An Old Timey Podcast - 43: Robert Smalls Fights the Confederacy! (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

In part two of our series on Robert Smalls, Robert proves that his ballsy escape from slavery was just part of his story. In this episode, Robert builds wealth, becomes the Captain of a Union ship, and helps persuade the government to allow Black soldiers to enlist in the Union Army. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Lineberry, Cate. Be Free or Die: The Amazing Story of Robert Smalls’ Escape from Slavery to Union Hero. St. Martin’s Press, 2017. Miller Jr., Edward. Gullah Statesman: Robert Smalls from Slavery to Congress, 1839-1915. University of South Carolina Press, 2008. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And I'm musical guest, Kristen Caruso. Great impression, Kristen. Thank you. And on this episode, it's part two of my series on Robert Smalls. I'm so excited. And I just can't hide it. See, there I am, being the musical guest already. You're welcome. You have been obsessed with Saturday Night Live Lively. lately. Okay.

They did the 50th anniversary special. There's a bunch of documentaries out. Yeah. I'm watching all of it. I'm even reading a really boring book about it. I'm reading a boring book about it. Well, I'm at the part where it's like before the show really started. So it's a bunch of names that I've never heard of.

And they're like. Like Roy Donk. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of stuff. And I don't know. It's just a lot of like, so they did some mushrooms and they did some mushrooms and they came up with a new idea for television and I'm just waiting for some names that I know.

Have you seen the movie they just made about Saturday Night Live? No. It's called Saturday Night. Yeah, I know. I think it's on Netflix right now. We should watch it. Well, maybe I will. Yeah, maybe it'll cozy up.

Have a little lovely date. Maybe I'm hanging out with other cool dudes. You just don't know. That's not happening. We'll watch Saturday night and then we can watch Nosphiratu. Oh, that scares the shit. get out of me. It's not scary. Okay. Anyway, I should do a plug. And last week, I did such a good job with our Patreon plug that you said, you know what, Kristen, I think you should always ad lib these.

You do a great job. I don't recall saying that. And I just, I appreciate that support. And so I've decided to do it again. Hey, everybody. If you'd like to support the show, if you want to hear more from us, head on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Norm is already cringing. He's already looking away, looking a scantz, looking a skew. You know what I'm realizing? What? I can mute you.

Don't you dare. Let me try it. All right. Now talk. Why would I talk about it? You're muted. The power I wield with this interface. Okay.

Anyhow, folks at the $5 level, you get a monthly bonus episode. And I would like to say some nice things about Norm's bonus episodes lately. But I won't because he's. He has been rude and he muted me recently. I don't know if you remember 12 seconds ago, but that was him. I'll do it again. Anyhow, at that level, you get a monthly bonus episode and you get into the Discord to chitty chat the day away with other history hoes. Everyone's just honing it up in there.

Total sluts. But if you're feeling spendy, and I know you are, big boy, big gal, big they, here's what I've got for you. Those two things I just mentioned, plus monthly trivia, very fun, plus a card and stickers with our autographs, plus 10% off merch, plus early, ad-free video episodes of an old-timey podcast. Good gracious. This is thrilling. I want to sign up 50 times here in this plug. Well, that's fraud, but we will accept your own. money and we won't issue a refund.

So go on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Wow. Thank you, Kristen. You're welcome. You're just killing it lately with these Patreon. Are you underwhelmed? I thought I did a lovely job. I recall last week you saying you were going to step up your game and give a badass plug

this week. That was a lie, wasn't it? Clearly. You know, I said a lot of things last week. I, it's kind of like when you catch me at the beginning of the day and you ask, what are you going to get done today? And I have everything under the sun that I'm going to accomplish. Catch me at 7 p.m. What did I get done?

Not a whole lot. Yeah, I think we all feel a little adventurous in the morning as far as what we're going to get done. And then by the end of the day, you're like, ooh, well, that didn't turn out very well. Mm-hmm. It's okay, Kristen. We all love you. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

And we support you. Oh, my goodness. You feel bad about muting me. If you really support Kristen, you would sign up at patreon.com. Oh, I see. This has all been a guilt trip. Well done, sir. Now that's how you do a Patreon plug.

You played it like a Midwestern grandma. You know, we don't see you very often. The Patreon hasn't changed. Come on by any time. Well, are you ready to hear part two of this series on Robert Smalls? Hell, yeah, I am. Part one was amazing. No pressure. Well, yeah. Yeah, you made...

The reviews are in. Yeah. You made me look like a fucking fool, though. Why? Because you started out the episode saying it was his daring escape, and I was like, prison escape? And you were like, in a way, yes. And I was like, uh-uh, there's only... you're either in prison or you're not. You either escaped or you didn't. And you were like, well, it can be a prison of the mind or something like that.

And I shat all over it. Then, turns out you were talking about slavery. Boy, was I a douchebag. Hang on, I have a sound for this. You do? Yeah. You ready? Yeah.

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Is that how you were feeling? That's how I thought. I was like, uh. But no, I'm excited. Great. This episode will, this is.

a little more uplifting than the last one, I'd say. I mean, the dude escaped slavery, so that was pretty uplifting. But then he kicked a bunch of ass, and I'm going to tell you all about it. Okay. But first, we have to recap part one. Previously. Oh. Really gets Kristen going.

All right, calm down. It's a family show. Kristen? Stop it. Oh, that's on brand. No, I didn't take a... I didn't do that. We learned about the day.

daring escape of Robert Smalls. Robert Smalls was born into slavery in Beaufort, South Carolina, not Beaufort, Beufurt. And South Carolina was the hotbed of slavery in the United States. There were more enslaved people than free people in the state. This is really tough because I'm smiling because the episode is starting and then you're telling me horrible shit. And I'm like, oh, watch your face. You're on video. Okay, sorry, continue. Robert's mother, Lydia Polite, was an enslaved houseworker.

We don't know who Robert's father was, but more than likely, it was his enslaver, Henry McKee. When Robert was a teenager, Henry McKee sent him away to work in the big city. Charleston, South Carolina! Woo! Charleston was one of the largest port cities in the south. And as the old saying goes, if you could make it there, you could make it anywhere, as long as you were white. Oh, inspiring. Robert Smalls had an arrangement with his enslaver.

As long as he paid Henry McKee $15 a month, he could work whatever job he wanted and as many jobs as he wanted. Living and working in Charleston as an enslaved man was not easy. Robert Smalls had to wear a metal identification badge everywhere he went. He had a 10 p.m. curfew. On his way to work, he regularly saw auctioneers selling off enslaved people to the highest bidder, or enslaved people being whipped as punishment. seeing these horrific scenes made Robert yearn for freedom. As he envisioned what freedom might look like, Robert worked several jobs, a waiter, a lamplighter, unloading cargo from ships, a rope maker.

But he discovered he was really good at being a sailor. He also fell in love, despite Kristen's objections. Okay, well, they didn't. It was with a woman twice his age. Yeah, I didn't like it, okay, I'm sorry. You didn't even give him a slavery pass. What do you mean a slavery pass? That's not a thing. Under their conditions. You don't think it's okay?

Listen, she was quite a bit older. He was a teenager. I don't like it. He was her teenage dream. Okay, Katie Perry. Her name was Hannah Jones, and together they had several children. But then in 1861, Robert Smalls and his family's lives were turned upside down because the American Civil War was now in full. swing. And their home... Norm, what?

I don't like that you make fun of me for saying very serious things are in full swing. Sometimes that's just how it is. It's now a thing on this podcast. If anything happens in history, it is in full swing. That's right. These are the rules. Their home state of South Carolina seceded from the United States and joined the Confederate States of America to protect the institution of slavery.

Robert Smalls soon found himself working aboard a Confederate vessel called The Planter. They performed military operations around the Charleston Harbor, like moving soldiers and weapons between forts and laying mines in the water. Robert's skills as a sailor stood out among the rest of the crew. He gained a lot of trust with the white officers on board the ship, and he was eventually promoted to Wheelman. Meanwhile, Robert Smalls continued to plot his escape behind the scenes. There was a glimmer of hope when the United States Army captured his hometown of Beaufort, South Carolina. But it seemed like they were in no rush to march 75 miles northeast to Charleston. Robert was tired of waiting, so he came up with a bold plan.

He would commandeer the boat he worked on, the planter. Then he would sneak it out of Charleston and take it to the United States Navy ships anchored along the coast. This daring plan would secure freedom for himself. his family, the rest of the enslaved crew, and their families. It was a risky operation, though. What if the white officers found out? And how do you sneak a big steamship out of Charleston? And what about all the Confederate guards and forts along the way?

But for Robert, securing freedom was worth that enormous risk. On the night of May 12, 1863, the white officers left the plantership for the night to be with their families. and with that Robert Small's daring escape began. First, he and the other enslaved men on the ship gathered their families on board. Then they slowly made their way out of the Charleston Harbor. Robert disguised himself as the captain by wearing his signature big, dumb, straw hat. And he easily passed Confederate checkpoints because he knew all the whistle signals. By the time the Confederates realized the planter ship was heading towards Union lines,

it was too late. The ship was out of gun range. But Robert Smalls and the others weren't out of the woods just yet Because what if the Union ships fired on them? The crew quickly raised up a white bed sheet on their flagpole as a sign of surrender And it's a good thing they did, Kristen, Because cannons on the Union ship, the USS Onward, were just about to blast them before they spotted the white flag.

