An Old Timey Podcast - 4: John Brown’s Raid on Harpers Ferry (Part 3)

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

In part three of Norm’s coverage of John Brown, shit *officially* hits the fan. After years of planning, John Brown leads his men in a raid on the federal armory at Harpers Ferry, Virginia. Things quickly go awry. They shoot an innocent man. They get outnumbered. But John Brown refuses to back down.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: “Midnight Rising: John Brown and the Raid That Sparked the Civil War” by Tony Horwitz“To Purge This Land With Blood: A Biography of John Brown” by Stephen Oates“Five for Freedom: The African American Soldiers in John Brown’s Army” by Eugene L. MeyerThe John Brown Online Exhibit -  West Virginia Archives & History - https://archive.wvculture.org/history/jbexhibit/jbintroduction.htmlAre you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes for Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm her perfectly adequate hubby. Ew. Norman Caruso. I hate that word. What word hubby?

Yeah. Well, anyway, on this week's episode, I'll be talking about John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry. Bow-wow-wow! Oh, do we have that sound? Hell yeah I have Airhorn That's no problem at all We also have

I'm not doing it no Oh No I will not I'm not pressing a button Unless I have a specific reason To press a button Folks he listens to feedback You asked

I listened Wow How's it going? It's going well I'm really excited And also very nervous For this episode Oh yeah it's terrible

It's awful But before we get into the horribleness Shall we talk about our Patreon Oh yes Yes we should We just released a bonus episode On our Patreon An old-timey podcast Patreon

I mean people know if they're listening to this podcast Patreon.com slash old-timey podcast There we go, thank you Actually this is old timey so we should say H TTP H TTP-FORWWW Go on to the World Wide Web. That's patreon.com.

So yeah, we just released a bonus episode and a fun fact. If you sign up at the $5 level or higher, you get that bonus episode. You get a bunch of other stuff, but you get the bonus episode and you also get a video of that episode. Yeah, that's a new thing we're doing for our lovely patrons. This bonus episode was about hippos. Very fun bonus episode. And actually, I did mention during the episode, assassinating. hippos? And Kristen questioned my use of the word assassinating.

Yes, because they're not political figures. Well, no, no. The actual definition is it's the murder of a public figure. Uh-huh. And so after we recorded, I was thinking about it and I thought, if I'm ever killed, Kristen, the headline in the New York Times would be... Oh, the New York Times, huh? Okay. It would say, the gaming historian assassinated. Colon. No, that's it.

Oh, okay. So I think that's pretty cool. What's funny to me about this whole thing is like this is a real conversation that you and I had that night after we recorded the bonus episode. Yeah, we were going for a walk. Yeah. And there is so much that like you don't care about in regard to like being a public figure. There's so much that just like you, I mean, you don't have an ego on you at all. So it's just funny to me that the one thing you like about this is that if you're, you don't have an ego on you at all.

is that if you are murdered, it will be an assassination potentially. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Now, I didn't know you were thinking it would be in the New York Times. It would be big enough for New York Times, surely. Maybe not page one. Maybe like 8E or something. You think maybe world conflicts might take up that page one. It would be like right under Dilbert.

You know. Everyone's favorite comic. My favorite. Oh, yeah. Love Dilbert. Anyway, so this episode you're about to tell us about. Yeah, I'd like to go ahead and preemptively apologize for this episode. It is awful.

It's terrible. It's sad. I had a hard time writing jokes because every sentence I wrote, I was like, well, that's not funny. Yeah. And that's not funny. But hey, you know, you used to have a very original unique true crime podcast. So your fans might actually enjoy this. There's lots of death.

There's a very high body count. Is there really? Okay, well. Kristen, after listening to this episode, you may want to crawl into bed, turn off the lights, and watch kitchen nightmares for 12 hours. I know a man who does that. I might have to join him. Yeah, sometimes the jokes, you know, they don't come, and that's okay. I will say I loved last week's episode on John Brown.

It was fun. It was my favorite thing because it's all buildup. And I, as we established, I'm a little weenie girl. So when we're talking about, yeah, let's murder people who want slavery. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. But then when it comes time to the killing, I get really quiet and weird. And I just feel like that's what... You might be quiet and weird for the whole episode.

Great. Sorry, everybody. And I will be using the soundboard with serious sounds for this one. Oh, so not my dad saying sexy times? So like none of this. Sexy times. None of this. And definitely none of this. I'm about to bust.

It's not appropriate in this episode at all. I'm glad you got that out of your system. So anyway, this is part three of my story on John Brown. Once again, if you haven't listened to the previous parts, I highly recommend you do it. Take the 12 hours. It's worth it. Yeah. Everyone's got 12 hours. There's 24 in a day. But I will once again provide a brief summary of the last.

episode to get all you fresh hose caught up. By the way, we call all our listeners history hose, but if you are brand new to this podcast, as in you didn't listen to my very original true crime podcast before this, we call you fresh hose. Fresh steamy hose. Well, I just added steamy hose. So we welcome the fresh hose and the history hose alike. Yeah, welcome.

You're going to become history hose. You just start out fresh. All right. Take it away, Norm. Okay. Previously on an old-timey podcast. In 1857, after a violent few months in Kansas between pro-slavery and free staters, a.k.a. Free soilers.

Abolitionist John Brown, aka Osawatomi Brown, became infamous for his violent crusade to end slavery. He traveled east to Boston and met with wealthy abolitionists to raise money and continue the fight. But the conflict in Kansas was coming to an end. So John Brown set his sights on a new target, Harper's Ferry, Virginia. Brown wanted to seize the federal armory located in the town. In turn, he believed hundreds of enslaved people and white supporters would rally to him and join his army. Brown found support with six prominent abolitionists who agreed to fund his bold plan. They were known as the Secret Six.

Yeah. Excellent name. Brown spent the next few years trying to get his plan into motion. He hired an Englishman named Kenahue Forbes to train his army, but Forbes bailed when he stopped getting paid. He recruited new men for his army, like sexy buff boy, Aaron Stevens. Respected vegetarian, John Katie. Handsome spyman slash lover, John Cook. I heard he was a husband slash lover. Isn't that true?

At this point, when he was first recruited, he was not a husband. Just a lover. John Cook and 48-year-old Dangerfield Newby, a former enslaved man who wanted to free his family. John Brown also bought 950 knives on a stick for his attack. Also known as Kansas Butter Knives. By the man who made them and was making fun of John Brown. He was. When asshole Colonel Hugh Forbes threatened to expose John Brown's plan,

he took a year off and went back to Kansas to chill. He also rescued 11 enslaved people from Missouri and took them all the way to Canada, increasing his notoriety. By the summer of 1859, John Brown was ready for action. He took his small army of 21 men to Harper's Ferry, Virginia, where they hid in a tiny farmhouse for several more months and planned their attack. On the night of October 16, 1859, Brown told his threatening boys, men, get your arms. We will proceed to the ferry. They loaded up a wagon full of guns and knives on sticks and took off for Harper's ferry to seize the federal armory. Brown's holy war to end slavery was about to begin. Holy shit. Okay. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. I don't know why I'm so... Why? Are you nervous? No, I'm excited. And I know that

the feeling is going to go away immediately once the murdering starts. Yeah. Yeah, it sure is. All right. It was a cold, drizzly night on October 16th, 1859. Night watchman Bill Williams was patrolling the B&O... Bill Williams? His name was William Williams.

His name was William Williams. That's too bad. But he went by Bill. Obviously. Night watchman Bill Williams was patrolling the B&O Railroad. Bridge. And yes, Kristen, it's the exact same railroad from the Monopoly board game. We were all blown away last episode. Fun fact, B&O, Baltimore, and Ohio Railroad.

Oh, when I was a kid, I always called it the Body Odor Railroad because I was hilarious. Wait a minute. I actually have a good soundboard here. Good job, Kristen. Thank you. The B&O Railroad Bridge crossed the Potomac River right into Harper's Ferry and connected Maryland to Virginia. The whole length of the bridge had wood siding and a tin roof,

so it was like a long, dark tunnel. Okay. Bill Williams, who could also go by Bill Bill Bill. That's a stupid joke. Why did his parents do that to him? I noticed you didn't use the but-um-bum on your stupid jokes.

Why did his parents do that to him? Call him William Williams. That's what I'm wondering. He sounds like a catfish. Yeah. Bill Williams. Williams carried a lantern and walked up and down the bridge. His job was to make sure sparks from the trains didn't set the bridge on fire.

Oh. And he had to make sure that the right switches were set on the train tracks. Sure. Every 30 minutes, Bill Williams was required to put a peg in a time clock. It was a pretty mundane job. He's paid a dollar for a 12-hour shift. Adjusted for inflation? That is about $38 today.

So he made $3.16 an hour. Folks, please tip your night watchman. And don't murder him, which is what I'm guessing is about to happen. At around 10.30 p.m., Bill Williams was startled when two armed men appeared from out of the darkness and grabbed him. Williams immediately recognized Isaac Smith, aka John Brown. Isaac Smith was Brown's alias while living in Harper's Ferry. What in the world is the old man doing? Then Bill Williams noticed a wagon and a bunch of other men, and they had rifles and knives on sticks.

He didn't immediately see the knives on sticks, did he? Yes, they were holding the knives on the stick. Okay, that had to be. John Brown told Bill Williams he was now their prisoner, and at first Bill Williams thought they were joking. Uh-huh. I mean, wouldn't you, Kristen? I don't know. A bunch of threatening boys come up.

What if our neighbor of Carl grabbed you? and said, you're now my prisoner. Would you think he was joking? I would think he was joking. But sure enough, John Brown took Bill Williams as his prisoner and continued through the railroad bridge and into Harper's Ferry. Brown and his men approached the armory gate on the banks of the Potomac River. Kristen, if you can believe this,

there was one man guarding the gate at the federal armory. This armory had hundreds of thousands of guns worth millions of dollars. Okay, I do believe it because back in these times, if you wanted to meet the president, you would just go and meet the president. That is a true fact. People were just like, if it hadn't happened yet, they were like, it's not going to happen. Yeah. Did you know when Lincoln was president? You could just go right in the White House and give him a big old hug, slap his ass.

