An Old Timey Podcast - 71: Hiroo Onoda Fights a Non-Existent War (Part 2)

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

World War II was over. (Really. Truly.) But a group of Japanese soldiers stationed on Lubang Island in the Philippines weren’t convinced. They didn’t believe that Japan had surrendered. So they kept fighting. They terrorized locals. They evaded capture. Over the course of several years, Japanese officials made multiple attempts to convince the soldiers that the war had ended. Each time, Hiroo Onoda dismissed those attempts as enemy propaganda. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Allyra Crowdfunding. “Donation Page by Searching For Onoda.” https://searchingforonodadoc.allyrafundraising.com/campaigns/9769. “Bushido and Japanese Atrocities in World War II.” Michael Fassbender, May 2, 2015. https://michaeltfassbender.com/nonfiction/the-world-wars/big-picture/bushido-and-japanese-atrocities-in-world-war-ii/. “Domitable Myth: Three Depictions of Japanese Holdout Soldier Hiroo Onoda | International Documentary Association.” May 17, 2023. https://www.documentary.org/online-feature/domitable-myth-three-depictions-japanese-holdout-soldier-hiroo-onoda. New York Times. “Hiroo Onoda, Soldier Who Hid in Jungle for Decades, Dies at 91” March 28, 2022. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/18/world/asia/hiroo-onoda-imperial-japanese-army-officer-dies-at-91.html. Onoda, Hiroo. No Surrender: My Thirty-Year War. Naval Institute Press, 1999. “Onoda: The Man Who Hid in the Jungle for 30 Years.” April 14, 2022. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220413-onoda-the-man-who-hid-in-the-jungle-for-30-years. Sims, Watson. “You’re a Better Man, Hiroo.” Battle Creek Enquirer, March 17, 1974. The Record (New Jersey). “‘I Have Done My Best,’ Japanese Holdout Says.” March 11, 1974. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And I'm Kristen Caruso. And on this episode, it's part two of my series on Hiro Onoda, the Japanese soldier who wouldn't surrender. Boy, he just kept on keeping on, didn't he? Norm, do you have a real fun, peppy episode for us today? Hmm.

Not quite. Hmm. Sorry. You know, I tells it like it is. Okay. The story. All right. I already apologized in part one for bringing another bummer of a story.

Uh-huh. But, you know, we got to keep it fun and positive. As we always say before we record every episode. Okay, for real folks, we do that. It's really nerdy. Or is it cool? No, it's like a mantra. You got to pump yourself up, you know?

Uh-huh, uh-huh. You want to be the very best like no one ever was. What are you quoting? I don't know what you're quoting. I won't say. Hey, Kristen, please. please let the listeners know that you have a new hairstyle, new color. Everyone?

If you're watching the video version, you would know. Good segue to the Patreon. Wow, wow. Norm, that was a brilliant plug. Hey, everyone, I have a new hair color. That might not seem like a big deal to you. But to me, it's brand new. It's brand spanking new, fresh out of the package.

I got it done in a salon, but you know what I mean. and I'm in that phase where every time I look in the mirror, I'm like, who put this wig on me? I did post about it on Instagram, showed it off. People were very nice. So thank you to everyone. But if you want to see video of this new hair color. And I know you do. Head on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

What will you find there? Oh, only everything you've ever dreamed of, big boy, for just five dollars a month. Why did you say that? like a creepy old man. I'm not sure. And it can't be undone. This is the train. It's taken off. It's out the station. Norm, you can't stop the weirdness. Folks, once again, we are recording in the evening, and you know what happens. The ADHD meds, they wear off. I can't be blamed for anything that I say in this episode, but I can be blamed for luring you to our Patreon, where you get a monthly bonus episode, a whole episode, once a month, the video version two. My God. You also get

a card and sticker with our autographs. Oh, how lucky for you. Ooh, you'll probably frame it. And, and wait, there's more. Add free video episodes. Oh, what more could you want? Fine, fine, you want to get in our Discord and shitty chat the day away? We'll let you in.

That's right. Wait, wait, what's that? You want the whole back catalog of episodes of my old rotting decrepit podcast. Let's go to court. Fine, you can have them, baby. Get on in there. Patreon.com. slash old-timey podcast.

What? You want nudes of Normy C? Well, you can't find them on patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. I am not trying to traumatize anybody. Or turn anybody on. Both equally bad. Yep.

One in the same. Hey, Kristen, are you ready to learn more about Hi, Hido Onoda? I am. You're a little curious history ho, huh? I tell you what, I know there's going to be complicated feelings. Yeah, it's a complicated story. We're going to get into that this episode. As someone who gives up frequently, I really admire the idea of someone absolutely never giving up even when they definitely for sure should.

So I'm entering this with some admiration, but I also know that this guy does some terrible things for no GD reason. And that's... It sure does. It's going to be fun this episode. Mm-hmm. But before we get into it, I have to recap part one. Previously. We learned about a Japanese soldier who kept on fighting after the end of World War II, Hiro Onoda.

Hiro Onoda had a seemingly normal upbringing. He was born in the small town of Kynon, Japan. He was the fifth of seven children. He did well in school. He enjoyed the sport of Kendo. But you history hoes know, that context is key. And Hiro Onoda was living in unprecedented times. Unprecedented.

Presented? Presented? Yeah, you said presented. Like the president. Well, there was no president in Japan, so I'm sticking by it. Unpresented times. Japan was changing as a country. There was a rising nationalism and militarism sentiment.

And this led to a policy of expansionism. Japan invaded many countries throughout Asia, including China, Korea, Vietnam, and the Philippines. Hido Onoda knew that eventually he would be drafted into the Imperial Japanese Army, just like his older brothers. And it was considered a great honor to fight and possibly do. die for the empire of Japan. But before that could happen, Onoda was, as Jha Rule would say, Living it up. At the ripe age of 18, he took a job in China and partied hard.

He danced, he drank, he flirted. And Onoda had hope. He thought, hey, maybe the war will be over before I get drafted. Then I can stay here and become a rich businessman. But that was a pipe dream. In December of 1941, Japan launched a surprise attack on the U.S. naval fleet stationed at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, plunging Japan further into war. Six months later, Hiro Onoda was drafted into the Imperial Japanese Army.

But again, this was considered a great honor, and Hiro Onoda embraced that philosophy. He trained hard and did well. Superior officers took notice. They thought, you know, Onoda, you'd make a great intelligence officer. Spy shit, guerrilla warfare. Sabotage, the works! So Onoda became an intelligence officer, and he loved it. I felt very exclusive and special.

It was the Burger King Kids Club of the Imperial Japanese Army. Ew, boo! What? Burger King sucks. I'm sorry, that's not new information to anyone. We'll talk about this later. Okay. As an intelligence officer, Hiro Onoda learned to avoid enemy capture, gather intelligence, and be very aware of his surroundings.

It was all about attention to detail. But he was also taught something that went against the norm, stay alive as long as possible. No suicidal bonsai charges or blowing yourself up? keep fighting, and if captured, feed the enemy bad information. In the winter of 1944, Onoda got his first assignment. He would lead guerrilla warfare against the Americans on the small island of Lubong in the Philippines. Onoda was ready to lead men into battle,

but when he got there, he found around 200 demoralized Japanese troops. They were low on food, weapons, and supplies, and they had been cut off from all communication. There was no hope of rescue or relief. Eventually, the American troops arrived, and in four days, they had captured Lubong Island. But Hiro Onoda was alive. He and several other soldiers hid in the dense jungles and mountains of Lubong. For months, they avoided capture. And by September of 1945, many of the American troops left Lubong. Why? Because World War II was over. But Onoda didn't know that. He and his men continued to fight, and that included attacking innocent Philip Filipinos civilians. Plains dropped leaflets onto Lubong, claiming the war was over, that Onoda and his men should surrender.

They could go home and be their own boss. But Onoda didn't believe it. As an intelligence officer, he questioned everything. And these leaflets were clearly a trick by the enemy. World War II was over, but Hito Onoda's war was just beginning. And that is where we will pick up our story today. I like what you did there. What did I do? The war was over, but his war was just beginning. That was cute as hell, Norm. Oh, can we talk about the Burger King Kids Club?

First of all, I didn't even know that was a thing. What? The Kids Club? Well, I guess if you've never ate at Burger King as a child, you wouldn't know about the Burger King Kids Club. We were a proud McDonald's family. Thank you very much. Now, the Burger King Kids Club was way cooler than the Happy Meal at McDonald's. You know how I know that's not true?

Why? Because no one's heard of it. But we've all heard of the happy meal. Okay. Well, I will let the history hose absolutely impale you on that take. So, yeah, I'm just going to leave it to them. I do like how much we're supporting these small local businesses on an old-timey podcast. We're a small, independent, sexy little podcast, and we really want to give some shout-outs to those tiny corporations that only do good.

We're just being nostalgic. This isn't about supporting Burger King. Okay. This is about the past, baby. We're an old-timey podcast. Right, because I currently love Taco Bell. I don't care how many times they send me to the toilet. I still love them, and I'm always going back, baby.

