An Old Timey Podcast - 42: The Daring Escape of Robert Smalls (Part 1)

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

As an enslaved man, Robert Smalls had one goal – to attain freedom for himself and his family. The odds were against him. He’d hoped to buy his wife and children from their enslaver, but saving that amount of money might take a lifetime. Then, when Robert’s home state of South Carolina seceded from the Union, freedom seemed even more out of reach. But then Robert got an idea. It would be bold. It would be dangerous. It would also require the cooperation, discretion, and skill of several other enslaved people.  The craziest part? It worked.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Lineberry, Cate. Be Free or Die: The Amazing Story of Robert Smalls’ Escape from Slavery to Union Hero. St. Martin’s Press, 2017.Miller Jr., Edward. Gullah Statesman: Robert Smalls from Slavery to Congress, 1839-1915. University of South Carolina Press, 2008.Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear you, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And smack my ass and call me sassy. It's Kristen Caruso. Maybe later tonight. And on this episode, I'll be talking about the daring escape of Robert Smalls.

Who the hell? You're in for a real treat, Kristen. I'm excited. Why? Just because I use the words daring escape? Well, I'm also excited because I have no idea what you're talking about. You've been very secretive. as I usually am.

And I want to know what this Bobby Smalls guy is up to. Is it okay if I call him Bobby? He didn't go by Bobby. Oh, okay, well, fine. I guess you're probably thinking I should do a Patreon plug right now, huh? Yeah. Well, let me get there. Everyone, I've got big news.

This is news to me, too. What do you got? Last week, our friend Tim told us about a wonderful device that he had recently purchased. It was one of those camera in the ear cleaner devices. Oh, yeah. I personally was blown away by his tail. I had no idea that you could buy those things for personal use. You didn't know that?

No! Man, where have you been? You've been living under a rock? No, I have not. I've been watching these videos online because I like watching rug cleaning videos. I like a good pet grooming video. anything really satisfying. You've been watching professional ear cleaners.

Well, that's what I thought was available to me. Okay? Then Tim came in and blew my mind. So what did I do, folks? I purchased one of these devices. Norm was disgusted. He wanted no part of it. And he also had the nerve to tell me, your ears are clean.

You won't even find anything. I was so sure there would be nuggets of gold in there. No, your ears are like spotless. It was one of the great disappointments of my life. Yeah. Dropping out of law school, my... And then buying that wonderful ear camera thing and finding basically nothing!

I got something good, though. Anyway, what I'm trying to tell you folks... Oh, you don't want to talk about what I found, huh? Well, no, I was really excited that you had something in there, and I was really jealous that it wasn't happening to me. What I'm trying to tell you folks is, if you don't sign up for our Patreon, you're going to be missing out. You'll be just as disappointed as me buying an ear camera and finding a whole lot of nothing inside there. Okay?

So you got to get on our Patreon. It's patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. And at the $5 level, just $5 a month, that's all you need, baby. That's when you get the bonus episodes. And they come with video. So you get to just see our beautiful faces, okay? Uh-huh. And, you know, sometimes the podcasters, they aren't a good-looking crew.

But this crew, this crew right here? Oh, my God, you've never seen such good-looking mid-life Midwesterners in your whole days. Is this off the cuff? What is this? Obviously, it's off the cuff. I'm not reading anything. Clearly, you aren't. You didn't rehearse this at all.

What was I supposed to? Yes. Is it terrible? I just don't know where this is going. I thought you are going to tell the people, if you joined our Patreon, you could watch ear cleaning videos of us. Oh, disgusting. No, my God. People may want to see what I pulled out of my ear.

That's, or not. Let's not, you know what, I'm just disgusted that you would even bring that up during this very professional segment I'm doing, plugging our Patreon. Anyhow, if you're feeling a little spindier, and I'm sure you are, get on that pig butter tier. That's the $10 tier. Let me tell you what you get there. You get those monthly bonus episodes with the video, of course. You also get early ad-free video episodes of every single episode of an old-timey podcast. Plus, you get into our Discord to shitty chat the day away.

Plus, you get an autographed card. You get into the Discord and the $5 level, too. Listen, once they go to the website, and I'm sure they're already there, they'll find out that I'm, you know, doing this off the cuff. You should have gone to the website and read all the tears. I invented the website. And, oh, also at the $10 level, you get monthly trivia. Mm-hmm.

And that's a good time. All right, I'm done with the plug. Wow, great job, Kristen. Thank you. Thank you. You clearly worked hard on that. Oh. Is that what you were doing all morning working on that plug?

That's right. Wow. Working on that plug. Thank you. Thank you. Now tell me a story about Robert Smalls and his daring escape. Is this a prison escape, Norm? Well, kind of. I guess you could consider it a prison escape. Well, no, that's, that doesn't make any sense at all. Either you're in prison or you're not. Well, maybe you feel like, maybe you feel like your life is a prison. Okay. I mean. Listen, listen. Little poetry writer. That's not what we're going for. Hmm.

Kristen? Yes. Did you know that it's Black History Month? I did. That's good because the U.S. government wants you to maybe forget about Black History Month. You know, to them it actually doesn't exist anymore. Right. We're removing it from all the calendars, removing it from all the school curriculums.

But I'm here to assure you history owes here at an old-timey podcast, we don't forget about Black History Month. And that's why today I'm going to tell you a story that is going to blow your mind. Okay. Kristen, let's travel back in time. Do-loo. Where are we going? Where are we going? Charleston, South Carolina.

Oh. The time? The early morning of May 13th, 1862. Oh. Pop quiz, Kristen. What event was in full swing in the United States in 1862? Norm, I can tell you're making fun of me because I like to talk about very serious things and say they're in full swing, which is, you know, really wow that dance you're doing my god maybe you don't want to be on the ten dollar level

people did it look like i was jerking off two men yeah and you're really happy about it and absolutely not really pleasing anyone because you're not keeping good rhythm if i'm offering a critique um the thing that was in full swing my dear sir was the civil war she's done it you win a story Oh. That's right, Kristen. The American Civil War. Charleston, South Carolina was one of the busiest port cities in the south, and it was currently being blockaded by the United States Navy.

In fact, most of the South's coastline and rivers were currently under a blockade. It was known as the Anaconda Plan. The United States wanted to completely isolate the Confederacy and choke them out. Oh. Like that movie Anaconda with Jennifer Lopez. Never saw it too scary. I think John Voight is in that movie, and he gets absolutely destroyed by the Anaconda. I mean, sure.

We should watch that sometimes. No, I am too scared. Come on. I hate snakes. Maybe for my birthday? I hate your birthday. Me too, because it means I'm getting older. Oh.

On May 13, 1862, at around 4.30 a.m. All was quiet aboard one of those union ships blocking Charleston. The USS onward. The ship's captain was a 30-year-old handsome, dark-haired, sexy man. Handsome and sexy.

His name was John Frederick Nichols. Should I be looking him up? Should I have a poster of him in my bedroom? Um, I guess you could look him up, sure. Why are you hesitating? I won't if you don't want me to. I don't want you to divorce me, so go ahead and look at him. Oh, okay.

I think he's pretty sexy. My goodness, that is a handsome fella. He really didn't want to face the camera head on. That's just to critique. No one did back then. Okay, great. John Frederick Nichols was enjoying a peaceful morning, watching as a heavy fog rolled in under a dim morning light.

But Kristen, his peace was interrupted when a member of the lookout crew raised the alarm. Captain, a ship's approaching dead ahead. Captain Nichols looked out and saw the silhouette of a ship heading right towards him. He assumed it was a Confederate ironclad, which is a new type of ship that was covered in metal. It could easily deflect cannon shots. And it looked like it was going to try to ram the USS onward. Becads!

John Frederick Nichols yelled out, All hens to quarters! He was going to take this damn thing out before. it sunk his ship. Yeah. Sailors scurried into their positions. They manned the guns and turned the ship to face the incoming vessel. Ready! Aim! But then, a sailor yelled out,

I see something that looks like a white flag! Captain Nichols looked out, and sure enough, the ship was flying a white flag. And this was no ironclad ship. It was a steamer ship. Captain Nichols yelled out the order, Stand down! Stand down! The mysterious ship pulled up to the side of the USS onward,

close enough to where the two crews could start yelling at each other. Yeah. And Captain Nichols was like, identify yourself. Then, to his surprise, 16 black people, including eight men, five women, and three children, came out onto the deck of the ship. Well, thank God they didn't fire on them. Okay. They started jumping and dancing and shouting in celebration. What in the world is going on?

Then another person appeared. He was a well-dressed, 23-year-old black man standing five feet five inches tall. And he yelled out, Good morning, sir. I've brought you some United States guns. Oh. Captain Nichols was stunned. Sure enough, on the deck of the mysterious ship were several large Confederate cannons.

Captain Nichols turned to the man and said, Who are you, stranger? what's your name? My name, replied the man. He lit a cigarette, slapped on some aviator sunglasses. Shut up. Looked Captain Nichols in the eye

and said, my name is Robert fucking Smalls. And then did they make out? Damn, that would be epic. I mean, it just felt like it. It felt like the sexual attention was there. Okay.

