An Old Timey Podcast - 70: The Japanese Soldier Who Refused to Surrender (Part 1)

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

As a second lieutenant in the Japanese Army, Hiroo Onoda took his job seriously. He’d been ordered to lead guerilla warfare missions on Lubang Island in the Philippines. He was told to never surrender. And when he received word that World War II had ended, Hiroo was certain that the message was a trick. So, he kept fighting. He kept fighting until 1974 – nearly 29 years after the war ended.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Allyra Crowdfunding. “Donation Page by Searching For Onoda.” https://searchingforonodadoc.allyrafundraising.com/campaigns/9769.“Bushido and Japanese Atrocities in World War II.” Michael Fassbender, May 2, 2015. https://michaeltfassbender.com/nonfiction/the-world-wars/big-picture/bushido-and-japanese-atrocities-in-world-war-ii/.“Domitable Myth: Three Depictions of Japanese Holdout Soldier Hiroo Onoda | International Documentary Association.” May 17, 2023. https://www.documentary.org/online-feature/domitable-myth-three-depictions-japanese-holdout-soldier-hiroo-onoda.New York Times. “Hiroo Onoda, Soldier Who Hid in Jungle for Decades, Dies at 91” March 28, 2022. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/18/world/asia/hiroo-onoda-imperial-japanese-army-officer-dies-at-91.html.Onoda, Hiroo. No Surrender: My Thirty-Year War. Naval Institute Press, 1999.“Onoda: The Man Who Hid in the Jungle for 30 Years.” April 14, 2022. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220413-onoda-the-man-who-hid-in-the-jungle-for-30-years.Sims, Watson. “You’re a Better Man, Hiroo.” Battle Creek Enquirer, March 17, 1974.The Record (New Jersey). “‘I Have Done My Best,’ Japanese Holdout Says.” March 11, 1974.Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And I'm Kristen Caruso. And on this episode, I'll be talking about a soldier who wouldn't surrender. Oh, Norm. Oh, Norm. Oh, Norm. I know what this is about. I hear that every night, folks. Okay. Oh, right. Come on. Oh, norm. This is about the Japanese fellas who were over there. They didn't know the war ended. Isn't that right? those Japanese fellows.

That's right, Kristen. Yeah! Oh, take that. Yeah. You didn't like how I really don't know any details about it, but I got it. I guessed it. It's stored somewhere in that nagging of yours. It feels like one of those fun fact stories that I've always been like, I should learn more, and I don't.

But I do today. You will in this series. Oh. Because specifically I'm talking about one soldier who refused to surrender. Okay. All right. Kristen, you got a Patreon plug for us? I sure do.

Hello, everyone. Hi. I'm talking to the listeners, Norm. You just calm down and just think about your life for a second. While I tell the people about what they should be doing with theirs, they should be heading on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Why you ask, I'll tell you, honey, once you're there, you will get a monthly bonus episode. You'll get a...

Don't smile at me like that, Norm. I'm just doing my job here. you'll get video of us telling you the podcast. Telling you the podcast. I'm sorry. I meant to say like a video version of the episode. They know what I mean. Okay.

They do know. Just like when I said the Japanese fellas who didn't know the war ended, everybody knew. Anyhow, I'm still in the middle of this plug, so please stop interrupting. Okay. Do your thing, Kristen. I don't know if the folks can tell that we're recording at night and therefore my ADHD meds have worn off. I'm sure it's not obvious to anyone. But anyhow, also, when you sign up on Patreon,

you'll get to play trivia with us every month. Is it fun? Yes, it is. And you get ad-free episodes. You get a card and sticker with our autographs. Oh, so valuable. Head on over there, won't you? Patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

Great plug, Kristen. Thank you. Thank you. I will say trivia is a ton of fun, so people really should sign up. Like you're pretty... I just spat. What's so funny?

Well, I just thought, you know, I said it was really fun. And you said it's really fun. And it occurred to me that sometimes when people say, hey, this is really fun, you should do it. It's actually not any fun at all. And they're just overcompensating. That's true. But trust us, it's fun. It really is, though.

That's like when someone's on like a street corner handing out flyers begging people to come to their restaurant or bar? Yeah. And it's like, you know it sucks there. That probably sucks. Yep. Fruit flies in the vodka.

We know what's happening. You hate to see it. Well, Kristen, are you ready to learn about a soldier who wouldn't surrender? Yes. Folks, I know we've had a rough time in these last couple of weeks

on an old-timey podcast. We sure have. And this isn't as bad? Well, oh, God. Norm. I'm sorry. You don't seem sorry.

You're smiling. I picked this topic a while ago. Okay. Well, let me tell the people a good thing. I am working on an episode that will be quite fun. No death. Zero cannibalism. I assure you, zero cannibalism.

The children will all be fine. Well, no cannibalism that we know of. I spat again. My God. No, dear Abby and Ann Landers did not cannibalize anybody. I'm like 95% sure. Absence of evidence. Does not mean evidence of absence.

Norm, well said. And you know what, if we're going to pick which one of them did the cannibalism, I'm going with Dear Abby. Why, dear Abby? Well, you'll find out in my episode that she was pretty cutthroat. Oh. Mm-hmm. Maybe.

Literally. Yeah, maybe take a little bite out of the throat, a little nibble on the shoulder. Norm, that's my story. You get to your story. Okay, Kristen. Picture it. It's the 1960s. The place?

Well, you looked a little confused there when I said that. I did because I was thinking, I don't know a lot about the wars, but I know for sure that World War II was done by then. You're correct, Kristen. It's the 1960s. People are grooving around the world. Well, not everywhere around the world. Anyway, where are we? The island of Lubong in the Philippines.

Fun fact. Wow. Wow. Did you know the Philippines is made up of 7,641 islands? That seems like too many. Wow, that's a lot of islands. Islands in the street. There's too many.

Wait, you didn't play the sound bite? We could have had Dolly Parton on this podcast again. That's right again. I wrote my own lyrics. I can't. Okay, that's fine. I can't be like editing in my own lyrics to that song. That's a lot of work.

All right. All right. We don't have the technology. Okay. Anyway, specifically, I'm talking about the island of Lubong. Lubong is the 34th largest island in the Philippines. So not huge, not small. It's kind of... Well, a hell of a lot bigger than most of them. Come on now. It's a long, narrow island, southwest of the Philippines' largest and most populous island, which is Luzon. It's about six miles wide, 18 miles long. It's got everything you want, nature-wise, Kristen.

Lubong has beaches, it's got forests, it's got mountains. Today it's an increasingly popular tourist destination, but back in the 1960s, it was mostly Farmers.com. And on a quiet summer night, a farmer was walking to a hut near his livestock pastures. He had left his dog there for the day to guard the cows, and he wanted to pick up his good boy and take him home. But as he approached the hut,

A man jumped out of it, screaming, pointed a rifle at the farmer's chest. Terrified, the farmer screamed. He threw his hands in the air and yelled, don't shoot, don't shoot. Yeah. The gunwielding man grabbed the farmer, told him to shut up and pulled him into the hut. In the light of the hut, the farmer cautiously peaked at the man. He was short, skinny. He looked slightly emaciated.

He was wearing really worn out army fatigues from several decades ago. What? He didn't know that. Was he up to date on the latest fashions in army fatigues? Well, these were really worn out. Oh, yeah, I guess they would be, sure. You know, locals had been talking about a Japanese soldier living in the jungles and mountains of Lubong. He had been there since World War II, and he was still fighting more than 15 years after the end of the war. He was terrorizing civilians from the shadows of the jungles and throughout the mountains. mountains. The locals called him the mountain devil. And here he was, pointing his World War II era Japanese bolt action rifle at a terrified farmer. The soldier stood the farmer up and told him to walk,

gun in his backside. And they made their way into the mountains of Lubong. Gun in his backside. Yeah, you know, like jamming the gun in their backside, like move, move. I think a backside is your butt. Is it? Norm, I just thought it was your back. Norm, Google backside. I, I don't know. Google backside. I I'm pretty sure that's his butt, and I don't think that's what you mean. A person's butt. Oh, shit. That's not what I meant. It was in his back, not his butt.

