An Old Timey Podcast - 39: The Mafia Rescues Nell Donnelly (Part 2)

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

James A. Reed was in federal court, about to argue his case, when a call came in from Kansas City. Nell Donnelly had been kidnapped. James panicked. To James, Nell was so much more than a celebrated fashion designer. She was his neighbor. She was his secret lover. She was the mother of his child. He’d do anything to save her – including threatening the head of the Kansas City mafia. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Nelly Gone: KCQ traces the kidnapping of Nell Donnelly,” by Kate Hill for the Kansas City Public Library The book, “More than Petticoats: Remarkable Missouri Women,” by Elaine Warner The book, “James A. Reed: Legendary Lawyer; Marplot in the United States Senate,” by J. Michael Cronan “First A Lady,” by Jennifer Wilding for the Kansas City Star magazine “Nelly Don’s unexpected legacy,” for the Fashion Conservatory “Nell Donelly Reed,” Historic Missourians “Nelly Don’s zero-waste apron design,” run-sew-read “Nelly Don: Self made in America,” seamwork.com The book, “The Snatch Racket,” by Carolyn Cox The book, “The Devil’s Tickets,” by Gary M. Pomerantz Obituary for George Blair, Kansas City Star, June 10, 1977 “Causes for hate,” The Kansas City American, Dec. 24, 1931 “Mrs. Donnelly is found, safe,” The Kansas City Times, Dec. 18, 1931 “Mrs. Donnelly’s chauffeur tells of the kidnappers’ treatment of them,” The Kansas City Star, Dec. 18, 1931 “Link Mrs. Depew,” The Kansas City Star, Dec. 23, 1931 “Mrs. Donnelly was released last Friday,” Southwest Mail and Weekly Post, Dec. 25, 1931 Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I watched the movie Waiting to Exhale with my grandparents when I was nine years old. And boy, was it awkward. It's Norman Caruso. And on this episode, I'll be talking about the kidnapping of America's best businesswoman, part two. Part two. I held up one finger like an idiot. But only the people on Patreon at the pig butter investor level will know that. So there we go. Yeah, don't worry about it. We can hide your idiocy.

Oh, idiocy. Is that a word idiocy? Who's the real idiocy now? Who's the idiocy now? Yeah, all right. Well, that's great. Welcome to an old-timey podcast, everybody. So part two, Kristen?

Part two. It's happening, baby. And you may think. that this is the end of this series, and you would think that because I said it last week. I was wrong. This is going to be three parts. You know, I'm not even telling you how many parts there are.

I mean, I'm like pretty sure it's three. Oh, no. I'm really sure. I'm really pretty sure. I learned this lesson many, many weeks ago. Many months ago, actually. I can't remember what series I was doing, but I made a commitment that I would never reveal

how many parts something would. be ever again. And I made the same commitment and I decided I would only say the number of parts if I was really, really sure. And I assure you, last week I was very, very sure. What is that? What is that? I think there's someone at the door. Norman, oh my God. Everyone, he's back on his bullshit. I don't know what he's doing. He is. Okay, he's pretending to accept something. Oh, It's a delivery. Oh, did someone enter the home? No, someone dropped this off.

What is this? Oh, okay. Yeah. What is it, Norman? Well, if you keep your halter top on. I'm not wearing a halter top. I'll open it. It's a letter.

Oh, dear God. It's a cease and desist. Oh, really? Yeah, look. Oh, my. You printed something out for this. Hey, can I read it, please? Please.

This is important. Okay. Dear old-timey podcast, this letter is served upon due to defamation of Gregory Peck. Isn't he dead? Why does he care? If you do not cease the aforementioned activity, a lawsuit will be commenced against you. Was this downloaded off of ye old legal Zoom? I got it in the mail.

Didn't you hear the knock at the door? If the activity continues, we will immediately seek a temporary restraining order in the district court against you and any accomplices in this. matter. We will also seek monetary damage to be proved at trial. Hopefully this recourse is not necessary. We have our own interest to protect and will vigorously do so. No.

Sincerely, Dr. Hubert Montgomery, attorney at law. He's representing the estate of Gregory Peck. I thought he was an expert for the Antiques Road Show. What exactly is his line of work? Well, he's a man of many talents, as we all know.

I don't want to go to court against Gregory Peck, so I think you need to apologize. Okay, yeah. For defaming poor Mr. Peck. I did not defame him. Okay, everyone, mistakes of shame, all right? It's a mistake of shame. There we go. Hang on.

Let me get you queued up, and I think this will make this whole lawsuit go away. Mistakes of shame. Folks, in last week's episode, I made a grave of. error. Okay. I don't think we can really overstate how bad my error was. I was referring to, the guy's name is really George Peck. George Peck Dry Goods Company in Kansas City. That's the company that first sold Nell Donnelly's dresses. I mistakenly referred to him as Gregory Peck, dry goods store. Yeah, and then you tried to gaslight me. I did make an attempt. You didn't say that. Yes. But then Joe,

Thanks a lot, Joe. Our editor, Rewound the tape. I am humiliated. I am evidently being served with a cease and desist by someone who broke into the home. What I mean broke into the home? Well, you just went out into the hallway to get that one.

No, I went down to the front door. Oh, sure. Can you hear me say, okay, thank you? I did. I was talking to the mailman. Okay, great. So this has been mistakes of shame. I regret my error.

Well, I'm hoping that'll get the Peck estate off of our back, you know. Sure. Thank goodness. We cannot afford to go to court against Gregory Peck, Kristen. I agree. After all, we're just a small, independent, sexy podcast. And the best way to support our efforts is on Patreon. As a non-threatening fan at the $5 level,

you get monthly bonus episodes of an old-timey podcast with full video, and access to our Discord server where you can chitty chat the day away. At the $7 level, you'll become a history ho, where you also get a signed thank you card with our signatures, stickers, and access to our monthly trivia party, where history hoes from around the world compete for fabulous prizes. You know, this month, a wonderful history ho won some really cool vintage holiday coasters. Mm-hmm.

Or they could have been ashtrays as well. You know, we're not really sure. on if you want to put a cigarette in them. If you want to do that, it's an ashtray. Otherwise, it's a coaster. Well, the winner actually reached out to me. And right now, as we are recording, she is smoking a pack of Marlboro's and drinking a 40. And she's going to determine if it is a coaster or an ashtray.

Wonderful. Yeah. But the real value, folks, is at that $10 pig butter investor tier because you'll get everything I just talked about. Plus early ad-free episodes of an old-timey podcast with full video. 10% off all merchandise, and every episode of Kristen's old podcast, let's go to court, add free. Oh, not my old rotting, decrepit podcast, Norm. Oh. No need for insults today, huh?

I did. I forgot to add that in the script. You know, I'm just reading. So, yeah, head on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast to sign up. Thank you. That was an excellent plug, Norm. Really? If I were listening to this, I'd be like, I'll consider it.

it. Okay. Very good. My job here is done. Should I brag about your excellent bonus episode that we're about to drop? Or are you too humble? I'm too humble. Let's not talk about it. Oh, okay. You want me to just get into the story. Yeah, let's get into the story. It's part two, baby. All right. Previously on an old-timey podcast. We learned that in December of 1931, fashion designer Nell Donnelly and her chauffeur, George Blair,

were kidnapped out of the driveway of her Kansas City home. Their three captors blindfolded them and forced them into the floorboards of Nell's lime green Lincoln convertible. The kidnappers drove aways, then switched vehicles to avoid detection. When they reached their final destination, the men led Nell and George into a dingy, nasty, filthy cottage, where they forced Nell to write two ransom letters. There were cherubs all over the wall.

That's the worst part, Norm. We don't want to hear about those creepy, plump, juicy angel babies. I'm sorry. One of the ransom letters was to her husband, Paul, and the other to her attorney, James Taylor. The letter to James authorized him to withdraw 75K in ransom money from her account. The letter to Paul explained that if the kidnappers did not receive the money, they would blind Nell and kill George.

The letter also stated, that the police should not be contacted. The kidnappers were right to be nervous. They'd abducted a very powerful and well-liked businesswoman. But if they were worried that the police were already aware of their crime, they needn't be. First off, George Blair was black. And due to the Kansas City Police Department's treatment of black citizens,

his wife, Savannah would have been highly unlikely to ask the police for help, locating her missing husband. Nell's husband Paul had a different reason for not calling the police. The Donnelly's marriage was on the rocks. Paul drank a lot. He cheated on Nell. Paul barely noticed that Nell didn't come home on the night she was kidnapped. The truth was, her heart belonged to another man. And Paul knew it. Nell was in love with their much older neighbor. A married, prominent attorney and politician named James A. Reed. Who was hot? What?

I saw a photo of them when I listened to the episode before it released and I was like, whoa, this guy's actually pretty hot. Did you have to take a minute? Were you a little too turned on to continue the edit? Yeah, I did. Good for you, Norm. Earlier that year, when she became pregnant with James A. Reed's child, Nell suggested that they both divorce their respective spouses, but James refused. So, Nell told everyone she was going to Europe to adopt a child. In reality, she went to Chicago and gave birth to a baby boy she named David.

Paul knew that the baby was Nell's biological child. He also knew that David had been fathered by James A. Reed. But Paul agreed not to make a fuss. There was too much at stake. For everyone involved. For one thing, James A. Reed had ambitions to become president of these United States. Wow, rude, rude! In hindsight, it's just funny. He'd run unsuccessfully in 1924 and 1928, not to make you chuckle. And he was gearing up for another run in 1932. Would he succeed? No, but don't worry about it.

Meanwhile, the Donnellys had ambitions of their own. The Donnelly Garment Company was a remarkably successful business. It employed more than a thousand people and made more than than $3 million in profit every year. Adjusted for inflation, that's like $62 million. Ch-ching! Nell had single-handedly changed the way women dressed. Nell Donnelly elevated fashion for the everyday woman, and she'd emerged as a leader in creating safe working conditions for garment workers. She paid well. She offered benefits, lots of benefits. Everything was going so great. No one wanted to upset the apple cart

Or the dress cart as it were The upset the apple cart Haven't you heard that upset the apple cart? I've never heard that before, no Where have you been, sir? Under an apple cart I've been stuck in this house with you Wow!

But with Nell Donnelly kidnapped All that caution went out the window In this week's episode The Ransom Letters arrive James A. Reed goes apeshit, and the Kansas City Mafia helps solve a kidnapping. Ooh, woo, woo. Okay. I got to admit, I did a little sneaky thing there.

What did you do? Well, okay, I started reading this book that said that Paul actually did know that baby David had been fathered by James A. Reed. I almost interrupted you, but I didn't want to. I was being a good boy. It's being a good podcaster. Boy, you're a grown man, fully grown man. I seem like a defensive pedophile. Sorry. I swear he's of age.

