And That's Why We Drink - And That's Why We Drink Wine (& Crime)! The Crossover Episode.

Episode Date: May 1, 2018

UFF-DA! It’s finally here! We are so thrilled to get the gals from Wine & Crime on the show to discuss some “wine-adjacent” stories. Em tells the crazy story of a haunted Missouri winery called Belvoir, where you can find ghost orphans, ghost elders, and, of course, wine. Meanwhile, Christine covers the tragic murder of Nancy Lyon, whose husband Richard "Dick" Lyon poisoned her vitamins, soda, and WINE! Be sure to check out our appearance on Wine & Crime by checking them out wherever you listen to podcasts, at their site www.wineandcrimepodcast.com, or on social media @WineandCrimePod!

all right well we're here back at the you know back in the studio the ranch and we the body ranch yes the body ranch this is and that's why we drink we never actually say the title of our show yeah we this is the first time we've ever tried to start an episode by actually starting the episode and not just awkwardly having a mid-conversation. Right. We assume that everyone has found our show by accident, and we have to say the name of our show to make sure people know where they are. That's a really fair point.

Well, we have, as you can tell, we have some guests with us this time around. Some special guests that a lot of people have been waiting for. So Wine and Crime, introduce yourselves. What up? Yeah, we are the gals from Wine and Crime. I'm Kenyon. I'm Lucy. I'm Amanda. And we're doing this. Congratulations. We're here on And That's What I'm Drinking. And we are special guests.

Now in the bag, we just recorded a crossover with these beauties. That's right. We're going to go into round two. Yeah, we are on top of our game right now. Just an episode. If you guys want to hear the first half of this lovely morning day,

please go. We are spending the whole day together. The whole day. Listen, I broke out the wine at 10 a.m. for these gals, so you know, that's when it's something special. And I think we lucked out because we're doing our episode second, which means that everyone's good and tipsy now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So everyone's all loosey and goosey and expectations are low. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So everyone's all loosey-goosey. Expectations are low. And I'm loosey. Life is good. Yeah, loosey is loosey-goosey. It's all good. I'm going to start unabashedly hitting on Em now.

Em night Shyamalan twist. Let's see. Get the party started. Sorry. Let's alert both of our significant others. So we, like we just said, a lot of people have been looking for this to happen for a long, long time. But everyone's time zones are just totally messed up. We have not been able to make it work for like a year now. So we got our South African guest here, our international speaker.

South Africa to L.A.? Shocker. Not great. Not a great time difference. So we finally made it happen. Basically 800 hours apart. Yes, it seems so. Yes.

So usually what we do to start off the show is we talk about why we're drinking this week. Yes. Does anyone have a... It could be positive or negative. It's always funnier when it's negative. what we do to start off the show is we talk about why we're drinking this week yes um does anyone have a it could be positive or negative it's always funnier when it's negative um but does anyone have anything they want to shout out i am drinking this week because adulting is just being excited about having ingrown toenail surgery yeah Yeah, that happened. So that's why I'm drinking. That's like a very legitimate reason. I've had two ingrown

toenail surgeries, one on each big toe. Fun fact and disgusting fact for everyone, my toenails have never grown the same way. That'll be fun for you to experience. I can't wait.

I don't care how nasty these babies look later on. As long as I never have another ingrown toenail, I will be praising the heavens. That must be super painful. It's the worst. It sucks.

If you accidentally stub your toe, you feel like a nail went into your toe. Like a toenail, if you accidentally stub your toe, you feel like a nail went into your toe. Like a toenail, if you will. If you will. Oh, my God. I think knowing that Em is an ex-clown with two nasty big toenails has, like, escalated my attraction through the fucking stratosphere. I don't have, like, beast toes. I just, like, they just look like they went to jail for a little and came out changed.

Yeah. I like my S.O.'s to be good and weird and a little nasty. Your toes have been ridden hard and put away wet. They have a life to tell. Each of them. Scars are always attractive.

Well, my reason for drinking this week is similar to the approach of middle age it's because I was in bed at like 8.30 last night didn't even have time to drink on a Saturday night so now I'm drinking on a Sunday morning I mean sometimes you just gotta make up for it

in your own special way I did drink last night and I'm also drinking on a sunday morning so surprise we'll have this conversation later m you can sit with us we don't give a fuck how much you drink i really okay to be fair like christine is not like a total lush like i really like hype it up for the show and she's just a good sport about it i'm sure a lot of people are like wondering if we need to put her in a it's actually my parents get like a little bit worried when they just sometimes occasionally tune in and they're like um did

we do something wrong i'm like yes but you don't have to worry about me it's fine meanwhile i'll be blackout drunk on an episode and my mom doesn't bat an eye that's my daughter that's the one my mom knows she went wrong when i just refuse to drink alcohol because i'm just so afraid of what it will do oh yes that's that's when you know you really fucked up it's like it's one thing to ruin your child to a point where they're drinking but it's another to ruin them too like they don't even want to try it they're scared the other way y Good point. So that's why you're not drinking this week. No, I'm drinking this week because I,

after this, have to work today. What? Why? Oh, what? It's a, well, okay, here's, everyone's going to tell me that, like, I don't get to complain because it's the best job in the world, but, like, I have to go see a movie for work today. It's still work.

Which movie? What movie? A Quiet Place. What? Lucky. Well, because we worked on the movie, and so we have to go see it so we can do a report on it. And so I have to, I mean, my ticket gets paid and everything, so I guess I can't complain. Yeah, your face right now looks like you're not too upset about it.

everything so i guess i can't complain yeah your face right now looks like you're not too upset about it did you make all the trumpets all the maracas all the accordions oh yeah all the things that they definitely used in a quiet place yeah a quiet place saxophones i clearly am not thinking of the same movie yeah and i played one of the aliens. What is happening? Well, I'm drinking because after this, I have to go to a tax appointment because now I'm an adult. And Blaze was like, by the way, don't forget about our tax appointment on Sunday. And I was like, what? Allison came home after hanging out with you and your, I was going to say your brother, but Blaze is not your brother. Whoops. Whoa. Ew. Whoa.

Um, but not with that attitude. He's not, but, uh, Alison came home from hanging out with you guys. And she was like, they're real adults.

Like they're talking about taxes over there. And I just wanted to go. It was too much. Talking about taxes. I mean, blaze is like, what does this mean that you wrote down on this paper? And I just start crying and I'm like,

I don't know. Call my mom. She knows knows that's talking about that's how adults talk about taxes that's what i do i don't really understand anyway i wrote off that i have a home office because of this podcast but also i don't pay rent oh Oh. Yeah, I wrote off this room too. I had to measure it with a tape measure. I measure mine with a tape measure. It's crazy. I filed for a tax extension, and that's all I've done so far. That sounds pretty good to me.

I don't even know what that means. I'm super easy to do. I'm lucky because my stepdad is my tax guy oh that's nice can he be my mold guy yeah we all need we all need Tom to be our tax guy now

our mold guy I'm drinking because I had to put my dog down this week that's a real reason nothing else matters except your reason. Can you tell us a funny story about him? Oh, my God. So many funny stories.

Yeah, let's hear about them. Well, so this was my sweet baby boy, Burke. He had pulmonary hypertension and took low doses of Viagra every day. He liked to rock a bow tie. He was everybody's friend. And he was a sex maniac, sex addict, if you will, but only under very specific circumstances. So he used to live in a foster situation, so there'd be other dogs coming through all the time.

Right. And there was one particular beauty. Her name was Penny. Penny. Penny. Penny. And she was an unfixed Jack Russell Terrier. Oh, my. What a slut.

No, no. She was wholesome and beautiful. And Burke just could not stay out of her. I mean, to be fair. Yeah. And you know what? She was enjoying it. Like, this was not a one-sided situation. It was consensual. Consensual.

And one day, she had her appointment to be fixed, and, you know, they went in, they took out all the necessary equipment, they patched her up, they sent her back home, and Burke sauntered up to her, accepting to receive her back with equal vigor and excitement. Took one sniff of her downstairs. Made a face, like a disgusted face. Walked away.

Never had sex with her again. Oh, Penny. He just smelled rejection. Penny had been yeah, Penny had been tainted at that point and he was no longer interested. Even though he was fixed, it's not like

there was possibility of fertility. But he didn't know that. He didn't remember. He didn't know. Poor baby. That was Burke. He was a real special guy. I mean, to be fair you were feeding him viagra so it's not his fault that viagra was originally made for pulmonary hypertension that's a good point just a side effect it's okay yeah one time his teeth he was so smelly he was

the smartest boy in the world one of his teeth just fell out in my bed once. And he just didn't even care. He was just like rotting. Yeah, this boy was dying long before. He was very old. Did you keep the tooth? No. Lucy! It's on a necklace around her neck. That was my next question.

