And That's Why We Drink - E13 The Cincinnati Mobsters and a PSA for Samsung

Episode Date: April 30, 2017

Lucky number 13! Em and Christine discuss the disturbing hauntings at Bobby Mackey’s Music World and the disappearance of Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers in the jungles of panama. Turn on your Jungle GPS and get ready for what Em calls an “X-Rated Blues Clues.”

Ready? Yeah. Guess who's back? Back again. We are. Hey guys, so we're excited to announce that we partnered with this awesome company called Songfinch and they helped us make a Mother's Day gift for our mothers Linda and Renata as they're famously known what song finch does is they take your memories and create personal songs you just send in your info what you want included in the song and they will write you something really awesome. Ours came out really great. Yeah, it's so good. They actually have professional singer-songwriters that they give the information to and then they write you a personalized song.

So it makes an awesome gift. You can do anything for, for example, a wedding gift or an anniversary gift. And I love you gift. And I love you gift. I'm tired gift. Leave me the fuck alone gift i love you gift i'm tired gift leave me the fuck alone gift whatever you want thanks for the wine gift anything that pertains to you but uh i can tell you that we just listened to the song for the first time and it blew our minds it blew our goddamn minds it was so good so i'm telling you if you want to give this to anyone or write

yourself a song i don't know what you're into we don't judge we don't judge, if you want to give this to anyone or write yourself a song, I don't know what you're into. We don't judge. We don't judge. But if you want a custom-made song, Songfinch is the place to go. And they actually provided us with a promo code for all our lovely listeners. I know. So if you guys want to go on there and buy a gift for someone you love or care about or yourself, the promo code is WHYWEDRINK, all caps. And we highly recommend it.

Cannot speak more highly of this service. I'm going to write them a song right now. Yeah. You ready? Thank you. The end. Hopefully they hear it. Maybe they shouldn't.

They've probably already turned this off. Okay. Anyway, Songfinch. WHYWEDRINK, songfinch.com. Check it out. It's amazing. We're just dying a million deaths over here and cannot wait for our mothers to hear this. So what we're going to do is we're going to play for you guys the song that we recorded for our parents.

The first verse is for my mother. The second verse is for Christine's mom. Some of the stuff that is written in it you may not understand because there are some inside jokes but it's still worth hearing it's so good but we're going to play for you and for our lovely moms for mother's day surprise our song and gift to them and go wine and milkshakes Hurricanes and traffic rays Crazy happy days Wish we weren't so far away Friendship like fine wine Gets better over time You're better than wine

By that I mean sometimes Cause nothing's really better than wine 22 cats sometimes cause nothing's really better than wine 22 cats we released in the wild now there's 22 times that amount maybe

22 kids who got cat scratch fever almost 22 years by now We'd eat 22 pints Of ice cream between us And it would only take 22 days And I've got 2200 reasons

To thank you for being a mother so great. Wine and milkshakes, hurricanes and traffic rays. Crazy happy days, wish we weren't so far away. Friendship like fine wine Gets better over time You're better than wine By that I mean sometimes Cause nothing's really better than wine

Raising two kids And working till evening While earning her PhD Blasting pink on repeat on road trips She does nothing haphazardly She's a mighty comma She kicked cancer's ass She fends off robbers with bruises

No one on earth Could ever be As crazy and loving as you Wild and milkshakes hurricanes and traffic raves crazy happy days wish we were so far away friendship like fine wine gets better over time You're better than wine And by that I mean sometimes Cause nothing's really better Than wine

But sometimes moms are better Than wine But sometimes moms are better than wine. And it really was so professional. I just love it. I thought it was really good. And my own mother probably doesn't remember the reference to hurricanes, so I'm just going to let everyone know our dirty laundry. One time my mom, for Mother's Day, wanted to go paddle boarding, and we got stuck in a hurricane in the water. And it was not fun because neither of us knew what we were doing. And we had to try to wade back to shore. But the one person who went out with us ended up running back to get the car so that we could drive away from the hurricane. But until he came back, we just stood outside with paddle boards that weren't ours watching a hurricane come. And that's like one of my favorite memories of my mom. So that's why there was the word hurricane. In the same line, it says traffic raves, which is because my mom used to park the convert's why there was the word hurricane in the same line it says um traffic

raves which is because my mom used to park the convertible when there was traffic and it had like she would have the the roof down and she would blast like techno like tiesto and would like roll her shirt up and like dance and she's like oh i can dance and we were just mortified and the first time i ever met one of my best friends's parents, we drove over to her house to pick her up. And my mom just parked her car and started, like, dancing in the street. And her parents were like, oh, no, that's your new friend. And that was, like, her weird calling card that she used to do when we were younger just to mortify us probably. Wonderful.

Yeah. Anyway. Thank you again, Song Finch, for that. That was a dream come true. Really fun. So much fun. Now back to all the somberness of this podcast. Now that we got the happy stuff out of the way. Um, all right. How do we usually start this thing? What are you drinking? First of all, we never started with you asking me what i'm drinking because you never ask um i'm drinking a frappuccino from starbucks oh fancy what are you drinking i'm drinking

it better not you better not say water oh hell no do you know me i don't drink water do you drink ice in your wine uh no it's uh um a vodka tonic is it really you didn't see me make that in front of you no i really thought you were drinking water i've been waiting for you to comment on my how i poured vodka into my glass because she and i were having a conversation we were getting kind of amped yeah and so my just instinct was to reach for vodka which i never drink the wine let's go straight in i don't usually drink liquor but it was just one of those nights so So you guys are- I really thought this whole time you were drinking water and I was wondering when you

were going to get a wine glass out for us to record. Oh no. Oh no. And I was like, are you really going to go into this with water? You guys are in for a treat. Let me tell you. I'm drinking today because I got the bad news from Christine today that I am not in Gio's will.

I was pissed. It was really hard to break that news too but i assumed i asked her i was like if you die if blaze dies and if your brother dies i get him right and she said no there's other people excuse me i tried to evade the topic for a while and you kept pressuring me to answer i needed you to not beat around the bush about something that serious i mean i told her that uh my dog would go to my 12 year old sister because she doesn't know what to do with a dog. I'll take care of him. Okay, Em.

And now Em has this, like, vendetta against my 12-year-old sister, which is, like, slightly alarming to me, and I don't know how I feel. No, it's not. I had a dream that— Oh, God. I haven't even met your sister. This is why I drink. Point two.

I had a dream— I don't even want to say because your mother will stop bringing me cloud noses but i had a dream that i maybe murdered her family including the sister that i've never met and i don't know why i don't even know what she looked like in the dream because i've i don't think i've ever actually seen a close-up picture of her i think it was just a random person she's a precious angel so I think it was just a random person. Well, she's a precious angel, so... I think I just heard a random person and just put it with...

I just decided that was your sister. Oh, good. It doesn't make it better. And now I told her that my sister gets Gio before her, and now I know why she had this dream,

and I'm gonna have to put my sister in a safe house somewhere in the mountains of Austria. I have nothing against your sister. Yet. Until all of a sudden

she has Gio and I don't. I better not die in a plane crash. All right. I have facts. Oh, you do? I always do. Tell me. The most expensive wine in the world is called the Penfold Ampoule from 2004.

It's a cab, your fave. My fave. And there's only 12 in existence, and they each cost $168,000. Holy crap! Yeah. Why? I don't know. I thought it was going to be like an old wine that's been like...

My goal is to read you the fact, not the history. No, but I'm just... Because a lot of times expensive wines are 100 years old. Well, that's what I thought, but it's from 2004. I wonder why. Maybe it's got gold in it. It must be. Okay.

Milkshakes got their name from being served in bars, because originally they had whiskey in them, remember? Right, right. If the customer enjoyed the milkshake, he would shake hands with the bartender. I always thought it's because they shook it before there was a blender. Are we sure that that's real? Yeah. Wow. Okay.

I did not believe it because I was like, wouldn't it come from being shaken around? Like blended or something? Four different websites I looked at had this fact. Really? So I was like, okay. I'm still skeptical. They were like, good milkshake, sir. And then gave him a milkshake.

