An Old Timey Podcast - 15: Anyone Seen Hitler’s Body? (Part 3)

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Reports of Adolf Hitler’s death filled newspapers around the globe, but was he *really* dead? Like, for real?? Misinformation from the Soviet Union left people all over the world fearing that Hitler might have escaped the bunker. Soon, British and American intelligence stepped in to conduct their own investigations. Over time, the truth emerged. (But Hitler didn’t, because he was super dead.) Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Daly-Groves, Luke. Hitler’s Death: The Case against Conspiracy. Oxford: Osprey Publishing, 2019. Joachimsthaler, Anton, and Helmut Bögler. The Last Days of Hitler: The Legends, the Evidence, the Truth. London, New York: Arms and Armour Press ; Distributed in the USA by Sterling Pub. Co., 1996. Petrova, Ada, and Peter Watson. The Death of Hitler: The Full Story with New Evidence from Secret Russian Archives. New York: Norton, 1995. Riaud, Xavier. “Dental Identifications of Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun.” Journal of Dental Problems and Solutions 1, no. 1 (October 2014): 6–10. Trevor-Roper, Hugh R. The Last Days of Hitler. Seventh edition. London: Pan Books, 1995. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye! You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And that had better be egg salad. Kristen Caruso. You know, you made egg salad the other day, and ooh, it was... I said, what is that effed up smell in my crib? And I said, don't worry, darling.

It's egg salad, and I just farted. And on this episode, we'll explore the investigations into Hitler's death. Death. I heard he didn't die. I heard he escaped that bunker and he's in St. Louis, munching on chili dogs. Outside the tasty freeze. You just do wait till that episode. You are going to love it. What do you mean that episode? Isn't that this episode, sir? No. Mistakes of Shame. Uh-oh.

Actually, no, not mistakes of shame. I thought we were going to do conspiracy theories this episode, but the history hose demanded that I talk about the investigations. So we're going to do the investigations in this episode, and then next week we'll do conspiracy theories. Norm, let me ask you something. If a bunch of hoes asked you to jump off a cliff, what would you do? I'm non-threatening. I probably would. But I'm also afraid of heights, so I'd say, well, are there any alternatives to me jumping off a cliff?

The alternative is you tell us about the investigations into Adolf Hitler's death. I'll do it. Mm-hmm. What? I believe you owe us a plug, a certain plug. Oh, are you doing another bit? This is another bit, isn't it? What are you talking about?

Yeah. You know you have to... I'm a real human person. It's not just bit, bit, bit, bit, bit. You know you have to do a plug, and you just sat there in silence. You are up to something, but okay, go ahead. Well, okay. The truth is, yes, I do have to do a plug.

I'm happy to do it. You know, it's not a problem for me at all. but I did want to bring up some bad news. And Norm, I don't want you to feel bad about this, but someone did reach out. He's very upset about your coverage of Hitler. Oh? He thinks you've made a number of errors and that you've been very mean to Hitler. I didn't really know how to handle it, to be honest with you.

Okay. So I said, well, would you like to come to the house and talk to Norm, defend yourself a bit? And he said, yeah. And so, if you don't mind, would you open that door? He's on the other side of the door. Yeah, I'm just going to let him come sit next to me right here. Okay. Everyone, hold your applause, obviously, because we're not going to applaud this man, but Adolf Hitler is here, okay?

No, we don't, we don't applaud. He's here because he's mad at Norman. Boo. And you know what he wants to do? What? He wants to tell people to not support our podcast. Really? Yes, yes.

Why Hitler? Why? It's the worst thing he's ever done. We don't know. Yeah, it's me, Hitler. I am alive and I hate these podcasts. I'm sorry to hear that Hitler. Yeah. So I am here to tell people not to join your Patreon. Oh, well, please don't do that. We need people to join our Patreon. Everyone, do not sign up at the $5 level.

Uh-huh. You will get a monthly bonus episode plus video of this repulsive podcast. It will also... You will also... You will also enter their terrible discord to chitty chat the day away. I am very old. That's why my accent is weird. Yeah, I guess so.

Don't you dare sign up at the $10 level? Because then you get all that other stuff. plus early ad-free episodes and video of these episodes plus a card and stickers with their stupid signatures. Do not go to www.patron.com such old-timey podcast to support these people. They are terrible and also I didn't fart too much in the bunker. That's a lie, Hitler and you know it.

That was Ava farting. That wasn't me. Also, I'm still alive. Yeah. This podcast is wrong. I love the show. Hunting Heat. Bye. Bye.

Yeah, there he goes. Wow. Just as quickly as he appeared, he's gone. That was really strange that Hitler showed up. Yeah, I'll say. He's got to be, he's like 125 years old. He looked terrible, don't you agree? He did look pretty bad. Uh-huh.

Smelled bad, too. Hey, we don't want him to come back, okay? You better just lay off the fart stuff. That seemed to be very offensive to him. I guess so. Okay, so was that the plug? Yeah, that was the plug? It's weird that Hitler came on the show to bash us, but he ended up actually doing a pretty good plug.

No, he said, don't join the Patreon. Yeah. But the history hoes don't like Adolf Hitler, so they're going to do the opposite. Oh! And they are going to join the Patreon. Wow. Brilliant. Reverse psychology.

Take that, Hitler. Go to hell. You want to know something kind of wild? What? He let me know before he came in here that he actually did literally eat carpet. No, he didn't. Yeah, he did. That was a real...

You know what? I don't even... I don't think that was Hitler. I have my suspicions that that wasn't Hitler at all. Well, the only way for people to know for sure is to sign up at the $10 level and watch the video of this episode. Yeah. And then they can see this giant pimple that's like right on my lip. Don't draw attention to it, Norm.

I have to. It is huge. People are going to wonder what the hell is that on his lip. Okay. I totally feel for you. I am getting neck pimples lately, which I have found out is hormonal shit. I know this is very exciting for the listeners. Personally, give me a chin pimple any day over one that's like right on my lip or on my neck.

Don't make it weird. Yeah. God or whoever dispenses pimples, probably Adolf Hitler's rotting corpse, I'm guessing. We mentioned this at the end of the last episode, but I wouldn't mind putting it at the top of this episode. We have a subreddit now. Yeah. Thank you, thank you. Someone started a subreddit for an old-timey podcast. Some loyal history ho went out of their way and started an old-timey podcast subreddit. We really appreciate it.

R-slash old-timey podcast. Yes, thank you. I was like so happy when I saw that. It brought me much joy that day. But something that does not bring me joy is when I make mistakes. Uh-oh. Mistakes of shame. What you got, Norm? Kristen, in the first two episodes of this Hitler series, I was pronouncing Hitler's girlfriend's name as Ava Braun. Unfortunately, that is technically incorrect. Her last name is pronounced brown, like the color.

Oh. Not Braun like the brawny sexy paper towel guy. That guy is sexy. Want him to wipe me up. Oh, my. You know, Mr. Clean's pretty hot, too. What's with all these hot cleaning dudes? Mr. Bubble.

Yeah. I love him to whirl around on me for a while. Anyway, get back to your mistakes of shame. I have one more mistake. Ava Brown's sister is actually named Gretel, not Greta. Wow. I think that was just a typo in my script, so I apologize. This concludes another exciting segment of mistakes of shame.

I hope you feel the appropriate amount of shame for messing up on these Nazis names. Yeah, just enough. Okay. Ready to learn about some death investigations? Yes. I'm, okay, I'm so excited that the history hose wanted four episodes on this. I am very interested. I did think this is kind of up.

Let's go to court fans' alleys. This is like, this is a true crime episode, basically. Okay, all right. Right? Well, if it's a true crime episode, you have to start it out the way all true crime episodes start. It was a dark and stormy night? No. They were the perfect couple.

They absolutely never had sex. He was off committing genocide. They saw each other occasionally. They met when she was 17 and he was in his 40s. In other words, they were the perfect couple. Until... Man, you have some experience with it. It's almost like you had a true crime podcast for six years.

It's almost like that. I know in the last episode I promised we would put on our tinfoil hats and we would dive into conspiracy theories. However, we got a lot of great feedback about those last two episodes. And the hoes have spoken. They demand to know about the investigation into Hitler's death. In fact, one of the history hos even called me. I'm going to play the recording.

You want answers? I think I'm entitled. You want answers. I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. Tom Cruise is a history ho? That was me and Tom yelling back and forth at each other. it when you two fight, I really do.

I know. It seems as though the history hoes love Hitler. Well, all right. I don't like the idea you're talking to all these hoes, Norm. Better slow it down. But seriously, thank you all so much for the kind words and feedback on the past two episodes. I really appreciate it. And so on today's episode, we will discuss the various investigations into Hitler's death. That way, when we talk next week about conspiracy theories, we will know everything. thing and we can laugh and point fingers at all the dumb-dums who think Hitler escaped in a submarine and went to Argentina or he opened a coffee shop in Amsterdam. Yes, that was an actual reported sighting of Hitler.

You're kidding me. He was running a coffee shop in Amsterdam. Well, but Norm, here's the thing. He obviously did escape. Otherwise, who was that who just came into our home and said our Patreon sucks? Hmm? Ask yourself that. Well, like I said, I'm suspecting that.

not have been Adolf Hitler. Okay. Kristen, I know you might be thinking, Norm, you're really sexy and you're really smart, but this topic doesn't sound very interesting at all. No, I am interested, but okay, I'll play along. Yeah. Yeah.

We all know Hitler killed himself, and then his body was burned in the Reich Chancellery Garden in Berlin. But it wasn't that simple. This is a story about politics. Oh. About deception. And how easily a conspiracy theory. can take hold.

But before we get into it, let's recap. Previously, on an old-timey podcast. My voice is way deeper on that than yours. Well, part of it is I like it so much that I feel like my voice goes up even higher. That's true. Because I get all excited. On April 16th, 1945, the Soviet Union launched their offensive on the German capital of Berlin. More than two million Russian troops moved to encircle the

the city. Adolf Hitler and his Nazi goons commanded the defense of the city from an underground bunker at the Reich Chancellery building, appropriately named the Führer Bunker. On April 20th, Hitler celebrated his 56th birthday. Yay! No, boo! At the party, his friends told him to get out of Berlin while he still could, but Hitler wouldn't commit. Many of his Nazi buddies took off to save themselves. It seemed as though Nazi Germany was doomed, but Hitler had a brilliant military plan. He ordered an army group north of Berlin to link up with an army group south of Berlin. It was a pincer move to surround the Russians and save the city.

