An Old Timey Podcast - 113: Floyd Collins’ Rescue Becomes a Circus (Part 3)

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Reporters swarmed. Crowds gathered. State officials arrived on scene. People were hungry for information about the trapped cave explorer, Floyd Collins. They wanted to rescue the man trapped 55 feet below the earth’s surface. But a collapse halted any further attempts through Sand Cave.Locals and state experts disagreed on the best path forward. And as they argued, hope dwindled.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Collins, Homer, and John Lehrberger. The Life and Death of Floyd Collins. Cave Books, 2001.Kem, David Randolph. The Kentucky Cave Wars: The Century That Shaped Mammoth Cave National Park. David Randolph Kem, 2014.Murray, Robert K., and Roger W. Brucker. Trapped! The Story of Floyd Collins. University Press of Kentucky, 1982. https://archive.org/details/trappedstoryofst0000murr.Reilly, Lucas. “The 1925 Cave Rescue That Captivated the Nation.” Mental Floss, July 13, 2018. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/544782/1925-cave-rescue-that-captivated-the-united-states-floyd-collins.Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Normy C. And I'm Kristen Caruso. And on this episode, it's a race against time to save Floyd Collins. Norm, his whole series has kept me on the edge of my seat. I have not Googled ahead. Good for you. But I'm worried about Floyd. Your mother texted me saying she loved the episode and she was basically like, promise me. No matter what you do, you won't tell you.

me what happens. I was like, okay. All right, Shiree, Ray. I promise. She's very sweet. And you know what else is sweet, Norm? Our Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

For just $5 a month, you get access to our entire back catalog of bonus episodes, plus you get to Chitty Chat in the Discord. And if you're really feeling saucy and rich, how about you give us $10 a month? That makes you a pig butter investor. And on that tier, you get early ad-free video episodes of this podcast. Plus, you get to play trivia with us, plus you get 10% off all merchandise. That's pending, by the way.

Plus more. Check us out at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Folks, you just watched an Italian man take my job. Why don't you go back to your country? This month, I am doing an episode on the history of the Wiener Mobile. So if a gigantic weener coming at you doesn't intrigue you, I don't know what to tell you. That sounds very girthy and exciting. It's going to be a very mature episode.

We're in good hands, I assure you. You know, it's a good change of pace after this Floyd Collins series to learn about the WeinerMobile. I think you misheard me. I'm going to cover it in the most serious way possible. Oh, so no jokes. No. No laughing. This is...

Catch up to my level, Norm. Frankly, I'm disgusted by you. Are you going to provide, like, mechanical... information about how the wiener mobile was constructed, like the horsepower, what engine they use, that kind of stuff? Yes, I know you'd relish it if I told a bunch of stupid jokes about wieners, but I heard relish. Norm, I heard relish.

You missed some other ones. Oh, did I? What else did you say? The listeners will tell you. I went right over my head. I did catch the relish, though. Very good. Thank you.

Give me a little credit. Well, Kristen, do you remember when I said that part three would be the finale of this series? Are you a big liar, Norm? I lied. You, you liar! That's right. Sorry to all the history is out there. I just found so many juicy details that I could not leave out.

And, you know, history is kind of like meat in that way. The juicier, the better. Oh, okay. But before we begin, let's recap part two. Previously on an old-timey podcast. Now, Norm, is this going to be a really concise summation? No. We did have a listener say, Norm, you don't have to be concise.

Spread your wings and fly. So that's what I'm going to do. Previously, on an old-timey podcast, we learned that in 1925, in South Central Kentucky, 37-year-old Floyd Collins was trapped 55 feet below the earth. A boulder had fallen and pinned his left leg in a tight narrow passageway dubbed Sand Cave. Gravel covered his entire body. His arms were pinned at his sides. In the darkness, Floyd could only scream. After 24 hours, neighbors came looking for Floyd, and that got rescue operations underway. Many people in the area volunteered to help, but a few men stood out. There was Floyd's younger brothers, Homer and Marshall Collins. They had done some

caving themselves, but nothing could prepare them for the claustrophobic conditions inside Sand Cave. There was Lieutenant Robert Burden, a Louisville firefighter who thought that if he could get Floyd out of there, he was in line for a promotion. There was William Skeets Miller, a reporter-turned-turned rescuer who, in an effort to get information from the source, bravely wiggled down Sand Cave to talk to Floyd Collins. There was Henry Carmichael, superintendent of the Kentucky Rock Asphalt Company, who brought in manpower and supplies to help get Floyd out. And finally, there was Johnny Gerald, Floyd Collins' friend and caving buddy, who was filled with determination to save his friend, but also kind of suspicious of these out-of-towners' assist.

with the rescue. All sorts of ideas were thrown around to get Floyd out. A rope, a blowtorch, dynamite, hammer and chisel, untie Floyd's left shoe, a rescue shaft. There were non-stop disagreements about what to do. But ultimately, they settled on good old-fashioned digging. The rescue crew worked tirelessly to dig out sand cave, removing as much loose rock and debris as they could from all around Floyd. They widened the passageways, they shored up the wall, they installed string lights. Progress was coming along. On Tuesday, February 3rd, 1925, they attempted to save Floyd by lifting the boulder off his leg with a crowbar and a jack. But it failed. Mother Nature didn't want to let Floyd go just yet. The crew hoped to try again on

Wednesday. But in the early morning hours, things changed. San Cave rumbled. The ceilings drooped, and in a flash, it collapsed. On this episode of an old-timey podcast, it's a race against the clock to save Floyd Collins. Okay. Are they going to finally untie that left shoe? I don't know why they didn't do that in the first place. I know. I know.

No one believed that drunk fella around the campfire that all they had to do was untie his shoe. You know, if there's one lesson to be learned here, it's that we should always listen to drunk men with their ideas. Mm-hmm. Wednesday, February 4th, 1925. That morning, millions of readers across the country read William Skeets Miller's intimate interview with Floyd Collins down in Sand Cave. It was harrowing stuff. People were enthralled by this story. But why exactly?

Floyd Collins was not a hero in the traditional sense. You know, he had gotten himself stuck down there. He was not a recognizable name either, unless he were a local living in the mammoth cave area. What was it about Floyd Collins' entrapment that captivated people? Author Robert Murray wrote that it, quote, Touched in every person a fear of darkness and isolation, a primordial cave fear that stirred a feeling akin to nothing else in the human experience. Suddenly, millions of Americans were vicariously trapped alive with Collins.

In a way, these same millions could not fly the Atlantic with Lindberg or fight in the boxing ring with Dempsey. William Miller received plenty of kudos for his reporting. The Chicago Tribune declared, quote, The Kid Has guts. The New York Times wrote Miller's work was, quote, The finest thing done in a long time. Locals in Cave City were big fans, too.

As he left his hotel room Wednesday morning, William Miller was mobbed by well-wishers. Miller was extremely humble, and he always downplayed his accomplishments. To him, you know, he wasn't brave. Floyd Collins was brave. After a quick breakfast, Miller got to the Sand Cave Rescue site at around 10 a.m. He was eager to try and get the boulder off Floyd's leg. Lieutenant Robert Burden, Johnny Gerald, Homer Collins, and Henry Carmichael were already there. And they had bad news. The cave had collapsed. Miller couldn't believe it. He had to see it for himself. Henry Carmichael tried to be. stop him. It was way too dangerous to try and enter Sand Cave again, but Miller was willing to try. He entered Sand Cave and crawled down until he hit the collapse. It was in the passageway right before the 10-foot pit that led down to Floyd. Miller looked around. He estimated the cave-in

was probably four feet thick. And luckily, it wasn't super packed in, so there was some hope that they could just remove it. Miller shouted, Floyd, are you there? For a moment, there was no response. And then Miller heard a feeble reply. Come on down. I'm free. What? Miller was like, Hold up. Wait a minute. Yeah. So that was super suss, as the kids say. Are you sure, Floyd? He yelled back. Come down and see, replied Floyd. Of course, Miller couldn't come down. There was a large pile of limestone rocks and dirt blocking his way. Miller tried to move some out of the way, but as he did, Moore fell. Still skeptical of Floyd's claims, Miller tested him.