Kristen's order, two crunchy taco Supremes and a cheesy gordita crunch. And if she's feeling a little spicy that evening, chips and cheese. I never do all four. Come on now. I'll have to check the order history. Yeah, yeah. That's a real desperate day. Okay.

Let's get into this episode, Kristen. In our last episode, I mentioned that Hito Onoda was not alone on Lubong. There were several other Japanese soldiers holding out as well. And to avoid capture, the men split up into small groups. So let's talk about Hito Onoda's group, which consisted of four men. Obviously, there was Hito Onoda, who was 23 years old at the time. And as the highest ranking man, he was kind of the leader of the group. What do you mean, kind of?

He basically was the leader of the group. Okay. I mean, I don't know much about the military, but I would assume they take hierarchy very seriously. So hearing kind of the leader seems a little sketchy. But he was a spy boy. So, you know, we make exceptions for our spy boys. I'm just thinking that, like, they had no communication with Army headquarters. The island commander was dead.

Right. There's, like, no organization anymore. So it's really just like, well, I guess you're the highest ranking guy now. So you're in charge. Yeah. And again, the war's over. Norm, you don't have to keep telling me that. I know.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And then there was Corporal Shoichi Shimada. Shimada was the oldest man in the group at 31 years old. Oh. Yes.

31 was considered old for an infantryman. I'm 31 years old. That's rough. Why is that rough? to be 31 taking orders from a 23-year-old. And maybe as the 31-year-old, you're like, I don't know, man, I believe these leaflets that say the war is over. Hmm. Interesting. Oh, should I hold off on that thought?

Yeah. Yeah, 31 was considered old for an infantryman. Well, it's disgusting. What? To be that old. Oh, hmm, I didn't say that. You know, it's funny. I guess it's not funny, just an observation.

Saving Private Ryan is like one of my favorite movies of all time. I know, very cliche. White guy likes saving Private Ryan. Okay, whatever. Anyway. You seem a little defensive. A little defensive. I think it's a great film.

Tom Hanks plays a captain of an Army Ranger unit. Tom Hanks was like 42 years old when they filmed that. And there's just no way. An Army Ranger captain would be 42 years old in combat. How old would they be? I mean, I feel like, 31 would be around the max. Okay, okay.

You know, it's like in the high school teen movies when they put like a 30 year old as like a high school senior. And it's very obvious they are not in high school. There's a scene in Breaking Bad where there's a kid in the front row. And it's like, what were they thinking saying this guy is in a high school chemistry class? This adult man. I rewatched Mean Girls the other day. And I, you know, as an actual high schooler going to high school, I did not question the casting choices at all. But sitting there watching it, especially some of those extras, like who do they think they're fooling besides Kristen in 2004?

Kristen in 2025? Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You're a lot smarter now. You're not fooling me. It kind of gave me a complex as a kid because I would see these, you know, high schoolers and they have like be. beards and stubble and stuff

and I look at myself and I'm like pasty soft skin little boy Norm and I'm like I wish I could grow a stubble Norm how old do you think you will be when you accept that you cannot grow the facial hair you so desperately desire?

I feel like by the time I'm on my deathbed I will accept that it's not happening because I'm dying. Oh great. Anyway yes Corporal Shoichi Shimada 31 years old, oldest man in the group.

He had come from a rural farming community in Japan. He was married with a young daughter. Oh my God, get him off that island and back home. He also had another kid on the way. Oh, Jesus. Corporal Shimada was excited to learn if he was having a boy or a girl. He was super talkative, he was very cheerful, kind of a rarity among the troops there. Yeah.

Very positive guy. But don't let the kindness fool you, Kristen. Corporal Shoichi Shimada was an excellent marksman. He was the best shooter of them all. In fact, he had won Army medals for his skills. Also in the group was Private First Class Kinsichi Kozuka, age 24. Kozuka was like the complete opposite of Corporal Shimada. He did not talk much.

He always had a stoic expression. But Onoda commented that Kozuka had a, quote, positive air about him. Kind of the bad boy of the group, you know. Okay. Are you trying to make a boy band out of this group here? You know, maybe I am. Maybe that's the vibe I was going for.

There is always one old one. Right, right, there is. Who was the old guy in, like, in sync or backstreet boys? Well, I'd have to go back and look at their ages, but I assume Joey Fetone. Joey Fetone, isn't that new kids on the block? No, that, oh my God, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. This is not important history, but it's important to me, damn it. In sync. In sync. Okay. There is an old guy and new kids on the block. He was like way older than all the others. That's the old guy's job. His name's Danny. That's all I know. Okay. Great. Anyway, Kozuka, you know, no one really knew anything about him because he didn't talk much. He said his family had a farm just outside of Tokyo. Hito Onada believed he may have come from a wealthy family because Kozuka said he owned a racehorse.

which is definitely a rich man's sport. Okay. Private first class Kinsichi Kozuka had completely bought into the cause of the Imperial Japanese Army. He was fiercely loyal and he was prepared to die fighting. And finally, there was private first class Yoichi Akatsu. He was the youngest man of the group, 22 years old. He was the son of a shoemaker in Tokyo. His family was very poor.

Akatsu had joined Onoda's group after stumbling upon. their camp looking for food. Oh. And at first, Hido Onoda didn't want him. He was skinny. He was a weakling. He could be a liability to them. But Akatsu begged. He was like everyone else in my group is dead. I'm all alone. Corporal Shimada took pity on Akatsu. I think as a father, he was a little more sensitive and empathetic. Sure. Shemada eventually convinced the others to let Akatsu stay. Each man was a soldier, first and foremost, they carried a bolt-action rifle and a pistol, a couple hundred rounds of ammunition, and a few grenades. By the way, a loyal history ho, asked where Hito Onoda and his men stored all of their ammunition. She was familiar with the story, and she always wondered, where do they store all that ammo?

Right. So they actually put all of their bullets in empty whiskey bottles, and then they hid the whiskey bottles in, like, rocks and caves. Huh. Well, I guess you do hide the whiskey bottles. Okay. Where were you thinking? Well, I was just thinking, you know, someone comes across a whiskey bottle. They're going to be excited. They're definitely going to open it. So. Well, it was a clear bottle.

Okay. And it's hidden. All right. All right. They're going to look inside and say, like, hey, this isn't whiskey. These are bullets. I'm just thinking if I wanted to really hide something, I'd put it in a toe fungus bottle. I don't know how big the bottles of toe fungus are these days or back in the 40s, but you know These are just free ideas, okay? Okay, and no one's opening the toe fungus bottle. Yeah.

Dr. Kristen's authentic dog piss. Ew, what? Well, that would be a bottle. No one would want to open. Okay, that's fair. Mm-hmm. I was so caught up in being Dr. Kristen that I was genuinely surprised by how disgusting my product was going to be.

We bottle it fresh, straight from the dog to the bottle. Stop it. That's enough. We make a mess doing it, but it's fresh, baby. I'm telling you. We have not invested in a funnel. Anyway, they were soldiers first and foremost, but each man also had a unique set of skills, so they split up the work accordingly.

Hiro Onoda was the cool, sexy, intelligence officer and the guy in charge. He gathered intelligence. He planned out strategic movements. He also was drawing up possible counterattack. on the airfield in Lubong so they could take it back for the Japanese. No one's there, dude. I know, I know. He's planning, though.

Okay. He's writing it down. All right. But, you know, that wasn't super useful while you're trying to survive out in the jungle. Hido Onoda admitted, quote, my training had done nothing to fit me for a primitive life in the mountains where the greatest enemy was nature. Luckily, he had corporal Shimada.

Shimada had grown up on a rural farm and knew, quote, the art of staying alive. He made the men's sandals out of straw. He taught them how to construct makeshift huts to stay dry during the rainy season. He helped them find food. Hido Onoda said that without Shimada, the men may not have survived. Oh, they definitely wouldn't have. This is becoming the book Hatchet, by the way, isn't it?

Oh, man. They're just out there surviving. Loved Hatchet. I know. We all did. Also loved my side of the mountain. Yeah, another great one. Mm-hmm.

I think I've told the story in the podcast before, but after I read Hatchet, I was like, I'm going to go live in the woods. I told my mom, I'm off to live in the woods, and she was like, okay, I think I lasted 15 minutes. I was like, man, this is hard, and I walked back home. That sucks. You know, I'm a little peckish. I was like, man, I don't even know where to start. Did your mom not give you the drama that you were hoping for with your declaration?

Yeah, I really thought she'd be like, oh my gosh, you know, please don't go. You must stay. Please don't go. And I wanted to fire back with like, you know, modern society's not for me. Yeah, yeah. Well, you were a tough kid for sure. Right, right. Ready to give it all away.

Yeah, I didn't do well. But these guys did well thanks to Corporal Shimada. The stoic Kinsichi Kozuka was a natural soldier. So he was kind of like the guard of the group. He scouted for enemies. He went on patrols, stuff like that. And then there was little Yoichi Akatsu. Oh, how little was he?

