An Old Timey Podcast - 72: Last Man Standing: Hiroo Onoda Finally Surrenders (Part 3)

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

It took countless efforts and nearly three decades to convince Second Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda that World War II was over. When those efforts finally paid off, Hiroo Onoda went home to Japan. He received a hero’s welcome. But did he deserve it? Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Norm pulled from: Allyra Crowdfunding. “Donation Page by Searching For Onoda.” https://searchingforonodadoc.allyrafundraising.com/campaigns/9769. “Bushido and Japanese Atrocities in World War II.” Michael Fassbender, May 2, 2015. https://michaeltfassbender.com/nonfiction/the-world-wars/big-picture/bushido-and-japanese-atrocities-in-world-war-ii/. “Domitable Myth: Three Depictions of Japanese Holdout Soldier Hiroo Onoda | International Documentary Association.” May 17, 2023. https://www.documentary.org/online-feature/domitable-myth-three-depictions-japanese-holdout-soldier-hiroo-onoda. New York Times. “Hiroo Onoda, Soldier Who Hid in Jungle for Decades, Dies at 91” March 28, 2022. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/18/world/asia/hiroo-onoda-imperial-japanese-army-officer-dies-at-91.html. Onoda, Hiroo. No Surrender: My Thirty-Year War. Naval Institute Press, 1999. “Onoda: The Man Who Hid in the Jungle for 30 Years.” April 14, 2022. https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220413-onoda-the-man-who-hid-in-the-jungle-for-30-years. Sims, Watson. “You’re a Better Man, Hiroo.” Battle Creek Enquirer, March 17, 1974. The Record (New Jersey). “‘I Have Done My Best,’ Japanese Holdout Says.” March 11, 1974. Are you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts! Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye, you are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Norman Caruso. And I'm Kristen Caruso. And on this episode, it's the finale of my series on Hiro Onoda, the Japanese soldier who wouldn't surrender. Okay, Norm, I'm excited. Oh, and just a quick word to anyone who has the video version of this podcast. You know who you are. You're on Patreon, like a smart person would be.

we appear to be recording this in an interrogation room. Or from heaven. Do you think this is what heaven looks like? Well, it's very white down here. Your grandparents' basement is what heaven looks like. My God. Well, anyway, we are recording from Michigan. And Norm, I'm not even going to let you talk about your series yet.

I'm going to jump straight to the Patreon plug because I have something urgent to say. Okay. All right. Beep, beep, beep, did, do, you know, this is breaking news. Oh, wow. I don't know if you can help me out. Can you throw a sound bite in there? Oh, yeah, okay.

Breaking news. What do you got, Kristen? Listen, everyone, if you're driving, you might want to pull over because you're going to shed a tear. Okay. When we packed to come to Michigan, I knew we'd be here for a while, and I thought, you know what, I'm going to pack carefully and smartly, brilliantly. At one point in my packing, I looked at my jeans, and I thought to myself, I've got to figure out which pair of jeans. I'm taking up with me to Michigan. Guess what, listener?

I ended up taking zero because that's as far as the thought process went. I could have sworn I made a decision. I didn't make a decision. Now, you're asking yourself, why is this relevant to me? I'll tell you why. My husband's not allowing me to buy new jeans in Michigan.

He says, he says we have to use the money from new Patreon sign-ups to afford a new pair of trousers for me. It's true, and it's sad, and it's making you go over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. This is why you had people pull over on the highway. That's why they're pulled over.

They're crying now, but now they have a solution to this problem. They feel so bad for me. They're like, is she just porky pig in it? Basically. She might be in Michigan. It gets cold sometimes. They don't want that. They want to go to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast where they will get a monthly bonus episode.

They're going to love it. It's a video episode. Plus they can get ad-free episodes of the podcast, video episodes of every single episode of this podcast. They can get a card with our autographs. Oh, and a sticker. Where will you put it? It's none of my business. You also get monthly trivia, which is a good time.

And there's more. Mostly because I didn't list all the things. But also because when you're on Patreon, you get ad-free episodes of my old, rotting, decrepit podcast. Let's Go to Court. What could be better, my friend? Nothing. Patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

Very good, Kristen. Yeah, I think it's really messed up that you won't just let me go buy a new pair of jeans. Well, you know me. Norm said, this is how you'll learn, Kristen. Okay. We're not going there.

I sobbed. I sobbed. No. No. I just realized I have a zipper on my back pocket. Wow, bragging about your jeans. Zipped. I'm wearing shorts.

Let's be clear. I know. Zippered jeans would be kind of a weird look. A zippered back pocket on your jeans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Folks, we are up in Michigan. We are in my grandmother's basement recording an old-timey podcast.

It's incredible. Okay. I do think on social media this week, we need to put some photos of some of the treasures we have found in this condo. Yeah, we have found some interesting stuff. We found, may I tell the story of your grandfather's portrait? Oh, please do. Everyone. Norm's grandfather was a professor, a theater professor, evidently had a great impact on one of his students.

And as a gift, a gift, this student painted a portrait of Norm's grandfather. I think we all know what you're supposed to do when you receive a gift. You're supposed to say, thank you. And that's the end of it. Maybe, maybe, oh, I'm going to put it in my office. So just thank you, and that really should be it. No, Norm's grandfather was a little vain. Okay, safe to say, a little vain?

A lot of vain. A lot vain. And he didn't much care for the portrait. It was a little too accurate. And so he told the student to make several corrections to the portrait. Tightened up that jaw line quite a bit, I think. Yeah, you can see the hard brush strokes along the jawline. where they had to do some modifications.

It's quite a portrait. And at some point, we probably will decorate the studio. And I think that that portrait should have a prominent place. I'm thinking, yeah, you know, maybe behind me, kind of front and center. Watching over us. Right. From that tight, tight jaw line in the sky. Yes.

So anyway, that's where we are right now. Yeah. We are having a good time. We had to get all set up down here in the basement. But, hey, we are still on schedule. and now I'm ready to tell you about the finale of Hiro Onoda. But before we get into this episode, Kristen, let's recap the last episode. Previously on an old-timey podcast.

Wow. After the end of World War II, Japan. What? Sorry, I was making a joke like I still thought World War II was happening. It was a little soon for a joke. You've not even really started the episode. I was channeling my inner Hero Onita. Kristen, you're throwing me off.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. After the end of World War II, Japanese lieutenant Hiro Onoda hit out in the jungles and mountains of Lubong Island in the Philippines. But Onoda wasn't alone. There were three other men with him. First, there was Corporal Shoichi Shimada, an ancient man at 31 years old. Oh, disgusting! I'm 31 years old. Shimada was the oldest member of the group.

He had a wife and two children, and he was vital to the group's survival. Shimada knew how to live off the land. Then there was private first class Kinchichi Kozuka. Kozuka was quiet, stoic, and fiercely loyal to Lieutenant Onoda and the Japanese cause. And finally, there was private first class Yoichi Akatsu. Akatsu was the youngest member of the group, and not exactly thrilled. about hiding out in Lubong. He often slunked out, but the others would eventually bring him back.

Kozuka considered him a liability. For the four men, the early years on Lubong were tough. They worked hard to stay alive. Meanwhile, the outside world tried to rescue them. Planes dropped leaflets, telling the men the war was over. Japanese soldiers who had surrendered left notes, telling them it was safe. Family members sent letters and photos trying to convince the men to come home. But Lieutenant Onoda chalked it all up to trickery.

As an intelligence officer, he was on high alert for fake information, and all of these attempts to rescue them were enemy propaganda. But not everyone in the group felt the same way. In 1949, Yoichi Akatsu finally abandoned the group for good and surrendered to the Philippine army. Onoda, Kozuka, and Shimada lived on, fighting a non-existent war. They regularly attacked civilians, kidnapped, and interrogated people, intimidated villagers, and more.