That last part didn't happen. that way. But based on what Robert Smalls had just pulled off, it was certainly warranted because he had just stolen a Confederate ship loaded with weapons and delivered it to the United States Navy. That is incredible. And that's not all. Also on board the ship were 16 enslaved people, including Robert Smalls' family. And they were now free. And you might be thinking, wow, that sounds pretty damn badass. How come I haven't heard of this guy? Yeah. And my reply would be, exactly. So in this series, Kristen, I'm going to teach your ignorant ass about Robert Smalls. Shit! Who he was, what he did, and why he deserves to be remembered as an American hero.

Uh, shouting the battle cry of freedom. Oh, with joy, Norm, come on. You're singing like someone who's not very confident in their singing abilities. That's me. So series, not just one episode. We're getting, we're getting a full-blown meaty boy. Okay. That's right. Yay. So Kristen, where do we start with a story like this? I don't know, especially because I'm just now hearing about the man. Well, you know me. I'm a dirty little slut for contest. My God. Let's start by talking about one of our favorite subjects on this podcast. Slavery! Oh, don't say it's our favorite. Well, remember, like, our first eight episodes, slavery was mentioned in every single episode. We're going back to our roots. Very good. Even in the Lucille Ball part one, I think we'd

mentioned slavery. Yeah, it's really terrible how it all leads back to that for America. It's true. Maybe if we just erase all the history, it'll go away. You know? Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea, and I think we're trying that right now. I don't think I need to explain how awful slavery was. Do you need an explanation? I don't know. Lately, I've heard that sometimes when people are going on dates now, just as a little temperature check, they'll ask, hey, who were the bad guys in World War II? And then, you know, that is a good icebreaker. I think so. But no, no, you do not need to tell us how bad slavery was. Okay. Well, in South Carolina, it was really, really bad. and the white folks run in the state

really, really enjoyed slavery when our founding fathers were working on the Constitution in 1787, if anyone brought up the issue of slavery and about possibly doing something about it, the delegates from South Carolina would be like, don't remember in dumb and dumber,

the most annoying sound in the world? Oh, okay. And so these delegates did that because slavery was the bloodline of the economy in South Carolina. Carolina. And slave people did brutal work in unbearable heat, cultivating indigo, rice, and cotton. And wow, all that free labor and valuable crops made a lot of folks rich in South Carolina. And they used that money to build themselves these big, beautiful plantations lined with giant oak trees and Spanish moss.

Stunning architecture. And wow, look at that beautiful brick chimps. with finger indentations from the child slaves that made the bricks. Wow, Norm, what are you talking about? Absolutely gorgeous. And if you look out back, you'll see rows of tiny, cramped wooden shacks with dirt floors. I don't know about you, Kristen, but I really hope one day our niece and nephew get married in a setting like that. It is so weird, so weird that plantation weddings are a thing. It does make me uncomfortable, and I don't like it.

Are you going to talk about how all those references are from our trip to Charleston? Yeah, get to that. Oh, okay, okay, okay. For you history hoes, I highly recommend if you find yourself in the Charleston area, go on some plantation tours. They're pretty illuminating. Yeah, they were fascinating. And I think super fascinating because you and I went on three plantation tours or four? Well, actual plantations, two.

Right, okay. And then we did some house tours in Charleston. It was fascinating, partly just to see how different groups address history. And, you know, one of the first houses we went into in Charleston, they had the enslaved people's quarters, and it was not talked about it all, not even part of the tour, which I thought was. really weird because why wouldn't it be part of the tour if you're touring this home? And you're wanting to know, well, like, how did people live back then? Like, well, obviously, these white folks didn't just live without help. That's right. And then, man, we went on a badass plantation tour where the tour guide told people too much truth. And that was a fun, fun little. Oh, that guy

That was awesome. Oh, I wish I could remember his name. That was one of the best tours I've ever been on. Yes. Yeah. I remember this one lady was like, well, they had slavery in Africa too. And this dude was like, yeah, let's talk about the differences between slavery in Africa and slavery in the United States.

In the United States, you could become a slave based on the color of your skin. In Africa, they had slavery for like war. You know, it's much different. I don't know if you remember this part, but she kept pressing it, trying to make the United States slavery somehow better. And he goes, what's your point? Yeah, that's right. And it was beautiful.

What's your point? Yeah, it was great. And then on the last plantation tour we did, oh my gosh, our tour guide, God bless her. That tour was so bad, it inspired me to go to grad school. school. She was every bit of maybe 23, and she was trying. And when she addressed slavery, it was like, and you would not believe the work. If it were me, I'd be like, come on. No thanks. That's really how it was, it was like if a valley girl did a tour on slavery and a plantation. It was the most amazing thing because you knew her heart was in the right place.

God bless her. Her mind was in the clouds and we were there suffering through it all. But no, it was fascinating to be in Charleston. Charleston is such a cool city. I mean, if you are into history, you've got to go to Charleston. Yes. Kristen, the state of South Carolina relied on enslaved people so much that there were more enslaved people than whites in the state. Yeah. And one of those enslaved people was Robert Small's mother. Lydia Polite. Lydia Polite was born around the year 1796 near Bufurt, South Carolina.

Not Beaufort? Okay, I looked this up. Oh. In North Carolina, there's a Beaufort. Okay. In South Carolina, there's a Beaufort. All right. Lydia was born on the Ashdale Plantation.

It's located about 75 miles. southwest of Charleston. I already checked Kristen. It's no longer there. As an enslaved child, Lydia did things like gathering firewood or picking plants for cooking. She was never allowed to learn how to read or write. However, her mother did teach her Gullah, the language of her people. Are you familiar with Gullah? No. So Lydia grew up in Gullah culture. So this was a combination of different West African tribes that were integrated due to the slave trade. So the Gullah developed their own language, music, traditions. It was a way for the enslaved people to maintain some sort of identity and to support each other.

It's estimated that there are around 200,000 descendants of Gullah people today. Fun fact, Kristen. Wow. Wow. Do you remember the Nick Jr. show, Gulla Gala Island? You know, weirdly, I remember the theme song. Wasn't it like Gala Gala, Gala Island? You mean this one?

Oh, shut up. Yep. Let's all go to Gola Gola Island. Yeah. Gala Island is based on creator Ron Day's experiences growing up in Gullah Culture. I was a little too old for that show because it came out in like 94 or 95, I think. But man, it had some catchy songs. Clearly.

As you've just heard, I do remember there was like a giant yellow frog on the show. I think his name was like Binia. Norm, you're trying to create this false narrative where you didn't watch the show. And yet you're like, listen to me as I hear it as I sing all the songs. And also as I talk to you about my favorite characters. Hang on. Yeah, I do you remember the Binya, Binya, the yellow frog. Oh, now he has a name.

He had like this super raspy voice. He was like, oh, my name's Benia, Jr. He sounded like RFK Jr. Oh, great. Foxxies, it's cause I just a bit. Anyway. What was your favorite episode, Norm? Let's move on, please.

I have a lot to talk about. Oh, sure, okay. On this episode of an old-timey podcast. And plus, you never watched the show because you were so old. Yeah, I'm mature. Okay. Yep. I was too busy making out with girls.

Oh, absolutely. To watch Gullagallah Island. Yeah, yeah, sure. And telling them, ladies, please, I'm only one young man. I'll be right back, babe. I'm going to go get another Capri Sun. Yeah, unwrap another kudos bar for me. Oh, my God, kudos bar.

Have it waiting on my nightstand. Yeah. Anyway, let's get back to terrible shit. Okay. Life on the Ashdale Plantation was tough. Lydia witnessed a lot of horrible shit, but when she was nine years old, her life changed forever. In 1805, during Christmas time, Lydia's enslavers, John Mee's. McKee and his wife, Margaret, paid a visit to the Ashdale Plantation.

You see, the McKees owned a lot of property, including a lot of enslaved people. They had 95 enslaved people. Whoa. And they didn't live on the plantation year round. They spent most of their time living in their house in Beaufort. But the McKees had a tradition every year of visiting the Ashdale Plantation and gifting the enslaved children oranges. Oh.

Wait, is that where this? I don't know where that tradition comes from. Okay. But I know you get an orange every Christmas. Yes. We both get oranges every Christmas from Chererey Bird, your mother. Well, and that comes from my dad's side of the family. Every year there was a...

I know. Well, I know. Isn't your family former enslavers? Obviously former, yes. But yeah, you go do some genealogy. Daryl quit 20 years ago. You do some genealogy work on. on your Missouri ancestors, and it can be pretty alarming.

So, yeah, every Christmas the McKees would go to the Ashdale Plantation and give the enslaved children oranges. And when they met Lydia to give her her oranges, they were impressed by her. She was charming. She was smart. And so the McKees decided, hey, let's bring Lydia with us to Beaufort. And she can work as a house slave. Oh, my God. Sure, we're separating her from her entire family.

but it's no big deal. It's a great opportunity. From that point forward, Lydia rarely saw her family. Only on Sundays when she had a day off. And she had to walk the six miles from Beaufort to the Ashdale plantation to see them. Boy, you weren't kidding when you were like, let's stop talking about fun stuff like kudos bars and get to the horrible stuff. How awful. Mm-hmm. And I'm just now thinking what that must have been like for the parents of enslaved. children, these fuckers show up with a bag of oranges, like they're God's gift to humanity. And if your kid is too charming or too cute or too whatever, obviously you don't want them to

act up. You don't want that either. But like, if they shine too brightly, then the risk is they get taken from you. Well, and you also have to think about, like, there's a conflict there to where you obviously want what's best for your children and working in the house is much, much better than working in the field. So there is that as well. Okay, I'm going to say, I hear you and you're probably completely right. Again, if I'm thinking like a parent, I'm like, okay, it's better to be in the house unless my daughter is going to be raped all the time. Not to say that being in the

field would stop that from happening. But I just think there's probably easier access and the parents aren't there to do what they can to protect. Well, and a lot of enslaved people said like people that worked in the house were like their connection to the white world. It's like they heard the conversations. They were more likely to learn how to read and write if they worked in the house. And so it definitely was like an elevated, it was elevated work. Yeah. You know. I believe that, sure. Would you like to look at the McKee House in Beaufort?