Yeah, I almost interrupted you. Uh-huh. And was like, wait a minute. Last week in part one of this allegedly two-part series. Yeah, lots of lies all around. You said that you weren't sure if Paul knew. But now it is confirmed, Paul knew? Yeah, I mean, one of the books that I read said that he did not.

and that James A. Reid maybe got a little threatening with him about like, let's go along with this. James A. Reed got threatening with it? Yeah. Did James A. Reed's wife know that he was banging nil? I do not know that. Now, James always made a big point about like, oh, he and Lura, Lura, had an arrangement. They just didn't have sex. Yeah, but that also...

You always say that to the side chick. Norm, what are you... What? You always... No, I do agree. These sounds... That sounds like a story you tell the lady you've got on the side. Yeah.

But it might also be true. Right, well, yeah, I am curious if she knew. Anyway, it's not important to this story in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, but I'll tell you, as this kidnapping comes to light, the dynamic between Paul Donnelly and James A. read is going to get weird. I mean, it would have to. It's already a weird dynamic. Yeah, I was, what am I saying, going to get weird? Look out, everybody. This totally normal thing where this really old dude is walking over and banging your wife and then she's like, I'm going to adopt a child, but we all know she's not adopting it. Like, hold on,

now it's going to get weird in this episode. Ready? I'm ready. The night of December 16th, 1931 was a long one. Nell had remained stoic throughout the abduction and most of the evening. But that night, as she lay on a filthy cot in a cramped, unfamiliar location, she cried. She asked the kidnappers when she'd be allowed to go home, but their responses were non-committal. George Blair stood nearby, as still as a statue. He'd been right there when the kidnappers announced their plan to kill him if the ransom wasn't paid. George believed the men, and he knew that with his feet and hands bound by rope and a blindfold obscuring his vision, that he'd be powerless to fight them off. So George did the only thing he could do. From the start,

the kidnappers had told him to stay still. So he did. As the hours wore on, George focused on staying perfectly still. He didn't want to give the men any reason to do him harm. As night descended on the little cottage, George listened. So did Nell. They weren't sure where they were exactly, but that night they were both pretty certain that they heard cows and pigs. They also heard some kind of roar. Later, neither of them would be able to say what exactly that was. But they thought that it came from maybe some sort of machine. maybe a street car? Hmm.

They didn't know. They didn't know how many men were involved in this kidnapping. They didn't even know what exactly their captors looked like or what they were truly capable of. They just knew that they were afraid and they desperately wanted to get back home. Well, Nell wasn't blindfolded. Off and on, she was. Off and on? Yes.

Listen, Norm, I know you have no respect for these kidnappers, not on. on ethical grounds, but just because you think they're dumb about how they're going about this with sometimes blindfolding her, sometimes not. But that's just the truth. Sometimes she was blindfolded. Sometimes she wasn't. I just don't understand why you just wouldn't leave her blindfolded. And I know you tried to be like, well, it's because in court she'd be like, oh, I was kidnapped, at least they were nice to me. What's wrong with that?

I don't think it's going to help you. You still kidnapped her and demanded a ransom. They don't reduce your sentence by 25 years because you took the blindfold up. You stupid hoe, you stupid ho! Excuse me? Yes. You don't think it matters how she is treated? You don't think that will affect how a jury sees these men?

I think, yes, it would, but I don't think taking off the blindfold is like that big of a deal. Now, if they brought her an apple pie with vanilla ice cream, now we're kind of up in the end. to you a little bit here, you know. So you're fine with being blindfolded for however long it takes, as long as you are provided with delicious treats. If they gave her delicious food, it might make things a little better. All right. Anyway, again, this is not important to the story, so continue.

I think it is actually important to the story, and I think you have revealed yourself to be a stupid hope. Damn. My deep, dark, dirty secret. I'm a stupid ho. That morning, back in Kansas City, Nell's attorney James Taylor arrived at work, where the mail had recently been delivered.

He opened an envelope addressed to him, and, oh, shit, discovered that it contained two ransom letters. James read the letters in shock. Suddenly, everything made perfect, horrible sense. That phone call that his wife had answered the night before in which a man who refused to identify himself claimed he'd left Nell Donnelly's vehicle at the country club Plaza behind the Plaza theater? That hadn't been a prank at all. She'd been talking to and laughing at a very dangerous man.

Yeah, she freaking hung up on him and laughed at him. Yeah, she thought it was like a really dumb prank, bro. James Taylor acted fast. He rushed over to the Donnelly home and gave Paul the news. Paul read the ransom letter, written in his wife's shaky cursive, and decided that he would follow it to the letter. They didn't want him to involve the police? Fine, he wouldn't. It's true that Paul and Nell had a bad marriage. I mean, she'd just given birth to a child who he knew wasn't his. But Paul was also no angel. He went out on the town all the time, drinking, hooking up with other women, and then sweating it all off in the local sauna before, you know, eventually. eventually maybe showing up at work. Sweating it off.

Yeah. Getting real drunk, then, you know, going and being a sweaty dude. Well, Nell, the kidnappers only asked for like $75,000, right? Which I think we talked about in this last episode. That doesn't seem like a lot of money. Yeah, even when you adjust for inflation, it's not a ton of money. It's like, you know, Dr. Evil's $1 million ransom demand. It does feel a little bit like that.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, if I'm Paul, I'm just going to be like, okay, I'm going to write him a check and that'll be the end of this, right? Yeah, maybe. Go on. So I'm bringing up the bad marriage thing just as a reminder of where they're at, but also to say, none of that meant that he wanted anything bad to happen to Nell. He didn't.

This was terrifying. They needed to get Nell and George back. But Paul wasn't equipped to handle this on his own. Nell had known that. And it's likely that she chose to address the ransom letters to her attorney, knowing that he would know to alert the one man who might actually save her. Her lover. James A. Reed.

James Taylor and James A. Reed were law partners. And although the vast majority of people had no idea that he and Nell were having an affair, Those closest to them probably did. Nell often dropped by his office. And during Nell's visits, which often lasted about an hour, James A. Reed gave his secretary strict instructions not to interrupt them for any reason. Damn. Just chit-chatting, I'm sure.

They always thought Nell was a very religious woman, always screaming, oh God, oh God. I was like, where are you going with this? At night, James was sometimes spotted walking the short distance to the Donnelly home. Just to have a cigar. Yeah, he was smoking his cigar because he didn't want his wife to be bothered by the smoke. But also, he told people that the two homes shared a dog run. And that was technically true. But it was also true that he used that dog run to walk down to her home.

enter the oops conveniently unlocked back door and go up the stairs to the primary bedroom where Nell was waiting for him. Yeah, it's a dog run all right. He's a little puppy dog going to get his little doggy treat. Ew, gross. Okay, I don't want to hear this metaphor go any further. Okay, okay. This will help. Oh, there we go. That just cancels everything. It just seals the deal. Mm-hmm. Anytime you say anything really controversial or maybe. messed up or just offensive.

Uh-huh. If I do this, it cancels it out. It's a very powerful sound. No one can get mad at me, huh? No one. Is this where I finally go full throttle against the Disney adults for being total weirdos? People are very interested in what you erased from one of your episodes. Something you said about Disney adults.

I honestly can't recall what you said. I recall exactly what I said. I do have the raw audio on my computer. Maybe I should. check it out. In my defense, it was very funny. But I also knew that those Disney adults, they'd get really

angry about it. And I don't want those freaks angry at me. Do you need the sound right there? Yeah, probably. Okay. Can't get mad. All right. Did James A. Reed have a dog? I guess I don't know, actually. That'd be very funny. He didn't

even have a dog. We're just sharing the dog. Yeah, you're right. He's got to have a dog. Otherwise, that's a weird thing to do. So all this to say that Nell and James were very important to each other. They were in love. But that wasn't the reason that everyone needed his help. The reason why James Taylor and Paul Donnelly knew that they needed James A. Reed was because of his tremendous influence. You see, Norm, James A. Reed was connected.

He hadn't been born in Kansas City. In fact, he'd moved to the city in his late 20s. But he had had this incredible, meteoric rise from city counselor to district attorney to mayor to three-time U.S. Senator. And he'd achieved all of it because, yeah, okay, he was pretty good at his job. But also because he'd been chosen by a corrupt political machine that worked closely with the Kansas City Mafia. Pendergast? You know it, baby. Yeah.

Tom Pendergast, the real man behind Kansas City. Yeah. Future topic? I think that would be pretty darn interesting. Just don't say how many parts it'll be. Oh, my God. 12,000. Paul Donnelly and James Taylor knew that the best way,

possibly the only way to get Nell back and get George Blair back, was through the man who'd always had one leg in and one leg out. of that corrupt system. I say that because, like, this stuff is complicated when you've got a corrupt political machine. Because even in a shitty system, some good folks are going to get selected. And a lot of people thought that James A. Reed was one of those good folks. Now, he didn't think that women should be able to vote and he hated Irish people. And I think he was for the KKK at one point.

He did turn that around. So, you know, hey, we're not all perfect, you know. Some of us are horribly racist. For example, I hate Irish people. It's just one of my fun quirks. Yeah. Well, you think about Harry Truman. Yeah.

Harry Truman came through this corrupt system and, like, turned out to be, I think he's reflected on a little better than history has treated him before. obviously the atomic bomb thing was... Yeah, it turns out when you murder tons and tons of people, that's a bad thing. So James A. Reed is going to his political corrupt boss boys. Hold on. You are way ahead. I am? Because right now they're just like, oh, holy shit, we've got these ransom letters. We've got to get a hold of James A. Reed.

But that was a little harder than you might expect. Because when the ransom letters came in, James was out of town. He was working on a federal case in Jefferson City, Missouri, which is about two and a half hours away from Kansas City. And I'm realizing, just as I say that now, it's two and a half hours now. But I don't know that all those roads that you would use now were there in 1931. Yeah, back then it probably took 12 days. I know for a fact it didn't. No, not 12 days.

But yeah, yeah, it probably took a little longer, sure. Because cars only went 10 miles an hour back then. That's right. No, they went a little faster than that. Court was just about to go back in session when someone from the law office called James with the terrible news. What happened next was a bit of a blur. As soon as court started up, James asked to approach the bench.

He asked the judge for a postponement. His neighbor, his beloved neighbor, the famous businesswoman, Nell Donnelly, had been kidnapped. He told the judge this? Yeah, if you're going to get, a postponement for a federal case, you better have a damn good reason. And what's better than my neighbor, who I really, really, really like, just really adore my neighbor, was kidnapped. We share a dog run, Your Honor. This is not our standard friendship, okay? It's much deeper than that.

Totally platonic, but we love having that dog run. James? Well, damn, I can't believe he told the judge. Yeah, my neighbor's been kidnapped. Hold on. Why can't you believe that? Because part of the ransom note was like, don't get the police involved. And now you're telling a fucking federal judge, that seems a little higher than the police. Oh, Norm, very good. Okay, so James told the judge everything he knew. What a snitch.

