An Old Timey Podcast - 82: D.B. Cooper’s Infamous Hijacking (Part 1)

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

This episode kicks off our coverage of the only unsolved airplane hijacking in United States history. On November 24, 1971, a nondescript man boarded a flight to Seattle. He wore a dark suit. He carried a briefcase. As the plane took off, he told the flight attendants that he had a bomb. He demanded $200,000 in ransom money, plus four parachutes. The airline, along with federal agents, scrambled to meet his demands. When the plane landed in Seattle, he allowed the passengers to leave. Then the man – who would later be known as D.B. Cooper – instructed the crew to fly him to Mexico. His instructions revealed a high level of knowledge about the Boeing 727 jet. And then? He did the unthinkable. He parachuted out of the plane with the ransom money in tow, never to be heard from again.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: The book, “Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper,” by Geoffrey GrayThe documentary, “DB Cooper: Where are you?!”The documentary, “The Mystery of DB Cooper”“Who was the mysterious hijacker D.B. Cooper?” by Ella Morton for History.com“D.B. Cooper Hijacking, FBI.gov“The missing piece of the D.B. Cooper story,” by Andrea Marks for Rolling StoneAre you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm Norman Caruso. And on this episode, I'll be talking about D.B. Cooper. Down Bad Cooper. Oh, well, that's kind of cute. But no, this is a serious story about hijacking. Okay, I know this story. Oh, yeah? Do you? Do you think you know it? Well, not on the level that you probably know it. But I have always been fed. fascinated by this story. I know the basics, I guess. Okay, okay. Well, prepare yourself, but you know what? I hear you trying to usher me right along into my story, but I have some insider knowledge, and the insider knowledge is that you have a mistakes of shame to confess.

Do I? Norm, what terrible thing did you do? Well, let me tell you, Kristen. Mistakes of shame! Kristen, in our last episode, I talked about a very, very, very spot. faithful man named Joseph Richardson. Yes. I also talked about his family, about how his daughter lived in a prison-like house located at 110 East Houston Street in New York City. Mm-hmm. I was informed by many New York history hosts that I am pronouncing the name of that street incorrectly, although it is spelled H-O-U-S-T-O-N, much like the city in Texas.

Uh-huh. It's actually pronounced Houston. Houston Street. Oh, that's weird. The street is named after William Houston, a founding father. Wouldn't it be funny if he pronounced it Houston, though? In my defense. Oh, boy.

Oh, here we go. William Houston spelled his last name, H-O-U-S-T-O-U-N. And then, according to Wikipedia, in 8-E-E-R-E-N. in 1811, someone corrupted the name of the street and changed it to H-O-U-S-T-O-N. How is this in your defense? Because I'm basically saying this is... Norm, is your strategy to make this mistakes of shame segment so boring that we all stop listening and just assume you're fine?

Is that the strategy? Because it's working, my man, it is working. What I'm saying is, if New York had just kept the name of the street, H-O-U-S-T-O-O-U-U. UN, I may have been a little more of a curious history. I've been like, huh, I wonder how you say the name of that street. But somebody in 1811 corrupted, according to Wikipedia, the name of that street and changed it to H-O-U-S-T-O-N, which is like the name of the city in Texas. So there you go. I, for one, am so glad that you are picking a fight with all of New York.

I'm not. I think you're definitely going to win. I'm not. I'm admitting my mistake here. That New York hadn't messed this all up for you, because clearly this is not on you. Norman, congratulations on a wonderful segment of... Mistakes. Of shame!

Woo! So, uh, there you go. You got a plug for our Patreon? Yes, I do. Kristen, the holiday season is just around the corner. Oh, I thought you were going to shame me. I was prepared to be shamed. Why would I shame you?

Well, folks, in our last episode, I let you all know that we were going to have trivia that very night. Trivia, it's a good time for our patrons. And on that particular fateful night, a dark and stormy night, it was, we played a Kristen trivia. It was where my evil husband, who sits before me, wrote a bunch of questions about my episodes, and I participated. And folks, I deeply regret to inform you that in a game of trivia,

where all of the questions came from scripts that I researched, wrote, and performed for y'all. I came in second place. It's true. I was there, and it is true. Of course, I do not accept these results. I believe that trivia was stolen from me by bad actors, and I would like all of us to storm the Capitol. Are you challenging the results of the trivia? Absolutely. If I don't win, then the game is no fair and I'm going home. If I do win, then it was a very fair game and we all had fun.

Don't you agree? I guess I do agree, Kristen. You know, people could have witnessed that trivia if they had signed up for our Patreon at patreon. At patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. For just $10 a month, $10, you get bonus episodes, a sign card and sticker, early ad-free video episodes, access to our monthly trivia parties. You can watch Kristen Crumble right before you're up. 10% off all merch

and add free episodes of Kristen's old podcast, let's go to court. By the way, you can also gift Patreon to a friend or family member. Give the gift of history this holiday season and gift them a membership to our Patreon. Patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

Thank you. And with that, Kristen, take it away. Tell us about Down Bad Cooper. Okay, folks. Norman has revealed that he knows a little too much about D.B. Cooper. I did not say that. But don't worry, don't worry, I'll tell you the whole story.

Today, I will be talking about the only unsolved airplane hijacking in United States history. Picture it! Twas the Wednesday before Thanksgiving at Portland International Airport in the great state of Oregon. Kristen, what a timely episode. Everyone, just so you know, we are recording this on Thanksgiving. Eve. And do I think it's cute? Yes, I do. That's why I rushed to finish this so we could record it on Thanksgiving Eve. Traditionally, the day before Thanksgiving is one of the busiest travel days of the year. And November 24th, 1971 was no exception. That afternoon, a man walked up to the Northwest

Orient Airlines ticket counter. He paid $20 cash for a one-way ticket to Seattle. $20? I know. He didn't show his ID because it was the 70s, baby. He didn't have to. Not required. When asked his name, he replied, Dan Cooper. That man, who, thanks to a reporting error, would later become known as D.B. Cooper, appeared to be unremarkable. He carried a dark, unremarkable briefcase. He wore a dark, unremarkable. Unremarkable briefcase. He wore a dark, remarkable suit with a white, unremarkable button down underneath. He wore a thin dark tie and dark shoes. He carried a dark raincoat. He wore a hat and a pair of sunglasses. The man was white, but kind of tan.

Well, maybe Olive, actually. And he was tall, sort of, six feet tall. Sounds like there's a little... Maybe 5'10. Maybe people weren't really sure what this guy looked like. Hmm. He was thin. Mm-hmm.

Actually, well, maybe average build. Okay. And, hey, hey, we know this. He had black hair. He had black hair. Mm-hmm. Oh, God. Or maybe it was just dark brown.

Could have been dark brown. What time did you say it was when he showed up at the airport? It was in the afternoon. Okay. So him wearing sunglasses would have been totally normal, right? Yeah. Okay. I was just thinking if it was nighttime and he walked in wearing sunglasses.

that'd be suspicious to me. It sure would. And also there's a little debate over whether he was actually wearing them in the airport or if he put them on when he was on the flight. Okay. Either way, here's the description. He was in his 40s or 50s. He was 29.

Nope, nope, nope, mid-40s. I heard he was a 12-year-old boy. In short, this D.B. Cooper person looked. like a lot of the other dudes milling about the airport that day. Except he wasn't like the other dudes at the airport that day because he was there to commit a crime, a brazen, almost unthinkable crime. That day, he set out to do what no one had successfully done before. He set out to hijack an airplane, demand ransom money, and then, with the ransom money securely attached to his body, parachute out into the night sky, never to be heard from again.