I was going to say, this story is taking a weird, weird turn. I got a fetish, fella. Oh, God. I better save myself. Okay. The gun was in his back. And they made their way into the mountains of blue bomb. Why does the tip of your rifle smell?

so bad. Why you smell of my rifle? No one asked you to smell it. Stop it. I'm sorry. Okay. Yes. Okay.

This poor farmer... No, I, yeah. Well, I thought it was going to be even more tragic, but... I know. Okay. So they're in the mountains of Lubong, and there, the soldier started interrogating the farmer. He asked him about all sorts of things.

How much money do you make per day? What's the current price of cigarettes? What is he? My father? Why do fools fall in love? Okay. But he also asked strange questions like, where are the enemy positions? Enemy positions?

What was this guy thinking? It was like he was stuck in another time. Well, this would feel like you were witnessing someone who had time traveled. Either time traveled or they've lost their mind. Well, yeah. And it's scary and dangerous and, oh, he's got a gun too. No, this would be terrifying. What the hell is he going to do?

Yeah. The farmer shook with fright. answering questions for hours. And then finally, to the farmer's relief, he let him go. They ordered him to go home. That farmer bolted from the mountains back to his house. He may not have known it at the time, but that farmer had come face to face with the rumored mountain devil.

His actual name was Hido Onoda, and he was just one of an untold number of Japanese holdouts, who kept on fighting after Japan surrendered in September of, 1945, which officially ended World War II. Japanese holdouts existed for a lot of reasons. During World War II, Japan had occupied a ton of islands throughout the Pacific. Some of them were extremely remote. Many holdouts simply had no idea the war was over.

Others thought that the news of Japan surrendering was a trick of the enemy. Nationalist propaganda convinced them that Japan would never surrender. And even if the country surrendered, many men felt bound by honor to die fighting. Wow. Directly after the war ended, there were thousands of holdouts. But that number dropped drastically as the years went on. Countries sent in their armies to clear them out. Japanese soldiers also died of starvation and disease.

Wait, what do you mean clear them out? Like tell them, hey, go home or like kill them? Kill them. Oh. I mean, when they're attacking civilians. Yeah. Yeah. Japanese soldiers also died of starvation and disease, hiding in the most remote areas.

Lieutenant Hido Onoda in Lubong was one of the very last Japanese holdouts to lay down his arms, which he finally did on March 10, 1974. Oh my God. Almost 29 years after the end of World War II. After finally surrendering, Onoda returned home to Japan. A very different Japan than the one he remembered. He received a hero's welcome. You know, World War II had taken a massive toll on Japan.

Yeah. More than 3 million people were dead. Almost 5% of the total population. Japanese people really didn't have much to celebrate after the end of the war. But then here was Hiro Onoda, a Japanese soldier bound by honor to never give up, to keep on fighting. He embodied the ancient morals and virtues of the Bushido Code. It was inspiring to Japanese people. Of course, all that meant nothing to the people living on Lubong Island in the Philippines,

who were terrorized by Hido Onoda for almost 30 years. It's estimated that Onoda and his comrades killed 30 Filipino civilians. Sadly, their stories have largely been forgotten. So in this series, let's explore the life of Japanese holdout, Hiro Onoda, and his complicated legacy. Okay. All right. You ready? Yeah.

Oh, oh, everybody. Norm's doing some stretches. He's got his iced tea. Oh, it's been a long week, folks. It's been a long week. Do you want to tell him about it? How does it compare to spending 29 years fighting a war that's over? equally bad?

It's just as bad. Yeah. It's definitely just as bad. I can see that, yeah. One week in this house with you, Kristen. Oh, oh. Wait. Oh, no.

There we go. Boy, boy. The button was malfunctioning. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I'm just teasing. So, in the grand scheme of things, Hito Onoda's early life wasn't very remarkable. He was born on March 19th, 1922,

in the small town of Kynon, Japan. Holy shit. What? you don't know what Kynon is. I just thought it was rude that you said it was not remarkable. So I thought I'm just going to remark on whatever Norm says next. Sorry, go ahead. Wow. Hito was the fifth of seven children, five boys and two girls.

Onoda described his upbringing as strict. But overall, pretty normal. He went to school and did well. When he wasn't in school, he loved to practice the Japanese sport of Kendo, which is kind of like fencing but with wooden bamboo swords. Okay. Yeah, looks a lot more fun than fencing. Sounds kind of badass.

All right. Do you ever do fencing? Did I ever do fencing? That feels like a rich people sport. Yeah, it's also, I think it's so funny that, like, you've seen me try to throw a football. You've seen me attempt very basic common American sports. And you know firsthand that I have no skills. But you think, perhaps this woman has done some fencing in her time.

I feel like Kristen may have been practicing Kendo the other day. Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right, Norm. Just like face plant and stab yourself. Onoda's upbringing may have been unremarkable, but he was living in remarkable times, Kristen. During the 1920s and 1930s, Japan was changing. They had rapidly become an industrialized nation in the last hundred or so years. And Japanese military and government leaders believed they could be a strong, self-sufficient nation that could take on any Western power.

Like some countries in Europe at the time, or perhaps even like a certain country today, nationalist beliefs were on the rise. Don't talk about Mexico that way. It's too sad to think about. Okay. So yeah, nationalist beliefs were on the rise. Beliefs like Japan is the best.

Japan deserves more. And Japan should get more. But that's tough when your country is an island. Japan itself lacked raw materials to really become a strong industrial superpower. They relied heavily on international trade. So what do you do when your country needs more stuff and you don't want to trade for it? Easy. You start making your country bigger by invading other countries.

In 1931, Japan invaded Manchuria in northeast China. And that was only the beginning. Eventually, Japan would invade Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Burma, New Guinea, Guam, and the Philippines. Okay, okay, I am going to reveal a backside full of ignorance here, but how are they doing all that? They're a fairly small nation. Small, but they put a very heavy... focus on their military and expansionism. And so they rapidly expanded and invaded other countries.

And these other countries were not prepared at all for what they were up against. That's just is mind blowing to me. You know, it's funny. I think most people think of Japan as entering World War II in 1941 when they bombed Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. But in reality, Japan had been at war for 10 years by that point. Oh, God. throughout Asia.

Okay, I, boy, I'm going to reveal myself to be a big dumb dumb in this series, because that just blows my mind. Have you ever heard about the Russo-Japanese War? No. In 1905, I think it was 1905, Russia and Japan went to war. And Japan beat Russia. Okay, again, how? How?

They had become an industrialized nation. Norm, you keep saying that shit, but that's like, that's... What? I don't know. What do you think of Japan today? Well, yeah, I mean, I think Japan is big and cool and stuff, but like, we're talking about nations that are so much bigger. I have so many more people. Yeah.

You're, you know what? Here's what this is. This is you coming home from a walk and being like, oh, man, I saw the worst dog fight in the park. I saw a chihuahua absolutely kick the shit out of a husky's ass. Oh, no, it was so bad. And me being like, well, how on earth did that happen? You just say, well, the Chihuahua had just really focused on it and really wanted it. Well, okay, let me give you a little more context.

Okay, please. Okay. In like the mid-1800s, Japan made connections with Western nations. Mm-hmm. And Japan was like, hey, we want to be like them. They seem like they know what's going on. We need to like... Barrow from their playbook.

Yeah. Okay. We need to evolve. We need to like become an industrialized nation. And they just like went for it. Okay. Okay. They opened up trade with all these countries. They learned from these other countries' militaries. And they just like went all out on it. Okay. Yeah. And they're going up against countries that have not done that same thing. They may have, but not on the level that Japan had. Okay. You know? Okay. Thank you. Does that make more sense?