But these armies only existed on paper. They lacked men, weapons, ammunition, equipment, and morale. When Hitler learned from his generals that the attack was not possible, he exploded with rage. He yelled that the army had deceived and betrayed him. Hitler was surrounded by nothing but lies, corruption, treason, and cowardice. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. It was at this moment that Hitler finally admitted that the war was over.

And he told his generals, I love that, Michael Scott. Some of Hitler's buddies tried to take advantage of the situation. The commander-in-chief of the German Air Force, Hermann Guring, wrote a letter to Hitler, kindly asking permission to take over Nazi Germany. Um, excuse me, could I please take over? Ew. That's actually what he sounded like.

Oh, wow. Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS, tried to negotiate with the Americans and British without Hitler's permission. Hitler was furious when he heard the news. Just more betrayal. Everybody betrayed me. I don't have a friend in the world. As the Russians drew closer to the chancellery, Hitler made the final

to end his life. It was quite a to-do list. Let's see. Figure out how I'm going to kill myself. Check. Poison my German Shepherd Dog Blondie. Check. Mary my longtime mistress. Eva Brown. Check. Cancel my credit cards. Check. Record my last will and testament. Check. Name my successors. Check. Oh. And blame the Jews for everything. Check. Before departing for hell, Hitler learned that his best friend, and former dictator of Italy, Benito Mussolini, had been killed. His body was strung up and pelted with stones. Hitler didn't want the same thing to happen to him, so he ordered that his body should be burned in the Reich Chancellor's Garden. Nothing should remain, he said. On April 30th, with the Russians only a block away, Hitler decided it was time. At around 3.30 p.m., he and Ava Brown went

into his study and sat on a sofa. Brown took a cyanide capsule and died instantly. Then Hitler shot himself with a pistol. Their bodies were carried out of the bunker to the chancellery garden. Guards poured gas over the bodies, then lit them on fire. In the early hours of May 1st, the new chancellor of Germany, Joseph Goebbels, had an idea. Maybe we could negotiate a surrender with the Russians. So the Nazis sent General Hans Krebs to talk with the Soviet general Vasili Chukov,

Nazi government officials wanted safe passage out of Berlin. In exchange, the Soviets could have the city. Let's just forget this happened. Vasili Chukov said, Hell no, no, no, hell to the no. And that was that. Does it take away when I sing along to the soundboard? No.

I love it. You can do no wrong, baby. Later that day, Joseph Goebbels and his wife Magda would murder their six children. before killing themselves. And now, the Hitler death investigations. Boy, you really went on an upswing there at the end right after the murder of children. Well done, Norm. Thank you.

Soviet disclaimer. This is a new disclaimer. Some of this stuff that we're going to talk about, it comes directly from the Soviet Union, which was known for misinformation. I have done my best to separate fact from fiction. Okay. And we're just supposed to believe you because you're wearing glasses? New glasses, by the way. They are new glasses to go with his new pimple. It matches.

So I want to pick up right after that failed surrender negotiation. It's the early hours of May 1st. During this meeting, Russian General Vasili Chukov learned some startling new information. Hitler and his wife, Eva Brown, had killed themselves in the bunker under the chancellery. Afterward, their bodies had been burned in the garden. Chukov was like, wait a minute, Hitler was married, and there's a bunker, and he's dead? Is it possible that the Russians wouldn't have found the bunker? Surely they would have eventually. They would have eventually. Okay. Because they knew where the chancellery was. Right. I'm just kind of amazed that they didn't know

that there was a bunker there. Yeah. At the time, Russian intelligence incorrectly believed Hitler had escaped Berlin. Soviet troops had seen planes leaving the government district in the past week. However, as we learned in the last episode, those planes were actually carrying some of Hitler's staff. Hitler stayed in Berlin. So General Chukov telephoned the boss man, the leader of the Soviet Union, Joseph Stalin. I'm going to quit Stalin and tell you all about him. Stalin's title was General Secretary of the Communist Party, but in reality he was a dictator and a brutal one.

He consolidated power, he oppressed his political enemies, and he killed millions of his own people. Future topic. Oh, boy. Chukov told Stalin the news, and Stalin was pissed. He said, quote, So the bastard has thrown in his hand, a shame that we could not take him alive. Where is Hitler's body? Sure.

Chukov replied, well, according to the Germans, it was burned in the Garden of the Reich chancellery. And Stalin was like, you sure about that? Later that day, at around 10.30 p.m., German radio officially announced to the public that Hitler had died, quote, fighting to the last breath. Well, not really. Okay. Kristen, here, tissues. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Those aren't necessary. I'm not sad at all. It looked like you were kind of tearing up there.

No, absolutely not. Okay. The following day on May 2nd, newspapers around the world printed the front page headline, Hitler dead. Yeah. But Joseph Stalin was skeptical. He thought this was all just a big cover-up. And because boss man Stalin was skeptical, so was the Russian media. Moscow radio called the announcement of Hitler's death a new fascist trick.

Oh. Stalin wouldn't believe him. Hitler was dead until he saw a body. Okay, now hang on. Hang on. I hate to be on Stalin's side here, but I would also want to see the body. Yeah. We want to make sure he's not going to open up a Starbucks franchise.

Yeah, an Amsterdam. Sure. That's all of our fears right there. Yeah. Well, and the other thing is Adolf Hitler is Joseph Stalin's enemy number one. Yeah. Yeah, he wants to see a body. Absolutely.

He wants to know he's dead. And so he called in a Soviet counterintelligence unit for help. Smearsh. Sorry. I'm sorry. I was thinking about Papp Smeirch. Smearsh was a portmanteau of Smeerts spionum, which is Russian for death to spies. Portmanteau?

Portmanteau. What's that? It's when you take two words and you combine them into one. I'm learning so much. Okay. I figured you would know some grammar stuff like that. I'm actually very stupid. Thank you very much. Wow.

Smearsh was created by Stalin himself, and their main job was to hunt down German spies and partisans in the Soviet Union. And now Stalin was giving Smirsch one very important job, find Hitler's body. On the morning of May 2nd, the German army in Berlin officially surrendered. Soviet troops, including the Smirsch unit, entered the Reich Chancellery, they cleared out all the rooms, and they surrounded it for safekeeping. The hunt for Adolf Hitler's body had officially begun. I've got a question. Does Smirsch sound less stupid in Russian, you think? Yeah.

Okay. Probably. Well... It would have to, because if Smirsch came after me, I'd be like, okay, guys. In the Chancellery Garden, smirsch uncovered a lot of bodies, up to 160 bodies. Oh, good grief. Well, remember, Berlin had been an active war zone. Yeah, okay.

The garden was constantly being shelled by artillery and bombs. Many people died in the chancellery garden, and they were buried in shallow graves. Because Hitler didn't want to see dead bodies when he walked his dog. Oh, wow. Okay, yeah, sure. Two of the bodies that Smirsch found were not buried. They were charred, laying near the entrance of the bunker, and they were still recognizable. It was the former propaganda minister and chancellor for a day, Joseph Goebbels. and his wife Magda Gerbils.

The Nazis didn't stick around long enough to ensure that Gerbils was completely burnt up. His face was still recognizable. His leg had a brace, which he wore due to a disability. Smirsch also searched the bunker, and there they found Gerbil's six children laying dead in their beds. They also found General Hans Crabes.

He had shot himself after those failed negotiations. And they examined Hitler's study, where he supposedly, died with Ava Brown. They saw bloodstains on the couch and the floor. Meanwhile, Soviet troops had arrested several members of Hitler's staff who had tried to flee Berlin. On May 3rd, Smirsch brought a few of them to the chancellory garden to identify some of the bodies they had found, and the prisoners identified Joseph Goebbels, Magda Gerbils, their six children, General Hans Crabes. But there was still no sign of Adolf Hitler or Ava Brown.

Mm-hmm. When the prisoners were interrogated, they all gave the same general story. Hitler and Brown had killed themselves and were burned in the chancellery garden. So where were the bodies? Joseph Stalin was demanding answers, and you didn't want to piss off Stalin. Sure. Smirsch was under great pressure to present some evidence. The next day, on May 4th,

Smirsch had found Hitler's body. Woo! Yeah! There were even photographs. I'm not going to show the picture in the video, $10 tier, by the way, because it is a corpse, but I do want to show you, Kristen. If you're okay with that. Yeah, sure. Tell me what you think.

So that looks like dead Hitler with a bullet hole in the middle of his forehead. He looks terrible, but then again, he has been killed and burned, so. So I'll describe it. It's a middle-aged man, dark hair. toothbrush mustache, dark suit, looks like a bullet wound in the middle of the forehead. But right away, this body set off red flags. Too skinny? No.

Oh, okay. I'm not going to say anymore. One, all the witnesses so far claimed that Hitler's body was burned. This body was completely intact. Two, according to the Soviets, the man had on mended socks, meaning they were worn and had patches. Oh, yeah. It's not likely Durfürer would have on clothing in such poor condition. He was a snappy dresser. In fact, Hitler was a member of Das Norty Club.

Shut up. You know, they've got a sale going on right now. I mean, we don't have to tell Hitler. It's the 9-99 sale. Stop. 9% off socks, 9% off underwear, 9% off camis. You got to have a good cami under your Nazi uniform. Otherwise, it chafes.

Number three. This person had been shot through the middle of their forehead, which would indicate that someone else killed him. Oh, yeah. Witnesses in the bunker said that Hitler killed himself. You know what? I'm feeling like a real – I'm rusty on my true crime stuff. I should have caught a lot of this. I thought you would immediately would have said, well, he's not burned.

Well, you know, I didn't know if maybe they started from the bottom and then worked their way up. I don't know. Are you even listening to this story? Here's the thing. I'm just thinking it would be most natural for people to be like, oh, okay, Hitler. Yeah, what do you want me to do with your body afterward? Sure, absolutely. I'll do that.

And then he kills himself. And then you're like, bye, I'm going to go try to run a coffee shop in Amsterdam. I'm not going to like take extra time with the Russians a block away. Kristen, your insight is incredible and we will come back to that very thought later on. Thank you. But number four, this is something you wouldn't have noticed from the photo I showed you, but in several other photographs, that body was laying next to a toppled statue of a Nazi eagle. It looked super staged.