Yes. Is it still standing or no? It is still around. What do I need to look up? It is located at... Ah! Okay. 511 Prince Street, Beaufort, South Carolina. Wow. Oh, my gosh.

Okay, I hate to say I love it, but I do. I love this house. I know. That is terrible, but it's... I mean, I just, I love a South Carolina house. They did their porches right. Fuck one level of porch. They do porches on both stories.

You know, that's a good point. Yeah. Southern porches are amazing. The porches in the Midwest, got to say, I'm kind of disappointed. Rude, Norm. Oh, wow, this place is cool. Oh, gosh, and you can even see the slave quarters. Where Lydia lived.

Wow. You know what? This is another thing I like about Charleston is they didn't tear this shit down. I'm sure some people did. But I mean, a lot of the original slave quarters are still around in Charleston homes. And actually, I remember watching a season of this old house and they redid a house in Charleston. Yeah. And they renovated the slave quarters.

And it was weird. But it was there. It would be very, very strange. I think they turned it into a dining room, which felt weird and odd, but, you know. I don't know. I just feel like it's like this is like sacred and we shouldn't touch it. We should let people see this. I don't know.

I'm just a non-threatening, uncomfortable man. Who loves? Boy, actually. Sorry. No, you cannot call yourself a boy anymore because then it makes me seem creepy. I'm okay with that. Oh, thanks. So while in Beaufort, Lydia learned how to cook and clean.

She helped raise the McKee's children. She slept in cramped slave quarters behind the house. It was certainly better than field work at the plantation, but either way, Lydia was still enslaved. She worked in that house for most of her life. Each day felt pretty routine. But in 1834, when Lydia was 38 years old, things changed. Her enslaver, John McKee died. And he left all of his property to his...

only surviving son, 23-year-old Henry McKee. So now Lydia was enslaved by the man she helped raise as a child. Oh my God. It was weird. Why have I never thought of that? I bet that was so many people's reality, though. That's so weird. And five years later, it got even weirder. Lydia was pregnant. Oh, okay. And in the slave quarters behind the McKee House, she gave birth, to a baby boy who she named Robert. It's unclear who the father was. Some historians believe that it was probably Henry McKee. Yeah.

One big clue was that Henry McKee really took a liking to young Robert. He accompanied Henry McKee on trips. He cleaned his boots. It seems as though Robert was treated a little better than a typical enslaved person. Mm-hmm. And Lydia did not like that. She didn't want her son to be comfortable with his situation. She would tell Robert that no matter what you might think, your life is not your own as long as you're enslaved.

Wow. And to further hammer that point home, Lydia took Robert into town to see a slave auction, took him to the local jail where enslaved people were whipped. It was eye-opening, and Robert said he never forgot it. Changed his life. What do you think of that, Kristen? You're kind of gazing off. Thinking about that. I don't know.

I think this is, you're throwing a lot of situations at me that. That's what I do, baby. I mean, the whole thing of you raise a child from infancy, largely when you yourself are a child, and then he rapes you and you're now raising your joint child, but not, I can't even imagine how you handle it. And I can see there would be a temptation to be like, okay, let this child have some of the perks. But yeah, maybe it's dangerous to let the kid think that he's a little, that he's too special.

Or like, that he's a little invincible because of this special treatment. And I don't even know that that's what she was thinking, but that's where I'm headed with it. I think especially from Gullah culture, it was big on like never forget who you are and where you come from. And so like I think Lydia wanted to make sure Robert knew that like you come from a messed up situation and you should want better. Like don't get comfortable living like this. Yeah. You should always want better. Freedom.

You should want freedom. Yeah. When Robert was 12 years old, Henry McKee decided that Robert would be better off. working and earning money in the big city, Charleston, South Carolina. Hold on, hold on. I've revised my thoughts. Uh-oh. Because of what you said. Okay. When I'm thinking about logistically, how does somebody own people? And not just people, but like 95 people. Like, how do you even make that work as a system? Yeah, you have to have a hierarchy within the enslaved people.

Yeah, of course. And so it's natural. that the people hire up in the hierarchy. Sure, you get a bit of a better life, but yeah, the risk would be becoming complacent or comfortable or doing that thing. And like we see this in economics in all aspects of life where all of a sudden you feel like, well, the people I have a lot in common with

are these people with all the money? It's not the people out in the field. And yeah, Robert is probably the most at risk to fall into that logic because he's inside the house and on top of that he's getting this added special layer of treatment. Right. So he could be the union leader who then gets turned into a corporate guy because the corporation gives him a managerial position and, you know, a seabring or something.

A sebring? You know, like you throw a couple perks at somebody and all of a sudden they're like, oh, yeah. Never mind. That's not going to happen to Robert. Clearly. Yeah. So anyway, when Robert was 12, Henry was like, hey, I think you'd make a lot of money if you went to Charleston, South Carolina. Charleston was a bustling port city.

It was filled with super rich aristocrats. There's beautiful architecture lined along the crushed oyster shell streets. But mixed in with that were bad things like slave auction houses. And when I was researching this, I thought about. those house tours we went on. Absolutely gorgeous homes, beautiful detailed trim work, beautiful architecture, and then you go out back and you just see just sad, small slave quarters. And the juxtaposition is just, it's, it hits you.

Well, and it makes sense. It's, oh, that's how it all worked. Yeah. Charleston was the place to get enslaved people. It was like the epicenter of slavery. Before the slave trade became illegal in 1808, about 40% of enslaved people in the United States came through Charleston. Wow. And although importing enslaved people was now illegal, you could still buy people already in the United States.

And Charleston was the place to do that. Inslave people made up a big portion of the Charleston population. During this time, there were 43,000 residents in Charleston. 20,000 of them were enslaved. And so Robert was now one of those enslaved people living in Charleston. He lived in the slave quarters of Henry McKee's sister-in-law, and he was pretty much left to fend for himself and find work. And so the deal was some enslaved people were allowed to live in work in Charleston

and then just give their paycheck to their enslaver. Oh, how nice. Inslave people were required to wear metal badges with identification numbers. To help law enforcement differentiate between enslaved people and free blacks that were living in Charleston. There was also a curfew. Inslave people had to be home by 10 p.m. or face punishment. Robert set up with Henry McKee was kind of interesting. He was free to take any job he could get and work as many jobs as he wanted,

as long as he paid Henry McKee $15 a month. Adjusted for inflation? About $600. Wow. And as an enslaved person, Robert's not going to be making a lot of money. Right. So his first job, he was a waiter at the Planter Hotel, which was considered one of the largest and most luxurious hotels in Charleston.

Kristen, you worked as a waitress for a little bit, didn't you? I did. I was terrible. You only worked for like a summer, though, right? Well, yeah, I mean, I was not cut out for it. I was a TGI Friday's waitress. I have a bad memory, so that is not great for anyone in a server's role. And also, I think I checked on my tables too often if I'm going to go back and critique myself. Was the ADD kicking in?

You're like, hey, I need anything? It was in full swing. We're fine. We're fine. Please leave us alone. My God, leave us alone. Do you have any funny stories from your time as a waitress? Oh, my God.

I don't know that they're funny. One time I dropped a ramekin of ranch dressing onto a man's lap. He was not pleased. I don't blame him a bit. Let's see. Oh, God, Fridays was one of those places where people would say, oh, it's my birthday. And then you'd have to give them the free dessert. And do the little song and dance.

And the thing was, like, you always had to get other servers to join you to, like, do the celebration. And, of course, no one wanted to join. So then, you know, people would yell at each other in the back. And then management got mad at us because we were yelling too much at each other. And, like, the customers were hearing how mad we were. Oh, God. What's going on back there? That happens in kitchen nightmares a lot.

Staff arguing in the back in Gordon Ram's like, what's going on about that? I remember, what was it? We were supposed to speak in code about it. Birthday. Oh, it was a BTO. I got a BTO because you couldn't be. I think we'd been yelling too much about these FN birthdays, clearly not pleased that someone was celebrating their birthday at TGI Fridays.

Yeah. And so the solution for management was, number one, to tell people to stop yelling, but also to stop. to stop saying the word birthday entirely and instead say, I've got a BTO. Who can join me for a BTO? And, you know, that would a BTO stand for? Birthday time out. Oh.

I was thinking big titty to rang a tang. Wow. We got a BTO in the booth. I do like, flinging shit at everybody. I do like the idea of yelling that. Yeah. Interesting stories, Kristen. Thank you.

Well, don't worry. Being a waiter wasn't for Robert either. He didn't like it. So his next job, he was a lamp lighter. Okay. You want to talk about an old-timey job? No kidding. So in the morning, a lamplighter would go around the city and clean all the street lamps.

And then in the evening, they'd go back and light all the lamps. And they did that day in, day out. And when I googled lamplighter, guess what one of the top questions was? What? Why do lamplighters not exist anymore? Okay, well, is somebody stupid? That's what I said. I was like, uh, electricity.

