An Old Timey Podcast - 57: Windshield Wipers! (Patreon Bonus)

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Picture it. Ontario. 1953. It was Robert and Phyllis Kearns’ wedding night. Bob did his best to open the champagne, but the cork shot out and smacked him square in the eye. He screamed! Phyllis screamed! There was blood everywhere! Bob ultimately went blind in that eye, but the experience got him thinking about eyes and how they work. So, years later, when he was driving in the rain and his one-speed windshield wipers went too fast for the sprinkle, he thought to himself, “I wish windshield wipers worked more like an eyelid.” And since Bob had a PhD in mechanical engineering, he immediately got to work on the first intermittent windshield wiper. Things went great for a minute! …and then they got terrible.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The flash of genius,” by John Seabrook for The New Yorker“Inventor Winning Long Legal Battle With Auto Maker : Patents: Robert Kearns developed the intermittent windshield wiper more than 20 years ago. He claims the car companies stole his idea.” by James Risen for the Los Angeles Times“An obsession with justice and auto parts,” by Michael Cieply for The New York Times“Accomplished, frustrated inventor dies,” by Matt Schudel for the Washington Post“The epic, decades-long battle between Ford and a small-time inventor,” by Zachary Crockett for The Hustle“Wiper man Robert Kearns won his patent fight with Ford, but that didn’t mean he was out of the woods,” by Ken Gross for People.com“Alabama woman stuck in NYC traffic in 1902 invented the windshield wiper,” by Joe Palca for NPR“Who made that windshield wiper?” by Dashka Slater for The New York Times Magazine

Hello there. Bonjourno. You know something, we are taking the month off, but we're putting out some of our favorite bonus episodes every Wednesday in the main feed. And this one, I know it sounds boring. I know you saw the title about windshield wipers and you thought, I'll pass. Don't you dare pass on this one. This story is outrageous. It's about a man who does a great thing.

And then bad things happen and he handles himself very, very poorly. Kristen, I got to tell you, some of our best episodes are about some of the best episodes are about some. of the most mundane things you can think of. Okay. It's true. You're going to look at windshield wipers in a whole new way and I know you think about windshield wipers constantly. Sometimes I get in car wrecks because I'm just focused on the windshield wipers. We've all been there, Norm. We hope you enjoy this episode and we really hope you enjoy it so much that you decide, my God, I got to have more of these two. I got to get on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast and reap the rewards of joining the community.

Norm, tell them why they should join now. In the month of June, we're doing a special promotion, our $10 pig butter investor tier, which gets you ad-free episodes, video episodes, 10% off merch, signed card and stickers, access to our trivia. Access to trivia. They can play trivia.

It's a whole thing. Absolutely. It's 50% off in the month of June. Only $5. Gets you all that. My goodness. And also, for our current patrons, Don't worry, baby. We got you. We're still putting out a bonus episode in June. We're still having

trivia. We're still having fun. And we will see you in July. See ya. Bye. Hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I turn off the tap water while brushing my teeth. It's Normie C. Oh, and on this episode, I'll be talking about windshield wipers. Hey, it's the episode you asked for, it's much requested. Everybody's asking about windshield wipers, and I said, shut up, okay, I'll do it. Fine. God.

Hey, I've used windshield wipers before. Yeah, yeah. You want to hear a lot about them? Sure. Why aren't you inquiring about my amazing proclamation in the beginning of this episode? Well, okay, I'm not inquiring because I just want to heap some praise on you. I have wondered, how is this planet still? spinning. How are we still here? It's because of you, Norman, because you turn off the tap water

while you're brushing your teeth, and that's why we're still here. Thank you, Norm. You're welcome. Okay, so I was brushing my teeth the other day, and I use a toothpaste called Sensadine. Uh-huh. Shout out to Sensadine. Not sponsored. Not sponsored. I used to get really bad canker sores. I used to get canker sores all the time. And then my dentist was like, Like, maybe you should switch to a sensitive toothpaste like Sensadine. And I was like, okay, I have not had a canker sore since, unless I bite the inside of my mouth. But anyway, besides my point, I was brushing my teeth with Sensadine.

And I was bored, so I was reading the tube like you do. Okay. And it had a little symbol that was like, save the planet, turn off the water while brushing. And I was just like, wait a minute. Do people leave water running while they brush their teeth? Yes. Yes. And they are ridiculous.

But why? Because they don't know that we're all in this together. That's why. But you're... I know. I know. It's maddening. I need a reason why people leave the water running while they brush their teeth.

You're not actively using the water. So turn it off. Yeah, I know. I know. I was just, it just seemed so bizarre to me that sense it. had to include that little symbol on their tube for these idiots that run the water while they brush their teeth. You know what I'm really noticing in this whole thing? What?

Okay, so everyone, Norm has been like doing more of a digital minimalism thing, like cutting back on internet usage. And now I know the side effect of that is you start reading the back of your toothpaste tube. Hey, that's what I did when I was younger. I know, I did too. If I was sitting in the bathroom, you know, I'd read the shampoo bottle. when you're taking a Mondo duke and, you know, maybe it's not coming out so easily. Okay, wow. You start reading whatever you can find in the bathroom.

What does herbal essences have to say about itself? What are the ingredients of cool mint listerine? Are we ready to get going here? Yeah, it's the bonus episode. I figure it's a little more cash. It is cash. That's why I'm in this Hawaiian shirt. I just imagined you in a Hawaiian punch commercial.

Remember those from the 90s? Yeah. Do you think I'd fit in? You would fit in if you had a Hawaiian shirt on, definitely. Okay. I'm imagining like 12-year-old Kristen. Yeah, definitely. Thank you.

Wow. I don't know why my self-esteem got really caught up in that question, but it was there. I felt real vulnerable. I would hope I would fit in in one of those commercials. I mean, that's basically the barometer of, like, like if you're going to succeed in life. And it's like, can I be in a Hawaiian punch commercial? And if the answer is yes, you're going to do well.

Who can't be in one? You have to answer now because you've said that anyone who is in one. Well, it was a joke. I was just joking. I know, but we got to get to the bottom of this. The joke is how ridiculous it would be if that was the measure of success in life. Everyone. Let's begin our episode, shall we?

As someone who has known Norm for many years, let me just tell you what this means. What this means is Norm did think of the kind of kid who couldn't be included in the commercial, but he doesn't want to say because it's too judgy. Some people weren't brought up with judgment in their lives like I was. All right. You ready? Yes. Windshield wipers.

Yeah. What have windshield wipers done throughout history? What do you mean? What have they done throughout history? They've wiped windshields. My God, it's in the name. When were the first windshield wipers invented? I guess you're going to tell me.

Do you really think I'm back going to tell? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, just hang on. I'm going to guess 19th century. Give me a year. Come on. 1873.

Wow. And they were hand crank windshield wipers. You had to crank them. Uh-huh. They were on like little boats and stuff. Little boats. Mm-hmm. All right.

Let's see if you're right. Picture it! the year? 1953. No way. What do you mean? No way. 1953?

I'm not saying, I'm telling you the beginning of my story. I'm not saying this is the year that when shieldwifers were invented. Okay, that's fine. If you wouldn't mind just sitting and listening for a bit. Okay. Hey, wait, shouldn't we thank the patrons? Yes. We forgot to thank the patrons.

Thank you, patrons. Thank you. If you're listening to this, thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it. You're keeping this podcast going, just like Norm's keeping the world going, by turning off his water when he brushes his teeth. So thank you for that. Thank you for supporting this small, independent podcast. I like how you call us that.

A small, independent, sexy podcast. Well, you added sexy, but yes. I did. I did. You know what? Yeah, we can include that now. Sure. Why not? Because remember, as we said, if you listen to this podcast, you are so sexy.

Yeah. And we listen to it through the editing process. Therefore, we are sexy. These are the rules. Okay. Picture it. The year, 1953. The United States has withdrawn from the Korean War. Okay. And I don't mean to get anyone steamed up, but the fact is, it was Robert and Phyllis Kearn's wedding night. Whoa, whoa! Whoa, wait a minute, I have a sound for that. Do you? Yeah. I'm about to bust.

You do. And the setting couldn't have been more romantic. They had a room at an adorable little inn in Ontario. What are they going to do in there? Sexy times. Oh, well, Dad, you're right. Thank you. Phyllis was in the bathroom, slipping into something a little more comfortable.

and meanwhile Bob was on the edge of the bed opening up a bottle of champagne. At least that's what he was trying to do. I thought that might have been a euphemism for like he was warming up. Norman. Get fluffin or? He was fluffing. Now, before I go any further, let me just say maybe it was Bob's first time opening champagne. And maybe since the end of it.

internet didn't exist. Bob had never seen a bottle of champagne opened before. You know, you just don't know what his life experience was. Are these more euphemisms for sex? No, it's not euphemism. This is, it's a literal bottle of champagne norm. Okay. It's their honeymoon night, you know? Okay. It made it seem like you were saying he didn't know how to have sex because he had never been on the internet before. That could also be true. I have no idea. They did have books back then, though. They did have books. Or, you know, father-son talks. Sure, sure.

But, yeah, it is entirely possible that this was his first time having sex and also the first time he opened champagne. A lot of first. Uh-huh. First marriage? First marriage. Okay. Yeah. Very special day then for Bob.

So anyway, he's working on this champagne. And no, Norm quit smiling. No, he's working on the champagne. He's working on opening this champagne. And he's working and working and working on. cork, all of a sudden, boom! The cork shot out of the bottle. It rocketed right into Bob's eyeball.

Boom. So he screamed on himself. You've got to be messing with me right now. I am not messing with you. I'm telling you a real story. I think you're fucking with me right now. What would the point be? Because you're a trickster.

Anyway, the cork shot. into his eyeball, Norm, and it was a cork. Okay, not anything else. Sure. Shot into his eyeball. Yep. He's screaming. There's blood everywhere, spurting out of his eyeball all over the bed.

It was a mess. Man, he must say came hard. Stop it. Phyllis comes rushing out of the bathroom, and as soon as she saw all the blood and the chaos, she was also like, ah! Oh, it's quite a start to there. marriage. Bob went blind in his left eye as a result of that accident, Norm. Wow. Well.

What? Nothing. Do you have any apologies you'd like to make? Nope. To Bob or to the listeners? Did this story come from him? What do you mean? Is he the only source of this information?

What are you talking about? Are you still thinking that this is a story about some guy jerking it? It could be. It's a real story. Okay. Well, maybe he was a little embarrassed that he came all over himself, so he substituted in a champagne bottle instead. You think he went blind from cum in his eyeball? If you don't get water on it immediately, you could affect the eye.

I think there'd be a lot more blind people in this world. You're actually really right about that. This is disgusting. I know. This is an episode for the holidays, Norm. dare you. Hey, it's a bonus episode. Oh, so all bets are off. Sorry, folks. Okay, so he went nearly blind in his left eye. Are you happy, Norm? Okay, so the cork shot in his left eye, bleeding everywhere, he went blind. Okay. In that eye. In the left eye. Yeah. Now that is awful,

but this is one of those stories where someone turns an adversity into an asset. I cannot believe how wild this story has been so far. Here I was telling a wild enough tale. Then you made it weird and sexual. Well, it's the way you wrote it. The way I wrote it. Yes. It's the way it happened.

But you made it... I just thought we were going down one path. That's all. Okay. You see, Norm, Bob was an inventor. Or at least he'd always tried to be. He was a super smart guy. In World War II, he'd been a member of the Office of Strategic Services.

which was basically the CIA before the CIA. We know about the OSS. Okay. Julia Childs. That's right. Was a member of the OSS. She says she was just doing paperwork, boring stuff. But isn't that what you would say if you were also doing really exciting stuff?