Oh, okay. Gosh, so they just took some random guy with that terrible mustache and then they killed him and... Possibly. Oh. Smirsch brought back a few Nazi prisoners to the chancellery and asked them to. identify this body and they all said, yeah, that's not Hitler. Right. A Soviet diplomat who had frequently met Hitler was also brought in to identify the body.

And he immediately was like, are you kidding me? No, that is not Hitler. So who was this guy? It's totally possible that Smirsch just found some dead guy who kind of looked like Hitler and claimed it was him to satisfy Joseph Stalin. Wow. It couldn't have been too hard. The toothbrush mustache was very popular in Germany at the time.

You just go down to your local barbershop and say, give me the Hitler. Some people claimed that this was actually a body double of Hitler. That's one of the big conspiracy theories. The Nazis had killed the double and planted his body in the chancellory garden, while Hitler made his escape. To be clear, Kristen. What?

I see your wheels turning in your head like, A body double, you say. Oh, I'm so sorry that I'm thinking while you're speaking. To be clear, there has never been a shred of evidence that Hitler used body doubles. When one of Hitler's secretaries, Johanna Wolfe, was asked about the idea of a body double, she said it was ridiculous and added, The Fuhr would have never tolerated it. Why not?

He was an egomaniac. There was no way he was going to be walking around with a body double. in his own crib. I, okay, you're not going to like my skepticism here. I'll tell you that. Okay. I think lots of egotomaniacs use body doubles for safety reasons. Everybody knows you're in a specific building, so I have my sexy lookalike go out the front door.

Meanwhile, I'm high-tailing it out the back. Adolf Hitler was like the Highlander. There can be only one, not even imitations, okay? The Highlander. You never seen The Highlander? No. That's a vehicle. The Toyota Highlander?

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Let me tell you, there's more than one Toyota Highlander out there, I guarantee it. Not a single witness from the bunker claimed that Hitler had a body double. Also, I doubt a person working as a body double would agree to be killed so Hitler could leave. Well, I mean, again, you're going to hate my skepticism. Could have been murdered. I know what you're saying. They could have just murdered them.

That is not what I'm saying, but also, yes, you don't have to consider. to be murdered by a Nazi, I have to tell you. They don't always wait for that consent. But what about fuckface and his fuckface wife who murdered their own children because they just love the future? I don't think it's that out of line that some other idiot would also be like, yes, what a wonderful way to go. Okay, well, speaking of fuckface and their children, do you really think Ava Brown,

Joseph Goebbels, Magda Gerbils would commit suicide if you, if they had killed a double while Hitler escaped. Hell no. They would have said, Hitler, we're coming with you. Yeah, okay. Sure. Unless. Oh, my God.

If you can find me any evidence that Hitler had a body double, bring it into an old-timey podcast studio. I know how these conspiracy theories work. I support it wholeheartedly. No, I really don't. But all it takes is just an idea, just questions, just asking questions. Yeah, sure.

Oh, do I have a responsibility to ask the right questions? No, no. I'm only asking the Reich questions. Ooh, wow. Clever. Thank you. Very good. Okay, well, it was pretty clear that this body was not Hitler.

So Smirsch kept digging. They shoveled dirt into mesh wire. Oh, a literal digging. All right. Yeah, they dug. Wasn't Hitler in the easy bake oven thing? The easy bake oven? Oh, I know.

Not a real easy bake oven. make of him, but didn't they throw him and Ava in some... No. No? No. And then they... Oh, okay. No.

All right. Never mind. He was in open air. They dumped him into the chancellor of garden, poured gas over their bodies, and lit them on fire. Well, how did they not see that? Interesting. Part of the mystery. Well, what the fuck?

They're right there. I know there are other bodies to, you know... You know, you sound like one of the smir-sh investigators. Well, what the fuck? Where's Hitler? If he's right there? What's happening? Well, they were digging and they took the dirt and they sifted it through mesh wire, you know, like they're having fun on the beach.

Why? Why are they digging? They're looking for evidence. But there are literal bodies on top of the ground that they've not looked at. Correct? Don't just give me that face. Well, okay, so first of all, when I say they uncovered 160 bodies, that was over a period of many, months. At this present moment, they have found Joseph Goebbels, Magda Gerbils, the six kids, Hans Crabes, and whoever the fuck this guy was that looked like Hitler. A lot of those bodies were

buried in shallow graves, but they got to dig for him. Right, but you're telling me that Hitler and Ava are just right on top of the ground, just waiting to... They're not there. They don't see them. All right. Okay. Anyway, I'm trying to get through this sentence. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. They were digging, they shoveled dirt into mesh wire, sifted through it, like they're having fun on the beach, looking for evidence. In the process, they uncovered a multitude of items, clothing, papers, jewelry. But on May 5, 1945, they found some bodies. It was Hitler's dog, Blondie, and two badly charred bodies of a man and a woman. They were uncovered near the bunker and.

entrance. Could this be Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown? Yeah, probably. There was only one way to find out. The remains were packed into ammo crates and sent off to Soviet pathologists for examination. Soviet disclaimer, the autopsies that Smirsch performed are highly questionable. So please keep that in mind as I tell you this information. Well, I was going to say even someone who wasn't trying to set out to deceive people. And this time, like, they don't have DNA testing.

There's no DNA testing. Even if their heart's in the right place, it's still a crap shoot. But anyway, continue. Modern pathologists have examined these autopsy reports and said they're a farce. One pathologist said, any one of my assistants would have done better. Oh, rude to your assistance, okay, fine. Kristen, you might agree after you hear about these autopsies. Okay, let's go to court fans.

I bet you're excited. Woo! Autopsies! All let's go to court fans. Just fun fact, anytime autopsies are mentioned, they're such sick fucks. They just go, yay! Let's look at the female corpse first. It was a little shorter than Ava Brown, about five inches shorter.

Well, that's a lot shorter. But the corpse shrunk when it was on fire. That would explain it, right? Well, bone, your skeleton doesn't shrink from fire, right? No. Okay. The woman was between 30 and 40 years old. Ava Brown was 33.

The body was badly burnt. The top half of the skull was mostly missing. There were no signs of gunshot wounds. In the mouth, pathologists found a lower jaw bridge made of gold and remnants of a gold filling. They were loose in the mouth. They found remnants of a cyanide capsule crushed in the mouth. So far so good, this kind of matches up with Ava Brown. Hold on. Hold on.

She was set on fire, and yet they're still able to find remnants of a cyanide capsule? Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, a few things didn't really make sense, as you seem to be finding Kristen. Mm-hmm. They found shrapnel wounds in Brown's chest. Now, it's totally possible their bodies were hit by artillery after they were already dead. They were laying out in the open in the Chancellery Garden.

But they noted there was hemorrhaging around the wounds. which would mean that person was alive when they were hit with shrapnel. If Ava Brown killed herself with poison, how could this be? Didn't make sense. It couldn't be. The pathologist also claimed that Brown smelled of bitter almonds, which is a telltale sign of poisoning. But if her body was burned, the extreme heat would have evaporated any smells of poison. How could a body that had been burned and buried for four days still smell like bitter almonds? Despite these oddities, Smearsch ruled the cause of death was cyanide poisoning.

Bullshit, my dude. Let's look at the male corpse now. Okay. It was also shorter. By how much? Four inches. That's so much shorter. So much shorter.

The body had no more skin, just charred muscle. the pathologist reported they found only one testicle. Oh gosh, this poor fella. The left foot was missing. What? What? The majority of the skull was intact, but some sections of the cranium were missing. Dude shot himself in the head and everything's pretty much intact.

Well, parts of the cranium are missing. Okay. Inside the mouth, the pathologist noted a gold bridge for the lower jaw consisting of 15 teeth and a gold bridge for the upper jaw with nine teeth. Fun fact, Hitler had terrible dental health, and his breath was reportedly horrible. Oh, my God, this dude, he had it coming out both ends, didn't he? He did have it coming out both ends.

Okay, you ready for some red flags? You're already seeing red flags. Well, yeah, but also, how are you the evil dictator, but you don't have a dentist? He had a dentist. Clearly he didn't. He did. Was the dentist terrible at his job?

No, he was making them these bridges. Well, right, but you also got to be like, hey, we've got this thing called flossing, and also there's this thing called mouthwash. And let me show you mine tongue scraper, because that will help you out. That dentist was like, have you been flossing Adolf? And Adolf was like, oh, yeah, totally, I floss. And then the dentist said, why must you feel? my office with lies. That's from the Simpsons.

Okay, great. Seems like something Hitler's dentist would say, though. I don't think anyone would talk back to Hitler. Well, exactly. Which is probably why he had such terrible breath. He wouldn't even ask if he flossed. I always get real excited when I go to the dentist and they're like, oh, everything looks great.

I'm always very proud of myself. Okay, here are some red flags. There were, quote, no visible signs of severe lethal injuries. Which goes against pretty much every witness statement that Hitler shot himself. Unlike Ava Brown, Hitler's corpse had no shrapnel wounds, which is strange since they were laying next to each other. Yep. Surely he would have been hit with some shrapnel too. They found a broken cyanide capsule in his mouth, but made no comment that he smelled like bitter almonds.

Smirsch ruled the cause of death as cyanide poisoning. This is ridiculous. Okay, well, my next line was, Kristen, what are your thoughts? Sounds like it just gave them to me. Let me guess. Blondie was now a poodle. Okay, so the pathologist determined how these people died, but they needed to identify if it was actually Ava Brown and Adolf Hitler. Luckily, they had a great way to do that.

The dental work. Okay. They had bridges. They had teeth. Yeah, but the ones in Ava are really loose, so they just threw those in there after the fact. right? Calm down. I'm calm.

You little conspiracy theorist. My little conspiracy theorist. In the male corpse, they had bridges and teeth. In the female corpse, they had a bridge and a filling. So all they had to do was match it up with dental records or medical records, and bam, they could confirm the identification. Possibly. On May 9, 1945, Smirsch visited the dental office of Dr. Hugo Blaske. Hitler's dentist.

Wow, so he does exist. But Blaschka was gone. The Americans had captured him at Hitler's mountain retreat in Ober Salzburg. The dental records were also gone. Blashe took those with him. Oh, wow. Luckily, Smirsch was able to track down Blaschka's dental assistant, Kata Hoizerman. She was arrested and taken in for questioning.