What kind of jewelry did you make from it? None. My mom actually we were out to lunch one time and we were eating soup, which is like the least chewy food on earth. It's the definition of not chewy food. And she, out of nowhere, is like, something's in my mouth. And she pulled out her tooth. And I was like, what the? And she shrugged it off and just put it on the napkin and kept

eating her soup and i was like i have so many questions and she was like she was like that just happens and i was like what do you mean what do you mean you reach a point in your life for your teeth to start falling into your soup if you were like an. I could have almost blamed it on that, but I was like, you're eating soup. This is the least opportune time. She would have to have been a dentist and it would have come out. I found out later that it wasn't her

tooth, although we both thought it was her tooth because it was on top of her tooth. It was someone else's tooth? I was really worried for a minute. I was like, this sounds like it could be worse. Well, for her to say like, oh, that just happens. I was like, do your teeth

just fall out and you just walk on through life like that's not a problem? They just come into your soup? No. They're not. Oh my god. Okay, well that's why I drink. Yeah. Anyway, you're done. You're a mother of a same. I've added a lot of reasons to my list. Thank you guys.

I'm terrified now. Now I can't ever eat soup again. Yeah, yikes. Soup's been ruined. Thanks, Linda. I can never smile again. I just don't chew on it. Thanks a fucking lot.

Okay, so before I get into a story with you guys, I know Christine's stance on this for obvious reasons, but how many of you are believers in the supernatural paranormal world? Me. Me. I would say I'm about like 65% there. There she is.

I am 600%. Yeah, I'm a fucking witch. I stayed in a haunted hotel this weekend. You did? Falls deep. Where'd you stay? The St. James hotel is one of the most haunted hotels in the country wait say it again so i can cover it the saint james hotel it's in red wing minnesota oh did i do that i don't know if you did that i don't think i did did anything we snuggled in no there was a wedding there so like any paranormal activity was shrouded by like drunk people singing in the hallway.

Oh, sure, sure, sure. I think you mean love. Loving. Wedding bliss. What is a wedding but drunk people singing in the hallway, though? Yeah, pretty much. But we like snuggled in. We watched The Shining.

We were in the snowpocalypse. Like it was amazing. Oh, my. Okay, okay. that's fair do you have any does anyone have any personal paranormal stories they'd like to share as far as i remember you guys have like a combined story right we do we do have a joint story that's not exactly paranormal though it's not i've definitely had some paranormal experiences in a couple of houses that I've lived. I've also worked in two original firehouses in Minnesota. Oh, wow. with theater company it's called the mixed blood theater company and yeah it's really really fucking cool this place does amazing work but i used to be their box office manager so a lot of

times i would be there later at night after rehearsals were over and everything was done just processing people's like subscription packages right that was really tedious administrative work um and the main the theater and the box office were downstairs. And then upstairs was basically a big open rehearsal space and then some offices. And you could very clearly, the ceiling was very thin and you could hear when people were like stomping around up there rehearsing. Yeah. And I used to hear people walking around, running around, like kids playing, things like that upstairs when I was the only one in the building to the point where i started bringing my dog in at night to just sit with me no callie i was like bert's gonna like take some viagra and handle the situation the sounds of people would be so vivid that I would check the entire building and then take a walk around the building.

That's terrifying. To just be sure that there weren't other people there. It never really felt all that threatening, but it was definitely weird. It's creepy. The place I work in now, our wine room is in the basement. And I was down there once getting some wine and I not only heard but felt the air of someone whistling right next to my ear and I thought it was one of the line cooks like fucking with me so I flipped around ready to punch somebody and no one was

there I checked the prep kitchen I checked everywhere in the basement and no one was there and i went back upstairs like white as a sheet and my co-workers were like what the fuck happened but stuff happens in there all the time we'll come into the open the restaurant in the morning and there will be like broken plates on the ground what wild for no reason yeah it's super weird oh my god yeah you wanted me to have my wedding there thanks i did it's beautiful it's gorgeous. It is gorgeous. It's a gorgeous place. They do a great brunch. And when there are a lot of people there, the ghosts are too scared to come out. They're like mice.

I have a ghost story. Oh, go ahead. I'll keep it short because it can be very long, but it is it has to do with a psychic that we had on one of our episodes. My psychic, Charles Tiemann. I listened to that episode. I love that episode. Yeah. So you might have heard

me tell this story. I don't remember if I actually told it. But the short version is I bought a photograph from an antique store probably six or seven years ago. And it's like an old sepia photo, old timey photo of a family and there's a dead child in

the photo like sitting in the front on a chair those like 19th century photos where they like jack up the corpse in like an outfit yeah post-mortem victorian yeah so i bought it obviously two dollars of course i bought it only two dollars yeah, it was in a bin with just a bunch of other old photos. Like, I don't think whoever priced it realized that there was a dead child in the photo. You never know. Said it was valuable cargo. So I had it on my shelf of oddities for, like, two years. And then one night I was home by myself, and I heard a noise.

And I thought it was one of my cats. So I like went out into the dining room, like thinking that it was, you know, they knocked something off and they were both crouched on the floor with all their fur up and like their tails were huge and their eyes were huge. And I was like, oh my God, it obviously was not one of the cats. Right. So this photo was face down on the floor. Oh my God.

And it had been on the same shelf for like two years. Like it didn't like it didn't it didn't just fucking fall off the shelf no way there's no way and the cast were freaked out yeah no yeah and i was home alone so i picked up the photo i put it on the table and i went back to bed and i shut the door and i turned off the lights and i like covered up my head i was like i'm dealing with this in the morning i I was half asleep to begin with anyway. And then a couple minutes later, I felt like a depression on my pillow right next to my head. And I assumed it was, again, one of my cats. It's very convenient to have cats that you can blame creepy shit on all the time. So I lifted up my eye mask to see which cat it was, because one of

them likes being pet and one of them does not. So I wanted to see which cat it was because one of them likes being pet and one of them does not so i wanted to like confirm which cat it was right oh my god you're such a fucking cat person there were no cats in the room the door was shut and no cats were in the room yeah so later i talked to the psychic and he he told me that it was the mother who had this photograph on her bureau for the rest of her life. Because the kid's probably four in the picture. Oh, my God. So she was pouring all of her grief and her energy into this photograph for her entire life. And so the photo was full of all this energy. And that's why it fell on the floor.

And then the little boy's spirit was the one who was scared and was trying to climb into bed with me for comfort. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So then I felt bad for saying out loud, please leave me alone. You're scaring me. Because that's what you're supposed to do when there's a ghost scaring you. You just ask them to leave. But now I've realized it was a four-year-old boy.

It's probably just sad. So next time he visits me, I'll be more friendly. Oh, my God. That just gave me chills. I'm staring at the photo right now. It's right next to my recording. Oh, you still have it? Whoa.

I want to see it. Can you send a photo later of the photo? Hell yeah. Yeah. If you guys get haunted, though, it's not my fault. Okay, fair. We do make that disclaimer all the time on this podcast we're like if anything happens don't fucking blame us because we actually have had a lot

of experiences in this house and she's only lived here since like september yeah yeah like while we're recording shit goes down my like my little cousin uh now she's 11 but when she was a little bit younger like more like five or six she it was almost like she could like she could see things that adults couldn't see oh basically and so there was this one time where she I don't I don't have all the details I have to like talk to my aunt and remind myself all the details but the essentials is that like my aunt woke up and my little cousin was like downstairs sitting on the couch in the living room like early in the morning my aunt was like you know what are you doing down here whatever and she's like oh i was just talking to the man my aunt was like what what are you talking about she's like backing out of the room. And my little cousin was like,

you know, whatever. And she like described this elderly man to a T. And like, I can't remember the details, but if he had a mustache, she like described the mustache and all this stuff and height and everything and what he talked about and all this stuff. And she said that he was just like sitting on the couch with her.

And then, you know, my aunt was like, my aunt believes in all the like woo-woo stuff. Me too. But like even more like crystals and salt rooms. That's Christine. That's me. L.A. has changed me. It's too late to go back. Lucy's into all that stuff too. Oh, yeah. Des Moines has changed me too. too late to go back lucy's into all that stuff too oh yeah um des moines has

changed me too if i haven't heard that a million times always so anyway so then my aunt like did some research and talked to the neighbors that had lived in their house longer or like lived in the neighborhood longer and the neighbors were like well you know whatever what did he look like and she described him to a t and they were like yeah that's the previous owner he died in that So they knew the actual guy that she was talking about? Cool. Oh no. Yeah, they literally were like, yeah, that's Ted or whatever the fuck his name was.

Classic Ted. Classic Ted. Just like sitting on the couch watching cartoons. Oh my God. Literally just sitting on the couch. When I was younger, not in my house, uh i was staying at another house and i remember seeing a woman standing over my bed while i was sleeping oh my and my mom was sleeping in the bed with me because we were staying at someone else's house and i remember trying to wake her up being like

there's an old woman staring at us right now and she is pissed off that we're in this bed and my mom true to form like, just go to bed. But then the next day, I brought it up and I guess they were trying to hide it from me since I was a little kid. But apparently, the guy's house that we were staying at, his mother died in that room. Oh, God. Oh, my Lord.