Kristen, didn't you talk about a similar plot in the last bonus episode of an old-timey podcast? I did do that. In the bonus episode we just released, I told a story about a man who just 10 days before D.B. Cooper did this, tried to do this in Canada with disastrous results. Yeah. It's a very different story. It's a wild story. It's a story of some real heroics on the part of the flight crew and a story of real dumbness on behalf of the hijacker. I think that's the way we can put it. Yeah. Look, the man wore a hood with a wind. on top of it and for reasons I don't understand he also had a fake mustache glued to his face underneath the hood with the wig on top of it. Yeah, this guy was a real wild card. You know who's not a

real wild card? D.B. Cooper. Mm-hmm. The man went to Gate 52, Concourse L. He boarded flight 305 headed to Seattle. The plane was surprisingly empty that day. The Boeing 727 was capable of holding 94 passengers. But that day, there were only 36 passengers and six crew members on board. Damn, must be nice. I love when that happens when you get on a flight and it's like not full at all. Oh yeah, this is a real fun story. You're going to wish you were on this flight, Norm. Hey, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a second. I have two things. One, Portland to Seattle. That's a quick flight. Yeah, less than half an hour. And two, if I recall, well, I don't want to, I don't want to Spoil it. I'll let you tell the story.

You know, the more you keep talking, the more it occurs to me that you kind of fit the description of this D.B. Cooper, fella. You might have to turn you in if you piss me off. White guy with glasses? Yeah. White guy, dark hair, kind of tall. Uh-huh. He is an age.

Sure. Yep. Where's dark clothes sometimes? Hey, when you used to pick me up from the airport, you several times almost picked up complete strangers because they looked exactly like me. No, that was back when you worked at the IT. Well, that did happen at the airport, but really it happened a lot when you worked at the IT place because IT guys, they've got a look, they've got to look. Nerdy little white boys.

So the man took a seat in the last row of the plane, row 18. He placed his briefcase in the window seat next to him and settled in for what was supposed to be a 20. seven-minute flight. During the pre-flight announcements, pilot William Scott announced that they needed to get moving. Bad weather was headed their way. As the pilot spoke, the flight attendants made their way down the aisles, getting passengers their drinks before take-off. Flight attendant Florence Schaffner started from the back of economy class. She asked the man in Roe 18 if he'd like anything to drink. The man asked for a bourbon and seven-up. Oh, what does that call? I don't know, but it sounds kind of good, honestly.

That's got a name. You know, I wonder if it's called the D.B. Cooper now. It should. Let's see, bourbon and seven up. The drink is a variation of the classic seven and seven. Oh, he handed her a $20 bill. The bourbon and seven up only cost a dollar, so Florence asked if he had a smaller bill.

He didn't. So Florence told him she'd get him his change when she finished taking the rest of the orders. Sometime later, likely when she came back with his change, the man calling himself Dan Cooper handed Florence a note. And while that may seem like a big deal,

it really wasn't. In fact, Florence thought so little of a passenger handing her a note that she just stuck it in her pocket and completely forgot about it. Really? Yeah. I guess if you like have a complaint

and you don't want to say it out loud, you would hand him a note, right? Norv you're the best man. I am. You are the best man. Wow. You think that's the reason why Florence was just like, uh-huh, okay, keep it moving. Oh, okay, wait a minute.

Okay, okay. I just thought of another reason. You think the guy wrote, my tray table is dirty. I'm too shy to say this out loud. Possibly. But in a stroke of genius, I have thought of another reason, Kristen. What's the reason? A lot of men probably hit on her.

Yes, yes. And they wrote, do you like me, check yes or no. God, I hope that's what. they wrote. I really think they were a little more explicit in their notes. No, you're right. Florence figured that the guy was just hitting on her. That was super common in those days. Norm, I just love you so much. What? That you thought he was writing a complaint. This seat's a little stiff. Don't tell anyone I feel this way. I don't want anyone on board to know that I'm upset. In those days, flight attendants, despite being trained in all kinds of life-saving procedures,

were mostly treated like sex objects by the airlines that employed them. This is just a really gross part of the story, and I've actually trimmed a lot of this out. But back in the day, there were all kinds of rules for flight attendants. Like, in some airlines, you had to retire by the time you were 30. If you were married, you could not be a flight attendant. attendant. What? Later, that evolved to, okay, we'll accept married women, but you can't wear your wedding ring.

Oh, my God. Advertisements around this time were disgusting. One of the books I read said that in order to combat the fear of flying and to get people to stop focusing on their fear of flying, they instead made it about, look at these super hot flight attendants who are here for your pleasure. So it was like a twin peaks or a hooters basically? Yeah, yeah. Good Lord, I didn't know that.

Speaking of which, the Southwest Airlines flight attendant uniforms, Tangerine hot pants and white cowboy boots. I assume the ladies were allowed to wear tops, but I guess I didn't specify. We can't confirm. So yeah, she's used to this kind of treatment. But it did strike Florence as a little odd. that this man was hitting on her so early in the flight after barely even speaking to her. I forgot another not at all fun fact.

Flight attendants were put on strict weight probation, and our girl, Flo here, had recently been put on unpaid probation because one of the spotters spotted her on an airplane was like, mm, she's too chunky. and so she went to a doctor, got diet pills. It was a whole thing. Now she's back in business and she's about to be on a hijacked plane. It's a mess. I feel like this is a future topic right here.

You know, I got all fired up about it and I realized this script's going to be too long if I go off on this stuff and look at me going off on it anyway. Well, I'm glad you mentioned it because I do think that's really interesting. Yes. I'm sure our listeners will find it interesting too. Listeners, reach out if you too thought that when Flo put that note in her pocket, it was because she thought this fan is just lodging a complaint. Another complaint. So, you know, she thought it was a little odd that he gave her the notes so early, but her focus was really elsewhere. Just like nearly everyone else on board that day, Florence was ready, ready to get the flight over with, ready to go back home.

and spend Thanksgiving with her family. So she and the other economy class flight attendant, a woman named Tina Mucklow, finished serving the passengers their drinks and settled into the jump seats in the back of the plane. But Florence noticed that the man in row 18 kept looking at her. Finally, just as the plane was taking off, he leaned over toward her.

In a low voice, he said, Miss, I think you better have a look at that note. Now, if she was still thinking, is this guy hitting on me, that would be real creepy. Yeah. Especially because he was staring at her. Florence reached into her purse where she'd stashed the note away. She opened it. Oh, my God.

In careful black ink, the man had written, Miss, I have a bomb in here, and I would like you to sit by me. Florence got up. She took the seat next to him. There wasn't time to communicate with Tina, but as she moved, Florence let the note flutter to the floor. Florence stared at the man. She asked him, you're kidding, right? And the man responded in that same low, calm voice.

No, miss. I have a question. Yeah. And I know this isn't important. Okay. He was in a seat and his briefcase was in the window seat. So was she across the aisle? from him, or was he sitting in the middle seat?

I believe he was in the middle seat. Okay. Thank you. And with that, he grabbed his briefcase, which he'd placed in the window seat next to him. He opened it. Florence peered inside. He wasn't kidding. Horrified. She counted eight sticks of dynamite. They were attached to a battery. And then there was this copper wire. The man held it in his hand.

It all felt unreal, but it was real. Florence started to panic. She turned back to Tina. She tried to speak, but the words got caught in her throat. Finally, they came out all at once. Tina, Tina, Tina, Tina, Tina. Florence gestured to the note on the floor. Tina picked it up.

She read it. Tina was stunned. At just 22 years old, she was the least experienced member of the crew. She'd become a flight attendant because she'd always been fascinated by planes, and she thought that the flight attendants all seemed so beautiful and glamorous and sweet. It looked so fun. And here she was doing what she thought was her dream job, and now the worst possible scenario was unfolding in front of her. Tina thought fast. She went to the inner phone at the back of the plane. The inner phone had a direct line to the cockpit,

where the captain, co-pilot, and flight engineer all sat, unaware that a man at the back of the plane was threatening to blow it up. Tina was succinct. She told them, we're being hijacked. He's got a bomb. This is no joke. It had to have been a stunning thing to hear. A horrible thing to hear.

But oddly, not an unthinkable thing to hear. That's right. And that's because. as you may remember from our bonus episode. In the 60s and early 70s, hijackings, or skyjackings, as some people call them, were weirdly common. In fact, on average, around the world,

someone skyjacked an airplane about once a week. And why the hell not? It was super easy to do. Because airport security wasn't really a thing. And I do want to be. to make a note that skyjacking is not when you masturbate on an airplane. It's combining sky with hijacking. You know, I want to argue with you, Norm, but I think you're absolutely right. I think skyjacking is a word that was invented to seem cooler than hijacking. But really,

it does just sound like some gross dude goes into that nasty little bathroom and skyjacks it. Actually, our editor, Joe. Skyjacks? Yeah, he skyjacks all the time and he tells me about it on Discord. And I'm like, Joe, please stop talking me about this. Also, please stop doing this. No, he commented the other day, he was like, it took me a while to like realize, oh, skyjacking means hijacking in the sky. So just out of, you know.