Hey, honest abe. I did not know that. Thank you for sharing that, Norm. It's on his daily brief. ass slapping the man guarding the armory was 39-year-old

Daniel Wheelan and he noticed a wagon approaching the gate and Wheelan initially thought it was the head watchman

but then when Wheelan got closer he noticed it was a bunch of dudes that he did not recognize at all they grabbed

Wheelan through the gate bars Wait, how how wide were these gate bars? You know it's like

an iron gate. Yeah. So, you know, you could stick your arm through it. Yeah, but they grabbed his whole body and, like, pulled him through. Well, they just held him through the gate. Oh, I'm sorry. He didn't pull him through.

He's not like a shape shift. He's not a spirit. I thought he was doing keto or something. No. No, they grabbed him and held on to him. And then they pointed their rifles at him. Okay. Yeah.

And they demanded that he opened the gate. But Whelan refused. And I got to be honest, as a non-threatening boy, I would literally do whatever these guys wanted me to do. Norm, you would be bent over and they'd be like, we didn't ask you to bend over. I'd say, oh, do you want me to join this insurrection? Okay, yeah, give me a weapon. Let's go. I got to say, that is taking your job very seriously.

Yeah. Well, so Brown's men took out a crowbar and pried the gate open. And they took Daniel Whelan hostage. Whelan did not dare to fight back because he only had a sword. Oh. Gee, it sure would have been nice if he had a gun. gun, I wonder where he could have gotten one in a federal armory. That is kind of weird.

They've got one guy guarding this place, a place full of guns. One guy guarding the gate. There was actually another guard at the far end of the armory. Okay. Because this armory stretched for like half a mile. Oh, great. That's super useful. He finally shows up.

He's totally out of breath. Okay, I'm here. What's going on? Everybody hang on. Let me catch my breath. Then I'm going to kick all your asses. A her commotion. John Brown.

men quickly secured the armory. And then Brown sent out a few groups of men to secure a nearby rifle factory, an arsenal that was caddy corner to the armory, and then another bridge south of town that crossed the Shenandoah River. Anyone who walked past the armory was immediately taken in as a hostage. There weren't too many people out Sunday night. They grabbed maybe two or three guys stumbling home. Harper's Ferry is a small town, and it was some of the same.

Sunday, the Lerds Day. Daniel Whelan asked John Brown what he planned to do. And John Brown replied, I want to free all the Negroes in this state. If the citizens interfere with me, I must only burn the town and have blood. Yeah. By midnight, John Brown and his men had seized the federal armory. They've got both bridges going in and out of Harper's Ferry. They've got the weapons arsenal.

They've got a rifle factory. They had taken a handful of hostages. They cut down all the telegraph wires, severing communication to the outside world. And they did all this without firing a single shot. Okay, I've got to say, I talked all kinds of shit about John Brown's plan last week. But you lay it out like that. They did all this in the span of a couple hours, it sounds like that's... In about an hour and a half.

That's pretty amazing. Mm-hmm. So how are you feeling so far, Kristen? Well, I mean, I feel great about this. The part that I still think is not going to happen is this idea that all of a sudden word gets out and a bunch of people come running to help him. I just don't think that's going to happen. Yeah, you don't think he's going to get support, the support he's expecting. No.

Right. Things seem to be going pretty well for John Brown at this point. It's now October 17th. it's around 1220 a.m. And another night watchman for the B&O Railroad Bridge, his name is Patrick Higgins, he arrived late to work. And when he got to the bridge, he noticed all of the lamps had been extinguished. And then he went to go clock in, and he noticed Bill Williams had stopped putting pegs in the time clock. And he had stopped around 10.30.

And furthermore, where the fuck was Bill Williams? Yeah. So Patrick Higgins walked alone down the long, dark railroad tunnel, and I feel like he was probably feeling a little spooked. Sure. And as he approached the Virginia side of the bridge, he saw the silhouettes of two men holding rifles and carrying what looked like a knife on a stick. One of the shadowy figures called out, which way? And for John Brown's army, this was code for what's the password. Oh, okay.

Well, Patrick Higgins was understandably confused by someone asking him which way, and he replied, I'm at my station. Wouldn't it be hilarious if the password was, huh? And they just let him. Sorry. So Patrick Higgins answered, I'm at my station. The two shadowy men quickly moved to grab Patrick Higgins and take him prisoner. But Higgins punched one of them.

Shit, Patrick. And then he ran into Harper's Ferry and then bullets whizzed by his head. Higgins dove through a front glass window at the wager house. It's a three-story hotel near the entrance of the bridge. He dove through the window? Dove through the front window of this hotel. Who the fuck is this guy? Action hero.

I guess so. This obviously startled the hotel clerk sitting at the front desk. That's actual audio from that moment. This hotel had just been remodeled. So the hotel owner was like, damn it, Patrick. Patrick Higgins told the hotel clerk to lock the doors and that there are robbers on the bridge. By the way, great idea to lock the doors. He just broke the giant window in front of the business.

The hotel clerk had actually seen John Brown's wagon pass by earlier, but he assumed it was just some travelers going through. Yeah. But now that Patrick Higgins had jumped through his hotel window, the clerk was one of the 100% convinced something more nefarious was going on. And he started looking for a pistol. Uh-huh. About an hour later, it was 1.25 a.m., a train heading for Baltimore rolls into Harper's Ferry from the south. And it stopped at the train platform by the Wager House Hotel.

Patrick Higgins and the hotel clerk waved it down. Yeah. And they warned the train's conductor, Andrew Phelps, there were armed men on the B&O Railroad Bridge. Well, Andrew Phelps was a curious cat, and so he decided to investigate. He and four other men from his crew took lanterns, and they walked into the B&O Railroad Bridge.

Were they armed? No. Oh, my God. They just had a lantern. They were just investigating. They made it about 50 yards inside when a voice yelled out, Stand and deliver.

Kristen, this is an old-timey phrase for stop and hand over your shit. Oh, okay. Andrew Phelps could just barely make out men with rifles. Frightened, Phelps and his men put out their lantern, turned around, and high-tailed it back to their train. And then a shot rang out. One of Phelps men screamed, I am shot! The wounded man was quickly carried back to the train depot.

It was Haywood Shepard, a free... Black Man, who was the baggage master for the Railroad Depot at Harper's Ferry. Great. He lived in nearby Winchester, Virginia. He owned a small house. He had a wife and five kids. He had been shot in the back. The bullet came out of his chest right below his left nipple.

Haywood Shepherd would survive through the night but died in agony from his wound the next day. The first casualty of John Brown's Holy War to end slavery was a black man. Black man. Yep. I do want to take a moment to talk about Haywood Shepard. Okay. It's time to get real slutty about history, Kristen. And by a slutty...

I'm already there. By slutty, I mean, I kind of want to just dive a little further into Haywood Shepard because this is an interesting conundrum that just happened. Yeah. Obviously, this is a terrible ironic tragedy that a black man was the first casualty at Harper's Ferry. Yeah. Slavery apologist. loved this.

Of course they did. Pointed it out constantly after the events. And what's this? Plaque alert. Oh, we love a plaque. We sure do. So a John Brown Memorial was put up in Harper's Ferry at the turn of the century. Let me fucking guess.

Hang on. Okay. Sorry. I'm kind of a slut for history as well. You're busting. Not too early. Hang on. A local college put up a memorial to John Brown in his army in Harper's Ferry. Well, the United Daughters of the Confederacy decided they wanted to put up a memorial of their own. So in 1931, they decided to honor Haywood Shepherd by erecting a monument to him basically across the street from the John Brown Memorial. Yep. The members of the United Daughters of the Confederacy called it the Faithful Slave Memorial.

Oh, gross. It is a terrible monument. It's a six-foot slab of granite that basically describes Hayward Shepherd, so they got his name wrong. Oh, of course. They described Shepherd as, this is a direct quote, exemplifying the character and faithfulness of thousands of Negroes who, under many temptations, throughout subsequent years of war, so conducted themselves that no stain was left upon a record, which is the peculiar heritage of the American people, in an everlasting tribute to the best in both races.

What flowery horse shit is that? This shitty monument further pushed the lost cause narrative that slavery was actually good. the best black people didn't fight for freedom because slavery really wasn't that bad. In fact, everyone liked it. That's right. I actually wrote a paper in graduate school about Confederate monuments because this was kind of a hot topic at that time. Yeah, yeah. And my paper examined Confederate monuments and the calls to remove the monuments.

And I really compared it with how other countries handled. their own violent past. In my humble opinion, Kristen, let's hear it. Monuments are not history. They are memories. And they should serve a community's present and future needs. This Haywood Shepherd monument, sorry, Hayward Shepherd.

They got his name wrong. Right, right. It does not do any of those things. I'm honestly shocked. It is still up in Harper's Ferry, West Virginia. Yeah, that's bullshit. it's it's just a shitty monument it sucks yeah it's it's disgusting yeah anyway i just wanted to mention that and like what did that man have to go through to get his freedom and then the so-called memorial

to him is a faithful slave is that what it's called they the united daughters of the confederacy called it the faithful slave memorial that's fascinating yeah anyway you know future topic confederate monuments, it'd be amazing. Yeah. We've got a few here in Kansas City, I think. Oh, they're everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere.

I don't play football with a touchdown everywhere. Everywhere, everywhere. Anyway, back to the story. It's unclear who fired the shot that killed Haywood Shepard. But some evidence suggests it was Stuart Taylor. He was a 23-year-old wagon maker from Canada. and he had joined John Brown's army when they were back in Iowa.

Yeah. Apparently some of Brown's men found Taylor on the railroad bridge pale and trembling, claiming he may have shot someone. Kristen, these are young guys. Yeah. And many of them don't have experience fighting and they're nervous.

