An Old Timey Podcast - 90: James Garfield Fights For The Presidency (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

As James Garfield’s surprise presidential campaign got underway, he knew he didn’t have it in the bag. The Republican party was divided. The Democratic party was united. And there was some weirdo third-party candidate campaigning for an 8-hour workday. *I guess people don’t wanna work anymore!?*The fact that many members of his party — including his own vice president — were, at best, mildly enthusiastic about his candidacy made his road to victory even less likely. And yet? A strange little man named Charles Guiteau campaigned hard for Garfield. He was convinced that he’d be rewarded for his efforts. Remember, kids, history hoes always cite their sources! For this episode, Kristin pulled from: The book, “Destiny of the Republic: A Tale of Madness, Medicine, and the Murder of a President,” by Candice MillardThe book, “Dark Horse: The Surprise Election and Political Murder of President James A. Garfield,” by Kenneth D. Ackerman“Murder of a President” documentary and additional resources from PBS.orgAre you enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Then please leave us a 5-star rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts!Are you *really* enjoying An Old Timey Podcast? Well, calm down, history ho! You can get more of us on Patreon at patreon.com/oldtimeypodcast. At the $5 level, you’ll get a monthly bonus episode (with video!), access to our 90’s style chat room, plus the entire back catalog of bonus episodes from Kristin’s previous podcast, Let’s Go To Court.

Hear ye, hear ye. You are listening to an old-timey podcast. I'm Kristen Caruso. And I'm Norman Caruso. And on this episode, James Garfield runs for president. Part two. We're ready to party. We're ready. What? I hope you bring lots of spaghetti. Oh, is this a Garfield song? It's the Garfield and Friends theme song. Oh my God. What if, just to be a dick. I was doing this series. And in the middle of it, People are hooked because, you know, they just have to be. I do just an episode about Garfield, the cartoon, totally in the middle of this series.

And you say, oh, I confused my notes. I've got a future... Ooh, it's amazing. Doing a future episode on the Garfield and Friends cartoon show from 1994. So, folks, a lot of people don't know that the American of People elected a cartoon cat for president, but the 1800s were weird. Oh, yeah, you got your notes all mixed up. Really intermingled. Oh my gosh.

I'm ready to go, but okay, no, you've got stuff to say. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Tap the brakes there, Missy. I've got no breaks and I'm going down to hill. Because I have to tell a very troubling story to our listeners. Oh. You know, the other night, you and I were getting ready for bed in the bathroom.

Okay. I don't know that this is appropriate. We're both at the double vanity. Uh-huh. I bent down to get a cue tip out of the drawer. Uh-huh. And that's when you unleashed... Norman.

The most earth-shattering belch of all time. Norman! This is all true. Also, how dare you add that to the soundboard? Now people are going to be calling for us to get rid of the soundboard again. Well, this is what the people wanted, okay? Ew, stop. Listen, in a matter of seconds, I was trapped inside the noxious fumes

of your burp. It was like a spicy combo of black beans and some onion. To be fair, I belched and then you put your face into it. So you kind of came into my zone. The order of operations, you know,

it's questionable what exactly happened. But either way, I was trapped inside the noxious fumes. My eyes were watering. I couldn't see. I was like grabbing something that I could hold on to. But luckily, we had bathroom fan on, it swooped it right out of there. But I was very upset by the whole experience.

But, Kristen, do you know what lifted my spirits? What? Knowing that our listeners can support this small, sexy, independent podcast for only $5 a month over at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. That the whole time, I was like, how does this lead to people paying us $5? And I don't know that you did a great job. tying that thing together. Kristen, do you understand what people get for $5?

I don't. They get access to our Discord chat and the entire catalog of old-timey bonus episodes with full video. And right now, we've got 22 of these bad boys. In our last bonus episode, Kristen's father taught us about consensual sex. Oh, my God. It was incredibly enlightening. Sexy times. So please consider supporting us over on patreon.com slash a

time you podcast. Incredibly enlightening. And help me heal from that traumatic belching experience. Thank you. Kristen, take it away. I just want to say, when a grown man goes to the zoo and he jumps into the gorilla cage, are we really going to be mad at the gorilla for what happens next? You're saying I entered your natural habitat where you belch out loud and... Breathe in all those fumes. You came into my cloud, buddy. Yeah. You do this in public, too.

Belch and fart. No. If someone's like, oh, my. And you're just like, well, you walk near me, buddy. This is the privilege of being married to me. Okay? You're welcome. I do love being married to you.

Oh, you're so sweet. Yeah. I love being married. Okay, this is, now it's cheesy. It went from gross to cheesy to cheesy to give us five bucks. We're off to a weird start with this episode. But this episode is kind of weird, too.

Why is it weird? I guess I'll find out, huh? Yeah, yeah. You ready? Previously, what, Norman? You don't have headphones on. You can't hear it. Everyone.

I got to turn it off right out because you're talking. Okay. Everyone. We're not wearing headphones anymore. I, oh man, you know, see, now if I, if I, if I do an episode that's about Garfield, the cartoon cat, they'll be like, well, this makes sense, she is very stupid. Oh, man, Kristen mixed up her notes again. Okay, let's try that again. Previously on an old-timey podcast.

Senator-elect James Garfield went to the 1880, Republican National Convention where he made a speech nominating some other dude for president. But surprise, surprise, surprise, through no real desire of his own, James Garfield himself, oopsie daisy, became the Republican nominee for president. But oh, his nomination pissed off some very important Republicans. Namely, Ulysses-ask Grant, he'd already served two terms as president, and he'd already served two terms as president and it hadn't even occurred to him that he wouldn't get a third term. It wasn't fair. He was taking his cannonball and going home. But no one, and I mean no one,

had a bigger poopy-booty-a-duty attitudee than New York Senator and political boss Roscoe Conkling. Poohy-booty-a-toity. I'm so proud of myself for not laughing. He was mad because, um, hello. He didn't. He didn't. He didn't. He was mad. He didn't. He told everyone who to vote for, and he hadn't said Garfield. Roscoe Conkling was mad. But how mad was he? Well, at the end of last week's episode, when Roscoe Conkling was having an absolute crash-out, one of his cronies, nay, his yesiest yes man, a dude named Chester A. Arthur,

a man who'd never once held political office, came to Roscoe with Big news. He, Chester A. Arthur, had been asked to run as James Garfield's vice president. Using our good friends, facts, and logic, one might think that Roscoe Conkling had been thrilled to hear that one of his political henchmen had been asked to join the presidential ticket. But was Roscoe Conkling man enough to see that this was, in fact, a big win? for him or? Was Roscoe Conkling the type of guy who said, No, I didn't think of this idea and that means it's bad? Let's find out together, shall we?

On this week's episode, James Garfield campaigns for president. Will he win? The results may shock you. I don't know if they're going to shock anybody. If you're dumb, they're going to shock you. You don't know anything. If you know literally nothing about this story, and you didn't have one of those cool post-react.

of all the presidents in your elementary school classroom, then this is going to be a surprise. I remember reading those posters and feeling sad when I saw that, you know, James Garfield only had one year under his little portrait. Well, spoiler. Oh, shut up. I loved, I've always been fascinated by the presidents. Yeah, I'm just saying I felt sad when it was like they only had one year and, you know, young Norman was like, what happened to them?

And then your teacher took you aside. and said, I'm going to give you a 12-part series on this. Don't worry, folks. It's not going to be 12 parts. But, you know, who knows, I don't really have it mapped out too well. You know, one time I proved my teacher wrong in social studies class. Oh, boy, I bet you weren't smug about it at all. What happened?

I got everyone stood in clapped. Oh, yeah. I'm sure they did. I'm sure. No, it, honestly, it, I can't even remember what we were talking about. But I mentioned, you know, it's weird that, like, on our currency, it's all presidents, except Benjamin Franklin. Yeah.

