An Old Timey Podcast - 46: Robert Smalls: An American Hero (Part 5)

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

The final chapter of Robert Smalls’ life was eventful, and, at times, frustrating. He gained and lost government appointments. He won and lost political races. He weathered attacks on his character and attacks on his constituents. Through it all, he used his intelligence and agility to battle a system that tried – and failed – to take him down.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Billingsley, Andrew. Yearning to Breathe Free: Robert Smalls of South Carolina and His Families. Columbia: University of South Carolina Press, 2010.Lineberry, Cate. Be Free or Die: The Amazing Story of Robert Smalls’ Escape from Slavery to Union Hero. St. Martin’s Press, 2017.Miller, Edward. Gullah Statesman: Robert Smalls from Slavery to Congress, 1839-1915. University of South Carolina Press, 2008.Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear you, hear you, you are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Normie C. And whatever happened to that douchebag? It's Kristen Caruso. I don't know who you're talking about, but on this episode, it's the finale of my series on Robert Smalls. Wow. I'm so excited. This has been a fantastic series, and I hope you don't screw it up by making a really bad last episode. Thank you, Kristen. You're welcome. Can we remind who are you talking about with a douchebag? Is this a line from a reality show that I don't know?

No, this is me auditioning for every reality show. These are just the fun one-liners that I can come up with at any time about anybody. What reality show would you want to be on if you could be on any of them? Oh, God. I don't know. I just know that I think I would be really great in the confessionals because I would say very mean, hilarious stuff that I would later have to apologize. apologize for. And the rest of the cast would be like, what? She was always so quiet when we were in a big group setting. That is true. You would say some evil shit in those confessions. Evil. More like

hilarious. I mean, they would be funny, of course. Yes. But yeah. Not for the victim of the crime. Absolutely not. Yeah. I had always envisioned you on Big Brother. Oh, I would hate that. Why? To be on video 24-7, be stupe. in there with Alpha Bros. Hard pass. Although me with Alpha Bros. That would be great TV. It would be. I'll tell you that. You'd be smacking them down. Oh, God. Anyhow. Maybe like, what's up Kristen's butt? Why does she act like that? I don't think you spend a lot of time around Alpha Bros. I don't think they talk quite like that. Oh, maybe 20 years ago. Yeah, that sounds like a May 4 TV movie from 1997. Yeah, that's it's part of my spec script for lifetime. Norm, I got to tell you,

you something. What? Our niece is coming over for a sleepover in mere hours. You've told me this episode is a meaty boy, which means we got to get rolling. Okay, let's do it. You got a Patreon plug for me? Yes. Okay, so here comes the best Patreon plug you've ever heard in your whole damn life. La la la la la la la la. I know I just said it has to be quick and then I made up a little song. But okay, at the $5 level on our Patreon, guess what you get? You get a monthly bonus episode. video form, hello, you get to look at us. Oh my gosh, aren't you so lucky. Oh, at that level, you also get into our Discord to chitty chat the day away. People say it's popping like a bubble wrap dolphin in there, and they are right. But wait, what's that? You want more

perks? We got them for you. At the $10 level, you get all that. Plus, you get to participate in our monthly trivia, which is very fun. Yeah. You also get, I realize when I said it's very fun. It sounded a little defensive like it's not actually any fun. Let's not overthink this. Let's just tell the people what they'll get. I'm thinking about it though. But I'm also thinking about other perks like early, ad free video episodes of this podcast. Every darn episode, baby, what are you going to do with yourself? You're going to watch them and you're going to enjoy them. You're also going to get 10% off merch and oh, and a card and stickers signed by us. I'm surprised. izing myself with all these benefits and perks. Come get them before Elon cuts them. We do political commentary on the show.

That's right. We receive federal funding for an old-timey podcast. I hope they don't catch us. How was that pretty good? Great job, Kristen. Thank you. Oh, and at this point, I should mention we are going to drop a promo for another podcast that we love dearly.

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You can find Live Laf Lassany on Apple, Spotify, or wherever. you listen to podcasts. And now we're back from the plug. Doodoo! Do dole-loo! Well, Kristen, since we are kind of on a time crunch. Yeah. We're not on a time crunch.

Don't worry. I'm worried about it, baby. Now, we'll get through this. This is a media episode, but... Listen, if you need me to talk fast, I just took my ADHD pill, and I've got iced coffee, I've got iced tea, some water to level me out. I'm raring to go. I want to learn about Robert Smalls, although this is probably of a

a bummer of an episode, huh? A little bit of a bummer. Great. I'm drinking wild strawberry crystal light with filtered water. It is the purest crystal light I've ever had. You're like the fanciest boy in 1989. Yeah. Linda Evans would be so proud of me.

You know she used reverse osmosis. Oh, absolutely. Okay, so this is the finale of my series on Robert Smalls, but before we get into it, Let's recap the last episode. Woo! Kristen, we learned that Robert Small's political career took off. He became a state senator in South Carolina, and then he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives.

In Congress, Robert Smalls fought for land distribution for poor farmers, new public buildings in his hometown of Beaufort, improvements to the Navy Yard in nearby Port Royal, and more. But his greatest battle was convincing the federal government to keep federal troops in South Carolina, because they were badly needed. As white Southern Democrats kept losing elections, violent terrorist groups like the KKK became more and more prevalent.

They frequently harassed and intimidated black voters across the state. Things got particularly bad in the summer of 1876 when a violent group known as the Red Shirts went to Hamburg, South Carolina, and massacred six members of the local black militia. Sadly, that violence worked. federal and state efforts to stop it were lackluster, and this violence threatened to kill progress made from Reconstruction. But the death knell of Reconstruction ultimately came from the 1876 presidential election. Republican Rutherford B. Hayes won the election, but only after an elections commission reviewed votes in several states.

It was the slimmest of victories, and Democrats were furious about it. They promised to raise hell. Rutherford B. Hayes may have had a cool-ass name, but he had a dumb-ass idea. He agreed to withdraw federal troops from the South in exchange for Democratic support, and that meant Reconstruction was now over. Robert Small's seat in the U.S. House of Representatives was now in jeopardy. His Democratic opponent, George Tillman, challenged their election results. And because the Democrats now had a majority in Congress, the odds were not in Small's favor.

But things got even worse for Robert Smalls back in South Carolina. The new Democratic administration set up an investigation committee to go after Republican politicians. And in 1877, they charged Robert Smalls for accepting a $5,000 bribe when he had served as a state senator. This politically motivated trial wasn't exactly fair. The prosecution used shady witnesses and questionable evidence. Any appeal to move the trial to federal court was denied. And in the end, Robert Smalls was found guilty of accepting a bribe. He was sentenced to three years of hard labor in the state penitentiary.

The conviction would badly damage Robert Small's political career. But he wasn't about to give up on everything he worked so hard to secure. And now, the thrilling conclusion of my series on Robert Smalls. Kristen, any thoughts before I begin? I'm thoughtless. Okay, well, then I'll jump right into it. You're a blank slate, baby. Okay, so Robert Smalls had been sentenced to three years of hard labor.

He was released on bond and he immediately appealed the verdict. And then in December of 1877, Robert Smalls went back to Washington, D.C. to continue serving as a congressman. Holy shit. And his conviction was kind of the talk of the town. Of course it was. Robert Smalls did see a glimmer of hope, though, because his Republican colleagues asked the House Judiciary Committee to investigate the Trump.

trial because they wanted to know if the trial had interfered with Robert Small's work as a congressman. But the House Judiciary Committee ruled that it didn't because Congress wasn't actually in session when the trial took place. Why were they asking that question? Well, they were trying to help them out. And that was one way they could. If that trial had been deemed interfering with his ability to serve, then it could have been retried in a federal court or something like that. Okay.

Okay. And then Robert Small's got more bad news. In the summer of 1878, the Congressional Committee on Elections had finished reviewing the election from two years ago between Robert Smalls and George Tillman. Two years ago? Yeah, it takes them a while back then to review this shit. It's kind of weird. Their timing and schedules for sessions is not like it is today. Okay.

So it took like a year and a half to review the election results. So here's the arguments. George Tillman claimed that white southerners were too intimidated to vote because federal troops were standing guard at polling places. White Southerners were too intimidated? Yes. And he believed that intimidation is why he had lost the election. Robert Smalls countered that actually it was black voters who were being intimidated because they were dealing with a surge of violent terrorist groups like the red shirts, the rights, Clifel clubs, the KKK, Nanny McPhee's Sowing Club, the baseball club, you know.

Yes. Robert Smalls also pointed out the discrepancies between registered voters and the actual amount of votes. They were way off in heavy Democratic counties. Of course, there was another major factor in the election committee's decision. It was a Democratic majority. So, Kristen, what do you think they decided? I don't want to talk about it.

Okay, I will. The Elections Committee declared that federal troops across South Carolina had intimidated Democratic voters. And therefore, George Tillman was the rightful winner of the 1876 election. Black people were literally being murdered. Mm-hmm. True statement. Were white people being murdered? Yes, but not to the extent black people were being murdered. So black people were being murdered trying to go to the polls?

Is that what you're saying? Or, I mean, white people were? I don't have specific examples, but I did read instances of, yeah, white people being murdered in retaliation. Again, not at the scale or organization where white people were murdering black people, but it did happen. It just you can't really compare, you know. Uh-huh. Yeah. We can't both sides it, is what I'm trying to say.

Sure. We can say it really sucks that I got a paper cut, but your broken arm is probably. worse and needs more medical attention. Exactly. Very good. Hey, not so fun fact. Oh, no, my brains. So when I was researching this episode, I learned that George Tillman was the older brother of Benjamin Tillman.

That was the guy who took part in the Hamburg Massacre and he has the statue up in the South Carolina State House. He became a senator and then the governor. Oh. So, yeah, George Tillman was the older brother and Benjamin Tillman. and the younger brother. They're both involved in South Carolina politics. Celebrated murderer.

