Analytic Dreamz: Notorious Mass Effect - "EPIC VS. APPLE: THE 5-YEAR BATTLE THAT SHOOK THE APP STORE!"

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Linktree: ⁠https://linktr.ee/Analytic⁠Become A Patron Of The Notorious Mass Effect Podcast For Additional Bonus Audio And Visual Content For All Things Nme! Join Our Patreon Here: ⁠https://ow.ly/oPsc50VBOuH⁠ Join Analytic Dreamz on Notorious Mass Effect for a detailed breakdown of the Apple vs. Epic Games legal battle (2020–2025). From Epic’s Fortnite ban to the EU’s DMA forcing Apple’s policy changes, Analytic Dreamz explores key rulings, like the 2021 anti-steering injunction and 2025 contempt finding. With Fortnite’s U.S. App Store return and global implications for developers and consumers, this segment unpacks stats, fees, and the ongoing fight over platform control.Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Now, when it comes to Big Bank, Take Little Bank, this specific scenario, that was not the case. Shepard, just look at the state of gaming. Like, what is going on? Now, at first glance, at first listen, you're probably thinking to yourself, what in the world are you talking about? Well, ladies and gentlemen, analytic dreams video on Spotify to see the video along with the audio, because we're getting into something I've been clamoring. to dive into, which is Apple versus Epic. You guys.

See, that's the problem. Because sometimes you got to realize that the minuscule problems in the gaming industry, some of the huge conglomerates are fighting billion dollar battles behind the scenes that nobody reports on. And by nobody, I mean, obviously I'm being a little facetious as as far as the masses, they do not care about these billion dollar battles behind the scenes. the scene because if you don't know, Apple is approximately worth $3.5 trillion, the most valuable company in the world, well, one of the most valuable companies in the world. Epic last valued was at $22.5 billion. Safe to say, $3.5 trillion is a little bit more than $22.5 billion. But you know, that's just me.

right to put it in perspective apple's net worth is a hundred and fifty seven times larger than epics highlighting the vast scale and the discreferencey between apples net worth and epics network now obviously the reason why i bring that up is because this topic is very interesting and i just want to break it down like a kilo amy sly sly just to lay it out unless you do have the information which you will because I think this is one of the most entertained like people talk about the ditty trials what about the apple versus epic trials I'm out here like hold up now shepherd just look at the state of gaming like what is going on I'm trying to figure out what's going on in the state of gaming because this is a monumental back and forth now this all started 2020 right epic bypassed Apple's 30% fee with a direct payment in fortnight and with that being said Apple to themselves you're not going to maneuver around our specific guidelines for being on our platform so they completely removed fortnight right they terminated epic's developer account and the epic sued apple

as far as the northern district of california for violating so epic sued apple northern district of california is where it happened but as far as the suit the lawsuit Epic claimed Apple violated the Sherman Act, the California Cartwright Act. I never heard that before. And the California's UCLA Act. I guess they're blaming Apple for tearing this ACL. No, my fault. Let me not be ignorant in the segment.

So anyways, it violated the Sherman Act, the California's Cartwright Act, and then the California's UCL Act. Fast forward to 2021. We have Judge Yvonne Gonzalez. that rules that Apple is not a monopolist, which is for interest. You know, that may, hey, you guys, see, that's the problem. We got people out here, we got judges out here saying that Apple is a monopoly, you know, at this point, you know, that may be the problem, but that's what's the size of point. So, Judge Yvonne Gonzalez, Gonzalez, I think I'm saying it right, said, well, ruled that Apple is not a monopolist.

and it won nine out of the 10 claims. Anti-stering rules that violate, well, it didn't have rules that violate the California UCL. There was an injunction, meaning that Apple must allow links to external payments, meaning that, meaning that Epic breached contract justifying Fortnite's removal. So safe to say,

Fortnite ended up looking at the ruling and said to themselves there's no way they're siding with this trillion dollar company and lo and behold they absolutely were fast forward to 2022 to 2024 all type of appeals was happening because basically Apple hold on let me see basically Apple was in the courtroom right

this is the let's see this is the belt right and it was putting BTA on Epic that was putting a lot of of BT on EP in the in the courtroom like this right okay so y'all get the yeah i like that uh very professional demonstration okay anyways 22 to 2024 a lot of the appeals happen so 2023 the ninth circuit affirmed that apple is not a monopolist because epic was not going to let this go without a dying fight right um 2024 escotas decline to hear appeals ruling stood epic still didn't give up Because not only are they still bothering Apple with appeals, but now Apple spun the block twice.

