An Old Timey Podcast - 16: "Hunting Hitler" is Irresponsible BS (Part 4)

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

Put on your tin foil hats, kids! It’s time for “Hunting Hitler.” In previous episodes of this series, Norm covered Hitler’s final days, his suicide, and the subsequent investigations into his death. But the fine folks from the History Channel’s “Hunting Hitler” program want you to believe that Adolf Hitler truly might have escaped the bunker, unscathed. In this episode, we don our finest tin foil hats while debunking that BS.If you feel inspired, share a photo wearing your classiest tin foil hat on Instagram, using the hashtag #OldTimeyConspiracy. We’ll award the listener with the best tin foil a special prize!Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Daly-Groves, Luke. Hitler’s Death: The Case against Conspiracy. Oxford: Osprey Publishing, 2019.Joachimsthaler, Anton, and Helmut Bögler. The Last Days of Hitler: The Legends, theEvidence, the Truth. London, New York: Arms and Armour Press ; Distributed in the USA by Sterling Pub. Co., 1996.Trevor-Roper, Hugh R. The Last Days of Hitler. Seventh edition. London: Pan Books, 1995.“FBI Vault - Hitler Files” FBI  https://vault.fbi.gov/adolf-hitler.“The Hunt Begins.” Hunting Hitler. HISTORY, 2015. https://tubitv.com/tv-shows/200034727/s01-e01-the-hunt-begins.Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes for Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And I know that everyone who hates me is just jealous of me. Kristen Caruso. You know what? You're absolutely right, Kristen. And on this episode, we'll debunk some Hitler conspiracy theories. Woo-hoo! Yeah! Ooh! Ooh! Oh!

Oh! What an ominous thunder sound. Everyone, history hos, I don't know if you heard that, but that was the sound of a dark stormy night, which is what we're experiencing right at this moment. Was that a sign? Like, it happened right after I said Hitler conspiracy theories. It's like God was saying, yeah, you better debunk those conspiracy theories. You think that God is on this podcast side. Got nothing else going on. Can only assume he's on our side. Okay, I'm excited. Are you? Yeah.

Very good. I've been busting my little butt on this episode. You sure have. You've been like, peepoo, pew, pew, shooting down the conspiracy theories right and left, and now you're ready to tell us about all of them. I'm ready to reveal all. Kristen, are you ready for your plug? Yeah.

Your famous Patreon plugs now? Oh, well, thank you so much, Norman. I really appreciate that. Yeah. You've had some incredible guest stars. Well. We've had Dolly Parton call the show. Yes.

Adolf Hitler stopped by. Yeah, well, we were not. not excited about that, obviously. No, I don't even know. Did you let him in the house? I did. Against my better judgment, I did. I was a little afraid, even though he was so old.

People have been looking for him. Sure, they've been hunting him. Yes. And we found him. He was in our home talking shit on our Patreon. But Norm, I've noticed that we've kind of made some mistakes lately. We have only talked about the benefits of joining our Patreon. Correct.

It's all like, oh, you get this, you get that. really great, come join. Wow, how dumb, right? No, that's kind of like you would want to list why people would join. No, I have discovered that what we need to be doing is we need to talk about the risks of not joining our Patreon. Oh. Because there are some serious risks. And I discovered that myself just this week when we got an email that I'd like to read on the show right now, if we have some time. Yeah, we have some time. Oh, good, good. This is this is kind of a rough email, so just prepare yourself mentally for what you're about to endure. But these are the risks of not joining our Patreon. So just think about it, okay? Okay. All right. Dear Norman and Kristen,

my name is Davey Donks. And I write to you, Norman. Whoa, you're starting out really rude. This is a man who took the time to email us, okay? And their name is Davey Donks. Yes. Okay, I'll try to Keep a straight face. My apologies, Davy Donks. My husband is so rude about alliteration. My God. Anyhow, my name is Davy Donks, and I write to you from the very depths of depression, Norman. Okay, now do you feel bad?

Mm-hmm. Don't get me wrong, he writes. I haven't always been this way. In fact, not all that long ago, I had the perfect life. My wife, Doris, was dandy. Our five children, dad. Affney, Declan, Dylan, Dominic, and Delphine, excelled in their chosen hobbies of DJing, dog walking, doodling, diary keeping, and decapage. I'm sensing a pattern here.

Okay, Norm, I'm just reading you an email from Davey Donks. All right, you don't need to be looking for patterns or anything like that. He has quite a family. He does. They sound lovely, don't they? They sound delightful. Then, a few weeks back, I discovered your delightful podcast. To say the least, I was dazzled. I went to www.w.com slash old-timey podcast and delved into my options.

He included the URL in his email. Norman, I'm not here to critique the email and neither are you, frankly. Yeah, we shouldn't critique this very real email. Davey, my apologies for my husband's deplorable behavior. I discovered that at the $5 level, patrons receive a monthly bonus episode. plus bonus video and access to the Discord. I nearly doubled over when I read about the $10 level, where patrons get all that,

plus a card and stickers, signed by both of you, plus a monthly live stream, and early ad-free episodes and video versions of every episode of an old-timey podcast. But alas, I didn't sign up. I was distracted by a dashing dump truck. Since then, my life and the lives of my darling family members have been destroyed. Doris developed diarrhea. Developed diarrhea? Slowly came along. Daphne was

demoralized by a doxand. Declan got Dutch ovened. Dylan daggered Dominic and denied wrongdoing. And Delphine drenched herself and died Dr. Pepper. I know that this would never have happened if I'd simply signed up for your Patreon at www. patreon.com slash old timey podcast. Please read this email aloud on your next episode. If it helps just one person join the Patreon, I'll be satisfied. Sincerely, Davy Donks. Wow. Wow. I'm a little emotional.

Oh, my God. Thank you, Davy Donks for the vulnerability to share all that. Yeah. And I hope our listeners pay attention to his words. I hope they're scared shitless. I hope they're listening. I hope they listened carefully to Davy Donks' warning. Yeah.

They too could be. immoralized by a doxand. Thank you for that very real email, Kristen. Why are you thanking me when you should be thanking Davy Doms? Well, thank you for reading it and bringing it to our attention. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry I couldn't do a plug, but I thought, you know, maybe just by reading this email, we would help just one person.

It's almost a PSA. We just did. It sure is. We can save people. Uh-huh. You have a mistake of shame, Kristen. Do I? I don't think I do.

Mistakes? of shame. What the fudge did I do wrong? In our last episode, when we discussed Adolf Hitler, burning it up, you said that bones don't shrink. Well, it was more of a question, wasn't it? No. You said that, like, you said that Ava's body, or, I'm putting body in quotation marks, because you just can't trust the Soviets on this issue.

I'm sorry. They said that, oh, yeah, we found her body. She's five inches shorter than she wasn't. Because, you know, which I think is too many inches to lose and be the same person. Am I wrong? Well, you specifically said that like, well, bones don't shrink. And we had a lovely patron comment that bones do indeed shrink when burned, depending on how hot the body is. How does this patron know this?

The better looking the person is, the more of the bone shrink. Shut up. How does this person know this? I don't know, but I verified it. Oh. And it's true. Bones do shrink. Damn it!

Again, depending on how hot you get them bones. Boy, all right, this really has been a mistake of shame. I've learned a lot today. Thank you to the murderer, who's clearly in our Patreon and was like, no, I've experienced this. I know they do shrink. And thank you to my husband, who also Googled something. According to Google, yes, bones shrink in volume when burned. The degree of shrinkage depends on the temperature at which the bone is burned.

A lot of women don't know about shrinkage, in my defense. Fair. I am sorry for my mistake of shame. Mistakes of shame. Thank you, Kristen. You're welcome. Okay. Are we ready to get weird?

Yeah, I mean, I ate a lot of Chapo-Lay before we started this episode, so I'm already feeling weird, and now you're going to give me some weird subject matter. Here we go. I need to give a special shout-out to my friend at the Chipotle. I think he knows me now because whenever this dude's working, he gives me the biggest burrito of all times. How do you know who's working at the Chipotle? I don't. Exactly.

But I just feel like there's a guy there that's making them special for me because we go there a lot. And I feel like he's like, oh, it's Normie C with his burrito order because I get the same thing every time. And today he, I couldn't even finish it. That's how much he gave me. This feels very similar to how dudes go to strip clubs and they walk out of there like, I think that lady really likes me.

That's the vibe you're giving right now. I think this burrito artist likes me. So I might bring him some flowers tomorrow. Congratulations. Okay. So we're going to talk about some Hitler conspiracy theories today. But before we do, Previously, on an old tiny podcast.

Oh! On May 2nd, 1945, the German army surrendered to the Soviet Union in Berlin. Joseph Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union, heard reports that Adolf Hitler had killed himself? Question mark? And that his body was burned in the Reich Chancellor's Garden? Well, Stalin had a new objective. Find Hitler's body. He assigned the task to a counterintelligence unit known as

Smearsh. Sorry. I should be used to that word by now. At first, Smears tried to pass off a lookalike corpse as Hitler's, but no one was buying it. So they kept digging. Soon they found two charred bodies of a man and a woman near the entrance of the bunker. Could this be Adolf Hitler and his wife, Ava Brown? They sent the bodies off for examination.