Yeah. So Stuart Taylor was scared, fired his gun, and probably killed Haywood Shepard. Yeah, well, I mean, it's it's kind of that thing we were talking about earlier where when it's all talk, it's one thing. Mm-hmm. And then the violence starts and it's another. Yeah.

Brown's men on the bridge exchanged fire with the hotel clerk. The hotel clerk had finally found a pistol. Not a moment too soon. But no one was hit. All this commotion was freaking out the passengers on the train. by the way, there are people on the train. Oh, I'd forgotten about them, yeah. Women and children are screaming.

They're pouring out of the train into the Wager House Hotel for safety. They barricaded the doors. They turned out all the lights. And John Brown sent over messages to the hotel apologizing for shooting the baggage master, Haywood Shepard. And he reassured them he did not intend to harm anyone. Yeah. But it was still unclear to everyone what the hell was going. on? Were these guys robbers? Were they disgruntled armory workers?

Abolitionists was not on the top of their list, especially after they just killed Haywood Shepard. Right. So what the hell are these guys up to? What's their deal? Meanwhile, in the countryside of Virginia. So while all this was going on at the armory, Brown had sent some of his men out into the countryside of Jefferson County to grab hostages. Oh, this is when they grab the influential people, right? They're grabbing hostages. Kristen, if you recall, handsome spy man slash lava and also now husband, John Cook, he had been living in Harper's Ferry for the past year.

And when he wasn't busy developing his organ with the ladies, he was identifying potential targets to take hostage. His number one target was a man named Lewis Washington. Louis Washington was the 64-year-old great-grand-nephew of George Washington. I wondered if, I mean, yeah, okay. Our nation's first president. Lewis Washington was now a widower. His children were all adults, so he lived alone. And he went by Colonel Lewis Washington, although I could find no evidence he was an actual colonel.

Wow, cool. Okay. Apparently governors can make people honorary colonels, like the KFC guy, Colonel Sanders. Stolen valor, KFC. Lewis Washington was also one of the wealthiest men in the county. He had a 670-acre plantation called, I think it's pronounced Bel-A-R, like the fresh prince of Bel-E-E-L-A-R. It's B-E-A-L-I-R. It could be Bealear.

But I'm going to call it Bel Air. All right. In Harper's Fairy, Morning Ray. No, we're not going to do that. I like how you started it and you were like, no. We shan't continue. We shall not. Okay, so 670 acres, he lives there alone, but he's not really living there alone, right?

He's not alone, Kristen. Yeah. He, of course, was also an enslaver and had many enslaved people. Yeah. At around 1.30 a.m., Lewis Washington heard his name being called from outside his bedroom. Oh, Conno.

Kenna, Washington. And at first he thought it may have been a friend who was let into the house by his, quote, servants. Oh. That's what he said, aka his enslaved people. Yeah. Lewis Washington opened his bedroom door and was surprised to see his friend from Harper's Ferry, John Cook. The two men had kind of bonded over the past year. They loved talking about historical artifacts and they liked to shoot antique

pistols. While standing next to John Cook was big, buff, sexy boy Aaron Stevens, and he was holding a revolver and a torch. Oh. Aaron Stevens told Washington, you are our prisoner and asked him to get dressed. They were going to take him to Harper's Ferry. Lewis Washington really didn't seem that worried at first. He took his sweet-ass time getting dressed, and the whole time he got dressed, he complained

about Aaron Stevens' torch. He was worried the embers would fall and ruin his floor. This guy's got an ego. Okay. Lewis Washington looked at his captors and remarked, You are a very bold-looking set of fellows. Possibly you will have the courtesy to tell me what this means. Aaron Stevens replied,

We have come here for the purpose of liberating all the slaves of the South. Stevens then mentioned that their leader was the famous Oswatomie Brown of Kansas. And Louis Washington was like, I've never heard of him. Oh, bullshit. It pissed Aaron Stevens off. Yeah. And he replied, well, you have paid very little attention to Kansas matters. That's it.

Light his rugs on fire. That's it. I'm going to light your ass on fire. Meanwhile, while Stevens and Washington are bickering, John Cook is rummaging through all of Lewis Washington's stuff because he knows. knew he had cool shit. Wait, he's just taking stuff? He's taking shit, yeah. You had a bad vibe about John Cook.

I did. He is. He's a little jerk. Yeah. Which we'll find out. Because shouldn't he be going to all the enslaved people right now and being like, hey, here's what's happening? No, he'd find some goodies first.

No. He eventually found Lewis Washington's gun closet, and he helped himself to a pistol and a sword that once belonged to George Washington. I mean, you would want that, yeah. Stevens and Cook then ordered Washington into a carriage waiting for him outside. And as Lewis Washington got into the carriage, he noticed they were towing a farm wagon behind them, and it was loaded with some of his enslaved men. And John Cook sat next to Washington in the carriage and apologized for the inconvenience. Isn't that nice?

No. Fucking little snake. Well, the carriage took off and its next stop was another plantation. It was another enslaver. His name was John Allstott. They arrived. Brown's men took a log from the rail fence and they battered down his door. Hell yeah.

No time to knock now. Not knocking now. From outside the house, Lewis Washington could hear Allstott's wife and daughter screaming, Murder! No one was actually murdered. You know what? I've got to say, during this time period, I've noticed from some old-timey stories, when violence was happening, people would shout the word murder.

Murder. Yeah. Isn't that kind of strange? Yeah, because no actual murder was happening. Well, that's not really the part that I think is weird. Like, I don't know. I feel like today when violence happens, no one shouts murder. Yeah.

You know. I say, oh, shit. John Brown's men took John Allstott and his 18-year-old son, as well as seven enslaved men, loaded them into the caravan, and they headed back to the armory at Harper's Ferry. Louis Washington was still not convinced this was serious. He was chilling in the carriage, talking to John Cook. Has he just lived such a fucking cushy life that it doesn't even occur to him that this could go badly? Does not dawn on him that this could go badly. He just assumed these guys were robbers and that once they reached Harper's Ferry, they were just going to let them go.

Why would they take you if they're robbers? I don't know. That's just what he believed. Okay. So then they reached the armory and they were taken inside. And the hostages were greeted by the man, the myth, the legend, John Brown. Brown pointed them to a stove in the guardhouse that had a fire going so they could stay warm. And then John Brown went up to Lewis Washington and took his sword, his family sword, because John Brown wanted to use it as a symbolic gesture. Hell yeah.

And then he talked to Lewis Washington for a little bit. He said, I wanted you as a hostage in particular for the moral effect it would give our cause, having one of your name as a prisoner. Oh, well, now that douchebag feels really special. Yeah. It's kind of like a celebrity, but it's not, you know, he's just the great. grand nephew of Washington. He's not actual. No, it's symbolic.

I guess. It'd be kind of like if I took like Frank Stallone hostage instead of Sylvester Stallone. It's nothing like that. Stallone is not comparable to Washington. Frank Stallone is Sylvester Stallone's not as cool brother. Anyway. Thanks a lot. He was a big fan of the podcast until then.

He was a fresh hope. Frank Stallone did. He's a good. singer. I'll give them that. Did a few songs for the Rocky soundtrack. Okay. Take you back. Do do do do do. Do you back. Yeah. Yeah. Take you back. I like that you're pulling back on the soundboard, but not on songs that were written by Sylvester Stallone's brother. I've been told by some people and they all say to take you back. What is it that you Love about Sylvester Stallone.

It's a... I know what it is. He's a threatening boy. He's a threatening boy. Yeah. Threatening boy. All right. Mystery solved.

And a talented man. John Brown also told Lewis Washington that he planned to, quote, put a stop to slavery. And then Lewis Washington saw something that kind of changed his mind about the whole situation. Those Kansas butternives? Well, yeah. So his enslaved men came into the room and they were. now armed with the Kansas butter knives. Oh, now it's not so funny.

Not so funny. John Brown ordered the enslaved men to guard the hostages. What did Lewis think of that? He realized that John Brown was serious now. Was he shit in his pantaloons all of a sudden? Uh-huh. By the way, last episode, you asked me if these Kansas butter knives were still around. Yeah.

I have good news. Many of them survived. There were 950 of them, remember. Yeah, they're not the kind of thing you just throw away. So there's a lot in private collections. There are some in museums across the country. And I know for a fact the Smithsonian does have one. That is so cool.

And they are all marked with serial numbers. So there's 950 unique numbers on them. It's very cool. Okay, we've got to see one. Yeah. I mean, when I looked at the picture, I was like, wow, that really is a knife on a stick. I described it beautifully. I did.

It's now the morning of October 17th Dawn has broken on Harper's Ferry Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do What a missed opportunity. Yeah Believe it or not Kristen most residents still had no idea what was going on in Harper's Ferry. No, I believe that. They've been sleeping.

They're waking up. It's Monday morning. Mondays, am I right? The shots in the middle of. of the night didn't raise too much alarm because most people thought it was just factory noises from the armory. Sure. Or, you know, it's the 1850s.

It's a small town in the mountains. Right. You're going to hear gunshots every now and then. But then the armory bell, which always rang at 6.30 a.m., did not ring that morning. Mm-hmm. Because John Brown and his men had taken the bell ringer hostage. He came in to ring the bell and they grabbed them. Oh, come on.

That's my one passion. It's my only job. Well, as employees showed up for work at the armory, John Brown just took him prisoner. Sure. As they walked into the armory, they just grabbed them and threw them into the building. By 7 a.m., John Brown and his men had about 40 hostages.

He assured all of them they would not be harmed. He was there to free enslaved people, not hurt innocent people. And then one hostage spoke up and was like, oh, well, can I go home and tell my wife and kids that I'm being held hostage? That's not how being held hostage. John Brown let him go home. John? He was escorted by one of Brown's men. Okay.

So the guy went home, told his family what was going on, ate breakfast, and then went back to the armory. Well, weren't all the people like, oh, I also. want to go tell my family now? I guess not. Okay. This is one guy. He may have been like a more prominent citizen of Harper's Ferry and so. There might have been some kind of preexisting relationship.