And my teacher was like, Benjamin Franklin was a president. Oh, Lord. This was a social studies teacher? Yeah, in middle school. And I was like, no, he wasn't. We had the presidential poster on the wall. Oh, this teacher. And she was like, go to the poster and show me Benjamin Franklin on there.

And I walked up there. And I was like, because, you know, obviously I thought, well, maybe I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure he wasn't. This is the teacher. She has the poster in her own classroom. I took my little finger and I scrolled through the poster and he wasn't there. And I was like, yeah, he's not on here. She went and looked at it and she was like, oh, okay, yeah, my mistake.

You're right. And the classroom cheered and applauded me. You almost said in the audience. I did almost say in the audience. We all salute you, young Normie C. Thank you. That's probably the coolest I have ever felt in school ever. Absolutely.

And it was sharing a fact. All right. Here we go! But oh, wait, fellas, could we tap the breaks for just a minute? In the wake of the surprise nomination, James Garfield wasn't really prepared for the sudden spotlight and scrutiny of a presidential nomination. Neither, for that matter, was his kind of introverted wife, Lucretia, or their five-church. children. But that was too bad.

Lucretia. I kind of like it. That's a name. He called her creep. Crete. Crete. Which sounds like a little bug, but kind of a cute little bug, don't you agree? It kind of sounds like creep. Oh. No, I, am I weird? I kind of like Lucretia.

It's a good, old-timey name. Lucretia also kind of sounds like secretion, too. That's nasty. Huh. I guess you're right. Well, all right. Well, we're on an unexpected tangent here. I'm going to ask you to keep your secretions to yourself so I can tell this tale, all right? Well, here's the thing. We can't judge because, Kristen, you have a...

What? You have a distant relative whose name was Gooch. My family tree is filled with really unfortunate names, last names, and first names. Yeah. Yeah, I've got pretty normal ones, like Joseph or... Yeah. Julian. Uh-huh.

Tried and true. We got creative on my family tree. Elizabeth. And then you come in with Liner Gouche. Yeah. Yeah. It's bad enough. The last name was Gouche.

But you name your son Liner? Mm-hmm. My God. How stinky. Anyway, thanks to that fantastic speech he'd given at the Republican National Convention, the eyes of the nation were now on James Garfield and his secreting family. That's enough. That's my only one.

People wanted to know all about the dark horse candidate who'd taken the Republican National Convention by storm. And so, ready or not, here we come. The presidential campaign of 1880 took off. Ready or not, here I go. Oh, I wondered why you looked so excited. It was almost like you were going to run for office. Hell no, I would never run for president. Oh, it would be hell.

In a lot of ways, the presidential campaigns of old timey times were a lot like the ones we still have today. There twas, political theater, fun slogans, posters, mean political cartoons. But wait, there's more. There was also hand-wringing over, mostly made-up scandals, and downplaying very real scandals, and so many trips to Iowa. Wait, were there a lot of trips to Iowa? No, that was a joke.

Well, you got to tell me to save you. We can't be spread misinformation on this podcast. I thought people would kind of know that was a joke. Well, as you said earlier, Kristen, some of our listeners might be really dumb. They don't know anything about this story. Okay. I did have a question, though. Yeah?

The presidential campaigns back then, obviously today with like the Internet and the 24-hour news, campaigns can feel like they last years. Oh, they feel like they're always happening. Yeah. You know, in Europe, they have rules about this shit, which... Right. Which we should really bring over here. Yes, yes. But unfortunately, politics has become a form of entertainment over here.

It makes a lot of money. But let's not get into all that. I listen to this podcast for the history, not for your weird political asides, sir. You're right. We've gotten this feedback before. I apologize. But I'm wondering for 1880, when... was he nominated August?

I think it was June. June. Okay. So his campaign was really five months-ish. Yeah, it was a quick one. Yeah, that's not bad. Not at all. God, love it.

Can we go back? You know, the one major thing. I don't think we should go back to everything from 1880. That's not what I'm saying, Norm. All right. The one major thing, sir, aside from what you brought up, Grief. The one major thing that set old time...

Are you... Sorry. I don't think there's anything wrong with Shepard but equal. As a white woman, I can't vote, but you know what? I don't think I deserve to vote. I'd probably mess it up anyway. I miss it up.

You know, every time I go to a voting. booth. I go to cast my boat. My titty's get in the way and my tampon falls out and it's pure chaos because a bear smells it and then a whole mess of bears come running and it's just a mess and that's why

maybe we should go back to all times. Yeah. Because until women start going to the polls with bear mace what are we doing? Yeah, women on their periods voting, you're tracking all the bears

innocent people are dying. Okay. This is real. This is real. Everyone, in case you couldn't tell, we've had kind of a weird day. Oh, we're good. We're good. All right.

Let's get back on track here. It's an evening recording. We're a little loopy. It's a Friday night. Woo-hoo. We're partying. We're podcasting. Our coolest moments were when Norm corrected a teacher in middle school and my crowning

achievement was probably something to do with making my high school yearbook. We're very cool people having a great Friday night. Absolutely. We hope you enjoy listening to this. Anyhow, back to the sentence that I've tried to say five times now. One major thing that set old-timey presidential campaigns apart from modern presidential campaigns, Norman, was that back in 1880, it was seen as undignified for a presidential candidate to actually, you know, travel the United States. Yeah, yeah.

You're campaigning for presidency. Yeah, you sent your little lackeys out to campaign for. No, you want your big lackeys. You want small, medium big. You want them all. Yes, it was up to the other people in their political party to campaign on the candidate's behalf. But, oof, that was tough for James Garfield. His candidacy had proven that the New York political machine wasn't, in fact, all powerful. But that machine still had a lot of juice. So if James Garfield wanted even a shot at winning, he had to walk a political tightrope. Because, as you may recall, the Republican Party was at war with itself over the spoil system.

One group, led by Roscoe Conkling, believed in the spoil system. That system allowed the winning political party to fill every government position with their closest friends and donors. I believe in the system that benefits me the most. It made for a spicy, homegrown blend, a grass-fed corruption, horned, horned. hormone-free nepotism and an adorable mason jar of entitlement. But Norman, not everyone appreciates housemaid ketchup. And that other group had this insane notion that government positions should go to people who actually, you know, deserved him. Qualified?

Yeah. And James Garfield, I hate to tell you, he was one of those people. That son of a bitch. Thank you. He wanted civil service reform. In fact, he wanted a lot of things for the country. But in order to actually do those things, in order to really make an impact, he had to first win the presidential election. It wouldn't be easy.

He needed some of the spoil system boys to campaign on his behalf, but not so many of them that the civil service reform boys would think he was a great big phony. In short, James Garfield was like a young girl making her way through Adelaide. lessons, trying not to get labeled a stuck-up prude or a slutty slut, hoping to navigate it right down the middle, not knowing that even if he stuck the landing every single time, inevitably someone was going to call him a skanky bitch. Wow. I have a question. Yes.

Was James Garfield name recognition at this time? Was he well known to the public, or was he more of a... like inside inside baseball kind of name. Okay, so I'm going to say he was fairly well known, and we'll get to some of this stuff later. He kicked major Confederate booty hole in a battle in the Kentucky. In the Kentucky Derby. Some people just call it Kentucky. I call it the Kentucky in Kentucky.

So he really rose to fame through that. And then he'd spent 20 years in Congress where he, I mean, This dude gave speeches on everything. Yeah. So, and also he was kind of, you know. Sexy? You know, pretty, pretty, is robust the word I want to use? Robust.