I mean, I don't know how tall he was, but he was definitely the smallest guy in the group. Okay. He kind of struggled to find a role. He couldn't be trusted on guard duty. Apparently, whenever the group encountered enemies, Akatsu would kind of slunk out. Suddenly made himself, what's the phrase? You make yourself. Scarce.

scarce. Well, I mean, isn't he the one who survived and was like everyone else in my unit is dead? He did say. Well, now we know how that happened. Yeah, he slunked out. Uh-huh, he slunked out. Well done. Very smart. Kozuka thought that Akatsu was morally and physically weak. Oh, come on, man. He wanted Akatsu gone. He was going to put him all in danger. But Akatsu stuck around. Now, he wasn't trusted to do anything important. So he's kind of given grunt work. They kind of were like, okay, go get firewood, go get water, you know. Yeah. Stuff like that.

With everyone's role in place, Onodas Group did well for themselves. They decided to only live in the southern portion of Lubong. It was the least populated. And they were also constantly on the move to avoid detection. Onodaz Group set up several campsites in the area, and they stayed at each one for like three to five days. And then they would go to the next one. And every time they moved, they hauled everything with them. What an exhausting way to live.

Yeah. No kidding. You're never stopping. And they did this for, well, I guess I don't know how long all of them lasted. Onoda and his men were determined to keep fighting on. But the same can't be said for the other Japanese soldiers on Lubong. Some died, having been spotted and killed by the Philippine army. but most of them surrendered because they were starving.

They couldn't go on. In April of 1946 alone, 41 Japanese soldiers on Lubong surrendered. By the summer, Hido Onoda and his men were the only four Japanese soldiers left on Lubong Island. Those other soldiers who had surrendered sometimes left notes for Onoda to find, letting them know that, hey, it's safe to surrender. You don't have to hide anymore. Oh, man. But Hido Onoda refused.

He believed it was the enemy, forcing prisoners of war to, quote, go along with their trickery. Or why the sigh? I mean, I get it. How do you convince someone? See, this is what I, I guess I'm stumbling over. I stumbled over it last episode, too. how do you convince someone who is so certain Japan will never surrender

the enemy is out to trick me you know that's understandable to feel that way but yeah how do you how do you convince someone no for real it's over yeah and as you'll see later on in this episode they tried a lot of stuff to try to convince them

okay I am intrigued I was going to just leave in the middle of this but I'll stick around. Thank you for staying, Kirsten. I can't do this show without you. I know. It's true, though. I can't.

We make a great team. Oh, how cute. We're like Bonnie and Clyde. We're like the Bonnie and Clyde of podcasting. They committed crimes, Norm. We're committing crimes, too. This show should be illegal. It's so good.

Oh. What do you think of that? I think you're completely right. So, yeah, those other soldiers left him notes, and he was like, nope, not surrendering. the fiercely loyal Kozuka agreed with Onoda. He was like, yep, that's definitely a trap. Not going to surrender.

But Corporal Shimada and the little Akatsu, they were kind of like, hmm, maybe the war is over. Yeah. I mean, why would our fellow soldiers leave us notes like that? I do understand being skeptical. But at a certain point, I do think you'd say to yourself, well, this war can't go on forever.

It makes sense that it would end eventually. Why not now? Is it so crazy to think that it ended now? Well, we'll get into that later. Okay. But there was a belief among the Japanese people that this war ends with either Japan is victorious or total annihilation of Japan. Oh, so if we're still breathing. If we are still here,

The war is still going on. Okay. So yeah, Shimada and Akatsu were like, maybe the war's over? Kozuka lashed out at them. How dare you question our leader, Lieutenant Onoda? He's an intelligence officer. He knows more about this stuff than anyone. We are here to fight until the very end.

Oh, my God. This is not nose kid. Eventually, Shimada and Akatsu sheepishly agreed. Pure pressure, I guess. No, no, that's not what's going to have. happen. What's going to happen, Kristen? Okay, I'll tell you what I hope happens, and then I'll tell you what I'm afraid is going to happen. Okay, what do you hope happens? What I hope is that these two fellas, you know, they're tending the fire one night, the other two are asleep, and they're like, hey,

I'm pretty sure it's over. Are you sure it's over? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's over, and if not, I'm willing to risk it. I mean, what kind of life is this? So you think they're going to slunk out? of them. Yeah, slink out together. That's what I hope happens. What I fear will happen is that the hero of this story is going to catch wind of this plan. He's going to sniff it out. And he's going to shoot these dudes for being disloyal. I see. It's funny when you said they slink out. I imagined them rolling down the hill like a slinky. They slink out. And they're like, wee. I hope we're right about this, but either way, we're having fun. Wee! You should see us go downstairs.

I could never make a slinky go down very many stairs. Oh, it was the best. Don't rub it in. So satisfying. Also, couldn't really hula hoop much. These are my sad stories. Kristen, if there's one thing this series will teach you, it's never give up. No, I think this dude should have given up, so I'm learning the opposite.

For the next several years, Hido Onoda and his men went through a trial by fire. They learned to live off the land. They ate bananas, iguanas, water buffalo, wild boars. That's water buffalo. It's, hmm, how can I describe a water buffalo? It's like a big black cow with horns, but they're like not as fat as cows. All right, body shaming. All right.

Google water buffalo. When you see it, you'll be like, oh, that's a water buffalo. Oh, that's a big a pizza pie. No, this is, yeah, this is very good. I will say, what are the first images that pops up on Google is just a picture of a water buffalo, very unflattering angle on the fella, kind of taken from down at the chin. I do see that one. Yeah, if I were that water buffalo, I'd be really upset.

I'd be like, hey, get the camera angle higher, please. This is going on the Insta. Yeah, come on. All right. Well, water buffalo, that looks like pretty good eating. Now, iguana is it? I don't know. Yeah.

So they were learning as they went, you know. Sometimes the men would attack farmers. They would steal their rice and cattle and any tools they had. And then the police or the army would show up and gunfire was often exchanged. And the men would learn when to stay and fight or when to run away. Yeah. It was kind of a miserable existence in those. early years, especially during the rainy season. From July to October, it rained almost every day

on Lubong. The men were constantly wet, their skin turned white and wrinkly, and to make matters worse, temperatures would drop harshly at night, so it made them bitterly cold. This sounds awful. Yeah. It all became too much for a private first class, Yoichi Akatsu. And so every now and then, the men would wake up to find Akatsu. was gone, but inevitably they would see a little fire burning in the distance alone in the mountains. Corporal Shimada would always go out and bring Akatsu back. The men feared he would rat them out to the enemy. But eventually they gave up. In September of 1949, after spending four years together, Yoichi Akatsu left them for good. Corporal Shimada tried to go out and get him, like he always did.

but Onoda and Kozuka said, just let him go. He was not worth the headache anymore to them. They assumed he would surrender and probably even squeal about their location. But Onoda later learned to his surprise that Yoichi Akatsu had survived on his own for six months before finally surrendering to the Philippine Army. And sure enough, he did talk. In 1950, Onoda and his men found, a note written by Yoichi Akatsu. It encouraged them to surrender. It read in part,

When I surrendered, the Philippine troops greeted me as a friend. Soon a plane was circling above their head, tracking their movement. That had never happened before. Yeah. The three men quickly hid and moved their camp. A few days later, Onodana's men heard loudspeakers blaring through the jungle. A voice said, you have 72 hours to surrender. If you do not surrender in that, At time, we will have no alternative but to send a task force after you. So, Kristen, what do you do? If you are Hiro Onoda, do you believe it's safe to surrender now? I mean, okay.

I, no. I think you just gave Iro Onoda a boner, because this is what he's wanted this whole time. This whole time, all he has wanted to do is fight somebody. Now, I want to fight with somebody. I want to exchange bullets with somebody. Yeah. He did do that. No, I, on the one hand, I get it.

They've tried the nice logical, hey, all your friends are here. We're all good. Come on down. So they've tried the nice thing. Now they're trying the mean thing. But yeah, to me, that, oh, God, I don't know. I don't know. It is.

It is. Well, once again, Hito Onod. refused to surrender for a couple of reasons. The first one was that he just didn't trust Yoichi Akatsu. There was no doubt that he ratted them out and he would have no problem working with the enemy. Okay, no wonder this guy just was like, I'm done, I'm going to live on my own for six months.

These guys were so mean to him, except for the extremely rotten, old, decrepit guy who is the oldest person to live ever. Yep. I'm 31 years old. So yeah, he didn't trust Yuichi Akatsu, so anything he said, he was like, sure, well, I don't believe you. But Onada said that the other clue was that over the loudspeaker, they heard that voice that said they had 72 hours to surrender. And Onoda said that was really strange verbiage because if the Japanese were looking for them, they would have just said three days.

Like 72 hours was not a phrase in Japan. Okay. That was a very American thing to say. Oh, no. Oh, that's good logic. So Onoda was like, this is a trick. Yeah. This is the Americans.

They're trying to capture us. Oh, no. And so they ignored it. Three days later, or as we say here in the US of A, 72 hours later, the supposed enemy kept their promise. a group of six Filipino soldiers slowly walked through the jungle, guns drawn looking for Onoda, Kozuka, and Shimada. From a distance, it looked like Yoichi Akatsu was leading the soldiers.