I like your mom just being like, just go back to sleep. She wasn't even saying it nicely. She was like, go to bed. You're pissing me off. Yeah. Standard mothers. Oh, my Lord.

Classic mom. I believe in a lot of intuition stuff. Sometimes my aunt and I have the same tattoo. Same aunt that I'm talking about. We have the same tattoo because we had the same dream about my deceased grandmother and her deceased mother on the same night. Oh, wow. Yeah, so we both got the same tattoo. You know, like, so I believe in some of it, but not all of it.

Dreams are real, you guys. I dream about our friend who passed away a few years ago all of the time. And in my dream, I can say to her, I know you're dead, but it's really cool to see you and how's everything going and we have conversations. And it's acknowledged in my dream that she's dead.

I've had some crazy dreams about my dad who passed away four years ago where I can feel him holding my hand. I have woken up still being able to feel. That's incredible. I've had a dream where his hand was on my shoulder. Yeah. I have woken up, like still being able to feel that's incredible. Like I've had a dream where like his hand was on my shoulder. Like it's crazy. It's like,

you are, he's absolutely there. That's crazy. My mom and my grandpa or my boy, my mom and her dad, her dad died when I was seven, but she, whenever she's really stressed out,

she can have dreams where she like says before she goes to bed, like, I really need you dad. Like I really need to have a conversation with you tonight and he'll show up in her dreams and like talk her through it wow that's amazing oh i just got such goosebumps me too i love that stuff i want to try that everybody's like always talking about this we're all granola hippies over here love it or des moines i mean or des moines i mean if you're feeling eastern about it yeah like take whatever's easiest they're pretty much the same thing

eastern medicine oh my god if you want all the crystals and none of the weather that's right also true to form in la we have a lot of uh that we have some sirens going on in the background so sorry we have some i'm sure we're ruining your audio. Extra noise. Whatever. We always have like barking dogs, so. Yeah. I just had Gio saying hello a couple minutes ago.

Yep. Amanda's usually eating. My dad barks. I'm not now. I'm not. Thank God. So I wanted to do a story this week in honor of you guys. I wanted it to be wine themed.

Sure, sure. Yes. So I am doing a haunted winery. Hey. Yes. Right on brand. Let's buy it. And it's in Liberty.

I tried to find one in Minnesota. Minnesota. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I could only find Missouri. Missouri. It's close. It's close enough.

Two states away. Close enough. It starts with the same Missouri. Missouri. It's close. It's close enough. Two states away. Close enough. It starts with the same letter. Yeah, it's meh is what I was going for. I'm on board. So this is in Liberty, Missouri, and it's called the Belvoir Winery. Sounds fancy. Ooh.

Okay. All right. Okay. So we're all on board, I see. It sounds fancy except for the Liberty, Missouri part. Right, yeah right yeah it sounds french and then it sounds like it's in missouri i feel like liberty missouri was the birthplace of french wine oh yeah i've heard you know what i think i've also heard that and i also agree yes i'm going with that's real. I like that theory. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all the way back in 1887, and it started as a hotel called the Reed Springs Hotel. Okay.

And I'm just giving you guys a little bit of history, but then we'll get to the good stuff. In 1895, it was sold. It's no longer a hotel. it was sold it's no longer a hotel it was sold to a secret society known as the its initials are IOOF which is not a good abbreviation

it's like IOOF but the secret society's name is the International Order of Odd Fellows get out of here we are all members of that now yeah i will sign a fucking blood oath i want to be a part of it actually i looked into i looked into how to become a member

of this because oh my god yes to me it sounded a lot like x-men like the yeah the school of yeah yeah mutants and so um apparently you actually have to be a participant for five years before you can even apply. Don't make me participate in anything. Don't make me participate. Let's start now. So it's surprisingly actually a really helpful secret society. I was expecting it to be some shady shit. Is it philanthropic?

Yes. Volunteerism. It's leaders in the community that take care of orphans and elderly people that are in need of care. Are you kidding me? Wow. Okay. And it's been around since the I think 1900 it was officially established, but it started in 1895.

I cannot believe this is a thing that I've never heard of. I know. We should all join it. I can dig it. I kind of diminished my enthusiasm once I found out what they actually did. It's a little less exciting, I guess. I know. I really thought everyone had a power. But there is wine, apparently. They own a vineyard. That's true.

They knew exactly where to set up shop. So, the order, as they're called, by themselves. By themselves. By themselves only. Of the Phoenix. Of the Phoenix. Joy.

They used this property as a place to house, teach, and nurse orphans and the elderly that did not have a home. Wow. And so they had multiple buildings. Three of them still stand. One of them is caringly called the old folks home. Oh. Charming. What are they called?

Ayoof. The youth old folks home. It's called Oofta. Old folks home. I've already bought a plot. Bring it to the writer's room with harry porter harry harry potter that's the one so this place was actually pretty advanced for the early 1900s they were self-sustained by their own farm where the elderly taught the children how to garden and

farm so they actually made their own produce that sounds like a movie yeah it was really much like the boxcar children but also with elderly people what's that hotel majestic children there's also wine and yeah i like this story so far and so the uh the kids had daily chores and they it was basically like a mentorship where the elderly were staying fit by you know chasing around children and the children were learning from the elderly people. So it was like a hand in hand kind of thing. Yeah. And they also had a hospital on site, which for a while was the only medical facility

in Liberty, Missouri. Oh. And it even had its own laboratory. Ooh. You mean a laboratory. Right. Yeah. Liberty, Missouri.

We're talking. This is the French guys. guys the french the birthplace of french wine yes la laboratory la laboratory and so um the i also the grand lodge which it is not on this property it's just like their their main hub uh-huh um they're one of their rules is it's impossible under their law for any of their homes to reject an applicant due to physical disability oh okay progressive yeah very progressive super progressive so even if you weren't uh an orphan or an elderly person if you were in desperate need of medication that no one was like and no one else was looking out for

you they would take you in. That's so kind. We also had an old school. I'm sorry, Gio is making a lot of noises. Gio's crying outside. He hears us laughing and then he gets jealous. He wants to be in on the joke. Bring him in. Put him in your lap.

I feel your pain. Can we take like a 30 second break? I have to pee so bad. That's fine. Oh, please do. Yeah, I'm going to deal with Gio for one second. Okay. Gio, honey. Hi, bear.

Do you know how many times I, Christina and I have to like pause for any reason at all? It's like, oh, I have to sneeze for the next five minutes. Excuse me. Natural. Natural. Good. One of our first, actually, it was our first interview we ever had. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. We were on Hillbilly Horror Stories, and we had ordered a pizza thinking it would show up perfectly after the interview. So as soon as we were done, we would be like, oh, we can have pizza. And he knocked on the door right behind us and or right in front of us and geo flipped the fuck out and then we had to be like sorry we ordered a pizza and they were like on a real interview not like it could be really edited yeah it was really awkward anyway hey we've been there. We get it. Yeah, yeah. We're good at this. It's fine. Yeah, we're professionals. Anyway.

Okay, go on. Who even knows where we were? Oh, I don't know, actually. There were old people. Godfellows. There were a lot of old people. That they had to provide free medication. Yes, yes. So it was a medical facility that was already super progressive on top of being a self-sustaining farm.

Sure. And it was just the biz. It was the stuff. That was ideal. And so they also had a school that had the first instrumental music classes that were offered in Missouri. Oh, Lord. When was this? 2001?

Yes. Just kidding. There was also a boys band that was organized through this, and they made annual tours around the state. And their name was NSYNC. Oh. Maybe. Maybe so. Stop.

About Missouri. I mean, I don't know if their name was NS sync, but I imagine their name was like the Odd Fellows. The Odd, yeah, the IOOFs. Again, O-Town. O-Town. Hey, O-Town. O-Town. The education that they actually received at, what was it fucking called?

Oh, yeah, the Order. The Order, sure, sure, sure so the education there was much more superior to what other kids were being taught at the time and college tuition was provided for them as early as the 1920s holy because these people i guess like you have to be i don't know if you have to be wealthy but you have to be really willing to donate a lot of money to be a part of this organization oh i'm out and so we're out and so anyone that i think it said back then everyone's membership fee was like two dollars and that was in the 1800s oh and so yeah so it was a lot of money but all the money went straight towards the building and college tuition and everything like that. Okay.

Also, they had a really healthy family life there. And not family life like there were families living there because they're orphans. Delicate. Rub it in. Orphans are hilarious. I'm glad you said it. Orphans are hilarious. I'm glad you said it.

So, but like they tried to encourage a family lifestyle with all the people who lived there. So they had heavy music recitals, literary recitals that the children would perform for the elderly. And they also had book subscriptions, newspaper subscriptions, and magazine subscriptions to encourage reading. And they actually had a class in the 1920s to teach the kids how to build radio sets. They had free movies, practical skills, practical skills. And they had,

um, they had movies for free, which at the time were called moving pictures. Oh, sure. And, uh, Nickelodeons,

don't you know, at the laboratory watch a racehorse running over and over on a loop? Yes It's just a flip book And O-Town was playing the soundtrack Actually, yeah, the band orchestrated the whole thing I love the idea that O-Town

are like immortal It just makes sense to me that that's who it was. I mean, it's the only reason they had a career. Right. They owe everything to O-Town. Immortal orphan orphan locks. What's that totally random anecdote?

