An Old Timey Podcast - 32: Pocahontas was *not* into John Smith (Part 2)

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

When the English popped up on the shore of the “New World,” they were in rough shape. They didn’t have much food, knew next to nothing about their surroundings, and had a boatload of diseases. The English also brought with them an interesting worldview. They figured that Native Americans would be thrilled to: Give them food, work for them, change religions, and one day pay taxes to the King. They thought wrong. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Custalow, Linwood, and Angela L. Daniel. The True Story of Pocahontas. Fulcrum Publishing, 2007. “The Lost Colony - Fort Raleigh National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service),” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/fora/learn/historyculture/the-lost-colony.htm. “The Virginia Company of London - Historic Jamestowne Part of Colonial National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service),” n.d. https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/the-virginia-company-of-london.htm. Townsend, Camilla. Pocahontas and the Powhatan Dilemna. Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2004. Woodward, Grace Steele. Pocahontas. Univ. of Oklahoma Press, 1969. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye! You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And are we still wearing ankle socks? Kristen Caruso! I know I am, and on this episode, it's part two of my series on Pocahontas. I am too, but sometimes I wear the other kind of socks that I feel like the kids are wearing these days, and I feel like a big dork. Like the long white socks? Yes.

I've tried wearing those two, but... My calves are like real thick, double C thick. Here he goes. He's bragging about his calves as usual. It looks like I'm wearing funnels on my feet. It looks ridiculous. You know, I got to say, as a couple, you and I have massive calves. I understand it's nothing to brag about. And yet, if there were awards given for a couple with the biggest calves, I think we might be in the running, sir.

Well, when cannibalism occurs in a couple years, people are going to get a lot of great meat on my legs. They're going to be chowing down for sure. Okay, great. I'll say, ooh, let's get him. Look at that guy. Look at those calves. Yeah, nice gams, buddy. Maybe I could nibble on them a little bit.

Well, that's certainly a fun thing to think about for the years ahead. In the meantime, if you'd like to have some, I don't know, fun, how about to join our? our Patreon. That's right. At the $5 level, you get access to our Discord where we chitty chat the day away. You also get a monthly bonus episode plus the video so you get to see our sexy faces the whole time, the whole time. And the Discord's a lot of fun because sometimes I'll pop in there and I'll let everybody know that Kristen is currently in the bathroom singing the Education Connection song from 2008. I have no idea what you're talking about.

You do know, go ahead and sing it. Sing what? I went on the internet and went to education. Connection. I took some free test to find out my direction. I'm taking my classes online. Getting my degree on my own time. Education connection.

Folks, just imagine. I was in my own home. My own home in the bathroom doing what you ask. That's none of your business. but I was singing the education connection song from back in the day. Why did it even pop in your head? All I know is I don't know why that song pops into my head. I don't know why I still know all the words.

But I know that once it's in there, it's in there for three days minimum. And it starts from the beginning every time. I went on the internet. It's actually not the beginning of the song, though. What's the beginning? I work for an hourly wage. I went to high school. Didn't do great.

Oh, my God. Oh, what a great jingle. Still, I got to make more cash. More education is what I'm looking at. I can still picture the woman. Yep. Yep. Anyway, so yeah, Norm ratted me out to our discord.

I didn't realize. People liked it. People were enjoying it. I didn't realize until the next morning when I was looking at our discord and realized my husband had betrayed me. Anyhow, that's what you can get. What about the $10 level, Kristen? Oh, that's where you want to be. Pick butter investors get in while you can.

Slots are filling up fast. Oh, yeah. Our slots are nearly filled, baby. First of all, when you sign up at that level, you get all the stuff that those $5 folks get, but you also get a card autographed by us stickers, and you get early ad-free, video versions of every single episode of an old-timey podcast.

And the audio, too. Well, Jesus, of course. You have to watch the video and plug your ears. Yeah. So yeah, head on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast and sign up today. Support this small, independent podcast. We're small and independent, but we have massive calves, so you do the math. These calves can make us money.

Only calves. Only calves. And it's for baby cows, but also they have our calves on there. You think that's a thing? I'm going to look it up. Okay. Because, you know, they're only feats a thing. Only calves.

I don't think people are really that into calves. Our collection of calf muscle pictures is the epitome of artistry. Shut up. Onlycaves.com. Is this a real site? Raise your glass to the lower limb. Yeah. They're really.

is something for everybody. Lots of AI photos. Anyway, let's get to the episode, shall we? Let's do it. Norm, I'm so excited. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, thank you all for the wonderful feedback on part one.

I was honestly blown away by how much everyone was enjoying it. Yeah, I hope you don't screw it up in this episode. Yeah. For real. We've got a lot to cover, Kristen. Okay. So let's get right into it. Oh.

We learned that the life of Pocahontas has been mythologized, romanticized, and fetishized over the years. Gross. No thanks in part to a certain Disney film released in 1995. We're talking, of course, about a goofy movie. And no, I'm not talking about the goofy movie. It was high time we got down to the truth about the fascinating life of Pocahontas. But first, we had to learn more about her people, the Powhatan.

The Powhatan nation was made up of more than 30 Algonquian tribes that lived in the Tidewater region of Virginia. Despite being labeled as savages by early European explorers, the Powhatan did what every other nation was doing at the time. They hunted, they fished, they farmed, they raised families, they fought in wars, they formed alliances. Wow! The Powhatan Nation was led by a paramount chief named Wahoon Seneca. He was shrewd, domineering, ruthless!

Wahoon Seneca had many wives and children over the years, and his favorite child was a daughter named. Pocahontas, named after her mother. Pocahontas was not a princess. That wasn't a thing in Powhatan society, but she did enjoy the privileges of being the daughter of the Paramount Chief. She received lots of gifts, extra tutelage with work, and knew just about everybody in her hometown,

the capital village of Warawo Komoko. In April of 1607, when Pocahontas was about 10 years old, Powhatan scout spotted three large ships in the Chesapeake Bay. The Powhatan were familiar with ships like these, because by now the Europeans had been exploring the area for almost 100 years. Sometimes, the Powhatan were able to trade peacefully with the Europeans. But it wasn't always peaceful. In 1561, the Spanish kidnapped a young Powhatan boy, forced him to be an interpreter, and baptized them against his will. When the boy eventually returned home almost 10 years later, he retaliated by killing Catholic missionaries. The Spanish took revenge

by killing 20 innocent indigenous people. And now in 1607, Chief Wahoon Seneca wondered if those three large ships in the Chesapeake Bay would cause any trouble. He decided to take a wait-and-see approach. He hoped the ships would only stay for a few days and then move along. After all, that's what most European visitors did. But these ships, were not leaving, and it was not to Spanish. It was a group that called themselves English. Gentlemen, I give you Britannia. Fresh in your drink, governor.

And that is where we will pick up our story today. Hmm. Oh, Norm, I love any intro that includes the word tutelage. I used tolage in my last episode, too. Very proud of myself. Yeah, congratulations. Not to tutelage your own horn or anything. Oh, hey!

Yay. Where's my room shot? There we go. Okay, Kristen. In our last episode, we learned all about the Powhatan people and their experiences with early European explorers. And in this episode, we are going to learn more about the English in the series of events that led them to arrive at the Powhatan Nation of Seneca. Because believe it or not, this was not England's first journey to the new world. However, compared to their rivals, the Spanish,

English were kind of late to the whole colonization game. Oh. Try and keep up, please. I think they did eventually keep up and set some record. Sorry. Sorry. So, before we dive into the Jamestown settlement, let's get some background information and answer some burning questions. Like, why did Spain and England have beef?

Why was England late to the colonizing game? Is it okay to pee in a hot tub? No. Oh. I vote no. Okay. And how did England's earlier attempts to settle in the new world pan out? So here we go.

Okay. I know history hoes, and perhaps you, Kristen, might find this a little crazy, but I kind of want to go way back to the early 1500s. This is classic norm. First, let's give some context. Before that, let's give some context. And hold on, before we get their context. I went down a rabbit hole and I just have to talk about it.

We love it. We love it. Are you familiar with a fella named King Henry the 8th? Yeah. Okay. What do you know about King Henry the 8th? I know he had six wives. Mm-hmm.

Okay, future topic. But I'm going to give a very brief summary. I kind of want to burn through this because I do think it's semi-important. Okay. Okay. So Henry the 8th became the King of England in 1509. And during his reign, he really wanted a male heir for a couple of reasons. Number one, a woman had never ruled England before.

It was unheard of! You got to have a king. Number two, his father, Henry the 7th, only became king thanks to a civil war. So they needed a male heir to kind of stabilize the new royal family situation. And nothing's more unstable than a woman. Bingo. So almost immediately after taking the throne, Henry VIII turned to his brother's widow, Catherine of Aragon, And said,

Let's get married and make a baby. And make babies they did. Six of them. Sadly, only one survived past infancy. Good grief. A daughter named Mary. Okay. Useless.