Yeah, maybe that's the one I want to use. Okay. Now, I guess people were drooling over Roscoe Conklin. That's what they tell me, but I'm saying, have you seen James Garfield? Give me a break. Well, hey, let's see. I'm shirtless. I'd love to.

Wow. There was no doubt about it. James Garfield was in a real pickle, because even though the Republicans had held the presidency since the Civil War, they did not have this election in the bag. And that was thanks, in large part, to the fact that when Reconstruction ended, the federal troops who had once ensured that black men could vote in relative peace had been removed from the South. And now, black people in the South who were overwhelmingly in front. favor of electing James Garfield as president could not safely cast their vote. And even if they could, there was a decent chance that their vote might. Oh, my goodness, it was here a minute ago. What happened?

Oh, I guess it didn't happen. Yeah, or, you know, they were given tiny ballot boxes where... Yeah, you're Robert Small Series. If you want a good overview of like the bullshit that Southerners did to Black people during Reconstruction and after Reconstruction. Listen to that Robert Smalls series. Yeah. The teeny tiny ballot box, as far as voter suppression goes, is, gets my vote for funniest.

The funniest way to suppress votes. Funniest terrible thing to do. This polling place is closed because the ballot box is full because it's tiny. I'm sorry. I'm just picturing some really gross stuff. Yeah, stuff it in my ballot box. Okay, that's enough. fit.

Okay. Okay. Hang on. We have to save ourselves. This is really weird. There's no saving this episode. We've already messed it up. So it would be a close race.

The Republican Party was divided. The Democratic Party was united. And some weirdo third party candidate was talking about implementing an eight-hour workday. What a loser. I guess people don't want to work anymore. Wait, who is that? I didn't write down the guy's name You didn't write down a presidential candidate's name

He was a third party He got nothing clearly this was a good idea But he was ahead of his time No one voted for him Norm It's people like you That are the reason we will never Remember the name

Ralph Nader He'll be forgotten in time Because of people like you He did great things for seatbelts I remember Remember Gary Johnson ran in 2016 against Trump and Hillary. Are you talking about the guy who didn't know who Harriet Tubman was?

That's right. That's right. I think we can forget him, and I hope he remembers to go to a library. Anyhow. Or he can listen to an old-timey podcast because future topic, Harriet Tubman, for sure, right? That would be very cool. Yeah. Okay.

We, Norm, there's no time. There's no time. Okay. I've got to finish the Garfield series. I've got to, that would be great. I've also got to finish the cartoon Garfield series. It's a whole thing. Our nephew will be thrilled you're watching Garfield.

He's on a real Garfield kick right now. They just have to make sure he's listening to the right episodes. James Garfield needed people in his corner, and he did have support, but he needed a lot more. He needed dudes on his side who could give a speech. He needed dudes with name. recognition. He needed former president Ulysses S. Grant.

Ooh. That's a big ask. A big ask. Well, yeah. Grant's probably a little salty. He didn't get nominated. Are you kidding? He's getting older. We all are. Oh, wow.

Well, you know, when you get older, maybe you don't want to do as much stuff. But no, no, he is a party guy. He will support the nominee no matter what. So you're right. If he'll do it. too old to give a couple speeches for a guy, then he was way too old to even consider running for a third term. Hang on.

Hang on a second. Okay. I am mad at Ulysses S. Grant, and I know you have a boner for him, but, you know. Listen, if somebody's like, you have an opportunity to become the president, that's a big deal. Yes. And maybe you don't consider your age as much because you're like, that's a huge thing. Yeah, I'm going to go for president.

But if someone's like, hey, I'll give you $10,000 to give me this speech, maybe Grant's like, eh, is that worth my time? I think I'm going to chill at home. See what I'm saying? No, I do not. I don't. I think, hmm. Uh-oh.

There we go. Uh-oh. Hang on, let me get the soapbox. Yeah. Get a big one and then get another one and put it on top of it. what I want in a president and what I think is actually something that should be expected of that office is that the person who gets it is an adult and not just an adult but someone who behaves in a way that shows folks how to act someone who can be a role model. Yeah. And I'm sorry, this is just part of being high up in a political party.

If you truly believe that your political party is going to do the most good for this country that you say you care about a ton that you have dedicated your professional life to and in a way your personal life because, you know, when you get this high up, it probably all blends. then yeah, you congratulate the other winner. What if it was rigged? Well, that would really suck. Well, I'm saying a joke. Oh, okay. Okay. You congratulate the winner and you show your support.

And of course, you're sad you didn't win, but you still congratulate. If we can expect, oh, man, you weren't kidding about the soapbox. If we can expect children who play a soccer game to go shake hands at the end of the game with the people who defeated them, why can we not ask the leader of the fucking union? This man's dead. Why am I? Anyhow, I'm just saying this is something that I think should be expected. Well, and like it usually happens. I think it's embarrassing not to, really.

Yeah, I mean, whoever the nominee is, the party should rally around the nominee. That is usually how it works. And if you genuinely think my party messed up in picking this nominee, then, okay, go ahead and pull back. Sure. But he didn't really think that. He was just a poopy butt baby. So wait, did Grant say no? Hang on.

We don't know the answer yet. So, wait, Grant said no. No, hang on. You just encouraged me to get on a soapbox, and I really didn't want to, but I did it anyway. So he needed Ulysses S, Grant. Yeah. And he also, oh, Lord, there's no easy way to say this. He needed Roscoe Conkling.

Yes, because he was quite the cog in the machine. And he was really good at giving speeches. Yeah. He sucked on a damn lemon during the convention. Who could forget? it. Who knows what it means? We're still not sure, but we won't forget it. We've had a few people in the Discord give their theories as to what that meant. So we're, we've got our best people on it. Okay. That's all I'm saying. Okay.

We're still analyzing the results. Okay. People loved Roscoe's turkey gobbler strut and his very cool hairdo. He was funny in a kind of bitchy, sarcastic way, which I don't personally enjoy, but some people might support on Patreon. on. And you might think that it would be natural for the leadership. See, now I'm reading from my own soapbox. I hope you enjoyed that speech. So when Garfield's campaign got underway, Ulysses S. Grant felt so sorry for himself that he just fucked off to Arizona and like stared off into the sun and was sad for a while. He did the Michael Scott on the office after he got roasted. He fed the pigeons in the park. Yes.

Yeah. But in fairness, in fairness, it is not accurate of me to say that he just didn't lift a finger. Because the only thing that Ulysses S. Grant hated more than the fact that he wasn't the one running for president was the cocky little fence riding dipshit who the Democrats were running for president. That man's name? Do you know who it is? Oh, shit. You seem like you know Shit Oh you see

Oh it's a I'm having a A brain fart Uh oh I should know this I'm such a bad person Okay who is it Because I'm like

Winfield Scott Hancock Yes You know this man Yeah he was a Civil War general Well yeah I know it now I just I'm Norm I'm in front

So many of these names to me, brand new names, brand new fellows meeting them for the first time. Okay, Ulysses and Winfield had beef. Serious beef. Join me, won't you, for a treacherous trip down memory lane. They'd known each other since their days at West Point. They'd been such good friends once. Ulysses had been so proud of his little friend's leadership during the Civil War. But then, during Recon,

construction. Old Winfield got sent down to New Orleans where he proved himself to be quite the Confederate sympathizer when a mere two years after the Civil War ended, Winfield was like, wow, it's actually really great here. Black people are being kind of dramatic about needing federal protection. So how about we let all the folks who wanted to literally destroy the United States of America go back to running the city? I'm sure they'll do a great job. They've been super nice to me, a white guy. What he did in New Orleans was super controversial.