What James didn't say was that this information really needed to be kept a secret. See? Okay, now hang on. You are being too harsh already. In fairness, when the person had called James to give him the news, they kind of gave him the highlight reel. Like, ah, no, and her chauffeur have been kidnapped. We don't know where they are. Come help us.

You got to get back here. In the midst of that panic, the caller did not give James all of the details. Details like the fact that the kidnappers had specifically said do not involve the police. Oh, dear God. Oh, well, the judge agreed to the postponement because, you know, sure. That's an excellent reason for a postponement. And James fled the courthouse. Wow, this is like a movie.

He, and this is going to sound like I'm making this up. I swear I'm not. He tried to charter a plane. In 1931, he tried to charter a plane from Jeff City, Missouri to Kansas City, Missouri. But I'm guessing people were like, dude. You got to be kidding. And he got in a car and he drove. I mean, that's not too crazy.

It's a little silly. Look, Kristen, if you recall from my bonus episode about testicles, who could forget? There was a wealthy Chicago man who had a pet monkey because he wanted his darn wrinkleberries to rejuvenate himself. And he lived like an hour outside of Chicago. And then he got a call that the monkey was sick. he fucking flew a plane into Chicago to check on his monkey. That's only an hour away.

Okay. Well. So is it that crazy that James A. Reed said, Give me a damn plane. I'll say this to you, Norm. If we are going to compare all of our stories to that man and decide whether or not something is ridiculous based on what a man who owned a monkey because he wanted to like do something weird with his balls, I don't know. Then all of a sudden, everyone's going to seem totally normal. That's my problem with that logic.

You're saying the bars too high for ridiculousness? Yes. That's fair. I think this is a better reason to charter a plane, though. I'll say that. Who on earth would disagree? Yes, yes. Someone has been kidnapped.

Charter that plane. If it's 1931 and that's not really in the cards, get in that car and drive all 12 of those miles per hour that you can do. Mm-hmm. pedal to the medal. So, James is driving. Woo, speeding toward Kansas City. And while he did that, all hell broke loose.

What? Before I tell you what happened, let me first tell you how things were going in Kansas City. Okay, so everyone in the Donnelly home, James Taylor, everyone who knew about this was doing just the most excellent job, keeping it a secret. The Donnelly's had quite a few household staff members. And, you know, people would call in because it was weird. Where was Nell Donnelly? Why wasn't she at work? And the maid would say, oh, you know, she's in the nursery right now with Baby David. What? That's a weird name for a little boy. He should be called Baby Davy. I know. And I'd love to stay in gossip with you, but I got to go. So they are just lying, lying, lying. You want to talk to Nell Donnelly? Oh, she is here. She's Definitely home. Don't worry. But she can't come to the phone right now or the door or anything at all. Yeah, they're screening all the calls. Love it. But, you know, as you pointed out, James A. Reed spilled his guts to the judge. Yeah. So what did the judge do? Well, it's hard to say now what exactly went wrong? Maybe he'd spoken too loudly to the judge. maybe the judge or perhaps the opposing counsel who also would have heard that argument

hadn't realized that at this point only a handful of people knew about the kidnapping. Whatever the reason, word got out in the courthouse. And that courthouse was filled with reporters because, of course, it was. They were there to cover all the court cases. Right, cover the case. But when they found out that Nell Donnelly had been kidnapped, well, holy heaven. Oh, that meant they just got the scoop of a lifetime. The reporters phoned their editors.

They ran back to their desks. They typed and typed and typed and typed. And by that very afternoon, the story that really, really needed to be a secret had been put into print and was now being shouted out by newsboys all over the state. X-Stra! H-ray! With his little derby hat on? Absolutely. Required. when James A. Reed finally arrived at the Donnelly home, he gathered as much information as he could.

Not that there was a lot to go on. Really, the only things they had were the ransom letters and the fact that the kidnappers had called the Taylor home the night before to report that they'd abandoned Nell's car at the Country Club Plaza. So they went to the Plaza Theater parking lot, and there it was. The lime green car? Yeah. They examined the vehicle. And what they found, was disturbing. The car had clearly been the scene of a struggle. They discovered Nell's hat. The lining of it had been torn. They found rope. They found two checkbooks from First National Bank, and there was a spot on one of the checks. A doctor examined it and said it was blood. It was obvious there'd been a struggle, but it was really those drops of blood that made the men worry. This was the thing that seems to have

James's temper up and that anger, that fury, that will to find Nell Donnelly, and sure, also George. Boy, he gets a little forgotten in these stories. I bet he does, yeah. The chauffeur. He wanted to bring the hammer down on the men who'd done this. Is he hulking out? Oh, yes, sir.

You're going to see him Hulk smash everything. So he made a statement to the media Because by this point Everyone knew what had happened Because oopsies he'd spilled the beans Yeah In his statement he addressed the kidnappers He showed his willingness to work with them

And he didn't apologize But he did say that The fact that the kidnapping Was now a major news story It was in fact national news That was on him He said that he hadn't known What the Ransom Letters said

If he had known he would have absolutely shut his mouth. He would have done everything in his power to make sure they got their money. So he's walking it all back now. He's like, oops, sorry, I did that. Please don't do anything to know. My bad. I mean, what else can you do?

I mean, that's true. What else can you do? I'll tell you what else you can do. What? You can do this kind of apology thing. Up the money. Oh, that's interesting. He's like, sorry about that.

Tell you what, we'll up your money for the ransom. Norm, you are such a. a non-threatening boy. I am. Oh, I am. I am. Why am I am? Why am I'm questioning that? Yes, I am. You literally just said the thing to do is kind of apologize and also be like, you know what? You know what? I want to give you more money because you know what? I think you boys have embarrassed yourselves. Only asking for 75K. All right? So I'm going to up it. No, it's not because they embarrassed themselves. It's because he fucked up. So he's going to up the ransom money as an apology. Sure. But it was an embarrassing amount of money.

You call yourself kidnappers? Take that number and double it. That's how much you'll get. James A. Reed went a bit of a different route from you, Norm. Instead of offering the kidnappers more money, he decided

to show his power. I'm going to read that portion of his statement to you now. Okay. If these men release or deliver Mrs. Donnelly unharmed, they can get their $75,000 They can get it in any form they desire, and under any conditions they name.

In this, I am speaking for Mr. Donnelly, and I add my personal guarantee. On the other hand, if a hair of Mrs. Donnelly's head is harmed, I will, and Mr. Donnelly will, spend the rest of our lives running the culprits to earth and securing for them the extreme penalty of law, which in Missouri is death by hanging. Hmm. So he's laying down his hammer. He's flopping his dong on the table. No.

Come on, boys. I am telling you, if I'm Nell Donnelly and I somehow hear that statement, I'm like, let me out of here. I have got to blow that guy. I'm about to bust That is something Don't you think? You're getting tingly feelings? Hell yeah!

I got tingly feelings reading that in the old-timey newspaper archives. Whoa. Do you not get the tingles? I mean, I get the tingles. I feel like you're faking the tingles. He's faking it. Yeah, I mean, that's the smart thing to do for sure.

He's a powerful guy. He's got connections. Absolutely. He can make these guys' lives miserable. Sure. That's a much better idea than how about I give you more money? Okay, fellas, I'm going to throw in an extra five-grade and, hey, listen to this. I'm going to bend over and hold my ankles, okay?

And you just do whatever you will. You do whatever you want to be. You know what? You don't even have to return my wife, actually. Okay. Let's just try it. Here's a question for you. You hear this statement.

Are you thinking, hmm, something going on between James and Nell? Or would that not be a thought that would occur to you? No, it wouldn't occur to me because, one, their neighbors, two, his law partner is their lawyer. They clearly know the Donnellys. They're probably friends. I wouldn't automatically go to, oh, James A. Reed is sneaking across the dog run every night and banging the hell out of Nell. Donnelly. Okay.

Okay. Bang in the hell at a knell. I will share, I read another newspaper article. I thought this was so interesting. In this article, they talked about, you know, what they found in her car and how that was pretty scary. They went to her office. You know, at this point, they're still kind of searching for, is there any indication of anything? Can we find anything?

Were there any phone calls, all that stuff? And the reporters found, you know, just kind of her death. was a normal desk. But they did note that she had a newspaper on her desk and it was, you know, right on, it was folded in such a way as to really highlight a new article about her neighbor, James A. Reed. And the article in the newspaper went into extra depth to explain that, well, that's her neighbor. That's a good friend of her.

So that makes sense that she would have that kind of prominently displayed. But I think if you're just rubbing a couple brain cells together, you're like, oh. Well, it didn't help. She had a big heart around the picture of him in the newspaper, too. Yeah. And she'd written hashtag, love him on it, which was ahead of her time. And she also wrote, I'm going to blow the hell out of him tonight. Wow.

You know what? That's not very classy. But, you know, these people who don't think it's a relationship, they're like, you know they share a dog run, right? They're very close. The dog run explains everything. It really does. So he made that statement. And shortly after that, James made a very important phone call.

He did not call the police. There would have been no point in that. Well, yeah, because the kidnappers, he had to apologize already. He's not calling the police now. Well, that's not exactly what I'm saying. You don't call the police because at this point in Kansas City history, The city was wide open. The police force was easily bribed and largely under the control of the local mafia.

Kansas City was a place where you could do anything. Drink, gamble, do drugs, hire a sex worker. Nothing was off limits. They call it the Paris of the Plains, and that is why. I think that is such a stupid thing to say. Why? Because to me, it feels exactly the same as when people who went to a liberal arts school that no one's heard of is like, they're like, well, you see, it's like the Harvard of Central Kansas,

or they call it the Harvard of Ottawa, you know, whatever. Ottawa. Ottawa, Kansas? Yes. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. But you know what I mean? Like, it feels a little like you're trying really hard.

I think if anyone went to Paris and then came to Kansas City, they would be mightily disappointed. And I say that. as a Kansas city and who loves my city, but come on, let's be real. That's fair. That's fair. You'd be like, Sacra, bleh, this place sucks. So James had always accepted how the city ran. Yeah, he knew the deal.

Yeah. He's been there long enough. You could do anything. But kidnapping Nell Donnelly, his Nell Donnelly, that was off limits. So no, James didn't call the police. Instead, he made a phone call to a. soft-spoken, soft-drink distributor. Soft-spoken, soft-drink distributor.

Yeah, a man who dressed impeccably and who wore very thick glasses on account of his glaucoma. A man who just reeked of Cologne. That was his style. Dr. Pepper? What? The guy's name? No. A man who controlled Kansas City's North End.

That man's name? Gus Fring. Shut up. It was a joke. That's from Breaking Bad. But doesn't he kind of remind you of Gus a little bit of just kind of a soft-spoken? He was. You know, if you see this guy on the street, you're not going to think he's up to anything.

