An Old Timey Podcast - 84: Top 10 DB Cooper Suspects (Part 3)

Episode Date: December 17, 2025

Welcome to the first annual D.B. Cooper Suspect Awards! In this very real award show, we celebrate a handful of the thin-lipped, military-trained sky divers who *might* be responsible for the only unsolved airplane hijacking in United States history. Plus: Mistakes of Shame! Kristin mispronounced the name of D.B. Cooper suspect Robert Rackstraw. She called him Robert Rackshaw. As punishment, Kristin will be banned from podcasting for the remainder of 2025.Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: “As new evidence upends D.B. Cooper case, the (un)usual suspects continue to fuel the legend,” by Douglas Perry for The Oregonian“Who were the D.B. Cooper suspects? From Rob Rackstraw to Dick Briggs,” by Molli Mitchell for Newsweek“Five most likely suspects behind iconic D.B. Cooper mystery as net closes in on identifying him,” by Luke Kenton for The Daily Mail“Suspects in the D.B. Cooper skyjacking – sketches, pictures and comparisons,” by Bruce A. Smith for The Mountain News“D.B. Cooper letter, newly released by FBI, offers startling coded clue that might reveal skyjacker,” by Douglas Perry for The Oregonian“‘Charming’ D.B. Cooper suspect Sheridan Peterson dies at 94, spent years dedicated to political causes,” by Douglas Perry for The OregonianThe book, “Skyjack: The Hunt for D.B. Cooper,” by Geoffrey GrayThe documentary, “The Mystery of DB Cooper”“Who was the mysterious hijacker D.B. Cooper?” by Ella Morton for History.com“D.B. Cooper Hijacking, FBI.gov“The missing piece of the D.B. Cooper story,” by Andrea Marks for Rolling Stone“Scientists say they may have new evidence in the D.B. Cooper case,” by Chris Ingalls for USA TodayAre you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

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Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm Norman Caruso. And on this episode, we're pleased to present the first annual D.B. Cooper Suspect Awards. Woo! Whoa! Yes! First annual, are we going to do this every year? No, but, you know, they always say first annual just to start award shows off strong. Right, right. You know, It also sets the expectation that there will definitely be future awards. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh-huh. So you shouldn't ignore this because, you know, it's kind of momentous. Mm-hmm. That's like when they release the Doug movie and they called it Doug's first movie. New rule on this podcast. What? New rule. It's okay.

You got away with it in 2025. We'll let it slide. 2026. What? You are not allowed to bring up Doug. What? During my stories. Well, I'm going right to the government with this.

censorship. Oh, God. It's alive and well, folks. Uh-huh. Yeah. Do you have a Patreon plug for us, sir? I do. Kristen, guess what?

What? It's history, ho, ho, ho month here at an old-timey podcast. I thought I smelled something. And what that means is, at the $10 pig butter investor tier, don't look at the camera like that, at the $10 pig butter investor tier, it is 50% off your first month. Tis the season. On that tier, you're going to. to get bonus episodes, a sign card and stickers, early ad-free video episodes, access to our monthly

trivia parties, which, when this episode drops, we are having trivia, holiday trivia, baby. Wow. You do have to sign up. It is a good time. I promise trivia is a fun time. It is. Last month, Kristen was absolutely humiliated. You know, we don't need to talk about that.

I came in second. She came in second in her own trivia. That first place was stolen from me by a vegetarian of all people. We respect the hell out of them, folks. Along with trivia, you also get 10% off all merch and add free episodes of Kristen's old podcast. Let's go to court. So please head on over to patreon.com slash old-timey podcast.

That deal, history ho-ho-ho month expires at the end of the year. So get on over there right now. Right this minute. And with that, Kristen, I'm ready for the first annual D.B. Cooper's suspect awards. I am so excited. But first, I got to do previously on. Oh, you're going to sass me for pressing buttons over here? Well, it depends.

Are you going to take your sweet time? Or are you going to get to stepping? Oh, you ready? Yeah. Previously, on an old-timey podcast. On Thanksgiving Eve, 1971, a nondescript man boarded a plane headed to Seattle. On board, he alerted flight attendants that he had a bomb. And then he made his demands.

200k in cash, plus four parachutes. That night, he parachuted into the night's sky with the ransom money in tow. But where did he land? And who was he? The FBI launched their investigation. They created sketches based on eyewitness accounts. They searched the plane. They found two hairs and lost them. They found eight cigarette butts and lost those two. They found the hijackers clip-on necktie. it was a thin, inexpensive number from J.C. Penny. They used math and science to determine where approximately the hijacker had landed. But there are many searches for the man known as D.B. Cooper all turned out fruitless. Then in 1980, nine years after the hijacking, an eight-year-old boy found nearly six grand of the ransom money

lodged into a sandbar on the Columbia River, not too far from Vancouver. Washington, a location about 40 miles south of where investigators thought D.B. Cooper had landed. How did the money get there? When did it arrive at that spot? Had they been wrong about where he'd landed? Did they even know anything at all? What a rude question, because yes, you butthole, they did have a sense of who he was. Based on eyewitness accounts, they were looking for a man in his mid-40s, between 5'8 and 6 feet tall. He'd be thin and athletic, with a slightly receding hairline. He had no discernible accent, and while some witnesses said he was white, others said he had a darker, more olive skin tone. He smoked cheap cigarettes. He drank bourbon. He wore clothing that

was a little out of style, and based on that necktie, pretty cheap. But it was from J.C. Penny. He demonstrated an astonishing amount of knowledge about the Boeing 727 aircraft. He knew things that the pilots hadn't known. And based on the parachute he used, he likely learned how to parachute in the military. In other words, they were looking for an intelligent, calm under pressure man who'd been desperate for money. Over the years, several viable suspects emerged, but no one was ever charged. And in 2016, the FBI announced that they'd suspended their 45-year investigation into D.B. Cooper. They said something about focusing on more urgent priorities.

But you know who doesn't have any urgent priorities? Me! And you, dear history hoes! So, for the remainder of this week's episode, we'll take a good hard look at the case's top suspects. And by the end of this episode, we'll solve the case. And if, if by chance, we get to the end of this list and we have not solved the case, then we will suspend our investigation and move on to other more urgent priorities. But now, let our investigation begin.

Okay. You know, we did make a promise in episode one we were going to solve this case. Yeah, and I've got faith. Okay, all right. but I also give up easily. So here we go. But first, a small note. In this episode, we'll take a look at 10 suspects. And for the purposes of fun and whimsy, I will be presenting each of these suspects with an award. Is the award real? Does it have any actual value? Well, let's just say that I hope you'll take these awards as seriously as I take the FIFA World Peace Prize.

Hey. But before our ceremony begins, I first want to address the D.B. Cooper suspects, who I did not include in this list. Oh, do we have an in-memorium section? Listen. To those thin-lipped white boys, I say, look, buddy, this was an incredibly competitive process. And since this is the last episode in our series before holiday break, I decided to keep it to one episode. Fear not, though. you're all skyjackers in my heart.

Woo, yeah. Okay, here we go. I wish I had that. Let's hear it for the boys sound clear. Yeah, no kidding. Oh, what a loss. Hang on a second. Okay.

There's something I have to do if we're going to go over the suspects. Okay. What are you about to do? Oh, everyone, Norman is putting on his tinfoil hat. It's here, folks. Norm, for reasons that will become clear later, I'm going to ask you to take that off.

What? And put it back on later. But I'm ready right now. I understand that, but now is simply not the time. This is a real tight ship I'm running. Okay, this award show. The first annual. Our first award of the evening is the always reliable, but very boring.

Toyota Camry Award. Oh. This year's Toyota Camry Award for Boring Reliability goes to... Drum roll, please. Aye. That's right. we have to celebrate a random dead guy because, let's face it, it's very possible that D.B. Cooper died when he parachuted out of that plane.

Yep. It's possible that he was washed out to sea. It's possible that he was shish kebubed on a very tall tree and his body has simply not been found. You think he was impaled on a tree? I think it's possible. That's a gruesome way to die, but also comedic in some way if he was shish kebobbed on a tree. Norm, you sick. sick man. I mean, come on, Kristen.

I'm in the process of handing this man an award. It's a good theory. You're thrown in his coffin. He doesn't have a coffin. He's either been washed out to sea or he's shish kebobbed or he's in the woods. Try to keep up. It's a good theory. It's reliable. It's safe. Yeah. But I ask you, do we want to believe this theory? Does it excite us? Is it flashy? No. No. But it is. A good theory.

And that is why the Toyota Camry Award goes to a random dead guy. Yes, okay, everyone, thank you. Mm-hmm. No speeches. Our second award goes to someone unexpected. Someone who proves that maybe women really can do it all. Ooh. For that reason, I am pleased to present the Barbie Dreamhouse Award to Barbara Dayton.

That's right. A woman. We really can do everything. A woman suspect? Yes. Including maybe. Cosplay as a man and pull off the only unsolved skyjacking in United States history. I've never heard this one.