What had just happened was miraculous. Robert Smalls had stolen a Confederate ship with multiple cannons and military papers and smuggled 16 enslaved people to freedom, all without a single shot being fired. But Kristen, this was only the beginning of Robert Small's incredible accomplishments. So on this episode, we'll talk about Robert Small's heroic and patriotic service during the American Civil War.

Okay, okay, I like it, I like it. I'm still kind of shocked that stealing a freaking conflict. Confederate ship wasn't the highlight of this man's life, but all right. Okay, well, let me, uh, semi-mistakes of shame. I'm not trying to downplay what he did. I'm just saying, this dude did a ton of shit in his life. No, I know.

I'm just saying if I did that, it'd be my one accomplishment. And for the rest of time, I'd be like, hey, remember, remember that time? I did that. We were talking about on our walk the other day, how I remember I was telling you how I really wanted to win that Nickelodeon sweepstakes where you got to shop in Toys R Us for five minutes. Yeah. This was back in the day that was like there was a sweepstakes thing for that. Yeah, you basically got five minutes in a grocery cart and you just could fill it with toys and you just got to keep whatever you threw in there. And I applied to win that sweepstakes many times.

I never won. But I thought to myself, if I had won and I gotten to do that, that would have been like the high point of my life. And I just think it'd all be downhill from there. So it's a good thing I didn't win, actually. I completely disagree. Why? I think you're not as confident as you should be. You're always feeling like you need to do more, do more, do more.

And I kind of think that if you'd won the sweepstakes, yeah, that would have been the high point in your mind. And you would have relaxed a little and been like, you know what? Everything else is just gravy. Whatever happens, happens. love me, you'd say, and then you'd shoot 12 Nerf guns at the same time. Because I got them all at Toys R Us. That's right. That's right. And when I met you at that bar, I would have been super confident and I would have just been like, yeah, I won the Nickelodeon

Toys R Us sweepstakes. No, here's how you do it. How would I have done it? Hey, I'm Norm. You probably already know this about me. I'm the guy who won the sweepstakes. No. No. Because multiple. Kids won. Yeah, but I mean, Elizabeth City is a small town. Word would get around fast. No, you would have asked me, so what do you do? What's your deal?

And I would have said, well, my deal is I won the Nickelodeon toys are a sweepstakes when I was 12. And that's about all I could tell you. I mean, that would have been good enough for me. That would have been enough to bag you. Hey, hey, watch it. Hey, whoa, hey. We should probably get started on the story, huh?

I got a big meaty boy today. Okay. Really chubbed up script. Oh, my God. Okay, Kristen. So, it's official. Robert Smalls and the other enslaved people on board the planter had reached the safety of the union line. They were free.

And so they turned to Union Captain John Frederick Nichols, who you looked up last week and said he was quite sexy. He was, yeah. And they asked him, hey there, big boy. You got an extra U.S. flag on you. And Nichols blushed and was like, oh, my goodness. Yes, I do. The crew of the planter took down that white bed sheet, and they raised up the stars and stripes because the planter was now a union ship. USA!

Hell, yes. By the way, as they were doing this, Confederate soldiers at Fort Sumter watched from afar with their telescopes, and they were like... You know, they were pissed. Pissed! Right in... That is terrible. Right in front of them, Kristen. And they probably would have cried more if they knew what else Robert Smalls had on that boat.

He handed over a newspaper from Charleston with the latest news on what was happening around town. Oh, shit, okay. What yard sales were going on that weekend? He turned over military documents stored inside the planter, including a list of Confederate code signals. And the big prize was, of course, four giant Confederate cannons, recently repaired and ready for use. Captain John Frederick Nichols was like, holy fish paste, this is really good stuff. We need to take you to the boss man so you can tell him all about your escape. So Robert Smalls and his group got back onto the planter, and they were escorted down to Port Royal South Carolina, which was now in Union Control.

They were going to meet with the man in charge of the whole U.S. Navy operation down there. Rear Admiral Samuel Francis DuPont. Did he have a rear worth admiring? You're actually laughing at that. Oh, that's good. I wish I would have come up with that one. Well, you know, the rear admiral. We can't both be brilliant.

Yeah, just a sailor with a huge ass. Ooh, rear admiral indeed. Rear Admiral DuPont was a tall, slender, aggressive, battle-hardened Navy man, Kristen. Oh, okay. He was from Delaware, a border state, where slavery was still legal. Oh, shit. I would not have guessed that. All right.

But DuPont was never an enslaver. In fact, he was not a big fan of slavery. However, he did share a somewhat common view among northerners. And that was, well, the Constitution does allow slavery. So there's nothing we can do. Plus, I've always heard that enslavers treated people humanely. And, hey, as long as it doesn't expand into the new states, and territories, I'm okay with it.

Okay, that's interesting. Why would they have a problem with it expanding into new states if they feel like people are being treated well and it's protected by the Constitution? Southern influence. They felt it was like a power grab. Okay. You know what I mean? But DuPont's views changed quickly after Union troops took Port Royal and marched into Beaufort,

South Carolina. and there they encountered 10,000 enslaved people whose enslavers had fled the area. DuPont was horrified at what he saw. He wrote to his wife in a letter, God forgive me. I have seen nothing that has disgusted me more than the wretched physical wants of these poor people. It was a dire situation. Food supplies were dwindling in the area because the army was now there too and they had to be fed.

So the United States government set up camps to provide. food, clothing, housing, and medicine for these newly freed people. And it was while all this was going on that on the night of May 13, 1862, the same night he had stolen the planter, Robert Smalls arrived at Rear Admiral DuPont's headquarters. DuPont was eager to hear the story of Robert Small's escape. And Robert spilled the beans, Kristen. He told DuPont about what the planter was doing for the Confederacy. He pointed out where all the mines were in the Charleston Harbor.

He turned over all those military documents he had. But the biggest piece of information he shared was, hey, the Confederates just moved all of these cannons out of this river near James Island. So it's open for invasion. There's no one defending it right now. Oh, shit. Yeah, that's pretty big deal, right? Well, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Then Robert Smalls took DuPont on a little tour of the planter. And Rear Admiral DuPont was like, I'm about to bust. He was so impressed. Not only did Robert Smalls bring him, quote, a fine boat and quite valuable to the squadron, but he also just knew a ton of information about the area

and how the Confederates were defending it. So, Rear Admiral DuPont did what he thought was best for his country. He offered Robert Smalls a job. He wanted him to pilot the planter for the U.S. Navy. Robert Smalls chuckled Put on his aviators Okay And said

Hell yeah That's really amazing That that music was playing at the time Right Okay That didn't actually happen like that But he did say Yes, I'll take the job

Meanwhile in the Confederate States of America Well boy White folks in Charleston Were slowly coming to the realization That the planter had been stolen By its enslaved crew And they said People simply couldn't believe it, Kristen.

One Confederate soldier wrote, quote, I scarcely think that Negroes devised that scheme. Some white person must be at the bottom of it. Oh, gosh. Are they going to murder some white guy? No. Oh, no. You'll see.

Okay. This news even reached the Confederate Capitol in Richmond and onto the desk of General Robert E. Lee. And Robert E. Lee was like, I say, I say, this better not happen again, and whoever helped those slaves ought to be punished. Oh. He's Foghorn-Leghorn, basically.

I was going to say that is Fog-Horn Leghorn. Oh, did you know he fought for the Confederacy? Fog-Horn Leghorn? I had a hunch. He had a hunch. Confederate commanders and Charleston were like, Oh, yes, Daddy Lee. Ew.

Okay. And they quickly wrote up a new rule. Special field orders number 35. And here's what it read. They're going to come down harsh. You ready? On who, though? Hang on.

Let me read the rule. Okay. No steamboat, small boat, or vessel will be allowed to pass Fort Sumter without a written report. Okay. Yeah, take that. I mean, that's really not as badass as I was expecting. I was expecting, like, and now we're going to, you know, throw the hammer down. And instead it's, we're going to document everything.

Kristen, you were feeling exactly like the white folks in Charleston because they agreed. They were like, that's it? What about those white officers that were on the planter? Where were they? The three white officers in question were Captain Charles J. Relier. We call them CJ. Sure. First mate Samuel Hancock and engineers.

We call them Sammy Hans. We call him Sam Hammies And engineer Samuel Pitcher We just call him Samuel Pitcher One newspaper called their actions Quote Disgusting Tretchery and Negligence

And then another newspaper was like They should be hanged Oh man Well Kristen something had to be done So Confederate authorities looked them in the eye and said Let's go to court! All three of those white officers were placed under arrest and charged with the following. Disobedience of orders for leaving the boat unattended.

Yeah, we remember. And neglect of duty for allowing the planter to be stolen. Oh, I thought it's because some guy took a shit and they just pretended to not see. Neglect of duty? You're not picking up your dog poop when you're supposed to be. You know, in our neighborhood group, Oh my God. Somebody posted, someone didn't pick up their dog's poop.

And I'm getting really sick of it. And the guy that posted that included a picture of the turds. This guy got down on the ground and had like an artsy close up photo of dog shit. That's when I left the neighborhood group because I was like, this, no. There needs to be rules. Like, it's one thing to say, hey, everybody, please pick up after your dogs. It's another to be like, have you ever seen dog shit before? Here's three close-up photos of it.