The autopsies raised some red flags. It showed the female corpse was hit by shrapnel while alive. despite witnesses saying Brown poisoned herself. The corpse also smelled of bitter almonds, despite being burned. The male corpse was missing afoot, and they saw no sign of lethal injuries, despite all the witness testimony that Hitler shot himself. There are also no photos of the bodies, no witness identification of the bodies. Despite all these oddities, the Soviets ruled that it was indeed Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown,

and they had both died from cyanide poisoning. Well, that settles that. I guess we're done here. You sure about that? However, there was one thing the Soviets found that was crucial. Teeth, dental bridges, and fillings. Two German prisoners identified the teeth as belonging to Hitler and Brown. But the teeth weren't attached to any skulls. Just loose in a box.

Very odd. Privately, Soviet officials told the Americans and British that they had found a body and identified it as belonging to Hitler. But publicly, the Soviets were claiming they had no idea where Hitler was. He could have possibly escaped. Rumors of Hitler's survival caused violence in post-war Germany as Nazi resistance groups became emboldened.

Conspiracy theories started popping up claiming Hitler was alive in Argentina, in Spain, and in Amsterdam serving mochas at a cute little coffee shop. The British and Americans knew how dangerous this could be, so they did their own investigation into Hitler's death. They combed through tons of documents and interrogated their own German prisoners, and they concluded that Hitler had killed himself.

This infuriated Joseph Stalin, who demanded a new investigation from the NKVD, the Soviet secret police. The NKVD found new evidence that Hitler had indeed shot himself, including a skull fragment with a bullet hole. But not wanting to bring attention to their botched investigations, the Soviets kept it all the secret. In the 1950s, the Soviets finally released many of their...

German prisoners from the war. And those prisoners reaffirmed to the world that Hitler and Brown were indeed dead. We'll never know if those bodies the Soviets found belonged to Hitler and Brown. The Soviets cremated them in the 1970s. But the teeth remained, and forensic analysis confirmed they belonged to Adolf Hitler and Eva Brown. In the 1990s, the Soviet Union collapsed. Gorsh. But that means the Russian archives were now open to researchers. And in 1993, one of them found the Hitler skull fragment. Holy smokes.

More proof that Hitler was dead, right? Was this all done by cartoon characters? Yes. Incredible. Well, maybe not. A DNA analysis in 2009 confirmed the skull belonged to a woman. Of course, this discovery didn't negate all the other evidence that Hitler was dead, but conspiracy theorists pounced on the news. You see, the skull fragment was not Hitler's.

He did survive. And this became a major talking point for the 2015 History Channel show, Hunting Hitler, which follows an investigative team looking for evidence of Adolf Hitler's escape from Berlin. And so today, I will not only recap this show, but also debunk the fuck out of it. Now, Norm, did you enjoy this program? Hunting Hitler? Uh-huh. It was a great comedy. Very funny.

Oh. Norm, you're the sassy historian. I just think shows like that do more harm than good. Yeah. That's all. Especially being on the History Channel, which, again, I watched a lot growing up, showed actual legit documentaries, and now it's become like a, I don't know what the fuck the History Channel is anymore. It's definitely not history. Well, conspiracy theories sure are fun and not at all harmful.

You wouldn't believe what's happening in the basement of our local Pizza Hut. Would you like to share more? Are you just going to leave it at that? I'm just going to leave it at that. Why does the Pizza Hut have a basement? Exactly. We're just asking questions. That's all we're doing.

History hoes through these past three episodes you have learned about Adolf Hitler's final days, His death, his Rudy-to-Dootie not-so-fresh booty. And finally, you learned about the investigations that confirmed he was dead. Of course, those investigations weren't so simple. Misinformation cast doubt on Hitler's fate, and the Soviets kept witnesses locked away for years. This opened the door for conspiracy theories. And boy, oh boy, there are a lot of them, Kristen. I'm going to give you the basic line.

of reasoning for most conspiracy theorists. Okay? Okay. Number one, Joseph Stalin, the leader of the Soviet Union, said Hitler escaped to Argentina, to Spain, to work in a hot topic at the Mall of America. I thought I saw him there. And Stalin was a major world leader. He was very careful about what he said, so there must be some truth to this. Hmm. Hmm. Number two, other Nazis did escape. Sure. For example, Adolf Eichmann, one of the architects of the Holocaust, fled to Argentina.

He avoided capture until 1960. Oh! He was subsequently tried and executed for his crimes. Future topic, by the way. Yeah. Very interesting story. Joseph Mengele, the Angel of Death, also avoided capture. He was the doctor at Auschwitz who decided who lived or died.

Well, and he performed all those. And he performed experiments. Yeah. He fled to South America and died in 1979 when he had a heart attack while swimming at a coastal resort in Brazil. I hate this. I fucking hate this. He avoided it. He got away multiple times. See, now I want, I want series on all these fuckers. Okay. Noted. Put it in the noggin. Okay. But I'm going to, I just, what a fucking way to go.

You know? Drowning at a coastal resort in Brazil. Yeah, living your best life when you're a Nazi doctor. The Nazi doctor, excuse me, sorry. Well, Adolf Hitler was way more important than both of these douchebags. So what's to say? He didn't escape, too. I get where they're going with that.

Sure. Number three. The Soviets claimed they had skull fragments belonging to Hitler, but DNA tests proved they belonged to a woman. plus they never found a body, so Hitler must have escaped. And number four, intelligence documents from the UK and the United States confirmed there were active investigations looking for Adolf Hitler after the war, so they knew he wasn't dead.

Okay, we're going to go through all these. Okay, I'll just keep my mouth shut. All right, fine. We're just asking questions, Kristen. I fucking hate this. We just want to know more. I fucking hate it. All right, I'm going to offer some counterpoints.

Number one, we have eyewitness testimony from multiple people who were in Dürfürer bunker that Hitler killed himself and his body was burned in the Reich Chancellery Garden. Right. Number two, we have forensic evidence that Hitler is dead. His teeth, his lower jaw, the dental bridges, confirmed forensically they belonged to him. Mm-hmm. Number three, Hitler repeatedly said that if Germany was defeated... I'll tell myself, but it's your fault. He talked about it, he wrote about it, and when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Yeah. As historian Luke Daly Groves wrote, when Hitler made his bid for world mastery, it wasn't with the idea that he could try again another time if it failed. Yes. Yes. It was all or nothing. Total war. Many Nazi fanatics knew this. The mass suicide which accompanied the end of the Third Reich was so widespread that, in a way, Germany was committing suicide.

Number four, Hitler's mental and physical health were terrible. By the end of his life, Hitler could barely walk up the bunker stairs. And people think he is going to travel around the world in a plane, or on a submarine, or to some South American jungle riding a donkey. I don't think so. Yeah. Number five. If Hitler did escape, he was...

Solo, I'm riding solo. I'm riding solo. Oh! The soundboard is just... It's popping today. It gets better and better, Norm. Almost everyone from the Fjurer bunker was accounted for after the war, either alive or dead.

Bodyguard, secretaries, aides, pilots, chauffeurs, even the cook. So if Hitler left the furor bunker, he left alone. Yeah, bullshit. There were only two people from the bunker who were not accounted for. The first was Martin Borman,

head of the Nazi party. Circumstantial evidence said he was dead, but there were a ton of rumors claiming he was still alive. West Germany even put out a reward for his capture. but as we learned in episode two, I believe, of this series, in 1972, construction workers uncovered his bones. Forensic analysis confirmed it was Martin Borman.

He had killed himself trying to flee Berlin. So check him off the list. He's now been accounted for. All good history hosts, listen to this podcast with a dry erase board and a cork board nearby. And they're just taking notes. Bingo, bingo, bongo. Keep going, ladies. The second person was hind. Ehrick Mueller. He was a high-ranking member of the SS, and still to this day, he has never been found.

Oh, shit. British intelligence believe he died trying to leave Berlin, but his body was never identified, and he was probably just thrown into a corpse pile. Honestly, that probably is the thing that makes the most sense. That in a war zone, yeah, some people just die. Yeah. Well, and he was fleeing, right, at the time? Yes. So yeah, he probably wasn't wearing his I'm a top Nazi uniform. Or his T-shirt, I'm a Nazi and I'm damn proud.

Yeah. Number six. If Hitler escaped, the other Nazi suicides just don't make sense. Joseph Goebbels and Magda Gerbils stated that they couldn't live in a world without Hitler. And apparently, neither could their six children. Would they have killed their kids if Hitler were still alive? Wouldn't Joseph Goebbels have been? joined Adolf Hitler on his tour around the globe.

Yeah. He could have read him more bedtime stories and changed his diapers. Mm, that'd be a real pleasure. Okay. Well, I could go on and on about why conspiracy theories are stupid. But for now, let's forget all about facts and logic. Mm-hmm. Let's humor ourselves.

Yeah. And let's look at some Hitler conspiracy theories. All right. Kristen. What is that? Oh, my God. Oh. Okay.

Okay, that sound means it's time to put on our tinfoil hats. Yes! Do you have yours? I sure do. Okay. Ooh, very nice. Thank you. You're putting it on above the headphones.

Well, yeah. How else am I going to do it? Okay, you ready for mine? What is your... Huh? Okay, everyone, just so we're clear... What are you talking about? I made my hat with Norm looking on in awe, because it's quite regal, don't you agree?