For the Filipino people living on Lubong, it was extremely distressing. But oftentimes, they fought back. In 1954, Corporal Shimada was shot dead by a Philippine Army search party. And that left only two men, Hiro Onoda and Kinchichi Kozuka. For the next 18 years, they lived on together in the jungles and mountains. Both men were fully convinced the war was still going. on, and it really didn't seem like there was anything people could do to convince them to surrender. But then, in 1972, came a turning point. That year, Kinsichi Kouka was shot dead by Lubong police.

Hido Onoda was now alone to fend for himself. The death of his only friend shook him to his core, and he vowed revenge. But Kouka's death also caused him to reflect on the last 25 years. And that is where we will pick up our story today, Kristen. Oh my. Okay, Kristen. So, immediately after Kozuka fell, Hiro Onida ran as fast as he could. He hid out in a nearby coconut grove and watched.

Lubong civilians began gathering around Kozuka's body. They were excitedly chatting about what had just happened. And I'm sure many were feeling relief that one of the Japanese soldiers that had been terrorizing them was finally dead. Yeah. Onoda couldn't do anything though He was now alone

Engaging in combat was more dangerous than ever before So he watched silently Fuming Eventually he returned back to the camp Onoda buried Kozuka's personal belongings And then he abandoned the campsite So in our last episode I mentioned a fight that the two men had

In which Onada remarked that He really didn't need Kozuka to survive survive on Lubong Island. Right. You know, he's a little bitchy. Yeah. He's a little bitchy. No, we all remember it.

Yeah. And, you know, Hido Onida tried to convince himself that that was true. He was like, hey, you know, I can kind of move wherever I want to go now. I only have to feed myself now. But deep down, he struggled. You know, he wondered how he could go on without his friend. And meanwhile, news of Kozuka's death was making headlines across Japan. And those stories included confirmation that one man was still alive in Lubong, Hiro Onoda.

And so those headlines brought new search parties to Lubong. Here we go again. Yeah. One day, Onodah looked up into the sky to see a new aircraft circling above him. A helicopter. Soon, loudspeakers blared through the jungles. Onoda, son, wherever you are, come out. We guarantee your safety.

Hido Onada ignored it. Just another search party. But he soon realized this was not just another search party. Several members of his family were in Lubong now, speaking through the loudspeakers. His older brother, Tadaol, chanted Japanese war songs. His sister, Chieh, talked about her wedding and the beautiful pearls that Onoda bought her as a wedding gift.

And this time around, Hito Onoda was convinced. These were not impersonators. This was his family. But he still was not sure if it was a trap or not. Well, that doesn't make any sense. So he's thinking his entire family is in on this trick, or his family has been put up to this? Yeah, so he wondered if his family was like captured by the Americans.

and then they were forcing them to like go to Lubong and talk to him. I don't think so either. No, no one cares about you that much. See, that's what I said in episode two. Yeah. You're a lieutenant in the Japanese army. Right. Like American intelligence isn't going to kidnap your entire family

and force them to come to Lubong. Right. Try to get you off the island. Right. No, I just think it was just too much for him emotionally. Yes. to come out. Yes.

That's all it was. It was traumatized. He traumatized himself, basically. Well, it's traumatizing. And we talked about this last week. It's embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. He's been out there for 25 years now.

25 years, yeah. 25 years after the war has ended. Mm-hmm. And you've been wrong this whole time. Yeah. And you're being talked about in your home country. country and now your family's there who hasn't seen you in 25 years, I can honestly see how it would be really hard to come out of hiding at that point. Yeah. So Onina was convinced, you know, yes,

this is my family. They are not impersonators. And that meant that that search party was from Japan. You know, he had always questioned where the search party was from. Yeah. But still, he just couldn't come out. You know, it couldn't have been easy to go from. for over 25 years to instantly be in like, oh, okay, I guess I'll come out. Yeah. So he decided he was going to hide out a little while longer and just kind of wait and see what happened. You know, and while he did that, he continued to struggle with the death of Kozuka. A little over a month after Kozuka's death, Onondah returned to the spot where he fell.

And there he was surprised to see a tombstone with a wreath hanging over it. And the tombstone read, Death Place of Army Private First Class Kinsichi Kozuka. The tombstone had been placed there by the search party. Yeah. Probably as a way to comfort Onoda and, you know, to pay respects to his friend. Yeah. And to reassure Onada that, yes, it is the Japanese that are here looking for you on this island.

When Onodah saw the tombstone, he teared up. He whispered to his fallen comrade, I made things difficult for you, didn't I? You must have suffered a lot. I'm sorry I had fights and arguments with you. Go back to Japan ahead of me and don't worry about me. I will avenge your death, whatever happens. Being alone has not made me weak.

Be at peace. And then in the moonlight, Hiro Onoda sat by that tombstone. He sang songs to himself. It was peaceful. But soon enough, fear came roaring back into his head. and Onoda quietly slipped into the jungle. Days passed. Weeks passed.

The search party kept looking for Hiro Onoda. They dropped more leaflets. They left more newspapers for him to find. They didn't have someone kind of hanging out by that grave marker? My understanding is they didn't want to scare him. Sure. So what they did was they left boxes. and they were just like,

hey, this is how we can communicate. You know, you write something, put it in the box, we'll write something, put it in the box, and they kind of left these boxes kind of all over the island. Yeah, that's smart.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think they were being really cautious with him. Yeah. Still, Onada remained elusive. He was still not convinced. One of his big concerns

was the Philippine Army because they always seem to accompany the search party. And he was like, why? Why is the Philippine army with them? You know, those are the guys that killed Kozuka. If the search party really trusted him, you know, why not leave him a gun? Or why not give me a telephone?

So I can communicate with you. As if he would have used that telephone. Give me a break. Yeah. And again, this is all his words. I know it is. That's why I'm questioning it. Yeah.

I mean, this is what he claimed was going through his head. But that search party was not giving up. In January of 1973, Hito Onoda heard music. He recognized it coming from a loudspeaker. And so he decided to go investigate. And the search party knew that Onoda would come close when he heard that music. Oh, I just burped into the microphone. I apologize.

I'm a professional. We can fix it in post, Kristen. Yeah. It's going to be difficult. I'm going to need a lot of plug-ins. Uh-huh. Does this mean I can't have my new pair of jeans? My computer might crash.

We might have to buy a new computer, but I will get that burp out of the podcast. Wonderful. I promise. The audience is under the impression that I'm a very classy way. So they'd just be... Clearly, I mean, look at this classy basement. Yeah. What more do you want?

Something on the walls? You want art or something? Disgusting. It does feel kind of strange. Feels very sterile. To not have my shelf of... Yeah, sterile. That's a good word.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, class this place up. Don't worry. Yeah, that portrait of your grandpa is going to work wonders down here. It is going to be nice for sure. So, yeah, they played that music and they knew Onoda would come close when he heard it. And soon his brother, Tadao, was talking over the loudspeaker again.

And he said, Hito, this is Tadao. Many of the search party have left. And the soldiers who are here are only here to protect us. They are not trying to kill you. If a Philippine soldier pointed his gun at you, I would jump in front of it and prevent him from shooting. I know you have had the experience of seeing Kozuka killed before your eyes. And I don't suppose you would believe anything I say.

But if you don't get in touch with us, there is nothing we can do. Be brave. Act like an officer. Oh, shit. Okay, little manipulation. I like it. I like it. I'm here for it.

But Onoda wouldn't listen. He thought to himself, my brother was an army officer and he knew what my orders were. Have you had enough of this man? I have had more than enough of this man. Are you ready to, are you ready for them to get a giant fish net and just snatch him up, get a bear trap? I think it's hard for me when the main source is the guy. Yeah.

You know, because it just, especially when it's a guy who, who's not really willing to be like, you know what, I got really scared out there. I felt really stupid. I worried about this, that, and the other thing. Instead, it's just, I had orders. What else was I supposed to do? Be the bravest boy than anyone's ever seen? Fine, I did it.