Maybe other people were as desperate for milkshake facts as I was, and they just made that shit up. Right. That sounds like something I would make up, right? That doesn't even make sense. Anyway, there's your fun, maybe wrong fact. I love it. Who cares? It's fun.

Anyway. All right. Well, I am ready to get into some creepiness. I'm really nervous to tell you this one. Why? Because I worked really hard on this research okay that's all i just like i worked really hard oh so you're invested so it's like a big deal can i make a request that i oh wow sure i can't say no on the air can i that i get a glass of wine before we begin oh a thousand percent okay well you got all sassy with me, Sassy the Clown. Your clown is showing.

I'm sorry, that was rude. That was so mean. I always have the Gio one, but I'm like, never. Sometimes I get desperate and I'm like, do I want to walk all the way to Albertsons? And then I'm like, I can't open that. In case anyone doesn't know what Christine's talking about, I made her her a geo wine label and put it on a wine bottle for for geo's birthday so it wasn't really for her it was for geo but it was for mommy too you don't understand how it's my prized possession and i had this dream that there was an earthquake

so i promptly removed it from my wine rack and put it like in a safe location wait can you give it to me i'll read them the back label yeah doggone it it's your birthday thanks for throwing me a bone and letting me celebrate with you i hope you know that you're pawsome oh my god i shits you not that's my favorite one have a howling good time i'll always rough you i sometimes will just read the back of that wine bottle anyway this is my literally when I got renter's insurance, I asked Blaze how much, like, it would be worth. Shut up. No, you didn't. Sorry.

So I got my wine, finished my vodka tonic. Time to go. Let's roll. Okay. This is, like, a super popular one that I think only maybe one person has said something but it's like in a blur of all the tweets we get so I think someone mentioned this but I already planned on doing it a while ago but I wanted to save it because this is our 13th episode and so unlucky 13 I wanted to do something super special um so this is one of my favorite stories but I actually didn't really know the

whole thing and you probably know about it because it's right next to Cincinnati oh it's the Bobby Mackey's music world I don't know what the hell that is really nothing oh that's like it's like a big haunted it's actually like number one haunted nightclub what and oh it sounds familiar now that you say nightclub but I don't know anything it's like a it's like a like a piano bar is it in Cincinnati it's in Kentucky it's like a like a piano bar is it in cincinnati it's in kentucky it's one of america's most haunted places interesting yes okay so it starts in 1850 there was a slaughterhouse and a meat packing warehouse that got built on the site that's now bobby mackie's um which had a basement with a well in it and this well is very important get familiar with this well i'm it's in your head. Okay. I'm absorbing the well. Good.

So in this basement of the slaughterhouse was a well. And it was used to catch all the waste from slaughtered animals, like blood and guts. Beautiful. Yummy. So this well would become known as the Portal to Hell, which I'll get into later. I don't want to be dramatic. Right. No, not at all.

So 40 years later, in the 1890s, a satanic cult started, like, taking place in the area. Oh, okay. You know, as they do. Just why not? So activities started taking place in the building, because after it being a slaughterhouse it um it like there was talk of it possibly also having a cult activity while it was a slaughterhouse or when it was already losing business but definitely by the 1890s um a bunch of people of all the occult knew that it was vacant and there was that well and already like blood and guts of animals was going there so they used it as a sacrificial area. Ugh! So ritualistic

slaughters were performed in the same well, mostly animals, although it's strongly strongly suggested that human sacrifices were also done there. Oh no. And the humans that they used were, I'm gonna say the non PC version because I'm going to say the non-PC version because I'm going off of the research, mentally handicapped children. Because they, one, would not be missed, and two, they were being sent back to the devil. It's really fucked up. I'm about to cry. That's really sad.

I know, it's really fucked up. Oh, not a good start. In 1896, there was one girl who will become a very prominent ghost in this story's future. There was a 22-year-old girl named Pearl Bryan from a small town in Indiana. And she was, I guess, wealthy and super popular and everyone knew her. It was a small town, so I guess you knew everyone. But she ended up being murdered and was in the headlines in this area so she was super popular everyone knew of her but i guess her little secret was that she was pregnant uh with her boyfriend named scott jackson oh no uh scott his little secret was that he was part of the occult.

Oh, God, Scott. Okay, so Scott and his roommate were both part of the satanic cult in the area, and unbeknownst to Pearl, because she was pregnant, um, they wanted the fetus as a sacrifice. What?! So, it was... What the fuck?! I know. I know. what so it was what the fuck i know i know um so basically they they urged her to go to cincinnati to get an abortion because he lived in ohio and um they urged her to get an abortion they ended up sedating her with like 14 grams of cocaine or some shit like that and then the scott and his

roommate were uh students at the dental school and so they were like we can just do the abortion ourselves because they have a totally grand scope of the anatomy when they're working on people's fucking mouths of the vagina and the cervix i'm sure they totally understand and so uh they operated on her using dental tools and cocaine i cannot so she ended up freaking out and being like i don't want to do this and in the middle of her she was awake oh yeah i thought you said that she said they sedated they tried to sedate her but they didn't knock her out oh so she was oh no oh no i know this is my biggest fear so she started freaking out and trying to get away and in the middle of her struggling and them still performing it on her they killed the baby well and she remember she's five months pregnant like this isn't like

like the time and so um it was a five month old baby they ended up killing the fetus and so they couldn't use it as a sacrifice like So they, like, cut into her? Yeah. With dental tools? With dental tools. I know, Gio. How did she get into that position where, did they tell her they were going to perform the abortion on her, or did they? They, I, okay, that, I don't know.

Oh, okay. But all I know is they gave her, like, a sarsaparilla drink mixed with cocaine to sedate her and then um and then that's and then they started performing she was awake and then there was a struggle they killed the baby and so either one story was that either since they got rid of the fetus they still needed a sacrifice or two to make sure that they got away with this botched abortion and they didn't want anyone to catch them they decided they were going to kill her what the fuck so they while alive used their dental tools and decapitated her no yeah they took her head off no while she's awake. Uh-uh. And, um... Literally what is wrong with these people? Uh, so anyway, they... After they decapitated her, they don't know what happened to the head.

They don't know a guarantee on what happened to the head, but her body got thrown into a field. No. Which was a mile away from the slaughterhouse, so there's stories that since they were in the occult, they probably went to the slaughterhouse afterwards, brought head with them and sacrificed the head because the head was never found are they on meth like what is happening how i don't know what is wrong with them the only reason they got away with it was because they left pearl's shoes on her feet and it was such a small town that pearl was from that the serial number on the bottom of the shoe went to a shoe company from her small town and so the guy that ran the shoe company was like oh yeah i gave them the pearls

like they knew they knew whose shoes it was and that's the only reason they got away with it when people found the body they realized it was pearl and they're like where's the head and wait how did that make them get away with it no they didn't get away with it they would have had they taken her shoes off so the only way they didn't get away like the only way the thing that caught them was the shoes and uh to to their last day they swore that they never killed her um and oh okay yeah whatever like but there were autopsy reports that said like it was such a clean cut it had to be surgically removed. Her head? Her head. And because, I guess, the way the blood splatter was, that's how they knew that she was alive.

And then, like, they kind of pieced it all together based on, like, the body of, like, the abortion happened first. There was definitely a struggle based on, like, handprints and shit like that. And the way that the head was cut off, like, I don't know anything about anything with this stuff but the autopsy report was able to confirm that she was alive when the head was when her head was getting cut off of her yeah yeah you know oh yeah i know i know so uh it said that her head was used as a ritual sacrifice in place of the baby both by the way that was his

fucking baby his His child! Oh my god. You must really love the devil. So both men were sent to the gallows to be hanged, but before their executions, they vowed to haunt the area forever. Oh, those guys are like, oh, we're gonna get... We're gonna get the land back.

Fuck you! So the trial was the last public hanging in Campbell County. Oh. Fun fact. Shit. And after the trial, the slaughterhouse fell silent campbell county oh fun fact shit and after the trial the slaughterhouse fell silent and remained empty for a while um so today the basement of bobby

mackie's is the only place that was like the original part of the original building that existed so the basement still exists where maybe her head was thrown into the well. And, you know, anything else that ever fell down there. Does the well just go into the water? Funny you ask, because I intentionally researched this in case you asked. I just, I'm trying to think where her head goes. Okay, so the well, it's like in the cement hole. Right. And, like, in the ground, it's like a hole.