It's very nice. I feel like I'm kind of the queen of. of this podcast. You have what looks like... What are you talking about? It's a carrying handle, Kristen. So you can take it off and put it on. Everyone, I don't know how to describe this hat in a polite way. It looks like Norm has a tinfoil dick coming out of the top of his head. Do I look like an angler fish? I don't know much about this. History homes, we encourage you to also put on your tinfoil hats as you listen to this. We don't care where you are. You're listening at work. You're listening,

while you're out gardening, put on that tinfoil hat. We are having a contest. Post a photo of yourself wearing your tinfoil hat on Instagram. Use the hashtag old-timey conspiracy. And Chris and I are going to look through that hashtag, and we are going to judge your tinfoil hats. And the winner will receive an old-timey thank-you card and a whole mess of stickers. Gosh, Norm, I just don't feel good about the idea of judging people.

Yeah, you're not one to do that. Judge. How will I do it? Okay, fine. I'll do it. All right, Kristen. We're ready. We're protected from the radioactive waves. Yeah. We should be wearing these all the time in this studio, by the way. Well, yeah. Keep the 5G away, is what I say. Okay, so before we get into hunting Hitler, I thought it would be fun if we explored some FBI files on Adolf Hitler sightings. I'm so sorry. It's really hard to take you seriously right now, but I will do it. What do you mean? You've got a tinfoil dick poking out at me. It's a handle.

Okay. Yes. My apologies. Now, you might be thinking, Kristen, why would the FBI investigate Adolf Hitler if he killed himself? A couple different reasons. One, they don't 100% believe he's dead. Excellent. Two, they understand the dangers of conspiracy theories.

And so, oh, oh, my gosh. You're. You're really Your answers are just great Something happened to your handle there, sir Yeah, they understand the dangers of conspiracy theories And they feel like, okay, this one might get a little out of hand We can just do a quick investigation, debunk it, boom, we're good

Excellent answers. So conspiracy theorists say it's because the FBI knew Hitler was alive. That's why they investigated them. They were looking for them. Okay, so here's the reality. Back in 1945, American and British intelligence concluded that Hitler had committed suicide,

but they had no physical evidence of his death. But the Soviets did have evidence Hitler was dead, but then they kept saying that Hitler was alive. Yeah. So the FBI was duty-bound to investigate rumors of Hitler's survival. They got reports of Hitler in Argentina, in Spain,

and even the United States. States. Many of these reports were ignored for their absurdity. A few were investigated. Nothing came from any of them. But regardless, the FBI documented and archived these reports. A big reason was because they wanted to prevent duplicate investigations, which would be a huge waste of time and resources.

Another reason was to keep tabs on the people who actually reported seeing Hitler. Because they thought, these people could cause some trouble in the future. Sure. So these files, you can go online and read them all. They're available on the FBI's website. It's if you want something fun to read or you want a new way to spice up the bedroom, give these documents a read. So let's begin.

What's the sexiest part of these reports, Norm? Because, you know, there are a lot of couples listening. Maybe they could take some tips. Well, I feel like comedy, like making people laugh can like... Laughter in the bedroom can juice things up. Oh, my goodness. Yep. Kind of get the needle moving.

Everyone, he's touching his tinfoil. It's a handle. It's a handle. Okay. So let's begin our conspiracy theory journey by taking a look at a few Hitler sightings in the U.S. of A. Yeah. Hitler in the USA.

Walking around with a fur cloud. And it smells like spinach and cheese. That's right, because he was vegetarian. That's right. That's how we know. It's really him. Ooh, you'd smell that fart? That's definitely Hitler.

I mean, it's about as believable as some of these other ones. I'm going to do these in chronological order. Please do. October 15th, 1945. Where's the... Did you remove it from the soundboard? What? Yeah, Law &...

There we go. Oh, that's a good idea. October 15th, 1945. The FBI received a letter from a concerned citizen. I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that Hitler is located right in New York's city. There's no other city in the world where he could so easily be absorbed. No doubt you have considered this possibility, but I mention it for what it's worth anyway. Wait, is that the end of the letter? That was the letter. Signed Davey donk? He had no proof. It was just a feeling.

Just a feeling. Yeah. The FBI did not follow up on that one. Well, yeah, that's nothing. By the way, have you ever heard the phrase, I'll bet you a dollar to a donut? Sure. It's an old timey phrase. Yeah, I didn't know what that meant. Yeah, I guess I I don't really know what it means either. It means like a sure bet. So like. Dollars to donuts. It's sure bet.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. Still doesn't fully make sense. But, you know, thanks to Joe Biden, a dollar for a donut is an incredible deal these days. Wow. So that phrase has no more meaning thanks to Joe Biden.

Wow. July, 1946. The FBI received another letter. A woman staying at a hotel in Charlottesville, Virginia was having a. breakfast at around 9 a.m. And there, waiting for his turn at the waffle bar, was the man himself, Adolf Hitler. Was this like a holiday inn? What do we got?

That continental breakfast was ruined. I think it was just some local hotel. Okay, okay. The waffle bar part I made of. Oh, damn it, dorm. Sorry. The woman claimed that Hitler kept watching her. And she just couldn't get the experience out of her mind.

So she wrote a letter to the FBI. The FBI sent her a letter back saying, Thank you for your information. And that was it. And that was kind of a pattern with all of these reports. A lot of times the FBI would just send a, oh, thank you for sending us his info. And that was it.

Sure. Kristen, you're going to love this next one. Okay. So one man who had been peddling Hitler as a live theories was radio host Walter Winschell. Oh my God. This fucker, everyone. You may remember him from that Lucy series.

The same man who claimed Lucille Ball was a communist. Yeah. And then told the whole world she was pregnant before she even knew she was pregnant. Real swell chap. In September of 1946, Winschell did a radio broadcast claiming that the United States and Russia were pouring a ton of money into searching for Hitler. Well, after that broadcast, a woman wrote to Wynchell and claimed that they were wasting their money because she knew where Hitler was. Oh. He was right here in the U.S. of A, specifically Washington, D.C.

Well, shit. All right. He was checking out the Lincoln Memorial. Uh-huh. You know, the Washington Monument. He went to Forge Theater and said, ooh, glad I wasn't assassinated in theater. Uh-huh.

How embarrassing. It is embarrassing, isn't it? So the woman wrote that a month ago. She stopped into the Southwest Restaurant for lunch. This restaurant does not exist anymore. Tragic. I checked. Mm-hmm.

It was very craft. and she was looking for a place to sit. And she spotted a man sitting alone at a table for two. And so she went up and asked the man, hey, could I sit here and eat lunch with you? And he said, yes. Or I guess, yeah. The woman sat down and got a closer look at the man.

He was about 5'7, 150 pounds, dark eyes, black toothbrush mustache. Okay, you're telling me he's on the run and he hasn't shaved the iconic mustache? Black hair? looked like it had been died. Oh. He was very pale like he had been in confinement for a while. There was no doubt about it. It was Adolf Hitler.

This alleged Hitler, he was very nervous. Sure. He kept playing with his napkin, and then he kept looking at his watch. Mm-hmm. And eventually he excused himself and left. Well, when the woman got back to work, she immediately called the FBI and reported the incident. But she complained to Walter Winchell that the FBI hadn't gotten back to her. She ended her letter with, I agree with you that Hitler is not dead. I really think he is

right here in Washington, D.C. Walter Winchell forwarded the letter to the FBI. The FBI did not follow up. Yeah. Okay. On February 28th, 1948, the FBI got a call with some shocking news. Adolf Hitler was on a train in Illinois. No. The alleged Hitler was about 5'11. Oh. Pretty good. size actually. Oh, he grew a little bit. Okay. He might get some dates on Tinder that height. Well, it's tall enough that you can lie about it.

180 pounds, 59 to 60 years old. He was wearing a brown suit. He had a small light mustache. The man acted extremely nervous and spoken both German and English with a heavy German accent. But there is also a woman with him. She's about 41 years old, 135 pounds. dark brown hair, wearing a green dress.

Okay, this is the best one so far. A man and a woman speaking German? Could this be Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown? Well, no, because there are lots of German settlements in the Midwest, so it's not the most shocking thing. I'm just giving kudos for, like, at least the dudes speaking in German and seems roughly. Yeah. Well, the FBI thought so, too. They learned that the train would arrive in Chicago at around 1145 p.m.

So they had local agents board the train and check out this alleged Hitler. Wait, how did the person get word to the FBI this fast? I think from the report it said it stopped at a station. Okay. And he ran off and called the FBI. Okay, cool. Yeah. The FBI agents boarded the train.

They saw the man and the woman. And yeah, that wasn't Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown. Okay. The man was actually around 42 years old, and he did not have a German accent. He had a heavy Southern accent. Oh. And then the woman was, at the most, only 23 years old. Okay.

The FBI report said, it was so obvious to the agents that this person was not Adolf Hitler that they did not even make a positive determination of his identity because they feared it might create a situation causing absurd publicity. Yes. Case closed. Yeah, absolutely. On October 10th, 1948, at 1.40 a.m., the FBI received a call from a woman running a boarding house in Washington, D.C. Ah! He's back. He's there. No, he's been there for a long time. Oh, right. He's still there.