Fine, I was brave. Yeah, and I know, like, he was kind of indoctrinated and... But, but still... But again, they all were. I know, I know. So, no excuses. Okay. Hashtag no excuses.

Hashtag no excuses. You know, it was no use. It seemed like nothing would convince Hiro Onoda to surrender. Oh, come on. Come on. Be an officer. I know. He's insulting them.

Yeah. You little punk. Yeah. You little prideful punk. Yeah. We're going to demote you to sergeant. That's what he should have yelled. If you don't come out, we're demoting you.

Oh. Now, what do you think he should have, he should have. yelled out. I do think act like an officer is a good thing to yell at him. I think so too. Yeah. But it obviously didn't work. So I guess it wasn't that great. No. It didn't work. And soon enough that that search party left Lubong Island completely. Yeah. Because they didn't think of my great idea, which was the cereal boxes with the little codes on them. The decoder ring. Yes, that says, you're on a secret mission. Come to this location. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You've been right this whole. time. That wasn't your family. Those were all impersonators. A bunch of chumps, really, if you ask

me, this is a long code. He's going to have to decipher. Come to this location for your super secret mission. This is a super long code. He was spending weeks decoding it. I placed a little top hat and a little press on mustache for you to wear. No one's going to know it's you, buddy. Yeah, that would have done it. It would have been interesting if they had set up like a fake mission for him. Like they built a little hut and they were just and they like placed fake stuff in there. And they were just like, this is like an American intelligence hut. We need you to blow it up.

What's that brand of, you know, those little plastic like houses for kids. It's like play school. Play school, yeah. Yeah, like a play school hut. That's what I'm imagining. I don't think he's going to fall for that. As an intelligence officer, he would know that that was made for children. Yeah, it might take him a while, but he'd eventually figure it out.

He'd figure it out, yeah. So yeah, that search party left Lubong. And, you know, other attempts followed, including an effort by the Red Cross. Well, I'm sorry, hats off to the Red Cross, but if his own family and government couldn't do it, what's the Red Cross going to do? I know, I know. They're obligated, you know. No, they're not. I know, you're right. So, yeah, like, that Red Cross search party, they left clothes, newspapers.

They left little mementos from his friends and from, like, soldiers he had served with. His father wrote him a poem. Was it any good? Not really, because I didn't include it. Oh, okay. It was like a haiku. Sure. Not a big haiku guy, huh?

I don't know. That's a lot of pressure to write a poem for your son who you haven't seen in 25 years. Yeah. Who might have gotten cocoa bananas, you know, you're not sure. The poem said, I gave you a chance to water the plants. I didn't mean that way. Now zip up your pants. Norman, that is Shell Silverstein.

Well, Onoda's father was a big fan of Shell Silverstein. So he just plagiarized it. How's Onoda going to know? He's stranded. He didn't know it's plagiarized. He's like, my God, my dad is hilarious. I'm definitely coming out of hiding now. I've got to hear more of this comedy.

brilliant comedy from my father. Now, Onida read the poem and he said that quote, it gave me a strange feeling to know that even my aged father had been brought down to Lubong. At this point, he wasn't really sure what to think anymore.

His mind raced. Maybe Japan wanted him to stay on Lubong on purpose to have the Americans waste more resources trying to find him. My God. Perhaps the Philippine army was allied with Japan now, and that was why they were with the Japanese search party.

But if they were allies, why would the Philippine army have shot and killed Kozuka? But Kristen, it was at this point when Hiro Onadas said he reached a turning point. Specifically when he thought about the idea of the Philippine army was with Japan and they shot his friend, Kozuka. And he was just like, it just doesn't make sense. and he thought perhaps maybe the war was over. Wait, say that again. Okay. So you remember when Tado got on the loudspeaker and he was like,

yes, the Philippine Army is here, but they're just here to protect us. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so he was like, okay, weird. The Philippine Army is now allies with Japan. Because, you know, they weren't allies during World War II. Right. And he said, well, if they're allies, why would they have shot and killed? killed Kozuka.

That does not make sense as a turning point. It did for him. No, it didn't. You don't think so? No, no. Because I think he's putting up one hell of a front. I mean, his mind is all over the place. Yeah, I would believe that.

Yeah. But I believe that it was mostly all over the place from a standpoint of, oh, God, what have I been doing for the past 25 years? Oh my God, oh my God. Can I get to a point where I admit that I've been wrong and come out of hiding? That, to me, is where he has been this whole time. Yeah. Well, I also think it's kind of a buildup of a lot of things.

Yeah. And I do think in his head he knew that the war was over. Everything was fine. People were looking for him. But yeah, you're right. He could not admit that he was wrong and that the past 25 years or whatever had just been for like nothing.

And to me... And his comrades died. Okay, so that's what I was about to say. To me, that's the big thing. He no longer has anyone to lead. Yeah. And if he doesn't have anyone to lead, then there's no one to back up his version of this story.

There's no one to play pretend with anymore. Yeah. For lack of a better term. Yeah. And so with that gone, now he really does have to ask himself, like, am I going to keep doing this? Mm-hmm.

And according to him in his biography or whatever. Autobiography. Yeah. So according to him... I know that because Ashley Simpson wrote a song quite a while ago called autobiography. And that's the only reason I can remember the difference between biography and autobiography because I would always mix him up. Because of the Jessica Simpson song?

Ashley Simpson. Oh, because the Ashley Simpson's song. You see, back in the day, if you were a pop star, your little sister automatically got to be one too. Okay, that's the way it was 20 years ago. It was a glorious time. So when are we getting the Kyla podcast? Because she's your little sister.

It's not 2004. And I'm not a pop star. Tragically, because we all know I sing great. Anyway, her song went a little sister. something like this. If you want my autobiography, baby, just ask me.

Yeah. Incredible. Anyway, that's the incredible true story of how I remember what an autobiography is. Thank you, Kristen. That was very interesting. We're all smarter for hearing it.

This podcast is not a waste of anyone's time. No. So, yeah, according to Hiro-onada, that was the turning point. Like, after all that happened. Yeah, okay. But I agree with you that I think he knew he knew he was wrong for quite a while. Yeah, no, there's not going to be a super logical, like, well, and this was the moment.

Yeah. Because, okay, you're saying something your brother said was the turning point. Well, your brother said a lot of things that you dismissed. Yeah. Onada also claimed at this point he decided to stop attacking civilians. Okay. For the first time, he decided to communicate back with the people looking for him. So on the back of a Red Cross leaflet, he wrote the following.

Thank you for the two uniforms and the hat, which you kindly left me. In case you are not sure, let me inform you that I am in good health, signed Hido Onoda Army Second Lieutenant. Hmm. Ninety-three passed by. That year saw major events happening around the world. The United States withdrew from Vietnam. Greek dictator Georgios Papadopoulos was ousted in a military coup. And the Miami Dolphins defeated Washington in Super Bowl 7,

completing the first and only perfect season in the NFL. Wow. Oh, my goodness. That was the sound of the crowd as they won the game. I mean, dolphins, they look cute, but they sound even cuter. But as the world moved on, there was Hido Onoda, still on Lubong, still hiding. But unbeknownst to him, his imagined reality would soon come to an end. On February 20, 1974, Hido Onoda decided to travel to a spot on Lubong called Wakayama Point.

Waka Yama Point was at the confluence of two rivers. And Onoda liked to go there because it had a lot of food. And the Lubong police knew this. They frequently surveyed the area. So Onada was always very careful when he went there. So he went there. He was peeking around, looking for patrols or search parties. Well, I had a question.

By food, do you just mean growing on trees? Yeah. Okay, gotcha. Bananas mostly. Gotcha. search parties, and that's when he spotted a tent. It was set up right by the river. And he thought, oh my God, are the police camping out for me?