Yeah. Very soft-spoken, you're right. Okay. Yeah. Uh-huh. I'm picking up what you're putting down. This man's real name was Johnny Lazia, and he was the boss of the Kansas City Mafia. So the soft drink distribution, that's a front.

What? That was his official title and definitely what he officially did for an official living. My grandpa on my dad's side grew up in Harlem and he talked about, you know, the mafia. Yeah. When he grew up and he said they had a candy store. Oh, yeah. But he said it was a legit candy store. but he was like if if if if they knew you and you lived in that neighborhood they would just give you candy oh yeah i thought it was sweet it's it's funny to like to have that reaction ah and also be like and they were probably killing people

and doing all kinds of terrible they were doing illegal bad shit but also they gave norm norm's grandpa some peppermance and that is really nice yeah they did no norm um the mafia is known for taking care of the community you know yeah And taking care. Of business. No, Norm, as you've pointed out, his title was soft drink distributor, but his real job wasn't quite so sweet and bubbly. Very good. I apologize. I wrote that down, and I couldn't not say it.

It had to come out. You are such a talented writer. Oh, obviously. This is why saying things like that. So since James A. Reed had come to power alongside John Lazia, and since they'd run on the periphery of the same circles, James knew that if something criminal happened in Kansas City, John Lazia had to know about it. At the very least, he was well positioned to find out about it. So what do you do, Norm? What did John Lazia do? No, no, no. What did James A. Reed say to him in this phone call? You've got the head of the Kansas City Mafia on the line. What do you say to him?

You say, bonjourno. Okay. No, you say, hey, Nell Donnelly's been kidnapped. I need you to find out who did it. And if you don't help me, then we're going to be bothering your soft drink distribution company for a little while. Good luck making seven up. Yeah. When Nell Donnelly's missing.

Yeah, and that really scared John Losia because he's like, this soft drink business is all I have. Or hey, we're going to look into your taxes. The downfall of every gangster. Yeah, that's right. Okay, so what he did was he threatened, John. James said he would purchase radio time and use it to tell everything he knew about what the Kansas City Mafia was up to. He said he'd use his position as an attorney to ruin everything that the mafia had going for it. The gambling, the sex work, the drugs, the crime, all of it.

Kansas City was about to become a lot less wide open unless Mrs. Nell Donnelly was returned home within 24 hours unharmed. Yeah. So he said, I'm basically going to be a huge snitch. Yeah. It's hard to say exactly how John Lazia responded. in the moment to that threat. And of course, none of this is on record, but it definitely happened. But John Lazia was a businessman, and his business was being threatened. To hear him tell it, no Kansas City gangster would want to put Nell Donnelly in danger. They liked her. They liked her politics. They liked her as an employer. They respected how well connected she was. The Kansas City Mafia did not want to mess with Nell Donnelly.

It wasn't smart. It wasn't good for business. Doing so would put eyes on them. It would draw unwanted attention. From the start, John Lazia was certain that these kidnappers, whoever they were, had to be from out of town. Because he thinks he would have heard about it if they were local. Part of it, I think, is ego of like, no one would do this without my knowledge. or without my permission.

Gotcha. So these have to be people who do not know how things are run here. So John met with the local chief of police and told him that his organization would help find Nell Donnelly and George Blair. I've got my soda delivery boys looking everywhere behind every vending machine. Yeah, normally we spend our days filling up those vending machines. But for now, why don't you police officers just take a load off? we're going to go get this done.

The police chief agreed because, you know, he's just a cuck. So there we go. He's a cuck? To the mafia, yeah? Yeah, I mean, the mafia is basically running the town. So he's just like, yeah, whatever. John Lossia helped with a lot of the hiring for the Kansas City Police Department. Did he? Yes, yes.

The interview. Tell me about a time. Where you handled a challenge. And it still didn't go so well, because you got to figure out, Is this person humble enough to admit their mistakes? Absolutely. What are some of your weaknesses? Tell me about your favorite soft drink.

Yeah, I always, I hated answering those questions and interviews. It always felt cringe. I loved them. Ugh, hate it. I always felt like I shined in an interview and just really fell apart when the job started. So they were like, this lady is going to kick ass. And then you get to the job and they're just like, oh. Listen, I can't speak for them.

But my ADHD, when I'm just sitting at a table and I'm getting questions fired at me, I'm on, baby. I'm with it. Yeah. But then you sit me at a desk in a cubicle farm and you tell me to maybe write a press release. That's going to take a while. Yeah, because there's a bird at the window. It's very cute. And also, I need to ask everybody how their weekend was.

You know? Sure. Got to get to the bottom of that. Got to get in on the office gossip. So John Lazia sent 25 carloads of armed gangsters all over the city. He's arming the soda delivery boys? Yes. Soda delivery boys.

Just imagining. You know, like, those, like, cute little old-timey delivery man outfits. Sure. And they're just, like, strapped with a freaking... Tommy. assault rifle, yeah, a freaking Tommy gun. Uh-huh. You know, knocking on doors, ringing doorbells.

Uh-huh. With Tommy guns. That would be amazing. The men were angry, violent, and just wanted some information. Interestingly, the Kansas City Star reported on that phenomenon of these armed gangsters driving around the city frantically as, quote, like an election day. Ooh, well, that just speaks to how corrupt. to this damn city was. Yeah, that's what happened.

On election days in Kansas City, voter turnout was nearly 100% because everyone was very patriotic and also because of the armed men who made sure that you voted and that you voted correctly. And voted multiple times. Sure, if the mood strikes you.

Did you ever see that movie? I think it's called Kansas City. No. It was made in the late 90s, I think. And it's got Jennifer, Jason Lee, and Steve Bouchemey. Okay. And there's actually a scene where Steve Bouchemy is like a mafia guy. And he's like busing people to the different voting locations.

He's like, all right, all right, everybody vote. Everybody vote. He's like, all right, everyone, get back on the car, get back in the car. And they drive to the next voting location. I thought it was nice. That was filmed in Kansas City. That's pretty darn cool. Yeah.

It's not a great movie, but. Oh, wow. Sorry to say that. Steve Buchemi was listening to the podcast. He was so excited. And now he'll never get over this pain. No, Steve did a great job. Shoot, there is another really famous actor in that movie.

Harry Belafonte. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was amazing in that movie. You don't know who that is? No, I do. I don't think you do. I do.

I don't think you do. As carloads of gangsters drove all over the city, The mood in the Donnelly household was somber. Everyone felt sick. They felt sorry for this little baby who was three months old. They felt sorry for Paul. His wife had been kidnapped. But across town, George Blair's wife, Savannah, didn't get that same sympathy.

She certainly got it from her community. The Kansas City Call, which is one of the city's black newspapers, reported that the Blairs were good people. They were well respected. They were involved in their church. They were active in social clubs. They even interviewed the landlord, and the landlord was like, yeah, they're good tenants, really like them. They pay their rent on time.

Which, oh, you know what? That's so dumb of me. I was like, that's stupid to include. But no, if other people are being suspicious, then the fact that they always pay their bills on time is absolutely something that you should include in an article. Boy, I'm learning things in real time. putting it all together. Very good, Kristen. So they're good folks.

But when three detectives went to the Blair home, located at 2922 Norton Avenue, it's now a field, don't bother, I'm disappointed to, they didn't treat Savannah like a woman who just discovered that her husband had been kidnapped and that his life was at risk if the kidnappers didn't receive the ransom money. Instead, they treated her like a perpetrator of that crime. That day the detectives entered the Blair home and pushed a panicked Savannah against a wall. One of them demanded information from her, information that she did not have. And he slapped her. Jesus Christ! Police dragged her out of the home. Neighbors watched in horror as the police threw Savannah against the cop car

and her head slammed hard against the car. One of her neighbors tried to intervene, but the officers beat him and arrested him. Jesus Christ. Yeah, no wonder she didn't call the police. No! When she found out. You'd be crazy, too.

Yeah. They arrested Savannah. They searched her home. The thing they thought they had on her, and boy, did they think this was big, was that when they searched her purse, they spotted a scrap of paper. On that scrap of paper was the figure $75,000.

It had been written on that scrap of paper. It was in her purse. What do you think, Norm? Pretty bad, huh? Well, Shirley... Lock her up. Lock her up. Don't worry.

We already did. She was just making a note or something of like how much they were demanding. And so she wrote it down and put it in her purse. she could remember how much. Right. I mean, the news had already gotten out, and the ransom amount was now common knowledge. Yeah. But they thought for sure that that meant she knew something, that she had insider knowledge about the kidnapping.

When they asked her about it, she told them the truth. She said, I went to the grocery store earlier today, and the grocery store owner and the grocery store or the blah. and the grocery store owner. Oh, my God. A joke. It's a pretty. Oh, my God. Why should I?

The grocery store. The grocery store. Her, ha, hur, hur, hur, hur, hur, hur, I'm going to take that one more time. And I'm going to say it perfectly. Are you ready? The grocery store orator is what you're trying to say. Don't you mess me up.

Don't you mess me up. She said, are you ready for perfection? Here it comes. Here it comes. coming at you fast. She said, I went to the grocery store earlier today and the grocery store owner. Oh my God. Why is that hard?

Why is that hard? I still don't know who's talking to her, Kristen. There's somebody at the grocery store talking to Savannah. She said, I went to the grocery store earlier today and the grocery store owner told me I love the ransom. Okay. Very good. Well done.

Yep. I'm amazing. Been podcasting for a long time now, and I think it shows because words they just fall out perfectly. She said, I asked him to write down the amount of money that they were asking for. And he did. He wrote it on that scrap of paper. I put it in my purse. That's it.

They sent detectives to that grocery store to check up on Savannah's story. and the grocery store owner gave them the disappointing news that yeah, that's exactly what happened. Yeah. Savannah, the woman they just assaulted and arrested, was telling the truth. So, after a seven-hour interrogation,

Savannah Blair was released. Good God. Fucking morons. Evil. Yeah. Morons, you know, hey, a moron is someone who can't say grocery store owner. You almost messed it up again

But I'm not going to assault anybody, you know Grocery store, part of home I may not be able to say that But I guarantee you I won't slam you up against a vehicle We'll take it We'll rather we'd rather have that When she arrived back at her home She surveyed the damage

The police They probably turned her place inside out Yep, yep And because why not make it worse They'd also stolen from her So the place is a mess and she went through, you know, trying to figure out, okay, what's missing. And she noticed that a gun was missing, two of her purses were missing, and a large bottle of perfume was missing. And there will be no recourse for any of this, huh?