Anyway, the lamp lighting business wasn't for the faint of heart. Well, no, your hours would be terrible, right? Oh, yeah, and you got to wear stilts. Really? Well, those high up lamps, yeah. Okay. Can't be afraid of heights. All right.

Eventually, Robert found himself working the docks of Charleston, one of the busiest places to work in the city. He was filled with enslaved blacks, free, blacks, Irish immigrants, real hodgepodge. Robert started off small. He was unloading cargo from ships. That's cute because that's his last name. Ah. So he started off unloading cargo from ships, but he worked his way up to driving horses,

operating the rigging loft, making rope, and then sailing. Oh. Yeah. Now the pay wasn't great. He made $16 a month. Oh, and he's got to get. give 15 to his... So 15 went to Henry McKee and he got to keep one dollar for himself. Wow. But Robert really enjoyed the work. He was good at it. And those skills would eventually

pay off in tremendous ways. Hmm. Spoiler alert. At some point during this time, Robert took on a last name. Smalls. Robert Smalls. Robert later said he chose the name himself. That's cool. It's unclear if there is any significance behind that name. Oftentimes, enslaved people would adopt the surname of their enslaver. But according to Robert, enslaved people would also just give themselves a secret surname. That's the significance is the fact that he came up with it himself. Yeah. You're probably right.

I'm definitely right. Wow. Well, no, I mean, he had the option of taking his enslaved surname. Sure. He could have said, my name is now Robert McKee. Sure. He could have also taken his mother's last name, Polite. Taken.

Token. Token. That was a terrible sequel to taken. Token. I think it was pronounced Tukin. Like two, the number two. Tukin. And then the third one, Taked.

Yeah. They taped it all. You know, I'm not worried about these sex traffickers because their grammar is so bad. I was going to say, Lee Nason. I feel like I can track them down real easily. On the phone. Yeah. I have a set of skills that I'm gooder at than you.

You know, I'm just imagining. My particular set of skills. skills does not include basic grammar hooked on phonics, none of that shit. I can hear her to the terrorists being like, what is he talking about? What is he saying? Doesn't he know we just took in his daughter? We've just took in your daughter. Not again.

But you were saying he could have taken his mom. Oh, yeah. Let's get back. I forgot. Yeah, he could have taken his mom's last name of polite. But he did not. Where did she get that last name? I don't know.

Okay. A lot of the. Historical records of enslaved people are missing or don't exist at all. Yeah. When Robert Smalls turned 17, he was ready to add some more people to the Smalls family. He fell in love, Kristen. Her name was Hannah Jones. She worked as a hotel maid.

But Kristen, you're not going to like this. Age gap, what do we got? Age gap, love. Okay, how old is he? Robert is 17 years old. My God, how old is she? Hannah is 34. Holy Moses.

She also had two daughters. Adjusted for inflation, Hannah is 112. Now, are you going to give them a pass because of the whole slavery thing, or are you going to criticize their relationship? I mean, that's a very big age gap. It's double his age. Literally. It's literally double as age. I mean, I don't love it if that's what you're asking me.

Kristen disapproves of an enslaved couple. Okay. Direct quote from an old-timey podcast. Wow. Anyway, it's okay, Kristen. They were in love. You're looking, what? I don't know.

I don't know. I feel weird. Thanks for asking. Couldn't she have took in another man? She wanted Robert, and Robert wanted her. Okay. They wanted to get married. Unfortunately, that was not easy for enslaved people in South Carolina because it was fucking illegal.

Now, racists argued that enslaved people weren't actually people. They were property, and property can't get married. They said, that better I have my carriage, marry my dining room table. Okay. Despite these laws, enslavers would often grant permission for enslaved people to marry. How kind. It was an unofficial thing. Of course, enslavers didn't do this out of love or care or kindness.

Because they figured, hey, if enslaved people were married, they'd be less likely to run away. Plus, it boosted morale. Well, and then they have babies, and you have more property. Good point, Kristen. So Robert and Hannah got permission, and they were married on Christmas Eve in 1856. The newlyweds settled down and continued. continued working in Charleston. Two years later, in 1858, they had a daughter, who they named Elizabeth Lydia, after Robert's mother.

As Robert Small's family grew, keeping his family together became his top priority, because he knew from experience that at any time, and for any reason, his enslaver, Henry McKee, could sell him off. Right. Or that Hannah's enslaver could sell her and the children. So Robert bravely asked Hannah's enslaver if he could purchase her and their children. And I say that's brave because not so fun fact. New sound bite here. Oh, boy. Oh, no, my brains.

That's a not so fun fact. Okay. In South Carolina, enslaved people could not buy their freedom. only the South Carolina legislature could grant enslaved people freedom. Wow. So basically, what he was asking of Hannah's enslaver was illegal, but he did it anyway. But, you know, just like those marriage laws, enslaver still made deals. Of course.

For people to buy their freedom. I'm not really sure how Robert worked around the law, but Hannah's enslaved, who was a man named Samuel King. he agreed to sell Hannah and their children. The price, $800. Adjusted for inflation, $30,000. Wow. But Robert didn't have that kind of money. No, $800 is very expensive when you're making a dollar a month. Right. So yeah, the reality was it was next to impossible for Robert to buy Hannah and the children's freedom. But that doesn't mean they didn't try. Robert became a reseller buying and selling items down on the docks.

Hannah did laundry for sailors to earn extra money. But they had a long, long, long way to go. Yeah. And while they're doing all that extra work, their family could be split up at any moment. There's also the chance that, like, if it's not legal, couldn't the guy just take their money and then be like, ha ha, just kidding. Possibly. Again, it's not really clear how they made those deals back then because it was illegal to buy your freedom in South Carolina, but... I'm sure they made those deals all the time. It's just, it's a business transaction.

Yeah. Sadly. Meanwhile, in April of 1860, Charleston was popping like a bubble rat dolphin, Kristen. A saying we all know in love. Mm-hmm. That's because the National Democratic Convention was happening in the city. Hmm. It was time to nominate a president. candidate that would take on those damn abolitionists and protect the institutional slavery. But uh-oh, Democrats were split on the hot issue at the time. The expansion of slavery into new territories and states.

You know, if you go back and you listen to our very first series on John Brown, that was a big topic. Kind of how John Brown went apeshit on pro-slavery people in Kansas. Do you remember? Oh, I remember. So, northern Democrats were like, we should really let the people of the new territories decide if they want slavery or not. And then Southern Democrats were like, they wanted more slavery. More, more, more, more. And eventually the argument got so contested that Southern Democrats walked out of the convention.

And that meant they didn't have enough votes to actually nominate a presidential candidate. And so the party split, and they held separate nomination conventions. The Northern Democrats nominated Senator Stephen Douglas of Illinois, who's the asshole that came up with popular sovereignty in the territories and states. He's also the guy that hit on Lavinia Orrin Bump from our General Tom Thumb series. That's right. We don't like him. We do not like Senator Stephen Douglas. What's popular sovereignty again? I'm sorry to sound like a dumb job.

Popular sovereignty was the idea that the people in the new territories would vote on if they wanted slavery or not. And it led to a lot of problems. Well, yeah, because you know what it is? It's, oh, I don't want to have to actually take a stand on this because then people will get mad at me. So I'm just going to pass the buck. I mean, at the time he was like, I'm doing this. the most democratic thing imaginable. I'll let the people decide.

But the critics were like, hey, I think this is going to cause a lot of, like, violence and some, like, corruption. And maybe we shouldn't do this. And, you know, they already had a deal of where slavery would go and where it wouldn't go. They already had a deal. But the Southerners made such a fucking stink about it that Senator Stephen Douglas was like, okay, we'll come up with popular sovereignty. So the Northern Democrats nominated Senator Stephen Douglas, the Southern Democrats nominated John Breckenridge. Oh. He was the sitting vice president.

And he was a big fan of slavery. Okay. He was James Buchanan's vice president. One of the worst presidents of all time, that drunk cockatoo looking jerk. Norm, I want your worst president series so bad. It's in the works. Okay. So those two nominees would be going up against the Republican candidate.

Abraham Lincoln, one of the best presidents we've ever had. Abraham Lincoln was anti-slavery, and he completely opposed the expansion of slavery. But wait a minute. A surprise contender appears. There was a fourth nominee from the Fence Sitting Party. I mean, the Constitutional Union Party, Kristen. There are problems on both sides, Norm, and that makes me enlightened. Would you like to hear their position?

Yeah, oh my God. They were like, um, let's not talk about slavery ever. And we're all patriots and we love the Constitution. They nominated John Bell. He was an enslaver and former senator from Tennessee. Okay. Yeah. Well, Kristen, you probably know what happened next.

Abraham Lincoln won the presidential election with 180 electoral votes and just 40% of the popular vote. Oh, okay. I always think of this election. Why? Well, I hear a lot of chatter about like, especially on the left, you hear a lot of chatter about like, we need to form a new progressive party, you know? Uh-huh. And I'm always like, oh, that never works out. It's always better to just like push your party in a certain direction because you could run into an issue like this where you are splitting the votes.

Yeah, yeah. I hate the two-party system as much as anybody. I think it sucks. Right. But we kind of have to work with what we got right now until like some major changes happen. Ranked choice voting would be awesome. Just let Trump know. Yeah, I'll write him a letter.