There's no, like, giant well with a bucket. And, like, in the ground, it's like a hole. There's no, like, giant well with a bucket. And there's a lot of arguments about it actually being called a well because technically it was a drain that led out to the Licking River. So that all the blood and guts from the slaughterhouse would drain out into this water, which is so great to hear about in our ecosystem. But I guess other people will, like, re like re-argue uh rebuttal rebuttal yeah they would say um they would say that geo loves to argue yeah and uh so even though a lot of people say that it's a drain there's like this rebuttal that it's technically a uh or people say it's a well it's well no people say it's a well and then people will like will argue it and say

actually it's a drain because it goes straight into a river instead of like being its own right it's like like at least half the people in the world say it's a well half people say it's a drain but at the end people will argue that it's a well because it's there's like a concrete bottom like the part that used to drain out is solidified okay in which my mind it's like well then like is this thing that's just getting stacked with guts exactly is our head in there somewhere yeah i don't know i don't really know what i don't there was so many different versions of it and so many different arguments. But some say it's a well. Some say it's actually technically a drain.

But then they still call it a well. Some people have way too much time on their hands to argue these things on the internet. By the end, it just was called the Portal to Hell. Let's just go with that. And it was also called the Supernatural Vortex, which it's still called today. That's badass. I know. vortex which it's still called today that's badass i know so um today uh if you're still near the well people will hear the sound of like a deep growling and many refuse to even be near

the well for too long because they feel like something evil staring at them eventually on top of the site that was a slaughterhouse there was like a roadhouse built in the 1920s and it was turned into an inn called the Bluegrass Inn and became secretly known as a speakeasy and also had some gambling going on in there and got so popular as a speakeasy slash gambling joint that when the prohibition ended in 1933, Buck Brady officially bought the building and called it the Primrose, and it was his own mom-and-pop casino. Oh. The casino caught so much attention that Cincinnati mobsters tried to take over the... I know. There was a whole group called the Cleveland Four, and they were, like, the four main gangsters in the area that kind of controlled everyone else beneath them.

and they were like the four main gangsters in the area that kind of controlled everyone else beneath them and uh one of those like main mobsters saw how popular the primrose was getting and they wanted to buy it out from buck brady and turn into their own mobster run casino so they could keep making more money and uh like originally brady refused to sell and then violence started escalating between him and a bunch of gangsters, and there was, like, fighting and threats to customers in the parking lot. And they were saying, like, you have to go to this casino, or if you don't follow us, then, like, you're going to be in trouble. So eventually Brady sold the Primrose to the mobsters, and then he moved to Florida and committed suicide. Oh, what?

So they say that somehow he might also haunt the building because he was on the property and i was like it's connected to somehow connected to it so they think he might also haunt it sometimes that's so sad so the primrose uh then became owned by the mobsters and was renamed to be the latin quarter quarter okay it was called the latin quarter and was a very successful casino nightclub in the 50s uh during the height of it during the height of its success was the the owner's daughter's name was joanna and she was a dancer there the rough general consensus is that she was the daughter of the owner she was a dancer there and she fell in love with a singer who performed their name robert randall and they planned to run off together

but the father didn't approve and uh the owner who was also her father used his mob connections and had robert killed to keep her away from marrying him that's mean joanna found out what happened freaked out and tried to poison him that the, and tried to poison him. Her dad. Yeah. Tried to poison him. And he ended up surviving, but she didn't get to find that out because she wrote a love poem for Randall on a wall upstairs and then went to the basement next to the well, which was the performer's dressing room at the time, and she killed herself. Oh my god. So she's also, her and Pearl are now two prominent people who have died and haunt the residence.

Oh no. And when the autopsy report happened on Joanna, they found out that she, much like Pearl, was five months pregnant. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Also, fun fact, so she fell in love with a Robert Randall and then killed herself. And Bobby Macie's name is robert randall mackie oh shit yeah yeah bobby mackie is the owner of what is bobby mackie's now his real name is robert randall mackie oh my god how weird i know so they think that like

a lot of the stuff happens like she's one of the prominent ghost people see because like the name like maybe it somehow like triggers her being very active because she wants to be around or robert randall saying the name and stuff yeah it's just a theory but i mean it's a cool one it's an interesting coincidence so by 1955 the police went to start cracking down on gambling uh in town and so this was one of the businesses that they really like tried to knock out. So one night they broke in and stole all of the machines and tables and then

had like this paperwork forcing them to like leave the premises. So they ended up shutting down this casino. Jeez. Um, they also, yeah, they had paperwork to evict them. And after this,

the building became several businesses that didn't last. One of them for a while was called the hard rock cafe, which is not affiliated with the franchise now. And, uh, it was frequented by a lot of violent bikers. Oh, so definitely not what it is today.

Right. And there was like through these bikers, there was a bunch of shootouts and murders on the property. So that also added to the hauntedness of this um during this time the site became known around the area as the bloody bucket because of all the bloodshed from all the several murders that had happened throughout its history geez after the hard rock was shut down because of all the violence um in 1977 bobby mackie bought the site in 78 and turned it into a nightclub piano bar and it's been running ever since so since 78 this guy's been around so since bobby mackie's opened

the paranormal experiences have ramped up like crazy really but oh again the skeptics and just a lot of people um relate that to the caretaker of the premises named carl lawson okay so um carl also worked at the primrose so like he had been around so he knew more of the history than most people he had experienced some version of hauntings before bobby mackkey's opened yeah and he also so his experiences come off of the fact that he reopened up the well god at some point which is how the name portal of hell came out because during the initial setting up for the Bobby Mackey's opening Carl went into the basement and saw an old patch in the ground and opened it up to see what it was but my thought is if you've worked there since the fucking primrose you know what it is and don't

touch it absolutely so when he opened it up he says an evil entity had been freed and possessed him this i feel like there's a running thing with these stories lately like yeah oh let's do something stupid and be surprised when something bad happens open Let's open a portal to hell. So, um, he, after that, he says that after he, like, released this spirit, um, there was, like, all these hauntings that came out that were even stronger than ever before. He said that this possession led to a botched exorcism on him in the bar in 1994. What is a botched?

I don't know. I guess he means that, like, they just pissed it off and nothing actually came from it. And so all the stuff is still around. Just made it worse or something? I guess so. Well, he says that he's also spoken with Joanna and fought off a lot of evil spirits. And, like, since he's been possessed, he now has the, like, this clairvoyance power to speak to them. Okay.

I feel like Carl's being a little dramatic. I feel like that,'s being a little dramatic i feel like that too um fucking carl classic carl so he says that all the spirits on the property are the strongest next to the well and he says he really officially pissed them off when he tried to sprinkle holy water on the well oh and it didn't work oh no and so ever since then he regularly sees dark very angry shadow men standing behind the bar staring back at him even when others are around and they can't see anyone there um he says that he's known he was originally known by the locals as someone who talked to himself but later he ended up admitting that he was having conversations with joanna pearl and several bikers and mobsters oh my god

um after he admitted it a bunch of like patrons from the bar also start opening up and saying oh i thought i saw something too or oh geez so people thought he was crazy because he had all these stories saying he was possessed and then all these people ended up being like you're kind of on to something me too and uh same and bobby mackie to this day doesn't believe in these ghosts like has never experienced anything but so many people have approached him that he has to believe it it's just for some reason they won't touch him and like even his wife has called out like he i guess was at dinner one night with his wife i was like this is bullshit and then his wife was like actually i've seen some shit there but what i have left are a whole page of bullet

points on different paranormal accounts oh geez so i'm just gonna run them off and if you want to stop me no just go go go there's a there's there's a lot of words i got a box of wine and i'm okay but don't forget to gasp because otherwise we don't get viewers all right listen i know my we know what they're here for i know my guests are fueling this podcast um all right so i also didn't rank them in like least scary to most scary which i should have done so it's kind of a jumble so sometimes i'm gonna go and sometimes you're gonna be like oh interesting yeah i can be like oh that's really neat i guess insert i like, oh, that's really neat, I guess. Insert eye roll. Oh, yeah, because that's exactly how I talk. Okay, so the first one I have is that near the well, there's a bunch of loud phantom