Maybe. Okay. Speaking of breakfast. Brown's threatening boys and the hostages were all feeling a little peckish. Okay. I'm hungry. So John Brown sent a note over to the Wager House Hotel asking if they could make breakfast for everybody. Well, didn't the Wager House Hotel?

have all the people from the train in there? Yep. There are people from the train. I mean, how many uncrustables do they have on hand? We're out of smuckers uncrustables. Shit. The hotel clerk was like, you've got to be fucking kidding. Yeah.

And the guy was like, how are you going to pay for this? Exactly. And John Brown promised he would pay for it. Well, we all know John Brown is just fantastic with money, Kristen. Well, the hotel did provide coffee, bread, and butter for everybody. During this time, John Brown also met with Andrew Phelps, the train conductor. His train that was heading for Baltimore was still parked at Harper's Ferry. John Brown's men were still guarding the B&O Railroad Bridge and would not allow the train to pass.

But then John Brown did something interesting. What do you think he did? Hold on. Throw that scenario at me again. The train that was heading to Baltimore that arrived in Harper's Ferry at around 1.30 in the morning. You know, it stopped. Yeah. And it's been parked there since then. And John Brown's men have the railroad bridge. And so they're not going to let this train leave Harper's Ferry. But then John Brown wants to go talk to the conductor. What do you think he does? He says, everyone can get back on the train and just go? Yep. Oh, no. He told Andrew Phelps that he

could take his train and leave. And Andrew Phelps did not believe Brown at first. Well, no, you wouldn't. He wanted a guarantee it would be safe to cross the bridge. And so John Brown personally walked next to the train as it crossed the bridge. And then as the train reached the Maryland side of the bridge, John Brown told Andrew Phelps about his plan to free enslaved people. And then he also lied to Andrew Phelps and said, I have 1,500 reinforcements on the way.

Okay, so Andrew is going to go tell this, and then like an army of people who support slavery are going to come and just go apeshit, right? Good thinking, Kristen. Thank you. Brown knew that once the train reached the next station, Andrew Phelps would immediately telegraph out messages for help. Right. And passengers would get off the train and they'd start talking and word would just spread like wildfire. It was the shock that Brown wanted that would make the nation panic. And just as John Brown predicted, the train reached Monocacy, Maryland at around 7.05 a.m.,

and Andrew Phelps immediately telegraphed his superiors in Baltimore, stating his train was, quote, stop this morning at Harper's Ferry by armed abolitionists and that they better notify the Secretary of War. Well, Andrew Phelps' bosses did not believe him. I don't know how you would make something like that up. Yeah. What they think was happening? They wrote back, Your dispatch is evidently exaggerated and written under excitement.

Dilly boy. Yeah. Oh, you stop it. Well, Andrew Phelps wrote back immediately and said, My dispatch was not exaggerated. It's like, no, bitch. Neither was it written under excitement, as you suppose. I have not made it half as bad as it is.

Well, eventually, Andrew Phelps' bosses were like, okay, all right, we'll forward the message to who we need to forward it to. And so they sent it to the governor, Virginia, Henry Wise, the U.S. Secretary of War, John Floyd, and Mr. Drunk Cockatoo, President James Bue. Buchanan. So now the U.S. government is aware of what's going on at Harper's Ferry. Do they believe it?

We'll see. Okay. It was called an insurrection, by the way. Interesting. More on this later. Yeah. Well, the news spread quickly once that train stopped. There were dispatches in New York that said,

Insurrection at Harper's Ferry. Another one read, extensive negro conspiracy in Virginia and Maryland and another one read a general stampede of slaves Okay A lot of rumor swirling

Yeah And all of this probably just puts black people in danger Oh yeah John Brown once said that when he attacked Harper's Ferry The bees would begin to swarm Well John Brown's bees were not coming Killer Hornets were coming Kristen, I want to ask you this question, semi-pop quiz.

Okay. Not really a pop quiz. It's just a, I just want to know your thoughts. And historians argue about this, too. Should John Brown have let that train, Leaf Harper's Ferry? It depends on what his goal is. That's a great response. Thank you.

Because it was just, as we'll find out, what he did this day was perplexed a lot of people. Yeah. It perplexes me. Me too. Well, many residents are still unaware of what's going on in Harper's Ferry, but one resident did decide to take action. His name was Thomas Borley. He ran a bar and grocery store in Harper's Ferry, and he was opening up his shop that morning, and then a neighbor ran up to him and said, dude, I was just walking by the armory, and some guys with guns tried to kidnap me. Thomas Borley was a large man

and he was described as combative. Okay. So Thomas Borley went into his shop, grabbed a shotgun, walked down the street to the armory, and he saw some of Brown's men guarding the armory gate. And he freaking pumped his shotgun, fired it. Are you serious? That's not the sound of shotgun makes, but...

What sound did you do? Oh, you got one shot, don't you? Okay. Kristen, I know you're not a gun. and lose used. Right. Shotguns at long range, you're not going to hit anything.

Okay. Shotguns fire like scatter shot. Yeah. You know, goes everywhere. So at long range, not very effective. Well,

one of John Brown's men turned around, saw Thomas Borley, fired his rifle. He shot Thomas Borley in the dick. Oh, no. Oh, no. The bullet tore through his

groin. Oh. Thomas Borley hobbled into a nearby jewelry shop and bled to death on the floor. You know, a lesser woman would make a joke about his family jewels in the jewelry shop. You're right. A lesser woman would make that joke. But as you know, I'm very classy. You are.

Thomas Borley left behind a wife and four children. and a dick Well after the dick shooting Word was now spreading through Harper's Ferry All the dudes were terrified They're shooting dicks off They're shooting dicks off in Harper's Ferry

The town was under attack And a large They're going to shoot all of our dicks off A large group of townsfolk gathered on a hill That overlooked Harper's Ferry They're not taking our dicks That's right The situation seemed dire.

Brown's men were heavily armed, and they were bunkered down in that armory. And the townsfolk, all they had were, like, little hunting rifles, like to shoot squirrel. Right. And they had these shotguns that were only effective if you're, like, right next to somebody, you know. So they were no match. And so they sent off a rider to nearby Charlestown, Virginia. There was about eight miles away, and they were going to go get some more help. Charlestown is the county seat of Jefferson County, and so that means they had a militia.

Oh. So while the townsfolk are rallying the militia, John Brown sent a few more men on another mission to collect more hostages, collect more enslaved people, and he wanted them to bring up weapons from the Kennedy Farm and bring them up closer to the action. Okay. Because he was like, we've seized the armory. Let's bring up more weapons. even though he had a shitload of weapons at the armory. But still, you're taking weapons away from other people.

Yep. So handsome spy slash lover slash husband, John Cook, and a few others, they went off to Maryland, right across that railroad bridge. And on the way to the Kennedy farm, they ran into an enslaver named Terrence Byrne. And he was riding his horse down the road, just a jolly little stroll down the road. Byrne knew John Cook Pretty much everyone Of course Everyone in Harper's Ferry knew John Cook

At this point He'd fucked everybody And he was surprised to see Cook With a wagon full of enslaved men Holding what looked like Knives on a stick That would be surprising Yeah

John Cook pointed a rifle at Byrne and said I'm very sorry to inform you That you're my prisoner And just like the other people Byrne thought Cook was joking But Cook assured him he was serious and told him, quote, we want your Negroes.

But Byrne couldn't comply. His enslaved men were not home. They had left Saturday night and had not returned yet. It's unclear why they weren't home. But it was common for enslaved people to visit family members on other plantations over the weekend. And, you know, Byrne's a nice guy, Kristen. Oh, yeah. It's just a nice guy.

You know, we're always hearing about these really nice enslavers. Burn, burn, burn the enslaver. Nice as he could be. Burn, burn, burn the enslaver. Ooh, that kind of works both the ways. Oh, yeah, hell yeah. Burn did say he had enslaved women and children at his house, but John Cook did not want to take women and children.

He wanted men to join the army and fight. He gives the men a day off, but not. Well, as you're going to find out, it wasn't really a day off for the enslaved people. It was terrifying and horrible. Okay. But we'll get to that. All right. I guess that was pretty stupid a day off. Yeah, have a day off. Yeah, go ahead. Join our insurrection. It's going to go great. So they took burn hostage, and they loaded up weapons and supplies at the Kennedy Farm, and then John Cook took the wagon to its next destination. A Little Log Schoolhouse. Okay. So John Brown had chosen this schoolhouse as like a rallying point for his men if they had to retreat from Harper's Ferry and go back into Maryland. The schoolhouse was kind of like on the side of this mountain and it was a good defensive position.

And so John Cook was going to put all the weapons in this little schoolhouse. Well, I guess he didn't realize. He opened the door and there's 25 kids and a teacher having class. Oh my God. How did they not anticipate that? I don't know. It's Monday. It's cool.

John Cook basically was like, oh, don't mind me. I'm just going to store some of these boxes in the corner here. Just ignore me. Well, obviously, the students are terrified. Yeah. They were, quote, wide-eyed and very much alarmed. Yeah. So John Cook unloaded all the weapons, and then he made an interesting decision.

which I think I have thoughts about it. Okay. Instead of going back to Harper's Ferry, John Cook and an enslaved man decided to stay and guard the schoolhouse. And then the rest of the men took Terrence Byrne and the wagon and went back to the federal armory in Harper's Ferry. I think John Cook was scared and said, oh, I'm going to hang out here, guys.

You guys go on back to Harper's Ferry. I think it would be really hard to embed yourself. in a town. You're making all these friends, you're having fun being the spy, and then you have to kidnap them and scare the shit out of them and potentially murder them. When he had a wife and kid now, too. Right. Yeah, I bet you he was kind of done. I think so too. When he made that choice to stay and guard the schoolhouse. Yeah. Along the way back to Harper's Ferry, Terence Byrne learned that the leader of this group was the famous John Brown of Kansas.

Burns said he became, quote, fearful of a bloody civil war. Foreshadowing. Shit's about to hit the fan, Kristen. Back in Harper's Ferry at around 11 a.m., a few townspeople had snuck into the back of the armory. Oh.

The armory stretched down the Potomac River for about half a mile, and John Brown and his men really just guarded the front gate area. and so some men snuck in the back and they found some guns and then meanwhile local women and children were gathering up any metal they could find spoons, tools, etc.

And they started melting them all down to make bullets. Wow. So now that the townspeople were armed, Harper's Ferry residents started shooting at Brown's men from all different directions from second-story windows

of nearby buildings, from hills, overlooking the town from the streets. This is bad news for John Brown. His men had to take cover. They were spread out. You know, he had men on the railroad bridge. He had men at the armory.

He had men at the arsenal that was caddy corner to the armory. And then he had men at the rifle factory down the street. Remember, he only came into Harper's Ferry with 18 men. I thought it was 21. Three stayed behind to guard the farm. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he's spread kind of thin.

John Kagey, renowned vegetarian and second in command of John Brown's army, he was stationed with some men at the rifle factory. And he started seeing militiamen gathering on a ridge across from the rifle factory. So imagine a high ridge. Yep. And down below is a rifle factory. And shots start pouring in. John Kage sends a note to John Brown at the armory. now is the time to retreat back into Maryland.

Yeah. Because the swarms of people who you were so sure we're going to come are not coming. They're not coming. Instead, it's people who are trying to kill us. Well, Frederick Douglass warned John Brown about this. Remember, he said, if you threaten the slavery institution, they're going to be on you. You called it a steel trap, remember? Yes.

Once you're in, you're not getting out. He was spot on. Yep. So John Kagey sent a note to John Brown. Let's get the fuck out of here. John Kage never received a reply. Why? Hold, please.

Okay. Things were about to get worse. The writers from Harper's Ferry had finally reached Charlestown, and they rang the church bells, which signified an emergency. Wee woo, wee, woo. Those are weird church bells. No. Rumor swirled that there were hundreds of insurgents at Harper's Ferry that included, quote, armed bands of maddened blacks. Okay.

Yeah, wild rumors going on. You know, it's scary enough to just say there's some wild white dudes shooting people's ticks off. Yeah, with knives on sticks. The truth is enough, folks. Get the hell out of there, folks. By 1130 a.m., 150 volunteers and militiamen had arrived at Harper's Ferry

ready to fight. Oh shit. They split up and they surrounded Brown and his men from all sides. One group of about 20 militia men stormed the B&O Railroad Bridge and John Brown had maybe

two to three guys guarding this bridge. They took Brown's men by surprise and badly outnumbered they retreated to the armory and exchanged fire. And this crossfire is chaotic. One of Brown's men, Dangerfield Newby, he was stationed at the Shenandoah River Bridge south of town.

And if you recall from my last episode, Kristen, Dangerfield Newby is the oldest man in Brown's army, besides John Brown. He's 48 years old, formerly enslaved man. And he was fighting to free his wife and children Yeah. Who were still enslaved in Virginia. When Dangerfield Newby heard the gunfire, he sprinted back to the armory to try to help John Brown.

And as he ran down the street, a man from a second-story window noticed Newby, peaked out, and he fired a musket loaded with a six-inch railroad spike down on him. The railroad spike cut through Newby's neck and throat and instantly killed him. Yeah Dangerfield Newby was the first man to die in John Brown's army That's awful His body laid in the street

Angry and drunk townspeople Beat him with sticks Someone cut off his ears As a souvenir Oh my God His body would Lay in the gutter for about a day and a half And when someone finally came to collect

Dangerfield Newby For burial they found wild hogs feeding on him. Oh. In Dangerfield Newby's pocket were letters from his enslaved wife, Harriet. And they read, I want you to buy me as soon as possible. If you do not get me, somebody else will.

Do all you can for me, which I have no doubt you will. Dangerfield Newby died only 50 miles from his wife and kids. That's awful. Sadly, months later, Dangerfield's wife Harriet and their seven children were sold to a Louisiana enslaver. But during the Civil War, Union soldiers liberated Harriet in her family. She remarried and moved back to Virginia, and her family ran a successful farm, and she passed away in 1884. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. Some good news. Plack alert. Okay. Let me stop crying. I'm sorry. Okay. In 2021, the state of Virginia put up a roadside marker dedicated to Dangerfield and Harriet Newby. On Route 211 in Culpepper County, Virginia.

This was close to where Dangerfield Newby was born. Good. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, it's tough. I'm okay. Just for what he was fighting for and like. Yeah.

And the way he died is awful. Yeah. there's not a more noble cause than what he was fighting for. Yeah. And it's horrible that he was even in that position, horrible that anyone was in that position. And then he dies in that horrible way with no dignity. Yeah. I think the letters from his wife in his pocket were.

Yeah. That's what got me when I was researching. Yeah. The local militia had now taken the B&O railroad bridge. losing that bridge was a significant turning point. John Brown and his men were now cut off from Maryland, their best escape route. They no longer controlled the Shenandoah River Bridge, so they couldn't escape into the Virginia countryside either. Steel trap.

It was a steel trap. The federal armory was also badly exposed to gunfire from the town itself, because Harper's Ferry was basically built into the side of a hill. Still, the armory was in the lowest part of Harper's Ferry because it was right on the banks of the river. Oh, so, yeah, that would be really easy to shoot down at the people in there. Townsfolk had free shots on John Brown and his men from the buildings above. For better protection, John Brown moved most of his men and the hostages to a fire engine house that was on the armory grounds. It was about 35 feet by 24 feet. It had very high windows.

and so that protected them from the shots from the town. And it also had thick brick walls and three large wooden doors. And so they barricaded these doors with the fire engines. And then the men would peek out from the door so they could shoot if they had to. Some men even chiseled away at a brick so they could peek out of a hole in the wall and shoot. Gosh, okay. It was a bad situation. Yeah.

As bullets smashed into the side of the engine house, John Brown decided it was probably best to try and negotiate a ceasefire. I agree. He sent out one of his men, William Thompson, with a hostage waving a white flag. The people of Harper's Ferry were in no mood to negotiate. They immediately grabbed William Thompson and took him to the Wagerhouse Hotel,

and then the hostage just ran off. Okay. I'm guessing it wasn't Louis Washington. Nope. Well, buff boy Aaron Stevens, sexy as hell, tall, dark, and handsome. He saw all this go down. He was fucking furious. He was a former army soldier, Kristen.

He could not believe these folks at Harper's Ferry were not respecting the rules of warfare. Well, came out waving a white flag, wanted to negotiate, and they just took the guy. is chivalry is it chivalry chivalry chivalry is chivalry dead christin well i mean you're not really engaging in the rules of war either my dude i mean i know you're sexy as hell but someone has to tell you that's true i mean i am on your side but like come on the hostages noticed aaron stevens getting real upset and he came forward and said i can possibly accommodate matters it was the superintendent of the armory. So he commanded a little respect. Okay. And he said, hey, I'll go out and I'll try to negotiate a piece. And despite what had just happened, John Brown sent out his son, Watson Brown,

and buff boy Aaron Stevens, with the hostage to try and negotiate again. Guess what happened? Same exact thing, right? Worse. Oh. A group of riflemen from the second story of a nearby saloon just shot at them. Buff boy Aaron Stevens was hit multiple times. Oh. Watson Brown was shot in the stomach, and he scurried back to the armory, vomiting blood.

Oh. The hostage ran for cover in the hotel nearby. It's kind of amazing. They didn't shoot the hostage on accident. Yeah, exactly. Townsfolk dragged Aaron Stevens into the hotel, and he was just bleeding all over the place. Yeah.

He'd been shot many times. One witness said, I've seen big beefs killed and they did not lose more blood. Despite Aaron Stevens fighting for his life, people could not help but admire his amazing body. Shut up. I am not pushing you. Are you serious? Witnesses described him as a large, exceedingly athletic man, a perfect Samson in appearance. His brawny shoulders and large limbs.

No. All the muscles finally developed and hard. What? Calm down over there, Kristen. You tell these town people to come down. Sexy times. Okay. I am serious.

I'm serious. How fucking hot do you have to be that you come into a town, you terrorize the people, and you're shot up full of bullets bleeding all over the hotel or wherever you're at? He's at the hotel. And everyone's just like, look at that. That bod. Hot bod. Hot bod.

I want your bod. Yep. This dude must have been sexy as long. He was. He absolutely was. Oh my gosh. Negotiating was not going to work. Clearly.

So John Brown tried to send for help. At about 1 p.m., he sent out a 20-year-old named William Lehman to try to and cross the Potomac River into Maryland. Oh, come on. And get help from the men back at the Kennedy Farm. Can William fly? William Lehman was the youngest guy in Brown's Army. And he had been fighting with John Brown since he was 17 in Kansas.

This is a kid. Yeah. William Lehman ran through the Armory yard. He hopped over the wall and he ran to the Potomac River. It was shallow this time of year. so he hoped he could cross it on foot. But he was spotted by riflemen on the B&O railroad bridge. Two militia men went down into the river and chased him.

William Lehman slipped and lost his rifle in the water. And he scrambled onto a large rock, and he raised his hands in the air and yelled, don't shoot. One of the men pursuing him raised up his gun and shot him in the face. He killed him. Riflemen on the bridge continue,

shooting William Lehman's body for target practice for the rest of the day. Oh my God. Until it finally washed away into the river. Oh, my God. This is horrible. It's going to get worse. I think I know how. What's your prediction?

That all the enslaved men who didn't ask to be part of this, but were brought into this, are going to be horribly murdered. I'll continue my story. All right. You asked. Yeah, I know. It's now 2.30 p.m. John Kagee, who was second in command, respected vegetarian. You know, he's holding the rifle factory.

He's separated from John Brown at the armory. Yeah. He has four other men with him. So I'm going to go over those men. There's Louis Leary. He's a black harness maker from Ohio. I talked about him a little bit in the last episode. Louis Leary's nephew, John Copeland Jr., formerly enslaved man.

Was also a fugitive. Remember, he rescued that enslaved man in Ohio? Yes. Yes. Okay. I talked about it briefly last episode. Gotcha. Gotcha. Also with them was a 20-year-old enslaved man known only as Ben. And then there was another enslaved man named Jim.

Jim was Lewis Washington's coachman. He had joined John Brown's army when Washington was taken in as a hostage. Wow. And he said, yeah, I'll fight with you. Remember earlier John Kagee had sent a note to John Brown about getting the fuck out of Harper's Ferry. Yeah. And he never heard back. He was exchanging shots with these militia on the ridge.

And John Kegie now peeked out and noticed they were almost completely surrounded now by the militia. And they were getting ready to storm the rifle factory. Yeah. There was only one way out. And that was out the back. And out the back of the rifle factory was the Shannon. River. All of the men ran out the back and right into the Shenandoah River. They were immediately spotted by the militia men. One witness said they were shot down like dogs. John Kagee made it two

thirds of the way across the Shenandoah River, but he was shot, pursued, and then beaten to death with a club in the river. Next was Louis Leary. Lewis Leary was the harness maker from Ohio. He was shot in the back and then dragged back to the shore. He was barely alive. Lewis Leary asked his killers if they could let his wife Mary know what happened to him. Because Louis Leary had lied to her when he left home to join John Brown's army. He said he was going to visit family in Pennsylvania. He didn't want her to worry about him.

12 hours later, Lewis Leary died from his wounds. I want to dive a little bit deeper into Lewis Leary because a good history ho is always curious to learn more, Kristen. That's true. Louis Leary's widow was Mary, and she would later receive the bullet-riddled shawl that Lewis wore the day he died at Harper's Ferry. She got remarried to a man named Charles Langston, and they moved to Lawrence, Kansas. and in her later years Mary raised a grandson and she would wrap him in Lewis's old shawl and she would tell her grandson all about John Brown

and took him on trips to Oswatomy where Brown had fought to make Kansas a free state and her grandson later wrote about these memories and he said, my grandmother held me on her lap and told me long, beautiful stories about people who wanted to make the Negroes free. Mary's grandson was Langston Hughes.

Oh my God. Who would become a prolific writer and a leader of the Harlem Renaissance. Wow. In 1931, he wrote a poem entitled October the 16th. Oh, shit. Which is the day Brown began his Harper's fairy raid. It's pretty cool, huh? That's amazing.

Yeah. That is absolutely amazing. Yeah. Holy shit. I read a fascinating book. for this episode called Five for Freedom, The African American Soldiers and John Brown's Army by Eugene Elmire. Great book.

Okay. Yeah. Is that where that's from? Yeah. Learn about that. So we have to get back to the rifle factory, unfortunately. Time for more death and destruction. Louis Leary's nephew, John Copeland Jr., he floated down the Shenandoah River and tried to hide behind some rocks.

Yeah. But they found him and they captured them. they were going to lynch him before a militia officer intervened and he was taken to jail in Charlestown. Wow. The enslaved man, Ben, he was armed with one of those Kansas butter knives. He immediately threw it down and surrendered. He said he had been forced into guard duty. Sure.

Which is true. Ben was also almost lynched before that officer intervened again. Yeah. And Ben went to jail in Charlestown, too. Louis Washington's coachman, Jim, he sadly drowned trying to swim across the Shannandoah River. He was the first enslaved person to die at Harper's Ferry. Yeah. All five men from the rifle factory were either dead or captured.

We're now back at the federal armory. John Brown and the militia continue exchanging fire. And it's resists. results in more death. One victim was the mayor of Harper's Ferry. Oh. Fontaine Beckham. That is an awesome name. Mr. Beckham could not believe what was happening in his quaint little town, Kristen.

Okay. And he, for some reason, kept going out onto the railroad tracks, which was out in the open. Mm-hmm. And trying to get a good look at what was going on. Oh, my God. John Brown's men kept seeing Beckham walk out, walk away, walk back, and they just thought, I think this guy's trying to shoot us or he's like a spotter. I don't know what this guy's deal is. Yeah, this is some kind of trap.

And so one of John Brown's men said, when I see him again, I'm going to shoot this guy. Okay. Sure enough, Fontaine Beckham was shot dead. He was an easy target. And now they could no longer alert the FBI. No. Little, let's go to court. Let's go to court joke there.

Once the mayor was dead, the mob surrounding the engine house at the armory, they went into a rage. And a couple of men stormed into the wager house hotel, which was where William Thompson was. Remember, he had been taken earlier when he tried to negotiate a piece. They just grabbed them and took him in. They took William Thompson out to the. railroad bridge, shot him, and then tossed his body into the Potomac River. Wow. As retaliation.

Oh. It's now 4 p.m. Monday, October 17th. More militia have arrived from Martinsburg, Virginia, which is about 20 miles from Harper's Ferry. They stormed right into the armory, and they were actually able to free some hostages that were in a nearby building. But they couldn't get anywhere near that engine. engine house. John Brown and his men were all in there, firing from every hole they could find. Meanwhile, over in Maryland, handsome spy lover husband, John Cook, he was still at that schoolhouse. Well, yeah, he was fine.

Chilling like a villain, Kristen. Yep. But he was hearing all this gunfire. And so he decided to go and check out the scene and see what's going on. He climbed up a ridge which overlooked the Potomac River in Harper's Ferry, and he saw that John Brown was surrounded in the engine house. Yeah. So John Cook did the only thing he could do. He fired his rifle from across the river.

Okay. And he said, you know, who knows maybe it would hit somebody. It'll maybe distract the militia that were surrounding the engine house. Believe it or not, this actually worked really well. not only did it scatter some of the militia, but it really confused them. They were now being shot at from across the river. Okay. And so the militia were convinced that John Brown did have more men coming.

John Brown's army suffered further casualties. Because again, his men could only shoot out of certain spots of the engine house. Right. And so that made him easy targets. When they peaked out, they just got shot. Yeah. Do you remember Stuart Taylor? He was the nervous guy that shot Haywood Shepard, the baggage master.

He peaked out, was hit, and according to a witness, suffered very much and begged us to kill him. Stuart Taylor died. John Brown's youngest son, Oliver, was also shot, and he died on the engine house floor. Oliver's wife, Martha, had been at the Kennedy Farm earlier that year to help out, and she was pregnant with Oliver's daughter. Several months later, she would give birth, and she named her. daughter, Olive, after her father. But Olive only lived two days. A month later, Martha also died from fever. According to John Brown's wife, Mary, Martha was, quote, willing to go. She wanted to be where Oliver and her baby was. Yeah. It's sad. This is just horrible. Yeah.

They wanted to end slavery. Like they... They're just getting cut to pieces. It's now 5 p.m. Monday evening, and the gunfire had mostly stopped. Militia officers approached John Brown at the engine house to negotiate. And Brown had wild demands, Kristen. You cannot make any demands. Here's what he wanted. He said, okay, let me take all of my men and all of the hostages across the Potomac River into Maryland. And then when we get to the Maryland side, I'll set all the hostages free, and then you can start chasing us.

Catch me if you can, basically. I mean, first of all, how many men does he have left? Nine. Okay. That doesn't include the enslaved men he had captured. Right, right. No, I'm talking about his army. From his army, he had nine men left.

Okay. Came in with 18. Right. It was a ridiculous proposal. Yeah. Considering the position he was in. The militia officer replied, the terms you propose, I cannot accept. Yeah.

Either way, it was now getting dark, and the militia decided to postpone any further attacks until the next morning. They had the engine house surrounded. Right. They feel like nothing's going to happen. Let's just wait until the morning. The situation in the engine house was really well. bad. Watson Brown, who had been shot earlier in the stomach, he was dying on the floor. He begged his father to kill him. John Brown refused to do it. Hostages were up against the back wall of

the engine house and they were just wondering, what the hell is going to happen to us? Yeah. How is this going to end? There were dead men scattered all over the engine house floor. And there was no hope of rescue. John Brown and his men were completely isolated in the engine house. And the men that were in the caddy corner arsenal, they were gone. They were unaccounted for. You'll find out later where they went.

John Kage's men from the rifle factory were either dead, dying, or in jail. And John Cook and the men at the Kennedy Farm, they're not going to be able to do anything. And then there were the enslaved people in the engine house. Okay. So when you've been saying hostages, I've been assuming that that includes the enslaved people? No. No. Okay.

The enslaved people were guarding the hostages. Okay. That's right. With their knives on a stick. And just imagine the situation they're in. They were given knives on a stick. Yep. And they were told they had to guard their former enslavers.

Right. There's an angry group of white men outside with guns. This is terrifying. They're now drunk, by the way, shooting pistols into the air. Cool. I can't even imagine what the fuck is going through their heads. And even if they do survive, what kind of punishment are they going to receive? Exactly. Exactly.

What are you going to say? If you remember for my last episode, Colonel Hugh Forbes warned John Brown. you need to let people know about your plan ahead of time. Yeah. And this is what... So that people can decide if they want to go with you on this. Right. And this is the result.

John Brown did not warn anyone about his plan. Right. And the enslaved men are confused and scared and they don't know what the fuck's going to happen. Yeah. John Brown received more bad news. A militia officer informed him that federal troops were on their way. and he once again insisted that Brown and his men surrender peacefully.

Brown scoffed at the idea and the militia officer recalled that John Brown quote, knew his fate and he preferred meeting it with his rifle in his hands to dying for the amusement of a crowd. And now the hostages, including Louis Washington, they were begging John Brown. Just surrender, dude.

Yeah. Just surrender. Because the last thing these hostages wanted were federal troops attacking the engine house and getting caught in the crossfire. Yeah. But John Brown again said,

no, I'm not surrendering. Lewis Washington later testified that John Brown, quote, admitted during the night that escape was now impossible and he would have to die. John Brown had entered Harper's Ferry 24 hours earlier

with 18 men. There were nine left. Let's rewind a bit, Kristen. If you remember earlier that day, John Brown let that train go and Andrew Phelps, the train conductor, telegraphed about the insurrection at Harper's Ferry. So people in the government know what's going on now, including drunk cockatoo, James Buchanan, and Secretary of War John Floyd.

Secretary of War John Floyd, as you may recall from our last episode, had received a warning from the Quakers about John Brown. Yeah, and he thought, those crazy quakes, we don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, this is bogus. Well, he heard about the Harper's Ferry. incident and he was like, oh, shit. Should have listened to that. Yikes.

So he needed some men to squash this riot. Well, you don't need anymore. I do find it fascinating that, you know, modern times we call it the Harper's Ferry Raid, but when this happened, no one called it a raid. It was insurrection, it was rebellion, it was invasion, it was riot. It's just interesting how the term has changed over time.

Why do you think it's changed? I think because it was it maybe wasn't super successful. They just were like, it was just a little raid. But at the time, like, Southerners were very terrified of John Brown. And so, yeah, they called it an invasion. It was a threat to slavery. I mean, they took it very seriously. As Frederick Douglass warned John Brown.

Yes. So anyway, Secretary of War John Floyd said, all right, I got to get some men to Harper's Ferry and deal with this riot. At the time, the U.S. military was tiny. There was 10 to 15,000 men total. Oh. And they're spread out across the country. Okay. There's not that many soldiers in the military.

Compare that to today, we have over one million active service members. The only soldiers John Floyd had at his disposal were 90 Marines that were stationed in Washington, D.C. Okay. But John Floyd also had two highly skilled military officers to lead the 90 Marines. The first man was James Ewell Brown Stewart. Most people called him Jeb. Kristen, if there are any Civil War history hose listening to right now, they're cream in their jeans.

Ew, okay. They're sneezing in their jeans. Calm down, hoes. Hang on. I'm about to bust. There we go. They're going to bust. Jeb Stewart is known in history for his service to the Confederacy during the Civil War.

And he had actually served as a cavalry officer in Kansas during the bleeding Kansas conflict. Okay. He was quite familiar with old Osawatomi Brewery, But when Jeb Stewart heard about the riot at Harper's Ferry, there was no mention of John Brown yet. He just heard, there was a riot at Harper's Ferry. We got to do something. Right. Jeb Stewart was in Washington, D.C. on business, and he volunteered to lead the Marines.

The other officer that John Floyd assigned was Colonel Robert E. Lee. Oh! Who lived in nearby Arlington, Virginia. And Kristen, if Civil War buffs weren't creaming over Jeb Stewart, they're definitely creaming now over Robert E. Lee. Multiple O's, we call it. Yes. For you, non-U.S. history hoes. Robert E. Lee is a very famous general who fought for the confederacy during the American Civil War, but he was also a well-respected general in the United States Army as well.

served in the Mexican-American War, was related to George Washington by marriage. Many a statue that needs to come down. Also an enslaver. There you go. At this time, Robert E. Lee was one of the United States top military commanders. He was actually in the middle of dealing with his father-in-law's estate. His father-in-law had recently passed away, and apparently it was an absolute mess, and he was trying to deal with it all. But then he received a message that Harper's Ferry was under attack and that he,

had to serve his country and squash the insurrection. So Secretary of War John Floyd put Robert E. Lee in charge of the 90 Marines, and Jeb Stewart would also assist. Around midnight on Monday, October 17th, Robert E. Lee, Jeb Stewart, and the 90 Marines had arrived at Harper's Ferry. And local militia filled them in on the situation, and they were very concerned that John Brown had reinforcements in the hills of Maryland. thanks to handsome spy lover John Cook firing, you know, pot shots at them from across the river. But Robert E. Lee was a very experienced military commander. He did not believe for one minute John Brown had reinforcements because he said if he had reinforcements, they would be here already. Fair enough.

So Robert E. Lee assessed the situation for what it was. There were a few men in this engine house with hostages. Robert E. Lee telegraphed back to Washington, D.C. that he would not need any more men. he'd take care of it with the 90 Marines. Robert E. Lee's plan was simple. He would formally offer John Brown's men protection and safety if they surrendered. And Robert E. Lee assumed this offer would be declined. And so he told his men to immediately storm the engine house with bayonets once John Brown rejected this offer.

He didn't want to give John Brown or his men any time to think or prepare. Of course, it was now midnight, so Robert E. Lee decided to wait until sunrise to carry out his plan. It's now the morning of Tuesday, October 18th. Jeb Stewart approached the doors of the engine house and knocked. An older man with a long white beard opened the door about four inches. Well, okay, you can't do a visual gag. Sorry. I'm wearing my John Brown shirt, and he's got his sexy, long white beard on. Yeah.

Okay. There we go. Yeah, sorry. Jeb Stewart approached the doors of the engine house and knocked. An older man with a long white beard opened the door about four inches with his rifle peeking out, his body blocking the entrance. Jeb Stewart couldn't believe his eyes. It was his old foe from Kansas, Oswatomie Brown. You were old Osawatomie Brown of Kansas?

Stewart asked him. Well, they do call me that sometimes, Lieutenant, replied John Brown. Jeb Stewart was blunt with him. This is a bad business you're engaged in, Captain. United States troops have arrived and I am sent to demand your surrender. John Brown replied, upon what terms? Jeb Stewart gave John Brown Lee's formal offer of protection. John Brown once again asked to be escorted across the Potomac River into Maryland.

Jeb Stewart said, I have no authority to agree to such an arrangement. my orders are to demand your surrender on the terms I have stated. John Brown again refused, telling Jeb Stewart he would rather die fighting. The hostages inside now started yelling to Jeb Stewart. Go get Robert E. Lee and have him talk to John Brown. But Jeb Stewart's orders were clear. He was not to negotiate any further.

This was his only deal. Is that your final answer, Captain? asked Jeb Stewart. Yes, replied John Brown. Jeb Stewart stepped away from the door and waved his hat in the air. That was the signal. Twelve Marines stepped forward with sledgehammers and banged on the large wooden doors. Unfortunately for the Marines, John Brown's men had fortified the doors. There were fire engines blocking them, and they had secured the doors from the inside with ropes.

So whenever the Marines would hit the door, it was like hitting a giant spring. The door would just bounce right back. Yeah. But the swift response from the Marines did startle John Brown. I'm sure. After a few sledgehammer hits, there was silence. And then the Marines came back with a large, heavy ladder. And they basically used it as a battering ram.

After a few blows, they had finally splintered open the door big enough for men to crawl through. As Marines poured in, John Brown's men began to fire. One Marine was struck in the stomach. Another Marine took a bullet to the face. Lewis Washington urged his fellow hostages to raise their hands in the air so the Marines wouldn't shoot him. One man in Brown's Army, Shields Green. He was the former enslaved man who had been living with Frederick Douglass but had joined Brown's Army. he put down his weapon

and he joined the other enslaved people in the back corner of the engine house. He hoped to be mistaken as one of them. Yeah. The engine house was now filled with smoke from all the shooting. And one Marine,

Lieutenant Israel Green, he had managed to make it inside and he took cover behind one of the fire engines. No one had noticed he was there. Lewis Washington saw him, though, and he pointed at John Brown and screamed,

There's Brown. Brown was on one knee, reloading his gun. Lieutenant Israel Green took out his saber and he slashed down at Brown's head. Oh my God. But he missed, and he had only grazed John Brown's neck. And John Brown said, ow! How was that? Oh, that stinks.

No, John Brown fell to the ground, bleeding. Sorry. Israel Green then thrust his saber forward toward Brown's chest. But miraculously, John Brown was wearing some sort of. of belt buckle or strap across his chest. And it literally bent the sword as he tried to stab John Brown. Wow. So instead Israel Green simply beat John Brown over the head with the sword's hilt

until John Brown lay motionless on the floor. Other Marines slowly made their way into the engine house. One Marine jammed his sword so violently into one of Brown's men, it pinned him against the brick wall. Oh, my God. At that moment, John Brown's men finally surrendered. All of the hostages and the enslaved men were rescued without harm, and the attack on Harper's Ferry was officially over. Robert E. Lee wrote to his superiors that the ordeal was over in a few minutes.

As John Brown and his men were escorted out of the engine house, they were mocked, they were jeered, they were spat on. One of John Brown's men, Jeremiah Anderson, was mortally wounded, and he was, quote, vomiting gore. Oh. He was carried outside of the engine house, and as he lay dying in the street, a man walked by and quipped, well, it takes you a hell of a long time to die. Wow. Watson Brown, who had been shot in the stomach, was still dying from his stomach wounds. He was carried to a nearby guard room and given water, but he would die the next morning. He left behind a wife, Belle, and a two-month-old baby.

Well, Lewis Washington, you know, the great-grand-nephew of George Washington. Yeah, nobody forgot. He waltzed right on out of that engine house to some cheers. Oh, my God. He was unharmed, and he took back his great-grand-uncle's sword that John Brown had confiscated. And then he inquired about some breakfast. I hate him. Yeah.

He supported the convention. Confederacy during the Civil War. You're kidding me. Can you believe that? Meanwhile, believe it or not, John Brown was still alive. He was carried to the Paymaster's office along with buff boy Aaron Stevens, who was also miraculously still alive. I thought he was shot multiple times. He was.

He was still alive. Okay. Well, everyone thought he was so hot. They were all just nursing him back to health. You poor. sweaty man Oh A flood of reporters

tried to get into the room where John Brown and Aaron Stevens were and Colonel Robert Ely asked John Brown if he would like for them to be removed

but John Brown was thrilled there were reporters there and he was more than happy to speak and quote make himself and his motives

clearly understood absolutely later that that day, the governor of Virginia, Henry Wise, who by the way, looks exactly like Billy Bob Thornton. So just imagine Billy Bob Thornton with kind of like hair down to his shoulders. All right. And that's Henry Wise. He arrived in Harper's Ferry.