And feel free to cut this. Not going to. As we so often do on our show. Just kidding. So, not going to keep going as we so often do on our show when my mom had a hysterectomy there it is good start i knew i knew we were going i'm already sold making the band or whatever the show about right town was on tv and my mom is so not into pop culture or anything remotely or even television like she's so not into that but she was like hopped up on these pain meds oh boy recuperating for a few weeks and like the only thing she watched was this fucking O-Town reality TV show.

I feel like I remember this period of your life. I was watching Megan the Band as my new favorite little image. Megan the Band? That was such a weird one hit wonder show. Did you do that song about breaking up and it was like the hardest part of breaking up

is getting back my stuff? My mom would love this. My one hoodie I left when I had dinner with your family. Because you're in 10th grade. Shut up. She would like cry because one of the characters was from Hawaii

and he missed his family and my mom would like stop. She was so moved. Just like weep. That he missed his family. Listen mom would like she was so moved like just like that he missed his family like percocet makes you really empathetic okay i've been there that's a hell of a drug the whole series of weeds when i got my uh wisdom teeth out when i got my wisdom teeth out i became really in because i mean it was like a I guess I found it at the exact quote right moment, if there was ever such a thing, where I became really into Degrassi. Oh dear.

Yes. Oh my God. But here's the thing. The reason I call it the right time is because I got my wisdom teeth out on like my 15th birthday. So happy birthday to me. Yeah. And also it was summer.

And so I guess they had it on like a 24 hour loop because it was leading up to the new it was leading up to the new season and so at any hour i could come to from the medication and be watching degrassi oh my god and my mom was taking care of me so she also started watching a lot of degrassi. And it's basically like a soap opera for teenagers. And my mom loves soap operas. So to this day, every now and then, she's like, whatever happened to that show with Fiona and Declan? I'm like, what's going on with them?

Let me tell you about Drake. Let's transition to Drake. My origin story for my obsession with Canada. Oh my god. Yes, I do have a good Canadian TV show if anything. That's fair. If it doesn't involve Percocets, we don't want to hear it right now. No, we don't. We don't. Stay away.

Anyway, back to the school of orphans, guys. Back to the hilarious orphans. Right, right, right. The comedy matter for the show. Yeah. There was also a Sunday school meet-up group that was conducted at the home and there was transportation provided for any like choice of church service so they would

truck you out to wherever you wanted to go for church jeez they had holidays that were always celebrated often say that again i was to say as long as you fucking wanted to go to church they'll make sure you exactly as what if you went to like the satanic church you really what if would they truck you there i don't know we don't we don't offer services that reliable for like our differently abled population but if you want to get to fucking church in missouri in like 1901 we're gonna get you there yeah i don't get we will only have one cart and buggy but but if you can hold onto the wheel real tight. What if your church was like the VFW?

Yeah. That counts. Holidays were also celebrated, often complete with presents and food and refreshments provided by the home. And there was a monthly family dinner for over 600 people

that was held celebrating any child or elderly person's birthday that month. Oh, my God. That's so precious. I want to be an orphan. It was like a perfect homecoming. Me too. It was like the cults before they go bad. Right.

It's like that prime golden hour of a cult. Yeah. The rash niche. Yes. Oh, my God. I totally would have lived with them and then they started poisoning the rest of the town like inexplicably. It just like got real bad

real quick. Jerks. It escalated. Someone made one bad idea while they were a little too energetic. Yeah. Too excited. Too excited. It only takes one bad idea though you guys. We've learned this the hard way. That's the lesson that you should take away from both our podcasts. We've learned this over and over. There's one thing our shows have taught you.

So, I mean, it was a great story up until now, but of course it had to come to an end, because this is a story about ghosts. Oh, no. And people have to turn into ghosts, don't they? I was hoping they'd be happy ghosts, though. I mean, they would, but something has to happen for them to get to that point. Okay, fair. Yep, they gotta die.

Yes, there's gotta be a crossover, much like this episode. Oh, good point. Okay, fair. Yep, they gotta die. There's gotta be a crossover, much like this episode. Oh, good time. Execution style. So, in the 1900s, here's my, like, novel expertise research, by the way. Something was frozen.

That's my information, I think. What does that even mean? Something was frozen. My heart, my eggs. We have so many possibilities. The possibilities are endless. I'm just saying compared to if you guys go back and if you listen to the wine and crime crossover episode first, before this one,

you'll hear just how unbelievably research they are. And then all of a sudden my dumb ass is like something got frozen. My expression is currently frozen no we only seem unbelievably researched in that episode because only kenyan wrote a case if you get a taste of my cases it's like i don't fucking know people died moving on oh have you ever listened to an episode where i'm trying to explain multiple floors of a building because isn't that every episode yes i'm because on the fourth floor oh wait I mean the second floor you're like wait which one's above the fourth is there a fifth I don't know the basement's basement um so in the 1900s something was frozen in the basement so it was some I'm assuming something mechanical to keep the place going. Okay. And so because it was the 1900s and they weren't scientists or using common sense.

They had a laboratory. There's no way to know. They didn't use it though, I guess. Oh, oh, oh. Science didn't exist in the 1900s. Definitely not. And who knows? I mean, 1900, that's like 100 years to play with.

So who knows? Right. In the 1900s, something was frozen in the basement. Sure. And to unfreeze it, they used blowtorches. Oh, my. Oh, no. Of course. Match.

I'm guessing boiler. And so they accidentally burned everything down. Oh, no. Oh, my God, yes. I mean, no. I mean, who could have thought that would happen? Who could have guessed? So, currently,

that's literally all the history, by the way, so who knows what happened next? So, something froze and then they all just went up in flames. Yeah. Everything froze and then everything got really hot. Oh my. Okay. So, there's only three buildings left from that time that are still standing.

Tell me the laboratory survived. The laboratory did not. The administration building did. Oh, thank God. Who could forget that? The hospital. The paperwork. And, of course, the old folks' home.

The old folks' home. Thank God. Thank God. I'm a little bummed that the old folks' all made it, if we're going to be real. Also, the orphanage, I think it was the hospital, but one of the three buildings that's still standing was also used as

the orphanage originally. I'm going to hope it's one of the ones still standing. I do too. Yeah. And so there's also an on-site cemetery where almost a thousand people are buried so there's also an on-site cemetery where almost a thousand people are buried. Oh, shit.

There's always an on-site cemetery. Well, in this case, it's because a lot of the elderly didn't have anyone to arrange burials for them. Oh, sad. Right. So they have like a cemetery. So when the elderly people left, they didn't have any, they didn't have, you know, you know. They had no one to contact. It was elderly and orphans, right?

Not elderly orphans. Elderly orphans. I'm just making sure. Some of them might have had family. I don't know. Maybe they did. Put my shit on a poorly constructed Viking raft and push me out to sea.

A Viking funeral? Yeah, I don't give a shit. The middle of Lake Minnetonka. By the way, I'm wearing Minnetonkas today. I am. Just for you. Just because I knew that exact Viking burial

comment would happen. My heart is as warmed as the crematory of this laboratory. That's quite a compliment. Post blow torches. Clearly this whole episode we have scripted and rehearsed several times.

Yeah. If you can't tell. No, I actually fun fact, I grew up with my dad. Anytime we're home, he would wear Minnetonkas. They were his favorite shoe. I have some in the past. That's literally the part of Minnesota that we're from.

Oh, really? Yeah, we're from Minnetonka. I know. I'll take a picture of you in my shoes later. Let's go. They have a buffalo plaid, red buffalo plaid on the inside. Sure. Super cool.

Oh, you've got to know it. You've got to. You've got to go plaid when you're going minnetonka oh yeah that's their slogan the three of us went to minnetonka high school shut the fuck up i never okay yeah i know this is gonna sound super stupid but i didn't know minnetonka was a town i thought minnetonka was like the company that just made these shoes it's a big old suburb of Minneapolis. It means big lake. Makes sense with the Minnetonka.

Minnetonka, Minneapolis. Minnesota is many lakes and Minnetonka is big lake, right? Yep. Yep. Who to thunk? Look at you. I mean, we're geography experts always. Always.

First and foremost. Today we're just letting it slide so you look smarter than us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. We really appreciate that. This is all... Thank you. We need it.

So nice of you. You're welcome. I knew you guys were really going to try with your story, which is why I kept mine too. Something got frozen. Something got frozen. Back to the orphans. Sorry. Back to the orphans.

Back to the orphans. Back to the orphans. Currently, the orphanage, or the property that these buildings stand on, is now operating as a winery and a nine-bedroom inn. I forgot this was a winery. We're going. Yeah, we're super going. Let's go. I mean, it's only two states away for you guys. Yeah, let's go do a live show there.