We didn't need to be reminded of what dog shit looked like. Kristen, lawyers for those white officers. They begged for leniency. Those lawyers were like, they're such troopers. They're such troopers. They're hardworking southern men. They work all the live-long. day. They just wanted to spend time

with their families. Okay. Now, I obviously don't think these guys should hang for this, but I mean, they're not hard working. That's why they're in this position is because they're not hardworking. Well, they're not. What happened was because they would be like, uh,

okay, bye, I'm gonna go get drunk. You guys are good working here, right? You can do my job for me? Okay, cool. Wear my hat. It's fine. No, you should say, don't touch me. my big dumb straw hat. Yeah.

Well, Kristen, once again, you and the public are on the same side. Oh, shut up. Because the public was like, yeah, we don't give a shit. They fucked up and they have to be punished. Okay, I am not on their side. Seems like, no. Those angry white people wanted these guys to hang for it, right? They wanted someone to answer.

I've got your answer. they're lazy bitches. Okay? Also, if you enslave people, you're a lazy bitch, too. Oh. Well, I mean, that's just the truth. So, yeah, the public was like, they fucked up, they have to be punished. And then the lawyers responded, okay, yeah, they did fuck up.

But technically, these guys are not enlisted in the Confederate Army. They're contractors. Oh. And so therefore, they don't have to follow the rules and articles of war. And so therefore, they're not guilty. Okay. Which was true, Kristen. Captain Relier, Samuel Hancock, and Samuel Pitcher were all contractors.

Yeah, but that's not going to work. Yeah, the Confederacy didn't give a shit. Yeah. They were like, hey, we declared martial law so we can just do whatever the hell we want. Yeah, the Confederacy is not real anyway. So, sure, let's make up some rules. them, damn it? No, it's not.

Try spending Confederate money. See how far that'll get you. It's true. It was worthless. All three white officers were found. Guilty! Captain C.J. Relier received three months prison. Oh.

And a $500 fine. Just for inflation, $20,000. Yeah. First mate Samuel Hancock, one month of prison. And a $100 fine. Just for inflation, $4,000. But the Egghead, engineer, Sam. Samuel Pitcher got nothing.

His charges were dropped entirely. Why? It's not clear, but probably because he was just the engineer. He wasn't really in charge of anybody. Okay. Charleston residents weren't super thrilled with the outcome. They were definitely out for blood. Uh-huh.

But, oh well, at least someone was being held accountable. But then... Objection! The white officer's lawyers appealed the ruling. They did. I mean, they got off really easy. Like, they just got a light spank on the booty. Now, the guy who has to pay 500 bucks, that's going to sting. But I mean, I think I'd happily scoop my little booty to prison for a couple months. Nope, these lawyers said, nope, nope, nope, nope, they shouldn't be charged with anything. Oh, boy.

So Confederate commanders looked over the case, and what did they decide, Kristen? Were they so angry about the appeal that they gave these guys more jail time? Nope. They dropped the charges entirely. Wow. Are you ready for the reason why? Yeah. It was the George Costanza defense.

Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? I tell you, I got to plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon. For real? Yes. They ruled that Confederate commanders had not communicated properly to the three white officers that they were not allowed to leave the boat unattended. Wow. So all the charges were dropped.

I guess it's good to be a white guy. Big revelations on this podcast. Wow. Who knew? And who, that really fired up the residents of Charleston, Kristen. They were pissed. They're just embarrassed. They were like, hey, what about John Ferguson, the guy who owned the planter?

He deserves to be compensated for the boat he lost. Oh. John Ferguson was, in fact, mad. Sure. But mostly because he had been leasing the planter to the Confederates for 125 bucks a day. Yeah, and he was loving it. Yeah, which, adjusted for inflation, $4,500 a day he was leasing this boat. And now he wasn't getting shit.

He's getting deadly dick. It's unclear if he was ever paid for the loss of the boat. And then the public cried out, well, what about the enslavers? They are the true victims of the crime. They lost their property. From what we know, Robert Smalls' enslaver, Henry McKee, did nothing. He was informed about the incident, but he never filed a claim to be reimbursed. Perhaps it was because he was now working in a Confederate hospital and too busy to deal with it.

Perhaps it was because he was grieving. Two of his children had recently died from scarlet fever. Or perhaps it was because Robert Smalls was his son and he didn't care. Either way, Henry McKee did nothing. What do you think? It could be a lot of things. It could be that he was smart enough to know that like, there's no way I'm getting any kind of compensation for this.

Who's going to compensate him? The Confederate government. Yeah. Yeah. That was a thing, enslavers did. So they were paid with Confederate dollars? I would assume at this time, yeah. At the time, they didn't know it was worthless.

They had a feeling. Norm. Did they have a feeling this wasn't going to work out? I've had a feeling about cryptocurrency for a long time. I've had a feeling. She's actually doing really well right now. Okay, great. Yeah, I think it's possible that he thought,

eh, nothing's going to come of it. But maybe there's a little guilt there. And yeah, that was absolutely his. son. I just think he just didn't want to deal with it. Hannah's enslaver, man named Samuel Kingman, was interviewed by newspapers about what happened. And he estimated that Hannah and her children were worth about $2,250. Adjust for inflation, $90,000. Oh, shut up. Well, he never filed a claim either. Yeah, which means that they weren't worth that. I realize how awful that sounds. But honestly, That just sounds like some bullshit.

Woe is me. I'm the victim. My Honda Accord was worth 90 grand and it was stolen from me. I tell you what, when I had my little Toyota Yaris and I got in a car accident, they totaled it and they said it was worth more than I purchased it for. I was thrilled. It was a good day for us. Great day.

And I got pizza at Costco that day. Wonderful. From the food court or did you just... Food court, obviously. Okay, I'm sorry. So ultimately the only thing that happened from this whole incident was that the Confederacy put out a $2,000 reward for the capture of Robert Smalls. Adjusted for inflation, $75,000. That's terrifying.

Would anyone succeed? Stay tuned. All right. So, yeah. Many Southerners were pretty upset. about Robert Small's stealing the planter. But many northerners were happier than a possum up a pant leg. The story of Robert Small's great escape spread like wildfire.

Newspapers across the country reprinted an account of the story. The New York Herald wrote it was, quote, one of the most daring and heroic adventures since the war started. Another newspaper said that this act alone was proof that the United States should start enlisting black men to fight in the war. Wow. I should note, though, that the article did have a little dash of racism in there. Well, sure. Dabble, do you?

Mm-hmm. Because it was basically like, wow, who knew that black people could be so brave and skillful? Okay. Yeah, racism was pretty bad in the North, too. Rear Admiral Samuel DuPont may have been the biggest cheerleader of Robert Smalls. He went a step further than anybody. He wrote to the Secretary of the Navy that Robert Smolls. that Robert Smalls and the crew should be compensated for turning the planter over to the Navy.

Oh, hell yeah. Now, at the time, this was standard for enlisted sailors because it encouraged crews to capture enemy ships rather than destroy them. But Robert was a civilian, and he was black. So this recommendation was very extraordinary at the time. And Congress made it happen. On May 19, 1862, just a week after this happened, Congress introduced a bill that would reward Robert Smalls and the crew for the capture of the planter along with its weapons, and Abraham Lincoln quickly signed it into law. Oh, my God. The bill stated Robert and his crew were entitled to half of the appraisal of the planter.

Again, very standard. Newspaper speculated that the appraisal for everything would come in at around $30,000. adjusted for inflation, a million dollars. Whoa! Very expensive. Kristen, let's play the prices right. Oh, my God. Would you like to guess what the appraisal came in at?

Was it a lot lower? Take a guess. 20,000? Yeah. A little too high there, Kristen. Oh. It appraised for $9,000. Okay.

Adjusted for inflation, $340,000. By the way, it cost $32,000 just to build the planter. Robert Smalls was pretty upset about that low appraisal. Yeah. And he would not forget it. More on that later. So with a $9,000 appraisal, Robert Smalls and the crew were entitled to half of that. $4,500, adjusted for inflation.

Robert Smalls and the 16 people on the ship got about $140,000 today to split between them. That really bums me out. You've got this look in your eye. Well, I mean, if they'd gotten half of what it was truly worth, that could have set them up for generations to come. That's, I mean, coming from slavery, you've got absolutely nothing. Right. That would be the thing. Yeah. It would be a total game changer. It would. Except it's not a game. changer because everything sucks, but anyhow continue. Everything sucks right now. As the leader of the Operation Robert Small's share of the prize was $1,500.

So he made, just for inflation today, he made about $50,000. This was way less than Robert had hoped. But at that time for a formerly enslaved person, it was life-changing money. Sure. Because if you remember, he used to earn $1 a month working. in Charleston. I do remember. After getting their payout, Robert, Hannah, and the children were sent to Beaufort to live in one of the many camps set up by the army.

And they were finally reunited with Robert's mother, Lydia. These camps were the first time the government attempted to help newly freed people. And it was known as the Port Royal Experiment. This is the precursor to reconstruction. People were given food, clothing, shelter, protection. Missionaries from the north came down to provide education and religious instruction. Formerly enslaved people were sent back to work on many of the plantations they came from. But now work was paid.