Sorry, I'm just, I'm really on his side, you know. That's good. You know, that's kind of cool. You're recognizing the faults of your gender. Okay. Too much too soon, Norm. God damn it! A self-hating woman.

There are a few of us out there. There are. Ask me how I know. So eventually it became clear that Catherine could no longer have children, but Henry the 8th still didn't have a boy. And that really bugged him. And this became known as the King's Great Matter. So he proclaimed that this marriage is cursed.

I never should have married my brother's widow. And therefore, this marriage needs to be annulled. One problem with that, though. And this is why I have to bring up this story. Yeah. England was a Catholic nation. Right. Henry VIII needed the Pope to grant him an annulment.

And guess what the Pope said? Nope. Hell no. To the no, no, no. Hell to the no. So a big reason why he said no? Catherine of Aragon was the aunt of King Charles V of Spain, a.k.a. the Holy Roman Emperor.

very influential, very powerful dude. Well, do you think that stopped Henry the 8th? I know for a fact it didn't. It did not, you're right. I've seen Sixth the musical. Oh, yeah, that is about Henry the 8th. Yeah. Okay, so he took over the Church of England.

He severed ties with the Pope. England is now Protestant. Woo! Yeah. So Henry the 8th abandoned Catherine of Aragon for a new lady, Anne Boleyn. and he turned to Anne and he said Let's get married and make a baby

Anne was pregnant four times but only managed to give birth to one child and it was a daughter named Elizabeth. Oh! Okay, so King Henry VIII has a daughter Mary from his first wife has a daughter Elizabeth from his second wife but he needed a son. So he annulled his marriage...

He really didn't though, but okay. Anyway, continue, Henry. He annulled his marriage to Anne. And Balin, and had her executed for adultery, said, you've been cheating. I'm sure. No evidence of that, by the way. Of course. And then.

I'm sure he always kept it in his pants. Absolutely. God-fearing man would never cheat. Just a few times. Just a few times. And he was always justified. Ten Hill Marys, you're good. And then Henry VIII turned to a woman named Jane Seymour and said,

Let's get married and make a baby. Uh. Finally, 1537, Henry gets that son he always wanted. His name was Edward. Well, 10 years later, in 1547, Edward becomes the King of England at the age of nine. Oh. Wait, did Henry kick the bucket way earlier than I realized? Well, he died in 1547.

Okay. This sounds like a great TV show, Kristen. Kind of like Dugie Hauser. Not really, though. Coming this fall to NBC. King baby. He's a king, but also a baby. God. My lord, we must deal with these rebels in the highlands. Go, go, go. Oh my God. What do you think? Do I have something here? You've got something. We'll test it out Thursday nights at 8 p.m. Central. Right after their friend's reunion or whatever.

You think they'll do a friend's reunion? Matthew Perry's dead. Without Matthew Perry. Well, obviously without him. No, I think be a little weird maybe. I don't know. We'll cut this. So King Edward did not rule furlong because he died six years later. So that means Jane Seymour was the third wife. Yeah.

He had six total. So Henry just ran through him, huh? Yeah, he did. Well, I guess it helps if you murder half of them or whatever. Anyhow, go on. Sorry. A future topic for sure, Henry the 8th and all of his wives. Actually, that was the topic I was talking to you about earlier today. I was like, I really think you would like this.

I probably would love doing a series where each woman got her own episode, a la six, and I'd sing it the entire time. Oh, well, maybe we don't do the singing. No, it's done. Consider it done. Okay. Well, I'm glad I gave you some good ideas here. Well, and people have heard me sing the Education Connect song, so they know I've got the pipes. Education Connection?

What I say? Education Connect. Oh, that's the remix. Sorry, try to keep out. Okay, so King Edward the 6th dies at the age of 15. There's no male heir to take the throne. So England's finally going to be run by a woman. In July of 1553. Is this why we've never heard of England before?

Are you being sarcastic rat now? Yeah, because a woman ruined the whole thing. Anyway, continue. So Mary takes over. In July of 1553, Henry VIII's first daughter, Mary, became the very first queen to rule England. Wow. Mary was a devout Catholic, and she was not a fan of what her father had done to her mama. I bet.

So she switched England back to Catholicism, and she solidified everything by marrying a Catholic man, and who better than King Philip I second of Spain. But Mary's reign did not last long either. She died five years later. Good Lord. Without having any children. And that meant Mary's half-sister, Elizabeth, became the new queen. And guess what? Elizabeth was Protestant.

Here we go again. England is Protestant again. Jeez. But wait. Here comes King Philip II of Spain, the widower of Queen Mary. And he says to Queen Elizabeth, King Philip hoped to marry Elizabeth to maintain power and keep England Catholic. But Queen Elizabeth was like,

eh, I don't want to marry you. Yeah. And this was kind of the beginning of a long, drawn-out feud between Spain and England, Catholics, and Protestants. So, King Philip II thought Elizabeth was not the legitimate heiress to the throne because she was the daughter of an illegitimate marriage between him. Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn. He didn't really think that, but he's just trying to get power. So whatever, dude.

Struggling for power? Yes. Sounds like someone's struggling for power. He thought the true heiress was Mary Queen of Scots, a Catholic and the great-granddaughter of Henry the 7th. Also, Queen Elizabeth's cousin. Well, guess what happened next, Kristen? What?

Queen Elizabeth had Mary Queen of Scots executed for plotting to overthrow her. Oh. And then Queen Elizabeth. sent support to Protestant rebels in the Spanish Netherlands. And then Queen Elizabeth started privateering Spanish vessels carrying gold, silver, and supplies from the new world. Privateering. You might be asking yourself, Kristen, what the fuck is privateering? I am.

It's a great question. It's basically piracy made legal by a government. Oh, fancy. Okay. So England was commissioning private ships to intercept. Spanish vessels and steal the booty. Oh. Yeah.

Totally legal. No, it's not. It's privateer. It's not piracy. This is privateering. That means it's legal. Okay. Well, I'm going to go out and commit murder, which is different than murder.

And it's totally fine. If Joe Biden says you can do it, then it's okay. Right. Come on, man. But even with all of these shenanigans, England was no match for Spain at that time. Spain was a dominant force in the world, especially with their established colonies in Central and South America, Florida, and the Caribbean. And English explorers, they were pretty jealous of Spain.

100 years earlier, Christopher Columbus had asked King Henry the 7th of England to fund his little exploration. Oh. And King Henry said, Hello to the no, no, no, no, yeah, to the no. And we all know this story. Guess who finally told Columbus yes? Who?

The Spanish. And now they were reaping the rewards. One Englishman lamented, How many did condemn themselves that did not accept of that honest offer of noble Columbus? Okay. So yeah, English explorers were horny for colonies. But whenever they took the idea to Queen Elizabeth, she was like, Eh, why?

Now, to be clear, she was not against colonies. It just wasn't a priority. at the time. She was dealing with a lot of problems at home. The country was fresh from flip-flopping again from Catholic to Protestant. Plus, she didn't want to piss Spain off any more than she already had. War seemed imminent. Still, she knew that the New World would play a big factor in establishing England as a major world power. Plus, a colony would help England continue to disrupt Spanish shipping. Privateering. So, in 1584, Queen Elizabeth Graham, granted a soldier and explorer named Sir Walter Raleigh, a royal charter to establish an English colony.

Somewhere in the new world. Just make sure it's like far enough away from the Spanish. Let's not bother them. And Sir Walter Raleigh was like, great. What if there's people already living there? And Queen Elizabeth was like, well, if they aren't Christian, who gives a fuck? Oh, okay. That's not exactly what she said, but basic summary of what's going on.

So in April of 1584, Sir Walter Raleigh sent out an expedition to check out the American coastline and find a suitable location to set up their colony. In July, the ships arrived along the Outer Banks of North Carolina. And they found an island that looked perfect for a colony. They called it Roanoke Island, named after the Roanoke tribe that lived in the area. The tribes in the outer banks of North Carolina were Algonquian, just like the Powhatans in Virginia. However, they were not members of the Powhatan nation.

Besides the Roan Oaks, there was the Croatan, the Seekatan, and the Choanoke. Sound familiar, Kristen? A lot of these sound familiar. Yeah, so Choanoke, today in northeastern North Carolina, there's Chowan County, named after the Chowinoke. There's Chowan University named after the Chowinoke. Okay, you called it Croatan? Croatan, yeah.

Okay, there's the Croatan forest in North Carolina, and I remember driving through or by there quite a bit and thinking, man, if I wanted to dump a body somewhere. See, this is just free advice for any murderers who happen to be listening. Happy to help. I feel like I had a buddy that lived on Croatan Road. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Is that the end of the story? Yeah. Joe, please don't cut it. It's too good. It's too important. We've got to keep it. Okay. Don't me continue my story or not?

I do. So, the English arrive on Roanoke Island, and the first encounters between the English and the indigenous tribes were friendly. English didn't stay long. Remember, this was just kind of an exploratory voyage. But before they left, there was one more thing they wanted to do. How about we bring back some indigenous men to England? Learn their language.