Yeah. And frankly, you call yourself a context slut. But I really, really had to pull it out of you. Okay. I got to make you work for it, Kristen. Okay. Got to make you work for that context. By the way, during those 10 years, they were at war, before World War II, Japan did some pretty horrific shit, like the Nanjing Massacre, Future topic. How many people died in that massacre? Oh, I have no idea, but a lot. Oh, okay. Boy. It was bad. Maybe that can be another fun topic for you, Norm. Yeah, well, and those tensions still exist today. Like tensions between Japan and Korea, it's still there from what they did during this time when they occupied Korea.

Yeah, yeah. By the end of World War II, almost 7 million Japanese men served in the Imperial Army. All of this to say, Hiro Onodagh grew up during a time of nationalistic pride. there was an expectation that all boys would grow up to serve and possibly die for Japan. But joining the military didn't happen right away for Hiro Onoda. After graduating high school, he decided he didn't want to live off his parents anymore. It was time to go out and be somebody. No doubt there is also the factor of,

ugh, my parents are a drag, man. You can't tell me what to do anymore, mom and dad. Did Hiro call his mom a bitch like Kristen? we simply don't know. Everyone, I just want to be clear. I want to be clear about the type of household I was growing up in. I did one day summon the courage. I called my mama bitch, and then I ran up the stairs to my room to hide.

Is it because you couldn't go to the mall? What was the reason again? You know, I don't remember the exact reason, Norm, but I'm sure she deserved it, okay? And it was very brave of me to flee the scene. You're right, it was. Never seen my dad so afraid. Yeah. Never in my life.

Yelling and insult at someone and then running away is very brave of you. Oh, I didn't yell it. It was kind of under my breath as I was leaving the room. And then once I uttered it, I really took off. So you knew it was bad what you were muttering. Are you kidding? Yeah, it was terrifying. But the situation called for it, Norm.

I'm sure she deserved it. Okay. It was like that key and peel sketch where they're like, and I said, Did you whisper it? Yes. Anyway, Hito got a job with a local trading company called Tajima Yoko. Their business was lacquerware.

What's that? So it's like objects, usually dishes covered in multiple layers of lacquer, which gives it a super shiny, glossy look, very popular in Eastern Asian cultures. Okay. The Tajima Yoko Trading Company had an office. in the newly conquered Japanese territory of Hancao, China, which is today called Wuhan. Oh. And they wanted Onoda to go there and manage accounts and suppliers,

which for an 18-year-old must have sounded pretty exciting. Well, it sounds boring as hell, if I'm being honest, but also very important. I can't believe an 18-year-old got to do that. He was very good in school. He was working for a local company, so they probably were familiar with him and his family. Sure, yeah.

He may have had a connection. But you know, for an 18-year-old, this must have sounded kind of exciting because Onoda would be out living on his own, making his own money, taking in all the sights of another country. He was pumped. He thought one day, I'm going to be a rich businessman. The gig was also appealing because Onoda's older brother, Tatao, was currently a lieutenant in the Imperial Japanese Army, and he was stationed in Hongkow, China. And he hadn't seen his older brother in a while. Okay. So in April of 1939, Hiro Onoda arrived in Hongkau, China.

And he immediately went and found his brother, Tadao. Tadao was shocked to see him there. And honestly, he wished his little brother had not taken that job. He said, don't you realize you might get killed in China? And that was a fair take. China was currently a war zone. Japan had only just recently occupied the city of Hongkow. Okay, well, that explains why they gave an 18-year-old such an important job.

That's a good point. Probably a hard job to give away. Okay. Yeah. Man, no one's taking this job in a war zone. That's weird. To sell lacquerware. Uh-huh.

Very important in a war zone, you know. And Tadou had already experienced combat. It was not fun. It was not glorious. He did not want his little brother to experience it so soon. But Onoda brushed it off. You know, he wanted to be somebody. He wanted to make a name for himself.

And that means sometimes. you got to take risks. So Onada worked at Tajima Yoko Trading Company. He also lived at the company in dormitories located on the third floor of the office building. Oh, my God. I always found that super interesting. And I always wondered, like, what would that be like today? Like, if I had a corporate job and I just went to another floor to sleep.

Well, that's kind of what we do right here at an old time you podcast. You're blowing my mind. You're right. It's funny. Yeah, we're both like, wow, that sounds awful. Wait, one beat. Oh, that's the life we're living. That's literally what we do. Shit. You've blown my mind. I need to go for a long walk after we record.

Anyway, when Onoda wasn't at the office, he was, as Jha Rule would say, Living it up. Ono Da was a frequent visitor to the French concession zone in Hongkow, China. And if you're wondering what the French concession was, So back in the day, France and China made a deal for France to basically own 187 acres of land in Hongkau, almost like a colony. Huh. So there's this small section of the city that was owned by France and governed by France, but it was completely surrounded by the city of Hongkau. That is so weird.

Okay. It was from an old treaty back in the day between France and China. I think France took advantage of China. But anyway, that's what it was. Okay. So in that French concession were dance halls, bars, women. Onoda was dancing. He was drinking.

He was flirting. He recalled, quote, My upbringing had been very strict, and I was starving for affection and indulgence. Oh, okay. And that was Onoda's life for the next few years in Hongkau, and he was loving life. But there was always that thought in the back of his mind

that he was going to get drafted. He tried to stay positive. He thought, hey, maybe the war will be over by then. Then I can just stay here and keep working and keep living it up, like Jha Rule said. And one day, I can run my own company and be rich. But with nationalist Japan, that was never going to be a possibility. And in 1941, Japan had their sights set on a new target, the United States. The United States was probably Japan's biggest threat in the Pacific.

They threatened to halt their expansion, and they were implementing economic sanctions and trade embargoes on the country. Japan thought a surprise attack on the naval fleet station in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, would severely disrupt U.S. operations and force them to negotiate. So, on December 7, 1941, Japan bombed the U.S. naval base at Pearl Harbor. And the very next day, the United States declared war on Japan. After that, things changed very quickly for Hiro Onoda. An anti-Western sentiment was now in full effect. The Japanese government shut down access to the French concession, blocking it with military police. They declared any Japanese person who went there, quote, the vermin of Asia.

Oh. Onoda would be living it up no more. He commented those days were, quote, all the youth I had left. His older brother, Tadao, had been transferred back. to Japan, leaving Onoda feeling alone and isolated. His dreams of becoming that rich, successful businessman, were fading. And then the following year in May of 1942, the Imperial Japanese Army came knocking. Congratulations, Hito. You get to serve your country. Onodah took his physical. Height. Five foot four. Wait, 132 pounds. He was deemed physically fit to serve and would be joining an infantry

Regiment later that year in December. With his rich businessman dreams dashed, Onoda had a new thought. Maybe he could make a name for himself in the military. You know, it would make his family proud. Mm-hmm. He would make his country proud. You know, be all that you can be? Sure.

So that summer, Hito quit his job in China and returned home to train for the army. He was fully committed, baby. He spent every day exercising, swimming, practicing Kendo at the job. Jim. And then that December of the year of Our Lord, 1942, Hido Onoda started his army service. And he did well, rising to the rank of private first class. Superior officers were impressed. They said, you know, you'd make a really good officer one day. But Hito didn't want that. He said he didn't want to feel different. Really? Yeah. He didn't want to be that asshole barking out orders. He wanted to be in the trenches with his fellow soldiers. you know, fighting the good fight.

Did he feel like there wouldn't be as much glory in being an officer? Absolutely. Okay, okay, because that makes sense then. Yeah. But, you know, he quickly changed his mind on that. Onoda's regiment was immediately sent into combat near Nanchang China. Their objective was to clear out enemy guerrilla operations in the countryside. Onodah recalled it being a miserable experience.