There you go. And with those wages, newly freed people were allowed to purchase land on those abandoned plantations. Work hours were normal. There was no capital punishment allowed. Most of the work was picking cotton. The Union Army needed it really badly. Newly freed people weren't super thrilled about that because they'd rather grow something that was maybe a little more useful to them, like food.

Yeah. But either way, this was a radical experiment at the time that provided a blueprint for what reconstruction could look like for newly freed people. Make no mistake, this was still hard living. But above all, Robert Smalls was just relieved to know that his family, was now safe and free. And now he could focus on another thing. Kicking some Confederate ass.

Yes. Maybe I ought to tie that long hair on your head to the short hair on your ass and kick you down the street. Robert Smalls was now the pilot of the planter for the U.S. Navy. He was a civilian contractor and he earned $40 a month. Holy shit. Just for inflation, about $1,600 a month. But again, he was earning a dollar a month in Charleston. I'm doing the comparison game, yeah.

Now you might be wondering, Kristen, hey, why was Robert a civilian contractor? Why didn't he enlist in the Navy? He probably wasn't allowed to, right? Great question, Kristen. History hos, listen up. Here's a not-so-fun fact. Oh, no, my brains. The United States Army had barred black men from serving, but the United States Navy did not.

Oh. However, formerly enslaved men were not given equal treatment. They were not allowed to get promotions. The highest rank they could achieve was boy. Ooh. That's literally the lowest rank. And it's actually meant for children serving on ships. Yeah.

It was all manual labor and the pay was awful. Boys were also given harsher punishments. If you remember that scene from the terror, Kristen, when Hickey disobeyed orders and Crozier, Punished him as a boy. Yeah. He had to get lashed on his ass in front of everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, all of this meant that if Robert Smalls enlisted in the Navy, he wouldn't get to be the pilot. And his pay would suck ass. Hmm. So that's why he was a civilian contractor. That's really smart. Mm-hmm. Now, he had only been working for three weeks when he got another job offer. You see, the missionaries down in Port Royal.

they kind of needed some help because more and more formerly enslaved people were showing up every day. And the missionaries were like, who, we don't have enough resources to help these people. So a missionary met with Rear Admiral Samuel DuPont and was like, hey, can we take Robert Smalls on a little tour in the north to raise some money? Oh, okay. Yeah. DuPont was skeptical because he thought that this tour might try to take advantage of Robert Small. Plus, he really needed Robert Small's help in South Carolina. He knew the waterways better than anyone.

And there is a war going on. And then DuPont set a sarcastic line that, as a history ho, I think you will all appreciate very, very, very, very much. DuPont quipped, you know, you'd probably make more money showcasing Robert Smalls at P.T. Barnum's Museum in New York. Oh. Fun fact, Kristen. Wow, wow. Samuel DuPont was right because P.T. Barnum was actually showcasing a black man with a somewhat similar story to Robert Smalls. But a made-up version?

No, it was real. Oh, okay. You're ready for this story? Yeah. A man named William Tillman was a free black man working as a sailor when his ship was captured by Confederates. And they were going to sell Tillman into slavery. But at night, Tillman took out a hatchet and hacked. them all to death and threw them overboard.

I love it. Then he sailed the boat to New York, where P.T. Barnum showcased him at the museum along with his hatchet. Future topic? Oh, my God. I hate to admit, but man, if I'd been around in these old timey times, I'd be going to P.T. Barnum's museum every day. Every day. What do you got today, Barnum? More problematic shit. Great. You are a big fan

No, I'm not Well remember P.T. Barnum was A big time abolitionist So he probably was Licking his chops Thinking of this story Anyway, back to our story Rear Admiral DuPont's answer

To the missionary was Hell no Hell no To the no, no, no Yeah, he really needed Robert Smalls for the war effort. Yeah. And the intelligence Robert provided to the Navy was paying

off because remember, he told DuPont that the Confederates had abandoned that river south of Charleston, and so the Navy quickly captured it. And now they could use it to transport troops easily for a possible invasion of Charleston. Okay. Robert Smalls was also

kicking ass, as promised. That summer, he piloted the planter to a Confederate artillery encampment, where Union troops disembarked and burned the camp to the Burn to the ground. And stories like Robert Smalls were helping to change the narrative about black people and about the war itself. That year, Washington, D.C., abolished slavery.

Congress was now paying enslavers money for voluntarily freeing their enslaved people. Oh. Mm-hmm. Like a buyback program. Wow. Okay. Slavery in the Western Territories was abolished. and captured and slave people were no longer considered contraband, they were now free.

As the summer of 1862 came to a close, missionaries once again asked Rear Admiral DuPont if Robert Smalls could help them with some fundraising. They were like, this dude is famous. People want to meet him. He could raise a lot of money. DuPont was still hesitant, though, but this time around, he decided to ask Robert Smalls what he thought about the idea. Oh, wait, Robert was never asked. No, not the first time. Oh.

Imagine that. Yeah. Robert Smalls thought it was a good idea. His speeches could help the people in Beaufort, like his family. Yeah. But he did have one condition. He said, I want to make sure that I can keep my job as the pilot of the planter. And DuPont was like, damn, I respect the hell out of you.

Okay, you're free to go. And with that, Robert Smalls took off. This wasn't just a fundraising operation. Union commanders also gave Robert Smalls a letter. And they were like, we want you to personally deliver this to the Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton. The mission? They wanted to drum up support for the Port Royal Experiment, including authorizing the Army to enlist black troops in Beaufort. That's really smart.

Union commanders in Beaufort argued that they needed more soldiers to help protect the new. newly freed people who were extremely vulnerable and living near hostile territory. And black men were like, hey, excuse me, hey, I'd be willing to be a soldier. We can fight. We can defend ourselves. Let me sign up. And the army is like, gosh, this is a real problem. Where are we going to get more soldiers?

And the black men were like, hey, right here, hey, I'll be a soldier. Mm-hmm. Well, at least one union commander had the fucking nuts to do something. His name was General David Hunter. and without permission he issued General Order number 11, which freed all enslaved people living in Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida. Oh, shit. And then he started recruiting newly freed men in the Port Royal Area for an all-black regiment.

And Congress went fucking bananas when they heard about this. Wait, so he just did it? He just did it. Okay. Future topic? That guy's super interesting. I bet. Congress went fucking bananas when he did this.

Yeah. And they demanded answers from General Hunter about his, quote, regiment of fugitive slaves. Okay. Not fugitive. And also not slaves. Are you ready for Hunter's reply? Yeah. He was like, hmm, well, I don't have a regiment of fugitive slaves.

However, I do have a fine regiment of loyal people whose former. for enslavers are fugitive rebels. Yeah. So suck on that, Congress. Unfortunately, Abraham Lincoln shut down General Hunter's plan. Lincoln was worried that it would cause panic among the border states. I mean, probably. Lincoln was right.

General Hunter was so disheartened about it that he asked for reassignment. And now in late August. troops were needed more than ever. The army had reassigned a ton of troops to Virginia, and that left the union lines in South Carolina very, very thin, and commanders were considering abandoning some of the areas they had already captured. Oh, shit. And so their last hope was Robert Fucking Smalls.

He would go to Washington, D.C., and he would convince those chuckle fucks to allow black soldiers to serve in the army. Robert Smalls arrived in Washington, D.C. in the last week of August, 1862, And he wasted no time. He met with the big cheese himself, Abraham Lincoln. What, continue? Sorry, you're looking at me like, oh, like you just sneezed your jeans over there. Well, that is amazing.

I mean, I'm thinking he's just going to go do some speaking engagements throughout the New England area. But he's got this letter. Remember he's got this letter. I know he's got the letter, but having a letter for Edwin Stanton is not the same as how having a face-to-face meeting with the fucking president. Damn. Sorry descendants of the Stanton family. No.

Much respect to them, but it's a little bit of a different deal. And I think they would agree unless they're wrong. Okay. So Robert Smalls met with Abraham Lincoln and told his story. And he met with several of his cabinet members, including the Secretary of the Navy, Gideon Wells, which is the sexiest name I have ever heard. Gideon Wells. It sounds like a product.

That doesn't sound like a man. How dare you? I wrote here, imagine if Gideon Wells married Allegra Cole. No, Allegra Cole is a really cool name. Gideon Wells

has been around since 1830. They make the best wells. Wells? They sell the wells. Gideon Wells is a company. I'm telling you. It's like a liquor company. Gideon Wells.

Like a well drink? Oh, sure. Yeah. Actually, let's start it. No one steal that idea. Kristen and I are going to do it. And if you do it, we're coming after you. Yeah.