footsteps that come from nowhere. Another thing is people say that they're overcome by a scent of roses, which apparently was the smell of the perfume that Joanna wore. Oh. So a lot of people, especially if you don't believe then when you're by yourself all of a sudden you'll be in a room and they'll smell like there's a hundred roses in there there's a mirror where ghosts will be there until you turn around and then they're gone it's like you'll see people standing behind you uh there's a room in the basement where evil faces

will just appear on the walls okay i don't like that at all like they'll just melt into the wall um historic photos um this is like this should have been its own fact away from this list but i added it in by accident please hold can you imagine if you just put in like that elevator music every time he walked in this episode it would be a whole hour of elevator music yeah it'd be three hours long this episode um okay so historic photos match witnesses descriptions of different ghosts that they've seen so some people have said they've seen pearl and they described the dress and the shoes to a t um there are certain hot spots in the club including the spotlight room and the catwalk that's over the stage the well the basement obviously the old china room and the mechanical bull area which sounds like

i would be that fucking ghost i would be hanging out you'd be riding the mechanical yeah oh yeah um the club manager claims that on occasion on several occasions she would go through the club and make sure everything was turned off and closed down for the night but then later when she'd come into the room again the bar lights were on the front doors were unlocked and the jukebox would be playing this song called the anniversary waltz even though the jukebox was unplugged and did not contain that song no yeah what the fuck uh i don't know what's so special about that song but i guess it should have been someone's maybe it was someone's like secret song or like the their relationship maybe it was joanna's relationship oh yeah

maybe they song well she was a dancer too maybe they danced to that song what's it called the anniversary waltz also there they have seen the entity of pearl which is an apparition of a headless woman in early 1900s dress the entity of Buck Brady, who sold the primrose to the mobsters. I'd rather see Buck. The entity of a little boy who there's, like, no history about him except for the fact that in, like, a document they found, they, like, wrote down, like, all the people that the mobsters had killed at some point. And he was, like, always running around the house, like, running around the building when it was a casino and annoyed the mobsters, so they threw him down the stairs. That's not funny!

I know, it's, like, nervous laughter. They killed the little boy? They just, like, were like, fuck you, and just kicked him down the stairs. The entity of a little girl who lives in the basement and throw rocks at people. Oh, that would be me as a ghost. You would throw rocks at people? Well, just for fun. If someone killed me yeah that's true the entity of joanna uh so like the smell of roses follows her she also picks on pregnant women and by picks i think the word taunt is probably more appropriate because she is also correlated with a lot of pregnant women going into that

casino feeling like they got punched in the stomach and then having miscarriages wait are you serious i guess if she couldn't have her kid no one can that is so fucked up if you're pregnant and you go to bobby mackie's look out don't do that there's also been uh reports of the entity of scott jackson's roommate the one who helped perform the abortion slash decapitation. Ooh, gives me chills. A psychic has been there. Several psychics have been there. I'm sure.

But one psychic has seen Scott Jackson yelling at a headless Pearl, screaming that everything's her fault. And Pearl, she also saw on that same night, Pearl holding her head, screaming, my head, my head, stop. Which means, like, if that's accurate, that's what she was fucking saying when they were literally cutting her head off my head my head stop which means like if that's accurate that's what she was fucking saying when they were literally cutting her head off while she was awake m i don't like that my head my head that would be like like how that's literally a sentence i imagine i would never have to say if it came out of my body i would feel i mean i'd probably be

feeling a bunch of things but i would would just, I don't know. Let's remember that my brother's at Coachella, my boyfriend's at work until four in the morning. So you're just not only triangulating where you live, but letting everyone know you're alone. Okay, but by the time this comes out, I have an alarm system, and my boyfriend will be here. Great. And I have a gigantic German Shepherd rottweiler mix stay away sorry go on water faucets and light switches turn on and off by themselves people report being poked touched slapped scratched and having their hair pulled uh in response to that their bodies

have also shown phantom handprints and scratches on them. And everywhere you go, you feel like you're being stared at. Furniture and objects move. There's banging on the walls. There's screaming. There's evil laughing. There are shadow people,

mists, and balls of light. A lot of people who've gone in for investigations have caught some really cool EVPs. I saw the episode of this in on ghost adventures and this isn't something i probably should have researched this because i might be talking about a different episode so whoops i'll just i'll look it up but they they use this thing called the spirit box where essentially it's a lot of radio frequencies the machine's going through all these frequencies really fast.

So it can pick up on, right on voices that we can't hear in this world. Like it goes beyond the wavelengths that we're able to hear. And so it translates words out of the spirit box. There's like a built in dictionary. And so if someone's talking and you go through these frequencies really quickly, then in theory we can hear what they're saying and the dictionary will be able to translate it so it's like

microsoft sam voice comes out and tells you oh oh yeah i had that on my phone one time and it scared me so bad i had to delete it oh i we well we used it when i used to do investigations it's creepy because it'll say like it because it'll like say those words in the microsoft sam voice and it'll be like yeah it'll be like dead dead. Or it's like, porridge, porridge, porridge. I'm like, why? Those are really fucked up, weird words. So they were contacting a bunch of mobsters, or they thought they were, and they ended up having contact with this victim who was killed by mobsters.

And they ended up saying, how did you die and it kept saying dig oh and they were like did you have to dig like what were you digging oh no and they and he said the spirit box said grave no no no no and they're like did you have to like did you have to dig a grave like whose grave were you digging and the word the spirit box came out said said mine. And so, and then they ended up saying like, at two different times, one word came out and it said gun and the other one said point. And they were like, were you held at gunpoint to dig your own grave?

And so like, and then they went back later and found out that someone actually like, they dragged them out to the desert, which was another part that I forgot to mention. They said something about like walking, walking, walking, desert. So like these mobsters dragged him out, made him dig his own grave, and then killed him and put him in the grave.

That was, like, a really... What the fuck? It, like, was just, like, an interesting... I think that was Bobby Mackey's, but it also might have not. But... What desert? Because we're, like, many states away from any desert. That's my only question.

It might have been just, like, a field or some, like, patch of, like, unknown dirt. It was also in the 40s or 50s. So, like, maybe it wasn't this episode. But I heard mobsters and I heard ghost adventures and that, like, showed up in my head. I just Googled the place and they've been there. This one was kind of cool. There was a loud band that annoyed the ghosts. And so a lot of things started getting a loud band that annoyed the ghosts.

And so a lot of things started getting thrown at the crowd from the ceiling. Like there was like, what? Like no one was up there, but things were getting thrown at the crowd. And at the same time, a bunch of people started like getting weird alerts on their phones saying that they had voicemails from like a name that like there was no name. It was just like blank, like not even a unknown. It was just, like, blank. Like, not even an unknown. It was just blank. And a bunch of people got these voicemails, and there were these disembodied female voices saying, make the band leave. It's, like, super fucked up.

And so they ended up sending those voicemails into different, like, investigation groups. Are you kidding me? No. That's so fucked up. Also, so technologically savvy on when i did one of my investigations i had to teach a ghost what a phone was so the fact that like these guys got it is pretty cool they've also had um in men's restrooms there has been a sense of suffocating heat where you can't breathe enough to get out of there there's also been a flying trash can like literally

trash is being thrown at people. There's a man with a handlebar mustache that will show up when you're alone in the stalls and scream, die, die. Oh, my God. That's terrifying. People have also sensed being followed home by ghosts. One person even got pushed in the bathroom and tried to file a police report claiming he got his ass kicked by a ghost that looked like a cowboy in the men's bathroom and everyone was like we don't know how to press charges on a fucking ghost but but so many people were getting attacked by this cowboy ghost that now it's on their like signs that say they actually have a sign that says we are not like liable. Yeah. We're not like at liability for whatever happens to you.