Sisters are doing it for themselves. You never heard this one? No. Norm. Okay, here we go. Buckle up. Barbara Dayton is a fascinating suspect. Barbara was a trans woman.

in fact, she was one of the first people in Washington State to receive gender-affirming surgery. She transitioned in 1969, two years before the hijacking. Here's her background. She was a World War II veteran. She went skydiving for fun. She went so often, she found it boring. She was a pilot, but she didn't qualify to become a commercial pilot. So maybe she had a bit of a grudge.

and people love to think that D.B. Cooper had a grudge because he said that cool thing to Tina McLaughlo. I just have a grudge. Yeah. She worked with explosives. She worked in construction. She'd had a really tough life. She rode with the hell's angels.

She had a history of violence. At the time of the hijacking, she lived just south of Seattle. Convenient. Mm-hmm. Knew the area well. At one point, she even confessed to the crime. What? I mean, in fairness, if you...

wanted to make a drinking game, you could easily be like drink every time someone confesses to being DB Cooper and you'd just be hammered in no time. Okay. A lot of people came forward then, huh? Yeah. She said that she'd committed the hijacking by essentially cosplaying as a dude. But she later recanted that confession. Barbara definitely had some of the skills needed to pull off the hijacking.

She knew how to parachute. She knew about explosives. She knew about flying. The FBI said they were looking for someone who was smart. and desperate for money, and Barbara fit that bill. This next part could mean something or could mean absolutely nothing. Okay. But her medical records revealed that eight days before the hijacking,

she reported feeling depressed. And oddly, about two weeks after the hijacking, she was not depressed at all. And even though her welfare benefits were about to expire, she seemed, quote, strangely unworry about money. But was she D.B. Cooper? I kind of don't think so. No?

All right. Tell me why. A big reason is that Barbara's teeth were in really rough shape. It was something that her doctors noticed. This is really stupid. But a big factor in whether they were going to give her gender affirming care was like whether she'd look pretty enough as a woman, which is insane. And a big factor were her teeth. Okay. Um, family members offered to help her get them fixed.

And I just think that if D.B. Cooper had that level of visible dental issues, the eyewitnesses would have noticed it. Okay. So, so her teeth were really messed up. Mess. I mean, enough that it was noticeable. Enough that a witness would have been like, yeah, D.B. Cooper had really bad teeth. Right. Okay. I also think, given what people have said about Barbara, that she probably didn't have. have D.B. Cooper's temperament. He was so calm under pressure, and she seems like a little bit more of a wild card, a little willing to say anything. Yeah. For those reasons, we can't say she's

D.B. Cooper, but we can say that she is the proud winner of the Barbie Dreamhouse Award. All right. Our third award of the evening goes to a shy, nondescript man whose brother was obsessed with Nora Ephron. Nora Ephron? Yes. The one who's saying, Don't know why I didn't call. No.

No, that's Nora. That's Nora Jones. Yeah, that's Nora Jones. Don't know why. Nora Ephron is the writer I love. Yes. She also is the movie director, Sleepless in Seattle.

You've got mail. Yes, you've got male, Julie and Julia, uh-huh. She did Heartburn. Yes. I love that book. I love You've Got Mail. I know you do. You're a huge fan.

Big fan of that movie. So it is my pleasure to present the award for Wallflower at the Orgy to Kenneth Christensen. Good job, Kenneth. Wallflower at the Orgy, by the way, one of Nora Ephron's books. Great title. I mean, no one wants to be the Wallflower at the Orgy. Sure. You got to dive in there.

Uh-huh. Get dirty. Kenneth's brother Lyle has long suspected. that Kenneth was D.B. Cooper. He hired a private investigator to look into it, and he made repeated attempts to get Nora Ephron to do a movie about it. I don't mean to be rude, but I find this hilarious. Nora Ephron did not do, like, documentary, you know,

she didn't do, like, investigation. Oh, no. She did, you've got mail. My understanding is that he was a fan of the movie Sleepless in Seattle. This is ridiculous. but his brother was kind of bashful, so he had this idea that there would be a movie called Bashful in Seattle. Bashful and Sia, the sequel. I think this is an example.

I'm not saying this guy's a dumb guy. I'm just saying we all have our areas where we know a lot, and I just think the movie business, he wasn't on the up and up. He didn't really know what was going on. Yeah, I don't think that's going to work. What kicked off his obsession? Well, on his deathbed, Kenneth told Lyle something. to the effect of, there is something you should know, but I cannot tell you.

Okay, that doesn't... No, it's not even I'm D.B. Cooper. No, okay. But, in fairness, let's talk about Kenneth. Because I know it sounds like he is not a good suspect at all, but let me tell you some stuff. Kenneth was a World War II vet. Ding. He trained as a paratrooper.

Ding. He trained for parachute jumps into jungles. Ding. He parachuted for fun, too. Ding. He worked for North War II. Air L'West Airlines as a mechanic. Ding.

Flight attendant. Ding. And Purser. Ding. That's the one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we can't just say it.

The head flight attendant. Yes. Yes. Was it possible that as an employee of the airline, the hijacking was a bit of revenge? So if you remember, that was the first thing Tina Mucklo, the flight attendant, had suspected. She said, do you have a grudge against our airline?

And he said no. Right. He just had a grudge. But I thought it was interesting. that she thought this is a grudge against our specific airline. It would have been funny if he'd been like, oh my God, you caught me. Damn it, Tina.

Yep, you got it. Physically, Kenneth was a good match for the hijacker. He was 45 years old at the time of the hijacking. Okay, all right. Much like D.B. Cooper, he was nondescript. He had a way of being almost invisible. People did not notice him. Technically, he had hazel eyes, not brown eyes.

but I say that is close enough. Hazel eyes. Now, come on. Do you agree with me? What color is hazel? It's kind of a lighter brown, like a yellowish. Okay. The hazel-eyed people are going to be pissed at me.

More greenish, brownish, one fish, two-fish. So flight attendant Florence Shafter, she was the one who saw the hijacker without sunglasses on, and she said brown eyes. And maybe it's just me because I feel like I'm bad at notice. eye color. But I'm kind of like, are we really going to worry too much about that? I mean, I think it's important if you're trying to identify a suspect. What if she's wrong, though? Yeah, I mean, that is like something that's hard to notice right away, I guess. You really

got to take a look at somebody's eyeballs, you know? I'm looking at yours right now. Also, Kenneth was a little thick in the middle? At least he was in a photo from the mid-70s. But according to his brother Lyle, Kenny was trim and sexy in the fall of 1971, so everybody back off. Kenny was practicing for the Nathan's hot dog eating contest, so he put on a little weight. Okay, okay. I mean, everything seems to be lining up all right. Uh-huh. Also, Kenneth liked bourbon.

Mm, seven and seven. He was a smoker. Yep. He was thrifty. He definitely liked cheap cigarettes. Ah, and deals on hot fashion items at J.C. Penny. Perhaps. Yeah.

Plus, a year after the hijacking? You know what he did? Went on a cruise? Maybe. But he bought a house and paid cash. Ooh. And his brother was like, what? Because Kenneth didn't make a ton of money.

How was he paying for a house in cash? Okay, well, hang on, hang on. What? What is it a nice house? Was it a shack? Like, what are we talking about? Well, I don't know. I've not seen the home, but I assume it was nice enough that his brother thought it was kind of crazy that he was paying cash for it.

Okay. Enough to raise suspicions. If it was an old lawnmower shed, I don't think he would have thought much of it. Right. It's kind of where I'm going. Yeah. By the way, we definitely stayed in an Airbnb that used to be a lawnmower shed 100%. The couple had put art on the walls that was clearly them having sex. Yes.

Yes. It was horrifying. Also, I don't mean to raise the romance level in whatever room you're listening to this in, but there was not a door on the bathroom. No door. I think it had a curtain, though, right? It did not. It had a, well, no, it had a curtain that separated the toilet from the living space,

but not from the bedroom area. So whenever one of us had to use the bathroom, we had to get it, the other one had to get out of bed. Right. Yeah. Walk past the sexy art of the couple who was renting the place to us and just, you know, drop trow in front of the other person. It was terribly romantic. Horribly romantic. So maybe Kenneth was D.B. Cooper.

Or maybe he was just a shy, nondescript guy harboring a much more boring secret on his deathbed. My analysis, I think Kenneth is a pretty good suspect. Okay. And a very worthy recipient of this year's coveted Wallflower at the Orgy Award. How do you feel about Kenneth? Okay. What's Kenneth's last name?

Christensen. Kenneth? One good thing, if you want to go to the Wikipedia page for D.B. Cooper, they've got a suspects list, and they've got a lot of photos of the guys. Oh, okay, all right. Kenneth Christensen, D.B. Cooper suspect. I think he looks a lot. Like the sketch.

Yeah, I would say so. Although I think the whole Nora Ephron obsession is a little weird. It definitely is. But you know what? That's the thing. It's like we're going to hear from a lot of people who they think their uncle is D.B. Cooper. They think their husband was D.B. Cooper. You don't get to choose who comes forward.

Yeah. And maybe it's somebody who's got a quirky idea about where this thing needs to go. Mm-hmm. Now, according to Wikipedia, the FBI did not like, Christensen as a suspect because a poor match to eyewitness physical descriptions and a complete absence of direct incriminating evidence. Sure. There's not going to be a lot of direct incriminating evidence on any of these guys, though, just so we're clear. Yeah, yeah.