Controversial to everyone who loved the United States, but actually really heroic and cool to all the former Confederates. Ulysses S. Grant had been royally pissed off at his old friend Winfield. So he called him out. He was like, hey, Winfield, you're a general, dude, for the union. Why, years after the war, do you now have a bulge in your pants for the Confederacy? Winfield responded and brace yourself. This is ridiculous.

Direct quote? It's a direct quote, but I'm going to censor myself for obvious reasons. Oh, no. Is the N-word involved? You betcha. Oh, my God. All right. Winfield responded by saying that he was, quote, opposed to N-word domination.

Mm-hmm. You agree. No, but yeah, Andrew Johnson, who was the president during that time. Yeah, there's a reason Winfield Scott Hancock was sent down there. Yeah, so Ulysses, it's funny you mentioned that. This conversation happened when Ulysses was warning him about President Johnson and saying, hey, that dude is a Confederate sympathizer, and Winfield was like, let me take my mask off. I am too. Surprise.

So Winfield says that shit to Ulysses. And Ulysses responded, and I'm going to paraphrase here, N-word domination. You think that four million ex-slaves who have no access to education and no property are going to dominate 30 million white people who have all the access to education and own all the property to quote Angelina from Jersey Shore. Um, hello, are you fucking stupid? Yeah. Wow. Right?

Yep. So, yeah. Ulysses S. Grant couldn't quite bring himself to really, truly campaign for James Garfield. But he was more than willing to talk shit about that piece of poo Democratic candidate, Winfield Scott Hancock. He told the media exactly what he thought of that guy. He called Winfield, quote, ambitious, vain and weak. And if you're wondering, huh, what headline did the New York Times use when they published that story? I just said it.

Ambitious, vain and weak. Ouch. Yeah, he did not respond. You know, if that's what it takes for Grant to get involved, like just pure hatred for the opponent, then sure. Got to do what you got to do, right? If you know a guy that bad, is that close to the person. presidency, get out of Arizona, where you're, you know, I don't know what you're doing. He's feeding the pigeons.

And get on the campaign trail for Garfield. He has plenty of lasagna, hates Mondays, what's not to love? Oh, poor James Garfield. He really needed more support. But even his own vice president, Chester A. Arthur kind of couldn't be bothered. It was kind of a funny thing. Chester Arthur hadn't been James Garfield's choice for vice president. In fact, he'd wanted someone else,

but that dude had been so scared of pissing off Roscoe Conkling that he'd said no. In fact, a lot of guys who would have probably done a fine job as vice president, were scared to join the ticket because they didn't want to make daddy mad. Well, wasn't Chester Arthur kind of a compromise for the spoil system guys? because they're basically like, well, we'll just make him do whatever we want. Absolutely. Yeah. That's the only, why else would you put Chester on this?

We're going to learn more about him, and you're going to ask even harder and louder. Why else would we put him in charge of anything? Yeah, he's a useful idiot. Although Chester Arthur is, I've got a little soft spot for him. He's underappreciated. He actually, like, for someone who never held public office. Yeah. Honestly, didn't do that bad of a job.

On this podcast, I pledge to over-appreciate him. I've got a soft spot for the fella. We're going to learn more. Stay tuned. So it was kind of funny that Chester Arthur, of all people, had taken the job. By all accounts, he should have been the most terrified of Roscoe's wrath. A few years earlier, he'd risen to prominence when Roscoe installed him as the collector for the New York Customs House. That had been a very lucrative position. Oh, yeah. But Chester had been very publicly removed from that lucrative position when Rutherford B. Hayes tried to do some civil service reform. Kind of like what happened to Robert Smalls.

Yeah. In other words, Chester Arthur was just a guy who had no experience in elected office and who had risen to mild infamy by being spoiled rotten by the spoilt. spoil system. It was like grandma's in town every day. He had no business being on this ticket. But at the Republican National Convention, when Roscoe Conkling had been sulking in a corner, licking his wounds, the leadership of the Republican Party had asked Chester Arthur if he'd run as Garfield's vice president. As Norm just predicted, they knew that Garfield needed the involvement of the spoil system boys if he had any hope of actually winning the election. And so Chester had gone to Roscoe.

He'd given him the news. I've been offered the vice presidency. And Roscoe had gotten mad. He'd told him not to accept. He referred to James Garfield as a trickster. He predicted that his presidential campaign would end in failure. But he's the nominee. How is he going to do?

What do you mean? I mean, we were talking about throwing your support behind the candidate. like what's Conkling's alternative here? Well, here's the thing. And here's why I'm not mad at Roscoe Conkling. He is who he is. He is who he says he is. He's a piece of shit.

I don't respect a piece of shit to be a piece of gold. Well, and I guess like he's probably like, you know, I'm secure in my senatorial position. Yeah, if this sucks, you know, I'm still senator. I'm still pulling the strings with the party. And people are going to be like, Conkling was right, you know, if it all fudges up. I actually think you're giving him a little too much credit.

Really? I don't think you're totally wrong. But in this instance, I think he's just throwing a temper tantrum. Truly. Because there's no way that it would be better for him for a Democrat to be in office. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

So even though it's funny, I mean, when someone's immature, sure enough, they will act against their own best interest if it means getting like, I don't know, a little revenge against somebody, you know, he just can't be the bigger person here. Yeah, it does kind of feel like a, kind of like a high school. Musical, where they're just about to sing. No, it's like Chester A. Arthur runs up to Conkling and it's like, oh my God, Cody asked me to the dance. Uh-huh.

But Conkling, you know, doesn't want Cody and Chester A. Arthur to be together. So he's like, hmm, I don't think that's a good idea. I heard Cody's kind of a slut. Why do you keep bringing your fanfic into this series? You did it last week? Oh, yeah. When James A. Garfield was pressed up against the wall. How two men could sleep in a bed.

Head to toe. We don't understand what you meant. Head to feet. I had defeat. I couldn't remember the word headboard or footboard. It was a real mess. Chester Arthur owed a lot to Roscoe Conkling, and it's reasonable to say that he liked the guy.

Chester liked a lot of folks, and a lot of folks liked him. He told jokes. He drank dark liquors. He was a good time. But that day, Chester Arthur got serious. He told Roscoe Conkling, I didn't come here to consult you on this. Oh, holy, I just came to tell you.

It was unreal that Chester Arthur was willing to go against Roscoe. Who knows why? Maybe it was his ego. Maybe it was the fact that as fun and gregarious as he could be, Chester was still reeling from his wife Ellen's sudden death. She'd passed away earlier that year while he was away on business. Political business, oddly enough. He put fresh flowers by her picture every day.

They'd been married for 20 years. And he struggled in the wake of her death to find any reason to go on. But maybe this, this thing, this thing that was so much bigger than himself, or his party, or his allegiance to Roscoe Conkling. maybe this was why he was still here. Maybe this gave him meaning. That day, talking to Roscoe, Chester Arthur got quiet.

And then he said, The office of the vice president is a greater honor than I ever dreamed of attaining. A barren nomination would be a great honor. In a calmer moment, you will look at this differently. Hmm. And Roscoe said, If you wish for my favor and my respect, you will contemptuously decline it.

What a little baby-back bitch. Chester wasn't having it. He said, Senator Conkling, I shall accept the nomination, and I shall carry with me the majority of the delegates. Roscoe stomped out of the room. And Chester did exactly as he said he would. And now, with Garfield's presidential campaign underway, Chester Arthur did some stuff to help the campaign, but not too much stuff. You don't want to overdo it. Instead, he bought a lot of clothes.