And on the poster, the picture of like a cowboy ghost. Um, why does anyone go here? I don't know. I would, it's a really popular bar. I'm for sure going there this summer.

So, uh, Bob Mackey's wife, Janet, uh, said that she has seen ghosts and felt overwhelming presences and smell Joanna's, uh,

like Rose aroma. that she has seen ghosts and felt overwhelming presences and smelled joanna's uh like rose aroma and she also had a super scary encounter in the basement where she was suddenly overcome by the scent of roses and then felt something like swirl around her like all of a sudden she got super disoriented and um something grabbed her by the waist picked her up and threw her back down the stairs like she felt scared so she tried to go up and someone grabbed her by the waist, picked her up and threw her back down the stairs. Like she felt scared. So she tried to go up and someone grabbed her. Like that one fear we all fucking have as children when you turn off the lights and have to go upstairs.

Run up the stairs. Literally that shit actually happened to her. Someone grabbed her by the waist, picked her up, threw her back down the stairs. And when she tried to get away from it, she finally got to the top of the stairs and there was this pressure behind her that was like pulling her down the stairs so she couldn't get up and when she looked back she couldn't see anything because it was pitch black but she heard a voice screaming in her ear get the fuck out get out get out get out but like menacingly not like someone's saying like get like get out i don't know like because if it's pulling you back in and then it's like that's just a fuck with you honestly i would divorce bobby so fast well get this after

that and she fun fact was also five months pregnant get the fuck out of here and ever since then she does not go anywhere without like someone else being there about 40 different spirits have been identified in total so far um by visitors staff and psychics any investigators like all combined there's been about 40 different people that people have contacted on ghost adventures alone there were three different accounts that were worth mentioning where when they were sitting in the basement next to the well a bunch of people started getting like disgustingly sick and lightheaded and if like the longer they stayed there the worse they got so everyone eventually had to go because they were like like violently ill oh my god um the second

thing is that they asked the spirit joanna if she enjoyed the live music since it's a bar and she was a dancer and all that so they assumed let's talk about music and this is like the clearest evp that bobby Bobby Mackey's has ever gotten, and I guess they have it on their website now, or they have it somewhere in the bar for people to hear on their own. But, like, clear as day, you can hear a girl in, like, an old-timey southern accent say, I love it when the band plays. What?

But you can hear it, like, crystal clear. Oh, I just got goosebumps. The last thing that happened to them is they were doing an evp session trying to contact scott jackson the guy that did the abortion um don't talk to him and so well they did it right by the well where he would have done something with either the fetus or pearl's head god and so they sprayed holy water on the well and as they were doing that one of the investigators got like super violently shoved into a wall and when they asked him later um like he got shoved into a wall and then held there and

he couldn't get away and they watched him like not be able to move but he was also pressed up against the wall in a way where he couldn't have been faking it like you could see like the the shirt imprints like his shirt being ridden up like someone was holding it up nope um and he said right before it happened he felt like his shoulder was on fire and then he got slammed into the wall before he could say anything fabulous um and that's it fucking great but that's the bobby mackie's music house i forget the other half of it bobby mackick bobby unique new york unique new york bobby mackie's music world world yes honky tonk nightclub cool that's that that is fucking crazy that's why i drink that's why i left ohio that's why

i'm gonna have terrible dreams tonight perfect all. All right. Now, before we get into this. Yes, ma'am. I'm going to warn everyone because you apparently I listen, the last couple ones, you were very good about keeping it somehow lighthearted, even though it was murder. But I get here and all of a sudden, Christine today, I showed up at the house and she looked fucked up. And I was like, what happened? And I guess these stories really got to her. I just, it's not, it's, the weird thing is it's not even one that

is like as violent or traumatic as some of the other stories I've done. But somehow it just got so into my head, and I researched it right before I got here, and I took Gio for a walk, and while I was walking, I couldn't get it out of my head, and it really fucked me up.

I don't know. I think it's because it's, well, I'm going to tell you, but the girls who were involved are our age, and when this happened, they were literally our age, and so somehow I put myself in their age and so sometimes somehow like i put myself in their shoes and i was like no this upsets me deeply well it's sort of like the elizabeth smart

where it like right really gets into my head um i'm gonna shut this door because i just can't i keep looking back because i'm a psychopath and i'm convinced that everywhere there's an open door someone's gonna kill me perfect i'm really insane so let's an open door, someone's going to kill me. Perfect. I'm really insane. So let's all buckle up for this ride together that Christine's going to put us on. All the way to hell. Oh, God. Okay. I'm going to tell you about the deaths of Chris Kremers and Lisanne Froon. Lisanne?anne lisanne frun i don't know either of them so you

don't know them you can call them whatever you want they are dutch so i don't entirely know how to pronounce their pronounce their names but chris kremer's and lisanne lisanne frun okay already so lisanne frun was 22 uh she was described as aspiring, optimistic, intelligent. She was a volleyball player. Chris, K-R-I-S, she was described as open, creative, responsible, and she was 21 at the time. They were good friends. They grew up in Amherst Fort in the Netherlands. And Lisanne had just graduated in applied sciences and Chris had just completed

her studies in cultural social education and so they decided they were going to take a trip to Panama to celebrate their graduation and they saved up money for six months for their trip to Panama together they wanted to go and learn Spanish and also do something of significance for the locals, so volunteering with children and that kind of thing. So it was like a fun trip, but they also wanted to, you know, make it sort of a volunteer trip.

So they arrived in Panama for their six-week vacation on March 15, 2014. So they were, what, 22 in 2014. Aw, so was I. Yeah, exactly. So they toured Panama for two weeks before arriving in Boquete on March 29 to begin volunteer work with children for a month. They were living with a host family, and on April 1st,

they went on a hike around 11 a.m. in the forest that's around the Baru volcano. They were accompanied by the host family's dog, Blue. So they wrote on Facebook that they intended to walk around Bokete. They also had brunch with two young men before they went on the trail, and then they took off with the dog. So their host family became alarmed when their dog, Blue, returned home that night

without, alone. Oh, shit. Alone without the girls. Like Lassie. Yeah. Lisanne's parents stopped receiving messages from her via WhatsApp, which is how she was contacting her family. So they got a little worried.

On April 2nd, which was the next day, the two girls had arranged an appointment to meet with their tour guide at 8 a.m. to guide them on the trails, but they didn't show up. So he and a young woman named eileen from germany went to the police station and said um you know we don't know where they are their host family doesn't know where they are um and the next day uh the it was april 3rd and the sistema nacional de protección civil all right you know pretty well done sena proc is the sena proc abbreviation began uh aerial searches over the forest around 8 a.m so local tribes and farmers um in the area had also started

like looking for them so they had people on the ground they had aerial searches going on april 6th um the parents of the two girls flew into Panama with special forces and dog units, detectives from the Netherlands. They were going to do a full-scale search of the forest for 10 days. They did their full 10-day search, but despite their efforts, they did not find the girls. The parents were offering a $30, dollar reward for anyone who could help find them but no luck um about 10 weeks later so it was like two and a half months later um a nagobi woman who's like a local native uh turned in a backpack to the authorities um she said she found it near her rice paddy while she was working. It was near her village on a riverbank. They determined that it was Lisanne's blue backpack.

They opened up the backpack and found two pairs of cheap sunglasses, $83 in cash, Lisanne's passport, and a water bottle. They also found her Canon PowerShot camera, two of her bras, Lisanne's Samsung Galaxy, and Chris's iPhone 4. Everything was well packaged, dry, left in good condition. So on the phone, they went through their logs and realized that the young women had tried to get in contact with police, both in Panama and the Netherlands, during the time that they were missing, which confirmed that something had happened, obviously. They discovered logs of repeated attempts to call emergency services on both of their phones. The first distress call had been made just hours after beginning their hike on Chris's iPhone at 4.39 p.m.

Then shortly after, they tried on Lisanne's Samsung Galaxy at 4.51. None of the calls had gone through because of poor reception. One 911 call attempt on April 3rd lasted about a second before it broke up because of lack of service. You would think, like, Forrest is, like, the place to have reception, because... But there's no cell towers. Put one there. I mean, they should put one there, but... I feel like, like, the places where you're most likely to get lost and have no one there,

your phone should at least be able to work. But there's so few people there, you know. But yeah. It's just something for them to consider, I guess, at Verizon or wherever you are. This is our call to the cell service. This is our PSA to all phone towers. Yeah. Okay.

The first calls were made on April 1st, which is the day their hike began. Several more were made on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th of April. So they were alive for multiple days? Mm-hmm. And then the Galaxy's battery died on the 5th of April. That's a long fucking battery. Well, if you turn it off.

They kept powering them on and off. Oh. To preserve battery. I was going to say, wow, Samsung. Do it. Maybe I'll buy a Samsung. Oh, wow. This is actually a PSA for Samsung.

Please sponsor us. Can you imagine? Chris's iPhone wouldn't make any more calls, but it was intermittently turned on to search for reception. After April 6th, multiple false attempts to enter a PIN were entered into the iPhone. Oh, so at that point it suggested that

someone else had their phone? One report showed that between the 7th and 10th of April there were 77 emergency call attempts from the iPhone. So the thought is that

something happened to Chris and Lisanne got her phone and didn't know the oh okay but um the iphone was last turned on also how good of friends are you really if you don't know each other's passcode fair point i don't know yours though if we don't have one if we went on a hike i don't have one i do what's yours say it on the air no what is it i'm always saying my private information on the air. Wait, just put the elevator music on. Alright, we're back. I just have this propensity to tell everyone everything about me.

I don't know why. Whatever it takes for them to love me. I guess it's because if we ever go on a hike... We will never. Guys, if I ever go on a hike. We will never. Guys, if I ever go on a hike, that's when you immediately call the services. Because I'm not doing that on my own free will. If you see some sort of Snapchat of Em and me in a mountain area, please call 911. If you see me outdoors, call the police.

Immediately. And you guys know where to find me because Christine has definitely described where she lives well enough. Right. Just use all my triangulated locations just be like somewhere near house of pies start there she's probably getting a coffee and going to house with pies uh okay so the iphone was last turned on on april 11th which remember they went missing on the 1st. Okay. On April 11th at 10.51, turned off after an hour for the last time. Next, they went through Lisanne's camera. Oh, goodness. The photo started on April 1st and showed the young women

taking a trail at the overlook of the Continental Divide. The picture you will never see of me and Christine, by the way. It's Emma and me at the Cont of the continental divide um the picture you will never see of me and christine by the way it's emin me at the continental divide in our hiking shoes that's literally code for sos send the chopper oh absolutely we should have like a code word where if it's like want to go hiking that you have purely because i was i just moved to california I hiked the Hollywood sign just because, like, you have to at least once. I did not. Don't. I did it for both of us, and I will never do it again.

That was hell. I won't do it. So if you even see me by the Hollywood sign, just call someone. And our new distress signal, if I call you and I say, want to go for a hike? Got it. Call 911. Same. Same. All right, great. distress signal if i call you and i say want to go for a hike got it call 9-1-1 same same all right great um if i call you and say i don't love geo call call anyone oh i will probably just have a

heart attack on the spot um okay so they went through her camera um it's really fucked because all the photos are on the internet um and there's all these really sweet photos of the two girls they're like young 22 they're taking like photos of each other standing on this like cliff and they're adorable and they took one selfie together and they're on this hike right okay um and then those photos taken on the first there was nothing unusual it was just you know them taking she had a cannon it was like a nice camera. And so she was taking photos of their hike. But the camera was not used again for another week. So on April 8th, more photos were taken.

It was used to take 90 flash photos between 1 a.m. and 4 a.m. Oh, no. What's on them? At a rate of a photo every two minutes. Most of the 90 photos were taken deep in the jungle and in almost complete darkness. A few photos show that they were possibly near a river or a ravine of some

sort. Some photos show a twig with plastic bags and candy wrappers on top of a rock. Ew, that's like Blair Witch shit. It is. It's very Blair. I mean, they have the photos online. It's very Blair Witchy. Like, it's creepy um another photo shows what looks like toilet paper and a mirror on another rock um another shows the back of chris's head with what looks like blood on on her temple this is for sure

just like the sequel to blair witch no one has been able to decipher what the photos mean um the discovery of the backpack uh set off like a whole new wave of searches obviously because they found all these photos and call logs and they were like shit something really happened so they went on another search um two nagobi women uh from the area discovered the jean shorts uh that chris had been wearing um They found them zipped and neatly folded on a rock. It's so much creepier than it being, like, in a pile. Just strewn into the river, exactly. Because at least you can, like, guess what's going on there.

Exactly. It's more mysterious that things look okay. Zippered and folded. So they found that a few kilometers away from where the backpack was discovered. Two months later, even closer to where the backpack was discovered, they found a boot with a foot inside of it. Shut the fuck up. And a pelvis bone.

Oh my god, was it theirs? Behind a tree. Was it theirs? In a short time span, about 33 bones were discovered. Why weren't you answering? Long distances apart from each other from the same riverbank. DNA testing in the Netherlands confirmed that they were the bones

of Lisanne and Chris. Ah! Of the 33 bones discovered, 28 were those of Lisanne's left foot. 28 of them were of her foot? Mm-hmm. Wait, and this was both of them? This was, like, both of their bones

were somehow found? Yeah, it was uh chris's pelvis i believe and lison's foot she's better she gets a whole fucking 30 bones it's fine is that better or worse i feel like that's probably where's the rest of the other one i mean that means there's more of her bones that are missing well it's just in a river bank so it was all in the water they found it well does that mean then that probably who is the one that only had one bone or the pelvic bone um chris was there a chance i mean she went first because less of her shit was able to be found maybe like they got washed away but you could find more of the other one but it was only from

one part of her body it was literally just from the foot so what the fuck is this all right it gets worse okay it doesn't get worse but this is what fucked me up um so the boot that they found was a product from a dutch company that still had the foot and ankle uh um like skin and all like just a full flip in the sock within the boot. Aw. The pelvis bone. With the sock? Mm-hmm. The pelvis bone belonged to Chris. That's some saw shit. It has also been noted that while Lisan's bones... I keep changing the way I pronounce her name because she's Dutch.

I don't think it's Lisan. It's not like she's going to contact you and tell you what her name is. Oh, Ann. I didn't mean to bring it there. Lisan's bones still had some skin attached to them. I know you were asking, so I wanted to tell you. Oh, my God, yeah. How much?

Chris's bones appeared to have been bleached. Oh, what? Okay. Bleached bones? They're already white. So that's where, like, the basic information goes. So then I started to read, like, more investigative reports, and they had some forensic investigators weigh in on this, and it was really interesting to read about what may have happened. Here's the thing.

Tell me the thing. It's pretty much determined that they got lost and died of the element starvation what fucking natural element has your foot with the sock still on it here we go i'm glad you asked m earth wind or fire okay so many of those who choose to believe that chris and lisanne were murdered point to the fact they didn't leave behind any obvious goodbye messages to loved ones as people stranded in the wilderness often do, which is so sad that they already have a protocol for what people do when they're stranded in the wilderness and die. Do you want to just talk about that? Yeah.

Maybe if we had some cellular towers up there, we wouldn't have to worry about this. Thank you, Em. How old am I that I said cellular? Oh, I didn't even notice. Okay. Other observers, however, have countered this by saying that clearly the women were concerned about conserving their phone batteries, or they were victims of some sort of crisis that didn't leave time for them to leave a message for their family. a message for their family. A pattern of regularly timed daily signal checks made with the iPhone ceases on April 6th, leading to speculation that an accident or other incident that day left Chris's iPhone with Lisanne, but she didn't know the pin, so she couldn't open it, which is why there

were so many attempts to open the phone, which is sad because that means something happened to Chris and, you know, Lisanne was left with her phone. However, new evidence does indicate that at least one of the women did try to leave a record behind. Yeah, with the pictures. It's true there are no written messages in the form of text or SMS, but the images left on her Canon camera could speak volumes. So it's so sad.