Are you ready for our next award? Yes. By the way, I'm wearing costume jewelry, very fancy costume jewelry, because I take this seriously. Yeah, I didn't know there would be an award show. I told you several times that I was doing an awards show. Well, I'm looking pretty good, I think. I was hoping for a t-shirt at the very least. Okay, our fourth award of the evening is one that you're probably excited about.

But likely, after you hear it, you'll never think about it again. I'm pleased to present the $19-dollar hamburger award to Lynn Doyle Cooper. $19. hamburger. Yeah, you're going to see what I mean. Okay. We're excited at first. We're going to try it and then go, okay, and forget about it. Sounds like a mediocre restaurant to me. Yeah, but you're going to pay a lot. Okay, in the year of our Lord 2009, L.D. Cooper's niece, Marla Cooper, came forward to say that she suspected that her uncle had been D.B. Cooper. She said that when she was eight years old, She remembered him coming to Thanksgiving, 1971, at her grandma's house near Sisters, Oregon.

L.D. and her other uncle showed up that morning. And wow, L.D. was bruised, bloody. He looked like a mess. The men claimed that L.D. had been in a car accident. Marla says she remembers her uncle say, Our money problems are over. We just need to go back and get the money. Her memory of that day is not perfect, but it's interesting. It's also interesting that L.D. Cooper was apparently a big fan of the Dan Cooper comic books that you brought up in last week's episode. Plus, at the time of the hijacking, he did look a little like that Bing Crosby's sketch.

He had receding wavy hair. Marla's mother and father always suspected that he'd been D.B. Cooper. He was a veteran of the Korean War. Okay. Would have been about 40 at the time of the hijacking. Maybe a little too young, but all right. By a couple years, yeah. And he moved away from Oregon about a year after the hijacking.

But was he D.B. Cooper? I mean, he could have been, but meh. M. Yeah? And Norm, it's that meh feeling that means that L.D. Cooper definitely deserves the surprisingly dry $19. dollar hamburger award. Now wait a minute, wait a second. Kristen, where are you giving this man the met award?

Well, I mean, I think, I definitely don't think this woman's making this up. But I think anytime it's like I was eight years old, here's my memory from when I was eight years old, and that's kind of all we've got on the person. That's just, eh. Yeah, I mean. He could be. He could be. Well, the whole memory of like, yeah, I remember them specifically.

Specifically saying our money troubles are over. What's wrong with that? I don't know. That just seems like a weird thing to remember when you're eight years old. I don't think so. I think that seems, I think it seems kind of shocking. And I feel like people tend to remember the more shocking stuff. Like he comes home, he's bloody.

Yeah. Okay. And I mean, I realize other people weren't raised like me in the Pitts household. We talked about money all the time. But I imagine in most normal households, when someone, an adult says, our money troubles are over, it might stick in a kid's mind.

I don't know if I would care about that at eight. Maybe. Maybe I was a distracted young boy. Yeah, you wanted more video games, and you know what you have to do to get more video games? Well, I would need an allowance, for one. You'd need your uncle to hijack a plane

and get ransom money, and so you'd be thrilled about this, Norm. Our fifth award goes to possibly the coolest man, who has ever existed. Whoa. It is my honor to present the Since When is Being Awesome a Crime Award to Sheridan Peterson? All right.

Okay, within a week of the hijacking, our boy Sheridan was under suspicion and for good reason. He was a World War II vet. He was a smoke jumper in the 50s. Do you know what a smoke jumper is? No. They are elite five. firefighters who parachute into the wilderness to battle blazes.

Oh, that's awesome. Keep your panties on. He worked as a technical editor for Boeing. Ever heard of it? In fact, he was a founding member of the Boeing Employees Skydiving Club. Just a fun club? We all go skydiving? He worked in the department that wrote the manual for the Boeing 727.

Oh, so he knows a lot about that plane. Yeah, he knows everything there is to know about it. Mm-hmm. In fact, Sheridan parachuted during a Boeing promotional exercise wearing, get this, a business suit and a pair of Oxford loafers with a 50-pound sack of flour strapped to his legs. Why? It was just for a promotional exercise, for a cool photo. But why did he have flour on his legs?

Well, I don't know. It was just extra weight. What was the point of that? Okay, wow, that's very specific and interesting. Why? It just sounds like it was like a trial run for the DB Cooper jump. It sounds exactly like it. Business suit, Oxford loafers, a big, I mean, it wasn't flour, it was a ton of cash, strapped to him.

World War II veteran, you said? Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Also? He worked at a skydive center in the early 60s, the same place that about a decade later would supply the parachutes to D.B. Cooper. Hmm. Plus, he was into civil rights. He assisted refugees in Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

He spoke out against the Tiananmen Square Massacre. Some people think that this is evidence that he had a grudge against the establishment and therefore was definitely the hitchhiker. I'm sorry, hijacker. Very different thing. Yeah. I think it is simply evidence that he was very good and cool. Could Sheridan Peterson be D.B. Cooper? I think maybe.

He was 44 at the time of the hijacking. He looked a lot like the Bing Crosby sketch, except he had blue eyes. Also, he didn't smoke. Oh. Although, why not smoke for a crime, you know? Is that so crazy? Well, you don't think someone would do that? I mean to throw people off, sure.

Yeah. But hopefully he like smoked a little before he did it because if it was his first time smoking and he got on the plane. That would be hilarious. I've made a fool of myself. Well, he's definitely got all the credentials to pull off this. No kidding. But, you know, the eye color doesn't match. So that's interesting.

Look at his photo. Did you look at his photo? Okay. And try not to be seduced by the coolest man you've ever heard about. Sheridan Peterson. I don't know. I think he looks like the Bing Crosby sketch. You don't see it?

I mean, his hair lines really leaving his head. Well, you know, in the Bing Crosby sketch, he was kind of, you know. Hmm. No? I mean, yeah, he definitely looks like the alien Bing Crosby sketch for sure. Okay. Sheridan always maintained that at the time of the hijacking, he was living in Nepal, with his wife and children, where he was writing a book about American atrocities in Vietnam.

For whatever reason, even though Sheridan was initially listed as a suspect, he didn't actually get interviewed by the FBI until decades later. And after that interview, the FBI agent who talked to him was like, oh my gosh, that man was fascinating. He's so cool. But also, no, I can't say that he was D.B. Cooper, but fascinating guy. But was he though? Maybe.

Or maybe the only thing he was guilty of was being awesome. I think he could have been. Yeah? Maybe. Okay. Okay. And that's why we're presenting Sheridan Peterson with the Since When is Being Awesome a Crime Award? Now, on this Wikipedia entry, it talks about a DNA sample.

Did you see anything about that? Yeah. So there have been efforts to do DNA. test with some stuff on the tie. Yeah. I'm leaving it out because they've not found a match on anybody. But the other thing is not finding a match doesn't mean he's not their guy because they don't know for sure that the DNA on the tie belonged to DB Cooper.

It's a really, really small sample. Yeah. And I kind of feel like until they find someone who's a match, I don't even, honestly, I don't even know that that would fully hold up in court. You don't think so? No, because... Where do they get DNA on the tie? Like, from a hair?

How do you collect DNA from a tie? I don't know. I'm assuming that the FBI has better technology than we do. I would say so, for sure. We're always doing DNA tests on stuff. Although, we did just get an air fryer. Our technology game is... We're going up in the world, you know?

For our next award this evening, I ask that all of our listeners drop what they're doing, go straight to their nearest kitchen, and grab your rent. Reynolds rap because we are now presenting the tinfoil hat award to Ted Brayton. Norm, you know what to do. Get that tinfoil hat. Oh, yeah. All right, Kristen. We are through the looking glass here, people. Okay, get ready. Who was Ted Braden? He was an excellent skydiver. He was a World War II vet. He was a Vietnam vet in the Special Forces.

He was also a convicted felon. Ooh. Yep. In Vietnam, he abandoned his unit to go fight in the Congo for hire. He became a mercenary? Yeah. Well, that's pretty badass. But also, wrong.

I was going to say, I thought the military kind of frowned on that. The word mercenary is just cool, though. Okay, it's funny. I realized that I always assumed the word mercenary was a good thing. It just sounds like a positive thing. but using context clues, I was like, oh, people do not like this at all. Yeah, your soldier for hire. Yeah.

Yeah. He was later arrested by the CIA, which had to sting because, according to some sources, he was BFFs with one of the founding members of the CIA. Ted was court-martialed. He was incarcerated. He had committed a big, bad offense. But oddly, our boy Ted was given an honorable discharge and a legend. set free after the Army Chief of Staff personally intervened.

Ooh. Here's a fun fact. The folks who worked at the jail were like, man, this dude is really calm and chill. Just like D.B. Cooper was. Yeah, and he was facing big, bad penalties. Ted had a reputation for being intelligent and for being willing to commit crimes, especially for money. He also had a reputation for getting away with stuff. Mm-hmm.

He was 43 years old at the time of the hijacking. Yep, yep. And I sound like a broken record, but he looks kind of like the FBI's final sketch. Okay. Not the Big Crosby, but the final sketch. Kind of look this guy up? Uh-huh. Ted Braden.

Okay, yep. Yep. Receding hairline. That guy brows. Thin lips. Yep. The one thing I'll say about this guy is a lot of the information about him kind of comes from weird message boards. you can find some sources.