You know, that's kind of a key part to this, just buying clothing, okay? Got it look good. Absolutely. Chester was loving his new position in life. Now, he was famous now. And not for that other thing about getting a position that he hadn't earned and then getting thrown out of it. it now, now he was famous because he was running for vice president. Yeah. Neat. And like, I feel like Garfield and Arthur weren't too familiar with each other. Right. When this whole thing

while. And this is during old time of times when like the nominee didn't choose their vice president. Right. Yeah. So awkward. It is. It is. It's my understanding that James Garfield wasn't even really consulted on who his vice president would be. Yeah. It's interesting in those days, they had three hours between nominating the president and picking the vice president. Yeah. Okay. And if you'll recall from last week's episode, James Garfield spent a lot of time sitting in a chair, staring into space, and wanting to leave. So I don't know that he was really in the mind, in the headspace to pick a guy for VP. Oh, I mean, he was shocked. He was made.

the nominee for president three hours later like by the way Chester A. Arthur is going to be your vice president he's probably just like all right yeah in the meantime Roscoe Conkling gave some speeches and they were really good absolute bangers

but it was almost as if he thought he'd be struck by lightning if he mentioned James Garfield's name too often so he steered clear that you know just only mentioned it a few times this was all pretty frustrating for James Garfield. He felt kind of ignored not just by

key members of his political party, but by me for writing a script about his presidential campaign and only just now starting to talk about him. Norm, what minute are we on? 51. Good grief. How rude. Yeah, the disrespect is unbelievable.

Now, he did some campaigning, though, on his porch, right? He's a big porch guy. Okay, spoilers. All right, just hang tight, sir, sit in that rocking chair and I'll tell you all about it. The fact that James Garfield had to rely on other people to campaign for him was kind of hard on him. Even though the good lard above hadn't yet invented microphones, James Garfield loved making speeches. He loved getting out and talking to people. And he really felt like if people wanted to know how he felt on an issue, he'd rather tell them directly. Yeah, absolutely.

But as I've said, that sort of thing simply wasn't done. But you know what was done? Showing up at a presidential candidate's actual home and expecting to talk to him and his whole family. Hey, when Lincoln was president. This is nuts. This is nuts. Yeah, the lack of privacy. Zero privacy.

boundaries. No boundaries. No boundaries. Security, no. Don't need them. Why would we need them? President Lincoln's assassination was more of a war thing, so it's not really a president thing, so we don't need to do anything.

Yeah, well, they're like, oh, that was, that was like an anomaly. That was like. Right. Yeah. And I agree, because I haven't read too far in these books. Well, and even Lincoln had security and guards just like. not like today. No.

James Garfield and his family had a place in Washington, D.C. from all his years in Congress, but they also had a farm back in Mentor, Ohio. And so, with the presidential campaign underway, the Garfields did what they always did in the summer. They went back home to their farm. In Mentor? Did I say it wrong?

I'm just curious. Oh, no. You know, these small towns across America, they are spelled one way, but maybe not pronounced that way. You know, I always feel secure, though, when I'm not talking about some weird city in Massachusetts. Looking at you, Worcester. Menor. What?

You are kidding me. Mentor spelled any. It's pronounced Menor. I knew it. People, I'm going to spell this for you. Please be on my side. M-E-N-T-O-R. That's literally how you spell the word mentor.

And according to the internet, these folks in Ohio, they drop the tea. Okay, well, Norm. I told you. I'm glad your spidey senses said, this wife of mine did not Google this word. She's too confident and she said it and it sounds weird. Okay. This little wife of mine, I'm not going to let her shine because I'll call out her bullshit every time. All right.

Men are Ohio. I'm sorry. I don't have beef with the place. although maybe I do. So they're back at the farm. And that is how the American people learned who James Garfield really was. A fat orange tabby cat. I'm not voting for this.

Ain't no rules say the cat can't be president. I like the dog better. This is so stupid. Odie? I want Odie to be president. That was Winfield Scott Hancock's nickname. Shut up. Odie.

Winfield Scott Odie Hancock. It was kind of astounding. The Garfields had a very modest farmhouse, not far from where James Garfield had grown up. So as he was running for president, he and his family spent that summer, working the fields, tending to their crops, managing field hands,

and when members of the public just showed up to see him, and they often did, James Garfield went out on. his front porch and talked to them. What took place that summer and fall was essentially a front porch campaign for the presidency. Hell yeah. Reporters later nicknamed the Garfield property, Lawnfield, and the name stuck. People came to Lawnfield in droves.

They talked, they gawked, they listened. They took literal ears of corn from the Garfield family field as souvenirs. Hey, whoa. That was our lunch. Yeah. Well, and like people were there also to ask for appointments too, right? They're like, hey, you want to make me the ambassador to, you know, Canada or something? To mentor Ohio, which they keep the tea.

It's a different town where things are done right. God, that would be so annoying people coming up asking for all these. Well, early in the campaign, that didn't really happen. It was mostly congratulations, want to get to know you nicey, nice. Yeah, but as like the campaign heats up, it's coming. I'm telling the story, okay, buddy. Oh, oh, I'm sorry for having an interest in this story. I, you know, just from the story you told at the top of the show.

What story? The belch one? No, we don't remember that because it's being cut. This one? There's no time for that story. I know about being like, I'm actually a teacher and, you know, you were right. Okay, hats off to you. But Norm, I'm in.

charge right now. Hang on. I'm going to defend younger norm here. Okay. No, you were totally right. Well, the teacher tried to um, actually me. Yes. So let's get one thing right here.

Okay. Let's do it. Let's... Benjamin Franklin was a fine president. Well, okay, I'll let you say that because it only makes you look. I disagree. He was not president. But go on, Kristen.

It was fun. Fun for everyone, kind of. There was just something about James Garfield. He seemed so real. Reporters were allowed into the house, and they were amazed at all the books he had, books in every room, including the bathroom. This guy's got a lot of books. They saw him interact with his children. One time, one of his youngest boys shouted, go Hancock during one of his speeches.

And everyone was like, oh! And James Garfield saw it was his kid and just laughed. He and his wife, Lucretia, it just seemed obvious. They really loved each other, like really loved each other, not just for show, not just for some weird campaign thing. They had a love that they'd fought for and earned and now enjoyed. There was something maybe if people weren't lucky enough to relate to, maybe something they found aspirational and comforting about a presidential candidate who was capable of creating and maintaining that kind of love.

What would that mean for the nation? What would that mean for the future? If this man, this smart, capable man, who forgave and sought forgiveness and loved and was so dearly loved in return, actually led the country. Yeah. Americans in 1880 had been through a lot. They'd weathered massive changes.

Railroads, iron, coal, technology was evolved. medicine was evolving. Everything was moving so fast. There was fear, but there was also hope. There was hope in James Garfield's own life story. People couldn't help themselves. They gobbled it up. The man who was now running for the highest office in the nation hadn't always been so powerful. He'd risen from nothing. He was proof that the American dream was real. Yeah. Possibly. I mean, it was very, like, it was a reason why Lincoln was so respected. Kind of the same deal. Very early in his presidential campaign, biographies popped up about James Garfield. They told the story of his father, Abram. Abram had moved out to Ohio from New York in the early 1800s.

Not too terribly long after it joined the union. He'd struggled. He'd helped build the Erie Canal. He married a smart, educated, and as would soon become evident, remarkably strong woman named Eliza. They had five children, four survived infancy. James was their youngest. And Eliza gave birth to him, the future president, in the one-room log cabin that Abram had built himself. Spoils. You said future president, but we're not sure if he wins. So thanks for that, I guess.

James Garfield wasn't even two years old on the day that the woods that surrounded the family home caught fire. By that point, his father was 33 years old. He was strong. He was capable. He'd worked so hard for the land he called his own for the cabin that sheltered his family. He knew what would happen if he didn't stop that wildfire. He would lose everything.