He was pointing out all of their campsites. Onoda and his men withdrew, and they evaded capture. Now the searches for the men were becoming more frequent. Akatsu had gone back to Japan and talked to just about everybody, about what was going on at Lubong. The search parties were much bigger now, too. Sometimes there were 50 to 100 people looking for Onoda and his men. Oh, my God.

Plains circled above. Loud speakers blared. Did they get their mothers? This is your mother. Well, that's a-tito. That's my next idea, Norm. You're laughing, but that's my next idea. Get everybody's mom on the horn and have...

Young man, if you don't come down from this mountain right now... In 72 hours, and he's like, I know that's not my mom! Oh, man, I should have ever called my mom a bitch all those years ago. Now my mom's working for the enemy. Now she's working for the Americans. So, yeah, all these people are looking for them. But Onoda and his men, they knew the terrain very well now. Yeah, they knew it too well.

So they were just moving around all over the place. And when anyone got too close, they just shot at them. But, you know, by far the most common tactic to get Onoda to surrender were those leaflets. Plains just kept dropping leaflets. And they got more and more convincing. One time, the leaflets contained letters and photos from each man's family. Okay, yes. Onodah found a letter from his older brother, Toshio.

Toshio wrote that he wasn't in the army anymore because the war was over. Their parents were alive and doing well, and he pleaded that Hito give himself up. Please come home. Onoda was shocked by the letter. It seemed pretty convincing. Kozuka's leaflet contained a photo of his entire family, standing in front of what appeared to be a brand new home. And he brushed it off as a fake. He said, that's not our house.

In reality, Kozuka's family's house had been destroyed during the war by one of the many American bombing runs. So his family had built a new home after the war ended. Why hadn't they explained that? Okay. You know, maybe in the moment it's just not something you think about. You think, oh, well, he'll see this, he'll get this photo of us. Right. You don't know what's going to look sketchy.

Well, also, I don't know. Was it a shot of the entire house? Was it just like a porch? And he's like, that's not my porch. That's not my house. And, you know, when you're taking the photo and you send it, maybe that's not something you think about. Right. that like this guy is going to question everything.

Yeah, you don't think of him as so paranoid. Right, right. You're thinking, oh, he just needs to know that everything's good. Exactly. But by far, the most powerful leaflet was reserved for Corporal Shoichi Shimada. Because inside was a photo of his wife and his kids, including a newborn. And Shimada didn't have to wonder about the gender anymore. it was a baby girl.

Well, it couldn't have been a newborn, right? Haven't they been out there for like four years? Yeah, I guess it was a toddler. Shimada's eyes welled with tears as he stared at the photo in silence. But despite those letters and photos, Hido Onoda was still not convinced. He said, quote, The Yankees have outdone themselves this time. No.

At this point in my research, Kristen. I began questioning Hido Onoda. Okay, I've got a theory too. Okay, I'm going to go over mine. All right. How could you look at those letters and photos and still think this was a trick of the enemy? Why would they spend all of these resources for three soldiers on the Lou Bong? That is an excellent point.

Why would the enemy give that much of a fuck about you? Right. Now, I can see your family doing this. Of course. But the American Army. Hopefully your country, yeah. Yeah. But the American Army?

Hell no. No. So tell me your thoughts. You said you had a theory too. Okay. And this sucks. But I think we've all been there where we have done or said something. We stuck to our guns.

Everybody said we were wrong. But we were like, nope, I'm sticking to it. And at a certain point, it doesn't matter how good the argument on the other side is. It would be embarrassing. Doesn't want to admit he's wrong. Yes. And this guy... Denial.

I'm sorry. Wait, do you have a soundbite for that? Sounds like someone's struggling for power. Yes. Kind of, yeah. I, no, I really do think so. I think this is... It's too much for this guy.

The idea that he stayed out there for years... Mm-hmm. lived a miserable existence for no reason. It's almost easier to keep doing it than admit that. Right, right. Ugh. In his book, he tried to justify. Of course.

Yeah, this is why I didn't believe it. But, man, the more I read, the more I was like, dude, come on. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. We're not stupid here. Come on, buddy. We're a little stupid here.

Maybe a little stupid. But Kristen, believe it or not, that was not the end of it. The story of Onoda, Kozuka, and Shimada hiding out in Lubong, it was making headlines in Japan. Sure. And soon Japanese newspaper reporters started showing up in Lubong to get the scoop. They went out looking for these men. Oh my God. And when they couldn't find them, the reporters often left Japanese newspapers in the jungle for Onoda to find.

Yeah. And Onoda eventually found them. He had not read a newspaper in seven years. And there were stories about how Japan was working with the Philippine government to ensure Onoda and his men were not harmed, which was true. Onoda thought, well, this is clearly fake news written by the Americans. Why would Japan be working with the Philippines? The Philippines are on the American side. And the Americans are not peaceful.

They are barbarians. They will kill us all. We will not be safe if we're captured. Oh, God. Let me finish. Okay. And then Hido Onada noticed in the newspaper a schedule for upcoming radio programs, including news and entertainment. And Onoda found that odd because in his mind, well, the Japanese government was in charge of all the radio programming.

There was no schedule, and there certainly wasn't entertainment programming. So once again, Hito Onada dismissed it all. Another trick by the enemy. Now, what were you going to say? I mean, I guess I don't have a ton to say. I guess it's that thing. He's looking for reasons that this is wrong. He's looking only for reasons that this is a trick.

Right. This is just so frustrating. I know. It's super frustrating. And honestly, I mean, I know I started this series by saying, like, I saw a headline about this once and was like, I should click on that and then I never did. I always assumed that people just thought he was dead. I had no idea that people were actively looking for him and trying to convince him.

Yeah, I just thought maybe his dog tags got switched up or like some tragic thing where he got lost in the shuffle. It never would have occurred to me that all of these people were working to get him out of that jungle. And he was just like, nice try, bitches. So you thought it was kind of like a Home Alone 2 lost in New York thing where like he accidentally got on the wrong plane or something. That's exactly what I thought. Yeah.

No, I get it. We all do. We would all assume that, you know. He's like, oh, man, this happened in Home Alone too, lost in New York. Those newspapers did prove to Hito Onoda one thing, though. It was the 1950s and the world was moving on for Onoda. What? Keep going to, this is ridiculous.

What? Yeah, so... No, you can't say this is a trick of the enemy and then be like, oh, but some of this is true. No, that's exactly what he thought. Well, that's bullshit. Maybe he's just malnourished and he doesn't, you know, I... Yeah, I mean, anything dealing with Japan and foreign relations in the military, that was a trick of the enemy. But anything outside of that, it was probably real.

Okay. For Onoda and his men, time seemed to slow down on Lubong. But every now and then, they would observe unusual things that reminded them that there was a whole other world out there. One night, they spotted lights coming from the port of Tiliq. Electricity had finally come to the tiny town. Onoda hadn't seen electricity in six years. Another time, Onoda and his men saw planes flying over their heads at, incredible speeds.

But was it a plane? It was way too fast to be a plane. Maybe it was a new secret weapon that the Japanese military had come up with to take back the Philippines. Perhaps Japan is planning a counterattack. In reality, they were not planes.

They were American fighter jets, carrying out missions during the Korean War. Oh my God, a whole new war's happening. A whole new war. Don't you dare. Close your eyes. Drop that rifle. Because we're fighting in another war

Oh, beautiful. But when we're way out here. I speak for the people, that's enough. We're drinking beers. Sorry, folks. Sometimes the men would see massive ships sailing near the shores of Lubong, filled with people dancing to loud music. Oh my God, they were seeing cruise ships?

It was cruise ships. I bet that chocolate fountain looked delicious from afar. Your dad loved the chocolate fountain on the cruise ship. right? Oh my gosh. First of all, everyone, I've watched, I've now consumed too much true crime to ever go on a cruise ship again. That's a shame. Just because I think it's the perfect place to murder somebody. Anyhow. Push them off the edge? Yeah. And Norm, it's a jurisdiction thing. Oh, because you're in international waters. Yeah. Diplomatic immunity. Well, I don't know that that applies here. But when it's like, we don't know who's responsible for investigating this, no one wants to.

the paperwork. No one gives a hoot. I'm just some American who oopsies tipped overboard. Anyhow, yes. Once upon a time, my family went on a cruise and my sister was trying to get my dad to eat better, which on a cruise, that's not where you decide you're going to eat better. And so roughly 12 seconds after my sister had that conversation with him, he went over to the soft serve ice cream bar. The soft serve ice cream bar? Well, yeah, with all the toppings and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

The man made what can only be described as a fudge dragon. I mean, the plate could barely hold what he had done. Oh. It was a beautiful thing. Some people call big turds fudge dragons. Well, that is disgusting, Norm. So yeah, every now and then they would see something that would remind them that, Oh, there's a whole other world out there.