Hell no. Yeah, of course. Savannah was unquestionably worse off than she'd been before. Now, in addition to knowing that her husband was being held captive somewhere and that his life hung in the balance, she had to process the abuse she'd just suffered at the hands of the police. Meanwhile, Nell Donnelly and George Blair were stuck in that cottage, quietly panicking about whether they'd make it out alive. At one point, their captors brought them something to eat. Aha! It was an apple pie with a big scoop of ice cream.

cream on top and they said we're keeping you blindfolded but it's free smells all day. Not free smells. They're letting them eat it. Yeah. Yeah. That too. No, it was just milk and cookies. Was it really milking cookies?

Yeah. They... I mean, that's nice. Well... Now get you some points in court. Maybe. The kidnappers did go out of their way to say you can have anything to eat that you want. Really?

Well, yeah, but I don't think, you know, come on. Read the room. That's like when you're out with someone, they say, order whatever you want. Only a true asshole would be like, I'll have all the caviar in this entire restaurant. You still got to. Are you calling me an asshole right now? Because I do this all the time. You do.

Everyone, if you ever are out to eat with Norm and you say, hey, I'm buying. Get whatever you want. The most expensive thing on that menu is going into Norm's belly. Look, I did it as a kid, and I, like, didn't consciously realize I was doing it. But, yeah, whenever we'd go have to eat as a family, I somehow always ordered the most expensive thing on the menu. And my dad would always joke, Norm always orders the caviar fajitas. It's one of my favorite jokes your dad has ever told of just, like, that concept of you're at a restaurant where you wouldn't think that you could find an item this highly priced. You wouldn't think there would be caviar here.

But, oh, wait, they've got caviar fajitas somehow here, and little Normie C has just ordered them. Yeah. I don't know. It stuck with me. Even as an adult, I seemed to do it as well. It seemed to, yeah. I seem to.

It's a real mystery. I'm just a man of great taste, I guess. Very sophisticated. Yeah. Did they really tell Nell Donnelly will get you whatever you want? Yeah. I mean, George and Nell both said, and, you know, it's hard to, you don't really want to be giving compliments to these guys, but they did say, you know, they were gentlemanly, as they said, I'm going to kill you and blind you. But yeah, and they got milk and cookies?

Yeah. I would ask for something savory. Norm, this is, again, you being ridiculous. No, I'm not being ridiculous. No, they just took what they were given. But they were asked, what do you want to eat? And they got milk and cookies? Well, they were told like, hey, we can get you whatever you want.

And they requested milk and cookies. No, I don't believe that they did. I believe that was just what was provided to them. And boy, Norm, your survival instincts, I'm worried about you. If you get kidnapped, they're going to be like, what the hell, dude, we tried to be nice. You ordered 12 pizzas. They're going to think you're trying to bring suspicious on. Suspicion on them.

You can't get filet mignon as a topping. I'm sorry. No, I only say I would want savory because I'd be, my anxiety would be sky high if I'm kidnapped and blindfolded. And having sweet stuff would not help my stomach. So I need something a little savory to kind of settle the stomach. Yeah, sure, sure. One of my favorite things my grandma has ever said is we, we, my mom was talking to my grandma. They were watching some show or movie and it had a scene where somebody was on death row and they were getting their last meal or whatever.

And so my mom turned to my grandma and asked, what would you get as your last meal? And my grandma thought for a minute and then she was like, probably toast. And my mom was like toast. For your last meal? For your last meal on earth you want toast? And my grandma was like, yeah, I'd just be too nervous. It would really help settle my stomach. She's not wrong.

She's not wrong. Just bring me a sleeve of saltines. I understood completely. And now I understand where I get this from. I really do. Because I get it. Okay. So they're eating milk and cookies.

And then what? So they're eating a little bit. They're not going hog wild, which I know is a disappointment to you. At one point, Nell and George's. overheard something. Their kidnappers were listening to the radio. And the radio carried the story of the kidnapping. Oh, and I bet they were mad.

I actually don't know how the kidnappers reacted to hearing that. Nell and George said there was a lot of whispering, but they couldn't make out what was said. Hours ticked by. If the kidnappers plan to stick to the threats that they'd made in the ransom letter, then Nell and George said, were in big trouble. It was clear that Paul hadn't paid the ransom.

And now it seemed that all of Kansas City was searching for them. The eyes of the nation were on Kansas City. Can I ask a question? Sure. Do they know where to send the money? Because they're demanding $75,000, but it's like, where do I go with it? Okay. So the ransom letter to Paul had said,

if you've got the money, meet us at, I believe it was 10 a.m. at that specific hotel, then stay there for 15 minutes, then go back home and await further instructions. Apparently, and I'd love to know a little bit more about Paul's health at this point, the story is that Paul was totally bored, totally bored, totally on board. This kidnapping is so boring. My God, can you spice it up a little? Geez, I just want to go back to the sauna, sweat this out.

You leave out one little word and it totally changes things. I mean, you could barely say grocery store owner. And there you go, just saying it beautifully. So the story goes that Paul was like, yep, no problem. I will do all of these things. But also the story also goes that, oh, he totally wanted to do it. He was totally game, totally going to. But he was super sick.

And he just was not in the condition to do that. That's. suspicious and weird. Part of me feels like, okay, was he really sick, in which case I'm being the biggest asshole ever. Another part of me thinks, this guy's just a mess. I would lean to mess. Couldn't he just send somebody else? So that was, that was also the plan, send James Taylor, but that was not what was specified in the ransom letter. The ransom letter was not like, hey, Paul, go here at this time and do this thing, or, you know, anyone else, you know, just send someone else. That's totally fine.

Yeah. You know, I heard the grocery store orator is a really cool guy. You are the most evil husband. There has ever been. No, no, I'm not. No, you're not. On a scale of one to ten. How good of a husband am I?

Ten. Ooh. What? So he had not gone to the hotel. He had not followed the ransom letter, you know, because he was bored of shit. He was too. He's like, fuck, this is stupid. I just want to bang women in my wife's PJs.

Ew. Well, that's what he was doing. No, I know, I know, but still, ew, yes. So, were the kidnappers nervous? They should have been! But, at the same time, the thing that was driving all of that panic, the thing that had James A. Reed, threatening gangsters, the thing that had men driving all over the city, threatening other known criminals,

was the simple fact that they actually didn't know who'd done this. They didn't have a clue. They had nothing. Well, if they're from out of town and they don't know any other criminals, yeah, these are some wild cards. Well, I will say they don't know they're from out of town. Yeah, but like John Lazia's, you know, probably sending his delivery boys with their Tommy guns around. Sure. Just like, hey, boss, I got no leads.

Hey, I don't know. I don't know where anybody is. Wow, yeah. I talked to Alfredo Jerry. He said he didn't know. I went to Linguini Tom. He said, beats me. So, yeah.

So what's the mafia doing? They have no leads? No. Man, tough. And then, like, we don't even know where these guys are. You said, you know, Nell was hearing pigs and chickens or cows. And cows doing stuff. Doing stuff.

Heard of roar. Uh-huh. which could have been a street car, apparently. So, yeah, that's really confusing. More time passed. Nell and George had been held captive for 24 hours, and then 25, and then 26. And soon it was nighttime again. They still weren't sure who was holding them captive or how many people were holding them captive.

They were only sure that they wanted to go home. They wanted to go home. They wanted to go home. Yeah. And then, at 3.30. a.m. On December 18th, three masked men burst into the little cottage. What? The men were evidently so scary that the kidnappers fled the scene. Yikes. Even the kidnappers ran. One of the masked men went up to Nell Donnelly. He removed her blindfold and he said, Mrs. Donnelly, there has been a mistake.

These men are from out of town. You have a lot of of friends. We have come to rescue you. Holy shit. And with that, Nell and George were led out to a car. Their three rescuers never identified themselves. Wow. Maybe there was the Ninja Turtles. Now, it could have been. Were these men a little slimy? Were they green? Yeah. Did one of them kind of sound like a surfer dude, you know? With her blindfold removed, Nell was able to get a better look at where they'd been held captive. She looked before they got into the vehicle. They'd been on a farm.

Huh. Well, I mean, she heard pigs and chickens and cows, so. Sure. And, you know, in hindsight, they realized, Nell and George realized, that roar had to have been some kind of farm equipment. Yeah, that makes sense. Their rescuers drove and drove. And when they got to the intersection of Kansas Avenue and

Armordale in Kansas, Mm-hmm. The driver instructed Nell and George to get out and start walking. What? Why? What do you mean? Why? Let them out and start walking?

Yeah. Did they not want to, like, cross into Missouri? Is that what's going on? I don't think that would have been a factor. Why do you think they did this? Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Here's my prediction. Okay. Those three masked men knew the kidnappers. But they also knew the Kansas City Mafia. And they were like, oh shit, oh, fuck, we're fucked. Okay, we need to go release them. And no one needs to know what happened to them. Like, no one needs to know who rescued them.

So they drop them off and drive away. You are making me say things a little early here. But no, that's good. That's good. Okay. So the prevailing theory is, yeah, they were rescued by the mafia. And the mafia is not going to be like, hello, hey, here's my government name. I'm the one who rescued Nell Donnelly.

Oh, and you need me to testify at trial? Sure. I'm here fully identified. No. Mafia's not going to do that. Mafia is going to rescue you? drop you off and make sure that you get picked up by the police who are the ones who should have been solving the crime, but it's Kansas City in 1931, and they don't do that. No, actually, they beat innocent black women and ram sack their home for no reason and steal their shit.

Yeah. Is it ransack or ram sack? Ransack. Okay, gotcha. But I get the temptation to say ram sack because you are ramming through the house, you know, knocking shit over, yeah. Whoever invented that word should have called it ram sack. Makes more sense. So that's the prevailing story.

One thing I thought that was really, really interesting was that story that I just told of they take the blindfold off of her. They say, hey, these men are from out of town. We're here to rescue you. Yeah. That's the story that has emerged later. The story that I read in newspaper articles from this time, like right after they were rescued, George and Nell both did not tell that type of story. What did they say?

They told a little bit more of a confusing story, which I think makes sense. I mean, you're totally disoriented. Who knows how much sleep they got in those 34 hours. But they seemed to be more leaning toward the idea that these guys had kidnapped them, got spooked, and then dropped them off somewhere. Which I think also makes sense. Yeah, I'm kind of leaning. Like I said, I feel like it maybe somewhere in the middle of those two stories. Yes, because...

Definitely not the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I think that theory is a little far-fetched. It's just a little far-fetched. It could have happened. We can't roll it out, but we're not going to go with it. Nope. That wouldn't be good history. Right.

So, yeah, I'm with you. I feel like it could be a. mix of stuff. Mm-hmm. And we'll get more into that later. Damn. Your podcast. Teasing.

Mm-hmm. So the driver tells him to get out and start walking. You said that someone would find them soon. Nell and George walked for 20 minutes. I mean, that's pretty far from her house. Oh, yeah. They weren't trying to drop her off close to home. Yeah, I know.

I'm just saying. They're not trying to get caught. That sucks. Yeah, this is, you know, Uh, four in the morning, pretty rural area. Yeah, it would be rural back then. Mm-hmm. That place, that area's kind of built up now, but.