So Abram worked. He worked like a madman, cutting down brush, clearing the area, working strategically, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, there was no time to rest. Everything was on the line. And then, finally, by the grace of God, he did it. He was exhausted, but he did it. He'd saved his farm. He'd saved his home. He'd saved his family. But it had been too much. The fight had depleted him. Abraham Garfield got sick. He'd been a young, healthy man when that fire started. And now, days later, Too far from a decent doctor.

Abram Garfield died. Eliza became a widow, a widow with four children to care for. It was too much. She fell into debt. Faced with no other choice, she sold off some of the farm. And she worked and worked and worked. The oldest child, Thomas, was 11 years old. He had to work too, nonstop.

Eliza knew that if she couldn't find a way, if she couldn't eke out a way to survive, she'd lose what little she had left, her children. This was an era before social safety nets, where parents unable to afford to care for their kids sometimes had to make the heartbreaking decision to give them away. Oof. Somehow she managed to keep her little family together,

but they had a really hard life. Later, during the presidential campaign, the people who wrote about James Garfield's childhood sometimes tried to romanticize it. This idea of coming from nothing, of constant struggle and hunger, of not having shoes in the Ohio winter until he was four years old,

of being fatherless and penniless and mocked for his old threadbare clothing. Other people romanticized the poverty that he'd grown up in. But James Garfield never did. Not once. He saw nothing idyllic about a child struggling to survive.

Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I really respect that. I think when you're running for office or really just being a human, I'm sure there are parts of your life story that people might cling to and say, oh, look at this. This was good. This is what made you who you are today. And aren't you kind of blessed by it? And I imagine in that setting where you're wanting people's votes, it might be a little tempting to be like, sure, whatever it is you like, you know, yeah. But that really, I think that would do a lot of harm. It would also erase the fact that in many ways he was fortunate to ascend the way he did.

And he knew most people didn't. And there was no glamour in that. Right. I think there are two types of people. you know, if they grew up in poor conditions, there are people that get out of that and they say, oh, man, that was really tough, but I got out of it and you can too. And then there are other people who get out of it and say, ooh, that was hard and no one should have to live like that. And I want better for people. And James Garfield was that type of person.

Definitely. Yeah. His background did strike a chord with the American public. How many people could relate to to that, to that struggle. And how many people could admire what happened next? At 16, James Garfield had left home to become a canal man. Oh, yeah. What an old-timey tradition. A young man sets off to work on the canal.

Our last series on John Colt. He did some canal work. It sounds terrible. I mean, it's tough work, it's dangerous. And the work nearly killed James Garfield. Yeah, I mean, it almost killed John Colt. cool too. But like canals were going up everywhere. It was like good money, but yeah, it was hard work. It was really the canal era of the U.S., you know, Taylor Swift has her little eras.

Oh, okay. The U.S. had their canals. I'm sorry. It took me a second to understand why Taylor Swift was factory into this store. It's a really stupid reference. No, no, keep your confidence, norm. The Taylor Swift Canal's era. Yeah, she said, I'm done singing. I'm going to work on the canal for Wouldn't that be a change? He nearly drowned when late one night he fell overboard. That experience scared him. He went home and he nearly died again this time from malaria. But when he regained his strength, his mother gave him $17. That $17 had been nearly impossible to save up, but she'd done it. And she wanted James to use it to go to school. She believed in him. She believed. She believed. believed in his intellectual capacity.

Wow. And that money changed his life. He enrolled at the Western Reserve Eclectic Institute, now called Hiram College, which I think is a bad change because Western Reserve Eclectic Institute is cool. Ecclectic Institute is a terrific name. I feel like I'd get into an eclectic institute. Absolutely. Take one look at you.

James couldn't. That was rude. Ruder that it took me a second. But I'm here, baby, and I'm offended. James couldn't afford tuition, so he worked out a deal with them. He would work as the school's janitor, and they'd waive his fees. Man, I love that, and I wish that was available to more students like today for, like, higher education. It's just, it's just...

I don't know. It's just... College has become so expensive. See, I think it should just be way less expensive. I think that this just seems very uncomfortable. potentially. Like you're, you're trying to be a student and you're also the janitor there. It made him feel uncomfortable. Really?

Well, yeah. Put yourself in his shoes. Everyone else can afford to go there and just be students. Yeah, yeah, I guess that would be uncomfortable. And he literally, like, he'd go to class and then, like, it was his job to go ring the bell. So he'd have to leave class and go ring the bell. Yeah. There's some like Goodwill hunting stuff, right? I mean, I just, I was about to, I was about to romanticize it. God, it's tempting. I was like, maybe it builds character, but I, I just think that, that be, that be a really

tough thing to do. And why put somebody through that when all they're trying to do is learn? God, this is becoming a socialist podcast, just by the minute. Yep. Mm-hmm. And you know what that means? What? Communism.

Uh-oh. Here we come. Because we all know communism and socialism are the same. You heard it here first on an ultimately podcast. That's right. A funny thing happened after a while. He put in all this work into his studies. He loved learning.

He was so curious and interested in everything. He discovered that he was kind of competitive, actually. He loved mastering a subject. And maybe there was some satisfaction in that. So he could get satisfaction. Unlike Mick Jagger. He couldn't get no satisfaction. Taylor Swift, McJagher.

Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm just throwing shit at the wall right now. We can all know. No, maybe there was some satisfaction in being underestimated, not having the advantages that the other students enjoyed, but still beating everybody in every subject. Oh, yeah, I'd have a sense of pride with that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because his mom had always instilled in him this idea that, hey, no, we don't have

what we'd like to have in life. But what we do have, we've earned, and we've earned it honestly. And that means that you can look anyone in the eye, anyone in the eye. I think that's obviously a good lesson. I think it's one thing to be told that it's another to believe it. And it feels like it was at this part of his life when he really believed it about himself. The following year, the school promoted him. He became an assistant professor.

Jesus, like that quick? Yeah. Later, he attended Williams College in Williamston, Massachusetts, which I assume I'm pronouncing correctly. I hope they keep the T's in there. It's actually William Stan. You fucking fine. And again, he found a challenge. Everyone was so smart.

He had so much to learn. Oh my gosh, he was so behind the curve. But he did it again. Oops. Shut up. Oh, my God. Walked right into that one. This is what we in the podcasting world called Flooding the Zone.

You just put a ton of stuff in that episode. Something for everyone. Something for everybody. It discombobulates you. He gained more confidence. After he graduated, he went back to the Western Reserve Eclectic Institute, where at just 26 years old, he became the president of the institution

where he'd worked just a few years earlier as the janitor. Man, I'm inspired right now. I know. And from there, holy hell, someone must have attached a rocket to his ass because when an Ohio state senator died, someone asked James Garfield to take the man's place in the upcoming election.

And he did. And he won. But then, like 12 seconds later, the Civil War broke out. And oh my God, that was pretty exciting because James Garfield wanted to fight. And this was how James Garfield really made a name for himself. He was named Colonel. He recruited a bunch of young men, many of them his students, to join his regiment.

Truth be told, James Garfield was just a young guy who'd never seen war. But like any dude who watched saving Private Ryan a few too many times, He was ready to go to war. Hey, uh, Hibhawler. Uh, but anyway. That was a mean joke aimed to harm my husband and it hit. I will also say, though, during this time, to serve and fight and possibly die was like a big honor for a lot of young men at that time.

Yeah. Well, it was like an adventure. A lot of these people, they'll never leave their hometown. Sure. They'll live there their whole lives. And yeah, you have this war where it's like, oh my God, we have to save the union and I could rise to like be a hero in this battle to save the country. Yeah, it's a huge honor. Yeah.

And a big part of that was that saving private Ryan was screened nationwide. And it's about the civil wars. What that movie was about. I'm not talking about saving private Ryan, which came out in 1998. Tom Hates was born in 1860. I'm sorry, what? His first assignment was to take his regiment to Kentucky to kick some Confederate ass.