I know. And that's why I'm like tinfoil hat. I'm pointing at my tinfoil hat right. Part of me as I was looking at this stuff because sometimes you can get some good sources but they're books. And, you know, I hadn't read those books so I didn't want to include all of that information

without having read the books. Yeah. So I am a little skeptical. But at the same time, when I first started this series and I was just thinking, who do I think did this? I, tinfoil hat gal, was thinking, oh, the government knows who did this.

Someone in the CIA did this. And it's just too embarrassing to admit. Yeah, they don't want to expose one of their agents. Yeah. Now, I'm reading here, it says he served in the 101st airborne during World War II. And he was 16. He lied about his age. So, again, there's a lot of stuff on there that I felt like I couldn't verify very well, so I didn't include it.

But if you're just looking at Wikipedia, I mean, the case is strong on Wikipedia. Lock him up. He's probably dead. But, you know, get him. Wow. Okay. What else he got, Kristen? That's it.

Oh. Well then. So, was he D.B. Cooper? Was he even real, man? Either way, Ted Braden gets our tinfoil hat award. What do you think of him? Strong suspect. I would say.

Yeah. Now, did it say what area he lived in? I imagine he lived in a lot of different places. Yeah. And, you know, if he's ex-military, ex-special ops guy, he's going to study the area no matter what. I believe also he grew up in Ohio. So that would explain the accent, the no-axon accent. Okay.

So he was a suspect. Mm-hmm. Did he commit any other crimes after D.B. Cooper? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think that's strong suspect right there. It's hard to take you seriously with that ten-floor. Well, you better.

We're going to solve this case, Kristen. Okay. When I do the press conference, when we announce who DB Coopers, I'm going to be wearing this. And you're going to say, you know, a lot of nut jobs have weighed in on this case. But don't worry. We're podcasters. We're here to make things right. I am going to move on to our next award.

Do you want to keep the hat on? Let's leave it on. Okay, very good. The title for our seventh award. of the evening comes directly from the suspect himself. He said this after a documentary filmmaker locked in on him as a suspect and simply would not let go. Oh, boy.

Everyone, please congratulate Robert Rackshaw, the recipient of the, quote, It's a lot of shit and they know it is award. I love that. It's a lot of shit and they know it is. What does that mean? It means this theory about me is a lot of shit. and they know it is.

Okay. Who was Robert? Robert was a pilot, a Vietnam War vet. Okay. A former paratrooper. All right. And a bad, bad boy.

Ooh. He wrote bad checks. Did he murder his stepfather? Well, he got acquitted for that crime, so everybody calmed down. In 1978, he was arrested in Iran, where he was working as a pilot. He got deported because he had a bunch of explosives and was doing sketchy things with money. Back in the U.S., while he was out on bail, Robert faked his own death when he rented an airplane and pretended that he died in a plane crash. They found him a couple

months later and yada, yada, yada, he went to prison. Unfortunately for Robert, a while back, a documentary filmmaker named Thomas Colbert and his team of amateur sleuths became convinced that Robert Rachshaw was definitely D.B. Cooper and Norm is shaking his head. This guy sounds a little too wild to be D.B. Cooper. Too wild. D.B. Cooper hijacked a plane with a bomb

and did what no one had successfully done before. He got the ransom money. He parachuted out and never to be seen again. Any suspect has to be kind of a wild guy. Yeah, but this guy doesn't seem cool enough. Cool enough. Yeah, he's not cool enough. He faked his own death in an

airplane. I mean, that's pretty wild. That's not calm and cool. Also, it was a rented airplane. He rented it. That's just rude. Yeah, I don't know. This guy seems like a wild card. But go on.

Okay. Don't you have to be a wild card to do what D.B. Cooper did? I think you just have to be very, very skilled. And has to be very well planned out. And I feel like this guy is just kind of all over the place. All right. All right. You feel like D.B. Cooper is the type of guy who does something like this.

and doesn't get caught for anything else in his life? Possibly. You don't think he's like a thrill seeker. Hmm. Who puts himself in these situations. You see, I don't know. I expect a man with a tinfoil hat on to have all the answers, half of them made up.

I'm a really bad conspiracy theorist. I got to tell you, I mean, I'm great at making the tinfoil hats, but like, I don't believe any of this shit, okay? Okay. So they locked in on him as a suspect. It had to be him. It was definitely him. Yeah, and I hate that.

I do too. That is bad documentary filmmaking. I can see how it happens. I can see how you get locked in, you get excited, but what do you do with that? Are you going to harass somebody? Are you going to ignore all the other evidence that contradicts what you want to do? Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Let's keep going. Okay. In fact, Thomas told the media that one of his volunteers cracked. a code that proved that Richard was D.B. Cooper. What code? I will tell you. Is it on the cereal box? It's almost that stupid. Here's the story. In the aftermath of the hijacking, newspapers received a ton of letters from people claiming

to be D.B. Cooper. I mean, these things happen. Yeah, sure. But there was one particular letter that apparently stood out to the FBI. It went out to a bunch of major newspapers on December 11th, 1971. And the FBI took that letter very seriously because it contained details about the crime that hadn't yet been made public. I'd like to pause and read that letter to you now. I have a very fuzzy copy and I wonder if some of it has been redacted, but I'm just going to read it because, you know, why not? Okay. Let's hear it. It says, sirs, I knew from the start that I wouldn't be caught. I didn't rob Northwest Orient because I thought it would be romantic or any of the other euphemisms that seem to attach themselves to situations of high risk. I'm no modern day Robin Hood.

Unfortunately, do have only 14 months to live. My life has been one of hate, turmoil, hunger, and more hate. This seemed to be the fastest and most profitable way to gain a few fast grains of peace of mind. I don't blame people for hating me for what I've done, nor do I blame anyone for wanting me to be caught and punished, though this can never happen. Here are some, not all, of the things working against the authorities. Number one, I'm not a boasting man. I left no fingerprints.

I wore a toupee. I wore putty makeup. Oh, come on. I thought this guy isn't a boasting man. He's writing a letter to the new. This is the most boastful letter ever. They could add or subtract from the composite a hundred times and not come up with an accurate description. And we both know it.

I've come and gone on several airline flights already and am not holed up in some obscure backwood town. Neither am I a psychopathic killer. As a matter of fact, I've never even received a speeding ticket. Thank you for your attention. D.B. Cooper. Yeah, right. It's obnoxious, isn't it? Yeah, and honestly, like, the whole thing, like, well, he knew some stuff that no one else did.

The only thing I caught there was, I left no fingerprints. And some guy who's writing a fake letter to the newspaper, that's something you can just come up with in your head and write it. So that's kind of why I wonder if some of that has been redacted. Mm-hmm. You think it was redacted to, like, protect the investigation? Yeah, yeah. Well, the toupee thing and the putty makeup, A witness would have noticed that, right?

Not necessarily. Puddy makeup? Okay, when you hear putty makeup, what do you think? I'm thinking of just foundation. Really? Yeah. I'm thinking of like actors' makeup. So like thick foundation.

I'm thinking of like a big fake nose made of putty. Oh, well, I mean, maybe that is what he meant by putty makeup. Like I put on a big honk and nose. Yeah, or ears or, yeah. Okay, continue. So there's that letter, but there were also random letters and numbers at the bottom of the letter. Maybe that was some sort of code. The FBI evidently tried to crack the code but didn't come up with anything meaningful.

But a dude from Thomas Colbert's rag-tag investigation crew worked on it for two weeks and he was pretty sure he cracked it. Really? Yeah, where's the applause button? Crack the code, solve the case. You don't see. pleased enough. Guess what? What? When he cracked that code,

guess what it revealed? It revealed that the guy they thought, excuse me, they knew did it, had definitely done it. What did it say? Well, drink your chocolate oval to you?

The guy shared some of his code-breaking process with a journalist at the Oregonian in 2021, on the condition that the journalist not reveal his process in the article because it was going to be featured heavily in an upcoming documentary. He said that the numbers and letters on the bottom of that letter,

Norm, quit smirking, all corresponded to Robert Rackshaw's Vietnam military units, the 371st Radio Research Unit, the 11th General Support Company, the Army Security Agency. Okay. Pretty amazing, huh? I'm not convinced. It all led back to him. Yeah, some other people weren't convinced either,

because the code-breaking story obviously captured the media's attention for a while. You know, it's a supposedly new information in the D.B. Cooper case. That's cool. But a couple days later, some actual expert cryptologists reached out to the Oregonian, and they were like, they were very nice about it. They were like, hey, we're sure that dude was trying his best. But it looks like his code breaking methods were pretty crappy. The rule of his code allowed for so much freedom that it allowed him to get the result he wanted. Exactly. Yeah. So some random dude spent two weeks looking at these numbers.

I know what this means. Yeah, an actual cryptologist looked at it. Right. And they're like, no. It's exactly what I thought. They got the answer they wanted. Yes. Yeah.

But the documentary filmmaker was pretty pleased with the work of his code. Oh, I bet. This will be great for the documentary. I'm sorry. Documentary. Oh, that was so bitchy, Norm. He did air quotes. For anyone who doesn't have the video, those were air quotes. In that original article, Thomas said that things were testy between himself and the FBI.