It's like you forgot all about that lunch. She reported that one of her guests who had been staying there for the past few weeks was none other than Adolf Hitler. Wow. And apparently, Hitler had his wife and his wife. and son with him. Incredible. Hitler and Ava had a baby. I would like to see the baby.

So the FBI called her up to ask some questions. Uh-huh. When they asked how she knew it was Hitler, she said that the guy looks somewhat like him. What? What is wrong with people? Apparently in this same call, the woman complained that her neighbors were persecuting her.

Okay, here we go. The FBI report said their conversation with her was incoherent and that, quote, she is obviously demented. Norm, case closed. This is really giving me hardcore flashbacks to being a reporter. Uh-oh. Are you triggered? Uh, yeah, because you get these tips, half of them more than half, are like these first ones you mentioned, where it's someone who believes something wholeheartedly and this is an outrage. but they literally give you nothing to follow up on.

So it's like even if you're right, what the fuck am I supposed to do with this letter that you feel is so dynamite that you couldn't even sign your name to it. Yeah. Yeah, and then, yeah, then you get this call. Oh, and also my neighbor keeps accusing me of being a tree. Yeah.

There are 700 pages of this shit, by the way. Oh, may the good Lerd bless whoever had to, Take all these calls. On December 15th, 1948, a man contacted the FBI, claiming that he believed Adolf Hitler was hiding in St. Louis, Missouri. Yes, all right. Here we go. St. Louis had a pretty sizable German population. That's all I need to hear.

So, worth looking into the following month, the FBI. Do they have a Wiener-Schnitzel? No. Okay. So sorry. Shout out to the history hose, by the way. They love them some Wiener Schnitzel. Yeah, my God.

Who knew that the history hose loved Wiener Schnitzel so much? I love to hear it. The next meeting of the Norm Troopers will be at Wiener Schnitzel. Hey, but I love chili cheese fries. No, you're not allowed. Kristen's Nightgarde will be at the next closest Wiener Schnitzel. So we're just making Wiener Schnitzel, the official restaurant of an old-timey podcast. Even though neither of us have, well, no, I've never had Wiener Schnitzel.

Never had the pleasure. Excuse me. Continue. We'll reach out to them and see if we can get a sponsorship going. That'd be sweet. How fucking amazing would that be? If they mailed you chili cheese fries. Oh, they stink.

They're not refrigerated in any way. Okay, so the following month, the FBI interviewed this guy to get more information. The man claimed he had known old Adolf for about two years. Okay. Hitler was the landlord of his apartment And he was apparently He was trying to evict him Yeah, you just don't want to pay your rent

You know what? This points for creativity. I love this. So when the FBI asked him Why he thought his landlord was Hitler He said, because he has a German accent. Yeah. Duh.

Yeah, what more do we need? Well, then they saw what the landlord looked like. Uh-huh. He looked nothing like Hitler. He was short, stocky, gray-haired, and bald. The FBI closed the case. They concluded that the informant had a quote, intense dislike for his landlord. In fact, get this.

When this man would send in his rent checks, he would send them via registered mail with a return receipt requested. Okay. Despite the fact his landlord lived below him. Oh, my lord. Okay. That is peak spite. No, peak spite is being like, you know what? I'm pretty sure you're Hitler.

and I'm going to talk to the FBI about it. You're right. My mistake. Kristen, this sounds like the makings of a wacky sitcom. Don't you agree? Honestly. Hitler's your landlord? I know, no, no.

I know you're joking. But a dark comedy that's just the poor FBI agents who are assigned to this ridiculous shit, that would be a great dark comedy. Yeah. And, of course, all the FBI agents, like, they're there because they've done something bad. They've fucked up actual investigations, and now they have to track down landlords. So you've been demoted, so now you're on the Hitler citing theme. Yeah, that would suck. Wow, wow. Oh, that sound means we have a fun fact. Is that Owen Wilson? Wow, wow. Yes.

Kristen, did you know there was a Hitler sitcom? Shut up. Called Heil Honey, I'm home. Shut up. Norman! I am not shitting you right. now. It came out in the UK in 1990, only one episode aired before it was pulled. Oh my God. But they actually recorded eight episodes

of this show. It even had an animated intro. Like a cutesy animated intro? Yeah. So the premise was Adolf Hitler and Ava Brown live next door to a Jewish couple. Uh-huh. And as you can imagine, they don't get along

very well and hilarity ensues. Did you watch any of this? Oh, yeah. It's on YouTube. Is it funny? No. Oh. Not in the slightest. Okay, so according to...

See, I can see how handled the right way. I don't know. That is in horrible taste, Christine. Shut up. According to the creators, it was a spoof of American sitcoms and how absurd they were. Yeah. But no one found it funny at all. Okay.

Except Kristen Caruso, apparently. I'm just saying as long as you are, okay, maybe, you know, maybe this is how I, I piss off everyone. But I do think, like, so the other week, our brother-in-law J was like, oh, you know, it must be kind of hard to be doing a Hitler series, like on a podcast where you guys are trying to keep it kind of funny and entertaining. And I was like, actually, I think it's way easier on a comedy podcast to talk. about like really, really terrible people because it's not complicated. It's not complicated. It's delightfully uncomplicated. You can just bash on them, make fun of them, and it's great. You don't have to feel bad about it. That's a lot of freedom in a sitcom, I think. And I think the other thing that is funny, don't look at me like that, Norman. I think the other

thing that is funny to me about these people who think, oh yeah, Hitler escaped and he's he's off doing this, that and the other thing, is that it makes no goddamn sense when you look at his psychology. Sure. And as you've already pointed out, all of his medical problems. Yeah. And just the psychology of someone who's that diabolical, has that need for power, and then for him to voluntarily take himself out of that power and go live a quiet, simple life,

that creates a lot of interesting conflict for me that I. that I think could be kind of funny. Well, I believe the show takes place in the 1930s before World War II. Oh, well, that's a huge fucking mistake. That's a huge mistake. Then he's going to go genocide everybody. That's your breaking point right there because it takes place before World War II. Don't laugh at me.

The show's not okay now. Yeah, it's not funny now. Okay. Because then he's going to go off and murder millions of people. It's the aftermath where he's got his tail between his legs and he's farting all over his own tail. Well, tell you what, you can watch it for yourself on YouTube. Sounds terrible. Yeah.

The animated intro is like surprisingly well done too. Well, there you go. I'll put it in the video version of this podcast. Oh, at the $10 level. That's right, at the $10 level. And if you don't sign up at that level, what's going to happen to him, Norm? One day you're decapaging. The next day you're...

I totally forgot what Davey Duncan. and his kids did, but... Wow, it's like you weren't even paying attention. Definitely sign up. He'd the warning of Davey donks. Okay, very good. Yeah. In November of 1950, a man reported to the FBI

that a resident of Madison, Wisconsin, was Hitler in disguise. Oh, yeah. So FBI agents interviewed the informant, and he apparently interrupted the interview several times to play his violin. And then he kept opening the door to make sure his neighbors weren't listening.

Oh, no. The FBI concluded that the man, quote, generally appeared to be mentally deranged. Okay. Case closed. On November 30th, 1951, the FBI received an anonymous letter from a concerned citizen who had questions. Mm. Although all these questions sound rhetorical. Okay.

You ready? Yeah. Is it true that a man arrived in Los Angeles, California back in 1946, who only spoke German? Probably. Yeah, I would think. Is it also true that the man had plastic surgery on his face to, quote, look more like a Jew? Okay. And then after his surgery, did this man leave with the plastic surgeon for South America?

With the plastic surgeon? Mm-hmm. Also, is it true that the man now lives in Miami, Florida? Oh, my God. Working as a busboy in a cafeteria? The letter ended with one final question, Kristen. Oh, my God. Is it possible that this man is.

is none other than Adolf Hitler of Germany? I hate this. I hate everything about this. P.S., I hope to read your answers in the newspapers, as I don't want to become involved. In the newspapers? I'm just asking questions. The FBI never followed up on that one. Could we pause for a bit to talk about the I'm Just asking questions?

Sure. I'm just asking questions. is for real something that people say and they think it sounds intelligent and they think that it makes perfect sense. Well, what's wrong with asking questions? You have a responsibility to ask responsible questions. Absolutely. All right. Just wanted to make that clear.

Yes. We agree. Me and the history hose agree with you, Kristen. When people go down that line of thinking. I want to go full force. Really? Yeah, I want to go, when was your last bowel movement? How big is your dick?

I'm just asking questions. Is it true that you have four hairs shooting out of one of your nipples and five out the other? I'm just asking questions. Oh, what? This is rude of me to say at a dinner party? Oh, now I'm getting kicked out of an olive garden? I'm just asking questions. It's great hearing you say this while wearing the tin pole.

By the way. And I was wearing it. Ma'am, please get out of the Olive Garden. You're disturbing the other patrons. I have not had all of my endless breadsticks. You know, you can take your damn breadsticks and get the hell out of here. And take your stupid tinfoil hat with a cute little bow, too. Everyone, I do have a bow on my tinfoil hat because I do like to keep it pretty.

Okay. Kristen, believe it or not, the FBI was getting Hitler sightings all the way into the 1960. Okay, yeah. In June of 1960, a woman wrote a letter to President Dwight D. Eisenhower claiming she saw Hitler in a cafeteria in Los Angeles on Easter Sunday. Wow. And he was with a woman who looked like Ava Brown. Oh, shit. The woman also offered her assistance in helping to find Hitler.