Are they waiting for me? Was that your stomach or your butt, Norm? Stomick. I'll have to edit that out in post, too. Good Lord, we're just a mess. There's no way we can afford pants. All this post-production work. We're clearly going to make a mess of our shorts.

So Onida quickly loaded his rifle, and he walked cautiously toward the tent. As he approached, he soon saw A man standing by the tent. He was alone, just building a fire. And he certainly didn't look like a policeman. He wore a t-shirt and jeans and rubber sandals. Onida led out a... To scare him off.

Oh. The man quickly turned around, and he was trembling. And he stammered out, I'm Japanese, I'm Japanese. Onada was shocked. The man didn't run. Was this a... trap?

Oh my God. He looked around, but he didn't see or hear anyone else. Dude, not everyone is trying to trap you. Oh, my God. Everyone's trying to get me. Everyone's obsessed with me. Stop. Onida pointed his rifle at the man, and he slowly approached him.

Did you come from the Japanese government, he asked? The man's in rubber shoes. Obviously, he didn't come from the government. Yeah, he said, uh... Hell no. So Ono, no, no, no, no. Yeah, to the no. So Ono no was like, well, who are you?

And the man simply replied, I'm just a tourist. Ono no, was confused. A tourist on Lubong? Why would a tourist come to Lubong? It was dangerous. Dangerous because of you, dude. You're the one terrorizing people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. He was like, you know, he was like, this is a war zone. I'm at war. What are you doing here? I'm sticking my rifle in people's, Backsides. Let's not talk about that. I've since learned that backside means your booty hole.

It's not literally your back. Side. Side. It's your bud. Norm, this is an educational podcast for everyone, including us. You're right, Kristen. We're all learning something on this podcast. So yeah, the man was definitely Japanese because Onodon noted his banorisms, his dialect,

the way he wore socks with his sandals. That's Japanese? Yeah, it's a very Japanese thing. Okay. And so, yeah, this guy was definitely Japanese. And his name was Norio Suzuki. Norio Suzuki had been born in 1949 in post-war Japan. He went to university to study economics,

but he eventually decided that school just wasn't for him. He wanted to explore the world and go on adventures. And so he did. For the next four years, he traveled to over 50 countries across Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. That is so cool. And when Suzuki returned home in 1972, he found Japanese society too commercial.

He called it fake. This ain't life, man. Just wasn't for me, man. Is he related to the Suzuki car? I don't think so. Okay. I'm just wondering how he's affording all this travel. Fair question, Kristen.

We'll look into it. Yeah. Suzuki wanted to go on more adventures. But where do you go? He got his answer in October of 1972, when Japanese news reported on the death of Kinchichi Kozuka, and that Hiro Onoda was still alive, hiding in Lubong. Shut up!

And so Norio Suzuki decided, I'm going to go find Lieutenant Onoda. What? Yeah. Okay. So in February of 1974, Suzuki traveled to Lubong. He explored the island. island for four days before finding Hiro Onoda.

Wow. In four days, he found this guy. Wow. That makes sense, though. Why does that make sense? Okay, because of everything we've talked about leading up to this, Iro knows he's wrong. He's on the verge of admitting it to himself. He is.

We can all feel it. We see the cracks. But we also know he's too embarrassed to. to come out to a big group. He's definitely not coming out to his parents. I realize it sounds like he's coming out as gay. That's not what I'm saying. We all know what I'm really saying.

Right. I can't think straight. I don't have pants. So, yeah, one guy, that's the way to do it. One random guy from Japan. Yeah. That's the only way this is going to happen. So there, Onoda was standing before Suzuki with his rifle pointed at Suzuki.

his chest and Suzuki blurted out, are you Onoda son? Onada replied, yes, I'm Onoda. Suzuki looked relieved. Then he said, I know you've had a long, hard time. The war is over. Won't you come back to Japan with me? Onoda shook his head. No, I won't go back.

For me, the war hasn't ended. Suzuki replied, why? Yeah. Great question. And that really pissed Hiro-Hiro Ono Oh, no. Well, you don't want to piss this guy off. He was like, why?

What kind of question is that? I'm fighting for Japan. This is a great honor. You know, it's for my comrades who died. I've been ordered to stay alive and fight as long as possible. You know, why is that so hard for people to understand? Onoda got emotional. He yelled out.

You wouldn't understand. Okay, I'm going to my room. And here is what he said. If you want me to go back to Japan, bring me my orders. There must be proper orders. Oh. That was what he wanted. Noreo Suzuki looked very puzzled.

You've already been ordered. Like 25 years ago. He got a leaflet, but he thought it was fake news, Kristen. Okay, that's not the same. That doesn't make any sense. What do you mean? If you write me a check. Mm-hmm.

And I decide randomly that it's not a real check. And years pass, and I say, well, Norman, what I really need is for you to write me a check, then you could just easily say, I already did that. Well, hang on. And you would be right. Hang on. He grew up in a country that taught him they will never surrender. Yes. He's an intelligence officer.

He's taught to look for fake news. A leaflet drops on him from an American. plane claiming the war is over and here's the order to surrender. I understand why he would look at that and be like, I don't believe this. Okay. You're, yes, yes, yes, fine. You're right. It's totally reasonable to be skeptical. Now, all the other stuff after that should make him go, I agree. You know what? I think that leaflet had a point. When your old ass dad is writing poems to you. Yes. Time to come home, buddy. But this thing of I need an order, that's. No, that was. him saying, I can't admit I'm wrong. So I'm just going to convince people like, I am completely indoctrinated and someone has to tell me that the fighting is over. Specifically. Yeah, I was going to say plenty of people have already told him, but...

We'll get to this in a moment. Okay. So anyway, Norio Suzuki hears that. He looks very puzzled. He's like, orders. What the hell is he talking about? Mm-hmm. And Suzuki asked, what do you plan to do?

Die here? And Onida shot back. I will if I don't have any orders to the contrary. You know, Norio Suzuki could sense that Onoda was getting very agitated. Yeah. And he didn't want to scare him off or even worse, get shot by the guy. So he tried to calm him down. Suzuki offered him a cigarette, which Onoda happily accepted.

And then Suzuki was like, hey, let's talk more. But, you know, let's go do it in hiding. So, like, no one sees us or hears us. You know, go in secret. Okay. And Onada agreed. That was a good idea. So the two men walked into the woods. As they walked, Suzuki filled Onida in on everything that had been going on in the world for the past 30 years. He said Japan had lost the war, that there had been peace for a long time. Onada listened intently, and he was shocked to realize that everything Nodio Suzuki was saying, it lined up perfectly with what he had read in those supposedly. fake newspapers. And then Hito Onoda told Suzuki about his experiences on Lubong,

about how all of his comrades had died, about how they knew that people were looking for them. And then Suzuki asked him, point blank, what could I do to persuade you to come out of the jungle? Onida thought for a moment, and then he replied, Major Taniguchi is my immediate superior. I won't give in until I have direct orders from him. Is that guy still alive?

Yes, he was alive. Thank God. Kristen, if you recall from all the way back in episode one, Major Taniguchi was Onoda's commander when he arrived in the Philippines back in December of 1944. Oh, my lord. He had been the one to pass down the order for Onada to wage guerrilla warfare on Lubong.

Yes. So Nodio Suzuki was like, let me get this straight. If I bring Major Taniguchi and he tells you to meet him at such and such place, at such and such time, you will come. And if he tells you to surrender, you'll surrender.

And Onoda replied, Yes. And that was that. Now we've got to get this old-ass guy on a cruise ship, right? Have him come on over. Yep. Hawaiian shirt.

Straw hat. He does have kind of a fun outfit as you'll find out. Oh, okay. After their discussion, the two men returned to Suzuki's camp. And then Onodah was like, oh, hey, maybe I should stay at your camp for the night.