And then Robert Smalls met with the Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, who Kristen does not respect at all. He recounted his incredible story, and he advocated for black men to serve in the army. Well, whatever Robert Smalls said, it worked. At the end of the meeting, Stanton handed Robert Smalls a letter and ordered him to bring it back to the union. commanders at Port Royal. That letter authorized the recruitment of black soldiers into the United States Army. This was a big deal, but Edwin Stanton knew that it was not a popular move at the time. So he used some interesting language in the order. First of all, it only authorized the recruitment of 5,000 men, and it said that black men would be armed, uniformed, equipped, and instructed in drills,

discipline, and duty. But it didn't classify them as soldiers. It said they were laborers. Hmm. Edwin Stanton also wrote that the order, quote, must never see daylight because it is so much in advance of public opinion. Yeah. And that tracked with the shifting views of Abraham Lincoln's cabinet, because they now believe that victory in the war could end slavery. Abraham Lincoln had already hinted that he was going to emancipate enslaved people in the southern states. But he argued he could only make that proclamation from a problem.

position of power. He needed the Union Army to secure a major victory on the battlefield, which they were sorely lacking at the time. So after meeting government officials, Robert Smalls gave his first public speech at the Israel-Bethel African Methodist Episcopal Church. And he drew very big crowds. And then it was back to Port Royal. He wanted to deliver that order as soon as possible. Yeah. And when Union commanders got the news, they were relieved. the additional troops could help secure the area again. Kristen, this order to recruit black soldiers in the Port Royal Area opened the floodgates for more black men to enlist in the army across the country. By the end of the American Civil War, 179,000 black men served in the army, while 19,000 served in the Navy.

That's awesome. And it all started right here. Robert Smalls then continued his speaking engagements. He spoke in big cities like New York City and Philadelphia to huge crowds, raising badly needed funds for the Port Royal Experiment. Free black people in particular were eager to meet him. They sang songs and showered him with gifts. He was a hero. Well, yeah, it would be so inspiring to meet him.

And during that speaking tour, the United States finally got that battlefield victory they were looking for, at Antietam. Well, technically it was more of a draw. but that was enough for Lincoln. And in September of 1862, he issued his preliminary emancipation proclamation. And it read that on the first day of January, in the year of our Lord, which you love, Kristen. I do. It really feels official when we invoke the year of our Lord. It's true. 1,863, all persons held as slaves within any state or designated part of a state,

The people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free. You think he could have simplified it a little bit? Yeah, I think he could have trimmed the fat. But keep the year of our lord in, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Robert Smalls and his wife Hannah celebrated the news. This was a huge deal.

This was a guarantee from the United States that all the formerly enslaved people in Beaufort would be officially. free. Speaking of Beaufort, by October of 1862, Robert Smalls had wrapped up his speaking tour and was back home, resuming his duties as the pilot of the planter. But Kristen, trouble was lurking. Remember how the Confederates had a bounty on Robert Small's head? Yes. Well, shortly after Smalls got home, a group of white dudes showed up into Beaufort, and they're like, hey, um, does, does anybody know where Robert Smalls lives? Oh, God. Alert, alert, alert, alert. Nobody knows.

Nope. Well, that was, they're like the worst kidnappers ever because they rolled into Beaufort asking this question and the union troops were immediately notified and the men were arrested. Oh, thank God. Okay. Terrible kidnappers. You have some advice for them? I bet they would have taken off Robert Small's blindfold, too. Probably.

I really like that as part of this podcast we're learning that you would be an excellent kidnapper. Thank you, Kristen. It's not really a compliment, actually, Norm. But, okay. How would you have gone about trying to kidnap this man? I kidnapped your heart. Oh. Think about it.

I will. Kristen, do you think that kidnapping attempt scared Robert Smalls? I mean, maybe not that one, honestly. I mean, those guys were so dumb. Mm-hmm. He was right back at work, piloting the planter. And not only that, he was now a business owner. Robert was not only brave, badass, sexy.

He also owned Gideon Wells. Oh, wow, a callback. Very good. No, Robert was smart with money, Kristen. Okay. He put a good chunk of the money he got from the planter into government bonds. And then he took the rest of that money And he opened his own general store in Beaufort Nice

He sold badly needed supplies To the newly freed black residents And he was making good money 200 bucks a month Remember his pilot salary is 40 bucks a month Yeah this is awesome Yeah he was enormously successful But still Robert felt like something was missing

In his life Because all around him black men from Beaufort were volunteering to enlist in the army and fight in the war, to risk dying for their country. Robert Smalls was still piloting the planter for the Navy, but maybe he felt like he wasn't doing enough. One day that fall, a union officer stopped by Robert Small Store to see how everything was going.

And that's when Robert dropped a bombshell. He was going to enlist as a private in the first South Carolina Volunteers, an all-black regiment. The union officer was stunned. He was like, dude, you've done so much already. You're one of the best pilots in the Navy. You're making great money running the store. Why would you enlist in the army and take such a risk?

Robert Small's reply spoke to his character. Here's what he said. How can I expect to keep my freedom unless I fight for it? And suppose the Confederates come back here. What good would my money do me then? I should enlist even if I were making $1,000 a week. Isn't there an argument that he's of more value working for the Navy? Absolutely.

But to him, he felt like he could be doing more. But I'm, here I am criticizing. Isn't there an argument that he would be doing less? Because he's highly skilled as a seaman. And then he goes off and fights in a battle. I get where he's coming from, though. This is a very dude thing. I think it is.

I think it is. Maybe he's feeling a little emasculated, just piloting a boat. And he's seeing all of his friends go off and fight. And he felt like he wanted to get in on that. And he felt like... I mean, honestly, maybe he does want to stomp some ass. That would be very satisfying. And actually, now that I'm thinking about that, that would be real fun.

Be real fun, war? No. Well, hear me out. you've spent your whole life enslaved and now a sudden you get to kill a bunch of white dudes. Doesn't sound too bad. As a white dude. I will say that like I watched a lot of war movies growing up. Yeah.

And I remember like I had some buddies that joined the military at a high school. I almost joined the military. And I remember feeling weird guilt about not enlisting. Yeah. So, like, maybe that's what he was feeling. Maybe he was like, I'm not worthy until I, like, go fight and put my life on the line. All right. I'll stop arguing with you about this because I think we're just on different sides of it.

Well, good news, Kristen. Robert Smalls ended up not enlisting. More than likely, Rear Admiral Samuel DuPont talked him out of it. Yeah. Because he was like, dude, your skills are really needed in the Navy. Sounds like the rear admiral and I have something in common. We love admiring rears, and we also think that his skill set needs to be in the boat. We haven't reached your full potential yet.

Plus, there were rumblings that the union was going to attack Charleston, and Rear Admiral DuPont was going to need Robert Smalls now more than ever to ensure victory. For the past several months, the Navy had been pressuring DuPont to attack Charleston. The war was not really going as planned for the United States. Besides that stalemate at Antietam, they seem to be suffering defeat after defeat after defeat. Taking Charleston would be huge symbolically. Militarily, it didn't really hold much significance. And the Navy was like, okay, DuPont, it's time to attack Charleston. And we're going to give you a bunch of those newfangled ironclad ships to do.

the job. But DuPont was hesitant to attack for a few reasons. For one, he didn't trust the new ironclad ships. Hmm. He's being a little bit of a boomer, but he actually had good reasons for why. There was no doubt the ironclad ships could take a mighty pounding, which is also the name of my favorite porn. But DuPont thought the ironclads were really slow and they lacked firepower. Plus, Charleston had really boosted. their defenses considerably. They put up more cannons around the harbor. They threw obstacles in the water. They laid a bunch more mines. In fact, it was one of the most heavily defended cities in the entire Confederacy. DuPont compared Charleston to a porcupine's ass.

Really? Yeah. All quills. You know? Sure. Porcupine's shooting its ass in the air. I thought the same thing when we visited. Really?

Yeah. This whole place is just a pokey little butthole. I like Charleston. I did too. It was just a little joke. We can't joke about that. About porcupines' but holes? That's right.

Okay. We got porcupines listening to this podcast. And they are offended. Porcupines are so sensitive these days. That's right. That's what cancel culture is all about. It's very real and it's all done by porcupines. That's right.

Well, the Navy didn't like what they were hearing from DuPont. And so they're like, well, if you don't want to do the job, Maybe you should consider retiring. Oh, that is bitchy. I know. DuPont was greatly offended. Yeah. And he was like, fine. I'll attack.

And the Navy was like, great. They sent him nine ironclad ships. That's a lot. Yeah. And one of those ships was a new 750-ton experimental ship made completely out of iron. The USS Keukuk. And DuPont assigned Robert Fucking Smalls

To pilot it For what it's worth Robert Smalls actually had a very different idea For the attack on Charleston He kind of wanted to pull a John Brown Okay So he was like, hey I'll move in with the ground troops

Towards Charleston And along the way I can help recruit enslaved people And arm them I know these people They're eager to fight I bet I can raise 10,000 soldiers Well, holy shit.

I think Robert Smalls also understood the symbolism of black soldiers taking Charleston. Yeah. Where the seeds of the Confederacy were first planted. Yeah. Where the opening shots of the Civil War were fired. Where he himself had escaped slavery. Robert Smalls believed that, quote, Charleston must be totally destroyed.

But DuPont refused the suggestion. He was like, dude, I need you to be a pilot. pilot this ship for me. Plus, apparently the army was not going to get involved in the battle for Charleston until the Navy had fulfilled their duty of disabling Charleston's defenses. Oh. Yeah. On April 7, 1863, on a clear afternoon, DuPont began the assault.

Is this just a death wish? I guess you're going to tell me. I'm going to tell you, keep your halter top on. I'm not going to bore you with the nitty-gritty details of this battle, but long story short, It was a disaster, Kristen. Uh-oh. So DuPont was right to voice concerns about ironclads because they were way too fucking slow. They could only fire six to seven shots per hour.