We can't make it right now, Floyd, but if you're hungry, do you see that bottle of milk above your head? Reach up and get it. It's half full. So the previous day, they had left him a bottle of milk so he could drink. No answer. Miller waited. And then finally, he got a replacement. I can't. Miller sighed. You're not free, are you, Floyd? he asked.

No, I'm not free, said Floyd. The truth was, Floyd Collins knew about the cave in. He knew how dangerous the passageway now was, and he was willing to say anything to get people to come down to him. At that moment, a large chunk of clay crashed down onto William Miller's feet. frightened, Miller scurried up and out of Sand Cave. Back at the surface, he told the others of the situation. For God's sake, do not go back in there, Miller pleaded.

In his opinion, it was now too dangerous to try and rescue Floyd Collins. If they dug out the collapse, they risked another collapse. But, Kristen, you know how dudes be. Don't tell them they can't do something. That'll just make them want to do it more. If someone said to me, no, don't eat at that burger stand, Norman. the one with the big sign on the road that says best burger in town, it has a Google rating of 1.8 out of 5.

It's too dangerous. You know what I'm going to say? I don't care. I got to find out for myself if it's the best burger in town. Right, Kristen? This sounds ripped from the headlines of our lives. Exactly. I tell you what, if someone claims to have the best burger,

it truly does not matter if you walk in there and it smells like a toy. You're getting that burger. Kristen's kind of like that little... I'm prepared for a compliment. You're like a little angel on my shoulder because I see Best Burger in town and I'm like, well, I'll be the judge of that. And you're the little angel that's like, well, maybe we shouldn't. Maybe let's go somewhere else.

Maybe we don't want food poisoning today. But you know, at the same time, you're also my little devil because you're saying, no, don't eat that burger even though it says Best Burger in town. Deny yourself that joy and happiness. You poor sad man. You're kind of both, actually. Now do they think about it. I'm a complicated woman.

So yeah, William Miller is like, fellas, I went down there, don't go back in there. But of course, Lieutenant Burden decided he would check it out for himself. He crawled and wiggled down to the collapse, inspecting the damage. As he did, Burden said he could hear Floyd screaming and praying for God's help,

Lieutenant Burden returned to the surface, and his opinion was worse than Miller's. Not only could they not save Floyd from Sand Cave, Burden thought they couldn't save him at all. In his mind, this rescue operation was over. Floyd Collins was a dead man. But don't tell that to Johnny Gerald. By the way, I played that on the last episode. We were copyright-striked by Chad Kroger from... from Nickelback, we owe him $5,000.

Oh, damn it. And now we're going to owe him $10,000. Okay, yeah. We won't stop. It's too good. Johnny Gerald was pissed. Pissed. The feverish activity of all those men working in Sand Cave had caused that collapse.

He had warned them. They were careless. And now his friend Floyd Collins was in an even worse situation. So Johnny Gerald decided he would rescue Floyd himself. He entered San Diego. cave and made it down to the collapse and oof, okay, yeah, this is pretty bad. But Johnny

Gerald still believed he could get through. So guess what he started doing? Digging. Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig is what we like to do. Floyd Collins heard Johnny from down below. Johnny, is that you? Come to me. I'd love a cheese sandwich. Floyd just wants all kinds of

stinky sandwiches down there, doesn't he? Well, you know, he got kind of tired of the sausage sandwiches. Well, yeah, I bet so. I'd say after seven, you should be done for life. He's ready to switch it up, you know. When you go to Subway, you can't order the same sub every time. Someone needs to tell you that, Norm.

That's true. I do order the same sub. Tuna with jalapinos. I've been to Subway in a while, actually. No one has. Yeah, that's true. They're not doing too well. So yeah, Floyd Collins, or Johnny, come on down.

I want a cheese sandwich. We will, Floyd, he said. Some rocks have fallen and we've got to dig him out. Johnny Gerald had been the first to confess about a cave-in to Floyd. And in that moment, Floyd sobbed. Oh, God, help me, cried Floyd. Oh, Lord, dear Lord, Jesus, all-powerful. Save me, Johnny.

Floyd's cries for help only further fuel Johnny Gerald. He carefully removed rock after rock, passing them up to others. One volunteer compared it to digging in a barrel of apples. You know, you take one apple out, another one falls into its place. Okay, that's the perfect way to think of it, because I was wondering, how are they even doing this? It's not as simple as just you're shoveling stuff out. No. And you really can't even use a shovel in this tight space.

They're using their hands and putting it into buckets and just hauling it up. I also would wonder about, you know, fear of another cave-in, obviously, but even as you're moving these rocks, like, it's kind of a miracle that Floyd hasn't been crushed by another rock. Right. It's a miracle. Stuff has not fallen down the 10-foot pit onto his head. And so I've been wondering, like, in an attempt to rescue him and an attempt to clear the 10-foot pit, well, everyone knows what I'm thinking. Continue. you. For the next eight hours, Johnny Gerald went in and out of Sand Cave to clear that collapse. Henry Carmichael was inspired by Gerald's work, and he called on his men to help shore up the passageway. Boys, he said, we're going down into that hole and we're going to start shoring.

There's death down there. The walls and ceilings are crumbling. Unless you are determined to take the biggest chance you ever took in your life, tell me now, and stay outside. It's the last try. The boy can't live much longer. He's been in that slime for five days. His vitality must be gone. And if we can't free him from that rock when we do shore, he's a goner. Brave men stepped forward, suppressing their fears. They cut down trees and used the wood inside sand cave to hold up loose rock in the ceiling. They reinforced cracks. This was extremely dangerous work. Rainwater from the past week along with warming temperatures and the constant rubbing of the passageway walls was a recipe for more collapses. Still, those men worked all night.

And by 10.30 p.m., there was some hope. Johnny Gerald and the rescue crews had managed to clear an opening in the collapse just big enough for a small man to squeeze through. Light shined on the other side. They could maybe get to Floyd again. Johnny Gerald was ready to try, and he had a new idea. Vaseline. Oh, that's not going to work. Armed with a grease gun, Johnny Gerald wanted to squirt Floyd's foot with a bunch of Vaseline. That would maybe lube it up enough to allow Floyd to slip out from under that massive rock pinning his leg.

No. Then grease me up, woman. Okay, dokey. Well, but I mean, his leg isn't a little stuck. It's stuck. It's wedged in there for sure. I think this was just kind of a desperate idea. You know, maybe a little easier to attempt than the Jack.

But, yeah, I don't see this working. Yes? You're just looking at me. Are you imagining me all Vaseline up? No, but now I am. No, I'm feeling really sorry for everyone in this. And I'm also thinking like, I think best case scenario, you're just greasing up this guy who you're going to try to pull out. I mean, they're just going to put Vaseline on his leg.

You said they had like some kind of Vaseline gun? A grease gun. A grease gun? Yeah. Okay, I'm not familiar. But I'm assuming that that's kind of like a shotgun spray. I believe like mechanics used it on cars for like engine work. just to like lubricate parts.

So it's like it's not like it's going to injure Floyd. It's just a way to apply the Vaseline. No, I don't think anyone's going to be injured by Vaseline. There won't be bullet holes in Floyd with Vaseline all over. You're saying, oh, only is like I'm saying it could get messy is what I'm saying. I mean, worst case scenario, Floyd's still stuck and now he's covered in Vaseline, okay? I think that's pretty bad. what I'm saying. I think it's that bad in the grand scheme of things. I think it is when they're trying

to pull him out and he's all greased up. Oh, you're saying they won't be able to get a hold on him if he's all greased up. Obviously, yes. Again, they're not, they're not vasseling his arms or anything. They're just going to get his leg. I understand that the intention is to only get the leg. I'm just saying, how good can your aim be in this little tiny hole, whatever little man they shoved down there? Well, the little man they're shoving down there is Johnny Gerald. He's going to try this, okay? Okay. Johnny Gerald, Army crawled down.

He had confidently told the others he would have Floyd Collins out in the next hour. But when he arrived at the collapse, his stomach sank. There had been another collapse right in front of the original one. The light from the other side was gone. Johnny Gerald sat there for five minutes despondent. While he did, a rock fell on his head. Oh my God. It snapped him back to reality.