You know how they was giving BTA, right? They spun the block twice. And they were like, hold up. You still trying to come back to this lawsuit? So they ended up adding a 27% commission on external payments made within seven days of link clicks. Shepard, just look at the state of gaming. Like, what is going on? have a look at the gaming landscape and wonder why is this more expensive in fortnight or why is this

more expensive on the epic store well now you know right that's why i say this is one of the more interesting back and forth i've seen in the gaming industry for quite some time fast forward from twenty twenty four to twenty five we have now well now in the current year of course right and in april of twenty twenty five judge rogers finds apple in civil contempt basically 27% commission and app restrictions violate the 2021 injunction. So with that being said, now Epic has some type of ground to stand on because Judge Rogers came out and said that they basically violated the 2021 injunction. So anyways, now Judge Rogers ordered Apple to have no. Apple commission on external payments for one no restrictions on developer user communication

and then refer to Apple exec for possible perjury over false testimony that is insane crazy developments in this back and forth between Apple and Epic that's why I've been very because you know I cover the entire music and gaming industry so I've been dying to get into this epic versus Apple because I think this is the most exciting back and forth as far as in the gaming industry because obviously apple's more of a tech company epic is much more into the gaming realm but apple is really affecting gaming in ways people don't even know so fast forward from there uh may 2025 apple rejects epic's new fortnight version and then court pressure forces approval and with that being said

Now, Fortnite is slated to return to the U.S. App Store on May 20th of this year. Of course, it's already on the App Store. But ultimately, I just want to let you know this back and forth has been going for quite some time. And these companies are forever going to hate each other. And all I'm going to say is, you know, I never want to advocate for certain corporations just blatantly, right? Just be like, oh, I'm just going to advocate for them because they got money. But on other hand, if you're going to choose your battle, This is this phrase that's been here for the beginning of time since the beginning of the inception of planet Earth.

Now, probably not that far back, but you get the point. There's been this phrase that's been thrown around for quite some time. Choose your battles wisely. And the reason why I say that is because I'm not just saying you should fall down. Oh, Apple has $3 trillion. So let me just fall down. I'm just saying going against Apple in this. out getting defeated in the courtroom coming back time and time again for appeal after appeal after

appeal to the point where the only thing they found ground to stand on was in the civil court by judge rogers right because we're not even talking about judge uh yvonne who was that one at so um all the way back in 2021 judge yvonne gonzalez ruled that app was not a monopolist winning nine out of the So since then it's just been straight appeals. Epic really hasn't been winning like some of the major conglomers might want you to think they are. Apple just has money to buy a whole corporation. Forget a building, forget the city, forget, well, I guess the country would be a lot. But they could buy whole corporations if they wanted to. I'm not saying that they may be doing things behind the scenes allegedly to make things going there at favor. because of course you know we want to think that the judge that the lawyers are respectable people and can't be bought off so that being said epic just being in bta for for quite some time and the reason why i'm diving into this is

because the reports have been saying the complete opposite they're like oh epic one on this uh front epic one on this front like no no no as of right now literally apple is demanding 73 million dollars in legal fees because they're like we won the case they're appealing the case but we technically won the case. We won our $73 million in legal fees. You guys. See, that's the problem. And Epic is not coming off of it.

So with that being said, they did launch Epic Games store on iOS. So now Apple briefly banned Epic Swedish dev account in 2024, citing untrustworthiness. So now all type of random games are going to be played. Since you tried to buck up to us and come at us in a way that nobody has ever went at Apple before, they probably looked at the whole gaming landscape. And it was like, this is the only developer that's out here acting up. You know what?

BTA. And now what, now you see what happened. Apple just doing whatever they want. So they banned, well, they briefly banned the Epic Swedish dev account, but they reinstated it after legal pressure. So they was like, you know what, we can't bully him too much. Or they're going to start pulling the Arboric Karen and go to the judge again. So with that being said, the main thing you need to know about the reports that Epic is winning

on any stretch of the imagination. technically they did win the whole external payments part which is a huge part for majority not majority but for a certain part of the cases it's a huge part so as far as external payments being allowed anti-steering being struck down that was one of the nine counts that they actually won one of the 10 counts that they actually went and apples control over the app store approval may mains remains intact so with that being said Technically, now in 2023 with Google, Epic 1, so they had to team up. You know, it's like KD and Steph Curry.

We can't be LeBron. Let's just team up. Mess up his legacy, things like that. You know what I'm saying? So, 2023, Epic teamed up with Google, right? And one, well, my fault. I totally misread that. It was actually, it was the opposite.

It was KD versus Steph. So Epic 1, separate case versus Google. Jury ruled Play Store practices anti-competitive. So Epic did. end up winning some cases but they just wasn't against apple they realized that apple is unequivocally one of the biggest corporations we've ever seen in human history not even just like five past five years 10 years not in our lifetime well yeah in all lifetime it's the greatest corporation one of the most profitable corporations we've ever seen i mean everybody has the apple product so that should

tell you something um so safe to say with apple with epic a lot of people are reporting this in an interesting fashion. I just try to go over the actual facts of what happened and then get my personal sentiments over it. Because if you look at it from a stakeholder standpoint, Epic is still doing phenomenal. Fortnite is still doing well. I think it's still one of the top five most play games on the Xbox and PlayStation platform. Actually, let me see.