Smirsch showed Hoysermann the dental bridges and fillings, and she immediately recognized them as belonging to Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown, quote, clearly and unequivocally. You're all in your eyes. Well, okay. Were these super unique? Oh, yeah. Well, one, they're made of gold. Okay, but were all the top Nazis getting the gold shit?

I don't know. Well, that would be interesting to know, wouldn't it? Because if all the top Nazis are going to this dentist and they're all getting this gold shit, shit. How... Right, but he had a bridge made specifically for his mouth. And so, yeah, it probably was very unique looking. Well, of course it was very unique looking, but so unique that the assistant remembers exactly what Hitler's looks like and can tell it apart from other people's? She operated on Hitler many, many times. She was the dental assistant. Okay.

Hoysermann also pointed out signs of wear on Hitler's upper bridge. She said, yeah, we shortened this back in 1944, and there is the mark where we shortened it. Oh, okay. I'm pretty impressed now. All right. And finally, she provided a sketch of Hitler's teeth from memory. You know how dentists, like, count 35, 34? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so that's what she did. She, like, drew up a little diagram and marked which teeth were missing. I think by the end of his life, Hitler had, like, four teeth left. My God. Yeah. A few days later, Smearsch tracked down Dr. Blaschka's dental technician, Fritz Ekmann. He was the one who created the bridges for both Hitler and Brown. Ectmann identified them both and also provided sketches of their teeth from memory.

Smears investigated Hoysermann and Ektmann independently and multiple times. Their testimony was consistent and accurate. Okay. With this, the Soviets could confidently say that the bodies they had found were of Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown. And they were dead. Case closed. No. Okay, should we take questions from the Discord?

No, we should not. Because you have questions from me. Not so fast, Kristen. Kato Hoysermann and Fritz Ekmond both noted something odd. When Smirsch presented the evidence, there was no skull. Mm-hmm. The teeth and bridges and fillings were in a small box. Yeah.

The Soviets claimed they had the skulls. Any other criminal investigation would have left the skulls intact, right? Why was the dental work removed from the skulls? Mm-hmm. So that was weird. Yeah. But there were other problems with the autopsy. One, when it came to Joseph Goebbels, Magda Gerbils, the six children, General Hans Crabes,

and even Blondie the dog, the Soviets took many photos of the bodies, both in the garden and during the autopsy. With Hitler and Brown, there is one photo from the Chancellery Garden and it looks like piles of mush packed into ammo crates. You can't even tell what it is. Yeah.

There are no photos of charred bodies, no photos of skulls, nothing. Two, with all the other autopsies, including the damn dog, the pathologist dissected the organs and ran toxicology reports to confirm cyanide poisoning. Right.

With Hitler and Brown, they did not dissect the organs. How can you determine the cause of death is by cyanide without dissecting the organs? I don't know. Yeah. That's the way I always do it.

That's right. We did it last weekend. That little squirrel we found in the yard. I said, I suspect foul play. And you said, I'm not sure. I said, well, let's cut it open. Get to the bottom of this.

Man, imagine being a pathologist, and you get little squirrel guts mailed to you. Can you run a toxicology report? I heard him fighting with another squirrel, and I'm just not so sure about what happened. They said he choked on a nut, but I just don't know. This bit is worn out. It's welcome. Wow.

All of a sudden, you say choked on a nut and Norm's ready to change the conversation. Okay. Continue. All right. Number three. With all the other bodies, Smirsch brought in witnesses to identify the corpses. Yeah. No one was shown Hitler and Braun's alleged corpses for identification.

Yeah, because these guys are full of Smirsch. Nazi prisoners would later state that during their interrogations from the Soviets, they were repeatedly told they would be shown the bodies for identification. Oh, sure. Never saw them. Okay. So Kristen, I would like to know your opinion, but I think I know what it is. Did the Soviets actually find Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown's bodies? I think it's very possible they found their dental stuff, but no, they didn't find the bodies.

I agree. I believe those bodies were not Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown. But we'll never know more on that later. However, the Soviets, I believe 100% did find their teeth. And that proved conclusively Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown were dead. So did they just find, well, you're not going to tell me because you're being a sneaky little snake. Story's not over, baby. So they just found totally burned up charred bodies.

The only thing left is the teeth? Is that how that would even work necessarily? Could have been somebody else's bodies. With the same dental work? Who says they didn't just throw that dental work in there? What do you mean? Who's to say? they didn't find these bodies and claim the dental work came from those bodies.

They had... Well, that's exactly what they did. Yeah, they had no... That's exactly what they did. They had no skull. If it came from those bodies, the dental work would have still been in the skull. But there was no skull. They've never shown a skull.

Okay, keep going, keep going. Okay. Smears wrapped up its investigation, but it was kept secret. Well, yeah, because it's stupid. They don't want anyone to know how stupid their investigation is. You need to work for the FBI. CIA. Yeah, that's just what they want.

They want someone with ADHD who can't stick to a task. That's right. Kristen, you got that Hitler file done yet? No, I got bored and I decided I wanted some iced tea. And then I said, well, what I also want is iced coffee. And then I wanted a snack. So here I am with this cheese stick. I'll share it with you.

Also, I found a dead squirrel my yard. I'm trying to figure out how it died. privately Russian officers informed British and American intelligence that they had interrogated multiple German prisoners from the bunker who testified that Hitler killed himself. Sure. Also said they had found a body. And it was, quote, most assuredly attributable to Hitler, thanks to dental identification. The Western allies were very happy to hear this because the press was getting a little out of hand with the Hitler death stories.

They were asking a lot of questions. It was really annoying. Well, they weren't just asking questions. For the past two weeks, Hitler had died in more ways than any man in history. Okay. Would you like to hear some of the ways Hitler has died? Oh, my God. According to these...

Choked on a hot dog stepping out of the shower also fell. Hitler died defending the chancellery until his last breath. Oh, the last thing he did. Okay. Hitler died from a cerebral hemorrhage. Okay. Hitler was pancaked by a dump truck. I made that one up.

I should have played a game, which one is made up. Hitler was walking down the steps of the chancellery when he was hit by an artillery shell. That one is so funny to me. Just bad luck, bad timing. I just said walking alone down the steps and then exploding. Yeah, I mean, I like that I didn't see that coming. I thought we were going to have an oopsie-dazy fall. But no, oopsie-dazy shrapnel.

Hitler was actually killed last year in that July 20th plot, and the Nazis were using a body double. Hitler was shot out of a cannon into a brick wall. Hitler was still alive in the bunker when the Soviets stormed it with flamethrowers and they lit his ass up. Hitler was poisoned by his doctor. That one stuck around for quite a while, actually. Hitler shot himself to death. Dysentery. Hitler was murdered by the SS under orders from Himmler.

Oh, boy. Everyone betrays me. Joseph Stalin was still not convinced that Hitler was dead. Even though Hitler's teeth had been identified, the autopsy just didn't make sense to Stalin. No, it makes sense to no one. He suspected that the Nazis had committed forensic fraud. Well, it sounds like your smear tactic guys are just afraid to give you.

you bad news, so they're hoping you're really stupid. Interesting. That's what it sounds like to me. On May 26, 1945, Stalin was in a meeting with Harry Hopkins. He was a top foreign advisor for the United States. That is the cutest little name. Harry Hopkins. He was actually a bunny rabbit in a suit.

But not a suit. It was just a kind of a colorful vest and a bokeye. He carried his papers in a basket. Why doesn't anyone take me seriously? Stalin, why do you always laugh at me when I hop in the room? In the meeting, Stalin told Hopkins that he believed Hitler was not dead and that he was hiding. Stalin said, quote, the whole thing is curious. All this talk about burial and disposals appear very doubtful to me.

Yeah. Stalin suggested that perhaps Hitler had escaped to Japan in a submarine, or maybe to Argentina. Well, are we just naming countries now? No. Japan was an ally of Nazi Germany. And they were actually still at war. Japan had not surrendered yet. Argentina had a big German population, and they suspected other Nazis had been fleeing

to Argentina. Spain was run by a fascist dictator named Francisco Franco, ally to Adolf Hitler. Mm-hmm. So there are reasons. So you have Russian officials telling British and American intelligence one thing. They're saying, yeah, We found a body. We think it's Hitler. Dental identification. And then Joseph Stalin is telling top U.S. diplomats other things. So, I mean, that is weird. Mixed signals. That is super weird. When the Allies pressed the Russians to make an announcement about their investigations, they said they were waiting until there was not a single shred of doubt that Hitler was dead.

Well, what exactly were they waiting for then? Was there more evidence that they were hoping to get? Well, don't worry. On June 9, 1945, the Soviet Union finally held an official press conference with news about Hitler's death. They said, quote, Adolf Hitler's present whereabouts are a mystery. We have not found a corpse, which could be Hitler's, and I am not able to make a positive statement about his fate or where he could at the moment be. What? What the hell is happening? He may have flown out of Berlin at the last moment. Based on personal and official information, we can say that Hitler had the chance to get away with his bride. Hitler could have flown out at the very last moment. They did not mention the interrogations.

They did not mention their searches in the chancellery garden. They did not mention that they had found the teeth. They had every piece of evidence available to them pointing to the fact that Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown had killed themselves in the bunker and were burned in the Chancellor's Garden. and they ignored all of it. I must say, if the Soviets set out to confuse Americans, I tip my hat to them because this American is mightily confused. See why I had to give a Soviet disclaimer? Yes.

By the way, I can't believe you weren't going to do an episode on all this. Yeah, I didn't know people would find it interesting. Good grief. Get confidence, stupid. Am I right? You're right. Yes. When reporters asked where Hitler could be hiding, the Soviets responded that he was probably in Spain and that, quote, it is up to the American and British forces to find him.

Oh, okay. This was obviously— I wash my hands of this. Yeah. This was very confusing to British and American intelligence. Yeah. Why the fuck would the Soviets claim Hitler was still alive? The Western allies were very concerned about the effects of this.

Not only would conspiracy theories start to pop up, but this could embolden neo-Nazis to continue fighting with the hope that D'Urfuerr was still alive. And sure enough, that happened. The American FBI and British intelligence started getting reports from all over the world about Hitler sightings. More on those in the next episode. There was also violence. The British reported that Nazi guerrilla fighters were stringing wire across roads, cutting the heads off of motorcycle messengers.

Jesus Christ. Yeah. I don't know why I'm so surprised that the Nazis are terrible. I can't believe they would do such a thing. You're telling me the Nazis did this? My God. A radio broadcast from a neo-Nazi movement claimed, We are ready.