Oh, my God. And the Union ships were basically surrounded on three sides by Confederate artillery, which just kept blasting them over and over and over. There were numerous obstacles. There were mines, torpedoes. The Confederates had also laid. buoyed in the harbor. And so when a ship reached a certain buoy, they were like, okay, that's the correct

distance. This gun, this gun, this gun, all fire on them, which is actually really smart. No, I was just thinking that this is like, okay, your bonus episode where you talked about PT Barnum and you would share some of his ideas and I hated him so much because he was such a piece of shit, but also he had really great ideas. You're saying this was a great idea? It is, and I hate that. It's a great idea.

This just in. Kristen thinks the Confederacy had quote great ideas. No, no, no, no, no, no. We're just talking. Oh, God. Oh. No, can you imagine you're in a giant... Sardine can floating in the water, basically.

Yeah, except the sardine can weighs a thousand pounds. Oh, more than that. Yeah. And you have to be like, okay, just fired that shot. Everybody hang on, okay? Everybody stay still. I'm looking at you, buddy, up on that hill. I'm coming for you.

in 12 minutes. Hey, no fair, you're firing on us and we can't fire back. This sucks. Yeah. The USS Keukuk took a ton of fire. Robert Smalls said the noise was deafening. The Keukuk was taking so much fire,

they couldn't even open their gun ports to shoot back. Oh, Lord. One cannon fragment shot through the pilot house, narrowly missing Robert Smalls. He said his vision was permanently impaired. from this battle. Because of the gun smoke or? Yeah, gunpowder.

Okay. Just like everywhere. He said his vision was never the same. About three hours after the battle began, Rear Admiral DuPont ordered a retreat. In total, the Confederates had fired 2,209 shots. The union fired 139. It was an ass-wopin, Kristen.

Well, and I bet it took them forever to retreat, too. So that's even more. embarrassing. You have to slink out of there so slowly. Yeah. And Robert Smalls just, it just shows his skills as a pilot. He was able to navigate out of the harbor and save everyone on board. Yeah. Five of the ironclad ships were either completely or partially disabled, and Charleston remained in Confederate hands. It was an embarrassing defeat. And as a result, Rear Admiral Samuel DuPont was relieved of his duties. Oh, he should have just retired.

Maybe go out with a little class and grace. Yeah, get a sheetcake. Isn't that what you get when you retire from any company? A sheet cake? Yep, that's what they do in the Army and the Navy, too. Get a sheet cake. My dad got one. Did your dad get a little ceremony?

Did you guys go up and smile for some pictures? No, I don't think so. Wow. I think he just put in his papers and he was like, Okay, your last day is this. What if, what if betrayal of betrayals? He was allowed to invite you all to the ceremony, but instead he was like, hold on, if my family's not here, I get this entire sheetcake to myself. Oh, you know, he didn't tell us about some.

Maybe he there was a ceremony a sheetcake, he just didn't tell us about it. Was there a day when he came home with frosting and his mustache? Think about it. By the way, history hose. Kristen thinks my dad was like a secret agent guy. Yes, and I think you should stop talking about it because I'm very sure. Okay, we'll stop. Frankly, yeah, yeah.

In fact, we might have to bleep that whole thing. It was so funny over Thanksgiving when we were out to eat and you were just like asking my dad all these questions about his career. What? He worked for the NSA norm. He did. That's all we can reveal. Everyone. I am on to something, but I will not say anymore.

I've always wondered why my dad's name was James Bond. Okay. That's a dumb joke. James Bond works for British intelligence. Doesn't even make sense. What's the American version of James Bond? Jack Cracky. Jack Reacher.

Oh, okay. Yeah, he's like a big badass James Bond. There's other spies, right? Austin Powers? No, he's British too. Shit. All right. History owes, let us know of an American spy. Yeah, it's your dad. It's my dad. You're right.

So, yeah, DuPont was relieved of his duties. Robert Smalls was sad to see him go. Well, these things happen, though. Like, it's you every morning. Huh? Relieved of my duty. Kristen! Listen, I didn't make any Kea-Cuck jokes.

And so... Oh, I wrote and deleted many Kia Cuck jokes. Uh-huh. This just shows how classy we are. It was named after a Native American chief. Oh, okay. I don't know about this, but it is kind of funny. I'll just leave it out.

We've got beauty. We've got grace. We are Miss United States, both of us, sharing the title, even though one of us clearly deserves it more. Check me drink. Check out when I drink water from this bottle. Well, you think you do that in an especially beautiful way? You don't. I assure you you don't.

It turns the listeners on. Okay. Yeah, DuPont was one of Robert Small's biggest advocates. He gave him that pilot's job. He helped push for the enlistment of black soldiers. Yeah, he respected. He respected the hell out of Robert Smalls, just the way I respect vegetarians. Yep.

The loss at Charleston and DuPont's departure wasn't the only bad. news, though. The following month, Robert Small's son, Robert Smalls Jr., died of smallpox. Oh. 16 months old. He had only been an infant when his father took him to freedom on board the planter. Despite this heavy loss, Robert Smalls kept working. He ran his general store. He continued to pilot the planter throughout the spring and summer of 1863, mostly moving troops around and supplies. Meanwhile, the United States decided to attack Charleston again, this time, though, with ground troops. And one of those regiments that attacked was an all-black unit called the 54th

Massachusetts. Kristen, are you familiar with the 54th? No. Have you ever seen the movie Glory? No. You've never seen Glory? I've never seen a lot of movies. Oh, man, you would love Glory. Okay. Yeah. Great movie. It's about the 54th, Massachusetts. It'd be weird if it wasn't. Great movie. It's about this guy who runs into this gal. And at first they don't like each other, but then they decide they do. You're actually thinking of the movie Morning Glory, where Rachel McAdams is a news producer. And she falls for Patrick Wilson.

Common mistake. I actually like Morning Glory as well. Of course you do. You love a romantic comedy. Fun fact, Kristen. Wow. Wow. The 54th Massachusetts was led by a white officer named Robert Shaw.

And during their attack on Fort Wagner, which was near Charleston, Robert Shaw died. And the Confederates... Wow, that's not a very fun fact for Robert Shaw or his family. What a terrible man you are. Okay, how about this. Oh, no, my brains. And why don't you let me finish my fun fact? You know what?

Wow. I'm going to mute you while I say this. So the Confederates refused to... to return Robert Shaw's body because he commanded black troops. So they threw his body into a common grave with his men.

Robert Shaw's father, who is a staunch abolitionist, said, quote, we can imagine no holier place than that in which he lies among his brave and devoted followers. Nor wish for him better company. What a bodyguard he has.

Have you talked about that before on the podcast? The 54th? I mean, that story sounds familiar. Maybe I have. That is awesome. Yeah. The 54th Massachusetts failed to take Fort Wagner, but their bravery showed the public that, yes, black men were willing to fight and die for their freedom.

And I'd say that Robert Smalls certainly helped move that needle forward. Yeah. Unfortunately, that second attack on Charleston never really amounted to much. While the union was able to make some progress, the city itself was still in Confederate hands. So the union resorted to laying siege to Charleston. That siege lasted 567 days. What exactly does that mean? A siege?

Yeah. Basically, you surround a city. Okay. No one is allowed in, no one is allowed out, and you just fire artillery on the city all the live-long day and basically force them to surrender because they can't, they're going to run out of food, they're going to get tired of getting shelled every day. Yeah, okay. Good old-fashioned siege. Worked in the Middle Ages, too. This was the longest siege in American history.

After that second failed Charleston attack, Robert Smalls continued to. to pilot the planter on routine missions. But during one such mission, Kristen, things got a little crazy. So, in the fall of 1863, the planter was ordered to bring provisions to Morris Island. So Smalls guided the planter through a narrow creek when suddenly, it came under intense crossfire.

A little hard to take this seriously. The captain of the planter was a guy named Captain Nickerson. And he panicked. He was like, uh, get the ship to the beach. and then he ran and hid under the coal bunker. No. Yes. Well, Robert Smalls wasn't about to let that happen.

He took control of the planter. He started barking out orders, and he piloted the ship out of danger and was able to deliver that food to the soldiers on Morris Island. Wow. And when Union commanders heard about what happened, they took action, and they wrote up a new order. Are you ready for the order?

Yeah, no little bitches. No bitches allowed. on the planter. It read, You will please place Robert Smalls in charge of the planter as captain. Hell, yes. He is an excellent pilot of undoubted bravery and in every respect worthy of that position. This is due him as proper recognition of his heroism and services. The present captain is a coward.

Oh, oh, I didn't think they were going to talk shit in this. Okay, keep going. The present captain is a coward, though a white, man. Despite being white, this guy sucks. Dismiss him, therefore, and give the steamer to this brave black Saxon. What's Saxon mean? I think it's like a, man, let's look it up because... Okay. The Saxons were a Germanic people who lived in what is now northern Germany. Okay, well, that's not what they meant, but... Is there a secondary definition? Brave Saxon meaning...

Maybe they meant Anglo-Saxon. Bravery was a core value in Anglo-Saxon culture. Let's give up on this. Let's give up. Okay. Just like that. We give up. Just like that white guy who was a coward, though white.

And here's something you may find interesting about him. He was white. Okay. Now it's time for me to admit that you kept calling Robert the pilot, and I just assumed that was the tippity-top position. No, he just steered the boat. there was also a captain who was above him. Yeah, I understand that now. Captain.