Hmm. And Suzuki was like, yeah, sure. Hito Onada claimed in his autobiography that it was this secret way of keeping Suzuki under guard until the morning, you know, because he didn't trust him. But I believe Onoda was just very lonely. Yeah. And he was happy to finally be talking to somebody. Well, yeah. The two men sat by the campfire.

Suzuki offered Onoda a drink. Onada said, no, I don't drink. He said he tried it while living in China, but he just didn't like it. But Onida did spot a can of sweetened red beans. Mm-hmm. A delicacy in Japan. And he was like, I'll take those beans, buddy. So if you've ever been to a Japanese restaurant,

sometimes they have on their menu red bean ice cream. I was going to say that's the only thing I know is red bean ice cream. Yeah, so that's the same kind of red bean. They're called adzuki beans. And yeah, in Japan, you can buy them in a can, and they're just like sweet red beans. Okay. So Onida ate the beans, and he savored every bite.

He later wrote, For the first time in 30 years, I was eating something fit for human beans. My tongue, my whole mouth, melted. I savored the wonderful flavor. As the two men ate and drank by the campfire, they shared stories, but there were still some tension in the air.

Every now and then, Suzuki would do something that made Onada suspicious. At one point, Suzuki started cooking some food. And he started adding leaves for flavor. It's very common in Filipino cooking. And so Onida was like, are you working for the Philippine army? Oh, God. But Suzuki dismissed his fears.

He said, hey, you know, when I arrived on Lubong, local villagers, they taught me how to cook like this. And then Suzuki took out a mess kit to eat his meal. And Onada was like, whoa, that looks exactly like the mess kits that the American soldiers used. But Suzuki again, calmed Onoda down. He was like, yeah, it's a mesquit, and I just bought it at the store. Yeah. Hido Onada waited for Suzuki to take the first bite of food before eating it himself.

You know, just to make sure it wasn't poisoned. Sure, sure. Suzuki was able to ease the tension by saying, it never occurred to me that I might one day be sitting here with you, eating from the same pan. I am honored. They stayed up all night talking. The next morning, Nodio Suzuki inquired again. Onoda, son, if there are official orders from your superior, you really will come out, won't you?

You're not joking, are you? If I name the time and the place, will you really come? Onada impatiently replied, yes, I'll come. If you say so, I'll come. And then Suzuki asked one last question. He said, if I tell the embassy that I met you, they're not going to believe you. me, will you let me take a photograph for proof? Oh, wow. And Hito Onida said, yes. To prove it was really him, Onida rolled up the sleeve on his left arm to reveal a scar. It was an accident from practicing

Kendo in middle school. And so that way his family would know it was him. And then Suzuki wanted some photos of himself with Hido Onoda. He said, if I don't take a picture of the two of us together, people might think I faked the shots. So he set the timer on his camera and scurried into the photo, and Hido Onida even allowed Suzuki to hold his rifle. Wow. Yeah. And after that, the two men said their goodbyes.

Suzuki said, I'll come back for you as soon as I can. The press will make a huge story out of this. You're not going to believe it. Onada nodded and shook Suzuki's hand, and then they went their separate ways. Onada returned to his mountain encampment. and thought about what had just happened. He knew Norio Suzuki was not an enemy.

You know, he seemed genuinely happy, and Onoda thought he had a, quote, good, honest face. But was Suzuki a friend? Would he really keep his promise and bring Major Taniguchi to Lubong? Meanwhile, Norio Suzuki flew back to Japan and immediately shared the photographs he took with Onoda, and it caused a media sensation.

Oh my God! Hiro Onoda actually came out of hiding. It was like seeing a picture of a mythical creature or something. And Norio Suzuki did keep his promise. Only two weeks later, a new search party was in Lubong to bring Hiro Onida home. They left a note inside one of those boxes to communicate with Onoda, knowing that he would eventually see that. And sure enough, he did. The note contained the photos of Onoda and Suzuki, along with a message from Suzuki.

It read, I've come back for you, just as I promised. Suzuki asked Onoda to meet him at the same place they met, Waka Yama Point. And once there, quote, instructions would be given to Lieutenant Onoda orally. Onoda couldn't believe it. You know, that last part about getting instructed orally, that meant that his old commander, Major Taniguchi, was on the island. So he was pretty excited about this. Okay.

You know, not only about seeing Major Taniguchi, but seeing Norio Suzuki again. Onoda remarked, I had been wrong to doubt him. And then he stared at those photos some more. He was a little taken aback by his appearance. You know, he hadn't seen a picture of himself so clearly and so long. Onoda thought he looked like his uncles.

Oh. He looked old. Yeah. A lot of time had passed. Had it all been a waste? Well, now there is no time to waste. Hido Onida quickly made his way to Wakayama point. But along the way, old fears and paranoia crept into his mind.

Was this really happening? What if this is a trap? Why hadn't Major Taniguchi come earlier to issue me orders? Was he still working for the army, or maybe he's on a secret mission? But Hido Onida brushed it all off. He finally concluded, if you doubt everything, you end up not being able to do anything. That's true.

So on March 9, 1974, Hito Onoda arrived at Wakayama Point, and there he spotted a tent flying a Japanese flag. Standing outside of the tent was Nodio Suzuki. Suzuki spotted Onoda and exclaimed, It's Onoda! Major Taniguchi, it's Onoda! The tent started to rustle. And then an old voice from inside the tent said, Is it really you, Onoda?

I'll be with you in a minute. What's he busy doing in there? Okay, Norm, no. Bleep that. A moment later, an old man came out wearing a bucket hat. It was Hiro Onada's old commander, Major Yoshimi Taniguchi. Not a bucket hat. Yeah, he had a bucket hat on.

Very stylish in the 70s, Kristen. Norman. protects his face from the sun. I know, I just, you know, if we're dealing with someone who's paranoid, I would not look to someone in a bucket hat as someone who had much authority, okay? He looked like Jumeriqui, all right. Who's that? The future's made of virtual insanity.

Okay. Yep. No, he didn't look like Jumericoy. He had on a bucket hat, he was very cool. So Major Tanaguchi had survived the war, and he returned home to Japan. He was living peacefully in the Miyazaki Prefecture, working as a bookstore owner. When he heard the news about Onoda, he immediately joined the search party and went to Lubong. And now here he was, staring at his old subordinate Hiro Onoda.

The last time he saw him, Onada was 22 years old. God, this had to be so weird. Now Onoda was 52 years old. Hido Onada was stunned to see Major Taniguchi. Was he like, you look like shit, dude. What the hell? He stood at attention, saluted, and barked out. Lieutenant Onida, sir, reporting for orders.

Oh, my God. So Major Taniguchi thought this was all very cute. Oh. He smiled and patted Onida on the shoulder, saying, good for you. Oh, well, that's a little condescending. Yeah, I found very. understanding, but also kind of funny. Yeah.

But anyway, Major Taniguchi then handed Onoda a pack of cigarettes, and they were from the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare, which is very ironic, you know, getting cigarettes from the Ministry of Health. We'll allow it. But on the packaging was the Chrysanthemum crest of the Emperor, and Tehiro Onoda, this was the clearest evidence yet that Japan had truly come back for him. You're rolling your eyes over there. Yes, but I...

He's a little delulu, okay? I'm starting to feel for the guy. I don't know. You had me at, I look like my uncles now. I, I, I, okay, okay, fine. Sure, the cigarette packets are where the truth lies. I'm with you, buddy. Yeah, I think it's specifically the crest of the emperor.