Well, how exciting. Yeah, she said, well, let me help you on this case. Yeah. Old Dwight was just sitting there like, well, obviously I want to look into it. If only I had some kind of powers of investigation at my fingertips. I just don't, unfortunately. The FBI recommended not acknowledging or following up with the woman because it, quote, may encourage her. To find Hitler. Mm-hmm. Well, how about wraps that up, Kristen? That's just a small sample of the Hitler sightings from the United States.

alongside these are reports from Argentina, from Spain, from Japan, even Canada had Hitler sightings. Even Canada. A. Conspiracy theorists use these FBI documents as proof that the FBI was looking for Hitler. They cherry pick which investigations they want to use for their theories and ignore all the other ones. Are these people fucking stupid? Yes. Okay. But if anything, these FBI reports just provide more proof that the idea of Hitler escaping was ridiculous.

Yes. As historian Luke Daly Groves explained, it is precisely this rich variety of contradictory stories of Hitler's survival that render the arguments of conspiracy theories all the more unconvincing. The outcome of these investigations and the motivations of those who spread such rumors cast, further doubt on similar stories of Hitler living in Argentina that are filed alongside them. I want to jump in one more time. Okay. I'm sorry. I know I keep being like, when I was a reporter, you know, again, I was a reporter at just a little daily newspaper, nothing special.

But when we would get these kind of tips, we would always do our due diligence, unless it was truly like some of these first ones where it's like, have you thought about New York City? I'll bet you a dollar to a donut. that the high school gym renovation is on schedule. Yeah, okay, Norm likes to make fun of me because that's the kind of article I would write. But like, okay, yeah, some tips come in. There's not a damn thing you can do about it, and the person left it unsigned,

so you can't even follow up even if you did want to. Yeah. Others, if they give you enough, you look into it. And honestly, every now and then you'd find something. Sure. And I think the FBI did the same thing. Sure. I think that's exactly what.

happening here is like, okay, you'll look into it. Nine times out of ten, it's nothing. But, you know, because there's always that one chance, sure, you go ahead and look into it. So yeah, using these FBI documents as proof Hitler escaped, it'd be a bad idea. Yeah. Okay. Well, apparently the History Channel didn't think so, because these documents are the basis for a 2015 show called Hunting Hitler. Dear God. Where a team of specialists travel the world to track down the mystery of what happened to Hitler.

Spoiler alert. But now he's dead. History hoes, I have made the ultimate sacrifice. Oh my gosh. What'd you do, Norman? I sat and watched the entire first season of hunting Hitler. So you don't have to. Wow.

Incredible. Incredible work, Norman. So now let's examine the possibility of Hitler escaping through the lens of hunting Hitler. I will recap the first season while also debunking their claims along the way. Okay. If you have a tinfoil hat on, I want you to tighten that bad boy up. Okay. Mine's a fitted cap.

Yeah. If you got a snap back, tinfoil hat, adjust it. We're about to get real slutty, Kristen. Oh. I'm talking hole in your crotch history. Hole in my crotch! Do you mean crotchless panty history? Is that what you're saying?

Hole in your crotchless panty history. There we go. There we go. You're right. Hole in your crotch, you better go to the emergency room. It's just your butthole, sir. Episode one of Hunting Hitler. In an opening title card, it states, in 2014, an executive order from the president of the United States declassified over 700 pages of secret FBI documents. Oh, my God.

Those documents place Adolf Hitler throughout the world. They don't play. Oh, my God. Okay, so I was immediately suspicious of this claim. It's literally like the first thing you see when you turn on the show. So President Obama signed 31 executive orders in 2014. Okay. I can't find a single one that references declassifying FBI files.

And from my research, these FBI documents were declassified back in the 70s. Oh. But you had to go to the archive. to look at them. Okay. And then in 2011, the FBI scanned them and uploaded them to their vault website. Okay. So anyone can look at them now.

Well, and don't FBI documents get declassified after a certain number of years? I mean, isn't that kind of... Depends on, I think it depends on what it is. I'm sure it depends on the subject matter. But if it's something really fucking stupid, like I think Hitler's a busboy in Miami, sure, let everybody look at it. Right. So right off the bat, the show's line. Yeah.

Great start. In the introduction, we meet the lead investigator, Kristen. His name's Bob Bayer. Okay. Bob Bayer is a 21-year CIA veteran. Oh, shit. Okay. During the 90s, Bear was sent to Iraq to try and organize a coup against President Saddam Hussein.

But he was recalled from his mission, and the FBI investigated him for conspiring to assassinate Saddam Hussein. He went rogue? He was cleared. Okay. But afterward, Bob Bear resided. He wrote a best-selling memoir called See No Evil, and the movie Siriana was loosely based on the book. It stars George Clooney, Jeffrey Wright, Matt Damon. I've never seen this movie, but...

Neither have I, but I've never seen a movie. You were probably watching Goofy Troop at the time this came out. Are you talking about Goof Troop? Oh, excuse me. Yeah. Well, Bob Bayer begins the show by reading from a letter written by J. Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI. Yep. It's dated May 8th, 1947.

And it says, quote, American army officials in Germany have not located Hitler's body, nor is there any reliable source who will say definitely that Hitler is dead. What year was this again? 1947. Okay, yeah. So I'm on the edge of my seat. You hear something like that from the director of the FBI.

What do you think? Well, it's Jay Hager Hoover, so. So I want to examine this statement within the context of the time it was written. Okay. Okay. So let's start with that first part. American army officials in Germany have not located Hitler's body. Well, that's true. Yeah. American army officials had not located Hitler's body, and the main reason was the Soviets weren't letting anyone look for it. Mm-hmm. In fact, to this day, we still don't have Hitler's body. Yeah. The second part of this claim, nor is there any reliable source who will say definitely that Hitler is dead. This one I was a little

puzzled by, so I'd had to do some digging. Okay. A year before J. Edgar Hoover wrote this letter, Hitler youth leader Artur Aksman was interrogated by British intelligence officer and sexy historian Hugh Trevor Roper. Oh, we remember him. We remember him. Axeman was one of the first people to see Hitler dead. However, he was the only witness that the Western Allies had at the time who had seen Hitler

dead. So it was uncorroborated. Maybe that's why Hoover claims they don't have a, quote, reliable source. Okay. But I did find another possible reason why Hoover said this. Apparently, Hoover distrusted British intelligence. He believed that they had manipulated the United States into entering World War I. So he wasn't going to trust some interrogation from a Brit.

Okay. Well, if it makes J. Edgar Hoover feel better, five months after he wrote this letter, The Americans arrested Artur Axman again. For some reason, he had been released and he was arrested again. Okay. Well, he was interrogated by the Americans this time, and he once again repeated. He saw Hitler dead in his study on his couch and he had shot himself. Yeah.

There were two other people who could back up Axeman's testimony. There was Heinzlinge, he was Hitler's valet, and Otto Gunch. He was one of Hitler's bodyguards. But they were both in Soviet captivity at the time, so they couldn't talk to them. Nine years later, in 1956, Linga and Gunch were finally released. And they confirmed that, yes, they also saw Hitler dead in his study. He had shot himself. So there you go.

Okay. That explains J. Edgar Hoover's statement. I'm sorry that took so long to debunk. We history heads. We've got all the time in the world, okay? But my biggest problem was they were clearly using that as like the hook for the show. Yeah, it's a great hook. And it was super disingenuous.

But here's my favorite part about this J. Edgar Hoover letter. Because literally the sentence before he said that, he wrote, most of the statements in the public press alleged that Hitler is in South America and that he went there by submarine. None of these allegations can be proven by fact. Interesting. In the show, they blacked out that sentence. Shut the fuck up. Because it shits all over the entire premise of hunting Hitler.

Yeah. And the whole point of hunting Hitler is to entertain. It's not to educate. Right. Well, buckle up. It's only going to get worse from here. Well, next, Bob Baer wants to explain some of the reasons why they need to investigate Hitler's death. Sure.

Yeah. We need a reason for this show to exist. Of course. Bob claims that, quote, all the stories we've been told about Hitler's bunker, there's nothing to back it up. It's the biggest mystery of the 20th century. Hold on, hold on. What exactly about the bunker is a mystery? Are you out of your mind?

I don't even think I need to address this statement. No. We know all about the bunker. There's nothing mysterious about the fart-feld bunker. Nothing. But I am curious, what do you think is the actual biggest mystery of the 20th century? century. Amelia Earhart, Jimmy Hoffa, why they canceled the TV show Alf? Was Alf canceled? Well, yeah. I'm so sorry. I mean, clearly that's not the one that makes

the top of the list for me. I'd have to think about it. Definitely Amelia Earhart intrigues me. Yeah, me too. That airplane that went down in Malaysia. Well, that was 21st century, wasn't it? Oh, shit, that was. Well, okay, let me think some more. Yeah, we'll include it. Close enough. Close enough. Yeah. But certainly not the bunker.

No. That we know all about. There's nothing to back it up. What is he talking about? The important thing is that it sounds scary and it sounds intriguing. Yeah. Well, next Bob mentions that the Russians, quote, completely botched the investigation. He's right.