Captain? Captain. Captain? You've seen Peter Pan. Yeah, so many times. Mm-hmm. And yet, and this is a brag, and I've bragged about this before, and I'll brag about it again, probably to my dying day, that your father achieved the rank of captain. But I have never once called him captain.

That's a damn shame, too. A damn shame. What a miss. opportunity. No, no, that's respect. It's that I, I, I, I hear it in my head as a fun word to say. I love to say cap'n. And I finally have someone in my life who is a cap'n. But, you know, my dad would find it funny if you call him cap'n. I know he would, but like, you know, he put in a lot of work for that title. He sure did. I, okay, I used to, slight tangent, I used to work for an organization that worked exclusively with doctors. And I had a lot of colleagues who didn't want to, when they were

talking to a person, didn't want to call them doctor so-and-so. They wanted to have that kind of same level. But I always felt like, man, you went to school for a million years. I'll call you a doctor. Yeah. Why the hell not, right? Tell you what, if I ever got my PhD, I would demand everyone call me doctor. Including when you're, oh my God, oh my God. You know you absolutely know that medical doctors, medical doctors listen up and be prepared to write in with a quill or something. A quill? I realize writing in sounds different than just email us or comment on social media.

I want to know, medical doctors, have you had some douchebag come into your office for a routine appointment but insist on being referred to as doctor because they've got like a doctor? in literature or something. They got a PhD and like... Yeah. Hamster mating or something. Yeah. And they're like, and they'll call you a doctor,

but they are also like, just so you know. I believe I've earned that title too. Yeah. So yeah. They made Robert Smalls the captain of the planter. This was a huge honor. Just two years ago, he was a lowly deckhand, and now he was the damn captain of the planter.

He earned it. Hmm. Hilariously, Confederate newspapers reported on the story, and they're like, so what? Big deal. Who cares? Why do they keep talking about Robert Smalls? Who cares? This is my favorite thing.

Why? I just, I've noticed this about different, I don't know, a lot of different things. People are like, oh, that guy sucks. No one listens to him. No one pays attention to that person. And it's like the fact that we're even talking about this means that people do care. The fact that you're writing the article means you are bothered. The fact that we're all talking about it means it is in fact news.

Imagine that. I bet that drove you crazy as a journalist. What specifically? Like for the newspaper you worked for, people are like, I don't even know why you guys cover this certain thing. Did anyone ever do that? Like, why are you even reporting on this? Oh, not often enough. You're using a bad example.

Oh, okay. Sorry. Because there were things that I was like, yeah, this shouldn't be covered. But I'm talking more about when people try to argue that something is not news or like someone is not relevant. Mm-hmm. I see. And. Oh, yeah.

Like, like, why are we? Like, it happens with celebrities a lot. Yes, that's what I'm thinking of. Okay. My bad. Yeah. I was equating celebrities to small town journalists. like yourself, Kristen.

Oh, my God. Just look at me. Well, by God. Getting promoted to captain came with a sweet pay bump. Now Robert Smalls was making $150 a month. Adjusting for inflation, $4,000 a month. Hell yeah. By the way, the average black soldier made $10 a month.

Yeah. More good news followed. In December of 1863, Robert and Hannah had another child. Sarah Vorhees Small. Vorhees. Would that come from, or do you know? Robert was a big fan of Friday the 13th. It's a Dutch name.

Okay. Old-timey Dutch name. Yeah, I just didn't, you know, thank you. Yeah, the movie. All right. Mm-hmm. It was their first child born free. Oh.

Pretty significant. Yeah. But Kristen, all of these accomplishments were nothing compared to what Robert Smalls did next. You are going to go crazy for this. Okay. So the next month in January of 1864, Robert Smalls did probably the greatest spite move of all time. It's in my Hall of Fame. You love spite moves.

So maybe you're the one who's going to go crazy for this. Oh, I already did. Okay. Did you hear me hooting and hollering downstairs earlier? Is that what that was? Uh-huh. You know what he did? What?

He purchased the old McKee House at 5-11 Prince Street in Beaufort, South Carolina. Oh my God. It's the one you looked at last week. If you want to look at it again. Wait, can you tour this house? I believe so. Fuck, and we didn't tour this place? Well, actually, I don't know if you can't.

It might be a private residence. We are such numb nuts. We got to go back to Charleston. Well, and this is in Beaufort. So it would be quite a little journey. I think it's a private residence. But what if I show up with a basket of muffins? Yeah, it's a private.

residence. You didn't answer my question. What if I show up with a basket of muffins? Oh, we just love your home. Well, don't you think this place ought to be a museum? It's on the National Register of Historic Places. I want more, baby. Oh, yeah, today the home is a private residence. Wah, wah, wah. Sorry. What kind of baked good would someone have to offer you to get a tour of the home? Little Debbie Honeybuns. Oh, my God. You can do whatever you want in the house. house. You are such a cheap. They're so good.

No, they're not. When we first dated, you would buy me little Debbie honey buns to lure me into your apartment. I did not need to lure you, sir, fake news. I was very cute. But yeah, you liked those honey buns, and so I would keep them in stock for you to lure you into the home. Very much appreciated. Yeah, that's all it would take for me to let literally anyone into our house. You come here with little Debbie honey buns.

You come here with little Debbie honey buns, you're in. Listen, you invest a $1.25 at the grocery store, and then you're good to go. Inflation, no. They're like $7 now. They are not $7. Don't worry. This new president is going to fix all of that. They are $3, absolute max.

You know, let's go buy some after we record, and you can eat shit. I won't be eating those. So yeah, he purchased the old McKee house. It was the house his mother, Lydia, had worked in for years. It was the house he was born in. Well, born out back. Anyway, newly freed people dreamed of owning property one day. But imagine buying not only property, but the property of your former enslaver.

Okay, this is a thing people do now that I think is so cool. when people are able to like go back through their family tree and like locate the property where their family was enslaved and then they go and buy the property. Damn, that's amazing. I think that's so cool. That's awesome. So, Kristen, are you wondering how did this happen? I mean, not really. He had a bunch of money and he bought the property.

Well, too fucking bad. I'm going to tell you how it happened. Oh, okay. Did I not just explain it? Okay. So a few years earlier, Congress had passed the Revenue Act, and it was a way to help raise money for the war, and it included a property tax. And as you can imagine, if you lived in a state that seceded from the United States, you probably weren't too concerned about paying that property tax. But hey, what happens when the United States Army comes marching into town? And all of a sudden, your property is part of the United States again. Oh, damn it. And I don't have any... enslaved people to do all my work for me. How am I going to pay this bill? Yep, that's exactly what happened to the McKee House. Union troops have been in Beaufort since November of 1861, and over

the next few years, they tried to collect property tax. They posted about it in the newspapers. They listed the addresses, and right next to it, how much money was owed on each property. But Henry McKee was gone. Long gone. He had run off. And because he failed to pay, his property now belonged to the government. And the government could either use that property for themselves, or they could auction it off to the highest bidder. My God. And they took all of Henry McKee's property. The Ashdale Plantation, where Robert's mother Lydia was born, Henry McKee owed $48 in taxes on that place.

It's about $2,000 today. the government ended up auctioning off the Ashdale plantation for 250 bucks. Adjusted for inflation, someone bought that place for $10,000. It was on 400 acres. Holy crap. And then Henry McKee had another plantation. It was the 700-acre Grace Hill plantation. The government decided to actually keep that, and they used the land to set up a school.

for formerly enslaved people. And several of them bought some of the land. And then you have the house at 511 Prince Street. Henry McKee had actually sold the house about a decade earlier to somebody else. But that person had also fled Beaufort. And they didn't pay taxes on it. And so the house went up for auction.

And Robert Smalls was just delighted to put in a bid. Now, one caveat with these auction was that if you wanted to buy the property, you had to pay the full amount in cash. And that was no problem for Robert Smalls. He won the auction with a winning bid of $665. That is awesome. Just for inflation, $25,000. Robert Smalls said, quote,

I am proud of the fact that I live in a dwelling built on the very ground where I was born. The old homestead and its surroundings are mine, and I shall leave it for my children to enjoy. God damn. I love this story so much. It's checking all my boxes, including my bargain box. Oh, he gives he got a great deal. I love that he got a great deal.

Bargain mansions. We're here in Beaufort, South Carolina, where former enslaved man, Robert Smalls, is looking for a home for his family. Now, that is an HGTV show that I would love to watch. Watch. Gone are the days of episodes about like, oh, so we're going to blow out this wall so the kitchen can be bigger and, you know, the dining room is, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

No, boring, don't care. Instead, every episode starts with footage of scared white people running away from town. Fleen town. It shows them being shamed by the notices in the newspaper about how they have. haven't paid their taxes. Oh, God. Wow. Well, make a pitch. No, this is a reality TV show that needed to have been done, you know, several, not several hundred years ago, sadly, but a long time ago. Well, I mean, you mentioned to me that, like, black families today are, like, doing family research and learning, like, where their ancestors were enslaved and they're buying the property. What if that was the show? Okay, that's also a very good show.

But Norm, what I really, really want is the immediate satisfying spite move of the episode starts with the white guy fleeing. Black guy finds out. Black guy checks his bank account. Black guy goes to the, you know, auction.gov or whatever the old-timey thing is. There are no websites. He showed up and you placed a bid at the site. And then the episode, I wouldn't want it to end on this note, but I certainly would want a sweet little moment at the end where the camera crew finds the white guy and his wife, because I'm sure she's there too. And then they get the news that their home has been purchased by someone they used to enslave.