Okay, great. Dear President Trump. Anyway, Lincoln won the election, Kristen. And when white folks in South Carolina heard that Abraham Lincoln was going to be their next president, they were like. And they were like, ah, he wants to get rid of our slaves. We have to do something. But yeah, white folks in the South did not like Abraham Lincoln. No one voted.

He didn't win a single Southern state in the election. And so, yeah, they were afraid, oh, he's going to abolish slavery. He's going to take away all the slaves. So six weeks after the presidential election, Charleston, South Carolina, hosted a secession convention. They were going to vote to leave the union. And on December 20th, 1860, it passed unanimously. Wow. Yep.

South Carolina became the first state to secede. I did not know that. Really? I'm sure I was told it at one point, and it went right out my ear. Rear end? Possibly. I had to make room for reality TV facts. Ah, yes.

Yes. You know quite a bit about Survivor and Brigg Brother, but not too much about the American Civil War. I'm a very smart lady. Thank you. South Carolina seceding caused some serious issues because the United States Army had a bunch of forts along the coast of Charleston. And the commanders were a little concerned about like a hostile takeover. And so to better defend themselves, commanders concentrated all their forces to fort something. which was on a little island off the coast of Charleston.

It was much better suited for a defense against any potential attacks. But South Carolinians demanded that the army leave, and they shouted, Get out right now. They argued that the forts now belong to the Confederacy, because South Carolina wasn't a U.S. state anymore. Oh, that's mine now. Fuck off. Lincoln refused to budge, and he resupplied.

Fort Sumter, which seriously pissed off the Confederates, and yet a long standoff. It lasted for months. And meanwhile, more and more states seceded and joined the Confederacy. And finally, on April 12, 1861, the Confederates had had had enough, and they fired shots on Fort Sumter. Charleston residents celebrated and enjoyed the show from their rooftops as shells rained down on the fort. The next day, U.S. troops surrendered Fort Sumter and left. The Civil War had officially begun. You got to wonder what was going through Robert Small's head at that time. Yeah.

Having Abraham Lincoln as president probably provided some hope, but that disappeared when South Carolina seceded. Robert and Hannah had also welcomed another child into the family, Robert Smalls Jr., which meant the price for Hannah and the kids just went up. Oh, God. The U.S. Army had abandoned the area. So any hopes of perhaps being rescued was gone. But there was one glimmer of hope. Abraham Lincoln had called for a blockade of the Confederacy, the Anaconda Plan. And almost immediately, the United States Navy was blocking the Charleston Harbor.

Spoiler alert, it didn't work all that well. But still, it required a lot of work for the Confederacy to send out and receive supplies. The Confederates also fortified their coastal defenses in anticipation of a possible union attack, and they needed every boat they could get their hands on to do the work. And that led to Robert Smalls getting a new job. In June of 1861, two months after the war began, Robert became a crew member of a ship called The Planter. The Planter was a 147-foot-long, 30-foot-wide steamship, and it was owned by a fella named John Ferguson. It was originally built to transport cotton.

But now the Confederacy was like, hey, we need that for the military. So they leased the boat from John Ferguson. Guess how much they fucking paid this dude to lease his stupid boat? How much? $125 per day. Lord Almighty. Adjusted for inflation, John Ferguson made $4,500 a day leasing his boat to the Confederacy. Holy crap.

Now, that may seem like a ton of money. It is. But it was Confederate money. Oh. Which is as useless as a woodpecker with rubber lips. Oh, I will give you $1,200-doules. Yeah, Confederate money was worth nothing. Okay.

That's so funny. On board the planter, Robert Smalls, and the rest of the crew, transported supplies, equipment, and soldiers around the waters of Charleston. They surveyed sandbars. They laid mines around the harbor. And Robert Smalls proved himself a very capable member of the crew. He worked hard. He was skilled. He knew the waterways like the back of his hand.

And the white officers of the planter promoted Robert to wheelman. So he was basically steering the ship now. I wondered if that's what that meant. The wheelman. Meanwhile, the United States Navy was making moves. Because in order to enforce a blockade, you have to constantly resupply all the ship. ships, and in order to do that, you really need to capture a port. And their target? Port Royal, South Carolina, one of the largest ports in the Confederacy. And it was located right next to

Beaufort. Oh. Where Robert Smalls was born and where his mother Lydia currently lived. The United States Navy was not fucking around, Kristen. They attacked with 75 ships, 157 cannon, and 12,000 men. Whoa. Port Royal fell in four hours. I bet it did. I'm surprised it lasted that long. It was the first major Union naval victory of the Civil War. And after the Union took control of Port Royal, the white residents of Beaufort were like... Yeah, I mean, that would be scary.

And they started skedaddling. They ran away. Am I going to have to do actual work? Oh my God. No. They abandoned their homes, their businesses. their plantations, they burned all the crops. And all that was left in Buford was enslaved people. Wow. Inslavers did try to scare them into leaving.

They're like, oh, if the Union Army catches you, they're going to sell you off to a sugar plantation in Cuba. It won't be so sweet. Oh, my God. But many enslaved people did not believe that, and they stayed behind. Two days after Port Royal fell... Wait, so were people in a scenario where it's like, okay, my enslaver has fled the scene, I'm going to go sleep in their bed tonight? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

That would be wild. When the Army came into Beaufort, they found enslaved people hanging out in the plantations, ransacking businesses. Oh, sure, sure. They took over to the town. Yeah. Because everyone was gone. Oh, my God. They were free now, basically.

Yeah. This is an interesting. situation, Kristen. No kidding. Well, because now it's like it's a, it's a whole new society and a whole new society with no rules established yet. Right. And the Union Army was like, what the fuck do we do? I mean, nothing, right? Well, hang on. Okay. Well, hang on. Okay. So yeah, two days after Port Royal fell, Union troops entered Beaufort, and they were surprised to find that most of the white residents were gone, including Robert and Lydia's enslaver, Henry McKee. He fucking ran away. I bet he did, little bitch. All that was left were,

10,000 enslaved people, and one of them was Robert Small's mother, Lydia. Union commanders weren't really sure what to do. This was kind of a brand new situation. At the time, the current policy of the United States Army was that if they came across enslaved people during the war, they were taken in as contraband. Huh. And the Confederacy was outraged at that. They said, hey, that is our property. You can't just take it away from us. But the union replaced, Um, hello, are you fucking stupid? So the United States position was that because enslaved people were considered property, they were basically categorized as a tool of warfare. And if they gave enslaved people back to the enslavers, they could be used to wage war against the United States.

So the U.S. Army was like, hell no, you're not getting enslaved people back. This was the precursor to the eventual emancipation problem. which would just outright free enslaved people in the southern states. Yeah. But the situation in Beaufort was different. This wasn't a matter of acquiring contraband. This was like a humanitarian crisis going on. 10,000 newly freed people.

Union commanders felt like they didn't have the resources to handle this. Yeah. And so, unfortunately, they issued a proclamation that was like, Hi, enslavers, can you come back to Beaufort, please? We're not going to hurt you. Everything's fine. We just need you to deal with this. Come back to your property.

But no one came back. Well, right. And what's there to deal with? Well, the Union Army felt like they couldn't handle taking care of 10,000 people. But what about just letting 10,000 people take care of themselves? I mean, was that even an option that they thought about? I think it was a little more difficult than that. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it is, but...

Well, so no one came back. Right. And so Union commanders declared martial law, and they set up camps. The formerly enslaved people of Beaufort were now essentially free. Robert Smallest was thrilled when he heard this news, because he knew that his mom was now safe behind union lines. And he thought, God, any day now, that... army is going to be heading towards Charleston to free us. The city of Charleston thought the same thing. The local militia was on high alert. They anticipated a union attack at any moment. But the winter of 1861 passed and

nothing. Then the spring of 1862. Still nothing. The reality was the union didn't have enough resources to invade Charleston. Well, Robert Smalls was done waiting for help. He was now going to help himself. If he and his family were ever going to be free, it was on him to make it happen. Oh, yeah. So he came up with a plan. His idea, commandeer the ship he worked on, the planter, and sneak it out of Charleston to the Union blockade ships, securing his freedom. That is incredible. It's going to be a tough task, Kristen. Yeah, I, this is, it's a ridiculous task.

Mm-hmm. And not in a bad way, it's just, honestly, I think escaping from prison seems so much easier than this. I'm going to take a whole fucking ship, as opposed to part of a ship. You know what I mean? I'm stealing the back half of this ship. That seems even harder. It's sinking. No, I'm excited.

Are you going to tell us in this episode how he does it? Because I'm like, is this one of those things where you just go in with confidence and hope nobody questions you? Hmm. We've been recording for an hour and 22 minutes. Should I save it for the next episode? Oh, damn. No, I'll tell you. Okay.

It's going to be a tough task, Kristen. But Robert Smalls had an answer for every possible problem. Okay. The first problem. The planter had three white officers serving on it. How could Robert Smalls take the ship without them knowing? This problem was extra tricky because Confederate military orders required a white officer to be on the ship at all times, day and night, in case of an emergency. Luckily for Robert Smalls, these white officers rarely followed that order.

Very often, they all left the ship at night. to go be with their families or to go get drunk. Hell yeah. Who wants to work? Not those guys. Well, and the other thing is Robert Smalls gained their trust. Absolutely. And so all Robert had to do was wait for one of those nights when they went off so he could take the boat.

The second problem. Getting to the Union blockade line was not going to be easy. It was about a 10-mile journey across the water from Charleston to the blockade line. It's not exactly a quick trip. You're not getting in a jet ski like Hitch going to Alice Island, okay? We all wish this was the movie Hitch, but it's just not. Kevin James is nowhere to be found. Making the pizza.