He's right. He's right. You know, if you keep talking, you're eventually going to say, say something right. A broken clock is right twice a day. I tip my tinfoil hat to you, sir. Tip of the hat to you. So yeah, the Soviets did not treat the bunker like a crime scene. No. People could bribe the guards and go souvenir hunting. They failed to collect evidence. The fewer bunker fell into disrepair. And the autopsies of the charred bodies was just straight bad. Yeah. It was bullshit. Okay. So that's cool. Bob said something actually.

Yeah, it is cool. But then he immediately follows that up with, quote, we have no witnesses. We have no forensics. That's just a lie. What the fuck are you talking about? There were many witnesses, and we do have forensics. Hitler's chompers.

Come on, Bob. Well, then Bob talks about Joseph Stalin and how he claimed Hitler may have escaped. Bob says, quote, these are very serious men who are very careful about what they say. So Bob is implying that Stalin was very important, so he told the truth all the time. It's like Bob's never met an important man in his entire life. You think a 21-year CIA veteran would know better, but... The other thing is, okay, careful with what they say. Sure, sure, maybe they are careful with what they say.

They can say lies, too. Yeah, they're being careful to spread misinformation for a specific purpose. Yes. As we discussed in the last episode, Joseph Stalin did claim that Hitler could have escaped. But he said this, despite having evidence, he was dead. Yeah. And there are reasons for that. Territorial claims, holding onto alliances, associating the West with Nazism.

And then, funnily enough, Bob also claims in this episode that the government lies to people all the time. Wow. Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. And finally, Bob brings up the Hitler skull fragments. In 2009, DNA analysis confirmed the fragments belong to a woman. Bob says, quote, the forensics we do have make it look as if Hitler got away.

No, no, no, no, no, no. The forensics we do have show that what we thought might have been Hitler's skull was not. That's what the forensics say. Yes. Yeah. The conclusion I came to was the Soviets did not find Hitler's skull. Also, the teeth. Why do they never talk about the teeth? Because that's really inconvenient when you're doing a show about Hitler being alive. Oh, right. Bob declares that he wants to do the definitive investigation on Hitler and, quote, settle this damn thing. Oh, he's just sick of it. Oh, he's spicy. So anyone want to tell him that people have been doing this for the past seven years.

years and it's already done deal? He knows. He's a sellout. Bingo. So Bob Baer wants to hunt down Hitler and he's going to use these FBI documents as clues which prove there was an active investigation. These documents place Hitler throughout the world, months and years after his death. Okay. You know who also has access to these FBI documents? Literally everybody? Literally anyone.

Yep. So we can all call out this bullshit. it. Once again, these FBI documents are reported sightings. None of them led to anything. And to say that they place Hitler throughout the world is ridiculous. If I called the FBI and said, oh my God, I saw Hitler eaten carpet in downtown Kansas City, does that mean Hitler has been placed in Kansas City? No, it means a nut in Kansas City called the FBI. Wearing this hat maybe. Yes, definitely wearing that hat. Kind of look like a chef with your hat on. A chef?

I was going for a queen. That's why there's so much height to my tinfoil hat. Couldn't you be both? Queen chef? No. Chef queen? I don't cook shit. She's my chef queen.

We're in the tinfoil hat. This is infuriating. Oh, just you wait, Kristen. God. Well, Bob Baer isn't going to do this investigation alone. No, it's too much. He's assembling a team. So assisting him will be Dr.

John Senses. Sensich has 20 years experience in law enforcement and criminal investigations for the U.S. Air Force. He also worked for the United Nations as a war crimes investigator. Oh, cool. Dr. Sinsich has also taught law at quite a few universities, including the University of Pittsburgh, James Madison University, and Pennsylvania Western University, California. That name is all sorts of confusing. It sure is. Apparently there's a town in Pennsylvania called California.

See, this is like Miami University in Ohio. Yes. You just got to feel bad for all the international students who show up there. Ooh, kind of cold here. Should have done my research. The school used to be called California University of Pennsylvania. That is... What the hell?

Amazing. So Dr. John Sinsich, he seems to be a pretty well-respected individual. It makes me wonder why he would agree to do a show like this. Money. Hello, I like money. You don't need the soundboard. You got me. That's right.

Bob and John will be investigating Hitler's whereabouts from a cozy little office in Los Angeles. But where do you even start with an investigation like this? They're in the perfect place, Norm, because I heard that some dude showed up in L.A. Speaking nothing but German. Yeah. And also he was in that cafeteria eating lunch on Easter Sunday. Uh-huh. And he had his wife.

with them, Ava Brown. We're pretty sure. Yeah. So the first thing they're going to do is they're going to look in these FBI documents for some leads. Oh, my God. Okay. So Bob pulls up this very fancy looking software, and they call it a powerful military tool. Oh, my God.

It's the fucking Internet. It's ridiculous. So they claim it's going to search through the documents for locations, and then it's going to plot patterns on a map. So they fire up the program, and it goes, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. And no shit, I freeze-framed the show when they had the program pulled up. I'm like 99% sure. Uh-huh. It's a fucking quick time movie.

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. So it's not actual software. No, this is the fucking catfish of it all. This is, oh, come to my small town, do the research only you can do. And then they reverse image search, a photo of a model. Yeah. I want to give a special shout out to the real hero of this search.

It's called Adobe Acrobat Reader. Thank you, Adobe Acrobat Reader. That is what I used to search the FBI documents. So Bob and John are they're searching for reported Hitler sightings. Hurry, boys. He's getting away. Yeah. Between April 1945 and July 1945.

So about 90 days after Hitler allegedly killed himself. Yeah. Because that is when Hitler would have been the most exposed. And then they get a ton of hits on Argentina. Oh, my God. There's so many red dots on the map. It looks like Kristen's butt cheeks. Norman!

I don't know what you're talking about. You know what? I love your butt pimples. Don't change. You don't have to lie about the butt pimples. I'm not lying. I've never complained. Love those butt pimples. Okay, history hos, I searched these FBI files myself.

There's only a handful of Hitler sightings between April of 1945 and July of 1945. The show makes it seem. like there's hundreds. But isn't it true that you have 50 fingers on that one hand? You'll never know unless you get on that $10 tier. There you go, folks. Eventually, Bob and John find two reports that state Hitler is hiding in a, quote, Great Underground Establishment that is located 675 miles west of Florianapolis, Brazil,

and 450 miles northwest of Buenos Aires, Argentina. Oh, my God. By the way, those two reports, they found them outside of that search date query. I guess they didn't find shit within the first 90 days. Anyway, so Bob says, when you have one report, so what? But when there are two, that's something. That's when you shit your pants. So the team decides they're going to start their investigation off of these reports.

But you know, they really would have saved a lot of time and money if they have just scrolled down. Just a little bit in that PDF file. Just scroll down a little bit. No, they didn't have the technology to scroll. Because Kristen, the FBI did investigate this claim. Uh-huh. In August of 1945, the FBI interviewed the informant, and they asked where he got this information. And the informant said he heard it from a, quote, lifelong friend.

Okay. But he couldn't reveal his name. He promised he wouldn't. So then the FBI asked, what does your friend do for? living. Yeah. And the informant said, uh, I don't know, but he travels a lot and he speaks many languages. Was this friend's name George Glass?

He, quote, represents various countries and various corporations. Sir. Okay. So then the FBI asked, can you give us a more specific location of this underground bunker, like a nearby town or something? And the informant was like, uh, well, my friend said he couldn't remember. Okay. Also, the informant claimed that Hitler had shaved his mustache off and he had dyed his hair blonde.

There's no doubt that Hitler was now a bronzed, frosted-tipped cutie pie. The FBI also ran a background check on the informant. He worked as an engineer. No prior arrests. No complaints. He was just some dude. Guess what the FBI did? What?

They closed the investigation. Well, yeah, there's not enough. There's nothing there. There's nothing to invest. And guess what happened a few months later? In November of 1945, the FBI got a letter making the exact same claim. Hitler was hiding in an underground bunker in South America. The location was exactly the same, 675 miles west of Florianapolis, 450 miles northwest of Buenos Aires. It also had a similar source. I got the news from a friend. I can't reveal his name. The letter had a ton of typos and misspell. So it was clearly some hoax making the rounds.

Yeah. The FBI just sent a thank you for the information letter, and they didn't investigate it any further. Well, unfortunately, Bob and John did not scroll down in their PDF document. And so they're going to pursue this lead. So they cross-reference those reported locations, and they find that the nearest community is a small town called Charata. So Bob turns to John, and he's like, what do we know about Charata? And John literally just Googles it. Yep.

And he goes, it's in the middle of nowhere. And the language is spoken, English, Spanish. And what else? And German. Dun, don't, don't! German! This is not surprising in any way. Many Germans immigrated to Argentina in the 19th and early 20th century.

And the influx of immigrants turned the area around Charata into a farming community, raising cattle for beef and dairy. Just because there's a German community doesn't mean Hitler was there. Wow. Norm, that's very rude of you to say. But who gives a fuck, okay? It's time to put boots on the ground and investigate. Yeah. The hunting Hitler team wants to look for the underground bunker in Charata and see if Der Fuhrer could have escaped there.

Are you ready to meet the Manhunters? Yeah. First up, we have Tim Kennedy, a member of U.S. special forces and an M.MA fighter. Oh. He's big, he's buff, and he's sexy as hell. I'm about to bust. Does he have cauliflower ear? He didn't look like he did.