It was freezing cold, so cold that his rice meals. froze in his backpack. He shivered all day and night. And then during battle, Onoda injured his right foot. It's not clear how. Maybe he was shot. Maybe a nasty sprain. Bone spurs. Oh, ah, my foot. I like how the possibilities range from a bullet to the foot or a sprain. Yeah, he was like, oh, my foot. I guess you're going to have to take me off the front lines. Oh, okay. And he was. He was sent to a field hospital to. recover. It was then that Hiro Onoda decided, you know, maybe being an officer wouldn't be so bad. So he took the officer's exam and he passed. In the summer of 1943, Hiro Onoda enrolled in officer training school.

And he learned all sorts of new skills, Kristen. He learned horsemanship. Machine guns. And artillery. Boom! Wow. Boom! Please, Norm, it's like I'm right there. I like to immerse the listener in the story, you know.

But the greatest thing Onoda learned during training was incredible discipline and attention to detail. He said, quote, the worst disgrace was to be caught unprepared or uninformed. Nothing should be handled in slipshod fashion, no matter how trivial it might seem. His instructors had a motto, better to sweat on the, training ground than to bleed on the battleground. Okay, that's a good motto. Yeah. Sounds like something you'd see hanging in a high school football locker room. Oh, okay. Right? Extreme. I spent so much time in high school football locker rooms. Well, as a yearbook, member of the yearbook, did you interview players or, you know, cover the games at all? I really tried to stay away from any

kind of sports story. That's fair. His older brother, Tadao, later paid him a visit, and Tadao was impressed. He commented, you look like a real man now. Onoda replied, I'll die like a man, too. Oh. Yeah, so to us, this might seem like a shocking thing to say. But to every Japanese soldier serving during World War II, this was completely normal.

During this time, Japan revitalized the ancient samurai code of Bushido to inspire the people. You know, think of Bushido like chivalry. You know, long ago it meant that only samurai who were prepared and willing to die could devote themselves fully to their cause. And so Nationalist Japan took this Bushido code and kind of bastardized it. So instead, soldiers were taught, quote, do not live in shame as a prisoner. Die, and leave no ignominious crime behind you. What's ignominious mean? Okay, I'd never heard of that word either. Okay. But apparently it means like shameful. Okay. So like shameful crime, I guess. It was considered disgraceful to surrender. There was honor and death for your country. It's why Japanese soldiers

were known for bonsai charges rushing at the enemy lines with swords or kamikaze attacks, purposely flying planes directly into enemy ships. Yeah. That's an incredible. incredible amount of buy-in you would have to get from people. Well, and taking the Bushido code was big, because that's a very, like, sacred, honorable thing in Japanese culture and to be like, yeah, here's what it means to us today. And just, like, basically convince people, yeah, dines what you need to do for your country. That's what the samurai would have done. Okay, but how many people were like, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I take that code and I'm real serious about it. And then they just kind of, you know, oh, we're all going in the front line. Yeah, I'm right there with you. Oh, shit. Oh, no doubt. Retire my shoe. But it doesn't seem like that was a big thing. It seems like people really bought in.

I'd say most Japanese soldiers bought in, yeah. Man, the propaganda must have been popping. You ever seen that movie letters from Iwo Jima? No, I saw Nutty Professor 2, the Clumps recently. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. They don't take place in the same universe. Actually, no, I guess they do take place in the same universe. I guess technically.

Think about that. I'm thinking about it. No, Nadi Professor 2 is not based in reality. There's no way that could happen. Yeah, Norm knows science. I do. The science is bullshit in that movie. But letters from Iwo Jima, fantastic film,

talks about the Battle of Iwojima from the Japanese perspective. And one of the characters is a Japanese soldier who does not buy in to the Bushido. We all have to die. Yeah. It's really good. We should watch it sometime. Okay. Well, as soon as I finish Nutty Professor 2, I'll go on to that one.

Sounds good. Sounds good. Sort of like a prequel to Nutty Professor 2. Letters for Miwajima. If a Japanese soldier was taken prisoner and then returned to Japan, he would be court-martialed and possibly face. the death penalty. Oh my God. Sometimes soldiers faced shame, humiliation, and were ostracized when they returned home. So basically, dying on the field of battle was kind of expected. Yeah. Onoda was no exception. In the summer of 1944, Onoda finally graduated officers training school, which, by the way,

it seems like a long time to be in school, especially with your country at war and they're losing the War. Yeah. He was in school for like a year. Crazy. But once again, his superior saw more potential. Hito Onoda was smart. He was athletic. He was fluent in Chinese. Okay. He could be more than just an officer. He could be an intelligence officer. A spy. A guerrilla fighter. I do love a spy story. A saboteur. In the Imperial Japanese Army, these men,

men formed units known as pacification squads. Over here, we might call them commandos. And it was all very cool and very top secret, Kristen. I believe it, and I want to know more. Superior officers told Onoda to forget all about his old life. There would be no great honors or military parades or ceremonies in his future. He was going to be doing stuff that the average soldier could not do. You sound pretty excited about this.

I love spy shit. You know this about me. You knew I'd be excited about this part. I love the costumes. I love the little stories they make up about themselves. You do like spy stuff. Why'd you say that with judgment? No, no judgment.

I just, it like hit me that, oh yeah, you've been watching like those wired interviews with like, interview with a CIA operative of 30 years. Yeah, it's very cool, norm. Yeah, ask the internet. Uh-huh. FBI agent or something. Yeah, I like that stuff. Well, so did Hito Onoda.

He found it all very inspirational. It felt very exclusive, like special. And sure, there would be no public honors for him, but that feeling of pride and accomplishment, that would be off the charts, you know. What a way to build someone up to a point where, oh, yeah, if you're getting a parade, If everyone knows your name and face,

that's because you're not as cool as this group. We actually look down on the people with the parades. Right. What, do you need a bunch of candy thrown at you? Here, I'll do it right now. Meanwhile, you're in the alley eating raisinets. Ew, why do I have to have raisinets? No one's looking at you, though.

Okay, no. A spy would never. A spy would never do that norm because raisinets are such a weird, terrible snack. It could be memorable. People know this. I love Raisin Nets. Yeah, so I'm sorry, you can't be part of my spy club. No boys allowed.

Well, what candy would you eat? Whatever was the most normal, non-descript candy in the area. In the area? Oh, because you're a spy, you don't want to give it away. Yeah. So if you were eating Raisin' Nats, be like, look at this weirdo eating Raisin' Ed's. There must be a spy. They're not from around here.

Norm, it's about not being memorable, okay? We don't eat raisinettes round here, lady. And everyone knows that. We're a goobers kind of town. I'm sorry. There's not a funnier candy than goobers. I like goobers, too. What are goobers?

I think it's just chocolate-covered peanuts. Oh, God. What's it? Your candies match your name. Oh. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

So old-fashioned? Yeah, like old-man candies. No. Like, oh, what I'd give for a pocket full of Wurthers and some raisinets and some goobers? How about a Charleston chew? No. I can't wait to get home. I take a big old bite of bitto, honey.

And how about a, what are those mallow? What are those things? That's like a local Kansas City delicacy, those mallow. It's just like chocolate shell with like melted marshmallow in the middle or something. It's terrible. It's depression-era candy that, some reason has stuck around because of people like Norman, obviously. They are good. I do like those a lot.

My God. What about the cherry? There's like a cherry thing. A cherry bomb thing. Yeah. Cowtails. Anyway, shall we move on? Strawberry wrapper.

Norman. Candy. Walker's cookies. Anyhow, I'd be in my trench coat with just like a normal Hershey bar. Nothing to see here, folks. Okay. That would be weird. No one eats a Hershey bar.