Ooh, I wonder if he fought against William Quantrell. That was a guy that Jesse James rode with. Oh, yeah? Yeah, they did some stuff in Kentucky. I wonder if Garfield encountered him. Good stuff, bad stuff. You know, I'm going to have to look into that, but I think they did bad stuff.

I just spat on my own chin. That's a talent. Unfortunately, James and his boys didn't stand a chance. The group of Confederates waiting for them in Kentucky were no joke. There were 2,000 of them. They had four cannons, tons of ammo, and no offense. But their leader had this thing called experience. He'd graduated from West Point, okay?

Not some eclectic reserve or, whatever. Who is the Confederate in charge of Kentucky? Norm, I'm going to be totally freaking honest with you. What? Okay. Total freaking honesty. I told you last night, I was worried that my section here about James Garfield's

earlier life was too long. So what did I do today? I went in and I really looked for things that I thought we could lose. And the thing I definitely thought we could lose was some freaking Confederate dude's name who's never going to come up again and this is the one question you have asked. I was just curious. No, fun fact about me. I delete stuff from the main page, but I am so attached to stuff that I keep another

document called Scrap. So let me see if I've got it in my Scrap. Let's check Kristen's scraps for some juicy nuggets. Okay, here it is. Brigadier General Humphrey Marshall. Never heard of him. See, yeah, yeah. I knew I could cut him out of here.

Fair enough. Fair enough. Humphrey Marshall, whose name, we shall now say five more times to summon him from the depths of hell. Sorry, I'm just assuming. Do a humph for Humphrey. Come on, come on, do to Humphre Marshall. Do the hump. So he had some experience, went to West Point.

So he was ready for James Garfield and the boys. That's right. And he was about 20 years older than James Garfield. So he was more experienced in every way imaginable. Probably served in the Mexican-American War. He didn't have to watch Band of Brothers. He'd lived it. Oh, okay.

There's a lot of things wrong with that joke, but continue. It was annoying the shit out of me that you kept saying other stuff because I was like, I have another insult to throw at Norman. And he's just delaying. What? You big fan of Bander Brothers? You watch it ever like 12 million times? Yeah, Band of Brothers is great.

Everyone, if you're wondering what Norm is doing right now, as you listen to this episode, he's probably watching Band of Brothers or Colombo. It's one of those two. I'm on a Colombo kick right now. Thank you very much. So the Confederacy had all the stuff. Meanwhile, James Garfield's little group had 1,500 people, no artillery. They should have been demolished.

But what James Garfield managed to do at the Battle of Middle Creek made him a legend. Though he was outgunned and outmanned, he outwitted the enemy with a balzy plan. And I'm calling it balzy. It's one of these things where if it hadn't worked, it would have just been called stupid. But, you know, here we go. Sure. He stayed up all night studying maps, and he came up with this plan, a three-pronged, staggered attack designed to confuse the Confederates.

He knew he couldn't just beat them. He had to confuse them. Absolutely. So he was outnumbered? That's what I just said. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you got to throw some chaos in here to win. I feel like that's what you've done for this episode.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You got to flood the zone. You got to go balls out, right, Kristen? Garfield was balls out during this battle. That's what I once said on a podcast episode, and it's a totally normal thing to say. Yeah, but that was for running a yellow light. Yeah. You got to speed up and go balls out. That's what

you have to do. Everyone knows it. Right. The strategy worked. The more experienced leader of the Confederacy who's, what was his name we don't even remember now? He panicked. Humphrey Marshall. Oh my God. He figured

based on the fact that Union soldiers seemed to be coming at them from all sides, there must be tons of them. So he retreated. It was a major victory for the union. The union held Kentucky. And that mattered a whole hell of a lot. Yeah, it was a border state.

Yeah, it was a border state. Big, big deal. That was like one of his number one priorities. Like, I got to keep the border states. Yes. That's why Missouri was a union state. Technically. On paper, yeah.

Technically, it was a union state. But when Marshall surrendered, was he like, I say, I'll say, there are so many union soldiers. We unfortunately don't have the audio. We only have a photo of him running with a stain on his britches. And, you know, they were the gray ones. Yeah, they were the gray ones, right? So it was easy to see.

And there was James Garfield on his horse with his balls resting on the saddle of the horse. Well, that's just the way a fellow will sit. Okay, oh yeah, balls out. Balls out. I'm sorry, I assume trousers on, but yeah, very good. And that also confused the enemy. That would be very confusing. What are they going to do to us?

They are charging with the testicles out. Ew, life's gay. Get out of here. Homophobia is what helped keep the union together. If there's one thing we hate more than black people. It's gay people in the Confederacy. James Garfield, this is not funny. James Garfield knew immediately the power of what he'd done.

But when that battle was over and when it was clear that his risky but brilliant strategy had paid off, he stared out at the land in front of him. It was littered with bodies, dead bodies. the bodies of young men he'd led into battle, dead bodies of young men who'd been his students, and the dead bodies of young men who'd fought for the opposition, enemies a moment ago, and now just dead men. That scene never left him. That feeling of victory and tragedy, good and bad, so close together, close enough that they almost blended, like you almost couldn't have one, without the other.

I think it shaped him. As a result of the Battle of Middle Creek, James Carfield became kind of famous. He was named Brigadier General. And within a year of that battle, he got elected to Congress. Often they didn't refer to men as Brigadier Generals because it was like,

it felt it was kind of awkward to say in too long of a title. So they kind of just said Briggy Gee. Oh my God. I was like, where's he going with this? Is he really taking this long to just say General? It said, Briggy G. Garfield. And that's where he stayed for the next 20 years in Congress. But, oh boy. Now, as a presidential candidate,

he found that his long track record was a blessing and a curse. He'd spoken out on all the issues. He'd voted on all the issues. And good Lord, he'd given so many speeches. By contrast, his Democratic opponent had never held a political office. He'd been a military guy for his entire career, which meant that technically he'd never taken a public stand on too much of anything, which meant that maybe he could appeal to anyone? Blank slate, baby. I'll write your name.

Oh, Taylor Swift. Yeah, she's still here. She's been here this whole time. That's the magic of Taylor Swift. It's at this point, though, that we must all tip our top hats to the Republicans who did something very sassy to make fun of the Democratic. candidate's lack of experience. Picture it. They created a pamphlet, a beautiful pamphlet, and they titled it Hancock's political achievements. And inside, when you open it up, blank? Completely blank. People had no trouble figuring out who James Garfield was or what he stood for. His record

proved again and again that he wasn't just anti-slavery. He was adamantly in favor of black people having rights, protection, liberty. That did not go unnoticed. Frederick Douglass, a man born into slavery, who emerged as a powerhouse in the abolitionist movement, campaigned hard for James Garfield. This election mattered. It mattered a lot. If the people wanted the country to move forward, they needed to vote for James Garfield. Well, and Douglas witnessed what happened. Yeah. when Hayes was president and reconstruction ended. He also witnessed it through his real life of growing up in slavery.

So, you know, he saw the whole thing. Right, but I'm saying like he was seen progress. Yeah. Oh, that would be so painful. And then, yeah, it's, you know, Paula Abdul, two steps forward, two steps back. Will someone, some good history, oh, please keep a tally of the people who Norm has brought up in this show that absolutely should be. not be here. Paula Abdul. Who's next?

Two steps back. I mean, that's true, though. In fairness, James Garfield was also outspoken about very boring issues. He's a big fan of the gold standard. I mean, who could forget, okay? We're all going to remember his two-hour-long

speech in 1868 about currency. It was a fucking banger. I'm sure none of us have forgotten a word of it, which is why I won't even get into the details. Everyone's got the audiobook version. Okay?