Are you going to kidnap people? And use them to help raise money for future voyages. Okay. See, Kristen, the Spanish weren't the only ones to do this. Are they kidnapping people? Okay, so most evidence suggests that they were not kidnapped. They left on their own accord. But, you know.

Yeah, I think that, I mean, if we don't speak the same language and you invite me onto your ship, I'm not thinking I'm going to be there for months getting scurvy, and then I'm going to be like putting some display case over in jolly old England. Display case. That's what I'm guessing. So they brought back two young men named Mantio and Juan Cheese. The next year in April of 1585, the English returned to Roanoke Island, and they brought Manio and Juan Cheese back with them. They also brought scientists, soldiers, artists, engineers.

Their goal was to survey the area, map the territory, learn more about the indigenous tribes, and hey, maybe we'll find gold and silver. But things started off pretty bad. So on the way back to Roanoke Island, one of the English ships struck a shoal and basically wiped out their food supplies. Uh-oh! That sucks. And then when they landed at Roanoke Island, Juan Cheese abandoned the English and went back to his tribe, the Seagatan. and he told them these people cannot be trusted. Oh, okay.

So that's how you know that he didn't do this consensually. Possibly. How quickly did they hit that thing, that shoal, you said? What do you mean, how quickly did they hit that shoal? Well, didn't they just take off, they immediately hit the shoal, they lose all their food, they have to turn back around? Isn't that what you just said? No, no, no, no, no. They're almost to Roanoke Island, and then they hit the shoal.

They lose their food, and then they arrive at Roanoke Island. Oh, okay, okay. Okay. Oh, never mind. Never mind. Sorry. So, Wancheez is like, the English cannot be trusted. And Wanchees had always been skeptical of the English and their intentions on Roanoke.

In fact, Juan Cheese probably was not this guy's real name. Because roughly translated, that name simply means young boy. Oh, it definitely wasn't his real name. The 100 or so English settlers originally thought that they would be able to grow food. but they arrived a little too late in the season. So they were forced to rely on the local indigenous people for food. This made the leader of the colony, Ralph Lane, super paranoid. There is a genuine fear that Englishmen would abandon the colony and become savages.

Okay. Almost like they've been bitten by a zombie and they become a zombie. Okay, dude. Relations with the local tribes became strange. mainly due to the exposure of diseases like smallpox, but also because of severe overreaction by the English. One time, a silver cup went missing, and the English thought the Sikatan people had stolen it.

They freaking burned one of their villages to the ground. The people you're relying on for food? Yes. You dumbasses? So, yeah, it's pretty understandable why things got violent on Roanoke Island. It would have been shocking if it hadn't. These people are total freeloaders. They come over no food.

They've got one silver cup amongst them. They've evidently treated this young guy terribly, and they call him young boy. And now they're like, by the way, could we have food? Excuse me. No, I don't cough into a cave. I don't do that. I cough right into your face. Also, give me more food.

That's how we do it in England, baby. Norm, if you were abducted by some random other group of people, do you ever think of like what name they'd call you? What name they'd call me? Yeah, like putting yourself in this guy's shoes. Like, I'm wondering, would I be down in the history books as like, saggy-titted woman? Her name was saggy-titted woman. Well, I would say, like, my name is Norman. And then they would like observe my behavior.

And they would say, we believe Norman translated to pale and non-threatening. Oh, okay. You know. Bold of you to assume that they would be listening to what you said well enough to be like, oh, that's his name. Okay. So things were getting violent on Roanoke. Right. The English were starving.

the weather was terrible, and to make matters worse, there wasn't a scrap of gold or silver. What the hell? What a complete waste of time. Eventually, the English decided to abandon the colony, but not completely. About 15 men decided to stay behind at the fort

to protect Her Majesty's claim to the area. Well, a year later, the English came back to try to set up a colony again. And they were like, okay, here is the plan. We're going to sail to Roanoke Island. We're going to pick up those 15 boys that stayed behind, and then we're going to go north to the Chesapeake Bay, aka the Immaculate Conception Bay.

Oh, my God. I'm about to bust. AKA Powhatan Nation territory. The English hoped that the Chesapeake Bay area was better suited for a colony, and this time around women and children were on the voyage. What a fun summer vacation for the whole family. Oh, my God, this sounds terrible. It's terrifying.

Yes. But again, the colonists arrived late. They arrived near the end of the summer, late July, and the captain of the ships refused to carry them further north to the Chesapeake Bay. He was like, there is no time. The weather is going to get really bad. Your best bet is to set up here at Roanoke again. So they did. They went back to the old fort.

Remember those 15 guys who stayed behind last year? I do remember. They were gone. all they found was a skeleton Oh Probably not a good sign And violence started right away One settler went off alone

To look for crabs Because they're delicious And he was shot full of arrows By Sikatan warriors The English retaliated by attacking A Croatan village Oops wrong tribe Oh

So that made trading for food really hard Yeah I bet it will They ran low on food Tensions were high It was miserable. And in these terrible conditions, if you can believe it, a couple named Anonius and Eleanor Dare had a child. The first English child born in the New World,

and they named her Virginia Dare. Oh. Uh, not so fun fact. Virginia Dare's birth became super symbolic and important to the English. It gave them hope. A child born in the new world. But later in the 19th century, Virginia Dare became a symbol of white supremacy. Yep.

Yuck. In the 1920s, an anti-suffrage group commented that North Carolina should remain white in the name of Virginia Dare. Remain white? Remain white, baby. When was North Carolina ever white? Trick question. The answer is never. There's white people living there.

Yeah, that doesn't mean it's white. Also in Elizabeth City where I grew up Do you remember the Virginia Dere Hotel? Yeah, I do. The tallest building in Elizabeth City. It's not tall at all, folks. It's not that big, but it was to me. Anyway, it became clear to the Roanoke colonists

that they needed help. So the leader of the colony, a man named John White, he was like, okay, I'm going to go back to England and get more men, get more food, and if you have to abandon this area, just carve where you are going into a tree so I know where you are. Man, if I were him, I'd be like, you guys, I'm totally coming back. Don't even worry about it.

I'm thinking about you the whole time, the whole time, okay? Man, I feel like I'd be like, do you need some help, John? Can I come back with you? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I'd be like, this is a two-person job for sure. So John White left Roanoke in August of 1587. He made it back to England about three months later in November, and he assumed that he would load up on supplies and men and then sail back right away.

But oops, guess who was now officially at war, Kristen? Oh, England and Spain. England and Spain. That'll happen. King Philip II of Spain was fed up with Queen Elizabeth and her Protestant ways. So he decided he was going to invade England with his massive fleet of ships that he called the Spanish Armada. So when John White tried to organize ships to return to Roanoke and save the settlers, Queen Elizabeth was like...

Hell no, to the no, no, no, hell to the no. England needed all available ships and supplies to fight the Spanish. No exceptions. During the summer of 1588, the English pulled off a stunning upset and defeated the Spanish Armada in the English channel. And it was all thanks to a combination of bad weather, better tactics, better leadership, the use of fire ships to scatter the armada. So basically, they just set a ship on fire and then they just launched it into the enemy fleet. Oh, wow. And so all the ships were like, hey, get away from me. Sail the way, you know. So while Spain licked its wounds, John White was

finally able to sail back to Roanoke Island and rescue the colonists. He made it back. three years later. Oh my God. Of 1590. Well, no one's going to be there, right? Yeah. Unsurprisingly, the colonists were gone. And they carved into a tree.

Fuck you, John. Go fist yourself, John. The only clue were the words Croatan carved into a tree. Most historians believe the remaining settlers were captured by local tribes and sold as slaves. to tribes further inland.

Later, the English would claim that Chief Wahoon Seneca of the Powhatan Nation and Pocahontas' father had massacred the Roanoke colonists. Any evidence of that? No. I mean, honestly, hindsight being 2020, I probably should have massacred, like, right? Huh? As I said, hindsight being 2020, we know what the white folks are.

are going to do here, I mean, probably shouldn't just, you know, thrown a flamethrower at every ship. Am I right? A flamethrower, wow. Molotov cocktail. Get out of here. These are just free ideas. So besides that rumor that Chief Wahoon Seneca had massacred the Roanoke Colonists, there were also reports of white men living in a village called Pachracanic and was located in the Powhatan Nation of Seneca.

Perhaps a few Roanoke colonists managed to survive and move north. However, we have no evidence of any of it. It was all rumors. Ultimately, we still aren't really sure what happened to the colonists, hence why we refer to it as the lost colony. Oh, okay. Now, how many people were part of this lost colony? About 100 to 140. Wow, that's way more than I thought.

Okay. So, in 1603, Queen Elizabeth I first passed away. The Virgin Queen never married or had. had any children. So, who's going to take the throne? The new monarch of England is King James I. Hmm. King James I was the son of Mary Queen of Scots.

Oh. The great, great grandson of King Henry the seventh. Wow. Okay. When King James took the throne, the English and Spanish had been at war for 19 freaking years. And by this point, both sides were like, Yeah, I'm kind of tired of this. Can we just like stop? So, in 1604, the Anglo-Spanish war finally ended.