Kenny and Lucy, no, you are not allowed to fucking go there without me. I'm leaving right now. I have to go, you guys. No. Guys, we're doing a live show there together, all of us. I'm so excited. Let's do it. Let's do it.

So here is where things get creepy so um they still actually have some of the remaining items from when it was uh owned by the order and so i thought you were gonna say remains oh just actually there's children's skeletons so um they actually like in the nine bedroom in they still have nurse clothing hospital equipment and school supplies all from the late 1800s yeah that's this place is only six hours and 48 minutes if you drive the speed limit from my house oh my god we're definitely doing it let's go we're going we're going like us driving like san francisco That's like us driving to, like, San Francisco. That's like us driving across half the city of LA.

Yes. Yeah, in traffic. It takes about five hours for me to get to work every morning, actually. Yep, yep. So they have an in-house paranormal research team. That's great. Yes, they do. Full fucking time? Like, they come in every single week

and on Fridays in October they do ghost tours with people. And on Wednesdays they wear pink. Making my reservations. And they are known as Creeps with a Z. I'm sorry. Creeps with a Z.

I kind of hate that but I'm going to let it go because it sounds like a dream job i just feel like our failed tagline from our first episode that only made it one or two episodes pretty much keep it creepy keep it creepy and then we're like no this is creepy we're cutting it we're becoming the creeps yeah so creeps stands for city and rural explorers examining paranormal zones. Oh, they are so full of it. They just were like, what words can we make into this with a Z? Literally.

Yeah, they picked creeps with a Z first. For sure. And then they fucking created. Ultra high premiums. I was a paranormal investigator, and I can tell you no one ever calls anything a paranormal zone unless you're a ghost buster yeah exactly so um fun fact sci-fi channels uh ghost hunters has filmed an episode there nice and i'm just gonna start we've got quite a list of things for me to read to you about i'm ready things that have happened here.

Oh, my God. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Ghosts, ghosts, ghosts. So I thought you were saying go, go, go. I'm also saying that. So ghost sightings have included, can you guess, orphan children. Oh, dear. Oh, shocked.

Elderly orphans. What about orphaned elderly people? There we go. How do we know that they're orphaned children yeah that's also true just because they're alone yeah because they're a child they have to be an orphan they wear a sign around their neck it's really disturbing so it includes orphaned children a mischievous man oh god i wish i don't know what that means sounds pervy he sounds like a creep. I do not like that.

And a singing old lady. I love her. Oh, there's always a singing old. That's very close. I am. Yeah. Or I'm really obnoxiously singing things with like a really thick,

like old timey. Yeah. You'll know it's Amanda. And she's like, June is not unusual to be loved by anyone. June, June, June. Very old time Broadway. Like transatlantic.

Get ready to be haunted by me. Old O-Town songs. Yeah o-town songs yeah you're there so people have heard odd voices and noises they which have included children giggling and running up and down the stairs you've been there uh doors doors have opened and closed by themselves. The owner tells, um, when people ask him like something he's gone through, his specific memory is of a little boy in a red shirt, blue pants and brown boots who appeared near the fireplace. And although he was visible,

you could see the details of the fireplace through him. Yeah. Cool. Okay. There is nothing worse than a ghost child in shorts did you just say a ghost child in jorts with like the little sock garters a ghost child in like bloomers?

No. Well, it's funny you say that because it's actually like I changed it to just say blue shorts, but it's actually written as blue knickers. Oh, there you go. It's like you knew. Knicker ghosts. Knicker ghosts. Pantaloons. No thanks.

And pantaloons. Nick Mac Paddywhack. So as we say on our podcast regularly transatlantic way your tagline is knickknack paddywhack it is now as of today although the okay so i said although he you could see the fire through him which is just its own version of hell i think yes yes yes yep um children have been heard singing ring Around the Rosie in the halls. No, they haven't. You're wrong.

If it's not unusual, I don't want anything to do with it. What's new, pussycat? Or Drops of Jupiter. I can't. Honestly, any song by Train is the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like All Star. Yes. I can't. Honestly, any song by Train is the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or like All Star. Yes. Hey, now. Imagine like a little, a troop of orphans coming in their sleep to sing All Star. In their pantaloons. Ghosts of like tweens from the late 90s, early 2000s. What a nightmare. It's going to be way more entertaining than Victorian ghosts. No, I totally agree.

So the owner's daughter has also heard a little girl talk to her. Nope. And while investigating the hospital area, one of the investigators had to sit down after feeling uneasy. But when she stood up, all she remembers is blacking out and feeling an ice cold hand on her head. And then waking up. But what happened to everyone that was around her is that something shoved her head into the wall. Like into the metal beam of the wall.

And then when she got away from the wall wall her eyes were rolled back in her head and they could only see the whites of her eyes and she was sweating and panting profusely. Gross. When are men going to figure out that head pushing is not a movement? That's the moral of the story.

Especially into a metal beam. Keep your fucking hands to yourself while i'm dying i will set the pace so when she when she finally like like she said she blacked out and only felt an ice cold hand on her head but she also remembers the entire time that she was blacking out only being able to hear growls and like coming in and out of consciousness and then blacking out oh good oh my god um people also hear a deep growl coming from the room known as the mischievous man's room no no for a lot of reasons so they uh they went to go check it out when they heard the growls and they felt a heavy oppressive feeling coming over them and heard hissing in their head ew like they heard like hissing between their ears oh no oh okay okay all right okay um in the administrative building uh which was oh that was the one that was

once used as an orphanage right um they had different meters set up all around to try and catch any like electromagnetic activity or any anything that could resemble spiritual activity the only time the golden compass the only time they got anything one night was when they all decided to sing mary had a little lamb and then all the meters fell off the tables. Oh, my God. The kids were like, this is my favorite song. They were like, this does not ring around the rosy bitch. This is not all-star.

This is not all-star. This is not what I signed up for. I'm going to drop you like a fucking Jupiter until you play all-star. I'm going to drop it like it fucking Jupiter until you play the hits. I'm going to drop it like it's hot until you play the hits. The hits. Just play the hits. So in a shed outside that was once used for storage, orphans used to hide there so they could avoid doing chores.

Oh, nice. Me too. Relatable. Wow. And so there are these things in, when you're investigating, called dowsing rods that they're basically like, do you know what those are? Yes. Yeah. Okay.

I do not. Okay, if you keep them in your hand, it's very much like the planchette of a Ouija board where if you're touching it, they can use, like, your energy and move the planchette using, like, your... Oh, okay. Like, that's why, like, you your energy and move the planchette using, like, your... Oh, okay. Like, that's why, like, you need to be touching the planchette on a Ouija board

because they need your energy to help move it along. Right. So a dowsing rod is basically the same thing where you hold these metal rods that are really lightweight, and because your energy is flowing through it, they can move the rods and point in directions for you. Right. So, like, where they cross over... Didn't they used to find water like that? flowing through it they can move the rods and point in directions for you right so like where they cross over didn't they used to find water like that yes yes like uh they used to find like where natural springs were right yeah and they and they cross over if there's like a heavy level

of activity okay yeah um okay so they were using dowsing rods and one of the questions they went into the shed where they used to hide and said, are your friends here? Can you show us where your friends are? And the rods moved in different directions on their own. One pointing behind a, like a box that was left over and one hiding one pointing at a chair as if it was like hiding behind the chair. as if it was hiding behind the chair.

On that note, you guys, it's $60 per ticket for these paranormal investigation parties. Amanda, there's one Friday, June 15th. We're going. In Minneapolis? No, in Liberty, Missouri. Actually, they lift the winery

and bring it to you. They bring it to Minnesota for you to do it in your, Missouri. Actually, they lift the winery and bring it to you. In Minnesota. They bring it to Minnesota for you to do it in your own backyard. For only $60. For only $60. They ship the whole thing over. Their business model seems shady at best, but I'll just go with it.

It's our preferred business model, actually. You can also use the rods as a yes or no game. So if you want them to cross over, it'll say yes. If you don't want them to separate them, it means no. And so one of the investigators asked if they thought the girl in the room, like one of the girls that was an investigator, they asked, do you think she's pretty?

And it said yes. Which, thank God, because kids are brutally honest. What if it was like, no. Yeah. What? Yeah. Meh. She's bad.

She's bad. Seven out of ten maybe on a good day. Spelling of M-E-H. It's spelled out on a Ouija board. The girl's like, okay, stop. I get it. I get it.

I get it. It's spelled meh-velous. When it was time to say goodbye, that same woman said she felt the experience of being hugged, but below her waist like a child was trying to hug her. Oh, God. Or a man on his knees. Or a man on his knees.

Oh, an orphaned elderly man. The mischievous man. So the most common thing are voices, laughing, and singing. However, some people have also seen shadows, apparitions, and figures of, like, black figures, like solid black figures of men peeking around corners and staring at them. Yeah. Oh, my God. What is with men being creeps?

Even after death. Can't you just fuck off and leave us alone? Creeps. Yeah, for real. Fucking post-mortem Me Too. God after death. Can't you just fuck off and leave us alone? Creeps. Yeah, for a... Fucking post-mortem Me Too. God damn it. Yeah.