Not a ton, though. Not a ton, but definitely more than back then, sure. So Nell and George walked for 20 minutes, cold, traumatized, but safe-ish. They spotted a 24-hour diner up ahead. Oh man, I love a good diner. It was called the American Cafe. Mm, sounds great already. Does it claim to have the best burger in town?

You know, I saw old-timey pictures of it. It looked like a cute little place. We should go to a diner sometime. All right, I'm available. Take my wife out on a hot date. Get her a grilled cheese sandwich and a cup of coffee. When they got there, a police car pulled up. The police chief and three detectives jumped down.

out. The police had been tipped off that they would find Nell and George on that road. Ah. But Nell and George weren't happy to see the police. They'd been through too much. They'd been held captive for 34 hours. So when the police tried to get her into their vehicle, Nell was like, nope, I need to see your IDs first. You know what? I get that completely. And I bet George was not too peachy keen about getting in the police car either. Oh, yeah. We're going to to get to him. Oh, boy. George had a worse time of it. And I think we are getting like the nicest possible version of this. George said that they took him away from Nell Donnelly. So, you know,

she's not able to see what's going on with him. They verbally abused him. They accused him of having a hand in the crime. And it's honestly hard to say what took their suspicion off of George, aside from the fact that he really was a victim, he didn't do anything. But at some point, they must have realized that he really was a victim in this. Yeah. I say that we're getting the cleaned up version a little bit because Savannah spoke about what happened to her to the black newspapers. She had neighbors who'd seen it all.

And I... Well, one guy had beat up. Yeah. Yeah. And I wonder if George, like, all of this stuff I read, you know, all of his quotes, he just struck me as so stoic. And maybe part of that is just you're in shock. you're in survival mode, but I just got the vibe that he's not the type to pour his heart out.

Sure. So, Nell and George were safe now. Shoo. No ransom money had been paid. That was big. But also, where had they been held? And by whom? Answering that question would have been a lot tougher if it hadn't been for a towel that Nell happened to be holding

when the police approached them. A towel? Yeah. So in the chaos of being taken out of that cottage, put into a vehicle, left on the side of the road to go walking, Nell was still clinging to a towel that the kidnappers had used to blindfold her. That's what one source said. Another source said that the towel was something that they'd allowed her to wrap around herself because she'd gotten a little cold. Okay.

So the police were like, could we take a look at that towel? And she handed it over to them. and they looked at it. Mm-hmm. And unbelievably, there was a name on it. Can you believe that? A freaking inscribed towel? There was...

Embroidery on the towel? There was a laundry mark on it. The name on the towel read Bewinger. Incredible. Buinger family farm. Oh, Norm, you're a step ahead. Investigators discovered that a man with that last name owned a farm in Bonner Springs, Kansas.

Bonner Springs. Yep. Yep. Ooh. Just, yeah, so that's, I mean, for anyone not around here, that's fairly close and rural. It all makes sense. Just a few years earlier, he'd put a house on his farm, a shitty little four-room cottage. With cherubs. Complete with cherubs.

And then they discovered that Mr. Buinger was renting that cottage out. to a guy named Paul Sheet. Paul Sheet. Holy Sheet. S-C-H-E-I-D-T. Sheet? Oh, Sheet. I don't know.

Ha-ha-ha. I mean, even if it was pronounced shite. Sure. That's funny, too. So they drove out to that cottage. And Paul was conveniently right there. Hello. Just waving?

No, identified the cottage as the place that she and George had been held. She pointed out the table where she'd been forced to write the ransom letters. She recognized the cot she'd slept on and the radio that had captivated the kidnappers. I guess they should have kept her blindfolded the whole time, huh, Norm? Yeah. Oh, imagine that. She wouldn't have been able to identify any of this stuff if they just kept her blindfolded. Meanwhile, investigators talked to Paul. And like a cashew that had been left out in the rain, he quickly cracked.

What the hell? What? Yeah, you know, how some nuts are tough nuts to crack. He was not because he was like a cashew that had been left out in the rain. I would argue. It's a thing that people say. I would argue if you left a cashew out in the rain, it would just get soggy. And it would not crack anymore.

It would just kind of crumble. Okay. Well, it had been more of a sprinkling. And they did have to apply some pressure. Okay, it's not that easy. They don't just arrive on the scene and Paul's just telling the tail. They have to put a little pressure on him. This whole metaphor just falls apart.

Wow. Just falls completely apart. I disagree. I am the woman who came to you with the delightful phrase, our discord is popping like a bubble-wrapped dolphin. Clearly, I don't say ridiculous things. That was good. That was good. So Paul's squealing like a pig on the farm.

He was like, okay. It was not my idea. It was not my idea. William Lacey Browning is a guy who approached me with this idea, and he didn't even come up with the idea himself. He got the idea from Martin DePue, okay? And the police were like, all right, who is Martin DePue? Start looking into him.

Turns out he had helped construct the Nelson Atkins Art Museum. As just a construction worker? He was a steam shovel operator, which seems like a big deal. Toot, Toot. I was going to say, is he accusing, like, the architect of the Nelson Adkins? No, that would be amazing. I mean, that would be crazy. Okay, so he's just a construction worker.

Just a construction worker, he was a steam shovel operator. That doesn't seem like just everybody's a steam shovel operator. I don't know why I'm defending a kidnapper. I don't know why either. Anyway. Is this farm still around, by the way? Is the house still around? Okay, I, they, ugh, these old-timey sources.

had the addresses for everything. Yeah. I couldn't find one for that cottage. But I remember when I covered this for Let's Go to Court, I feel like we found the address for the cottage. Hmm. So I'm going to have to look into it. Okay.

Stay tuned, folks. Stay tuned. There will be a part three, so. Yeah. Possibly a part 17. Who knows? Oh, boy. I mean, she's already free.

How much more is there not to say? It's just an hour straight of me trying to say, grocery store owner. I had to think. I had to think so hard. You did. You were really racking your brain. So, yeah, he'd been a steam shovel operator, which you don't respect, but I do.

And he must not. I didn't say that. He must have not been very good because he'd been recently pretty unemployed, you know. Get a little spotty. Oh, okay. And uh-oh. Uh-oh, Norm. Get this.

His wife, Ethel, was a nurse. And guess who she'd recently treated? Nell Donnelly? Paul Donnelly. Oh, Paul Donnell. What was the end for? I mean. Veneerial disease?

Oh, I don't know. But she had worked in the Donnelly home. I believe it was between Christmas and New Year's of 1930. So she'd seen the home. She'd seen how nice everything was. She saw that dog run. She was like, holy shit. Oh, my gosh.

What are they doing on this dog run? Word got out that the. the police were looking for Martin and Ethel DePue. Mafia boss John Lazia had said all along that the people who'd done this had to be out of towners. But that turned out to not be true. They were in towners, but they were just first time criminals maybe? What I feel like I've gathered from this is, first of all, they were all locals.

I think maybe they were just kind of low-level, not super connected. criminals. I doubt that this is like their first crime. I don't know. They took the blindfold off Nell Donnelly. Yeah. They had a long way to go. It's pretty stupid if you ask me. So yeah, they were local, except Martin and Ethel weren't local anymore. They'd fled the city. Yeah. Shortly after Nell and George were set free, they just, whoop, bye. But as word got out and spread to newspapers all over the nation that the depuse were being looked for, Ethel got worried. She talked to an attorney, and then she called the police. You know where they should look for these?

Where? Churches. Why? Depews. Check deputes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That was, I fell for it. I hate that. I was like, does he have some insight here? He didn't. He didn't. He had a dumb dad joke.

Oh, check depuse. You got it, boss. I'm heading to every church. Oh, my God. This stinks. Okay. Ethel was staying. Sorry about that. Okay, yeah.

Thank you. I think we all deserve an apology. Ethel was staying at her sister's home in Pennsylvania, the first church of God. Sorry. You're adding on to my stupid joke? That was terrible. I'm not even giving you a rim shot for that one. No, I don't deserve it.

Okay. You don't. She told the police. that her gem of a husband had left her in Buffalo of all places with $2 when she refused to cross the border into Canada with him. And if you're thinking- She refused? Yeah. She's like-

But that's her ticket to freedom. Okay. Maybe. If she's really involved in this and she had a hand in this, then yeah, we got to get to freedom. Oh, I didn't. Yeah, I didn't realize. Okay. It's possible that she's not really.

I'm presuming guilty until proven innocent. My bad, that's not how this country works. Well, it kind of is. Sometimes it does work that way. But anyway, let's not talk about that. Okay. So he's in Canada then, huh? Yeah, seems like it.

And I just want to clarify. So he left her with $2. And in case anyone's thinking, well, is that a lot? No, adjusted for inflation, $41. Your husband abandons you. and he leaves you with $41. That's a good meal at Taco Bell right there. You're right.

A damn good meal at Taco Bell. Well, for me, it might be like one meal at Taco Bell. You're like, you know what? This Martin guy, he doesn't seem too bad. Police brought Ethel back to Kansas City and charged her with two counts of kidnapping. They did the same thing with William Lacey Browning and Paul Sheet. Soon, a story emerged.

The plan all along had been to kidnap Paul Donnelly. but Paul was sick that day and didn't leave the house. So when the car pulled up in the driveway, they were just like, this is it. It's Paul Donnellie. Let's get them, boys. And they went in and they're like, oh, it's Nell. No. They were waiting for him to leave the house.

They're thinking he's like a normal businessman. I thought he was in the home and that he'd come out and go to work. Right. Right. Oh, shit. Because, okay, in our last episode, I talked about how Nell Donnelly said again and again to the kidnappers, I can't believe you kidnapped a woman.

I can't believe you kidnapped a woman. And they're like, we can't either. Yeah, yeah. And they're a little bit like, yeah, sorry. I know it sucks. It's not very, not very chivalrous of us to kidnap a woman. Yeah. But no, like I said, there had been other kidnappings in Kansas City that year, but it had

all been men. Yeah. And so, yeah, the plan had been to kidnap Paul, but Paul did not leave the house that day. So when Nell and George showed up, it was like, okay, well, we'll kidnap them. Yeah, improvise. As for how the Kansas City Mafia figured out where Nell and George were being held. Yeah, this is what I want to know.

Okay. So it's a little tough to say what exactly the kidnappers did that tipped off the mafia because it's not like the mafia is like, hello, everyone, here is the tale. Here's the true tale. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. They're going to be talking about this stuff. The most commonly cited reason, the reason that the plot came crumbling down around them, was because at some point in this kidnapping, one of the kidnappers made a phone call to a restaurant. And yada yada yada, words seems to have gotten out from that phone call. What?

What? What did he tell? What did he say to the restaurant people? Well, whatever it was, it was an Italian. and Paul, who was the guy who took the kidnapper to go make the phone call, didn't speak Italian. So he didn't know. My initial thought was, oh, my God, did these guys order food from the restaurant? Because that just gives me all the tingles.