Hitler is with us. Well, of course they said that. They were known as the werewolves. It was pretty obvious that Joseph Stalin was behind all this chaos. To this day, we still do not know why he did this. But we have a few possible reasons. Okay, let's hear him. Number one, Joseph Stalin believed Hitler was still alive.

Simple. Sure, sure. Number two, territorial claims. If Stalin claimed Hitler was alive, he could strengthen his claims to territory in Germany. We have to stay in these occupied areas to keep people safe. Because Hitler's still out there. Yeah.

Okay. Number three. Cold War politics. Stalin wanted to associate the West with Nazis. It's why he suggested Hitler was hiding in Spain or Argentina. And then the Americans and the British had to find him. Yeah. Sounds like someone's struggling for power.

Number four. Stalin was unsatisfied with the Smearsh investigation, and he didn't want people to see it or know about it, and by claiming Hitler was alive, it would save him from embarrassment. I think it's a valid argument, because if they had announced, yeah, we found his body, here's the teeth, obviously people are going to ask, well, how did you find this? What happened? So they're going to ask questions about this smirsch investigation. I think Stalin was a embarrassed by it. He wants to be known as the most powerful country in the world. Yeah. The best country in the world. He's the most powerful leader in the world. And he has to show these bullshit autopsies and how they found some dude and dressed him up as Hitler and claimed it was him. Okay, but if you're not playing by any rules, make up better shit. Plant better evidence. No, no. We still don't know to this day why he did it. I have a theory. What's your theory? Well, what's your theory? Well,

Once World War II is all settled, then Russia becomes bad guy again, right? We've got America coming after Russia. We've got, you know, other countries kind of teaming up to go after Russia, right? It's already happening. Right. But if everything with Germany is settled, then it goes into overdrive potentially, right? Sure. You're saying that Stalin needed Hitler.

Right. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. We see this all the time in Big Brother Norm. Sometimes if you're a Big Buff Alpha male, you want to keep the other Big Buff Alpha male in the house for longer. So there's a bigger target for the house to focus on. See, this all comes back to Big Brother on CBS right now. Everything can relate to Big Brother in some way.

Yes, I am one of the 12 people who still watch that show. That is 100% valid and has actually been mentioned as a possible reason. He wanted to maintain that alliance. Everyone, I'm sorry for being so smart. You are a very smart history ho. Thank you. Yeah. Very good, Kristen.

Yes, Joseph Stalin maybe in a way needed Hitler to be alive. Yeah, it helps. Yeah. The enemy has not been defeated. Keep looking there. Over here. And that's part of that territorial claim that I just mentioned. Sure.

Yeah, we got to stay here because Hitler's still out there. So we're going to occupy this territory. Okay. Stalin maybe being embarrassed by the Smyrish investigation. Let's talk about that. Yeah. It was not a great investigation. Oh, it was terrible.

The Russians were not treating the chancellery area like a crime scene. Troops routinely bribed guards with cigarettes or alcohol to go inside the bunker and take souvenirs. Oh. When the Soviets allowed British and American intelligence to check out the bunker, they could not believe the condition of the bunker. The generators had been shut off. There was no longer power in the bunker. That also meant that the water pumps weren't running. The bunker was starting to fill with groundwater.

Oh, no. Mold was forming. It looked like the rooms had been ransacked. There were papers and documents everywhere, still in the bunker. Holy shit. One British officer found Hitler's engagement diary. Just sitting there in the bunker. The Russians hadn't even taken it.

Engagement diary. It's basically like I have a meeting today. Oh. That's way less romantic than I thought it would be. Yeah, I have a date with Eva tonight. Oh, she's going to come down to the stinky bunker. I will show her my one ball. We're going to go to Wienersnitzel.

My favorite. You ever been to Wiener Schnitzel? No, I don't think I have. It's like a hot dog chain. No, that's not a thing that exists anymore. Google Wiener Schnitzel. I won't. I have parental guards on my computer.

Is that a real thing? Like in malls? Like, can you go to the mall? Yeah, wienershnezzle, premium hot dogs. Founded in 1961. The last time I was in Texas, I saw quite a few wiener schnitzels. Don't brag. Okay, sorry.

When was the last time you ate at a wiener schnitzel? Oh, a couple years ago. In Texas, actually. Yeah, it was fine. What did you get? I think a hot dog with chili, I don't know. Okay, fine. It's hot dogs.

No, I understand. I only ask because sometimes. you will go to a place like a Wiener Schnitzel and be like, you know what I want to try today, your club sandwich. I'd like to try the fillet of fish at Wiener Schnitzel. So yeah, the bunker, it did not feel like a crime scene. It sounds like people were coming in and out of there all the time. Bunker was in a terrible state.

And then you have the sketchy autopsies. Maybe in the excitement of victory over Nazi Germany, smear hastily performing. the autopsies, and then they just reported to Stalin whatever he wanted to hear. Hitler's dead. He killed himself, but he didn't shoot himself like an honorable soldier. He actually poisoned himself like a little coward. Oh, I see. Okay. The Americans and the British tried repeatedly to work with the Soviet Union on this investigation. When the British asked to speak with some of the German prisoners from the Fierre bunker, the Soviets refused. The German prisoners were taken to Moscow and locked away.

Oh. Kato Hoizermann and Fritz Ekmond, the dental workers who positively IDed the teeth and bridgework, they were arrested and charged with regulation for rendering support to a bourgeois government. Yeah. That's quite the charge. It was a bullshit charge. When the Americans asked to see the skulls. Yeah.

Because they had x-ray photos. of Hitler's skull. How did we have that? Dr. Morel was arrested by the Americans. He had x-rays of Hitler's skull. Just on his person? Well, no, they searched his house. I like to think that he kept a wallet.

Yeah, it's got a picture of his wife, his kids, and then Hitler's skull. And the Americans had also arrested Hugo Blashekha, Hitler's dentist. Okay. So the Americans asked to see that skull. Soviets were silent. So you see this weird power struggle, right? This is... This is so interesting.

The Americans had prisoners, Soviets had prisoners, but it was like they were competing. This shit happens. It's so funny to me. This shit happens all the time, like in America with like crime scene jurisdiction. Like if there's a serial killer and oh, he's over here and now he's in this other county. And I'm not trying to give tips to people, but it's like, man, it's either. easier to get away with shit than it should be because different police departments don't want to talk to the other police department. And well, this is my case. And I want to be the one to solve it. Or, you know, I don't want to deal with this.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. And we're seeing this on a much bigger scale here. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Where you also have language barriers and cultural barriers. Some people can't even say barriers. That's how bad it's getting. The Russians have something called smirsch. Americans are like, what the fuck smirsch? I'll take one of my bagel, please. Exactly. I almost wrote that joke. The alliance that won the war and defeated fascism was slowly coming apart.

We see this in Big Brother, too. You get a certain way into the game, and eventually you've got to turn on each other. It's so great how we can relate history to Big Brother. This is how Kristen can understand the past. Think about it in terms of Big Brother. fresh hoes out there. I know it's very stupid and embarrassing that I watch Big Brother and Survivor. It happened to me in the pandemic, okay? I was weak and I started watching these stupid reality TV shows and I have not stopped and I won't stop. I have to make a confession. These are my

confessions. Okay. I think Big Brother is a good show. Shut up. You do not. No, I have been very entertained watching it with you. You have? I thought you have just tolerated it. and been very polite to me by asking questions. Here's a thing. I would never go out of my way to sit down and watch Big Brother. Sure. Okay, I'm not going to turn on the TV, navigate to Big Brother and watch it. But if it's on, I think it's very entertaining.

All right. Survivor I'm not super into. Shut your face. Well, they have gotten more family-friendly in recent years, and we all hate that. But, you know, what are we going to do? In September of 1945, the Soviet Union threw out a new accent. The British are hiding Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown in their occupation zone in Germany. Oh, that is rude.

And that is so rude. And British officials were like, Bitch, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. You shut the fuck up with your weakness. Oh my God. Is that I Love New York? Yep.

Tiffany. Well, I think it might be flavor of love, but yeah. Well, that show is always I love. I love New York. Anytime New York is on the program, it's named after her. One of my celebrity crushes, New York. I know, I know that if you ever actually met her in real life, it'd lose my mind. It'd be over. I just have to, you know. Yeah, Kristen, we had a good run, but I'm with New York now. And she's, you know what? I think, I can picture her being kind of charmed by you. She would have some. Not if she saw this pimple on my lip. She would have some really nasty but funny things to say about it, and it'd be so witty that you'd be like, you know what, I like it. It's okay. Go ahead. Tell me more about my lip pimple. Yeah, degrade me. Stomp on me all night.

Okay. British intelligence decided that the Soviets were not going to be of any help anymore. So they were going to launch their own investigation into the death of Adolf Hitler. Well, you've waited a while, haven't you boys? It would silence conspiracy theory chatter, demotivate neo-Nazis, and disprove these Soviet accusations. Well, only if you... I mean, aren't they kind of too late to do that? No.

Okay. As you'll see. All right. They also thought it would be of, quote, historical interest, which I like. And they are right, because now this story is being told on an old-timey podcast. That's right. A very famous history podcast that has more than 900 ratings. We were ranked 72nd in the history podcast last week.

How about it, folks? And you know who you're going to call when you need something done that's of historical interest? Librarian. You call a historian. Oh, very good. Kristen, they say historians make the best detectives and the best lovers. I've never heard that. before.

Really? Uh-huh. You hear it all the time. You just mumble it under your breath all the time. I'm going to psych myself up. Mm-hmm. British intelligence assigned Oxford-trained historian Hugh Trevor Roper to write a report on the death of Adolf Hitler.

Okay. Trevor Roper was a highly skilled British intelligence officer. He spoke German. He had broken German ciphers during the war. Oh, shit. All right. He was an expert on German intelligence. and Nazi ideology, and he had interrogated many Nazis.

And he was obviously a great lover, but that's not what we're here to discuss. Great in bed. His superiors described him as a, quote, first-rate chap. Oh! Which is British for this guy fucking rocks. American intelligence was happy to help. They provided Trevor Roper access to interrogate any of their German prisoners. And with their powers combined, the Western Allies had a treasured.

trove of documents, letters, memos, radio messages, and more. Trevor Roper also got access to the Furer Bunker, where he sketched out maps of the interior, he collected more evidence, but the hardest part was finding witnesses who were in the Fierre Bunker when Hitler died, because most of them were in Soviet captivity. But through his research, Trevor Roper created a list of everybody reported to be in the Fierre Bunker during those final 10 days, and he just tried to find as many people as he possibly could. And he did find a few of them.