Could we fucking not? So, the woman who experienced the hug, they also, people have reported felt, feeling,

grabbing on their shoulders or their pants legs being tugged. And there used to be a morgue in the nursing home and people have felt uh being pushed touched and seeing dark shadows and hearing like whispers into their ear um people have also heard whistling right in their ear and hey like you amanda yeah

and this is hitting too close this This is actually your story. The story of Amanda. Good God. And then they've also caught on recordings children yelling at each other. Oh. So like the woman who experienced the hug, others have felt being grabbed by their shoulders

or their pant legs being pet. Oh God. There is also a morgue in the nursing home and people have felt being pushed, shoved, touched and seeing dark shadows and hearing voices. Jesus. Yeah. Nope. Nope.

People have also heard whistling, which is something that you've also experienced. Yes. Yes. And on recordings, they've heard children you've also experienced. On recordings, they've heard children yelling at each other. Of course. I don't know what they're saying,

but I bet it's juicy. Children gossip is always the hot topic. You've been using my Xbox. Oh. Who stole my awesome CD? Also, down the hallways, when you're in the building, you can hear a piano being played, but you can never find the piano. Oh, I don't like that.

It sounds like a cruel game. It's someone trying to teach themselves all sorts of things. Drops of juice. Meet Virginia. Meet Virginia. Meet Virginia. Over and over and over again. For eternity. I'd kill myself.

People have heard a glass smashed on the ground and shatter in the room with them. Like they felt the thud on the floor or something hit the ground. But there was no glass to be found. And other people have also heard glass shattering from rooms down the hall i can't wait for this paranormal tour with amanda in june it's happening uh they also have used um emf detectors so it's like it reads electromagnetic waves and starts at a green light for a base read and goes all the way up to red based on how intense the activity is near it and so they placed all these emf detectors like one by one down the hallway

in like probably like five or six feet apart from each other and when they were asking if anyone was there each one went off all the way to red one by one as if someone was running down the hall. Oh, that is good. That is good. Yuck. Which is one of the things that I experienced a lot when I was doing my investigations. We would put EMF detectors all around the room, and we were talking to two children in one of the houses that we went to a lot, and we would ask for them to try and hit every single one of the EMf readers and you would see

them go off one by one like they were running around in a circle around oh my god how asking for a friend how much is an emf to take 60 60 as much as the tour as much as the tour 60 we're getting them we're buying them company card yeah And usually you can bring those things on tours. You can bring those things on tours with you. So if you buy it ahead of time, you can use it. Definitely a work-related expense. Em, how long were you a paranormal investigator for? What were you a paranormal investigator for?

I was with a group in Yorktown, Virginia. And it was by a group. I mean, it was me and one other guy that went from place to place. But we also would work with different teams throughout colonial Virginia. So like Williamsburg, Jamestown, because they're the oldest places in the country.

So they're... Were you ever just like enough with the Civil War? It's not Civil War. Yeah, I grew up with the Civil War because I also grew up in fredericksburg which was like a huge part of the civil war so yeah every history class growing up we just we learned i know too much about the civil war so yeah um but uh la la la la oh all right two last things so people have seen a child's apparition in the lady's room walking into the bathroom.

What a perv. Seriously. And they've also seen a lady walking across a doorway in the library, like through the doorway, and singing to herself or humming to herself, which is extra crazy. In my book. which is extra crazy. Also occurred in my book. And then also, the last thing I'm going to say is there's my favorite piece of equipment

for investigations. It's called the spirit box. Done. Sold. It runs through radio waves at a really fast rate because the theory is that if ghosts are talking to us,

they're just on another frequency. They're on another wave that we can't hear. So if you run a bunch of radio waves really quickly, you can hear them talking through the radio waves at a frequency we can hear. Like the Beatles recording backwards or whatever? Yes, exactly that. And so they use a spirit box one time and they ask, is it okay that we're here with you? And they got through the radio waves. They heard someone say, yes, that's fine.

What if your ghost spoke a different language? That would suck. It would be like levels. That would suck for them. They'd be be like I'm just trying to tell you something and no one's listening I'd like to think once you die if you become a spirit you just inherently know all languages that's a good

way to look at it I mean like I don't think it's true but I would hope that that's like a secret power you get that's my preferred super power especially if you're part of the order or whatever it's called. Yes. The order of Godfellows. The order of UFTA.

The order of UFTA. UFTA. UFTA. Do you guys know what UFTA is? No. You probably don't know what UFTA is. Okay. So UFTA is like a Scandinavian phrase that has become part of Minnesotan culture because

there were so many Scandinavian immigrants, including like all of ournesotan culture because there were so many Scandinavian immigrants including like it's like an interjection it's not a word it's like wolf it means it's like yeah no it's like it's like you know with like Jewish like it's it's it's that but it's oof da oof da got it i really like it and i think i might adopt it yeah you're gonna start listening to our episodes and hear oof da a lot yes i love it i would be so honored thrills me to know look multicultural learning is what happens on this podcast well anyway guys i mean i don't know if you heard our episode where i did a german accent

christine but i mean if i did i might have blacked it out it was she was so offended she just blocked the whole thing out it was rough it wasn't great well that's what i'm gonna spend the rest of my sunday looking for i try to avoid that was i try to avoid doing stories with crazy names unless it's from Germany, because at least I know Christine will handle it. Otherwise, it's a shit show. Otherwise, people are like, that's not how you say it in Swedish. And I'm like, well, how the fuck am I supposed to know?

We only pick stories with crazy names. I'm sorry. I don't have a PhD in Swedish. Ufta. Is that right? Ufta. Ufta a PhD in Swedish Ufta Ufta Alright guys I have a murder story Fuck yes Okay so it's wine adjacent Oh my god

So I'll take it Sangria? It's really hard to find Yes No I did see one about a barber who was like an alcoholic and i was like i'll do that in a future episode but this one is rich the story of richard and nancy lion who they were a couple in connecticut who you can probably picture as being the classic Connecticut upper class family. They met at Harvard and she was from,

so Nancy was from a, like an upper class family that lived in the wealthiest neighborhood in Texas. And he came from kind of like a middle class family. So they kind of already had like a, an imbalance in their classes okay which yep yep only matters because he took it personally uh but of course of course so to everyone who knew them so they got married everyone who knew them was like they have the perfect marriage they both have ivy league degrees they're like beautiful people they have two daughters it's meant to be it's meant to be um but richard never

felt like he fit in with the with nancy's kind of like elite social family uh and her friend group and they had moved back to texas to like this really rich town that she's from. And so he always felt kind of like out of place. Uh, and her career better yet was taking off and he was not progressing in his career as quickly as she was, which obviously is my last relationship. Handle your shit. Yeah,

exactly. Amanda's like relating to this. Oh boy. Yeah. shit yeah exactly amanda's like relating to this real oh boy yeah so she was working at a freaking law firm it was called trammel crow and she was getting all these promotions um but he was like he was working a job but it was stagnant and he didn't he wasn't getting promoted like he wanted to and wasn't making as much money as her. So he started getting jealous and frustrated. And then he dumped her. Told her he didn't love her for half of their relationship. What's that?

Wait. Made her put down his dog. Demanded half of the security deposit. Oh my god. Be nice to Richard. He did the obvious natural thing, which is that he found a co-worker, a young co-worker named Tammy,

and decided to sleep with her. I hate her! Okay. Here we go. It's an episode of Maury all of a sudden. An episode of Maury, yeah. You're triggering Amanda.

Oh no. Amanda, have another there now. Oh, no. Amanda, have another drink real quick before we continue. He was barely dry on our separation, Richard. Let's just call him Dan. You know, the nickname. Yeah. Can his name just be Dan? Just kidding.

Let's not. I mean, to be honest, like, Richard, isn't the nickname for Richard Dick anyway? So we can just use that as... Dick, Dick, Dick. Nailed it, guys. Nailed it. So Dick fell into the loving arms of his co-worker

Tammy. So this Dick and Tammy were in love. And they turned their one-night stand into a full on affair. And when Nancy learned about the affair, obviously all hell broke loose. And instead of kind of coming back to her, Richard was like, all right, I'm dating Tammy now. And just peaced out the day after Christmas. Merry Christmas.

Yeah, literally left. So the neighbor wrote like this full expose on like how she witnessed this whole progression and she's like and they shared a duplex together and

she's like, yeah, the day after Christmas, the tree was on the curb already and like he was packing a dummy bag and just like got left two days before Valentine's

Day and the week of your four year anniversary. Isn't that crazy? How like, how parallel. But also, like, this is how you earn money as a neighbor is by creeping on your neighbors and like selling that shit to any news outlet. Like, God bless that neighbor. It was pretty incredible because she was like, yeah, I didn't really know them very well.

And then like wrote this fucking 10 page article. And probably got paid 10 grand. I don't know much about them, but here's everything. She does what she needs to do. But I watch through their windows every afternoon. That's me as a neighbor. I don't know any of my neighbors, but I know about them. You go through their trash.