He started feverishly digging at the new collapse. Floyd, Floyd, he yelled. Gerald could barely make out a groan. Oh, Floyd, hold on, Gerald yelled as he dug and dug. Don't bother me, said Floyd. Gone home to bed and I'm going to sleep. Floyd was fading fast. His body had fallen into a state of shock.

He was falling in and out of consciousness. He had not had anything to eat or drink for about 24 hours now. But Johnny Gerald wouldn't give up. He kept digging. But as he did, in a flash, a massive 40-pound boulder fell from the ceiling right on Gerald's spine. Oh. He collapsed. Johnny Gerald screamed out in pain.

Panic seized to him. him. He immediately turned around and left Sand Cave. What's the matter, Johnny? asked one man. I'm done, Gerald replied. My nerves are gone. When Floyd's brother Homer saw Gerald and his crew exiting Sand Cave, he tried to rush in himself, but other men held him back. Leonidas Lee Collins, Floyd's father, begged his youngest son not to go back in. It must be the Lord's will, he said. Homer was beside himself with grief. He now believed his brother would die down there. On the surface, Johnny Gerald shared the news.

There had been another cave collapse. Henry Carmichael recalled that his hopes of saving Floyd dropped from 100 to zero in that moment. He ordered his crews not to go back into Sand Cave. It was suicidal. It was only a matter of time before San Cave squeezed Floyd Collins to death. Thursday, February 5th, 1925. That morning, truckloads of troops from the Kentucky National Guard pulled up to Sand Cave. The state was officially taking over rescue operations.

Well, where you been, boys? Where you been, boys? Let's find out. So up to that point, only local officials were overseeing the rescue. You know, like the marshal of Cave City. but they were obviously pretty ineffective. There were crowds of 250 rowdy, belligerent people who were drinking and they were openly breaking the law. The rescue work was disorganized. It was chaotic. Eventually, a telegram was sent to the governor of Kentucky that read, quote,

I feel the situation is such as to need the assistance of state troops to aid in more effective rescue work. And so the governor obliged. But at first, he sent 10 troops from nearby Smith's Grove. They had been at the rescue site the previous day when Johnny Gerald tried to dig through that cave collapse. And those 10 troops, they saw the chaos of the scene and they were like, they're like, the 10 of us against this drunken crowd of 250 locals. Yeah, that's awful. Yeah. They were like, we need backup.

Yeah. So they telegraphed for more help. It was time to send in the big guns. Along with truckloads of additional troops was the lieutenant governor and brigadier general of the Kentucky National Guard, Henry Denhart. And this dude was hardcore. Okay. General Denhart was a big, buff, bald boy. Okay.

We are talking Bruce Willis, Michael Cheney. Chickles, Jason Statham, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Howie Mandel. Okay, okay, we're all wet enough. Please, my chair is so... Please, there's Vaseline everywhere, which is exactly what I predicted. As soon as you heard Howie Mandel, we lost it. Don't talk to me about Howie Mandel. Denhart was a decorated military hero.

He had served in the Spanish-American War and World War I, Kristen. Wake up. He was known for his confrontational, aggressive attitude. He came off as rude, probably because he was rude. I wonder what his relationships with women were like. Oh, I'm sure they were great. More on that later. Oh, good.

Were all of his exes crazy? It's worse than that. General Denhardt immediately took control. He put an end to the illegal drinking. among the rowdy crowd. Many men dispersed. The fun was officially over. General Denhart then ordered Sand Cave to be closed up.

He banned anyone from entering the passageway. And then he gave the following order. We've ended all hope of reaching Collins by the easier method, through the cave's mouth. It is now up to you men to drill through the ground directly to Collins' side. Spare no expense. The purse strings of Kentucky are open. ask what you want. Wow.

So the new plan was they were going to dig a rescue shaft. Homer Collins immediately objected. A rescue shaft would take way too long. It would put the entire Sand Cave passageway at risk. They had to get back into Sand Cave and keep clearing it out. Johnny Gerald agreed. A rescue shaft was a complete waste of time. General Denhart turned to them and said bluntly,

quote, practical men have had their way. It takes men with brains to get him out. We'll sink a shaft. Okay. I've got thoughts. Let's hear it. Obviously, you need backup for crowd control. You need extra people.

But part of the thing I keep thinking is you also need these local people who know what they're doing. Right. They know what they're doing. Mm-hmm. And some arrogant guy from out of town probably doesn't have any experience with this. He doesn't. So he comes in with his big idea. Meanwhile, all his ideas are like trenches and stupid stuff from World War I.

We're all sick of hearing about it. I don't think you'd talk that way about Howie Mandel or Michael Chickles. You're right, I wouldn't. You are right that there was a little animosity between the state officials and the locals. Yeah. The state officials didn't think too highly of the locals. They thought, oh my gosh, it's been almost a week and you still can't get this guy out.

We're taking over. And the locals saw it as you guys aren't from here. You don't understand caves. You don't know what you're talking about and you're going to kill this man. Yeah, absolutely. And a rescue shaft had been suggested early on in the rescue. by that out-of-town or guy who nobody likes? Henry Carmichael.

Was that his name? Henry Carmichael, who was the superintendent of the Kentucky Rock Asphalt Company, he was, I think, the one that first suggests they dig a rescue shaft. But Johnny Gerald, who was an experienced caver, was a local, he convinced Carmichael. Don't think that's a good idea. Right. And I should mention that along with the Kentucky National Guard, General Denhardt, also brought in like a team of experts.

So there was engineers. There was professors, geologists, you know. So there were people who like understood caves. But as far as like local caving experience, yeah, you want to talk to the locals. Well, and it's one thing to have studied caves. It's another to have gone in them and shimmied down them. Well, and especially this cave. Yeah.

This was unlike anything. people had experienced before. So yeah, General Denhart kind of had a poopy-booty attitudey. And yeah, he said, we're going to dig a shaft, and that's that. Even William Skeets-Miller felt the weight of that decision. There was now no hope for saving Floyd Collins. In his article the next day for the Courier Journal, he wrote, quote, A corpse now lies in a relentless trap down in a rocky tunnel where,

but a few hours ago, an undaunted man lived on his faith and hope. Through the hours of agony, he kept his eyes on an imaginary ray of light, but the light is dark forever. There was no more going back into Sand Cave. General Denhart was all in on the rescue shaft. He asked Henry Carmichael,

superintendent of the Kentucky Rock Asphalt Company, to lead the dig. Henry Carmichael was happy to help. You know, he had advocated for the shaft when he had first arrived at Sand Cave a couple of days ago, and now he would finally get his wish, and he was going to get paid by the state to do it. The plan was to dig a six-foot-by-six-foot shaft, 60 feet down. State officials had sent in a team of experts, including engineers and professors, to calculate where to dig that shaft.

and they determined the shaft would be about 15 feet away from the sand cave entrance. And if their calculations were correct, the shaft would end up right behind Floyd Collins' legs, where they could remove the boulder and set him free. As state officials surveyed the area, locals began heckling them and mocking them. They would mock them with things like, Hey, everybody, I'm a stupid moron with another. face and a big butt and my butt smells and I like to kiss my own butt. That's a sick burn.

Yeah. So did the state officials start crying right there? Did they wait until later in the evening when they were in their hotel rooms? I think they mostly ignored them. Uh-huh. But it did make their job a little harder, being heckled. Well, yeah. Yeah.

So locals in the crowd were yelling, no, no, you don't want to dig there. You don't want to dig there. Floyd's not in that spot. Oh, my God. You're cutting down perfectly good trees. You're ruining the landscape. Oh, my God. You don't know anything about caves.

What are you doing? Was caution tape invented yet? It must not have been. I would have caution tape this whole thing. You're just going to wrap everybody in the crowd with caution tape? Yeah, 60 feet of caution tape. Well, they had something better, Kristen. It's called Men with Guns.

Oh. Troops from the Kentucky National Guard were dispersed to keep the crowds at while the rescue team worked. There was a growing resentment between the locals and government officials. Obviously, people were upset because they couldn't drink alcohol anymore. But General Denhart had also excluded a lot of the local volunteers from helping out. You know, the ones who had been there the past week, trying to free Floyd Collins. Denhart also refused to listen to people like Homer Collins and Johnny Gerald,

two men who had been there since the beginning, who had gone through Sand Cave, who had seen Floyd personally. You know, it felt like one of those situations where the locals are like, we can take care of our own, we don't want the government in our lives, you know, that kind of deal.