He complained that they were no longer taking his calls. Oh, no. The reason? According to Thomas, the FBI didn't want to admit that a bunch of amateurs had cracked a case that had puzzled them for decades. He said, quote, it's not that they're concerned about a circumstantial case. This is obviously about embarrassment and shame. Dude, come on, man. By that point, Thomas Colbert had already released a documentary about D.B. Cooper and Robert Rackshaw. It came out in 2016.

It was called D.B. Cooper. Case closed. But I'm pretty sure it's also on Netflix under the name D.B. Cooper, where are you? In that documentary, he offered Robert Rackshaw a check for 20 grand for the rights to the story. of the hijacking. He paid him? I'm going to be honest. I turned the documentary off because I thought it sucked. So I don't know what came of it.

I just know that when he like ambushes some old man and was like, admit that you did this and I'll give you 20 grand. Okay. That's like. Oh yeah, I did it. Oh, she admitted she's a witch. You know, I, I feel like. For shame.

It sucks. Personally, I do think that Robert looks a little like the final FBI sketch. It pains me to say that because I just, I don't like this at all. I got to look at this guy. But he was only 28 at the time of the hijacking. Oh, give me a break. And when the flight attendants from the DB Cooper hijacking saw pictures of Robert, they were like, no, it's not the guy. Yeah, he's way too young.

Yeah. Way too young. In an interview, two years before he died, Robert was asked about the renewed assertions that he was definitely D.B. Cooper. And he said the words that are now engraved in his very real award that this podcast is giving to him today. It's a lot of shit and they know it is. Wow, that's terrible suspect. Yeah. Norm, it's hard to believe that we're on our second to last award of the evening.

I know. It's just been such a magical. night, Kristen. All the stars are out. And now we're ready for our next one. This award recipient is a well-known suspect. He was a con artist. An epic liar.

And evidently, one hell of an insurance salesman. Everyone, give it up for Dwayne Weber, winner of the Bad Husband Award. Oh, no, not the Bad Husband Award. We hate it. I have won Good Husband Award. From whom? From you.

Yes, you do regularly. How dare you? You win the Good Husband Award quite often. I have a mug. Kristen bought me a mug from T.J. Max one time that says, best husband ever. And she presented it to me. And before I bought it, I smashed all the other Best Husband mugs in that T.J. Max so that you would know you were the only one who received it. Well, just like the Highlander, Kristen, there can only be one.

Best husband ever. So thank you very much. But this guy, worst husband ever. Get a load of this. Dwayne emerged as a suspect, thanks to his widow, Joe Weber. Joe and Dwayne met in 1977 at a bar in the Hilton Hotel. Ooh. Dwayne was a lot older than the guys Joe typically dated.

But he was smooth. He was charming. He ordered her a bottle of champagne. At the time, Joe was a single mother of two children. She appreciated the luxury. They got married two years later, and for the most part, life was good. Dwayne sold insurance, and he was really good at it. He won cruises and plaque alert.

He got a lot of plaques. Oh, wait a second, Kristen. I like saying plaque alert. He won a lot of plaques. Dwayne was super charming, so funny. But he also stole stuff. Oh, that's not good. Weird stuff.

Like Joe caught him stealing Kool-Aid packets from the grocery store, and he didn't even drink Kool-Aid. So what was the effing point? Isn't that a condition where you, like, want to steal just random stuff? I mean, you do hear about that, cleptomania or just people who... Yeah, yeah. Won a little thrill.

Mm-hmm. Duane never talked much about the life he'd led before he met Joe. But she knew some stuff. She knew he'd been married a few times. She knew he'd been in the Navy and in the Army. After they retired, they opened an antique shop. in Florida. And Dwayne got sick.

Really sick. It was his kidneys. He got so sick that he decided to stop the dialysis. He was ready to go. Mm-hmm. On his deathbed, he told Joe, I'm Dan Cooper. And she said,

what? And he got kind of agitated. He said it again. But she had no idea of what he was talking about. And finally, he cursed and he just gave up. He died a few days later. And months after that, Joe was on a date and she was talking about her late husband, Dwayne, and she mentioned what he'd said on his deathbed.

And the guy was like, wait, did he mean D.B. Cooper? The next day, Joe went to the library and checked out a book on D.B. Cooper and noticed writing in the margins. It looked like her late husband's handwriting. Wait, wait, wait. She checked the book out from the library? Yeah. And she noticed her husband's... handwriting in that book? Yeah.

What did it say? I don't know. That kind of kills me. I don't know what it said. This is a really inspiring passage. I did not do it this way. Sir, please don't write in the library books. My lips are plump and juicy, so I don't know where they're getting this information about thin lips.

Lies, all lies. Memories flooded back to her. Stuff that had seemed weird at the time, but that she'd just brushed off. For example, she remembered that in the late 70s, Dwayne was having a nightmare, and he woke up in a panic saying, I left my prints on the aft stairs. I'm going to die. Oh, my fingerprints on the stairs. But he didn't say stairs. He said aft stairs. What's aft stairs? So that's interesting to me because it's an unusual word.

A simpler and more civilian way of putting it is the stairs on the back of the airplane. But it's funny because it's. In a lot of these sources, they talk about the aft stairs. And when I've told this story, I've not used that word because I think it's an unusual word and people don't know what it means. I didn't know what it meant. Yeah. So I've just been saying the stairs at the back of the plane. So the actual terminology is the aft stairs.

Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. Another time, Joe remembered finding an airline ticket in his sock drawer. She couldn't swear to it, but she was pretty sure it was a north. West Orient ticket from 1971. She remembered asking him about it, and he just kind of blew her off.

But she noticed that the next time she went to the sock drawer, that ticket was gone. Another time in 1979, he took her out to Southwest Washington and told her, that's where D.B. Cooper walked out of the woods. And she said, how do you know that? And he said, maybe I was on the ground. And she just took that as a joke. You see, this is the tinfoil hat suspect right here. Later, on that same trip, they were driving along when he stopped the car on a bridge over the Columbia River.

He told Joe to wait in the car and he got out, went into the trunk for something and was gone for a couple minutes. And the next year, eight-year-old Brian Ingram found three bundles of D.B. Cooper ransom money not far from that area. Had Dwayne maybe thrown some of the ransom money off the bridge? Why would he do that? I don't know. Maybe if he felt like he couldn't use it. Those bills are not usable. Yeah.

Not in that condition, at least. But like you're saying he took perfectly good ransom money, put it into the river, and then the kid found it. Well, I'm not saying anything. Okay. And Joe's just saying, Joe's not saying I saw him put money in the water. She's just saying, here's this weird thing. Yes. And I would say, if he felt like this money cannot be spent because of the serial numbers,

then maybe that's a reason to try to get it out of his possession. Also, assuming it hadn't been well kept, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it was in perfect condition, assuming he did throw it into the water. But it was only a partial amount of money. So it was like, what do you do with the rest of the money? Yeah, only a partial amount was found. Yeah, yeah. What else he got Joe?

Then there was his knee injury. He always claimed that he'd gotten it from jumping out of a plane. Joe brought her suspicions to the FBI, but she didn't have any real evidence. And plus, a lot of people confessed to being D.B. Cooper. Sure. So they listened, and it seems like maybe they looked into it a bit. But then one day, in 1995, a guy called Joe. He'd bought Dwayne's old van.

And while he was cleaning it, he found a wallet. He returned it to Joe, and she went through it, and she was stunned by it. She had never seen that wallet in her life. The driver's license was for John C. Collins. But Dwayne's picture was on it. The wallet was filled with all kinds of stuff that didn't make sense. A picture of the San Marino Sanitarium? An NRA card under the name John C. Collins?

an honorable discharge paper from the Navy for John C. Collins, a piece of paper that at the top read commutation of sentence, state of Missouri. Missouri? According to that document, John C. Collins had been sentenced to four years in prison for grand stealing. He'd been released after two years. Hmm. Joe was freaking out. Who the hell had she been married to?

Who the bleep did I marry? She shared that information with the FBI. and she also shared it with the media. And one guy, a reporter from U.S. News and World Report, took her seriously enough to really look into Dwayne's background. And holy crap, did he find some stuff. Okay, let's hear it. He discovered that Dwayne had spent most of his life in prison. He'd been a con artist.

During World War II, he'd run a con where he seduced women and got the GI checks from their husbands. What? messed up. That is so messed up. Yeah, he went to prison for that. So he didn't serve in the war. He was just coning ladies back home. I think he probably served some, but also he was serving ass back home to the ladies, you know. Serving his ass. What? Well, I don't know. Serving ass? I don't know. I was trying to. Hey, you want some of this? I guess he was serving dick. You know, whatever. Hey, hey, he's a bad guy, not me. Later, he went to prison in Ohio. After that, he was in San Quentin. Then he was in Folsom. Then he went to prison in Colorado. When he was 33 years old,

he was arrested at a Florida nightclub where he'd been caught flirting with women. And while they were in the hazy fog of seduction, he stole their wallets. That's so mean. This is way worse than stealing those Kool-Aid packets. I agree. One thing's for certain. Dwayne Weber sucked. But was he D.B. Cooper? He would have been 47 years old at the time of the crime. He was a smoker. Okay. He drank bourbon. He matched the physical description of the hijacker.