As election day neared, James Garfield's campaign picked up steam. So many people pitched in to give speeches, to lend their support. That was great. It was very badly needed. It would be a close race. But as the campaign came to a close,

James Garfield's wife, Lucretia, got concerned. She was no dummy. In fact, she had a good head for politics. And unlike her husband, who kind of had the personality of a golden retriever, Lucretia was more of a black cat. Good boy, James Garfield. She sat back. She studied.

And what she noticed was a disturbing trend. People who had been so sweet and supportive throughout the campaign were now, as election day neared, getting entitled. Mm-hmm. To the victor go the spoils. people hinted and some outright demanded specific positions that James Garfield should give them if he won the election. By the way, you know, you mentioned to the victory go the spoils and how it came from. You were right. It came from the spoil system. Excuse me, sir. You seem a little too surprised that I was correct about something.

So let's take that again. And this time seemed like you're defending me against my haters. For all of you assholes out there who were questioning. defending Kristen about where the origin of the phrase to the victor go the spoils came from. I've got a limit. I'm sucking on it right now. A lot of these, you know, haters online were saying, oh, that's an ancient Roman phrase. Yeah, some people were saying that, very rude ones. But now you are here to defend me. And so I said, well, I'm here to stick up for my wife. And Kristen is correct. It did come from the spoils system. Wow. Early 1800s. Very good. falls out defending his wife from himself last week. Okay. I mean, I was just asking questions. I was just curious.

I wasn't hating or anything. Norm, thank you for being so heroic. Back to Lucretia. Lucretia was noticing these changes. And I want to read to you now a letter that she received in the mail. Bear in mind, this is a letter from some random woman she has never met, never heard, of no clue who she is, lady from Wisconsin. This is a portion of the letter that this woman wrote to a potential first lady. Okay, let's hear it. Quote, thinking your husband will be elected

president this fall, I take liberty to advise you and ask you to intercede with him on behalf of my husband in obtaining the position of postmaster. P.S., please do not make this affair public as he has had enough to contend with now in being a Garfield man and it might interfere with his business. That's all the letter said? Well, I didn't read the whole dang thing. But to me, this speaks volumes, because we're going to get to Charles Guto in a minute. And I think when we look back on him with modern eyes, everything about him seems ridiculous. And of course, yes. But it was a common thing for people to be ridiculous about this stuff. Yeah, to me, that letter seems totally normal for the time.

This woman is clearly saying, my husband's not actually a Garfield man. I've also sent it to that Hancock fella with the same message of, don't tell anybody. Why would we tell anybody, you random lady? Anyhow, I... The letter gave Lucretia a creepy feeling,

this grabbiness. It was happening all around her, from friends, from acquaintances, from total strangers, from people who had genuinely helped with the campaign, sure, and many who hadn't. She didn't even know that a strange little man named Charles Guteau had spent the last few months worming his way into the upper echelons of the Republican Party, or trying to, at least.

Charles had a way of unnerving people. Something about him wasn't quite right, but he was so sure of himself, so sure of his own power, so high on grandiosity that he knew all of his efforts to secure James Garfield's presidency would pay off. He was sure of it. Mm, yeah. Soon enough, it was time to vote. James Garfield went to sleep, and when he woke up, he got the news. He'd won.

He'd won the presidency by a thin margin. Millions of people all over America rejoiced. This was huge. James Garfield, the man who'd come from nothing, raised by a widowed mother, was about to become the 20th president of the United States. It was incredible. It had all led up to this. So many people were so, so happy. But James Garfield, the man who'd won, was sad, sad in a way that he found hard to explain. It was an honor to win the presidency, but it was also a loss. He was losing.

the life he'd known, the life he'd loved. James Garfield loved working on his farm. He loved playing with his kids. He loved being with his wife. He loved reading. My God, did he love reading? And there wouldn't be time for all of that, at least not as much of it. As the election results sank in, he struggled with the knowledge that this new chapter of his life was going to be so different. It would take him away from home, away from what comforted him. He was happy, but he was also mournful in a way that he struggled to explain to even those closest to him. Because being named president, it felt in a way like a death. On next week's episode, beep, beep, beep, breaking news, Charles Guteau has just requested full credit for what happened in this week's episode.

But who the hell was he and what exactly did he do? on the campaign trail. Find out next time on a brand new episode of an old-timey podcast. Ah, beep, beep, beep. Oh, we're also going to find, this is going to sound boring. I promise it's not. We're going to find out all the shenanigans that went down when Garfield tried to assemble his cabinet.

And I know that sounds like a snoozer, but someone gets kidnapped. So you'll want to listen. Oh, man, a kidnapping? Yeah, except I feel like I've always felt like kidnapped is a weird word for adults. So it's a man-napped. A man-napped? That just sounds like an afternoon. You're going to have to listen.

I was man-napping earlier today. It was appalling. My husband's been man-napped. Yeah, taking a little snooze on the couch. Excellent job, Kristen. Thank you. Covering Garfield's rise to the presidency. I wouldn't have been able to sleep on election night.

I'd be wired. Yeah, you do want to. I mean, on the one hand, it's like, okay, I've done all I can do. Yeah. But did they have melatonin back then? I don't know. I bet you get a big old plate of nachos and zonked out. That would knock me out.

Kristen, I do have one thing I'd like to talk about before we end this episode. I actually have a mistake to shame. Mine or yours? Mine. I'm only interested in yours. I made a mistake. I read it in the Spotify comments. And I was like, oh, shit.

How could I make this grave error? Okay. Mistakes of shame. So last week I said, Kristen, the only difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little bit of extra? Yes, and I was very inspired. And I said I stole that from the movie Office Space. Right. It's actually not from Office Space.

It's from the movie Waiting. So you stole it and didn't even give credit. No, I did not cite my source correctly. So I apologize. On behalf of all the history hoes, we are appalled. Extra appalled. Yeah. So this has been another exciting, shameful segment of mistakes of shame.

Well done, Norm. That's all I got. This was a fun one. You got a little goofy, yeah. That's okay, because you know what? I don't know if you know what's ahead of us, but it's going to be some not-so-goofy stuff. So we should have fun where we can.

not so goofy movie. Very sad. Uh. I wouldn't mind another goofy movie. Why? What do you need another goofy movie? What does the world need another goofy movie for? Listen, the goofy movie is like a donut.

Get one? I'm like, ooh, that was really good. And then they have the sequel, an extremely goofy movie. Someone handed me another donut. I said, oh, well, that was good. So keep handing me donuts. I'm going to eat them. enjoy them.

Okay. All right. All right. Who can argue with that? Are you ready to wrap up? Let's wrap it up. Kristen, you know what they say about history hoes? We always cite our sources.

We sometimes do it correctly. Like office space or waiting or what was it? Banda Brothers. Did you say Panda Brothers? No, I said Panda Brothers. They said Panda Brothers. Panda Brothers is also a war film. and we think it's disrespectful because it's cartoon bears.

Anyway, that's right for this episode. I got my information from The Book, The Destiny of the Republic, a Tale of Madness, Medicine, and the Murder of a President by Candace Millard, The Book, Dark Horse, the surprise election, and political murder of President James A. Garfield by Kenneth D. Ackerman, plus reporting from PBS and The New York Times. Plus more, check the show notes for a full list of our sources. That's all for this episode.

Thank you. for listening to an old-timey podcast. Please give us a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts. And while you're at it, subscribe. Support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash old-timey podcast. Join the Reddit community,

our slash old-timey podcast. Follow us on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram at Old Timey Podcast. You can also follow us individually on Instagram. I'm at Kristen Pitts-Carruso and he's at Gaming Historian. And until next time, Tudaloo, Tata, and Cheerio!

bring Judge Judy back. Bye! Yeah, bye! See ya. See ya.