And at first, the locals seemed to have a point. The government brought in heavy machinery to dig that shaft, but almost immediately, they had to abandon them because the fumes from the engines were being sucked right into Sand Cave, which could potentially suffocate Floyd Collins.

The rowdy crowds were like, see, we told you, you don't know what you're doing, your fancy equipment won't work here. The crews also realized they couldn't use dynamite. They couldn't use compressed air drills. That could potentially cause further collapses inside Sand Cave. The work would have to be done the old-fashioned way, Kristen. What do they do?

Dig. Dig, dig, dig, dig, dig is what we like to do. The crew's digging that shaft could only use shovels and pickaxes. Now, on one hand, that is a ton of physical labor. Yes. If there's one thing I hate, Kristen, it's digging. What an awful, awful task. Don't worry, it's only 60 feet.

It's just 60 feet down. And you may run into some rocks, but we're just going to have to take a pickax. That's why you have your pickax. But on the other hand, digging doesn't really require much expertise. That's true. Which meant pretty much any able-bodied man could help dig the shaft. That afternoon, Cruz started digging. And at first, they made good progress.

Men quickly dug down about five feet. Henry Carmichael was ecstatic. If they could average two feet per hour, they would be able to reach Floyd Collins the next day. That meant there was a very good chance they could rescue him alive. But the further crews dug down, the harder it became. They were soon hitting hard, mixed rocks and boulders. The walls of the shaft had to be shored up to ensure they wouldn't collapse on the men that were digging at the bottom of the shaft. and as it got deeper, fewer and fewer men could work inside of it.

By 7 p.m. that evening, they had only gone down about 7 feet, so that's a rate of about 1 foot per hour. It was fair to wonder how Floyd Collins could possibly survive. When reporters questioned state officials, their response was, quote, we do not know whether Collins is alive or dead. But as far as we are concerned, he is alive until we reach him, and a physician officially pronounces him dead. It's hard to imagine what Floyd Collins was going through, 55 feet underground.

No one had been down to see him that day. He heard nothing. He saw nothing. Except maybe the faint glow of a light bulb laying on his chest. He lay motionless, unable to move, trapped in a cave of his own making. Friday, February 6th, 19. Floyd Collins had officially been stuck in Sand Cave for a week.

His chance of survival was slim to none. Morale was low amongst the rescue workers. But hey, at least the sun was out, which melted more groundwater and caused the shaft walls to slump. Oh. State officials thought, maybe it would be worth it to give people some doses of hopium to kind of get through that day. So an electrician attached a radio amplifier to the string of light bulbs that ran through Sand Cave and ended down where Floyd was stuck. The electrician believed if he could hear noises coming through that radio amplifier, that meant Floyd was moving around, meaning he was still alive. So the electrician flicked the lights on and off as a signal for Floyd to move, like a rat in a lab experiment.

And then he listened with earphones. He heard clicks and crackles And he said Oh my gosh I think Floyd's moving around He's alive Now Experts around the country

Were very skeptical of this experiment Yeah Could be total bullshit Could just be Electrical interference When you just hear crackles And clicks Mm-hmm

But it worked I mean people Spirits were up When they heard that Okay I mean if that's the goal Then mission accomplished Kind of how I feel about it

Yeah. And then doctors on the scene shared great news. You know how the sun is out and it's melting ice and kind of fucking up our rescue shaft? I know that sucks, but that means water is trickling down to Floyd Collins and dripping on his face. Floyd could survive on that water alone for several days. Hooray! Yeah, I don't know. I mean, at a certain point, when do you call a rescue mission off?

Yeah, it's a great question. I do kind of like that the state is trading it as like Floyd's alive until we pull him out of there. Because you do think, okay, sure, the odds are he's going to die. Of course. But at least you can... Or that he's already dead. Yeah. But at least you can get his body out of there and you can return it to his family and give him a proper burial.

Yeah. Now, on the other hand, this is dangerous work. Even digging the rescue shaft is incredibly dangerous. That's what I keep thinking about. Yeah. Who else is going to die trying to save Floyd Collins? Right. And are we going to do this for everyone who finds themselves in this position?

Right. Probably not. Mm-hmm. The light bulb experiment and the news of dripping water. That wasn't exactly game-changing. But, you know, it was effective at boosting the morale of the men doing the back-breaking work of digging that shaft. Obviously, if they had a hope that Floyd was still alive, their work had more purpose. As work continued, the Collins family watched nearby.

Daddy Lee Collins limped back and forth near the shaft, rambling and praying for salvation for his son. More of Floyd's family was at the rescue site, too, for the first time. There was Floyd's stepmother, who everyone called Miss Jane, his younger sister, Nellie, his other younger brother, Andy Lee. That's that southern thing, two first names. I know. It was a sight to behold. Trucks full of food, equipment, and tents poured into the area. The National Red Cross was on hand to provide medical attention and meals for more than 200 rescue workers.

Troops surrounded the scene, keeping the locals at bay from interfering. For Floyd's stepmother, Miss Jane, this was all too much. All of this stuff, the manpower, the resources, the equipment. This was all to save Floyd. You know, Miss Jane knew Floyd was stuck, but she had no idea it was this bad. She eventually fainted and had to be taken to a medical tent. Meanwhile, Homer Collins was scheming. He wanted to get back into Sand Cave to help his brother.

He tried multiple times that day to sneak back in. Guards ordered him away. My brother's in there. You can't keep me out, he yelled. I didn't write this part down. Mm-hmm. But Homer Collins claimed he was able to sneak back into Sand Cave. Okay.

And crawl down to the collapse. And he yelled for his brother, but he didn't hear anything. But, you know, that's coming from Homer Collins only. Okay. No other source said he was able to get back in there. Do you believe that or no? Personally, I'm leaning towards I don't believe it just because the National Guard was guarding Sand Cave's entrance. Yeah.

had blocked it off. And I just find it hard to believe that he would be able to get around the guards. It's interesting. The only thing that makes it a little more believable to me is that he didn't hear anything back from Floyd. Yeah, that's true. Because that's not an exciting story. Right. I got down there and heard nothing.

And I feel like if you're going to make something up, you would go for the more exciting story. That's true. But yeah, Homer said when he snuck back in there and he got to, to the collapse and he shouted for Floyd but he didn't hear anything. That's kind of when he decided that's it. You know, Floyd's dead. Yeah. Homer Collins wasn't the only one wanting to get back into Sand Cave. Johnny Gerald was also pushing for it. Johnny Gerald had spent the earlier part of his day screaming at his arch nemesis, Lieutenant Robert Burden. Lieutenant Burden was trying to pump warm air into Sand Cave because he wanted to make sure Floyd Collins didn't

get hypothermia. Wait, the cave-in all happened because of all that humidity from all those dudes working. Exactly. This man. So when Johnny Gerald saw Lieutenant Burden doing this, he screamed at him. Yeah. He said, what are you doing? Yes.

You are going to cause more collapses. By that point, Lieutenant Burden was sick of it all, and he eventually decided, I'm out. Okay, good. Goodbye. You sound like Judge Judy there. Bye. Bye.

Don't let the door hit you. As he departed the rescue site, Burden told a group of reporters that the reason this rescue had failed was because the natives were, quote, stupid and incompetent. Come on, man. And then he hopped into his car and he returned to Louisville. Oh. Oh, my God. Do we have breaking news? Breaking news, Kristen.

We do. I've got breaking news on the pronunciation of Louisville. You already corrected this last week. So in part one, I called it Louisville. Right. Well, I got quite a bit of feedback on that. And I was told, oh, actually, it's pronounced Louisville. Okay.

Well, now I'm being told live on air. No. That it's actually pronounced Louisville. Louville. Lovil. Louville. Louville. Two syllables. I apologize to our Kentucky hose. I am deeply ashamed. Hashtag mistakes of, oh my God. Breaking news, Kristen. I'm getting another update on this. I've just gotten word that it's actually not pronounced Louville. It's actually pronounced. Wow. Can you believe that? What a beautiful city.

So there you go That is actually how you pronounce it Once again I do apologize I hope that one day We get to visit the great city of Kentucky When we go there I will take my little slugger with me

I have gotten I think Four different pronunciations Of this city From four people Who claim to live in Louisville And they're all different What you need to do, we need to put all these people in a ring and have them fight it out.