It's a celebration. Norman, that is inappropriate. You put that confetti cannon down. Listen, listen, you put up a fucking statue of the guy? They might as well blast that song while they dance around it. Yeah, sure. What do you think a monument is, you dumb asses?

Wow, calm down, Norm. You're a non-threatening boy. Not today, baby. Those damn Tillman boys are at it again, destroying civil rights. So yeah, the elections committee said, actually, George Tillman won the 1876 election. But here's what's interesting, Kristen. That investigation was moot. Because for whatever reason, the House of Representatives decided not to call a vote on the issue. So the Elections Committee does an investigation and says, yes, we think George

Tillman was the winner. But the House actually has to vote on if they want Robert Smalls replaced or not. Okay. They never called a vote on it. Maybe because the evidence was terrible and they couldn't get enough votes from Northern Democrats. Uh-huh. Maybe it's because the 1878 elections were literally a few weeks away. Right.

So who cares? Sure. Either way, Robert Smalls got to keep his congressional seat. For a couple more weeks. Let's talk about that election of 1878, Kristen, because, wow, things sure had changed down in South Carolina. In our last episode, we learned that Southern Democrats had regained control of most of the Southern state governments. And with their new power, they impeached and charged political opponents with crimes. They wrote new laws that discriminated against black Americans. They declared that

being white was cool again. That's how a white man plays his guitar. That's my favorite thing on the soundboard. Shout out to Stone Cold Steve Austin. But this wasn't just contained at the state level, Kristen. Even nationally, protection for the rights of black Americans dwindled. Thanks to this really interesting part of government called the Supreme Court. So I want to briefly go over a few key Supreme Court cases that changed a lot of stuff. Number one, the 1873 Slaughterhouse case. In Louisiana, they had passed a law giving more.

one company the exclusive rights to run slaughterhouses in the state. And so a group of 400 butchers sued the state, claiming that the law had violated the 14th Amendment. And if you're wondering what? The 14th Amendment. Yeah, wasn't that about citizenship? It was. So in that amendment, it says, quote, no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. Oh. So the butchers were arguing that that slaughterhouse deal denied them the right to earn a living. Okay. Which violated the 14th Amendment.

Well, the Supreme Court said, well, actually. The 14th Amendment only protects rights to federal citizenship, not state citizenship. Come on. Hmm, interesting. So that means states can make up their own laws on who they deem a citizen or who has rights in that state? Oh, shit. Hmm, I don't see how that could be a problem. Number two, the Cruxshank case of 1875.

Excuse me? Cruxshank case of 1875. At a polling location, in Louisiana, a white mob massacred a group of black men. The federal government charged several of those men for violating the 14th Amendment. Section 1 states that no one can, quote, deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. That case went to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court overturned all the convictions against that white mob. And they said, well, actually, the 14th Amendment only allows Congress to go after states for violating the 14th Amendment.

Not individual citizens. Only the states can go after citizens. Oh, my God. So, yaha boys, that basically gave violent terrorist groups in the South free reign. No one was going to stop them. And these were the days before you could be charged with a hate crime. So, yeah, yeah, you're good. Number three, the 1876 case known as the United States versus Reese.

A black man in Kentucky named William Garner was not allowed to vote due to a failure to pay a polling tax. Polling tax? It was a thing back then. William Garner said he tried to pay the tax, but the tax collector refused to meet with him. William Garner sued, saying that Kentucky was violating the 15th Amendment, his right to vote. The Supreme Court took a look at the case and said, actually, it's only a violation of the 15th Amendment if they deny your vote based on your race. But you failed to pay the tax.

Oh, give me a break. Why do you think they wouldn't take his money? We don't need to worry about that. Okay, great, great. And wow, wouldn't you know it, Kristen, that ruling over? open the floodgates for super discriminatory laws to keep black people from voting. Literacy tests, poll taxes, residency requirements. As long as it didn't specifically mention race, it was fair game.

Yeah, the Supreme Court is teaching politicians at the state level how to discriminate. Yes. So, Kristen, based on everything I've just told you about these Supreme Court cases, how do you think the election of 1878 went for Robert Smalls down in South Carolina? Terribly. Why do you look excited? You've done it, Kristen. Congratulations.

You're excited for me for having a correct answer. Yes. It means you're listening to me. Yeah, it was pretty fucking bad. The Republican Party was completely demoralized. They didn't even put up a candidate for governor in South Carolina. Wow. The average Republican voter felt defeated.

Well, and scared shitless, I'm sure. Mm-hmm. Some black residents discussed colonization efforts like moving to Liberia or moving out west to start a new life. Many black residents moved within the state to Beaufort. It was the safest area for the black population. Yeah. Others switched political parties just to stay safe. It's better than being fucking killed.

Robert Smalls had a tough uphill climb to win this election. He had to deal with bullshit voting laws. And that bribery conviction certainly did not help. It was an easy slam dunk talking point for his Democratic opponent, George Tillman. Robert Smalls also had to deal with violent terrorist groups, like the red shirts. At an October 11th rally, 500 mounted red shirts appeared, shooting pistols in the air, hooting and hollering. Robert Smalls couldn't even give his speech to his constituents because he was constantly being interrupted by curses and booze. So, Kristen, you may be shocked to learn that Robert Smalls lost the election of 1878 to George Tillman. It was the very first time Robert Smalls lost an election. I am not surprised by it because I... I was being a little sarcastic thing. I'm picking up on everything you're throwing at me, baby.

Hell yeah. And with that loss, every single South Carolina rep in the U.S. House was now white. What an incredibly fast turnaround. No kidding. Robert Smalls wisely decided not to contest the election. Yeah, what would be the point? Mm-hmm. He would run again when the time was right.

After the election of 1878, President Rutherford B. Hayes ate a shit sandwich. and admitted that he fucked up. He said, quote, I am reluctantly forced to admit that the experiment was a failure. Free elections in the South are an impossibility. Well, yeah, they are when you fuck it all up. Yeah.

I hate how much I sounded exactly like Angelina. I loved it. That kind of turns me on, actually. Okay, that's enough. Yeah, fucking Rutherford. Sound like a teddy bear. I was actually a little like, okay, when you said he admitted his failures. Right.

But then you read the quote and it's, oh no, this thing is actually impossible. Boy, what a cop out. Yeah. What a cop out. Yeah. It just can't be done. I don't know why. A real mystery.

I would like to eat healthy, but it's just impossible. It honestly, the first thing that came to my mind was. is that onion headline whenever there's a mass shooting. And it says, no way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens. Oh, that sucks. And it gets funnier every time they do it. Sadly, yes. Yep.

Okay. So Robert Smalls lost the election of 1878. But he did get a different kind of victory that year. The U.S. Supreme Court heard his case between him and the former owner of his home at 511. in the Hark Street. William de Trieville. If you recall history hose, Robert Smalls had purchased his home at auction because William De Treville failed to pay property taxes. De Treville sued stating Small's claim was invalid because there was a war going on at the

time. Well, the Supreme Court ruled in Robert Small's favor. Wow. They said that the government did have the authority to confiscate property from a failure to pay tax, even during war times, and that Robert Smalls was the legal owner of his home. And this ruling was not just a victory for Robert Smalls. It was a victory for any black American who had purchased property in a similar way. Yeah.

Because it happened quite a bit during the Civil War. Well, sure. Yep. The white folks were fleeing. Ooh! Get out of here! Which, imagine that logic. We're at war.

Therefore, I'm not paying my taxes. Sound logic. Uh-huh. Okay. So, that issue is now behind Robert Smalls. but he's ready to tackle another major problem. That bribery conviction, because he was facing three years of hard labor,

and he got his first chance at redemption in April of 1879. That's when the South Carolina Supreme Court finally heard his appeal. Robert Small's argument was largely the same as his trial defense. His case should have been heard in federal court. The jury selection was irregular. None of the evidence directly connected Robert Smalls to that $5,000 check. And the state Supreme Court rejected. his appeal. Wow. So Robert Smalls appealed again, and this time the case was going to go to the

United States Supreme Court. But then something interesting happened. A couple weeks later, on April 23rd, 1879, the new Democratic governor of South Carolina, a man named William Dunlap Simpson, he granted Robert Smalls a full pardon. Uh-huh. It was a bizarre end to the whole ordeal. No, it's not. Why did Robert Smalls get a pardon from the Democrats? Kristen, where are your theories? Okay, my theory is, first of all, their case against him was terrible, absolutely terrible. I agree. And now there's this threat that it's going to go on a national stage. I think the other thing is it's the same thing we see in sports.

So you had talked about how like, yeah, the evidence against him was terrible. But at the same time, it does seem like perhaps he was doing what all of the South Carolina politicians were doing at the time, which was accepting bribes. Correct. And that's where it gets dangerous. If everyone else is doing it, including the Democrats, then the Democrats don't want a big spotlight on this. There's a threat that they could get taken down too, right? Yeah, possibly.

Oh, don't be so coy. Don't be all cute about it. Oh, I like being cute for you. Okay, that's enough. Okay. So here's what happened. This was another backdoor deal between President Rutherford B. Hayes and the Democrats of South Carolina. The federal government had cases pending against some white southerners. Some were for election fraud. Some were for violent attacks like the Hamburg massacre. And so the Democrats offered a deal. Drop those cases and we will pardon all of your Republican friends. I hate this. And so president. This is negotiating with terrorists.

President. We're out here murdering people. We're out here framing people. Uh-huh. And don't hold us accountable for the actual terrible stuff we did. And in return, we won't further punish people we have framed. So President Rutherfordby Hayes agreed to the deal. And so Robert Smalls was pardoned.

I think Hayes thought those federal cases weren't going to go anywhere. and so that's why he agreed to do it. What do you mean not go anywhere? He felt like they weren't strong enough cases to bring to federal court, I guess. And so he thought, well, at least I'll pardon some of my buddies if I do it this way. Anyway, here's what's interesting about this deal. Sources are kind of split on if Robert Smalls was involved in the negotiations or not. Some claim he was part of the negotiations.