Yeah. We know she went behind enemy lines and seduced top-ranking Nazis. Ew. Future topic? Wait. Future topic? Afterward, he got his bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Detroit, and then he got his master's degree in mechanical engineering from Wayne State University,

and then, after he and Phyllis had been married for a few years, he began working on his Ph.D. from Case Western Reserve. In the early years of their marriage, Bob tinkered around with all kinds of inventions. He invented a comb that was supposed to dispense hair product as you used it. That's not a bad idea. Yeah, also not a great idea. But, you know. So, yeah, in order to get on the market, it needs to be great.

And his ideas were just good. I don't know. I mean, he invented a voice amplifier. He invented a navigational system that he thought the U.S. military might find useful. They didn't, but, you know, he sure had hoped it. Because it was a monkey with a megaphone. Just shouting directions. And you just shove it in the glove compartment.

Yeah, it just shouts directions. He tried a bunch of stuff. And none of it really panned out. But that never got him down. He was full of energy and curiosity. And he believed in the importance of innovation. So he kept trying. Do you remember those commercials when we were a kid of, like,

it was like a caveman, like, tinkering on a, like a wheel and was like, do you have an invention and need a patent? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like an 800 number, right? Yeah. And he turns the wheel into like this like rocket thing and he shoots off the screen.

I remember thinking, man, be so cool if I could invent something and make a lot of money. I would call this number. I remember wanting to invent something too. And I remember really racking my brain for a couple of afternoons and coming up with nothing. Me too. Yeah, I could never think of anything. I always messed around with Legos though. I thought, surely I can create something incredible.

And it turns out the answer was a podcast where your wife is telling you about a man going blind in his eye on his wedding night, and you're telling her, that's got to become related. It has to be. This is our invention. I just think he was embarrassed, so. So by the time he was 35, he and Phyllis had four children, and they were living on the north side of Detroit. and Bob was commuting to Cleveland for his Ph.D. program. Ooh, man. Yeah.

Quite a commute. Money was tight. They had a big family, and Bob didn't make a ton of money as a Ph.D. student, obviously. But that certainly didn't stop him from trying to come up with the next big thing. And then, one day, in November of 1962, Bob got an idea. Ooh. He was driving his Ford Galaxy when it started to sprinkle. Ford Galaxy?

Yeah. Do you know about the Ford Galaxy? I do. I had a buddy in high school who drove a 1957 Ford Galaxy. Holy shit. So I was just about to ask, when did they stop making those? Because, like, I was pretty sure I hadn't heard of the Ford Galaxy. Probably in the 60s they stopped making them.

Oh, man, it was such a piece of junk. Like, it barely worked. but it was a very cool car. I'm sure it looked amazing. But it broke all the time. But he was very proud of that Ford Galaxy. I would be too. I think the design of cars in like the 50s and 60s

has just a cool look to me. I remember it just had like this just massive backseat, a massive front seat. Yeah. Yeah, like red leather for the seats. No seat belts to hold you down. No, it was just a huge. huge vehicle.

Oh yeah, they were tanks. Yeah. So he's driving his Ford Galaxy when all of a sudden it started to sprinkle. And that doesn't seem like a big deal, but in the early 60s, it kind of was. Because back then, windshield wipers were way different from how we know them today. Really? Yes. So let's pause for a brief history of the windshield wiper.

Oh, okay. I'm excited for this. I want to know if I was right. Picture it. Twas the winter of 1902. Ooh. Just missed the 19th century guess. And an Alabama woman named Mary Anderson was visiting New York City, and she was riding in a streetcar.

And that day, you know, just wet, nasty snow fell from the sky. Oh, clumps of it. Sleady, just a mess. And the trolleys had two pained windshe. at the time. And of course, these windshields were caked with sleet and snow. Yeah, I bet. Which meant that the trolley drivers, if they wanted to see, and my God, I hope they did, they either had to kind of open the two panes and try to like peek between them so that they could catch a glimpse of where they were going, or they had to stop the trolley altogether and knock the

snow off the windshield. It was very time-consuming, very dangerous. What if someone's on the trolley and they have a guitar lesson? They're going to be late. You can't be late for your guitar lesson. Don't stop this damn trolley. So Mary watched this and then she said the thing that by law, all inventors are required to say. Do you know what it is? Eureka.

No, no. No, this is when you first see the problem. Obviously, by law, you have to say Eureka when you think of the idea. But when you first see the problem. There's got to be a better one. Yes, there's got to be a better way. That's what you have to say. Okay.

So, Eureka, she invented one. She sketched out something pretty similar to what we have today. I mean, not exactly, but, you know, still, it was a squeegee wiper to run across the outside of the windshield. And there was a lever inside the vehicle, which could control it. So I was right. It was a hand crank. I mean, basically, yeah. Yeah.

So she came up with a mechanism that involved. She evolved a spring and a wait, and that kept the squeegee pressed up against the windshield. And she called it a window cleaning device. She got herself a patent, which was granted in 1903, and from there, nothing happened. Really? I figured trolleys around the U.S. would be lining up for that thing. Yeah. It's a great idea.

Yeah. She tried to get people interested. She specifically tried to get car manufacturers. Well, absolutely. When the Model T rolled around, I'm sure she was like, hey, Henry Ford, maybe you could stop being so anti-Semitic and purchase these windshield wipers instead or window cleaning devices. Oh, wait, did they just steal the idea and say, oh, but ours works differently? Hmm. No. We don't use a lever. We use a button. And that's way different. So you can't even be mad. No. So there's a couple reasons.

why people think that her idea didn't take off. Well, for one thing, when she wrote to these companies, they tended to tell her, eh, we just don't see any commercial value in this. Oh, interesting. So one thought is a lot of vehicles at this time were kind of open air. Right. And so there was this.

So you wouldn't drive in the rain anyway. I think that's kind of where people were thinking of like, you know, Yeah. If it's raining, I'm not driving. I'm just not going anywhere. Yeah. There's also sexism at play. Like, okay, this little lady came up with something. All right. You know, meh. Who cares? There's also an argument that like, hey, you're trying to drive this thing. And also you've got to do a little hand crank thing with your free hand. I mean, that's kind of cumbersome. Bottom line, people weren't interested. They thought it was a dumb idea. Well, the other thing I was thinking was it would be hard to make money on that because you just include it with the car. But you don't necessarily want to raise the price of the car. And then it would kind of become a standard feature of a car. And so it's like, hmm, there's not a lot of, there is not a lot of money in this.

It's just something we have to add to cars now. So that's where you're wrong. Really? So back then especially, it was all about keeping that base price low. Right. And so, you know, you want the base model, but they would have all these upgrades that you could do. Oh, oh, I know all about this. What do you mean you know all about this?

Because I've been looking at buying a new table saw for my woodworking. Okay. And that's how they get you, Kristen. The add-ons. The base model reasonably priced. Yeah. You can have the baked potato. Do you want it loaded?

It'll cost you. Yeah. Do you want the overarmed dust collection? Well, yeah. Do you want the optional router table attachment? Damn right, I do. Do you want the extension wings? Yes.

Do you want a better fence? Yes. The price triples. Yeah. By the time you're done adding everything. Yeah. So that's how they did cars back then. Yeah.

I guess you can see. And they still kind of do that today. If you buy it, yeah, from the manufacturer, definitely. So anyway, she comes up. with this very, very good idea, but no one sees the value in it. Damn. Tale as old as time. Then, in 1916, a guy named John O'Shea was driving his car in the rain with no windshield wipers,

because we can all agree those things are a terrible idea. What was Mary thinking? Oh, God. Women. So, he's driving along, rains pouring down. It's a mess. And then, boom! He hits a...

cyclist. Oh, no. The cyclist was fine, thank God. But John was like, oh my God, I could have killed that guy. There's got to be a better way. And then he thought of something. Or he saw Mary Anderson's patent and was like, ooh, I'm going to steal this. So here's a thing.

Here's the thing about John. He wasn't much of an inventor at all. He was a businessman. As in he loved scooping up patents and buying up new technology. Oh, God. I hate these people. Well, yeah, okay. I hate patent trolls and people, yeah, they just buy patents and try to make money off them.

Coming from the world of gaming a story, and this shit gets so old, so fast. By the way, did he fess up to hitting that cyclist? I mean, yeah, I don't think that this was a big cover-up if that's what you're asking. Did he come clean? What? As the rain fell down. Let the rain fall down. I should have known you were gearing up to sing that song.

Oh, I'm coming clean. Freddie that cyclist in the rain. He was a businessman. So he started selling windshield wipers. I mean, the story is kind of like, he found this local company that was already kind of doing it. So he found another company to market it. You hate this guy.

I'll just tell you right now. I hate him already. And, you know, people kind of liked them. They were better than nothing. If you were crazy enough to drive in the rain, which, you know, I guess very few people were willing to do back then. But these windshield wipers weren't great by any means. No. Why are you smiling at me?

Oh, and you said, like, people weren't willing to drive in the rain. I'm thinking of that. What? For some reason, I'm thinking of that video of the two women who are looking for the candle store. Because they were driving in the rain, right? It was two old ladies driving in the rain. It looked to be like they looked like they were lost in a storage facility. It looked like a storage unit facility.

But they were looking for the candle store. They were looking for the candle store. And they turned left and went off and overhang. They were fine. They were fine. It sounded like a horrible crash in accident. And then the one lady just goes, oh, what happened? Like, all casual, like.

Little old ladies, you see it all the time. They come back from the grocery store. There's blood on the hood. They're missing a fender. And they're like, I don't know. Someone must have hit my car in the parking lot. I did feel a bump. I wonder what that was.

So, picture, these are old timey times. And with John's invention, which wasn't really his invention, but whatever. When you drove, you had to have one hand on the wheel, one hand on the stick, and if you wanted to use your newfangled windshield wiper, you, I guess, got your third hand involved somehow to operate that. It was kind of a mess. Yeah.

So all of that led a guy named William Falbeth to say, Let's go to court? What, no. There's got to be a better way. Oh. He invented the first. ever automatic windshield wiper. His windshield wipers weren't hand-operated.

They were vacuum-powered, and that made them a lot more user-friendly. Oh. It is kind of funny. They did eventually go to court with one another. I mean, yeah, all right. So eventually, legal drama in 1925, John bought Williams' idea for a million dollars. Adjusted for inflation, by the way. $18 million.

Whoa. Very expensive. So from then on, for like years and years and years and years, windshield wipers did not evolve, not in a big, meaningful way. So by the time the 1960s rolled around, most cars had windshield wipers that ran at one speed. And if you had a really fancy car, you had two speeds. Ooh. You had kind of fast and really super fast. What's the big difference?

I mean, not much, but the important thing is, if you're really only using these in heavy rain, then you're kind of screwed if it starts to sprinkle or you've just got a little something on your car. Yeah, I do hate when you have to, like, figure out the right speed of the windshield wiper. Yeah. Drives me crazy. You kind of wish that one day we'll have smart windshield wipers? There's got to be a better way, Kristen. Stop the episode right now.

Norm's got to get to tinkering. I've done it. To hell with this podcast. Oh, wow. Norm, you haven't invented it yet, so I just... Right, and I have no idea what I'm doing either. Yeah, I'd keep going with the podcast for a while. So, like I said, those old-fashioned wipers were just fine when it rained really hard,

but they were terrible when it was sprinkling. And sometimes the engine would get overheated and the windshield wipers wouldn't work. So, you know, it was kind of a mess. but when it was just sprinkling, those wipers would move across the glass way too fast and they'd screech back and forth and screech back. I hate it. I hate it. Yes. That's what I can't stand. It's like I need to lube up the windshield wiper. Yes. Yes. It's, okay, best case scenario, it's super annoying. Worst case scenario, it's dangerous because you're not using your windshield wipers as you should or you're, you know, getting transfixed by these annoying things.

Anyway, so Bob, who had been unable to see out of his left eye for nearly a decade at this point, he'd spent a lot of time thinking about the human eye. And as he drove through that light drizzle with his windshield wiper screeching and doing a shit job, he thought to himself, There's got to be a better way. That's right. But I need more enthusiasm, Norm. There's got to be a better way.

Yeah, thank you. Like you've seen an infomercial before. So he's like, I wish windshield wipers worked more like a human eyelid. You know, the beauty of an eyelid is that it's not like it blinks at one speed. You can blink your eyelid when you need to. Beautiful, Norm. For those listening to the audio version, I'm just blinking very fast. Beautifully.

As Bob drove, he thought to himself, I wish that windshield wipers were like that. I wish you could change up their speed based on the conditions. And of course, because he was an inventor, that wasn't just a passing thought. That was his eureka moment. He realized that what the market needed was a brand new, intermittent windshield wiper. Wow, Bob was so excited! Yes, this is what people are clamoring for. First of all, you know, he thought it was a great idea.

But secondly, he was excited about this idea, it was an idea for the automotive industry. Money. Dollar signs. Well, actually, you're a little too cynical, Normie C. Bob was excited because he was a true Michigan boy. Oh, well, yeah, Motor City. Yes. He lives in the Motor City. He grew up just outside of Detroit. He came of age at a time when America's automotive industry was, I mean, arguably at its peak. Everyone he knew worked for Ford or Chrysler or GM. And there was a lot of pride in being part of that industry. And also a lot of pride in innovating for that industry.

But he saw dollar signs too. Well, of course. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Let's cut the bullshit, Krista. Wow. Okay.

You're like a Bob truth or you're like, I know that was come in your eye, Bob. And I know you saw dollar signs that night in the rain. Of course he did. Well, yeah, I'm not saying he didn't, but I'm saying a big factor. was he was excited to do something that would involve him in the automotive industry. Sure, sure. So, oh, excuse me. Okay.

Yes. So, for example, growing up, the dad of one of his friends invented a new kind of car door handle, basically the kind we all have now. Yeah. So before that, most car door handles had a push button on the front. Oh, I remember those. Yeah, I remember them too. But they were pretty dangerous because if the car rolled, The door might fly open.

And, you know, this was before seatbelt. So you'd be rolling all over the place. Yeah. Goodbye family. Jeez, Kristen. Wait a minute. I have a sad trombone for that. Splat cabloy.

Goodbye family. So Bob grew up around the industry. He'd seen people have success innovating for that industry. And he knew that if he could figure out how to make a new kind of winchie, Wiper, he could live the dream. Meaning, he'd start up a factory in Detroit, he'd employ a bunch of people, and they'd make windshield wipers for the car industry, and it'd be great. Yes.

Okay. The dream. Mm-hmm. You like it? Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking of my new windshield wiper idea. Are you thinking about a little factory you'd like to have? I'll have a little factory right here in Kansas City.

Wow. Right next to the Russell Stover Company, hopefully. A boy can dream Pop over, get to have some chocolate, you know. But first, before the dream, you got to brainstorm. Bob created an office for himself in his basement. And every weekend, he sat down there with his feet up, just thinking. Got to have an office.

And then he got to work using a mix of transistors, capacitors, capacitors, resistors. I don't know what I'm talking about, but these are all off-the-shelf electronics. and he's pairing them together doing what he needs to do. Don't ask any more questions. He filled 23, 300-page books with findings from his basement experiments, just writing stuff down. Wow.

By the summer of 1963, he'd made pretty good progress. He'd created a little model of this brand-new type of windshield wiper. They were pretty incredible. Bob's windshield wipers could vary in speed according to what the driver wanted. When he was ready to test his design in the real world, he put it in a little red box and he installed it onto his Ford Galaxy. On the front of the box, he wrote the following message. For engineering tests only. Do not open.

Proprietary design. Property of Kern's engineers. From that point forward, Norm, it was game on. Bob discovered pretty early on that there was no better test for his windshield wipers than real rain. He tried using just regular tap water. He tried to... Just like a hose or a sprinkler. But he discovered like, it's just not the same. It doesn't have the same elasticity.

You need the constant downpour. Which, whenever I watch movies and there's like a rain scene, I know they have those rain machines in Hollywood. I always try to figure out if they're using a rain machine or not. Do you feel like you're pretty good at spotting it? Kind of, because sometimes you'll, you can kind of... Sometimes it looks weird, doesn't it? Yeah, and you can like look beyond the scene.

and you can see it's like maybe not raining in the background. I know the tricks of Hollywood. I know what they're up to. Did you know Space Jam? Michael Jordan when he did that slam dunk at the end and stretched his arm. That wasn't actually his arm. Shut up. Yeah, that was animation tricks.

Way to ruin that movie for everyone who is listening slash watching. You want to talk about a culturally. impactful movie. Space Jam. I feel like everyone watched Space Jam. Do you want to hear something wild? What? I never saw Space Jam. What?

You didn't? You never watched Space Jam? Yeah, it's about sports. I wasn't into it. History hose. What do I do with this? You had to take your headphones off for this? What do I do with this information? You look like you're ready to divorce me.

I entered into this marriage under false pretenses. I thought she watched Space Jam. You need to understand something, Your Honor. She never watched Space Jam. Man, that's crazy to me. I feel like I watched that movie multiple times. I'm sure you did.

I'm sure you did. Oh, gosh. I don't know how I'm going to continue this episode, but go on. Okay. Thank you for being so brave. A brave little toaster. By the way, a movie I saw it multiple times. Did you know it's not a real toaster? It's an animated film.

What? Thanks, Norm. Way to ruin everything. So because Bob decided, okay, real rain is best, any time it started raining, literally any time he and Phyllis would drop everything and go drive their car in the rain to test out his invention. Phyllis was so proud of her husband.

She'd drive around Detroit and the rain, both hands on top of the steering wheel, just to show anyone who might be looking that she wasn't switching the wipers on and off. She was using the best, smartest windshield wipers known to man. Isn't that sweet? Check this out. Ooh. I kind of love that.

Yeah, that is sweet. By that fall, Bob was pretty sure that his invention was ready for prime time. He knew exactly who he wanted to show it off to first. Who? Ford. Oh, well, yeah. Ford was the king. Ford was the best.

Yeah. at that time, definitely. And of course, you know, because he's in Detroit, he had a brother who worked at Ford. So his brother got Bob in contact with a guy who worked in engineering. So Bob met with the guy at the Ford Engineering Complex. And Bob showed off his invention and the guy checked it out and asked a bunch of questions. And, God, after like 45 minutes, the guy was like, wow. I mean, I can't believe you did.

This is great. This is so cool. The only thing is, I don't know that I'm really the wrong. right person for you to talk to. You probably need to talk to our executive engineer. And Bob was like, great, okay, sure. Let's move up the ladder. Who am I talking to now? Three days later, Bob came back to the engineering complex to meet with the executive engineer. And when he pulled up to the parking lot, he found like 10 Ford engineers all standing around waiting for him. They wanted to talk to him. They wanted to see what he'd done.

They want to study this thing. So Bob demonstrated his invention and each one of them kind of tested it out. And at one point they were like, okay, you've got to leave this area. Because they were kind of suspicious that maybe he had like a little secret control in his pocket that he was using to control the windshield wipers. They were just so convinced there's no way he did this. Yeah, but then they're going to pry that thing open and look at all the electronics. Norm, it says do not open on it. Okay.

So you think they can't read? I don't trust. Okay. Let's see where this story goes. So he leaves. And then they're like, whoa, these things still work. So they brought him back in. They were really impressed.

Then they did this kind of weird thing where one of them would pull him aside and ask him, okay, well, how do these work exactly? And then another one would pull him aside and be like, how do these work exactly? And another one would pull him aside. How do these work exactly? Come on, quire. Were they testing them? Or were they distracting them while they pried over? open the box to study the electronics.

The other one had a screwdriver in his hand's. That's up for interpretation. And Bob was a little suspicious too, just a little. I mean, he was like, he knew he had something special. And he didn't want to give away the secret, obviously, because that wouldn't be smart. But he also didn't want to be rude either. So he did give them some information about how it worked. and then all of a sudden the executive engineer finally made an appearance.

Did he have a robe on? Just a robe. And he was wearing crocs, which frankly, I didn't know they had crocs back then, but he had a pair. Okay, don't hate on crocs. I bought a pair of crox recently, and I really like them. Yeah, and sometimes you just wear your crocs and your open robe. I don't do that, but it's very handy when I need to let the dogs out at night. I just need to slip on some shoes.

I didn't mean to offend you, sir. You didn't offend me. Just clarifying that I don't walk around with crocks in an open robe. I'm nude with my hog hanging out. Okay, okay. We've heard quite enough about hogs in this episode, which by the way. That's my first time saying hogs in this episode. Well, but you were mentioned hog juice.

You were the one talking about a Bob Champagne bottle. It was a literal champagne bottle norm. He was working it on his wedding night. He was opening. And then it blasted in his eye. Okay. All right. That's enough. Anyway, the executive... Those are direct quotes from you. The executive engineer showed up.

He was not in a robe. I assume he was in a suit because everyone wore suits in the 60s. And he had some disappointing news. He said, oh, we don't. We're not interested. because we've written down everything of how this works. Because we pried the top off that thing. I know it said do not open, but you know, we opened it.

No, he said that Ford was actually already working on something, just like what Bob had invented. In fact, they'd kind of already made it. No, that's bullshit. Hold on. You could have said that in a phone call. Hold on. As proof, he rolled out a new Ford Mercury.

Okay. And he had Bob stand off at a distance. Okay, don't get too close. And then he demonstrated the Ford Mercury's intermittent windshield wipers. And it was a monkey inside. Moving the windshield wipers. No, okay. Slower, monkey, slower.

Slow down. So just to interject, this was true. This was real. Uh-huh. Ford had been working on intermittent windshield wipers. This was obviously something people wanted, you know, You know, they wanted to be able to use windshield wipers. Yeah, but there's only so many monkeys in the world, okay?

And not all of them are trainable, okay? I'm not trying to talk shit on the monkeys, but that's just a fact. But here's the thing. The version that they showed Bob that day was way shittier than what he had invented. So a worse version, okay. They were still using the vacuum-operated wipers, but his ran off of an electric motor. Their design was super complicated. It required a ton of parts, which of course meant that it's easier to break down.

It's also more expensive to produce, which means it's more expensive for the customer. And this is kind of a new thing. So we don't even fully know if the customer is going to want this. More ways it could break, too. The more parts you have... Sir, I just said that. What would you say? I literally said that.

This is a... Did you know when Lincoln was president? No. Joe, Roe. No. said it easily broke and i'm saying yes because of the you didn't you didn't specify you didn't specify why it easily broke joseph back me up on this no replay and play it slowly slowly really make norm think about what he's done joe you know all the dirt i have on you all the dirt

what do you have on joe i don't have anything on but maybe he thinks i do joe we know what you did on your wedding night with that champagne bottle. Their design was super complicated. It required a ton of parts, which of course meant that it's easier to break down. By contrast, Bob's design was sleek and inexpensive. And because his design required fewer parts, that meant fewer opportunities for it to break down. Interesting. Yeah, I don't know if you heard that before. You heard that for me, my insight.

So Bob was standing there, observing Ford's best attempt at an intermittent windshield wiper. Did he give a good chuckle? He's like, I don't know about that. And the executive engineer said something to the effect of, yeah, you know, we're pretty far along on this. But, you know, if you want to show Ford your invention, you know, I guess Ford will have a look at it. You know, we'll take a look. Or they're looking at it right now. Well, yeah, but, you know, his is still kind of in research. development. We can all agree. None of us have really perfected this, right? You know, we're all

working toward the same goal here. By the way, Bob, how much does it cost to build your wipers? Also, we have some tests that your wipers will need to pass if you want us to use them. I thought they weren't interested. Well, there may be a little interested, but they want him to know that they are also really ahead of the game too. And, you know, maybe if he happens to beat them and, you know, they can work something out, then maybe they'll do something. Why are you looking at me like that, huh?

You're looking at me like I'm the engineer from Ford. I've got nothing to do with that guy. Anyway, continue. I don't trust these Ford folks. Because you're a Chevy man? Is that what you're saying? I'm more of a Toyota, boy, myself. So he's like, we have some 10.

tests that your windshield wipers would have to perform. First of all, we need them. Do your windshield wipers require monkeys? Ours don't. We're just curious. How many monkeys and how many penguins are involved? Oh, now you're getting penguins involved. They had to reach out to other beings.

I'm sorry. Maybe the penguins could be like the air conditioning. They'd like breathe, breathe their penguin breath. But also very cruel. That's something from the Flintstones. Yeah. It'd be like Fred's got a brand new penguin on his vehicle, just blowing his cold breath in your face.

You think your job blows. Wow. So anyway, as I've been trying to tell you, they tell him, if you want your windshield wipers to even have a shot at being in Ford vehicles, you're going to have to pass a couple tests. For one thing, your wipers need to run three million cycles, and they have to be able to work in temperatures as hot as 270 degrees because apparently it's like flaming hot under the hood of a car.

Fahrenheit or Celsius? I assume Fahrenheit. Because this is Merca. Cook a nice little keish in that in that car. You sure could. So, you know, once you do all that, Bob, you just let us know. Bob was pumped. He was like, oh my God, oh, my God, oh, my God.

I'm going to do it! I just have to get my wipers to pass these tests, and I will be golden, and Ford will carry my invention. He was so excited. I already know where this story is going. Oh, where's it going, Norm? Ford is going to steal and copy his idea. By the time he's done with all these tests, Ford would be like, oh, yeah, we were not interested anymore. And they're going to put out their windshield wiper, and it'll be exactly like Bob's.

And Bob will say, let's go to court. Will he? And then he'll win. That's an interesting theory. Let's see how it pans out, shall we? Okay. Let's see how it wipes out. Very good.

So Bob went home and he immediately got to work, putting his wipers through the three million cycles. To do it, he set up an aquarium in his basement, and he put the wipers in it, and instead of filling it with aquarium water, he filled it with water, that he'd mixed with some oil and some sawdust, because he felt like that matched.

matched the resistance that would be a better test for his wipers. Yeah. So he ran the test. And Phyllis helped by monitoring the wipers while he was off working on his Ph.D. Oh, Bob was so passionate about his invention. It was all he thought about, all he talked about. Did Phyllis stand there and just count one, two, three? I mean, Phyllis did a lot of work.

She's raising these darn kids. Hopefully they had a counter going or something. I would assume they did. But yeah, she was basically a lab assistant. Yeah. Now, Bob wasn't money motivated, Norm. Sure. But it's worth noting that he and Phyllis really needed the money.

But he wasn't money motivated. Well, not entirely, I don't think. Money can be a factor in your motivation, but that wasn't the sole thing driving this. Sure, two things can be true. Yes. As I have famously said on this award-winning podcast for intellectuals and sex. people. Okay. Sexy intellectuals is what we say. Sexuals. Okay. Okay. So they needed money because they had a bunch of kids. They would eventually have six of them. Ooh. Yeah. Good Catholics. But you know,

money trouble, shmoney bubble. Bob and Phyllis were about to hit it big. You know, all their money troubles were about to be gone thanks to these wipers. Am I right? Am I right? You're right. Okay. By November of that year, Bob had put his wipers threw more than 3 million cycles because he wanted to be extra sure he'd done it right. He said 20 million. Oh, no, he didn't go that far. I went above and beyond. Once he was super confident, he called up Ford and he gave them the good news.

He'd done it, he'd done it, he'd done it, except they didn't care? Mm-hmm, because they made one themselves. Turns out you don't need a monkey. You just need to rip off Bob. Exactly. That's what they did. All of a sudden, Ford didn't seem very interested in his wipers. That was tough, but Bob knew that he had to make something work,

and he was getting kind of nervous because even though he'd invented this thing, he didn't actually have any patents on it yet. Ooh. Yeah. Huge mistake. Well. Always get the patent first. Before you talk to Ford.

That's the famous saying. Before you talk to anybody. No, just Ford. That's the saying. So in order to get patents, he needed to have money because it's not like they had that 1-800 number. You know, you got to pay the commercial. Yeah, they got to pay the attorney to get the patents, all that stuff.

So Bob's in this pickle. And he decided to call up this guy named Dave Tan. Dave and his five brothers ran the Tan Corporation, which sold car parts to a bunch of different car makers in the area. The tanning salon. Eh. That'd be really cute if they also operated Tan. salons. Yes, it would be. Bob figured maybe Dave would take a look at his invention and want to buy it

off of him. So he pulled up to the tan corporation for his meeting with Dave, and he showed Dave the wipers, and Dave was like, whoa, this is so cool. This is great. Could I drive your car around for a while to really test it? And Bob was like, yeah, of course, go ahead. And point, you are just suspicious of everyone. I am. Wow. From the tanning salon owner to the engineers at Ford. No one can be trusted. Yep. Or the guy they hit that cyclist.

That sang the Hillary Duff song. I mean, it wasn't the Hillary Duff song back then. I think he wrote that song for that moment, don't you agree? Yeah. It was probably some like World War I marching song. Let the rain fall down. In Germany. Oh, wow.

Very good. So yada, yada, yada. Dave was so impressed that he was like, hey, let's make a deal. And they did. Bob assigned the rights to his wipers to Dave, and in turn, Dave agreed to pay for all the patents and Dave agreed to pay Bob royalties on the wipers, plus $1,000 a month to continue doing research and development to just improve these things. They got a salary. Very good. Just to sweeten the deal, Dave sent Bob home that afternoon with his first year's worth of research and development money, 12. grand cash baby bob was so excited that when he got home he called the family into the kitchen and they spread the dollar bills all over the kitchen counter which is disgusting but i'm happy for him isn't that nasty why is it nasty norm for the same reason that when we get a package

and you bring it in and you set it on the kitchen counter i'm like can you not set it on the kitchen counter where we cook our food where where would you like me to set packs Literally on the floor. The floor. Or just not on the kitchen where we have food being prepared. Like I don't want, you don't know where these packages have been. Do we not wipe down the counters and clean them? Not regularly enough.

Yeah, but then I have to get down on the floor and open the package. Down on the floor. I'd like to be able to be comfortable and open my package standing up. I don't wipe counters. Okay. Anyhow, they put their cash all over the counters, which I don't approve of. Do you approve of it? Of course you do. Who cares?

All right. You'll be relieved to know that Dave Tan held up his end of the bargain. So I hope you feel kind of bad. Good job, Dave, Tan. He hired a patent attorney named Dick Aiken. Not to be confused with Dick Aiken. I was prepared for you. Dick Aiken?

Yeah. Okay. So much of this comes from this New Yorker article from like 1993. I don't know why. that's relevant. But literally, I read it a couple times. And every time I was like, Oh, Dick Aitken. And then I, you know, saw the T. And it did break my heart a little, but still. What do you mean you saw the T? Well, it's Dick Aitken, but it looks like Dick Aitken. Oh. And if you say it fast enough. So he's not related to Clay Aiken either.

I'm afraid not. Damn. I'm so sorry. Maybe Clay Aiken has a relative name Richard Aiken. And that would just be so funny. Anyway, Dick Aitken. Who had an Aiken dick, filed the first patent application on the intermittent wiper in December of 1964. And faster than you can very slowly say, Blammo, the patent was granted in November of 1967. But that's not to say that Bob and Dave just sat around twiddling their thumbs,

just waiting for the patent to be approved. During that waiting period, they did a bunch of demonstrations for Ford. They thought for sure that Ford would want to work with them once they finally got their patent. Nope, because Ford stole it. Norman? Yeah. All the work paid off. So suck on that.

Suck on my ached dick. A supervisor at Ford told Bob that Ford would use his wipers on their 1969 mercuries. Really? Yeah. I'm shocked. He'd done it. There's got, no, there's got to be a twist here. What?

There has to be a twist to this story. What? Keep going. There's no twist. This is a straightforward tale about a happy little invention. And that's the story. Yeah, right. What's wrong?

What about me says that I can't just tell you a nice little story? I can just tell the inflection in your voice right now. Well, here's the thing, Norm. It all felt very official. Supervisor welcomed Bob to the wiper team. Hey. The Wiper Team. Yeah.

We have fun here. We're like a family. On the Wiper Team. Crockpot lunch on Thursday, Bob. Bring them this is. They even gave him a prototype of the windshield wiper motor just as a fun little keepsake. Oh. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Worth noting, nothing had been signed yet. There were no contracts in place. Shwet. But it felt so official. It felt really real. No, I've seen this. Felt.

No. Felt true. Do you remember, you ever see that movie Jerry Maguire? I have never seen that movie. Okay. So Tom Cruise is a sports agent. Uh-huh. And he's at this big firm.

Uh-huh. And he, like, rebels against the standard ways. And he starts his own sports agency firm. And he convinces the potential number one draft pick in the NFL. Cuba Gooding Jr. No. Cuba Gooding Jr. was already playing in the NFL. It was Jerry O'Connell. He was a quarterback. Oh, okay.

And he was like, I'm going to be your agent. He's like, yeah, we'll shake on it. And comes back to Biden during the draft, the guy switches to a different agency, the one Jerry McGuire used to work for. Even though that quarterback's dad was like, my word, stronger than oak. He got to sign stuff or else who'll end up like Jerry. McGuire. I have always said you can't trust Jerry O'Connell. That's his name, right? Really? Yeah, I've always said it. Why? I've just got a feeling. You know, Jerry O'Connell was also the guy in Can't Hardly Wait. Trent McNeely? I don't know. Trent McNeely, who went off to college. Oh, yeah. He was like the washed up guy who was like, no, you've, you know, you've got to enjoy these times while you have them. Yeah. And he also said, wear water shoes into the shit. shower or you'll get warts all over your feet.

That's good advice. Yeah. Really good advice. So they didn't sign anything. Right. Bob and Ford have not signed. Right. But they'd welcomed him to the wiper team and they gave him that gift.

And he did that crock pot lunch too. So when the supervisor made one more request of Bob, you know, he thought nothing of it. The dude was like, hey, I need you to show the entire team how your wipers work. And I need you to not be vague. I need you to go into big time detail. Tell us everything. No. Hold on.

Hold on. Because windshield wipers are technically a safety item. And legally speaking, we have to fully understand how a safety product works before we can give you a contract. These are just the rules. We don't make them up. This is, if this story is going where I think it's going, this is some evil shit right here. Anyway, continue. It ends in an orgy.

Whoa. No. Welcome to the white. Weir team. Ew. So Bob hears all this and he's like, oh, well, that makes sense. Safety item. Yeah, I guess you have to.

Okay, sure. So he told the Ford engineers how his wipers worked in great detail. And he worked with them on those wipers for the next five months. Bob. And then they let him go. They fired them? Yeah. Yeah.

I knew it. These fuckers. The folks at Ford told Bob that they were going in a different. direction. They didn't want his intermittent windshield wipers. Thank you very much. Bob does have the patent, right? Yeah, he does. So that's one thing. That's one thing. Okay. Yep, can't take that from him. Bob was sad and kind of confused, and he was even more sad and more confused when the 1969 Ford Mercury hit the market. That year, Ford introduced a brand new intermittent windshield wiper. I knew it. It was brand new to everyone but Bob. Yeah. Those fuckers. It was exactly like what he designed. It had a

capacitor, a resistor, a transistor. At the time, Ford made a big deal out of keeping the price of their base model. Oh, I've already said this. So this was an add-on that you could do. Initially, it sold kind of slowly, but then they packaged it with something else. I can't remember what it was. I think it was side view mirrors that you could rotate. And then it just flew off the shelves. Free holiday ham with purchase. Everyone got a holiday ham. People loved it. It only cost Ford $10 to make Bob's design. I mean their design. And they sold them for $37 a pop. So it's great profit, great safety product. Everybody's happy.

This is such bullshit. It's terrible. Yeah. I'm never buying a Ford ever. Is that because you don't like Ford's in general? I feel like we were never at risk for buying a Ford. We had a Ford growing up that was like just a total piece of junk. And man, I'm forever ruined from Ford's. You know, I was kind of interested in the new Ford Mustang because it's an all-electric Mustang. And I was like, well, that's kind of cool, like a sporty, all-electric vehicle.

But now that you know that they were jerks in 1969, you're like, no. Well, maybe they didn't do it. Bull shit. Maybe they didn't. Uh-huh. Okay. Bob was stunned. He tried calling up his good buddies at Ford, but...

Were they screening his calls? Oh, shit, it's Bob again. Yeah. Yeah, basically. He quickly realized that those people weren't really his buddies. They'd been real friendly when they wanted information out of him. Yeah, of course. But the second he wanted information out of them, boy, they clammed up real quick.

This isn't the Ford Motor Company. It's the doored motor company. You have the wrong number, sir. Sorry, sir. Goodbye. But luckily, as you have already pointed out, Norm, Bob had those patents. Yep. All right.

So he talked to the attorney who had filed those patents. Dick Aiken. He was like, ow, don't worry, I can still work. Oh. You know, they have a lot in common because Bob's dick was aching on his wedding night. From work in that champagne bottle, as you say. Anyway, the attorney wrote some really scary letters. to Ford, okay, really strongly worded.

That's the where you start. Yep. And Ford was like, hmm, we are Ford, so we are not scared. A billion dollar company. Yeah, we don't care. They were like, first of all, we didn't infringe on your patents. And second of all, you shouldn't have been granted those patents in the first place. Oh, really?

Bob was incensed. He went to Dave Tan, you know, the guy who'd worked with him on getting those patents. And Bob was like, Dave, you got to sue Ford. They're, what they're doing is wrong. They stole my design. And Dave was like, I mean, yeah, you're probably right. And that sucks. But we can't take on Ford.

No, we supply parts to Ford. That's a huge part of our business. If we sue Ford, we will tank our entire business. And keep in mind, this is his family business in addition to it being, you know, a fairly size business. Well, damn, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah, because this is not the guy who's going to sue Ford.

Well, then can't Bob just sue Ford? Eventually, Dave agreed to sign the rights to those patents back over to Bob. Oh, what a good guy. Yeah. But, you know, Bob really struggled. This was his first big invention. It was really cool. It was a total game changer.

He'd worked on it for years, and he hadn't gotten any credit for it. To make matters worse, pretty soon, other car companies started ripping off his design. And by other car companies, I mean, literally. Literally every other car company. Chrysler, GM, Saab, Honda, Volvo, the list goes on. Doord? Doord. The Doord Motor Company.

Norman, for a split second, I was like, oh my God, did I forget a car company? Yeah, Doored. Doord. Everyone forgets doored. By the 1970s, everyone was using intermittent windshield wipers. People demanded them. They were so much better than what we'd had before. Absolutely.

Eventually, Bob moved his family from Michigan to Maryland. for his job at the Bureau of Standards. But, you know, he never really got over that pain. That just sucked what had happened to him. Yeah, it's bullshit. And then, in the summer of 1976, his son Dennis came home with an intermittent windshield wiper. It was being sold by Mercedes.

And Bob gave it a look because he was really curious to know how the Germans had put together their intermittent windshield wiper. You know, kind of cool. They probably did something a little different than what he did. You know, there are multiple ways to come up with the same function. Sure. But holy shit. Did it work exactly like his?

As soon as Bob took it apart, he saw that even Mercedes had ripped him off. So he can sue like everybody. For whatever reason, this was the straw that broke the camel's back. He left the family home, didn't tell anyone where he was going. He hitchhiked to Washington. From there, hitchhiked. Oh, yeah. Got on a greyhound bus, which is the worst thing you can do ever.

Why did he hitchhike? You're about to find out he was not in a good. He wasn't doing well. Okay. I mean, this, this, I don't want to say it broke him, but I mean, it was, it was too much. It was just too fucking much. So he hitched. Bob is a broken man.

Bob's a broken man for sure. He hitchhikes to Washington. He gets on a greyhound bus headed down south. he had it in his head that Richard Nixon wanted him to go to Australia to work on an electric car. Was this real? No, it was not. What? Yeah, he was having a breakdown. Oh, well, yeah.

At one point, he thought he was under attack from poisoned gas. Again, not happening, but he was not doing well. During this time period, his hair, which until that point had always been red, went completely gray. Bob was consumed with what he had lost. It wasn't just about money. It was about time. He was in his mid-40s now. His kids were growing up,

and he'd spent so much of their childhoods building an intermittent windshield wiper for everyone else, I guess. He'd missed out on so much in life. While he was building that thing that made other people rich, he'd never even taught his kids how to fly a kite. The police eventually found Bob in a park in Tennessee holding two kites. What the hell?

Yeah. Luckily, he was unharmed. I mean, they got him to a psychiatric ward in Maryland where he stayed for several weeks. And after that breakdown, Bob found himself unable to work. He went on disability. And he just kept obsessing with the ways that these big corporations had stolen his design. It wasn't right. It wasn't fair.

He gathered the patent filings from Ford and GM and a bunch of other car manufacturers, and he realized that they'd all just copied the most important elements of his design and put them into their own patents. It was too much. And so, in 1978, 15 years after that car ride, where he'd come up with the idea for his windshield wipers, Bob looked himself in the mirror, and he said, let's go to court.

See, you had to wait a while, but it eventually came. Yeah. He sued Ford, plus several other car manufacturers for patent infringement. Get them, Bob. He sought $141 million in damages. Inflation? It's got to be like a billion, right? Actually, the calculator erred out when I tried to do this, and he would later raise it to $325 million in damages.

Yeah, he owed a ton of money. This became a long, painful legal battle. Ford and all these other car manufacturers had all the money in the world. They could fight this thing forever. They could drag it out forever. Ford's main defense was that Bob's patents were invalid because his invention wasn't really an invention. What does that mean?

Well, okay. So this is a big legal issue. As it turns out, deciding what constitutes an invention. And specifically an invention that should be protected by a patent is really difficult. And it's something that legal scholars have debated for a long time. And for a while, there was this idea, thanks to a 1941 Supreme Court decision, that for something to qualify as an invention worthy of a patent, it had to come from a flash of creative genius. You had to have that moment, that eureka moment. Shut up.

Who ruled on that? I mean. A flash of creative genius? That sounds so... In their defense, it is really hard. No, I agree. I agree. It's very flowery.

And that's kind of the problem because then you're relying so much on the inventor's story. And it's like, well, what if this person doesn't really have much of a story? Yeah. It doesn't mean they didn't come up with a very unique idea that's worthy of a patent. Yeah, what if you just saw something and you were just like, oh, I bet I can make a better version of this? That's not a flash of creative genius. That's kind of what. But it's still worthy of a patent.

So that's kind of what people said. They're like, we need to refine this definition. So in the 1950s, a bunch of experts got together and they created a new rule. It's called the doctrine of non-obviousness. Great name. I love it. So that kind of became the new. thing. And it basically says that in order for something to be an invention worthy of a patent,

then that invention must be non-obvious to a person with an average skill set in that particular field. What do you think? It seems so convoluted. Well, you give me a better definition. For a patent? For an invention that is worthy of being protected by a patent. Because the thing they're trying to avoid here is like they don't want to stop people from just evolving things. And if there's a next obvious evolution of a thing and it's obvious to a person of average skill in that field, then no, you shouldn't get a patent on that because that's just something people were going to come up with anyway. And, you know, people at different companies independently could have come up with that thing because it's just... I see what you're saying. Yeah. Okay. So, like,

Like somebody invented the hamburger and the obvious next step was you put cheese on it. Sure. And we're not going to give you a patent on that because that's ridiculous. Yes. I see what you're saying. Well, then they should have called it the cheeseburger rule. Yeah. What a bunch of idiots calling this the doctrine of non-obviousness.

Yeah. Called it the cheeseburger rule. Also, no monkeys allowed in your patents. If a monkey operates the invention, no way, buddy. I love your rules, Norm. We've lost too many monkeys to testicles and now inventions. Well, the monkeys didn't die by testicle, but I see what you're saying. Well, don't you remember in the Tesco episode,

Sergei Vornoff had that monkey castle in Italy where he's keeping all the monkeys and removing their testicles? I do. I do. Future topic? You already covered it. I'll do it again, damn it. Oh, my God. I have a patent on that topic. I bet you do.

So in other words, would another engineer working on windshield wipers have inevitably come up with the intermittent windshield wiper in this kind of design? See, and that's my problem with this rule. Hmm. Is it's like, how do you determine that? What do you mean? How do you determine that? How do you determine if it was obviously the next step in the evolution of windshield wiper? First, buddy, you look yourself.

in the mirror and you say, let's go to court. And then you go to court. And then you have a bunch of other windshield wiper engineers. But he's suing the people. He's suing all the engineers. So they can just lie and be like, yeah, of course we are going to come up with this. So this is part of the problem with these cases. Part of the problem with these cases is obviously money is always a huge factor. But more money, more problems, as we say. In this case, no. You've got no problems because you can bring all. All the experts forward to say whatever you want. Like there's no shortage of experts that Ford could bring in or GM could bring in to say,

oh, yeah, we would have come up with that. Exactly. The other thing is. So Bob has to find this stupid engineer. She's like, no, we would have never come up with this. Wow, it's amazing, buddy. The other criticism is that this stuff is really complex. Yeah.

It's mechanical. engineering done by people with PhDs in that field. And we're trying to determine what would be obvious to them. And the people determining that are jurors, random-ass jurors. Yes. I tried to even explain how these things worked and my brain tapped out after three seconds. And I was like, you're just going to have to know that, you know, it's the windshield wipers on your car, man. I'm not going to explain how it works.

Yeah. And this was a big thing with a lot of my game in a story and stuff was. Oh, yeah. Well, explaining how a video game works to a judge or a juror, how they're made, how they're programmed, why this game is so much different than this game. It makes it very complex. It's very complex. And it's funny because you don't even know, does the juror, like, honestly, if I was on the jury, I don't know, first of all, that I have the intellectual capacity to keep up with it. And even if I do, am I going to get bored?

halfway through and kind of like daydream and look at the ceiling a little bit and be like, oh, I've looked at the ceiling too long. I've got to look back at this guy who's talking. He looks a little annoyed. Just look at the windshield wipers going back and forth. That's all you need to focus on. So yeah, this is a tough legal issue. And there were guys at Ford who were there was one guy in particular. I didn't write his stuff down. But he was interviewed for the New Yorker article. And I did find what he was saying pretty compelling. He was talking about this team they had. And he was like, yes, intermittent windshield wipers.