But, you know, those moments were kind of few and far between. Most days were kind of the same. When there wasn't anything to do, the men just kind of sat around. They gave each other haircuts. They repaired their worn out clothes. They talked about their past lives in Japan. Corporal Shimada was the most talkative. He especially loved talking about his hometown.

You know, every year, they had this huge festival with drums and singing and dancing. And Shimada was like, oh, that was always my first. favorite time of the year. I love that festival. And eventually those conversations led to his family. And one time he talked about his oldest daughter and he commented, I guess she must be around the age to like boys now. Shimada would then grow quiet and stare at the ground. No doubt wondering if he would ever see his family again. This is so sad. Yeah. The men kind of fell into a routine. You know, day to day life didn't change much. That is until June. of 1953. One day that month, Onoda, Kozuka, and Shimada were scouting the area when they spotted a group of about 16 fishermen. They were camping in the woods, and the men discussed quietly what they wanted to do,

and ultimately Onoda decided that they should attack the men. Those fishermen, no doubt, had tools and food that they could use. Plus, they were really close to their campsite, so they had to leave. So from the shadows, Onoda and his men fired on the fisherman. Oh, good grief. But to their surprise, the fishermen fired back. By now, the entire island of Lubong was on high alert for the infamous mountain devils. And so these fishermen were armed and ready. Shots were exchanged.

It's unclear if any of the fishermen got hit. But Corporal Shimada was shot in the leg. He fell to the ground in pain. Onoda quickly picked him up. and carried them to safety as Kozuka provided covering fire, and the men quickly retreated into the woods. Onoda laid Shimada down and looked at the wound. The bullet had entered the inner right side of Shimada's knee

and had gone completely through at an angle. Now, the good news was that the bullet was not lodged in his leg, so Onoda cleaned the wound with water, and then he sealed it with scraps of cow fat. Ew. Yeah. Shimada couldn't walk. And for the next 40 days, he just kind of laid around as Onoda and Kozuka nursed him back to health.

Every day, they cleaned the wound. They had to suck out congealed blood from it. Okay. And then reseal it with the cow fat. Oh. Now, luckily, it was the rainy season, so people weren't really out looking for them. So they were kind of able to stay in one place as Shimada recovered. And eventually he did recover.

It was kind of miraculous. He could even walk again. Really? Yeah. Now he was much slower and he had a noticeable limp, but still he was walking. Physically, Corporal Shimada had recovered, but mentally he had not. By the end of that year, Shimada had completely lost his spirit. The once talkative, cheerful soldier didn't speak anymore.

And when he did, it was about how much he missed his family. He spent a lot of time staring at that. photo of his wife and kids. He realizes that he was now almost 40 years old. He had gray hairs. He hadn't seen his family since 1943, more than 10 years ago. Life was passing him by, and here he was on this island, still fighting a war, but he kept going. The following year on May 7, 1954, Onoda and the men decided to set up camp near the shoreline. The weather was nice and there is a huge crop of jackfruit You know jackfruit?

Yeah. You see it a lot as a meat substitute. Yeah. Yeah, because it has like a meat-like texture, I guess. Onada was like, ooh, that's some good eating. Let's go get some jackfruit. But their plans were soon interrupted when they spotted a Philippine Army search party nearby.

The men discussed their options. Kosuka was adamant. Let's just get out of here. Let's go back into the mountains. Onoda agreed, but maybe they didn't have to go all the way up the mountains. Maybe they just had to go to like the base of the mountain. You know, it was way less elevation and, you know, Shimada's legs hurt, so it would be easier for him too. But then Shimada spoke and he said he wanted to stay and fight.

He said, look, I can't really move that well. You know, I'm a great shot. Let's just shoot these guys and we'll probably scare them off. Kozuka was furious. He said, we'd be crazy to stay here. There are a lot of soldiers in that search party. It's not like we have unlimited ammo, but Shimada wouldn't budge.

He was staying. Onoda and Kozuka finally relented. So, the men waited. And eventually those Filipino army soldiers, they got close. And from the brush, Onoda opened fire. He hit one man who yelled out. And soon shots were ringing out in every direction. Onada and Kozuka quickly took cover.

But where was Corporal Shimada? He was standing by a tree, aiming his rifle at the soldiers. But Onoda noticed that he wasn't firing. He was just staring at them. He looked like he was lost and thought. Onodah recalled that under normal circumstances, he would have just yelled at Shimada to get down. But he was so perplexed by what Corporal Shimada was doing, he couldn't find the words. And then in a flash, he collapsed to the ground.

A bullet had struck Shimada between the eyes. eyebrows, killing him instantly. Onoda and Kozuka were in danger. He was too dangerous to grab Shimada's body, so the two men scrambled back up into the mountains. And it was a costly retreat. They had to abandon many of their tools, food, and ammunition. And now, Corporal Shoichi Shimada was dead. In my opinion, based on his actions, I think Shimada wanted to die.

Yeah. It was just a suicidal thing. Yeah, he did. But Hido Onoda blamed himself. He was distraught. Kozuka had to snap him out of it. He yelled. It was Shimada who wanted to stay there in the first place.

But Onoda never got over it. A few months later, when it was safe, Hido Onoda returned to the spot where Shimada died. And there, he prayed. And then for the first time since he arrived on Lubong, he cried. The death of Corporal Shoichi Shimada made news in Japan. For his family, it was a sad ending. But the news also brought confirmation that Hiro Onoda and Kinchichi Kozuka were alive.

From there, the Japanese government renewed search interest in the men. Oh my God. They tried everything they could to convince Hiro Onoda and Kinsichi Kozuka to surrender. Loudspeakers blared messages of Onoda, Kozuka, the war has ended. They dropped more leaflets, more photos, more letters. They left Japanese flags in the jungle with family signatures written all over them. They left more newspapers and magazines. And they contained articles about Onoda and Kozuka,

about how they were hiding out in Lubong years after the war ended. And Hiro Onoda read them all. And he concluded that it was all secret code from the Imperial Japanese Army. They were trying to communicate with them. They were saying, hang on just a little longer. We haven't forgotten about you. How did he come to that conclusion? If you circle the third letter here and the fourth letter here and I mean, it had to be something like that, right?

He's just making his own logic. The more I read, the more I was like, this just makes no sense. why he would still believe this. Yeah. I think he read those articles about like, oh, these guys are on Lubong. To him, it was a message of like, we know you're there and we're coming.

I know. Okay. And then Onoda read articles about how Japan was a democracy now and that it seemed to be doing pretty well. Did they ally themselves with another country or something? And furthermore, hey, what's with all these newspapers and magazines? You know, if the war was truly over, if Japan had lost the war, there wouldn't be any Japanese newspapers or magazines. Because in Hiro Onoda's mind, everyone in Japan would be dead.

Now, why did he think that? Near the end of World War II, the Japanese government had a protocol called Ichioku Gyokusai, which meant 100 million souls dying for honor. The entire Japanese population would die. before surrendering to the enemy. Oh my. Okay. So to Hiro Onoda, these newspapers and magazines existing were just proof that the war wasn't over for Japan.

What do you think about that? I am thinking about, oh gosh. On the one hand, I'm about an unfair comparison. because I do think, oh, whatever, I'm just going to say it. Every company has at least one dude like this. Who's like bought into the company and like, we'll do anything for the company, we'll never quit,

we'll work overtime. I mean, just fully buys in to all the corporate bullshit. Yeah. It never even occurs to them that, hey, maybe the corporation's just saying stuff. Maybe they're just simply a corporation. And in this case, maybe the country's just saying stuff. It's wartime, riling people up.

The tough thing with this, though, is you have to remember that, like, his whole life, he had kind of known this. He kind of grew up in this environment and was taught this his whole life. But hold on. Didn't all the Japanese soldiers live in that type of culture? Yeah. Then why didn't everybody do this? Well, maybe as an intelligence officer. Did all the intelligence officers do this?

Well, no. I have, that's, I don't know, that's very general question. I'm saying this is kind of proving my point. There's always one guy. There's always a handful of guys who just, I mean, they lose sight of it. Yeah. Yeah, he was all in. And he had a comrade in Kozuka who was right there with him.

They kind of fed off each. other, I think, with... Oh, you'd have to. Oh, yeah, I don't believe this. I don't believe this. I don't believe this. So Onoda and Kozuka stood their ground. They were not going to surrender.

But that decision would soon be put to the test. In 1959, the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare conducted the largest search party ever for Hirohonoda and Kinsichi Kozuka. And they pulled out all the stops, Kristen. Okay. They played songs. from the 1940s over the loudspeaker. They called out their names, Onuda, Kozuka, come out.

We are Japanese. We are here to bring you home. And in the search party, we're family members. Yes, finally. Kozuka's little brother was there to look for him. Hito's older brother, Toshio, was there. And the search lasted for months from May to November. But Onoda and Kozuka remained hidden. refusing to come out.

It was frustrating because the search party knew that they were alive. They had found evidence of their campsites, but they just refused to come out. Near the end of the search, Toshio made one final plea in the jungles of Lubong. Hito, come out. This is your brother, Toshio. This is our last day here. Please come out where we can see you. He just wanted to look at him.