No, it's the cigarettes. So then Major Taniguchi unfolded a piece of paper from his pocket and said, I shall read you your orders. And here they are verbatim. orders from the Special Squadron, Chief of Staff's Headquarters, Balabac, September 19th, 1945, 1900 hours. Number one, in according with the Imperial Command, the 14th Area Army, has ceased all combat activity. Number two, in accordance with military headquarters, command number A-2003, the Special Squadron in the Chief of Staff's Headquarters is relieved of all military duties. Number three, units and individuals under the command of the Special Squadron are to cease military activities and operations immediately and place themselves under the Command's Headquarters.

command of the near superior officer. When no officer can be found, they are to communicate with the American or Philippine forces and follow their directives. Signed, special squadron, chief of staff's headquarters, 14th area army, Major Yoshimi Taniguchi. After reading the orders, Taniguchi paused for a moment, folded up the piece of paper, and said, that is all. Hido Onada stood silent. He waited. He waited for Major Taniguchi to start speaking in code, to give him his real orders. Or maybe he would whisper to him that he would talk to him later in secret. But there was nothing. Hito Onada said his backpack felt very heavy all of a sudden.

He was in shock. It was over? Japan lost the war. Onada recalled, I felt like a fool for having been so tense and cautious on the way here. Worse than that, what had I been doing for all these years? For the first time, I really understood. my 30 years as a guerrilla fighter for the Japanese army were abruptly finished.

This was the end. Onada quietly unloaded his rifle and took off his backpack, and he was overwhelmingly exhausted. Major Taniguchi tried to comfort his lieutenant. He said, it must have been a struggle. Relax, take it easy. He invited Onoda into his tent to talk, and for the rest of the day and night, that's what they did. they talked. Hido Onada spoke about his last 30 years on Lubong Island,

how the Americans easily took the island in four days, how he and his comrades struggled to survive. The many attempts by outside search parties to rescue them, Onada became overcome with emotion when he talked about the death of his comrades, Corporal Shoichi Shimada and Private First Class Kinchichi Kozuka, and with all this new information he was processing, he now saw their deaths in a new life.

light that maybe they had died for nothing. Major Taniguchi didn't say much. He simply listened. In the morning, Hiro Onida, Major Taniguchi, and Norio Suzuki enjoyed a hearty breakfast of fish, rice, and stewed veggies. All from cans. Norm, that is such a Norman thing to include. Oh, come on. And then they had breakfast.

And they had breakfast. And let me tell you what they had. It sounds disgusting. You're right. But here we go. I do love food. And when I hear what they're eating, I got to write it down.

But Onida ate it all up ravenously. Well, sure. And then he decided to wash up by the river before they left. He wanted to get cleaned up. He was going to make his big appearance. Well, yeah. But Major Taniguchi stopped him. He was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't get too cleaned up

because the president of the Philippines wants to meet you. And he asked specifically that you look exactly. as you were found. There was going to be a big media spectacle. The Japanese soldier who fought for 30 years was going to publicly surrender to the president of the Philippines. It was going to be a worldwide story.

As they packed up the camp, Major Taniguchi warned Onoda that when he returned to Japan, he would probably be a celebrity. You know, Onoda hadn't really thought about returning to Japan too much. During the past 30 years on Lubong, he tried hard not to think about his friends and family back home. But now he was confronted with the thought of seeing them all again,

and he wasn't sure what he would say or do. But you know, he really wouldn't have much time to think about that. Nodio Suzuki lit up a beacon, signaling to the rest of the search party that they had found Hido Onoda. And two hours later, that search party arrived at Wakayama Point. And in the search party was Hito's older brother, Toshio. When Toshio saw his little brother, he cried. He put his hands on Hiro's shoulders and said, We finally found you. Then Onoda and the search party made their way to the nearby town of Burole. When Onoda arrived in Lubong,

Burole had maybe 15 houses. Now there were well over 100. As they walked through the streets, locals stared at the Japanese soldier who had been terrorizing people for the past 30 years. There was tension in the air. The Philippine army stood guard. Onada admitted that, quote,

there was a possibility that one of the islanders might take a shot at me. After all, they had reason to hate me. Yeah. But there was no violence, mostly just relief that the last mountain devil had finally been captured. Before leaving the island, Onoda wanted to return to his mountain hideout one last time. You know, there were some things he wanted.

First, there was Kozuka's rifle. He wanted to keep it as a momentum. to honor his fallen comrade and best friend for the past 30 years. And then there was Onida's sword, which every Japanese officer carried during World War II. And finally, Onida wanted to retrieve that white dagger his mom had given him before he left. Yeah. That was all the way back in 1944. And Onida had managed to hold on to it after all these years. And now he could finally return it.

After gathering his things, Onida and the search party headed to a nearby army-referred. radar base. On the road leading in, Philippine Army soldiers stood on either side at attention, and they saluted Hiro Onoda as he walked by. Inside the base, Onada met with Major General Jose Ronkudo. Then he held up his officer's sword with both hands and presented it as a formal surrender. Rangudo accepted the sword and then handed it back to Onoda. And it was officially over. Hiro Onida had surrendered. Since the end of World War II, Onoda had been hiding out on Lubong for 28 years, six months, and eight days. The next day, Hido Onoda returned to Kinchichi Kozuka's grave.

He knelt down to pray for his fallen comrades. Both of you forgive me, he begged, I've let you down. Over the years, the men had occasionally talked about returning to Japan together, and now Onoda was going back alone. He later wrote, Leaving the spirits of my two irreplaceable comrades on the island, returning to a Japan that had lost the war 30 years earlier, returning to my fatherland for which I had fought until the day before, why had I fought here for 30 years?

Who had I been fighting for? What was the cause? Hido Onida had little time to reflect, because now it was time for that big surrender ceremony with the president of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos. President Marcos was also a World War II veteran

who had fought against the Japanese and now he was the President of the Philippines. Uh-oh, why did you use air quotes? Because, Kristen, President Marcos was a dictator. Oh, okay. He had recently declared martial law

in the Philippines, which led to widespread human rights abuses, killings, tortures, and more. Oh. Future topic? Ew, please no. Anyway, President Marcos wanted the whole world to see Hido Onida surrender to him. So on March 11, 1974, the two men met in the city of Medela, where Onada once again surrendered.

Camera flashes filled the room as Onada once again handed over his sword. President Marcos told the press, quote, I'm happy for the recovery of this brave Japanese soldier. Oh. And then to the shock of the citizens of the Philippines, President Marcos pardoned Hiro Onoda for any crimes he committed while in hiding on Lubong Island. Wow.

According to one source I read, the Japanese government bribed President Marcos to pardon Hiro Onoda. Yeah. There would be no justice for the people of Lubong. Gosh. Thoughts, comments. All of it is so sad.

And you've really taken me on quite the roller coaster ride, sir, because I'm back to really feeling for him. That's why I said in the beginning, this is a very complicated story. It is. But at the same time, what he did defies reason. It defies basic common sense. That thing of, oh, he was indoctrinated. No, he was told the same stuff that everyone else was told. and he's the only guy who did this.

He's not the only Japanese holdout. Well, for this long. He's not the one, he's not the longest holdout. He's not? No, I'll get to that later. Well, good grief. Now, I really don't know what to think. But no, I, it's upsetting to think that a group of men could just terrorize a small community for decades.

And we don't even know the extent of what they did. because we're only hearing it from them. Right. We very rarely hear it from the people on Lubong. And we'll get to that later too as well. Well, and I think at a certain point, when someone's being pardoned and they're being celebrated, are you really going to run the risk of saying,

here's what he did to me? Here's what, you know, why would you, what would the point be? Right. So I imagine a lot of people would choose silence. rather than try to go up against this massive narrative that has taken hold of the world. Well, and also, like, Lubong is, I get the sense that it's kind of a isolated island. Sure.

And so maybe you feel like, I can't do anything. Who am I going to talk to about this? Right. It's just like me and my few neighbors. Right. You know. And we're just glad that he's done. Yeah.

They're gone. The next day, Hido Onada arrived in. Japan. Waiting to greet him at the bottom of the plane's exit ramp were his parents, along with a crowd of more than 8,000 people. Holy, that's too much. This dude has been isolated from everyone for 30 years. It's a little shell shock. Give him some space. I mean, there weren't 8,000 people on Lubong. Right. He received a hero's welcome. In fact, just about every Japanese holdout who returned home received a hero's welcome. Two years earlier, in 1972, Japanese soldier Shuichi Yokoy, who had been hiding in the jungles of Guam, finally surrendered.