But I don't think there's enough to say he was D.B. Cooper? No. What I do think there is is plenty of evidence that he loved lying to and manipulating women. And I think that that is what he has done to his wife, even in death. And for that reason, I'm giving Dwayne Weber the bad husband award. Well, should we be applauding the bad husband. No, we should be booing him. I feel bad for Joe.

She's been through a lot. Yeah. And some people really dismiss her as like, oh, she's, you know, she's so rubble, blah, blah, blah. I just cannot imagine you meet this guy. You later find out everything was a lie. and you're trying to get to the truth of something and you feel like you're on to something, it would be,

and maybe she's right. Honestly, maybe he was D.B. Cooper. But I really just think what he was more than anything was a guy who loved to manipulate women. Yeah, and it sounds like maybe he really didn't have the training or expertise to pull off what D.B. Cooper did. Well, the one thing I'll say about that is, yeah, that's, that's,

That's a good point. A con artist, though, an experienced con artist, I feel like they can be a quick study. And remember, the skydiving expert had said, yeah, someone could do what D.B. Cooper did successfully after six or seven jumps with an instructor. So a lot of these other suspects were experts. This guy was definitely not an expert at that. But I don't think that means we can rule him out. Yeah, but like the knowledge of the planes and like doing those kinds of jumps and knowledge of the area, I don't know. I'm not buying this guy.

He just sounds like a con artist to me. All right. Serve an ass to women back home. He thinks you're cute. He thinks you're really cute. And he wants to stand close to you. Which side do you keep your wallet on? You know, they always say men should keep their wallets in their front pockets.

I've always thought it must be kind of uncomfied. It is uncomfortable. Yeah, it's bad for your back. It's tough to be a guy, huh? It's, you know, shout out to all the guys out there. Oh, let's hear it for the boys. Let's hear it for the boys. Okay, Kristen, I believe we have one award left.

Yeah, this is the big one. I've saved my favorite for last. You saved the best for last. Yeah, I think so. Well, this is like the best picture category at the Oscars. Yeah, we started with the lighting awards. Then we did, I'm sorry, costumes. You know, like, we did that.

Yeah, yeah. makeup. Uh-huh. Daytime Emmys, we're at the beginning of the episode now. We're getting to the real stuff. Okay, okay.

Okay. This is the final award of the evening. And I think that if we all just use our imaginations a little, we might decide

that this guy, this guy right here, Richard McCoy, will get the Spanx Award for almost perfectly fitting. Okay, you said yes. You know this man? I know about

Richard McCoy. Yes. Who was Richard McCoy? Former military. He did two tours of duty in Vietnam. He was an expert in explosives. He joined the Green Berets as a helicopter pilot. He was an avid skydiver.

In the military, he demonstrated remarkable calm under pressure. For example, once, when an American helicopter had engine trouble and was forced to land in an area where they definitely did not want to land, another helicopter came to rescue it, but then they had engine trouble, went down, and in the process, both of those helicopters caught fire. Ooh. So Richard, who was flying another helicopter, very bravely, got down as close as he could to the scene, got out of the helicopter, found two survivors, and saved their lives, brought them to safety. So he's a hero. Yeah, maybe. Another time, he was flying in an area with thick fog.

He had no tactical map, but somehow he found his target. He opened fire. Again, I know we call them heroes, but, you know, a lot of death, a lot of awfulness. My main point in bringing this up, because this is not a happy story, but it's to demonstrate that from a very early age, Richard demonstrated that he was smart, comfortable in high pressure, life and death situations, and somehow always managed to escape by the skin of his teeth. Okay, okay. He'd been born in North Carolina, but later moved to Utah. He enrolled at Brigham Young University.

Go coogs. Really? Are they the cougars? I think they're the cougars, yeah. How cute. He married a woman named Karen. They had two children, Chante and Rich. Richard wanted to go into law enforcement. Maybe the FBI.

He certainly had the skills. This was after his military career. Yeah. Okay. At BYU, he wrote a paper about the different ways that authorities could cut down on hijackings, because, you know, it was a big problem. Yeah. Richard McCoy's life definitely wasn't perfect. Money was tight.

Way too tight. His wife's sister, Denise, lived with them. And after his second tour in Vietnam, Richard developed these terrible migraines. They were so bad that sometimes he randomly blacked out. And those random blackouts would be awful for any. anyone for many reasons. But they were especially tough for him because it meant that no one would ever trust him to fly a plane again.

What would happen if he passed out? So could that be where the grudge is from? Yeah, maybe. Okay. He was this smart, talented guy who was financially strapped and who also felt like the future that he'd envisioned for himself and that he'd worked for had been taken away through no fault of his own. And maybe it was because he was writing the paper about hijackings,

or maybe it was because he was plotting something. But around this time, he asked a good friend of his, a state trooper. Hey, do you think it would be possible to parachute out of a commercial airplane? He just asked his buddy this? Yeah, you know, just making conversation. How much, hey, how much money do you think you could get in ransom? Like, what's a reasonable ask? What do you think they could get together?

Also, if you did that, where would you want to land? He asked his sister-in-law, Denise, similar questions. He asked her, Yeah, yeah, if I jumped out of an airplane and I was off in some weird far-off remote location, would you come pick me up? Would you do that for me? What? What?

He's just asking questions. Purely hypothetical. Oh, I'm sorry. Am I not allowed to ask questions? Sorry. And then on, thanks a lot. Thanksgiving Eve, 1971, D.B. Cooper hijacked that plane and parachuted out of it. What a terrible thing. And then four months later, on April 7, 1972, Richard McCoy walked into Denver International Airport and purchased a one-way ticket to L.A.

Under the name, James Johnson. Just like D.B. Cooper, he sat in the last row of the plane. He handed a note to one of the flight attendants. It was typed. It read, we have a grenade. The pin has been pulled. We have pistols. They are loaded. We have C4 plastic explosives. We? We.

Do you have an accomplice, or is he just fooling people? He had a tickle me Elmo doll. Oh, Kristen. I'm sorry. That was not right. Those didn't come out to the 90s. I apologize. Yep.

Yep. They would also been like, this guy's, this guy's nuts. He thinks the doll is alive. He keeps the dog. touching that doll. He's tickling it for some reason. Okay, before we go any further. Yeah.

You know, you say D.B. Cooper, you know, did this thing Thanksgiving Eve. So did Richard McCoy, did they talk to his family? Like, hey, where was Richard McCoy on Thanksgiving Eve? Why would they do that? Well, I'm guess. He's just now committing a hijacking. Okay, I'm getting too far ahead of myself. You sure are.

Okay. I am sorry. Let me. Fall back. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay. You're getting a little excited.

I am getting very excited. Okay. Continue. He demanded $500,000. And just like D.B. Cooper demanded four parachutes. Investigators wanted to talk to his family. I'm sorry. That's way too soon in the story.

Hey. He let the passengers de plane, just like D.B. Cooper had. And again, just like D.B. Cooper, after the plane took off, He lowered the rear stairs, or aft stairs, as some of us say, and parachuted out with the ransom money in tow. He'd worn sunglasses. He'd worn a toupee. He'd covered his skin in tan makeup. Richard McCoy survived the jump. He landed on top of the ransom money. And as soon as he hit the ground, he ran. He ran and ran and ran until he spotted a drive-in restaurant. He ordered a large Coca-Cola. I'm thirsty.

Hijacking a plane makes me thirsty. He hitched a ride with some kid. And as they drove, they listened to the radio. There was a breaking news story. Someone had just hijacked a plane and parachuted out of it again. Do you have the DJ Caled another one? Another one. Yeah.

When Richard got home, his sister. sister-in-law Denise was onto him. So was his friend, the state trooper. Denise was like, your friend has called twice. He thinks that you're the guy who hijacked that plane. Is he right? Did you do it? You can tell me. Did you do it? You know all those questions you were asking me a couple weeks ago? Maybe you shouldn't have done all that. Is that maybe irrelevant now? A few days later, Richard was getting ready for National Guard duty when the FBI arrested him. And they must have been pleased as punch because the evidence was all. right there in the McCoy home.

Just a giant bag of money in the entryway right by the shoes. They found the parachute, the helmet, a pistol, $49,970 in cash. Poor guy had only spent $30. That diner. Richards' trial was a slam dunk for the prosecution. The dude had been caught. He was sentenced to 45 years in prison. but for the FBI and for really everybody, including Norman Caruso.

The question wasn't did Richard McCoy commit the hijacking in April. The question was, was Richard McCoy also DB Cooper? He wasn't the perfect fit. Richard was just 29 at the time of the DB Cooper hijacking. Yeah, just to preface it, I don't think Richard McCoy is DB Cooper. You don't? No. Why not?

Well, go on. Go on. We'll talk about it. All right. Eyewitnesses had said that the hijacker was in his mid-40s. Plus, even though I personally thinks he looks... I'm about to say he looks like the first FBI sketch. I've said that about every dude we've brought up.

Yeah, and all the witnesses were like, that's a terrible sketch. I know. Quit that checking me. There's another detail that makes him not perfect for this. Richard, much like myself, has very prominent ears. They're stick-em-outies. Stick-em-outies. Stick-em-outies.