There we go. Clarify it for everybody. That's all. In the United States, airlines lobbied against security measures using the foolproof logic that security costs money. Plus, if passengers have to go through metal detectors or additional screening measures, they might opt to drive instead of fly. And what could be worse than that?

Ugh. A skyjacking? No, no, skyjackings are fine. It's cool. I mean, hey, hijackings happen when you drive, too. You got to expect it when you fly. Plus, security, that didn't sound very free to me in the land of freedom. Wow.

Norm, you've got great law. and I love all of it. So hijackings were common. A lot of the time it wasn't about money. Oftentimes it was about going somewhere you weren't supposed to go. Norm, I am trying not to laugh out loud because some of this script, this part right here, I also had to include in my other episodes to kind of set the scene. Yeah.

And you really struggled with the concept of hijackings and ransom monies and how this goes. So I'm going to go ahead and explain it. And if you feel like any details need to be included, I'm going to give you your time to shine. Okay. For example, in 1961, the United States cut off ties with Cuba. They made it so people could not travel to Cuba. So, over the next 10 years, 80 airplanes were successfully hijacked to Cuba. It became so common that it became a joke.

Take me to Cuba was the catchphrase of the hijacker. but this didn't feel like much of a joke. And Norman, I'm pausing here. Is there anything you want to add? Anything you feel like people might not understand? No, it all makes perfect sense now. Okay. Now, I am curious if anyone hijacked a plane just because it was, they changed their mind about where they wanted to go.

I mean, who knows? It is possible. It seems really dumb, though. It does. Really dumb. Yeah, because that's what I thought in the bonus episode. That's what people were doing. Norm thought maybe he'd be heading to Raleigh one day

and all of a sudden get a hankering to go to Disney World and just throw a fit. Yeah, there's no way I'm going to Raleigh, and I take the whole plane. You also had an interesting idea that I feel like you were thinking of skyjackings as kind of like an old-fashioned train robbery, where you go through and rob each passenger. Absolutely. Yeah, but no, it's. It's you announce that you're hijacking the plane, then you land somewhere and get ransom money, and then you leave. Hmm.

I wonder why they didn't rob the passengers. You don't want to rob the wrong person who will then beat the shit out of you and it's just a mess. What do they have on them? Maximum $80? No, thanks. I don't know what I'm saying. They robbed trains. They robbed all the passengers on the trains back in the day.

Why not do that on a plane? Yeah, that was very risky and also easy to get away because it's just a train. Well, and also in those train robberies, there were multiple criminals involved. So, yes. You had your whole, the whole gang was there, you know. Anyway, continue. Captain William Scott radioed to ground control. He told them everything he knew.

They were being hijacked, hijacked by a man claiming to have a bomb. They didn't know yet what the man wanted. But, oh my God, it was surreal. In a weird twist of fate, just a few weeks earlier, Captain William Scott had attended Career Day at his daughter. school. He'd told students what it was like to be a pilot. And when it came time for questions, one of the students asked him, ever been hijacked? And he'd kind of laughed and said, no, never. And now here he was. Just a few weeks later. It was the day before Thanksgiving, and his life was

on the line. I wonder if it was one of those things where pilots like, well, that would never happen to me. What are the odds? I can understand that. I mean, it was happening enough that you would know to kind of be on alert, but I would think you would also know that the odds of it happening to you were pretty low. Right. Meanwhile, in row 18 of economy class, the hijacker told flight attendant Florence Schaffner that he was ready to give his instructions. She fished a pen out of her purse.

She wrote down his demands, trying not to focus on what they might mean. But they were unsettling. The hijacker told her, I want 200 grand by 5 p.m. in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. He told her that he wanted the 200 grand in American currency.

When he finished speaking, Florence asked him, Anything else? The man told her, yes. He wanted meals for the crew, in case any of them got hungry. Well, that's awful nice of him. And then he added, No funny stuff, or I'll do the job. No fuss.

After this, we'll take a little trip. Oh, geez. Yeah, it was so nice of him. Well, you know, he does that nice gesture of like, well, I'll feed you guys, but then he says something mean right after that. That's not cool. Not cool. I will not forget this just because you bought me some eggplant parm, sir. Oh, they're not getting egg plant parm.

Come on. They're getting some crappy airport tuna sandwich. Damn right. The Hudson News tuna sandwich for everybody. That was almost the death of me. That Hudson News tuna sandwich. Well, anyone could have predicted that. Not me.

I'm not trying to victim blame, but God damn. It sounds like you are. I was a hungry boy and I like tuna sandwiches. Florence tried to stay calm, but she was terrified. Why did he want so many parachutes? What was his plan? Did he want four parachutes so that he could force other people to jump with him? Florence told the hijacker that she needed to go to the cockpit to deliver the instructions.

But he refused to let her go. She tried to reason with him. If he wanted them to follow a plan, then she needed to communicate that plan to the captain. She had to get out of her seat. She had to go to the cockpit. At that point, flight attendant Tina Mucklow came over. Tina asked the hijacker. Do you want me to take the note?

And he said no, but then he relented. He said that Florence could take the information to the cockpit on the condition that Tina take her place beside him. So, in an effort to keep the hijacker calm, the women did as they were told. Florence got up. Tina took her place. It had all happened so quickly.

They were still rising through the air as Florence made her way to the cockpit. She grabbed the backs of people's seats for left, as she worked her way, shell-shocked to the front of the plane. First-class flight attendant Alice Hancock studied Florence as she moved through the cabin. Alice saw the fear on Florence's face. Alice looked down the aisle to the back of the plane. She saw Tina sitting still as a statue next to a man in a hat and sunglasses. Alice had more seniority than Tina. She wanted to rescue her somehow. So Alice went to the back of the plane and tried to get Tina away from the man.

She said, Tina, can you help me find a deck of playing cards? Not now. Tina just sat there. Completely still. She didn't look up. She didn't speak. Finally, Alice walked away. What Alice didn't know was that Tina had seen the dynamite. She'd seen the bomb. And the sight of it had nearly made her vomit. She'd spotted the barf bag, tucked into the seat pocket in front of her, but rather than reach for it, she'd begun to pray. She prayed for the passengers. She prayed for herself. She prayed for her family. She prayed for all their families. It was the day before Thanksgiving, and they were all about to die, maybe? And for what? Tina kept praying for herself, for her family, for the passengers, for their families, for the crew, for their families. She prayed. She prayed,

until there was only one person left to pray for, the hijacker, the man who held all of their lives in his hands. As Tina finished that prayer, she knew she might die, but she also knew that she would do what it took to stay alive, and she'd do what it took to try to help everyone else stay alive, too. In the cockpit, flight attendant Florence Schaffner told the captain, co-pilot, and flight engineer everything that the hijacker had told her. her. There's an engineer there too? A flight engineer. That's right. Wow. I was surprised too.

On that short little flight? Yeah. Hmm. I wonder what the deal is with that. I don't know, man, but he was there. Maybe it was the intern or something. Oh, I'm sure a flight engineer is going to be really thrilled to hear himself described that way. No, maybe it was like, not saying, maybe, you know, for such a short flight,

maybe it was like, you know, engineer's first flight. You know, put him on the 45 minute one. so he can learn, you know. Uh-huh, uh-huh, just have a little fun. Well, on the job training, you know, put him on the 45-minute flight from Portland and Seattle. It's not even 45 minutes. It's less than 30, sir. 25 minutes.

There we go. Man. She told them the man wanted 200K in American currency. Adjusted for inflation, about $1.6 million, norm. He wanted two back parachutes, two front parachutes. And if he didn't get what he wanted, he would detonate a bomb that would blow up the whole plane. Captain William Scott communicated the information to headquarters. He waited for instructions on how to proceed.

