should consider bringing in some help. Okay. Until this point, Lucy had always been a very hands-off VP. And, you know, the male executives who helped run Desi Liu had always been super comfy with that arrangement. But now they weren't.

Now they were keeping Lucy appraised of everything that was going on. Because, yeah, she was a woman, and there was no excuse for her. that, but someone needed to take charge. That's right. And as painful as it was, Lucy came to see that this thing that she and Desi had built together, this thing that he had spearheaded, she had to take it over. She needed to be the boss. A few years earlier, one of their more forward-thinking executives had talked them into signing an agreement, which would allow one of them to buy out the other, if need be. As we talked about in the last episode. Yeah. And so in November of 1962, Lucille Ball bought Desi Arnaz out of the business. She paid him $3 million, adjusted for

inflation. That's about $31.5 million. Very expensive. At its highest, the Desi Lou stock had been worth $20 per share. Now it was only worth $7. Oh. But she paid Desi $10 per chair. Oh my God. Per chair. There's a lot of chairs in his studio. Shut up. This is going to cost me a fortune. Why do we have all these chairs? So many chairs. Maybe we should get bleachers for the audience, not chairs. Is it true?

At one point, we paid $20 per chair? For the next two years, Desi's office sat empty. Lucy refused to let anyone move into it. What? Okay, well, it's not really explained, but I have thoughts on it. I think that speaks to how painful this was for her. I think it speaks to her sentimentality and maybe also her relationship. reluctance to move forward, maybe her respect for Desi.

Also, though, it's funny, she talked about how when she was really overwhelmed, she saw her life like a chest of drawers. So, okay, the kids are in one drawer. I open that, I deal with that. Then I shut it. And then performing is in this other drawer. I open that. I deal with that.

I shut it. So I wonder if this is a more literal, I don't want to deal with the fact that Desi's not here. I don't want to deal with all the conversations we had in that office. So we are literally shutting the door and not talking about it. Suddenly I see. I've got a buy out desi. Suddenly I see. Boy, why didn't I think to sing that?

It would have made it so much more clear. This studio means so much to me. So pull up a chair and sing along with me. Can you name the artist? Suddenly I see. Natasha Beddingfield? No. Katie Turnstall.

Oh. Katie Turnstall. So, you know, Lucy's not wanting to move forward with that, but Desi moved forward. He got paid. Yeah, but he was embarrassed. Four months after the buyout, Desi remarried. He married E.D. Hirsch, a beautiful redhead, who used to be Lucy and Desi's neighbor. Oh.

In the last episode, when we talked about Tallulah Bankhead, I was like, man, imagine if they got together. Oh, God, that'd be wild. It would be. I was kind of hoping it was going to happen. My fingers crossed. But, yeah, guess not. Guess not.

Desi and Edie got married in Vegas. And although Lucy didn't attend the wedding, she sent flowers in the shape of a horseshoe with a card that read, you both picked a winner. Eadie would go on to have a lot of the same problems with Desi that Lucy'd had with him. What?

I know. It's shocking. He didn't change? Nope. By the way, Edy, she used to be married to this big, rich guy who sold dog food, so that's kind of cool. And I guess... Donald Purina? Shut up.

Donald Kirkland signature. No, it was... There was some weird story about... I guess he... Jonathan Puppy Chow? Shut up. He was pretty sure that she and Desi were hooking up. So he hired, like, private detectives to follow them.

And Desi caught wind. And so then Desi hired private detectives to follow the private detectives, you know. Wow. Kind of an argument over who's got enough money to burn. This could be a sitcom. Puppy Chow man or Desi. Edie didn't like having the last name Puppy Chow. Lucy didn't have much time to worry about Desi's new marriage norm.

She was too busy being the first. first woman to ever lead a major Hollywood studio. Woo! It's a lot of pressure. Trailblazer. That's right. It was a lot of pressure, Norm. Partly because she was still on TV.

The Lucy show was a hit, and Desi Lou couldn't afford to lose another moneymaker. Got to shake that money maker. I'm sorry, I didn't mean another money maker. That sounded a lot worse. Uh-huh. Anyhow, but yeah, you really should shake it. Mm-hmm. So she kept going.