I watched a news segment on YouTube from like a local reporter who like interviewed like 10 people in Louisville and was like, how do you pronounce the name of our city? And they all had a different answer. It's crazy. I like the one we just got though. Yeah. That sounds right to me. Sure. Anyway, let me get back to our story.

Hopefully we don't get any more breaking news. Well, you can't help it when that happens. Yeah, this interrupts the story. I know. So yeah, Johnny Gerald, he basically chased Lieutenant Robert Burden out of town. That afternoon, he was still P-I-S-S-E-D. Specifically, he was pissed about Sand Cave being blocked off. The shaft is no damn good.

We got to go back in the passageway, he yelled. Henry Carmichael seemed to take offense at Gerald criticizing his big beautiful shaft. He told him that Floyd's life was now in the hands of engineers, like himself, and not the, quote, hit or miss work of the natives. Johnny Gerald was like...

Yeah. The two men argued back and forth. General Denhart eventually had to step in. Gerald, you can't go in. My God, man, do you want to commit suicide? Hell no, replied Gerald. But God damn it, you're killing Floyd.

You and all these other dumb sons of bitches. General Denhart was like, He motioned for a guard. Get him the hell out of here, he commanded. Both Homer Collins and Johnny Gerald were ejected from the rescue site for their behavior. And if you thought the animosity between the locals and state officials was bad before, who, boy, you ain't seen nothing yet. Homer and Johnny Gerald went to the hillside and riled up the local crowds.

They chit-chatted with all the reporters. Homer Collins told one reporter that he would gladly risk his life for his brother if it wasn't for, quote, that military bastard. Oh. Unbeknownst to Homer and Johnny Gerald, though, General Denhart had installed some soldiers in plain clothes to spy on the locals. They reported that the crowd was getting. restless. There was talk of everybody grabbing their squirrel rifles and chasing off the National Guard.

Johnny Gerald in particular was really firing up the locals. General Denhart immediately put a stop to it. He outright banned Johnny Gerald from returning anywhere near the rescue site. More troops were brought in for protection. A makeshift barbed wire fence was installed around the rescue site. And eventually the crowd settled down. I know you wanted caution tape, Kristen, but how about the makeshift barbed wire fence? It's a much less polite way to go. Yeah, I think so. Meanwhile, work on the rescue shaft was stalling. By the end of Friday, it was only 17 feet deep. Henry Carmichael had missed his prediction of 30 hours to reach Floyd. They still had 43 more feet of digging to go. Morale plummeted once again. An old man in the crowd watching the dig muttered, quote,

Prayer will now do more for Floyd Collins than all the shovels in the world. Saturday, February 7th, 1925. Things sure weren't going well at Sand Cave. Animosity between the locals and state officials was at an all-time high. The rescue shaft dig was stalling, and Floyd Collins remained trapped. That morning, General Denhart decided to change strategies. Maybe they had to take a less, a thing. authoritative approach? He and Henry Carmichael spoke to the crowd about the rescue shaft,

how it was the safest way to save Floyd Collins. Sending more people into Sand Cave was a death trap. They were doing this to protect everybody, including the locals. Government officials also ran a series of audio tests, running a drill in the shaft while a couple of men went into sand cave to listen, and they confirmed, yeah, they were digging in the right place. They also hung a light bulb right above sand cave. It was connected to the string of lights that led down to Floyd Collins. And the idea was that as long as that bulb remained lit above the cave, Floyd Collins was getting warmth and light inside the cave. Basically, that light symbolized Floyd's condition. You know, if the light was on, Floyd was alive. If it went out,

he was dead. All of these actions seemed to calm the crowd down. And that was a good thing because, wow, there were more and more people showing up to Sand Cave every day. On Saturday, an estimated 2,000 people were huddled around the barbed wire fence watching men painstakingly dig the rescue shaft. As a result, B. Doyle's property was in rough shape. It looked like a cross between a salvage yard and a summer carnival. B. Doyle said, strangers' horses had raided his corn crib, emptying it out. His water pump was broken. His fields were completely torn up. Cave City had never seen such an influx of people. Local restaurants ran out of food and put up signs saying, bread and water only.

Hotels were putting five strangers into one room to keep up with demand. It's a great way to find out what happens when people stop being polite. And start being real. That's right. Isn't that the formula? Five strangers picked to live in a hotel room? Basically. I think they had something bigger than a hotel room on the real world.

Hey, hey, I'm trying to make it work. Maybe if they reboot the real world, that's what they can do. I think that's great. Five strangers, Ramada Inn, no rules. Gross! In Poole-Luk, Kentucky. In Poole-L Kentucky. Locals started an old-school Uber system, offering rides to San Cave for a small fee.

A reporter on the scene stated, quote, Not since the gold rush into Alaska has such a scene been duplicated. The rescue of Floyd Collins had become a full-blown national event. And one big reason was the radio. This story was the first major non-political event to get major radio coverage nationwide. Every evening, families huddled around the radio to get the latest updates on the rescue of Floyd Collins. President Calvin Coolidge was given daily reports on the situation. U.S. Secretary of Commerce and future president Herbert Hoover also followed the story closely.

as a former mining engineer, he took a particular interest in it. A wave of newspaper reporters were on the scene to get updates. But you know, the work on the rescue shaft, it was going super slow. You know, there's only so many updates you can get. Right. I mean, what are they going to say? Oh, we dug another six inches. Boring!

So instead, many newspapers temporarily turned to the National Enquirer. They wrote unflattering articles about the locals. They gobbled up all the juicy gossip they could and portrayed the Collins family as caricatures. Leonidas Lee Collins was described as a Bible thumping poor hill farmer from the backwoods of Kentucky, which honestly, that one was actually kind of accurate. Sure. But unflattering. Well, I mean, it doesn't have to be flattering.

Mm-hmm. You're going for accuracy. Now, a good question would be, why? Why do we need this scorching portrait of the victim's father? I don't think we need it. Now, I will say, Lee Collins loved talking to reporters. Yeah. He talked to anybody.

Yeah. And eventually the reporters stopped talking to him. Yes. They found him mentally unstable. Oh. You know what? that kind of tracks because some of the stuff you have said about him

has just seemed wild. Oh yeah. He has seemed very uncaring about his son. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's funny, it's like, you would think leaning on God in this situation

would be a real comfort to a person. But the way he's doing it is weird. Of like, well, this is God's will, I guess. Yeah, it's almost unsympathetic in a way. Almost. It is unsympathetic in a way. I'm starting to think this guy's a bit of a jerk.

Yeah, as we'll learn in the finale of this series, which I promise is next week. You know what? I've been lied to a lot lately, including about how to pronounce Kentucky. I know, it's horrible. So I don't know what to believe. I'm doing a terrible job as the co-host of this podcast. Oh, Norman. But as you'll learn in the next part.

Lee Collins did some just awful stuff later on. Okay. As you'll learn. Well, now I'm intrigued. Mm-hmm. They wrote about Homer Collins, who had worked tirelessly to save his brother. They portrayed him as just some dumb hick. But, you know, he was good-natured.

Then there was Floyd's younger sister, Nellie. Oh, she's very shy, but listen up, fellas. She's a virgin. Ew, stop. Here's the reality. Nellie was very shy. She had a history of mental illness. In fact, she had just been released from a six-month stay at an asylum. There were wild rumors about Floyd Collins, too. Apparently, he had quite a few love interests in the area. But his one true love was a woman named Alma Clark. According to one report, Alma Clark came to the rescue site and threw herself at the entrance of Sand Cave. She yelled out, oh, Floyd, my husband. And then she fainted, Kristen. They always did in these stories.

You know, I bet you this brought a lot of weird women out. Think so? Norman. Because, okay, I thought what you said in the beginning was beautiful and an excellent point about how, well, I guess you didn't say it. You were quoting it. You know, you read about. You can give me all the credit. You read about Lindberg, okay, I can't picture myself up there in that plane with them, you know, whatever.

But yet, there's something about this story. And I think it's why so many listeners have been like, this story makes me uncomfortable is like we hear about this and we put ourselves in that cave. And it's like you can feel it. You can just, it's scary to think about for too long. And so, yeah, a lot of people are feeling that. But I think also for a certain percent of the population, they get the tingle thinking about Oh, how I would like to nurse this man back to health.