Yeah. Unbeknownst to Toshio, Onoda was nearby. He was hiding, listening, watching. Onoda thought, well, the man speaking certainly sounds like my brother, Toshio, even kind of looks like him. But Onoda just wasn't really sure. Desperate, Toshio began singing. He sang a school song from their childhood, one that only he and Onoda would know and recognize. Sure enough, Onoda knew the children.

tune. As the song neared the end and Toshio saw no sign of his brother, he got really emotional. His voice cracked up. And that kind of threw everything off. Onada said that the voice cracking up led him to believe it was an impersonator. No, it didn't. And so he ran off into the jungle. No, no. I think he knew it was his brother. He did. He did. I think at a certain point, you've been so isolated that it's scary to come out. Exactly. And it becomes. embarrassing. Yep. You know, I've already mentioned the thing of once you've dug your heels in, it can be hard

to admit I was wrong. But there's also, I think, a thing of all of this fuss has been made over me. Right. And it's embarrassing now. Yeah. My family's here looking for me now. Newspapers have written about this. They've been trying for years to get me out of here.

And I've been wrong this whole time. All of these tactics. the letters, the photos, the signed flags, the newspapers, the magazines, family members doing karaoke in the jungle. No, you know. It seems like overwhelming evidence that, hey, the war is over. You don't have to hide anymore. Come out.

It's safe. It is overwhelming evidence. And honestly, I'm surprised that it took this long for family members to come do this. I think many presumed he was dead. Okay. And then the news reports of Shimada dying also confirmed there were two other guys and they're like, oh, and that's why renewed interest happened in searching for them. Hito Onoda later admitted that he knows it sounds ridiculous that they didn't believe the war was over. But he said that as an intelligence officer, he was trained to look out for fake messages.

He was taught to be overly cautious. trust was very hard for him. Still, I have doubts. If the war was still going on, wouldn't Hido Onoda have read reports of battles in those newspapers and magazines? I think it's entirely possible that Hido Onoda knew the war was over. Maybe he couldn't accept the fact that Japan had lost. Maybe he couldn't admit to himself or his comrades that he had been wrong.

He was truly living in his own little reality. He later wrote about his state of mind, writing, quote, I was completely alone. It seemed even more real than before. That is why I was psychologically unable to respond, even when I saw members of my family and heard them calling to me. Not until I returned to Japan and looked out the window of my hotel at the streets of Tokyo, did I understand that my world was no more than a family.

figment of my imagination. Wow. Kristen, thoughts? I don't know that I have any thoughts on that specifically. But right now I'm thinking about the passage of time. Mm-hmm. And he was such an ambitious guy. It was either I'm going to become a rich businessman or I'm going to, you know, rise

through the ranks of the military. Yeah. And I'm thinking of the guy who had the family. What was his name? Shimada. Yeah, Shimada. I'm thinking about him and his decision, in my view, to die by suicide, essentially. Mm-hmm.

And I wonder if for him, it was just too sad to accept that I'm in my 40s now. So much time has passed. I cannot reenter the world. Yeah. That world I was a part of that I long for, it's gone. And. And maybe how hard it would be for my family. if I came back.

Yeah, I mean, I think you lie to yourself in this, you know, they'd been in this state of paranoia for years. Yeah. Not even staying in one place because they're constantly feeling like they're under attack. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, I think you would lie to yourself, like, well, my family has moved on without me. Right. And I wonder about Hiro Onida if he kind of thought about, like, well, if the war really did end.

when they say it ended, then I have not accomplished anything. This was all for nothing. Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm in my mid-30s, and I've accomplished nothing. I don't want to live that way. And so I'm going to keep living in this fantasy. Right, where I'm like.

Important. And doing something. Right. For Japan. Yeah. Excellent thought, Kristen. Thank you. I have so many good thoughts.

No, that was very good. That massive search party left Lubong in November of 1959. The next month, the Japanese Ministry of Health and Warfare officially declared Hiro Onoda and Kinsichi Kozuka dead. But Hiro Onoda's family refused to believe it. His mother remembered what Hido had told her all those years ago. It's possible that I may be reported dead when I'm not. If you're told I've been killed, don't think.

too much about it because I may well show up again after a few years. Well, and the government didn't, I assume, the government didn't tell the families, we found their bodies or we killed them. I imagine they just said something like they are presumed dead. We've spent so much time. It's just kind of impossible that they would still be alive. Exactly. And so, yeah, you would think, well, maybe.

We can't. We can't find them. They are presumed dead officially by the government. Yeah. So the Onoda family held on to hope that Hiro was still alive. After 1959, most people had given up trying to find Hiro Onoda in Kinchichi Kozuka. And so the men lived on in the jungles and mountains of Lubong. They made the best of their situation.

Onoda said that the most difficult thing to deal with was ants. There were so many ants. And they got everywhere. Kind of like sand. Ugh. And these weren't those cute little cuddly ants, you know, Kristen? I have never cuddled an ant in my life. You're missing out.

These ants liked to bite. Onoda said one time an ant stung him on his eardrum while he was sleeping. Oh, no, no. Said it was the most painful thing he'd ever felt. I'm sure. The weather was also difficult. It affected literally everything they did, especially the rain. Oh, my God, the rain.

For four months every year. It rained. almost every day. Onoda's clothes rotted from all the rain. So they were always sewing patches on their uniform. And the men just hung out

in their little makeshift huts to stay dry. But during the 1960s, Onoda and Kozuka discovered something that changed the rainy season for them. Vinyl plastic!

Where'd they find that? They stole it from some civilians. Oh, well, yeah, you'd have to. And they found it incredibly helpful in keeping their stuff dry. You know, it's funny, over the years, the quality of life for people living in Lubong improved. And so, in turn, life improved for Hito Onoda and Kinsichi Kozuka. Yeah, better stuff to steal.

This all makes sense. When it wasn't raining, it was hot. It was so, so hot. It was usually 100 degrees. Oh, my God. Onoda recalled, quote, if you have to walk 50 yards to get wood for the fire, you feel as though you were in a hot spring bath. January was the coolest month of the year, but even then,

temperatures could reach 85 degrees. For food, the men expanded their palate. They came up with recipes. One of them was sliced banana, boiled in coconut milk, and dried meat. Onida said it tasted like overcooked sweet potatoes. I can see that. I saw coconut milk, and I was like, ooh, sounds kind of good, actually. They threw meat with the meat.

I'll be honest, I'm like bananas, coconut milk, okay. Got to get a little protein in there. Throw a maraschino cherry on top? What else are we doing here? We're making pinocaladas. Yeah, making pinocados. In the jungles of Lubong. But then he's throwing water buffalo ass into it.

I don't know. Yeah. Speaking of water buffalo, let's talk about meat. Beef was their go-to meat. Now, they had to steal it from farmers, but one cow could provide 250 slices of smells. smoked beef, and it fed the men for four months. But, you know, they tried some other meats, too, Kristen. One time they tried horse. Okay. Onoda said it smelled horrible and it didn't taste very good.

What did it smell like? He didn't say. Okay. It just smelled bad. Well, all right. I've color me curious. Okay. Water buffalo provided a ton of meat, but it just didn't taste very good. The men's favorite food was rice. But again, they had to steal rice. to get it. They were also always happy when they were able to steal salt, which Onoda called Magic Medicine. It made everything taste so much better. It's true. Take note, white folks. Salt! Now, if they renamed Salt Magic Medicine in the grocery store, what do you think? More people might try it? I feel like plenty of people try salt all the time. I don't think salt needs any help. Okay, you're right. Salt's a staple, right? Yes. Now, luckily,

The most important thing, water, that was not an issue. Lubong was filled with streams of clear water that you could see all the way down to the bottom. Onoda and Kozuka always boiled their water before drinking it. And Kristen, I'm sure you're dying to know about their bathroom habits. Well, they wiped their booty holes with palm tree leaves. I did not ask, but I am intrigued. Mm-hmm. I knew you would be.

And they always buried their turds to hide the evidence and the smell. Absolutely no one asked. Well, you know, this is my episode and I'm telling you. Fair enough. Fair enough. Surprisingly, the men rarely got sick. Which, you know, maybe surprisingly isn't the right word. When you're isolated and alone, you're not exposed to any like foreign journeys. I'd say it's very surprising because they're in these, they're constantly wet.

Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, I would say the conditions. I think it's more about they were very young men. relatively, yeah. Well, yeah, when this started for sure. And their body's probably acclimated. Mm-hmm. You know, they did try to establish a sense of normalcy.

So, like, they would bathe semi-regularly and they wash their clothes. They kept a calendar. They celebrated holidays and birthdays. Which, to me, yeah, that's part of the charade. The make-believe. We are in the military. We're not just stuck here. We're not doing nothing.