Okay, good for him. To be honest, Tim Kennedy, quite charming, pretty good TV personality. All right. Two baddies on this show. Okay. Next up we have Gerard Williams, an investigative reporter who has written for the BBC and Reuters. He's apparently spent a decade studying Nazis in Argentina. He has.

Gerard Williams claims that years ago, he came across this idea that Hitler escaped to Argentina in a submarine. And after investigating, he realized there was so much that history had gotten wrong. Here's what the show does not mention. Gerard Williams is most well known for his 2011 book, Gray Wolf, where he argued that Hitler escaped to Argentina. Oh. The book was described by one historian as, quote, 2,000% rubbish. In 2012, the book was turned into a documentary. Okay.

Why did you use air quotes, sir? Yeah. Well, documentaries should have some truth to them. The fact that the show hides this and tries to show Gerard Williams as some well-respected, neutral investigative reporter. Mm-hmm. It's gross. Yeah. Finally, we have Steve Rombom.

He's a Nazi hunter. Rombombeam is a private investigator. In the 1990s, he started tracking down former Nazis who went into hiding after the war. And in total, he has been able to find more than 170 former Nazis. Shut up! That's pretty impressive. Give this guy his own show. Yeah.

That's amazing. Shout out to Steve Rombom for his amazing work before appearing on hunting Hitler. So, the team is now in Charata, Kristen. And they're looking for clues of a support network for Hitler. Okay. They're talking to people walking by. They're taking pictures of a soccer field for some reason. Why not?

And soon enough, they get a lead. They are taken to the oldest German resident living in Charata. Okay. I'm an old man. I hate everything but Matluck. So he was a child during World War II. Perhaps he saw something suspicious. So they pull up to this compound.

It almost looks like a junkyard. It's got a lot of cute dogs running around, and then they meet this super old dude. Okay. Okay. He's got baggy pants on. They could be Jinko jeans. I'm still following up on that lead.

Okay. He's also wearing a cute little hat. Pukachel necklace? Complete the look. Didn't see a Pukeshell necklace. That's too bad. So then they're talking to the old man, and the old man goes,

Yeah, yeah, I went to a German school. and yeah, we performed marching drills, and yeah, the teacher even flew the Nazi flag in class. I mean, I'm sure, yeah. And then the team grills them with the toughest question yet. Were you and the Hitler youth? And apparently the man refused to answer. Okay.

So what have we learned from this adorable old man? I mean, not much. Here's what we've learned. There were Germans in Charata. We know this. Mm-hmm. There was a German school in Charata. They flew the Nazi flag in class.

I don't think that's too weird. It was the official flag of Germany during that time. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. And this man may or may not have been a member of the Hitler youth. Right. Okay.

Well, the Manhunters decide to go check out that German school. It's now abandoned, by the way. And the school had a Hitler youth chapter. Not surprising. Right. During Nazi Germany, the Hitler Youth was the only official boys' youth program. in Germany. Think of it like the Boy Scouts, but for Nazis. Oh, that's a nice thing to think about, okay?

According to the U.S. Holocaust Museum by 1940, there were more than 7.2 million members, which meant that 82% of boys, age 10 to 18, were in the Hitler youth. Yeah, so they were basically all in the Hitler youth. Okay. So at the German school, the team meets a local historian named Juan Alberto. He has been studying the history of Tirata for decades. He even wrote a book about it. Self-published. All right.

Side note, I do love local history books. They aren't always great reads, but these are passionate historians who are researching shit that very few people care about. Yep. Okay? Like, you'll see some book

about your town, and it's called, like, The History of Pussy Willow Drive. Yep. You know? So shout out to the local historians. Juan Alberto shows the team a photo. from the 1930s.

There's people standing in front of that German school and they're doing the Nazi salute. I mean, that is unsettling. Yeah. And the team is like, dear God. Are they not prepared for this mentally? I mean, like, of course, of course the Nazi youth are doing the Nazi salute.

I don't find this shocking. I just, to me, I'm equating it to, if you saw a bunch of Americans putting their hand over their heart during the national anthem. Right. It's a German school. people in the school are giving the Nazi salute. It's during Nazi Germany.

I don't think this is that shocking. We don't like it, but we're not surprised by it. Yeah, exactly. And then the team finds out that German communities in Argentina, they got news about the war with radio. Of course they did. And guess what? They linked up with other German communities through the German embassy.

So that means they could have hid Hitler in all those little communities. and then they could have even tried to invade the United States. That's a really big leap. I know. Okay, so here's the deal. I think it's pretty well known that there were Nazis in Argentina. Yes. That's not up for debate.

This is shocking to no one. Yeah. So Argentina's president, Juan Perron, he openly supported the Nazis. He gave them refuge during and after the war. But you can't equate that to that means Hitler escaped here. Right. You know? I think you can deduce that, like, if you're going to escape somewhere, that would be a good place for a Nazi to escape, too.

Sure. But that doesn't mean he made it there. Hell no. Let's just say Hitler escaped. Okay. I don't think he's going to Argentina. That is too fucking far. Okay.

I think if he were to go anywhere, it would have been Spain. Okay. Why Spain? His buddy Francisco Franco was in power. It was a fascist state. He had allies in Spain. It wasn't that far from Germany. Right. Okay.

Again, he's dead. Adolf Hitler's dead. Yes. I'm just saying, I don't know if Argentina... I don't think he could have made it to Argentina. He could have. He could have powered that submarine by farts. Ooh.

Lord knows he had enough of them. I didn't think of that, Kristen. Yes. Kristen, you're really... Whoa. Wait a minute. What's happening? Oh, wow.

Norm, I read that in the FBI file that only... Only I can access using this software. It's called Firefox. No one else has it. Oh, wow. Yeah. That sounds really secret and important. It is.

It is. So then the team asks local historian Juan Alberto about this underground bunker. Sure. Where is it? And he's like, well, you know, in the 1970s, they found some Nazi stuff in a farmhouse basement east of Charata. Wow. It was owned by a German family. Okay, yeah.

Could this be the bunker from the FBI files? Well, if it's just a basement, that doesn't really... Shut up. Okay. I apologize. I didn't mean to shit on anyone's Hitler bunker. And so they ask Juan Alberto, where is the house? Where's that farmhouse?

Tell us where it is. And he says, no. Has it been destroyed? I've been a video editor for more than 15 years. Uh-huh. I found this part sketchy. Okay. So in the show, they make it seem like Juan Alberto was refusing to share information.

Oh, these fuckers. I hate this shit. Like he might get in trouble. Oh, yeah. Like, he's too scared to tell the truth, but he knows the truth. But here's what I think. I think Juan Alberto just, he just didn't know where the farmhouse was. Right.

Because my guess as a historian was he pulled that information from like a newspaper clipping. Sure. From the 70s. So I don't know. It just seems sketchy to me. I think it's also possible that you go into an interview thinking it'll be one thing, not knowing the weird angle of this stupid show. Yes, that too. Yeah.

I looked up Juan Alberto. Seems like a totally normal local historian of Charata. I'm sure he is. Okay. But regardless, the team has decided that this farmhouse basement could be the underground bunker from the FBI. files. Oh, great. So they drive out to a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere.

Uh-huh. And they meet this older middle-aged couple, maybe late 60s. Okay. Now remember, Juan Alberto said that a German family owned the farmhouse. Mm-hmm. This couple does not look German at all. They speak Spanish. The team confronts them.

Mm-hmm. And they ask all about that Nazi stuff that was found in their basement. And the husband looked super confused. Oh, my God. And he goes, well, my dad. bought this property in the 50s. Uh-huh. And yeah, it's got a basement, but he used it to store goods for his general store.

Nazi goods? He was like, as far as, he's like, all that Nazi stuff, I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh, my God, this poor man. Can you imagine? This is why this is why you should never answer your door. Bingo. That's the lesson. So my first thought when I saw this was they probably have the wrong farmhouse.

Yeah. Well, what was the hunting Hitler? team's reaction. This guy's being cagey. These people, they're terrified to tell us anything. You're exactly right. But then the husband was like, dude, go and look in my basement if you want. I don't care.

Oh, my God. So they go to the basement and then the entrance of the basement is covered by these old wood boards and they go down the stairs. And guess what they find? Oh, my God, what they find was it really scary in there? It's a basement. Oh, my guys. Great.

Basements are terrifying. Yeah. It's a very well-constructed basement, though. Hmm. Suspicious. The walls are made of concrete. You know who else used concrete? Nazis.

The Nazis. The basement also had air vents for circulation. Okay. Could that mean someone was hiding in there? I mean, if you're using it for storage, you would want some circulation. Yeah, I would think so. Well. No, it means Nazis are in there, is what it means.

Yeah, come on, Kristen. It's a Nazi basement, clearly. No, actually, the hunting Hitler team admits this probably isn't the huge underground bunker they were looking for. Well, yeah, they've got more episodes to do, so they can't blow their load in episode one. But this basement could be part of a larger Nazi network, moving people across Argentina. Give me a fucking break. Well, meanwhile, Gerard Williams, the author of Grey Wolf, he's going to go to the local archives in Characiz. He's wearing a cute little scarf.