Luckily, the president of Northwest Airlines made his decision very quickly. They would comply with the hijackers' requests. Good thinking. Yeah. The stakes couldn't have been higher. On the ground, FBI agents, as well as local police, rushed in on that Thanksgiving Eve in a mad dash to secure 200K and four parachutes. flights to Seattle were diverted. The airport was shut down, and all the while the storm that they'd been trying to beat set in. Back in row 18, the hijacker and flight attendant Tina sat side by side. He expressed concern that perhaps the radio currents on the plane might accidentally detonate the bomb. Moments later, he reached into his jacket pocket. He fished around for something. Then he pulled out a pack of cigarettes. Oh.

Raleigh filter-tip cigarettes. The hijacker asked Tina if she smoked. She told him she'd quit, but she offered to light his cigarette for him. He handed her his matchbook. It was blue. The front flap read Sky Chef. For the second time, he offered Tina a cigarette. The truth was, Tina had quit smoking because she'd read all the news reports about how it was really bad for you.

Mm-hmm. But now, sitting just one seat away from a literal bomb, I guess she figured, what the hell? If I'm going down, I'm going to enjoy a cigarette. Sure. She told the hijacker, yeah, I'll have one. As they smoked, the hijacker asked her, where are you from? She told him she grew up just outside of Philadelphia, but now she lived in an apartment in Minneapolis with a bunch of other flight attendants. Hey, shout out Minneapolis.

Yeah. And the hijacker liked it too. He responded, Minneapolis is very nice country. Very nice country? Yeah. Minneapolis is very nice country. I'm taking mental notes of all these clues, by the way. I think we're going to solve this case on this podcast. You think we'll do it in this episode real quick or you think it'll take a couple episodes? I'm thinking by the end of this series, we will have solved this for everybody. Okay.

Okay. What does Minneapolis is very nice country say to you? English is possibly not his first language. See, I wonder if that phrasing has just been a little lost to time. Very nice country? Very nice country. Yeah. Hmm.

We're going to have to look into this. Okay. My gut is telling me that's just kind of a phrase that has fallen out of favor. Like, it is unique. Mm-hmm. But to say, oh, that's nice. country up there. That seems like a Midwest country saying. I'm going to, I'm going to look this up. Okay. You're going to solve this real quick. Everybody, don't worry. No one ever Googled this.

Yeah. Which is weird. You know, the FBI has dedicated a lot of resources, a lot of internet sleuths, but give Norman two seconds on Google, or is it Bing? I don't think anyone's ever Binged it before. I, I don't know. I've never heard that phrase. Very nice. I mean, obviously, if he was referring to to an actual country, that would make sense. But the city of Minneapolis, say that's very nice country. Yeah. Hmm. I'm suspicious, Kristen.

Okay, very good. You're starting to think this is kind of a bad dude. Tina studied him. She listened to him. He spoke without an accent. He was maybe Midwestern then? She couldn't help but notice that despite the fact that he was literally, threatening to kill everyone on board.

He seemed polite. Tina tried to keep things light as she fished for information. She told the hijacker, You know, Northwest Orient has strict policies against traveling to Cuba. Can't bring home rum or cigars. Customs confiscate them in the airport. The hijacker laughed. He said, we're not going to Cuba.

You'll like where we're going. that would freak me out. It's very ominous. Well, and it sounds like you're coming with me. Oh, yeah, definitely that too. I'm not thinking, oh, you're just going to take me to a terrible town. Yeah. Are you going to make me go to St. Louis, Missouri, and stay for more than three days?

I can't do it, man, you monster! Oh, Jacksonville, Florida. Come on. Then the hijacker looked out the window. He studied the terrain. He said, We're over Tacoma now. Okay.

On the ground, officials scrambled to comply with a hijacker's request. A homicide detective was sent to Seattle First National Bank, where he collected 200K and $20 bills. They made the homicide detective do this? It was anyone who was anybody. Get out there, get moving. It's Thanksgiving Eve. I'm trying to solve murders, damn it. Like making Columbo go to the bank.

It's ridiculous. Columbo would have crushed this job, okay? I mean, I do believe Columbo would solve this. Yeah. If Columbo had been on this, we would all know who D.B. Cooper really is. There wasn't time to mark the bills. And even if there had been time, marking them might have been too big a risk to take. Instead, the FBI took photos of each bill.

They noted the serial numbers. And then they put all of it. $10,020 bills. in a bag. They took 10,000 photos? I assume they lined up all the bills together to make the photos, you know, a little faster to take. But yeah, they had it on the microfilm.

They did it up. Man, I mean, I'm very impressed by this. Sure. Man. Okay. Wow. The parachutes proved a little harder to obtain on short notice. That made everyone on the ground and in the air nervous.

To kill time, air traffic control. had instructed Captain William Scott to fly over Puget Sound, circling as they gathered everything that the hijacker had requested. Tina didn't put it together until much later. Why, they'd done that. It was so that if the man next to her decided to blow up the plane, they'd blow up over water instead of over the city of Seattle, where the falling debris would be guaranteed to kill even more people. Yep. But that circling, it was odd. It was noticeable.

This was supposed to be a 27-minute flight. I know. I'd be looking out the wind and be like, what are we doing? Uh-huh. In the cockpit, the pilot, co-pilot, and flight engineer who it was, you know, baby's first day at work, according to Norm. No, no. I'm just curious why there was a flight engineer, that's all. He had the biggest lollipop and the cutest overalls you ever did see.

A cute little pilot's outfit on. The men debated what to say to the passengers. They had to say something. They debated telling them the truth that they had been hijacked. Nope. Okay, Norm, you got to talk more about that. Why no? Well, you don't want to freak anyone out.

I mean, the dude has a bomb. You don't know what he's going to do with it. So, like, you got to keep everyone cool. And I feel like there's a very easy excuse. use for this. You just say, oh, the weather's bad. We got to circle for a little bit. Wouldn't you want to land if the weather's bad? It doesn't make any sense. You know what? This storm is so bad we're going to stay up in the storm and we're going to circle around the storm. They're above the storm. We're looking down on it and enjoy the sights and sounds while the storm rolls

through and then we'll land. Is that thunder? You love it, don't you? Maybe the storm isn't over the Puget sound. It is. It absolutely is, Norm. Or you say, uh, there's some, we got some congestion. You know, it's Thanksgiving. Busiest travel day of the year. We got some congestion at the Seattle airport. So we got a circle. That's a good excuse. I do like that. Norm, I got to tell you, it's way better than what they actually end up telling the passengers. I will say, though, so in the bonus episode where there was a hijacking, one of the flight attendants did decide to tell the first-class passengers, we are being hijacked. And when I told you that, you were like, no, no, worst idea ever. But they didn't freak out. Except that British person? Well, that British person

was an idiot. Everyone, you'll have to listen to the episode. But the hijacker specifically said he was going to kill all the British people. So the flight attendant did everyone a solid said, hey, we're being hijacked. Don't, under any circumstances, tell this guy you're British. And this one moron goes, but I am British. And I just, I wanted to punch him. even though I have no idea who this man was. Those British people just got to let you know. I do think it would be very hard to determine how do we play this, what do we tell people? But I think that back in this time period, people were a lot more used to hijackings,

and they were used to hijackings not necessarily always ending badly. And so I can see why someone would say, well, maybe we just tell everyone. I would just worry about what the criminal would do. Sure. The hijacker. Skyjacker. That nasty skyjacker. Yeah.

Get him out of the bathroom. Somebody, please. So yeah, they were debating, telling people the truth. But the co-pilot, Bill Radichick, didn't like that idea. Ooh, that's a cool ass name. Bill had seen the passengers. He was like, uh-uh. He told the captain,

I know we've picked up some good old Montana Mountain Boys, and they're pretty good-sized, and they're sitting up in first class. They're on their second and third martinis. We do not need them to look at each other and say, hey, let's go back and get a hijacker. Yeah. One of the passengers had a cowboy hat. That's right. How do you remember that?

It was a Stetson hat. Yes. Oh, you do remember some details. Captain William Scott must not have been entirely convinced. Or maybe he wanted to give the hijacker a greater sense of control. because he called back to Tina on the interphone, and he asked Tina to ask the hijacker if he would like for them to let the passengers know

that they were being hijacked. The hijacker said no, so they didn't. But they still had to tell the passengers something. Norm, do you remember what they told them? I don't actually remember. Okay. Co-pilot Bill got on the intercom and he made the following announcement.