Okay, the photos, people have like analyzed this forensically and otherwise and psychologically. The photos say that the women were behaving rationally and intelligently using whatever they had available to signal rescuers. So, for example, one of those photos I mentioned had a direction marker made of sticks and orange plastic that they had laid out on a big boulder, so it was like a direction marker. There was also a picture where you could see that they had used a roll of tissue paper, or I'm sorry, like bathroom tissue to spell something out, like it could have been an arrow or an SOS on a boulder.

And then in the same photo, you can see a mirror in the middle, which people think they were using to reflect sunlight to try and attract like aerial, like helicopters or anybody who could be looking from above. If one of them had been injured or deceased, it was probably Chris because of that photo that they took of her head being bloodied. And there was like blood matting in her hair. There was a wilderness expert who said uh a possible fatal injury to chris might be the reason the

strange night pictures had been taken in the first place um because this is so sad uh because he thinks there was heavy rain that night or on those days um and he thinks that it's possible that the heavy rain was threatening to sweep, um, Chris's body away. And so she had taken photos of exactly where everything was. And there are photos where you can look down a hill. And if you like enhance the image,

there's something down there and it looks like it could be a body. So her friend was just like taking pictures off and right. Instead of trying to like save her friend. No, her friend had died. They think if she had died that she was just like taking pictures off and right instead of trying to like save her friend no her friend had died oh it was already dead if she had died that i thought it was just like bye christine catch you later no it was like hold on like smile here right right no let me get a landscape shot they were saying um that if she had died they think she was trying to take images of where it happened so that if she had made it back to

camp that she could find her way back to the body or if she passed away also that anyone who found her camera would be able to find the body based on the photos which is so sad um i like to think i would be that savvy savvy after nine days of eating. I'd be a fucking nightmare though. I'd be dead. I would a thousand percent be dead. I'd be dead. I would so be dead. This is why we don't go hiking.

This is exactly why we don't. Because a snake would have bitten my ass five minutes in and I'd be like, this is how I go. I would have literally broken. Christine dragged my 200 pound body to a hospital because a snake fucking bit me three seconds out being outside and then i would have just cried and not done anything productive like you would have just stood there i'm sorry this is just where we are now i would have snapchatted a landscape shot and said this is all i can do for you okay so do these like analytical people have an explanation for the fucking foot in the shoe? So the photos look to be made to mark the place where she left her friend in case she had to find her way back or in case someone else found the camera.

Lisanne's foot showed fractures that would have been caused by a fall from a high place. Mm-hmm. Well, the foot thing... What, her foot just fucking fractured so badly it fell off? No, it's just... They found random pieces of her body. Not all of them were her foot. There were pieces of her foot.

This is... I, like, hear everything you're saying. It's just body parts. They found body parts. But where did this come from? Did a bear bite it off? They were in the... Was there, like, a witch?

Like, a bruja? They were in the river. I refuse to believe feces fall off after a little bit in water. So, I mean, to be fair, many of their bones were scattered through the riverbank, including the boot with part of her foot in it. I know, but your body doesn't deteriorate that fast, does it? But the reason... Because it was know, but something, your body doesn't deteriorate that fast, does it? But the reason, okay. Because it was bleached or something, right? But the reason, okay,

so the woman who actually created bones, who's a forensic anthropologist, I don't want to say the wrong title, but she's a forensic professional. So she did some research on the case and said that in Panama, in that area, the extreme humidity the extreme rain like they i mean it's in the jungle like it's they were literally hiking in the jungle

and their bodies were in a river for months and like on and she said uh the way that chris's body if it had been thrown on that riverbed or whatever, the sun would have been strong enough to completely bleach your bones. I've never been in heat that bad. That's, like, so impossible for me to believe. But, I mean, there's places like that. But, I mean, if your bones, like, for example. I've also never been in a jungle. But if you lay, like, something out for months on end in the sun, like.

Right, I know. Something's going to happen. I mean, it's months that they found, until they found their bodies. Yuck. And then the other body was in the river and in intense humidity. And she said that the bodies decompose extremely quickly because of the humidity, the bacteria. She said that the, like, in the jungle, there's a whole new, you know, array of creatures, like bacteria and animals right fish mammals

everything and so everything that would have like come in on their bodies would have just demolished their whole skeleton so i mean and it was months that they were in there so okay they found a boot and it had some of the bones in it and of course the sock was still in it because it's like they found the leftover boot and there was pieces of a sock in it you know it's not like that weird this just sounds like x-rated blues clues of just like what the fuck is going on with like like no one's giving me a direct answer about this foot and it's making me so mad but if you think about it you find pieces of body parts and it's like rubber on a shoe won't disintegrate as quickly as your skin will i know but i see the thing is i've just watched so many horrible gory

movies that unless your foot is sawed off i've never heard of another way that a foot just falls off of a body or just says if your pelvis falls off like your foot can fall off i i know you're right i'm just like it's like something I've never had to think about. Remember last week when we talked about Carl Tunsler and you were like, her head would have fallen off in a minute. See? Don't use my words against me. I'm just saying. Okay.

Anyway, so they did an autopsy and they found out that Lisanne's foot had fractures that could only have been caused by a fall from a high place. So the main theory is that there are a lot of, they call them monkey bridges. They're the bridges that natives use to cross, like indigenous people use to cross like big ravines or riverbanks. And they're... The thing that Shrek and Donkey had to do yeah exactly they're like the rope and you climb across and they're extremely difficult to navigate and especially if you haven't had food in 10 days you know I mean you're gonna struggle the theory is that um she fell off like broke her foot knew she wasn't going to be able to get out by herself tried again

desperately for an hour to call 9-1-1 wasn't able to found her way into one of these like there were these abandoned native huts um passed away and like the remains of her body were swept away by the rain and ended up in the riverbank and her friend the theory is that her friend chris had already passed away and the reason the jean shorts uh were placed so a lot of people say well why would they have been folded and left on a boulder um okay so while who's like a an expert on this whole um like survivalist he studies like survivalism in um these kind of situations uh his idea is that the shorts might have been placed at that juncture as a marking so her friend had passed away or whatever and she used them as

like a marking to be like i've been here and try to find her way out this girl had to be like raised by like bear grills to just seriously just be like oh yeah like if you died my first thought wouldn't be take your pants off. Or take your clothes out of your backpack and use them as markers. I mean, I would be dead, but I'm just saying I would not be that smart either. I would have just been like, see ya.

Yeah, he said that he's encountered that before in similar Lost Tiger scenarios where people will use clothing to mark. Because if they had been wandering around... Could she have used the foot as a marker? I don't think so, because how would she have gotten anywhere? That's true. But I think...

I'm just desperate for more answers. I think the... So, like, for example, well, they'd been walking around for 10 days. So they couldn't find their way out. So, like, his thought is thought is oh they used certain pieces as markers and the another theory is that she took a bunch of photos of where they were to be like we've been here right right now i get it to like map out where they've walked and where they've been um so yeah if she had if she had injured her foot and then gotten down that trail, um, the iPhone turning on could have been her final effort to get, you know, some kind of assistance out to her, uh, knowing she wouldn't be able to get out on her own.

And then, um, that's it. They just found their remains and, uh, they never made it out but the fact that they were in there for like 10 11 days trying like trying so hard and that's literally a week and a half leaving markers day three i'd be like i'm done no food you know i mean i wonder what she ate stay out i don't know they i mean awful. It's just awful. It, like, really upsets me because they were, like, they were 20-something. They were there to, like, volunteer to help children. And then they go on, it was supposed to be a three-hour hike.

And they ended up both dying of the ailments. I mean, and the one girl, the one who survived longer, theoretically, was an athlete. And so they think, like, maybe she was able to, like, climb that bridge better or stay, you know, more. Yeah, my ass would have seen the bridge and I'd be like, anything else. Like, I'll find another way. And we would have sat down and been like, well, this is it. We would look at the bridge and be like, that's cute, God. Try again.

LOL. LOL. We would have eaten all the mushrooms hoping they were poisonous. I know. But yeah, so it's very, very, very, very sad. Like in a really grim way, the cops had to be really relieved that it had to have been the easiest search ever for them when they found the first clue.