Put into oven. Oh my God, Norm's favorite movie. It's not my favorite, but I do enjoy that movie, okay. Here's another problem. The planter was also very loud, made a lot of smoke. It's not like it's going to escape Charles. and undetected, and along the way to the blockade line, the planter would have to pass multiple Confederate forts and guardships. There's multiple hurdles to clear here. Robert Smalls also had to

give the illusion that the planter was on a routine mission. Luckily, Robert Smalls knew the whistle signals to get past checkpoints and guards. I've got a question. Yes, you there in the front? How light-skinned is he? Not super. Just looking at pictures. All right, never mind. It's funny you mention that. There was the problem of Robert's skin color. If the Confederates saw a ship being piloted without any white officers, they would fire on it immediately. Robert Smalls wasn't really sure what to do about that issue.

But then one day, he had a light bulb moment. A member of the crew jokingly put the captain's big straw hat on Robert's head. Uh-huh. And he was like, hey, if I just wear this big stupid hat. Yes. The Confederate guards would probably think I'm the captain. Well, yeah, how close are they really getting? Well, and here's the other thing.

Robert was like, it'd be really hard for them to tell if I'm black because we'd be leaving in the dark. Right. And the ship makes a ton of smoke. It's going to obscure me enough to where they can't really see. Yes. But they will see the big, dumb hat. And the captain always wore that big dumb hat. Well, and the idea that an enslaved man is doing this, like it is, it's one of those things.

It's so bold. It is so out there that it would kind of be ridiculous to assume that that was what was happening. Oh, yeah. And we'll get into that in the next episode. Okay. Yeah. The final problem was that Robert had to convince the rest of the crew to join him. There were six other enslaved people.

working on the ship. And he needed them to operate the planter. They had to agree to the plan and be sworn to secrecy. He also had to get his family on board with the plan. It was a very risky operation. So Robert Smalls first told the plan to his wife, Hannah. Hannah was hesitant. Yeah. Her first question was, what happens if you get caught? Robert Smalls firmly replied, I'll be shot. Hannah thought some more and finally said, It is a risk, but you and I and our little ones must be free. I will go for where you die, I will die. So that first hurdle is cleared. Robert got his family on board. Then it was time to ask his fellow crew members of the planter.

This is the tough one. It's tough because not only you're asking all of them, you're getting them all on board, which would be tough enough. and then getting them to stay completely quiet about it. Yeah. If word of this gets out, they're all done. Done. Yeah.

So Robert Smalls gave them the pitch, and he encouraged them, bring your families too. Yeah. Sure, it was risky, but this would guarantee freedom for them. But he was like, you have to keep it a secret. If word of this plan leaks out at all, we're all done for. Yeah, that jumpy little militia is just itching to kill people. So they would have been thrilled. So Kristen, he asked six people on the ship to join him.

What did they decide? Does he need all six of them? Yes, to operate the ship. Well, we already know that the ship went to that other ship, so I guess they all said yes. Although I can't imagine that they all said yes initially. They all said yes. everyone agreed to take part in the plan. Okay, does that shock you the way it shocks me?

I guess not. I think people like, in hindsight, we're all like, well, yeah, why not do the brave thing? Of course. Well, yeah, get the hell out of Nazi Germany right on time. Yeah, you got to. But, like, you don't, I mean, when you're actually in the moment and you're choosing between, okay, the life I know versus something I can't even conceive. It's scary, but I also think maybe they've been working with Robert Smalls for a while now,

and they're like, damn, I trust this guy. This guy is smart. This guy knows his shit. If he thinks this will work, I think it'll work, and I can get me and my family freedom. Okay, you know what, you're right. I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, it's the combination of the life I know. Really sucks ass. And also, yeah, Robert Smalls is this, I assume really intelligent, really likable leader.

Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm on board. It's not like some random dude comes up to you and it's like, hey, why don't she get in this boat with me? Well, I was starting to get like the John Brown vibes of like, yeah, we'll just tell them, hey, you're fine now. Go ahead and here. Have a knife on a stick. And it's like, oh. That was John Brown's play. Yeah. You're free. Brothers here. Take a knife on a stick and join me. me. And they'd be like, who the fuck are you? Yeah, hello. We just met you. Your hair is nuts. Very sexy, though.

I mean, I agree. John Brown had a good look to him. He did. Okay, so everyone agreed to take part in the plan. However, the crew did decide that they were not going to tell their families about it until the plan was already in action. Yeah, no, that's smart. Because they wanted to make sure no one blabbed. Right. It was on. In the following days, everyone worked as normal. kept quiet and it was now up to Robert Smalls to decide when it was time to execute the plan.

But one man of the crew was making everyone a little nervous. It was a deckhand named David Jones. I almost wrote a Davey Jones joke there. I almost made one, but I stopped myself. It was too tempting. Okay. David Jones was a chatty Kathy, Kristen. Oh, no.

These are, oh, no. Yeah, especially. Especially when he drank his favorite drink, whiskey, which he did a lot. Mm-hmm. And the rest of the crew went to Robert Smalls and were like, we got to do something about David Jones. So one night they took David Jones aside. Did they kill him? And they said, shut the hell up, bitch.

What is that from? It's Dr. Phil. I think he was like reading a transcript or something, but. Shut the hell up, bitch. I mean, sometimes it's good advice. They threatened to kill David Jones if he didn't shut the hell up. Yeah. Well, that scared him straight.

Crisis averted. More days passed. The planter continued its normal routine. Robert Smalls waited for the right moment. And on May 12th, 1862, two key events led to a decision. That day, the planter had filed. finally wrapped up a weeks-long project. They had been moving Confederate guns between forts in the harbor.

And on the deck of the planter, there were four huge cannons ready to be delivered to Fort Sumter the next day. So Robert Smalls was like, wow. Imagine if we not only secured our freedom, but I also delivered weapons to the United States Navy. And then some other news solidified his decision. word was going around that the next day, Charleston would be placed under martial law. So that meant that the Confederate Army would be in control of the city. And so security would be highly elevated. And that would make their escape way harder. Yep. So Robert Smalls decided that tonight was the night. He quietly told the rest of the crew, game on. That evening, as the

sun set on Charleston, Robert Smalls and the crew worked as normal on the planter with the three white officers. They were waiting for them to leave for the night. But as they were getting ready to take off, a wrench was thrown into the whole plan. One of the officers, a man named Samuel Hancock, was like, you know, I think I'm going to spend the night on the planter tonight. Oh, no. No.

God, please no. No. So the crew was like, fuck, what are we going to do? Yeah. Robert Smalls was like, fuck it, we'll just kill him. Okay. Well, luckily, it never came to that. For whatever reason, Samuel Hancock changed his mind and he left.

Shoo! Another crisis averted. No kidding. So, the first hurdles cleared. Robert Smalls and the crew are now alone on the planter. But the sense that this was actually going to happen scared a few of the crew members. And two of them decided they wanted out. Yeah.

One of them was the blabbermouth, David Jones. Oh, God. Well, you can't let him go. They promised they wouldn't say a word. And they left. No one stopped them. But they decided they were going to still do the mission. So next, there was time for everyone to go get their families.

So the men went home and they brought their families onto the planter for a little get-together. This was a totally normal thing that the white officer. allowed from time to time. It wouldn't have seemed out of the ordinary. And soon Robert's wife Hannah arrived with their two young children, Elizabeth Lydia and Robert Jr. Hannah's older child, Charlotte, from a previous relationship, she decided not to go. She was actually married with a child and said, that's way too risky. Yep.

Darkness fell on Charleston. A fog rolled into the harbor. The only light source was from the moon. partially hidden by the clouds. I'm a poet, Kristen. Yeah. The families ate. They chatted.

They had a good time. But 10 p.m. was approaching curfew time. So the women and children prepared to leave. But right as they were leaving, the men blocked them and were like, not so fast. Then Robert Smalls told everyone what was about to happen. A fear swept over the boat. One crew member said they cross. and prayed and entreated.

If Smalls hadn't had the grit of a bulldog, he would have let go. Yeah. The families were afraid, and for good reason, they knew that if they got caught, they would either be killed or severely punished. It took the crew an hour to calm everybody down and agree to go along with the plan. But they did add one condition to this plan. They said, if we are caught, we will all collect. collectively jump off the boat and drown together.

That's really smart. Mm-hmm. Because, yeah, you have to think, if they get caught, they're not just getting killed. They're going to be killed in a way that sets an example. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And that's why this is so terrifying.

Yeah. With curfew, fast approaching, Robert Smalls told the families they had to leave. They couldn't stay on the planter or it would arouse suspicion. So the crew pretended to escort all the family's home. But in reality, they were sneaking them to an area called the North Atlantic Wharf. The plan was for them to hide in another boat until the planter could sail by and pick them up on its way out of Charleston. God, that's really smart. By the way, Kristen, the North Atlantic Wharf, that's the area where we stayed when we visited Charleston.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. I hate that we didn't know this story. I know. I don't remember seeing any plaques on our little harbor walks, but, you know, there are definitely plaques of Robert Smalls and Charleston. So all that was left to do now was wait. Robert Smalls had to time the escape perfectly. Because if they passed Fort Sumter in the dark, the Confederate guards would be like, why is that boat out? in the middle of the night. Right. So he had to time it to where they would pass for it sumter when like the sun was coming up, you know. Finally, at 3 a.m. on May 13, 1862, it was time. Robert Smalls entered the pilot house. He put on the captain's big stupid straw hat and his jacket.