Others claims he had no idea and that he was blindsided by this part. pardon. But either way, after the pardon, Robert Smalls denounced it. He claimed he never asked for one and that he was completely innocent and that he knew he could clear his name if he could argue in front of the United States Supreme Court. And he said this pardon only made him look more guilty. Yeah. Robert Smalls went so far as to demand that the case still be heard, but the Supreme Court removed it from their docket. So I'm not really sure. Again, conflicting sources. What's the evidence that he was involved in these talks? There was a report that he went to Columbia, South Carolina, like a week before the pardon and met with the Democratic governor.

But again, like other sources say, no, he didn't, and he had no idea about it. I don't think he knew. What do you think? I don't really know. Well, I know you don't really know. Well, here, I can see it both ways. I can see him going to negotiate, you know, being pardoned because he's like, fuck this. I was wrongfully convicted.

And, yeah, let's negotiate a pardon. What power does he have in that situation, though? If they're negotiating, what can he offer? That's a good point. It's an excellent point from a beautiful woman. I guess the whole thing is about like, because he claimed he was blindsided. He had no idea. It's possible he did know.

Yeah. And maybe they were negotiating and he knew about it. Okay. Not to say that he had any power in it, though. Or maybe he did. We don't know. Maybe he had some dirt on some Democrats. Not that it would help anyway, but.

I think even if he did have some dirt on some Democrats, which he probably did. I mean, you're around folks. Yeah, there are a lot of people. But, like, think of the known dirt on some of these guys. Hey, this guy participated in a murder. But now there's a statute to him. So, like, people, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what dirt they've got.

And this is, Robert Smells, at this point in time, was a guy who'd lost his election. He'd been convicted. He was facing three years. He didn't have a lot of power in this. Yeah. You know, I never, it's funny when I was researching this. I never thought, what the hell would he have? Right.

He has no leverage. So, yeah, even if he was there, it's not like he was part of the negotiations. No, I can't imagine. That just doesn't make sense to me that he would be part of the negotiations. What does make sense to me is being mad about a pardon. People sometimes get mad when they have to do an Alford plea. Do you know what that is? No.

It's like, okay, you see it sometimes in cases where somebody's been found guilty of a crime. And they're like, I'm innocent, I'm innocent, and they're, you know, in prison, Still, I'm innocent, I'm innocent, I'm innocent. They're not getting out on parole because they're not like, okay, I did it. They just maintain, I'm innocent, I'm innocent. And, you know, sometimes it's like sometimes the only way to get out is to do an Alford plea, which is I think it's like, it's not technically saying, okay, you caught me. I'm guilty. but it's kind of close and it's kind of saying,

I acknowledge that the state has all of this evidence against me. And a lot of people who are innocent and who have done all this time really struggle with that. And I think that makes sense because they want to, they want their name cleared. Sure. And I can see Robert Smalls being like, on the one hand, sure, it's nice that this three years of hard labor is no longer hanging over his head. But yeah, fuck a pardon. Fuck a pardon. You know, I think we've solved it.

We've solved this mystery, Kristen. You're welcome. Good job. And, you know, you're saying we, but I think I did a lot of the heavy lifting here. Yeah. I don't know why. I didn't think of that. Thanks for bringing that up.

You're so sweet. Well, for real, because, like, you know, you read two sources. And maybe my head was just so jumbled. I was just like, well, one source is saying this. But the other is saying this. And I was just like, I guess I'll present both sources. I have a theory about some of the academic. So you.

do a lot more of the academic research. Like you read a lot of academic books on these sources and obviously that's very good. But Oh, hot take incoming. I think sometimes when people are writing very serious things for a very serious audience

for very serious reasons, they miss the human stuff. So like, I think it was last week's episode where you talked about what could Robert Small's reasons have been for inviting his former enslavers to the home that they used to own, but now he owns, and saying, sure, I'll pay

for everything. Come on down. And you listed several reasons, which to me struck me as such academic stuff. Was he just a wonderful guy doing a charitable thing? Did he perhaps have, you know, a kinship with these people? Did he truly love them? Listen, listen, I just like to be thorough. No, no, no.

And I said all of the above. Yes. I thought it was all those reasons. But like the reasons you listed, I have no issue with the reasons. But I thought it was a real omission. And it's the kind of a mission we make when we're doing the serious academic work for serious academic people, which is that can you fucking imagine how delicious it would be to have been in Robert Small's position? He's enslaved. Slavery ends.

He fights and claws his way to the top. He's making money. And now he is in the position to say to his former enslavers, oh, I see you've fallen on hard times. Come on over. That is delicious. It would be delicious. And it's just that human part that I think is missing.

And that, you know, in this discussion with like, okay, if he met with the governor, did he know? Did he know? To me, the whole did he know or not, that feels like people who are trying to figure out like, well, if we say he didn't know, then does that imply that he didn't have any power? And we don't want to say that about Robert Smalls. He was an amazing man. So we want to say maybe he did know, even when it makes no goddamn sense to say that. Or it makes a little goddamn sense. Yeah, I mean, you're right that in a lot of historical writings, they don't talk about the human aspect of historical figures. They kind of just read sources and, like, write down what they say, and they don't, sometimes historians don't, like, analyze the evidence. I think they do analyze it. I just don't think they analyze it through the petty bitch lens. Ah, the petty bitch lens.

Yeah, the petty bitch lens. If anybody was a petty bitch, they would know immediately, oh, there's another option for why you invite your former enslavers to the home that you now own. That drop of water that you just drank out of your water glass, well, I guess it was crystal light. Yeah. It formed the most perfect droplet on the end of your nose. It was kind of beautiful. I know. It was heavy. Folks, this is just one of the benefits to being on the $10 level on Patreon.

You get to see the crystal light drip off Norman's nose. It gets real sexy. in here on the video. Okay. Okay, I'm sorry. I got all high in my team. No, I'm glad we talked about that because, yeah, that's one of those things where you hear. You got to have the petty bitch lens.

Well, you do hear different sources? And I think it's good that we talk about, hey, what do you think? Which source do you think is right? Now, what if I have a dumb opinion? Do you regret that? I don't think you had a dumb opinion. I think you were spot on, actually. And I honestly, I'm like kicking myself for missing that.

Okay, well, next thing you ask me, I'm going to come at you hot with a a really dumb opinion. Okay. So, Robert Smalls had won the fight for his home. The bribery charges were officially behind him. Kind of. So in 1880, Robert Smalls decided to fight for his congressional seat again. And his opponent was again, Democrat George Tillman. You know, despite his election lost two years earlier and the bribery charges, Robert Smalls was still very popular among his constituents and the Republican Party. A journalist at the time commented that Robert Smalls, quote, seems to have their unlimited confidence. Would it lead him to victory in the election of 1880?

Probably not. When the results came in, it looked like George Tillman had won the election. But the numbers were really strange. George Tillman received 23,3,325 votes. Robert Smalls received 15,287 votes. So George Tillman won by around 8,000 votes in a district where there were twice as many black voters as white voters. The math was not mathin, Kristen. And Robert Smalls thought the same thing.

So he decided to contest the election results. And they're like, in two years, we're going to get an answer to you. Yes. But luckily, this go-around, he had Congress on his side because the Republicans had taken back a majority in the U.S. House of Representatives. That election year, the party gave Rutherford B. Hayes the metaphorical boot up the asshole. Oh. They wanted a new candidate. Norm, you said up the asshole.

Right up the asshole. That is so specific. The boot went inside. Okay. We heard you the first time. How big is the boot? Is it a little novelty one? No.

It's a big novelty one, like the kind Uncle Sam wears, with a big old point at the end. Poor Rutherford. It slid right in. Poor Rutherford. Yeah, the Republicans wanted a new candidate. Rutherford was a wet noodle, Kristen. He made too many concessions to Democrats. They wanted someone with a big old sack of nuts.

Okay. And that man was dark horse candidate James Garfield. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And I know you love James Garfield. I love James Garfield. Yes! James Garfield embodied the American dream. He grew up dirt poor. He worked as a janitor, a carpenter, a teacher. He rose to the rank of general during the Civil War. He was elected as a congressman from Ohio. He opposed slavery. He supported Reconstruction. He supported equal rights for black Americans. He loved lasagna. Sorry, that was the cat. Great joke, Kristen. Thank you. Thank you.

James Garfield was a good-ass candidate, and he won the election of 1880. And with it, Republicans took back the U.S. House, which meant that Robert Small's chances of winning the contested election were good. The elections committee looked into the results. And wow, you're not going to believe this. Clear evidence of voter fraud and intimidation on Election Day. What? One voting precinct with mostly black residents just refused to. open on election day.

That'll do it. Yep. Sorry, we're closed. Yeah, we're closed on the one day we should be open. Yes. Bye. Those redshirt rifle clubs were patrolling local polling places, scaring voters away. Apparently, one ballot box was made comically tiny, which prevented people from casting

votes. Okay. Kind of like a fart toilet. That is one of our favorite sketches. I think you should leave where they replace the toilet with a toilet that has a hole that's only big enough for farts. Right. Farts only. You always get me for this shit. Okay.

When I say I hate everything about this, but I do like this one thing. And rightfully so. What do you like? Of all the tactics for voter intimidation. A lot of it is just fucking terrible. It's horrible. I hate it. And I hate all voter intimidation.

It shouldn't be happening. but great stance to take there creating a teeny tiny ballot box that no one can vote that's kind of funny it is kind of funny it is kind of funny yes i i just want to be super clear i don't support it i hate it i really really hate it but of all the tactics that one it is a humorous way to prevent people from voting sorry we can't fit any more ballots in here you should have to go vote somewhere else You can only see this under a microscope. Yeah, I had to write that one down. That was funny.