And when Henry Wise had heard about the attack on Harper's Ferry and he heard it was abolitionists, he wanted to personally lead the militia and defeat them. But he got there way too late. It sounds like he didn't really want to do it. When he got there, he was like, all right, I'm ready. Let's get him. Oh, if I'd been here on time, I would have done this myself. I was busy, though.

And Robert Ely was like, you know, it's done, dude. Yeah, yeah. Well, Henry Wise met with Brown, and he started asking him some questions. And John Brown basically spilled everything. He felt he had nothing to hide, and he was very proud of what he had done. The Marines then found Brown's written constitution and his, Declaration of Independence and Wise started reading over all of it. Yeah.

And he was horrified. Who to heavens? This guy was trying to overthrow slavery. Well, yeah. John Brown proudly claimed he had written those documents himself. He was very proud of that. Well, just like many of John Brown's adversaries, Governor Henry Wise came away, impressed by John Brown.

You're kidding me. He is a bundle of the best nerves. I ever saw cut and thrust and bleeding and in bonds. He is a fanatic, vain and garrulous. I don't know. But firm and truthful and intelligent. Wow. Henry Wise questioned John Brown for three hours.

And afterward, John Brown looked at the reporters in the room, and he exclaimed, You had better all of you people in the South. Prepare yourselves for a settlement of that question that might. come up. You may dispose of me very easily. I'm nearly disposed of now. But this question is still to be settled, this Negro question I mean. The end of that is not yet. That is an incredible quote. And prophetic. If we were to assess the situation immediately after, John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry was a complete disaster.

Sure. All of the enslaved people that John Brown had liberated. Were not liberated? They were not liberated. They were returned to captivity. One of them was in jail. Most of his men were either dead or captured. And John Brown himself would surely die,

either from his wounds or from the gallows. But John Brown's finest moment was yet to come. With the whole nation now listening, John Brown's powerful words in theatrics at his upcoming trial would shake the United States to its core. Stay tuned for the thrilling conclusion. For real this time. Wow. So yeah, my next part will cover his trial. That was incredible.

Thank you. That was really incredible. Thank you, babe. I do have a couple notes for you. Okay. I wanted to talk a little bit more about Harper's Ferry. During the Civil War, Harper's Ferry became a battleground. It changed hands between the Union and Confederacy many times.

Yeah. Obviously, there's a federal armory there, so. Yeah, it's a spot. And people wanted it. And basically today, the entire town is a national park. Oh, my God, we've got to go there. And the surrounding areas. The federal armory is gone.

It was destroyed during the Civil War. But the engine house where John Brown and his men stood their ground, it's still there in Harper's Ferry. Wow. It miraculously survived the Civil War. After the Civil War, the engine house became a tourist attraction. It was very popular with formerly enslaved people. Oh, wow. Very popular.

The words John Brown's fort were painted on the side of the building. In 1891, a businessman bought the building for $1,000. What year was this? 1891. Oh, okay. Just for inflation, he paid $33,000 for it. Okay. And he moved the building brick by brick to display it at an expo in Chicago.

You asshole. But it turns out the people in Chicago didn't really care that much about John Brown's fort. it was not a very popular attraction, but a group of activists bought the building back and moved it back to Harper's Ferry, brick by brick. Oh, my Lord. However, it's no longer in its original location. It's about 150 feet away from where it originally stood.

To this day, it is the most visited tourist attraction in West Virginia. Wow. First of all, I hate that it was moved. That is so obnoxious. It was moved to Chicago. Now, it couldn't go back to its original spot because the B&O Railroad Company had built like an embankment. I don't know what the word is, but the armory was gone at that point. And so...

There was just a Hardee's. There was just a Hardee's and a Payless. Yeah. No, but they like the engineers came in and made like an embankment and for the railroad to pass through. so they literally couldn't put it back where it was originally. So that's why they had to move at 150 feet. But, yeah, it's there. It's intact.

It looks exactly like it does when John Brown was in there. Wow. It's pretty incredible. My question for all you history hoes out there and for you, Kristen, this is your history ho work. Okay. folks, why do you think John Brown didn't leave Harper's Ferry when things started getting spicy? Why did he stay? For the same reason that he wouldn't sell the wool business, for the same reason that he wouldn't give up on anything.

You think it was stubborn? Yeah, I think he was very stubborn. Do you think he wanted to die? Sure. Sure. I think he was okay with that. Yeah. But maybe part of that is like you see your son die. You know, I don't know at what point he made that decision.

I'm going to die for this or I'm at peace with that. Yeah. So some historians believe that his plan all along was to die at Harper's Ferry. He had no intention of leaving Harper's Ferry. I don't believe that. What do you think? Yeah, I think I tend to agree with what your analysis of. He was a stubborn man.

He truly believed people would flock to him when they heard about it. And, you know, Frederick Douglass was right that once Southerners heard that there was a slave insurrection in Harper's Ferry, they mobilized. They'd mobilize so quick. Yeah. And he was in a steel trap. So. And I think John Brown didn't do a good job of thinking about what it would be like to be actively enslaved. Right.

I mean. Well, in Colonel Hugh Forbes did warn him about this. Yes. You know, for all the bullshit Colonel Hugh Forbes that he was right about that. Well, yeah. And I don't think it takes, I mean, I don't want to be rude about it. But like, you have to think about what it must be like to be in that position. And yes, obviously slavery is terrible.

But if you have survived it so far, you've probably seen unspeakable horrors so you know how much worse it can be for you. And all of a sudden you hear some guy with knives on a stick. has come to town and you're supposed to just automatically jump up and join him? Join my army and you get a free knife on a stick. Well, here's the thing. If he had found a way to approach people or get the information out, just like Colonel Hugh Forbes had said, I do think he could have gotten support. Now, granted, that would be really dangerous, hard to do, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. but to expect people to just in a split second,

leave what they know, leave their families. There's no doubt he should have, when he took the armory, he should have loaded his wagon with all the weapons and left. Yeah, absolutely. And he had plenty of time to do that. Yeah. And who knows what would have happened. But, you know, if he truly believed people were coming to help him, why would you leave?

That's the rallying point. Yeah. Come to Harper's Ferry. Yeah, you're right. And he said, he stayed there. I do love him. For all of his flaws, he... Well, this is, it's amazing what he did.

It's an amazing story, yeah. It's amazing what he tried to do. It's amazing what all of these men banded together and tried to do. Yeah. And it's really sad. that it turned out this way. Yeah. Part four will cover not only John Brown's trial, but the trials of some of the men in his army.

And then what happened after. There's some cool stories. There's some sad stories. There's some funny stories. But it's going to be... Will another penis be blown off into oblivion? Because that was a real high point of this episode for me. Yeah.

No more dicks will be shot off. I want to know which button you were thinking of pressing on that soundboard just then. I was looking. But, yeah, I didn't see any. You know, last episode, we never did history homework, history ho homework. And I remember mentioning it to you on one of our walks, I was like, oh, man, I forgot to assign homework. And you reminded me, you know, sometimes you don't have to assign homework. Maybe, you know, it's Friday.

Give people a break. Give people a break, no homework. your homework this week is more of a just a, you know, reflection question about, you know, why did John Brown not leave Harper's Ferry? So there are no wrong answers here. I just like to hear people's thoughts. What if they come up with something really stupid? Everyone obviously do the reflection, but also please, while you're at it, do something for me,

which is try to come up with an answer that it is also so stupid that makes Storm go, You know what? There are wrong answers. Okay, that's the real homework. Give me the worst answer you can think of for why John Brown stayed at Harper's Harry. No. You did an incredible job. Thanks. I appreciate it.

Well, no, I appreciate all the work and care you put into this because, like, all I've ever known about him was, like, a paragraph from history books. Yeah, we've talked about that. Yeah, and he's made, well, I'm so sorry for bringing it up again. But he's... Can't believe you brought that up for me. he's made out to be a nut. And, you know, he was a bit of a nut. But he was unapologetically himself, and he truly believed in the things he talked about.

And is it really so nutty to say, you know what? When something's as bad as slavery, yeah, we will get violent. Yeah, and you'll see in this next part that his trial was a circus. Oh, yeah. And this whole incident really shifted the political landscape and the public's opinion on slavery. Wow. Truly did. Okay, John Brown.

So there you go. Chaotic. Part four will be the throwing conclusion. I promise, part four is it. I did try to fit it in here, but I... I'm already stuffed, Norm. Your stuff full of meat. Yeah.

You can't give me any more of these meaty boys. Too much meat. What are we at right now? Two hours on the dot. Woo! Well, should we wrap it up? I think so. Okay, everybody.

If you're liking the podcast, first of all, thank you so much. We're still new. I mean... Yeah, and we saw that we were in the top ten of history podcasts. That is so cool. It's funny, I didn't really know the significance of it. And so one morning I saw that and I was like, oh, hey, cool, we were in the top ten. And I just like casually mentioned it to Kristen.

And she was like, what? And she like dropped everything and ran to my computer. So I guess it's a big deal. It's really exciting. Yeah. So thank you, everyone, for your reviews and your kind words and just listening. That helps too. And, yeah, being in the top 10 was really cool to see for being a new podcast.

I think that's awesome. It's absolutely awesome. Yeah. So, yeah, thank you so much. If you want to support us. Rate us, review us, tell a friend, hell, tell an enemy. And yeah. Call up that asshole from high school.

Let me tell you about a podcast I just listened to. And you know what? You should listen to this history podcast, you son of a bitch. Norm, you know what they say about history hoes? We always cite our sources. That is right. For this episode, I got my information from Midnight, Rite. John Brown in the raid that sparked the Civil War by Tony Horwitz

to purge this land with blood, a biography of John Brown, by Stephen Oates, Five for Freedom, the African-American soldiers in John Brown's Army, by Eugene L. Meyer, and the John Brown online exhibit from the West Virginia Archives and History. Fantastic online resource, filled with primary sources, Kristen, a history-hosed wet dream. Ew! That's enough, sir. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast.

Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcast. And until next time, do-to-loo, ta-ta, and cheerio.