Ladies and gentlemen, there's been a slight mechanical problem. We've been asked to circle Seattle to burn off excess fuel. What? The look on your face is the look that all the passengers shared that day. That was a weird excuse. Very unsettling, actually. Yeah, if I was currently in the air and I heard, oh, the plane has a mechanical problem, I'd be like, Oh, it's a slight one.

Don't worry about a slight mechanical problem. We've been asked to circle Seattle to burn off excess fuel. Even the phrase burning off fuel just sounds dangerous to me. You know what it sounds like? What? It sounds like we're about to explode is what it sounds like. We've got to burn off this excess fuel. I mean, it sounds.

Yeah, it sounds like we got to drop weight or this plane's going down. I think my excuse of it's storming right now. So we're going to chill up here. It's too dangerous to land. It's too dangerous to land. And plus, I love storms. And I love the Puget Sound. But I think the best excuse is, busiest travel day of the year.

We got some congestion at the airport. So we just got to wait for our clearance to land, basically. Sure. As they circled over the Puget Sound, the storm gathered steam. Loud claps of thunder startled the passengers. Bright flashes of lightning, unnerved, them. Something was up. What the hell was going on? Why would anyone choose not to land in this weather? One man, probably one of the big Montana boys the co-pilot had been worried about, came up to flight

attendant Tina Mucklow mad as hell. It's the cowboy hat boy. He wanted to know what exactly was wrong with the plane. Why did they need to burn off fuel? What was actually happening? As Tina sat there, unable to truthfully answer the man's questions, the hijacker, still in his sunglasses, still wearing his hat, sat there smirking. Eventually, that smirk faded. Finally, he told the man, go back to your seat, and the man did.

Imagine if cowboy was just like, I know you ain't talking to me, brother, and socked him. I thought about that. Yeah, imagine if he gave it back to him. He was like, I know you're not talking to me. I thought a lot about the dynamics of this interaction. It's more complicated because other passengers who were there remember it differently. So this is kind of the version that I'm going with.

Yeah. But it is interesting. Here's this big cowboy. And he's going off on this 22-year-old young woman. I can see how another man saying, go back and sit down. it could be taken as, oh, this is embarrassing. I was just yelling at this young woman. And I think that's maybe how the cowboy took it.

But you're right. I mean, he could have gotten into a fist fight with a hijacker, and wouldn't that have been interesting? Yeah, you just imagine, like, what would have happened if he, like, picked a fight with D.B. Cooper. Yeah. It was just the two of them again. Tina and the hijacker.

As soon as the cowboy was out of earshot, The hijacker said, if that's a sky marshal, I don't want any more of that. Tina told him the unfortunate truth. There weren't any sky marshals on board that day. I wonder how they choose which flights are going to get on. Well, so at that time, God, security was so nuts. I'm hesitant to even call it security. But hijackings had become so common that airlines were kind of like, well, we should probably do something.

And so I believe that had been a suggestion by President Nixon to have sky marshals on some flights. But it's kind of like, you either got to go all in. Can't do just a tip. I'm sorry, that's a stupid joke. I'm not a 12-year-old boy, I swear. Nixon would have found it funny. Thank you. You know, that's what this podcast is really all about is making President Nixon chuckle.

Oh, that's very funny, Kristen. I know you chuckle at my Nixon impression. I do really. It's so weird, but I do love your Nixon impression. It's really bad. It's timely, though. It's so timely. I have to tell people, what? Your and my hairstylist.

Uh-huh. Sarah, shout out Sarah. She thought I'm a decent singer. My God. I should have never told you. I should have never told you. I was so honored to hear that. Everyone, as I was finishing up my appointment,

the other day, Sarah did say, oh, you know, listening to the podcast, you know, Norm's not a bad singer. And I was like, hmm, I let it slip. And boy, you've just been waiting to share it on the podcast. A compliment for Norman. I mean, not just any compliment, a compliment about my singing,

which, let me tell you a story. Senior year of college, me and the boys were going to form a rock band. You did form a rock band. Well, we didn't really perform anywhere. But anyway, I was on the drums. My buddy Stephen was on guitar, buddy Kevin was bass guitar, but we were having trouble finding a singer. And so we would kind of rotate like who was going to sing.

And after my turn of singing, I came inside and my mom goes, oh, who was singing out there? And I was like, oh, it was me. I was singing. He goes, oh, it was awful. You know, in a way she was preparing you for content creation, where people will just destroy your soul. with a single comment. I mean, maybe that's what she was doing. So that ended my singing dreams.

Yeah. Yeah. But Sarah has reignited them. You know, yeah, I'm thinking, you know, maybe I take a shot at American Idol. Is that show still on? I have no idea. I don't think it is. You know, my idea was, would you like to sing a little thank you to Sarah?

Thank you, Sarah. Oh, wow. For the compliment. Thank you. Thank you. May I move on or do you have more? Let's move on. Okay.

Joe, we can't cut any of that. Just so we're clear, we won't be cutting it. Then, it was time for the hijacker to reveal the next phase of his plan. To get Norman Caruso to stop singing. Okay. All right. He told Tina that as soon as they landed, he wanted a fuel truck waiting for them. The plane needed to be refueled right away.

He wanted the car carrying the randum. money and parachutes to be parked right where he could see it. He told Tina that he wanted her to be the one to get the ransom money and bring it on the plane. But Tina was kind of concerned. 200 grand in cash? She worried it would be too heavy for her. But the hijacker wasn't bothered.

He told her, you'll manage. Wow. Uh-huh. He told her that once the ransom money was on board, he'd let the passengers off the plane. At that point, he'd need her. to do the next part of her mission. He needed her to get the parachutes and the meals and bring them on board. Tina listened carefully.

He told her that he had caffeine pills in his pocket. He didn't want the crew to get sleepy. Guess he didn't see that episode of Saved by the Bell. Hey. Hey. A classic. Once he was done giving all the instructions, Tina tried to get some information out of the hijacker. She asked him,

So, where are you from? He scoffed. Nice try. Did he say nice try? No, but that was his vibe, Norm. Come on. He's still wearing sunglasses at night. I do got to say, he's pretty cool, this D.B. Cooper guy.

You know. He's real calm and cool. He does have this reputation of everybody kind of loves him. It's a folk hero thing. I think doing this episode where we're just talking about the crime itself, I really, really feel for the crew, especially Tina. Oh, yeah.

Well, it's terrifying. Yeah, but it's amazing to me. Like, you read these stories from the 1970s, and it is incredible. If people are not physically harmed, it's like it was treated as if nothing happened to them. I mean, she ended up back at work like a month later. Yeah.

This horribly traumatic event. Yeah. Yeah, I just can't imagine. being this young and trying to hold it together and then later being asked questions like, well, were you involved? Were you in love with him? I mean, bullshit.

Yeah, that does suck. It always, like, shocked me how well executed it was. Yes, I think that's, when people talk about loving this story, and that was me like a week ago, you do kind of have to love that, Okay, he's not being verbally abusive to people. Nope. He's not being over the top scary.

And that may sound ridiculous, but go listen to the bonus episode if you want to hear an over-the-top scary hijacker. Yeah, that guy was nuts. But D.B. Cooper, I think the reason he is so intriguing to people is because he's going to say some things here. And we're going to go into way more detail in next week's episode. but he's going to say some things that reveal a stunning amount of knowledge about this aircraft, about flying, really about every step of this process. Yeah. And you just can't help but wonder who the hell is this guy. What is his story? Exactly. Tina asked him, do you have a grudge against Northwest?

And the hijacker replied, I don't have a grudge against your airline miss. I just have a grudge. Hmm. What does that mean? What do you think it means? He has a grudge. Well, he wants money. Yeah, I don't know.

What does he have a grudge about? Okay, see, you and I are going totally opposite directions. Well, which way are you going? Okay, you're going the normal way. Nothing wrong with that. Oh. No, I mean, a lot of people are like, okay, what was his grudge? This man had a grudge.