When's the last time you saw someone? You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. By a Hershey's bar and just eat it. Yep. No, you're right. You're right. Yeah, that would be very suspicious to me.

I would be caught and waterboarded immediately. With Hershey's milked chocolate, they'd melt the bar over your face. So yeah, Hiro Onoda was committed to become an intelligence officer. So he started training, and it was fast-paced and intense. He learned wiretapping, intelligence gathering, guerrilla warfare in which, quote, every available particle of information is used to throw the enemy into confusion. Particle of information, my goodness.

Can you believe it? He learned to take mental notes everywhere he went, like how many troops could be stationed here. What's the average size of a house? How much food is available? What kind of industry is here? Onada was taught to notice and evaluate literally everything around him. But then Onoda learned something that went completely against his beliefs as a Japanese soldier.

Superior officers told him, whatever you do, try to stay alive. That was kind of shocking at first. This was completely opposite of what most Japanese soldiers were taught. But as an intelligence officer, Onoda would be more valuable alive than dead. So no more suicidal charges, stay alive. alive as long as possible, inflict damage on the enemy as long as possible, and if you're captured, you feed the enemy bad intelligence. Disruption.

It was all about disruption. Norm, I am loving all of this context because, like I said, I've only seen like the headline of this story, and my thought has always been, God, how strange, how sad. But this is all really making sense. when you hear about his training. We love providing context here on an old-timey podcast. So, as long as Onoda was breathing, he must cause as much chaos and destruction as possible.

By the time he graduated in November of 1944, his skills were badly needed. The war was going very bad for Japan. The United States had initiated an island hopping campaign, also known as leapfrogging. So they captured strategically important islands, which cut off Japanese supply lines, and it isolated their armies on various islands. So as a result, Japan's resources dwindled. But they were still holding on to a few key territories, and one of them was the Philippines, which the Americans had begun invading.

For the average soldier, the Philippines seemed like a hopeless situation, but not for Hito Onoda. He had now fully bought into the cause. He was ready to go to the Philippines and carry out guerrilla warfare against the Americans and that eventually somehow Japan would emerge victorious. Onoda said, quote, we consider Japan to be the invincible land of the gods. Wow. In Onoda's mind, losing the war just was not an option. Before leaving for the Philippines, Hito Onoda visited home one last time.

His parents asked him where he was going. Onoda couldn't say it was top secret. But he did tell them this. It's possible that I may be reported dead when I'm not. If you're told I've been killed, don't think too much about it. I may show up again after a few years. Wow. Yeah.

And then his mother went to the cabinet and pulled out a white dagger. Onoda recognized it. It had been passed down in his family for generations. His mother handed it to him and said, if you are taken prisoner, use this to kill yourself. So, yeah, even family members and everyday citizens had bought into the nationalist propaganda. Well, yeah, they would have to. Part of that would be you don't want to return to your family because they will be ashamed of you.

Well, specifically, if you return to your family because you had been captured or surrendered. Well, yeah, I get it. Yeah. No, I'm not just saying they can't come home. Yeah. You better die out there. No, of course they wanted their soldiers to survive. Yes.

But specifically, there was this whole notion of like the disgrace and shame of being captured or surrendering. Right. Yeah. So yeah, he got this white dagger from his mother. And Hito thanked his mom. But in his mind, he was like, kill myself. That's not happening. Yeah, I'm too important.

Didn't my mom hear that I can't tell her where? I'm going. Yeah, top secret mom. See, this is why I'd be a bad spy, because I would feel so cool about that. You'd have this little look on your face.

Well, yeah, because I wish I could tell you where I was going. Part of being a spy is being so nondescript and boring. That's right. And if people bought into it too much, I'd be like, I'd love to tell you more about myself,

but I can't because I'm so important. Mm. Yes. I bet you'd have a lot of friends talking like that. I think I'd get killed immediately. Top CIA spy Kristen Pitts was found dead. I never make it to this top. I wouldn't make it through the entrance exam.

Was found dead at the local Benny Hana when she was bragging to some patrons about her spy efforts. She had been a spy for three minutes. After graduating from spy school, she celebrated at the local Benihana. Why'd I go to Benihana? To celebrate. Oh, God. Duh. Okay.

Remember when we went to Denver and we were picking up the rental car? Yes. And we were like, and we were, we want a dinner. We were like, hey, do you have any recommendations for where we should eat? We asked the rental car. We asked her for a good local. Yeah, do you have a good local place to eat? And she was like, ooh, you know, a lot of people love, uh, BD's Mongolian grill and barbecue.

And we were like, okay, thank you. Thank you very much. And we did not go there. We went to the Cherry Cricket. Shout out to Cherry Cricket in Denver, Colorado. Wouldn't it be funny if instead we went to Olive Garden? Well, when you're there, your family. That's right.

We're like, ha, ha, ha, what a stupid hoe. We will be taking ourselves to a little place called the Cheesecake Factory. Okay. Don't joke. I've never had a bad meal at Cheesecake Factory. I love Cheesecake Factory. The joke is we're going someplace new. We want to try something.

Local. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. But if worse came to worse, yeah, I'm going to Cheesecake Factory. I know you are. I know. So, two days after visiting his family, Hiro Onoda and his oldest brother, Toshio, walked to the train station. Toshio was a medical officer in the army, and he wanted to see his little brother off. And before he left, Toshio told Hido, take care of yourself. And with that, Hiro Onoda was off to the Philippines. Neither of them imagined that they wouldn't see each other again for 29 years. On December 22nd, 1944, Hiro Onoda arrived in the Philippines on the island of Luzon, the country's largest and most populous island.

So on that island is like the city of Manila. You've heard of Manila, right? Of course. Yeah. As he walked off the boat, air raid sirens blared nonstop. Onoda looked around only to see soldiers casually walking around, ignoring the air raid sirens. They seemed completely unbothered by them. Onoda asked why.

One man replied, oh, those sirens are always going off. The Americans bomb here one day and then Manila the next day. And today it's Manila's turn, so we'll be fine. Wow. That's the current situation for the Japanese army. It was only the beginning of the grim news. Two days later, on Christmas Eve, American bombers dropped Christmas cards on the Japanese troops.

The card had a picture of a cute little lamb. With a message, we are now in the South Pacific. Hope to ring in a happy new year with you. It was ominous. It was disturbing. Onoda felt his body tense up. Later that day, Hito met with his commander, Major Yoshimi Taniguchi

Taniguchi filled him in on the situation and you're not going to believe this, Kristen, but it was not good. At this point, the Imperial Japanese Army could only stall the American advance. They had no air support. Troops and supplies had to move at night under the cover of darkness. There was zero naval support. The Japanese naval strategy at this point in the Philippines was to use suicide boat squads

to ram into enemy ships and explode. And it's all to just delay what they think the Nazis were going to help them out? Just hold them off as long as possible. Well, things weren't going well for the Nazis right now either, Chris. And I don't think they could help out Japan in any way. Norm, I watched a fascinating program on the History Channel. And it turns out Hitler is still alive today. So I think everything turned out fine.

Interesting. Can you imagine if he was still alive today what he would smell like? I mean, Hitler smelled bad back in the 1930s and 40s. Right, right. Imagine what he would smell like today when he's old, decrepit, rotting Adolf Hitler. Yeah, you know, it's funny. That wouldn't be my first question about him. Why do you smell so bad? I come out and I'm like, don't worry, guys. I did a great job, getting all the intelligence. I got every particle of it.

He said that he has a flatulence problem. It's well documented, but he doesn't want to talk about it. But I did get him to talk about it. And boy, there were some wet ones. And finally, I just had to excuse myself from the room. At this age, he's got nothing but dry powdery farts. And they do smell terrible, but they're not wet anymore. Okay.