But, you know, she had to start using cue cards. which was very out of character for a woman who'd built her career on just, like, tireless rehearsals. Is it just because she didn't have time to rehearse anymore? Right. I mean, she was too busy. Yeah. Running any major studio would be tough. But Lucy had the additional burden of not just being a woman, but being the first woman to ever occupy that role. Okay, so there was a study that came out of Harvard several years ago that revealed what I personally think a lot of women already know.

which is that when a man gets more powerful and advances in his career, people like him even more. But when a woman advances in her career and gets more powerful, people like her less. And what's unique about Lucy is that by playing a scheming, well-meaning, and childlike character like Lucy Ricardo, Lucille Ball had managed to sidestep that likeability trap. Lucille Ball was one of the most famous people on Earth. She was rich and powerful, but because she got there via that beloved, non-threatening character, everyone could still like her. But now she was the head of Desi Lou.

She had to be the boss. And that was uncomfortable. It was uncomfortable for the male executives who didn't like the idea of reporting to a woman. It was uncomfortable for anyone who preferred the status quo, which fun fact, damn near everybody prefers the status quo. And it was uncomfortable for Lucy. She talked openly and often about how she did not like running the company. She preferred to be a performer. She was only running Desi Lou because she had no other choice. I was going to say she's a hell of an entertainer. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I would not want to do that. If your bread and butter is

entertainment. And then it's like, okay, now you're in charge of this studio and you have to like run a company. That's like a totally different vibe. It's a different skill set too. Yeah. She left shareholders and reporters with the impression that when decisions needed to be made, she went with what her executives thought was best. She downplayed her accomplishments. She gave credit to others. Once when a reporter came to a Desilu board meeting, Lucy ran the meeting, obviously, but she also dusted the tables beforehand. And I think this is one of those situations where Lucy told us again and again how she felt about running the company. And maybe it's true that she didn't like running the studio.

I think you've got a great point of like performing and running a studio are two totally different things. And it's totally possible that you could really love one and hate the other. To me, this sounds like it could also be a very insightful strategy for maintaining power and trying to maintain. some level of likeability. Oh, I don't even want to be in the top position, but I'm here, so I guess I'll do it. Oh, you know what? I just listen to what my board thinks, and, you know, they're all very smart, capable people. I hear them out. Yes, absolutely. Sure. But at some point, Lucy might have realized that trying to be the boss while also trying to be likable was a losing game. Later in life, Lucy became a mentor to the actress and comedian Carol Burnett.

And Lucy told Carol this story about how once Desi left, she was kind of alone. And one day the writers gave her the latest script for the Lucy show. And the script just kind of sucked. And Lucy didn't know what to do. Because in the past, if a script needed to be retooled or rewritten, Desi handled it. Desi was the tough one. And so Lucy thought about it and got really sad. And then she realized, if I'm going to run this company,

I'm going to have to be tough like Desi. I'm going to have to stop worrying so much about what other people think of me. So she had that tough conversation with the writers. And as the story goes, Lucy told Carol Burnett, Kid, that was the day they put an S on the end of my last name. Lucille. That's right. Incredible.

Trusting her own instincts meant sometimes going against what the Desilu board wanted her to do. For example, in 1965, the board told, Lucy that two pilots she was considering needed to just be scrapped. It'd be too expensive to produce. They weren't worth it. But Lucy had a feeling that those two pilots were worth the money. They were worth the risk. So she disregarded the board's advice.

And those two pilots were... Drumroll. Mission Impossible. Oh. Star Trek. What? In other words, one was a TV show that ran for seven seasons, and spawned a whole movie franchise.

And the other was one of the highest grossing franchises of all times. Of all times, yes. Lucy was running the company and still turning to Desi for advice. It's kind of funny because their marriage hadn't worked, but their divorce did work. After the divorce, they were able to see the good in each other again. By this point, Lucy had given her new husband Gary a bigger role at Desi Lou, but Gary was no Desi. Yeah.

People didn't really like him, didn't really respect him. His jokes weren't landing. I mean, that is the one thing people say is that he wasn't very funny. Around the holidays each year, Desi had always given everyone on the crew a nice bottle of liquor. People loved it, made him feel appreciated. You know, they didn't forget that kind of thing. Sure. By contrast, when the holidays rolled around, Gary brought in a keg of beer,

and when he asked, who wants beer? People just kind of walked away. Oh, no. There's a story from a 1966 stockholders meeting that I think really sums up Gary's vibe. That year, Desi Loo's money was down. The stockholders were pissed off. And Lucy was trying to explain that they were going to cut costs.

And one of the shareholders went after her. He was like, why don't we cut your pay? That'd solve the problem. Okay, at that point, Lucy was being paid $100,000 as president of Desi Liu. Okay. And $130,000 for her acting. Adjusted for inflation, that is $2.2 million. I'm going to say, that ain't shit.