And also, some votes were just straight ignored. It's a little worse. I just spat everywhere. I'm sorry. Okay, so with all of this evidence, the Elections Committee declared Robert Smalls, the actual winner of the 1880 election. The corrected vote count was 14,393 votes for Robert Smalls, 12,904 votes for George Tillman. we go. The evidence must have been overwhelming because this time around the House did vote on the contest and it passed 140 to 5. Every Democrat abstained from voting in protest. How many Democrats

were there? I don't know the exact number, but they didn't have a majority, so it really didn't matter. Oh, okay, okay, okay. I thought maybe they hadn't learned their lesson from several years prior where they're like, we don't like how this is going, so we just won't participate in politics. And then they saw how it went. They went, oh, shit. Yeah, that's not a good idea. George Tillman was pretty pissed off. I'm sure he handled it great.

No, he didn't, Kristen. Sorry. Before he left Congress, he made a long, racist speech to the chamber about how black politicians, quote, lack profound analysis unless crossed with white blood. Ew. But Robert Smalls got in there, and he was like, Shut the hell up, bitch. And he took...

I'm so glad you brought back the Dr. Phil sound. Yeah, he said... Shut the hell up, bitch. And he took back his congressional seat to get your ass out of here. Said bye. Mm-hmm. It is weird to say that after you've lost. What, that black politicians or they don't...

They're not smart enough to be congressmen. I'm just saying if I was in a contest and it was first. revealed that I won. And then it was revealed that I had cheated to win. And then the real results came out and it's like, oopsie, I lost by quite a bit. I don't think I would get out there and be like, the people who beat me fair and square are dumb. They're bad at this. And that you used a comically tiny ballot box to try to prevent people from voting. Oh. Kristen, it was a different time.

Things moved very slowly back then. It had taken the elections committee a year and a half to sort through that contested election. By the time everything was settled, the election of 1882 was only a few weeks away. This is pure bullshit, and I'll tell you why. On my old decrepit rotting podcast, we would do old-timey cases. Yeah. And the thing that always struck me was there would be a murder. A week later, tops.

There'd be a trial. Right. And then the following Tuesday, death by electric chair. I mean, it was ridiculous. No time for nothing. Must go. But you're telling me, with something like this that actually is time sensitive, they just took their sweet time. Back then, like the elections were in the fall.

And if a congressman lost, he still had to serve from like November to March. And then he left. Oh, that sucks. Yeah, they don't do that anymore. Well, yeah, for obvious reasons. Yeah. That's like when you hear about people breaking up but they still live together. Exactly.

Yeah, that's where the term lame duck Congress came from. Lame duck sitting there. Okay, so now we're going to talk about the election of 1882. And for this election, Southern Democrats had to come up with some new strategies because they knew they were committing fraud and sometimes they were not getting away with it. That's a shame. So, how about we do some good old-fashioned gerrymandering? For those unfamiliar, oh, thank God.

Jerrymandering is when a government manipulates the boundaries of electoral constituencies in their favor. Not so fun fact. Oh, no, my brains. Gerrymandering has been around since the beginning of the United States, and it's still used today. Hot scorching tape, Kristen, I think it's really fucked up and should be illegal. Well, you're just like me with your hot scorching takes. Norm, I have to say on behalf of myself and the other dumbasses listening, thank you for defining gerrymandering.

It's one of those words that I was like, I know we don't like it, but I couldn't provide a definition. So thank you. Do you know what I'm talking about with gerrymandering? Well, yeah, you provided the definition. Okay. Well, let me tell you, Kristen, the South Carolina Democrats gerrymandered the hell out of that state. The map looked absolutely ridiculous. It did not follow county lines at all.

Joe, we'll show a picture. It was terrible. So there used to be five districts in South Carolina. Now there would be seven districts. And the Democrats basically lumped a large percentage of black voters into one district. Of course. The seventh district. And that is where Robert Smalls lived. Yep. The 7th District contained 25% of the black population. That is a massive number for voting purposes. Yes.

And so it earned the nickname the Black District. So for the Democrats, it was essentially a concession. They were basically guaranteed victory in six of the seven districts, and they didn't have to commit election fraud to do it. Well, they just committed it. And then the 7th District was basically guaranteed to go Republican. And the Republican Party cried foul. They said the 7th District looked like a boa constrictor on the map. It like wrapped around.

You know those bullshit gerrymandering. Oh, yeah, yeah. And Democrats were like, what? This is just standard operating procedure. This is what we do all the time. So in the election of 1882 for the 7th District, the Democrats did not even put up a candidate. So whoever the Republican nominee was would run unopposed. It was a guaranteed spot in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Could we pause? Yes. Do you think this is a good idea? Drag queen name, Jerry Mandering. Is that good? I think that's a great drag queen name. I think it's a great wrestler name. If there are any drag queens out there listening and they need a name, I don't know if that's good, actually, or if it just sounds funny to me now.

But Jerry Mandering, I kind of like it. Jerry with an eye, obviously. Even if you were running for office, if your name was jerrymandering, that would be funny. What it? Yeah. Well, it's no teeny tiny ballot box. And what if he campaigned on ending jerrymandering, wink, wink, would you believe him? His name's jerrymandering?

You know, I fall for a lot of stuff, so maybe. I promise, I'll stop it. I'm like, this guy is a straight shooter and I like it. I like some of Jerry's ideas. I hope he doesn't do exactly what he said. he's going to do. In his name. Sorry, continue.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, Republicans run unopposed in the 7th District. So that's good news for Robert Smalls, but not so fast. This time around, Robert Smalls had some competition because the Republican Party in South Carolina was ready for some change. They had kind of grown tired of being seen as the party of corruption. They wanted new, younger politicians in office. Robert Smalls was seen as kind of part of the old guard.

How old was he at this point? Let's see, 1882, he's 43. Oh, ancient. Yeah, adjusted for inflation, Robert Smalls was 1,339 years old. I'm an old man. And so, like, the last three elections Robert Smalls was in, he had either lost or contested. And those contests took up valuable time and resources, and that meant things weren't getting done for Republican interests in the state. Well, that's not his fault.

I know, but what there's... No, I hear what you're saying, and I completely respect the idea of we want some new folks in here. Yeah, and there was also that bribery case against him. And sure, he had been pardoned, but Smalls could never completely wash away the stank of it all. Okay. But it wasn't just his age. The media was attacking his figure, too. What?

In a very unflattering article, a journalist described Robert Smalls as, quote, Short and very fat. And when he rolled rather than walked down the street. Oh, come on. One could not but think of a comet revolving through space. That is an insane thing to say about. One could not help but think of a comet rolling through space. Revolving through space.

Oh, my God. They said he rolled down the street instead of walked down the street. I apologize. That is brutal. Right? Brutal. Mm-hmm. Not that his size would affect his ability to serve, but to sum it up, the Republicans wanted someone new.

My God. I was expecting a lot of things. Uh-huh. When you started this story, racism? Sure. Check. A lot of isms. Did not expect fat phobia of epic proportions. Being compared to a comet. Yeah.

Damn. Yeah, brutal. How did Robert feel? You did not like that one bit. Really? Was he sensitive? At that description of him, yeah. I don't know.

Sometimes I don't know if you've been through so much in life that, like, you know, comments can, I said comets. I almost said comets can roll off your back and I thought, I don't want to say roll again because I said rolling down the slip. Yeah. What am I thinking? It never feels good to be compared to a comet. No. So when it came time to pick a nominee for the 7th District, Robert Smalls faced competition from two colleagues. Isn't it kind of funny that in their fat phobia, they didn't, like, do a play on his last name?

So you're coming up with some new material for the journalist. I'm just saying, hey, I got a better idea. You know how he's called Robert Smalls? There was lower hanging fruit to be picked. What if you called him, Robert Not So Smalls? More like Robert Biggs. Am I right? Here's what you got to do.

Man, you'd fit right in, Kristen, with that Democratic newspaper. Oh, thank you. Yep. The Confederacy had good ideas. Okay. And here's the best way to insult Robert Small's body. Oh, God. Okay.

So Robert Smalls faced some competition from two colleagues. The first was another black Republican named Samuel Jones Lee. Apparently, Samuel Jones Lee served in the Confederate Army during the Civil War. Lee said he had followed his enslaver into the army. army and fought in several battles. There's no official record of his service, but there is actually a photo of him, believe it or not. After the war, Lee entered politics as a Republican and became the first black Speaker of the House in South Carolina.

Wow. But then he got caught up in corruption. Lee was indicted for issuing fraudulent checks, but the Democrats granted him immunity for testifying against his Republican colleagues. Okay. Lee may have had his own corruption scandals, but he was a lot of. was younger than Robert Smalls. He was smart. He was black. All big deals in the 7th District. Was he thin? Describe his body. He actually was thin. Okay. I didn't think about that.

Maybe this, we want a thinner guy running. This is so ridiculous. For some reason, I think of fat phobia as a newer thing, but clearly, twas not. T'was not indeed. The other candidate was a white Republican named Edmund Mackey. Okay, well, good to have you, Edmund, but get out of here. Mr. Mackey was kind of a unicorn in South Carolina. He was a white guy. He was from South Carolina, and he was a Republican. Okay.

Democrats considered him a skellywag, which we talked about in our last episode. Sure. Mr. Mackey had previously served in the South Carolina State House, M.K. As well as the U.S. House of Representatives, M.K. Edmund Mackey was well-liked among the black residents of South Carolina. He fought hard for equal rights. His wife was black. That was kind of a big deal at the time.

Well, hell yeah. So at the nomination convention, Republican delegates began casting their votes on who would represent the 7th District, and it promised to be a tight race. However, early on, it became clear that Robert Smalls was probably not going to secure the nomination. But Smalls remained stubborn. he declared that the nominee had to be black. This was the black district, but no candidate seemed to capture a clear majority. As the nomination process dragged on, Samuel Lee accused Edmund Mackey and Robert Smalls of colluding against him and paying for delegate votes. Things were getting really heated between everybody.

Finally, on the 247th ballot, that's how many times they voted. Oh my God. Robert Smalls decided to concede. Okay, yeah, I'm honestly, I was having feelings about this. What kind of feelings were you having? And I, okay, I'll start with a caveat. Okay. I know I'm being a bit of a douche and I'm not in his position and all the things, okay?

Pre-douching, okay. But if you know you're not going to win. Right. And you feel strongly that the person who wins this needs to be a black man. Yeah. which I totally respect, support. You've got to drop out and you've got to publicly and enthusiastically support the other black candidate. That is what you have to do if that's truly a priority.

So here's what happened. Okay. Robert Smalls decided to concede, but he made a backdoor agreement with Edmund Mackey. He said, hey, whoever gets less votes on this last ballot, that candidate must throw their support behind the other. And so Robert Smalls received less votes. He withdrew his nomination and he supported Edmund Mackie who won the Republican nomination. You seem to have some feelings about this. Well, I mean, I do.

Okay. So this is interesting. So Edmund Mackie and Robert Smalls were colleagues. They had served together on the House of Representatives. So I think they were probably closer than Robert Smalls was with Samuel Lee. Sure. I think Robert Smalls was pissed that Samuel Lee testified against Republicans in those investigations. Yeah.

The Democrats claimed, and I think this is definitely false, but I think it's worth mentioning, they claimed Robert Smalls didn't support Samuel Lee because Robert Smalls wanted to be the black politician. He didn't want another black politician to like take his place, which was just bullshit smear in my opinion. Okay. But, yeah, I think that's why Robert Smalls supported Edmund Mackey's because they had worked together before. They were probably friends. And I think Robert Small's, yeah, was pissed at Samuel Lee for testifying against the Republicans. No, that's a shitty thing he did. Yeah.

For sure. But I bet he was in a pretty bad position where he didn't have a lot of choice in that. Probably. It's complicated. I mean, yeah, yeah, it is complicated. And yet all of my opinions are black and white, which is a beautiful thing. Incredible. Samuel Lee was pretty pissed about the whole thing. I mean, clearly, having a black person in that position wasn't the most important thing, clearly.

No, and I think he may have just said that to try to garner support for his own nomination, but when it became clear that, like, the other delegates didn't really care about that. You know what I'm doing right now? I'm believing everything a politician says line by line. I'm forgetting this guy's a politician. He is. But I mean, this Edmund guy, honestly, he sounds pretty great. He really does sound pretty great. He's a good guy. But I think it makes total sense that in this district that represents the majority of black voters, like, yeah, half a black candidate. Sure.

And honestly, I wouldn't, oof, I wouldn't completely dismiss what the Democrats said about him. Really? Only because this is something that you sometimes see with women where like, and I'm thinking of years ago where like, you know, only one woman was allowed to, you know, get into the boardroom or get into this other level. Yeah. Sometimes the woman who would make it to that level would not be the one who would support other women coming up because of the accurate feeling that there is one. And it's mine. Well, there's one spot and I want to keep it. Yeah.

That's not the one woman's fault. It's not Robert Small's fault that that's the dynamic. But like, that is kind of the dynamic. They've gerrymandered the fuck out of this. There can only be one, maybe two. So yeah, I don't want new people coming in. I want it to be me. Yeah.

It's like I'm the bad boy of YouTube. And I'm going to remain the bad boy of YouTube. Norm, you've got to start doing some actual bad shit if you want to... Oh, I've done some bad shit. Wait for my tell-all episode of an old-timey podcast. Oh, wow. I will reveal all the terrible things I've done on YouTube. Oh, God.

Okay. Well, great. You've got a lot of competition. Those Paul brothers. They got nothing on me, Kristen. Just you wait. But do you see what I'm saying? No, I totally do.

Now, like I said, all those things came from Democrat newspapers and many, many Storians were like, oh, that probably was just a smear thing. Yeah, okay. To make him look petty or something. Okay. So Samuel Lee was pissed about this, and he was like, see, I told you they were colluding against me. And so he ran as an independent against Edmund Mackie.

But it didn't work. Mr. Mackey, Mekle won the race, 18,469 votes to Samuel Lee's 10,017 votes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So Robert Smalls would not be. returning to Congress, but before he left office, he did vote on one major piece of legislation. The Pendleton Civil Service Act. Are you familiar with this?

No. So this act required a merit-based system for federal employment rather than the previous spoils system. And this became a hot bill in Congress after President James Garfield was assassinated by Charles J. Gatot, who was a, quote, deranged office seeker. Yes. Yeah. He, uh, fun fact about him, he tried to join some like hippie-dippy, dippy orgy having community and they just wouldn't have him. No one wanted to have sex with him. Damn. Talk about a hit to your ego. Future topic. At an orgy, no one wants to have sex with you? Yeah. Fuck, that sucks.

No, that's, that's, that's, that's pretty rough. I think a fun series for me would be, and I don't mean this in like a creepy way, but presidential assassination. Oh, absolutely. When I would get to Abraham Lincoln, you would actually me the entire time. So I might have to skip the biggest assassination of them all. I know a lot about that one. Uh-huh. Yeah. Anyway, Robert Smalls voted against the Pendleton Civil Service Act.

He was one of the few congressmen who voted against it. Why? So he believed that the legislation prevented black people from working in the federal government because they instituted some pretty extreme education requirement. to get a job with the federal government. And so he thought it was not fair. Yeah. However, the bill ultimately passed.

And with that, Robert Smalls headed back home to Beaufort, South Carolina. Sadly, tragedy awaited him. That summer, on July 28, 1883, Robert Small's wife, Hannah, passed away. She was 58 years old. Robert and Hannah had been together for over 25 years. They had first met in Charleston working at the same hotel. and together they had escaped to freedom on the planter boat. With their newfound freedom, they raised the family in Beaufort, South Carolina.

By all accounts, they had a wonderful life together. Hannah mostly kept private, though. She did not enjoy the public life that Robert lived as a politician. Hannah Smalls was buried at the Tabernacle Baptist Church in Beaufort, South Carolina, located at... Oh, yeah! 901 Craven Street. like you're craving some Cheetos.

C-R-A-V-E-N. How did you know exactly what I was craven? 9-01 Craven Street. Let me see. That's a church? Oh, yeah, that is a church. Mm-hmm. Oh, God.

Man, I love the architecture in South Carolina. Built in 1840. Tell me a place that does porches better than South Carolina. You can't tell me a place. Oh, God damn. Those trees are so cool. I love the weeping willows out front. Wait, were you looking at the same thing?

901 Craven Street, Newford, South Carolina. Yep. You see a spire, tabernacle Baptist Church? I mean, it does not look like a church at all, honestly. I might not be looking at the right place. Yeah, I don't think you're looking at that right place. I might be looking at someone's lovely home. Oh.

Listen, I don't know what went wrong because I just do everything. Google's got the wrong street view. Beautifully. Yeah, because if you look in the National Park website, it shows it. You know, I did think this looks more like a home, but the entrance looked like it was ready to handle a bunch of people coming in for Sunday's surface. So I really was convinced that I was looking at a church. But this is... That's weird.

The address, yeah, the Google map shows the wrong house. Well, the world is full of mysteries, but this is a very nice-looking church. Mm-hmm. Did you know, hang on, there's a Reconstruction Era National Historic Park right nearby? Yeah, and that was created during the Obama administration. Norm, when are you going to take me on a romantic trip to Beaufort? I'd love to go back to Charleston. Beaufort's not too far away. We should make it happen.

I'm saying you should make it happen. Oh, okay. I don't want to live. I want to go to all the places we talk about. I know. I know, but here we sit, not go into any of them. Well, I got to finish this episode, Kristen. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Okay, okay. Continue. After Hannah's death, Robert Smalls grieved. His daughter, Sarah, was living with him and helped out around the house. It was a tough time. Yeah. But six months later, in January of 1884, Robert Smalls was called back into the political arena. Why?

Because Edmund Mackey, the new congressman of the 7th District died. unexpectedly, from paratonitis, a-bursed appendix. Oh, that seems like a real rough way to go. Yeah, he was 38 years old. Oh, God. So that meant that that U.S. house seat was vacant, and there were only two potential candidates, and that was the two men who had lost the previous nomination, Samuel Jones Lee and Robert Smalls. So Samuel Jones Lee had actually left the state.

He took a federal job in Alabama. And so Robert Smalls was the only guy left. Wow. So he ran unopposed. And on March 31st, 1884, Robert Smalls was back in Congress, the only black delegate from South Carolina. Holy shit. What a strange turn of events. Yeah.

Yeah. Just when I thought I was out, they pull me right back in. Honestly, when you said six months later, after this thing about mourning his wife, I was like, oh, God, now he's getting married to some, you know. But no. Nah. All right, all right. 1884 was also an election year. And when the Democrats heard Robert Smalls was the Republican nominee, they were like, hmm.

You know, he's only in Congress because Mr. Mackey died, okay? I hear people don't really like Robert Smalls anymore. Maybe we can actually win this race in the 7th District. So they put up a nominee, baby. Give me a break. It's one district that you're never going to get. Leave it alone. They're not going to leave black people alone for a long time.

So I'm sorry to burst your little bubble. They put up a nominee in the 7th District. It was a Harvard graduate, Confederate veteran, and Beaufort native, William Elliott. William Elliott was honestly not very gung-ho to run against Robert Smalls. Well, yeah. He was like, well, look, fellas, I'm from Beaufort, and Robert Smalls is really popular and well-respected. I don't think I can win. And the Democrats were like, well, that's too bad because we nominated you.