So as of me recording this right now, as far as June, not June, as far as July, 6th, Second, Fortnite is not on the Xbox top 10 list, but it is currently the second most play game on PlayStation. That should tell you something. It's been out for a minute. So it's super just profitable as of right now and for the foreseeable future. So I'm not going to say that they're like anything to laugh at as far as going to Apple. I'm just saying Apple having $3 trillion.

Epic having like $22 billion. There's a huge discrepancy. And I think they're feeling that in a lawsuit battle because Apple has a lot of dollars to throw at things that they're not willing to throw money yet as far as Epic. So to put this in on layman's terms, as far as developers, you can now direct to cheaper payment options without Apple commissions. Spotify and Amazon updated their apps accordingly because they was like, hold them now. Epic may have just changed the game for it. So technically they wanted that certain aspect in that. certain realm of external accounts being as far as external payment options they won in that account

right so now other app apps are following suit that's why this is such a big deal you do something to the point where now spotify and amazon i was like hold up they won that so now let's change our apps and let's uh benefit off the external payments as far as on our site so now that that's why i'm basically letting you know how big of a deal it is um but for the most part apple one i mean as far as for for consumers you still got to pay but at the end of the day i mean you have the external payment links if you want to have cheaper in app purchases and epic also offered a 20% discount on vbugs via the web store web store so they're just letting you know that we don't mess with apple at all we're going to give you all the incentive in the world to use our web store but for apple the biggest thing they

want on was the monopolist label because if that would if that happened that would that would change the landscape forever for apple they would have had to do a lot of consolidating path uh consolidating actions because of them being considered a monopoly with that being said the app store revenue is at risk due to loss of commission dominance right i don't know what that means so then we have faces actually let me just look that up uh let me see all right you don't know what something is this might as well just look it up right um so it refers to the potential threat to apple's revenue from its app store which generates approximately 85 billion goodness gracious annually golly 85 billion annually primarily through commissions on in-app purchases and subscriptions

typically 15 to 30 percent loss of commission dominant oh okay just talking about the external stuff okay that makes sense but i'm gonna finish so quote uh loss of commission dominance means apple is facing challenges to control its uh apple is facing challenges to its control over these fees due to regulatory and legal pressures which could reduce its income all right so that makes sense that makes a lot sense um and then finally for apple faces increasing regulatory pressure globally. So now the epic has spoken up for the underdogs and they seemingly worn on this tiny aspect, but obviously he's going to have a chunk into the overall revenue of Apple because of the app store, right? So now if you can have external links, it makes it a

lot harder to make that $85 billion annually. So you know what I mean, poor Apple for not having $85 billion. Now they may have to just settle for like $70, $65 billion. I mean, what a what a sad world delivering you know what I'm saying you guys see that's the problem anyways as far as the ultimate conclusion I just want to let you know that Apple technically won on all of them except for one like I said and that is obviously going to chip into Apple's overall revenue and net earnings or yeah it's net earnings but at the end of the day when it comes to people reporting this the reporting it like epic it's just like whipping Apple in the courtroom and winning all type of cases when that's just not the case like they won this one yeah they're gonna lose some money because of the

external links being allowed but they won the monopolistic um is i you said they want them a man yeah monopolist label and with that being said that's a huge deal because that would have completely that would probably cut it in half probably more than half if they would have been labeled a monopoly so um same thing with rock nation and um no lob nation the touring company they run into the same thing And I've covered that if you want to hear me talk about that, just type in Live Nation analytic dreams with a Z and it should pop up. As I talked about Doge's blockbuster lawsuit against Live Nation, as when it comes to Live Nation and its subsidiary ticket master,

the suit alleges that Live Nation has illegally monopolized the live events industry leading to inflated ticket prices, reduced competition, and harm to artists and fans of like. So when it comes to blockbusters, if you end up winning, it really cuts into your overall revenue because now you got to give it away. Not give it away, but now you have to sell it. So you're not a night. So now you're not considered a monopoly. But yeah, so type in live nation, analytic dreams with a Z to hear me deep dive into that.

But as far as this specific topic, I think this is going to remain unfinished because Epic is not going to let it go. and they're going to continue to appeal and appeal until they realize until the courts realize that they're not going away without a fight so that being said click my link to share in my bio let me know on one of my social medias what did you think about my apple versus epic breakdown what did you like what didn't you like uh what stood out to you the most and at the end of the day whose side are you on epic or apple