What was the gross revenue of Desi Liu? I don't know. I didn't write that down. Well, that's important. I'm just saying, adjusted for inflation. Uh-huh. The head of a major Hollywood studio, who is also the star. Yeah.

And she's making $2.2 million? Yeah, but it all depends on how much money the studio is making. Okay, fine, that's fair. But I'm going to kick your ass. Okay. It was a very uncomfortable moment in this meeting. But Gary jumped in and said, She's about 200% underpaid.

So to me, that sums up Gary. basically a good guy. Yeah. You know, he's trying to defend his wife. And again, my position is he's probably not wrong, but also he didn't sound very, I mean, she's probably 200% underpaid. I mean, that's like me not knowing the gross revenue or whatever. If you're comparing that moment to how Desi might have handled it, there's no contest, you know. Well, Gary Morton's like droopy dog.

and Desi's like Spuds McKenzie What? Who spuds McKinsey? The Bud Light Dog Oh He's cool That's true actually Yeah

Yeah And he knows he's the shit That meeting was so tense And so uncomfortable That at the end of it One of the shareholders said Well this has been a real show Too bad it wasn't shown on television

Might have increased our revenues Being the boss was tough She had people telling her to her face that she wasn't worth her salary. And she was also dealing with bullshit that frankly sounds insane today. For example, Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek. Yeah. And I guess some folks wanted to bring in a cake to work to celebrate his birthday. Okay, no problem, no big deal.

Well, they brought in a huge cake and a naked woman jumped out of it. At work. Oh, geez. Just go to Costco and get one of those cakes. Why do you got to put a freaking naked lady in it? Make everyone uncomfortable. Good Lord. Oh, no, I'm sure the men loved it.

Even better, giant cookie cake. Yeah. From Walmart or Sam's Club. Let me tell you something. If some woman got her labia on my cookie cake, I would be so pissed off. Wouldn't be the least bit turned on. What? Yeah.

I'd be like, did you smear the icing? God damn it. Yeah, so Lucy was like, hell no. Nobody's doing that at my studio. oh, this is a place of business. And of course, that was seen as her being very uncool and uptight. So unsanitary. I hate everything.

Yeah. Thank you, Norman. Think. Do not come between Kristen and a cookie kid, by the way. You know what I'm imagining? What? I'm sorry. We wheel in the cake.

Naked woman jumps out of it. Yeah. And, you know, whatever. Some people are enjoying. Some people not so much. what I can picture you doing is being the one guy who's like, you know what, I'm going to try that cake. Oh, absolutely.

I'm having the cake. But I would try to find a piece that was not touched by the naked woman. Probably like at the bottom, bottom back piece. What I'm specifically picturing is you eating the cake and being like, this isn't very good. It's not, any cake you jump out of is probably not good because they make it in a rush. Why it's so funny. Yeah, they're like, no one's going to actually eat this, but Norman Caruso would eat that cake.

I'm all about the cake. Mm-hmm. Cake, cake, cake, cake, you know you love it. Lucy kept notes to herself on her bathroom mirror that read, Is it good for Lucy and be good to yourself? Yeah, I like it. Yeah. Affirmations.

Yeah, she needed those because the truth was, for all that she'd accomplished, she still couldn't quite see how talented she was, how smart she was, or even just how much people liked her. And that's what made it so great on June 4, 1967, when Lucy won the Emmy for Best Comedy Actress for her work on The Lucy Show. Wow, that's incredible. That's a big deal. Tell me more. Why do you say that? Well, when you have a huge successful show, and that's what you're known for, to get recognized for something.

else, that's not that show, is a huge deal. And I immediately think of Julia Louis Dreyfus. That's who I was thinking of too, yes. Who like, after Seinfeld, she really struggled to find, she struggled to get out of the shadow of Seinfeld. Sure, as anyone would. Yeah, and I think she won an Emmy for the New Adventures of Old Christine, which I never found that show very good. I think her greatest success is Veep. Veep is amazing. Veep is very good. good. And you know, she's a hell of a dramatic actress, too. She's done some drama roles that are really good in movies. Yeah. But I agree. That's who I was thinking of too, because I think when you're part of something that is a cultural phenomenon, like I love Lucy, like Seinfeld, I mean, obviously that's great. But there also has to be that fear afterwards of like, okay, I did this thing when I was however old. And I'm never going to top it. Yeah. You know, and granted, Lucy was in her 40s when she started I Love Lucy, but like Julia Louis Dreyfus, I mean, what, like late 20s, early 30s? She started Seinfeld, probably late 20s, yeah.