Well, William Elliott was right. Robert Smalls won the election of 1884, 8,839 votes to Elliot's 4,164. Oh, no. In the 49th Congress, Robert Smalls had a few notable moments. Let's take a look. First, he opposed a measure that would allow railroads to provide separate accommodations for white and black passengers. Yeah, fuck that. Robert Small said he had been on those trains before, and they were anything but equal. The only solution was full integration.

But sadly, the measure passed. Next, Robert Smalls argued that black servants in the U.S. Naval Academy deserved a raise from $20 a month to $25 a month. The bill passed. Then he demanded anti-discrimination laws for restaurants in Washington, D.C. Colleagues ruled his amendment out of order, claiming that there were already laws prohibiting such behavior. Robert Smalls replied, if there is such a law, it is constantly violated.

Finally, Robert Smalls advocated for his constituents. He pushed for a brand new library in Beaufort. Improvements to the Port Royal Naval Station and relief funds for local farmers who crops has been destroyed by a flood. Woo! However, there is one piece of legislation Robert Smalls presented that caused more of a stir than any of the others. And it kind of came back to bite Robert Smalls in the future.

Okay. Robert Smalls introduced a relief bill to provide a widow named Maria Hunter a $50 a month pension. Maria Hunter was the wife of General David Hunter. If you recall from episode two of our series, Kristen, General David Hunter was a Union General who came down to South Carolina, declared enslaved people free,

and then he started recruiting black soldiers all without permission from the president or from Congress. Oh, I do recall that. Don't know if you remember that badass. Yes, yes. You know, he's kind of like James Garful because... He got big balls. Oh, yeah.

That's Nikki Minaj telling us he's got big balls. Okay, so yeah, Congress went apeshit over that. They put a stop to all of it, and as a result, General David Hunter was reassigned. Well, Robert Smalls was a big fan of General David Hunter. He never forgot that heroic act during the war. Sure. And so when General Hunter died in February of 1886, Robert Smalls wanted to make sure his wife was taking care of financially. While Democrats stood and opposed the relief bill, Robert Smalls questioned their opposition, stating, can it be that there is a secret or sinister motive, either personal or personal?

political, can it be that this is your revenge for all of his patriotic conduct? Mm. Eventually, the relief bill passed, both the House and the Senate. But in a stunning twist, the new Democratic president, Grover, Cleveland... What did he do? Vetoed the bill. Wow, what a wild thing to do. Right?

A little widow's pension? Yeah, Robert Smalls couldn't be. believe it. He admonished President Cleveland, stating that it, quote, exposes the hypocrisy of the assurances for the colored man by striking a blow at the nation's brave defenders and the colored man's best friend. However, it wasn't as dramatic as it may have seemed, because in reality, Maria Hunter had actually already been approved for a $50 pension around the same time the relief bill passed. So President Grover Cleveland was like, oh, this bill is not necessary anymore, and so he vetoed it. Huh.

And then Robert Smalls lashed out at Grover Cleveland, and Grover Cleveland was like, what the fuck, dude? Was it just a matter of information traveling so slowly and... Possibly, yeah. Yeah. It's unclear of Robert Smalls knew that her pension had been approved. I don't think he knew. I don't think he did either. But overall, him lashing out.

I do think it speaks to how frustrated and tired he was of the constant roadblocks, and that veto was like a breaking point for him. Well, yeah, when you're constantly getting screwed over, and the people you care about are constantly getting screwed over, yeah, there's going to be a time when maybe you aren't actually getting screwed over, but you're still going to be mad as hell because it just feels like more of the same. Yeah, he's tired of getting screwed didily ued. Well said, Norm.

So that little spat with President Grover Cleveland would have repercussions during the election of 1886. It would mark the end of Robert Small's career as a congressman. Oh. The 7th District, aka the Black District, had previously been considered safe for Republicans. But not anymore. President Grover Cleveland was like, Robert Smalls needs to go. Wow. And he threw his weight behind the Southern Democrats.

It would be a rematch of the last election, Robert Smalls versus William Elliott. The cogs of the Democratic machine were churning. Powerful Democratic politicians like former Governor Wade Hampton campaigned against Robert Small, stating that the 7th District had been, quote, disgraced on the floor of the House of Representatives by an ex-convict. Newspapers wrote hit pieces, saying that Robert Smalls was, quote, an ignorant Negro who has no more claimed by reason of intelligence to represent the wealth and intelligence of her white citizens, then a Congo chief has to represent the cultured constituency of New York or California. Then there were rumors that the Republican Party was in turmoil over internal arguments among delegates,

asking if Robert Smalls was, quote, black enough to represent Beaufort. However, historian Edward Miller contends that, while there may have been talk of that, it didn't affect the election. He said, quote, black people did not often sacrifice their race's limited opportunities for office over that question. Sure. Yeah. If you want to know the real reason Robert Smalls lost the election of 1886, it's a tale as old as time. It's called voter fraud. Oh.

Democrat William Elliott defeated Robert Small's 6,493 votes to 5,900. 161 votes. The results were shocking, even two Democrat newspapers. One newspaper wrote the election was, quote, an unnecessary victory in the Black District, an unwise and absurd proceeding. It will be said that the Democrats stole the election. Oh, wow. Yep.

They will not only charge it, but they will prove it. Yeah. Robert Smalls would ultimately contest the results, but the elections committee had a Democrat majority again, and they ruled against him. after the ruling Robert Smalls was interviewed by the Washington Post, and he said, Black disenfranchisement is the new normal. He said, quote, elections are all in the hands of the Democrats. Thus, the congressional career of Robert Smalls officially came to an end. He considered

running again in the following elections, but ultimately the Republican Party convinced him to step aside. Instead, Robert Smalls campaigned for a young up-and-comer within the party, guy named Thomas Miller, who was 10 years younger than Robert Small's. And thanks to Robert Small's efforts, Thomas Miller ended up winning the next election in 1888. Of course, disenfranchisement and voter fraud would continue in South Carolina. And here's a not-so-fun fact for you. Oh, no, my brains. In 1896, Republican George Murray would become the last black congressman from South Carolina for almost 100 years.

Wow. The streak ended in 1993 when Democrat James Clyburn won a congressional seat, and he is still serving today. Wow. That just goes to show not only how established disenfranchisement was, but how the political parties changed over 100 years. Let's talk about that, Norm. Well, I'll get to it later. Okay, okay. I have a little section on it.

Don't worry. Okay, so after his defeat in the election of 1886, Robert Smalls was looking for some work. He's unemployed. That's when he came across the perfect job. He wanted to be the customs collector at the port of Beaufort. Seems perfect. It paid really well.

$1,000 a year. Adjusted for inflation, $35,000. But he also got 3% commission on imports. Oh, wow. Okay. Very expensive. Yeah, pretty lucrative. He could work on the water again, something he really missed.

The job was also in his hometown of Beauforts. Probably way less stressful than being a politician. However, this was a federally appointed position. So Robert Smalls needed to drum up support for getting an appointment. He got letters of recommendation from old-time Civil War buddies, Republican colleagues, and even Judge Samuel Melton, who was his defense attorney during the bribery trial. Samuel Melton had recently served as the U.S. District Attorney of South Carolina, so he had some pull. newly elected Republican President Benjamin Harrison decided that Robert Smalls was a great fit for the job

and should be rewarded for his many years as a loyal Republican. So in January of 1890, Robert Smalls was confirmed as the collector of customs at the Port of Beaufort. And he excelled at that job. Both Republicans and Democrats praised his work ethic, his honesty, his integrity, his business sense. 1890 was turning out to be a good year for Robert Small. Not only did he get his new job as the customs collector, but he also found love again.

He married a Charleston school teacher named Annie Wigg. Kristen, I'm sorry to tell you this. What? Annie Wig was 18 years younger than Robert Smalls. No, Robert. She was the same age as one of his daughters. Gross. I bet his daughter loved that.

Oh, yeah. She's going to love it. Do you remember the SNL sketch, your second wife? That's one of my favorite sketches. Meet your second wife? Classic sketch. Two years later, Annie gave birth to Robert Small's last child, William Robert Smalls, in their home on Prince Street. For the next few years, things were relatively quiet for Robert Smalls.

He worked as the customs collector. Annie stayed home and raised young William, who they called Willie. Robert Smalls continued to be active in Republican politics in South Carolina, even though the party was much smaller now, thanks to the Democrats taking over. And then in 1894, Robert Smalls got a shock when he was relieved of his duties as the customs collector in Beaufort. So why was Robert Smalls fired? Because Democrat Grover Cleveland became president again. Oh.

He was the first president to win non-consecutive elections. Man, he held a grudge, didn't he? Yeah, he did. So he got rid of Robert Smalls? Can you believe that? Honestly, I can't believe that he was so mad in the first place over this. He already doesn't like Robert Smalls because he's a Republican. And Grover Cleveland's a Democrat.

Right. But then he's like, yeah, you're talking shit about me, even though I didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, I'm coming after you now. Okay, but he was only talking shit about Grover Cleveland because he didn't have all the information. I know. That sucks. I know. That sucks.

But surely if you're the fucking president. you can get over that, right? Surely being precedent. What if you hate black people? Well, okay. Like Grover Cleveland. Jeez. Uh, yeah. So he was no longer the customs collector. But right after he was relieved of his duties, the Republican Party of South Carolina came to Robert Smalls and they asked him to do one last job.

What was it? Come out of retirement and do one last job. He was going to represent Buford at the 1895 South Carolina Constitutional Convention. Now, you history owes might be wondering, hey, wait a minute, I've listened to every episode of this series on Robert Smalls, sometimes five times. Didn't Robert Smalls already do this in 1868? Didn't South Carolina come together and write a constitution? Why are they writing a new constitution? Well, you see, the 1868 Constitutional Convention was set up to give black people equal rights as citizens.

And now the 1895 Constitutional Convention was set up to take all of those rights away. Oh. Yes. The push for a new Constitution was led by the new governor of South Carolina and future U.S. Senator Benjamin Tillman. Remember him? I do remember him. He was in the rifle clubs, Hamburg Massacre. He's got that statue up today.