That's where we wanted to get. And we were getting there. It was inevitable that we would get there. So it's just a matter of how do we train these monkeys? Shut up. I'm not letting that joke drop. Evidently not. So this is where this story gets really sad.

because, in my personal opinion, I think Ford did steal from Bob. They absolutely did. Yeah, I think they did. When they freaking go over here for 10 minutes while we look at this, and then they, you know, pulled him aside. He gave him all the information when they hired him. Did he present? I'm guessing he presented all of this in court.

Oh, I forgot. No, he kept it under his hat. It was a weird choice. I don't want anyone to know my great shame, where I was. pretended to work for Ford. You know what's funny is in several articles, he compared it to being like in a bad relationship where you want it to be good. And, you know, when they love you, they love you.

And then they turn you away and you feel so bad. But then they reach out again and you're like, okay, I'll come back. He was like, that was me. I was just so in love with Ford. Like I just wanted this to happen so badly that I trusted them and believed them when I shouldn't have. Yeah. I shouldn't have banged them that last time, he said. Shouldn't have done the wiper team orgy.

In retrospect, it was a bad idea. It was a fun time, but it was a bad idea. Good times had by all, but I was new there. Yeah. Didn't fit in. Again, this is to me where it gets sad because, like I said, I believe that they stole from him. Does he lose this case? Hold on.

Keep your shorts on. Keep your shorts on. And that was wrong of them to do. And they deserve to be sued. Way to stand up, Kristen. To be paid accordingly. That's right. But that's not always the way lawsuits work.

Nope. And that's certainly not how lawsuits work when they become legal battles, which is what I'm calling this. This is a legal battle. It's not just like, oh, and then we sued and then we did a quick trial. Wasn't that a wild time? Yeah, probably took years, right? Mm-hmm. So, you ready for this thing to get going?

Yeah. First of all, what do you think is going to happen? Because you were teasing me like, oh, how brave of you to say these things? Meanwhile, you're choking on monkey ball jokes over there. I think they'll settle. They'll reach a settlement. Maybe not as much as he hoped. What do you think the settlement will be for?

Like how much money? Well, yeah. I mean, what other options are there? Don't sometimes. It's like a symbolic gesture. Like they don't want money. They want $1. $1 or something, yeah.

Yeah, but that's not what Bob wants. Bob wants more than a dollar. Bob's not Taylor Swift suing some radio DJ. You know, he wants a real. That's actually the case I was thinking of, the Taylor Swift case. I don't know. So he sued for, what, $300 million or something? Yeah.

$20 million. Okay. So this thing kicks off. And Ford and the other car manufacturers did exactly what you think they're going to do. They delayed and delayed. And delayed, and delayed. And just... Motion for summary judgment?

Motion for summary judgment? Denied. Denied. Denied. Just when a hearing was right around the corner, they'd send over a ton of documents. And, you know, Bob's side would be like, oh, shit. And then they'd have to ask for a delay.

Of course. So, of course, it looks like everyone's doing this. There's no bad guy here. I really, really need a continuance. What's that from? Is that from liar, liar? The greatest courtroom drama. movie of all time. Yes, undisputed. Bob became obsessed with this legal battle. He cycled through

attorneys. It dragged out for years. He says like he, you know, left them and it was all good. A lot of them say that they fired him as a client. He became very, very intense. By this point, Bob and Phyllis had been married for 27 years. Phyllis had always believed in him. She'd always been so proud of him, she'd put in a lot of work not just in raising the family, but in monitoring his experiments and running tests on these windshield wipers. Watching the aquarium. But this lawsuit turned Bob into an angrier version of himself. And Phyllis didn't like what she saw.

He wanted her to be in this legal battle with him, the same way she'd been in it with his research and development on the wipers. And she just couldn't. Yeah. Looking back on it, she said, it had become an abeyal. obsession. I told him, I can't stand this life. And he said, this is my life. He's in too deep. Yeah. This happened to the Zodiac guy, right? The guy writing the Zodiac book. I don't know. What are you talking about? Remember from the Zodiac movie, Jake Gyllenhaal? He's married and he's like obsessed with

finding out who the Zodiac is. And his wife divorces him too. Because he's like, he will not. I love that movie. It is like one of the, one of the best movies ever made. Love Zodiac. But yeah, I think... I can understand your partner gets just obsessive about something. And, yeah, it's like Phyllis talked about, like, being fundamentally a peace-loving person. And this just was not what she wanted. It's a fundamental difference of what they want out of life.

And Phyllis sees it as, like, this is just not worth it. Yeah. There's more to life than this. And he is like, no, no, no, this is life. Okay, it's interesting that you say that. He, and I didn't write this quote down, but he told a reporter once that this legal battle felt like it wasn't about determining, did they steal my design, you know, who did what to whom. It was about determining the meaning of Bob Kern's life. Right.

His legacy. What is my legacy? That's rough. That's rough to put all of that into the hands of a jury. Yeah. Phyllis left Bob in 1980. Their divorce became final in 1989. One year later, 12 years after he'd filed that initial lawsuit, Bob's case against Ford finally went to trial.

To trial. Yeah. Jury trial? Oh, yeah. Federal case. At trial, the judge was like, okay, we're going to do. this in two parts. In the first part, we're only going to figure out whether Bob had valid patents and then we'll determine whether Ford infringed on those patents. And if we get a yes to both

of those questions, we'll move on to trial to Electric Bugaloo, which is where we figure out how much money Ford owes Bob. That would be the fun trial for Bob. How much money am I getting? First trial lasted three weeks. In court, Ford argued that Bob hadn't really invented anything because what he'd done was take off-the-shelf parts and assemble them in a new way. A monkey could have done it. Oh, hey, hey, don't steal my monkey jokes. I have a patent on those monkey jokes. I don't think you do because it was pretty obvious.

Well, I don't think you can patent a joke. You'd be more of a copyright. Got to think on this, don't you? So Bob's legal team argued that, yeah, of course, he used parts that were off the shelf, but he'd put them together in a new, non-obvious. way. I agree. A monkey could not have done this. I agree. And neither could an average mechanical engineer at Ford. Ultimately, the jury found that, yes, Robert's patents were valid, and yes, Ford had infringed on those patents. Excellent. Good start. So at this point, Ford shat its pants collectively. Now, what about all

the engineers who are like, well, it's obvious, this is where windshield wipers were going. Wouldn't that invalidate the patent? It depends on who you believe. You know, the- So the jury said it's a valid patent. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, if I was on the jury, I'd be like to hell with Ford. Well, it is funny.

And I would have said it during the jury selection process. And then they would have like, sir, you got to go. We should get this guy on here. No, I, it's funny. We talked shit on the flash of genius, the flash of creative genius thing. But I do think when you get in front of a jury, that story of, oh, the champagne cork to my eye. me thinking about an eyeball and I was driving and I was like, why can't it be like an eyelid? That's a great story. I think that goes a long way with a jury because we can all understand that.

Yeah, I agree, but that shouldn't be the only criteria for if a patent is valid or not. No, it's not. Because sometimes inventions are boring. Like your monkey jokes. I worked really hard on those monkey jokes. My brain has been whirring like crazy. This crystal light has been putting in work today. Uh-huh. Coming up with non-stop. How dare you insult my monkey jokes? So Ford's shit in its pants, because they just lost that first phase of the trial. And they came to Bob.

Wait a minute. What? Thank you. They came to Bob. Pants caked in shit. And they said, hey, friend, hey, buddy. Hey, can we settle? Hey.

How about we settle? How about we settle for $30 million? Oh, I was close. Yeah. Look at your face. Let's just forget this ever happened. You just take your $30 million. and, you know, Bing, bang, boom.

Everybody's happy. And Bob's legal team was like, yes! Yes! And Bob said no. Suck on that. $30 million, $30 million. Woo! I'm getting a Super Nintendo.

But Bob said, hell no. I'm not settling. Yeah. Yeah, of course. He told the Detroit Free Press, this case isn't about money, Norman Caruso. If I walk out of there with nothing more than a check, then I'm nothing more than an employee of Ford.

So he wants the victory to. He wants the victory? Here's what he wants. God bless him. He wants a judge to tell all of these other car manufacturers. You have to stop making those wipers. You have no right to make those wipers. Okay, well, that's not happening.

Hold on. I'm telling you what he wants. I'm not saying, hey, he's right, and this is going to happen. That's what he wants to happen. So then he can build his factory in Detroit. And then all his kids can work there. Whoever, they can have nice landscaping out front. They can make, hey, I'm telling you the dream.

And then they can make the windshield wipers. And then they can supply them to all these other car companies. Bob, that was like 30 years ago. Times they are a change in. Yeah. The new dream is, yes, all the manufacturers have. to admit they stole your shit and they give you giant bags of money. That's a much more realistic dream.

Yes. Norm, that's not where Bob's head's at. Ooh, okay. Good luck, Bob. And move ahead to the second trial. And when the jury had their verdict, everyone gathered round to hear the news. Everyone but Bob. Why didn't Bob want to hear it?

He was mad. Did the trial not go very well? He was mad at the judge because the judge had ruled that essentially Bob was asking for too much money. The judge had told the jury, Bob shouldn't get profits from the manufacturing of the windshield wipers. I mean, I would agree with that. He should get money on each one sold, but not money for manufacturing it. Well, you and Bob disagree on that. I guess so. I believe also this jury said that Ford hadn't willfully infringed on the patent. They had infringed, but not willfully. And so that takes the damages down further. So Bob's mad.

I'd be mad about that too. So, without saying shit to anyone, including his own family, Bob took off. He spent 10 days tent camping in West Virginia with nothing but pork and beans to sustain him. Pork and beans. Who are you trying to punish Bob? Yeah. Maybe he was listening to Dave Ramsey.

God, Dave Ramsey. Jesus. The judge was pissed that Bob had just vanished in the middle of court proceedings. So when the jury awarded him, you want to take a guess? Well, so they said they'd settle for 30. Bob said hell no to the no, no, no. I'm going to guess $95 million. $5.2 million.

What? I know. I think it sucks. Hang on. Hold up. Wait a minute. Yeah. Yeah.

It's way lower than... Hold up. Wait a minute. Something ain't right. I agree. I think especially when a case, like this finally gets to a jury trial, I think it's reasonable to expect that if the jury is on your side and they say, yeah, you've got a valid patent. Yeah, they infringed on it. I think it's

reasonable to expect that you're going to have a massive payday. A huge payday. Fuck the pork and beans. Leave them at the camp. I don't know. But no, 5.2 million. That sucks. Do the manufacturers have to say, yeah, we infringed on your pass. Because if they settled, they would be like, okay, we're settling, like we're not admitting any wrongdoing, but we'll settle. But this way, he's getting less money, but are they admitting? Technically, you never have to admit anything. I could be found guilty of murder by a jury. I don't have to say, oh, yeah, I'm guilty.

All I'd have to say is a jury found me guilty of murder. Yeah, sure. Well, I'm just saying. Yeah, but I know where Bob's head is. And he wants that victory. He does. Yep. And so I'm wondering, does he get that?

Do the manufacturers have to be like, yes, we stole your windshield wipers and we're going to put your name on every single windshield wiper we manufacture? Norm, I love where your head's at, but no. No, they don't have to do any of that. They don't have to do any of those things. In fact, in fact, this judge is so pissed off that he's like, okay, all right, $5.2 million. Okay. If Bob doesn't show up to collect his money, then I am going to start another legal proceeding to figure out if this dude is mentally confident. So show up, dude, collect your money. Come get your money.

So eventually when the pork and beans ran out, Bob came out of hiding. He's pissed off about the $5.2 million, determined to appeal, but Ford offered him $10.2 million. And he agreed to settle. Wait, why did Ford offer that? Just so he wouldn't appeal? Yeah, just so it's like, let's be done. That's rough. Yeah. So he's got $10.2 million.

What are you going to do, Bob? Well, money can't fix everything. That summer, Bob went to jail for failing to pay alimony to Phyllis and also for refusing to leave their house. Oh, still in that basement, huh? When the author of the New Yorker article first met Bob, it was kind of around this time period, just a few months after he got the $10 million deal from Ford. And at that time, Bob was living in an apartment in Houston.

He had a sleeping bag on the floor. And legal documents were stacked everywhere all around this unfurnished apartment, including he had a stack of legal documents on the toilet. Okay. So Bob is not well. No. Yes. No.

It's very clear now. Someone needs to tell Bob no. Because Bob has won by this. point. He is settled with Ford. I mean, if you're going to call that a win, which I don't think he would. He's got all these other lawsuits. But it's over, right? With Ford it is.

Just with Ford. Just with Ford. Oh, gosh. So they didn't do them all at once. It was... Hell no, no, no, no. Hell no, no. Hell no to the no, no, no. So he's still got to sue the Doord Motor Company. Dord is next on the list.

Well, they have no money, okay? They don't even have a website. night. Bob did eventually buy a super nice house in Maryland right next to Mario Boyardee's house. Ever heard of him? Chef Boyardee? Yes. The chef boyardee.

No fucking way. The air to the Boyardee. Oh my God. That would be cool. Norm, you would die. You'd be like, um, hi. I've always been a big fan. I'm your knee neighbor.

Um, maybe I could come over some time and we could just eat out of a can together. Is chef home? Where is he? peek in Oh my god He looks just like the can That would be my hope Is that he looks exactly like the can

Time has not touched him He looks exactly the same And he's always in his little chef hat I just imagine him Stirring Stirring some meatballs He's wearing a robe It's flapped open

He's got crocs on But he has the chef's hat And that's all you need Big dripping hog Okay Two little raviolis We don't care about those No we don't

So he's got a place eventually next to the boyardee's place. But Bob was so invested in this legal battle that he spent like no time there. He never got to know the boyardees. He mostly stayed, oh, Norm, you're going to hate this. Do you need a moment? No, go ahead. He mostly stayed in Detroit, sleeping on friends' couches.

Dude. Or, I know. Yeah, he is not well. No, he's not doing well. Or. Dr. Phil, get in there. Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil is going to make this so much worse.

Bob, you need help. You need help. You've got legal documents on your toilet. You should consider all the germs in your bathroom, Bob. I don't know. Bob. Audience chairs. Woo!

Yeah. Tell him, Dr. Phil. So he's mostly on Friends' couches. He also, at this point, had an office in Detroit right across from the federal courthouse because he figured, he figured I'm going to be there a lot. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess that's smart. But he would, like, sleep in his office. Yep, this has become an obsession, an unhealthy obsession.

Bob told the New Yorker reporter that he was determined to sue all of these companies until every car manufacturer had to stop making his windshield wiper. Oh, I already told you this. So he could supply it to them. Because he wants his factory. Sunshine rainbows. Completely unrealistic. Never going to happen.

But no one could tell Bob that. By that point, he was dating a woman named Gene, and she'd been so excited about the Ford case being over. Oh, my gosh, and she said to his kids, who were all grown by this point, she said, soon it'll all be over, and he'll be mine. And Bob's... He'll be mine? Yeah, like, I'll have him back, you know?

This'll be done. Oh, Jean, sweet innocent Jean. Bob's daughter, Kathy, said, Gene, are you crazy? Don't you get it? This is never going to end. Nope. Kathy was right.

The next giant to fight with was Chrysler. And here's a fun thing, because I don't know if you've gotten the vibe, but Bob was officially difficult. He'd been very difficult for many years, and he'd gotten pretty fed up with his legal team. And I guess he thought he could do better. Because by the time the Chrysler case went to trial, Bob had decided to represent himself in court. Oh, no. Oh, this always goes well, though. This is terrible.

This is terrible. I feel like there are two types of people who represent themselves in court. Stupid people and arrogant people. Often, they are combined. Yes. And it's one of those things I want to be super clear. Obviously, Bob is highly intelligent. I have no doubt that if he had a few years to study the law, like, he could get a law degree, no problem.

I'm sure. He could be an attorney. I'm sure. But. Yeah, but he's not doing well. No. And also, even if he had been doing well, you don't have those skills right now, dude. No.

You're going to represent yourself in a federal trial against Chrysler? Are you kidding me? Yeah. And he lives next to the chef boyardee house, and he's not taking advantage of it at all. That's how we know something's wrong. Something off with this guy. By the time the jury went into deliberation at the time. this trial, Bob was confident, as confident as a man who was acting as his own attorney.

Bob was certain that he was going to not just win this legal battle with Chrysler, oh, no, no, no, but that the jury would award him so much money that it would really hurt Chrysler. Like maybe they couldn't keep going. We award you $2 billion, Bob. You are now, Mr. Chrysler. We're giving you the company. Yep. Bob was wrong, of course.

Yeah. Again, it was kind of the same as the Ford trial. The jury didn't find that Chrysler acted willfully when it infringed on his patents. Yes, they infringed on your patent, but they didn't do it willfully. And that brought the damages down considerably. The jury awarded Bob $11.5 million. Okay, so better than Ford. Right.

And it would be about $20 million with interest added in. Fun fact. Over the course of this entire legal saga, Bob hired and fired five different legal teams before he eventually decided to represent himself in court. And I say fired, but I saw other sources that said that they fired him as a client. So do with that what you will. So he sued Ford, that's over. He sued Chrysler, that's over.

Who's next on his hit list? He's got like 18 other car companies that he's going to sue, okay? By this point, he had his office across from the courthouse, Kerns Associates, and four of his six children had joined him in this fight. Did any of them have legal training? No. No. And if you're wondering, gee, did that pan out okay?

The answer is no. No, no, it did not. Okay, for example, this is ridiculous. Bob's oldest son, Dennis, he became a licensed investigator to help with this legal battle. And I suspect that our dear friend Dennis here learned how to be. an investigator by watching TV because at one point apparently during a negotiation with Ford, he plopped his 45 automatic on the desk just to show him what was up. Oh boy.

Yeah, that's not a thing you do. Then, while he was working on another case, Dennis seduced a paralegal who was working for the opposing law firm in their case against poor. He seduced her? He seduced her. He engaged in an eight-month-long affair with this woman in the hopes that she'd give him legal documents. And she did. And Bob presented them in court. And the judge was like, where did you get those?

Yep. He was like, wait, how did you get these? And when the judge found out that Dennis had gotten them via the horizontal tango, the judge was like, what? No! No! He goes, I will not admit these. to evidence and also I'm finding you $10,000 because this is not how this works. Holy shit.

It's ridiculous. Is this a movie yet? It is a movie. Or a miniseries. It's called a Flash of Genius. I didn't watch it because it's not, it's based on the, Greg Kinnear. Yes. You know about this?

Yeah. Have you seen it? Bits in pieces. Okay. I didn't want to watch it because it's just based on a true story, but it's not, it doesn't stick strictly to the facts. And so I didn't want to get any of that kind of mixed in my brain. Well, yeah.

And like, I don't remember this in the movie at all. Honestly, some of this stuff is so ridiculous that I'd be like, we can't put this in the movie because it's not believable. I mean, like he seduced a paralegal. That's crazy. For Porsche. And then they present it to the judge like, yeah, yeah, all I had to do was eat some pussy. And then.

Like, dude, where did you get your certification? I'm about to bust. So the first two cases are over. Bob had dreams of going to trial against every car manufacturer under the sun. But that really fell apart when he decided that he and his kids should be the legal team. Yeah, look, even lawyers on trial hire other lawyers. Well, absolutely. And I'm sorry, there's just, you have to be humble enough to know that there are certain things I don't know.

Certain basic things I don't know. And yes, lawyers are expensive. Maybe you hate lawyers. Okay. But you need a lawyer. Yep. So. Pay up, buddy.

He won plenty of money. You can hire a great legal team. Yeah. Or you can just have your son seduce everybody. Dennis, I need you to fuck you. everybody. Genesis is exhausted. I've eaten out 20 women this week.

I've got cotton mouth. Get me the crystal light. Crystal light's that. So they miss deadlines, you know, just basic shit. I mean, and honestly, I'm not trying to talk shit on them. They've got like 17 different lawsuits they're trying to pursue. Of course you're going to drop the ball when you are not an attorney. Phyllis was smart to do.

I completely agree. I think Phyllis was right. She was like, I see where this is headed. And obviously, she couldn't know how bad it was going to get. But why are you smiling at me? I'm just thinking about her. His son seducing everybody. That's my favorite part of this story so far.

So, you know, they're failing to do basic stuff. And so the judge dismissed all of Bob's cases. And judge was like, no more. Yeah, because you're wasting time and resources. when you're not doing, yeah, the basic things that a lawyer would know how to do. Also, I believe this judge had presided over, like, all of Bob's shit. So he knew what was up. Yeah, I think the judge was.

He knew what was up. Done. Another layer to this is that by this point, all of Bob's patents had expired. Yeah, I was going to ask. So these patents lasted for 17 years. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, my understanding is that after that, it's kind of a free-for-all. So Bob entered what a lot of articles have called an uneasy retirement.

Years earlier, he said that these trials weren't about the money. They were about the meaning of his life. But the trials became his life. Even after they were over, he was still fixated on what had happened. Well, gosh, all the trials and legal battles have lasted longer than him inventing the damn windshield wipers. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really sad.

It's funny. I mean, we're joking around and stuff, but I can't imagine pouring that much energy. I mean, he worked on those wipers for, I think, like, 10 years or so. And to just have that stolen from you, it'd be really hard to cut your losses. Yeah, absolutely. Because that's the sad thing. And I hate that. I hate that, like, yeah, it's the, it's David versus Goliath, and I'm David, and I have to just be like, you know what? He's bigger than me.

I, you know, he's getting rich off my invention, and I just have to make peace with that. I hate that. Yeah, I don't think I'm a big enough person to do that. No, he was right to sue, but he should also admit that like, okay, well, and he was fine to even sue everybody, honestly, but when he started going to the territory of, I'm going to represent myself and my kids are going to get involved, it just got out of hand. I just can't imagine waiting for a trial for 12 years. Oh, yeah, that would be. But at the same time, at that point, you're in too deep. You've been paying these attorneys for however long.

I mean, that's rough. So the legal battles were over, but they were never really over. For years after this, he talked to his kids about, you know, maybe trying to reclaim his patents. But, you know, of course, that never really went anyway. Bob Kearns died in 2005 at the age of 77. He had brain cancer and Alzheimer's. And I'd like to close with a quote from Bob's son, Tim.

It comes from that New Yorker. Is this the guy who seduced everybody? No, that was Dennis. And it was one person. Sorry, in my head. He's seduced too many people. You want this story to get real sexy real quick. They seduce the judge.

We're going to keep these. And then the judge was like, actually, it's fine that you missed all those deadlines. So here's what he said in that. New Yorker article. I guess you could say that the lawsuit has ruined my father's life, but I don't choose to look at it that way. It is his life. If there's a tragic aspect to it, it's that my father has never invented anything else. It would be interesting to know how many people's lives have been saved by the intermittent wiper, and how many more lives could have been saved by his next invention. We'll never know because he couldn't let this one thing go.

Yeah. That was something else I was thinking about is like, yeah, if he had accepted defeat, who knows what else he would have done? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But that's so hard to accept defeat. Yep. I don't blame him for pursuing the lawsuits. Yeah.

You know I run on Spiding Crystal Light. Yeah. And I don't know what lessons you would learn from that to stop someone. from ripping you off like that again. Because it would have been really cool if he could have invented something totally new and created his own company and done whatever he wanted.

Then he could have had that factory. Maybe. With all of his kids. But anyway, that is a story about windshield wipers. Excellent job, Kristen. Invented by a woman. I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Like the Monopoly board game. Yes. Exactly like that. Future top. I already covered it. On your old decrepit podcast. Oh, wow.

No, I have thought about like the cases that I found really interesting on Let's Go to Court that just got one episode. I've thought about like, gosh, what if I just did a deep dive? Do it. Who gives a shit? Just do it. Well, people might care. I don't know. They might be like, we've heard this before.

You see you haven't heard the true story. I lied on the last episode. I was full of shit. in that last one. Norm, I understand you have solicited some stories from our Discord. Oh, I sure have. Okay. Kristen, it is November, and you know Thanksgiving is almost upon us.

It's true. My favorite holiday. What do you love about it? Because it's not about, it's not commercial, in my opinion. Yeah. It's just like getting together with family and friends and eating. And I just love food and eating. And it's just a very lovey holiday.

I like it a lot. It's about food and eating. And family and friends. Yeah. All those Fs. So I asked our Discord in honor of the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday, what is the worst dish you have ever experienced that Thanksgiving? Because we don't care about the best dish.

We want to know what's the nastiest thing. We don't want to hear about the good times you've had. Tell us about the pork and beans. So here we go. Okay, our good friend, Come Kardashian, has an immediate disgusting answer. My grandma once made pasta with blueberries for color. Oh my God. Why even for color? Why would you want blue pasta? You know what? I am also not great at cooking and I understand the instinct. No, come says we don't let her cook anymore. Good idea. Oh, no.

James lost my butthole Eden says, My cousin's ham. It gave the entire family food poisoning. Four people in our home, one bathroom. Oh, no. Oh, that is terrible. Nope, I got a sound for that one. Hang on.

I thought it was just going to be, oh, yeah, that's, I was expecting you to just, like, lay on that. No, I mean, I cannot imagine multiple people having food poisoning. And what are we all going to share a toilet? No. That bucket from Home Depot that you've been using for the mop. She's gone, baby. She's gone.

That's rough. One time I got food poisoning and it was coming out both ends at the same time. I didn't even know the human body could do that. You said, the human body's a wonderful thing. I just admired the human body as I shat and vomited at the same time. Luckily, our toilet was right next to the sink so I could just like sit on the toilet and lean over. Thank you, Dorman. Anyway.

Okay, you skipped over this one, but I am very disturbed. I think it's the Midwest in me. Fiery One, the Fuel Eagle says, once had to go to a Thanksgiving dinner where the host served scalloped potatoes, but they were served cold intentionally. And I have no idea what that was about. Cold scalloped potatoes? Disgusting. That's strange.

Honestly, I'm not a huge scalloped potato person. Okay, what is it about scalloped potatoes? Because my brother hates scalloped potatoes too. But he loves mashed potatoes. He loves baked potatoes. Yeah, I mean, I don't. He loves roasted potatoes. But what is it about scalloped?

I'm not going to turn down scalloped potatoes unless they're served ice cold, which is insane. But, yeah, they're not my first choice in terms of potato preparation. Michael says, I was at a Thanksgiving dinner where some of the participants were vegan. and they had a whole separate spread of food that was vegan and gluten-free. That's nice. I was super curious to try the vegan turkey and the vegan pumpkin pie. Both were like rubbery, leather, with no flavor or texture. Now I know vegan food can be totally fine, but this was not it.

I briefly felt like a Republican. How anti-vegan I was. A Republican. Oh, man, maybe that could be a great question for the next bonus. Republicans against vegans? Well, you know, there's an attitude sometimes. I'm just saying, I think it's really funny when, like, liberal, progressive people have that moment where we're like, nope, uh-uh, not in my America. And I can understand a Thanksgiving where the pumpkin pie doesn't taste right.

It just kind of pisses you off, huh? I might be like, you know what, let's make America great again. Let's not make this vegan. Norman, get my red hat. Which we all know you have, Kristen. Shut it. Les Bot the Digital Cow says, a jello salad with iceberg lettuce and Miracle Whip.

Oh my God. Miracle Whip! Okay, Norm, this was a thing in like the 50s where it was a savory jello. They loved their jellos in the 50s, and they would do like, I mean... Well, Miracle Whip was originally advertised as like something you dip your fruit in. What? Yeah. Ew.

For real. You dip your strawberries and miracle lip. Terrible ideas. Ooh. A local frog says, My stepmother bought Boston Market and then warmed it in the oven with the plastic. Oh, no. Yes, we still ate it.

Yeah, I would too. Oh, no. I mean. You don't have microplastics. You've just got straight plastic in your body. There's an entire takeout container in your body. Beck Lou 17 says sausage brunch. Beck Lou 17.

How dare you? Oh, hang on, I'm going to ban her. Oh. Go ahead and ban her. Oh, okay. Oh, no, that was a joke. I'm not. Oh, okay.

I'm banning her because she said sausage brunch. I thought she had done something. I was like, oh, my God. She did do something. Yeah. She said sausage brunch is terrible. Jesus. Oh, hell yeah with an axe says,

one time I had never seen a cooked beet before, and I thought it was cranberry sauce. Oh, no. So I fucking loaded my plate and learned a difficult lesson. Yeah, because there's some shame. They do look the same. There's some shame if you have to put it back. You can't put it back.

You can't have to put it back. You cannot put something back on the buffet table. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, okay. So you've just got to suck it up and eat those beats. Well, you, yeah, you've got to eat the majority of it. Okay, Temple of Hyman says, one time my ex-husband's grandma made a terrible broccoli casserole. We asked her where she got the recipe and she said,

off the can of cheese whiz. Oh, that's sweet. Oh, my God. Grandma made the cheese whiz broccoli cassero. Gross. I bet that was terrible. Yeah. I don't know.

I find it sweet. Sheld B. Canned asparagus. I had no idea that canned asparagus was even a thing. I didn't either. And yes, it's as vile and slimy as it sounds. Oh, my God. Slimy asparagus.

I mean, yeah, some stuff, I just. just don't need the canned version. Freedom of Peach says, my mother-in-law makes this weird Midwest dish with jello and carrots. Every year I eat some because this dish is a family tradition. You're a good person, Freedom of Peach. I wonder, okay, if, oh, no, I'm trying to make it okay. That's not okay. Jello and carrots.

They're both sweet. Yeah, I mean, I hope to God it's shredded carrots. Like, you don't want a big chunk. Imagine just a whole ass carrot surrounded a bite. Jello. Okay, wait a minute. We got a hater in here. As a Canadian who has American family, I often visit during holidays.

Never have I ever been as offended by something I put in my mouth than sweet potato casserole. What on God's green earth possessed you to make this a staple dish. Okay. Oh, that's it. Okay. Canuck. Head back north of the border because sweet potato casserole is delicious. How dare you?

How dare you? Andy Bashir's Tramp Stamp, which is an excellent Discord name, says, my grandma's cat hair covered cheesecake. Oh, oh, oh, no. That none of us would actually touch. You could visibly see the cat hair. Oh, my God. Gross.

Oh, you know, eventually grandma's got a hand over the reins. Yeah, grandma's eyesight's going. She can't see the cat hair. It's time for someone else to host. Oh my God. Snapple says, my family has a recipe they call green salad. In typical Midwestern fashion, it contains zero leafy greens. It's lime jello, green olives, and sweet pickles. My dad's cousin swears it tastes so much better with a dollop of mayo on top. Oh, my God. I am going to throw up. That is just... Yum. I can't believe it's not pig butter, says. I immigrated to the U.S. at eight years old, so the first... First time I had turkey was the first Thanksgiving in the U.S.

I just thought it was an extra dry and tasteless chicken. Still not a fan of turkey to this day. Okay. I, hot take, I agree with this. Yeah. I don't think turkey's that good. I love it when someone serves up ham at Thanksgiving. I do too.

Big fan. Big fan of ham on Thanksgiving. Now, I'm going to eat turkey. Don't get me wrong. Of course. It's the law. I just think there's superior meats out there. I agree.

My favorite is Christmas with a beef tenderloin. You do make a really good beef tenderloin. It's delicious. Oh, thank you. That's a compliment for my lovey wife. Oh, lovey-dovey. Ooh, Colling and Horny says, When I was like eight or nine for Thanksgiving, my mom made lasagna.

It was fine, but I was violently ill for a week after consuming it. I haven't eaten lasagna since. I'm 28 years old. My God. That happens when you're a kid. You eat something and it makes you super sick and you just stay away from that food for the rest of your life. Yeah. So my thing was chicken sandwiches.

Really? Fried chicken sandwiches. Could not eat them for the longest time, which really sucked because I really liked chicken sandwiches. How old were you when you got sick? I was nine. Okay. And I just puked my guts out. Okay.

And I couldn't have chicken sandwiches for like 15 years. Roadkill Collection crew says, I think my aunt is a great cook, but my mother once told me that she doesn't like it when Aunt Valerie hosts because she cooks exotic things like sweet potatoes. So exotic. Get out of here, Aunt Valerie, with your newfangled things. A potato that's orange?

You won't believe what they call it. Ooh, Bell of the Ball of the Ball says, My mom makes tuna casserole, canned tuna, egg noodles, can of cream of mushroom soup, can of green beans, all mixed in a casserole dish and topped with American cheese

and crispy onions. Oh, Jesus Christ. I learned to cook in self-defense. Oh, my. Call me Little Sunshine. We're going to end on this one. Okay. Call me Little Sunshine.

Gravy with hard-boiled eggs in it. Oh, gross. Like halves of hard-boiled eggs. Not sure if it's a southern thing or just gross. No, it's not. It's just gross. Hi, grew up in the South, never heard of that. Okay, we're going to end on that.

Thank you all. That was wonderful. Thank you all. Thank you all for sharing your disgusting Thanksgiving dishes with us. I don't think I have any that come to my mind. Have you had one? Pretty standard fair. Yeah.

Every Thanksgiving for me. I don't have anything that wild and crazy. Damn. Yeah. I do miss now that, you know, my grandmas are no longer around. We do not any longer have some kind of jello with bits of fruit floating in it. I feel like that that was their generation. But I always took a little.

You feel like that's missing from the table these days? You know, it's not really missing so much. As long as there's a canned cranberry sauce, I'm a happy lady. I like the, my mom serves up a relish tray, which has. like jalapinos and like banana peppers and cherry peppers and pickles and that's my favorite. I like to accessorize my meal. Okay. Don't, don't knock it.

Cherry pepper with turkey is delicious. Okay, okay. All right, let's wrap this thing up. And thank you all for listening. Thank you for being patrons. We appreciate you. Yeah, thank you very much. Hope you enjoyed this bonus episode.

And we'll be back next month, baby. Kristen, you know what they say about history hoes. We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from the article The Flash of Genius by John Seabrook for the New Yorker. The article, Accomplished, Frustrated Inventor Dies by Matt Shaddell for the Washington Post, as well as reporting from the New York Times, NPR, people.com, and newspapers.com. That's all for this episode.

Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon. Well, you already do that. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok at Old Timey Podcast. Join the Reddit community, R-slash Old-Timey Podcast. And follow us individually on Instagram.

I'm Kristen Pitts-Carruso and he's gaming historian. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio! Oh. Bye. Bye.