Yeah. And she's probably mid-30s when the show ended. That's got to be a weird, scary feeling to be like my career peaked just then. In my 30s, yeah. Yeah. Do you have feelings of that with like, let's go to court ending in this new podcast? Or you're like... I mean, I definitely know that fear of starting a new thing.

thing and hoping like how people like it. But also, it's funny because we talked about, you know, keeping it as the same as possible. Yeah. And I've wanted to be really careful about making this show its own show. And so it's funny because, like, well, I think the deep dives are a great way to help make this its own show. But at the same time, I'm insecure about it because I've never done these before. Yeah, and you never really did that on Let's go to court.

No, no, never. I think maybe that's why I've been so excited to see how well this podcast is doing, just because there is that fear when you do something that's successful, that it's like, well, that was my one thing. I've got one. Although Lucy O'Ball, I know I Love Lucy was her greatest show, but she had a pretty accomplished career before. Oh, definitely.

Yeah. Definitely. What about you with Gaming Historian? I don't have those feelings. Yeah. And I don't have any, like, expectation of, like, I want this to be bigger or anything. I'm just, like, I'm more about, like, enjoying the vibes and just going with the flow, yeah. Yeah.

And I'm having a good time making this, so that's all I really care about right now. Me too. Yeah. The footage from the night when Lucille Ball won that Emmy is just, like, it's magic. You know, it's like, it's become a cliche now to say when you get an award, oh, this is so unexpected. But Lucy really didn't expect to win. She'd won the Emmy for Best Comedy Actress before, but that had been in 1952. So this was over 10 years later?

Or 10 years exactly? More than that. It's 1967. Wow, 15 years later. Yeah, and she hadn't expected to ever win again. And that night, when her name was called, she's sitting at this table, her jaw dropped, she covered her mouth. Gary put his arm around her and she just sat there for what felt like a while. You know, you're watching this and it's not actually very long, but it just, I feel like I'm

used to seeing like, oh, people get up immediately. But she just sat there, clearly just kind of soaking it in. And then she made her way to the stage, grabs the Emmy, looked out of the crowd, dropped her head, shook it. And she looked up again and said, I can't believe it. And everyone laughed because she said it just so matter-of-factly. I honestly cannot believe it. I don't have one thing prepared to say because I just didn't expect it. It's been a long, long time.

And she stood there smiling and the crowd applauded. And she held the Emmy higher and examines. and examined it and then held it against herself and said, I have one or two, and they mean a lot because it's given by you all, part of the industry. She talked some more, still kind of pausing to look at that Emmy, and she said, last time I got it, I thought they gave it to me because I had a baby. That baby is 14 years old now. I love my work.

Thank you for giving me this for it. and she walked off stage. Good speech. Yeah, I love it. For someone who had nothing prepared, that was very well done. Well, and who knows? She's an amazing actress. Maybe that was prepared.

But I don't know. I just love that because she'd been through a lot. And, you know, I think for better or for worse, she did put a lot of emphasis on whether people liked her. And so that recognition meant a lot. When you're an entertainer, it definitely matters to you if people like you or not. Yeah. Yeah.

Lucy had always been a performer first. And so that same year, when Gulf and Western offered to buy Desi Lou, Lucy thought it over, and she said yes. She sold Desi Lou and made $10 million off the deal. Nice. Adjusted for inflation, it's about $94 million. Very expensive. Woo! Nice.

And she gets out of running a company, which. which she didn't really want to do. And that's how Desi Lou became Paramount Television. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. Did they just renamed it, Paramount? Yeah, it just gets folded in, kind of the same way RKO just got folded into Desi Lou, you know.

Oh, okay. So Gulf and Western already owned Paramount. Well, I don't think they owned it then, but eventually it would become. Okay. That makes sense because I Love Lucy is on Paramount. The Twilight Zone is on Paramount. Star Trek is on Paramount.

All the CBS stuff. Yeah. Lucy did a bunch of CBS stuff. Mission Impossible. In next week's episode, which I guarantee will be the final installment in this series. Oh, yeah. Okay. No, I really do guarantee it.

Okay. In next week's episode, everyone grows old. Oh, I'm old now. To say we're running out of years, I bet. Well, yeah. I mean, that's, I could have said everyone dies, but that would have been really, really sad. Then everyone died, the end.

Yep. I don't know how you would have wrapped it all up. How long have we been recording? Three hours. Good God. Yeah, I... Good heavens. I am ridiculous.