I want to save him. If I could get on down there and be his hero baby, I'm just telling you. No, I... The same women who write love letters to serial killers in prison. The Venn diagram is just one circle in this sense. It's exactly what I was thinking of. Thank you.

And also, yeah, those newspaper reporters, they just needed stories. So they were making up all kinds of shit. Yeah. Now, the truth was Alma Clark was a real person. She was a family friend of the Collins. Sure. She was 17 years old. She had zero interest in Floyd Collins and described him as, quote, an old man. Yeah. Because she was a child. And Floyd Collins was 37. Earlier on this series, though, you said that 17 adjusted for inflation is 42. So I don't know what to think. That's true. That's true. So really, she was older than Floyd.

Kristen, even the pets couldn't escape the rumor mill. The damn pets. Did they say mean things about their pets? No, it wasn't mean. They've got a dumb dog, but he's good-natured. They've got a racist dog. No, one story said that Floyd Collins had a dog named Old Shep. And when Floyd got trapped in Sand Cave, Old Shep sat at the entrance, crying, waiting for Floyd to come out.

Old Shep refused any and all food. He was dying of a broken heart. This is clearly a rip-off of the Hachiko story, Kristen. Yes. In reality, the Collins family had a family dog named Obie. He was a Chinese chow. He was hanging out around the rescue site. He had no problem accepting food from anybody.

And Homer Collins had to constantly warn people not to pet him because Obie hated strangers and would bite them. Obie sounds great. Obie does sound like he's there for a good time. Yeah, Obie, bite whatever reporter is asking Nellie about her virginity. Yeah, no kidding. Saturday ultimately proved to be a slow, ineffective workday for the rescue crews. They had only gone down three more feet.

40 more to go. Floyd Collins was still trapped. He had not had any food in four days. There were no signs of life. When a reporter asked Henry Carmichael, when they thought they could get to Floyd, he replied, quote, If we get Collins out of there by Tuesday, I will stand up and sing the doxology. Sunday, February 8, 1925. The weather was unusually warm that day.

60 degrees. And that certainly contributed to the enormous crowds that day. day at Sand Cave. It's unclear how many people were there. Low estimates say 10,000. Wow. High estimates claim 50,000. Either way, that was a lot of people. One reporter described it as, quote, a county fair with a religious revival thrown in. Religious groups huddled around as fiery preachers delivered sermons and prayed for Floyd Collins, while loud drills and equipment, banged in the background. A juggler entertained crowds of onlookers. Food vendors sold hot dogs, hamburgers, popcorn, pies. Moonshiners offered up tonic to curious adults. Kids carried

blue balloons with the words sand cave printed on them. Criminals pickpocketed visitors or solicited fake donations for Floyd Collins. Reporter William Skeets Miller couldn't believe what he was scene. In an article for the Courier Journal, he wrote, quote, If Floyd Collins could have looked from his underground prison today, he would have seen thousands of strangers trying bravely to get a ringside seat in the fight being made to save him. Daddy Lee Collins was enjoying the moment. He was turning into quite the celebrity with the crowds. Strangers came up to him nonstop to hear stories about Floyd. Lee had no problem chitty chatting away and taking money from people. Oh, you want a photo of my son? Yeah, that's a

dollar each. Oh, you want a photo with me? Sure, but, you know, that's going to cost you. Oh, you want to donate to the rescue. Sure, yeah, I'll take that money. Will it actually get to the people who need it? Maybe. He's giving away pictures of his son. He is selling photos of his son, yes, who's trapped below him. I guess the thing that just strikes me as like, back then, that was all you had. You know, you couldn't duplicate. Or maybe. Surely they had made copies.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. I made it way worse of my head. Oh, you think he was giving away like originals? That's what I was assuming. I mean, further research needed, I guess. Possibly he was, but I just read he was giving away photos of Floyd.

Okay. As a circus-like atmosphere took place above ground, work in the shaft continued. By 1 p.m., they had reached 24 feet. State officials now had the same thought that every aspiring inventor does, Kristen. What do they say? There's got to be a better way. There's got to be a better way. Surely there's another way into Sand Cave.

Do we seriously have to keep digging this stupid shaft? So they did an experiment. they filled a sand cave with a harmless gas. You know, it wouldn't kill Floyd Collins, it wouldn't suffocate them. Okay. And then a bunch of volunteers who they deemed as sniffers would roam around and they would look for areas where that gas was coming out of the ground. Unfortunately, they weren't able to find any other entrances to Sand Cave. That was it.

The rescue of Floyd Collins seemed to be at a standstill. The government intervening certainly brought a ton of resources and order to the situation, but at the same time, it seemed like no progress had been made to actually save Floyd. No one had any clue when they would get him out.

Rescue workers now assumed that Floyd Collins was certainly dead. Yeah. But they wouldn't know for sure until they pulled out his body. Monday, February 9th, 1925. With the rescue at a standstill, still, everyone involved started playing the blame game.

Who was to blame for this mess? Well, let's ask Lieutenant Robert Burden. He gave an interview with several Louisville newspapers. Oh, sorry, the... Ploom newspapers. And Lieutenant Burton said that, you know what, honestly, I think I should get the most credit for trying to save Floyd Collins. I was definitely the most successful.

You know, the rope pulling and the jack idea? that was all me. Of course, Lieutenant Burden completely neglected to mention the efforts of William Skeets Miller. Oh, and actually, Lieutenant Burden, he could have gotten Floyd out

if it wasn't for this guy named Johnny Gerald. Oh, come on. Johnny Gerald was a damn liar. The cave hadn't actually collapsed that bad. Johnny Gerald just wanted the glory for himself, so he made it all up. This is awful.

Yeah. Lieutenant Burden astonishingly stated the following. quote, I think that there are two or three men down there that are guilty of nothing short of murder. I won't tell you their names because I haven't got anything to prove it with, but I guess you know what I mean. Oh my God. Lieutenant Burden's interview was stunning. Newspapers around the country wrote up headlines like Floyd Collins' victim of bungling rescue attempts.

And murder is hinted in cave probe. See, now they have, I hate to call it a story, but like they've been making up these stupid stories. Now they've got some idiot saying some real shit. Who was there? Yes. Now, he's making stuff up. Or embellishing greatly. Murder?

Murder. He's making that up. That is insane. That's just not reality. He's making that up about this man's friends and fans. and family who were trying to save him. And yeah, I get that you didn't like them, but imagine if we just got to call people murderers

when we did not like them. It'd be great, Kristen. Yeah. It'd be so cool. In fact, I think I'll do it from now on. Next time you piss me out, Kristen, I'm just going to call you a murderer. I'm going to call up the local paper.

I'm going to tweet it out. My wife, Kristen Caruso, is a murderer. On Twitter, no one will see it. Oh shit. Yeah, Twitter doesn't exist anymore. That's right. Damn it. I'm going to post it on my MySpace. How about that? I'll write something nasty about you on my Zanga and then Bing Bang Boom or even. You want to hear another rumor going around? Yeah.

This was all a hoax. Floyd Collins wasn't even in that cave. This was just a tourist trap designed to get people to visit the area. Honestly, not bad. That one semi- Okay, so I only say that's semi-believable because people pulled shit like this. Yeah. During the Kentucky Cave Wars. Like, oh, we found a mummy down here.

Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, Kristen, your cave, your dead grandma was in there. Oh, sorry, your grandma was alive in there. That's the draw of my cave. It's the teeniest, tiniest, tiniest, little cave you ever did see. Yeah. And I've wrapped my grandma in several rolls of toilet paper, and she's going, And so I've got a zombie mummy.

Incredible. And people fell for it. Well, you're at least going to come see it. Well, yeah, it's like best burger in town on the billboard. It's like, well, I'll be the judge of that. My zombie mummy grandmother is also the cook at the little fry stand. I got the best zombie mummy in the mammoth cave area. You're going to visit.