He found Carl Dernitz, who was president of Germany for like three weeks. Okay. Remember Hitler's successor? Who could forget him? Hitler's architect, Albert Speer, the good Nazi. Nah. Hannah Reich, the famous woman test pilot, who was also a crazy-ass Nazi. Yeah.

And he also found several of Hitler's top generals who, you know, had completely betrayed Hitler in his final days. Oh, it's just so upsetting. But Hugh Trevor Roper also wanted to talk to lower-ranking people, too. He said, quote, guards and typists were as likely to prove good witnesses as politicians and generals. Probably better, honestly. Yeah. He thought so, too. Mm-hmm.

He found quite a few secretaries, SS guards. And he even found Hitler's driver. Oh, shit, yeah. Did you ever see that movie Driving Mr. Hitler? No, Norman. I did not. And even though I don't get out to the movies much, I suspect you're making this up.

It bombed. No one saw it. But then they made the sequel driving Miss Daisy. That one did really well. A lot of people don't know that that's a sequel. But, you know, it is the case sometimes that the sequel is better than the original. Sometimes. Mm-hmm.

So those testimonies from the Plebbs turned. out to be pretty crucial. Hell yeah. The SS guards on patrol, they witnessed things independently of one another. In fact, one guard said he stumbled upon Hitler and Brown's bodies on accident, just burning in the chancellor. Oh, my God. He's just walking along thinking, maybe I'll make some smores, goes, oh, wait, that's mine

furor. Mm-hmm. That boy is on fire. That's what he's saying. And all of the guards' testimonies were remarkably similar. Yeah. They have no reason to lie, really. Right.

They didn't commit high crimes, high war crimes. They were guards on duty at the chancellery. And these aren't people who are like, my legacy. Oh, I've got my memoir. They're regular-ish. I mean, if you can call someone regular in this situation. For what it's worth, Hugh Trevor Roper did reach out to the Soviets about looking at some documents and maybe talking to some witnesses. But he got one of those automated, we have received your request responses.

And he never heard back. Hell no to the no, no, no, no, hell to the no, no, no. Hell to the no. You're almost happy to hear it. Almost. But you're still a little mad at the Soviets. I am. I love that little jingle they play. I'm going to say no, though.

On November 1st, 1945, Trevor Roper completed his report and presented his findings to the world. It concluded that Hitler had shot himself in the bunker and his body was burned in the garden, leaving, quote, only an unrecognizable and fragile remainder. The bones would withstand the heat. These bones have never been found. A few details were a bit off. For example, Trevor Roper claimed Hitler shot himself in the mouth. That was not true.

But overall, it was a remarkably accurate account of Hitler's final days. Why did he think that he'd shot himself in the mouth? Witness testimony. Okay. That was one of the weaknesses of his report, is it relied heavily on witness testimony. But that's just because he didn't have access to a lot of stuff. Sure. But more importantly, Trevor Roper argued that the idea that Hitler could have escaped was near impossible on a physical and psychological level.

Okay, now this is, yeah, this is interesting. Because he was an expert on Nazi ideology. And I think that's really important. Trevor Roper ended his report with, quote, evidence is not complete, but it is positive, circumstantial, consistent, and independent. The only conclusive evidence would be the discovery and certain identification of the body. Hopeful to remain on friendly terms, the British sent the Soviet Union Trevor Roper's report. The Soviets found the report, quote, very interesting, which is a polite way to say,

I fucking hate this. Yeah. Go away. We are not friends. Yeah. When you give someone a gift at Christmas and their response. was, oh, very interesting. It means they hate it.

Uh-huh. You and I have gotten that response before? We have. We won't talk about it. Kristen, wouldn't you know it? Trevor Roper's report really pissed off Joseph Stalin. Sure. How could the British and the Americans have more information on Hitler's death than Soviet intelligence?

They literally had control of the chancellery and the bunker. They had the scene of the crime. they had a ton of prisoners from the bunker. These are all fair questions. So in 1946, Joseph Stalin ordered a new investigation. Well, he should have ordered a new one right after they came up with that stupid smear thing that was like... Smirsch. Smirsch.

I'm going to feel really stupid if that's not how you say smirsh, but... It sounds like Daffy Duck's trying to talk to me. Well, anyway, so what's Shemir take to? Stalin ordered a new investigation, but this time by the NKVD, the Soviet secret police. Okay. You don't want to piss off the Soviet secret police. Well, it sounds like you don't want to piss any of these fuckers off. No, you don't.

But how many little groups does he have? He has a lot. Yeah, okay. And they were kind of rival groups. Of course they were. For Stalin's love and power, you know. Yeah. You know how it is.

Sounds like someone's struggling for power. I see it all the time on Kitchen Nightmares, and I'm sure you see it all the time on Big Brother. They were ordered to go back to the furor bunker, investigate Hitler's death at the scene of the crime. Stalin gave it the codename Operation Myth. The NKVD went to the bunker, and they performed a thorough investigation. They recreated the events of the final days using the German prisoners who were there. They literally bust them out to Berlin for a day and recreated the events. What a weird field trip that had to be.

Right? The NKVD took photos. They took measurements. Inpected walls and ceilings for evidence. They searched for traces of blood. They spent a ton of time in Hitler's study where he had killed himself. They studied the study. Wow.

Your wit is incredible. It's unmatched. This is a comedy podcast. Did you know that I'm actually a special part of Stalin's comedy troupe? Wow. Incredible. We're called the Papp Shmirs because we're a bunch of funny ladies. I love it.

Kiki's here. Folks, we got a cat here. Mm-hmm. Don't mind her. Kiki has come in to listen to this episode and give notes, and she wants to sit in Norm's lap as... That's fine. He tells the story, apologies to anyone who is now at the $10 level on our Patreon and looking directly at a cat's butthole. We will digitally remove it like they did in the movie cats.

That's right. It will be extremely expensive, but we think we can all agree. I think it's worth it. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, the NKVD spent a ton of time in Hitler's study where he had reportedly killed himself. The room was put back together the way it was the night he died. Blood samples were taken from the stains on the couch and sent for testing. They should have done all this in the beginning, by the way.

It's crazy. I was going to say, do you think they were just so sick of war by that point that they were like, fuck it. Let's just put together the worst little slapdash investigation and call it a day. Yeah, and that's one of the theories. Yeah. Was that like they were just fucking stoked the war was over and they were just whatever. Here's the autopsy. Hitler's dead, poisoned.

Please believe us. Goodbye. Yeah. The NKVD's initial conclusion was that whoever was sitting on the sofa in Hitler's study died from a gunshot wound to the head. The test results confirmed that the blood type on the sofa was a Hitler's blood type. was also a. Next, the NKVD excavated the grounds outside the bunker entrance in the Chancery Garden.

And in their search, they uncovered two fragments of a skull. One of the fragments contained a bullet hole. You are kidding me. No. So this is further proof that Smirsch's investigation was terrible.

Yeah. A year later, you're finding skull fragments. Well, and one that has a bullet hole in it, That's incredible. The fragments showed signs of fire damage. They belonged to an adult. The bullet hole suggested either a shot through the mouth or through the temple at point-blank range.

Hmm. Must have been a pretty big fragment. It was a huge discovery. Yeah. Naturally, the NKVD wanted to match the skull fragments with the bodies that Smearsh had. Mm-hmm. And Smears was like, we got rid of those bodies because, you know, we didn't We didn't want Hitler hanging around.

We thought that was a bad vibe. We just, you know. I don't know where we put those. Oh, gosh. Who wants to see those? Yeah, the war's over, though. Yeah. Woo.

Let's all go down to Wiener Schnitzel and get ourselves a club sandwich. So the NKVD asked Smirsch for the bodies so they could re-examine them. Smearsh officials said no. Okay, time to go to Papa Stalin. But why? Why would Smirsch refuse to show these? bodies, Kristen. Because they'd been lying all long. They knew they were lying,

and now they were about to get caught, so they're like, mm-mm, we're busy. Yeah, so more than likely, it's because Smears Schnew, their autopsies were bad, and they didn't want to be proven wrong. The original autopsies said Hitler died from cyanide poisoning. The NKVD

was now stating Hitler had been shot, and they even had a skull fragment now, as evidence. And the NKVD would surely test for cyanide with the bodies, which Smirsch did not do. When Smirsch refused to turn over the bodies, the NKVD had to write up a carefully worded conclusion. It stated that the first investigation was not handled properly. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah. You are telling me, they really didn't go to Papa Stalin and say,

excuse me, they're not giving us what we need. It's not clear. So here's what the conclusion said. Okay. Despite all the available evidence, the commission does not think it is possible to arrive at a final conclusion. For them, the following things are needed. A thorough interrogation of the doctors who knew the peculiarities, tough word to say, of Hitler's health and body. That is why we cannot just state this was Hitler. So basically, the NKVD was saying there's tons of evidence that Hitler is dead, but without looking at the bodies, we, we can't make a conclusion.

Okay. So. If the Soviets released the details of this second investigation, it would also draw attention to the first investigation. Exactly. That's why they can't do it. And Stalin would not want to hear that Hitler died by gunshot. Well, or he wouldn't want everyone to know that his first group of investigators had fucked up

big time and lied to everyone. including him. Right. I'm revising my opinion. Even if the second group did go to Papa Stalin, he wouldn't let them. Yeah. Yeah. Because then he looks bad.

Yep. As a result, the NKVD's second investigation was kept under wraps. Mm-hmm. Officially, the Soviet Union maintained their silence on Hitler's fate, despite all of the evidence. Yeah. This is fascinating. This is egos getting in the way. I love it.

We're going to kind of go through a bunch of years. All right. So while the Soviets stayed silent, the West continued to pump out evidence that Hitler was dead. Did they pump up the jam? Pump up the jam. Pump it up. Talk about Hitler. In 1947, British intelligence provided clearance for Hugh Trevor Roper to publish his report as a book.

It was titled The Last Days of Hitler. Personally, I think that is a brilliant idea. The British knew how dangerous it was to keep the Hitler myth alive. Yeah. And so making that report into a book is a great idea. Have you read this book? Yes. Mm-hmm.