And now that England didn't have to focus on fighting the Spanish, King James I turned his attention to The New World. And here is why. Number one. England was ready to establish itself as a dominant world power. The privateering of Spanish vessels from the New World. over the years was very lucrative. And so England was like, well, instead of robbing the Spanish all the time, let's just go to the source of this wealth and make our own colony.

It was time for England to assert its rights to part of the wealth across the ocean. Number two, England was getting way too crowded. The population was now 4 million. It had shot up 28% in the past 40 years. Oh, wow. Which is pretty substantial for back then. Yeah. But one big reason why England felt crowded was because this was the beginning of privatized land.

So King James I first thought a colony could help with overpopulation, unemployment, and discontent among the plebs. Number three, religion. Even though the war between Spain and England was over, the fight for which religion would rule the world continued. The Spanish were spreading the Catholic religion. The English were spreading the Protestant religion. And look at all of those heathens. over in the new world, ripe for the taking. So, to get these colonies going, King James I started handing out royal charters.

Now, you might be saying, Kristen, hold up, wait a minute, something ain't right. What's that from? It's this YouTuber that does like parody news interviews. Okay. So you might be asking, what is a charter? Basically, a charter puts colonies in the hands of private companies. Oh.

Capitalism, baby. Ew. So wealthy dudes would buy shares and invest in these companies, but they took on all the cost. So they had to provide supplies, they had to provide ships, men, everything. If the colony succeeds, they made a lot of money. If it failed, they lost a lot of money. These colonies were set up in the name of England, but they weren't directly ruled by the king. They were allowed to self-govern.

So why didn't King James I? set up colonies himself. Why does he give out charters to companies? Didn't have the money to do it himself. Yeah, so it was considered a very risky venture, and England's not like rolling in dough to just throw money towards this idea. So, on April 10, 1606, King James I, slapped the Great Seal of England to the first Virginia charter. At that time, Virginia was the English name for all of the land ranging from modern-day North Carolina all the way up to Canada. They just called it all Virginia. This charter called for two settlements.

The first settlement was in the hands of the Plymouth Company, and they were going to form a colony near the Kennebec River in what is today the state of Maine. But that colony was quickly abandoned. Well, yeah, it's way too cold up there. It was super cold. They had terrible relations with the indigenous people. That didn't work out. Fun fact.

Wow. Wow. 12 years later, the Plymouth Company was revived and settled in a new area they called New England. Sound familiar? Plymouth Rock? Oh. I thought they were going to rebrand as L.L. Bean. Oh, wow.

Couldn't even get a hit on the soundboard there? Thank you. There you go. Is L.L. Bean based out of Maine? I don't think so. It just, you know, it seems like it's up there. Is L.L. Bean in Maine? Yeah, flagship store is in Maine. Oh, suck on that, everyone.

No one was doubting you. I figured it did because, like, that's how you came up with the joke. That's comedy, baby. So, the colony in Maine doesn't work out. Well, the other settlement for this Virginia charter was in the hands of the Virginia Company. The Virginia Company was being backed by some pretty wealthy Londoners. And hey, here is one of the things the Disney Pocahontas movie did well. Okay, let's hear it. The opening song in the film is called The Virginia Company. And the song goes, in 16007, we sail the open sea for glory God and gold in the Virginia Company.

For the new world is like heaven, and we'll all be rich and free. Or so we have been told by the Virginia. Company. Wow. What a hit. Pocahontas does have a good soundtrack. I'll give it that. Does it?

Yeah. I think Colors of the Wind is the only hit. I mean, that Virginia Company song, no one's like playing that. No one's got that on Shuffle. I've got it on my Spotify. You absolutely do not. Can you imagine if you had it on Shuffle and you had like people you didn't know very well in the car

had that song? No, I mean, they would just know I'm a Disney adult. It's like, oh, he's listening to the Pocahontas soundtrack. Oh, this guy's a total freak. He's a Disney adult. Now, if I was an Uber driver and that song came on, might weird some people out. No, no, because there are weird Uber drivers all the time. These things happen.

And honestly, if I was an Uber driver, I think I'd lean into the weird sometimes. How do you feel about Uber rides? Do you want the guy, do you want the driver to talk to you or do you not want the driver to talk to you? It depends on my mood, baby. But generally, no, I don't want to talk to anyone at any time. Yeah, I am firmly in the camp of, please don't look at me or speak to me. Yeah. I'm fine with the hello.

How is your flight? But besides that, I put my headphones in immediately. Wow, what a rude dude. He's just got to listen to the Pocahontas soundtrack all the time. Sorry, buddy. The Virginia Company song just came on. And he's like, say no more. What a great soundtrack.

Yeah, one time in Portland, I put my headphones on, and the driver just kept talking to me, just didn't see I had headphones in, so I had to keep taking them off. I think he was messing with you, and I am here. I kind of love it. And I didn't say anything because I'm a non-threatening boy. I just kept talking to him.

He was like, this guy. He's not going to do shit. He's going to hate this. I'm going to keep talking. I'm going to ask him some questions, and he's going to suffer. And it was a long ride, too. I bet it was.

In December of 1606, more than 100 men set out for the new world on three ships. The Susan Constant, the Godspeed. The Susan Constant? That was the name of the ship. Sorry. The Susan Constant, the Godspeed, and the discovery. How about the Eileen Fisher? So ridiculous.

The SS Jenna Marbles. What's wrong with Susan Constan? I don't know. It just sounds like somebody's aunt, you know? So on these ships were a variety of people. There were upper class boys ready to gobble up as much golden silver as possible. Apparently they thought it was just sitting around in piles on the shore. Sure.

Like giant money bags just sitting by the tree. Well, I'm sure there was like a lot of propaganda to get these guys on these ships. They probably thought it was like animal crossing. You're just like, whoop, got it. But you also had lower class people like laborers, carpenters, bricklayers, blacksmiths, preachers, and soldiers. And there was one soldier in particular that would have a huge impact on this colony. And his name was John Smith. Yes.

According to Disney, John Smith was tall, blonde, Clean-shaven Muscular Sexy Single and ready to mingle Oh, hello ladies Well he was single But John Smith was actually

Short Full beard Twirled mustache Twirled mustache It was a look at the time Okay John Smith was only 26 years old When he joined the Virginia Company

to set up a colony in the new world. But he had lived quite a life so far. John Smith grew up educated. His parents were farmers. When he was a teenager, he wanted to be a sailor. In his cute little sailor suit. But his dad was like, no way, man, and made him an apprentice to a local merchant instead.

But after his dad died, John Smith was like, see ya, and he ran away to become a soldier of fortune, a. A.k.a. a mercenary. John Smith fought with the English and the Dutch against Spain during the war. And then he traveled to Eastern Europe, where Christian soldiers of the Holy Roman Empire were fighting the Muslim Ottoman Turks. During that time, he was captured on the battlefield and sold as a slave.

But he miraculously escaped and found his way back to England. Holy shit. Yeah. Future topic? John Smith's exploits really impressed the wealthy backers of the Virginia company. So he was recruited to join this adventure to the new world. John Smith was definitely a good choice. He had a ton of military experience.

He was well-traveled. But he maybe didn't really get along with everybody. Uh-oh. Because about halfway through the journey across the Atlantic, he was getting a little toad. What do you have a toad about? He was having arguments with the captain of the ship, Christopher Newport.

Captain Christopher Newport was a notorious privateer. He had raided a ton of Spanish ships back in the day. His reputation got him a job with the Virginia Company. We aren't really sure what John Smith and Christopher Newport were arguing about. Captain Newport was the captain of the ship, so he had authority. Yeah. He accused John Smith of trying to start a mutiny and had him arrested and locked up. Oh.

John Smith expected to be hanged. Hmm, I don't remember this in the Disney movie. No. Anyway, in April of 1607, about four months after the ships had left England, sailors spotted the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. Hurrah! And with that, it was time for the unsealing of the orders. What's that mean?

Kristen, if you can believe it, the procedures for establishing the colony were not looked at until the ships had reached the new world. It's like something from a reality TV show. Like for the drama of it all. Yes. I respect it. Okay.

It's like episode of Survivor. Yeah. Or something. Or even like Squid Game where they like revealed the rule like new rules as the game went along. You had it perfectly at Survivor. Okay. Sorry.

Okay. No Jeff Probst on the boat though. That's a shame. John Smith wins immunity. Don't make fun of my show. Everyone. This past. Last week, Norm did something unforgivable.

He came in to the bedroom where I was watching Survivor and he was like, haven't you already seen this episode? And I had to be like, sir, how many times have you watched every episode of Kitchen Nightmares? God damn. I know. And I was like, man, I am the biggest hypocrite right now because it's true. My current obsession is now Restaurant Impossible. There are 22 seasons on Max and I am going through them all, baby.

You love a big, angry fella telling people that they're running their restaurant into the grab. Absolutely. There is nothing you love more. Robert Irvine, Gordon Ramsey, and John Taffer. Oh, my God. The Holy Trinity. Yeah, they are just big, angry white dudes. Just so fired up.