We remember this bitch. Benjamin Tillman is what I would call extremely racist. Even members of his own party were like, whoa, dude. Benjamin Tillman's nickname was Pitchfork Ben. Oh. In fact, when Benjamin Tillman ran for governor, many Democrats split and nominated their own candidate, a guy named Alexander Haskell. And then Robert Smalls endorsed Alexander Haskell. and he was like, while it is repugnant to my feelings as a Republican to advise my people to vote for any Democrat,

yet in this emergency I must advise them to do anything that is legitimate to bring about the defeat of this arch enemy of my race. Because the Republicans didn't even put up a nominee for governor. So he was like, please vote for this Democrat, not this one. The lesser of two evils, we get it. Unfortunately, Benjamin Tillman won in a landslide. As the governor, Benjamin Tillman's number one priority was for South Carolina to write a new constitution. He wanted to make sure black people could not take part in the political process. So on September 10, 1895, in Columbia, South Carolina, 162 delegates from across the state came together to write a new constitution.

Out of those 162 delegates, 156 were Democrats. All of them were white. Six were Republican. All of them were black. including Robert Smalls. So you have six black Republicans against 156 white Democrats. This just sucks. It must have been a really weird thing to be a part of.

Like what a hostile environment to be in. You're just going to feel awful. You're going to feel awful the whole time. You're going to feel awful afterward. Because you're not, I mean, you'd have to totally redefine what a win is in this situation. Because you're not going to win. You're not going to go into this environment and, like, convince someone you're a human who deserves basic rights. No.

So how do we define a win? We make it out alive? Like, I don't know. I think you're going to love what Robert Smalls does. Okay. Mm-hmm. So he and his colleagues knew there's basically nothing we can do. Right, right.

We're going to rewrite a constitution to strip away our own rights. Like, that's fucking crazy. But Robert Smalls said that he could cause some trouble. And that's exactly what he did. So the first vote was on a chairman for the convention. A guy named John Gary Evans. And everyone voted yes, like, yay, except Robert Smalls. Why did he vote no?

Because fuck them, that's why. Okay. Okay. And then the convention voted to increase their own pay for all the delegates. Oh. And Robert Smalls, once again, was the only no vote. I love it. Why?

Because fuck it. That's why. Yeah. And next to the convention. tackled their biggest concern. Taking away equal voting rights. It should come as no surprise that Benjamin Tillman was put in charge of the suffrage committee. The convention chairman told the committee, it is your duty to fix your election laws

so that your wives, your children, and your homes will be protected and Anglo-Saxon supremacy preserved. Ah, that's racist. They aren't even trying to hide it anymore. You know what I was about to say is I actually can appreciate that they're at least just saying it out loud. Do you respect it? No. But there's something to be appreciated about, yeah, this is just out in the open. Yeah, I guess so.

So the Democrats had to be really careful with these voting laws because hilariously, many of them affected poor white people as well. Hmm. So here's what they came up with. It was very similar to what Mississippi did. Number one, voting was for male citizens only. Sorry, ladies. Number two, voters have to pay a poll tax. Number three, voters had to have lived in the state for two years.

Number four, voters cannot have committed certain crimes. Which ones? So I didn't see the list, but apparently murder was less. left off the list. Wow. Makes you wonder how many Democrats had been charged with murder the past 30 years. Well, hadn't Benjamin Tillman been charged? I don't know if he was actually charged.

Okay. He definitely bragged about taking part in that massacre. Yeah. Anyway, number five, voters would have to either read and write a section of the Constitution or understand it when it was read to them. and an election official would determine who understood it or not. Oh, cool. Cool. And then number six, voters had to have paid property taxes worth at least $300.

Oh, wow. That's a very interesting one. Yeah. So, ridiculous laws. Robert Smalls introduced his own suffrage plan. He removed the literacy and property requirements. It allowed registration to any minimum. male over 21 without distinction of race, color, or former condition.

But the Democrats were like, yeah, if we enact those laws, we would never win an election. So, sorry, we're not going to do that. They're also like, Robert, we said at the beginning of this meeting that it's about white supremacy. Aren't you listening? You're too busy voting no on pay raises. So Robert's small suffrage plan may have failed, but his next proposal, termed the convention on its head. After dealing with voting rights,

the convention moved on to interracial marriage. The original language was very simple. White people and black people, including mixed-race people, could not be legally married. It seemed like everyone was ready to move on after that until Robert Smalls proposed an amendment to that law. He was like, hey, what if we took it a step further?

Any white person who lives or cohabitates with a black person is disqualified from holding office, including their children, and those children must take on their white father's name, and they will inherit any of his property when he dies. Oh. Oh. So that was his proposal. That is incredible. Way to punch them all right in the dick.

Punched him in the dick. So Robert Smalls pitched it as a way for white people to purify. themselves from black people. Yes. Yes. I agree. You guys are so pure. Right. You don't, and in fact, I'm taking it even more seriously than you're taking it. Yep. So here's this plan. So Southern Democrats got real nervous about this idea because they're like, oh, we have a lot of people in our party or who vote for our party, who are mixed race, but they live as white people. And they have secret families.

Catch my drift. Well, no, he's talking directly to the men in the room. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Who have either raped, enslaved women or are raping the women who are working in their home now, not under slavery. He's talking directly to them. It's not about we've got mixed-race voters. No, they're recognizing themselves, too.

Okay. They say we have a lot of people in our party who would be affected by this big time. So the Democrats quickly tried to table the measure. They were like, no, no, no, we're not going to consider it. But lo and behold, Benjamin Tillman stands up and he's like, objection. Benjamin Tillman was like, we're not tabling that. I actually think that's a really good idea.

Oh, fuck. Oh, my God. He was like, you know what? I agree with Robert Smalls. I don't think black people and white people should even live together. Okay, here we go. And if there's even a single drop of black blood in somebody, They cannot hold office and they can't get married.

So Benjamin Tillman's brother, George Tillman, pulls him aside. And it's like, buddy, you don't understand what's happening here. He's like, you need to understand how really, really bad that would be for the Democrats. He said it would, quote, raise hell in South Carolina. The Democrats quarreled about that amendment late into the night. as Robert Smalls looked on in silence and smiled. This is how I know the real reason that he invited his former enslavers to his home. This is how I know the reason he bought his former enslaver's cousin a brand new suit.

Sure, all the good reasons, but also the delicious petty ones. This is amazing. What a wonderful way to play this. It's brilliant. Benjamin Tillman had fallen right into Robert Small's trap. He knew that Benjamin Tillman was so racist, he would have passed an amendment that would have severely hurt and disenfranchised many of his own voters and politicians in his party. Ultimately, the amendment did not pass. This is epic trolling.

But what Robert Smalls did made headlines across the country. Yeah. One newspaper said Robert Smalls had thrown eight. proverbial bomb in the chamber. Another newspaper considered the amendment, quote, a brilliant moral victory of a parliamentary minority. It is not Negro ignorance, but Negro intelligence that is feared. It was indeed just a moral victory.

The six black Republicans did what they could to try and preserve some form of equal rights. But ultimately, the Democrat majority prevailed. In fact, most of the 1895 Constitution was largely the same as the 1868 version, minus the voting laws. Okay. On Friday, November 1st, 1895, as the convention wrapped up their work on voting rights, Benjamin Tillman gave a fiery speech. He declared that these new voting laws were needed because radical Republicans had been out for revenge after the Civil War. They were trying to keep the white Southerner down. Benjamin Tillman also said, Black Republicans.

were the worst offenders, and he even singled out Robert Smalls in his speech. Well, yeah, I mean, he has to because Robert Smalls embarrassed the shit out of him, basically set him up to prove how dumb he was in front of all of his little friends. He pulled his pants down, exposed his little ding-dong, and spanked his ass red. Yep. I'm sorry I wasn't expecting the redness. after Benjamin Tillman's speech, Robert Smalls asked to speak. And it was then that he delivered the most powerful words he ever spoke.

I'd like to read to you an excerpt. My race needs no special defense. For the past history of them in this country proves them to be as good as any people anywhere. All they need is an equal chance in the battle of life. I am proud of them, and by their acts toward me, I know that they are not ashamed of me. For they have at all times honored me with their votes. I stand here the equal of any man. I started out in the war with the Confederates.

They threatened to punish me, and I left. I went to the Union Army. I fought in 17 battles to make glorious and perpetuate the flag that some of you trampled under your feet. Innocent of every charge attempted to be made here today against me, no act or word of yours can in any way blur the record that I have made at home and abroad. It was indeed a powerful speech. Even Democrat newspapers commented that

no one can fail to be impressed with Robert Small's earnest protestation. Sadly, Robert Smalls didn't really get to enjoy that moment fully. After his speech, he received a message from his daughter, Sarah. Robert's wife, Annie, was sick and would probably pass soon. Robert Smalls left the convention and rushed home to Beaufort to be by her side. And as he held Annie in his arms, her last words were, take care of my son. Annie Wiggs-Smalls died on November 5, 1895.

She was buried at the Tabernacle Baptist Church next to Robert's first wife, Hannah. You don't like that, huh? I don't know. I feel a little weird about it, but I guess, you know, yeah, I don't know. Go ahead. Okay. So despite this loss, Robert Smalls returned to the convention a week later.

He wanted to make sure he could help push through an approval for South Carolina State College. It's an HBCU known today as South Carolina State University. It was one of the few victories for the black delegates at the convention. On Wednesday, December 4, 1885, the Constitutional Convention wrapped up. All delegates were asked to sign the new document, and Robert Smalls refused. He wanted no credit for the horrific violations of equal rights. Yeah.