I used it as a source through all my episodes. Would you say he's a first-rate chap? First-rate chap. Brilliant lover. Handsome as hell. Oh. This new book included updated information that Trevor Roper had uncovered since original report. For example, Allied intelligence had managed to get a copy of Hitler's last

will in testament. They found it hidden in a briefcase that belonged to a Mr. Wilhelm Zender. Kristen, if you recall from our last episode, when Hitler wrote his little last will in testament, he gave copies of it to a few messengers to deliver to his successors. So like Carl Dernets was supposed to get a copy. Right. Wilhelm Xander was one of those messengers. But before Zander could reach his destination, the war ended. And so he just went home. Well, hell yeah, he did.

But he kept the documents. Hell yeah, he did. Hitler's last will and testament contained a lot of new information, including his marriage certificate and his declaration that he and Ava Brown were going to kill themselves. Wow. The documents were further proof that Trevor Roper's report would. accurate. In 1947, the Soviets decided to get rid of the furor bunker. They didn't want it to become a sacred site for neo-Nazis. And probably to hide all the terrible investigation work they did. I was going to say, yeah. They attempted to blow it up. But it was too double-sea thick.

I'm about to bust. Boy, Hitler sure would have been pleased by that. He'd been so worried that he was still going to get bombed somehow in that bunker. Yeah, so they only managed to destroy an observation tower and the emergency exit in the garden. Over the next few decades, the Soviets would continue to dismantle portions of the chancellery and the Fuhrer bunker, and they used the rubble in monuments and memorials dedicated to the war, which I think is kind of cool. That's really cool. Kind of badass, actually. In 1950, an American wrote their own book on Hitler's final days. USA!

USA! Woo! It was called 10 Days to Die, written by Judge Michael Mousmano. Musmano had interrogated many Nazis as an intelligence officer for the Navy and served as a judge at the Nuremberg trials. Oh, shit, okay.

In the book, he concluded that Hitler had committed suicide and that, quote, it is no secret that Hitler's corpse was never found. In 1953, Joseph Stalin died. The new leader of the state, Soviet Union was Nikita Khrushchev. History Hoes. If you would like a fun movie, check out the death of Stalin. Oh, that sounds like a blast. Oh, wait, no, that is actually a good one.

It is hilarious. I'm sorry, I forgot what we were talking about. Yeah. One of the writers of the movie worked on Veep, and the movie feels like a giant episode of Veep. Which is all I've ever wanted in life. It's a great movie. Highly recommend it. In 195, Khrushchev started releasing German prisoners who had been in the furor bunker. They'd been locked up for 10 years. And now they could share their stories of the final days of Hitler's life with the British and the Americans. And the story was nearly universal.

Adolf Hitler had shot himself. Ava Brown had poisoned herself. Their bodies were burned in the chancellery garden. Kato Hoysermann and Fritz Echtmann, the dental assistant and the technician, they were also finally released, and they shared their story about positively identifying Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown's dental work.

Dr. Hugo Blaschka, Hitler's dentist, reaffirmed their testimony. Trevor Roper continued updating his book. He released new editions every few years. It seemed as though the matter on Hitler's death was finally settled. Or was it? In 1968. What's going to happen in 1968? A Russian journalist named Lev Beziminski published a book.

The Death of Adolf Hitler, unknown documents from Soviet archives. Oh, shit. Okay. For the first time, the public learned about the Soviet Union's investigation into Hitler's death. It was based on the autopsy reports conducted by Smirsch back in 1945. It also contained never-before-seen photos of Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown's teeth. This was a bombshell book. Yeah. It claimed that the Soviets had found Hitler and Brown's body and that they had died by cyanide poisoning.

The book stated that Trevor Roper's report was based on witnesses who, quote, purposely tried to hide the truth in order to foster the legend that D'Rfeuble. had shot himself like a man. Why would the British want that? In reality, Hitler was a baby-back bitch and poisoned himself. Okay, if we're going to go that route, why would the British, who'd been enemies of Hitler, want to give him the so-called more dignified death? That doesn't make any goddamn sense.

No, they said basically the British got it wrong. They believed all these witnesses who tried to make their boss man, D'Rourer, look cool. He shot himself. Basically, the British fell for it. Okay. Actually, he poisoned himself like a little baby. Okay.

Of course, with this information now out there, it opened up the smirish autopsies to intense scrutiny. When questioned about the blood on the sofa, Beziminski said that someone must have shot Hitler after he poisoned himself. Hitler was like, okay, after I poison myself, shoot me in the head. Make sure I'm dead. When people asked, well, why didn't the Soviet Union publish these findings immediately? Yeah.

I said, well, we were keeping this information secret in case some nut job rose up claiming to be Hitler. And then we could provide the evidence right away. Hmm. I think it would have been a little more helpful if they published it immediately. But what do I know? Even Hugh Trevor Roper weighed in on this new book. Of course he did. He said, quote,

no explanation is offered of these interesting facts, which suggest a propagandist rather than a historical purpose. That interesting word again. Interesting facts. Well, Russian journalists are known for being able to say just whatever the fuck they want. Years later, Lev Beziminski admitted that the book was a product of the era. It was purely propaganda. What's so funny to me about that is it was set up as possible. propaganda, but it got people looking more closely, and then it's like it disproved itself.

Yeah. I love it. He said that the government only granted him access to those documents if he maintained that Hitler died by cyanide poisoning. Yeah, it's propaganda. Yeah. Beziminski was not made aware of that second NKVD investigation or the skull fragments. Those are still a secret. Okay.

In 1970, Smirsch quietly cremated the corpses of the Gerbils family, General Hans Crabes, Blondie the Dog, and the alleged corpses of Adolf Hitler and the alleged corpse of Ava Brown. Good grief. They scattered the ashes into a nearby stream. Hitler and Brown's teeth were sent to Moscow. Now, one good thing did happen from that bullshit Russian book. Well, it sounds like a lot of good things happened because it got. people more skeptical and looking into it.

That's true. Yes. But the bigger thing was it contained pictures of Hitler and Brown's teeth. Oh. Forensic scientists were thrilled. Yeah. In 1971, Dr. Ryder Sognaise, the former dean of the UCLA Dental School, decided to investigate Hitler's teeth.

So he reviewed all the dental records at his disposal. He had x-rays. He had interrogations. He had the sketches from Keita Hoysermann and Fritz Ekmahn. And he concluded that the bridgework that the Soviets found objectively belonged to Adolf Hitler. Okay. Ava Brown's teeth were a bit harder to verify because there were zero documents detailing her dental procedures before she died. Oh, so they didn't go to the same dentist?

They did, but there was no paperwork on Brown. They couldn't find any. Okay. Pretty sure. But in 1981, Dr. Ferdinand Strom and Dr. Soren Kaiser Nielsen of the International Association of Forensic Sciences were able to make replicas of her bridgework and filling using the photos and match them up with the sketches of Brown's teeth, and it confirmed that the bridge and filling belonged to Ava Brown. This was very cool, fancy forensic work that I can't possibly explain.

Okay. So I will include the source in the show notes. that kind of explains how they figured it out. All right. So now we have forensic scientists confirming that's their teeth. Over the years, historians continued to research the death of Adolf Hitler. More and more testimony and details continued to be uncovered, and these historians mostly agreed with Hugh Trevor Roper's findings.

Of course, conspiracy theorists also wrote new books with fantastic tales of Adolf Hitler, escaping Berlin. We will explore those in the next episode. When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the Russian archives opened up for business. Oh my God. In 1993, researchers discovered the Hitler skull fragments that the NKVD had dug up in 1946. It was actually kind of a funny story. there was either, I think she was either a journalist or a researcher in the Russian archives. And the person helping her was like, hey, do you want to see Hitler's skull? Oh my God. And she was like, what?

Yeah. Because, you know, that was, no one knew about it. Right. Yeah. And she said, actually. I'm going to Wiener Schnitzel. Yeah. The line gets kind of long at one.

I've got a reservation at Wiener Schnitzel. Reservation, wow. Yeah. This is a fast food joint, by the way. Yeah, but she takes it very seriously. And I think so should you. History, hodes, let us know. Have you ever been to Weiner Schnitzel?

And what do you think of it? This skull proved Hitler was dead. He died from a gunshot wound. Well, maybe not. In 2009, DNA scientists tested the skull fragments and determined they actually belong to a young woman. Shut up! Wouldn't you know it? Conspiracy theorists came crawling out of the woodwork, saying,

See, I told you, Hitler didn't die in the world. the bunker. Well, no, that's not what that means necessarily. I know. Yeah, but I'm just arguing with them. Don't worry. I'm not arguing with you. Conspiracy theorists conveniently never mention the teeth. Right. Never mention the teeth. Okay. In 2018, a team of scientists and journalists were given access to the Russian archives and were able to analyze Hitler's lower jaw and bridgework and the alleged skull fragments, it once again asserted that the dental work was legit. Mm-hmm. The skull fragments needed further testing.

Today, the site of the Fuhrer bunker is a parking lot. Really? However, in 2006, a small information board was installed that marks the location of the bunker. Wait, you're not even calling it a plaque? It's a small information board? It's not really a plaque. It's just like a little sign that's like It's where the furor bunker was Germany has always been

Pretty good about their Nazi past I don't really know what the board says But I imagine it's It's not going to become like a sacred site or anything It's a board of shame It is a board of shame You're right Kristen I'm sure you're asking

All right you smart sexy boy How about you tell me the real story Of Adolf Hitler's death How did he die? What happened to his body? Why did they find his teeth and nothing else? Well, I think you already did. Well, just to wrap it up.

Okay. I'm going to do a quick summary of his death, not from the beginning or anything, just like. Let's start it from the top. From the top people. So the version of events that I believe to be the most accurate comes from historian, Anton Yoakumstala. He wrote the book, The Last Days of Hitler, legend, evidence, and truth. Shout out to him for his incredible research. He's a German historian.

Okay. On April 30th, 1945, shortly before 3.30 p.m., Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown went into his study down in the furor bunker in Berlin and closed the door. They both sat on the sofa. If you're facing the couch, Hitler is on the left side, right next to the armrest. Ava Brown sat next to him. Okay. Ava Brown died first. She bit down on a cyanide capsule and died instantly.