He had a grudge. What was it? and I feel like, I feel very strongly. This is just a cool thing to say. She asks him, do you have a grudge against Northwest? He says, I don't have a grudge against your airline, miss. I just have a grudge. To me, that is just a cool thing to say.

And I'm saying that because she asked this question, this leading question. and I think he's using some of her own words and we're making too much of it if we focus on that. To me, what I'm focusing on is this is a cool reply, which does convey a level of intelligence, a level of quick thinking. And that's what I focus on. I don't think this guy really has a grudge that needs to be investigated. Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I guess my mind immediately went to like, well, he wants a bunch of money, so he's like mad about his situation in life or, you know, he's dealt the wrong hand. And that's what his grudge is. Sure. Maybe. Yeah. But your theory of he's just really freaking cool is also holding up here.

He's just saying a cool thing. Yeah. And he's using the premise of her question. And I think when you're just, using the premise of someone else's question, we don't need to infer a whole lot about that. Like, if I ask you, Norm, why are you so obsessed with cottage cheese? I would say, I'm not obsessed with cottage cheese. I'm just obsessed. Okay. I guess my point is like anything, it would be like if people then heard that, I'm not obsessed with cottage cheese. I'm just obsessed. And then people were like, maybe he's kind of obsessed with cottage cheese though what is he obsessed with and when really he's just responding to my question anyway

I've made my point I'm beating it to death now and I'm bringing up cottage cheese which is not necessary for anyone no that's disgusting you seem a little defensive you seem like you're obsessed with cottage cheese I'm very against cottage cheese then why do you keep grabbing my thighs no minutes passed rain fell thunder clapped. Lightning flashed. Then the hijacker asked Tina a question, a question she really didn't want to answer. He asked her, what time is it? She told him the truth. It was after five. In fact, it was way past five. They were way past the deadline he'd set when he'd made his demands. Until that point, the hijacker had seemed cool, calm. But now he wasn't. She studied his face. He looked panicked. He said,

They're not going to take me alive. Tina got on the inner phone with the cockpit. She asked them why they hadn't landed yet. They told her that the parachutes were the holdup. It was the front parachutes. They'd had trouble getting them, but they were on their way. Did the hijacker want them to land without them? Tina relayed the question to the hijacker, and the hijacker responded, Yes, but almost as soon as he said that, the cockpit got word that, in fact, the front shoots had arrived. Oh, go on. No, go ahead. I figured you'll talk about where they came from and all that.

Actually, in this episode, I'm not planning to do a ton of that. Okay. One thing I do want to throw in that I didn't have in here was at some point they had mentioned where they were getting those shoots from. Mm-hmm. And this hijacker said correct. that's only a 20-minute drive or a 25-minute drive from the airport. It should be here by now. Okay.

Yeah. So again, demonstrating a lot of knowledge. He knows the area. And he specifically knew where they would probably have to go for those parachutes. Yeah. He knew how long it would take them. He's going to know, it sounds weird to say intimate details, but intimate details about how long it should take to refuel this plane.

Mm-hmm. If they try any funny business, he's going to know. They had everything they needed to land. By that point, they'd been flying for nearly three and a half hours. Oh, my God. Battling the storm and fearing that the man in Roe 18 would make good on his threats. I just keep thinking about what it would be like to be a passenger on this flight. You have a 25-minute flight and you're in the air for three and a half hours.

I will say one woman said, something along the lines of, we are either on the wrong plane or we have been hijacked. Mm-hmm. So, again, the passengers knew something was up. Yeah. And also they were grumpy as hell. This sucked. That night, they landed at the Seattle airport.

Snipers were positioned out of sight as the plane landed. They were still in so much danger, arguably the most danger. But the passengers didn't know that. They didn't know that they'd been hijacked. All they knew was that they were ready. Ready to leave, ready to go home to their families. But, oh my God, what the hell? Why wasn't the crew letting them stand up?

Why weren't they opening the damn door? Oh, oh, oh, my God. Oh, what is that? Is that a fuel truck? One of the men on board, damn near lost it. He screamed, They care more about the fucking gas than they do about the passengers.

It was all too much. People are getting antsy. At one point, a woman who'd been sitting three rows in front of the hijacker stood and looked behind her. She saw the man who'd been sitting in row 18 come out of the bathroom. He had on sunglasses. Why was he wearing sunglasses? Excellent question.

Even weirder, why was he holding his briefcase like it was a pizza box? The woman found it odd, but her. Her main priority was the same as everyone else's main priority. She wanted off the damn plane. So D.B. Cooper went to the bathroom? He was just like you and me. Sorry. Just saying you can get some DNA in there.

Collect some piss. Well, you're going to be collected piss from a lot of people. I mean, I think once you throw it all together in that plane bucket, you know, I don't know that they can really extract it. We're going to separate out all the DNA. DNA in here. Oh, gross. This is disgusting. Also, it's 1971. I know, I know. But it wasn't time to get off the plane. Not for the passengers anyway. The hijacker told Tina to get the money. So she pushed ahead of the passengers. She got to the front exit door. She went down the stairs to the tarmac. Rain poured down on her. She went straight to a man who was waiting for her with the bag of money.

Tina said something to him. She said a lot of things to him. but none of it made sense. The man worried for her. She seemed to be in shock. He handed her the money, all 200 grand of it. Tina grabbed it. It weighed 21 pounds. It's a lot lighter than I thought it would be.

Me too, actually. But I don't blame Tina for being like, I don't know if I'm going to lift this. Because who knows what 200 grand in cash feels like? I have no idea. I'm not Scrooge McDuck. I don't know. I mean, whenever I would watch Squid Game, and obviously, yeah, horrible, horrible stuff going on in Squid Game, but I did always think as they added money to the piggy bank when people died, I was like, ooh, hope those cables can support all that money.

This boy probably weighs a lot. What if that was the way they eliminated other contestants, whoever's under this thing when it falls, you're done. Say, all right, scoched the left a little bit, right on that red X. And really, that'd be very cartoonishly evil. Kristen? Yes, it would. Tina climbed back up the slick steps, carrying the money. Once she got on board, she let the bag fall to the floor. She dragged it behind her, back to the hijacker. The hijacker looked at the bag. He was pissed. He'd specifically asked for a backpack full of money. Instead, they'd given him a bag, a bag that had an open mouth. Uh-oh. He actually said

knapsack, but I've always hated the word knapsack, so I changed it. Why don't you like the word knapsack? I just hate it. I don't know. Does it make you think of something? It just feels too old-fashioned and weird to me. Oh, okay. Interesting. Do you imagine a dollar bill sign on the side? I kind of do. It does feel like they really, and I imagine it being burlap. I don't know why.

Of course it's burlap. Okay. All right. Tina made another try at Levity. She said, there's a lot of cash in that bag. Can I have some? Hey, Tina, hey, I'll be here all night. Hey, I'm being hijacked there. The hijacker had to know she was joking, but he reached into the bag, pulled out some money, and held it out to her. What? Tina shook her head.

He said, sorry, sir, no tips. Northwest Orient policy. Oh. I think that's pretty cute. That's a great response. That's pretty funny. Yeah. She asked him about the other passengers.

could he let them go now? The hijacker said, yes. And with that, it was time to debaward. The passengers, in case I haven't stressed this enough, were pissed off as they barged off the plane. The plane they had no idea had been hijacked. But the three flight attendants, consummate professionals, women who had been trained in life-saving procedures

and also makeup application and weight management, helped them all off the plane, and told each of them, Their grumpy asses, happy Thanksgiving. Oh, happy Thanksgiving. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Once the passengers were off the plane, the hijacker told Tina to go get the parachutes. Again, she tried to talk her way out of it. She told him she wasn't strong enough to bring all those parachutes on board. And once again, he was unbothered. He said, they aren't that heavy. You shouldn't have any trouble. So he knows how much parachute ways.