For sure. My neighbors, my mom went through a divorce a couple years ago and so we were friends with our neighbors we've grown up on the same block since i was three and but i still tell myself that as neighbors they don't know too much about what's going on like it's a very surface relationship or so we try to keep it yeah and yeah but when she was going through the divorce anytime a car that wasn't our car showed up at the driveway there would be like eight people knocking on our door being like who's in your house what's going on oh my god like all of a sudden we realized all of a sudden we

realized how often they're looking at our house and are aware of what's going on keeping track yeah of your movements yeah man jesus it's. It's fucked up. Well, okay. So, basically, Nancy did not take it well for obvious reasons. She actually ended up dyeing her hair the same shade of blonde as Tammy.

Oh, not the best coping. I know. She had a rough... No. She was trying to... She had a rough time. They had two little daughters, by the way. So they were just... She just, like, She had a rough time. They had two little daughters, by the way.

So they were just, she just like really had a hard time. And one day, soon after her husband moved out, Nancy opened the front door to find a bottle of wine left as a gift on her doorstep. Nice. How sweet. Someone feeling bad for her. Or she's getting poisoned. Someone, a neighbor was keeping track of the cars and dropped off a bottle of wine. Looks like you need this, you little tramp.

So Nancy was like, oh, I don't know who it's from, but I'm gonna drink it. She became temporarily but violently ill, spent the night vomiting on the bathroom floor. It was some of that wine brick.

It was some of that wine brick. It was concentrated grapes and grape bricks. And she, so soon after that, weirdly enough, the house became infested with fire ants, which becomes relevant, I promise. But even if it's not relevant, it's pretty up uh so richard started coming back to the house to help manage the infestation because she needed his help to do so uh he helped her poison the ants and then they started having sex again because she was i know she was undecided about what she wanted to do he kind of started staying the night again

and she was like i don't know if I want to take you back, blah, blah, blah. Don't dick the dick. Don't take the dick back. Never good the second time around. Don't do it. Never good. So she started getting really sick,

and she didn't know if it was stress or what, but eventually she wrote this letter to Richard saying, enough is enough. I'm done with the marriage. And then she filed for divorce in September of 1990. Good girl. Yeah. So she, apparently that, like, really boosted her morale and she, like, gained some weight back

because she had lost a lot of weight and, like, kind of returned to her normal self. And then this neighbor that I was telling you about, of course her name's Gail. Nosey ass Gail. The nosey bitch. uh and then this neighbor that i was telling you about of course her name's gail uh gail typical gail was at home one night and heard a knock on the door and when her husband went to answer they found richard holding a baby monitor and uh he basically said like can you watch the girls because nancy's been vomiting for hours. I need to take her to the ER. So they were obviously like, OK, we'll, you know, take look over, watch over the girls for the night.

And then they heard Richard go back through the baby monitor and like go get Nancy. And all they heard was him say, I'm warming up the car and then carried her downstairs into the car and then uh when they got to the hospital she they basically richard was like oh she has severe pain she's been throwing up and has a severe headache but the doctors were like we don't know what the fuck is going on so they diagnosed her with toxic shock syndrome, which I think is like tampon disease. What do you get from tampons? Yeah. Tampon disease. And she had had like a, like her OBGYN had given her some medication recently.

So they were like, maybe that's what it is. So that's what they diagnosed her with. But it didn't really fit her symptoms. And then this doctor who becomes like basically a hero in this story. His name is Dr ollie bagheri and he was her doctor and when richard left her husband richard left the hospital uh he lifted nancy's oxygen mask so that she could speak and she whispered to him that she had become violently ill after drinking foul tasting wine that had been anonymously left on

her front porch. To which she was probably like, why did you drink strange wine left at your door? I would've drank it. Do not victim blame the wine receiving individuals in this story. Because I have received wine from people

and who the fuck poisons you? That's just fucking evil. Sorry. Amanda gets wine from random wine and crime fans like every fucking week and we appreciate it. And we're so lush. And she drinks all of it.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So she mentioned that and then she also told the doctor that Richard had once, they went to the movies at one point after they had separated and he bought her a soda and she noticed a white powdery film on top of the soda and no said it tasted awful and then apparently he got really pissed off when she said she didn't want to drink it and was like no you have to drink it because i

paid for it even though i had this nasty film on it oh he's a head pusher yep we all know it he's a head pusher richard you dick yep you fucking piece of shit classic dick so he also uh gave her a lot of vitamins according to the housekeeper uh they were large pills that he claimed were vitamins that he forced her to take uh and then she also told the doctor that she was afraid of her husband and then he said i remember the words she said to me last it was really sad she said please help me help me don't let me die oh my god and very dark and then within 24, she was in a coma, unresponsive. And Richard produced this document that basically said, like, do not resuscitate me.

Oh, no. Oh, my God. It was, like, written in her, quote, unquote, handwriting. Oh, my God. And they were like, we don't know about this. Fucking Helvetica knew. Yeah, exactly. Her literal dying words were essentially,

my husband has poisoned me. And they're like, well, he produced this document. Yeah, so. I mean, it's in Comic Sans. It looks pretty friendly. Papyrus. So the doctor, so she was in a coma. And then a couple days later, she passed away. Unfortunately, she did not survive

and her doctors were like we need to make a thorough autopsy because this guy Dr. Bakiri was like something fishy is going on and so they also called the police and got them involved and then they so then things took a turn talk about M. Night Shyamalan

investigators learned that she was also about to testify against her former boss from the law firm I mentioned because he had been like embezzling money big time and they found a letter from her boss in her possessions that said stay out of the Bagwell case

or you and your family will face the wrath of God. Oh shit. You do not want to fuck with God. Grapes of wrath. Grapes of wrath of God. Oh, shit. You do not want to fuck with God. Grapes of wrath. Grapes of wrath of God. Oh, my God. Wrath of dick. The wrath of dick. I hate all of this so much.

Oh, my God. That could be a porno. That could be. That's probably a porno. I'm writing it right now, so stay tuned. Yeah, yeah, write that down. She's writing the script for the wrath of dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The. She's writing the script for the wrath of Dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The grapes of wrath of Dick. The grapes of wrath of Dick. I'm into it. So they went back to the autopsy. They didn't find any, like, illness or disease in her organs. Like, she wasn't sick. But the toxicology report found that her body contained a hundred times the lethal amount of arsenic.

Well, there it is. How much? So there it is. So, her death was ruled a homicide, obviously. All they wanted was... I got you.

Arsenic and lace. Did I miss the joke? It's a flick and lace. Oh, I don't know that play Arsenic and Lace. Did I miss the joke? It's a play. Old Lace. Oh, I don't know that play. It's a play. Oh, okay. It's a good one. I'm not very cultured about plays.

I'm so cultured, guys. I am so cultured. Between ghosts and milkshakes and plays, I have got it covered. This is why we're dating. I'm sorry to have it trivianate. This is why we're dating. have a trivia night. This is why we're dating.

We'll go see arsenic and we'll do this together. Oh, it'll be great. Okay. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Where are we? Oh, so they found this receipt in her belongings for arsenic.

So apparently she had bought arsenic herself to kill a colony of fire ants that had been infesting her home. Damn. Remember the ants? Who could forget? Who could forget the ants? So, there was also

one thought that she was maybe making this is fucked up. She was maybe making herself sick on purpose to get her husband's attention. Oh, my God. Oh, fucking patriarchy. And I watched the Forensic Files episode on this. And the homicide detectives were like, no, they literally said that is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

And we're like, fuck that. But that was the defense being like, oh, maybe that's why she did it. So fucked up and then you guys another twist detectives found her diary and guess what turns out she and her older brother bill had apparently had an incestuous relationship when they were children just when i thought this story couldn't get better cue incest she basically wrote in her diary like she was afraid of him and his like sick sex tendencies and was worried that he would target her daughters oh my god baby and well it was so fucked up yeah right and so i mean it was abuse i'm trying to find where is it baby oh and so

according to richard on memorial day in 1989 so he like explained this journal entry and was like oh we actually visited a detox center and nancy had arranged to see a sex therapist where she confided in richard why she was having such sexual intimacy problems. Um, and it turns out that she and her brother had had an incestuous relationship and Richard was so shocked and disturbed by this that he refused to have sex with her for many months. Uh, and so then investigators were like, well,

maybe bill the brother has something to do with this. But her whole family was saying like, no, this is a lie. It's not true. Like this is all, you know, made up, whatever, whatever. So there were just like a lot of possible angles to look at this. And they were all very extremely horrible.

Yes. Oh, okay. But they immediately ruled out suicide. They were like, arsenic is not a good, like, nobody kills themselves by like slow arsenic death. It's not how you want to die you wanna die no yeah that's not a thing uh no and a lot of people that's what the defense was saying like well maybe she did it on purpose and it was like okay sure thing no burning yourself alive would be better preferable wine yeah exactly exactly um and actually i found a fun fact out about arsenic i don't know if you guys know this

but when you ingest it it attaches itself to your hair follicles and so as your hair grows you can kind of like they can track how long you've been consuming arsenic based on like how far into your hair it's like counting the rings in a tree the rings of arsenic in your hair. Yep, exactly. And it's like a permanent record. It feels like it's going to be its own arsenic hair. I'm adding it to the list. It's so interesting. It's so interesting, guys.