They were like, oh, we'll just follow the clues. The backpack? Yeah. You're right. It was very much like a... They had to be like, oh, well, this isn't hard. Like all they had to do was find the first step. But they they did they spent 10 days searching the forest before they even found the backpack because 10 days earlier well the other thing is that the jungle it's like massive and if you go even past like a little bit off the trail you end

up in this and the other theory they had was that they were trying to follow down river which like you learn in survival techniques like to follow downstream right but they said that in this case if you follow downstream you end up just going deeper and deeper into like jungle that's super fucked up so one of their thoughts was that they tried to follow the stream because they were fucking smart intelligent women and got too far down and tried to get back up and tried to climb across those bridges and fell. It's just really sad. You would think in 2017, every phone would have like an emergency button that like, whether or not we're supposed to know it's there, like the CIA, you know, the CIA has it. They could have found them if they were important enough. There should be like a, like a giant red button that like, you can only press if it's, like,

a dire fucking emergency, and they can find you anywhere in the world. I mean, they're also from Holland and in Panama, so I don't think the CIA is involved at all. But, like, maybe whatever the Netherlands equivalent of the CIA. I'm just saying, we're in America, and if we got stuck in a jungle, I would still be fucked. Yeah. So, that's a good feeling to know. And if we got stuck in the Santa, I would still be fucked. Yeah. So that's a good feeling to know. And if we got stuck in the Santa Monica Mountains, we'd be fucked.

What do you mean the jungle? I literally got lost in the Hollywood Hills in my car. Oh, absolutely. Anyway, there should be like a jungle GPS where it's like, turn right at this big fucking tree. And then like if it were like ways with the little cop symbol i'd be like there's a lion 50 feet ahead of you oh look out and then you could like be like no it's not there anymore this story really fucked me up i don't know why it's just like thinking of these girls being lost and i think what fucks me up about it is that they spent 10 days like fighting

so hard to survive the the one that survived the longest her parents must have been really fucking proud when they broke down and analyzed everything she did they must have been like at least she fought her way to the death like a blaze of glory but at the same time there's been a lot of criticism that the original searches they did were not thorough and were not and they would have found her if they had done so she was alive while they were searching for days and days and days they searched for 10 days and she was alive that whole time and they weren't able to find her and a lot of people criticize like law enforcement that kind of thing for like not doing a thorough search and not following you know not following the leads closely enough so it's also kind of like fucked up that she was alive that whole time and they could have found her it's not like they fell

off a cliff and oh eventually they'd find her body it was like the whole time, and they could have found her. It's not like they fell off a cliff and, oh, eventually they'd find her body. It was like the whole ten days they were searching, she was alive. But, like, oh, and then after she passed away, they ended up finding all the evidence the day after. So it was like they were a day late. I mean, that's fucked up. It's also like in the Elizabeth Smart case because my friend Ellen, who listens to us, or at least her fiancé does, she's one of my best friends, but she's also, like, a huge scaredy cat. Oh. So I know that her fiancé listens.

So hi to both of them. She wrote me a while ago and said, I don't know if Christine has heard this, but when Elizabeth Smart was first kidnapped and they were doing a search party for her, she could hear her uncle's voice calling her name and she was too scared to call back. Yes. Yes. I forgot about that fact, but I remember hearing that in the fifth grade and it fucked me up. Yeah. So, I mean, kind of like that, except she didn't hear them calling, but they could have all been in the same jungle at the same time. But, Em, they were looking for her and she had a mirror set up so the helicopters

could see her and they couldn't find i mean that goes to show you that a civilian can be smarter than a whole team of trained people like if she literally left all that stuff for them to find her and they still couldn't i mean it's a massive jungle it's so frustrating it's like it's like who do you blame i know i gotta blame someone you can't well actually the last line of the article i read said there's really like as much as we try there's no one to blame except the jungle and i'm like the jungle is its own beast anyway so that's that's that um i know that that somehow i think just reading them and if you go through all the photos and i went I went through all of them.

Yeah, that's probably what fucked you up the most is that you actually saw pictures of this. Because you go through all 90 photos. The first ones are adorable. It's the two of them hiking, and they're super cute. Like super basic? No, just like young girls from Europe who are trying to be volunteers in a foreign country. Okay, let me see. No, don't show me.

Now it's gonna be real for me. I already see it. I don't wanna look. I don't wanna look. Oh, they're so cute. I know. They're adorable. And so then there's... Shit. I'm not looking anymore. But see, that's what I mean. I don't wanna have to feel. Like, look. Stop. Why are you showing me? Because I... I get it. I get it. I get it. It's been gotten.

It's so sad. Yeah, it's sad. I wasn't meant to show me this shit. It just goes to show you, no matter how smart you are, when it's your time. Look at this. I'm in the woods. Like, what the fuck? Anyway, what a great way to end this.

Hey, shut up. Okay, if you want me to tell a really lame not scary story okay here we are life is sad and i'm gonna tell geo's horoscope geo is a scorpio yeah the only one i deal with yeah m does not like scorpios i i have such a i have such a thing i don't have a problem with scorpios but m does except for geo except for geo well true fact when i first i did not know he was a scorpio and did i or didn't i call him i called it out i was like wow he's such a scorpio and you're like yeah actually he is a scorpio m goes oh god he's such a scorpio and i was like wow he's such a scorpio and you're like yeah actually he is a scorpio m goes oh god he's such a scorpio and i was like how do you know his birthday and she goes he's not actually a

scorpio is he and i was like yes he was so acting like a scorpio it was not weird for me to have guessed that okay ready yes geo here's your scorpio for today. Your Scorpio. Your horoscorpio. God help me. Okay. Go weed the garden, Scorpio. If you don't have a garden, you don't, Gio. Start one. Please don't. It's important for you to get into the earth today,

so roll up your sleeves and get your hands, paws, dirty. Feeling a connection with the ground is an important step in manifesting your dreams. Aww. Buy some seeds, fertilizer,

and a watering can. You say it so, this is such a different way of telling a story than what you're usually doing. This is a great day to create a nurturing environment in which a seed can grow literally if geo could live in fucking mulch and dirt that's all he would do he eats mulch

we walk past rocks we we walk past this um this front yard where they like put mulch in their garden and he just walked by and eats mouthfuls of mulch hear that grab life by the horns geo go weed a garden and put your paws in the dirt well good his metaphorical garden roll up your dreams what are his dreams for us to shut up probably like for mom to stop drinking probably no he likes when i drink because i just give him all the treats he wants. Probably for this podcast to stop. Probably for dead squirrels. There's a lot of things he likes. He likes me.

Sure. A room of a hundred of me. Right. Yes. I know what he'd want. I know. That will probably be next week's horoscope. Anyway.

Thanks, guys, for sticking with us. knuckling that those stories with us struggle yeah so much struggle yeah but thank you guys we appreciate it and um if you want to check us out we're on facebook and instagram and twitter at wwd. Email us at andthat'swhywedrink at gmail.com. Our website is andthat'swhywedrink.com. And please go look up Songfinch. Yes. I promise you, you won't regret this.

It's so good. So good. So fun. As soon as we stop recording, we're probably going to go listen to it again. To be honest. Ten times. It's brilliant. Anyway, the promo code is why we drink tomorrow is our listeners episode so lucky y'all get two episodes in one weekend unless you hate us lucky me gets to edit them thanks to m for all the fucking cool merch that's coming yes it is coming it's so cool i can't even get over every time i come to christine's i seem to be bringing her a different merch item and i yell a different merch idea we

recently came out with uh some poster ideas oh you're gonna die you're gonna die at least christine will i will it doesn't matter what we've we've heard your requests geo will be involved in some of the merch items if you would like to donate, please go to our Patreon and that's why we drink. And that will give you some of the merch. The more you donate, the more fun you get. One last thing. You have until tomorrow to enter

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Thank you for supporting us. Thank you for spreading our name. We officially have like seven people in South Dakota listening to us. Oh shit. Are you serious? Yeah. And I'm currently a little pissed at North Dakota because somehow South Dakota is now beating them. Oh, snap.

You turned it around. They got some catching up to do. I know. All right, guys. Thank you so much. We love you all. And we can't wait to share our next episode with you. And that's why we drink.

Bye-bye.