Surely the flight attendants would have noticed those big dumbo ears. They would have featured prominently in the sketch. But there were so many other factors working in his favor. D.B. Cooper had left a clip on necktie and the tie pin on the plane. Investigators showed the tie and tie-pin to his sister-in-law Denise and his mother-in-law, and both women confirmed that the tie and tie clip belonging. to Richard. They showed it to Richard's friend, the state trooper. He couldn't say for sure that Richard had owned that specific tie, but he was like, well, I mean, Richard did like to wear

skinny, solid-colored clip-on ties. That specific tie? They looked at the tie and they're like, that is definitely Richard's tie. Yeah, and with the tie clip, I don't see why that's so crazy. I've seen him wear that before, yeah. Yeah, but it's at, It's available at JCPenny's. It was available nationwide. It was out of style, Norm. Yeah, but it was available nationwide for people to buy. Okay, but not as a set with that tie clip.

And they are saying the tie clip and the tie, yes, he wore that. I'm not buying it. Why not? Are you secretly Richard McCoy? No. Well, for real, why not? You're getting in the slumber, you freak. Yeah, I'm just, it's a tie that was sold at J.C.

penny. I just don't know how his family could be like, yeah, that's definitely Richard's tie. Okay, maybe they're not saying that is exactly his tie, but they are saying, okay, you're asking me, did he own something like this? Have I seen him in something like this? Yes, I have. Okay, that's fine, but I just, I don't think you can take that and be like, that, yeah, that means he's D.B. Cooper. I am not saying that. I know. But see, you add up all the circumstantial evidence and you've got something strong. Okay.

I don't see what motive they would have to lie about that. Okay. You. Continue, Kristen. They dug into his background. What had he been doing on Thanksgiving of 1971? Mm-hmm. They pulled credit card statements.

They pulled phone records. And they found something interesting. On the morning of the D.B. Cooper hijacking, Richard used his credit card to get gas. But he didn't get gas at home in Provo, Utah. He got it in Cedar City, which is on the way to Las Vegas. At 10.41 p.m. on Thanksgiving, the day after the hijacking, someone made a collect call from the lobby of the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas to the McCoy home in Utah. then a short while later Richard's credit card was used to purchase gas two miles

from the Tropicana Hotel near the airport so investigators developed a theory and it's a little convoluted so stay with me. Yeah yeah let's hear this on the day of the hijacking Richard drove toward Las Vegas stopping in Cedar City for gas

when he arrived in Las Vegas he boarded a flight to Portland from there he purchased a ticket for the flight to Seattle Then he did his little DB Cooper thing. And after he jumped, Richard went back to Portland, flew from Portland to Vegas, got into his car, which he'd had waiting for him at the airport,

stopped at the Tropicana Hotel lobby to call home, stopped for gas, and headed back home to Utah. What? What? No way. Why not? No way. Why not?

What? Do I need to give this to you, this tinfoil hat? Do I need to give you a smart hat? Let me get this straight. Uh-huh. You're saying he drove. The investigators are saying I am, I'm just. They are theorizing.

He drove from Utah to Las Vegas. Got on a plane from Las, is there any record of him being on the flight from Las Vegas to Portland? Why would there be records? There's no security. you don't have to show an ID. No, of course not. Don't they have a passenger log? With fake names?

You think he went on and said, I'm Richard McCoy? No. No. Couldn't they interview people at the ticket counter? Hey, you remember selling a ticket to this guy? Anyway, let me make my point. Six months ago, you sold a ticket.

Flew from Vegas to Portland, then buys a ticket, Portland to Seattle. He does the hijacking. And then flying from Seattle, Seattle to Mexico, but he jumps out of that flight. And then he goes back to Portland. And then flies from Portland back to Vegas. Yeah, that's too much.

Why is it too much? They were at half, like, okay, so there's a lot of unanswered questions. He jumps out. How does he get back to Portland? Probably hitchhikes. He hitchhikes to Portland? Probably. I mean, I don't know.

But he's south of Seattle. I mean, how far is that? I don't know. But all in the span of a day? No way. In the 70s? People were hitchhiking like nobody's business. Kristen.

Yes. How many, I'm going to look this up. Don't try to talk logically to me when you've got a tinfoil hat on. Hang on. I'm going to see how far that hitchhike is. Everyone, I can tell you're all on my side and I appreciate it very much. Kristen. Norman.

It's a hundred and six. 61 miles from where they think D.B. Cooper landed to Portland. I'm sorry, I meant Portland is south of Seattle. Uh-huh. So he hitchhiked 161 miles. Maybe he hitchhiked. Who knows? Maybe he found a bear.

And he rode that bear. Found a magical unicorn. And it sprouted wings and took him... Took him to the Seattle airport. You know what? rude you're mean that that's a ridiculous uh set of events yeah i gotta tell you all right all right yeah and i guess it does see i mean this guy is asking his family hey what would you do if i hijacked the plane did this to this and they think he was capable of pulling off some heist like

that yeah he's just a copycat he just copied what d b cooper did yeah no no you've you've kind of convinced me the spanks award it just doesn't fit well as i i know about this suspect just because he did the copycat like right after d b cooper yeah maybe he was d b cooper you think also he was 29 yeah he was 29 but he looked rough as hell yeah and i'm sorry i've seen a picture of him he He's got a youthful glow? No, he kind of looks like a... He's got a real, like, mousy look to him. Hold on.

Let me pull him up. With his ears, I mean, if you give a mouse a parachute. I mean, those ears, they're pretty funny. Yeah. And the sideburns. Somehow I think the sideburns are not helping the ears. They kind of outline. Yeah, they're like, here's how big my ears are.

Yeah, sorry. Sorry, Kristen. I'm not buying. Well, I'm not done talking about him. All right, all right. Investigators, of course, asked Richard McCoy about his whereabouts on Thanksgiving of 1971. They asked him if he was D.B. Cooper. He didn't admit to anything.

He claimed he'd been home on Thanksgiving. He'd been helping Karen make dinner. What do you think of that? Okay. Did they then ask Karen, was Richard home on Thanksgiving helping you make dinner? They know he wasn't. Mm-hmm. The credit card statements.

Uh-huh. The collect call. Okay. He's lying. Okay. That's fair. I forgot about that. Yeah.

He's lying. Okay. And his wife is going to lie for him. Don't you think? Well, I don't know. Oh, my gosh. See, this is how I know. I can't commit a crime.

You would snitch on me so fast. So fast. Yep. I definitely think it was Kristen. Here's all the information I have. Wow, she wasn't even on our suspect list. Yep, I know, but I just have a feeling. Richard remained calm throughout the interrogation.

When they asked him about the collect call from the Tropicana Hotel, he pointed out that they couldn't prove that he'd been the one to make that call. Which means he definitely did make the call. In the interrogation, he admitted to drinking liquor a few times in his life, but never smoking. He wasn't a smoker. Okay, you know what? The FBI had another little theory

that I just know you're going to take a big steamy dump on, but I think it's kind of cute, frankly, all right? Okay. What's that? So he's not a smoker, but maybe he's smoking as a cover when he's D.B. Cooper. Right. How did he decide on those Raleigh-brand cigarettes?

A very unpopular, weird brand cheats. Because they were the cheapest, and he doesn't know any better. So he just buys the cheapest cigarettes. They were the cheapest. That would be a factor. He didn't have a lot of money. But their thought was, oh, he's from North Carolina. He's being kind of cute, picking out the Raleigh ones. I mean, if he's from North Carolina, he would probably know tons of cigarette brands. Yeah, but why not go with the one that says Raleigh on it from, you know, your home state? Sure. Sure. I know. That's kind of dumb.

The day after his second interview with the FBI, Richard was taken to a county jail. in Brighton, Colorado. He was supposed to spend the night there, and then the next day, go to federal prison. But on that next day, the sheriff was just trying to get the group of guys together who were supposed to go down to the courthouse for their arraignments,

and he was calling out names, and people were like, yeah, here, okay, they got in line. And the sheriff read some dude's name aloud, and nobody raised their hands. And Richard was looking around like, hmm. And so then Richard raised his hand. Yep, I'm Benjamin. That's me.

My name's Ben. He took someone's identity. So they took Richard to the courthouse, thinking he was some other dude entirely. And as they strolled through the halls of justice, Richard told the sheriff, oh, no, I got to go to the bathroom real bad. Oh, my God. And the sheriff was like, ew, God, okay. And he uncuffed Richard. And Richard took on.

Yeah. But they caught him a few blocks away. Oh. I'm assuming he was still in his cute little jumpsuit or something. I don't know. Very stylish. Yeah. So, yeah, they took him to federal prison.

And he stayed there for a minute. But then in prison, he ripped a picture of a gun out of a magazine. He stole a block of wax from the dental lab. He got both those things to a particularly artistic prison pal. And he was like, dude, well, you sculpt me a realistically. looking gun out of this wax. And he gave him a reference image? Well, yeah, you know.

Sculp me like one of your French girls. Scult me like a real gun so we can bust out of here. Yeah. In August of 1974. What if Richard was like, I want you to sculpt the gun and he just got nude and held the gun. What if it takes? Pay attention to the gun. Don't look at me.