And then we just see that sweet, beautiful reaction shot. Now, I will say this became a big issue after the war ended. A lot of these white Southerners returned to their homes. Yeah, I bet those bitches did. Formerly enslaved people living in them. And they're like, what the hell went on? And they took these battles all the way to the Supreme Court to try to get their property back. And you're not going to believe this.

Andrew Johnson, that big asshole, was like, oh yeah, you can have your house back. Okay, well, that really... Sorry to burst your bowl, but yeah, that did happen a lot during Reconstruction. Okay, well, that's terrible, and I didn't want to hear any of that, and I'm mad at you for telling me that. Sorry. So, in my dream scenario, this TV show that I'm making does not get picked up for the season where Reconstruction just falls apart because of assholes. Instead, it's just a beautiful couple seasons.

Okay, so this show takes place in 1863 is what you're pitching. That's right. Okay. Uh-huh. Well, season three, which takes place during Reconstruction, you're saying terrible season. Hated it. No, we don't want to see the white people come back and steal shit. So no.

I know, but that's what happened. Great. Okay. Well, not great. But I'm just saying, on my reality show, That's when we pack up and leave. Shows over, folks. Robert and his family proudly moved into the beautiful White House on Prince Street.

As a kid, he had to sleep in the small slave quarters out back. And now he was going to sleep in the master bedroom. Mm-hmm. Literally. I know we call it the primary bedroom these days, but the irony is just too delicious here. Yeah. Robert Smalls was now sleeping in the master bedroom. master bedroom.

On the next episode of an old-timey podcast, Robert Smalls fights for equality during Reconstruction. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. This is such a good series. Thank you. Well, Christian, what do you think? I loved it.

I fudging loved it. Are you learning a lot about an American hero named Robert Smalls? I am. And I salute you for telling you this tale. and also him. I do love, we have a lot of South Carolina history hoes commenting in there just like, oh my gosh, this is the coolest story

to come out to Charleston. It's an amazing story. Yeah, it's awesome. Also, people have let us know that there absolutely are plaques about Robert Smalls and Charleston. Double-sided plaques. Yeah. That's the ultimate plaque.

Like when you've got to flip it over. Hmm. Double-sided? Well, no, you don't have to flip it up. What are you talking about? Double-sided. No, they're talking. It's the same thing on both sides, sir.

No, it's the same thing on both sides. You've never seen front-to-back plaques? You've got to go around and read the behind. No, that's not a thing. No. Yes, it is. No, it's not. It's the same thing on both sides.

So if you're coming this away down the road, you see it. This away down the road, you see it. That's how plaques work. We'll have to verify this. with our Charleston history hose. Anyway, what this means is you and I probably did read that plaque and go, wow, that is just fascinating. And then it fell out of my brain. I was too busy standing behind the giant cannon at Fort Sumter pretending like it was my penis.

I know. And I wanted you to like really pretend, but you got a little embarrassed. The Park Ranger was looking right at me. He knew what you were doing. He knew what I was up to. He knew something was about to happen. And so I was just like, do-to-do looking around. Like, I'm just standing by this canon.

I'm not pretending like it's my don't. I'm just a mid-30s man pretending like this canon is my penis. Don't worry. Just come out and admit it. That's what I'm doing. Kristen? Yes. Do we have any post-story banter we'd like to talk about?

I've got some reviews to read to you, darling. Oh. You ready? Mm-hmm. You always like hearing the reviews. They're entertaining. People are really funny. Got some funny folks out there. Are you ready? Okay, let me see what you're in the mood for. Do you want to hear from someone who loves us but doesn't have a lot of confidence? Oh, they need our help more than ever.

Okay, I'll start with them. I'm going to start with them. Title of this review is, Oh, God, are they looking? Five stars. This comes from Eastside Tilly. They write. I feel like writing this review is like someone looking over your shoulder while typing since Kristen and Norm read these. I've lost all ability to write. This podcast is really good and you'll love it. I wish my brain could let me write a better review because, again, this podcast is really good. Just listen to it, would you? This is the best I've got.

Eastside Tilly, we love your confidence. We love it. You just calm down. It's not as good as Westside Tilly's review. Wow. This is why East Side Tilly isn't confident because you keep going on about West Side Tilly. I'm just teasing. East Side Tilly is right, though. We do love to read the five-star reviews. You ready for another? Yeah. This one, title is Funny and Varied. Five Stars.

Like a buffet. I don't know how to say this name, Ohio Ellie. Oh, Ohio Ellie. There you go. All right. It's history. It's funny. And yeah, you will hear some added context and leftist ideas from time to time. Like Hitler was a farting freak.

Very leftist. If that somehow offends you, sashay away. I agree. Is that on RuPaul's drag waste? That's the off brand. For some reason, I'm talking like Elmer Fudd tonight. Is that on Rupal's drag race, sashay away? Yes, Norm.

Here's the deal. Okay. There's a competition. Then the two bottom queens. That's kind of funny. Anyway, the two bottom queens, they have to lip sync for their life. Okay, so they do the lip sync. I remember that.

If you lose the lip sync, you are told to sashay away. Ah, so you're eliminated. If you stay, Rue says, Chante, you stay. Ah. So when she's telling people to sashay away, it means get lost. Yeah, it means get the fuck out of here. Yeah. We appreciate the review. Thank you for the kind words. Ready for the last one? I'm ready.

Okay. This comes from Luca's Power Glove. Title is... Ooh, good name. Fun and entertaining. Five stars. I'm not in line at Subway because I listen to the LGTC episode about Jared Fogle. Wow. They fired him. Don't worry. It doesn't work there anymore. Not a moment too soon. But if we listen to each other's an old-timey podcast, you'll find you're never too far apart from the context of the historical story being told to you by a non-threatening boy and the Grace Kelly of podcasting. That was a goofy movie reference. Yes. Powerline song Eye to Eye. Which I think should be illegal.

Illegal? The song or the movie? To sneak Disney lyrics into this podcast. This is kind of a Trojan horse situation. Did I Trojan horse you? People are saying like... Like did I hide my love for Disney? And then we marry and I was like, check out this goofy sweater.

I think that if I'm being totally honest, the red flags were there. and I ignored them. Oh. I'm not actually a Disney adult. Yes, you are? No, I'm not. Okay. What do you consider a Disney adult?

You. Can you be more specific, please? You're trying to act like you're not a Disney adult because you're not one of those people who like goes to Disney World all the time, all dressed up. Yeah, that's what I would consider a Disney adult. What about a grown man who enjoys Disney? Yeah. That's not a Disney adult. I don't think so.

That's just a grown man that enjoys Disney. Norm, can you sing all of the songs in a goofy movie? Yes. No, anybody else but you. Tell us the last time you watched a Disney movie. Ooh. He doesn't want to admit it, folks. Oh, I watched Angels in the Outfield last week.

Oh, my God. Norm, you're a Disney adult. That's a live action movie, though. That's not a cartoon. Does that still count? It does. It's a good movie. You're a grown man who loves Disney.

Bada Bada boom. There we go. So, you know, I was wearing a goofy sweater in our latest Instagram or one of our latest Instagram posts. And people are like, yeah, look, he's full-blown Disney adult. Look at that goofy sweater. Yeah. And I do just want to say that like that actually belonged to my grandfather, but I was

happy to get it. You're trying to make loopholes for yourself. You're right. I'm sorry. We're going to cut all this. No, we're not. We're going to keep it in. You're trying to, oh, well, I wasn't the one who purchased it originally.

But I do wear it a lot. I love it. You're right. Nope. I'm going to fully own up to it. I love that goofy sweater. I'm going to wear it all the time. Uh-huh.

My grandpa loved goofy. Yes. He had goofy tattoos. He was obsessed. What did he like so much about goofy? Well, one, he's incredibly sexy. That's not. single father,

okay, great dad, what's not to love? Sure. I remember one time when we went up to visit, it was that morning and we were all getting coffee

and I went to go get a mug from the cabinet and I just picked a random one and your mom came like rushing over and she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And she put it back and handed me a new one.

I had grabbed your grandfather's goofy mug. Yeah. Which was apparently a prize possession that only he could drink from. Yeah, there were a lot of rules in my grandparents' house. Unspoken rules that only a select few knew about. It's like a secret society. A secret society that is very strange. I guess all secret societies are.

Do you remember when we were staying with my grandparents and my grandparents? and my grandpa was concerned that we were going to eat all of his pot brownies. Yes. I mean, if we'd known there was pot in the brownies, maybe I would have. My grandparents had some interesting quirks. Yeah. Those all the reviews? That's all I got for you, Big Boy.

Sorry, I don't know why I called you Big Boy. Shall we wrap this up? Let's wrap it up. Okay. You know what they say about history? History hos, we always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from, Be Free or Die, the amazing story of Robert Smalls Escape from Slavery to Union Hero by Kate

Limeberry and Gullah Statesman, Robert Smalls from slavery to Congress by Edward Miller, Jr. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, our slash old-timey podcast.

Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. She is the gorgeous Kristen Pitts-Koruso. I go by Gaming Historian, and until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio.