And That's Why We Drink - E106 The Worst Toy Story and an Empty Wine Stockpile

Episode Date: February 10, 2019

Do you see shadow people? Is there a ghost texting you? Does a witch crawl up your face and grab your teeth while you're in bed? Then you just might have sleep paralysis! Buckle up because today Em takes us through some truly horrifying stories of real life sleep paralysis. Meanwhile Christine brings us the extremely fucked up tale of the Postcard Killer, John Frank Hickey. And we reminisce about the past two years on our official podcast birthday! And that's why we drink! Please consider supporting the companies that support us!  Get a free stock when you sign up with Robin Hood! Go to drink.robinhood.com Get $80 off your first month of Hello Fresh by going to hellofresh.com/drink80 and enter code DRINK80 Go to warbyparker.com/drink to order your free home try on and find your new favorite glasses today! Get a special offer from Stamps.com that includes a 4-week trial, free postage and a digital scale! Go to stamps.com, click on the microphone and enter code DRINK

this is the fastest we've ever actually set up our audio equipment ever i'm convinced we're missing something i think something's wrong because usually i mean guys in case you're wondering this is usually the setup of how things go for us let's say i'm we're gonna start recording at five yeah i get there at 5 30 um step one then uh we hang out and talk for about an hour while we're also waiting for postmates to get there yeah christine can't decide what to drink then 6 30 to 7 rolls around and then we're like i guess we should go upstairs the sun is down maybe we should do something productive and then we come upstairs and then we continue to bitch for about bitch about anything i mean i'm saying bitch very very freely what that's what we mean when we say talk

or right just talk in our vernacular yes yes so we talk quote slash bitch right um when eva's here it's even worse because then there's three people then there's three opinions so it takes she's not about to tell us what to do because she's too nice for that so we just rope her into our bitch session so by 7 30 we're finally setting up the equipment and going doing our ads and then She's about to tell us what to do because she's too nice for that. So we just rope her into our bitch session. So by 7.30, we're finally setting up the equipment and doing our ads. And then something goes wrong. And then something goes wrong. So basically it takes two and a half hours to get everything ready.

This time we were supposed to meet at 4.45. I got here at 4.30. So I was 15 minutes early. Something's, Mercury's in retrograde. Something's happening. And then within five minutes of seeing seeing you everything's set up and we're recording like it's it just it's five o'clock right now our notes are ready the printer worked on the first try that's the other thing it usually takes approximately 40 minutes for me to get this printer here's the thing that we talk slash bitch about all the time and by us i mean christine she hates our printer so it doesn't work no i always i always hear her

every time i come here we gotta get a new printer we gotta get a new printer i know but it's i can't bring myself because it's because it functions yeah it like just not actually works and i bought so much ink for it that i'm like we might as well use the ink up before i just like toss it to the curb speaking of um failing i uh just realized my laptop is actually on its last limb. I literally just bookmarked new MacBook because my fucking computer is dying. Yes. I literally just bookmarked. Was that today?

Last night. We are always in sync. I love it. Oh, my God. My computer is doing that thing now. It's terrifying because we're about to do one, two, three, four, five, six, seven shows in a row and then have about a 48 hour break and then do like five more shows. So I'm doing all the notes right now. And I was halfway through my notes last night.

And all of a sudden I got this pop up that said pages unexpectedly quit. Oh, that's the worst. And I was like, oh boy. And it's been doing that like every day now. And we're about to go on tour. Like we better hope my computer works. At first I was like, I don't, it's like the same with the printer i was like well you know it works i don't want to spend the money on a new one and then i looked i was like what year did i buy this and it was 2013

so i'm like okay officially six years old i feel like maybe now in the apple world right like ease my conscience a little bit i think my laptop was a present for getting into grad school oh okay so our graduating college and it was like this is your adult laptop which is like sounds super bougie but i had another laptop that i had used for several years before that yeah and it was like definitely on its last leg then and so this was like your congratulations you're in the world so i guess that means i'm on my fifth year with this laptop now so i do need something but can you imagine we use my computer during the live shows the live shows what if all of a sudden it's like keynote unexpectedly quit in the middle of the show and then everyone's weird bullshit comes

up on the screen everyone sees my like weird background desktop and like all the weird icons folders that you keep and by the way of christine so beautiful i have a bunch of folders that all say tax stuff for tom because they're all different presents that i'm working on but if anyone were to look at my computer i don't want them to see their name on it that's what you want to hide so i've like i have like 10 different folders that say tax stuff for people do that for porn not for gifts but i guess that's okay i'm honestly i'm just a saint i think that's what i just learned nobody's surprised by that um why do you drink this since we are on a ranting roll a ranting bitch sesh yeah i mean we never we didn't bitch before while we were setting up equipment today

so now we're doing it well i was going to tell you guys last week and i forgot that i've been working on lucid dreaming like regularly and i'm really trying to get better at it and um i have been doing this like daily thing and i've been doing it's a whole thing i don't know who knows what it's basically when you become conscious in your dream and then you can control your dream world and it's very cool right um so i had one three days into my life what happened okay so i was at a party in my at my childhood home and I suddenly realized like, this isn't realistic because I don't live here anymore. And so I was like, holy shit, I'm in a dream.

And I was like, don't panic. And you're supposed to stare at your hand to like, you've said that before. Like you have to stare at your hand to like, to ground yourself in like weird. Okay. Cause you'll wake yourself up. Cause it's something you at least know is real. Like my hand should be right. So you just like stare at it or count your fingers.

Unless you like don't have both your hands. Yeah. I don't know. Who knows? Just covering your faces. Can you imagine if all of a sudden you have sleep paralysis and both your hands are there and you're like, ah, this is definitely not right. Oh, um, and then George Lopez talks in the background.

Oh yeah. Lord, that is a nightmare. Um, yeah. And so then it wasn't very exciting but i went to a shopping mall and i flew around which was really cool wow and um the only other time i've had a lucid dream i was flying too which is so cool and i flew around and i remember thinking like i was going through the hallways and i saw just hundreds of people walking around i remember thinking in my dream like my subconscious is creating like hundreds of faces right now that i'm looking at

like it's all isn't that cool that you have the awareness of what was happening as it was happening? It's like inception. It's trippy. You're like complimenting your brain as it's happening. I was amazed. Like brain, you're so creative and the brain's like, yeah, I know, right? It's like watch this. Boom, another person.

But so there was one guy and I walked up to him. Well, I flew up to him, but same diff. I flew up to him and I was looking at his face and I was like, oh my God, like you could see the hairs on his face, like his pores and everything. And I was like, and it wasn't someone I knew from real life. And I was just amazed anyway. So then I flew around a little bit and then I flew too high and my back hit the ceiling of the shopping mall and then I woke up.

But then I was like, oh my God, what if I'm not really awake? It turns out I had a false awakening and I was still dreaming. Shut the fuck up. But then I was in bed and I was still dreaming shut the fuck up but then i was in bed and i was like well i don't know how to get up without like i psyched myself out and i was like how do i like go explore so did you technically have sleep paralysis um no because i was you're able to get yourself out of it yeah because yeah yeah yeah exactly and then i woke up in my real life and i was very sad but it was cool and i'm still doing it and i'm gonna report back if anything

else cool happens very cool i feel like if i were to try to lucid dream I tried for a while in high school and I think I got kind of successful at it because I actually very when you said um I flew too high on my back at the ceiling I like almost had a flashback to a time where that's happened to me yeah so I know what you're I know that feeling that you're talking about so cool but I feel like if i had a false awakening and realized i wasn't awake my brain would immediately devolve into sleep paralysis it's like oh this is the perfect environment for this so let's just give it a world why not yeah terrifying on my end because i don't think i would have the control that you do but

is there anything do you get to select where you go yet like Like have you, did you decide mall and then it happened? No, that just kind of happened. Okay. So I haven't, I don't have like a big, good grasp on it yet. But it was cool. Like I could fly, which sometimes is hard for people. Sure. Mostly it is.

It's hard for some people, not for me. But yeah, so it was cool. I don't know. I like don't want to be on here and just like talking about my dreams. That's so boring, but it was a very cool experience. And you guys should look into lucid dreaming if you want. And I'm on the subreddit. It's fascinating.

Very, very cool. Why do you drink? I drink because we're about to go on tour. And I feel, first of all, the stress of that because this is the biggest leg we've ever done. And even though we do have a little bit of a brief homecoming in between, it really is like a two week long trip. So it's not so much that I mean, it's definitely there's a portion of it where I'm stressed because I am going to be on a stage for many, many nights in a row. Yeah. But in my personal life, I'm stressed once I'm going to miss Allison. But two, I also

am trying to get all these little things for the apartment done before I leave, because I'm going to miss Allison, but two, I also am trying to get all these little things for the apartment done before I leave because otherwise it's just going to not get done. And not that they wouldn't do it, but RJ and Allison have learned that I'm a control freak. And so they have learned that if I have my mindset on something to probably just not, quote, do me a favor and take care of it. Yes, because once I have tunnel vision, it's like you did it wrong, probably just for the best that you stay out of my like out of my field of vision but today it was as much as i i'm aware that i'm a crazy person when it comes to like trying to make everything a certain way and i warned them and i was like just so you know like when we move in together i have like a vision for how i want this to look and i i'm aware that I'm going to sound like a nutcase sometimes. And, uh, but they've been very respectful and I've even told them when I know I'm losing it,

I'm like, I know I'm losing it. It's not you. It's just how my brain is working. And I need to get through my own problem. Like there's clearly some reason why I'm acting this way, but I've, we've finally gotten to a point where most of the place is done. And this morning, RJ andison came up to me and they were like this place really feels like a home you did a really good job so i don't know if they were appeasing my ego or if they meant it but it it felt really good so that's really sweet but there's still a couple things on the to-do list before we head out and i'm just kind of pressed for time well i haven't even gotten to vacuum the goddamn confetti there's

still confetti here because i don't want to break my expensive dyson and you keep telling me you're gonna bring a broom i know and then i drop the ball i drop the ball i drop the broom oh and a giovanni appears this place hi geo um yeah well that's yeah i'm in a similar road of like trying to get shit done trying to figure out where geo is going to be yeah all the way i have no freaking clue oh my gosh i can't imagine having another life to take care of just gonna be a plate because blaze's work schedule comes in it's all wonky i have to figure out who's gonna be home at what hour and right coordinate like alexander comes home at lunch and take you oh my god never mind i'm not that stressed no no but it's like a similar thing of like we're running out of time and you gotta yeah and it's we i i really i know we knew we were gonna be traveling

a lot and that's not although we're not grateful it's just i when we quit our jobs and felt like oh we're gonna have all this free time it's like well no we're gonna be on the road and we have no we still have no free time so i'm still trying to like buy milk before i leave it makes me like extra sad when people are like oh my god this cool event is happening that same day that you're in town and i'm like we're driving six hours that day to get there hopefully on time we don't have time to explore i know i feel bad because a lot of people have suggested their favorite parts of their hometown so we're going to be visiting it's like it's like we trust us we want to be there like lemp brewery we're like right that would be a dream to go but i don't think we have time

so yeah so we have a lot going on we are so excited to see you guys we just announced charlotte when does this even come out february 10th this comes out february 10th i think so we have charlotte we announced charlotte and nashville another nashville show so go get tickets and that's what you drink.com slash live which means also go ahead no no no tomorrow is our anniversary oh high five to you yay high five and then a second hand five to the second year yeah so i i'm sure if we were not about to go toward i would have done something i would have done something wildly elaborate for this episode we would have planned ahead but we did not because we are train wrecks are we're trying to keep ourselves together for you but know that i love you and i'm very proud of the two years that we've created and how about let's just postpone it and expect a present from me when we're done touring okay

it'll just be a delayed anniversary gift okay i'll work on saying two now that i'm finally trying to get my shit together um not planning weddings and stuff okay but yeah i'm very proud of us too i'm so happy that i i mean i feel like we're like really not laying it on thick, which like is very unlike us. But like, I mean, two years, let's for the sake of it. Where were we two, two years before the podcast, like two years ago, right before we started the podcast. I have no clue.

Where were you, Boston? No, before that. I was in Cincinnati living in my mom's house. I don't know where I was. Who knows? I don't know how to do math. Who? So where were we?

Let's talk about how the podcast has changed our lives like things we're grateful for I am so grateful that you came into my life even though you were already in my life but you became a new role like a more important role in my life I like how I fished my own compliment right out of you no I'm kidding I mean it I mean it I'm I'm very grateful for our friendship i had no idea i could somehow work this well with someone in our own business agree let alone a business especially someone i already knew like i wouldn't have it would have occurred to me that someone i met a year ago would suddenly become like my business partner yeah it's very weird that when we went to um it's the fact that we went to school

together and we had so many like acquaintance based yeah we come out occasionally yeah it's so weird that if they were to like if they out in the world were to make a movie about us it like there would be a whole year there'd be a whole prequel movie there'd be a whole prequel of us like not even actually like always being in the same room and not really thinking about each other at all oh yeah that's true not even like thinking we'd have anything in common or whatever, or would ever reach out to each other or ever become friends. But I'm very grateful for our friendship. And without you, I wouldn't be able to have quit my job. Even though I love that job. I never knew by 26. I'd be a business partner. Same. Oh my god, we own our own company. It's amazing. That just occurred to me we oh my god

my stomach just flipped that's so exciting see happy two years for us that was the emotion i was trying to get out of you um i would have never met geo okay fair i would have never met allison let's bring her in second um and i god i've given you so much and truly if we're going off of the butterfly effect which i could honestly talk about for the rest of my life. Love the butterfly effect. I probably wouldn't be in L.A. I would have probably gone home because I think I would have. Oh, me neither. I would have probably given up my quote dream.

Same. I think I would be back in Ohio. Yeah. I think my life would be vastly different if it weren't for you. Mine too. You really changed my life. You changed my life. It's so weird.

It's hand in hand. And I feel like the show, the podcast has like changed me as a person too. Oh, yeah. And brought me out of my shell a lot and kind of taught me what I value. And we've met so many people who apparently, allegedly, we've also changed lives for. And it's really nice that people have met through us. I mean, speaking of Butterfly, well, it's not really the Butterfly. But that in turn has changed our lives because it means so much that you know people are everyone's being affected by each other in a great way so hang on let's do a little clinky oh my gosh okay here you take the

other one we were like what should we what could we possibly have to talk about in this episode and now we're here like oh oh god that sounded dangerously good here yeah that was a nice classy high-pitched clink i love it all right cheers to us sorry you guys had to hear that we love you guys everyone is probably already and honestly you guys made this happen too so oh a thousand weeks i mean obviously this wouldn't exist without you so thank you thank you christine for starting this podcast with me and thank you to everyone else for allowing us to continue right for letting us do this for a full-time job and that being said just because we're so in sync and our friendship is so weirdly in tuned always my story today is not a story at all but i am doing dramatic

readings of others experiences with sleep paralysis stop it it is very weird why do we keep doing this i don't know it's very very well one of the methods i didn't mention it but one of the methods to get into sleep paralysis is called wild and it's wake induced lucid dreaming and basically you fall asleep but you keep your mind awake so it's literally you induce sleep paralysis and they're like don't worry there's a phase where sometimes like you'll see hallucinations or you feel like someone's sitting on your chest and your body will paralyze but it'll pass and i'm like what oh my god i don't want to induce sleep paralysis on myself like that's not okay so i do a different method but anyway oh good so

that's a part of it you avoid the demons but some people do it on purpose wild not me not me no thank you it's wild that's the name of it good job very very cool it is wild it is i wish i wonder i wonder what the uh sleep paralysis form of bananas is i it is wild i wish i wonder i wonder what the uh sleep paralysis form of bananas is i what the fuck i was like okay whatever you say i'm gonna say bananas afterwards then you stole it out from under me all right so these i found mainly on reddit thought catalog and uh some other websites mainly thought catalog and reddit buzzfeed maybe buzzfeed i think i read those now it's like those aren't good websites mainly thought catalog and reddit buzzfeed maybe buzzfeed i think i read those and i was like those aren't good enough the thought catalog ones are lists are always so dark

i know that's why i went okay this is gonna scare the shit out of me you're fine the only time i ever had sleep paralysis was while i was researching sleep paralysis so this is gonna be great well i also as you notice i'm actually doing my story on my phone this time around so i don't know how long this is and i don't know if i got too many stories or not enough stories i'm just gonna read what i have dive in baby and we're just gonna run out the clock apparently so um i also i i copy and pasted ones that i thought were good and basically i copy and pasted a lot into this list and i was like oh maybe these maybe these will be good but i never went back and edited out the ones that weren't as creepy as the ones I found later on so I think these progressively get worse

oh great so buckle up knuckle and buckle so um I think the the thread I got these from on reddit in case you want to read along or find your own I think it was um for people who have sleep paralysis what's the scariest experience you've had? Oh, God. Something like that. So just like dive right in. Something to that effect. Cool. So and I thought about making this just before I go into this, I thought about making this an episode about sleep paralysis in general, about like the science behind it. Yeah. And I think I might actually do that for another episode because someone tweeted me, I think two nights ago and said can you do an episode on the science of sleep paralysis so i might be doing dramatic

readings this time around but one day i might actually cover why sleep paralysis is and apparently there's a um there i don't it's i don't know what i'm saying basically there is a sleep paralysis demon so it's like the shadow figure that everyone sees right um apparently is you it's universal that with sleep paralysis there is a specific demon about sleep paralysis so i might just cover stories on that demon one day okay i think i'm butchering the explanation of this i think i know what you mean and then why people right i might go into like how sleep paralysis comes to be and where this demon might come from and then i might do some more stories in the future because sleep paralysis is just super interesting and the science

pet is too so that would be cool yeah so this is just ones that i found right out of reddit and i didn't really categorize okay i didn't i didn't have any bias on these yeah so the first one and they're all pretty quick so i wanted to get a couple in um the first one says i have recurrent isolated sleep paralysis i have these episodes very often and honestly they're terrifying mostly or most of the time i see these seven foot tall cloaked figures that sway and chant oh god one of the worst ones that springs to mind is when i woke up obviously couldn't move my eyes and i had crushing weight on my chest and i could hear noises downstairs in the kitchen i then heard footsteps slowly coming up the stairs and they stopped for a second and then i heard something

absolutely gunning it down the hallway towards my room and slam into the bedroom door and then silence after that why did you tell me they start better and then end worse because now i'm terrified it's a mix and match uh i guess i never think about it as like you could hear a burglar in your house or well that's what i liked about most of these stories that i picked they're not just the usual like i felt something standing over me it's like oh i heard something downstairs in the kitchen and then something ran into my door you can't move your but i mean that's the ultimate terror yeah yeah and a lot of these i realized there was a lot of really i did not cover these stories at all but there's a lot of people who think that someone actually broke into their

house and is actually stealing stuff around like they see like a burglar in their home taking all of their shit and then they wake up and none of their stuff is stolen your brain is like trying to come up with the scariest possible maybe or like maybe you in your sub psyche maybe you hear a sound and your brain while asleep tries to come up with a rational explanation like oh it's probably your cat they're like it's probably this scary man right it's like oh someone someone came in and is gonna kill me um another one i am 42 and first had a nightmare about a terrifying witch at the age of 16 she kneels on my chest and stares into my face slowly getting nearer and nearer i'm completely terrified and she wears a black cloak and hood her face is like a witch and evil generates from her

and surrounds me from around her other times i can be lying on my stomach and she will creep her hand up the back of my head down my face and hook her fingers under the top teeth and pull my head back so i'm gonna i'm going to lose my mind this is terrible other times she will bite sit on the bed knock on, call my name, and generally scare the shit out of me. What is... So let's discuss. So I always thought up until this, and like obviously I'm not like an expert in sleep paralysis. I'm very lucky to have not had too many of those myself. Yeah.

But I always experienced sleep paralysis or I always kind of thought the stigma of it was someone stares at you but can't touch you. Kind of like a haunted house where they're paid to like scare you but not actually interact right so they come closer to your face but can't like right i didn't know that these things were like coming up and touching you that makes it significantly worse like pulling your head and you can't move well one thing that actually that reminds me of is when you're lucid dreaming because i've been researching this a lot you can your brain creates sensation so like when i hit the ceiling like i felt it on my back and like i was brushing the ceiling and like there were window panes and i was like brushing window panes like your brain literally invents that so it makes sense that if you're sleeping that your

brain can like create sensations oh that's terrible oh gross also like i imagine like you always think like if you're hiding under a blanket, you know, maybe you're safer. It's that weird childhood thought. But this person was face down into the pillows. Like, there's no way this thing should be able to interact with your face. And it literally reached under your pillow and yanked your head up. Oh, my God. Ugh, no thanks.

All right, the next one. Okay, no thanks. Anyway. Okay, moving on. Next. I woke up this morning with all the blood drained from my hands and arms. I tried to move them, but there was no bones left and it was just my skin. I tried to get out of bed and the skin from my left arm got caught on the corner of my bed frame and ripped my left arm off clean.

So that's sleep paralysis too. Like way fucked up and didn't even involve a demon you like you're your own nightmare yeah oh my god can you imagine just thinking you're awake and then your arm just ripping the fuck off this heated blanket is not helping me right now i'm like can you imagine just igniting into flames oh my god i'm chilled to my core but truly like i can't i can't imagine lying in bed and thinking i'm awake and then my i just don't have bones anymore like what kind of fucked up psyches do we have that this is what our brains invent i really hope that every like there was only one really fucked up person

who thought like that and then everyone has just heard that story and absorbed it into their brain like wow that's terrifying right yeah i mean that was the whole story that was just like fucking hell what's the most fucked up i mean that's very sleep paralysis and i again because i'm stupid and don't really understand sleep paralysis entirely i assumed a demon was always involved or a black shadow figure but this is like oh yeah my arms just ripped themselves off right it's just like pure anything's possible i guess so pure horror that is what it is okay this one says i opened my eyes in bed and looked straight into the eyes of an extremely pale-skinned guy who was hovering two feet above me parallel to my body deadpan face black eyes suddenly he smiled but the smile kept

getting wider until it was literally to his ears then he put his hands on my chest in a cpr like fashion and pushed his way through my chest crushing everything along the way woke up swinging and gasping and that was just awful i'm going to throw up that is so someone floating parallel to you with a deadpan face and then a creepy ass smile and then they break through your chest with their hands eyes i think what's oh what scares me about that too is that i've always told myself i know it's not true but i've always told myself that if i have sleep paralysis i just can close my eyes and ignore it because the one time i did have sleep paralysis i just shut my eyes and was like i'm gonna wait my go-to is just pray just like close your eyes and pray like i'm the most devout person on earth so i thought oh maybe you don't have to see whatever is happening in the room but if you open your eyes and you just see that right in

front of you you have no choice you have no choice at all oh my god you can't hide i mean there's i mean there's nothing scarier than them being able to touch you while staring at you and you can't close your eyes you can't move like you just have to keep the eye contact that's forced eye contact to the extreme well yeah wow okay so this one's longer and i don't remember copy and pasting this in so we're all gonna go on a little trip together on a journey i experienced it quite often and this is them all answering you know your tell us your sleep paralysis story so blah i experienced it quite often maybe once a month or so and i've seen and felt all the usual things, tall, dark figures, pressing on my chest, being shot. Didn't even know that was a thing.

You know, the usual, uh, can't move my body trying to scream, but nothing coming out. First time I remember it happening. I was 12 and staying at a friend's house and didn't think much of it aside from having a bad dream. The last time though was the most intense and left me unable to sleep for a week. And I had to take time off work. I was laying there in bed and out of conscious. Oh, I was lying there in and out of conscious for an hour or two because I had a headache.

Guess I passed out and then sleep paralysis kicked in. Oh, my God. I felt and saw myself being dragged into the bathroom and thrown into a bathtub full of bloody water. Oh, I would wake up and crawl back to my bed and hide under the covers good plan any everything was so vivid and lifelike i thought i was actually awake i could look out at the alarm clock though and the time never changed and then the same dark figure that looked like the girl from the ring oh god would come back and drag me out of the bed and throw me back into the bloody tub i could see the scratches on my legs from her nails and i could Oh my god i turned my bedroom light on and all my pillows and blankets were on the floor and my

bedside table had been knocked over i also apparently had a nosebleed while i was asleep because there was dried blood and on my pillow and face oh my god that is even scarier because once again i don't understand what sleep paralysis is and again not only did i think there was at least a shadow figure and they couldn't touch you but i thought for sure you didn't leave your bed or they weren't able to like rip you out of it and right there was blood and scratches everywhere and when you woke up your entire room was upside down oh blood on the pillow oh blood on the pillow i mean either she's punching herself in the face or like there's definitely something trying to attack her well or she that was part of what instigated the dream subconsciously oh see i'm already i'm ready i'm like the ghosts are swinging or she hit herself it sounds like she was banging well i remember

having a sleep paralysis dream when i was younger i had one where i flew around and i went all the although in hindsight i don't know if it was dreaming yeah lucid dreaming sorry i had i don't know if it was a lucid dream or if i was astral projecting i don't really understand the difference between the two it felt out of body yeah i remember the entire thing and i remember leaving my bed flying downstairs into the kitchen and kind of doing a little lap around the kitchen and then going back up to my bed and i remember the whole thing and it was awesome and then there's a second quote dream where I remember waking up and seeing some this is my personal story uh the closest thing I've had I remember waking up and feeling something in my bedroom and I feel something like I not that something grabbed my head but I remember not being able to control my own head

rising oh it was almost like it was telepathically being moved okay and then it slammed down like someone slammed my face back down on the bed but i was in a bunk bed and it hit the the banister or the railing and so when i woke up the next day i had a massive bruise on my face and no one believed me that i like bashed my own face into the bed oh my god but i had no control of it so made i guess my this all stemmed from me thinking about her bloody nose i'm like maybe someone bashed her head into the into the nightstand also maybe she just like maybe it's sleep paralysis i just want my story to be valid from like 1995 terrifying i mean it's just as terrifying even if it's subconscious i mean for all i know i just really just threw my own head into the bed but i remember like not being able to control my head and it getting slammed down yeah hmm interesting

interesting i just wanted i just wanted to tell my own story could you tell well that's what this whole podcast is we just want to talk about ourselves uh the next one uh i talked about it a few months ago in another thread fortunately Fortunately, it only happened to me once. Sleep paralysis. I was about 14 and dealing with insomnia, so my mom let me stay at home that day. I was taking a nap in the middle of the afternoon, and I woke up and started hearing my China dolls speaking and children laughing. Oh, no.

I was trying to get up, but there were two hands preventing my head from doing so. So two little hands were holding her head down wait doll head hands i don't know but hands in general two little hands oh little hands like porcelain dolls and then she woke up with an ocular migraine oh yikes this i mean i don't want to blaze past that that's really just terrible to hear children singing and laughing. And your dolls are like suddenly animate. The worst toy story. I hope she threw those away. So the next one is I woke up paralyzed, but still breathing, which made me feel slightly better.

Then a horrifying black demon looking, a horrifying black demon looking thing glided into my room it was vaguely humanoid with oddly stretched and pointed limbs and its face looked just like the aliens from the movie alien um it was pure glossy black i didn't know shadow figures could be glossy me neither and i could see a glide in from the light coming from the slightly ajar door but then it slid all the way to the pitch darkness of the other side of the room and i couldn't see it anymore then i regained control of my limbs it was terrible yikes i think the thing that really caught me on that one was the fact that it was glossy that i did not see coming i actually listened to an episode about shadow people once and i did hear some people see them as shine like shiny almost really yeah now that now that you mentioned that but i think yeah

usually it's not like that but i think what creeps me out is like the elongated pointed limbs. Yeah. Ugh. Um. It's horrible. Uh, blah, blah, blah. This one's a quick one, but someone said, uh, I fell asleep one night and then I felt something slide up on my body.

Puh. Then like, as if plunging into a cold pool, my control and rational understanding of the situation flees. And I realized with absolute certainty, there is a witch in my room holy shit and she slithers up on my chest locking her mouth over mine oh my god i desperately try to wriggle out but i can't move and i can feel her sucking the breath out of my lungs that i mean that's the whole story it's cute okay imagine sleep paralysis then imagine a demon then imagine it's slithering out from under your bed sheets on your body and then imagine it going mouth to mouth on you and you

sucking out your breath it's not even like making out with you it's just like pulling the air out it's just terrible is what it is this one i thought was just gross but hang in there i think it's like funny gross. I don't know if this was sleep paralysis or night terrors, but for maybe a year when I was seven or eight, I had these awful dreams. That door is definitely opening a little by itself. Oh, because it's a juniper. God, why do they know? They know to do that.

I was like, I'm not kidding. That door is opening for sure. I just saw a little white paw. Oh, OK. I don't know if this is a sleep paralysis or night terrors, but for a year I had these awful dreams. They were about my life-size Barbie doll. Oh, I hated those.

I would have dreams where I felt awake, but I was asleep and the doll was terrorizing me. The worst one I can remember was us on the floor and she was crawling toward me with this huge angry smile and I wanted to get up and move away but I couldn't. I'm 19 now so I don't remember a lot of them. I just know that it went on for a while and my dad was worried because I'd be screaming in my sleep. They stopped when we got rid of the doll. Yikes. Okay, my first sleepover ever at my best friend Maria's house and I kept waking up and having these like night terrors about her life-size barbie doll and i was so jealous of it during the day i had to go wake her mom up and she had to put it in the closet and

lock the closet because i was so terrified of that stupid doll it was like four and a half feet tall it's like taller than me yikes they're scary they really are i mean there really should not be anything that looks so close to a human and be considered life-size keep in your child's bedroom right no can you imagine a life-size furby okay that would be the end of it you mean like human-sized oh yes okay like a clifford furby oh god furby it could eat you it could eat you it could a furby i'm just that big i imagine it would i would at least dream as a five-year-old it was gonna eat me oh absolutely plus it would know all the government secrets i mean there's a lot of things to worry about the fbi would not be on board with a giant furby oh there's a juniper wow do you want to hear some scary stories with mama yay oh such a baby

sweet boy okay this one got me good okay a couple months ago i had fallen asleep with my back to the ceiling so again hiding your face in the pillow well usually they say lying on your back makes it more likely to happen so this is terrifying me that people on their stomach right there's no there's no safe way to sleep you can't win the this episode started with my door creaking open and a creature coming in and putting all of its weight on me it then told me not to move or it would kill me oh my god and it began to lick the rim of my ear with a forked tongue right after that i was able to move and the episode was over i've never been so terrified in my life i have

chills just some like anyone's tongue licking the rim of your ear let's start there absolutely not second of all the tongue is forked third of all the person said don't move or i'll kill you fourth of all you feel the weight of this demon on you cannot move and you can't move you just have to just deal with your ear getting licked just gotta wait it out whoo um i'm pretty sure this was my favorite one okay that i'm gonna read to you i'd fallen asleep hugging my husband's back oh big spoon you can't win i told you no sleeping you're right no sleeping is safe no no spooning is safe when i woke up quote woke up his face was the wrong way around stop it so she's big spooning him and his face is facing her stop it and the face changed into that of a demon's and one that is screaming at me fuck so imagine a screaming you're spooning a screaming demon and

it's staring right in front of your face there were shadow people hanging on the wall behind him hanging on the wall behind him oh gross i was paralyzed in the position hugging him all i could do was scream and do my methods to try and wake myself up but it didn't work the worst part is that she like knows what she's like well i mean not that she knows what's happening but like she knows she's trying to get awake she knows she's not awake to like try and wake herself up and they're not working imagine imagine all of that but especially like you're also extra not alone because there's several shadow people hanging on the walls behind you like as witnesses to this i also just realized that was very heteronormative i did not realize i did not know if that was a woman or not i just oh i that was horrible of me too because i

also assumed it was a woman that is not appropriate on either paralysis is for everyone yeah wait even put that on a shirt someone someone make a shirt that says that and it has a rainbow yeah reading the LGBT flag on fire no that's not good that's not good I didn't mean to like I didn't say that I met like the devil not oh Jesus not this is not helping okay let's move on at least you're a part of it I'm not even thank god I we all know what I'm trying to say but we also know what's coming out and it's not the same thing. Reading rain? That's what I meant.

I didn't even mean, like, LGBT, and then I was like, oh, that actually fits really well. I meant, like, the more you know. I meant more, like, equality, but. Oh, yeah, keep explaining it. I want to hear more. Let's just go back to the time where we said sleep processes for everyone, and then we just stopped talking. Can that be our last words on Earth? The show just ended.

Good. Oh, my God. Okay, there okay there are i think three left okay the worst experience for me was being able to see through my walls as well as seeing myself in the bed laying down so it's like you'd think that'd be cool but it sounds like this is going to be terrible it's like horrible astral projection x-ray vision right so they can see themselves and they can see through the walls and i'm looking at a shadow-like figure slowly creeping to my room's entrance in the hallway oh so they can see it they can yeah it's like well it's like the sims you know you can see things in other rooms coming into other rooms you could see chauncey chauncey bliss is just parading down the hallway all the while I could hear a buzzing noise that would make me feel more fear as if it slowly approached me as it slowly approached

me so they're hearing this noise it's getting closer and closer that coupled with my body shivering as I try to tell myself it's not real and slowed on my heartbeat to force myself to wake up this time in particular it took me longer than usual to wake up so everything around me felt like a blur and i could see a figure in the corner of my room as i was waking up it slowly creeps up to my bed and all of a sudden it reaches towards me and it felt like i had a huge force pushing down on me trying to suffocate me and the whole time the noise was louder than ever so it's like the the being itself made and had some sort of pitch or frequency that the closer it got louder yeah i mean this is like a horror movie director should go on and subreddit and be like wow this is truly the most terrible i mean this is a gold mine for movie

scripts you'd think so that buzzing noise yeesh um so this one is i just happened oh this just happened to me a couple weeks ago a small child here we go oh a small child hand oh god no came out from under my bed followed by his head no eyes no nose just three weird slits for a mouth stop it. He looked at me for a second and then whispered, I can only see the scariest things. He then stood up and started violently pounding on the side of my bed. All I could do was lay there and sort of moan. I heard my roommate wake up and he seemed he seemed to wake up as well because he jumped to the end of my bed and sort of crouched down staring at the door. So he could kind of see something going on, too too maybe my roommate came in and my into my room

to see what was going on as a kid crouched on the bed oh the kid oh like crouched because the roommate was coming it's coming oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god that's some dear david nonsense literally the whole time i was thinking that my roommate came in my room to see what was going on as i fully woke up and i could see the kid slither back under my bed out of the corner of my eye oh my god i'm like covered in oh my god can you imagine this little baby without eyes or a nose but three slits for a mouth says i can only see the scariest things apparently didn't want to see the roommate and crouching like no intelligently knowing that it needs to hide knowing its intent to scare this one i'm confused by but i liked it okay it had a lot of things going on it was all about uh there's a a gender neutral aspect to it also this writer seems to be team wine at the end

okay let's go maybe they're a listener maybe what can you imagine how trippy that would be if we read somebody who's listening right on in this is your story so the last story i have is i would often see a genderless being in my room i named it z it uh because apparently this is the part i don't understand in parentheses i named it z it would text me sometimes and would often type the letter z at the end and would only grace me with its presence when i was at my lowest so i wonder if you're getting like texts in your dream in your dream or like in real life what if you got texts the night of and you're like who's that like if you got all these weird mysterious mysterious texts and then you had sleep paralysis and they're

like it was warning you it was me all along i don't know maybe there's a ghost texting you who knows um or maybe it's an ex or maybe it's a z oh man z had flowing long dark hair eyes seemed blurred no mouth one horn on the side of its head forget it usually didn't have a lower body dressed in rags that were quite pleasing to look at so z's a fashionista compliment that's fine uh my most terrifying encounter was my first encounter and i woke up paralyzed in my field of vision so like couldn't move your eyes either like you could only see one thing and everything was absolutely normal nothing out of place aside from z contorted around my desk chair okay no i looked at him or i'm saying him it's but the it was specified the right genderless being the writer is using it and i'm i don't like that no you got to say it

it makes it so much creepier okay um i looked at it being z and it looked back a moment later it glitched and floated one foot above the floor contorting its body towards me okay as soon as it and as soon as it reached my face i felt myself fading out of my own room. Ew. Like fading into like an abyss maybe. So, okay. Let's regather here. Z is contorted around a desk chair. Okay.

Then glitches and is floating a foot above the floor, floating towards her while contorting again. Okay. Just all bad. Okay. Then she's fading out of the abyss. Okay. And then I awoke in a dream like realm where everything was white and blank it was like being in a universe where nothing existed other than my conscience i had no body i was just a thought i felt like i was there for an hour or so and this was my first ever lucid dream oh like you can enter lucid dreaming that way

which why would you want to do that yeah especially that way with z contorted around a chair floating on you this is my first lucid dream over the years i was able to control these dreams and create and destroy whatever i wanted and i felt like a god nothing was impossible i stopped having these dreams when i became an adult and grew out of my grew out of my depression i don't know if i agree with that but i mean maybe they felt like they grew as a maybe no longer just suffered from symptoms okay i don't know anyway then says i think of z often and then at the end it says sorry about the errors i'm hung over on vacation it's 8 a.m and i really need some water oh my god so uh freaky freaky stuff i can't imagine anyone contorting around anything near

me and me feeling safe no and then going into this white abyss i'd be safer there though i feel like right but i mean actually there's a psychology question of if you were in a room that had no walls no doors nothing it was just a white endless room and there was nothing but you how would you feel and apparently the answer to that is um the answer to how you feel about death what that's supposed to be like it's like a psychology question to figure out how you feel about death oh you should have asked me first so i would have known so you wouldn't have been primed yeah i'll ask a different one um okay now i still know what the it's not about death it's not it's a different thing um so how what is your favorite color um

i don't know don't overthink it yellow okay why and give three descriptive reasons so not not because it looks good on you but because it's like bold or because it's good on me um because It's associated with happiness. It brightens up a room. And it is the color of daytime. Sure. I'll go with the first two. Those are... So if you ask that question... Okay, so I'm going to do another one then.

What is your favorite animal? And then three reasons why. An elephant. Okay. animal and then three reasons why um an elephant okay because they're deeply empathetic and they are very like very intelligent animals and they're very like close-knit in their own communities so the how you feel about an animal is how you see yourself which is i would say you you would agree with all those things about yourself no it's just like how like it it gets you to actually say things about yourself that you like without actually realizing

that's kind of a nice thing and then the color is how you want people to see you oh my goodness that is trippy yeah i got a lot of those we can play that game forever whoa yeah but so the the white endless room and there's nothing to do no way to get out how do you feel that's supposed to be sheer terror okay some people will say terror some people will say at peace like opportunity i'm relieved or there's nothing keeping there's nothing i have to do you know finally don't have to go to the bank first thing in the morning no banks no yeah yeah my loans aren't there meanwhile i'm like no office no charmed no top model what am i gonna do i thought you meant like that work like oh it's like no

no top model oh my god but yeah so that's there's a bunch of questions like that that is wild well i guess you guys all got a little glimpse into my persona or like wannabe persona anyway that's kind of a fun game yeah for people to play too it's a good game i hope you guys played along i hope so too my mom actually i would you would think i learned that from like college but my mom actually taught me that because she was part of like a i don't know if it was an internship or a senior sem or something like that but in college she had to do she had to go volunteer and i think she was in a psych class and they were given this list of questions to ask but she had to go volunteer. And I think she was in a psych class and they were given this list of questions to ask,

but she had to go volunteer at a prison and they had to go ask the prisoners these questions. And I think they were some really like some of the criminals who had done some actually like really intense, like murders and, and rapes and things like that. So really intense crimes. And all of their answers were pretty wild especially when you looked at their um like if they were in solitary confinement and like how the how the brain changed how do you feel about an empty room where you have nothing if you're in solitary confinement like pretty fucking terrible i would imagine it's also creepy because some of the murderers apparently one of the most

popular favorite colors was beige beige and it was because it blends in and nobody notices it and nobody thinks about it it's weird because they don't realize they're describing themselves but that so hard isn't it wild yick yeah so thank you linda for that little party trick linda yep oh she is full of surprises that lady look there's nothing she can't do and there's nothing she hasn't done so my god wow okay that was was that it that was it holy crap this is a wild i'm i still have goosebumps from like before we played this game anyway bye christine good night i'm sleeping here alone tonight because blaze is at work so that's fantastic yikes thank you okay well moving on to murder you know something lighter something light something easy Something easy. Easy breezy.

I'm real quick. So Allie got me this sparkling wine from Portland. Oh, you mean this barrel that's on our table right now? It is a 32 ounce can. It's called a crowler. Like instead of a growler, it's like a canned growler. Oh, I like that. Yeah.

So and then she's like, well, I was like, I'm going to drink. And she's like, well, you have to drink it all in one sitting because. It goes bad? Yeah, because it's sparkling. And so you just have to drink it all. So I like well that's a bummer so here i am you can hear really bummed out very effervescent very effervescent um i came upstairs to uh start recording and i see christine behind me with her quote crowler and she's got an empty cup and i'm like hey hey, how are you doing? And she was like, let's fucking party. I was like, wow, Christine's in a good mood today. I'm still in my pajamas.

I have not left the house today. This whole house has been the laziest house today. We have been. And Blaze is at work, but we are the laziest. I think Blaze thinks you guys are being really active and energetic today. I came to the house to record and Christine, Alex, and Allie are all in their pajamas and barely have done anything. There's no lights turned on. No, it was pitch dark out there. I was like, turn on some fucking lights, man.

Everyone's just having a relaxing day. That's good. Today was my day to like prepare notes for next week. So I did spend six hours on notes, but I was a hermit, like in my bed doing that. So I i feel like even i was technically productive but i didn't leave the house today so gotcha let's fucking party all right let's fucking party with your 32 ounces that you're not sharing with anyone because eva's not here that's right i'm like you want some i'll happily share it all right tell me a tale tell me a tall tale this is a tall tale indeed so this is the story of j frank hickey the postcard killer the postcard killer so thank you to big props to wikipedia for what up wiki a lot of this information which to be fair i think emma and i at least me probably you sometimes like

generally across the board thank you to wikipedia for oh a thousand percent i donate every time i was gonna say i started donating because i'm like god i use this so much um so thank you to wikipedia because this is kind of an old-timey story so murderpedia and wikipedia were my my friends um there's not too much information out there so john frank hickey he was born in lowell massachusetts okay to irish immigrants on october 29th 1865 so we're in the 1800s all right i can get around that year yeah you can grasp that i can grasp that one what was last week 1560 i'm still trying to process it so one of the facts about him is that he was baptized Roman Catholic at St. Patrick's church,

which was only two blocks from his parents' house. Oh, good to know. I'm like, why in the world is that in there? But then I was like, it is kind of weird that he's baptized Roman Catholic, even though he was born to Irish immigrants.

Right. Cause like Irish Catholicism is different. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Um, I mean, anything you say is currently going to be better than me. Literally saying the rainbow flag on fire. I literally, I'm still thinking about it and it's something I currently going to be better than me literally saying the rainbow flag on fire

I literally I'm still thinking about it and it's something I'm going to cringe about for the next like eight years And I'm trying to go to sleep And to be fair you are a member of the LGBT community I just meant I don't even know You didn't mean anything negative I hate myself just don't worry you could royally fuck this up I'm just so happy I didn't say it I feel like we should just like have an award at the end of every episode of who said the worst thing

i think this time i won i think maybe you won i think i won yeah and i'm really proud of you thank you okay so anyway he's catholic um he later claimed to have been physically abused by his father but this information only came to light after his arrest for murder so it's unclear whether there's truth to the statement got it and not to say not to make light of physical abuse of a child but it was something where people who've studied him have kind of doubted whether or not that was true got it i hear you um so in his early teens hickey joined lowell's first congregational church uh and became an official of the lowell yMCA and the Christian Endeavor. So this guy's just like in his religious community on top of it. He worked at the YMCA. When he was 18, he got a job at a pharmacy called the McGibbons Drug Store.

And on September 1st, 1883, he called the police and he said he had found the pharmacist Edwin W. Morey dead on the floor. Ooh, Morey on the floor- mori on the floor that's what i always say um so hickey claimed that mori had been despondent for some time due to his troubles with alcoholism and that uh he that hickey had been trying to help him regain sobriety uh and then he had found him on the floor gotcha uh the doctor believed that mori had taken poison so they pumped his stomach so they thought he had uh was trying to take his own life um and at midnight he showed some signs of life but ultimately he died at three

o'clock in the morning and it wasn't until years later that haki admitted to having murdered mori with laudanum because he was drunk okay and he said he was afraid that if their employer had found maury intoxicated that he would fire both of them so he's like well you're a drunk idiot i don't want to lose my job so i'm gonna fucking poison you oh i oh okay and like just didn't get caught for that so i mean in the 1880s you really can't get away with much so and if he's like wow he had such troubles with alcoholism he's like a teenager this guy and then they find poison in his system it's like maybe he was trying to right you know take his own

life i don't know it's it's like the century of hearsay i think yes there's really not much proof just hearsay left and right take a little swig i need it it gets worse okay good hickey applied for and received membership in lowell lowell's william north masonic lodge in 1887 okay after listing his occupation as secretary of the ymca that's why i kind of mentioned that he got a job at the ymca he was not the secretary of the ymca but he put that on his resume to get himself into the masonic lodge i hear you in 1889 he became a master mason so i looked into this um there are three degrees or levels of membership you know about this i know all about the masons yeah i figured you would so there's the entered apprentice the fellow craft and master mason which is like a fully qualified free mason okay so he became that in 1889

and although his biographer vance mclaughlin describes him as having quote quit the masons in june 1895 the actual masonic records tell a different story which is that in march 1895 hickey was arrested in lowell massachusetts for stealing 20 gallons of alcohol from his employer 20 gallons oh my god is it christine in a past life i think so 20 crawlers um so he was arrested for stealing i mean that's not very subtle no but i mean also neither was sipping on that crawler no that was kind of really unwieldy if you i know this is like such a stretch but this is exactly where my brain just decided to fart right out yeah can you imagine in the 1800s let's say that was the past you sure and you collected enough alcohol this has nothing to do with your story by the way i'm about to totally just take

a left yeah let's go let's say i jumped on board i ditched my story in the 1800s you like stole enough alcohol that then you die and then are reincarnated into like someone in the family and the alcohol is still there and like you like saved up enough stockpiled alcohol to continue drinking into the next life so like when uh little kids are born and they're like i'm grandpa so-and-so yeah and it's like oh grandpa so-and-so stored so much whiskey in the floor board right and only that little child knows about it it's like and then imagine that little child with the whiskey being like that is a drunk five-year-old i knew i would need this in the next life thanks past me oh my goodness what do you do you think you would uh stockpile wine for your future self i think i would stockpile wine and i wouldn't be very good at it

and it would all be gone by the time right you would your your future self would just like open up like the safe where it should be and there's be a bunch of empty bottles you'd be like damn it damn it old me I should have known yeah because I mean I try to do that now where I'm like I'll just buy enough for like a few months and then not months a few weeks and then I'm like who am I kidding a few weeks and then just no oh man anyway i know that was such a left turn but it's where my brain went and i wanted to make sure other people were aware of my thought process well a fun thing happened where i set this down and it got wet with my crowler drink so now i'm gonna have to try and read this oh that is blurry because it's two-sided paper or double-sided printing it's gonna be a choose your own adventure really oh god okay guess the words here we go

so he was arrested for stealing okay 20 gallons of alcohol from his employer in response the which okay i'm not gonna derail again i was gonna say i wonder if he still works at the ymca because that would be really funny let's start with i'm not gonna derail again as i do in response the grand lodge of massachusetts ruled hickey quote a liar and profane and expelled him from all the rights and privileges of freemasonry on june 12 1895 wow so he was out of there out of there man in 18 oh is that a clown car that's my ride oh sorry i'm sorry some friends from college uh we've got in touch we're going out for drinks tonight lord in 1896 hickey left lowell massachusetts and would never live there again between then and 1902 he drifted that six years he drifted

around canada and the northeastern united states working various industrial jobs. On December 10th, 1902, he encountered, okay, this is where it just gets terrible. Glad we did our fun bantering. That was a good time. Eva, try to find a title name in that. Yeah, you're not going to find a fun title. Oh, great. From now on. Okay, good.

Okay, so he encountered an 11-year-old newspaper vendor named Michael R. Kruk. Michael offered to sell him a newspaper, and Hickey responded that he would purchase all of the newspapers if the boy would follow him into Central Park. Oh, this boy sounds like a murder victim. When Michael followed him, Hickey strangled him and left his body with the newspaper bundle under his head. Oh, no.

The coroner later examined the body body found no evidence of sexual assault and the coroner's inquest ruled that michael r crook met his death by being strangled by quote by some person or persons unknown to this jury on december 12 1902 michael crook's body was released from the morgue and was buried at brooklyn's washington jewish cemetery so at the time they had no idea who had done it wow on october 11th 1911 seven-year-old joey joseph disappeared from the streets of lackawanna new york after his father an immigrant laborer reported his son missing police launched a full-scale search but the boy had basically vanished into thin air so they really no clue where this kid was um despite the assistance of

the buffalo police department the investigation into his disappearance had almost no leads they really had no idea where he could have gone and then with two weeks later um after a fruitless search the lackawanna police department started receiving mysterious postcards oh postcard killer got it yeah um some messages described the crime uh while others expressed an obviously false remorse and on october 30th 1911 a postcard was delivered to the chief of police reading joey joseph will be found in the bottom of a water closet with three seats back of the saloon near doyle's on ridge road a drunk crazed brain done the deed and remorse and sorrow for the parents is bringing

results that will soon come to an end the demon whiskey will then have one more victim making four in all drag the closet with the three seats oh so that is how they found the body of joey joseph in the water closet behind the bar or whatever establishment doyles is wow um so the case was sensationalized by the media because obviously this was like a crazy story right kid goes missing those postcards describing the crime they're like who the hell could this possibly be right um a young psychiatrist named nelson kid wilson kid wilson sounds like a western outlaw it sounds like a cowboy yeah right yeah i've also maybe that's i'm primed for that because i've been researching for our houston or our dallas and houston shows me too all these stories are all about cowboys cowboys

everywhere wow also the sundance kid right you know butch cassidy nope that's not a thing i mean it is a thing but it's not right right sundance kid maybe that's what i was thinking butch cassie and the sundance kid that's why that's what i'm i i was on board the whole time i was like what do you mean that's not i'm like that's weird that i thought of butch cassidy i'm sorry lord okay my brain is so full today that's like me saying the lone ranger and you're like yeah tanto wait that's not right so strange that i came up with that look at my little brain go oh my god look at my little brain chugging chugging slowly but surely it'll get there eventually thank you oh now there's confetti stuck to my paperwork this is just getting worse out of control okay so anyway kid wilson there There he is. Kicking down the saloon doors with his spurs. Truly.

That's what I think when I think Texas. Two guns in his holsters. Basically just give me the whole episode where Sandy Cheese is explaining Texas to SpongeBob and that's what I imagine. Oh, yes. Spinning the guns around. Okay. Kid Wilson published a detailed description of what the killer might be like. His profile was so close to the truth that the prosecution team later hired him so that's kind

of like a first like this was so long ago this was kind of the first insight into like profiling before it was actually right used yeah by you know the fbi and things like that very cool um so they still had no leads so the police decided to publish copies of the postcards in the newspaper and almost immediately several people contacted authorities to say they recognized the handwriting as that of an eccentric drunkard quote-unquote and prolific correspondent named john frank hickey oh so after his arrest hickey confessed to three murders and numerous sexual assaults of children. Oh, yeah. Oh, no.

Along with Joey Joseph, he admitted to the 10 year old or the 11 year old boy, Michael Crook in New York City. And he also admitted to killing 34 year old Edwin Morey from the pharmacy like when he was 18. So in addition to that that there were several sexual assaults and um that he had admitted to as well uh hickey later explained that on october 12th 1911 he was employed as a steel plant supervisor in lakawana when he noticed seven-year-old joey playing at his father's men's furnishing store when joey was making mud puddles with a friend in the street near his house hicky motioned to them to join him he gave joey a few pennies to buy candy for himself and his friend and upon joey's return hicky abruptly told his friend that it was time for him to go home but

that joey should stay with him oh no hicky then took joey the hand, led him to an outhouse behind a saloon on Ridge Road. He then strangled Joey, sexually molested him, and then strangled him to death. He then dumped the boy's body into the outhouse pit, where he later wrote postcards describing the location. And that's where they found him. Okay. So looking back at John Frank Hickey um he suffered with debilitating alcoholism he was pretty straight-laced while sober which is why a lot of people wouldn't have pointed finger a finger at him um because he could kind of pull himself together when he wasn't drinking right he had a

clean act yeah yeah exactly but when drunk he confided to detectives so i don't know if they got him drunk or like yeah it sounds like they had to have like done shots with him in the interrogation room. Yeah. Well, clearly they didn't have profiling back then. They didn't have a lot of things going on. Things were a little different. Maybe they were like, let's get hammered while you tell us what's going on. And they were like, do you feel like tequila?