Yucoy admitted he knew the war was over, but he was too afraid to surrender. Yikoi later commented, we Japanese soldiers were told to prefer death to the disgrace of getting captured alive. Japan celebrated his return home, but Yakoi was more ashamed than anything. He famously told the press, it is with much embarrassment that I return. Wow.

Now in 1974, Hito Onoda had returned. When reporters asked him, what was on his mind all those years? Onada simply replied, Nothing but accomplishing my duty. The country celebrated. There were parades, speeches by public officials, and more. And Kristen, I think many people's instant reactions, when they hear about Japanese holdouts, is like, whoa, that's nuts.

I can't believe these guys thought the war was still going on. And now you're learning that when these men returned home, Japan considered them heroes. And after hearing this series, you know, why do you think that is? Well, okay, I would disagree with the premise of your question because honestly, when you started this series, I said, you know, this is something I've like read headlines about and been like, oh, I should click on that and then I never clicked on it. But even I, obviously, I'm not on the side of the Japanese in World War II. But there is something about the simplicity of this guy believed and he kept on fighting because he wasn't told otherwise. There is something to be admired there when it's just that simple. Right.

So it's not hard for me to understand why Japan would celebrate these men. Because in part, when I just read one little headline, I was like, well, okay, that's pretty admirable. Yeah, and Japanese people felt the same way. They felt pride in Hito-O-Wordida, something they had not felt in a long time since the end of World War II. War War II had devastated Japan. But Onoda's time on Lubong kind of harkened back to the old days of the samurai and the Bushido Code, the importance of duty and perseverance. To them, Hiro Onoda had made a huge sacrifice for his country. Yeah.

Author Charles S. Terry said it well when he wrote, Onada showed signs of being something that defeat in World War II had deprived Japan of. a genuine war hero. Onoda was intelligent, articulate, strong-willed, and stoic. I saw your little head tilt when I said intelligent. I saw the head tilt.

If you have the video version, you will see the head tilt. Norm, that was... I think this needs to be an emoji, a sticker, Kristen's head tilt. Norm, that was supposed to be just for... for the people who have video access.

That was me being a little attitudey. But, okay, continue. How smart he is. Continue. Strong will, definitely. But respect for Onida wasn't just in Japan. His story resonated even in the United States, especially among American World War II veterans.

One of them was a newspaper columnist named Watson, Sims. He had served on a submarine crew during World War II, in coincidentally the Philippines, and he said that during the war their submarine was disabled, and the crew agreed that they would all hide on the islands of Quinny Lubon. But luckily it never came to that. Another American boat rescued his submarine crew, but Watson Sims had always wondered what life would have been like for him if they had carried out that plan to hide. And could he have done what Hido Onoda did? Hido Onoda may have embodied the spirit of the samurai warrior for some people, but to the Filipino people living on Lubong, he was still the mountain devil, the man who had terrorized them for 30 years,

and was now being celebrated around the world for his bravery. That must have been incredible. incredibly hard to stomach. Yeah. You know, celebrated for his bravery when he terrorized largely unarmed people for 30 years. Yeah. What's brave about that? I would be asking. That would really hurt to see.

Yeah. Like if you had a family member killed by this man and you see him being celebrated around the world. Meanwhile, Hiro Onoda struggled to adjust to his new life in Japan. The country was very different now. Japan was modernized. Tokyo was a sprawling metropolis. He tried to adjust. He took driving lessons.

He went dancing like he did it all those years ago while living in China. He traveled all over the country. But as the New York Times put it, he found himself a stranger in a strange land, disillusioned with materialism and overwhelmed. by changes. The Japanese government offered Onoda back pay for the 30 years he served hiding on Lubong. Allegedly, Onoda refused the money and had it donated to a local shrine. No idea if that's true or not. Publishers from all over the world fought for the rights to his story. And eventually, Onoda got a $160,000 book deal.

Sorry, I didn't adjust for inflation. I'm a bad boy. Ew, don't say that. Hang on. Million dollars, baby. All right. The book was entitled, No Surrender, My Thirty Year War. For the first time, people got the inside story of Hiro Onoda's life on Lubong. Of course, a major part of that story was left out.

The killing of innocent people on Lubong. In the book, Onoda admitted that they did harass and shoot at civilians, but he never mentions killing anyone. Two years after that book came out, fuel was thrown on the fire. The book's ghost writer, Suda Sheen, wrote his very own book, entitled Imaginary Hero, three months with Officer Onoda. Oh, shit. Wait, was that guy not ordered to sign an NDA for that?

I don't know. That's amazing. I know. Okay, let's hear all about it. In the book, Sheen claims that. that Hiro Onoda was no hero. He believed that Onida knew the war was over. Yes.

And that he not only killed Filipino civilians, but that he enjoyed doing it. Sheen estimated that Onoda and his men may have killed up to 130 civilians. Oh. He wrote, it was clearly murder. At least it was not a fight. I say this because from hearing his stories carefully, it was clear that the islanders had no intention to kill. The book was nowhere near as popular as Onoda's biography, but it did start up more conversations about his actions on Lubong. Onoda got more and more questions about it.

He answered, We wanted the Americans and Filipinos to know that there were still Japanese soldiers on the island. I just had to fight. I wasn't doing it for fun. we used the locals to demonstrate our existence. I may have had freedom, but the tension was always there. Eventually, everything became too much for Hiro Onoda, and so he left Japan.

He moved to Brazil, where there was a large Japanese community. His older brother Tadao lived there as well. In Brazil, Onoda became a cattle farmer. He got married to a woman named Machi Onuku, a Japanese tea ceremony teacher. And over the years, Onoda and his wife split time between Brazil and Japan. In 1984, Onada established the Onoda Shizenjuku, a.k.a. The Onada Nature School, an educational camp for young people. In 1986, Norio Suzuki, the man who convinced Onoda to come out of hiding, was exploring the world again.

After finding Hiro Onida, Suzuki's next goal was to find a wild panda. He did. He found that panda, Kristen. All right. Yeah, I was like, huh, wild panda. I guess they're very hard to find. Yeah, hmm. You know what my thought was?

What? Well, I've seen them at the zoo. I know exactly how you're thinking. Just go to the zoo, buddy. You don't have to travel the world and set up in a tent. Yep, he wanted to see him in the wild. That's fair. And then after that achievement, he wanted to.

to find proof of the abominable snowman. Shut up. And so, he was in the Himalayas looking for the mythical Yeti. And tragically, Nodio Suzuki died in an avalanche. Oh. His body was discovered a year later. Okay, Norm, I want to blame you for this, but I really thought you were making a joke, and my face went on quite a journey.

That is too bad. But perhaps the price you pay when you search out the... abominable snowman. You live by the Yeti, you die by the Yeti. He was an adventurer till the very end, Kristen, no doubt. In 1996, Hito Onoda must have been feeling some sort of remorse for what he did in Lubong. Because that year, he established a $10,000 scholarship at a Lubong school and returned to the island. Oh, God, and they were like, no thanks. Get the hell out of here.

There was a celebration kind of welcoming Onida back, but there were also protests. Many families who had loved ones murdered by Onoda and his men demanded compensation for their loss. Yeah. But nothing ever happened. All he did was donate 10 grand. 10 grand scholarship. On January 16th, 2014... May I just interrupt.

I think that's really fucking gross. Tell me more. I don't think that's remorse at all. I think that's rubbing it in. You go back to a place where you terrorized people for 30 years, where you definitely murdered people, but never admitted to it. You're a worldwide hero. You've been pardoned for everything you did to everyone.