So, yeah, people are like, oh, this is just a tourist trap to get people to come. come visit. Also, I saw Lee Collins collecting donations, and I bet he pocketed all that money for himself. Well, I mean, that might be true, though. That might be true. Oh, you know what else I heard? I heard the Collins family gave Johnny Gerald a couple thousand bucks to go save Floyd, but Johnny Gerald just pocketed the money and then he pretended to help. Poor Johnny Gerald. Yeah, he's getting destroyed. No good deed goes unpunished. That sums it up, I think. Don't get me wrong, Johnny Gerald was a little rough around the edges.

He was not easy to work with. Oh, he was super rough around the edges. He was an asshole. But he did so much to try and save Floyd. Yes. Johnny Gerald was appalled at the accusations. He denied everything and reiterated that he wanted to help in any way he could. Unfortunately, he had been banned from the rescue site by that asshole, General Denhart.

These accusations against Johnny Gerald once again riled up the locals. One reporter from the Chicago Tribune received a death threat that read, quote, If you don't quit writing up Johnny Gerald, we will shoot your head off. He never done no one harm. Take our advice and get out of town, or are you going to wake up dead? You'd hate to wake up dead. First stop. I know it's a little late to try to do PR for Johnny Gerald here,

but I will say if someone is accusing you of being a murderer, I would suggest not threatening murder on random reporters. Hey, Johnny Gerald didn't do it. These locals are doing it. Uh-huh. So yeah, this Chicago Tribune reporter gets this death threat, and he's just like, I'm out.

He went back to Chicago. He was not going to lose his life over this story. The swirling accusations and. rumors and blame. It was all too much for state officials. The governor thought, this really makes Kentucky look bad? Like, really stupid and awful? You know, this was a national news story. You know, the president's keeping up with it. Something had to be done. General Denhart thought so too. And, you know, any chance for him to flop his dong out on the table, General Denhart was going to take it. And so he announced that the Kentucky National Guard would hold

a military court of inquiry to investigate all of these wild claims. Now, a court of inquiry has no power to prosecute or punish people. It's more of like a fact-finding mission, so they would gather evidence and determine once and for all if there was any foul play.

Tuesday, February 10th, 1925. At 10 a.m., as rescue workers continued digging the shaft, the military court of inquiry opened up in downtown cave city, and it would carry on for the rest of the week. So I know I've been doing this story kind of day to day, but I'm just going to cover the rest of this week because it was really just like the military court of inquiry and they're digging the shaft kind of every day. So let me sum it up for you.

General Denhart presided over the proceedings, dressed in full. full uniform, medals pinned all over his jacket just to let everyone know, not to fuck around with him! William Skeets Miller was one of the first men to testify. As a reporter, his testimony was very factual, very unbiased. He admitted that there seemed to be some sort of competition to save Floyd Collins, and that the locals had a hard time trusting him. time trusting outsiders.

But ultimately, Miller said there wasn't really anything sinister about it. Right. Everyone was just trying to save Floyd. Then came the testimony of Lieutenant Robert Burden. The man who was blabbing non-stop and throwing out wild accusations like murder. Of course, now that he was in front of a military court, he was more like, Did I do that? Lieutenant Burden toned down his harsh rhetoric.

He confessed that he often clashed with the locals, but also said, quote, I guess I was wild and hysterical several times myself. He agreed that the rescue shaft was the only way to save Floyd Collins. In fact, he wished they had started on it sooner. Too bad Johnny Gerald got in the way. Ouch. How would Johnny Gerald respond to this? Uh-oh. He couldn't let Lieutenant Robert Burton get away with it.

The hype was real as Johnny Gerald made his way to the witness stand. I really like Johnny Gerald. I'm afraid he's going to mess this whole thing up. Don't worry, Kristen. Unfortunately for reporters who were just, you know, filled with anticipation. Yeah. They were waiting. They were hyped up. Gerald's testimony was pretty... Boring.

Okay. Good. Go ahead and ask me anything you like, he told the officials. He had nothing to hide. Johnny Gerald, matter-of-factly, recalled the events of the past week. He admitted that the men disagreed on how to save Floyd. He said he was against Lieutenant Burden's rope pool because, quote, Floyd was my friend, and I didn't want Lieutenant Burden to pull him loose because I thought Floyd would be killed.

Yeah. Homer Collins provided a similar test. testimony. Everyone was just trying their best to save Floyd. When pressed on keeping outsiders away from San Cave, Homer said it was out of an abundance of caution. It was super dangerous. They didn't want people getting killed trying to rescue his brother. Well, don't tell that to one of the other witnesses, Kristen. It was a fella named Samuel Matlack. Samuel Matlack was the guy who wanted to use a blowtorch. down in Sam Cave. I don't know if you remember that idea.

I do remember it. And just like his blow torch, Samuel Matlack was fired up. He told military officials he could have saved Floyd. Dude, you're not going to melt rocks. Hey, hang on. Let's hear him out.

Let's hear what he has to say, Kristen. Okay. Now, just a little correction for you. Uh-huh. They're not going to melt the rocks. They're just going to soften them up. Okay. And then they can chip away at them.

That's the point of the blowtorch. Now the idea makes perfect sense. Samuel Matlach said he had poked his head into Sand Cave, and it wasn't that bad. But they wouldn't let him in. General Denhart pressed Matlack for more information. Who is they? he asked. Matlack shouted back, everyone! A man's life was being sacrificed for the hope of hero worship.

So one military official was really sick of this guy. Yeah. And he called him out. He said, quote, Who should the court believe? The men who went down and risked their lives to save a man's life? Mm-hmm. Or you who didn't have the nerve to go down.

Get out of here. So they fucking kicked him out, Kristen. Wow. Him and his blow torch. Shut up your ass. The final testimony came from Floyd's father. Leonidas Lee Collins. We like to call him Daddy Lee Collins on this podcast.

We do not like that. Lee Collins was facing a few accusations himself, including one that he was part of a hoax to make money off the rescue. Yeah. Lee's testimony was rambly and often incoherent. He talked about Floyd's obsession with caves and wanting to find a commercially viable one. You know, that's how he got stuck in Sand Cave. This was no hoax. Lee defended Johnny Gerald, saying that he never paid him to rescue Floyd.

Johnny Gerald never asked for money. He only said, Lee, I'll go in and get him out. Lee Collins also denied trying to make money off the rescue. According to him, all of the donations he received were being handled by a trust set up at the local bank. And as for the accusation that Floyd wasn't in Sand Cave, Lee replied, quote, I will just say that if that boy ain't in there, I'll give up all my part of heaven. But just then, the court received breaking news, Kristen. During Lee's testimony, William Skeets Miller received a telegram that said the following.

Please contradict statements that I am buried alive in Sand Cave. Tell Mother, I am all right. Am coming home. Signed Floyd Collins. Oh, my God! People suck. That is so bad. When Miller showed the telegram to Lee, he laughed.

Yeah. Floyd don't call a stepmom mother, Lee said. Mm. And that was that. Yeah. It's unclear who sent that fake telegram. Well, of course, it's unclear. No one's going to be like, that was me.

Oh, my bad. I thought it'd be funny. I thought it'd be really cute. It's just a prank, bro. Yeah. Just a terrible, awful prank. It was just more evidence of the wild rumors and speculation happening during this rescue operation. Yeah.

At the end of the week, the military court of inquiry ultimately concluded that no foul play had occurred. There was no hoax. Floyd Collins was definitely trapped in Sand Cave. In fact, the only thing anyone was guilty of was mistrust. Many of the men at the rescue site had refused help during the rescue. critical moments. Writer Lucas Riley summed it up perfectly, so I'm just going to quote him. Okay.

They were not hungry for publicity, but starved of trust. Each rescue team believed that the competing rescuers were incompetent, which was partly true. The people with knowledge of caves lacked organizational skills. The people with organizational skills lacked knowledge of caves. The resulting tension, a cocktail of mistrust, pride and exhaustion caused the rescue to sputter from the start. And I think that sums it up perfectly what the vibe was like at Sand Cave. I think so too.

It's just, it's toxic pride. The inability to see, okay, here's where my knowledge gaps are. And I'm going to have to work with you. And I need you to help me with it. You know, it takes some humility. to say that. And sadly, Floyd is the one who suffers from this toxic pride. Yeah. It's awful. I can't imagine being trapped down there and people are just bickering above you. It's their own fear. And, you know, you're trying to rescue your friend, your loved one. Yeah. Or you're trying to rescue someone

because you want a promotion, there's a lot of fear that goes into all of that. And fear can bring out ugly things in people. And when you're trying to do something, and I don't want to use the word fail because it's like, God, this was probably an almost impossible task they were up against. And it was amazing and brave that they even attempted it. But in that moment, I imagine you are just feeling like a. failure and you're frustrated and it's easier to blame other people. The other thing I read was, you know, a few sources were like, why didn't they just do this?

Why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do this? And the older I get, the more I don't really like hindsight. Because it does kind of make you feel bad. Like you think about decisions you could have made in the past And you're like gosh, why did I do that? If only I had known it's like you just did the best you could in that moment And you shouldn't like that's not a reflection on you, you know

Yeah, I think these men came together and tried to save someone And that's a beautiful thing. And it's funny we can come up with all kinds of why didn't they do X, Y or Z but part of me wonders like, well, do you have enough context? Because context made me understand why Floyd went down there in the first place. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you wonder, why the hell is this guy down there?

Sure. And honestly, if you hadn't provided that, I think I wouldn't be able to see like the humanity as much in this story. So you're saying I did an incredible job. Yeah. But you know what I mean about hindsight? I've been going through this in therapy lately. Yeah. Because I feel like I suffer from this of like I think back on my life.

Yeah. And I'm like, oh, if only I had done this. Right. And done this. And it like gets me down. And my therapist has helped me understand like, well, you just made the best decision you could. You didn't have the knowledge and experience. Right.

And so it's stupid to like. Oh, your therapist calls you stupid. Yeah. You're just an idiot. And you're stupid. And in hindsight, I shouldn't have taken you. on as a client. It was a huge mistake.

Now I feel stupid for doing this with you. No, but you know what I mean? No, I do. It's easy for all of us to look back on our lives and be like, I should have done this differently. I should have done this. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's easy because we have the blueprint now. Right.

We know how it goes. We didn't have it before. And it's the same with this cave stuff. It's like, oh yeah, maybe people can come up with better ideas now. but that's only because you have all the information in front of you. Yeah. Now, don't get me wrong. Some of the ideas I read were like, oh, yeah, that would have been a good idea.

Of course. Of course, yeah. I mean, they're not all going to be stupid ideas. Yeah. And somebody probably could have very well come up with the exact right idea that would have worked just fine and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. One of them was they should have sent a feeding tube down there so they could just feed him nonstop, you know? Before the cave collapsed. Could they have liquefied all of those sausage sandwiches?

Get the industrial blender. It runs on diesel fuel. But yeah, that mistrust just kind of complicated things during the rescue. Yeah. During a critical time. And it sucks. Meanwhile, as the military court of inquiry wrapped up its investigation, work on the rescue shaft continued.

It was slow, back-breaking work. compounded by multiple days of rain. They had to put up a massive canvas tent over the shaft just to keep the area from flooding. Luckily, Henry Carmichael had no shortage of help that week. People from all over the region were there to help dig. Engineers, miners, drillers, surveyors, day laborers, college kids, homeless people. Hell, a local football team showed up to dig. Some young strapping boys.

And these were the unsung heroes of the rescue of Floyd Collins. Anonymous folk who just wanted to help. When a reporter asked one volunteer minor why he was helping, the man replied, I'm a minor. I'm going to Floyd Collins because he'd do the same for me. with so many people working from all walks of life, Henry Carmichael prioritized safety. Men were constantly tasked with shoring up the shaft walls. There was plenty of food and medical care for everyone.

And incredibly, no one was killed or seriously injured digging that rescue shaft. That was a testament to Henry Carmichael's leadership. By Thursday, February 12th, 1925, the shaft was down 48 feet. There were signs they were getting close. Cave crickets popped out of holes. That harmless gas they shot into Sand Cave several days earlier was now seeping out of the shaft.

The next day, Friday, February 13th, 1925, workers uncovered a four-foot crevice at the bottom of the shaft. Work came to a halt when one worker claimed he heard somebody coughing from the crevice. Could it be Floyd? Henry Carmichael couldn't believe it. He immediately sent two of his most experienced miners into Sand Cave to investigate. One of them was a man named Edward Brenner.

Brenner was originally from Bavaria. He had come to the United States as a teenager, and he had worked in several coal mines before becoming a steel worker in Cincinnati. Edward Brenner had read about Floyd Collins' plight in the newspe. paper and how they were looking for help. Brenner had saved many people in the coal mines, so he paid his own way to get to Sand Cave. And now he was inside Sand Cave, checking for signs of life from Floyd Collins. Brenner made his way to the collapse. For an hour, he tapped on the rocks blocking his path, listening for a response. But there was nothing but silence. Then, just as Brenner was

leaving, he thought he heard something beyond the collapse. Oh my God, he's alive. Brenner excitedly shouted over and over, Floyd, hold on, we're coming. Hold on. How many days has it been? Like how long has Floyd been down there? Yeah. Two weeks. Or are you asking how long has it been since he's been fed? Since he's been fed? A little over a week. Okay. So Brenner is just shouting over and over. We're coming, we're coming. But he never heard a response. Still, the events of that day caused rumors to pick up again nationwide. Floyd was alive. His rescue was imminent. Everybody stand by. But the truth was, there were no signs of life from Floyd Collins. Floyd had now been trapped for two weeks. He hadn't had any food or water in more than eight days, unless you

count the drops trickling onto his face. Further tests with the radio amplifier showed no movement coming from his natural tomb deep down in Sand Cave. And that evening, as a soft rain fell on the rescue site, the light bulb above Sand Cave, that warm symbol of hope that Floyd Collins was still alive, finally went dark. On the next episode of an old-timey podcast and the finale of this series, The rescue crews finally reach Floyd Collins, but was he alive? Oh, this has been a really good series. Thank you. What an incredible story.

It's wild. I love learning about these events that captured everyone's attention for however long, and then we all forget about them. No kidding. It's fascinating to me, because I've never heard this story before, and I feel like a lot of Our listeners haven't either, because they're all so stupid, you know. I was going to say the same thing. Yeah. Well told, Normie C.

Thank you. So part four is the finale. I promise. Ew, don't. Quast my haunting hope to die. Oh, my God, I hate that so much. No, part four is the finale. We're moving on, folks.

We've got to move on. There's no time. There's no time. We've got to learn about the WienerMobile. We have to. That's Patreon only. baby. Speaking of Patreon only,

we have our slop segment today. Yes, we do. Kristen, what are we talking about for the pig butter investors on the slop? Okay, well, you and I had a debate over what we should discuss, and it was either going to be our thoughts on 90-day fiancé, which we watch every week, or stories from our local sauna because you have some weird stories. I kind of want to talk about the sauna. You want to talk about the sauna?

I kind of do. And maybe if people want us to talk about 90-day fiancé next week, fine. I guess we will. Oh, my God. Share our incredible thoughts on that show. Jeez. Okay, let's do it. This segment of the slop will henceforth be known as Tales from the sauna.

Let's get into it. Folks, we just wrapped up a disgusting segment of the slop. It was extra sloppy this week. It was actually pretty sloppy. Norm's tales from the sauna. And listen, I guarantee this is going to be a regular slop segment because I go to the sauna quite a bit now, and I'm going to have more stories.

I just know it. I, but your assignment norm. Is to talk to these people, I know. And I don't want to do it. You look so sad. I feel like I've been assigned homework. You have. I hate homework.

Do it for the pod. All right, all right. All right. Well done, Norm. Should we wrap up this episode? Let's do it. You know what they say about history, hoes? We always cite our sources.

That's right, Kristen. For this episode, I got my information from the books. Trapped. The Story of Floyd Collins by Robert Murray and Roger Brucker. The Life and Death of Floyd Collins by Homer Collins. Collins and John Lairberger. The Kentucky Cave Wars by David Kim. And the article, the 1925 Cave Rescue that captivated the nation by Lucas Riley for the website Mental Floss.

Plus more. Please check the show notes for more information. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community

R slash old-timey podcast Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram At Old Timey Podcast You can also follow us individually on Instagram She is the beautiful Kristen Pitts-Keruso I go by Gaming Historian And until next time

To-Doooooo-Tata and Cheerio Goodbye Bye Bye! See ya See ya!