And then the crew fired up the engines. They raised two flags, a Confederate flag and the South Carolina State flag. Robert Small sent out a whistle signal. as the planter did every day as it departed, and with that, the ship took off. Confederate guards watched as the ship left. But nothing seemed out of the ordinary. The planter's first stop was the North Atlantic Wharf to pick up the families. This would have been very suspicious to Confederate guards,

but luckily in the dark no one noticed the boat pulling up at all. All the crew members' families were picked up, and then the planter took off again. Robert Smalls maintained a slow, steady pace to not arouse any suspicion. And they soon approached their first obstacle, Fort Johnson. Robert Smalls sent out that whistle signal to pass by. Everyone waited and watched nervously as they passed by, but they didn't hear a peep. So far so good. Soon they encountered a Confederate guardboat that was patrolling the harbor.

But the guardboat had seen the plan. enter so many times that it just ignored it as it sailed by. Sure. Next, they passed a Confederate gunboat. It got close. Robert Small stood in the pilot house, big stupid straw hat on his head, captain's jacket on, arms folded. The morning darkness and smoke helped conceal his identity.

And he saluted the boat with a friendly whistle. Passed on by. The gunboat did nothing. A few minutes later, they encountered. another ship. It also got close. Robert Smalls shouted out a greeting, good morning, and sailed on by. Wow. The disguise was working. As they exited the main harbor, Robert Smalls decided to pick up the pace. He asked for more speed. Crew members hurried down to the engine and toss more wood into the furnace. They were speeding towards their biggest obstacle yet, Fort Sumter,

and the main shipping channel. Fort Sumter protected it. a very narrow shipping channel that allowed Confederate raiders to bring in supplies to the city. The U.S. Navy called it a rat hole. Hell. Any ship that passed through this channel had to go directly under the cannons of Fort Sumter. And if a guard ordered the ships to halt, they would have to do it or risk getting blasted by cannons. So this was a harrowing moment. Crew members and their families began silently praying.

Robert Smalls stayed calm at around 415. a.m. as the sun was beginning to rise, the planter approached Fort Sumter. Guards in the fort flashed a challenge signal. What's that? Just like, identify yourself. Who are you? Robert replied with the whistle signal to pass. The Confederate guards signal back, all good. And then one guard yelled down, blow the damn Yankees to hell, or bring one of them in. And Robert Smalls yelled back, eye I. Oh, God. And with that, the planter carried on.

Meanwhile, back in Charleston, the planter's white captain, Captain C.J. Relier, woke up and headed to the harbor to start the day's work. He was like, ooh, big day. Got to bring those cannons to Fort Sumter. But when he arrived at the harbor, he was like, where's my boat? So he started asking around, hey, you see my boat? Where'd my boat go? What would you do for a video of this moment? I would do... Anything.

Yeah, anything. Anything. America's funniest home videos. Talk about the shock of a lifetime. America. Oh, this is you. As he's looking for the boat, a kid throws a football and it hits him at the dick. Oh.

Bob Saggett. It wasn't that hilarious, folks? So yeah, he's asking around, where the fuck's my boat? Anyone see my boat? And the other people on the harbor are like, I don't know. Well, Kristen, I'll tell you where the boat was. It was going full steam ahead towards the Union blockade line. For the next half hour, Robert Smalls expected Confederate guards to realize what just happened and start firing on them.

Yep, got to get out. But it was nothing but silence. Meanwhile, guards at Fort Sumter noticed The planter was sailing away from the Confederate lines It was heading towards the Union lines And they were like What's going on here? So they signaled to nearby troops on Morris Island

They were like, hey, look at that boat, you got a fire on it Look at the boat! Something's wrong! But by the time the Morris Island troops got the message it was too late. The planter was out of gun range. Well, and what? Don't you think it would also be?

And here I am making shit up. But again, this is so unexpected. This is so out of the scope of what people think might be happening. Wouldn't there also be, even if they get the signal in time, like, wait, you want us to fire on that? Well, clearly the guy's just confused. Give a minute. Give him a minute. He'll spin it around real quick.

Yeah, and what you'll see in the next episode that a lot of southern newspapers were like, it is not possible that a negro could pull off something like this. Clearly the white officers helped them with this. Oh, I love it. The copium. As the planter sailed out of gun range, everyone on board rejoiced. They wept, they sang, they prayed. It was a miracle.

They had pulled it off. They were free. But Robert Smalls and the others weren't out of the woods just yet. Because there was still the risk of the union ships firing on them. Yeah. Crew members quickly took down the Confederate and South Carolina flags. Yep. And they hoisted up a white bed sheet.

And it's a good thing they did because as we learned in the introduction, sailors on the USS onward spotted that white flag right before they were about to blast. their cannons. Robert Smalls, the crew, and their families were brought safely on board the Union ships. What had just happened was simply incredible. Robert Smalls had stolen a Confederate ship with multiple cannons and military documents and smuggled 16 enslaved people to freedom, all without a single shot being fired. But Kristen, if you think that was what defined the life of Robert.

Robert Smalls, think again. How the hell was that not the defining moment? On the next episode, of an old timey podcast. Robert Smalls fights the Confederacy, battles for equality during reconstruction, and becomes an absolute fucking legend. Everyone, if you don't have the video version, Norm just saluted.

But he didn't stand up, so it's kind of a weird thing. But he's looking proud. He's looking patriotic. Mm-hmm. This is the coolest story. I tell you what. This is the perfect story. It is?

Yeah. I think there's something about timing and this is really cool. The perfect story by Norman Caruso. I woke up, had a capris son. And then, I'm sorry, I'm just describing your perfect day. Yeah, as an eight-year-old. Oh, like you'd be mad about a capri sun tomorrow morning. Okay, I want to ask the history of this.

I think we may have asked this on your old podcast, too. What? When you open a Capri Sun, I always stabbed the bottom and drink it from there. Well, that's because you were a fucking animal. That's not how it's done. Wow. I'm sorry, these are just facts. It worked.

I thought I've worked a lot better than trying to get in that little hole. Yeah, I mean, that's really threading a needle, isn't it? I always hated that. I always made a mess out of myself. It's harder than stealing. a ship and sailing to freedom. Oh, wow. Okay.

I better protect myself with that one. There we go. Yeah. Can't get mad if the... Sorry, folks. You can't get mad of me. I use the rim shot, but you can tell me... Shut the hell up, bitch.

And I would listen. That was wild. Yeah. So good. How'd you come up with this idea? Oh, I've known about Robert Smalls for a long time. Kristen. Okay.

Okay. Norm, you've had a hell of a day. Yeah. You almost had a full-on meltdown at Costco earlier. Oh, my God. When we come home, you tell this wonderful story. Yep. Your confidence.

A real difference in vibe. Everyone, let me tell you a tale that happened today. Today, I went to the Costco. Well, Norm and I went to Costco together. I went to the pharmacy. Oh, yeah. It was the sexiest date you ever been on. I was like, what do you want to do for Valentine's Day?

Take me to Costco. I'm going to look longingly at you over the samples of chicken melts. Make love to me in the food court. Right on those picnic tables. What if like, okay, in Varsity Blues, they had the whipped cream bra. What if we had a chicken melt bra? A chicken melt bra? Or just uncrustables?

Yeah. Well, how would it be held up, though? You can't just slap an uncrustable on your boob and expected to stay. You got to string it in there or something. Here's how I'd do it. I'd wait for it to melt. It would be excruciating. It would take hours.

But, you know, this is important. I'd cut it in half. And so then you've got the stick. Don't make that face. This is perfect logic. You get that sticky peanut butter and jelly. And then that would be the glue to my boobs. That's not going to work.

What do you mean? It's not going to work. You know what? We'll test it tonight after we record. We have some uncrustables. We don't have the time. They'd have to get real good and melted. We have plenty of time.

Okay. For this, for this Valentine's Day Day. Anyway, I went to the pharmacy and Norm was just going to get some stuff and go through the self-checkout solo. You want to tell them what happened? Yeah, so, like, I didn't grab a cart on the way in, and I was just, well, I'll grab a few things. And I ended up grabbing more things than I originally thought. So I was, like, bumbling around with all these items, like, whoa, like, I'm the clumsiest man on Earth. and I was like super embarrassed and cringed out because I didn't have a cart

so I like quickly scanned everything. Let me guess. You were convinced everyone in the store was staring right at you. Everyone was staring at me and laughing and pointing at me and saying, look how stupid that man looks. And then you forgot your receipt. And then so I checked out, paid. I was like, who, got that over with, boxed everything and waited for Kristen to get her medication. And then we were walking towards the exit.

And Kristen was like, do you have the receipt? And, you know, I always grabbed my receipt. But not this time. I checked all my pockets. Too frantic. I checked in every orifice and crevice of my body right there in the food court. And I didn't have it. I forgot to grab the receipt.

And I just looked at Kristen. And I was like, I don't know what to do. It was really hard. hard not to laugh, except maybe I did laugh. You did. You thought it was hilarious. Well, when you were like, I don't know what to do. I mean, it was like, dumbfounded. It was like, well, what do you think they're going to do? Take out a machine gun and mow you down because you don't have your receipt? Like, you were, you were really like, this is the end of me. I thought they were going to ban me from Costco. No, we just simply went to customer service and they printed out. Yeah, we found, we found a lady

that worked there. And she was like, yeah, I'll just print you another receipt. And she said, down, sir, are you also the man who was reaching around in your own anus earlier because that might actually get you thrown out of Costco? I was like, what? No. You said, what? No, I was looking for my receipt. You can't get mad.