What is it? Oofta. Oofta. That calls for an oofta. That's for sure. That's a ring, ring, ring. Oofta. oofta. That for sure. That's a ring, ring, ring. Who could do that? Oofta. Oofta.

Oh my God, I love it so much. I love it so much. It really, it's so fucked up. So they like went and looked through her hair and they basically cut it into two week periods, her like hair. And then we're able to like find the time that she started taking arsenic which was four

months before her death and then four weeks before her death the dose increased significantly which is when richard started living at home again i see so So very, very interesting. So the diary entries that I mentioned about the brother, they sent the handwriting to a forensic document examiner whose name was obviously Hartford Kittle. Why wouldn't it be? You know, as it would be. Oh, my God. And he decided to look through.

So they were like, tell us if this is a legitimate diary entry. Turns out Nancy's handwriting is extremely similar to Richard's handwriting in her diary. Weird. Weird. Yep. And her friends were like, well, I don't know. She used to write. This is, of course, classic.

Classic dick. She used to write his research papers when they were at Harvard together. So she learned to write his research papers when they were at harvard together so she learned to copy his handwriting so oh man that was the argument used like oh no they just have really similar handwriting because she did all his homework at harvard because he's been a dick since college yep yep damn honestly charge him on that alone patriarchy get the fuck out of here that's the real offense the i mean this is a whole other offense, in my opinion. Yes. What a fucking douchebag.

God damn it. He was, like, obviously having issues that, you know, his wife had to do his homework and et cetera, et cetera. Yep. So when they looked at their handwriting, they were like, oh, he used the ampersand and she or no, sorry, she is the ampersand and he would write out the word and and they wrote their fucking capital eyes differently. So she would put like lines on the top and bottom and he didn't. So they were like, so the handwriting expert named Hartford, he concluded that Richard

had written the diary entries about nancy's brother bill being like having incestuous relationship with her so shocker i know so it was all fucking made up by this dude by her fucking husband even though it like tore her family apart was so fucked up fucking perv so yeah so they were like oh my, he created this whole diary to cover up the murder. But he, Richard himself took the stand for his own defense, as you know, all innocent people do.

They always think that's a good idea, and it's not a good idea. They do! It never fucking works. I don't understand. I feel like this happens in way too often. It's like a social class. I feel like it's like they're narcissistic, and they're like, oh, I can't understand. I feel like this happens in way too often. It's like dissociopaths. I feel like it's like they're narcissistic and they're like, oh, I can do it. Yeah. It's a total Ted Bundy move.

Yes, exactly. So he produced this receipt from a Dallas chemical company that showed that Nancy had signed for a delivery of arsenic for her fire ant infestation. And they're like, oh, maybe she did take her own life and apparently they interviewed the jury after he produced that evidence and after he had represented himself and the jury was actually favorably on his side and they were like you know what like it doesn't seem like he did it but then talk about another this is the third m night shamlon twist no yes so the fucking handwriting expert dude

showed up and he was like you know what we went to this uh chemical company and they were like someone copy and pasted this order onto a receipt and faked the signature no and actually it turns out richard had bought the arsenic and had it shipped to his house. I mean, I'm sorry, to his office and had the receptionist sign for it. And she didn't buy arsenic at all. And that was like the big turning point because they were like, well, she bought the arsenic herself. Like she knew it was in the house. But actually, he fucking created a fake receipt to be like, oh, she bought it. But like he had had it ordered to his own house and started

putting it in her fucking vitamins oh boy that fucking asshole what an asshole and then like in a bottle of wine like that's just cruel and unusual like he knew she'd take the bait yeah that's like that's like the meanest cruelest thing it's like you can't blame anyone but this asshole for that um and so nancy so okay so they confiscated all the pills like the quote-unquote vitamins and um it turns out they some of them had barium carbonate which was sort of which is a chemical that's used in the production of glass it's so good so that's what he was feeding his wife uh and so since so the motive that they used was that money. So like he would get a $500,000 life insurance policy if she died, obviously.

And then, you know, be able to run off with Tammy. And so he was basically, hold on, I'm going to put it by money. Did you hear that, guys? That was the most important fact of this whole story. I hope you heard it. Oh, my God. Beep, boop, bop, beep, boop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. My lovely noises.

So they trace... Okay, so they trace the shit back all the way. The barium carbonate, which is like the glass ingredient. They traced it all the way back to the bottle of wine left on her doorstep. And they found out that when that didn't kill her, so he gave her that bottle intending to kill her with that bottle of wine. And when that didn't kill her, he decided to switch to arsenic and had the arsenic mailed to his office and started putting small doses of that in her food and pills until she got sick enough that she went into a coma and died uh and so like as i said when she when he started living with her again the arsenic levels in her body like dramatically increased

because he just started putting it in everything um and since he would get the life insurance money and be able to live with Terry, it just made sense that he was obviously the culprit. Um, and when they, the jury deliberated, it took them less than three hours. They convicted him of first degree murder and he was sentenced to life in prison. He's still there, even though there is a website called like Richard Lyon didn't do it oh my god by richard lion's family fuck all y'all and i read it and i was like this is not none of this is because i was like okay i'll read it none of it was even like remotely of our time

it was like he's applied to every like appeal you know those like new podcasts and stuff like he's applied to every single one that could potentially free him and none of them have responded and i'm like that's because he's guilty god yeah yep yep we covered a case early on in our Genesis and it was the case of a deer fucker named Brian Hathaway from Wisconsin and there's a website. He fucks is a man who fucks deer. There's not much more

backstory. Oh my god. What the fuck? I did not hear that episode. I would remember that. It was our first episode ever. It was the next episode. Oh yeah. I think I purposefully didn't listen to that episode. I don't know if I can do it.

Clearly. Of course, yeah. So, anyway, there's a website called FreeBrianHathaway.com Shut the fuck up. What is wrong with people? I can't answer that question. He has two. shut the fuck up what is wrong with people I can't answer that question

he has two I guess everybody can find a fan here or there it'll take like 10 more crossover episodes for us to figure out what the fuck is wrong with people so it's not worth it alright this is step one we'll meet again next week

next year when we get our schedules to sync up every year for 10 years we'll do this This is step one. We'll meet again next week and work on the next installment. Every year for 10 years, we'll do this. 1,000%. Every year for 10 years. And then maybe we'll come to it. We'll probably never come to a solution, to be honest. No. Good.

Excellent. Well, thank you guys for joining us. We're all going to be at CrimeCon, by the way, everybody. Yes, we'll actually get to meet each other. We're going to hang out at the Valentine on the way everybody yes we'll actually get to meet each other and guess what we're also having meetups across the street from one another which is something i realized i love it i know one of our mods like set up a meetup on broadway in nashville and then i googled google map to where your guys's was and it's literally like.01 miles away. I was like, holy shit.

We'll just do pub crawls to both of our places. We'll just go back and forth. So there's that. You can leave from your building and we'll leave from our building and we'll like a newsies kind of thing. Kind of just get closer and closer. And then we have to do a West Side Story

in the street, snap off. Yes. Well, obviously do a West Side Story in the street snap off. Yes. Well, obviously. Which one of us are the Jets? Obviously. Alright, we're Sharks. Sorry, you're Jets. Sorry, you're Jets. It's too late. We chose for you. Bye.

Bye. I'm sorry. Well, thank you guys for coming on. It means a lot that we were able to finally get this all together. I'm so pumped for this episode. And you guys, go check out our other... We were on their show, which was a fucking blast. Check out Wine and Crime.

You guys are on every platform. And are a whole lot of fun. And they cover things like horse fuckers or whatever. And only that actually. It's just about that. We're not here to judge. We're just here to report and also judge. Yes.

They are very impartial. They have no opinions on anything. Especially the patriarchy. Yeah. Well, luckily we're going to be meeting that means we'll be meeting you in like three weeks. Oh my God. I'm so excited.

Less than a month. So excited. All right. Well, thank you so much for having us. We love you. Thank you guys. This, we love you more. This was so much fun.

And that's why we drink. Oh yeah. And that's why we drink. Until we meet again. Okay. Bye. okay bye bye hey true crime fans have you listened to wine and crime yet we're a true crime comedy podcast

hosted by three childhood friends who chug wine chat true crime and unleash our worst Minnesotan accents. Each week, us gals pick a true crime topic and pair it with a delicious wine before delving into the background and psychology behind the crime. Then we share and speculate wildly about a couple of bonkers cases related to the topic. Past episodes include necrophilia, cults, crimes of passion, cruise ship disappearances, exorcisms gone wrong, all this over a bottle of wine or let's be real three. Listen anywhere you

get your podcasts. You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at Wine and Crime Pod and check out our website and blog at WineAndCrimePodcast.com. Cheers!