We are in the military. We are doing things. So of course we're going to shower. Of course we're going to add elements of normal life to this. Yeah, get haircuts. Yeah. The longer Onoda and Kozuka were out there, the easier it got. Onoda commented, life in the jungle was never easy,

but so far as food, clothing, and utensils were concerned, it was far easier in the later years than in the first five or ten. Oh my God, first five or ten. That is the most depressing thing. I know. Now, make no mistake, this was not like Swiss family Robinson lifestyle. Onoda and Kozuka still believed they were at war. And so they regularly attacked and terrorized people living on Lubong.

And they did it in many ways. They would verbally threaten and intimidate people, yelling out, Don't think you're safe because there's only two of us. They interrupted farming by burning crops and rice harvest piles or shooting cattle. They kidnapped people and interrogated them for information. They shot at construction crews building radio towers in the mountains. When he was later asked why they attacked villagers. Onoda said they believe the villagers were the enemy.

He said, quote, Since the islanders were aiding the enemy task forces that came to look for us, we considered them enemies too. Did they rape any women? Never read anything about that in my research. I guess it would always be his word, huh? Mm-hmm. Okay.

Yeah, sadly, a lot of the stories from the people of Lubong have mostly been forgotten. Would not shock me, honestly. It would shock me if it didn't happen. Allegedly. I'm just saying his story is coming from him. Yep. And kidnapping villagers, doing terrible things, I don't know.

I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me either, honestly. Onada said their attacks on civilians was to, quote, enlarge the territory under our control and keep out all enemy trespassers. The men certainly earned their nickname of mountain devils. Civilians on Lubong lived in fear. Family members warned each other, don't wander to. far from the farmer, you'll be shot. One farmer, Fernando Poblete, recalled finding a man dead in his field. His throat had been cut. Another time, they found a man laying in the river, shot in the legs.

He had been running away from Onoda and Kozuka. Oh, God. Poblete said, quote, Onoda is the cause of our misery. And, Kristen, you brought up an excellent point about generational trauma from these experiences. And you're spot on. Onoda and Kozuka's looting and destruction and murder set Lubong civilians back. Many had to forego their education to keep the family farm running. And that had lasting effects on future generations. Just to clarify for any confused listeners, I brought that point up in episode one. She did. And what could they do? Their only option was to call the police. And by the time the police arrived, Onida and Kozuka were already gone. Well, literal,

Church parties couldn't find these guys. Yeah. This would absolutely be... I don't even have the words for it. It's decades of ongoing terrorism on a very small island. Yeah. You would never feel safe. Well, and from professional soldiers.

Right. These guys were trained to kill. And they have nothing to lose. Nothing. And what, you're trying to raise a family in that setting? You're trying to live your life? Right. Yeah.

It's impossible. Mm-hmm. Eventually, the police on Lubong implemented a new policy. If they spotted those Japanese soldiers, shoot them on site. Hell yes. Enough was enough. Yes. Meanwhile, Onoda and Kozuka continued to steal from villagers and attack villagers.

In 1965, they found some men working at a remote cabin. They fired a few shots and the men ran off. inside the cabin, Onoda and Kozuka found a bunch of stuff. Socks, trousers, shirts, and a radio. It even had spare batteries. Oh, I bet they're going to put those batteries in and find out that the enemy's trying to trick them through the radio. I bet they're going to turn on the radio and they're going to hear bananas and pajamas are coming down the stairs. Why would they hear that?

And they're going to be like, what the hell is this? And they're going to turn it off. and that's going to be sad because they're going to miss out on a great program. The two men were overjoyed to find the radio. You know, maybe they could pick up secret signals from the Imperial Japanese Army.

Back at camp, the two men huddled around the radio. They turned the volume down to stay quiet. And they listen to news programs. They listen to music. They listen to sports. Okay, hold on, hold on. I have discovered the way to get this guy out. How?

I think. and of course they couldn't have known how nutty he'd gotten over the years but you kind of have to assume that he's gotten a little nutty so you lean into it and you instead of leaving these pamphlets

that say things like hey great news the war is over you can come out now you instead leave messages that do have codes in them. Codes that are fairly easy to break, but so you have coded messages and you say something like,

great job, buddy, the war is definitely on. You're not an idiot. Keep going, except we've got a special mission for you. We're going to need you at this location, at this time, on this day, you know. Get on this cruise ship. Yes. Order the fudge dragon. Get on the boat, the banana boat.

Yeah. But I, okay, don't you think that's the only way that it would happen? I mean, clearly they eventually got the guy out, so I don't know what they did. But to me, that's the way you'd have to do it, is to make him think that he's not wrong and have a code in some message that looks like it's something else, have him feel like a genius for figuring it out when it really is just pig Latin or something. I don't know. I'm not a cryptologist.

Well, here's the other thing. No one knew why he wasn't surrendering or why he wasn't coming out of hiding. Okay, but no, that can't be true. What about the little fella? The little fella was with them for several years. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Good point.

Well, you'll find out how they get him out eventually because... Norm, am I kind of right? Kind of. Ha! You're kind of right. Ding! Do we have a sound effect for me being right? There we go.

Or how about this? Because it so rarely happens. Oh. Oh, wow. Well, boy, what a mix of emotions. I do love that soundbite, but I hate the insult. To be fair, I did start out talking in this episode about how I think this guy's kind of cool. And now I think he can kick rocks.

Because of all the horrible things he did. Yeah. Yeah. And also, I think he's kind of... Kind of what? I mean, I hate to say it, but I think he's kind of dumb now. And I realize that's rude. I also called him a maybe rapist.

And that's, you know, much ruder, obviously. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, that's just, uh... What? No, it's a fair thing to assume when they're committing all these other horrible crimes. And they feel justified. Right. You know what?

that's another reason to stay in the woods. You've done horrible things. If you accept this to be true, if you accept that the war has ended, then you have to face the fact that you've done horrible things to innocent civilians. Mm-hmm. That would be really hard to face.

Are you saying he feared being, like, put on trial? No, not necessarily put on trial. I'm thinking more internally. You just had to live with it. Yeah. And you know, you might fear some consequences, sure. But then it's about more than just pride and I really believe this. But it's it becomes not, oh, I'm doing something that I have justified because we're at war and these people are helping the enemy.

but instead I did horrible things to innocent civilians when we were absolutely not at war yeah yeah another fair take

this episode's really getting you thinking Kristen true maybe these evening recordings are doing wonders for you no I hate them

you like an early morning recording oh I hate that boy I'm a picky little thing aren't I yeah when are we recording afternoon okay p.m.

Okay. So anyway, Onida and Kozaka found this radio. They're listening to it. They're loving it. Kozika especially loved the horse races. You like to pick the winners when he listened. And in the news, the men learned some incredible things. Japan had hosted the 1964

Summer Olympics. Tokyo now had a high-speed bullet train system. That must mean Japan is doing quite well in the war. Oh, my God. But, you know, any news related to foreign relations or military affairs as American propaganda. How? They are experts in spreading fake news.

Oh my God. How are the Olympics real? How is the bullet train real? It's real. But everything about foreign relations is fake. I mean, it's almost like he was a conspiracy theorist. Yes. That's kind of like when I was reading his book, I was like, this guy sounds like,

conspiracy theorist. And it's not as simple as like, I didn't know the war was over. It was like, you're getting so much evidence thrown at you. And you're just like, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny. Yes. It drove me nuts reading this.

Believe it or not, Onoda decided that the radio was way too distracting. And so they stopped using it. He's a cult leader now. He's a cult leader. That's what I thought. I was like he doesn't want. Yeah.

Kozuka to get convinced. Mm-hmm. Yep. That's exactly what I thought. Christine. Yeah. Hiro Onoda and Kinsichi Kozuka were uncommonly alone. They lived in isolation, cut off from the world. So naturally, they had a special bond. I mean, you'd have to. This is your family now. Yeah. Kozuka respected Onoda's judgment and leadership. Onoda respected Kozuka's spirit and bravery. But their relationship wasn't all sunshine and rainbows. The men sometimes bickered and fought, and Kozuka's loyalty and respect for Onoda were tested.

Take that again. I just bit my tongue. I could see it. I saw it happen. Are you okay? Yep. We've had a lot of injuries on an old-timey podcast today.

Folks, I don't mean to drag you down with a sad, true tale. Oh, yeah, you burned yourself. I burned the mess out of my neck with a curling iron. What am I 16 years old? That's the last time I did that. Anyway, here, for the folks on the video version,

send thoughts and prayers, please. This is the sacrifice. This is what we put. our bodies through to record a podcast for you all. In a way, we are at war with our dumb self. Can you see the bird? Yeah, it's right. It'd be hilarious if the folks on the video version were like,

we don't even see it, you dramatic, dramatic ladies. Joe, you've got the color filters in Adobe Premiere. Go ahead and make Kristen's neck just so red. Could you Photoshop some like, just Photoshop my head fully off? Yeah, and put some tears in my eyes as well. Want some real motion. Sure, sure. So yeah, Kozuka's loyalty and respect for Onoda were tested.

So one time, Hido Onada was building a new hut with some metal roofing that they found on a farm. And it was going to be a sweet hut, Kristen. That metal roof would make it very waterproof for the rainy season. But it was tough because that metal roof weighed a lot. So Onada struggled to find a vine that could support the weight of the roof. Eventually, he found one that was good enough. Okay. You know, hopefully it would hold up.