Tina made her way to the front egg. exit. But then, oh my God, oh my God, a passenger had just come back on the plane. Holy! The man said, I forgot my briefcase. Tina was like, oh my God. She marched back to the dude's seat, grabbed the damn briefcase, was like, here, take it, and hustled him off the plane. That had been close. If the hijacker had mistaken the man for an FBI agent, it could have been a disaster. Yeah, yeah, I didn't even think about that. I'm just feeling bad for that guy. He's probably all have all these thoughts and said, did I do something wrong? I'd be thinking about that for days. No, this is another interesting part that I've cut from the

script, but trying to figure out how to handle this was so tough. The FBI wanted to go in guns blazing, but just a few weeks prior to this, they had done exactly that. A plane had been hijacked, and the pilot kept telling them, please do not. come near us. Just let us refuel, kind of saying, hey, I think this hijacker is going to calm down. If we can just get flying again, please stay away. And the FBI agents kept telling him, no, we will not let you refuel. We will not let you refuel. And one of the final things that pilot said to them was, you are risking lives. You are risking lives by doing this. And with that, the FBI agents shot out the plane's tires,

the hijacker panicked, and the hijacker shot that pilot, shot his wife, and shot himself. Oh, my God. The context around this is really wild. You had 10 days earlier, that hijacker who tried to do what D.B. Cooper is about to do.

Paul Sini. You also, I didn't want to say that asshole's name, but sure, whatever. And then you also had this other disastrous intervention where the FBI, I'm sure they thought they were doing the right thing, but I think in these cases, you almost have to defer to the people who are there with the hijacker. I feel like they're going to have the best read on the person's mental state. Absolutely. Gosh, that's horrible.

It is. It is. That's a horrible story. And yet, I told it to you anyway. Well, no, that's important to know. Yeah. Yeah. Tina got off the plane to grab the parachutes. In the meantime, the hijacker agreed to let the other flight attendants. Florence Schaffner and Alice Hancock devoured the plane as well.

But then there was this weird moment where Alice was like, okay, but could I get my purse? And he said, sure, but she was terrified. She inched closer to him. She needed to get past him to get to her purse. Finally, the hijacker told her, I'm not going to bite you. Come on, lady, get your purse and get off the plane. Yeah, so Alice got her purse.

And then it was Florence's turn. She wanted her purse, too. The hijacker seemed happy now. He was holding the money, looking at it, smiling. He asked Florence to hold it, feel the weight of it. She did. She gave it back to him. And then he reached into his pants pocket,

and he pulled out $19. It was the change she'd given him at the start of the flight for his bourbon and seven up. He offered it to her. Then he offered it to Alice. Both of them said no. Sorry, no tips. He is feeling good.

With that, Alice and Florence got off the plane. But Tina had to stay behind. The hijacker demanded it. Gosh, I'm feeling really bad for Tina. You have to think, like, Florence was the one originally involved in this. Yeah. And then they pulled the old switcheroo.

Yeah. And now Tina's stuck with this enormous burden. Yeah. Well, that sucks. And she's brand new to the job. Well, and I should say Florence was only 23. I mean, I think this is what... A grizzled veteran of the airline industry.

No, I think this is what is so fascinating to me about these flight attendants and this period of time where they are expected to be everything for everyone to do everything. They're getting treated as sex objects. And yet in these situations where it's life or death, these women are the ones who are holding it all together. Yeah. They're the ones that have to keep the hijacker like calm. Right.

That's huge. While also wearing hot pants and being told, you're too chubby to do this job. Yeah. Give me a break. I was going to tell you something else. Shit, what was it going to be? Norman, I heard you singing the other day.

I was not going to tell you that. I was not going to tell you. Have you thought about recording an album? Oh, oh, another thing that I cut, but now I'm saying it. Why did I even bother cutting this stuff? You mentioned Tina staying behind and that pressure that put on her. Yeah. There was an effort to get Tina out of there, but of course, you know,

The hijacker wouldn't allow that. If they had gotten Tina out, which it did seem for a moment like that was going to happen. If they had gotten her out, the plan was that the guys in the cockpit were going to exit through the windshield of the cockpit using a rope they had in there. And so basically, by the time D.B. Cooper would have figured out what was happening, there would be no one on board the plane. And then they could do whatever. They could take their Tommy guns and just fill the plane full of bullets. But isn't that incredible to think of how close that came to happening? Yeah.

Yeah. But I think this hijacker knew it's imperative that I keep someone with me. I have to have a hostage. Yeah. So Alice and Florence got off the plane. Tina stayed behind. And then the hijackers mood changed. It was taking too long to refuel the plane.

And again, why had they put 200K in an open bag when he had specifically requested it be put in a backpack or knapsack if you're weird? He grabbed one of the parachutes. He pulled the rip cord. The shoot burst open. It filled the cabin. He pulled out a pocket knife and cut the shoot from its container. He tried stuffing the money into that container,

but the container was too small for all those bills. Working quickly, he cut parts of the parachute, wrapped them around the open bag and tied it up so that the bag closed. He created a strap for it. Then he gave Tina the next part of the plan. And in the process, he revealed a startling amount of knowledge about flying. He told her, we're going to Mexico City, or any place in Mexico. Non-stop, gear down, flaps down.

You can trim the flaps to 15. You can stop anywhere in Mexico to refuel, but nowhere in the United States. The aft door must be open and the stairs down. the altitude under 10,000 feet. They know they can't go over that. Cabin lights out and everyone is to be forward of the first-class curtain. Tina got on the inner phone to relay the message to the cockpit. But the boys in the cockpit were at a loss.

They were concerned about fuel. They didn't have enough to make it all the way to Mexico. They'd need to stop in Reno. 10,000 feet, okay, they could do that, no problem. But that was a pretty impressive request. It revealed that the hijacker likely, knew that at 10,000 feet, the cabin wouldn't be pressurized. That meant that if he opened a door, he wouldn't be sucked out.

Yeah. But that stair thing? The pilots didn't know if they could even fly the plane with the stairs down. They were pretty sure it couldn't be done. They radioed to some other flight engineers. And everyone agreed. No, it can't be done. What about the engineer on there?

See, maybe he was a little intern, Kristen. He popped the lollipop out of his mouth, said, nope, can't do it. Do it! Tina relayed that to the hijacker. It can't be done. And the hijacker said, yes, it can. But the cockpit can put it down after they get airborne. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, this guy has a wealth of knowledge on planes. He knows more. I don't want to say more. But on this specific issue, he knows more than the people flying the plane and more than the people who they are in radio communication with. Yeah. Just to be safe, officials called experts from Boeing. They asked them, can a Boeing 727 fly with the stairs down? Is that possible?

And the engineers gave a very surprising and I think very revealing answer that in fact the Boeing 727 can be flown with the stairs down and in fact had been flown with the stairs down many times by the CIA in Vietnam. Ah, okay. The guys in the cockpit wondered who the hell they were dealing with. And just then, the interphone rang. This time it wasn't Tina talking. It was the hijacker.

And he was yelling. Let's get this show on the road. He grabbed the intercom. As they prepared to take off, Tina stood in the rear of the plane. She handed the hijacker instructions on how to use the parachutes. And he said, I don't need. that. I mean, the guy is talking about all this crap about planes.

It's like, yeah. Also, he asked for two front parachutes and two back parachutes. Uh-huh. And it's like, okay, he's not interested in taking anyone with him. It's in case one fails. He has a backup shoot, right? I don't know. Hmm.

Makes sense to me. I mean, he caught one of them already, so I guess he can use that. Uh-huh. Maybe he anticipated he'd have to fashion himself a backpack. Yeah, it's, it is interesting, and we'll get into more next week about maybe he had a different plan going into this. Or maybe it is what you're saying of there's just some backups built in here. And you have to wonder if he was thinking, are they going, is the FBI or whoever going to give me dud parachutes on purpose? Right.

And we'll discuss that too. Okay. Because there is a dud parachute here. Oh, may I use the bathroom? Yes. Thank you. I felt like I was in class. I'd ask the teacher.

I was like, what? Thank you for letting me use the bathroom, Kristen. You're welcome. That's your one time today. Hope you used it wisely. Well, I sure did. I'll be doing a DNA test. You can collect plenty of DNA from that bathroom trip.

That's enough. That's enough. That's enough. It's the holidays. Don't do this to people. So she offered him the parachute instructions. He said, I don't need that. And with that, Tina made her case for herself.