Tonight on CBS News with Nora O'Donnell, a sit down with Adolf Hitler. I guess my first question is, why do you do you? smell so bad. Have you seen the Mark Maren joke about how if Hitler were alive today, he'd go on Theo Vaughn's podcast? He absolutely would. And Theo Vaughan would be like, wow, that's interesting. I never really thought about that for like everything Hitler says. Okay, Mark Maren has a thing about how Theo Vaughn would be like, yeah, so you guys were like doing drugs and stuff, right? You're all on drugs, uh-huh, uh-huh. It would be like, yeah. That was a terrible Theo Vaughn impression. But You know, we get the idea.

Yeah, that's too real. Okay. Too real. That's fair. Mm. So, yeah, things aren't going good for Japan and the Philippines. Yeah. Then Hito Onoda received his orders.

I will read them to you now, history hoes. Officer Onoda will proceed to Lubong Island, where he will lead the garrison in guerrilla warfare. Is that it? That was his orders. Wow. Okay. Well, actually, I have more orders coming up. Hang on.

The small island of Lubong contained an abandoned airfield and a pier. The Imperial Japanese Army anticipated that the Americans would probably want those things, and so Hito Onoda's orders were to destroy the airfield and the pier and conduct guerrilla warfare. Then Onoda got his final order. You are absolutely forbidden to die by your own hand. It may take three years, it may take five years, but whatever happened, we will come back for you. Wow.

Until then, so long as you have one soldier, you are to continue to lead them. Under no circumstances are you to give up your life voluntarily. Wow. What do you think of that? I mean, this is all making a lot more sense now, truly. So when you first heard about this story, you were like, how on earth, why did he do that? And now you feel like you're understanding why he was doing this? Well, yeah, I mean, my initial thought was, and I'm still curious about this, and I'm sure you're going to cover it in the series, but like, how did they not get word out to everyone?

But also, yeah, I guess I don't know. I just didn't understand how that could happen. Yeah. Well, in future episodes, we're going to have some discussion about how it happened, why it happened, and. I'd prefer to discuss candies we have known and not loved instead. Could we do that? Oh, that would be a good trivia night. Candy trivia?

What do you think? I think we should do it. Yeah. Like, the question was chocolate-covered peanuts and you had to pick what the candy was. I like the idea of getting some naked candy bars and you have to identify. Naked? Oh. So they're out of the wrapper.

What did you think I meant by? Naked candy bars. Honestly, my mind wondered to like... You looked kind of intrigued and a little horny, sir. And I am just going to have to ask you to stay away from the Snickers. Well, my mind wondered to like an anthropomorphic Snickers bar like with like a bust and a booty. I know it's been a long week. It really has.

There's something going on right now in my head. I got to get through this episode. Okay. And then I got to go get a Snickers bar. Clearly. Clearly. Clearly. So yeah, his orders were, under no circumstances are you to give up your life voluntarily.

Hito Onoda replied, yes, sir. And with that, he set off for Lubong Island. He filled a boat with dynamite, landmines, grenades, ammo, maps, camouflage, anything he could get his hands on to help him in the fight. As he loaded up the boat, a fellow officer asked where he was going. I'm going to Lubong, said Onodah. Is he allowed to say that? He was another officer.

It's fine. The officer replied, Oh, sorry to hear that. Come on, have a beer with me as a farewell drink. In other words, that other officer figured he was going to go off to die. Yeah. Other men felt like Lubong Island was a lost cause. But Hiro Onoda was determined.

He would do his duty. He would lead his men and disrupt the American advance. But then Onoda arrived at Lubong Island. Island and oh boy there were a little under 200 Japanese soldiers guarding the island and guarding what exactly the airfield had some fuel and a few bombs but there were no planes the pier worked but the Japanese could only use it at night in the cover of darkness and besides that there were Filipino civilians mostly farmers who grew rice and raised cattle. Nevertheless, Onoda reported for duty to the island commander. He was like,

I'm Lieutenant Onoda and I'm here to conduct guerrilla warfare, baby. Oh, God, sounded terrible. That's the Donkey Kong sound from Mario Kart 64. Well, I hated it. By the way, isn't that, that would be an awesome name for a Donkey Kong game? What? Donkey Kong, guerrilla warfare. Yeah, I'm kind of shocked it hasn't happened already. Nintendo, free idea. It's yours. Wow.

I love to be charitable with Nintendo, you know. Well, yeah, there's a struggling company. Yeah, they'll get there one day. One day they'll be as big as LJN. Oh my God, that's a joke for the nerds if I've ever heard one. That's right. We got nerds listening. We know.

So anyway, the Island Commander heard that and was like, Guerrilla warfare. I thought we were being taken off this freaking island. We got to stay here? When Hito Onida inquired about blowing up the airfield and the pier, the commander was like, hell no, to the no, no, no.

Hell to the no. He was like, no, we're not blowing that up. We need that pier to evacuate Lubong Island. And yeah, the airfield's kind of run down, but it's got good bones. It's a real fixer up. You know what I mean? Let's just chill for a bit.

And I bet they're going to send another boat to pick us all up. You know, Hito Onoda was dead set on his guerrilla warfare mission. But the other soldiers on Lubong Island, they just wanted to leave. Sure. And I guess I didn't realize until just now that he wouldn't be kind of in charge. No. I mean, he was a lieutenant. Sure.

But there was a guy above him on the island already. But they're telling him, go do this impossible task. No one is interested. No one will help you. And your boss is going to tell you hell no to the no, no, no. And sing a song that you've never heard before, although somehow you have heard Jarl rule. We don't know. We don't ask questions.

What's Jha rule up to these days besides Fire Fest? I don't know. Future topic? Jarl rule? Yeah. Jarl rule? Yeah. The people demand it, please.

I don't have my ding. He's gonna say, poor Jarl, what if he's listening? All right, how about this one? Future topic? Yeah. There we go. That works. Okay, so yeah, all these other soldiers on Lubong Island are like, we just want to leave.

Can we leave, please? Hito Onida was annoyed. He knew that the chances of rescue were slim to none, given the situation. Why not just blow up the airfield, blow up the pier, stay and fight. guerrilla warfare style and Onoda could teach them and lead them and show them how it's done. But you know, what could he do? He had no authority to like overrule the island commander. Right. And so they waited. And they waited. And they waited.

There's a lot of waiting actually. Mostly waiting for the inevitable American attack. No boats came to rescue the soldiers on Lubong Island. On January 3rd, 1945, it became very clear no boats. were coming to rescue anyone because the Japanese soldiers spotted the American fleet sailing towards the big island of Luzon and it was enormous two battleships four aircraft carriers four cruisers countless destroyers a hundred and fifty landing boats filled with men the Japanese soldiers knew it was only a matter of time before they made their way to Lubong Days passed, weeks passed.

Off in the distance, American bombs and artillery and guns lit up the sky across Luzon. Food supplies dwindled. Japanese soldiers demanded rice from the Lubong civilians, and most of them refused. A town mayor said his people would starve if they gave up any of their rice. They also were scared that the American troops might attack them for helping the enemy. Hido Onada recalled that moment and said, quote, the islanders were taking advantage of our helplessness because they knew Japan was losing the war, to which I say, duh. Yeah, that's just being smart.

Yes. Also, Japan had been occupying the Philippines since 1942. The Filipino people were ready for the Japanese to go. Yeah, get the fuck out. Taking advantage. Yeah. Please. Of course, the Americans had also.

been occupying the Philippines for a while. So it's a whole thing. Everybody leave. But you know, Kristen, food was not the only problem for the Japanese soldiers on Lubong. Many men suffered from fever and fatigue and dysentery. And soldiers had no clue what was going on anymore because they had now lost all contact with Army headquarters. And there are some serious copium happening at this point.

Oh, I'm sure. Guys were like, hey, maybe the American. are just going to ignore Lubong. I mean, it's so small. There's nothing here. What do you think, guys? Maybe we're actually winning. I think we might be winning the war, actually. Well, we're going to hear some of this stuff, actually. The copium was off the charts. I mean, when you have no information, it makes sense that there would be copium. Well, and Hiro Onoda seriously felt that way in the coming years. Things were getting grim. Soldiers were now openly discussing how they would eventually kill themselves. Wait, so they're not like, let's build a boat and get out of here?

No, I think they had accepted that the Americans were coming and they were going to fight to the death, basically. And so it's like, okay, do we do a bonsai charge? Do we play dead and leave a live grenade on our body? So when a medic comes to check us, the grenade explodes. These were all things that the Japanese did. Okay. Hito Onada fumed inside about the soldier's morale. He called the Japanese soldiers a bunch of good for nothings,

quick to profess their willingness to die, but actually concerned only with their immediate wants. Which, I don't like that, Hito. I don't think Hito had been in the Philippines long enough to experience what those soldiers had been experiencing. Yeah. He did not understand why they were so done. demoralized. He was kind of like the new kid, you know. Sure. So for him to say that, I just,

I just don't like that. Well, regardless, Hito Onoda wasn't about to be dragged down with those men. He did everything he could in preparation for the Americans. He laid explosives at the airfield and pier. He set up decoy planes to distract American pilots who would waste bullets on them. Meanwhile, more days went by. More weeks went by. And then, on February 28th, 1940s, It happened. From the mountains of Lubong, Hido Onoda spotted about 50 American soldiers landing on the west side of the island. They had finally arrived.

The Japanese soldiers rallied. Wow, there's only 50 of them. We should attack! But Hido Onoda believed this was a decoy. Why would the Americans only send 50 troops to take the entire island? you know, surely there were more coming from somewhere else. Right. A fellow officer was like, no way, that's all of them.

I'm going to take 15 guys. We're going to flank them and we're going to wipe them all out. Okay. And how many Japanese soldiers are there? A little under 200 on the entire island. Yeah, so you would be feeling like, yeah. Yeah, we got this. We got this.

Well, and the Japanese know the terrain. Yeah. They know their environment. Also, they have a huge advantage. Boyes, you know. Doe boys. Isn't that what they were called? Yeah, I guess they were.

Yeah, you're acting like I'm making up turns. I'm thinking of popping fresh right now with an Army helmet. Woo-hoo. It's hard to take him seriously, but he is deadly. No, they're thinking, we'll shoot. He just absorbs the bullets. There's nothing we can do. We'll shoot those guys just fine.

They're so big. This is fun. What a fun episode. So yeah, this other officer was like, I'm taking him up. boys, we're going to go get those guys. Uh, yeah. Hito never saw those men again. Yeah.

And his prediction turned out to be true because the next morning, hundreds of Marines, along with armored tanks landed on the opposite side of the island. Artillery smashed down around the island. Planes unloaded bombs. The Japanese troops' only option was to hide in the mountains. The Americans slowly moved in, trapping the Japanese. They were completely surrounded. bullets whizzed by everywhere.

Hido Onodan, his fellow soldiers, hit in a ditch. When one man stood up, he was instantly shot in the head. Trapped with nowhere to go, Onodon his men spent the night in that ditch. The next day, with no hope of relief or reinforcements, Hido Onoda made the decision to attack. There were American troops ahead of them,

but there were also mortar shells exploding behind them. So what choice did they have? Yeah, I guess go out swinging. Yeah. As the old saying goes, there's only one way out of hell, and that's through it. Onoda and 15 men loaded their weapons and moved toward the American position. But they soon discovered the Americans were gone. They had abandoned the mountains.

As Onoda and his men made their way further up the mountain, he soon realized why. From the high elevation, he could see that the Americans had captured the airfield and the people. the two things that Onoda was ordered to destroy. Oh. He had failed. Onoda said he felt great shame in that moment. Yeah. Hido Onoda and his small group of soldiers wandered through the mountains.

The next morning, they came upon a Japanese sick tent. Inside were about 22 soldiers, gravely injured. Many of them begged to be killed. It seemed like the decent thing to do. But because of his training, Hito Onoda figured, Why not do some damage as well? He and his men rigged the medical tent with explosives. And then they left.

When the Americans eventually came by to check on that sick tent, the injured soldiers set off the explosives. Wow. Hito Onada later said all that remained was a hole in the ground. It was now clear that any organized counterattack was not going to happen. The Americans had landed at Lubong on February 28, 1945. By March 3rd, they had taken over the island. So four days.

Yeah. For the Japanese, there was nothing left but stragglers, like Hiro Onoda. They wandered through the forest, hiding from the Americans, looking for other Japanese soldiers. Onoda recalled that during that time, he could see American chewing gum wrappers littered everywhere on the ground. Freaking sloppy Americans. Yeah, littering. it made him furious. He wrote, quote,

Here we were, holding on for dear life. And these Americans were chewing gum while they fought us. I was more sad than angry. The chewing gum tinfoil told me just how miserably we had been beaten. That is a really good point. Yeah. Yeah, it's like this is kind of casual. Yeah, chewing gum, shooting people.

Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like, this is kind of casual. This is just not even a fight for us. And they can't even get food. These guys are chewing gum and shooting at us. It's the Miami Dolphins playing against a peewee squad. I thought you were going to say it's the Miami Dolphins against like the Buffalo Bills. And you're saying Miami Dolphins are the Japanese soldiers.

No, no, I know how much you love the Miami Dolphins. I wanted to give them a win, okay? You know, I'm not feeling too good about this season, but, you know, I got to support my boys. How do you feel about their decision to play only pee-weed teams? I think they're going to destroy those kids. Oh, they're going to kick ass this year. The few Japanese soldiers that remained agreed to split up. It would make it harder for the Americans to find them all if they were split up.

Are the Americans still looking that hard for them? Yeah, they've got scout teams patrolling, you know. After that, Hiro Onoda would occasionally hear gunfire or grenades going off in the distance. meaning that the Americans had found some of his comrades and killed them. Yeah. To evade the Americans, Onoda and his men were constantly on the move. Almost every day, American scouting parties were looking for the Japanese soldiers in the jungles and mountains. But by September of 1945, Hiro Onoda noticed that the gunfire had ceased.

And he also noticed that most of the American troops were leaving Lubong. he wasn't sure why. He didn't think to himself, I guess I kicked their asses. Yeah, that'll teach him. Unbeknownst to him, a lot had happened since he first arrived in the Philippines nine months ago. The Americans had won the Battle of the Philippines. In March of 1945, they took the volcanic island of Iwo Jima, where American troops raised the flag on Mount Suribachi in that iconic photo.

You know that photo, Chris? Everyone knows that photo. It's a great photo. Flags of Our Fathers, movie about that flag raising. Directed by Clint Eastwood, who also directed letters from Iwo Jima. Okay, great. The more you know. Doon, do, do, do.

This is why people listen to an old-timey podcast. For random Clint Eastwood facts? Movie facts. Okay. And by the way, I would give Flags of Our Fathers five bags of popcorn. Terrific film. And also three flagpoles. Up the backside.

Kristen and I have recently been binging on cinema at the cinema, which is a Tim Heidecker parody show about a movie, like a movie review YouTube channel. It's so funny. It's a little too real. It is a little too real. As someone who's been in content creation on YouTube, it's very funny to me. But we do love that they're running gag is. every single movie they review gets five bags of popcorn.

Literally every single movie is five bags of popcorn. They love every single movie. They just love movies, you know? Sure. So the Americans, they won the Battle of the Philippines. They took Iwo Jima. In June of 1945, the Japanese island of Okinawa fell. Hashtag Norm's Birthplace.