Because that... That gives you tingles? Well, it's just funny because, again, when you look at enough true crime stuff and you look at how people get caught when they're trying to go. So, you know, underground. Yeah. You would not believe the number of people who get caught because they order a domino's pizza, Norm. It's the perfect trap. But I really don't think they were ordering food.

What do you think they were doing? Just chit-chatting? I mean. Why else would you call a restaurant? They could have been ordering food. They could have also been giving an update on how things were going. To somebody at the restaurant? Yeah.

So somebody at the restaurant was involved in the... Owner of the restaurant. Maybe we... Huh. So police had Paul, William, and Ethel in custody. Ethel's husband still nowhere to be found. But the Kansas City justice system was like, to-toot, that's fine. We don't need everyone to be here to get this train in motion.

Fun fact, after Nell and George were found, good grief. James A. Reed does this press conference where he's like, yeah, I'm ready for a hanging. I'm ready for a hanging. And of course, Paul Donnelly is right next to him, not nearly as. fired up as he is. But he was obligated to say something. So he was like, I am also in favor of the hanging. He's like, yeah, all right.

I also love my wife just as much as you do, sir. On that same newspaper, I saw a different article where the chief of police was interviewed. And boy, this was something. His interview basically was like, yeah, this seems to have been, mafia connected and they were going against the rules of the mafia. And when that happens, sometimes you end up dead on the road, you know, out somewhere. So the police chief is basically saying, hey, mafia, take care of these guys yourselves. Ah.

That's how I interpret it. Yeah. And I think it's a pretty straightforward interpretation. Open season, go gun these people down. Yeah. Yeah. Nevertheless, in February of 1932, Paul Sheep. went on trial.

Prosecuting attorney James Page, because everyone's named James, my God, was ready. In his opening statement, he told the jury that Paul deserved the death penalty. His first witness, Nell Donnelly. I feel like the death penalty is a little harsh for kidnapping. Yeah? Yeah, and they didn't, like, she was unharmed. Yeah. Seems a little extreme to me.

Yeah, I'm not in favor of the death. penalty ever really. Mm-hmm. I do think sometimes, especially back in these old-timey cases, literally nothing is made of emotional suffering, emotional trauma. Like a lot of these cases, people are like, well, hold on, you lived, right? And you're unharmed? Well, okay.

And I say unharmed, but again, I don't think you can get out of this unharmed. No, absolutely not. But back then, emotional trauma hadn't been invented yet. It's true. It's true. Nell's testimony wasn't super damning. In fact, it really wasn't damning at all. She said that Paul wasn't one of the men who guarded her and that she actually hadn't seen him until she went back to the farm with police after the whole thing was over. And Paul is the guy that owns the farm. He's the guy who's renting the farm. He's the guy that's renting the farm. And he's the guy who was like, yes, okay, I did it, but it was not my idea. I just was giving him the house to do whatever they wanted.

Is that a crime? Oh, shit. It is. It is okay. Accessory. When the defense took over, they brought out a bunch of character witnesses who testified on Paul's behalf. And then Paul took the stand. And he was like, yeah, okay, I agreed to let other people use my house to do something bad. But in my defense, I thought we were going to kidnap some oil man, an oil man who was in on this whole thing. An oil man.

Yeah, yeah. You know, the kind of oil man who just wanted to get some money out of his cheap-ass wife. So, you know, we were going to kind of kidnap him. Using air quotes, get the money from the wife. Bing, bang, boom. Who's mad? No one. I didn't know we were going to kidnap a woman.

Oh, shut up. He made that up. What do you think they were going to kidnap John D. Rockefeller or something? An oil man. Yeah, he just thought they were going to kidnap some rich dude. That's not a defense, though. They still kidnapped somebody. Sure.

Sure. Do you want to hear the rest of his tale? Yeah. Are you going to make stuff up? Are you going to tell us what you are? I just, the only made-up part was I love chauffeurs, my mom's chaufer, and that was hilarious. Oh, was it? Yes.

I only learned who they were by seeing their names in the paper. I was just horrified by this whole thing. In fact, three times I told those bad boys to let them go, but they told me to shut up, and they said they'd kill me. Uh-huh. What? Paul's just a good guy. And then they told me to shut up. And then they told me that the cherubs were really creepy and dumb.

That's just how I like to decorate my home. Yeah. Then Paul's attorneys did something really interesting. They were like, sorry, I really hate to do this. I truly do. But Paul's home is in Bonner Springs, Kansas. Kansas. And we here are in Missouri. Missouri, yep. And you know, fun fact, kidnapping is not a federal crime yet. So what are we even doing here? But the kidnapping took place in Missouri, right?

Sure. So wouldn't the trial be in Missouri? Did Paul do that part? Did Paul conspire in Missouri to do this? Did Paul object Nell Donnelly in Missouri? All this red tape. If he didn't. If his only crime was in Kansas, then we need to leave that to the Kansas courts. What do you think? I bet the judge was like, I don't give a shit. Oh, that's exactly what I mean, that's basically it.

Yeah. Yeah, so this trial took place seven months before the Lindbergh law went into effect. That was the law that made kidnapping a federal crime. Because, I mean, truly, a smart thing to do would be. be to kidnap someone. If you're on the border, kidnap someone in one place, take them to, take them across state lines, bank on the idea that the police departments don't communicate with one another because they often don't. Now, if the Kansas City Mafia decides they're going to help with the kidnapping and solve that, then the Kansas City Mafia doesn't give a shit about

state lines. So you're screwed there, but it's not a bad plan. Gangsters without borders. It's a great nonprofit. They do such good work. Kristen, it's amazing. I feel like we can relate everything to my testicle bonus episode. You're always bringing it back to your balls. What's what he got now? One of the men who claimed his testicles were stolen, Charles Ream.

Uh-huh. He was in jail for smuggling stolen cars across state lines. Mm-hmm. And that had only recently become a federal crime. Because, yeah, all the thieves were like, yeah, I'm going to go steal a car in Missouri and then drive it to Kansas and then like nanny nana boo-boo. You know. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I get it.

I understand. I have context. That's what context is important. That's why a three-hour-long episode about testicles is so important for everyone's education. I believe it was like two hours, 35 minutes, but. Oh, I guess I was lied to about the size. So, give me that, give me that rim shot. There we go.

You get that. Can't be mad. I feel like I can relate every topic we do to that testicle episode in some way. The six degrees of separation of testicles. Thinking about balls now, aren't you? No, I'm trying to find where I am in this case. Okay, here we go. So, yeah, just as you predicted, the judge was like, nice try.

He's like, I can't remember. what exactly the judge said. You didn't say anything. He just gave a hefty chuckle. No, he was basically like, if I went with you on that argument, then I would be sending a very clear message to criminals everywhere. Like, this is how you do it. This is how you get away with it. So no, you're not getting away with murder.

That's what the show was all about. That's right. She was like, oh, just go across the state line. You'll be fun. And that was the end of the show. That was it. The jury deliberated for six and a half hours. What do you think they found?

What is he being accused of? What is he charged with? Kidnapping. Oh, not guilty. Oh. They deadlocked. It was a mistrial. Yep.

Paul needed to be tried again. But you may be wondering, whatever happened to Ethel's douchebag husband Martin. Turns out... He's chowin down on Poutine in Toronto or something. Really, Norm, turns out he was not in Canada. He'd never gone to Canada. What?

Instead, he'd stayed in New York and got a job on a ship which set sail for South Africa. Damn, this guy really took off. This is incredible. And when the ship stopped in Durban, South Africa, Martin was like, he-he-he-he-he-he. I am leaving. Bye-bye, bye-bye. But then, police captured him in Johannesburg, South Africa. So Martin was brought back to Kansas City.

I mean, I hate to do a hats off, but hats off to you. You got really far, but boy, you messed up. I'm amazed that he was arrested and sent back to the United States. Like, how did the police in Johannesburg know he was a wanted man? I'm guessing this was ship-related. Ship-related? Well, I don't know. but I'm guessing he was a total idiot and probably used his real name when he got that job on the ship.

And I'm guessing that that somehow got out. And maybe when they stopped to port or however ships work, you know, they got an old-timey, you know, phone call. Yeah. Hey, Martin DePuse wanted back in Kansas City for kidnapping. That's how everyone talked back then. Yes, it's true. Very good. So then, you know, those big buff sailor boys, they came after him.

Like Popeye. Yeah. Okay. That's just my guess. Okay. Interesting theory. Thank you. Anyway, besides the point, he is arrested.

He's back in the U.S. Back in the U.S. of A. And boy, was he scared, because if a jury found him guilty, he would definitely get the death penalty. And the case against him was stronger than the one against Paul. and he didn't want to take that chance. So he was like, I am pleading guilty. And that very same day, William Lacey Browning was like, I'll have what he's having. I am also guilty.

So are these plea deals? Like, hey, give me a lighter sentence if I admit that I did it? Well, I mean, the lighter sentence is we don't hang you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you don't plead guilty. And then get the death penalty. What if the guy is like suicidal?

I mean, yeah, I did it. Let's get that rope back. William was sentenced to 25 years in prison, and Martin got life in prison. And then, because bad boys come in threes, they arrested another guy, a man named Walter W. Werner, and he also pled guilty and got a life sentence. As part of their sentencing agreements, Martin and William and Walter promised to testify in future trials regarding this kidnapping. and promised seems like a silly word to use. They pinky promised that they would do it. Wait, there's going to be more trials about this?

Yeah, Paul. Seems like they've gotten everybody. No. Paul, that was a mistrial. So they're going to have to try him again. Ethel, freaking Ethel, we're suspicious to her. Yeah, I was wondering about Ethel. She hasn't gotten to trial yet.

Yeah, and the thing that's a little tough here is three men, for sure, abducted Nell and George, but they heard more than three voices. Yeah. And you kind of have to know there were more than three people involved. But who do we have evidence against? And the other tough thing is we don't have a lot of evidence against anybody. Yeah. But let's keep on going.

Thank God they just admitted their guilt. I mean, made it a little easier. Sure, sure. And I think, you know, there was good evidence against these guys. Okay. So when Paul's second trial rolled around, Martin testified, that Paul definitely knew they were kidnapping a woman. He knew it all along.

William testified that Paul was unpleasantly surprised that they were kidnapping a woman. Walter testified that Paul had no idea they were kidnapping a woman. Three different answers. Yep. Jury deliberated for two hours. What did they find, Norm? Not guilty.

There we go. Afterward, prosecutor James Page was pissed. He said, I'm amazing. by the verdict. It is the greatest miscarriage of justice since I have been in office. When a man can come in court and admit he is guilty of kidnapping and a jury turns him loose, it appears as if law-abiding people haven't any protection against the criminal element. What do you make of Paul getting acquitted? Sounds like he did a good job convincing the jury that he actually had nothing to do of this and he wasn't a fan and he can't believe they kidnapped Neldonnelly. And, you know, he did admit, yeah, it was my place and yeah, I let him use it. But I wanted nothing to do with this kidnapping.