One Democrat commented, hey, if he ain't going to sign the Constitution, don't pay him. And Robert Smalls was like, go ahead, I don't give a shit. I'll walk home before signing that document. It was Robert Small's final, fuck you to a clearly corrupt and racist government that had taken over his beloved state. Not so fun fact. Oh, no, my brains. Those voting laws would not be repealed until the civil rights act. of 1964.

By the way, that 1895 Constitution is still being used today in South Carolina. However, it has been amended to hell and back. After the convention, Robert Smalls returned to Beaufort to raise his son, Willie. His daughter, Sarah, stuck around to help out.

They say bad news comes in threes. Robert Smalls lost his job as the customs collector. He lost the battle for equal rights in South Carolina. His wife, Annie, passed away. But maybe good news comes and threes as well. As the 19th century came to a close, Robert Smalls got some much-needed wins in his life. First, in 1897, Robert Smalls finally received a pension for his service during the

American Civil War. For years, he had fought for a pension due to his service as a pilot in the Navy, but Robert Smalls was considered a civilian contractor. Therefore, the Pension Bureau said he didn't qualify for a pension. Robert Small's Republican colleagues in the House finally proposed a relief bill, and it recommended that Robert Smalls be granted a pension of $30 a month, the same as a retired captain in the Navy. That relief bill passed, and Robert Smalls received that pension for the rest of his life. And then the next year in 1898, new Republican president, William McKinley, took office, and he made Robert Smalls the customs collector at the port of Beaufort again. And Robert Smalls would keep that job until 1913.

Boy, the presidents who got assassinated really loved Robert Smalls, didn't they? Damn, you're right. They kept killing them. And then finally, in 1900, Congress decided to review Robert Small's claim that the Navy had undervalued the planter boat when they acquired it during the Civil War. Okay. A bill passed that gave Robert Smalls an additional $5,000 for his efforts. adjusted for inflation they gave Robert Smalls $190,000. Wow!

So they finally fairly compensated him. Boy, if you were to ask me, what do you expect to happen next? Getting right on that money from the planter boat was not even in the list. Like 30 years later, too. Yeah, yeah. From there, Robert Smalls lived a quiet life in Beaufort. He enjoyed routines. Yeah, I do love a routine.

He woke up every morning at 7 a.m. And he enjoyed a very carb-heavy breakfast. Grits, pancakes, biscuits. Jesus, Robert. Why don't you just swallow a brick? That's insane. Grits, pancakes, and biscuits. After breakfast, he would take off for work at the Port of Beaufort.

Sometimes his son, Willie, would join him and swim off the docks as Robert watched from his office window. At noon, he would walk to the local drugstore for lunch. He'd get a sandwich with a malt shake. And then he'd go back to work. At 4.30 p.m., he'd go home to his beautiful house at 511 Prince Street. He had made improvements throughout the years. He added a second-story porch. He added more rooms in the back of the house.

You know, that reality show where they redid his house. It was great for him, Kristen. It would have been great, yep. He added a well and a pump in the yard for fresh water. He installed this newfangled invention called electricity. Oh, weird. For dinner, Robert Smalls enjoyed seafood. His favorite was shrimp stew.

Sometimes his other daughter, Elizabeth, and her family would join them for dinner. Elizabeth had nine children. Oh, a lot of grandkids. Afterward, Robert Smalls would retire to the living room to read the newspaper, where a large painting of the planter hung on the wall. Oh, cool. Willie remembered lighting fires in the fireplace with his dad, as he told him stories from the Civil War or all the turbulent times after.

In his free time, Robert Smalls enjoyed six. sailing. He liked horseback riding. He loved swimming. Oftentimes, he would sit on his front porch and drink iced tea, watching his son Willie play with their pet dogs in the yard. Robert Smalls remained involved in Republican politics. At the state level, there really wasn't much that could be done. The disenfranchisement of Southern black voters was working. In the 1900 election in South Carolina, 47,000 Democrats voted. 3,500 Republicans voted. Oh.

That's crazy. Yeah. Nationally, Robert Smalls regularly attended Republican conventions and befriended notable leaders like Booker T. Washington and Teddy Roosevelt. But even then, the party was shifting. White Republican leaders declared that the only way to save the Republican Party was to, quote, remove the odor of black republicanism from the party. Holy. The party's interest was now in big business, industrialists, not the working class.

Hmm. Democrats were really threatened by this shift in Republican policy, and they began campaigning in support of the poor working class. It was the seeds of change that would lead to how we see the Democrats and Republicans today. Robert Smalls was furious about it. He wrote, quote, I believe that the prejudice against the Negro today in this country is because he is improving. For this reason, he is feared. This is the reason why every white man, especially in the South, seems now willing to see him relegated to the rear before he becomes too powerful and strong. In 1913, Democratic opposition finally removed Robert Smalls from his job as the custom. collector in Buford. By that point, though, his health was failing.

Robert Smalls had diabetes, rheumatism, phlebitis, malaria. Rheumatism is like inflammation in your joints. Okay, thank you. I know diabetes. I know malaria. What was the other one? Phlebitis is like an inflamed nerve. Oh, okay.

So probably painful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Robert Smalls had a foot amputated due to his diabetes. And eventually his family had. to move his bed down to the first floor in the living room. Finally, on February 23rd, 1915, at 1.30 in the morning, Robert Smalls passed away peacefully at the age of 75. Wow. His funeral was the largest Buford had ever seen, a record crowd of both black and white supporters. He was buried at the

Tabernacle Baptist Church, next to his wives, Hannah, and Annie. It's hard to put into words what Robert Small's accomplished not only for himself, but for his family and his race during a crucial point in American history. It's very possible that if Robert Smalls had not stolen the planter, he would have been forgotten. But his daring escapades brought him fame and fortune. Robert Smalls could have rested on his laurels. But that wasn't him. He wanted a better life for himself, his family, and for people all across the nation.

despite having no formal education, he jumped headfirst into politics and fought for equal rights in a very hostile environment. And to me, that makes Robert Smalls an American hero. Hell yeah. Robert Small's passing sadly did not make national headlines. Some South Carolina newspapers reported on it with some pretty unflattering remarks. But over the years, as we look back on those turbulent times, the legacy of Robert Smalls has, grown tremendously. A monument was put up where he was buried at the Tabernacle Baptist Church in Beaufort, South Carolina. During World War II, the United States Navy established Camp Robert

Smalls in Illinois to train black sailors. In 2004, the U.S. Army named a vessel, the USA Major General Robert Smalls, the first army ship named after an African American. On March 1st, 2023, the Navy renamed the USS Chancellor'sville, which was named after a Civil War battle. They renamed it the USS Robert Smalls. In 2021, Amazon Studios announced they were making a movie about Robert Smalls. Unfortunately, there have been no updates since then. My one request is that the planter boat can talk in the movie. Oh, yeah. What a great idea. But my favorite update on Robert Smalls is that on August 29th, 2004,

the South Carolina House of Representatives finally passed a bill to put up a Robert Smalls monument at the state capital building. About damn time. This was a bipartisan bill, and I hope to God they just tear down

that fucking Benjamin Tillman statue. Yeah. And they put up Robert Smalls in its place. And that history hose is the story of an American hero named Robert fucking Smalls. That's amazing.

Thank you. Damn. I know this series has kind of taken it out of you, but it's been so good and so fascinating. Yeah, this was a story that, boy, I learned a lot

as I researched. Yeah. You know, him stealing the boat, I had known that story for a long time, but all the stuff after, I was not familiar with it all. So it was really cool

to learn all that. Yeah, I mean, this stuff after is messy. Really messy. You know, what's cool is like, you know, he has a ton of descendants. Yeah. Yeah. A ton. And like I learned a lot about his family. Like his son, Willie, went to the University of Pittsburgh. He got his master's degree at the University of Chicago. He served in World War I as a lieutenant. He lived in Kansas City briefly. Shut up. Yeah. Several members of his family lived in Kansas City for a little bit. I don't know if

are still here. If you're listening, Oh, my God. We'd love to talk to you. But yeah, just what an incredible life, incredible accomplishments, like standing up for what is right. What an incredible man. Well done, Normie C. Thank you. And I've got to say also done in the nick of time, because our niece is going to show up in no time. Oh, you're right. So we should wrap this up.

We should. Great series. Thank you. Thank you, sir. And next week, next week's episode. Everyone, prepare yourselves. You can't possibly be prepared. You know, we've had some pretty incredible guests on an old-timey podcast.

It's true. But nothing is going to compare to this next guest. It's Kristen's father, Daryl Pitts, aka D. D.P. Prepare to be D-Ped. You are going to get D-Ped so hard next week. Do whatever you need to do. To prepare. We've already recorded the episode, and in the episode, he tricks us.

And that's all I'm going to say is that he tricks us. He does trick us. I felt like a fool. Boy, you've not seen smug until Daryl Pitts tricks you with a story. He bragged about that nonstop after we were recorded. Yeah, until eventually we had to kick him out. Yeah, we were like, okay, goodbye. Get out of our house.

He's like, oh, I can't believe I got you to. Legend has it. If you listen closely to the wind, you can still hear my father saying, man, I didn't know if you two were going to fall for it, but you did. You did fall for it. Actually, you put your ear to a Dr. Pepper can. And you'll hear that. He's trying to eat better. He's tried not to do the soda norm, not a Dr. Pepper can. Whatever. I asked him if he's drinking Dr. Pepper. He's like, he likes to cheat every now. Yes. Yes. The diabetes hasn't gotten him down.

That's for sure. Nope. Well, Norm, you know what they say about history hoes? We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from Be Free or Die, the amazing story of Robert Smalls Escape

from Slavery to Union Hero by Kate Lineberry, Gullah Statesman, Robert Smalls from slavery to Congress by Edward Miller Jr. And, Yearning to Breathe Free, Robert Smalls of South Carolina and his families by Andrew Billingsley. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast.

Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, our slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. She is the stunning Kristen Pitts-Karuso. Hello.

I go by Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tudaloo. Tata. and Cheerio. Goodbye.