Don't look at me. Purve. Geez. in August of 1974 Richard and three of his prison pals crashed a garbage truck through a gate in the prison and boom

disappeared into the Pennsylvania mountains they were gone they drove down to North Carolina they shaved each other's heads they stole a car they robbed a bank but the feds were looking for him and at one point they spotted them the feds were in a helicopter

flying over the escaped convict's vehicle and the feds started blasting and the four do the were like, you're like, and they bailed out. Richard and one of the dudes managed to stay together. They went to Gatlinburg, Tennessee, and they stayed at a Howard Johnson, but it was not a nice place. So they decided, fuck it.

We made all that money robbing a bank. Why not live it up? Oh, no. So Richard bought his daughter a birthday present. Guess what it was? A little girl. A car. No, a little girl.

Oh, a diamond. Diamond jewelry. For a little girl? Well, you're making it sound like he did something crazy. A horse. A horse. He and his prison pal got an apartment in Virginia Beach. They filled it with lots of nice decor and a ton of weapons. They became roommates?

Yes, why not? In Virginia Beach? Yeah. My old stomping ground. Richard began planning his next hijacking. They went for runs together because they wanted to be in shape for the hijacking. I think it's not cute. It's not cute, but it's kind of fun.

It kind of sounds like a fun sitcom. If it were a movie, we'd be like, this is stupid, this is too unrealistic, but it's so fun that it was real. Also, I, you know, I don't like it, but also. I love that they got an apartment together and worked out for their next scheme. But then one night, they pulled up to their apartment in Virginia Beach. They didn't know that the FBI had staked them out. And as Richard approached the door, he heard something. He reached for his gun.

but he was a little too late. An FBI agent shot and killed him. Wow. End of story. So, was Richard McCoy D.B. Cooper? No. For what it's worth, his children think so. They waited until their mom passed away

before they said publicly that they think he did it. There's something sweet about that, I think. Yeah, maybe they didn't want to put their mom through all that. Sure, sure. Sure. And just a few years ago, a YouTuber slash amateur investigator announced that he discovered a parachute tucked away in Richard McCoy's mother's shed in North Carolina.

He says he gave it to the FBI. And of course he thinks that it's the parachute that he used for D.B. Cooper. But who knows? I mean, he could be just a parachute. Well, and he had parachutes for his copycat hijacking, too. Right. I mean, if they can prove that that parachute came from the skydiving school in Washington or wherever? Because isn't that where

D.B. Cooper got his parachute? Yeah. If they can prove it came from there, then that's huge, but like... It would be, but I mean, this was a couple years ago and nothing's really come from it, so I kind of... Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I have this whole thing about... Oh, in fairness, there are good reasons to eliminate him

as a suspect. See, I thought you'd be like on the train with me. We'd be chew, chew, chew in on the Richard McCoy train, but instead you're like, this is dumb, I'm bailing. Come on ride this train. I'm jumping off. So yeah, he was 29. Yep. He had the wrong eye color.

Yep. His eyes were blue. All three of the flight attendants were shown pictures of Richard McCoy, and they were like, mm, not him. Yeah. But still. No. He seems like he maybe could have done it right.

No, he's a copy cat. Oh, come on. And the reason, we are concluding this award show by presenting Richard McCoy, Jr., with the Spanx Award, because it almost fits. It's almost perfect. We just have to squiddell. little and hold our breath and let's close this case. Wow.

What'd you think of our final suspect, Norm? One of the more famous suspects, but not D.B. Cooper. Folks, we're done handing out awards this evening. But before we go, let's talk about the good that came from D.B. Cooper. Oh. First of all, we got one hell of a mystery. We love that. But also, D.B. Cooper, in his own strange way,

made flying a lot safer. After the hijacking, the Federal Aviation Administration made some changes. They demanded that all Boeing 727s be fitted with Cooper veins. Their little latches on the outside of the plane that prevent people from overriding the cockpit and opening the door mid-flight. A good change. Very good. Also, airport security became a thing. By 1973, the FAA required airlock.

lines to search passengers and their bags. And suddenly, it became much harder to get on an airplane with an arsenal of weapons and a dream of parachuting out into the night sky. Another good change! Well, if you hate freedom. And with that, we conclude our series on D.B. Cooper. And we wish all of you a happy holiday season. Please join us at the Crystal Light After Party.

These award shows always have killer after parties, and ours is no exception. I don't think Crystalite has ever sponsored the Oscars, but it sounds like they're sponsoring us, huh? It sounds like that. It sounds like they are. Are they, though? When the cease and desist letter comes, we might have to do a little retraction. Listen, they're all about free press. Yeah.

They will happily take free advertising from an old-timey podcast. So who stood out to you? Gosh. Kenneth Christensen. Yeah. And the, shoot, what was his name? Ted? The CIA guy?

Yeah. Yeah. CIA guy stands out. Kenneth Christensen, the guy who was an excellent parachuteer, worked for Northwest Airlines. I think he's a good one too. I also think that really cool guy Sheridan. Who knows? He could just be a cool guy.

Which is not a crime. Yeah, of course, you know, there is also the very real scenario of D.B. Cooper died. Toyota Camry Award farted a party. I know. And his, there's a meme of like, there's like a drawing of D.B. Cooper as a skeleton with the parachute still on his backpack holding a bag of money. It's like, we're looking for this person. It's like, we're hoping we can find. find that somewhere in the woods out there.

But, I mean, we've talked about if he landed in the water. Yeah. You know, who knows? I also wonder, like, I wish, almost more than anything, I wish we could figure out for Joe what Dwayne Weber's real deal was, just to give her that piece. Because I cannot imagine being put through all that bullshit. Well, yeah, and to find, like, after he dies, you get his driver's license with a totally different name and totally different backstory.

Oh, he's basically like the 17 years. I think they were married for 17 years, but like, yeah, those 17 years we had together, that was like the longest stretch of his life that he didn't spend in prison. Yeah. What a wild thing to discover about somebody. Do you think he conned her out of stuff? I'm sure. I don't see.

And even if the con is this right now, saying on his deathbed. I'm Dan Cooper. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe all those memories are just. like things, well, it's kind of like that codebreaker guy of like, okay, you have this thing and you're looking for evidence to support it. And so maybe you're just grasping at straws pulling stuff out of nowhere.

Yeah. Or maybe she's right. And who knows. It's part of the fun of D.B. Cooper, though. It's the mystery around it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we'll ever solve D.B. Cooper.

I don't think so either. I know I proclaimed in episode one we would solve it, but I'm stumped. folks. The only hope I have, and this is another tinfoil hat thing, I kept thinking today, how ridiculous that they lost the two hairs and they lost the eight cigarette butts. But then I started thinking, okay, if I were the FBI and I could set my ego aside, wouldn't it be kind of smart to say, oh yeah, the DNA evidence, we lost it? Then, that might make people more comfortable confessing to the crime, knowing, well, they can never, although, I mean, whoever did it, it's definitely dead by now, not just dead in the moment,

but like they're too old now. Oh, we don't know that. We don't know it, but I mean, we kind of know it. But, I mean, when they first said, like, oh, we don't have this stuff anymore, I do wonder if that could have been a strategy. Maybe I just want, why are you smiling at me? I'm just imagining, you know, the thing that Willard Scott did on the Today Show with the Smucker's birthday. I mean, one of you was like, happy birthday to Dan Cooper, 105 years old today.

Oh, this young man. Says he really enjoys parachuting, young at heart. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of what I'm thinking that maybe that could be a tactic to try to get somebody to confess, thinking, well, it can never really be penned on me and then. Ha! ha! I got you, bitch! Yeah, it's probably too late. I mean, the FBI could even just be like, hey, we've closed the case, we've got rid of the in absentia thing. Like, we can't, we can't prosecute anybody anymore.

So just come on out and confess. Bygones be bygones. We're not even mad. Not mad. You didn't kill anybody, so it's fine. And you get to keep the money because you've stumped us. As a reward, you can keep the money. I think the dude's definitely dead by now.

He's probably dead. Yeah. Well, Kristen, that was a great series on everyone's favorite mystery, D.B. Cooper. Thank you. And that's our final episode for 2025. Heck you. Although we do have a bonus episode this. Yeah.

Yeah. You history hoes, we've got stuff to do. If you're listening to this episode on the day it drops, we've got trivia tonight. Tune in. Play. I was about to say play with us, but I didn't know if that sounded weird. Two adults, one of them in a tinfoil hat with those. fallic handle.

Come play with us. Okay. And yeah, the bonus episode is dropping, baby. Heck yeah. Do you want to talk about it or? Absolutely not. Oh my God. Okay.

Okay. You want to dance. You got to pay the band. Okay. I didn't know if you wanted to tease it a little. Absolutely not. Okay. It's a mystery, just like D.B. Cooper.

All right. Great. Well, with that, Chris, should we wrap up 2025 of an old-timey podcast? Yes. Okay. I was waiting for you to answer that. Okay. You know what they say about history, hoes?

We always cite our sources. That's right. For this episode, I got my information from the book, Skyjack, The Hunt for D.B. Cooper by Jeffrey Gray, the FBI files, the documentary, the mystery of D.B. Cooper, as well as reporting from Rolling Stone and History.com and the Oregonian. Plus more, check the show notes for a full list of our sources. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe.

Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community, R-slash-old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. I'm at Kristen Pitts-Keruso,

and he's at Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tooteloo, Tata, and Cheerio. Goodbye. See ya. Wait, wait a second. Wait. Just a minute.

Bye.