I think this is pure bullshit. Well, I agree. It's bullshit, but like he must have convinced the jury. It makes me wonder if you're on a jury and you know that the prosecution is trying to get this guy the death penalty. And maybe this is just a situation where the jury is deciding is deciding is deciding guilty or not guilty. They don't get a hand in the sentencing. I can't remember when you do get to say and when you don't. If I were in that position as a juror and I thought, okay, this guy definitely did this, but he should not die for it. Yeah. Then yeah, I might be like, you know what? I'm going with not guilty. Even though, of course, he's guilty. So you're saying they're they're thinking the punishment doesn't fit the crime, so they're going to say not guilty.

Potentially. Okay. Assuming that this jury didn't get a say in his sentencing. So, the prosecutor was upset, but that was nothing compared to the anger that James A. Reed felt he wanted justice. He wanted these people to pay. He was a powerful man. God damn it. Why wasn't everything working itself out? I mean, he's got three guilty verdicts. Well, he's got three plea deals. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty good.

Yeah. Calm down, James. You're feeling a little out of control, though. Well, he did flop his dong out. Yeah, and it resulted in some good things. Especially for Nell. Okay, that's enough. One thing kept coming up again and again.

It was the idea that the police definitely hadn't caught everybody. Paul had initially confessed to police, and in that confession, he'd said that he'd taken one of the kidnappers to his workplace in Bonner Springs. And from there, the kidnapper had made a phone call to a restaurant. He said the conversation had been in Italian. And those guys that pled guilty, none of them spoke Italian. Oh, I don't know about that. When investigators looked at the phone records, they discovered that the phone call had been to a restaurant called Central Lunch, and that the man who owned the place was a guy named Vic Bonura. Investigators wanted Vic Bonura. They wanted him bad. He was clearly involved.

They had to find him. They had to find him. But God damn it, where was he? He was just here a minute ago. Well, investigators were in a bit of a pickle. They needed Vic. Couldn't find Vic. Basic ethics might dictate that they were out of luck. But the investigators didn't feel that way. If they couldn't find Vic and put him on trial, they'd just do the next best thing. They'd put a friend of his on trial.

What? That's a friend of his. Close associate. Uh-huh. A man named Charles Mele. Melee? In next week's episode? We look ourselves in the mirror and we say, Let's finish going to court.

And the complicated love square between Nell and Paul Donnelly and James and Lura Reid collapses in on itself like a dying star. Warning, if you're not into age gap romances, you'll hate next week's episode. See you then. Woo! Woo! Well, fascinating.

Really? What a wild tale. I'm excited for next week's episode because it's kind of like everything kind of settles down with this kidnapping stuff. And then we get into it. And then the mess of life begins. I don't know. I don't know more about this love square. It's a mess.

It's already a mess. I know it's a mess. It gets even messier. Oh, man. Someone brought pudding What hell does that mean? It gets messier. You ever eaten pudding?

You're acting like a man who's never seen pudding. I don't eat pudding like a slob though. I don't like it snuffed all over my face or anything. How do you eat pudding? Well, I mean, sometimes things drop. Yeah, it's impossible to get chocolate out. Anyway, Kristen, good news. What is it?

We pulled the history hose about our post-episode banter. Yeah. And the hose love it. Yay! Yeah, they want more. banter. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Well, I don't really have anything new to say, so. I don't either. Kristen, you know what they say in the history? What? No! I'm just kidding. I actually did want to talk about something that came up in our subreddit. That subreddit is dead to me. Oh, because you heard about it, huh?

Yes, you told me about it. I was disgusted. Everyone, get your vomit bags. I guess Norm wants to talk about some terrible... I do. I thought it was hilarious. By the way, if you're not on our subreddit, it's our... slash old-timey podcast, and it is a rootin-tootin good time. Mm-hmm.

Promise you. So please head on over there and join. We are almost at a thousand members. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, we almost are, except I'm going to get Reddit shut down. You're going to get Reddit shut down? Single-handedly. TikTok gone.

Now Reddit gone. Because that person compared you to my father. I'm horrified. Tell them all. Tell them, Norm. Calm down. Calm down. Let me go over the situation.

here. Okay, so somebody made a post in our subreddit, and the topic was, it has been said that we marry our parent. Does Norm remind anyone else of DP, aka Darrell Pitts, aka your father, Kristen. Uh-huh, yeah. Here's what the post says. This will make more sense to the people who also listen to Let's Go to Court, Kristen's old podcast. Where we got to know Darrell Pitts. As I am now getting to know Norm on an old-timey podcast, he reminds me a lot of DP. And every time he says sexy, it sounds just like when DP says it. Anyone else thinks so? Now, I read this post and I was cracking up. And then I went to you. You were in the kitchen, I think, cutting peppers. Yeah, it was an innocent time. It was a simpler time back then yesterday. And I was like, hey, check out

this post on our sub-eddit, and your reply was, Ew, no, what? That's a good impression, actually. So what do you think? Am I your father? Okay, that's disgusting. Stop it. No, the worst thing is that, of course, they're kind of right. I mean, every now, don't you, don't you see ways that I'm like your mother? What? No. Oh, see, it's not as fun when it happens to you, is it? How are you like my mother?

You don't think I'm a little like your mom? In what way? You have to give me examples. You can't just be like, hey, I'm just like your mom, right? And not tell me why, why? Why do you think that? I mean, you both, like, kiss similarly. Ew!

I'm sorry, I had to. You're both great and bad. Okay. No, we're not going there. You started. Kissing's innocent. Okay, okay. No, I think there's a stubbornness that we both have.

Okay, yeah, I can see that. There's a passion. Like your mom is super into quilting, and obviously I'm not into quilting, but kind of that personality that, like, maybe we're not interested in a ton of stuff, but oh shit, here's something, and we want to know all about it.

We're all in obsessed. What is that thing for you? Old timey stories, bitch. No, no. You know what it might be for you? What? Makeup. You think so?

Makeup and skin care beauty regimens. All right. If I have any question about skin care or beauty or anything in that realm, I can ask Kristen, and she'll know the answer. Even like men's skin care stuff, you know everything. Listen, darling, your questions are always very basic. It is. I'm like, my skin is dry and itchy.

What do I do? And Chris is like lotion. Yeah. I mean, that's literally the level we're talking about. Yeah. Okay. So maybe we shouldn't be too impressed by your knowledge of that. No.

Okay. But you and my dad. I was horrified by the number of people who commented on that Reddit post about how they think that my dad and you say the word sexy in the exact same way. I don't think we do. I don't want to think about it. I don't want it to be true. And so I choose for it not to be. Also, I don't really hate the person who wrote that.

I think it's a very funny post. I'm just teasing. We have a soundbite of your dad saying sexy. Yeah. How wonderful. Sexy times. Yeah, you say it. Sexy times.

Yeah, I don't think it sounds the same. Sexy times. Sexy times. Okay, I don't think it sounds the same. But am I being like the mother of twins where I'm like, well, of course I can tell them apart. That's Davy and that's David. But no one else can. You named your twins Davy and David?

We just established I'm not the brightest fault. Now, here's what I want to say. I don't think I'm like your dad. But we get along very well. I love hanging out with your dad. I feel like we're good buddies. Yeah. But I don't think we're like similar.

Like we have different personalities. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think you two are very similar at all. Do you think we kiss the same one? Stop it. That's not. If you make that joke, I'll go even grosser. No, don't.

Don't. Please don't. Please don't. Don't start something you can't finish, buddy. You're right. You're right. Yeah, I did. It caused quite a lot of comments in our subreddit.

People were, some people were grossed out. Yes, the good people of the world were grossed out. Others just thought it was hilarious. I was kind of in that camp. I just thought it was funny. Yeah, you did, yeah. But others were like, yeah, I agree. I think.

Those are the worst people. Those are the people we've got to find their true idea. We've got to lock them up. We've got to put them on trial. Maybe we can put a custom, you know, you can do custom flares on subredits and we can give them a custom flare to mark them, to let the people know. Here's how they should be marked. Because I'm thinking their punishment should be that they have to get a nicely framed image

of cherubs, just fat little baby angels just whizzing through the air. And they have to display it in their home. that is their punishment for sharing a bad opinion on Reddit. That's the punishment? Yeah, yeah, cherubs. Some people wouldn't see that as a punishment. Well, I don't know what's doing it. Well, okay.

We'll figure out how to mark those evil people. I was just thinking like maybe a flare that just like love my mom or love my dad or something like that. Okay. Yeah. I want to marry my mom. I want to marry my dad. Oh, well, that's slightly different. I really ate them, you know.

No, I'm just kidding. I love all the conversation going on our subreddit. Please get over there and join. It is a fun time. It is fun. I'm just a lurker. I need to actually join. Kristen's big time lurker.

Well, in fairness to me, disgusting conversations are happening. I want no part of it. My God. But you can't look away. You can't look away. That's true. I couldn't look away. Anything else you want to touch on?

No, I think this has been fun. I'm really excited for part three. Which I'm pretty sure is going to be the last episode of this series. Don't even. Don't even. Nope. I'm like 80%. No. I don't like those odds.

The grocery store owner wrote it down, said, just do three parts, Christen. And I said, that's fine. I will. Imagine that guy in a job interview, that guy or gal. And they look under previous employment. And they're like, oh, what did you? So it says here you were a grocery star. owner.

What is, how do you say this? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. A grocery store owner. Oh, interesting, interesting. I hate how jealous I am of how easily you said that. You were looking at me. This was a series of words I did not know.

I could not say. Well, now you know. Yeah. We'll help you out. Now everyone knows. Me and the history owes will help you get there, Kristen. You know what's going to happen? In our Discord, we, so in our Discord, we have a section where people can suggest,

ideas. I'm going to be flooded with only stories about grocery store owners. Yep. Kristen, do the history of Channing Kroger. The man who started the Kroger... He's actually not interesting. It's a super boring story.

We just want to hear you struggle. That's right. Yeah, a little winky emoji, you know. Kristen, you know what they say about history hosts. We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from Nellie Gone. KCQ traces the kidnapping of Nell Donnelly by Kate Hill for the Kansas City Public Library. Reporting from the Kansas City Times. The book More Than Petticoats, Remarkable Missouri Women by Elaine Warner,

the book James A. Reed, legendary lawyer Marplot in the United States Senate by J. Michael Cronin. The article, First a Lady by Jennifer Wilding for the Kansas City Star magazine, and a whole bunch of other sources. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe.

Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, our slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old-Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. I'm Kristen Pitts-Keruso and he's gaming historian.

And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio! Bye! Bye!