Oh. Very nicely dressed man. And he uncovers some incredible information. He has a military intelligence report that lists local known Nazis. Oh, well, okay, yeah. And guess who's on that list? Adolf Hitler. A man named Carlos Buck.

He's the headmaster of that German school. Oh, okay. Yeah. You're supposed to be like, I mean, again, this falls into the same category we were talking about before, where it's like, I'm not happy about it at all. I'm also not surprised at all. Yeah.

Here's my first takeaway from this scene. Why would the local Charata archives have documents on American military intelligence? Yeah. So it's pretty obvious they printed these off ahead of time and claimed they found them in the Charada archives. No, dude. Whatever. Uh-huh. Pure speculation on your part, Norm.

So the team's like, whoa, Carlos Buck was a Nazi. Well, maybe that just. giant underground bunker. It's on one of his properties. Okay. So they're going to search one of Carlos Buck's old properties with radar technology. All right. Mm-hmm.

And so they're loading into their car to go to this place. And Steve Rombom turns to the translator as he's getting into the car. And he says, Come on, get your ass in the vehicle. Like it's some sort of emergency. Shut up, you douche. This poor local translator, do they think Hitler's still alive and like, in that bunker right now.

He would be 135 years old, by the way. And doing better than ever. And that's why they got to get to him fast. We don't know what he's going to do next, Norm. Get your ass in the car. Get your ass in the vehicle. Jesus.

Okay, so before they can search Carlos Buck's property, they have to get permission from the current owner. No, first everyone has to get their ass in the vehicle. Get your ass in the vehicle. Hitler could see him. still be there. So it looks like it's some sort of hardware store.

Mm-hmm. And so they asked the owner for permission and he's just like, I mean, as long as you don't start digging shit up, like, okay, you just want to scan the ground, all right. Seems like he's pretty scared for them to dig stuff up. Yeah. They edited. They edited the video in a way to where he's basically asking, are my going to get in trouble if you find something.

And anyway. Which that's honestly a fair question. Sure. I took it as, uh, yeah, just don't dig up my fucking property. Right. You know. I don't want to be like, just because you stupid assholes have shovels and are hopped up on multiple crystal light packets. Like I don't want to be left trying to put the pieces of my property back together.

This makes perfect sense. Somebody took a citrus pack and a peach mango and made a deadly combo. Okay. So sexy special forces boy Tim Kennedy. He busts out this like, it looks like a lawnmower, okay? And it's to scan the ground. Yeah. And they're pushing it along.

And at first, they're not getting anything. Oh, yeah. Okay. They're just like, man, we're just not finding anything here. But then they start detecting activity in this one area. Holy fucking shit. But there's a problem, Kristen. What is it?

There's a bunch of cinder blocks in the way. And then Steve Rombom implies those blocks were placed there on purpose. Damn right. To hide the bunker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's a hardware store.

And I know hardware stores sell cinder blocks. But no. No. They put them there to hide the bunker, Kristen. Nice try, assholes. Yeah. So they finish up their scan. And all they find is disturbed soil in that something could be buried under

there. And it definitely is. And people think they're clever putting a bunch of cinder blocks over the top. But we know the truth. It was the perfect crime. The truth is out there. So back in L.A., Bob Bear and John Sinsich recap what the team found in Charata. And they conclude, we have enough evidence to move this investigation forward. No, you don't. Uh, yeah. They claim they found proof of a Nazi community. They found a small underground facility in Charata, aka a basement.

And it corroborates the FBI files. History hose, you know, I know. This is a big nothing burger. This is unreal. I hate that it can be phrased this way and be technically true. Yes.

But absolutely false. And the thing that pisses me off is they know it's false. Kristen, from now, on in our house we don't have a basement we have a small underground facility don't don't tell people about about the basement okay okay I'm sorry norm you know that you know that I have German ancestry well we had Hitler on the show last week oh no I shouldn't let Hitler in here busted they are investigating a claim that was debunked almost 80 years ago it's pretty clear

they didn't find diddley dick. Okay? I think Bob thought so too because he says, well, Hitler wouldn't have stayed in Charata. It's too small. He probably moved around to evade capture. But where do we search next?

Translation. We found all we're going to find in this small town. There's nothing else for any more episodes. So now we have to look at other possibilities because the history channel gave us X amount of dollars for X amount of episodes. Hitler hiding in Charata, try that in a small town. So John Sinsich is like, wait a second.

I think I saw something else in those FBI files. What did he see? So he's like searching through this box flipping through the pages. He goes, aha! He pulls out a page. It's a magazine article. And it states, the Nazis and Missyonez are reported to control a system of roadways known only. to them.

Hilarious side note on that article. It comes from an old publication called Fax Magazine. Okay. So this article mentions Nazis in the province of Missionez. Missioniz is only seven hours from Charata, so the team's going to go there next. You know what I love, Norm. What's that? Irony.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. We've got this sensationalist media source from back in the day, they know that if you say something like that, it's intriguing to people. Sure. And they're going to buy it. They're going to read it. They got to sell issues of fax magazine. And how many years later, we've got this fucking show on the history channel. And once again, they've got this thing that if they say it, they know it's going to be interesting to people. They know people are going to watch it. And so they're using that

bullshit as a source for their current bullshit. Yes. You love it. Yeah. I'm sorry to say, Kristen, that concludes episode one of hunting Hitler. They ended on a cliffhanger. They're going to go to Miss Sione's. Everyone get your ass in the vehicle!

I should pull the sound by to that. What a fucking douche. I would have loved it if that translator was like, and I'm done. No kidding. Yep. Oh, no. That would have been terrible because then they would have turned it into, yeah. Our translator, he got too scared.

He didn't want to scan Carlos Buck's property. He was nervous. He got all of a sudden real nervous after I was a total dick to him. I'd love to know, what are your thoughts on Hunting Hitler, the first episode? I think it's irresponsible bullshit. I agree. And a lot of intelligent people have enjoyed this show and recommended it to you as like, oh, I think you'd really enjoy it because you like history. Sure.

And here's the thing. It's a well-produced show. Of course it is. It's entertaining. It kept me, you know, kept my attention. But as you said, it's very irresponsible. Here are my initial thoughts after watching the first episode. I agree with you.

Irresponsible bullshit. But I also thought there's potential here to make a very interesting show about Nazi activity in Argentina. It's known enough that, yeah, the Nazis were in Argentina. But to do like you've got people in Argentina, the cameras are in Argentina actively investigating, that could be cool. You could find some cool stuff. But the problem is no one's going to watch that show. So they had to wrap it in the premise that they were looking for Hitler in Argentina, which is a shame. But that's what TV is, I guess.

No, no, you don't need to shit all over all TV. That's what the history channel is now, I guess. That's what this show is, yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of TV shows that do a great job. There are a lot of great, a lot of great, a lot of great, a lot of great. Yeah. But this is a choice, and it's an irresponsible choice.

On the next episode of an old-timey podcast, what do we got? I will continue to debunk season one of Huntingdiller. Norm, how many episodes are we going to do on this topic? Well, I'm going to say is keep those tinfoil hats on the ready, okay? Okay. Okay, hos? Okay. Honestly, us declaring how long a series will be has become a running joke on this show now.

Well, it's become a running joke to you and I, but I think we need to let the listeners in. So because we research and write as we go, you and I, I think we always start off a series and we're like, it's going to be three episodes. That sounds just right. It's going to be three episodes. It's going to be one and a half episode. And we have been so wrong. So wrong. My three-part series on Lucille Ball, seven.

parts. This was supposed to be a three-part or two, right? Yeah. So from now on, I'm not guessing anymore. Okay. The series is done when I say it's done. Wow! It's my show too, damn it. Yeah. I'm going to keep debunking, hunting Hitler. Okay. You know what? If you don't like it, you can get your ass out of the vehicle. Get your ass out of the old-timey vehicle, okay? Well, there you go, Kristen. I loved it. That got me all fired up. Are you mad? Yeah, but it does have me thinking about conspiracy theories. Hmm. Are there any that you kind of believe?

I don't know. I've never, like, been into conspiracy theories, so I've never, like, looked. I'll say this. I don't think Jeffrey Epstein oft himself. That one I could believe to. Yeah, yeah. I could get behind that one. Sure.

To be fair, I've done no digging into it. I'm just like, hmm. Well, I'll tell you what. Hitler survived and escaped to Argentina? No. Norm, I'd like to believe you, but you've got a tinfoil hat with a huge dong coming out the top. So. Well, should we wrap this up?

I think we should. Norm, you know what they say about history hosts? We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from The Last Days of Hitler, the Legends, the Evidence, the Truth by Antonia Wachamstala. The Last Days of Hitler by Hugh Traylor. Trevor Roper. Hitler's death,

The Case Against Conspiracy, by Luke Daly Groves, the 2015 History Channel show Hunting Hitler, and the FBI Vault files on Adolf Hitler. How'd you get access to those? The internet.

I went to www.fbi.gov. It's amazing that you had that kind of access for this episode, Norm. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey. podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts.

And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. And if you don't, you know what'll happen. Don't do what Davy Donks didn't do. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok apparently at Old Timey Podcast. Follow us individually on Instagram. She is Kristen Pitts-Karuso. I am gaming historian.

next time, to-de-loo, ta-ta, and cheerio.