Her body slumped over onto Hitler. Mm-hmm. Then Hitler took out a pistol. He brought two pistols with him in case one misfired. He put it up to his right temple and shot himself. Hitler was always very proud of his service in World War I. He considered himself a soldier. This was the soldier's way to die.

Okay. Some people claim Hitler couldn't have shot himself because of his Parkinson's disease. But if you recall history hose, Hitler's tremors affected only his left side. His right hand was fine, and he shot himself in the right temple. His time of death was between 3.30 p.m. and 3.50 p.m. Some people ask why they never found a bullet in the study, or a bullet hole in the wall from the shot. That's because the bullet did not create an exit wound. It got lodged inside his head.

Okay. A study done in Berlin using the same caliber bullets that Hitler used noted there is an almost 50% chance the bullet would become lodged when fired at the head. It's a shame how many people had to die for that study. They did it on corpses. Don't worry. All right, buddy. Well, thank you for joining this study. We're going to send you a $100 check. Oh, God.

So what's the study about exactly? Don't worry about it. Another claim is that Hitler may have bitten down on a cyanide capsule and shot himself at the same time. This would be near impossible and highly unlikely a cyanide capsule takes effect instantaneously. Yeah. Also, why would he bring in two guns if he was going to do that? Right. Blood spilled out of Hitler's head onto the sofa and on the floor.

His head slumped forward, his right arm fell, dropping the pistol on the floor. A few moments later, people from the Fuhrer bunker entered the study. They wrapped Hitler in a blanket to hide the gruesome sight and carried him up to the garden. Ava Brown was also carried out. She was not wrapped in a blanket. Hitler's orders had been clear. Their bodies were to be burned so that nothing remained. The bodies were placed on floor.

Flat, sandy soil near the entrance of the bunker. Petrol was poured over them. Guards found a rag, doused it in gas, lit it up, and tossed it on the bodies. Created a huge flame. The bodies burned for two and a half hours between 4 p.m. and 6.30 p.m. Wow. There was plenty of gas available to keep the fire going, despite some claims. Some people claimed they didn't have enough gas to burn the bodies.

There was tons of gas available. By 6.30 p.m., there was nothing left of Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown except ashes and bones. The teeth survived the heat, as did the gold bridges and fillings, which have a high melting point. No one buried Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown because there was nothing left to bury, and the remaining people in the bunker were more concerned about saving themselves from the attacking Soviet. That makes sense. Which you brilliantly mentioned in the beginning of the episode, Kristen. Brilliant history, ho. Russian artillery continued to rain down on the chancellery garden.

Anything left of Hitler and Brown was taken care of by shellfire. Days later on May 5th, when Smirsch was combing the dirt for evidence in the garden, they found Hitler and Brown's teeth, but nobody. Smirsch's whole objective was to find Hitler's body. for Joseph Stalin. To keep him happy or to avoid being seen as incompetent.

They picked up whatever body they could find near the bunker. They said it was Adolf Hitler and Eva Brown threw in the teeth

and called it a day. In conclusion, Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown's bodies were nothing more than brittle bone and ash. The teeth were

all that remained and that was enough to prove that they were dead. Love it. I want to go over two other possibilities.

Okay. The bodies that the Soviets recovered were Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown, but they were basically piles of mush. And the autopsies were just poorly done, and that's it. Okay. Another theory, I don't believe this one, but I'm going to tell it to you. Well, I didn't believe that last one, but okay, let's hear this next one. Nazis had created forensic fraud.

Yes. After Hitler and Brown killed themselves, the Nazis took their teeth. purposefully placed it with a random body in the chancellery garden and buried it near the bunker entrance. Then they buried Hitler and Brown's actual bodies in an unknown location to make sure that the Soviets could not find them. Nah. Yeah, I don't believe that one either. Because like you talked about, the people in the bunker were like, we got to get the fuck out of here. Yeah.

What do you think? Yeah, I think the first theory is the right. one. The bodies were burned. Yep, that's mine. Hardly anything left. There was nothing left. Yeah.

Just like Hitler wanted. Yeah, which you know piss Stalin off so much. Sure. Pisses everyone off. Yeah. The second theory that, you know, it was just a bad autopsy. No. No, you don't do a shitty job on fucking Hitler.

Yeah, there's too many red flags and weird shit going on. No photos, no skull. It's just weird. It's all weird. It all, and I mean, almost obviously wrong. This smells like bitter almonds. Yeah. And it's a body that has been charred to a crisp.

I don't think so, my dude. Yeah. And then the third one, okay, so the third one was they were burned a little. The third one was Hitler and Brown killed themselves. Mm-hmm. And then the Nazis either took their teeth out of their mouth or they took, like, replica bridges of their dental work and place them on some body in the garden. Yeah, no.

And then took the real bodies and buried them somewhere. That's too much. It's too much. It leaves too much to chance. Like, oh, we're really hoping that this gets found. It also involves multiple people to be in on it. And the more people involve, the harder it is to cover up. Also, multiple people who are all under a time crunch to get the fuck out of there.

Yes. So that's another thing I don't believe. The other thing is, I mean, if you're going to go to all that work and go take the bodies elsewhere, I mean, what's the purpose to make people think that maybe he's still alive? Or just for the satisfaction of ha, ha, ha, you didn't get his body? Yeah. Well, Hitler was clear he did not want the Soviets to have his body. Yeah. And so that was a way to hide the body.

Right, but just burn the shit out of it, which is what they did. Which is what they did. Yeah. Okay. Well, Kristen, no matter what you believe, we know for sure Adolf Hitler died in Berlin down in the furor bunker. Or did he? On the next episode of an old-timey podcast in the conclusion of this Hitler series, we will finally explore and thoroughly debunk the conspirator. theories that Hitler made it out of Berlin in April of 1945.

You know what, Norman? I'm starting to think that wasn't Hitler who walked in here at the beginning. Finally, I said that in the beginning. You know, I'm starting to think it was actually me doing a funny little accent. I know how I feel. Why would you say that? Like, you put me at such an uncomfortable situation. Like, you know I'm not happy.

You know I'm trying to see if it'll work out here. I just had to do my impression of Kim Kardashian crying. That's exactly what she looked like. We should make that emoticon in the... We already have a very unflattering emote of me in the Discord. Do we need to add another? Folks, if you join the Patreon at just the $5 level, you can go into that Discord and see Kristen's beautiful face as an emote.

Yeah, beautiful. That was so good I cannot believe you weren't going to do this episode This was fascinating I legit was like No one no one's going to find this interesting But thank you history hose for giving me the confidence And courage to pull through

And you are right It would have been bat shit crazy If I did the conspiracy theories first Yeah Well because then it would have been like I don't know Maybe that's true sure Exactly and I thought about that I was like ooh thank God I didn't do that

No no this is Great. Give us all the research that's been done. And then let's go to Nutville. This is going to be fun. Yeah. No, this was wonderful. Good job, Normie C. Thank you. Man, it's just fascinating. All the lies and the propaganda and the politicking and the egos. Yeah. And I mean, even people like Dwight D. Eisenhower, when the Russians came out and were like, like, Yeah, we don't know where Hitler is. We don't even have a body yet. Even Eisenhower is like, hmm, maybe Hitler's still out there.

What do you mean even Eisenhower? Of course. That is what anyone would think. If somebody's saying, somebody who's in Germany is saying, yeah, we don't know where he is. Yeah. So. Then you, I think it's very logical to be like, well, he might still be alive, that fucker. Yeah, but then Hugh Trevor Roper actually contacted Eisenhower and was like, look, I'm, writing this report, here's what I've found so far. And Eisenhower recanted his statement and was like, yeah, he's dead. Well, yeah, with more information, you revise your opinion. But I'm just saying, if all you're hearing is, well, gosh, we're pretty sure he's dead, but we can't find the body, we don't know. Yeah, but remember, before that official statement, Russian officers were telling the Americans British,

yeah, we have his body and we have his teeth. But then that official statement was like, we have no idea. where Hitler is. So you just like sewing that little bit of doubt, it's just so dangerous. Mm-mm-mm. That misinformation. But now that we know everything, we're going to roast the shit out of hunting Hitler. Okay. Wow. I can't wait. It's going to be a weenie roast. Yeah. This was a very tough script to write because of all the information and the Soviet misinformation.

and I had to figure out, well, is that true? Is that not true? It was... You were in and out of that time machine. Oh, exhausted. No, the biggest hero of this is Anton Yoakumstaller. That guy was brilliant. Hmm. I talked to you a little bit about his book. He is the historian's historian. That dude just, like, did the deepest dive of all time with primary sources and figured out the closest thing to truth. Is he the Sasha Colby, your drag queen's favorite drag queen? This is the historian's favorite historian.

Yeah. Okay. This is the book the historians read. All right. It's very good. It's a very dense. Yeah, it's not a page turner. And it's just all meat.

No bread on this sandwich. It's all meat. Well, and he doesn't tell a story. It's like in this chapter, we're going to talk about identifying Hitler's teeth. In this chapter, we're going to talk about the bunker. In this chapter, we're going to talk about the Soviets doing all the misinformation. information. That's what the book is like. Norm, you did the Lerds work because if I'm going to read a book, I need there to be a storyline. I need something. There's no storyline here. Bless you. This was a wonderful episode. You did a great job. Oh, thank you. Very excited for next week. Are we going to be able to wear tinfoil hats? Yeah, we're going to have tinfoil hats. Okay. Everybody gets your tinfoil ready, all right?

That would be awesome if while people listen, they had tinfoil hats on. We should have a little alert chime. All right, everyone, get your tinfoil hats on. Yes. Run to the kitchen. Grab your Reynolds wrap. Post photos of yourselves looking hot as hell in your little hats. Oh, we should definitely do that.

We'll have a little hashtag and everything. Who wore it best? Mm-hmm. We'll have a little contest. Best tinfoil hat. Should we wrap it up? I think we should. I think we should.

Norm, you know what they say about history hoes? We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from The Last Days of Hitler, The Legends, The Evidence, the Truth by Antonia Wachamstala. The Last Days of Hitler by Hugh Trevor Roper. Hitler's death, the case against conspiracy by Luke Daly Gros.

And The Death of Hitler, the full story with new evidence from secret Russian archives by Ada Petrova and Peter Watson. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah, we want to get to a thousand. We're almost there, folks.

Come on. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Old Timey Podcast. And follow us individually on Instagram. is Kristen Pitts Caruso. I am gaming historian and until next time

Tulao, Tata and cheerio!