An Old Timey Podcast - 47: DP Dupes Us!

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

In this *very special* episode of an Old Timey Podcast, we got DP’d. Ahem. By that, we mean that Kristin’s dad (aka DP) took over. He renamed the podcast. He accused Norm of having a dirty mind. Worst of all, he tricked us. (On our own podcast! In our own home! Is nothing sacred??)Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, DP pulled from: “Small Town, Big Con” episode of 20/20“A look back at the Natalie Cochran trial,” by Autumn Shelton for REAL WV“Prosecutors say text messages show Natalie Cochran tried to put some distance between Michael Cochran and his family,” by Jessica Jarrish for WVNS TV “Natalie Cochran convicted of murder after Ponzi scheme," by Isabel Modano for lawyer-monthly.comAre you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Normie C. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold your horses here, Mr. and Mrs. Old-Timey. There's a new sheriff in town. D.P. is in the building. Now, when I say new sheriff in town, that kind of harkens back to the old-timey theme, doesn't it? Yeah, that's true. Well, can you explain a little bit what you mean by D.P. is in town? Well, some of our listeners might not know what that means. They might be worried what's going to happen to us. Yeah.

Okay. I'm Daryl Pitts. I'm Kristen's dad, Norman's father-in-law, did some guest appearances on the old decrepit. What did we call it old decrepit? Rodding podcast, yes. Rodding podcast. I got to go ahead and tell the listeners that the most popular, let's go to court podcast, was one that I did. And you can Google that and find that out.

It wasn't. I don't think it was, actually. On my feed in Google, it said I was. Oh, on your feed. Yeah, on my feed and Google. The algorithm was like, this man is desperate. Let's just make up a story. Okay, so that's a little bit of my background.

But I've not been on this podcast before, but I am commandeering this feed to bring you a fresh history podcast, a new-timey podcast, if you will. Oh. You guys seem to be stuck in the past, man. This is new stuff that I'm bringing to you. And it's interesting and you're going to love it. And we'll get into it. But before I start, I need to give you guys some notes.

Oh, boy. Okay. You haven't really asked for notes, but I'm going to give you some notes. Okay. You call yourself a sexy independent podcast. Yes, it's true. Small independent, sexy podcast. Okay.

You got sexy in there. But I looked at your guests that you've had on this. Judge Judy. Yep. A fine-looking woman. She's 80-something. I don't know whether you would call her sexy because by- By her own admission, they don't pay me to be here for my looks.

They pay me because I'm smart. So you've brought on a guest that is not known for her sexiness, right? Fair. Then last year, you bring on Adolf Hitler. He insisted. Now, not a good... He just came on to talk shit about us. Well, yeah, but when you call yourself a sexy podcast, you've got to have sexy guests.

And this guy wasn't a good looker in his prime. And I can only imagine what he looked like in 2024. You've seen those Leaderhosen picks, though? I've looked at all of them. You've looked at every Hitler photo. Nothing is in the sexy realm. Okay. Then the last guy you brought on, Dr. Hubert Montgomery.

Oh, he's definitely our... Be careful, Dad. Probably our most famous guest, actually. Well, is he sexy, though? Yeah, I'd say so. Okay, I googled the man. He wasn't sexy in his prime. In fact, he's been dead quite a while.

No, he's actually alive. He is alive. I just emailed him the other day. Have you ever actually seen him in person or have you? Didn't you see him on the podcast? Yeah. You video called with him or what you do? Dad, are you revealing that you do not, you're not a patron at the $10 level?

So you have no idea. No, I am. In fact, I got to tell you, patrons, getting the video is the highlight of being a patron. Oh, uh-oh. We slid into a commercial. Oh, a nice little plug there. You thought my dad was going to call us not sexy, which was weird enough. But here we go.

Yeah, go ahead and do a commercial for us. Well, no, I'm not going to do one more piece on this sexy thing. And then we'll go into the... Okay. Sorry to interrupt your material. Finally, now you have a sex. sexy guest. Independent podcasts need sexy guests. Yeah. I'm 67 years old in my prime. I'm bald. I've got heart disease. I'm a type two diabetic. But still, young and sexy good-looking,

actually a Bradley Cooper look-alike. That's what people have said. Who has said that? Patrons and other people on all your social media feeds. Did you ever watch the movie Carrie? I don't think I did. Oh, is that the lady gets the stuff dumped on her head, the blood dump? Yeah, people tell her a lot of lies about, you know, oh. Oh, don't believe, don't believe, you know, half what you hear about yourself. Is what you're saying?

I don't know what made me bring that movie up. I'm not sure. Anyway, continue. Well, no, I think it is time to do a plug for the Patreon because, and let me, my only input is I don't know how much it costs to get the video feed, but whatever level that is, that's where you need to be because I love seeing you two and not only seeing YouTube, but then the added pictures and clips that are in there, hilarious. Shout out to Joe, our video editor.

Joe video editor is doing a great job. But I don't know anything about other benefits, so you guys are going to have to take off and do that ad. Well, for starters, that $10 tier is pig butter investor. That's for people that are investing in the dairy product of the future, pig butter. Yeah, I've heard about it just on the podcast. Now, these tariffs are going to hurt pig but pig butters, pig butter investors, but, you know, we're going to bounce back. We're bouncing back, okay?

Is the pig butter, is it coming from Mexico or Canada? Or where's it coming from? I was going to say, I thought we had local pig butter, norm. I thought it was being churned in our very own backyard. We're getting pigs from all over North America. All over coming in, yeah. Do we want to do a full-blown ad? No, I think this episode's weird enough.

Let's just jump into it. If this is anybody's first episode, they're going to be really confused. Yeah, I apologize for that. So let me go back. I started thinking about, you know, my name's Daryl Pitts, but somehow I got this DP nickname slapped on me that has inappropriate connotations. You gave it to yourself. No, I didn't give it to myself. I have discovered where it came from.

I remembered back in the day when I was first called DP. It was when you were doing a video. No. Senior year of high school. I played on the basketball team, and the PEPSquad would decorate our lockers. You know, they'd put a piece of paper over the locker and write, you know, go DP and all this kind of stuff. So somebody wrote Kill Snakes DP. Now, the reason, and her name is Sue Antrim, good friend of our family, my parents and her parents were a

good buddies. She wrote Kill Snakes DP because my basketball coach, it was negative if you played like you were killing snakes because you were out of control. And he told me, I looked like I was killing snakes one time. She heard him say, killing snakes? Like you're just running all over the place. That's old timey. That's old timey coach. There's no doubt about that. But so I wanted to reach out to her and say, do you remember doing this? is this memory correct? Her response was, I don't know, let me ask my friend who helped me decorate your locker that year. Oh, my God.

And the friend said, I have no idea. So I thought this was the origin of the DP story, but I couldn't get any confirmation on that. So you just have to trust me and my memory. Well, for us, the origin of DP was when we were all in the car together and you were thirsty, and you said you wanted to go down to quick trip. get a DP for DP, and Norman, the immature young fellow that he was, tried to stifle his laughter. Because to him, DP doesn't necessarily mean Daryl Pitts or director of photography or Dr. Pepper. Or Dr. Pepper.

Or, Dolly Parton. No, there's a number of things. You know, Norman, I'm disappointed in you. Why? that you, your mind would go to somewhere in the gutter, somewhere in the gutter, right, Kristen? It's disgusting. It's disgusting. Our family, until you came along, did not live in that environment.

Yeah, we were, we were classy. We were just the classiest people getting DP'd at the gas station. That's right. Yeah, about nothing of it. Sorry to disappoint you. Well, that's okay. Norman, you have overcome that for so many angles. Everything's good now.

we have welcomed you into the family and we know you you're not going to go back there into that gutter and have any kind of dirty jokes or anything. No, he overcame it from the front, from the back, from the side, like every angle. That's right. Yeah. Kristen, you have allowed Norman to pull you down into the gutter. I'm sorry. Well, Kristen was the one that told you to stop saying muffin.

Well, that was disgusting. Okay, everyone, if you don't know, my parents, their lovey little nickname for each other, was muffin for a very long time. And my sister and I, I mean, years ago, tried to get them to stop. We told them, that is slang for vagina. Please stop calling each other vagina. And they didn't believe it. They thought we were dirty.

And God bless the late great Betty White for doing a joke on S&L one time about her dusty muffin. And that finally put an end to my parents calling each other muffin. In front of you. Sure. Whatever it takes. call each other muffin all day long. All day long and the privacy of our, what we do in the privacy of our own home. That's disgusting.

That's where it ends. How long have we been recording? It feels like years. I am ready to get into this. The history hose are waiting for this information that I'm going to provide. Yeah, we don't even know what the topic is. You haven't said the topic yet. It is a feel good topic.

Let me do a little, let me do a little intro here. But first an intro. I thought that was the intro. No, this intro to what I'm going to talk about, who I'm going to talk about, what I'm going to talk about. You know, you guys have gotten Lucille Ball and these other super famous people that you've done. This is not going to be someone quite so famous, but somebody who has really had a great life and has done some things that I wish I could have done or would have done. young couple, they're not much older than you guys. Both of them were born in 1980, which means...

Dad, this is an old-timey podcast. Did you hear me when I first started? I'm commandeering the old-timey podcast, and now it's a new-timey podcast. Oh, dear God, okay. So we're just... The new, new-timey podcast is just current events, or what's the show? Wait a minute, this goes back to 1980. Now, come on.

That's when they were born. That's when they were born. They didn't do anything when they were born. They were just dumb babies. Well, we're going to talk a lot about their first year of life. Okay. No, Kristen, you've got to be thrilled. Both of them were born.

This is a husband-wife in 1980. What does that mean? No age gap. No age gap. That is wonderful in Kristen's eyes. Now, what hang up do I typically have with a couple? You don't like it when it's a looks mismatch. Mismatch?

Here's the deal. They're both fine-looking young people. So no problem. Thank God. So we don't have any of those dynamics that we've had in a lot of your cases. Well, back when you're doing, let's go to court cases. This is a young, good-looking couple. And let's talk a little bit about what they were able to accomplish. We still don't know what the topic is. No. Is this like a mystery reveal?

We're easing in, Norm. Okay, Norm, I'm going to give you a glimpse while you're pushing. I've got a script here that's been well thought out. It's written by hand, by the way. In hand. That's very old timey of you. On notebook paper. Looks like it's been ripped out from the notebook. This is, okay, I'm going to set this up, Norm.

So you and Kristen, when you got married, you had corporate jobs. Yes. And you were working in these corporate jobs. And corporate jobs are very comfortable to work in as long as you enjoy what you're doing. Sure. And you guys were risk takers. you said, hey, I want to be the gaming historian. I want to do let's go to court.

I want to do old-timey podcast. You guys have taken risks with your career. Well, to be specific, I wanted to be the bad boy of YouTube. And I thought the way to do that is video game history. And spoiler alert, he nailed it. Oh. Who named you the bad boy of YouTube? Oh, the public.

The public. Yeah. Okay, very good. You can't give yourself that name. Well, so this is a story of a couple who were very, similar in that they started off with those corporate jobs and then they took a huge risk of giving up really good corporate jobs and then became very successful in that. I envy that kind of guts because I got to tell you when Sheri Ray Ray and I got married and we went about five, six years before we had kids and we were kind of getting our financial feet on the ground. I would have been terrified to quit the corporate world and go do something on my own. I just don't have the gene in me, the guts in me to do it. You guys, and the reason I want to do this case is they did something very similar to you,

but they became even more successful than you guys are. I hate that. Wow. How it's okay. Well, I'm just kind of helping you understand maybe you could do more. Oh, we're not doing enough. Okay. Can we take guesses on who you're going to talk about?

Can you drop us some hints maybe? Or do you really want to stick to this script here? I'm not dropping any hints. The listener is, I mean, they're on the edge of their. seats wondering, who is this guy going to talk about that have been very successful. Yeah, they're like, I can't believe they brought their father-in-law on the podcast, and I wonder what he's going to talk about next. May I make a guess?

Sure. This is an influencer couple that made it big and messed it all up. That's my guess. You could not be further from the truth. No, this was a legitimate business that they jumped into. They created their own business and became extraordinarily successful with it. Not so successful that you've heard of them, though, I don't think. That would be almost no way you would have heard of them.

Okay. So let's just play it by you here. All right. The two people are Mike Cochran and Natalie Jessup Cochran. Now. The Cochran, the Cochran's. The Cochran's. Let's not make any funny jokes, Norman.

Hold it. Norman. Look at Norman. I know. I'm good. I'm good. Again, both born in 1980 in kind of, separate small towns in West Virginia.

Mike grows up, very athletic. He's got the athletic gene. He gets, he's doing great in like elementary school, middle school. And when he gets to high school, he's a great athlete. He's a football player, a baseball player, a basketball player, and he's a big buff dude. This guy is strong. In fact, he won the weightlifting competition in his high school. Not a huge high school, but he's a big buff dude.

Now does he have bench strength like you did in high school? Let's not bring up that again, Norman. Again. We've never mentioned it on this podcast. Oh, we've never mentioned on this podcast. Yeah. Well, I was a bench strength person. In other words, when you don't start, you are bench strength.

Yeah, the newspaper was very kind, bench strength. I don't know why they put a picture of the four of us that came off the bench, and we were in the paper for some reason, and they should have, you know, put a picture of the starters. It's what you call a pity piece. It's also really easy to photograph the bench strength boys. Yeah. Because they're sitting on the bench. Get a wide shot here, yeah.

Okay, well, so now let me talk a little bit about Natalie. Don't have as much detail on her, but Natalie is wicked smart. Wicked smart, as they say. If we have people from Boston, they're going to say, wicked smart. They're going to feel right at home. They were like, I was going to turn this off, but then he really spoke directly to me. Here's the deal, though. They don't actually meet until their senior year of high school.

because they're in separate high schools that are close. So they meet at the mall, but, you know, most high school seniors that meet at the mall are going to meet there, you know, individually and be able to kind of flirt and, you know, all this kind of stuff. Poor Mike, he's got his parents in tow and they're out to dinner at the mall. And he's got a, you know, he sees this waitress waiting on him and, you know, she's kind of flirting with him, but, you know, he's got mom and dad. but that is the beginning of this relationship in their senior year of high school. And so they start dating and this thing moves really, really quickly. In fact, I read an article. So they are big enough.

They've been highlighted in Forbes and Fortune and Wall Street Journal. So we get some background about, you know, from their parents and stuff about how they were growing up. It's kind of need to read through. But their freshman year, November of their freshman year, Mike calls his mom and stepdad and says, we're engaged. Oh, Lord. And, yeah, well, this is kind of what mom said. His mom said, like, oh, come on, kids, plenty of time here.

Yeah. Still in college. Still in college. She says, her words were five months after graduating from high school, they're engaged. That's ridiculous. That is pretty fast. You got to experience the sausage fest. You can't just go straight into.

choosing your entree. Norman, again, I think you've taken that down into the gutter when, you know, you're saying sausage fest. I didn't make that one up. Okay. That was not me. Are you implying that you made up DP? No. No, yeah, you can't blame me for all these, like, you know, gutter references.

I didn't make them up. I just laugh at him. He's just the messenger, dad. Yeah, don't shoot the messenger. Well, but Norman, if your mind was clean and clear of this. gutter language. When you heard sausage fest, you'd think, oh, is there a German festival where we're going to go drink beer? Let me get my Liederhausen.

Yeah, leaderhosen. Yeah, that's true. Okay, so you've already thinking they're jumping pretty fast. Yes. Okay. The next sentence is going to make you think they're jumping even faster because they got married after their freshman year of college. Nice. That's ridiculous.

That's early. That's early. That's true love right there. No, it's not. I will say that's true love. I mean, it can be true love. Okay, now they are good Christian kids, and a lot of times good Christian kids get married early. Oh, sure.

So they can start having sexy times. You know, I'm going to be bold and say, I don't think you needed this sound word for a button that's just your words. Norman, I appreciate you having a button here that says sexy times because that is my catchphrase. Yeah, and just so the listeners know, I texted. DP before we record, I said, what sounds do you want? And he said, sexy times. So that is the only button currently active right now. There is a giant red button on the soundboard and it just plays sexy times. Okay, okay. So let's let's continue with the story. Okay. So they do get married after their freshman year. And I will tell you as a person who was after my freshman year,

that wasn't anything on my radar. It wasn't anything on either of your radars. I will say that Sherry and I got married after her sophomore year. Now, I was graduated already. So I've got some experience with, you know, getting married young, but not quite as young as they were. Now, so you're thinking, okay, and you're like me, I'm kind of reading through this. And, of course, when you're reading through the article, you know, okay, well, they had a great situation. So it's not like it was going to be a problem. Because these two were high-performing people.

So they both graduate on time in 2003 from college, University of West Virginia. The cool thing is Natalie, a lot of times when you get married, you just got to go out and get a job. Well, you know, they worked through school. Natalie goes to pharmacy school, another four years in pharmacy school, and she becomes a pharmacist. So by 2008, gotten married, both undergraduate degrees and her graduate degree. Now, this is going to blow you away. They had a baby in 2006 and had a baby in 2008. This is...

So while she was in pharmacy school, they had babies. Good God. What's he doing while she's in pharmacy school? I'm going to call it a lower level IT guy. Okay. Here's a little clue here. As this whole thing progresses, we're going to find out that Mike, good guy, and all that kind of stuff. But she's the brains of the operation.

In fact, her friend later on said, this is a great company that they have. However, she's the brains of the operation, and he does what he needs to do to help with the company. Sure. And, you've got to have a leader, and she's the leader. So what you can see here is that we've got a situation. We've got two high-performing, highly energetic, highly ambitious people who are really killing. it. And so now we're in 2008. And I'm thinking, in my mind, if I was in that position in 2008, and I was the IT guy out there making a living, and she was the newly minted pharmacist who got a job

immediately, I will say, in my mind, pharmacist make a lot more than they do. I actually looked this up because I thought, well, I wonder what she was making. They make really good money, don't they? Well, I looked at it in today's dollars, it looked like it was, they started at around 110,000. That's pretty good. That's good. But I, for some reason, I, you know, it's, this is eight years of school. So you thought they were making like half a mill? No, I thought they were starting at like 175 and up. But really, the, if you, if you just work as a pharmacist at, you know, Costco or someplace like that, you're making between like 110 and 150,000. Again, a good, a good, living, but that's a lot of school for a good living. I mean, it's, it's, it's, I was surprised.

I'll just say that. I'm surprised that you're surprised. I'm with Kristen on this one. But in fairness, everyone, I graduated from college in 2008, and I remember you were shocked that my job at a newspaper was only going to pay me 30 grand a year. So I think, you know, you might. Yeah, but I guess I've, for some reason in my mind, I was equated. a doctor or pharmacy or pharmacology or whatever they call it as way up into the triple figures. And it's today's when I tell you 110 to 150, that's today. And this is, you know, so I don't know what she was made. But anyway, they're on a good glide path.

Okay. They've got seven years here before they start this company. So I'm going to kind of talk about how they get along before they start this company. Well, they're doing everything DP wants you to do. They're saving further 401K. They're raising their kids. They're involved in their community. For example, Mike is coaching the kids.

When they get up and, you know, doing little soccer when they're three and four years old, he starts getting them in sports, you know, tee ball and this kind of stuff. He becomes very, very involved in the community as far as helping with these leagues that the kids are in. And in fact, so does his wife, even though she's working as a pharmacist, she helps. manage these leagues buying all the uniforms, getting the rental for the gym, getting the rental for the baseball fields, all this kind of stuff. I mean, they're so involved with this stuff, yet they're killing it financially for what most couples would. You know, they're in their late 20s. They started early with the kids, so they've got, you know, got kids to take care of

and everything like that. Now, they do have parents that are able to help with the kids, and so that's good. Both her parents and his parents live fairly close. Well, that's nice. Yeah. That helps a lot. So Mike's doing his IT thing, and she's doing her pharmacy thing, and they're involved with their church. They do volunteer work with the church. You kind of look at this, and you're thinking, okay, this is the way this thing's going to end up.

But like most ambitious, high-energy people, they decided they wanted more. They decided they could do more. And I was thinking as I was reading through the article, okay, well, what they probably will do is she'll start her own pharmacy because, you know, she's got tons of expertise in it. In fact, she had specialized in childhood diabetes research. I thought, okay, that's where you're going to start your own business. But they didn't go that route. They started researching together and looked at what are opportunities for us to have a company, provide services, and make money. And again, they weren't in it just to make money. They wanted to give back

to the community. And they did end up doing tremendous things as far as giving back to the community. So he's in IT. He's in IT. She's in pharmacy with their powers combined, some sort of online pharmacy, perhaps? No, no. Good guess, though. And it does relate to being online. I didn't even realize this was a thing until we sold our house in 2000 to a couple who had a company that supplied helicopter parts to the government and also to individual manufacturers of helicopters. So you can go online. Sam.gov is an online resource where you can go bid. anybody can bid on anything that the government needs. So while she's working, again, Mike's kind of getting pulled along on this.

We understand. He's a hot dummy. Okay. Continue. I didn't want to badmouth the guy. I was going to say, it is funny. I'm realizing I spent too much time in true crime because I'm still waiting for one of them to murder each other. Kristen.

No, I don't. No, this is a feel good story, Kristen. Okay, but all, this just shows you two don't watch enough true crime. It always starts as a feel-good story. It always starts as they were the perfect couple. No, they're not perfect, but they got a lot of positives going on. I think, again, I was drawn to this case because I thought, this is kind of a Kristen Norman story. Hot dummy over here.

No. And I'm the hot dummy, yeah. And I'm just dragging them along. I think very, very buff, athletic, good-looking. Yeah. Most of that's true. Mm-hmm. Oh.

Yeah. Now, Kristen started dating me when I was in middle school. Shut up. So it's a little different because they were the same age, right? They were the same age. Yeah. Yeah, Kristen was at the park and she saw me leave in soccer practice. I'd been asked to not hang out at the park, but I said, you can't tell me what to do.

You know, they really need to put a restraining order instead of just asking you. It seemed like you needed more. You know what a restraining order is, don't you? Stay away? Just a piece of paper. Yeah. Don't mean nothing. You two have been watching too much true crime.

Okay, so let me talk a little bit. Kristen said, I'm just watching them. Seems like a victimless crime. That's enough. All right. Everybody for the record, Norm and I are very close in age, though I am older. Okay, so what Natalie starts doing is kind of what you guys started doing is she's got the full-time job, but she thinks, okay, I'm going to go on this sam.gov website and see if I can do some small buys of stuff.

And they had good savings. And so the biggest thing about, you know, selling to the government is you got to be able to buy the product, deliver the product before you get paid for the product. What's the government want? What can you sell to the government? He's about to tell you. Keep your pants on. Keep your pants on, Norman, as they say. They're on.

They're tight. I will tell you that eventually, so you ask what they got, they got, I'm not going to tell you what kind of contracts they got because I don't have it in front of me. See? That's my ass. Okay. Department of Defense. So Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Homeland Security. I can't think of the last one.

Anyway. Okay. They were getting these contracts, but you start off with small stuff. And for example, the government needs, you know, masks. And this was pre-COVID, so it's not like they're hard to find or anything. But she sources masks and gets a profit margin by selling it to the government at a slightly inflated rate from what she can buy them for. And as long as she can get them there on time and at the price that she, you know, she bid. Because you go online, it's like a bidding process to say, hey, I want to bid on this that's got to deliver in two months.

This feels like an advertisement for the government. Do we enter a promo code for you? Are you compromised? I am not compromised. Dad, you spent a lot of time in Russia recently. As I'm reading through this, I'm thinking, well, this is what the guy who bought my house did. And the guy wrote a check for our house. So I thought, this is...

Was it a giant check or a standard? It was a novelty check. You know, I wanted the giant. He should have asked for it. He just wrote a regular check. In fact, his bank actually... wrote it. You know, we didn't have a big ceremony or anything. No drama. I needed that. So they do a few, they, yeah, they do a few of these deals,

and it's mostly what, what she's doing, but she's making a little money. And she realizes, as she's sifting through all these contracts, there, there are hundreds and hundreds of opportunities out there, but they're going to have to have some cash to be able to make this work, because they're, you know, their cash, they're getting it back, but it's, you know, they're, you You know, you've got to have money to go out and buy this stuff. So they set up tactical solutions group. Now, this is the name of their company. And I know you guys worked hard on, you know, when you named Old Time You Podcasts, you had all kinds of ideas.

Uh-huh. We did. We had some fun ideas. A lot of people hated our ideas. Yeah, they did. Boy, woof. Yeah, it was pretty clear cut what people wanted. Well, they didn't really source the ideas.

But if you think about tactical solutions group, tactical kind of sounds strategory like. It seems like a generic production company. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it's a good, it inspires confidence. I mean, if it was tactical solutions

dudes, that doesn't work. You got to have solutions in there. You've got to have group in there. So they formulate this company, tactical solutions group. Now, what she needs to do at this point is they need to get some bank backing because you know, you can't, you're going to

run out of your money. And I never figured out exactly how much of their money they had to put in to get this off the ground. But you go to the local banks. And so they worked with local banks for the first few years to secure loans, to buy the stuff because they never had to, you know, some of these companies have to make a thing themselves. But you can also buy them typically overseas and bring them in and sell them to the government. Like an importer export. Importer export. Now you got a The stuff, you know, you got a little bit of a risk there. So you're going to have to make sure your stuff coming in from China is good stuff. And we'll meet all the specifications.

I've got a college buddy that that was his whole life was buying. He had a company set up in China, bought stuff over there, brings it in, sells it to U.S. manufacturers. Now, when was this? My buddy did this. He worked for Hallmark for a few years. And he did this in 90s, probably he started some time in the 90s. and became very successful. Yeah.

A lot of that stuff has gone away now with, you know, the Internet, obviously. It's like everyday people now can work directly with Chinese manufacturers and buy product. Yeah. They start off with getting loans from banks. But the problems with loans for banks is you've got to make a monthly payment back to the bank for the loan. And so sometimes the inventory is an issue. So she reaches out to venture capitalists. Now, let me explain what a venture capitalist is.

For example, on Shark Tank, those are venture capitalists. So someone like yourself. Someone like a Mark Cuban or myself who has billions can invest in a company, and then I get to own a piece of that company typically. Why did you turn down Scrub Daddy? That was a great product. Yeah, big. But you said no.

I said no. I said no to a lot of things. Uber. They came at me with Uber. I said, no, I don't think it's going to work. So you ever heard of taxis? Said I think Beanie Babies are going to make a comeback. And that's where I'm putting all my money. Kristen, don't bring up my biggest mistake of my investment career, Beanie Babies. I mean, I've got a vault of Beanie Babies right now. It turns out a vault. It didn't really work out. Yeah, he kept waiting on that Princess Diana Beanie Baby to, you know, really pick up. There's still time. There's still time, D.P. I'm still. I'm holding on to them. Yeah.

Hey, I don't want to get rid of them now. We are holding Beanie Bayes. Now, my problem is, you know, I did buy high, and right now it's low. So I know not to sell now. You don't buy high, sell out you. He bought them all in 95. Okay, so that works, but you still got to make those monthly payments to the bank. And, you know, the bank is in your business now. They're looking at all your spreadsheets.

Oh, yeah. They want to know. They want to know how the business is going. Yeah, yeah, because they're invest in money. So what they were able to do is to also get some venture capital. But, again, she is a sharp negotiator on top of being a smart lady in other ways. She doesn't ever give up more than 10% of the company to a venture capitalist, which is really the way to do it because if you start giving up a lot of money to a venture capitalist, there goes your profits.

Yeah. And she really kind of had it figured out. So she didn't need a lot of, you know, she didn't need advice and all that kind of stuff. She had it figured out. So let me just say that this company took off like they had a rocket ship tied to their ass. Whoa, language. Oh, chill. We're a classy family podcast.

Tied to their rear end. Yeah, they're bum bum bum. We say booty cheeks. Tined into their booty cheeks. Okay, so I'm going to have you guys throw a number out. So for the first five years of their existence, what do you think they sold? This is the top line amount of sale, not their profit. But what do you think they sold in the first five years?

I will tell you, they both were able to quit their jobs and work full-time on this. So total sales. Total sales. Total sales. Total sales. Total sales. Total sales. Total sales.

Total sales. The first five years. First five years. Total sales. Government bidding. It was all government bidding. I'm going to go 400 million. Oh, my God.

I was going to guess 15 million. Norman is actually closer than I. Are you serious? It was $500 million they sold in their first five years. Damn. So half a billion in sales. In sales. So I kind of thought about it because I hear, you know, when you see numbers, you think, wait a minute, it's sales.

not what the company's worth. It's not their profit. But let's just say they had a 10% because a lot of companies would shoot for a 10% profit margin, $50 million over five years. That's wild. Even if they, again, I don't have these numbers, but even as a 5% 25 million over five years. That's pretty good. Now, so. It's not bad. It's nothing compared to what we make on an old timey podcast, but we feel good for them. I was going to ask, are you guys even close to that number? We're past that, actually. Oh, past it. How do you think we get guests like Joe Biden on this podcast? Oh, Joe Biden. We got to pay up. Yeah, Joe Biden was on this podcast. Don't you remember? Oh, well, sexy Joe Biden. No wonder you had him on your, I'd forgotten that one. I'm sorry.

We've fallen pretty far. We went from Joe Biden to your father. Oh, she's right here. I'm sitting right here, Norman. Yeah. Two old white guys on an old-timey podcast. Okay, so here's something else I totally respect about what this couple did. Most people at age, so they were 35 when they started the company. They had enough maturity behind. This isn't the 22-year-old athlete that gets a huge contract and ends up blowing it. They stayed in their same house. It's a nice two-story colonial house.

So, again, they were doing well. Did they paint the woodwork? I didn't see the inside, Norman. I'm sorry. I did see a picture of the outside. You say colonial, I'm curious. And it's set on four acres in a kind of an upscale neighborhood type thing. You know, doctors and lawyers living around them.

But they were already there before they started the company. So they did splurge a little bit. They bought a 1964 Shelby sports car, and that's a type of Mustang, I think. And that's what Mike wanted, and that was kind of a splurge for him. They bought an RV. They bought motorcycles. Naturally. And the one thing that I think they probably splurged on is Mike wanted to be a pilot.

He didn't have his pilot's license, but he was working on it this time. And he bought an airport hangar, a hangar to store planes. So, yeah, that's what I thought. Sounds like they're using their money. Well, yeah. And I don't know what that costs, but, you know, that can kind of be an investment because depending on where the hangar is, you can store other people's planes for them. And they bought the entire hangar.

They bought the hangar. Yeah, so you can rent it out to other planes. And they didn't have an airplane because he didn't even have his license. They just bought the hangar. They bought the hanger because eventually he wanted to get his pilot's license and his helicopter license. So, but again, this is compared to what they were making, this is not super extravagant. You give me that kind of money? I would have had a new house.

I would have had houses elsewhere. I would have had a $2 million RV. The RV they bought was just kind of like what I would buy. It wasn't anything special at all. Norman, you're giving Kristen the side of it. Yeah, no, we're I mean, they spent their money.

You buy an airport hanger. You've got money. Yeah. Well, again. But also, Dad, you're acting like, oh, you would have gone and spent. Sir, you forget, we know you. We know you. I was thinking of this this morning. A couple years ago, you and mom were going to buy an RV.

And you were really agonizing over, you know, which used RV you were going to get. No, you really wanted this one with this color and blah, blah, blah, blah, but oh, couldn't do that. Instead, we're looking at this one that's a little cheaper. And I remember Norman just being mind-blown because he was like, you two have the money to get what you want. Why don't you just get what you want? And you did. And that was like a big thing. It was, and I'm even beyond that now because so when you lived your life a certain way,

and so I'm talking about Sherry and I now, you get into a habit of savings and living relatively frugally. Now, I know people would look at the houses we lived in and think, no, you spent your money, but we spent money on houses and we made money on houses. So that wasn't really kind of a losing proposition for us. But we did manage our money very carefully and we saved a lot of money over the years. So I can respect that they've, I never got the kind of money they're getting. Right, right. And I do recognize that now, for example, if you'd ask me five years ago,

would you ever pay $8,500 for two Super Bowl tickets? I would say, you're crazy. I would never do that. And at a certain point in your life, you just do it because you can. And it's, yeah. And it's, it's, it was a great game. You love seeing how well the Chiefs played. Yeah, what, what a competitive game you watched.

You said, you know what? I am glad that I saved up for this moment. Let me tell you the Philadelphia fans, they're sweethearts. They have that reputation. I sent some sarcasm in that. I sat behind a guy. His seat did not get used much. and it always seemed to not be used right in the middle of a play.

He would pop up like a little game show guy or something. He's up. And the poor guy sitting next to me, who was a Philadelphia fan who would have liked to have seen the game, he missed it all because these two guys in front of us popped up. And I like the way the Philadelphia fans boo anything that's not related to their team. Here's the chief cheerleaders. There's boo. Here's Taylor Swift.

They weren't just booing Taylor Swift. Anything that was wearing red that got put on the big screen, they started booed. Did they booed John Hamm when he introduced the Chiefs? Oh, absolutely. They booed everything related to the Chiefs. No one is safe. Not even John. Not even John Hamm.

Oh, speaking of John Hamm, Ham, do you know that Nana's got some kind of crush on John Hamm now? What? He's so ugly. I know. She's got you at home. Me, right here. I'm right here. Stale Muffin.

Boy, she goes on to the Hulu website there and says, I wonder if there's any John Hamm movies. I said, how about we look for good movies? Oh, no, it's just John Han movies we're looking for. I like, she goes on to the Hulu website there. Did I say website? Yeah. We can't change it. It's too good.

I thought Sherry was into Brendan Frazier. Has she moved on? He's not been in a lot lately. She's moved on. Sherry has over the years, oh, gosh, I wish I could think of some of the boyfriends she's had. Mark Harmon was one, and this is before your time. From NCIS? I think so.

Yeah. So Mark Harmon, she was good-looking guy. He was the boyfriend. And then he was on SNL, and for some reason he took his shirt off and did not look buff at all. Boom. Sherry got rid of it. Wow. Mark Harmon's out.

Tom Selleck, you know, big mustachio, Tom Selleck. He was a boyfriend for a while. Brendan Fraser. I think I'm doing him in order. Right. And now it's John Ham. And she cannot get enough of John Ham movies. And she's probably, if he has any books out, she's read the books too, I'm sure.

He's a good-looking fella. You know, I... I think he's a Missouri native. Oh, don't tell me that, Norm. He's going to move back here and steal my wife. Uh-huh. He's going to move right next to her to her. I like to think of, what was that first guy?

Mark. Mark Harmon. Mark Harmon. Mark Harmon. I like to think of Mark Harmon as being a big fan of this show, and he's just listening, unsuspecting. And then all of a sudden he hears, oh, wow, I took my shirt off for a bit. And some lady in the Midwest was like, eh. He's going to be hitting the gym hard now. Yeah. He will. It'll be good for him. And here's the thing. Who knows what he looks like now? Because this was decades ago, he may have really gone to pot. Have you seen him on something recently? I don't know. I mean, NCIS has been on CBS for like 30 years.

He's been on that show. Do they have any beach scenes? I'm sure they do. They cut all of them because the numbers in the Midwest just dropped off. We got to do some CGI on Harmon's chest. It's just not good. It's not working. It's not working.

Hey, how about if we get back to this couple? Oh, yes, please. Okay. Okay. So this is another thing I like. And a lot of people do this who get money. but they gave back to the community in significant ways. First thing they did, they had a, they sponsored a 5K run for juvenile diabetes research.

And they did that because their neighbors and friends right there in their neighborhood had a child with diabetes. And Natalie and Mike put the thing together, got the sponsors, sponsored it themselves, raised a bunch of money for juvenile diabetes. I think they should have raised it for research on juvenile diabetes. I don't think we needed to put more money toward it, you know, personally. Yeah, they're funding. They're funding for more. It's really, really creating a bigger problem, I think. Why not fund cancer if you're going to fund diabetes?

Exactly. Exactly. That's why I always push back and read the fine print. See if it's research. Are we funding the research or are we giving money directly to cancer? Here's the thing. cancer's doing well all by itself. Exactly. It doesn't need our help.

It's catching on like wildfire. But so many people, you know, they want to fund cancer. I hate it. It's a damn shame. Okay. Back to the serious part here. Their associate pastor at their church, again, very involved in the church. He was losing his home and they rented a home for him for a year.

So they were helping him, you know, rent-free, stay in this house for a year. here's a big one. They gave full-ride scholarships to kids who graduated from his high school or her high school anywhere they wanted to go, which included not only room board and tuition, but they put a stipend with it. So it could come from the family who really didn't have the means to even help the kid get there or get back. So they got the stipend and everything. So they get unlimited meals in the cafeteria.

That's not what that means. Norman. That'd be sweet. Norman, did you kind of miss the main? He comes back to food. These kids have got a full four-year-year-old scholarship. And Norman says, can they eat unlimited in the cafeteria? Now, come on.

Scholarships don't always include your meal plan. Well, this one did. This one did. Well, then. You need a lead with that. You can tell Norm didn't have a meal plan. By the way, he's like, mm, the meal plan. The meal plan.

I didn't have a meal plan. Norman, were you packing a PBJ in your lunch? No, I went to. I went to college where in my hometown, so I just went home and ate lunch with my mom. So you had three meals. And people thought I was so cool. So you had free meals too. So let's not.

Yeah. Okay. My meal plan was awesome. Okay. So another thing, so a lot of their giving is focused on the things they like. So his high school had an old decrepit weight room. Of course, he's the bodybuilder guy. Oh, yeah.

He outfits their weight room in their high school. Now, I saw a picture of this. I don't know what it costs to do that. It had to be, what do you think, 150,000 or something? All this weight equipment, the aerobic stuff. How many shake weights? Yeah, it's just all shake weights. You know, they had those hidden.

They weren't really proud of the shake weights. Oh, that's a shame. Because they're only two easy payments of 1999. Yeah, it's really not a big deal. Really, they could have saved a bunch of money. Why need all these free weights and all these machines and treadmills and stuff. I'm just imagining an entire football team, each player with a shake weight.

That's all they've got. And they've got Tony Little Gazelles for when they do cardio? Just like the most awkward, weird workout equipment they could find. Well, we wanted to do it, but we had $3,000. So everyone gets two shake weights and a, what's it, Tony? A Tony Little Gazelle. A gazelle freestyle elite. I thought it was Tony Romo.

That's what I almost said. You wish. Okay. So again, they're doing exactly what you should do when you get money, not giving it back to the community, saving the money. Airport hangar. Okay. Let's not get hung up on the airport hanger, Norman. Got to do that with your money.

When are you buying an airport hangar? I am not. I have no desire to fly. Taylor Swift could rent the hangar from you. Oh, she could land in my airport. Right. Yeah. And, oh, this is a good idea.

Yeah. Then I can see Travis all the time and talk to Travis. about stuff. Yep. And you say, so when are you flying in next? Like, oh, we'll let you know. Our relationship's on the rocks. Maybe we should exchange numbers.

Okay, I got a good. So we live near Smithville, Missouri. We don't live in Smithville, but we live near Smithville. It's a little town, and one of the teenagers started a rumor that Taylor Swift was at this restaurant. Now, this town is a good 30 minutes north of downtown Kansas City. Taylor, there's not a nice enough restaurant for Taylor Swift to even drive by. There's a good Taco Bell in Smithville.

Okay, good Taco Bell. This girl, I don't know how old she was, gets this started. And it spreads like wildfire. And people are like going to the restaurant. They're driving around. Oh, my God. And then, you know, of course, the news media gets a hold of it. And why you even check this out, I don't know, because it wouldn't take much to know.

Well, no, that's not happening. It's not, Haler Swift's plane doesn't even land at the airport that's close. It lands downtown at the corporate airport, I'm sure. Yeah, but she loves the Taco Bell in Smithville. Yeah. Well, she reached out to Norman and said, hey, what do you recommend in Kansas City? And he says, well, it's up north a little bit, but I'd go to the Taco Bell. Telling you, they make it good up there.

Okay. Hey, back to the story. Right, right. Right to the story. Right. They're doing, they've got money and they're spending it wisely. wisely. Okay, so the other interesting thing I looked at was how did they divide the labor? Because, you know, any two-person, this is essentially a two-person company. They have not manufactured anything themselves. But Mike's responsibility is to go through, and this is time-consuming to go through all these potential contracts out there. So his responsibility, again, doesn't take too much to understand what we can and can't do. and shuffle the ones that they can do to Natalie.

So she's able to pull it together and figure out, hey, how soon can we get this thing from China or wherever we're buying it from and get it to the government and can we make it work? So he's doing all that, and she's lining up the money and doing what I would consider the real logistics work and the finance work of the company. And it's working really well because they continue to grow

and do all kinds of great things. Now here's where I've got. I've got a question. Yeah. Who had the more like intellectually demanding job? Oh, her. Christ. Kristen, when you ask me a question that's not a serious question, I need to be more on the ball, don't I?

I just, I love, you know, there are some things. I love when you dance around something because you dance bigger than if you just set it outright in the first place. Okay. He's not the sharpest two on this year. But he can sift through contracts. Okay. Here are the government agencies they did business with. Oh, here we go. Sorry about this. Norman asked me a question like two pages ago.

CIA. Oh. What did they sell the CIA? None of your business. Widgets? Well, and this is part of the issue is these contracts, if they're with the CIA or with the Department of Defense, are those are private contracts that nobody else can see. However, FEMA and Homeland Security, you know, they'll do a contract with you without, you know,

because there's no secret to it. But when you're doing it with the Army, okay, where are you shipping that stuff? And so they start off with the small stuff. But then about four years in, the biggest contract they got was for dental equipment that was going to go on to Air Force bases, Army bases, Navy bases for use. there and then some for USAID to go into impoverished countries. So dentists, you know, those dentists without borders or whatever can go in and work on kids. So they were buying a lot of that stuff.

And so that was so it was starting to kind of grow a little bit. Okay, they get to the point where they're wanting to get into ammunition and guns and machine guns. Oh, Lord. Oh, cool. It's kind of the next step as far as the government buys a whole lot of this stuff. So they had set up to go to fly to Virginia in early February of 2019 and meet with the Bank of America and secure a $300 million loan. Now, it wasn't going to, they just want that $300 million line of credit, if you will. And Bank of America was pretty excited about it because obviously, you know, they were continuing in this upward trend.

And Bank of America is ready for them coming on Monday. so they're going to fly out on Sunday afternoon. Well, they had some issues that came up and they couldn't make that flight. But so Bank of America said, okay, well, we can reschedule. Now, Natalie has, you know, a health scare, not just a scare, a health problem that comes up later in 2019. She has leukemia. Oh. And so, you know, everybody's a little concerned.

the investors are concerned. She's doing like, I'm going to say 90% of the work, in fact, maybe more. And they're concerned that she's health-wise, just not going to be able to continue. So investors are kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? So Natalie and Mike decide we're going to sell a big portion of the company because I don't even know. do you, you can just prolong your life with leukemia. I don't think you fully recover from it. I didn't even.

I don't know anything about it. Okay. Well, anyway, so she sells 49% of the company. So now she's basically, she has control, but she's giving up a huge chunk of the company because she kind of recognizes, I've got a 13-year-old and an 11-year-old, and I'm trying to manage this company and raise these kids. And then, again, still doing all this charity work and everything else she does. So she sells 49% of the company.

And the investor, of course, now this guy is going to be, he's going to actually either have to hire people or work himself at the company for owning this much of it. But he feels like he gets a good deal on it. She feels like it's worth it because of the unknown future. And so he sends her a $50,000 earnest money deposit. And then he wants to do just what all the banks and everybody else have done is, to look into, you know, what's my, what's the future here look like. She probably doesn't need that Bank of America loan anymore because this investor has got

some deep pockets and is going to be able to help a lot. But the cancer is causing concern for the current investors as well. Because they have noticed the banks and the other investors that are in it just getting getting paid back. They don't own any of it. They've noticed those payments are coming in later. And, of course, she's got leukemia, so you can't, you can understand that it's going to take some time to get that done. But it goes on long enough that there are people who are saying, okay, we want a full-blown, you know, accounting, if you will,

because we've been seeing, you know, a lot of these spreadsheets and everything, everything looks real good, but we want a full-blown accounting of this situation. And so they put enough pressure on her, and she doesn't, she can't answer their questions quickly enough. And, um, I, yeah, it sounds terrible. This is a bad situation. Well, and when, when people are all about the money, yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's what this is about. Yeah.

And they don't care that you got, you know, two, two kids to raise and, you know, everything else. They're concerned about it. At that same time, $30,000. goes missing from the Little League fund that she and her husband manage. They had just done a big fundraiser and got $30,000 in there, and then all of a sudden it's gone. Uh-oh. Now, the problem with these kind of situations is, while she and her husband have got, you know,

obviously spending ability, so do a bunch of other people, like the coaches of other teams and things like that. So they hire an auditor who, because they hire an auditor who, comes in and goes through the books, and he, quite frankly, can't figure out who absconded with the money. It showed that, you know, this person or someone took 8,500 out, somebody took 1,200 out. They can't see where it went. It's just, it's just out of the account. And the forensics, at least the audit that that guy did, turned up nothing other than it's gone. We don't know where it is. So she's... Forensics. Yeah. Like DNA? No, no, no, no.

financial forensics. I do a semen sample. They get it. I was going to ask. How did they collect? See, again, Norman, again, you're making. I'm going to need a sperm sample. I thought this is purely a financial crime.

I thought this was an audit. It is. Okay, so obviously, difficult situation. And one of the investors finally says, I'm going to the police. I think there is some fraud here. From them, the couple? Yeah, think the couple. has committed fraud. So this 49% dude is like, I think there's fraud in this company. He's the one who

actually started it because he was looking into it because he just sent him $50,000 and had just bought basically half the company. Yeah. So they come in and do an audit, if you will, and discover, I'm not sure about everything in here. So they bring in the SEC type folks who look into companies to see if everything's on the up and up. So they use the term raid, but they raid the offices because they have an office and then they have their home. Right. They raided both of them. Damn.

And what do you think they found? Nothing. Kristen? I'm assuming nothing, too. I mean, at the beginning of this story, I was waiting for someone to get murdered. And then I was told, no, no, no. This is a perfectly normal, nice couple. Let's admire them.

So I'm assuming nothing. You were wrong. Well, I take that back. They did find nothing. There were never any government contracts. What? Everything I've told you up to this point is what she has said to people. And she has created spreadsheets.

She has fooled everyone. There never was a bank loan because banks wouldn't fall for this. She told people they had the banks behind him. She told people that they had the, the capital investors behind them. Holy shit. She had none of it. Well, so she made money by just having investors.

Ponzi scheme. Give them money. It's a Ponzi scheme. No, no, that's not a Ponzi scheme. Yes, it is. No, it is. I'm just kidding. Now, here's the thing.

It's kind of a Ponzi scheme in that she took money from investors, but there was really never any evidence she ever paid anybody back. anybody ever over five years. So the 500 million... So was that legit? Did she make 500 million? Or she just claimed we made 500 million dollars? She made nothing.

She made zero dollars. She made zero dollars. But she got money. Yes. She took in about three million dollars from friends and family. Oh. Oh. So she had three million dollars.

Also, you might imagine now, she did not have leukemia. Oh, my God. I hate this. Wow. You've got us. You're sneaky. Because I was feeling bad for this lady.

And now I don't feel bad for her at all. Well, so here's the interesting thing. So this is actually a Dateline episode. And it's actually called Small Town Big Con. But I couldn't tell you any of that. I had to tell you that I was reading Forbes and the Wall Street. journal. So that was DP making stuff up. But she was making the rest of it up. I bet you're not even diabetic. I am diabetic. No, so listen to this. So they interviewed some of these friends and family

that had given me. So the guy there in their neighborhood who was a lawyer, Chris Davis, now this is not the Chris Davis who played first for the Orioles, Norman. I know you're a sports guy. Oh, yeah. Love Chris Davis. His wife. is Jennifer, and they were not only neighbors, church friends, coaching buddies. So they coached each other's kids, teams. They have a child with diabetes that they did the fundraiser for. That was the fundraiser legit? Did that go through? Who knows how much of that actually went? I'm sure they gave a portion of the money, but I'm sure it was more about like, look at us, look how good we are, look at what we're doing, aren't we great?

Exactly. These were as close as a couple could, two couples can be. They vacationed together. Now, the Davis is, you know, he's a big time lawyer. He's, he's got money and he lives in that neighborhood with them. Sure. He thinks, well, she's a pharmacist and now she's got this other thing going and, oh, gosh. How did they, how did they decide we're going to start a Ponzi scheme? she's never going to admit how she decided to start a Ponzi scheme. It's just she saw an opportunity. And again, she was a really good manipulator. She was able to convince people. She convinced this lawyer that he couldn't see any of the contracts because the ones she asked him for money for were DOD and CIA and stuff like that. Oh, so it's like this is top secret.

He said he asked for the contracts. and she says, hey, I, you know, part of the contract I signed with the government was, I don't say anything about where stuff's going, what I'm buying, anything like that. It's just the, it's just the money that you're going to make money on it. Now you want to, Norm, you did really well on what her made up number was for how much she had sold. How much do you think this lawyer and his wife gave them? Oh, gosh. Okay, so you said...

She received $3 million? She received a little under 3 million. From everybody, but... Yeah, from everybody. I bet they gave her like $150,000. I'm going to guess $300,000. $511,000. Oh, gosh.

And this is a couple about their age. And so, you know, obviously he's smart guy, keeps his money put away, you know, that kind of stuff. He's devastated. He is absolutely devastated. Tell you what, I'd be knocking on their door. What are you going to do? I'll give me my money back.

Well, you're going to get into why you can't knock on anybody's door anymore. I just don't know how you get into that whole Ponzi scheme thing. Well, listen to the story, sir. Keep your pants on. Well, D.P. said that she'll never admit to how she got into it. Yeah, but he's going to give us. I'm just wondering how you get to that mental state. You're going to get some real good information.

Because I've never woken up one day and I think I should start a Ponzi scheme. Well, maybe that day will come. Big butter is not a Ponzi scheme. Sure, for sure. That's a pyramid. I mean, that is a Patreon tier. Has anybody ever gotten any pig butter? Hey, listeners, let us know.

Have you ever actually gotten any pig butter as an investor? We're still in development. Yeah, yeah. That's really rude. The tariffs are hitting us hard. Uh-huh. And you're being, it's coming through. Is it being audited too?

That was another one. It's being audited. No, we're not under audit because there's nothing wrong. Nothing wrong. Yeah. It's perfectly fine. You'll be getting your envelopes in the mail. You'll know because they'll be wet and squishy.

I was going to say. Oh, these padded envelopes. It's those big pad. Bubble mailers. You'll see some grease stains on the outside. The problem is mail carriers hate us. They do. But you can mail anything, you know.

Let's talk about a friend of Natalie's. Tony McCall. Tony's a widow. Widower? Is that what you say, widower? Yeah, when it's a man. When a man dies, she's the widower. She's the widower.

No, no, no. Hold on. When, okay. When the man dies, she's a widow. Yeah. Oh, Tony's a woman. Sorry, sorry. T-O-N-I.

T-O-N-I. Kristen. I apologize. I apologize. Okay. She's friends with Natalie. Mike coaches her kids. And Mike is like a second, she talks on the episode.

Mike's like a second father, a surrogate father for her kids. She coaches them, takes him to the zoo. Whenever he's taking his kids someplace, he goes and gets her kids, takes them. Just the greatest guy on earth. And Mike, Mike is a great guy. What? They're about the same age. Why do you say he's a great guy?

Yeah. Well, he was in on this scheme. You haven't? The story's not over, Norman. Oh, is he going to be like, I had no idea. My wife was running a Ponzi scheme. I'm just a hot dummy. How much did Tony give?

Again. 200,000. No, no, because she's a widow. She doesn't have that much. But she probably. inherited some money. 100,000. $250,000.

Damn, I win. Okay, and the last the last couple I'm going to talk about. Dad, can we just pause so that Norm can really revel in the glory of guessing that a widow gave a lot of money

to a Ponzi team. Congratulations, Norm. I'm just closer to the number. It's nothing to do with her. It's just I was closest to the number. Okay. Can we, do you want to celebrate in some way, Norman? No, I just think people should

Norm, is that a confetti canon you just pulled out? Okay, so Mike's mom and dad. Oh, geez. Step-dad. This is an older couple. And we're seeing in the episode their home looks very conservative. I mean, these are people who worked in blue-collar jobs, and they're in there, I'm going to say 70s now. And they're being interviewed about how much money they lost to.

Natalie and Mike. Oh my God. Now, interestingly enough, they never talked to Mike about this amount of money. Never. Just to her? Natalie was the person who was raising the funds. Mike was going through the contracts. Now, let me tell you, Mike actually was going through contracts. He actually was going through those thinking that we're making this much money. They gave out of their retirement savings account $256,000. And that is like, for for blue collar families, that is probably everything. It was everything. She said because she had told, Natalie had told them that her parents had made $60,000 in five months through investment. Well, I mean, and yeah, why why wouldn't you trust? your daughter-in-law.

Everything's going well. You should never trust your children in law. Is that right, Norman? I've been trusting you up till now. I know, and you're really stupid. Oh, God. Okay, let me talk a little bit about, so these three people were among others

who had given them money. There were probably the three, well, there were the three people who had come on Dateline. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, when they get conned, they don't want to admit it. They certainly don't want to go on TV.

Yeah. Well, and Tony McCall, the friend, didn't believe it. We talked about that. It's easier to, you know, get fooled than to admit that you got fooled. Yeah. She says, I didn't believe it. They, you know, they came to me and said, this was not only just a Ponzi scheme, but no one got paid anything.

They couldn't track it down because no one, there was no legitimate numbers on any spreadsheet that was put together. Right. So she said at first, I, like, argued, which is what, a lot of people who get involved in Ponzi schemes do. They argue that, no, don't shut it down now because they still owe me money. They don't recognize that there's, there was never any money there. Let me tell you about skeptical DP. I've got four, my closest friends, four guys, closest friends, all of them doing really well in life. And they're later in life. Two of them have actually run

companies. And if they ever would have come to me and told me I could make more if I invest in their companies, one of them had that import-export business. One of them, after he quit, retired from Hallmark, started a janitorial service. The other two, just buddies of mine that I trust with anything. Yeah. But if they came to me and said, I can make you a little more money than you're making, or a lot more money than you're making by investing in the stock market, I would have said, I'm good. There's no way anybody, because I've had investment people, try to talk to me about investing differently than I do.

And I'm like, I don't trust you. I don't think you know any more about it than I do. So my skepticism, I don't think, would ever allow me to fall for something like this because I'm just comfortable with plugging away. Again, risk. I'm not a risk taker. You know, some people think the stock market's a risk. Not in the long term, it's not.

But I cannot believe people fall for this because it's just, it's beyond me that you don't research things more to find out what's real and what's not real here. See, I think you're just kind of a special. You're a special boy. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with. with money, uncomfortable around investment. Like, it's just not something a lot of us are really well educated on. And if you have someone you really, really trust a family member, a friend, someone who you think is a really good person and who is working hard.

And, I mean, especially someone who is a pharmacist. I think that's. Yeah, I went through eight years of school. Oh, you probably definitely know what they're talking about. If they think I can make money. Yeah, I mean. I get, well, I watch TV, so I know a lot of people fall for this stuff. So I just, it's, you know, when it's out of your comfort zone, you just can't imagine that people do.

The other thing I will say is when we hear about scams, none of us want to believe that we would fall for the scam, ever. Even if it's one that we probably would. We don't want to believe it. We always want to. I think that's why it's so hard for people to come forward when they've been scams. Because then you get all this judgment and all this. And it's embarrassing. How could you fall for that?

Exactly. I wouldn't because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because I've never trusted a pharmacist in my life. Their coats are too white, you know, or whatever. Hey, let me step back because I had to skip over a portion of this story as I was telling it because I thought it would clue you guys in too much to what was really happening. So when I told you that they were going to fly into Virginia, to meet with Bank of America. Right.

Yeah, that was weird how you were just like, oh. Well, they decided not to. Here's what happened that day. Okay. So they both get up in the morning and Mike takes steroids. Okay. That's a given. He takes steroids and he takes all kinds of supplements because he's too good son.

How can you tell? Well, I saw a picture of the guy. He's looking very steroidy. Yeah. Okay. No, and his kids ended up testifying, and that tells you that we had a problem. them here. Oh.

That he took steroids and he took all these supplements that Natalie didn't think he should be taking because some of them were coming from less than reputable sources. And so he was, I don't want to say taking illegal drugs, but steroids are, I guess, a controlled substance at least. And all of a sudden, Sunday morning, he hits the floor in the kitchen, passed out cold. and Natalie is like, whoa, what's going on here? And so she calls his friends, some guys that were actually working on their house doing some of that renovation that they did. And she has them move him to the couch.

And he's like barely conscious, very groggy. And she says he tells her, do not send me back to the hospital because he had gone to the hospital. And they'd given him a hard time about taking steroids. and these supplements and stuff because she had taken all the supplements after show what all he was taking. And this was the previous time, so he says, never send me back to the hospital.

So she takes pictures of him and calls his friends and say, come and come and see, see if you can talk him into coming, you know, going to the hospital, and several of them come, and he's just totally out. He's not conscious. And they say, you got to take him to the hospital.

Yeah, call an ambulance, yeah. She doesn't. And finally, the buddy, the Chris Davis guy, he comes over and he just takes, he says, no, he's going to the hospital. Yeah. We're taking the hospital. They take him to the hospital. He is in a coma when he arrives. He's in a coma for five days.

He dies after five days. Oh. Oh. Now, no foul play suspected. Everything's good. You just take too many steroids or something? Well, what she said was he's taken – she says, I don't know what – here's everything he's taken. I don't know what he took.

And they buried him, and everything's good. She's still trying to run the company by herself. So I didn't tell you that the last four months she was trying to run the company by himself. So they didn't run an autopsy of, like, look for substances inside of them. They called it natural causes because of the – so some doctor must have felt like, well, All this stuff he was doing, natural causes. Four months later, when they go in and raid the house, they find a vial of insulin. Oh.

Juvenile diabetes. Nobody. That's not. Well, maybe they're like giving away. What are you talking about, Norm? She's big on juvenile diabetes. Norm, it's not time to defend anybody here. Yeah.

I'm just playing devil's that. a little bit here. Okay, so let me tell you what happened. They go in and they photograph everything, take anything suspicious, and they find a vial of insulin. And now they've got to figure

out where'd that vial of insulin come from because none of the four people who live in the house take insulin or diabetic. And what they discover is through phone texts is that Natalie had called her or texted her friend Jennifer

saying, hey, you know, I know it's weird, but Mike takes a little bit of insulin to help cut muscles and make his muscles more cut. Oh, my God. And it's like, yeah. And she says, can you send some insulin over so we can use it today because it's Sunday and it'll just be easier. We'll get it replaced. He gets it all the time.

And so she bags that up and has the. guy's best friend take the insulin in a bag and leave it on their front porch. That is diabolical. And so they find this. And so they kind of knew all this while they were doing this investigation. But she gets convicted or she admits to the fraud and is spending 11 years in jail. So she's in jail now. But now they exhumed the body.

Yeah. And check it out. And, you know, it's got insulin in it. is blood count, boy, I'm going to forget the exact blood count, 21, I think. And it should be like about 100 or something between 80 and 100. The research you've done is astounding. I know. Brilliant.

Hey, I didn't come here to be made fun of. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, so she goes to trial for murdering her husband. Yep. And she has the kids testify that he took steroids and all this kind of stuff. but showing that she had asked for the insulin that morning. I mean, it had come in that morning. And then...

I take back what I said about her being smart. She... Now I'm telling her how to do it. You've got a friend who's got a kid who's diabetic and you didn't just go over there and raid the medicine cabinet. You put this in a text message. You involved multiple other people. And then you didn't even throw the insulin away.

It's amazing the number of dumb mistakes that were made. But when you're getting away with all of this stuff, maybe you feel like no one's going to catch me for any of it. I have a question. Yes. Did she inject him with the insulin? Or did she, like, replace his steroids with the insulin? So he thought he was taking his steroids, but it was actually insulin.

They were not able to prove any of that, which when I'm watching it, you know, sometimes you're like, ooh. She may get away with this, but she didn't. Yeah. She probably injected it in them. Yeah. Because you'd have to give them quite a bit to get them. What's the medical term?

Hypoglycemic or hyperglycemic. Either way, yeah, he would pass out. Oh, God. That's awful. And the other thing is what person, and she tried to involve others by inviting people over, but then he kept telling him, hey, he says, never to take him back. the hospital again. You can't do it. So that was a lie. Oh, yeah. That's so messed up. Don't take him to the hospital. Well, when you said she took

pictures of him and sent them to his friends. They showed the pictures. They showed the pictures she took. And he's like almost like he had just dropped in a kind of semi-fedal position. That's so disgusting to involve other people. And then to call the- Also to murder your husband. I'm sorry. I realized how that sounded. Can't believe you made those calls. So, you know, the end of the story. is that she had, she said she's then found guilty and then found no mercy. In West Virginia, you can either get mercy, which gives you some parole opportunities or no mercy. And they gave her no mercy.

And his mom got up there and spoke. And Chris Davis got up there and spoke. And, you know, they're just devastated because Chris felt like he, he was part of it. And Jennifer, his wife, who she texted to get the insulin. and, of course, then they have medical people and people who work with bodybuilders on getting strong. It says, nobody takes insulin. I was going to say that sounded weird. It's totally made up.

Yeah, that's not a thing. Did Jennifer lose her license? She's in prison for the rest of her life. Jennifer. Oh, I'm sorry. Jennifer. Jennifer was not. She wasn't a pharmacist.

She was a pharmacist. She just had it because her son had. Oh, oh, I'm sorry. For some reason I thought Jennifer was a pharmacist. Never mind. But Natalie's still present. practicing in prison. She's getting out drugs in prison now. You know what? They should have put her at the prison library, I think. I don't think she needs to be around those drugs. Take two of these.

Okay, so I apologize for tricking you guys. Here's my biggest worry coming over here, is that you're going to figure it out. And I thought, okay, if they ever say anything that sounds like they're starting to question whether or not this is a real deal, I got to stop them. And I've got to really emphasize how much I love and respect the way they're managing money. I was, I was really like, he really came over here with a feel-good story about a couple starting a business. Like, wow. I was like prepared to be bored.

I mean, what the hell? That would have been kind of boring. Not necessarily. I do think some stories of companies starting off, it can be interesting. But you really weren't giving us the building blocks. that. And so I was just kind of like, there were no building blocks. And then you said, this couple reminds me of you two. I knew that would throw you off too. So here's the deal. I didn't want, you know, when she killed Mike and got away with it, I didn't want to say that

before I said she got caught with the fraud because I thought you would figure out she's a pharmacist and her husband dies. You know, oh, this is, she killed him. She killed him. So I pulled that out of the story and then inserted it at the end. Boy, boy. So did she ever... I hope the listeners feel betrayed, too. No, I'm guessing there's some listeners that are going to say, I recognize those names. At West Virginia, I remember, I remember, see, it was on dateline like three weeks ago. So somebody's going to probably think they're going to love it because you guys didn't figure it out the whole time. So you came on to an old-timey podcast. Yes. You presented us with a story from less than 10 years ago. 10 years ago.

essentially, yes. And it's a true crime story. Incredible. But it was sold originally as a new-timey history podcast. Wow. Our history fans are going to love this story. Let me tell you. This is more for entertainment.

Just consider this a break between, you know, smalls and whatever Kristen does next. You know, we've got some people who have stuck with us from Let's Go to Court, my old rotting decrepit podcast. We've got some new folks, the history hose, and boy, are they in for a treat? I hope they enjoy it as much as I enjoy doing it. But maybe they won't. Maybe some people, although, boy, it looks to me like I'm a popular figure to come back on the podcast. I mean, it's just, I'm reading the comments. It'll be great.

What if people sign up to get the video of this episode because they believe. leave your intro about how good looking you are. And then they demand refunds. They say, wait a minute, Bradley Cooper. I'm not seeing the Bradley Cooper. I see a human man. I mean, that's, yeah, that's where the similarities in, though. Kind of a mashed potato face, human man. Dad, you'll be thrilled to know that because this is a DP episode, we are messing with the format a little bit. we went to our discord today.

We said DP is in the building, and by the building we mean our house. And if you've got questions for this man, you let us know. So are you ready to take some questions from the listeners? I have expertise in almost all areas. Oh, good. That's what we thought. That's why we asked our listeners. So you got anything.

Hopefully it's a broad range of questions. It absolutely is. What have you got? Also, I hope there are no questions. really make fun of me because I've seen those kind of things that really poke fun at an old man. Yeah, we would never do that on this podcast. Okay, so this will be legitimate questions where people really need serious advice. Oh, this is interesting.

S.J. wants to note, D.P., what is the worst marriage advice you've ever received? I don't know that I reach out for people to give me marriage advice. Because you're such an expert in everything. Well, I am far from a perfect husband. Let me just say, asked Sir Ray Ray. She will indicate that a lot of improvement could be given. I will say that Sherry has had me on a PIP. Now, for those of you that aren't familiar with the HR Lingo, performance improvement plan, that's for those of us that, you know, we're not going to get fired from the job as husband, but a lot of improvement is needed. So I've been on a PIP plan. Oh, 40 years now. Yeah, the first three, I was not on a plan, and then I went on a performance improvement plan. And I'm hanging in there. I'm just hanging in there.

So I don't know that I've sought or because Sherry gives me all the advice I need, really. Ask your spouse what marital advice they would give. Just do whatever your spouse tells you. That's the advice. Oh, Lord. Oh, Carrie Daniel wants to know, for all of us who have lost our dads to right-wing propaganda, will you be our new dad? I will be glad to be your new dad. I just listened to a podcast about a guy who had lost his dad to right-week propaganda. And they had a $10,000 bet. His dad said these 10 things were going to happen during 2024.

And none of them happened because they were literally. crazy. So this is like deep, deep in the rabbit hole kind of stuff. This guy is deep in the rabbit hole. He, the, the dad not only had, was alienated from his daughter, the guy's, the guy who was doing the podcast's sister, because she came out to him as gay and he, of course, deep right wing guys don't like that. But he did push his dad in a corner to say, dad, give me 10 things they're going to

to happen this year. And he came up with 10 things. And it was like the Clintons are going to be convicted of treason and murder. And Joe Biden will be out of office and Trump will take office before the election. Oh. You had 10 of these things. So not going to have an election in 2024. Trump will just. Trump will take power during, during 2024. And it turns out this guy was listening to a lady, a Christian preacher lady, and believed everything she said. And, and, and believed everything she said and didn't believe any of his friends or family or anything else. So he loses the $10,000. And do you know what his response was at the end?

What? It's not happened yet. It's not happened yet. Just a little delay. He paid the $10,000, but all that stuff is still going to happen. So some people, when they're deeply embedded, you're not pulling them out. It's what you just said of. It's easier to be tricked than to admit you've been tricked.

Yeah. Now, I do have to call your ass out. Because, you know, you are progressive old white guy, a bit of a unicorn. But when you were down in New Orleans for the Super Bowl, good old Fox News was there looking for people to interview. And you, oh my, don't make me sing. Don't make me seeing you sashet over to the reporter. You sang your song.

You were a happy guy. So, yeah. So this guy, I mean, guy with a camera just says, hey, will you be interviewed about the Super Bowl. Or maybe he said, are you going to the Super Bowl? And I said, yeah. And so he said,

can we interview you? So then I look and see it's Fox. And so I just think it's a local Fox guy. Sure, sure. So I said, are you local Fox? He says, no, national. It'll be on TV tomorrow.

I was like, okay. So, yeah, he asked me a couple questions. He asked any predictions or something. And I said, three Pete baby. And they didn't do my three Pete baby, which is my best quote. They got me stumbed around

about what, you know, how much the tickets costs and that kind of stuff. But I had that three, and I walked away thinking, man, they're going to use that three-peat, baby. That was, that was strong. And they cut your best line. They cut my best line. They cut my best line.

Got wrenching. There's some editor at Fox News who they said, no, we're not going three-peat, baby. But that was, that was, that was classic. You saw what I did, which was just terrible. Just. I didn't, I didn't catch it. We couldn't watch the clip. Oh, well, it did.

You looked good. They said, how much does you spend on your tickets? So I'd tell him when I would spend on the tickets. And are you excited to go to the game? Yeah, we're from Kansas City, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, so he talks to me for probably two minutes, and there's 12 seconds on there or something. Gosh, and it was two minutes a solid gold.

Yeah. Now, why he asked you to show your tits and then he threw you those beads, we don't know. Was that off camera? That was off camera. They don't want that stuff on camera. Once again, the gyms are on the cutting room floor. Hey, let me tell you, when they came up to us, Surrey-Rae's right there with me, they came up to us,

she ran to the other side of Bourbon Street so fast you couldn't. I wasn't sure where she was after we finished, because where did Shere-Rae go? Because I think she was afraid that I was going to waver in or something. Well, yeah, I mean, Mom does not want to be a part of anything. Nope. Okay, I have a question for you. Yes.

Okay, it's a question about Costco. I was just there last night. Sarah wants to know what is one thing at Costco that you think is actually a bad deal and not worth buying? Well, anything you don't need. I mean, when you manage your financials conservatively, anything you don't need, and you walk in there and you think, well, wouldn't this be cool? Well, I'll give you one. Yeah.

Okay, so Sherry and I walk in, and they've got this outdoor bar. thing that you set up in a patio area. Okay. Really cool. And if I would have bought it, it would have been the worst investment of my life because I would have put it together and it's like, I don't really have a great place for it. And how often are we going to be, you know, sitting out here when we've got places already to sit outside the house?

So something like that, you think, oh, how cool is that? But then, wait a minute, who needs that? We don't need that. We're looking more for a product you have purchased. No, he answered this in the most accurate way, but it also happens to be the most boring way. That's how the financial advice goes. Yeah, I think we stick with this. I'm looking for something that you've purchased from Costco and you're like, ooh, I'm not buying that again.

Oh, I can't think of anything. Now, so Sherry buys all the food products. I don't. I see. You just do whatever she says. Because, well, so I know you bought some terrible beer at Costco, right? Oh, legendary. Legendary terrible beer.

I've never bought beer at Costco, so that's not been a problem. Yeah. But, yeah, I would have trouble with something specific. It's just that because if I see it and I think about it, I don't just like, I'm not an impulse guy. Yeah. You stick to what you know. Yeah. Yeah.

Chicken bakes. Chicken bakes good. Mm-hmm. Dr. Pepper. Trying to lay off the Dr. Pepper a little bit. Okay. Got to have some of it. Have you switched to zero sugar?

I'm doing a lot of zero sugar. Although I will tell you, I would. was out at a place walking with a buddy of mine, and they had a vending machine. All ahead was regular Dr. Pepper. And I knew that, you know, when you've got the type 2 diabetes, you shouldn't have it, but slammed it. Yeah, slammed it. You said, hey, I'm out for a walk.

I'm going to walk this off. 16 ounces of ice cold, Dr. Pepper. Yeah. I couldn't resist. No regerts. Snow-ridden wolf wants to know what's the worst you've ever embarrassed. Kristen and Kyla. Well, I know you told a story where I embarrassed you when you were in college by helping

you return an item and trying to negotiate even better deal. And I was being, I think you called me a Karen. And I think you, or Ken, whatever a male Karen is. Uh-huh. Were these the pants? Yes. These are the pants. The designer jeans.

And you'll have to go back. into the, let's go to court archive that I was on and find out that one. But I know whenever I pull my shirt off in a restaurant. Oh, God. Like, if I have a hoodie on, like Norm's wearing a hoodie there. Yeah. If I was going to pull a hoodie off, specifically if Kyla and Kristen are there, I will pull it off knowing that my undershirt is going to pull up with it,

and they'll be seeing the action. The skin. It'll look like Mark Harmon. And I have done that a few times. And Kristen and Kyla and Sherry too. They are so embarrassed and they don't realize that the more they react, the more I do it. That's what they don't realize, Norm. Yeah.

And so if the other people in the restaurant see this man's hairy nipples and they get offended, that's on us in a way. You shouldn't have been looking. Yeah. We shouldn't have been reacting. They shouldn't have been looking. I'm a little surprised. that there aren't pictures of myself out on social media doing that because you'd think it's such a show that people would have been able to video it as many times. It's a real mystery why there aren't more photos of you on the internet with your hairy nipples

show. I know. It's out there. It's out there. So I know those are embarrassing. Kristen, you ask you how much I embarrassed you. You have to. Are there other things besides?

Oh, no. Okay. No, that's it. So no more embarrassment then. Uh-uh. All right. I've got one for you. Okay.

Accidentally naked wants to know, DP, how do you feel about Kristen and Norm's fancy new toilet? Very controversial purchase. You know, I... So let's hear, let's go to the no-spin zone. No spin zone. Let's get your raw reaction. That seems like $1,600 for a toilet is way, way, way more than a. I would ever spend.

Now, have you used the new toilet? I have not. So maybe I should withhold judgment until I've used it. I can't imagine how much better it would be to make me – because what's a toilet? Like $300, $300 or something? Oh, you can get a decent toilet for $150, probably. Oh, you could have toilets in every room with this house.

Is that what you're saying? In every single room in this house, you could have a toilet. Don't worry about the plumbing or anything. You could set a toilet in every room. No, go ahead and get it plumbed. Oh, that's going to cost a lot more. No, my feedback would be, you guys must be doing really, really well. Wow.

It's like the airport. That's his sassy thing. When someone buys something really nice, like in something that he would not purchase, like anybody, if they've got a boat or a brand new car or anything, you must be doing really, really well. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that, yeah, that's my take on it is that I would never do it.

But at some point, you know, people buy airplane hangers that don't have licenses. So people buy stuff they don't need. But it's comfortable for them and they like having it. So I'm fully supportive of the $1,600 toilet. Does it help that we bought it thanks to the pyramid scheme that we're running? Oh, the pig butter. Well, yeah, because that airplane hanger, like, that's not really their hard-earned money. So does that make it better?

Yeah, that's just part of that lawyer's money that he gave. Yeah. NY Titch wants to know, Mr. D.P., how do I find a good husband? Ah, there's some, he needs some dating advice. Yeah, I tell you what, you are asking the right guy. Ask a 67-year-old guy that has been married for 43 years about, finding a husband and you know that's got I'm going to have some rock

solid advice yeah but you're shooting down offers left and right from women well I had to for a long time but you know eventually you age and people are like I don't know whether I need any of that they see you lift take off your hoodie and they're like well whoa

they see you in the restaurant they're like oh my god maybe I won't talk to that guy it's like that Mark Harmon thing right it's like whoa I'm out on that no so this this This person's looking for advice on finding a husband. They want some good qualities for finding a husband. How do you find a husband?

See, I'm sure there are good websites available for that. Craigslist. Yeah, Craigslist would be a good. It's probably the best one. Uh-huh. I don't know about that. So, boy, I really, I don't know. I absolutely don't know.

It's not my, not my area of expertise. How old is this lady that's looking? Well, I have no idea. Oh, we don't. We don't ask people's ages in the Discord. Well, I would probably have some excellent advice. She's at least 13 years old. We know that.

You have to be at least 13 to join Discord. And this could be a dude, NY Titch. Yeah, that's true. You know, I'm just really let down because you acted like you had a lot of expertise and then we just, you know, throw you kind of a softball and you got nothing. Well, oh, wait a minute. Now, here's the question you can answer. As if I haven't answered all these others?

Doodaloo wants to know. What is the secret to relationship bliss? You and Shereira sound like a very healthy and happy couple. What's the secret, D.P? Well, we absolutely are. And the secret is to be patient with each other. Because if you can't be patient, if you're going to have so high expectation the person can't live up to them, that's not going to work.

They're going to mess up. Now, there are mess ups that would end of marriage, obviously, but they're going to mess up. You've got to work at it. You've got to find out what the other person needs, wants and desires, and try to help them with that. For example, Sherry wants coffee in the morning. I get up and make her coffee every morning.

Oh, isn't that sweet? Adorable. But seriously, it is about not being, you know, just staying in your own lane and doing, I do what I want to do. She does what she wants to do. No, that doesn't work. You've got to find common ground.

You've got to find things you enjoy doing together because, well, for example, we both like to go camping and hiking and four-wheeling. And the more kind of stuff you enjoy doing together, the better off it is. Now, that doesn't mean everything because Sherry does not like sports. She watches baseball a little bit. She'll watch football just because you live in Kansas City. you have to watch football now. But you've got to find those commonalities and then at the same time give space for

when, like, I shouldn't expect her to want to watch every football game I want to watch. That's just not going to happen. Yeah. So, but patience and kindness and put yourself in their shoes, all the kind of things you'd have in any relationship. That's what you got to do. Dad, I've come up with a new career for you. I think this would be amazing.

There are so many wonderful reality shows. Like love is blind, all these dating shows. And what they need is a sassy man to tell it like it is to some of these couples. I think that could be you. You can be that man. I'm ready. Have you got anything specific in mind? I have no connections.

I've got nothing lined up. I'm just thinking you could really tell some people off in a funny way that I think would be good television. I'll put my agent on that, see if he can leave me up. You know, Dr. Hubert Montgomery is my agent. Is that right? How's that working out for you? Very good. I'm on this podcast. He's doing a great job.

Okay. Real estate question for you. Okay. a home. It frustrates me when some people, like, they feel like the home has so much emotional attachment for them. It sounds like these people are ready to leave, so there's not going to be a ton of emotional attachment because the times I've seen things kind of fall apart is when people, oh, we've raised our kids in this house, you know, and they think it's worth way more than it is. And what about my apple orchard out back? And, you know, they've got stuff

that people just don't care about. And so it's a matter of understanding. what you've got and listening to some outside advice on what it's worth. So you can sell it because the people who can't sell their houses, either they want too much or they don't want to do anything to fix it up or anything like that. So my recommendation is get it on the market at a reasonable cost, do an estate sale to get rid of your stuff. If you're starting fresh, take the precious heirlooms that you want to Pennsylvania. I think they were moving to Pennsylvania. Yeah. Precious moments figurines.

They should keep those. You got to have those. Yeah. And in fact, stop by Carthage, Missouri, where they have those, they make those. And pick up some more. You're going to want more for the new house. It's going to be only slightly out of your way. Yeah.

So swing by there. But also, I always hope that when somebody says something like that, that they're not trying to get away from something. Like, there's something they don't like about Texas that, unless it's weather is going to just follow you. If you've got, you know, issues around something within your relationship or anything like that, don't move for that reason. Move for... Trying to, like, run away from your problems.

Yeah, don't run away from your problems. But if you've got a good reason to be in Pennsylvania, you know, I hope they don't become Phillies fans. That's the only thing I worry about. It'd be a damn shame. It'd be a damn shame. Now, you've had some real estate clients who were... very against making changes to their home when it was on the market. So you would give advice like, hey, maybe you should paint this room.

Maybe you should get rid of some of this furniture. How do you deal with people like that? Well, you can tell real early on when you suggest that most people might find this maroon, you know, 1881 dining room a little too strong and maybe it could be more of a beige color because you want to appeal to the broadest number of people. When they argue with you about that, you know, you don't need to give them any other advice. You just give them a price. Yeah.

And you say, and they say, well, we think it could be $15,000 more, $20,000 more. Well, if I was doing it, I might make some changes, but it sounds like you're not interested in doing changes. Because in people's mind, they think everyone sees the world, the way they see the world. Yeah. And I've had numerous people argue with me about outdated paint colors, about wallpaper that looks bad. And they just don't want to either they think everyone has their same taste or they just don't have the energy to do it or the money to do it. And in those cases, you kind of help bring them down to a point where we can have the price at something that's going to sell. Or you say, great.

let's start at that point and let's give it a couple of months and see what kind of feedback we get because in the Kansas City market, I think most markets, people can give feedback on the house. And many times people will say, oh, you know what, it's really dated and I don't like the colors and too much wallpaper to take off and they'll give you some of that feedback. Right. Which what you hope is it's exactly what you have told them. And sometimes they come up with different reasons they don't want the house. Now, do you ever rub it in their face?

Like, ha, ha, I told you so. I like to do a sing-songy. Told you so, told you so. My real estate agent is belittling me. No, so as a part-time agent after I retired and it didn't really need the money, I'd lose clients because, you know, I could tell that they're not going to. Because you did the song and dance and they just said, you know, he didn't have to do full choreo for this. He didn't.

He didn't. And he pulls his hoodie up and shows his belly. What's up with that? Some people don't appreciate your talents. It's true. I've noticed that. I've noticed that. Well, when we sell this house, I'm not taking down the Linda Evans advertisement behind you.

No, because that adds value to the house. And people will ask, will that stay? And you'll say, for a price, buck-oh. Hey, Norman, I have told you that this microphone is in blocking my view of Linda Evans when you're on camera. Yeah. There's nothing more disappointing than seeing a microphone and your mug and not seeing. Wow.

Oh. You're trying to look at Linda Evans. I want to look at Linda Evans. You know, you can take that home with you if you want. Oh, I don't think Sherry would appreciate that. I don't think she would either. I think that goes in your little workout room. Oh, workout room.

So not on the nightstand. Gross. Imagine a nice ice cold glass of crystal light after a workout. Dad, thank you for being on the show. Yeah, thanks for being a guest. Glad to be on this history podcast. A new history podcast. Ah, right.

I have a blast doing this. This might be my last time. Unless the, unless the crowds just. Oh, boy. If you put another Patreon level on above pig butter, DP investor. Should I come back as a guest? I don't know. Do people like this?

Reach out and tell me. What do you think? My God. You know, what I'm disappointed in is I get no negative feelings. I have not noticed any negative feedback. All right, history hose. You know what to do. I bet I could give your negative feedback.

Let them have it. Yeah, please. If I just get, I get negative feedback from you, from Kyla, and from Sherey, Ray, sometimes. So that's all I need, though. I just, I don't need negative feedback from the hose. Oh, you know what? People, okay, people have asked, because you and I were going to do a podcast together, ask an old white guy. People always ask what happened with that.

I'll tell the hose right now. This man doxed himself twice. Well, but you can take that. You've still got that in the can. Why don't you put that out there? This is a one episode podcast. Yeah, we have one episode of this podcast. Do it as a bonus episode for the history hose.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, they might enjoy that. They might. That's all you two. I'm just the guy that hits the record button for that podcast. Wow. Norm's backing away slowly as we talk. Well, no. Thank you for being on.

Yeah, thanks for coming on. Had a blast. Always enjoy spending time with you guys. It's fun. If we can just keep Norman's mind out of the gutter, it would be nice, but he is what he is. I know. Unfortunately, it's true. Dad, you know what they say about history hoes?

We always cite our sources. What do you got there? Okay, here's what I've got to tell you. All those things I made up, they are totally made up. Now, I will say that I didn't bring the page that has my bibliography. I will give it to you, though. You will get my bibliography, which did include some newspaper articles with titles that would give away what I was saying. So I wasn't able to give you.

Joe, please keep the music going as he's saying all this. I hope the song's long enough. Yeah. We can loop it again. I will not be able to announce them right now. but I will send them to you and they'll be in the feed. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast.

Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, our slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old-Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individual. individually on Instagram. She is the lovely Kristen Pitts-Karuso. I go by Gaming Historian. D.P. Do you out of Instagram? You want to pull? No, he's not on Instagram. I think I'm on there,

but I don't know where it is. Just search double penetration on Instagram. You'll find him. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio. Bye. Sexy times.