Did he still need her? Could she go up to the cockpit now? The hijacker said no. She couldn't leave. He needed her help releasing the stairs. He didn't know how to do it. Tina was terrified by what he was proposing. She was afraid that if what he was saying was true,

that he wanted her to help lower the stairs mid-flight, that she might get sucked out of the plane and die, sucked out into the stormy night. A very valid fear to have. She asked if she could at least tie herself to something in the cabin. Maybe she could use the escape rope from the cockpit. But the hijacker refused to let her go to the cockpit. He didn't want her going up there and he didn't want any of them coming to the back of the plane.

Tina asked if she could cut part of the parachute so that she could use that to secure herself to the plane. The hijacker seemed almost exasperated. by her requests. Finally, he said, never mind. And he asked her to show him how to lower the stairs. He'd do it himself. He told her to cut the lights. He was ready. He asked her why they weren't moving. She interphoned the cockpit and gave him an answer. The pilots are filing their flight plan right now. But the hijacker wasn't having it. He said, they can do that on the radio once we get up. She asked him about the bomb. What was he going to? to do with it. And he said, take it with me or disarm it. And with that, he instructed her to go to the

cockpit. She could stay there. She'd done everything she needed to do. But he wanted her to close the curtain that divided economy class from first class on her way. Tina agreed to do as she was told. But before she did, she made one last request, will you please, please take the bomb with you? By that point, they were up in the air. She didn't wait for a response. He was busy messing with the parachutes. Tina rushed toward the cockpit. She reached the end of first class.

The curtain. She began to close it behind her, but before she did, she turned back for one last look. She watched the hijacker tie the money bag to his body. She kept moving, past first class, up to the cockpit. The men let her in. They were together now. Flight attendant.

Tina Mucklow, Captain William Scott, co-pilot Bill Radichick, and flight engineer Harold Anderson, who Norman has disrespected greatly. No, no, no, I'm just... They locked the cockpit door. For a moment, they all looked at one another in amazement. They weren't safe, not by a long shot. There was still a chance, a frighteningly large chance that they all might die. But this?

The fact that they were together, a lot of. locked door away from the hijacker, felt big. It gave them a little hope that they just might survive. They flew south, through the rain, through the storms, into the night, wondering all the while what was going on in the back of the plane. Then they noticed a change in their controls. A light came on indicating that the stairs had been lowered. Copilot Bill got on the intercom. He said, can you hear me? Is there anything we can do for you? He was testing to see if they were alone. The hijacker answered using the inner phone. No. Moments later, Bill tried again. Everything okay back there? Again, a response. Everything's okay. Another notification went off. Osolations in the cabin.

The crew took the oscillations to mean that the hijacker was doing something with the stairs. Then the pressure gauge dropped. Bill used the intercom again. Sir? This time there was no response. He tried again. Sir? They kept flying, wondering if he was gone, wondering if he'd taken the bomb with him, and if he hadn't, whether he'd disarmed it. As they approached Reno, Tina got on the intercom. She said, sir, we're going to land now. Please put up the stairs. We're going to land anyway, but the aircraft may be structurally damaged. We may not be able to take off after we've landed. No response. He's gone, then. They landed in Reno, with the stairs down.

The sound was awful. All that metal screeched and scraped and clanked on the runway. Yeah. When the plane came to a stop, the pilot unlocked the cockpit door. He called out. Sir? He got up. The man who told him.

his daughter's classmates that he'd never been hijacked just a few weeks ago, made his way through first class, jumpy, terrified that he still might not make it. He pulled back the first class curtain. He looked around. Sir? Sir? No one. The hijacker. That nondescript hijacker was gone. Soon, investigators swooped in. They quickly discovered that everything was gone. The hijacker, the ransom money, the bomb. It was gone. The only thing he left behind was a,

huh, clip-on tie. They were safe. Tina and the rest of the crew got off the plane. She and co-pilot Bill were put in the backseat of an FBI car. And it was there, finally, that Tina broke down. She'd kept it together, for hours, fearing for her life and the lives of so many others. But now, Tina sobbed like she'd never sobbed before.

Bill sat beside her, trying to console her. It's okay, he said. It's okay. It's over. And in one sense, it was. The man who would become known as D.B. Cooper had done what he'd set out to do. He'd hijacked a plane. He'd gotten ransom money.

and he'd parachuted out of that plane with the ransom money in tow. His work was done. But the investigation into who he was and where he was was just beginning. In next week's episode, the investigation into D.B. Cooper begins.

And you know what? I think they're going to find him. I've never actually gone to far in this story. I'm pretty sure they're going to find him. Now, we are going to figure out who this man is. Yeah, just once you get done with that Google search, I think. I'm going to do a little bit of Googling to look into this. But I think by the end of Part 3, we will both each make an accusation about who D.B. Cooper is. And we will be sued and it'll be the end of the podcast.

But what a glorious way to go out. Am I right? Someone needs to look into this flight engineer. Norman. Norman. Okay, okay. Shout out to Harold Anderson, the flight engineer. Oh, Norm feels bad.

I apologize. Maybe I was being a little too harsh on. Harold Norm Hart gets Harold I will send him a giant novelty Lollipop

as an apology Norm I don't mean to excite you for the next episode but that clip on tie I mentioned Yeah It's one of the few

pieces of evidence On this guy Yep came from J.C. Penny I know It came from J.C. Penny Oh my goodness He was a J.C. Pennyman

Has anyone talked to Mr. James Cashpenny. They should have. Was he still alive in 71? I believe he was. Yeah. I believe he was. Let me double check that.

I'm pretty sure he was. And he kind of fits the description of this hijacker. Oh, he died in 1971. We have just cleared him as a suspect. We looked into it. James Cash Penny died in February of 1971. I, for somebody I thought it was 73. but misremembering.

So there you go. That's part one of D.B. Cooper. Wow. Do you think it was an Arizona gene company tie, clip-on tie? It was not. It was not. Excellent retelling, Kristen. Thank you.

The suspense was killing me. And I've heard this story many times. That was very, very well told. Well, so there are a lot of great sources on this story. unfortunately a lot of them do kind of conflict with one another. I ended up really going with the book Skyjacked. So I'll shout it out in the show notes. But that's a really fun read too if you're wanting to dive into this case.

Unfortunately, it is titled Skyjack. And we have just defined that word as jerking off in an airplane bathroom. Apologies to the author of that book. I mean, words change over time. Sure. So, like, sometimes you've got to go back and update some stuff. Like sky fingering right now, we all know, means to eat finger sandwiches on an airplane. But it might mean something dirty a year from now.

It might. It might. Uh-huh. Well, it's like your parents call each other a muffin. Stop it. Oh, my God. As a term of endearment. But we all know what a muffin is.

Everyone. Don't we? I don't know that I've ever told that on the podcast. Really? Parents call each other muffin. My sister and I have tried for, I'm going to say, 20 years now, maybe more than 20 years to get them to stop calling each other muffin. We have told them explicitly, it means vagina. You are calling each other vagina.

Somehow it hasn't stopped them. We're just going to call each other muffin even harder now. They tried to act like we were gross and making stuff up, which is their go-to move anytime some slang comes along that they don't understand. But then famously, Betty White made a joke about her dusty muffin on S&L. And so then my parents were, you know, slapped in the face with the harsh reality that, in fact, everyone knows that muffin means vagina. Betty White finally convinced them, huh? Yeah, but they still keep doing it. Yeah, well, now it's just a joke to them.

It's fun. They like making their daughters uncomfortable a little bit. Which is weird because I don't like making them uncomfortable at all. Really? I don't believe that for a second. Well, Kristen, should we wrap up this episode? Let's do it. Kristen, you know what they say about history hosts? We always cite our sources.

That's right. For this episode, I got my information from the book, Skyjack. The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Jeffrey Gray. The FBI files, the documentary, the mystery of D.B. Cooper, as well as reporting from Rolling Stone and History.com. Skyjack, how to get off while taking off. Norman. Plus more check than show. For a full list of our sources, and for Norm's definition of skyjacking. That's all for this episode.

Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, R-slash-old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old-Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram, I am at Kristen Pitts Caruso and he is at Gaming Historian.

And until next time, Tootulu, Tata, and Cheerio. Bye. Goodbye. Bye.