Yeah, John Taffer looks like an earthworm. It's like if lowly worm was on steroids. That's true. And ran a bar. Anyway, so you might be wondering, why did they wait to reveal these orders? Why don't they know all this stuff ahead of time? Well, they were kept secret because of how damn long the voyage was from England to the new world. And they wanted to mitigate power struggles or mutiny during the journey.

Oh. So they're like, if nobody knows who's in charge, then there's less likely to be like a riot. Okay. So once they spotted the Chesapeake Bay, the settlers opened. up the orders. And here is what was inside. Number one, find out what happened to the lost colony. Oh, okay. The English were still trying to find answers as to what happened to the settlers at Roanoke Island. Perhaps they made their way to the Chesapeake Bay. Number two, look for natural resources. This included gold and silver, although the English

weren't super optimistic about finding anything because they didn't find anything in North Carolina. But it did include things like furs, exotic animals, and fish, and plants. Number three. Find a passage to India. Best of luck. The English weren't really sure how big the new world was, or where all the rivers led. Uh-huh. Hey, maybe one of them leads to the Indian sea.

Yeah, maybe. That would be pretty sweet. Uh-huh. That would make the trade industry between England and India explode. Number four, explore and map out the new world. Learn about the land, the rivers, the creeks. Map it all out. Okay, thanks, bye.

Number five, instructions on how to treat the naturals. The naturals? The indigenous people. Oh, excuse me. So for years, the English had been reading books from both Spanish and English explorers that contained reports on indigenous people, or savages, as they, would call them. Books like Decades of the New World and Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffics, and Discoveries of

the English Nation. Jesus Christ, that sounds terrible. A New York Times bestseller. That's one. You read the first chapter, you read the last chapter, and you just kind of nod along when other people are talking about it. You're like, mm, yep. Yeah, my favorite part was when he talked about the passages.

I loved it when he mentioned the. the principal navigations. That was really cool. Some of these books were pretty outlandish. There were wild tales of kidnapping native women from their savage tribes. But it actually wasn't really kidnapping. Wait, who was kidnapping the native women? English and Spanish.

Oh, so they're bragging about it? Yeah, but they weren't really kidnapping them, Kristen, because they actually wanted to be captured. These women. Oh, God. And they were super horny. Oh, okay. Yeah. Some men who had, quote, carnal relations with Native women found it hard to, quote, satisfy their appetite.

Okay, great. Yeah. So there's probably no doubt that some of the men on the ships in the Chesapeake Bay fantasized about this type of thing. But the English had also learned hard lessons from the failures of the Roanoke colony. And the number one thing they learned was colonies could not survive without help from indigenous people. Yeah. Ain't going to happen. I got to say, there is something I do love about these guys getting on these ships for God knows how long, stinking like hell,

scared out of their wits about scurvy because there's not a lemon in sight. But they are just keeping hope alive because they are convinced that they are going to hit this new world where there's gold bars everywhere and the horniest women you ever did see. The horniest, Kristen. They are so horny. They are just hoping you arrive. Don't even bother with a shower, boys. Just get on over here.

Ugh. Disgusting. But they won't be able to satisfy him, Kristen. Yeah, yeah. Their appetite is enormous. So, rather than do what the Spanish did, which was genocide. Yeah. The English wanted to learn from a.

indigenous people. They knew how to use the land. Back in Roanoke, the colonists were amazed by their ingenuity, their houses, their archery, their fishing, their navigating skills, how they grew food, where to get water. But it wasn't just a matter of, hey, teach us how to do this. The English wanted to harness the labor of indigenous people. They wanted to give them an opportunity to work. Then they could join the English, and they could become Christian, and pay taxes. And they could to the king. Let's make this land more productive for England. Isn't that great, Kristen? No, and I reject all this like, we actually really respect. We love what you're doing here. We're totally into it. How about you do a bunch of extra work for me? Yeah. Interestingly, the English

compared indigenous people to themselves. Because back in the day, the Romans had subjugated the English, but maybe they forgot that the English resisted the Romans for decades. decades, you know? Isn't that strange? So this is a hurt people, hurt people except... Well, it's weird that the English were like, oh man, indigenous people were just like us when the Romans came and conquered us. But it's also, they expected the indigenous people to just be like, yeah, we'll show you how to do all this and we're going to work for you, no problem. Forgetting that when the Romans invaded England, British people resisted it for decades. Right.

So it's like, don't you expect indigenous people are going to. resist you when you come in and be like, hey, work this land for us. No, because they don't respect indigenous people. Yeah. Okay. So the colonists have their instructions now. It was time to find out who King James I and the Virginia Company had selected to be on the official council of the new colony.

This was basically pay for play, Kristen. Okay. The wealthy people with the most status were selected. Shocking. And one of the men selected for the council was John Smith? Hmm. Hey, weren't we going to hang him for starting a mutiny?

Uh-huh. Also selected Captain Christopher Newport. Of course. That's going to be awkward. Well, thanks to that seat on the council, John Smith was spared death. But he was still under arrest until they could have a trial. Each member of the council had to swear an oath of allegiance to King James I. And to the best of their ability, carry out the orders for the new colony.

And then they had to vote on a governor. And the council chose Edward Wingfield. Wingfield? Wingfield. Nice. Solid choice. Edward Wingfield was much older than the rest of the group, but he was well qualified. He was a former soldier, lawyer, member of parliament, and one of the main backers of the Virginia company.

He was instrumental in raising money and recruiting people for this venture. Now, according to the Disney Pocahontas movie, the first governor of Jamestown was John Ratcliffe. Nope. He was Edward Wingfield. John Ratcliffe was a real man. He was a former sea captain who was also on the council. And he would eventually become the second governor of Jamestown. Oh, okay.

But more on that later. My theory is that the last name Ratcliffe sounds evil. so they chose him to be the villain in the Disney movie. It does sound pretty evil. Yeah. Fun fact. Wow. Wow.

President-elect Donald Trump just chose a guy named John Ratcliffe to be our new CIA director. Really? Yeah. Oh, boy. You know, you know, the last name, if you have rat in your last name, I'm not saying you're evil. I mean, think of Mr. Ratburn from the Arthur cartoon. He was awesome. I can't believe you remember these cartoons so well.

I've got nothing for you. You got to catch up on your Arthur. No, I don't because I'm 39 years old. Okay. I'll watch Arthur alone then. I'll just be a grown man with no kids watching Arthur alone. Mm-hmm. With the lights turned down.

My great grandma loved Arthur as well. And when I was a kid, she would call me and we would talk about the episodes that aired that week. What do you mean she loved Arthur as well? My great grandma, Betty, watched PBS. Uh-huh. And she really liked Arthur. Love, she loved you. Well, I know she loved me.

No, she was watching that so she could have something to talk about with you because you loved it. You think so? Of course. Wow. Of course. That's sweet. It is sweet. It never really occurred to me.

It never occurred to me until just this moment. Of course. I miss her. She was a character as well. I have lots of stories about her too She was the one who was very proud of how she looked, right? She was. Yeah, I love that.

My mom said she would, like my mom would be in the front yard of her house, like, playing in the sprinkler, and my great-grandma would come out in a bikini and brag about her measurements to my mom who was like eight years old. A little strange, but hey, you know. Yeah. Well, and the reason she was. bragged was so my great grandma was a nurse her whole her whole life yeah and she worked in new york city and i guess one time she was the nurse for gloria swanson yeah and of course she looked at gloria swanson's chart and realized she had the exact same measurements did they

measure people back in the day well i think like just height and weight and my grandma betty was like Ooh, I'm just like Gloria Swanson. Good for Grandma. She never forgot it. And never stopped talking about it. Exactly. Anyway, on April 26, 1607, the Susan Constant, the Godspeed, and the Discovery ships pulled into the Chesapeake Bay, the English de-boarded. Their first job was to find a suitable place for the settlement.

Now, let's compare this to Disney's Pocahontas movie. In the movie, Governor Ratcliffe, who we now know was. not the first governor of Jamestown. He orders his men to immediately start digging for gold. In reality, the English definitely were going to look for gold, but that was not a priority

when they first landed. Right. And as the men dug for gold, tall, sexy blonde John Smith, voiced by Mel Gibson, by the way. Ew, really? Your favorite actor, Kristen. No. Star of Daddy's Home, too.

He goes off alone to explore the wilderness and look for savages. In reality, John Smith could not have done this because he was still under arrest in chains on the ship. Oh. Anyway, while John Smith is exploring the wilderness, he encounters a beautiful young native woman named Pocahontas, and there's an instant attraction.

Sparks are flying. Oh, yeah. And they learn about each other's language and their lives. Pocahontas teaches John Smith how to say hello in the Powhatan language. John Smith shows Pocahontas his helmet, and the two are kind of flirtatious. Oh. And then Pocahontas sings to him about painting with the colors of the wind. In reality, John Smith and Pocahontas would not meet for almost a year.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough, Pocahontas was 10 years old at the time. Oh! Oh, I completely forgot. I repeat. When the English landed in the Chesapeake Bay in 1607, Pocahontas was 10 years old. Gross, sound the alarm. Get Mel Gibson away from that child. And that makes the whole Disney romance creepy as fuck.