Hashtag Fatest Baby that had ever been born. Hashtag Fatest Baby ever born in Okinawa. at that hospital that was your record at the time at time I should call them and see if I still have the record sir we don't

we can't tell you that information HIPAA violation and you're like well no in 1987 they're like oh yeah definitely yeah yeah yeah we remember your chunky butt yep yeah my mom was in the delivering room

this is why I became a nurse because she told me all about this fat baby It took four nurses just to hold you. Yeah. I weighed 10 pounds when I was born. Why are you asking me? I think it was 10. I was not there.

Okay. I think you were more than 10 pounds. I was like three weeks late too. I was chilling. You were. I think you were 10 pounds and an assortment of ounces as well. Yeah, I was a big baby. So yeah, the Americans took Okinawa.

hashtag Norm's birthplace. An invasion of the Japanese mainland seemed imminent. But that all changed on August 6, 1945, when the United States dropped an atomic bomb on the city of Hiroshima, Japan. Yeah. Three days later, they dropped another one, this time on Nagasaki, Japan.

It was a new type of warfare, one that forever changed the world. It's estimated that those two bombs, killed between 150,000 and 246,000 people. The vast majority were civilians. That is just unimaginable. Yeah, it's future topic for sure, the atomic bombs, but... Yeah.

It is just horrible. What a horrible... Well, and kind of unnecessary, right? That is a debate amongst historians that has existed since they drop. the bombs. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I haven't looked too much into it, but there is a lot of literature about it. Yeah. Should we have done it? Should we not have done it? Based on what little I know, my thought is we did not need to do that. Yeah, just from our position in the war and from how bad things were going for Japan. Well, and also like for the sake of humanity, we shouldn't

I've done that, you know. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's just, oof. Anyway, so after that, Japan had seen enough. On September 2nd, 1945, they surrendered. World War II was officially over. That is, if you actually heard the news, Hido Onoda and his men did not.

They continued to hide in the jungles and mountains of Lubong, living off meager rations of rice and wild bananas. bananas. For them, their orders were still the same. Survive, fight on as long as possible, and wreak havoc until you are rescued. But wreak havoc on what exactly? The citizens? Yeah. Well, that seems really shitty and unnecessary. They're not the enemy. I know. Those bubblegum snapping Americans are, and those dudes left. There's still a few around. Okay, well, get them. Kristen!

Fire on American troops. Well, no, I'm just saying like, this just feels terrible for the everyday farmers and citizens. Right. So the Japanese soldiers' position was they are now assisting the enemy. And so now they are the enemy. Well, good grief. I know. I know.

War sucks. Yeah. It's horrible. I just want to be clear. I'm not saying, oh, go get the soldiers. It's just. You're saying focus on. attacking the soldiers, not innocent civilians.

Yes. Yeah, I get that. Sadly, that also meant wreaking havoc on civilians. Oh, I said it a little too soon, huh? Yeah, premature effectulation right there. I'm about to bust. During that time, a 12-year-old boy named Ronaldo Voluntad was working on his family's farm when he was shot through the nose by Hiro Onoda and his men who were trying to steal cattle.

Ronaldo said that sadly those attacks would become all too common. He said, quote, that time was one of great suffering. It would last another 29 years. Good grief. After the war, reports of Japanese holdouts were coming from all across the Pacific, including Lubong Island. Rooting out every Japanese holdout would be a long, difficult, and deadly task. During the war, the Japanese had built very intricate underground times.

tunnels and trenches and caves. For U.S. troops, even very small islands could sometimes take weeks or months to clear out. So instead, the Americans hoped to convince Japanese holdouts to surrender. So they started dropping leaflets, lots and lots of leaflets. The first leaflet fell on Lubong in October of 1945. Hito Onoda picked one up off the ground, and it read, The War Ended, Come Down from the Mountains. Oh, well, that just sounds like a trap.

Yeah, well, and as an intelligence officer, Hito Onoda couldn't take this message at face value. He studied it, he thought about it, and he eventually concluded, this was a trick. They want us to come out of hiding so they can kill us. How many men does he have at this point? It's unclear, but they're split up. Okay. He has like three other guys in his group. Okay.

And we will meet them in the next episode. Oh, okay. So he and the other Japanese soldiers ignored the leaflet. At least the ones in his group did. Well, yeah. We don't know for sure what the other soldiers did. A few months later, in December of 1945, Hido Onoda found a new leaflet.

On one side was text. It was the surrender order of General Yamashita. He was the Japanese general of the Philippines campaign, aka the big cheese. So it was word for word, his surrender order for his troops. And then on the other side of the leaflet was a map of Lubong with a red circle drawn around Onoda's location in the mountain. So do you think that was enough to convince them that the war was over? That's the thing. I don't know how you convince somebody of this.

Because they're fully. bought into... Well, and also, literally anyone could type that up. Right. So I don't know how you would prove it to somebody. Yeah, anybody could type that up. And again, your feeling is Japan will never surrender. Yeah.

We will always fight. Yes. So yeah, that leaflet didn't do anything either. Onoda recalled, quote, there was no doubt in our minds that this was an enemy trick. They thought, why would a general order a surrender? We never surrender. So the men tore up the leaflet.

1945 came to a close. World War II was over, but Hiro Onoda's guerrilla war was only beginning. Ugh. On the next episode, I'm an old-timey podcast. The world searches for Hiro Onoda while he terrorizes the people of Lubong. Oh gosh.

You know, Norm, I'm realizing the other thing I didn't know about this story, was that he was terrorizing civilians this whole time. I thought he was like hiding out the whole time. Interesting. You say that. It is kind of a forgotten part of this story. Well, intentionally forgotten to make him a hero. Yeah. Sure. And, you know, we're going to talk all about it in future episodes. But, yeah, there were people living in Lubong. And Hito Onoda, obviously, yeah, he hid, kept himself out of sight, but like he and his men shot at civilians all the time.

Yeah, I mean, that's terrorism. Yeah. Constant terrorism for decades. Mm-hmm. It was terrifying for those Filipino people. Yeah. Yeah. Can you imagine you're working in your farm and three Japanese soldiers show up with rifles pointed at you?

No, I... You feel like you can't go out at night? See, that's the thing. is like, you know, one big act of terrorism is one thing. That's awful. But constant small acts of terrorism. Sustained over almost 30 years. In a very small place. That changes people's psyche. That affects generations of people. It does. They live in fear. I mean, wow. Yeah.

Thanks a lot for bringing us this story after the Bath School Massacre and the Donner Party. You're welcome. Norm, this is very fascinating. Oh, thank you. And I appreciate all the context. You know me, Kristen. I do. I got to give you all the context.

Well, Norm, shall we wrap it up? I guess we shall, Kristen. Unless you have anything to talk about. Well, no, I was going to say no naked candy bars here. We're wrapping it up. And boy, because I wanted to excite you. I saw how you lit up inside when I mentioned naked candy bars. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Any updates on Stephen Douglas? I have not thought for one minute about Stephen Douglas. Stephen Douglas watched 2025. I got to make a whole website and campaign, and we have to get to the bottom of this. I think the truth is that I was wrong about Mr. Stephen Douglas. The other truth, though, is that I don't super care. Fair enough.

I think that if Stephen Douglas is what people take away from that, Donor Party series, I did a shit job. Awful job. If that's what people take away, they're like, I was in that whole series. And man, I just don't know if Stephen Douglas served in the Illinois militia or not. All I can think about is Stephen Douglas and how short he was. That was a great series, by the way, it's honor party. Oh, thank you.

Fantastic job on that. You, sweetie pie. But you know, Normie C's back in the driver's seat, baby. Oh. All right, buckle up. You know what they say about history, house? we always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from The Book,

No Surrender, My 30-year War by Hiro Onoda, and the BBC article, Onoda, The Man Who Hit in the Jungle for 30 years. And other sources, check the show notes. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe.

Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community R slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. She is the beautiful Kristen Pitts-Karuso. I go by Gaming Historian.

And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio. Goodbye. Bye.