Of course, I did eat up a lot of time talking about the very exciting day I've had, which I'm sure people really enjoy. Yeah. Your day at the dentist. Kristen's Day at the Dentist. Yeah, which was really 45 minutes, but somehow felt like, and all-consuming activity. When they did your x-rays, did they put that heavy little apron bib thing on you?

They had me get fully naked. That's not normal. You may want to check on that. And the hygienist said, your body's weird. Yep. This confirms it. Your body's weird. You can put your clothes back on.

I thought we were doing x-rays. They had me jump out of a cake. For the head dentist. Can you imagine? you hire a woman to jump out of a cake and out jumps me a 38-year-old Midwestern gal that'll teach you

that'll teach you. No, you're smoking. People would love it. Thank you. But no, I disagree. I think when you're in the market for a naked woman to jump out of a cake, you maybe expect fewer varicose veins, very few stretch marks.

Yeah, less butt pimples. Hey, you didn't have to add. I, you know, I thought it was safe because you talk about them all the time. I thought it was a safe thing to mention. Yeah. Well, don't make people jealous, okay? Yeah, you're right. Some people are married to people who don't have pimples on their butts. And, you know, they can draw them on but it's not the same. It's just not the same, Norm. You can get them tattooed if you're wanting pimples on your butt. But it's not going to give you that texture that you want. People get, freckles tattooed. Why not pimples on your butt? That is the wildest thing to me.

Freckles tattooed. Why is it wild? I think because I have freckles and I'm always like, ugh. We don't have to brag. Well, no, I'm not bragging. That's like if somebody was like, I'm going to go through a very expensive procedure to put pimples on my butt. No, freckles are cute. Well, thank you.

Women and men find freckles cute. Well, I'm just adorable. And, you know, someday someone's going to tattoo pimples on their butt. because the Grace Kelly of podcasting has them, and I just want to be just like her. Yeah, that's the way to do it, folks. What did you think of this episode? We covered a lot of ground. We did.

We went through a bunch of years, what, 1958 to 1967? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good amount. This lady was nonstop. I feel like you covered 10 years in my life, and you're not going to need seven parts. Yeah, maybe 20 minutes. So she watched a lot of TV. She watched Big Brother Season 11.

Uh-huh. It's from 2010. Oh, now hold on, hold on, hold on. This is the year she discovered that you can put Coke Zero in a cup and then add some cream and some lime. And then you got yourself a Dirty Diet Coke. That's your new obsession right now. It is my new obsession. Dirty Diet Coke's, yeah.

Yes, everyone, if you've not tried it, it apparently comes from Utah. It's the Mormon Girlies. They're not having cocktails. They're just doctoring up. They're Coke Zero. Rose, I'm not here to judge, although in many ways I am. But, yeah, you ought to give that a little slurp. You're pretty tasty.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Anyhow. I'm more of a crystal light guy myself. Well, sure. That's because it's the more masculine beverage, and everyone knows that. Extreme crystal light. Yeah, they need a rebrand.

Get some more men drinking crystal light. Mmm. As I sip from my awala. Yeah, as you just sip lovingly. Get on that $10 tier. Kristen, we've talked about people giving us five-star reviews, subscribing to the podcast. We've talked about patreon.com slash old-timey podcast

with all the fresh new tiers and all the perks you get and whatnot. Those bonus episodes, they are good. But hey, if we want to see more of you, where can we find you? Are you helping me plug my Instagram? Yeah, maybe some more personal picks, behind the scenes stuff, pictures of dogs and cats. Oh, you do get to see the dogs on my Instagram. It's at Kristen Pitts Caruso, because some hoe took Kristen Caruso.

So it's Kristen Pitts Caruso. And you're posting regularly, finally. I mean, for the past four years, you had an Instagram account, but I think you had one photo on that. I sure did. Listen, Norm, grandma's trying to get better at the Instagram, okay? Apparently you can tag stuff. You can tag stuff. That's right. Great job.

I do need to get better. But right now I'm just too busy reading about Lucille Ball. I'll get better eventually. Yeah. So everyone give Kristen a follow over on Instagram. Kristen Pitts-Keruso. You sweetie. She posts some fun stuff.

Well, thank you all for listening. Kristen, you know what they say about history hoes? We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information. from the book Love Lucy by Lucille Ball, the plot Thicken's podcast from Turner Classic Movies, the documentary Lucy and Desi,

and the book, The Life of Lucille Ball by Kathleen Brady. That's all for this episode. Thank you so much for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts, and while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Old Timey Podcast. timey podcast and until next time. Tooteloo, Tata, and Cheerio!