I was trying to follow the rules. I mean, it felt, it did feel good, but, like, I was looking for my receipt. So anyway, the point is, we survived that, folks. Yeah, I, it's just weird. Like, I was feeling really good before going to Costco. And then when I forgot to grab the receipt, I was like. Oh, no. This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

It's the self-consciousness. It'll get us every time. Yeah, I basically thought I was at checkout with my pants down and everyone was pointing and laughing. Yeah, I need to work on that. Maybe it's just a matter of reframing it. Maybe you are at Costco with your pants down and people are pointing and watching, but they're impressed by what they see. That's impossible.

Okay. Boy, there's that confidence again. It's too much, folks. Norm, will it make you feel better if I read some reviews of our podcast? Oh, yeah. We haven't done this in a while. It's true. Okay.

I've got three, count them three reviews to read to you, my dear. Okay. Okay. Title. Am I actually smarter now? Yes! Five stars. From Carrie Sue Lou.

Carrie writes, It took this perfect combo of hysterical comedy, knowledge, Kristen and Norm, to get me hooked on history. I look forward to the new OTP episodes every week, plus seeing their chemistry and interaction on the Patreon videos is the best. Oh! As a super sweet bonus, I've answered no fewer than 10.

Seriously, 10 Jeopardy questions correctly because of OTP. Thank you, history hoes. I love that. Wow, we're answering Jeopardy questions for people now. You know, people do post in the fan group screenshots from Jeopardy. Yeah. Yeah, a few of them are like, I learned this on old-timey podcast. I love it.

Yeah. Okay, this next one. Step aside, Tavis, five stars. Who's Tavis? You're about to find out. This review comes from Ho Mama. Home Mama writes, There's a new sexiest couple in KC

and it's dot dot dot, Norston? Their small, independent podcast, an old-timey podcast is guaranteed to make you sexier, smarter, and more fun at family reunions. Seriously, my son is quite the history buff and now I have something to talk to him about.

Thanks, OTP, and thanks, Northston. Wow, we're bringing families. families together with this podcast. That was like a Travis and Taylor thing. I don't know if you understood. Yeah, I got it as you read the review. Yeah, we're definitely more popular than Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift. Yeah, who's ever heard of them?

Shumps. If we went to Arrowhead Stadium and watched a Chiefs game, the cameras would just be honest, non-sup. People would be sick of it. There's Kristen and Norm of an old-timey podcast. Do you think a bunch of like... Making out again in their suite. Can you imagine if Taylor and Travis were making out on the Jumbotron? That would be the thing that would get me hooked on football.

If we're looking for a formula. Yeah, hell yeah. If you just never knew when they were going to make out in the middle of a game. By the way, what is with people that, like, get super mad about Taylor Swift watching football or dating Travis Kelsey? What's up with that? It's gross. It's so gross to me. Are they just jealous?

Like, what's the deal? I think it's like weird misogyny. It's very strange to me. And I don't fully get it, honestly. Because I've noticed that, like, she's not the only one. I remember when, like, Jessica Simpson was dating Tony Romo. Yep, dated Tony Romo. And Cowboys fans were such assholes and were like, booing her.

This is the reason we're losing football. games because Tony Romo is distracted because he's just banging Jessica Simpson 24-7 and so he can't concentrate on football. It was ridiculous. Yeah, I'm really wondering when that's going to stop. I'm also wondering, okay, when does it get embarrassing? I was for a grown man to be just so triggered by the sight of a young woman supporting her boyfriend at his work.

Well, and not just any woman. Like one of the biggest pop stars in the world. Of course the NFL is going to show her at the game. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I... Don't be naive. I think it's so weird. I don't understand it.

I don't know why people care so much. It's clearly striking a nerve. Well, they are striking a nerve with me. Yeah! You know what? I think they should just have Taylor Cam. The whole game, just in the top right corner, just have a camera on Taylor Swift.

Sure. Watch her eat nachos and burp and pick her nose. Okay, you joke, but like I was, okay, we're in the middle of these reviews. I go to askam manager.com where people just write in with, you know, work questions. Someone wrote in and their question, honest to God, was they have a boss who picks his nose as he's talking to them. while he's talking to them and the person has tried the thing of like offering a tissue

and the guy was like oh no thanks so this person was like what do I do now I'll tell you what you do you stick your finger in his nose and you start picking it for him he might like it no I think he'd be weirded out by it I think

but it's like ooh I'll help myself start picking his nose I think in situations like that well first of all no What would you really do? It's your boss? Yeah.

That's tough. Because if it was my friend, I'd be like, what the fuck are you doing? Right. Exactly. But if it's your boss, you can't say that. You could call him a stupid ho. Which is always a great idea. Yeah.

I honestly don't know. I haven't worked in the corporate world in a long time, so I don't feel qualified to answer this question. I'm sorry. I'm out. I feel qualified. Okay. What would you do? This is the time.

for overacting and under speaking, which is a weird way of saying, don't say a lot because that can be used against you. But I would put on my biggest horrified face. Oh, you would. Yeah, I know you. Don't tell you that you would. Yeah. Yeah, you'd be like, oh. And like try to get him to be shocked.

Like, oh, no, what am I doing? What am I doing? Yeah. Embarrass him. I come from a shame-based household. You certainly do. It's a terrible thing, but also an awesome tool. And so I would use it in that moment.

The Pitts family crest. You can't judge me. I'm judging you. That's right. That's right. It's like it's a shield, really, with the judgments. I think our fans came up, like translated it into Latin one time. What you can't judge me.

I'm judging you would be. Yeah, we need to get like a very fancy crest with that on there. I think the power of shock might work. Yeah, it might. I think it might work better than me sticking my finger in his nose. Well, that would also be shocking. Yeah. And then he goes and tries to complain to HR.

And say, well, he was doing it. Yeah. Yeah. What's wrong with me joining in? And then they've got a big mess on their hands. And I would just be like, got any for me? Just stick my finger in there. I'm just trying to demonstrate that I'm a team player, okay?

Should I read the next review? Yeah, I forgot. I even forgot we were reading review. The title of this one is, Just One White Chocolate Macadamia cookie for me, please. Five stars. This is from L. Rohanna. Okay, sandwich artist, sure, I'll buy three,

but while I have you, can I interest you in a hilarious podcast? I love history and love to. laugh so OTP checks my boxes. If you're looking for Carlin's hardcore history, please go away. Quickly, like run now. Scared of silly thoughts and thoughtful opinions from people who have good hearts? Run, run, run. Don't look back! They're really not chasing you that fast. However, if you can take crude jokes and bonkers side stories while hearing thoroughly research topics, then you will love this. K and N are both so genuinely funny. that the vibe of this show feels like hanging out with weirdly super informative friends.

Suspiciously informative now that I think about it. I love y'all. Oh, that's sweet. Thank you. I'm glad you told your sandwich artist about the podcast. Yes. Yes. And you ordered a delicious cookie.

You know, I hate white chocolate, but I love a white chocolate macadamia cookie. What's up with that? What is up with that? No one knows. You're like a big, all stinky onion, Kristen, that I've yet to unravel. You've so many layers. I've got to peel back. I'm like an uncrustable.

I'm like an uncrustable bra. So much to peel back. I got to peel the uncrustable layers back to reveal the jelly inside you. The sweet, sweet jelly. Okay, now this is just getting graphic now. Yeah, it is. Time to slow down. Yeah.

Let's pump the breaks here. Okay. Imagine if we did a podcast, it was just an hour of us talking. Well, we did just talk. I'm talking like random bullshit. Norman, I randomly bullshitted my way through the Patreon plug and you were horrified by it. I don't think you like it when I go unscripted because I bring up boogers, you know? That plug was...

It was something. It was. You know, I sat down to write something up and I thought, I know this. I don't need to write it down, baby. Yeah, well, I think you do need to write it down because you've got a lot of stuff wrong. Wrong! No, no. Yeah, you didn't even know what is on our tears. I do too.

And then you were like implying that we were going to send people ear cleaning videos. No. Yeah. No. Here's the deal. On my plugs, I'm getting sexy experts like Dr. Hubert's. like Dr. Hubert Montgomery on the show. I'm getting interviews with former presidents, celebrities, like Judge Judy.

Okay. And then you come on like a real chump, you know, improvving your way through a Patreon plug, making this show a complete embarrassment. And what do you have to say for yourself? You know what? I will apologize. Thank you. We had such a serious podcast before this episode. and I have gone and ruined it with that Patreon plug.

Next week, I will do better, baby. And on that note, shall we wrap up? We shall. You know what they say about history hoes. We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from Be Free or Die,

the amazing story of Robert Smalls Escape from Slavery to Union Hero by Kate Lineberry and Gullah Statesman, Robert Smalls from Sla. Slavery to Congress by Edward Miller Jr. Yes, spoilerily. Okay. That's all for this episode.

Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, our slash old-timey podcast. We hit a thousand Redditors. Hell yeah. Woo-woo.

Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram. at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. She is the gorgeous Kristen Pitts-Keruso. I go by Gaming Historian, and until next time, Tulu, Tata, and Cheerio. Good.