I feel like tequila. Do you feel like a crowler? I do. A crowler. Okay. So da, da, da. So when he was drunk, he confided to detectives that he harbored a secret sexual attraction for children. Awesome.

Most of his assaults were spontaneous. He said when he was drinking rum, he couldn't control himself and that they weren't planned attacks, basically. He was just attacking kids. Yes. Oh, my God. While drunk. Ugh. He was suspected of at least 12 other murders uh during the two

decades he roamed new england dozens of children went missing or were found murdered but at the same time at least two other serial murderers albert fish and peter kudzanowski were also active at the same time so got it that's terrible just the three of them fucking roaming yeah this area yeah and it doesn't even at that point you don't even know who everyone yeah who everyone's personal victims are exactly especially if they're not admitting to specifics and especially if you can't trust these people i feel like so many times they're just like yeah i did that and it's like you couldn't have done that like they did bullshit for the sake of lying just to like mess around with their brains like like red herrings yeah um okay so like i said that guy

vance mclaughlin wrote a biography on him called the postcard killer and there's this guy named robert a waters who runs a blog called kidnapping murder and mayhem dot blogspot.com that i discovered all right and he described this biography said it was well written and presents a view of blue-collar new england that is usually ignored which i thought was kind of interesting he said for instance among the working class in the victorian area era children in the northeast were required to work to help support the family and many pre-teen boys sold newspapers for money to add to the family income yeah income and they were constantly harassed by quote chicken hawks or child molesters who attempted to entice them into committing sex acts and these are the news the news boys were um like hickey's type of victim basically like

vulnerable kids that were away from their parents so that was kind of um a view like something nobody has really covered too much of right um especially because at the time they were working class and if they vanished they they vanished, you know. So somehow Hickey escaped the electric chair and instead he was convicted of second degree murder and sent to Auburn prison. Wow. Yeah. Which is wild because I feel like usually child murderers and rapists like. Right.

How do you walk out of that? I don't know. Oh, actually, yes, I do know. I'm about to tell you. Okay. I did know last night when i wrote these notes apparently class de la christine i mean listen there's sparkling wine all over this paper really struggling here okay so when jurors were interviewed as to their curious verdict as in why the hell did you let him off so easy uh one said quote would you shoot a dog because he acts this

way and i was like what the fuck does that mean but i guess they were saying the jury thought he was insane um and so they were like well he's just so beyond help that like we can't that it would be inhumane to kill someone because it is not they're not choosing to do this voluntarily this is just within their like sick nature basically like a rabid dog like he had no control which first of all i do think they probably would have shot a dog that had especially in the 1880s yeah would you shoot a dog that has killed children and rapes children yeah probably i'm guessing i just might stupid comment so yeah um that's that's weird that's just the kind of thought process but at the same time they thought he was uh too dangerous to be placed in a mental institution where he might escape or be released. So the second degree murder conviction kind of was like a purgatory, like kept him locked up, but didn't end his life.

Like a gray spot for him. Yeah. Yeah. And so that kept him locked up until he died on May 8th, 1922 at the age of 56. Yowza. And that is his terrible, terrible story. Wow. And. Did we have a horoscope for him? and did we have a horoscope yeah i have a horse horoscope horoscope um and i usually don't do them because if they're because i don't want to make

light you know i don't want to seem like i'm making light but i i'm not trying to make light but this is he's a scorpio wow so i was like maybe i'll do a geoscope and i'm like well they cover both bases so there you go it's a full circle at this point horror scope for scorpio scorpio scope correct got it you did it how strong are your passwords scorpio we know you're the zodiac's most hawkish sign but this weekend amen you're like that i'm like if that ain't right i don't know what is but this weekend as stern saturn wags a finger at messenger mercury you might want to add a couple more characters to those secret codes take extra care with anything you put into writing like an i love you note geo or like a postcard oh wow twofold well done you wild times all right and so i don't know i don't know if anyone even enjoys those but if anyone has ideas for other things they want me

to do i never know if i'm like bordering on like inappropriate with those or if they're actually entertaining or not i'm entertained but i'm also like probably thank you really fucked up in the head who knows um so, if anyone has any other things they are interested in, just shoot me a message. You could just start doing plain old geo journal entries. That's true. Today I ate three French fries. It was almost as good as the day I ate four French fries. I ghost read his journal.

Can you tell? I was going to say, this sounds more like your diary. Wait, one day when when we have a book deal can we have the uh can we do a geo journal oh that'd be pretty fun i love that just dirty paw prints everywhere and french fry grease mom spilled wine on me again i pretended i didn't like it but i licked it off when she wasn't looking so sad oh baby geo journal could be fun and then a juni journal look at look at little baby juni seeping he is really really sweet oh with the ouija pillow he's all cuddled up yeah so that's that did you get another pillow no i've had those forever oh i've only ever seen them near each other yeah i bought two or away from each other uh they're the and that's why

we drink pillows available at our shop if you're interested speaking of our shop if you would like to look there you can go to and that's why we drink dot big cartel.com or you could just go to and that's why we drink.com in general for our main website you can also check out our tour dates at and that's why we drink.com slash live where you can see all of our upcoming shows and available tickets please please please try to help us sell out as many tickets as possible because the more shows that we sell out the more venues we're allowed to go to in the future so if you help us we can help you later um you can also you can just hear the sizzle loud we're at the end you're still filling up on that probably still half of this in here yeah prowler not crowley that's a record company um oh that was geo hold on is that trapped geo do you want

to do the do you want to plug us geo Gio? Do a little plug-in? Let's hear those click-clack feet. Let's hear those click-clack feet. Look at those little dancers. Hi, happy paws. Also, you can find our social media at Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, at ATWD Podcast. We also have a Patreon at ATWD Podcast, if you'd like to search that. You can also submit your personal paranormal and

true crime stories at That's Why We Drink at gmail.com where you can submit them over to Eva and they just might be in the running for our listeners episode where we put out one on the first of every month. I think that's it. Gio is licking my hand right now. And Gio says I love you

to everyone. While you were telling those sleep paralysis stories, Juni was licking my hand and I was like thank you for coming you can tell how terrorized i am um where are we currently in the world we are we've already finished our boston shows we've all we're about to where are we where are we in the world uh i think we're we're about to go to portland i think no we're about to go to san jose think. No, we're about to go to San Jose. Oh, we're in Seattle. Wait, no, that's wrong. We're about to go to San Jose, then San Francisco, then Portland.

Wait, what date does this come out? Or Seattle, then Vancouver, then Portland. Oh, I'm in New Orleans today. Yay. Oh, February 10th. Yeah. Yeah, I'm in New Orleans. Oh, well, I hope you're having a good time at the LaLaurie Mansion.

My haunted hotel. I'll be getting a lot of mass texts in all caps from you i presume probably hopefully if you need help with someone watching geo i could just do that oh that means my mother's in town hi mama linda's here i don't know if she's listening to this maybe with me is anyone listening to this no real question um i guess that's that on that oh my god okay well we leave on tuesday i'm so this is the last time we're recording before we head on out everyone is like everyone listening right now live or not live to this but when this comes out it's like oh my god we get it you've been touring we get it talking about this for weeks and we don't care anymore and they're hearing it like

basically mid-february and we haven't even left for our mid-january tour yet oh you poor saps sorry for you guys. All right. Well, Christine, I wish our friendship well. Me too. Good luck to us. I hope our sanity and our relationship stays intact. And I hope Eva stays with us throughout all of this.

Please don't leave us, Eva. Please don't get on a plane and fly away in the middle of the night. Hopefully everyone that listens to our show or has been to our live shows in the last month have enjoyed them. We are very nervous but very excited and i guess that's it my stomach's churning as i talk about it so i need to get out of here i have to pee oh my um that being said uh i guess we'll talk to you after we've done some live shows let's do it and that's why we drink