Yeah. This is that fetishizing I'm talking about. Ew. Also, Chief Wahoon Center. would not have allowed his 10-year-old daughter to go out alone to explore. Right. Especially knowing that a new group of Europeans had arrived on his land. Yeah.

Who. Yuck. Yuck. It makes you see the movie in a whole new way when you know that fact. Yeah, that's nasty. So, as we learned in the last episode, Chief Wahoon Seneca of the Powhatan Nation was taking the... wait and see approach with the English.

Surely they would leave. Everyone else who explored the area usually left. But this didn't mean there wasn't any violence. The Chesapeake tribe decided maybe the English needed a little encouragement to leave. They encountered them on their first day and shot at them with arrows, wounding a few settlers. My land! I wasn't expecting that. It's one of my favorites.

In hindsight, the English were incredibly fortunate that Wahoon Seneca chose to wait. He could have easily gathered his warriors and crushed the English as they got off their boats. But Wahun Seneca also feared that doing something like that would cause the English to come back with a vengeance. Remember, the Spanish had done it years earlier. After that rough first day, the English continued looking for a spot to set up their settlement. Four days later, they met another tribe from the Powhatan Nation, the Kikatan, led by chief Wahoon Seneca's son, Pochin. This time, there was no violence, just friendly interaction. It's possible Wahun Seneca ordered his son to just gather information.

Yeah. Who are they? How many were there? What are they doing here? What kind of weapons do they have? From there, the English made their way into the Paspahey territory. Once again, it was a friendly meeting. The Pospahey-Werowance, Wohencha-Punk, made the English a feast and talked with them extensively.

The language barrier may have caused some issues. Wau-Winchapunk was under the impression the English were just visiting, not looking to permanently settle. So he was friendly with them. But on May 13th, Wau-Wunchapunk learned otherwise. The English had found a peninsula in the Pazpahe territory that they thought was perfect for their settlement. It was uninhabited. It was far up river and around a bend. I call once more just around the river bend. So because it was up river and around the river bend, it made it out of sight from the Chesapeake Bay in enemy ships. So it was a good defensive spot. Of course, if the English

had consulted with Wynchapunk, he could have told them that peninsula sucked ass. It was super swampy with tons of mosquitoes and terrible water. Wait, how did they not know that right off the bat? Well, it was springtime, maybe. Oh, okay. Yeah, you catch it on a good day. You don't notice that swampass. It's like when you go look at a house and had a good showing, then you move in.

Hmm, there's blood on the walls. I didn't notice that before. Yeah. Thought it was an accent wall. Also, there was a reason the Paspeje people didn't have a village there. It was in their territory. They didn't have a village there. That is a good point.

Maybe a reason why. Yeah. Wouldn't you think that all the good spots would be taken? Yeah. If there's like a really obvious spot that seems so great. There's a reason he's single, folks. The English brought in their ships and started unloading their supplies to build a fort. They called their settlement, Jamestown, after King James I.

When Woonchapunk heard from scouts that the English were building a fort, he was like because this was chief Wahoon Seneca and the Powhatan Nation's greatest fear under no circumstances should the English be allowed to permanently settle.

Yeah, we're open to tourism but we don't want you to stay. Look, we'll give you a fast pass and then you can check out the villages. You can skip the line. Yep, yep. But then you got to go home at the end of the day. You got to go.

A couple of days later, we'll winchapunk in 100 Pospat Paspeje warriors showed up at Jamestown, fully armed. But they also came with a gift, a big-ass-deer to feast on. Well, Winchapunk hoped to feed the English and convince them to pack up their shit and leave. Kill them with kindness. The English were on high alert. They drew their guns on the Paspeje people. Well, Winchapunk asked them to put down their guns. He had come in peace with offerings of food, but the English refused. This was part of their orders. that they read on the ship.

Always be armed and ready when talking with native people. The Pospahaye decided to avoid further conflict, and we're basically like, okay, whatever, keep your guns drawn. We're just here to eat. And with that, the festivities began. Ooh, things got real bad real quick, though. Okay. During the feast, a Pospahe warrior was admiring a settler's hatchet.

And I guess the settler thought he was trying to steal his hatchet. So he took that hatchet and slashed at the man's arm. Oh. Another Paspeje warrior retaliated and hit the Englishman with his wooden club, and then a brawl broke out. But the English had the upper hand because many of them were wearing metal armor. It was extremely effective against the Paspeg's wooden clubs and arrows. So Waw Winchipunk rallied his men and they fled into the woods. Undoubtedly, Chief Wahoon Seneca heard about this skirmish.

Perhaps Pocahontas heard about it too as she sat with her father in his large Yehekin hut, And I'm sure she was terrified about what might happen to her people. Chief Wahoon Seneca was done with the wait and see approach. Yeah. About a week later on May 26th, the Powhatan Nation retaliated. A group of around 200 warriors from the Appomatic, Weyanaac, Pashbae, Kiyokhanak, and the Chisciak tribes attacked Jamestown. It was enough men to overwhelm the defenders. But gun and cannon fire from a ship docked near the settlement,

was deadly. The bullets and shrapnel cut through the indigenous warriors, and they had to retreat. Chief Wahoon Seneca had to adjust his strategy. The English firepower was just too much. So he took a new tactic. He would make the lives of the English settlers miserable. I love this. What's he do? If any settlers left Jamestown, his warriors would be hiding in the woods, ready to attack, where the cannon and gunfire couldn't hit them, and the English could forget about trading for food. By June 15th, the English had finished building their settlement. It was a triangular fort with artillery and guns at the corners for defense.

Inside the fort was a church, a storehouse, a marketplace, basic streets, small fields for crops. But the colonists were feeling the weight of Chief Wahun Senica's new tactic. It became very dangerous to leave Jamestown. Several men died attempting to navigate a river or fine trade. The colonists felt extremely isolated. The Jamestown Council were now all hands on deck, and they thought, you know who could really help us right now in this situation? That 10-year-old girl, Pocahontas. John Smith.

Oh, okay. So in June of 1607, John Smith was cleared of all charges and was finally allowed to debaward the ship and join the Jamestown. He'd been on the ship the whole time. The whole time. Oh, terrible. His scurvy was probably terrible. His butthole probably itched. Is that a symptom of scurvy?

Or is that just a thing that was probably happening? I'm just imagining he's chained up and his butthole starts itching. And he's like, fuck, this thing is so bad. And I can't scratch it. And he's like trying to find a loose board or plank where he can get the corner and scratch the buckle. And just pray he doesn't splinter himself. Sure. Yeah.

So the Jamestown Council is united. They assess the situation, and it was not good. They didn't have enough supplies to last the winner. And, hey, what is up with these savages? They're not behaving like the book said they would. Yeah, weird. They don't want to fuck us. And they're not giving us any free food.

No one. So what do you do? Well, the Reverend of Jamestown thought, conversion is the solution. What? Mm-hmm. You thought you were showing up to a free buffet that was run by horny women, and you're definitely not there. So you think instead, oh, I'm just going to force people to go along with my weird religion? Well, to be fair, not everybody thought that's what it was going to be.

Norman. What? How many dudes signed up for this? About 100 dudes. And you're telling me they weren't the least bit interested. I'm saying some of them definitely came over, probably, because they were like, oh, yeah, the ladies are going to love me over there. They say that these ladies haven't been satisfied. Yeah.

So the Reverend of Jamestown wrote, even here, where Satan's throne is. Okay. Lord, let our labor be blessed in laboring for the conversion of the heathen. That should definitely solve everything, Kristen. I love the smugness as he's starving. Well, John Smith had a better idea. He understood that the English had to find a way to trade with the local tribes. There were a lot of tribes in the area.

Surely one of them would be willing to trade with the English. John Smith also wanted to fight back. But that was easier said than done. The English may have been safe by the fort, but in the wilderness, their guns and armor were impractical. Remember, these were old timey guns. They were huge. They had to be propped up on something, the fire. Oh, yeah.

And the armor was heavy, and it's the summertime. So, you know, hot and humid, it would feel wearing a big hunkin' piece of armor. Well, yeah, you're eventually going to rust shut. You're going to be, like, just right in place. Imagine the smell. Oh, God. Ew! Yeah, it'd be terrible.

So the English strategy became, we're going to stay safe in the fort. We're going to trade with whoever we can. Yeah. We're going to send some people back to England for supplies, and we're just going to hope for the best. On Monday, June 22nd, 1607, two months after their arrival, Captain Christopher Newport loaded up two ships, the Susan Constant and the Godspeed, and headed back to England for supplies. 104 colonists remained in Jamestown, and they were on their own. Did he take another three years in England, just slowly? gathering up supplies.