And you come in with a $10,000 scholarship, after all the money you've made selling your story, that's rubbing it in. That's returning to the scene of the crime. Yeah. And because you're giving some money, you're kind of forcing people to smile and say thank you after all you did to them.

Get fucked. Sorry. Apologize, but not really, not to him. If you really wanted to apologize, Kristen, you would give me a $10,000 style of show. After all the terror, After everything you've just done. No, I hate that.

I get what you're saying, though. And I honestly didn't really think about it that way, but I can see that. I could tell you didn't, and that's why I said it. It felt bad that he went back. Yes. You terrorized a community. You faced positive consequences for it. Positive consequences.

Right, yeah. You profited off of it tremendously. You became an international celebrity. Mr. Worldwide, some might call him. Some do call him. A hero. And yeah, you go back. Hi.

Mm-mm. Are you collecting your thoughts, sir? Yeah, I'm good. Because of all the truth I've just dropped on you. No, that's a fair take. You damn right it is. Well, on January 16th, 2000, what? I'm sorry.

I don't know how to segue to this next part. I'm trying to think of what it's like, you know, using a metaphor that's a little lower stakes. But that's like, you blow up someone's toilet, and then you come over a week later with like a $100 gift card to Chili. Oh, now you're just rubbing it in. Now you're just rubbing it in. Yeah, you're just rubbing it in.

No, I hate that. Anyway, do your bad transition into whatever comes next, please. On January 16th, 2014, Hido Onida died. Oh, okay, that is a weird transition. I apologize. From heart failure. Okay. He was 91 years old.

Well, good grief. Okay. For the Japanese people, Hido Onada's story symbolized something bigger. Japanese chief cabinet secretary Yoshihide Suga commented that, I vividly remember that I was reassured of the end of the war when Mr. Onoda returned to Japan. It was as if his return had brought some sort of closure

about the war for Japanese people. And today, Onada's story is still talked about, like on this small, sexy, independent podcast. In 2021, a film called Onoda, 10,000 Nights in the Jungle, premiered at the Cannes Film Festival. The almost three-hour-long film was described as a poignant. It's poignant. Okay, poignant drama.

No, poignant. Is it poignant? Yes, I was just messing with you. And I feel like I've messed up your brain now, so you're always going to question that word. The film was described as a poignant. drama in one real-life soldier's stubborn pursuit of honor. Sadly, the movie completely glosses over the killing of innocent Filipino civilians.

Well, they only had three hours. My God. Just like in my Kirby episode of the game historian, there's just no time. There's just no time. There's no time. It's not because telling the truth would complicate the narrative or complicate the message we're trying to said.

It's just because there's no time. No time. But you know, hopefully that side of the story will see more light.

An upcoming documentary film from Mia Stewart entitled Searching for Onoda, the devil of the mountains,

explores the story of Hito Onida through the lens of Mia Stewart's own family. They lived

in Lubong during that time. Thank you. Okay. And experienced the terror firsthand. In fact,

Mia Stewart's great uncle was killed. by Hiro Onoda while working on his farm. Wow. Stewart is also working to have Sudashin's book, Imaginary Hero, translated into English. Yes.

So more people can learn about these atrocities. History Ho's, if you are interested in supporting this important piece of history, please consider donating at searchfor Onoda.com. Norm, Norm, the important thing is for me to get a pair of jeans. Are you trying to get this lady some money? I'm trying to split the pot to you. No, that sounds like a very worthy cause. And that, Kristen, is the story of Hiro Onada,

the Japanese soldier who refused to surrender. And before we get into post-episode discussion, I mentioned that there were more holdouts. Yeah. The very last confirmed Japanese holdout came out in December of 1974. So the same year Onada came out. Private Teruro Nakamura came out of hiding from the island of Moratai in Indonesia.

As late as 1980, there were reports of a Japanese soldier hiding in the Philippines still. They found his encampment, but they never found him. So he was presumed dead. Wow. Yeah. there were probably untold number of holdouts that died wow well i guess that indoctrination was pretty strong then i mean yeah norm you took me on a wild ride through this series but also just in this one episode alone in what way well were you paying attention to me at all i started out like this guy's a moron

Then I got all soft. Then you got sad for him. And then by the end, you were like, pissed off. Fuck this guy. Take your $10,000 of pocket change and get the hell out of here, asshole. Anyway, so that's quite a wild ride. Mm-hmm. And then I segued into him dying.

Yeah, that was awkward. Yeah. It's interesting. So I think about Iro Onada and the guy who surrendered two years earlier and how Iro Onada was definitely seen as more of the hero, right? Yeah. I think Hero Onada was willing to give people the story they wanted to hear.

I think so, too. I did, man, that quote, it is with much embarrassment that I returned. Yeah. That guy was real. Yeah. He was being real. And that's not the story anybody wanted to hear. No.

Well, and you know, he had always wanted to. to be something. Yeah. Want to be something big. Yeah. This was it. Yep. I'm the Japanese soldier who did his duty and served no matter what the odds.

And that was his way of being, becoming big. Mm-hmm. Becoming celebrated. Right. And so, yeah, he would say, I was just serving. I was doing my duty. And of course I never, you know, oh, of course, of course I believed it. Of course I believed it.

Of course I believed it. Yeah. And, oh, no, I'm not just going to surrender when it seems obvious that I need to. I'm going to make you bring an old bookstore owner out here in his bucket hat. Major Taniguchi. Video version, you'll see some great pictures of Major Taniguchi. Okay, I need to look up. I want to see Bucket Hat, man.

What's his name again? Major Taniguchi T-A-N-I-G-U-C-H-I Yep, okay You should see An older man in a bucket hat Isn't he cute? He is very cute

Do you see the picture of him saluting with Onoda? Yes, yes And he kind of has a look on his face like Oh, can you believe this? Okay, I'm here. Yeah Yeah, I like him very much. Oh, yeah.

What a story. Norm, that was excellent. Thank you. Thank you for making us feel all kinds of feelings, about half of them completely unwanted. Yeah, like I said, it got complicated for me, too, reading about this, because I was like, wow, I can't believe this guy out here surviving. And then it's like, oh, he's killing innocent people. Yeah. And who knows what else?

I mean, I mentioned in the last episode, sexual assault, rape. Sexual violence is a part of guerrilla warfare. It is. Obviously, we don't know if that was a factor here, but I would not be shocked. Nope. Yeah, and like I said, never saw anything like that in my research. But if it did come out that he did do that, I would not be surprised. Yeah.

Kristen, you got anything fun and exciting for us? This next series, because it's your turn next. I do, actually. People want something fun. You know, someone requested, like, the history of whoopee cushions or, like, ball in a cup. They want dumb stuff. I don't blame them. We've been real heavy lately.

Yes, yes. No, this next thing I'm doing, gosh, I don't know whether to say too much. I bought a book. It was stupidly expensive. because it started out as kind of a stupid book. And of course, it went out of print, but I desperately needed it for the juicy details of this story. So I'm hoping it arrives today.

And that's all I'm going to say. And this is why we can't afford to get you paints here in Michigan because we bought this very expensive book. It actually wasn't that expensive, like in the grand scheme of things. But it's more like when you consider what it is. Yeah. You know. Mm-hmm.

Okay, we get what I'm saying. Anyway, my, don't worry, my series, no one's getting killed, everyone's fine. But boy, are people pretty rude to each other? So, that'll be fun. Looking forward to it. Uh-huh. All right, should we wrap this up? Let's do it.

You know what they say about history hoes. We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from the book. No Surrender, My 30-year War, by Heard. Oh, Noda. And the BBC article, Onoda, the man who hid in the jungle for 30 years. And other sources, check the show notes.

That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Kristen really needs pants, folks. I need pants. Join the Reddit community, R-slash-old-timey podcast.

Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram. at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. She is the beautiful but pantsless, Kristen Pitts-Karuso. Beautiful and pantsless. I go by Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio. Goodbye.