Kozuka looked at the structure and he scoffed. He remarked, you shouldn't do things halfway. Oh. You need a stronger vine than that. Why didn't you just look until you found one? Oh, no. Oh, no. This couple is 15 years into their marriage.

They know too much about each other. It's not about the vine. There's something else. Hido Onida was like, hey man, I'm tired and, you know, that vine's fine for now. Kozuka silently walked off. He returned a few hours later, carrying a strong vine. Oh, my God. And then he installed it.

Oh, no. Oh, shit. Hito Onoda was furious. He could not believe the insubordination, the disrespect. It was almost like what they were doing out there. It wasn't even real. The two men gave each other the silent treatment. And then finally, later that evening, Kozuka blurted out.

From now on, I'll lead the way. Oh, shit. Onida snapped back. Hey, I outrank you. I'm responsible for the war on this island. And, you know, the reality is, I don't even need you to carry out the mission. Oh, honey. Kozuka got furious.

He said, keep it to yourself. I'm fed up with your sermons. Yeah, and you would be. Onada replied, I'm not preaching. I'm stating facts. Oh, my God. Oh, I hate that line. That's so obnoxious.

Oh, that is so obnoxious. Well, that just set Kozuka off. He picked up rocks and started pelting Onoda with him. Are you? Okay. I was not expecting that. Kozuka lost it. He yelled, I'm not an idiot.

I know who's on my side and who isn't. You didn't listen to me, so you're not on my side. You are an enemy. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Do not shoot your only friend in the world. Those long, hard years of living in isolation were taking a toll on the men. They went back and forth for a while, bickering, until eventually they just stared.

at each other in silence. And then finally, Kozuka broke the silence. He said, Lieutenant, you lead the way. And with that, the fight was over. Onoda said that those moments were rare, but every time it happened,

he felt closer to Kinsichi Kozuka. We call that a trauma bond, dude. Let's take a vacation. Let's just get out of here. Let's get on that cruise ship. Next cruise ship we find. We're swimming out to it. Let's go.

It was now 1970. Dear God! Second Lieutenant Hiro Onoda was 48 years old. No. Oh my. Private First Class Kinchichi Kozuka was 49 years old. Hold on. They have spent more of their lives in that jungle fighting a fake war. Yes. Then they had leading up to it.

Yes. It's all they know. More than half their life was on Lubong. Oh my. Their war continued on, and it would continue on until the Imperial Japanese Army came back to LeBong to rescue them. Onodah and Kozuka were in this together. That is, until they weren't. On October 19th, 1972, the two men came down from the mountains to wreak havoc.

It was rice harvesting season, and they wanted to burn some rice piles. As they approached a farm, they fired warning shots, scathing. a few civilians. And then they started setting fire to the piles. But unbeknownst to them, it was a trap. Good. I'm so glad someone's trapping these fuckers. The Lubong police were waiting. Shots rang out.

A bullet ripped through Kozuka's body. Onoda quickly hit the deck. Kozuka sobbed. It's my chest. Onoda looked over to see blood and foam spewing from Kozuka's mouth. And he fell forward. to the ground. Onoda yelled out to him, but he didn't respond. Kinsichi Kozuka was dead. Onada had no time to grieve. He ran. He ran as fast as he could, down into the valley and through

the thick jungle, back into hiding, just like he had done for the past 25 years. And as he ran, he screamed in anger at the death of his only friend. He shouted, I'll get them for this. I'll kill them all. on the next episode of an old time you podcast. Oh my gosh. And the finale of this series. Hido Onodaz's 30-year war ends in an unlikely way. Norm, give us a hint. No, I'm not giving you a hint.

Okay. Stay tuned. We know they dropped a box of, was it Cheerios back in the day that would sometimes have the puzzles on the back? I mean, a lot of cereals had puzzles on the back. What he needs is the encrypted. Oh, like a decoder ring? Rich chocolatey oval teen. Listen, Norm, I've decided this guy was not quite as sharp as they originally thought.

So, yeah, we're going to drop some Cheerios boxes. Okay. First of all, he'll have a delicious snack. He's going to love it. It tastes way better than Water Buffalo, I'm guessing. I came up with a great little jingle for Honeynut Cheerios. You did? Yeah.

Let's hear it. Nobody can say no to the motherfucking taste of Honeynut Cheerios. Oh, that's. Okay, we're going to need the radio edit, Norm. It's a family-friendly series. Nobody can say no to the mother fudging taste of honeynut TV. Well, now I want fudge in them. Oh, Norm, this is a great series.

Thanks. I, boy, this episode had a lot of stuff that I wasn't expecting. What were you not expecting? I was not, well, I've already said it. I guess I wasn't expecting people to be actively looking for him. All right, all the effort to get him. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's an assumption that, like, he was just, like, in a cave for 25 years and he was like, oh, where am I? The war's over? But no, he, like, people were actively looking for him, like, found evidence of him. He was attacking villagers. I mean, it was a whole thing. Well, and the dynamics of his group. Yeah. That's fascinating to me.

Yes, that's what interested me the most were the other people in his group. Because, again, my assumption was he was a lot of. alone for 30 years or whatever, but no, he was with people most of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God. I bet you're wondering how he gets rescued. I am. It's pretty interesting.

Okay, hang on. I want to make some guesses. Oh, gosh. Okay. Okay. So you've said a little code would do it. Okay, I've come up with something. What's that?

It's a trap, but I'm guessing this is the type of fella. Who needs someone to lead. He needs to be leading someone. So what if he feels like he can recruit someone? Am I on to something? Recruit someone for what? To be part of his army of one. He wants to make it an army of two.

I'm way off, aren't I? Yeah, that's not what happened. Okay, well, I'll stop with this. Yeah. You'll just have to listen to part three. I suppose I will. Mm-hmm. Christine, you got any post-episode shenanigans for us?

I do, actually. Some crazy stuff. What do you got? Norm, I just wanted to read a couple reviews. Oh, we haven't done this in a while. We haven't done it a while. And just so you all know, we are a small, independent podcast. Sexy.

Oh, don't you dare forget it. Well, you did. I did, which is terrible, unforgivable. But if you will forgive us, we'd appreciate it. it. And if you would give us a five-star rating, we would appreciate that too in a nice little review. It really helps us out. It really does. And now I would like to read to you a really upsetting review. Oh, boy. Okay. It is five stars. Well, that's not upsetting. Sure. Username is M. Just Stool. Okay.

Title of the review is Kristen and Norm are hilarious. This is sounding great so far. Sounding wonderful. The body of the review reads, Best coverage of dinner party ever. Dinner party is an unfortunate typo. Is it too soon to laugh at that unfortunate typo? No, no, it's not. I found it really funny.

Also very offensive. Dinner party, how dare you? Mm, just stool. But thank you for your review. know what you meant you know in bowling in my bowling league i told another bowler that we were covering the donner party uh-huh and she said oh growing up my family always told the joke of uh going to a restaurant and saying donner party of 12 or something oh yeah and i was like ooh kind of dark kind of dark and then she proceeded to kick my ass in bowling wow that's that's even worse that's even worse

and you know all of these other reviews They didn't have any auto correct issues. So then it's just bragging if I read those out loud. But we do thank you all for your kind ratings and reviews. Yeah. Thank you so much. It is very, very helpful for us. We're climbing the charts, baby.

And also thank you to everyone who has told Norm that Raisinets are disgusting and should never be promoted on our podcast. Yeah, someone thought when you said that my candies match my name, they thought that was very funny. And I was like, what's so funny about that? It's the truest thing anyone's ever said. But raisinets aren't... Raisinets are an old man's candy.

Are they really? No young people are picking up raisinets. I have noticed Costco no longer sells chocolate-covered raisins. Yeah, because all the people buying them died off. Well, I want them, and I have not seen them in Costco for a long time, and I just need to know. Are they coming back? Like, is there a raisin shortage? No, there's no.

shortage is the shortage of interest norm. Lack of interest? You were the only one buying those. They're so good. Folks, can you imagine owning a tub, like a Costco tub of chocolate covered raisins? That was Norm's life for a while. Just constantly eating disgusting chocolate covered raisins. Playing video games snacking on my Costco chocolate covered raisins.

It was so good. If anyone wants to send me chocolate covered raisins, we would. have a P.O. box. Those won't hold up in the mail. Yeah, yeah, they will. No, no. Well, you know what, whatever. It's not like it's going to ruin the taste.

Do whatever you want, Norm. Should we wrap this up? Let's wrap it up. Norm, you know what they say about history hoes. We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from the book, No Surrender, My 30-year War by Hiro-O-Noda.

In the BBC article, Onoda, the man who hid in the jungle for 30 years. And other sources, check the show notes. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, R slash old-timey podcast.

We got a request for a Jack the Ripper series. And I thought, oh, that'd be, that'd be, that'd be, pretty good. I've been thinking about that. Okay. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. She is the burned but beautiful Kristen Pitts-Karuso.

And I go by Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio. Bye-bye.