No, it wasn't like that. One tea bag at a time, please. Chief Wahoon Seneca's strategy seemed to be working because things at Jamestown were real bad. Yeah. The colonist provisions were, quote, scanty and unappetizing.

Each person got half a pint of wheat and barley boiled in water per day. Oh, gross. Basically porridge. Yeah. One person wrote that it contained as many worms as grains. Okay. Hmm, protein.

Slimy yet satisfying. Then there were problems with the council. Edward Wingfield, the governor, was growing increasingly unpopular. He had reserved two gallons of alcohol for communion at church and refused to let anyone drink it. You're in this shitty situation. Some alcohol would really make you relax a little bit. All you want to do is get drunk. No, it's for the church. Do not touch that.

Yeah, I get it. Like, if I were him, I would have drank it myself. Well, there were accusations of that. That's totally what I would do. You're abusing your power, Kristen. Yeah, because life sucks. I just ate worms for dinner, and now I've got my whiskey breath, and I'm telling everyone I love them. That's what I would do. Well, how about this? The colonists went to Edward Wingfield, and they were like, We are starving.

And Edward Wingfield was like, well, why don't you just go hunting fish for some food? Oh, come on, Edward. You know that's going to get everybody killed, right? Yeah, leaving the fort was very dangerous. Yeah. And then a bunch of accusations and name-calling ensued. Edward Wingfield is an atheist. And he's hiding food from us.

And also I heard he's a spy for the Spanish. Oh. So the Jamestown Council voted his. ass out. Like literally out? Like you gotta leave Jamestown? He was arrested and thrown into jail

on the last remaining ship The Discovery. Oh God. You're out of here, buddy. So now the council had to select a new leader. And this time, they chose. You already know this, but

John Ratcliffe. But that wasn't the end of the drama on the council. Because another member, George Kendall, was accused of being a Spanish spy. He was tried and found guilty, sentenced to death. John Ratcliffe signed the order of execution, but before they carried it out,

George Kendall argued that the order was null and void because John Ratcliffe was not who he said he was. Who was he? Isn't that right? John Sicklemore. What are you talking about? Well, unfortunately for George Kendall, there was no scandal behind John Ratcliffe's name change. His name was originally John Sickle. more. But when his father died, John took his stepfather's last name, which was Ratcliffe.

That's the most boring scandal I've ever heard. I was really hoping for something. I was hoping that he tossed John Ratcliffe overboard. And no one had noticed. And he's like, no, oh, what's that piece of paper say? John Ratcliffe's super important? Well, that's me. He's dead now. So George Kendall argued that John Ratcliffe was basically an imposter. And so his execution order was not valid. Oh. But then another member of the council, John Martin, was like, okay, well, I'll just sign the execution order.

George Kendall was eventually executed by firing squad. He was the very first person executed by capital punishment in British North America. Isn't that a fun fact? Wow. Wow. What was his big crime again, though? Spanish spy. But was he really?

We're not sure. that was the accusation Okay So let's see what we've got We have We've got a lack of food Yep Hostilities with the Powhatan Nation

Infighting among leadership Hmm Spanish spies Maybe we don't give a ding to that Give half a ding There we go Oh and here's a fun one Bad water

No, God! No, God! Please, no! No! They were in the swamp land, right? They were in the swamp land. Yeah. The Jamestown colonists had been drinking bad water full of parasites, and they were contracting salt poisoning. What's salt poisoning? Drinking water full of salt.

Your body can only take so much salt. That's true. People were now dying every few days from the bloody flux, also known as diarrhea. Oh, God. Probably dysentery more like it, but by the end of the summer, those 104 remaining Jamestown colonists were reduced in half. Death by diarrhea.

What a way to go. John Smith later wrote, If it had not pleased God to have put terror in the savage hearts, we had all perished by those wild and cruel pagans, being in weakened estate as we were. It's not their fault. You came to their house. God bless those pagans.

These entitled douchebags. I mean, John Smith's basically like, whew, thank God, God didn't give them the idea to come slaughter us. Thank God they are pagans. Anyway. Well, I don't get it, though. Like, I thought he was saying, how dare they not help us? No, he's saying, thank God they didn't come slaughter us because we were so weak.

Oh. But he, you know, he insulted them at the same time. Okay, yeah, you can do both at the same time. That's fun. I don't know if I had to choose between a quick death with a bunch of arrows versus death by diarrhea after eating my worm porridge for months on end, I might go for the arrows. The worm porridge is not sounding good.

No hot sauce. You can't spice it up. Nope, nope. I think, honestly, if it were me, I would consider it. just like abandoning James Town. Where are you going to go? I would just take my chances with a Powhatan Nation tribe and be like, please, take me. Can't you see I'm non-threatening?

Where are the women? I've got something they're going to want to see. I heard all the women are hoardy over here. They haven't looked at me twice. I've been lied to. Is it because I have nonstop diarrhea? Yeah, and the power team would be like, this guy stinks.

Oh, God. He's pathetic. He's crying. I think he shat himself. And yet, he's so sexy. There's something about him. There's just something about him. The women are going to love him.

Okay, but so all these terrible things are happening. But there are signs of hope. John Smith was able to find a tribe that would consistently trade with him. Okay. The Chickahominy. The Chickahominy were technically part of the Powhatan Nation, but they were fiercely independent. They did not allow Chief Wahun Seneca to assign a werewans to their tribe. And to keep the peace, they just paid tribute to him.

The Chickahominy had no reason to hate the English yet. And they were really interested in their metal tools and glass. In exchange, they gave the English corn, lots and lots of corn. During the fall of 1607, John Smith went up the Chickahominy River three times to trade with the Chickahominy. And not only that, but birds migrating gave the Jamestown settlers plenty of things to hunt from the safety of the fort. Things seemed to be stabilizing, but the English weren't out of the woods yet. In December of 1607, John Smith decided to travel up the Chickahominy River a fourth time to secure more corn for Jamestown. but he also wanted to do a little bit of exploring.

John Smith wondered where the Chikahominy River ended. Perhaps it opened up to a lake. Or better yet, the Indian Sea. What an idiot! Oh, what a loser! So John Smith, seven colonists and two friendly native guides got to a shallop, which is a small sailboat, not to be confused with a shallot, which is a small onion.

Thank you. And they took off up the Chichohominy. river. They traveled way further than usual, and eventually they were past the safety of the Chickahominy territory. Eventually, John Smith and his crew reached a point in the river where it split into a creek, which is known today as White Oak Creek or White Oak Swamp. The boat was too big for the creek, so John Smith ordered a couple of men to stay with the boat, and the others, including the two native guides, join me in this canoe, and we're going to keep exploring the creek. So they go up the creek in the canoe, and eventually they reached the end of it. So John Smith again splits up his party.

He and the native guide are going to go out on foot and explore the countryside, and these other two guys, you stay with the canoe. As John Smith and his guide explored the countryside, they were ambushed by a Pamunkey hunting party. John Smith immediately grabbed his guide and put a flintlocked pistol into his back. Oh. Threatening to kill the guide if they did anything, and the two slowly backed away. But John Smith wasn't paying attention. to what was behind him. He slipped and fell down a muddy embankment along with the guide. At the bottom, cold, covered in mud, and surrounded, John Smith finally surrendered. Smith would later learn that the Pamunkey hunters had also killed the Englishmen that were

watching the canoe back at the creek. Oh. The guide explained to the Pamunkey that John Smith was some sort of leader for the English. He was an important guy. John Smith was tied up and taken to the Pamunkey Warewans. It was a man named Opie Cheney. Chanquino. He was the brother of Chief Wahoon Seneca. Okay. Pocahontas's uncle. John Smith was convinced he was going to die. No one was coming to rescue him. Yeah. So he tried to be friendly. He offered Opie Chancono his ivory compass as a sign of goodwill. But Opie Chanquino didn't plan on killing John Smith. He knew he was an important guy. So he was kept under guard. He was given bread and venison while he awaited his fate. Over a few years,

days, negotiations took place. John Smith fed Opie Chan-Kineau bullshit. He claimed he had curative water back in Jamestown. Had what? Curative water. Okay. So, hey, just let me go back to Jamestown, and I'll get you some curative water. Oh, it definitely won't give you explosive diarrhea. Yeah. We're definitely not experiencing that at James Town. Well, what do you think Opie Chan Kenow said? Hell no Hell no To the no No

Opie Chanquino wanted information Specifically He wanted John Smith To tell him The best way to attack Jamestown In return

He offered John Smith Land and Wealth But John Smith refused That couldn't have been a real offer Right We don't know I have to say That much of this information

comes from John Smith So keep that in mind. Okay. Meanwhile, Chief Wahoon Seneca was being kept abreast about the situation. First time I've written abreast. And not ciggled. More than likely, he consulted with the Chiakros priests about what to do.

And their suggestion, take John Smith on a little guided tour of the Powhatan Nation. Was he on a segue? We don't know. So why do this? It's because the Powhatan Nation had serious fear. about the English. And the Chiacros wanted to take that fear away by parading John Smith around as a prisoner.

Oh. So John Smith was taken to villages of the Pamunchi tribe, the Yuktanun tribe, the Rappahannics. And the visit to the Rappahannock village was a pretty interesting one because a few years earlier, a European explorer killed the Rappahannic Warrows. Wow.

And so the Rappahannic people were like, is John Smith the same guy that killed our Warawans. And John Smith was super nervous. Yeah. But luckily, the Rappahannics looked at him and they were like, eh, no, that's not the same guy. This guy's way too short. Oh, got him. Oh, sometimes it pays to be a short king.

That's right. Well, finally, John Smith reached the end of his guided tour, the capital village of Wehrulcomoco. It was time to meet the man himself. Chief Wahoon Seneca, and he would decide John Smith's fate. John Smith was taken into Wahun Seneca's Yehakin, one of the largest in the village, and there sat chief Wahun Seneca, dressed in long chains of beads and pearls, an extravagant fur robe. He was surrounded by his wives, his children, like Pocahontas, his advisors, the Chiacros.

This was most likely the first time. Pocahontas laid eyes on John Smith. John Smith, of course, didn't understand why there were so many people in the room or how Powhatan life worked. He referred to Wahoon Seneca's wives as his, quote, wenches. Oh. Chief Wahoon Seneca began by questioning John Smith. Why were the English here?

What did they want? And John Smith lied. He was like, oh, we're just here temporarily. We're hiding from the Spanish. As soon as Captain Newport gets back, we are heading out. But Chief Wahoon Seneca was smarter than that. He did not buy that at all. Because he knew the colonists still had a third ship, the discovery.

Yeah. And it was sitting in the Chesapeake Bay. And so he said, well, why don't you just fucking leave on that ship? Right. John Smith lied again. He said the discovery was leaking and it had to be repaired. What happened next comes from the only source we have on this encounter. John Smith. According to John Smith, they had a great feast of venison, bread, stew, wild turkey.

This was part of a ritual where the Powhatan would have a prisoner of war put to death. Oh. John Smith's execution was going to be the after-dinner entertainment. Oh, shit. Chief Wahun Senica met with the Chiakros priests. They brought out a large stone and placed it in the center of the room. John Smith's head was laid onto one of the stones. Oh my God.

Chanting from the crowd and drum noises filled the room. Powhatan warriors came forward and raised their clubs ready to deliver the death blows. But before they could start the clubbing, Pocahontas threw herself onto John Smith. Really? And she begged her father to spare him. Chief Wahoon Seneca was so moved by this act from his favorite daughter that he changed his mind. John Smith would be spared

on the next episode of an old timey podcast Oh, don't do it to me, Norm. Okay. I will tell you why that story is total bullshit and I'll tell you what actually happened. It did sound too good to be true

but it was really cool. Yeah, it was in the Disney movie too. I mean, yeah. Oh, Norm, well done. Thank you. Love it. Love it. I can't wait to find find out how wrong we've been all along.

I was seriously sitting here like, oh my God, no way, that's so cool. This little 11-year-old girl is like, no, Papa, no. Romanticized version of Polka-Hontas. Oh, shit that didn't happen. Damn, damn, damn. So we'll learn what actually happened when he met Chief Wauuncena. I'll explain kind of why that whole story of her throwing herself on John Smith was probably bullshit. Yeah, in fairness, when you say it like that, it does feel kind of embarrassing that I went along with it.

Well, case in point. It's a good story. It's a great story. It's very dramatic. Yeah. We love the drama. Mm-hmm. We love the unsealing of the envelope after a long journey to find out who's leading this group of people. Well, and also, I'm going to go into all this in the next episode, but it was that thing of like, look at these savages, they like brutally murder the English. But this one good native woman rescues us from the heathens.

A couple of good ones. Mm-hmm. All right, great. Well, don't tell us anymore, Norm. We've got to wait. And we've actually got to wait a little while because you and I are off for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving break. baby. That's right. We're going to go have Thanksgiving with the family. I can't wait to come back

and tell all the stories. I was talking to my mom on the phone and she told me something hilarious my grandma did. I can't go into the specifics. But I was like, ooh, can't wait to tell that story on the podcast. And my mom was like, don't tell that on the podcast. And I was joking that she would need to have me sign an NDA before I showed up for Thanksgiving. It's true. It's true. Well, you know, writing this episode, I'm like, man, should I have just called this, like, the story of Jamestown?

Because, man, I feel like I haven't talked about Pocahontas that much. You're world building, sir. You're doing what I was just teasing you about. You're giving us the context, but also the context, and then the context. And that's what we need for this story. I feel like you're making fun of me right now I'm teasing a little but you know I love it

It makes for a good story Okay Yeah All right Well the next episode Will definitely be Majority about Pocahontas Okay

Actually the rest of the episodes Will be about Pocahontas Listen as long as it's an entertaining tale We're here for it buddy All right Well should we wrap up this episode Yeah I've got some reviews I'd like to read to you sir

Oh yes Yes My favorite part Okay. So last week, I had a lot of fun reading some very concise reviews from people who wanted to give us those five-star reviews, wanted to support the show. But they were short on time, okay? Right. They are in line at Subway. Yep. And they were being asked, what do you want on your sandwich? Well, I found a very long review that I really enjoyed that I'd like to read to you now. And then I've got two more that are just, you know, a little different. Okay. Okay. Here we go. This one.

comes from a jup fras jupfraze jup f r a z five stars title the sassiest history podcast in town the sassiest the body of the review reads are you tired of drawn out history documentaries that repetitively show the same photo over and over again yes well look no further than this old-timey podcast. The Grace Kelly of Podcasts is back with her non-threatening boy to tell a wide range of true stories. Hitler, lobotomy, emu wars, and Lucille Ball have never been explained in a more engaging way. I also get to inform people about when men surgically added monkey balls to their body. What a world! Be prepared to laugh and at times become filled with rain.

listening to these two, 10 out of 10. I think they meant filled with rage, but we don't know. Yeah, we get it. Uh-huh. Don't worry. We forgive you for the typo. I love it. Thank you for the review.

Wonderful review. Yeah. I do hate when documentaries show the same photo. God. When I made Gaming Astorian, I was so on top of that. I refused unless I absolutely had to. If I had no choice, I really tried to not show the same thing twice. You were one of the good ones.

Well, Dateline does that shit all the time. It's like they have one photo of somebody. I feel like they've gotten a little better in recent years just because I got roasted. Well, people take so many photos of themselves these days. And they're available online. The internet? I went on the internet. And looked up photos for my documentary.

This one, this review, it made me chuckle. It's a bit of a deep cut. Are you ready? Mm-hmm. Uh, this person's name, it's just a lot of letters. Madges the, the, f, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that's how you say it. Five stars.

Title of the review. Was the shrimp BLT from Modern Market? The body of the review reads, My Fave, and so are you guys, happy face. So, okay, the shrimp BLT. It was from modern market. It was from modern market. It did run right through you.

That was a couple episodes back, but yeah, we've clearly got a local here who enjoys the... Well, that's a chain. That's a national chain. Oh, well. All right. Maybe not a local. Sorry. But that means the shrimp BLT salad is a best-selling item at modern market.

People know about it. And I wonder if it runs through other people. This last review, it's a weird one and I don't understand it. I'm hoping if I read it aloud to you, Norm, you will understand it. Okay. This comes from Slang Updator Josie. Slang Updator Josie. Five stars.

Title, Slang Update. Body of the review reads, Slay Toes means you're cool. Slay Toes. Slay Toes means you're cool. When they say sleigh toes, like we spell sleigh. S-L-A-Y Slay, okay

And then toes like the things On the end of those feet of yours Slay toes means you're cool I don't know what that means You know, but here's the thing Slaying Updator Josie You made me think I appreciate that

You made me ponder And the important thing is You gave the five stars So you've definitely intrigued us And we appreciate that And now everyone knows something new About slang. Slay toes

I'm gonna ask our niece about this She's my official correspondent with the kiddos. She's the youth correspondent for us. For an old-timey podcast. Anyway, those are a few reviews that I enjoyed greatly. And thank you to anyone who has reviewed us. If you haven't already, please give us a five-star review. Yeah.

Thank you very much. It really helps us out. It really does help us out. Not only for learning new slang, but also, I mean, man, that long review, I love it. someone really took the time maybe it was a really long line at subway and they meant to just do a couple words but they're like god no they were probably in line at chippoleil oh that takes a while well shall we wrap this up let's do it you know what they say about history hoes we always cite our sources that's right for this episode i got my information from the books

Pocahontas and the Powhatan dilemma by Camilla Townsend. Pocahontas by Grace Steele Woodward. And The True Story of Pocahontas, the other side of history, by Dr. Linwood Little Bear Custolo and Angela L. Daniel Silver Star. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe.

Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok at Old Timey Podcast. Join the Reddit community, R-slash Old-Timey Podcast. And follow us individually on Instagram. She is the lovely Kristen Pitts-Keruso. Hello. I go by Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio.